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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980-04-23 y TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING Held in the Town Hall Groton , N . Y . Wednesday , April 23 , 1980 - 8 : 00 P . M . PRESENT : R . Gleason - Chairman G . Evans - County Planning Board G . Totman* J . MacNeil* D . . Payne* C . Twigg M . Adams L . Raymond — Vice Chairman* J . Bell - Recording Clerk - Denotes those present . In the absence of R . Gleason , R . Raymond called the meeting to order at 8 : 10 PM . . L . Raymond : Are th.ere ;any . corrections to the minutes of our last meeting ? If not , they -stand approved as written . G . Totman made a motion the minutes be approved as written which was seconded by J . MacNeil and motion carried . L . Raymond : Do we have any reports from anyone ? G . Evans : I think maybe I have a report . On Agricultural District No . 8 which includes part of Groton . We received notice by phone today that the DEC had certified Agricultural District No . 8 which means now that it will go into effect as soon as the County Board of Reps take action on it . R . Raymond : When do you expect that is going to be ? G . Evans : That ' s the hard part , - - if I had been awake at the switch it would have been on Monday it would have made the May 1st deadline but it turns out I was asleep . at the switch . Could have arranged for them to have ,a public hearing before the Monday night meeting , hold it before the deadline , but it ' s too late now so it appears the action will take place at their meeting on the 12th of May . L . Raymond : So the farmers in Groton in that district , - - the implication is if they want an agricultural . assessment they will have to act as independent applicants ? G . Evans : That ' s right , - - individual commitment and when it goes into effect their individual commitment is almost automatically translated . There ' s a small amount of paper work involved all of which I can take direct blame for . There ' s one other person who should have been thinking about this too but she didn ' t so that ' s the situation . . L . Raymond : How many in Groton had already applied for those independent assessments in previous years ? 1 - G . Evans : I have an idea around seven or eight . Some discussion was held on this by G . Evans , L . Raymond and others . L . Raymond : Any other reports ? Well , we might -as well move on here . Any old business that needs finishing up ? I can ' t think of any offhand . It occurs to me that the six-months for Roger ' s subdivision is going to be up or did he have until the lst .of June? I ' ve forgotten exactly what the date was now . I guess all we do is wait on that . D . Payne : It ' s up to him to make the move . L . Raymond : How about new business ? Any new developments around that we ought to be concerning ourselves with ? Roger didn ' t have any messages along that line ? G . Totman : No , . all she had was the key . L . Raymond : So I guess there ' s no news of new developments around town that may transpire . 0 . K . , election of officers comes next . Election of officers was held and the following officers were elected - George Totman , Chairman , with the assumption that Roger . Gleason doesn1t want to take the position for another year . L . Raymond for Vice -Chairman and Cecil Twigg as Secretary . . L . Raymond : The next item of business is consideration of a new member for the Planning Board to replace Mary Adams who has resigned . I assume the Town Board would like us to give them names for a new member to replace Mary . Does anyone have any suggestions ? D . Payne : About the only recommendation I would make is it probably should be somebody from another part of the Town . Right now we ' re sort of - - G . Totman : All from District 4 . D . . Payne : I think we should have representative from some other area of the Town . L . Raymond : So it should be -someone from the west part of the Town , then . I have one suggestion . Helen Lane , - - she also mentioned two other women from that area , - - a Mrs . Scheffler - and also a Mrs . . Doyle ® Both of these women have been associated with her at the Groton Health Care Center , G . Totman : Mrs . Doyle just resigned as Republican Party Chairman because she wanted more time to herself . They plan on travelling a lot . - 2 L . Raymond : As I understand it , someone from within the Village is not open to be . a candidate for the Town Planning Board , G . Totman : That would be foolish really . We have that problem on the Town Board , - - too many of them are from the Village . L . Raymond : Those are the only suggestions that I have . D . Payne : Maybe it would be a good idea to postpone this until our next meeting when Cecil is here . G . Totman : Well , if those people you mentioned wanted to be on the Planning Board I ' m sure Verl Rankin would know because he is a good friend of theirs . L . Raymond : Helen was the only one I talked to directly , she suggested the other two . But she said herself she would consider favorably an invitation to be on the Town Planning Board as she expects to be relieved of some of her duties at the Groton Health Care Center within the next month or so . Are there any other thoughts on this matter ? 