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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-03-12TOWN OF GROTON — MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING TUESDAY, MARCH 13, 2019 AT 7:30 PM THE TOWN HALL, 101 CONGER BOULEVARD Town Officers Present: Donald F. Scheffler, Supervisor Richard Gamel, Councilperson Crystal Young, Councilperson Brian Klumpp, Councilperson Michael Perkins, Highway Supt. April L. Scheffler, Town Clerk Charles Rankin, Bookkeeper Francis Casullo, Attorney Town Officers Absent: Sheldon C. Clark, Councilperson W. Rick Fritz, Code Official A. D. Dawson, Town Justice John Norman, Town Justice Also Present: Doug Seymour Calvin Carr Rachel Clar Adam McKenna David Norte Glenn Morey Kristopher Buchan John Benson MOVED by Councilperson Young, seconded by Councilperson Gamel, to approve the minutes of the February 12, 2019 meeting as presented. Ayes - Young, Gamel, Scheffler Abstain - Klumpp MOVED by Councilperson Young, seconded by Councilperson Gamel, to approve the minutes of the February 21, 2019 special meeting as presented. Ayes - Young, Gamel, Scheffler Abstain - Klumpp WHEREAS, vouchers for Abstract #3, numbered 78 - 125 were reviewed and audited by the Town Board, be it RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves said vouchers for the accounts and in the total amounts as follows: Code Fund Totals A GENERAL FUND 24.461.00 B GENERAL FUND PART TOWN 51126 3 .64 DA HIGHWAY FUND 46,20 7.17 DB HIGHWAY FUND PART TMN- N 189.-)� SL2- PERU`°ILLS LIGHTING DISTRICT 160.81 SLI- MCLEAN LIGHTING DISTRICT 274.76 Total: 761556.93 Ayes - Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Monthly Reports: Charles Rankin, Bookkeeper - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review. He has filed the annual report with the State Comptroller and the Town Clerk as provided by law. The bids are out on the new municipal building for the Village of Groton and are due April 1 St. If everything goes right they may be breaking ground by June or July and finish about this time next year. Town Board Minutes Page 2 March 12, 2019 W. Rick Fritz, Code/Fire Enforcement Officer - Was not present but had submitted monthly reports for the Board's review. Robin Cargian, Deputy Town Clerk - Presented Mr. Fritz's recommendations for Floodplain Development. He would like the application for Floodplain Development to go along with the Building Permit Application and a fee to be equal to the fee we have established for commercial buildings. The applicant will also need to be made aware that they would have to pay for the Town to hire an engineer. RESOLUTION #19-031 - SET FEE FOR FLOODPLAIN DEVELOPMENT MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby sets the fee for residential and/or commercial development within a floodplain at $ .60 per square foot for new construction; $60.00 plus $3.00 per $1,000.00 of cost for alternations or renovations; applicant shall pay all engineering fees incurred by the Town of Groton for review of the application. Ayes - Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Michael Perkins, Highway Superintendent - We got our wrecked truck back. When it gets a little nicer we're going to get into the motor and see if it's feasible to fix it or get another one. We have six people qualified for the Dig New York State program that we have to do now. I will be taking the course at some point. We are going to do a new inventory of everything so we know what we have and don't have, and bring you up to speed. Supervisor Scheffler - I'd like to say that the guys have been doing a great job under some pretty bad conditions. A lot of things have been happening and everybody has been working well together and we appreciate it. Mr. Perkins - Thank you, and Ben's been doing a great job. April L. Scheffler, RMC, Town Clerk/Tax Collector - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review. It's been a very slow month without much money taken in. There were no building permits, mostly dog licenses. However, we've been quite busy otherwise, doing a lot of research and other things. Francis Casullo, Attorney for the Town - Had nothing to report. John J. Norman and A. D. Dawson, Town Justices - Were not present. Councilperson Crystal Young as Representative to Joint Youth Program - The Tompkins County Recreation Partnership has decided on their members for the year. The Joint Recreation Committee met last week. The trail committee is still going strong. The summer concerts are all set. Cabin Fever was a success with over 200 people for the roller skating party. We audited the books for the sports teams and it all looked good. I was not able to attend the Youth Commission meeting but we have a new director. I'll give you more information on that next month. Glenn Morey, County Legislator - Had nothing to report Ben Nelson, Groton Fire Chief - We've had 161 ambulance calls to date this year. That's getting a little excessive and we're looking at certain places stretching our resources, going there a lot more than we should. We are going to be meeting with them very soon and see if we can figure out what's going on there. There have been 36 fire calls, which is standard. Our daytime driver is out for surgery so we've Town Board Minutes Page 3 March 12, 2019 been coordinating with whoever we can get to make sure we get out the door to the calls. We're working on our spring events and going from there. Doug Seymour, McLean Fire District - We have been working with the Triad Foundation looking for a grant for portable radios. The grant is worth about $12,000.00. They can't issue it to us because we don't have a 5016 form. We are presently working on that, but the lady that we talked to did a little research and said that she could issue the grant to the Town of Groton being that you're affiliated with us, collect our taxes and pay them to us. They could give you the grant and then you would reimburse us for the radios. So, what