HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980-04-23 y
TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Held in the Town Hall
Groton , N . Y .
Wednesday , April 23 , 1980 - 8 : 00 P . M .
PRESENT : R . Gleason - Chairman G . Evans - County Planning Board
G . Totman*
J . MacNeil*
D . . Payne*
C . Twigg
M . Adams
L . Raymond — Vice Chairman* J . Bell - Recording Clerk
- Denotes those present .
In the absence of R . Gleason , R . Raymond
called the meeting to order at 8 : 10 PM .
. L . Raymond : Are th.ere ;any . corrections to the minutes of our last meeting ?
If not , they -stand approved as written .
G . Totman made a motion the minutes be approved
as written which was seconded by J . MacNeil
and motion carried .
L . Raymond : Do we have any reports from anyone ?
G . Evans : I think maybe I have a report . On Agricultural District No . 8
which includes part of Groton . We received notice by phone
today that the DEC had certified Agricultural District No . 8
which means now that it will go into effect as soon as the
County Board of Reps take action on it .
R . Raymond : When do you expect that is going to be ?
G . Evans : That ' s the hard part , - - if I had been awake at the switch it would
have been on Monday it would have made the May 1st deadline but
it turns out I was asleep . at the switch . Could have arranged
for them to have ,a public hearing before the Monday night
meeting , hold it before the deadline , but it ' s too late now so
it appears the action will take place at their meeting on the
12th of May .
L . Raymond : So the farmers in Groton in that district , - - the implication is
if they want an agricultural . assessment they will have to act
as independent applicants ?
G . Evans : That ' s right , - - individual commitment and when it goes into effect
their individual commitment is almost automatically translated .
There ' s a small amount of paper work involved all of which I can
take direct blame for . There ' s one other person who should have
been thinking about this too but she didn ' t so that ' s the situation .
. L . Raymond : How many in Groton had already applied for those independent
assessments in previous years ?
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G . Evans : I have an idea around seven or eight .
Some discussion was held on this by G .
Evans , L . Raymond and others .
L . Raymond : Any other reports ? Well , we might -as well move on here .
Any old business that needs finishing up ? I can ' t think
of any offhand . It occurs to me that the six-months
for Roger ' s subdivision is going to be up or did he have
until the lst .of June? I ' ve forgotten exactly what the date
was now . I guess all we do is wait on that .
D . Payne : It ' s up to him to make the move .
L . Raymond : How about new business ? Any new developments around that
we ought to be concerning ourselves with ? Roger didn ' t
have any messages along that line ?
G . Totman : No , . all she had was the key .
L . Raymond : So I guess there ' s no news of new developments around town
that may transpire .
0 . K . , election of officers comes next .
Election of officers was held and the following
officers were elected - George Totman , Chairman ,
with the assumption that Roger . Gleason doesn1t
want to take the position for another year .
L . Raymond for Vice -Chairman and Cecil Twigg as
Secretary .
. L . Raymond : The next item of business is consideration of a new member
for the Planning Board to replace Mary Adams who has resigned .
I assume the Town Board would like us to give them names for
a new member to replace Mary . Does anyone have any suggestions ?
D . Payne : About the only recommendation I would make is it probably should
be somebody from another part of the Town . Right now we ' re sort
of - -
G . Totman : All from District 4 .
D . . Payne : I think we should have representative from some other area of
the Town .
L . Raymond : So it should be -someone from the west part of the Town , then .
I have one suggestion . Helen Lane , - - she also mentioned two
other women from that area , - - a Mrs . Scheffler - and also a Mrs .
. Doyle ® Both of these women have been associated with her at
the Groton Health Care Center ,
G . Totman : Mrs . Doyle just resigned as Republican Party Chairman because
she wanted more time to herself . They plan on travelling a
lot .
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L . Raymond : As I understand it , someone from within the Village is not
open to be . a candidate for the Town Planning Board ,
G . Totman : That would be foolish really . We have that problem on the
Town Board , - - too many of them are from the Village .
L . Raymond : Those are the only suggestions that I have .
D . Payne : Maybe it would be a good idea to postpone this until our next
meeting when Cecil is here .
G . Totman : Well , if those people you mentioned wanted to be on the Planning
Board I ' m sure Verl Rankin would know because he is a good friend
of theirs .
