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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979-09-04 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING Held in the Town Hall , Groton , New York Tuesday - September 4 , 1979 8 : 00 P . M . PRESENT : R . Gleason - Chairman* L . Raymond - Vice -Chairman* C . Twigg - Secretary* J . MacNeil* D . Payne* G . Totman M . Adams J . Bell - Recording Clerk* * - Denotes those present . Mr . Gleason called the meeting to order . Co Twigg : Is Evans coming tonight ? R . Gleason: No , he couldn ' t come tonight . The minutes have been presented . Are there any additions or corrections ? If not , they stand approved as presented . I take it there are no reports outstanding at the present time ? The only report I have is that Mr . Evans will be unable to come tonight . Under new business - we have a minor subdivision on Clark Street Extension and since I ' m involved in it will excuse myself and turn the meeting over to Lyle Raymond . This is the information meeting . L . Raymond : I haven ' t gone through this so am not sure how I ' m supposed to proceed . This is supposed to be an information meeting ? R . Gleason : Well , yes but in the past we have sort of combined them where there are no complications or anything and I do have a request that you do hurry the thing because , as you will see , it ' s rather a minor minor one - - it ' s not going to be a large tract deal or anything . The subdivision is going to be on Clark Street Extension , - - it ' s location on the tax map is 16 : 1 - 18 . 1 . I think the easiest way is , - - it ' s near the corner of Clark Street and Lick Street , - - this is our tax map here . These are the subdivision maps right here , - - this is the linen copy so will set that one aside so we won ' t mark on it . This right here is McMasters ' - Doris and Don McMasters . C . Twigg : That ' s Clark Street there ? R . Gleason : Yes and this is Lick Street here . 1 - R . Gleason : What I ' ve done , - -this I purchased a year ago from Zubals . My son is living in the house and our intention is to transfer the house and a lot to him , - -O . K . L . Raymond : So that ' s number one . J . MacNeil : 0 . K . so this house is not this house ? R . Gleason : This is not involved directly with this subdivision . 0 . K . 0 . K . , - -I am deeding , to my son , this . I have sold to Mengels this lot and McMasters are acquiring 75 feet additional on the edge of their property . L . Raymond : So that takes up all of the land in between where the old house is , the present house and McMasters ' property with the addition they are buying . C . Twigg : Who ' s McMasters , - - is that the new house ? R . Gleason: Yes , he built a new one about four years ago , so he thought he would like a little bit more land . J . MacNeil : Is there an existing house there now ? C . Twigg : That ' s where Zubals were ? R . Gleason : Yes . There are 300 ft . there and Mengels are going to build there and there ' s 75 ft . for McMasters . L . Raymond : He ' s the one who ' s a professor at Cortland ? R . Gleason : Mengel , yes . L . Raymond : So each of these lots are going to be loosely about the same size and you have the rest of the farm left over here which you are retaining ? R . Gleason : Right . C . Twigg : What ' s the odd footage ? R . Gleason: I don ' t know why . I wanted these maps 10 days ago but just got them today -' and why they came up with this number I really haven ' t figured out . We had originally blocked it out very roughly . C . Twigg : I guess it don ' t make that much difference . L . Raymond : So from henceforth somebody is going to have that with so many odd feet on there and someone is going to ask how in hell did that happen ? J . MacNeil : Does that actually go anywhere ? R . Gleason : Yes , to give me a right of way . L . Raymond : There ' s also underground pipeline of Zubals . - 2 - R . Gleason: That doesn ' t show in there but guess I should have put that in there . L . Raymond : How come they ' don ' t show the sugar house ? R . Gleason : I don ' t know - - I just got these this afternoon . L . Raymond : Zubals put a . brand new sugar house in there and the pipeline that goes up into the woods . C . Twigg : I don ' t know why it isn ' t on the map . R . Gleason : I have no idea , - -will have to look that up . L . Raymond : He ' s been in business at least three years now . He built it after the zoning law was in effect . We built ours right after it was adopted and he wasn ' t in business then , - - I know that . J . MacNeil : Can you sell a lot any size you want here ? It doesn ' t have to have