she's asking is for the Supervisor to give us a letter saying that you would accept the grant on the McLean Fire Department's behalf and then reimburse us, and then most likely we would get the grant. Supervisor Scheffler asked Attorney Casullo for his opinion and he said he would look into how exactly to word the letter and make sure that everything is done correctly. RESOLUTION #19-032 - APPROVE ASSISTING MCLEAN FIRE DISTRICT IN GRANT APPLICATION MOVED by Councilperson Gamel, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves assisting the McLean Fire District in its grant application to the Triad Foundation for portable radios and that the Town Board hereby instructs the Town Attorney to do what is legal and necessary to accomplish the grant application process. Ayes - Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Jay Franklin, Tompkins County Assessment - Thanks for having me out. I'm always willing to come out. As I always say, even though the County puts the money in my pocket, we're really Town assessors, so feel free to use me. I'm here to talk about 487 of the Real Property Tax Law, probably one of the worst written sections of the law that I've seen, at least in Real Property. I think it's a good attempt at doing what they wanted to do, but in practice it just doesn't work. Section 487 provides for an exemption for certain wind, farm waste energy, solar, and they keep adding more and more things every legislative session. Probably 3 or 4 odd alternative energy generators are added to this section each year. So, the default for this is that a municipality is in the exemption unless they decide to opt out of it. With Real Property Tax Law, local municipalities can only provide an exemption for what the State allows you to provide for. You couldn't provide an exemption for people with triplets because the law doesn't allow that. But if the State Legislature would allow that, you could go ahead and grant that exemption. So, the way this section is written is that you are in it unless you do something to affirmatively opt out of it. If you're in the exemption, there is a provision that says that you may require a PILOT payment from somebody putting solar panels on their house or erecting a commercial solar array, except there is no mechanism that forces the PILOT to occur. If you're in the exemption, a solar developer could come to you with a notice of intent and I think you have 30 days to respond saying that you will require a PILOT payment. But in order to have a PILOT you have to have two sides agreeing to what that figure is. So, as you're negotiating with a solar company, if you don't come to that agreement and the solar company executes their interconnectivity agreement with the grid, they're automatically eligible for the exemption and they no longer have to negotiate with you. You could try not issuing a building permit, but the lawyers that I've talked to, the issuing of a building permit is a ministerial act. As long as they meet the requirements, even if they owe the Town a million dollars in back taxes, you couldn't stop that building permit from happening. So, that's kind of the nuance of this law, that if you want to provide an exemption, but you also want to require a PILOT from some of the larger installations, you have no force behind that action. So, to protect yourself, you almost have to opt out of this exemption in order to require a PILOT. Town Board Minutes Page 4 March 12, 2019 Councilperson Gamel - So, we can opt out, which we've done, and still have a PILOT? Mr. Franklin - You cannot, as a Town Board, negotiate that. Councilperson Gamel - The IDA is the only one who can do that? Mr. Franklin - Correct. Councilperson Gamel - The State law? Mr. Franklin - Correct. You could probably negotiate a Host Community Agreement. You could negotiate something along that line but it wouldn't be a PILOT or part of the taxes. One nice thing is that our IDA in Tompkins County has been on the forefront. They realize just how much solar is growing in Tompkins. The last I looked, we are the second biggest county behind Orange in the number of solar installations. One thing nice about our IDA is that they can offer 20 -year PILOT. If you were in the 487 exemption, you can only offer a 15 -year PILOT and most solar companies want that surety of year 16 - 20 of what their tax payments are going to be. And something worth mentioning: no solar array would get built if it had to pay full taxes. The financials for these systems, any system that costs 4 -million dollars to build and is worth maybe 2 -million after they build it, just goes to show you how tight their financials are. So, to come up with a tax payment for full payment, they're not going. They're not looking to put these panels in a certain school district or a certain town, they're looking at putting it in next to transmission lines that are easily upgradable; they're looking to put it in a certain zone. As to which school district or which town, if they have to pay full taxes here, they're going to go over here in order to get that PILOT payment and have the financials work for that system. Attorney Casullo - They have opted out, now the Tompkins County IDA has to negotiate the PILOT, and that's State law you are saying? Mr. Franklin - Correct. I know of no mechanism that would allow a Town to negotiate a PILOT. I could be wrong. It could happen but all of the PILOTs that we have here in Tompkins have been negotiated by the Tompkins County IDA, at least for the exemptions under 412-a of the Real Property Tax Law. I have heard of Host Community Agreements to provide some sort of benefit to the town. Councilperson Klumpp - What are some examples of benefits that would fall under that category, which some other municipalities have been able to do? Mr. Franklin - Most have been a payment for the use of the roads, for construction. Most of those that I have seen have been for wind farms. I don't