L . Raymond : Helen was the only one I talked to directly , she suggested the
other two . But she said herself she would consider favorably
an invitation to be on the Town Planning Board as she expects
to be relieved of some of her duties at the Groton Health Care
Center within the next month or so .
Are there any other thoughts on this matter ? 0 . K . I guess that
finishes that item of business if there aren ' t any other names .
We ' ll wait until the next meeting to see if anyone else has names .
. Item 8 on the agenda is apparently . -for our information that there
will be a public hearing by the Town Board on May 5th on the
suggestions we gave them . Is anyone planning to . attend that
hearing ? It doesn ' t say whether they want someone from the
Planning Board present or not . I would assume they would want
the chairman present but 'I ' m not sure .
G . Totman : I hope they have copies of what they propose to change so I can
go over them . I ' ll have to talk with Teresa .
L . Raymond : Wait -.a minute , - -Roger is technically still chairman until our
next meeting the 28th of May so I can 't think : of anything in
relation to that .
G . Totman : No , I think we had better get on with Gary , - - it ' s a quarter to
9 already .
G . Evans : I ' m on? 0 . K .
One of the things I threatened to do at all of these meetings was
to share with you some of the insights I have gained at meetings
with other town planning boards and that is what I want to start
with if I may , . and that is in the interminable process of working
on the ordinance with the Town of Danby one of the objections
people have is it ' s too big . They are reacting negatively to the
bulk - - the number of pages and soon . The planning board members
and the Board of Appeals members ,are .adamant about it , - - they say
the reason these words are there is because we need them , - -we have
to have the guidelines step by step so anybody will know what to do .
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G . Evans : - It appears there was an impasse there but someone suggested why
not take the regulation parts and procedure parts and separate
them so if you need to someone could just get the regulations
and not have to have the whole thing that includes special per -
mit procedures and that sort of thing that they aren ' t interested
in , . and that this might make the whole thing a little more palat -
able and .so we are in the process of doing that there and let me
show you what your ordinance might look like if ; the same .thing
were done here .
(Mr . Evans passed out copies to all present . )
Now the idea is there are regulations and there is an adminis -
trative supplement . _ : Technically it ' s all part of the zoning
ordinance . It ' s all adopted , - - it all has the force of law . The
difference is that when someone comes in and says they want the zoning
ordinance you can say do you want just the regulations or the whole
package on everything and if they want the regulations you can hand
them something like this . If they want the whole thing you can
hand them something like that . You may not see this as a problem
here . I ' m just - showing it to you in the event that you might see
it as a problem . It does have the virtue of being separable . We
really haven ' t discussed this sort of issue at all so I don ' t know
if you feel it ' s a problem or not but the way we ' re moving now
the text of the ordinance is just about going to double in bulk
I would say and this would be a technique for cutting off that
one particular kind of objection .
G . Totman : I can see where it might be more acceptable to the Town Board and
also because ultimately they are going to make the final decision
on whether we are going to make any changes or not and they are
the ones that have to present it to the . Town at a public hearing .
I would think they could understand it better and feel more com-
fortable if they could just hand out the regulations . Most people
don ' t want to see the whole thing , - -only what pertains to them .
L . Raymond : I ' m in favor of any procedure that would make the regulations
easier to understand by` a general member of the public here in
.the Town of Groton and it does seem , perhaps , by separating
them out in the manner you describe that would be a move in
the right direction .
G . Evans : O . K . , - - if you would like me to , from this point forward , I will
proceed as though we ' re going to use an outline like this and
make adjustments as necessary .
Some discussion was held on this by -all .
G . Evans : At the next meeting one of the things that I said I would do is to
work on this motion of an additional district . The question has
come up from time to time as to whether the three districts in
the present ordinance are enough . The problem has been there was
some dissidence on the part in McLean and on 222 both being in
the same category but radically different areas so this sent me
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G . Evans : rooting around in things like this . This is the 1971 General
Development Plan for the Town and Village of Groton and so far
as I know nothing supersedes this?
G . Totman : That ' s right .
G . Evans : On page 101 is this development map plan for the Town of Groton
and if you have your zoning map handy and pull it out you will
see there are some differences as to . what is suggested here and
what is on the zoning map which was adopted . I have no idea
why or the reasons for these changes .
G . Totman : What changes are you talking about?
G . Evans : This designation here - - on the present zoning map it extends
out another mile .
