HomeMy WebLinkAbout1981-03-18 � I
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TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING
March 18 , 1981
PLANNING BOARD TOWN BOARD
George Totman31 - Chairman Francis Carey*
Lyle Raymond* - Vice - Chairman Verle Rankin*
Cecil Twiggy Lewis Sovocool*
Roger Gleason' Laura Haughn"
Nancy Ostrander Gordon Vanbenscoten *
James .MacNeil°
Donald Paynes= F
3�Denotes - th-ose '' � pres=ent
The meeting was called to order at 8030 Pam ,
G . Totman : What we ' re doing tonight is , hopefully , everybody ' s going
over a copy of""the proposed change in the zoning laws , and
hopefully answering questions that might be on everybody ' s
minds . We ' ve spent 2 1/2 years going over this ,
Sometimes- it ' s better to
have gone over them in our meetings . So , I guess the best
thing to do would be to . turn the meeting over to Teresa ,
legal wise , according to Ben , the law would
have to be related to abandoned buildings , solar energy ,
building
T . Robinson : and type of building
V . Rankin : LDQ,.,you , have anything here on the abandoned buildings ?
Y
G . Totman : Is there any questions ?
T . Robinson : Don ' t you think we should set a time limit on how long we
want to be here , and then if .'there are any questions we could
go from there . I mean , I don' t want to rush through it
because it ' s very important and you ' ve worked a long time on
it and I think it ' s something that should be taken very
seriously ,
G . Totman : Has everybody read a copy ?
C . Twigg : A lot of these ideas were :Gary ' s and he ' s on the town and he
was here helping in making this up ,
T . Robinson : What do you thinkis the most important thing :
G . Totman : The most importnat thing we ' ve gone over is various degrees
in this ordinance , I think the biggest change is the format
and making it easier for the public to understand , That
was the purpose of it ,
df•
Robinson : Can I set an example of the problem ? If I set up a situation
how is this going to be solved , Some person has , say 40
acres of land ; but have only 130 feet of frontage . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . by a variance , right ?
G . Totman : Yes , . that ' s right , �.
C . Twigg : Was it a variance ? I thought it was for a permit . That
comes under special permit , doesn ' t it ?
G . Totman : What we had to deal with was the county . The county requires
a 200 foot diameter . What I was going to ask , also Teresa
was if they ' re going to develop this ,
T . Robinson : Somebody was going to have 10 acres out of this 40 acres and I
build a house on it , by special permit , You have an area
that ' s only 130 feet
G . Totman : Has it been that way for a number of years ? Did this 130
foot front get created after 1972 ? If it was created before
then you can get a special variance without a special permit ,
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . He anted to know if he could build
there . Can somebody build a house on it ?
C . Twigg : That ' s covered in there because there ' s one up on W . Groton
Road . . The guy has a right of way and he wants to build in
there . In other words , you're defeating the purpose of the
200 foot frontage so people aren ' t building on top of each
other . It ' s in there because we discussed that ,
G . Totman : Like I say we ' ve been working on that for 2 1/2 years . To
answer one of your . other questions , one of the major things
Z
we changed in the oning districts as to what ' s allowed and
not allowed in that section 401 Article 4 we added a zone ,
L . Sovocool : You had medium , low , and high didn ' t you ?
G . Totman : Yes . What we ' ve done in a lot of them here is put them under
special permit instead of saying they ' re not allowed any where ,
It goes to a special hearing and gives people a chance to
say what goes on in their district . They ' re not going to have
any choice as to whether it does or not , but it gives the
zoning board something to go on ,
L . Rankin : Section 701 covers what you ' re asking about , part 7 .
G . Totman : The whole thing is the health dept . has to approve it . Then
you can go to the zoning board ,
T . Robinson : Then you go to the appeals board .
C . Twigg : He could build a road , and you would have to accept it . It
could be done , What you ' re really . looking for is a solution .