think a solar farm construction would be too disruptive. They're pretty easy to install and are not the big turbines coming down the road. I have heard that there was, I think the school district of Candor received a Host Community Agreement for a solar array that went down there, but that's kind of hear -say. Councilperson Klumpp - We would lose all site plan control over it as well? Mr. Franklin - No, you can still control what can actually get built. The IDA would step in and take a leasehold interest in the property. So, whoever owns the property would lease it to the IDA. The IDA would then lease it to the solar which would then be eligible for that exemption because the IDA has an interest in that property. The oddity of this is that you are either fully in or fully out. It would be nice to say we're going to be in the exemption for solar panels on somebody's house but we're going to be out for an industrial off-site solar or wind farm, but the State law doesn't allow you to make that distinction. There has been some proposals, I talked to Senator O'Mara's office who is looking at making that an option in the law, but that was probably a month or two ago and I haven't talked to them since. At least right now we haven't seen solar panels be a positive to value on a residential house. It's almost counterintuitive with all of the incentives that are out there. If there are two identical houses, they are going to buy the house that doesn't have solar panels, so they can put solar panels on and take advantage of all those credits. That could change in a blink of an eye as soon as those tax credits go away, but as of right now it's not penalizing anyone. Supervisor Scheffler - So their payment in lieu of taxes is based on income and expenses instead of value. Who monitors that over the years? Town Board Minutes Page S March 12, 2019 Mr. Franklin - The Tompkins County IDA reviews all of the proposals that would come to them for tax abatement. They would then look at those financials, see what kind of abatement they can deliver in order to have that project actually be constructed. So, they're looking at that up front and I believe there is a reporting mechanism in there to make sure that something doesn't go askew. Supervisor Scheffler - I read that the PILOT can only go up 2% a year. Mr. Franklin - That's kind of the uniform solar policy that they adopted probably 3 or 4 years ago. I think it's between $4,200 and $4,800 per megawatts is what their PILOT payment would be, however they have deviated from that and gone all the way up to $8,000 for a couple in Enfield and Newfield. They do have their uniform policy, however they do look at the financials of each individual project and see what that can support. Being in the NYSEG zone, solar installations can support the lowest amount of PILOT payments because our electricity here is so cheap in this zone as compared to Con Ed or something downstate. Supervisor Scheffler - I guess my question is, once the PILOT is set and it can only go up 2% a year, and in 10 years from now suppose the business is really booming and their making bazillions of dollars then we're on the losing end. Mr. Franklin - Yeah. I'd have to talk to the IDA to see if they..... Councilperson Gamel - So, they don't monitor this every year and go back and.....? Mr. Franklin - In general, tax abatements are based on the value that my office produces and then they're exempted off. So, you're fully exempt the first year, 90% the next, 80% the next, and as the income to the property grows, so does our value and their abatement gets less. Each year these companies have to report to the IDA what their job creations were, how they're retaining jobs, what they put into their abatement application, to make sure that they're meeting those goals. With solar, I honestly don't know. I'd have to talk to Heather McDaniels from the IDA to see if they are monitoring these things as they go forward. Councilperson Klumpp - The IDA, do they have a formula that they use or do they negotiate? Mr. Franklin - Well, they have their uniform policy between $4,200 and $4,800 per megawatt and that's shared between all taxing jurisdictions based upon your share of the tax rate. We had a very recent $8,000 per megawatt project that went on Podunk Road in the Town of Enfield and then we had another two in Newfield that I think were $4,200. So, they have their uniform policy but they do deviate from it. Me, looking at it from the outside, I would think they would have to look at the financial for that individual project and make sure that they get what is appropriate to compensate the taxing jurisdictions but also still have the project go forward. Councilperson Klumpp - Do they interact at all with the town boards when they are negotiating? Mr. Franklin - I don't know. I don't think it's required because they have the uniform solar policy. They're not deviating from their standard policy so they don't need town, school and county approval as well. If were to deviate from that, then they would need it. But if you have any concerns, I would definitely suggest that you relay them to Heather at the IDA and the IDA members as well. Attorney Casullo - I think that's one of the issues too, probably there are some questions that I might call Heather at the IDA and make sure that if you ever want to do a PILOT do you automatically have to let the IDA negotiate it for you. If that's the case, how much input, if any, does the Town have on the negotiations or is it just based on the policy. So, I'll probably put a phone call into her just to get some of those questions that I have answered. Councilperson Gamel - So the State put the county seat in charge then, in every county in New York State. You say the IDA in Tompkins County is the only one who can do this and there's a law for that, then the State has said...... . Mr. Franklin - Well there are some municipal IDAs. The Village of Groton has an IDA. It