HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979-11-27 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD DECEMBER MEETING
Held at the Town Hall , Groton , N . Y .
Tuesday - November 2T, 1979
8 : 05 P . M .
PRESENT : R . Gleason - Chairman*
L . Raymond - Vice -Chairman*
D . Payne*
J . MacNeil*
C . Twigg*
M . Adams *
G . Totman Josephine Bell - Recording Clerk*
- Denotes those present .
Mr . Gleason passed out copies of the minutes of the
November 13th meeting to all present .
R . Gleason: Are there any additions or corrections ?
L . Raymond : On page 1 at the first place where I am quoted after the word
" understanding" I think it would make more sense if you added
" of the regulations " instead of " on the Board" .
Then on page 3 the second place where I am quoted it says
"here that one since" - - I think it would make more sense
to say "here that the one that since" .
R . Gleason: Are there any additional corrections ? May I hear a motion for
approval of the minutes ?
L . Raymond : I make a motion the minutes be accepted as corrected .
J . MacNeil : I second the motion .
Motion carried .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . , - - the minutes are approved . Are there any reports ?
I think at this point - on the subdivision preliminary sketch
hearing , I ' ll turn the meeting over to the Vice -Chairman , Mr .
Raymond .
L . Raymond : As Acting Chairman it seems that we have got to decide whether we
are going to approve the preliminary sketch and actually to classify
the subdivision .
J . MacNeil suggested the sketch requirements be gone
through step by step .
L . Raymond : 0 . K . - - here are the sketch requirements :
1 . Based on tax map or similar accurate map
2 . Not less than 1 -200 ' scale
3 . Entire tract on one sheet
C . Twigg : Yes .
- 1 -
L . Raymond : 4 . Location given .
C . Twigg : Yes ,
L . Raymond : 5 . Distance to nearest street intersection .
C . Twigg : Yes ,
L . Raymond : 6 . 7 . 8 and 9 . All existing structures , wooded areas , streams
and other significant physical features .
CO Twigg : Yes .
L . Raymond : 10 . Contours - not more than 10 ft . ( if topography significant . )
D . Payne : I don ' t see any .
J . MacNeil : 0 . K . it meets all these requirements .
L . Raymond : Yes , and the stream is on there that I found in my investigation
was classified .
J . MacNeil : The only thing significant is that right -of -way road and that is
shown .
L . Raymond : 11 - 12 : From most recent tax records the name of the owner and all
adjoining owners .
Roger these have to be on the sketch .
13 . Tax map supposed to have - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - on it .
C . Twigg : It ' s on there .
L . Raymond : 14 . Utilities available .
D . Payne : O . K .
L . Raymond : All streets (proposed , - - - - - - - - , built ) to Town specifications .
D . Payne : There aren ' t any .
L . Raymond : Put in the record that no new streets are proposed .
16 . Pattern of Lots ( including width and depth)
17 . Street layout .
18 . Recreation Areas .
19 . Drainage Systems .
20 . Sewage .
21 . Water Supply .
D . Payne : They are all alright .
L . Raymond : 22 . Restriction on land use .
23 . Easements on land .
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C
C . Twigg : Easements aren ' t on there .
R . Gleason : It ' s in the deed or something , - - the easements and so on , - - I
don ' t know .
L . Raymond : Let ' s look at what it says here : "All existing
restrictions on use of the land includin "
R . Gleason : It shows buried cable and power lines , - - that must be it .
CO Twigg : Alright , then we have it ,
L . Raymond : 24 . Covenants .
C . Twigg : O . K .
L . Raymond : 25 . Zoning Laws . We ' re supposed to check and see that the size
of the lot complies with our zoning law .
D . Payne : It does .
L . Raymond : Then the General Regulations must be met .
J . MacNeil : I. think we should take it one step at a time . I think we should
make a motion that we approve the - 'sketch requirements .
CO Twigg : With the possible request for the names of the owners across the
street , - - should we put that in?