That ' s somewhere , We talked about that , and we were talking
whether to allow building lots on that right of way . We
weren ' t going to allow any building on this if it was . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . not to be any building on this narrow . But what if
they wanted a small building for the kids to wait for the bus
in ,
G . Totman : That doesn ' t come under this regulation .9 anyway . That ' s
allowable .
T . Robinson : Did you get into anything on that , building farther back ?
G . Totman : It ' s a matter of a driveway you could put in a road in this
way . But that gets into your policy of accepting roads .
L . Sovocool : Most towns have discouraged that . You ' ve got the problem
of summer camps and soon .
G . Totman : Section 400 I was talking about is where . you were . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . is allowed without a permit and " S "
is requiring a permit .
C . Twigg : Some of that could come under this subdivision . It could
be just one house up there . When you get into this sub-
division you get into roadways and driveways . The bottom
line in 701 he was talking about is if they meet these re -
quirements , then you could go to a zoning ordinance . If
you make it too simple , there ' s no object in having it in
the ordinance .
R . Gleason : What a;)out Verle ' s question about the building contract . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Then all you ' re about is a seperate building
1OX10 or a connected building ? Provided he doesn ' t build
one building on a 40 acre lot .
L . Sovocool : Say he ' s putting one here , 1OX10 , and here 1OX10 . We don ' t
have anything to do with that .
G . Totman : What you ' re talking about , that is a seperate housing code .
L ' Sovocool : You ' ve got to have so,- many square feet to begin with . He
went around and built on the front and back then around the
sides of it .
C . Twigg : He ' s staying within the side requirements and how can you
tell a person what shape it can be . You ' re gettingg into
the .Zoning 'ord'inanae . What' you this ;th.ing for is to keep
your lawn mower in or your - garden tools . You just can ' t .
have somebody running every minute to check on everybody .
L . Sovocool : What if you make it less than 1OX10 ?
G . Totman : This is the point . They want to build a porch or something
like this . We ' ve got to do something for a situation like
this .
C . Twigg : I don ' t think you can , really . We tried to come up with
something for something like this , but how are you going
to controll it ?
G . Totman : I think we better talk to Ben or pass it up to the County
Planning Board and see what they suggest .
T . Robinson : I ' ll take that up with Frank and his crew and see what they say .
C . Twigg : The ,- other big thing we did in the different categories of
what you can build - and what you can ' t . It makes a difference
in the Zoning Laws ,
G . Totman : This looks quite simple when it ' s down on paper ,
V . Fankin : I think it ' s real good ,
G . Totman : We tried to cover as much as possible to see what we had ,
V . Rankin : You ' re going to have to rewrite these things to cover situ .
'd.- ,=ions that aren ' t here .
L . Raymond : We tried to go on the old ordinance . For instance , to see
a medical center or doctor ' . s office but maybe they forgot
to put something in that was related but not specifically
listed . If it wasn ' t listed , then it wasn ' t allowed . But ;' ,
under the new divisions , we tried to make a general category .
If something new comes along that ' s under that category , then
it ' s okay if it ' s related to the facility or to the land it
will not require a revision , hopefully , from this point of
view , One of the things that we want to address ; . is where
you might have industry or commercial activities , What we
found out that there ' s really no _;onel, area each one ' s
rated on own merits
G . Totman : We put them under special permit . They ' ll go to the Zoning
Board of appeals , and the Planning Board will meet with the
appeals board and have a hearing ,
T . Robinson : Now this v 'll do away with . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . In other
words , we won ' t have this area up here .
G . Totman : You ' re going to have 4 sections ; rural , agricultrural ,
medium intensity , th:e.n industrial . The area there will go
in under special permit . It can be substituted . . . . . . . . . .
Before , this no one could go anywhere else in the town , but
now they can go somewhere else with a special permit ,
C . Twigg : A lot of these things now have a special permit and others
have a zoning permit ,
T . Robinson : In other words , the Board of Appeals is going to be doing
a lot more work ,
C . Twigg : They don ' t have to go talk to the Board of Appeals for the
special permit . The fee is what ? $ 20 or $15 ?
