HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980-12-10 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Held. at '
Groton Town Hall
December 10 , 1980 - 8 : 00 P . M .
* denotes those present
G . Totman Be Bucko
L . Raymond T . Robinson
R . Gleason x V . Rankin
D . Payne G . Van Ben Schoten
C . Twigg L . Sovocool •
J . McNeil F . Carrey
The meeting began at 8 : 15 p . m . with the discussion of special
permits .
Totman : Where did you read this ?
Bucko : I don ' t know , I saw it in here ; that is the reason I raised
the question . Right here ( section. 202 . 2 ) The reason I wa. s trying
to find it is , I don ' t recall Town Board special permit , under 501 ,
as I was reading . - - - 501 , this is how you issue the permit .
Totman : Under special permit issue - - - - -- what is doing now , - - combined
plan . In fact , it makes more work for the Planning Board and the
Board of Appeals because of the way the ordinance is written . .
Be Bucko rea. ds . 502 .
Totman : May be some reason in state law . Lyle , do you recall
granting special permits .
Raymond : There was a discussion one ' might . Trying to think
what the circumstances were about that . I don ' t recall what members
were present at the time , something about the special permit and
something about what would hinder the possibility of- - - and what
would hinder Zoning Board of running the thing through without
looking at it . I don ' t clearly recall, but it had something to
do alot with the Town Board in certain cases of taking the power
away from the Zoning Board as it was . I clearly recall_ something of
that general vein .
Bucko : Application of a special permeit comes TownBoard , whether
Zoning Board should handle it , take it away .
Totman : . I don ' t like that statement .
Raymond : I don ' t either
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. .G
Rankin : I don ' t either .
Bucko : What I think has to happen , you guys have been working on .
this for two years , spent your time on it . May cost money to reprint
it but you have to have it reprinted .
Totman : Done in sections . Reprint certain things .
Bucko : - - - - - - - - - all sides the pages - - - - .
Totman : We had hoped to have three of these books . When I got
them . this morning , I called Gary back , he then remembered he was
suppose to make two other books . What we are doing tonight is to
go over and leave this book with you and Teresa .
Bucko : For instance , not being critical or anything , Section 217 ,
destruction of buildings . Here is where it has to be condusive
- - - - and we are now amending . The hearing ' s next week . You guys
working on this , just that section is not consistent with the law .
This has to be consistent with law . You guys have done a helluva
job . - - - - - - - - - - simplified things - - - - - - - - leaves alot for the Town Board ,
Totman : Special permits need more work on for Zoning Board .
Bucko : Planning Board .
Totman Study this out . - - - - certain areas not consistent - - - - - we
are not as consistent in that area .
Bucko : Means you have to have facts and figures .
Totman : Creates more work for us .
�I
Bucko : Town hearings - - - -
Totman : If Groton was - - - - as Dryden did .
Bucko : Over all , what you here - - - -
Rankin You ' re the one that approved the old one .
Totman : Basically what we intended to get . We have been working
on this for two years - - nor Town Board involved in it` . Rather than y ; c
present a book like this , we made a summary . This is the official
book of the Planning Board . We might have to go back . We are not
saying it is perfect . This is the work of the Planning Board and
wording from Gary Evans for our thoughts . '
Rankin : He wrote the book ?
Totman : From our meetings , he wrote the book .
Robinson : What - do you mean special permits ?
Totman : For example , the undertaking service in a commercial
zone , should be under special permit , should regular zoning permit
in industrial - - - put in other zone . Should look at the area , see
what it contains .
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Bucko : They have undertaking in industrial .
Totman : We are saying under special permit , conducive to the area. ,
gives people a chance to see what is going on .
Robinson : That would be allowed on Rt . 222 ?
Bucko : Now is allowed .
Robinson : Now allowed ?
Totman : The real estate dealers will- say , " What is allowed in this
area ? " You tell them anything is allowed , it ' s a breach of contract .
People who are spending alot of money , they ' re concerned with what
is a. 11owed , in the area .
Bucko : If you have agriculture , then a motor vehicle shop .
Payne : That was . brought up awhile ago . .
Totman : We are saying what is allowed under special permit - - - - - - - - - - - .