0 . K . I guess that finishes that item of business if there aren ' t any other names . We ' ll wait until the next meeting to see if anyone else has names . . Item 8 on the agenda is apparently . -for our information that there will be a public hearing by the Town Board on May 5th on the suggestions we gave them . Is anyone planning to . attend that hearing ? It doesn ' t say whether they want someone from the Planning Board present or not . I would assume they would want the chairman present but 'I ' m not sure . G . Totman : I hope they have copies of what they propose to change so I can go over them . I ' ll have to talk with Teresa . L . Raymond : Wait -.a minute , - -Roger is technically still chairman until our next meeting the 28th of May so I can 't think : of anything in relation to that . G . Totman : No , I think we had better get on with Gary , - - it ' s a quarter to 9 already . G . Evans : I ' m on? 0 . K . One of the things I threatened to do at all of these meetings was to share with you some of the insights I have gained at meetings with other town planning boards and that is what I want to start with if I may , . and that is in the interminable process of working on the ordinance with the Town of Danby one of the objections people have is it ' s too big . They are reacting negatively to the bulk - - the number of pages and soon . The planning board members and the Board of Appeals members ,are .adamant about it , - - they say the reason these words are there is because we need them , - -we have to have the guidelines step by step so anybody will know what to do . 3 - G . Evans : - It appears there was an impasse there but someone suggested why not take the regulation parts and procedure parts and separate them so if you need to someone could just get the regulations and not have to have the whole thing that includes special per - mit procedures and that sort of thing that they aren ' t interested in , . and that this might make the whole thing a little more palat - able and .so we are in the process of doing that there and let me show you what your ordinance might look like if ; the same .thing were done here . (Mr . Evans passed out copies to all present . ) Now the idea is there are regulations and there is an adminis - trative supplement . _ : Technically it ' s all part of the zoning ordinance . It ' s all adopted , - - it all has the force of law . The difference is that when someone comes in and says they want the zoning ordinance you can say do you want just the regulations or the whole package on everything and if they want the regulations you can hand them something like this . If they want the whole thing you can hand them something like that . You may not see this as a problem here . I ' m just - showing it to you in the event that you might see it as a problem . It does have the virtue of being separable . We really haven ' t discussed this sort of issue at all so I don ' t know if you feel it ' s a problem or not but the way we ' re moving now the text of the ordinance is just about going to double in bulk I would say and this would be a technique for cutting off that one particular kind of objection . G . Totman : I can see where it might be more acceptable to the Town Board and also because ultimately they are going to make the final decision on whether we are going to make any changes or not and they are the ones that have to present it to the . Town at a public hearing . I would think they could understand it better and feel more com- fortable if they could just hand out the regulations . Most people don ' t want to see the whole thing , - -only what pertains to them . L . Raymond : I ' m in favor of any procedure that would make the regulations easier to understand by` a general member of the public here in .the Town of Groton and it does seem , perhaps , by separating them out in the manner you describe that would be a move in the right direction . G . Evans : O . K . , - - if you would like me to , from this point forward , I will proceed as though we ' re going to use an outline like this and make adjustments as necessary . Some discussion was held on this by -all . G . Evans : At the next meeting one of the things that I said I would do is to work on this motion of an additional district . The question has come up from time to time as to whether the three districts in the present ordinance are enough . The problem has been there was some dissidence on the part in McLean and on 222 both being in the same category but radically different areas so this sent me - 4 G . Evans : rooting around in things like this . This is the 1971 General Development Plan for the Town and Village of Groton and so far as I know nothing supersedes this? G . Totman : That ' s right . G . Evans : On page 101 is this development map plan for the Town of Groton and if you have your zoning map handy and pull it out you will see there are some differences as to . what is