Id
L . Raymond : If we are going to go through the whole thing I don ' t agree be -
cause we have to go through the Subdivision Requirements to see
that it meets them .
Mr . Raymond read aloud all the subdivision regulation
requirements .
C . Twigg : I make a motion that Mr . Gleason ' s preliminary plan
be approved .
M . Adams : I second the motion .
L Ra
ymond *d • A ymon motion has been made and seconded that the sketch be approved - -
everyone in favor say Aye - - anyone in disagreement ? The
motion has been passed and unanimously approved . '
So I guess the next step is this one here - - the classification .
D . Payne : I make a motion that this be classified as a minor subdivision .
J . MacNeil : I second the motion .
L . Raymond : Any discussion; Everyone in favor Aye . Anyone in disagreement ?
The motion has been made , seconded and passed that this is a
minor subdivision and we have already completed the Environmental
Assessment Form for it at our November 13th meeting .
So , after this Roger has 6 months to submit his plat .
- 3 -
L . Raymond : Are we finished with everything that pertains to the Gleason Sub -
division? Is there any more discussion on this ? "
D . Payne : No .
L . Raymond : 0 . K . I will turn the meeting back to the chairman for the
regular Planning Board business .
Mr . Raymond passed out xerox copies of tax parcels in
the Town of Groton for the Planning Board ' s information ,
Some discussion was held on this by all present . ",
R . Gleason: Gary Evans apparently isn ' t going to be here tonight and we did
not send an agenda out this time so maybe that ' s' why . 0 . K . is
there any old business ? Is there any new busine''ss ?
'l
0 . K . since there ' s no new business , we will proceed to
continue to discuss the Subdivision and Zoning Regulations ,
Now , Lyle , do you recall enough of what Gary said to fill
Don in ?
J . Bell : Mr . Evans passed out xerox copies of what he talked about .
L . Raymond : 0 . K . , - -I have mine right here - - can I put this where everyone
can read this thing that Gary handed out? He explains here in
the minutes of the last meeting what some of the' terms here refer
to ,
R . Gleason: 0 . K . if we can get some concensus among the Board members here
as to how far we want to go in making the procedure for some of
these divisions that he is classifying - - like ' a rural residential
lot or rural land division . How far do we wantlto go in recommend -
ing the relaxing of the procedure ? I hope I ' m making myself clear .
What he ' s proposing , as I understand it , that for a rural land
division simply have the person who is doing it ; come and tell the
Planning Board he is going to do it and if there are no objections
he just does it and we don ' t have to go through ' any lengthy procedures
or anything . Now I have the feeling that thereGwill be some people
that won-' t think that ' s a good idea so we should, thrash it out a
little bit .
D . Payne : It would be a tremendous idea if everybody was honest !
i
A lengthy discussion was held on this by all ,
M . Adams : We ' ve sat here night after night for six months ,land you still can ' t
do anything with your property ! Lawyers could Help you better than
we did ! What have - we done ?
Some discussion was held on building violationsl' that nothing
has been done about .
D . Payne : 0 . K . , we ' re back to the same thing , -what ' s the point in having a
Planning Board ?
R . Gleason : This leaves a question that I have come to - - is our zoning ordinance
q g
and our Subdivision Regulations , - -are they enforceable ? Is the
reason they aren ' t doing anything because they don ' t want to or
because they aren ' t enforceable ?
- 4 -
D . Payne : They are enforceable .
Further discussion was held on this by all .
D . Payne : At some point in time the Town is going to have 'to realize that
these are going to have to be enforced or you can forget it -you aren ' t going to have a town .