doesn't seem to be active, but there is an ownership, and I honestly don't know a lot about that. The Town of Dryden used to have and IDA. That was just disbanded maybe 4 or 5 years ago when Governor Cuomo was trying to get rid of inactive legislative bodies. So, it's not just a county function at the state level. It's a Town Board Minutes Page 6 March 12, 2019 little more complex. The other thing is that they keep adding sections to this law, so if you opted out, you almost have to opt out every year. The State has taken the position that every time they add something new, so micro -cell technology to it, you have to opt again. I don't believe in that. To me if the Town says we are opting out of 487, whatever the State does to it, you are still opted out of it. It's odd that they keep adding. Rachel Clar, Abundant Solar - I just wanted to reach out in person, be here to answer your questions. I've certainly spoken with Heather and repeatedly spoken with Jay over the phone. Solar is an evolving industry and we are called the "solar -coaster". All the trends, what's the case today is not the case tomorrow, and so on. I guess first and foremost that I wanted to tell you is we're looking at where to site solar arrays. We're looking for a town that's solar friendly, that's adopted a solar code. There's a whole variety of factors that go into locating where you want to go forward, but one of those early questions is whether they've adopted a solar law. So, to your credit, your forward thinking, you adopted this, to my understanding, you took the time to develop that law without a particular solar project in front of you. And here we are. So, hopefully we'll pass the tax conversation and move into permitting and roll up our sleeves and work through all those first time questions on both sides. It's our pleasure. A lot of the towns where we're doing business, we're the first solar farms to go, which is our pleasure and privilege. So, we are just really grateful that Groton's open for business. We met with you two months ago and just looking forward to moving it forward. From a tax perspective, obviously you opted out just recently, after we had met with the Town. So, we were concerned about that and kind of hit pause on the project. We are a for-profit business and the project needs to pencil. But as Jay shared, this is the utility industry, not Silicon Valley. The margins are very tight and we need to have tax certainty, so it's very attractive to us to do business in counties and towns where there is tax certainty. It is a changing landscape, opting in, opting out, PILOT, no PILOT, it's a mess. I email our attorney as we expand into different regions, about 8 different counties, and he gave me completely different answers. It's a business. That said, the projects economics are pretty fixed once you close, so the idea that a deal becomes crazy lucrative, it doesn't work that way, the numbers are flat. The customers, ideally would be the residents of Groton, and surrounding areas, when they sign up with our subscriber partner, they sign up to buy solar power from Abundant instead of getting their power from NYSEG. Well it's still on the transmission lines that NYSEG controls but generated by them, a solar array right here locally. And they're saving approximately 10% on their electric bill. That's base on how on, they're committing to a share of the farm's output and how much they are committing to is calculated to correlate with 10% savings. And that's New York State, the (?) law with NYSERDA. Councilperson Gamel - And that can't change? Ms. Clar - Around 10% off your electric is what the customer gets. I'm not talking about taxes right now. Councilperson Gamel - I know. One of my original questions was, you're on the business end of it, we're live here, this is our Town, and we would like as much advantage for the residents of Groton as possible for something like this. So, that was one of my questions was, if we did a PILOT is that something that could be worked in. Very much like the Village had a 99 -year deal with the substation that we have here, so the Village of Groton has extremely cheap electric compared to the Town of Groton. So, if it's here why wouldn't it help the residents more than somebody down -state? Ms. Clar - Yeah, so the only people who receive power are within NYSEG's footprint, so down -state is not in the equation at all. In terms as it's within NYSEG's footprint, our preference is that those customers are as local as possible. The idea that they would get more than 10%, it's two different factors of the project you're talking about: one being the customer and Abundant's relationship and that's 10%. The idea that the customer as a citizen of Groton gets more benefit because Groton is receiving more, having this project go forward, absolutely, and that's what I wanted to talk about tonight. But the idea, it's not like we can offer Groton residents 15% if that's what you meant. Councilperson Gamel - That's what I meant. Ms. Clar - Yeah, it's a function of different legal parameters that we're under. Town Board Minutes Page 7 March 12, 2019 Councilperson Klumpp - How do you determine who is a customer and who isn't? If they sign up for it do you give preference to people who are closer to the project? Ms. Clar - It's certainly our preference to sign up as many customers as possible that are close to the project. They have to be in NYSEG's territory. Our preference is that they are as local as possible and our marketing efforts are generated toward that. Councilperson Klumpp - But it's first come, first serve as long as they're in the NYSEG footprint, which is a pretty big footprint. Ms. Clar - Theoretically, yes, we have a lot of projects in pre -development in the NYSEG territory so practically speaking we'd be looking for people as close as possible. But, yes we're sourcing NYSEG customers from multiple projects in NYSEG territory and theoretically the Groton