R . Gleason : That was for development , :-,, or something . A special permit
wasn ' t that much .
C . Twigg : A special permit calls for a special hearing , if it ' s
something that ' s going to irritate the people .
G . Totman : It ' s going to protect the people in the vicinity .
L . Rankin : Article 2
L . Sovocool : Special permit is $40 . 00 ,
Idop.
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' T . Robinson : What category does it get into ?
G . Totman : Section 205 will answer your questionI 'think ,
L . Rankine Mine isn ' t what you ' ve got , George .
G . Totman : Section 205 - 205 . 1 . You ' ve got an old copy there :- Throw
that one away.;�h Teresa used this one for copy .
Rankine The Town Board gets involved when you have a town board
review .
G . Totman : Does that answer your question ?
L . Sovocool : A special permit costs $4. 0 now , plus the cost of the hearing .
T . Robinson : The one we ' re talking about now is special permit . by the
zoning appeals as permitted with special permit . . . . . , . . .
reviewed then the zoning appeals as reviewed . I
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G . Totman : Iri 6h s ' article there ':s __ someth ng that wasn ' t in the other
ordinance , If somebody applies for a special permit , the
appeals board turns it over to the planning board . The
planning board can ' t do anything about it , but it can give
it to the appeals board as to what to do about it .
T . Robinson ; , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , special permit as you would by the Town
Board and the Town Board has reserved the boundary to
As a. special permit , it ' s environmental . Then what ' s this
Part 5 special permits .
G . Totman : There ' s a part here on that . Actually , Article 4 spells j
out what the Zoning Appeals does , but the special permits
don ' t have to come through the Town Board . If you had
read these previously , you would have noticed that in Part 4
it explains about the variance in the appeals . It goes
into depth here and refers to the board of appeals . This
part 4 tells who has the power to appeal and who may appeal .
This section really lays it out quite concisely for the
Board of - Appeals . You have to have this thing in front of
you here .
C . Twigg : You could give it to the Town Board all listed and everything .
V . Rankine If it was . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . according to that it would be a
lot more preferable .
F . Carey : I think that as with many of the ordinances just using it
in a lot of instances will make it a lot clearer . Just
simply reading it didn ' t do good enough . IThere ' s nothing
wrong with it here but you ' ve got to put it to work .
T . Robinson : Is there any criticism that you ' ve all had about this ?
V . Rankine The only criticism I would have had is I would have made
it stronger . Some of these copies would have been in ac -
cordance with that book there .
G . Totman : I can come down with Teresa and we could go _ back . over _ these
and try to put them in some kind of order , . . . , . . , . . . . . . . . . .
the contents here as to proceed further with it in the . public
hearings . It doesn ' t mean you ' re accepting it as it is
now . It means you ' re accepting this as -,-' you will present
it to the public . When you have a public hearing , you
might find some things that are in need of further study .
L . Sovocool : I almost think that if ypu change it you ' re going to have
to put the whole thing in the paper .
T . Robinson : If this was put in the order that was here and find out
what we have to do with hearings, just have several copies
here at the office .
G . Totman : That would be okay for informal hearings , but when you go
to have the formal hearing , you have to publish the hearing
like a newspaper , oTheh when that all is corrected then
you put it in the nice little booklet .
T . Robinson : You have to know what they ' re against before you can get
this far . I think the thing you can point out is that
you can travel around here and see the need they need taking
care of , but specifically you can see the difference when
you travel into other counties .
G . Totman : Roger was talking about having informal public hearings
and we were trying to educate the people as to what this
is all about . We had more people come out for the trailer
ordinance thairnwe did for the other ones .
R . Gleason . Actuall
y there ' s no reason in general as you stud this
g y y
thing out in comparison to what we ' ve got . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
T . Robinson : Ben has to assimilate this into your plan . The building
. ordinance that we have has to be put in there someplace .
That will be in there .
L . Sovocool : I think you only need the one hearing . You ' ve already got
zoning .
