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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1981-03-18 � I ry TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING March 18 , 1981 PLANNING BOARD TOWN BOARD George Totman31 - Chairman Francis Carey* Lyle Raymond* - Vice - Chairman Verle Rankin* Cecil Twiggy Lewis Sovocool* Roger Gleason' Laura Haughn" Nancy Ostrander Gordon Vanbenscoten * James .MacNeil° Donald Paynes= F 3�Denotes - th-ose '' � pres=ent The meeting was called to order at 8030 Pam , G . Totman : What we ' re doing tonight is , hopefully , everybody ' s going over a copy of""the proposed change in the zoning laws , and hopefully answering questions that might be on everybody ' s minds . We ' ve spent 2 1/2 years going over this , Sometimes- it ' s better to have gone over them in our meetings . So , I guess the best thing to do would be to . turn the meeting over to Teresa , legal wise , according to Ben , the law would have to be related to abandoned buildings , solar energy , building T . Robinson : and type of building V . Rankin : LDQ,.,you , have anything here on the abandoned buildings ? Y G . Totman : Is there any questions ? T . Robinson : Don ' t you think we should set a time limit on how long we want to be here , and then if .'there are any questions we could go from there . I mean , I don' t want to rush through it because it ' s very important and you ' ve worked a long time on it and I think it ' s something that should be taken very seriously , G . Totman : Has everybody read a copy ? C . Twigg : A lot of these ideas were :Gary ' s and he ' s on the town and he was here helping in making this up , T . Robinson : What do you thinkis the most important thing : G . Totman : The most importnat thing we ' ve gone over is various degrees in this ordinance , I think the biggest change is the format and making it easier for the public to understand , That was the purpose of it , df• Robinson : Can I set an example of the problem ? If I set up a situation how is this going to be solved , Some person has , say 40 acres of land ; but have only 130 feet of frontage . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . by a variance , right ? G . Totman : Yes , . that ' s right , �. C . Twigg : Was it a variance ? I thought it was for a permit . That comes under special permit , doesn ' t it ? G . Totman : What we had to deal with was the county . The county requires a 200 foot diameter . What I was going to ask , also Teresa was if they ' re going to develop this , T . Robinson : Somebody was going to have 10 acres out of this 40 acres and I build a house on it , by special permit , You have an area that ' s only 130 feet G . Totman : Has it been that way for a number of years ? Did this 130 foot front get created after 1972 ? If it was created before then you can get a special variance without a special permit , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . He anted to know if he could build there . Can somebody build a house on it ? C . Twigg : That ' s covered in there because there ' s one up on W . Groton Road . . The guy has a right of way and he wants to build in there . In other words , you're defeating the purpose of the 200 foot frontage so people aren ' t building on top of each other . It ' s in there because we discussed that , G . Totman : Like I say we ' ve been working on that for 2 1/2 years . To answer one of your . other questions , one of the major things Z we changed in the oning districts as to what ' s allowed and not allowed in that section 401 Article 4 we added a zone , L . Sovocool : You had medium , low , and high didn ' t you ? G . Totman : Yes . What we ' ve done in a lot of them here is put them under special permit instead of saying they ' re not allowed any where , It goes to a special hearing and gives people a chance to say what goes on in their district . They ' re not going to have any choice as to whether it does or not , but it gives the zoning board something to go on , L . Rankin : Section 701 covers what you ' re asking about , part 7 . G . Totman : The whole thing is the health dept . has to approve it . Then you can go to the zoning board , T . Robinson : Then you go to the appeals board . C . Twigg : He could build a road , and you would have to accept it . It could be done , What you ' re really . looking for is a solution . That ' s somewhere , We talked about that , and we were talking whether to allow building lots on that right of way . We weren ' t going to allow any building on this if it was . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . not to be any building on this narrow . But what if they wanted a small building for the kids to wait for the bus in , G . Totman : That doesn ' t come under this regulation .9 anyway . That ' s allowable . T . Robinson : Did you get into anything on that , building farther back ? G . Totman : It ' s a matter of a driveway you could put in a road in this way . But that gets into your policy of accepting roads . L . Sovocool : Most towns have discouraged that . You ' ve got the problem of summer camps and soon . G . Totman : Section 400 I was talking about is where . you were . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . is allowed without a permit and " S " is requiring a permit . C . Twigg : Some of that could come under this subdivision . It could be just one house up there . When you get into this sub- division you get into roadways and driveways . The bottom line in 701 he was talking about is if they meet these re - quirements , then you could go to a zoning ordinance . If you make it too simple , there ' s no object in having it in the ordinance . R . Gleason : What a;)out Verle ' s question about the building contract . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Then all you ' re about is a seperate building 1OX10 or a connected building ? Provided he doesn ' t build one building on a 40 acre lot . L . Sovocool : Say he ' s putting one here , 1OX10 , and here 1OX10 . We don ' t have anything to do with that . G . Totman : What you ' re talking about , that is a seperate housing code . L ' Sovocool : You ' ve got to have so,- many square feet to begin with . He went around and built on the front and back then around the sides of it . C . Twigg : He ' s staying within the side requirements and how can you tell a person what shape it can be . You ' re gettingg into the .Zoning 'ord'inanae . What' you this ;th.ing for is to keep your lawn mower in or your - garden tools . You just can ' t . have somebody running every minute to check on everybody . L . Sovocool : What if you make it less than 1OX10 ? G . Totman : This is the point . They want to build a porch or something like this . We ' ve got to do something for a situation like this . C . Twigg : I don ' t think you can , really . We tried to come up with something for something like this , but how are you going to controll it ? G . Totman : I think we better talk to Ben or pass it up to the County Planning Board and see what they suggest . T . Robinson : I ' ll take that up with Frank and his crew and see what they say . C . Twigg : The ,- other big thing we did in the different categories of what you can build - and what you can ' t . It makes a difference in the Zoning Laws , G . Totman : This looks quite simple when it ' s down on paper , V . Fankin : I think it ' s real good , G . Totman : We tried to cover as much as possible to see what we had , V . Rankin : You ' re going to have to rewrite these things to cover situ . 'd.- ,=ions that aren ' t here . L . Raymond : We tried to go on the old ordinance . For instance , to see a medical center or doctor ' . s office but maybe they forgot to put something in that was related but not specifically listed . If it wasn ' t listed , then it wasn ' t allowed . But ;' , under the new divisions , we tried to make a general category . If something new comes along that ' s under that category , then it ' s okay if it ' s related to the facility or to the land it will not require a revision , hopefully , from this point of view , One of the things that we want to address ; . is where you might have industry or commercial activities , What we found out that there ' s really no _;onel, area each one ' s rated on own merits G . Totman : We put them under special permit . They ' ll go to the Zoning Board of appeals , and the Planning Board will meet with the appeals board and have a hearing , T . Robinson : Now this v 'll do away with . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . In other words , we won ' t have this area up here . G . Totman : You ' re going to have 4 sections ; rural , agricultrural , medium intensity , th:e.n industrial . The area there will go in under special permit . It can be substituted . . . . . . . . . . Before , this no one could go anywhere else in the town , but now they can go somewhere else with a special permit , C . Twigg : A lot of these things now have a special permit and others have a zoning permit , T . Robinson : In other words , the Board of Appeals is going to be doing a lot more work , C . Twigg : They don ' t have to go talk to the Board of Appeals for the special permit . The fee is what ? $ 20 or $15 ? R . Gleason : That was for development , :-,, or something . A special permit wasn ' t that much . C . Twigg : A special permit calls for a special hearing , if it ' s something that ' s going to irritate the people . G . Totman : It ' s going to protect the people in the vicinity . L . Rankin : Article 2 L . Sovocool : Special permit is $40 . 00 , Idop. i ' T . Robinson : What category does it get into ? G . Totman : Section 205 will answer your questionI 'think , L . Rankine Mine isn ' t what you ' ve got , George . G . Totman : Section 205 - 205 . 1 . You ' ve got an old copy there :- Throw that one away.;�h Teresa used this one for copy . Rankine The Town Board gets involved when you have a town board review . G . Totman : Does that answer your question ? L . Sovocool : A special permit costs $4. 0 now , plus the cost of the hearing . T . Robinson : The one we ' re talking about now is special permit . by the zoning appeals as permitted with special permit . . . . . , . . . reviewed then the zoning appeals as reviewed . I I G . Totman : Iri 6h s ' article there ':s __ someth ng that wasn ' t in the other ordinance , If somebody applies for a special permit , the appeals board turns it over to the planning board . The planning board can ' t do anything about it , but it can give it to the appeals board as to what to do about it . T . Robinson ; , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , special permit as you would by the Town Board and the Town Board has reserved the boundary to As a. special permit , it ' s environmental . Then what ' s this Part 5 special permits . G . Totman : There ' s a part here on that . Actually , Article 4 spells j out what the Zoning Appeals does , but the special permits don ' t have to come through the Town Board . If you had read these previously , you would have noticed that in Part 4 it explains about the variance in the appeals . It goes into depth here and refers to the board of appeals . This part 4 tells who has the power to appeal and who may appeal . This section really lays it out quite concisely for the Board of - Appeals . You have to have this thing in front of you here . C . Twigg : You could give it to the Town Board all listed and everything . V . Rankine If it was . