HomeMy WebLinkAbout1981-06-17 Groton Town Planning Board Meeting
Held in the Town Hall at
Groton , N . Y .
Wednesday - June 17 , 1981 8 : 00 p . m .
PRESENT : G . Totman - Chairman
L . Raymond '
J . MacNeil
N . Ostrander
C . Twigg
R . Gleason
J . Mestler - Recording Clerk
Mr . Totman called the meeting to order
at 8 : 30 p . m .
L . Raymond moved the minutes of the last
meeting be approved which was seconded by
J . MacNeil and motion carried .
G . Totman : To answer your questions about the subdivision on the Champlin
Rd . - since then , I have not heard what their finds were .
There ' s two things I want to do tonight . 1 . As soon as Cecil
gets here , I want to go back through proposed zoning ordinance
and bring to your attention the things the town attorny
brought up . And two , work on the map , so it will be fresh in
everyone ' s minds . It is not involved . We added another zone
and I brought extra maps .
N . Ostrander : Would state highways be like Rt . 38 ? This is all goofed up .
What is a town highway? What is the difference from a county
road?
G . Totman : The state highway is maintained by the state . A town high
way is maintained by the town . Sometimes the town plows and
puts salt down on a county road .
N . Ostrander : Then anything that is dotted has a county road number .
L , Raymond : Where is description of boundaries of zone?
G . Totman : That is our problem .
L . Raymond : But where is the old descriptions ?
G . Totman : In that book . If you can find it in there , you are better
than I am . I can ' t find it .
The map is made to scale so if you check the map then I suppose
you can tell . It tells you on the map how many feet there are
from the center of the road .
J . MacNeil : Do we have a copy of the map that we made with the new zones ?
Is it available to us ?
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` G . Totman : We did do that . Let me see what I can find in this book .
L . Raymond : This is all we have for definitions , right here .
G . Totman : Am I correct that the only two areas we.+ changed and added
new zones are the areas of McLean and Peruville? So all
we have to do is add those two .
J . MacNeil : I think we changed area intensity zones in the Groton i
Peruville zone .
L . Raymond : I don ' t recall this .
J . MacNeil : Because it is residential area now .
G . Totman : On the old map , the area of intensity is on both sides .
This map Mere I copied out of the new book . I did not
change this area right here .
L . Raymond : He has a M zone .
N . Ostrander : Medium zone between Lick St . and Old Salt Rd .
L . Raymond : Did we really change the boundary?
J . MacNeil : McLean boundaries are the same . But boundaries are different;
in Peruville .
L . Raymond : We really do not have to change boundaries , but change zoning
definitions of areas . . . . .
Vie do not have any new areas to designate .
G . Totman : In Peruville , they were talking about where the stores are - '
where there are already businesses .
J . MacNeil : Outside areas are the same , but they changed this particular
zone from medium .
L . Raymond : This is not an area that will be changed . If we changed the
whole thing to medium intensity , we have to be careful .
( R . Gleason and C . Twigg arrive to meeting )
G . Totman : What we are trying to do is - from the back of this book is
the old zoning map and one of the things we should have done
before and haven ' t yet completed is make the official map to'
go along with the new zoning ordinance . We never really
finished the area of Peruville and present it to the Town
Board . We need to shade it in the way it should be .
C . Twigg : This is the old zoning ordinance ?
G . Totman : Yes , the only change we made was in the McLean and PeruvillE.
areas . I want to make sure everybody agrees this is the way
it is before I give it to the Town Board .
C . Twigg : Did we change that on Rt . 2229
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J . MacNeil : Yes ,
G . Totman : This little map came from Gary Evans . We talked about the
McLean and Peruville areas , but he didn ' t change those .
L . Raymond : I suggest that in the Peruville area to use a medium zone
and be yin vicinity of the corner of Rt . 38 towards the Old
Milk Plant and another in the center of the village . I don ' t
see placing the rest of the area in a medium zone .
C . Twigg : Why would you change it from what it is here?
L . Raymond : This is . . . . . . . . . . . . low intensity zone .
G . Totman : The reason is , it does have potential for business on that
corner out near the railroad tracks . You have potential
where the milk plant used to be . Follow Rt . 38 and follow
out .- there is potential for business right there .
C . Twigg : In the middle of Peruville , where IGA used to be and all
around that corner of 38 and 34B is potential development -
industrial type for business .
N . Ostrander : There is no farm land right there . It ' s not being used either .
C . Twigg : It ' s right near to where somebody might want to put in a
business .
L . Raymond : Should the church be included in M zone ?
G . Totman : From the milk station up to the corner of Rt . 38 and 500 '
out right straight across . . . . . that won ' t touch the church .
L . Raymond : Are you sure?
G . Totman : It won ' t go far enough into church property anyway that anyone
would do anything .
L . Raymond : I wouldn ' t be surprised to see the 5009 line go through the
middle of the church .
Co Twigg : We should go down and pace off 500 ' to see where it would
come . It wouldn ' t be of any value to go 500 ' if you have 50 '
that any one could use . There should be some kind of
destination for the medium .
L . Raymond : Where does the church belong?
N . Ostrander : Community Assembly - would that be it ?
L . Raymond : I ' ll pace it off in the morning on my way to work , if you
want . Where did we have church listed?
N . Ostrander : Section 401 32 Community Assembly ,
L . Raymond : If we follow our previous descriptions on that , then we would
include it in medium . I thought of churches as residential
but I was wrong .
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G . Totman : O . K . What do you want to do ?