G . Totman : O . K . , - - the reason behind that is the medium intensity and to
make land available for commercial use . They wanted to try
to develop that sort of a trend .
D . . Payne : But that land is not available . It ' s all farm land .
G . Totman : Some day it might be though .
. Some discussion was held on this by all .
G . Evans : The suggestion that was made at the last meeting is the north
side of 222 from the Village to Lick Street �be in some kind of
designation which would welcome low intensity industrial - -
your heavier gauge commercial development and so on and yet
it ' s not appropriate for downtown McLean .
On this map you see the indication in downtown McLean and this area
are the same . Other differences between this and the present
zoning map is an area of low intensity development here - - Groton
City and I think a somewhat larger area here than is on the zoning
map . It ' s an area around Peruville in that designation .
J . MacNeil : Yes ,
G . Evans : If we are to look back to this map for guidance the changes that
would be made in the zoning map would be an addition of some
low intensity here - - an expansion of it around here - - this
is about right here , isn ' t it ?
D . Payne : Yes ,
G . Evans : 0 . K . and then in response to the concerns expressed by this Board
about the difference between these two here I have just done a
preliminary sketching of two different kinds of zoning districts
here . The one that is shown here is shown in green on my map
which I have called low intensity industrial district . I don ' t
know what you really prefer to call - it . I ' m not sure that its
name is all that important but what I have here - - I think the
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G . Evans : thing to do at this point is to look at the paragraphs on intent .
In this group there ' s a section 601 . 1 , 601 . 2 , 601 . 3 , 601 . 4 and
the first paragraph of each of those sections is intent .
601 . 1 and 601 . 2 .I haven ' t done anything to but 601 . 3 I have ad-
justed a little bit -and 601 . 4 I wrote from scratch and I would
like to get some idea as to whether this captures what you feel
is needed , if anything is needed .
(Mr . Evans passed out Article 6 District Regulations to
all present . )
The Planning Board members studied the handout .
G . Evans : In the intent section 601 . 3 - medium intensity - - I oriented this
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a little bit more directly to the hamlet or existing hamlet centers
to protect existing development . Once they are predominantly
residential but here a variety of - - - are appropriate and so on .
J . MacNeil : I think this is excellent .
G . Evans : It ' s a little more restrictive than I think the present district
has . On the other hand the new district in Section 604 - -
G . Totman : 604 is what you have green on the map there ?
G . Evans : That ' s right .
J . MacNeil : Is this predominantly farms in this area on the north side?
D . Payne : Yes .
L . Raymond : There are some small residential lots in there .
Some discussion was hend on this by all .
G . Evans : Let me ask a series of questions all related here . Do you think
that this kind of district that is designed to protect an exist -
ing hamlet area is applicable in Peruville , Groton City and West
Groton? Do you think it ' s applicable at . all ?
G . Totman : Probably it would be better to ask the people that live in that
area . Groton City is all farm land with no businesses whatsoever .
Those people I feel would rather not have anything moving in
there . . West Groton doesn ' t have anything there - - absolutely
nothing . They have a church and a grange hall .
G . Evans : Do you think low intensity designation would be more appropriate
for both of them?
D . Payne : Yes ,
G . Totman : I would say yes - - Peruville there might be room , - -I ' m not sure .
I would say the same thing for West Groton but Peruville I don ' t
know .
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G . Evans : It seems to me , - - the few times I ' ve been through there , - - it ' s
pretty well residential and down here on 38 there ' s a cluster
that seems to be non-residential .
G . Totman : What the Town Board keep talking about is to try and make areas
to extend out farther so if someone would want to move in they
wouldn ' t have to go through the process of the Board of Appeals
and that sort of thing because :as ', I understand it if you ' re
following the plan of the County these are areas you should try
to develop industry in - - that sort of a zone .
G . Evans : Yes , , anything which needs public utilities ought to be built where
they already are .
G . Totman : And I hear from Teresa all the time that we have to develop more
land for that type of activity .
G . Evans : Do you see any sign of an increase in that sort of activity ?
G . Totman : I don ' t know . Back when we were first planning this thing you
did have predicted - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - in future build-
ing up here .
Some discussion was held on this by all .
G . Evans : Yes , definitely these kinds of developments should take place
where water and sewer is available and right near by .
I would suggest with respect to this business here that this is
not the place to look - - Route 38 coming out of Groton . There ' s
a steep slope on the west and close to the Owasco Inlet on the
east and there are quite a few houses . It ' s well established .
