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Home My WebLink About1980-11-25 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING Held at Groton Town Hall November 25 , 1980 - 8 : ) 00 p . m . G . Evans G . Totman J . MacNeil -� L . Raymond D . Payne -� R . Gleason . C . Tw igg Denotes those present . Totman began the meeting at 8 : 00 p, . m . Totman : In first , . we should have met before this . I assumed someone had set a date . There are quite a few delays by not having a regular meeting date , we get lead astray . - We should pick a regular meeting date . Most any date is good for me - - the second Tuesday ? Raymond : Wednesday is a bit better . Totman : Wednesday night sounds all right . Second. Wednesday of the month ? Raymond : Fine with me . Totman : I asked Gary to come tonight . - as long as we understand what is in this big book , We are about to present it to the Town Board , and try to decide ' the right approach for this , and ask the Town to appoint a few people or have a committee meet with a few members of the board . The reason why I asked Gary is from his experience what is the best way to present this to the Town Board . - - - obviously , they are not going to pass it in just one night . What is your suggestion on how to ahead with this ? Evans : Many feel that the Planning Board . needs a friend on the Town Boarda An advocate whom - - who goes to the meetinATs ~ - listens to members of the opposition . The main thing to - ~ ~ - Town Board public hearing and . we are sure of what they have and don ' t . The method to have is - to have at least one or two members who are very familiar with this . ~ - I have- - - to . do to convince an entire Town Board - - - have not been clear about the whole issue , ~ . - - - - Another thing that we found useful is a summary of the ordinance . 1 J pg • 2 . Evans ( continue ) - = - - • You can do a complete summary in three or . four pages. Totman : Only summarizes in ' three to four pages what is in fifteen to , twenty pages , .brings up the highpoints , makes sense . Evans : I . don ' t know what the Town Board would be interested in doing , but- - - does not require you to have a hearing . - - - Town Board there ' s no limit of publi.c , hearings - - - - - they just leave it right there in that - big - book Raymond : They can - take as long as they want ? . Evans . - - - - - - - - at least two years ago and haven ' t done anything . Totman : A specific town? Evans : That of Trumansburg have not come back . - - - - - - - - - I think it is important for you to appoint . and throughly know what you want to do . Totman : I don ' t feel we will really have a problem , the Town Board asked us to do this . I think we are behind schedule , maybe we ' have not been doing enought . - - - - - - not up to . us to pick the committee . From what you are saying , we might askthem to pick a committee to meet with us . , Evans : - - - - - - should have . a three to four page summary , maybe sections one to two , and know them perfectly well , paragraph by paragraph . Totman : - give the people a feel of what is going on . Evans : A public hearing is a wonderful way to let some of your. feelings be known . Raymond : Whether to the subject or not . Totman : - - What has your role been in the past year at working on our ordinance to be presented to the Town Board and you are available to. have people ask questions . Evans : - - - - there is - alot of who will think that the ordinance was made up downtown and brought - up and sold to y.ou . Totman : - - - - this room was jam- packed . Payne : The first one . Totman : - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I don ' t think we have this problem , in my _ opinion , what we have done is made it better and understandable to the people in the committee - - - - - - - - - - - get an update to the Town Board and to the attorney . - - deesn ' t , meet again until the 17 of December , which is too late . Are you in your office at night ? r pgo 3 Evans : Afraid not . - - - you might leave your copy with me . Totman : I will give you my copy topight . . Make two copies , give one to the attorney and one to the Town supervisor . MacNeil : How about copies for the Town Board , easier or what ? Evans : By copies , I mean Xeroxed . Something like this can be six to eight dollars for a copy . Totman : Give one to Teresa , and let her decide whather to get copies for the Board - - expensive or whether they will work off the summary . - - - I ' m not sure of -the exact date - - - public hearing held at Dryden High School - - - - - - -they had to have police protection , it got so bad - - - - - Planning Board gave it to the Town Board - - - they changed it and made it stricter . - - - Everyone of them ran for term - - - - . - - - - - - - - - - - They did mome real shady things - - took sentences and took out full page ads in the pa.per . ' Took a piece of the sentence and made it the complete reversal . When the second ordinance went . up in 1972 - - - we all agreed - - public hearing . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - We really didn ' t have any trouble getting our ordinance passed . Anything you want clarified here , now is the time to do it . MacNeil : I missed the last one . Totman : Did Don give you the sheet ? Payne : No , I . didn ' t mention it to him either . Raymond : Did Teresa get to you about underground housing? Totman : Yes , she mentioned it the other night . Evans : I ' m not sure it is any problem at all . Raymond : I couldn ' t find underground housing . Totman : I think somewhere in our ordinance or all ordinances , you can not build a cellar and live in it unless housing is built within a year . - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I think this is what Teresa was talking '. about . Payne : - - - - - - - - - underground house and five years later build a house on top . What are . we going to consider ? Evans : The only - - - - underground is the rooms , but you need a certificate . Raymond : I thought I saw one on Rt . 90 , the hollow down through on Kinney Gulf Road . - - - - - - - - built into a bank . i Evans : Zoning- - - - - - - - - would take care of this - - - - - to residential building . Section 202 Zoning Compliance would do this . This is in the Aopendix 2 . page 4 Totman : What part ? Evans : Whole section pertains - - - - - - - - I would - - - - - - - if it were applied to everything . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - MacNeil : But - - - - it from what we have , even though it maintains its own plumbing and sanitation . Evans : The reason I have a look of horror on my face is that yours is different from mine . It already applies in Section 202 . 2 earlier . - - - - - - section takes care of tt . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Raymond : What permits the town to - - - - - - that is the person will make it whether underground or basements or - - - - Evans ; You rely on what - - - - - - when applies for his certificate . Totman : 204 . 1 - - - - - - - - has to deal with whether the sump floor is - - - - - - - - - - = or put a roof on his underground home . Teresa has asked this question . I gather someone has asked her the rules and regulations . There are a lot of hillsides in Groton . Raymond : You can also build earth embankments . - - - - - - - - - Evans $ - - - friends have a house , looks like two stories , but is actually three stories. Built with the side facing south . Both sides . from the road looks two stories . You look at it below and it looks like a chimney . , Frankly , I think we are going to see a lot of the people seeing the benefits of having a house that is two to three sides built into a hill . Totman : For Example , my son built an aprtment in the basement- - - doesn ' t have to turn the heat on- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - insulation is all just from what he gets Evans : This is an example of something you might be ready for at a public hearing . Totman : are we all set - - - - 202 . 4 to take care of it ? Raymond : Takes care of it already . MacNeil : I think it ' s fine . Totman : Reason I am doing this ; is that I hate to bring Gary all the way over here for a half hour or so . - - - = -• - - - - - - - - we have to make sure of what we are presenting to them . . MacNeil:: I think it ' s very good . Totman : Gary will take my books and. call me . I will pick' it up . \ I will take two extra - - - - - -• - and bring it up to Teresa for suggestions _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ what might be a good way to approach it . The second meeting J page 5 Totman ( cor_tinue ) : is the last Monday night . Payne : Got to be ready then9 t but I will expec to - - - - - - - and let them decide : Totmani . No , - - - - - - - - - rather than hand it out , " Here you are . - I -will _ _ _ _ - to the meeting Monday night . We ca.n ' t - - - - - until then . - - • Evans : Reasonable thing to do at this time . Totman : Any else have anything else ? I will get back -tO you , Gary . - - - MacNeil : May we have a copy of the summary ? Totman : When do you think you will have the summary made up ? ' Evans : There will be copies by- - - - - - Totman : Will be the ;' . of December ? MacNeil : one day before ' our next meeting? Totman : The next meeting is the tenth , that will be good . Raymond $ Good. timing . Totman : Be good to have done so - - - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ be nice it - - - - appointed couple or three for a meeting . Evans : As soon as it ' s finished , I will let you know . Totman : Anything else ? J . MacNeil motioned that the meeting be adjourneds 45 p , mDo Payne second , and carried . Meeting adjourned Respectfully submitted , G 4" pg . 6 Robinson : Alot of these have southern exposure , not really underground . They are on a hill . Bucko : One big concrete - - - built on top of a pole - - - - - - Robinson : Environmental danger to anyone who walks underneath . Totman : - - - - - - - - - many - things happen , the people are going to build and no matter what Board says . Bucko : Are you saying things you know - - - - - - - - for permit ? Totman : You hear some talk , people don ' t report it - - - - . Bucko : Bob . makes a circle around the town . I get alot of - - - - - - gives it to Teresa. - - - - - - Bob doesn ' t see . - - -: - - - you know of something can be - - - - - - - - . Rankin : People should tell bim . Bucko : I called him up - - - - - - - Totman : Alot of people are afraid their name might get sent back . People question certain things , " I am not going to get involoved . " Bucko : - - - - get involved . - in,, - - - -make an anonymous pnbne call . Rankin : - - - - - - - should take a drive over in Lansing . Totman : Much better off than Lansing . Robinson : Groton is - - - - - - - - Bucko : - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - the guy doesn ' t comply with the rules . Rankin : People do as they damn please , always welfare people . Bucko : This one is on welfare . Rankin : Get in the worst trouble . - - - - ,,,, sides withthem . Like I said before we have things - - ~ . - gight along . - - - - - - - - - - - - have to . be more strict . Totman : Anthing else ? - - - - - give Teresa and Bin a chance to go through the book . Probably what you should do is to have printed. - - - - three books . I think he was worried about the cost . Bucko : How many pages ? Totman : I don ' t know , So we may leave this here . Each have Mi•s . Hahn copy it for us . Bucko : 1 will study this . Pg • 7 Totman : What we would like is to have the , Town Board go over this - - - - - - . Robinson : Go over a section , change it . Totman : Second Wednesday of each month . Meet ahead of time go - - - - we don ' t know how else to present it . Should be more - - = - - - - - - - - . Robinson : I think awful expensive this way . Take it , pass it around . We make one extra copy . Totman : This is the original copy . Robinson : Keep that one here . - - - - - - - - - people to digest it . Totman : They should look at. Robinson * It will. take . months . Bucko : You are going to have to sit down- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - . Payne : What you have got to get into is these sections in the book . Rankin : As they are - - - - - Raymond : Print on both sides the page . Totman : What ' s here - - - = copy printed up . Unless you want two . Robinson : - - - - - - - - - Bucko : - - - - = - - - - - - - - not only will your people have to answer but Town Board has to answer every approval and why they are . Totman : Before the public hearing , they should be - - - what is in it . - - - - - -.- -you ' ve got to supply information . Payne : Like we did - - = - - - Totman : When you have these you have - - - - and copies for. everybody - - trouble with public hearings . Anyone who goes through the - ordinance - - hesitate , some don ' t ordinances - - - - - - - - better for the people . - - - - - - - - - -will agree once looked over . Robinson : I ' think if . someone new in town knows what they can and can ' t do , right ? Totman : Right . Robinson : Most people from the city area , when they move in , they come in , they want to know the rules . Here our town has this information . Totman :. Tt ' s what they grew up with . - - - - common for most people . - - - - - the first. question is what is allowed and what is not . 1 r • Pg . 8 Bucko : It has got to be studied . You will have to know it well and . people like Mr . - - - - - will say What does this mean? " Totman : I think where ' we stand from here . Robinson : - - - - meeting - - - - ? Payne : Still have meeting . Totman : Yes , still have our meeting , second Wednesday of every month . Robinson : You have one coming up ? Rankin : January 14 : Robinson : January 14 . I ' ll set down , look through it , give it to Verl , Verl looks through it , gives . it - to Frank , Frank looks through it - - - - - . Totman : Be an ideal time . Bucko : - - - _ _ _ _ _ _ � _ _ might cost you more . Rankin : Take you more than a month . Robinson : It sure will . Totman : - -- - - - - - - one copy of this , he will try to do another copy . Robinson : Get one copy , leave it here , someone could come in here and read it . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - � .. _ Totman : - - - - I ' ll try to gigure out time to do it . Totman : Is there anything else ? Robinson : We will try to work on it . Bucko : One thing . I will have to study is special permits . More than- - - - - - - - - . Totman : We found. - - - - in two places , we will have to correct -that . Bucko : All have to be condusive . Payne : This book is the only complete book we have . Totman : Some people missed the meeting , and are not completely • I ' • P .g 9 Totman : Is that all ? Robinson : Is Gary through working ? Totman : No , he will be glad to come to a meeting . Gary will come and be an advisor . Payne : - - - - - want a copy of this summary . Totman : I was very - - - - - - - - they don ' t have questions . Robinson : Not so . - - - - - - Totman : - - Board of Appeals approval of special permit . We don ' t even get that . i Robinson : To be perfectly honest , . I think when I was first around , I thought Planning Board. was low man on the totem pole . I went to New York to a Planning Board meeting and I was amazed at what the Board of Appeals was suppose to do . When I came back - - - - we are going to get together . I can ' t understand - - - - - - - - though , its the next' step to court . Their decisions are very important , so I think that we ' ll get together and work on this . Totman : The only we - - together was the Lewbro case . . Rankin : ghat a messeone of old Hick ' s ideas . Robinson : We ' ll go over this and everyone Iwill go over this . We all will have to work on this . Totman : Anything else ? I would. like to explain to you why you didn ' t get the minetes of the last meeting . You will have them as soon as she gets a typewriter . L . Raymond motioned that the meeting be adjourned . D . Payne second. , and carried . The meeting adjourned at 9 : 20 p . m . Respectfully submitted ,