customer could have their power sourced somewhere far away and someone far away could have it sourced here. It's not our preference that it works that way but it can. Supervisor Scheffler - Is there a limit to your number of customers? Ms. Clar - For each array? Absolutely, it's limited by the farm's output. Each customer is committing, so they will say like, I use 2,000 kwh at my house every year, I'm going to commit to that much. We cap out at a certain amount, so typically it's around 175 households per megawatt. Here it's a five megawatt ac project, so that would translate to 900ish households. Councilperson Klumpp - How much of the 40 -acre parcel will it take up? Ms. Clar - Five megawatt ac is 25 - 30 acres. We had our permitting applications two-thirds done, so we'll submit a full package as soon as we resolve what the tax situation is. And you'll have all that information and I'll be back in front of you to work out those details. Councilperson Klumpp - One of my concerns is what's the life expectancy of the array? Ms. Clar - They tend to out -live their life expectancy. By the end of their 20 - 25 warranty period on the equipment, they're still at 80 - 85% output. Some larger scale solar arrays are just now getting towards the end of their original term. They're just going longer, continuing to put out solar and the equipment is not necessarily needing to get replaced or upgraded. It's long lasting. Councilperson Klumpp - That's good. There will be an end date at some point, and what's the plan when that happens. Ms. Clar - The plan is that we decommission the project. Everything gets removed, gets recycled as much as possible and/or gets upgraded and continues producing. It's just impossible to predict what's happening next year. Councilperson Gamel - Do you have a bond for each array that you put up for that very thing? Ms. Clar - We've done it in a variety of ways depending on a town's requirements. There's pros and cons, different ways to structure. We can do a bond. There's multiple ways that we could structure. Councilperson Young - According our plan, we require a surety bond and we also require a decommissioning plan. Ms. Clar - So, we submit that. Supervisor Scheffler - What happens if you sign up your 900 households and you don't get the power that you expect or they degrade and no one un -signs? Nobody falls out and you're down to 85% what happens to those 15%? Ms. Clar - Yeah, so the customer is committing.....that's a great question; no one has ever asked me that question. First of all the customer is making a one year commitment. The customer is not committing for the whole array. So, customers can come and go. They're not beholden to us; we're not wedded together. They're committing ...... I don't know, that's a really good question. I'll get back to you tomorrow; I'll write you a letter tomorrow. Town Board Minutes Page 8 March 12, 2019 Councilperson Gamel - Ten or fifteen years down the road, in theory, if all 900 people were still signed up with you, you would have to start omitting some of those costumers..... Ms. Clar - Yeah, but I think you're presuming degradation of the panels much faster than how it's really happening. Let me respond in a letter. Yeah, it's really interesting. Supervisor Scheffler - If you have a year or two like this fall. The last nine months we've had about two days of sunshine. Ms. Clar - Well, in terms of the weather patterns, let me say this: the project economics are based, and the taxes are based, on the system output, and the system output, including the weather patterns is studied to a science. So, the project does not presume full sunshine 365 days a year and the business is booming in western New York. Solar business is booming in western New York where the Groton climate is the same as the Rochester climate, more or less. So, to say that the weather is going to screw up the output, and therefore the economics, that piece is not the case. The question about how quickly they degrade, so what happens when your 15 or 20 in terms of customers is a very interesting question and again, I'll respond tomorrow on it. Councilperson Klumpp - Could you briefly explain the size of your company and how many arrays you have in the State, or the northeast? Ms. Clar - Absolutely. So, Abundant Solar Energy, our parent company, is Ontario, Canada's largest solar provider. They have won some massive projects with the Province of Ontario. Abundant is also expanding really rapidly in western New York. I am based in Rochester and work out of our Rochester office. Abundant has won a massive RFP with the Central New York Planning Board, so five counties there. This is part of the presentation we talked about. Can I send you a copy? I can include that again, attached to a letter tomorrow. There we have 33 projects in the development stages in 24 different municipalities, spanning 5 counties. So, that's our Central New York portfolio in the greater Rochester area; not just Monroe County but some of the surrounding counties. We have 10 megawatts that just recently turned on. Outside of the Central New York portfolio, and outside of the existing large projects in Rochester, we have a big number in pre -development as well, in other parts of western New York. Councilperson Klumpp - When was your company formed? Ms. Clar - So, Abundant affiliates, like the principals, have been in the business for decades. Abundant Solar Energy itself, the parent company was formed, I want to say six years ago. Abundant Solar Power, the New York company, I don't know, a year or two, pretty new. But again, the principals have been doing this for years. Supervisor Scheffler - Can you also email us references from these towns and counties in western New York? Ms. Clar - Absolutely. They're in Wayne County, Macedon, Williamson. I'll send you all this. They're in East Bloomfield, Ontario County and in Ogden in Monroe County. Please let me know your questions. This