a 200 ft frontage ? R . Gleason : Well this is the thing , this will be attached . L . Raymond : Is that a lot or do you call it an attached parcel ? C . Twigg : You can sell any amount you want to , I would think . Where the trouble is going to come is if he tries to build a house there . L . Raymond : Actually if you can ' t sell little pieces like that it ' s unfair , because we have some that a house can ' t be put on and some time or other if we want to sell it to an adjoining property owner why shouldn ' t we ? It ' s no use to anyone but us or an adjoining property owner as an addition to their lot . J . MacNeil : It ' s taxed as ' a separate lot though . R . Gleason : 0 . K . , - - that ' s the subdivision . L . Raymond : So actually this is considered a subdivision if you ' re selling this piece off to someone else ? R . Gleason: Subdivision is any time you have more than one parcel so this is one and this is two and this would be three so according to the procedures - - L . Raymond : You have consulted the Health Department ? R . Gleason: They were in there and made a test in here for Mengels before we proceeded . At 8 : 30 P . M . Don Payne arrived and Mr . Gleason explained to him what his subdivision involves . L . Raymond : Supposedly we have to decide whether this is a major or minor and you were supposed to provide these maps 10 days before the meeting of the Board . - 3 - 4 R . Gleason : I just got the maps today . L . Raymond : So we really can ' t take any action on this . D . Payne : There ' s a thing down farther that says you can waive it . How - ever if the map isn ' t right it will have to be amended . Some discussion was held on this by all . R . Gleason : The frontages are right . J . MacNeil : I ' m sure they are but I just happened to notice that . C . Twigg : I don ' t see anything in here that requires the subdivider necessarily to have any - - R . Gleason : The Health Department has approved Mengels before . But this is an existing house with an existing septic system and everything and that is that and this is not going to be a lot so it ' s really only that one lot . C . Twigg : Maybe if we had some question in our mind as to whether - - L . Raymond : Do you have five copies ? R . Gleason: Yes , plus the linen one . L . Raymond : It says in 3 . 1 . 4 the public hearing should be held by the Planning Board within 45 days from the time of submission of the sketch or plat of the minor subdivision for approval and then it says in 3 . 2 . 5 public hearing shall be held by the Planning Board within 30 days . D . Payne : That ' s a major subdivision . L . Raymond : It doesn ' t say anything about major . C . Twigg : I read that too but thought it was too stupid a question to ask . L . Raymond : Maybe we had better revise these regulations . R . Gleason : You get approval of a minor subdivision at the time the application , fees and maps and so on are submitted . These are not supposed to be the official copies , these are sketch plans . CO Twigg : And then the Planning Board has to take action on it within 30 days . R . Gleason : Go back up here to 3 . 1 . 2 . (Mr . Gleason read this section aloud ) . Some discussion was held on this by all . J . MacNeil : I think we can classify it as a minor subdivision . L . Raymond : Alright will somebody make a motion we classify it as a minor - 4 - L Raymond : subdivision? : J . MacNeil made the motion that Mr . Gleason ' s application be classified as a minor subdivision and the motion was seconded by C . Twigg L . Raymond : Do we have any discussion on this ? C . Twigg : So you ' re going to check these out ? R . Gleason : I ' ll make sure they are checked out . C . Twigg : And' we ' re going to have to find out if we need Health Department approval . R . Gleason : Again , I don " t think you have to have that before the approval . C . Twigg : There ' s one place on about page 17 or 18 that said something about we were supposed to look at it in the light - - as to the effect of drainage and so on . R . Gleason : Right . L . Raymond : We have this other item here on minor subdivisions , - -we still have another 45 days after the hearing to approve , modify and so forth so , in other words , we will take into consideration the testimony at the hearing . In fact , we ' re pointing out things informally at this meeting that if we waited until after the hearing - - D . Payne : It says here it should be shown on the plat and signed by a licensed engineer . L . Raymond : Do you have your application , Roger ? R . Gleason : Here it is . D . Payne : See Article 5 - Documents to be submitted . C . Twigg : So then that does