I ' m not familiar with this other area at all .
J . MacNeil : It ' s the same thing .
G . Evans : What about the Elm Street area ?
L . Raymond : That ' s residential like out to Lick Street , Pretty good
residential .
G . Totman : It would have to be a business that doesn ' t depend on travellers
because the only travel it gets is to and from work .
L . Raymond : From Lick Street up to the Rod and Gun Club it ' s kind of open
through there . There ' s one farm on the right if I recall .
J . MacNeil : How about the area between the Catholic Church and Munson ' s
Auction area ? Is there anything in there ? Do you think it
would be worth - -
G . Totman : Why don ' t we think about West Groton and Groton City ? Do you
want to leave that in low intensity ?
J . MacNeil : I would think Peruville - should be designated the same as McLean .
G . Totman : But I think it should be extended to the corner .
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G . Evans : At the next meeting I ' ll bring an .enlarged map of this area and
this area so we can look at it in more detail .
J . MacNeil : I think someone could put in a grocery store or something of that
type on that corner . It would be a fairly good place .
G . Totman : Do you have maps that are like this that don ' t have the agricul-
tural districts on them?
G . Evans : Oh , sure .
G . Totman : Can we get one or two of them ?
G . Evans : Do you want them in color or black and white ?
G . Totman : What do you mean in color ?
G . Evans : The contour lines are in brown and the forest cover is indicated
in green .
G . Totman : Yes .
D . Payne : Just talking about this - - you know it ' s hard to find places .
L . Raymond : Like I said , - -I don ' t think most of the people in Groton want
industries .
. Some discussion was held on this by all .
G . Evans : One of the reasons I think is going to become evident pretty
soon , in the next couple of months , . there ' s some indication
that the population growth in this area is levelling off . It ' s
never been very rapid but even our low projections are too high .
In fact , there ' s some indication that the County level - - - - - - - - -
a few years ago is going down now . We will be getting prelimin-
ary census results in June to get a look at what the - - - - - - - - - - - -
are .
G . Totman : Everything is going to slow down now until the interest rate goes
down .
J . MacNeil : Yes ,
L . . Raymond : It ' s 9 : 30 and I suspect people would like to wind this up .
G . Totman : Did we all agree to cross this off in Groton City and make it
yellow and make all of West Groton yellow?
L . . Raymond : Yes .
D . Payne : Yes .
J . MacNeil : Yes .
G . Evans : And George did a modification down here .
L . Raymond : What else do you have for us tonight , Gary ? Anything else ?
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G . . Evans : I have a question and that is we ' re getting to the point now where
we ' re going to be dealing with a lot of paper . I would suggest ,
at this point , that we work in a notebook format . That is to say ,
I think we all should have notebooks like this with dividers so
we can work on individual sections and everybody have .them and . so
on like that . This is just my bias . I work by notebook , - - other
people work with paper clips or I don ' t know - - . I don ' t know how
they do it . So if you would like me to I will put together a
bunch of dividers with articles and maps and all that sort of
stuff .
G . Totman : That makes more sense . If we all have notebook and dividers in
them we can open them up . and it makes it easier to work with .
It ' s a good idea .
G . Evans : I would be glad to purchase this whole shebang and just bring
you a bill for it if you prefer or I ' ll furnish the dividers
and you furnish the notebooks .
G . Totman : I guess we would have to get permission from the Town Board to
do this . We have some money but have to get their permission .
How much do you think it would cost ?
G . . Evans : Binders cost about $ 1 . 25 each .
G . Totman : You ' re not talking over $ 15 . 00 ?
G . Evans : No .
G . Totman : I think they would go along with it . I ' ll talk to Teresa tomorrow
and ask her .
D . Payne : I don ' t think there ' ll be any problem .
G . Totman : Even if there is we could divvy up ourselves and buy them .
J . MacNeil : O . K .
G . Evans : 0 . K . , - -I ' ll do it .
L . Raymond : O . K . , - alright . Does .anyone have - any burning issues they have to
get off their chests ?
G . Totman : I think I ' ve had enough for one night .
G . Totman moved the meeting be adjourned which was
seconded by D . Payne and motion carried .
The meeting adjourned at 20 to 10 PM .
Respectfullyp submitted ,
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Jo ephine Bell
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