happens all the time. Supervisor Scheffler - We're new at it. We're not against solar or any other business whatsoever, but it's new to us and we have to be careful and look out for our Town. Ms. Clar - Understood. I commend your volunteerism and I relate to it as well. I'm involved in my own town. From a tax perspective, I did talk on the phone with Jay and with Heather, and Heather and I did go back and forth about the PILOT so I did want to talk a little bit more about taxes. And I wanted to talk about timing. So, in terms of the County PILOT, the Town has opted out, and so at this moment the Town is not going to be doing its own PILOT, however, the County, like Jay said, solar is booming in Tompkins County, and my understanding before I got into the industry is they had a different tax arrangement that the numbers didn't pencil in Tompkins County and there was a standstill with business. Then they redid their PILOT and business flooded in. So, I'm only saying that again because it is very number sensitive and that Tompkins County coming up with their range of how they tax solar, which is $4,200 to $4,800 per megawatt ac, and I could send in an email tomorrow a copy of Tompkins County's PILOT. (Board Members responded that they already had it.) NYSERDA recommends that projects can Town Board Minutes Page 9 March 12, 2019 afford about $5,000 per megawatt ac. When we look at the project itself, not the recommendations to the Town, but to the entire project it's totaling $5,000. As you saw in the letter, I ran the numbers. Your fire district would receive almost $4,500 a year in taxes if we are able to construct a 5 megawatt project, which would make all the residents of Groton safer. The Town itself, I just want to make sure it's really clear, the County PILOT includes payment to the Town and the payment to the Town is 3 1/2 times what that site is currently bringing in for the Town. So, it's not the County PILOT means all the money goes and stays in Tompkins County; it trickles down. And it trickles down to every taxing jurisdiction at 3 1/2 times except for the fire district because it's a carve -out on how Tompkins County drafted it. Again, from the point of view of the residents of Groton, it's making your fire department more able to buy radios and whatever else it needs. So, it ultimately trickles down as a benefit to the residents of Groton. The last piece I wanted to say is the timing piece. The project is, there's two different train tracks. There's permitting and there's interconnection. Really, obviously taxes is maybe a third train track you could say. But the trains are moving at different speeds on each track, but the trains are speaking to each other and one can't get super far ahead without movement of the other. So, you go forward with utility and make good progress with NYSEG, but you don't have any permitting, then permitting goes forward and so on. From our point of view we need to keep an eye on that just to make sure the project moves all the way towards closing and construction and so on. My point is that we don't have endless time, with the utility and with the seller. We have a contract. We have dates that are expiring. So, I want to answer all your questions as soon as possible. If you want a conference with Heather, I will call her in the morning and see if we can get a conference call set up ASAP. I know she would make herself available. She made it very, very clear to me that she wants to be a resource to all of you. New York State, in advising the $5,000 per megawatts and Tompkins County coming up with their number, we're not going to whimsically ..... after tons of study. If you want to kind of re -open the file, we have a timing issue that we're just really concerned about. I don't want to pressure you to do anything for your town that you're not comfortable with, but I do want to make it clear that for our project, we have a fork in the road, we need to make sure the numbers pencil, and we need to make sure it moves on time. I'm saying that as part of the reality of our business. Supervisor Scheffler - To speak to that too, we need a completed application so that we have something concrete in front of us before we can make a lot of decisions. We do need an application and we don't have that. Ms. Clar - Yeah, so, it's a bit of a catch 22. We're very reluctant to start the permitting process without having and understanding of taxes. Tompkins County having that agreement and making it clear what they would pay to all the jurisdictions, which I put in the letter, including to the Town, gives us certainty. If you say yes, you'll sign a support letter to the County IDA, I call my engineer tomorrow and we finish the permit on file. We have already spent a significant amount of money with our engineer when we thought that the Tompkins County PILOT was the case. So, when it got questioned, we had to hit pause. Supervisor Scheffler - Are you expanding all over New York or just certain areas? It seems like it jumped from Rochester to here. Ms. Clar - Not to us. We're all over the western New York region. At this point we're not deeply downstate. That may change in a year or two to come. Abundant experienced massive growth in Ontario. The principals are well versed in how to scale very quickly and have a lot of interest in western New York. It's a very right market. Councilperson Young - I'm hearing Jay say and what you're saying that it didn't really matter that we opted in or out because the County would actually be in charge of the PILOT anyway; we wouldn't have had any say in the PILOT. Did I hear that right? Jay Franklin - The IDA has provided abatement whether you're in or out of the exemption. Tompkins County is still in the exemption, but we still benefit from the IDA. Whether you're in or out, if you are in the exemption, then the possiblitiy exists that this could be fully exempt if that interconnectivity agreement is executed before you have a