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . according to that it would be a lot more preferable . F . Carey : I think that as with many of the ordinances just using it in a lot of instances will make it a lot clearer . Just simply reading it didn ' t do good enough . IThere ' s nothing wrong with it here but you ' ve got to put it to work . T . Robinson : Is there any criticism that you ' ve all had about this ? V . Rankine The only criticism I would have had is I would have made it stronger . Some of these copies would have been in ac - cordance with that book there . G . Totman : I can come down with Teresa and we could go _ back . over _ these and try to put them in some kind of order , . . . , . . , . . . . . . . . . . the contents here as to proceed further with it in the . public hearings . It doesn ' t mean you ' re accepting it as it is now . It means you ' re accepting this as -,-' you will present it to the public . When you have a public hearing , you might find some things that are in need of further study . L . Sovocool : I almost think that if ypu change it you ' re going to have to put the whole thing in the paper . T . Robinson : If this was put in the order that was here and find out what we have to do with hearings, just have several copies here at the office . G . Totman : That would be okay for informal hearings , but when you go to have the formal hearing , you have to publish the hearing like a newspaper , oTheh when that all is corrected then you put it in the nice little booklet . T . Robinson : You have to know what they ' re against before you can get this far . I think the thing you can point out is that you can travel around here and see the need they need taking care of , but specifically you can see the difference when you travel into other counties . G . Totman : Roger was talking about having informal public hearings and we were trying to educate the people as to what this is all about . We had more people come out for the trailer ordinance thairnwe did for the other ones . R . Gleason . Actuall y there ' s no reason in general as you stud this g y y thing out in comparison to what we ' ve got . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . Robinson : Ben has to assimilate this into your plan . The building . ordinance that we have has to be put in there someplace . That will be in there . L . Sovocool : I think you only need the one hearing . You ' ve already got zoning . G . Totman : That ' s up to Ben how to do that . Then you can divide and have a public hearing . T . Robinson : You have to put that to us in a board meeting . G . Totman : We did , in December . T . Robinson : Not really . G . Totman : We presented this for your approval at the December meeting . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F . Carey : Three feet clearance on a corner lot , or does it refer to any corner ? Does it refer to a lot ? T . Robinson : Fence and trees , I think . Does it refer to agriculture ? R . Gleason : It refers to fences but not crops . I ' d like on that because where this is involved in that on our .,-- corner , If I remember right . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . brought that up to 50 feet , and we can cut down your . corn . This refers to a corner on Stage and Salt Roads C . Twigg : Ron Space cuts his corn early , on his own , He had, a bad accident on that . corner a long time ago , and people com- plained about it . It grows so high on that corner you can ' t see , G . Totman : We talked about that a long time ago . Signs on inter- sections , or shrubbery Section 217 , I don ' t think this has anything to do with that . We may be referring to the old ordinance , ' For reasons of traffic safety . No trees permitted on any corner lot along the street to the points on the lots . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . lines have a distance of 20 feet between these points . C . Twigg : That ' s only a 40 foot strip . V . Rankin : That doesn ' t present a problem , R . Carey : In other words , you ' d have to come back 20 yards from the center line . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . Twigg : , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Lansing Road , there ' s that hedge fence right along the edge of the road . You almost have to pull the front of your car out into the middle of the intersection , to see down the road . G . Totman : I guess the change that the town board gave the planning board as far as the zoning ordinance goes up to this point is complete as ' I understand it . You ' ve agreed to go to public hearing and see if it meets with approval . Then present it to you to have it updated just to show where these sections are that we ' ve got , I think it should be something more permanent . Is there anything else that the Town Board would like to have the Planning Board take a look at or get involved in ? Does anybody have anything else to add ? T . Robinson : I guess that ' s it then . Meeting ended at 9 : 50 p . m . Secretary Protem Ellen Alexander i TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD Minutes 4 - 15 - 81 George Totman Cecil Twigg Lyle Raymond James MacNeil Roger Gleason %; Nancy Ostrander Don Payne Denotes those present . Chairman George L . Totman opened the meeting at 8 : 10 p . m . G . Totman - Stated that minutes from the last meeting haven ' t been typed yet . He passed around the rough draft to be read . After a few minor changes were made James MacNeil moved that they be accepted , seconded by Nancy Ostrander . He also explained that for the benefit of those who could not make the last meeting that the Town Board has tentatively accepted our proposed changes in the Town Zoning Ordinance , The Town Board has set an , April 29 , 1981 date for a public information meeting and asked the Planning Board to be present to help explain and answer questions . J : MacNeil -Asked if we are expected to field most of the questions , and also thought that maybe we should have a better index in the ordinance . G . Totman -Said that this is our Annual Meeting and we are supposed to elect a chairman , . vice chairmanj, and correspoiAsecretary tonight . He stated that to his knowledge there.'"- .etnding business to be brought up tbnight unless someone here knows of some . R . Gleason -Suggested that maybe we should start looking into the Sub - Division Regulation to see if they need over hauling . G . Totman - Stated that maybe at our next meeting we had best start redoing the official zoning map for the Town as regards to where the various zones lie . G . Totman -To make this election legal we should have an acting chairman . He then appointed Nancy Ostrander . R . Gleason -Moved that we re - elect George Totman Chairman , Lyle Raymond Vice -Chairman , and Cecil Twigg Corresponding Secretary . J . MacNeil - I second the motion . N . Ostrander -Called the motion . All in favor - Passed . Meeting adjourned at 9 : 00 P . M . Secretary Protem ? .