G . Totman : That ' s up to Ben how to do that . Then you can divide
and have a public hearing .
T . Robinson : You have to put that to us in a board meeting .
G . Totman : We did , in December .
T . Robinson : Not really .
G . Totman : We presented this for your approval at the December meeting .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
F . Carey : Three feet clearance on a corner lot , or does it refer to
any corner ? Does it refer to a lot ?
T . Robinson : Fence and trees , I think . Does it refer to agriculture ?
R . Gleason : It refers to fences but not crops . I ' d like
on that because where this is involved in that on our .,-- corner ,
If I remember right . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . brought that up to 50
feet , and we can cut down your . corn . This refers to a
corner on Stage and Salt Roads
C . Twigg : Ron Space cuts his corn early , on his own , He had, a bad
accident on that . corner a long time ago , and people com-
plained about it . It grows so high on that corner you
can ' t see ,
G . Totman : We talked about that a long time ago . Signs on inter-
sections , or shrubbery Section 217 , I don ' t think this
has anything to do with that . We may be referring to
the old ordinance , ' For reasons of traffic safety . No
trees permitted on any corner lot along the street to the
points on the lots . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . lines have a distance
of 20 feet between these points .
C . Twigg : That ' s only a 40 foot strip .
V . Rankin : That doesn ' t present a problem ,
R . Carey : In other words , you ' d have to come back 20 yards from the
center line . : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
C . Twigg : , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Lansing Road , there ' s that hedge
fence right along the edge of the road . You almost have
to pull the front of your car out into the middle of the
intersection , to see down the road .
G . Totman : I guess the change that the town board gave the planning
board as far as the zoning ordinance goes up to this point
is complete as ' I understand it . You ' ve agreed to go to
public hearing and see if it meets with approval . Then
present it to you to have it updated just to show where
these sections are that we ' ve got , I think it should be
something more permanent . Is there anything else that
the Town Board would like to have the Planning Board take
a look at or get involved in ? Does anybody have anything
else to add ?
T . Robinson : I guess that ' s it then .
Meeting ended at 9 : 50 p . m .
Secretary Protem
Ellen Alexander
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TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD
Minutes 4 - 15 - 81
George Totman Cecil Twigg
Lyle Raymond James MacNeil
Roger Gleason %; Nancy Ostrander
Don Payne
Denotes those present .
Chairman George L . Totman opened the meeting at 8 : 10 p . m .
G . Totman - Stated that minutes from the last meeting haven ' t
been typed yet . He passed around the rough draft
to be read . After a few minor changes were made
James MacNeil moved that they be accepted , seconded
by Nancy Ostrander . He also explained that for the
benefit of those who could not make the last meeting
that the Town Board has tentatively accepted our
proposed changes in the Town Zoning Ordinance ,
The Town Board has set an , April 29 , 1981 date for
a public information meeting and asked the Planning
Board to be present to help explain and answer
questions .
J : MacNeil -Asked if we are expected to field most of the
questions , and also thought that maybe we should
have a better index in the ordinance .
G . Totman -Said that this is our Annual Meeting and we are
supposed to elect a chairman , . vice chairmanj, and
correspoiAsecretary tonight . He stated that
to his knowledge there.'"- .etnding business to be
brought up tbnight unless someone here knows of some .
R . Gleason -Suggested that maybe we should start looking into
the Sub - Division Regulation to see if they need
over hauling .
G . Totman - Stated that maybe at our next meeting we had best
start redoing the official zoning map for the Town
as regards to where the various zones lie .
G . Totman -To make this election legal we should have an acting
chairman . He then appointed Nancy Ostrander .
R . Gleason -Moved that we re - elect George Totman Chairman ,
Lyle Raymond Vice -Chairman , and Cecil Twigg Corresponding
Secretary .
J . MacNeil - I second the motion .
N . Ostrander -Called the motion . All in favor - Passed .
Meeting adjourned at 9 : 00 P . M .
Secretary Protem ? .