L . Raymond : To be consistant on what we have here , I would go along to
go with zoning it medium .
G . Totman : It ' s legal to cut boundaries . The state law is if you cut
boundaries , the zoning law will be in the fartherest boundary
line of the property . Property lines change , s &,� that you
would be continually changing zoning lines to go with property
lines .
L . Raymond : 500 ' from Rt . 38 . . . If that 500 ' should come inside church
boundaries , that would automatically extend to church
boundary ?
G . Totman : Yes . Basically , what we are discussing is academic . The
lawyers will take care of it . Whether we like it or not ,
that ' s the way it is .
In the McLean area , if you follow it , as much as you can ,
it will take you up to the Telephone Co . , across , down to
Champlin Rd . , to Munson used cars lot and up to school
grounds .
J . MacNeil : I think it should go down to town line to railroad tracks .
There ' s a small business now at the railroad .
N . Ostrander : A drilling company .
G . Totman. : That is in Dryden . Back to Peruville - if we go 500 ' there . . .
L . Raymond : I think it should be 250 ' - not 500 ' . Peruville is a small
residential community . There is nothing else there .
G . Totman : Start at corner where Pleasant Valley Rd . comes in and go
250 ' down to . . .
CO Twigg : If you went west from four corners , because east is all
residential .
L . Raymond : 250 ' back from corners and 500 ' west .
G . Totman : O . K . We agree , 500 ' from corner of Smith Rd . and Peruville
Rd . to the west and 250 ' depth the rest of the way .
G . Totman : I met with Ben Bucko for the purpose of assisting him in
writing up the parts of the Ordinance that has � to be put in
to make it legal publishing , so the town can make their
official notice of public hearing . He feels the part on
appeals gives too much power to the Zoning Board of Appeals .
It has them call people in for judgement . He doesn ' t think
it is legal . He ' ll check with the County Planning Board .
That was one thing .
O . K . , back in Article 4 Section 401 on 23 Residential
Buildings , he questions two things .
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G . Totman : Number 5 Mobile home - we have a zero down . We have it not
allowed in agricultural zones . I think it is a mistake . We
should have that on a regular zoning permit . It should
have a plus sign W on it and not a zero ( o ) . Everyone
agrees . O . K . , next one is number 8 Recreational Cabin -
we have it approved with low intensity and not allowed any
where else . I think we ' d better change that . It ' s an
error in the book .
CO Twigg : That should almost be allowed . In agricultural zone we have
to have a building permit . That would be plus sign .
R . Gleason : I ' d think you ' d want a special permit for rural agricultural
areas .
G . Totman : We ' ll change it to " permitted by zoning permit on rural
agricultural zone . " The rest will stay .
That is basically the just of what I had tonight . I would
like to mention that . Monday night they had a problem here ,
for the Zoning Board of Appeals . I think it ' s educational
to go to one of those . We make these up and the Zoning
Board of Appeals has the power to change them . A Board of
Appeals can ruin ordinances if they ' re not careful , and I
don ' t think you really get the just of what their job is .
Monday night Nancy came and she got a little education of it .
A lady moved her building on the land and did not get a
permit . She moved it too close to the back line . Eight
months later , the man who owns land next to her turned her
in to the town board of appeals becuase she is too close
to his land . The land that he has won ' t be used for anything
anyway . It is marsh land . They are not friends . It ' s
more of a personality conflict, is the just of it .
She comes down and applies for variance . She , supposedly ,
in her request for variance , says she is five feet from the
line . Law says she must be six feet from line . So , she is
one foot off , from her figures . So , she applies for a
variance .
It soutds like an easy case - give a variance for one foot .
Right ? But he comes in and says she is . right on the line . i
Basically , the Zoning Board of Appeals has to decide whether
to grant her a variance for a picky thing or look at the
law and say she in in violation . I have heard both sides of
the story many times over . Technically , what they should
have done , is give her a summons for violating from the
beginning , because she never applied for a building permit .
Cr Twigg : How big of a building?
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G . Totman : A 10 x 12 building . These people that sit here and make these
decisions are people who have nothing to do with making up
zoning ordinances in the first place . Some problems , I am
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sure , are much more involved than this one , but it was
interesting to sit there and listen to . j
CO Twigg : So , what did . they do in this particular case ?
G . Totman : They denied it . She has to move it back down to within six
feet of the boundary line .
L . Raymond : If there was a question of boundary line , it would seem to
me that the board be advised to. adjourn and get a surveyor
maybe , to desolee the thing .
J . MacNeil : Can I make a motion to adjourn?
G . Totman : Before you make the motion , I am not sure when the town
board will hold it ' s public hearing on this . The town has
tentatively passed what we have , but must have a public
hearing to approve it .
We , as a board , should come to the public hearing to help
answer questions or at least give the town our support with
the public . They called a public hearing just as an
informative meeting to the people . There was not a good
turn out . When they put it in the paper that thereaare new
ordinances , I am sure we will get more people out . I don' t
want to be the only one here . Unless we get some requests
for subdivision or something new , do you want to have a
meeting in July and August or use that public hearing as one
of our meetings ?
L . Raymond : I suggest we meet as necessary , i
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C . Twigg : We should familarize ourselves with the Zoning Ordinances
before then .
G . Totmant, We will meet on call in July and August and we will all go
to the public hearing that they have . If that is all
agreeable . . . then . . .
J . MacNeil : I • make a motion again to adjourn .
CO Two I seconded it .99
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Meeting was adjourned at 9 : 46 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Juleene Mestler
Recording Clerk