Bucko : What they saying is that you have an area and hope that
- - - - - - - north ofRRt . 38 , what if there is someone who wants to come
in and build something though the ordinance says no . May be inconsistent
with the rule , but you may think that this type of activity should
be allowed . Am I clear in this analysis ?
Raymond : That is the thought in general .
Robinson : Who is this going through ?
Bucko : Board of Appeals , and interviewed by thePlanning Board .
Totrnan : If you are going to have the Planning Board granting special
permits - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - it had no say in the world what made
the or. d nance . In fact , the schools of New York of where the
Board of Appeals was . - - - - - happen in the past , - - - - - - - wha. t we are
saying is put them together .
Bucko : - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Last page says the Planning Board will not
- - - - - - these circumstances are not met . This presents a job , how do
you know if they meet ?
Robinson : Actually , Board. of Appeals has power of judgement , the
next step goes to the court ?
Bucko : That ' s true .
Robinson : Then , what you are saying , - - our laws - - - they have to apply
their judgement .
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Totman : It is the intent of the Planning Board .
Robinson : Board of Appeals , I think . This should be ,up to the
two bodies to take care of - - - - - - - - - haul them into court .
Bucko : ( 202 ) Are you saying Planning Board gives recommendations
to the Board of Appeals - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '?
Payne : We are an advisory board .
Totman : I think by state law we can ' t change that .
Bucko : What I am . asking , must special permits recommended by the
Manning Board or granted by the Town Board or Board of Appeals . . . ?
Totman : Town Board over - rules .
Rankin This guy must know what he has to do .
Robinson : It is one - - the person who issues permits to prove the
Totman : - - - - - - They give your make recommendations ,
but Board of Appeals - - - decide the one thing .
Robinson: The decision based on- - - - - - - -
Totman : Sometimes not . Stop and think of. the money - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ and this
way the law of state is written . Planning Board feels people can
do the job , but those people have never worked on a zoning ordinance
you read in all areas of state , New York Board of
Appeals makes suggestions . We are saying important to be - - - - - - - - - - •
Rankin : Good thing .
Robinson : That is the reason I wanted to know if you guys knew who
was on the Board of Appeals .
Totman : Should be working closely withthe two Boards . - - - - - - -
Basically revise zoning ordinance and to look into the references - - - - - .
Bucko : Has
Raymond $ Really recently ? .
Robinson : I am especially intrigued by 108 . What does that mean?
Bucko : One part invalid , the rest is valid . Clled the grandfather
clause . It means if one section in invalid or declared invalide ,
it doesn ' t make the entire ordinance invalid .
Rankin : Do you have anything on these coops - 10x 10 ? Here it
says you can build morethan one of these things . Case in West
Groton , buy built one of these buildings , then at least three
more of these . 10 x 10 ' s .
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Bucko : Attached to each other ?
Rankin : No , not attached , but he has . bu'ilt two or three 10 x 101s .
Bucko : He has to have a building permit for each of them .
Rankin : We . got into a real big . pow wow .
Bucko : . 10 x 10 separate ?
Rankin : How many allowed ?
Bucko : As long as - - - - - - - - -
Rankin : He has some attached to the building .
Bucko : , Everytime - - - - the building , he has to have in the law .
Robinson : Does it say separate ?.
Bucko : Yes . .
Rankin : We ' ll come to that .
Bucko : - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - attached .
Rankin' Or he was sly .
Robinson : The one that screamed at me .
Bucko : You said was indifferent to . zoning laws . .
Robinson : Yes . - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Rankin : Ordinance allows to do this ?
Bucko : I told Bob Brown . He said he needed a zoning- permits
Robinson : He orginally . was going to build a garage . . Don 'it know
if he got permit .
Bucko : . - - - - - - - - living in the gar . e then built on . Bob Brown told
-him ' he could not have it unless - - - - - - - - . He said , " I got the .
square footage . " - - - minimum square footage - - - - - - - - I don ' t
recall as he built it . If he , . - - - - - - -minimum square footage- part .
Payne .: No matter what of - - or how tight you are going to have
trouble . It ' s going to happen .
. Rankin : - - -
Robinson : One man asked us if he built an underground home , why
did he need a building permit , and if not above ground , why did he
have to pay taxes ?
Totman : You asked about underground ?