PILOT agreement with the solar company. To force a PILOT, you have to be out of the exemption because the alternative is to pay full taxes and they're not going to pay full taxes. Town Board Minutes Page 10 March 12, 2019 Clerk Scheffler pointed out that there was a mistake in the PILOT amounts that Ms. Clar had sent to the Board. The library tax had been calculated wrong and was higher than it should be. Ms. Clar said that once corrected it would increase the amounts on the other lines. She said that those figures were also based on presuming that they are able to work out with NYSEG that they can build a 5 megawatt system. The Board should understand that the PILOT would be based on a certain amount per megawatt. The size could change for many reasons and a smaller system will result in a smaller PILOT. Ms. Clar - The IDA negotiating a PILOT is a big advantage. While it may seem like ceding control to a higher authority, they are not going forward unless you issue a support letter. Them having done the research and coming up with this PILOT is what's encouraging industry to flock to Tompkins County. So, it's a big asset. Councilperson Gamel - You ever put something up for sale and it goes to the first person that shows up? That always scares me. If people, all of the sudden because they changed it, companies flock to it? I question whether or not they did it right. Ms. Clar - I understand what you're saying. You could argue the other way, if they waited, and waited to study it to death, or if they set it real high .... you know a bird in the hand is better than two in a bush. A lot of business is lucrative to the Town. It is also a real j ob generator for the construction of the array. Councilperson Gamel - The Town of Groton? That might help a construction company for Rochester, or Canada, or wherever. Ms. Clar - In terms of who we hire to actually be building. We work as a GC but we hire locally. So, we're not going to be bringing in workers from Rochester, we're going to look for workers here as much as possible. Councilperson Gamel - You're not going to find a super, large construction company here in the Town of Groton, that's what I'm saying. Ms. Clar - We're going to be looking for trades as close as possible. We don't want them driving for long distances, that's not practical for a lot of reasons. We definitely are not bringing anyone from Canada. Councilperson Gamel - Many other industries do that and they travel around. One of my concerns is, when you have business, and you definitely want business to come to your town, but this isn't really a job generating business. Ms. Clar - I understand. It's construction jobs and then after that it's very minimal, operations and maintenance. It provides other advantages. You'll be fire safer, with the fire district having a cash inflow. You'll have the advantage that all of the taxing jurisdictions will be paid 31/2 times a much in taxes so there's added revenue there too. And from an energy security standpoint, it's just safer for everyone that their energy is generated as locally as possible. Councilperson Young - I'm not sure, because this is kind of a new industry; I know one of the things that we've been discussing is the end of life and what happens then. From what we're reading, they are not easily able to be recycled. You did mention something about upgrading equipment, is that something that you've seen happen already? Are there solar arrays that have been in the process long enough where it would have to have upgraded equipment and how feasible is that as opposed to just decommissioning. Ms. Clar - In terms of decommissioning itself, we certainly will comply with the Town's requirements. In terms of the cost/benefit analysis that happens in terms of decommissioning versus upgrading equipment, I would prefer to respond to it in a letter because I want to respond to you completely and I want to give you a more thorough explanation than I'd be able to right now. Our intention, we're an environmental company, our intention is to recycle as much as possible. The steel is a substantial portion of the project cost and that's totally recyclable. And also the equipment itself is forever evolving, the panels and what -not, different technologies come into play. So there's definitely a push in the industry in general to create products that are greener and greener. Town Board Minutes Page 11 March 12, 2019 Supervisor Scheffler - You're long term plans, what's your plan for being around in 20 years? I only ask this because I have three neighbors with roof -top solar and the companies that put them in aren't there anymore, two years later. It's a concern that has been brought up. Ms. Clar - We handle long term operations and maintenance on all our projects, so we will be here for the long term. I just want to recap and make sure what I am responding to tomorrow: 1) What happens if the panels degrade during the array, and what happens from the customer standpoint. 2) The degradation of the solar panels and the cost benefit of upgrading. 3) References. There was conversation about meeting with Heather at the IDA and Ms. Clar offered to facilitate that but the Board and Attorney said that they would handle it. Ms. Clar - I would hope that you are able to have a conversation and not wait for your next Town Board meeting, just so that we can continue to make forward progress. Supervisor Scheffler - That is a problem because any official decisions that we make have to be made in a Board meeting. Ms. Clar - Understood. Well, we're hoping that as soon as possible that the Town Board is willing to sign a support letter to Heather, the IDA, and we can move forward with regimen they have already come up with and we file for permitting. That's our goal. Thank you for your time. I'm totally available if you come up with more questions. Attorney Casullo - Let's do this, let me reach out to Heather, get some information, ask her some questions, and