suggested here and what is on the zoning map which was adopted . I have no idea why or the reasons for these changes . G . Totman : What changes are you talking about? G . Evans : This designation here - - on the present zoning map it extends out another mile . G . Totman : O . K . , - - the reason behind that is the medium intensity and to make land available for commercial use . They wanted to try to develop that sort of a trend . D . . Payne : But that land is not available . It ' s all farm land . G . Totman : Some day it might be though . . Some discussion was held on this by all . G . Evans : The suggestion that was made at the last meeting is the north side of 222 from the Village to Lick Street �be in some kind of designation which would welcome low intensity industrial - - your heavier gauge commercial development and so on and yet it ' s not appropriate for downtown McLean . On this map you see the indication in downtown McLean and this area are the same . Other differences between this and the present zoning map is an area of low intensity development here - - Groton City and I think a somewhat larger area here than is on the zoning map . It ' s an area around Peruville in that designation . J . MacNeil : Yes , G . Evans : If we are to look back to this map for guidance the changes that would be made in the zoning map would be an addition of some low intensity here - - an expansion of it around here - - this is about right here , isn ' t it ? D . Payne : Yes , G . Evans : 0 . K . and then in response to the concerns expressed by this Board about the difference between these two here I have just done a preliminary sketching of two different kinds of zoning districts here . The one that is shown here is shown in green on my map which I have called low intensity industrial district . I don ' t know what you really prefer to call - it . I ' m not sure that its name is all that important but what I have here - - I think the - 5 - i G . Evans : thing to do at this point is to look at the paragraphs on intent . In this group there ' s a section 601 . 1 , 601 . 2 , 601 . 3 , 601 . 4 and the first paragraph of each of those sections is intent . 601 . 1 and 601 . 2 .I haven ' t done anything to but 601 . 3 I have ad- justed a little bit -and 601 . 4 I wrote from scratch and I would like to get some idea as to whether this captures what you feel is needed , if anything is needed . (Mr . Evans passed out Article 6 District Regulations to all present . ) The Planning Board members studied the handout . G . Evans : In the intent section 601 . 3 - medium intensity - - I oriented this I a little bit more directly to the hamlet or existing hamlet centers to protect existing development . Once they are predominantly residential but here a variety of - - - are appropriate and so on . J . MacNeil : I think this is excellent . G . Evans : It ' s a little more restrictive than I think the present district has . On the other hand the new district in Section 604 - - G . Totman : 604 is what you have green on the map there ? G . Evans : That ' s right . J . MacNeil : Is this predominantly farms in this area on the north side? D . Payne : Yes . L . Raymond : There are some small residential lots in there . Some discussion was hend on this by all . G . Evans : Let me ask a series of questions all related here . Do you think that this kind of district that is designed to protect an exist - ing hamlet area is applicable in Peruville , Groton City and West Groton? Do you think it ' s applicable at . all ? G . Totman : Probably it would be better to ask the people that live in that area . Groton City is all farm land with no businesses whatsoever . Those people I feel would rather not have anything moving in there . . West Groton doesn ' t have anything there - - absolutely nothing . They have a church and a grange hall . G . Evans : Do you think low intensity designation would be more appropriate for both of them? D . Payne : Yes , G . Totman : I would say yes - - Peruville there might be room , - -I ' m not sure . I would say the same thing for West Groton but Peruville I don ' t know . 6 - G . Evans : It seems to me , - - the few times I ' ve been through there , - - it ' s pretty well residential and down here on 38 there ' s a cluster that seems to be non-residential . G . Totman : What the Town Board keep talking about is to try and make areas to extend out farther so if someone would want to move in they wouldn ' t have to go through the process of the Board of Appeals and that sort of thing because :as ', I understand it if you ' re following the plan of the County these are areas you should try to develop industry in - - that sort of a zone . G . Evans : Yes , , anything which needs public utilities ought to be built where they already are . G . Totman : And I hear from Teresa all the time that we have to develop more land for that type of activity . G . Evans : Do you see any sign of an increase in that sort of activity ? G . Totman : I don ' t know . Back when we were first planning this thing you did have predicted - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - in future build- ing up here . Some discussion was held on this by all . G . Evans : Yes , definitely these kinds of developments should take place where water and sewer is available and right near by . I would suggest with respect to this business here that this is not the place to look - - Route 38 coming out of Groton . There ' s a steep slope on the west and close to the Owasco Inlet on the east and there are quite a few houses . It ' s well established . I ' m not familiar with this other area at all . J . MacNeil : It ' s the same thing . G . Evans : What about the Elm Street area ? L . Raymond : That ' s residential like out to Lick Street , Pretty good residential . G . Totman : It would have to be a business that doesn ' t depend on travellers because the only travel it gets is to and from work . L . Raymond : From Lick Street up to the Rod and Gun Club it ' s kind of open through there . There ' s one farm on the right if I recall . J . MacNeil : How about the area between the Catholic Church and Munson ' s Auction area ? Is there anything in there ? Do you think it would be worth - - G . Totman : Why don ' t we think about West Groton and Groton City ? Do you want to leave that in low intensity ? J . MacNeil : I would think Peruville - should be designated the same as McLean . G . Totman : But I think it should be extended to the corner . - 7 - L ^ G . Evans : At the next meeting I ' ll bring an .enlarged map of this area and this area so we can look at it in more detail . J . MacNeil : I think someone could put in a grocery store or something of that type on that corner . It would be a fairly good place . G . Totman : Do you have maps that are like this that don ' t have the agricul- tural districts on them? G . Evans : Oh , sure . G . Totman : Can we get one or two of them ? G . Evans : Do you want them in color or black and white ? G . Totman : What do you mean in color ? G . Evans : The contour lines are in brown and the forest cover is indicated in green . G . Totman : Yes . D . Payne : Just talking about this - - you know it ' s hard to find places . L . Raymond : Like I said , - -I don ' t think most of the people in Groton want industries . . Some discussion was held on this by all . G . Evans : One of the reasons I think is going to become evident pretty soon , in the next couple of months , . there ' s some indication that the population growth in this area is levelling off . It ' s never been very rapid but even our low projections are too high . In fact , there ' s some indication that the County level - - - - - - - - - a few years ago is going down now . We will be getting prelimin- ary census results in June to get a look at what the - - - - - - - - - - - - are . G . Totman : Everything is going to slow down now until the interest rate goes down . J . MacNeil : Yes , L . . Raymond : It ' s 9 : 30 and I suspect people would like to wind this up . G . Totman : Did we all agree to cross this off in Groton City and make it yellow and make all of West Groton yellow? L . . Raymond : Yes . D . Payne : Yes . J . MacNeil : Yes . G . Evans : And George did a modification down here . L . Raymond : What else do you have for us tonight , Gary ? Anything else ? - 8 - G . . Evans : I have a question and that is we ' re getting to the point now where we ' re going to be dealing with a lot of paper . I would suggest , at this point , that we work in a notebook format . That is to say , I think we all should have notebooks like this with dividers so we can work on individual sections and everybody have .them and . so on like that . This is just my bias . I work by notebook , - - other people work with paper clips or I don ' t know - - . I don ' t know how they do it . So if you would like me to I will put together a bunch of dividers with articles and maps and all that sort of stuff . G . Totman : That makes more sense . If we all have notebook and dividers in them we can open them up . and it makes it easier to work with . It ' s a good idea . G . Evans : I would be glad to purchase this whole shebang and just bring you a bill for it if you prefer or I ' ll furnish the dividers and you furnish the notebooks . G . Totman : I guess we would have to get permission from the Town Board to do this . We have some money but have to get their permission . How much do you think it would cost ? G . . Evans : Binders cost about $ 1 . 25 each . G . Totman : You ' re not talking over $ 15 . 00 ? G . Evans : No . G . Totman : I think they would go along with it . I ' ll talk to Teresa tomorrow and ask her . D . Payne : I don ' t think there ' ll be any problem . G . Totman : Even if there is we could divvy up ourselves and buy them . J . MacNeil : O . K . G . Evans : 0 . K . , - -I ' ll do it . L . Raymond : O . K . , - alright . Does .anyone have - any burning issues they have to get off their chests ? G . Totman : I think I ' ve had enough for one night . G . Totman moved the meeting be adjourned which was seconded by D . Payne and motion carried . The meeting adjourned at 20 to 10 PM . Respectfullyp submitted , � Jo ephine Bell 9 -