C . Twigg : We have to protect the honest person like Roger . He isn ' t in
violation like Joe Hora is and we ' re penalizing him while Joe
Hora goes right along and they aren ' t enforcing it ,
R . Gleason: This is why I ' m wondering if we could make a procedure or a regula -
tion that is designed in such a way that a person doesn ' t get so
frustrated in trying to follow it through - - that can make it
easy enough for him to do it so he ' ll do it and , at the same time ,
have it tough enough if something really bad comes we have some
control over it . I don ' t know . It ' s a real can of worms as far
as I ' m concerned , I ' ve thought and thought about this thing and
come to the conclusion that it ' s going to have to be changed in
some way . This is what I ' m trying to get at - - a concensus here of
what way we want to go . I have the feeling that some would say
throw the whole damn thing out and some would say we have to have
something to work with and an ordinance to protect the town and the
people in it that want to have ordered growth .
A lengthy discussion was held on this by all ,
R . Gleason : Why don ' t you think about some of these things= - what I ' m trying
to get across is to have a regulation we can live with . One
that will fit our town ' s situations and not sombody else ' s city .
It ' s not a situation where one is going to be that much better
than the other . There are going to be problems either way .
What we ' re talking about is a trade -off . What we have to decide
is what ' s the trade -off ? Are we going to have some problems with
a . new method that we can deal with easier than what we already
have ?
D . Payne : In my opinion I think the people who have come in and tried to get
things done right would have come in anyways and the ones who have
avoided it certainly would still do so . That ' s my opinion . Maybe
Roger doesn ' t feel that way .
L . Raymond : What you ' re saying is they don ' t believe in any regulation at all ?
D . Payne : That ' s right ,
C . Twigg : But if it had teeth in it and they had to do it .
D . Payne : Do you agree with me or not ? How do you feel about it ?
R . Gleason : My personal feeling is , - -I always look at people until they prove
otherwise as being honest . 0 . K . but the law doesn ' t look at it
that way but technically we ' re innocent until proven guilty and I
always felt it ' s better public relations and better anything if
you can opt to try and give people the benefit of the doubt and make
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R . Gleason: it reasonably easier for them to comply with the regulations and
how exactly we -do it , or what we call it , I just don ' t care
but I do think the biggest thing is to get it written out in
a step by step procedure in which there are certain areas that
are relatively easy to take care of and one example would have
been the Wargo subdivision . Even in Dryden that would not have
been a subdivision . Now when you get to that point then the
question is - - in other words - - it ' s a rural land division .
Further discussion was held on this by all .
L . Raymond : I make a motion this meeting be adjourned .
D . Payne : I second the motion .
The meeting adjourned at 9 * 30 P . M .
The next meeting of the Planning Board will be held
on Tuesday night , January 8th , 1980 at 8 P . M .
Respectfully submitted ,
Jos hine ell Le- S�e
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11W,
GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING
Held in the Town Hall , Groton , N . Y .
Tuesday as November 27 , 1979 at 7 : 30 PM
PRESENT : L . Raymond an Acting Chairman*
D . Payne*
J . MacNeil *
C . Twigg* R . Gleason - Applicant *
M . Adams *
G . Totman J . Bell - Recording Clerk
- Denotes those present .
L . Raymond , Acting Chairman , waited until 7 : 50 P . M , before
opening the hearing to see if any members of the general
public would turn up . Since none did he then read the
Notice of Public Hearing on the application of Roger Gleason
which was published in the Journal and Courier the 21st of
November , 1979 , a copy of which is on file in the Town
Clerk ' s Office .
Mr . Gleason described his proposed subdivision and what
it would entail .
Since at the Groton Town Planning Board ' s November 13 , 1979
meeting Lyle Raymond , as Acting Chairman for that portion of
that meeting , had asked Mr . Gleason the required questions
and filled out the DEC Environmental Assessment form and
other members of the Planning Board asked Mr . Gleason many
questions that night pertaining to the subdivision regulations ,
no further questions were asked at this hearing .
D . Payne : I make a motion the public hearing be adjourned .
C . Twigg : I second the motion .
The hearing adjourned at 8 : 00 P . M .
Respectfully submitted ,
Jo ephine Bell