then I'll get hold of you. If you want to call Heather, or the Board does, fine. Let's just do this one step at a time so we all understand, we're on the same page regarding this project and who has the authority. Let's face it, we saw the page and a half policy and it doesn't say much, but let's see how it is, talk with Heather, and get some answers. You can always have a special meeting too. But we've been down this road before. Remember a couple years ago with fracking. We just want to make sure that we're dotting all the is and crossing all the t's, and make sure we're doing this correctly. I can certainly understand what Rachel is saying, that she doesn't want to wait until May or June. If we are going to do a letter of support lets make sure that we're not skipping a step or something like that. We've never done this before, let's make sure we do it right. RESOLUTION #19-033 - BOOKKEEPER TO ATTEND CONFERENCE MOVED by Councilperson Gamel, second by Councilperson Young RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the payment of expenses for the Bookkeeper to attend the PERMA Conference in Bolton Landing, NY, May 23-24, 2019. Ayes - Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Privilege of the Floor: David Norte - Just want to bring up some concerns that I've had. I can't believe I have to bring them up, they're so strange. The Town of Dryden is, it sounds like they're trying to shoehorn in some policy with the Green New Deal. I got talking points off the Tompkins County website that they were having a discussion on it to maybe propose it on a county level. Distribution of our resources equitably. The little bit that I know about it, it sounds like the Town of Dryden, without public discussion, because I know people who went to the last Board meeting, Board Members said we're not going to discuss the merits of global warming, we're going to go ahead with a policy. I think the County's talking about it. I think it's something a lot of people pay attention to. It's so strange I think a lot of people chuckle about it. But it sounds like the Town of Dryden wants to propose what you can and can't heat your home with. It's a concern that I have and when you talk to people who believe something like this, they're not open to Town Board Minutes Page 12 March 12, 2019 discussion. Town of Dryden residents were flatly told that they're not going to have a discussion about the merits of the science, that it's settled. Right off the Tompkins County's website, they're talking about it. Councilperson Gamel - What is it? Solar power? Mr. Norte - Whatever, solar, wind. The State has a plan, I think Cuomo is a little more realistic with words in there, nuclear. Solar is nice, I think it will subsidize power, but the reality of the math is that it isn't going to work and most people who run a calculator know that it isn't going to work. If they go up here and take up some land, it's not on my property, and it works for the Town, fine. They're so heavily subsidizes though that as a business owner, I resent it. They talk big math but they're so heavily subsidized, the whole industry is fake. And to start doing this on a county level? That's the bedrock of the community and the State is where you get your reliable, dependable power from and to not care about the real math of it...... You know they had equal distribution of resources, that's Socialism. That's Socialism talk. Nobody's brave enough to say it that way, but that's what that Green New Deal is. My assistant Scout Master went to Dryden's Town Board and the way they were treated, I was flabbergasted. I think they were violating by-laws. They didn't even put it in a public announcement, a discussion period. They had already moved on to try to implement the thing. I'd like the Town Board to pay attention, it's coming. That's what's coming up. That's going to be their big agenda. I don't know if the Town can legally put a stop on, put a little wall around for something like that. It's hooie. And they don't even want to have a discussion on it. At least with the woman that stopped here tonight, she's at least willing to discuss and hash out some math with you. Not that, that's strong arm tactics to what they're trying to do. They've got Cornell, they had a meeting tonight at the Borg Warner Room down at the Library, with all the people who have way more say it seems like than we do. Cornell, Cornell, Cornell. So, I just want to put that out there and hopefully you guys put some feelers out because it's coming. Supervisor Scheffler - Well, we can't control what Dryden does, but we try to watch what happens in our town. But as you've seen tonight, there are things that they've overridden us on that we don't even see coming. Mr. Norte - Yeah, well we all know why they ran to Tompkins County all the way from Canada. I heard your questions. What kind of real negotiating tactics did Tompkins County have? They open the back door and run on in. And that's the same mentality with this stuff here. They believe the world environment is going to collapse in 12 years. That sounds stupid for me to even say that. But that's what they believe and I hope that you can wrap your brain around it, that is their mindset right now. They believe, the Green New Deal, they believe that 12 years is all we have. Supervisor Scheffler - Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Mr. Norte gave the Board something printed from the Tompkins County website. Supervisor Scheffler said that he had read it today. Other Board Members said that they had not read it but would do so the next day Announcements: ➢ Planning Board Meeting - March 21, 7:30 pm ➢ Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting - March 20, 7:00 pm ➢ Groton Olde Home Days - August 22 - 14 There being no further business, Councilperson Gamel moved to adjourn, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp, at 8:50 pm. Unanimous. April L. Scheffler, RMC Town Clerk