have to be on there . R . Gleason : Yes , but the question is what it has to say . D . Payne : I assume it ' s; there because it ' s a legal statement you would have agreed to and would probably be held liable for . L . Raymond : I assume there weren ' t any - - it says on page 33 - - are there any deed restrictions we should know about . R . Gleason : That ' s on there . The right of way on that one . L . Raymond : Are there any covered lines , - -oil pipe lines and so on? R . Gleason: Telephone line . L . Raymond : 0 . K . Do you want to accept this with the corrections he has made or have it resubmitted ? - 5 - .a J . MacNeil : What ' s our next step here ? L . Raymond : We did have a motion on the floor that we consider this to be a minor subdivision which Jim made and Cecil seconded . Are you satisfied , Don? D . Payne : Yes , L . Raymond : O . K . , I guess I am also . All in favor - - all against ? Motion carried unanimously . Now the other item of business is the one I mentioned a moment ago , - -are we satisfied with the sketch as submitted with the corrections Mr . Gleason is giving us orally tonight or do we want a resubmission with some of the data on there as we have been discussing ? C . Twigg : He know what he has to put on there , - - the only question is he questioned the Health Department approval . R . Gleason : It has to be on the map before it can be approved finally , - - don ' t have to have that until then as I understand it . L . Raymond : And the other corrections he is making now on a new application form regarding property owners and so on . D . Payne : You don ' t foresee any of this other going in the near future ? R . Gleason : No , this here is a swamp over here and a hill down from here so I don ' t see any anticipation . L . Raymond : You intend to use that as farmland for yourself ? R . Gleason : Yes , we ' re farming the rest of it . This field here I may drain and get another acre or so . It ' s really swampy . J . MacNeil : I make a motion we accept the sketch plan as presented provided various descriptions are checked out before the plat is presented . D . Payne : I second the motion . L . Raymond : 0 . K . we have a motion on the floor that the sketch plan presented by Mr . Gleason be accepted with the various corrections he has submitted tonight as far as the Planning Board ' s consideration is concerned . Is there any discussion? If not all in favor ? Anyone opposed ? Motion carried unanimously . So , I guess it stands approved , - - that we have accepted the sketch plan . And we have one other thing on his permit application and that is we have to waive the 10 day application period , because it says in the regulations to submit the sketches 10 days before to the clerk of the planning board and he didn ' t even do that . R . Gleason : If he had gotten . them->' to me., you would have had them in time . C . Twigg : You say this stream doesn ' t have to be on a minor ? D . Payne : It should be on the final plat . 1. , Raymond : I ' m not sure it has to be on the minor . J . MacNeil : It says giving descriptive data . Some discussion was held on this by all . R . Gleason : At any rate if you insist on them putting it in there they will have to be put there . If you don ' t think they are necessary they don ' t have to be . C . Twigg : As far as I ' m concerned it isn ' t necessary . J . MacNeil : No . L . Raymond : I don ' t think ,so either . It ' s not a classified stream? R . Gleason: No . J . MacNeil : If there ' s a stream running across there shouldn ' t make any difference anyway because the Public Health Department would have to approve it before anything was built on it and it would be up to the Health Department , L . Raymond : Yes , but they have nothing to do with the DEC laws . C . Twigg : I ' ll make a motion we waive the 10 day period . J . MacNeil : I second the motion . R . Rayjond : A motion has been made by Jim MacNeil and seconded by Cecil Twigg that we waive the 10 day waiting period . Do we have any discussion? All in favor ? Anyone against ? Motion carried unanimously . R . Gleason : You have to set a date for the public hearing and it has to be 5 days after publication . It was . decided to schedule the hearing for the 18th at 7 * 30 PM with a special Planning Board Meeting to be held at 8 PM . Mr . Raymond turned the meeting back over to R . Gleason . R . Gleason : Is there any additional business ? C . Twigg : What was the deal in McLean where the guy built a house right next to the school ? That thing there is getting to be quite a Junk pile . R . Gleason: That ' s in the Town of Dryden . S J . MacNeil : No it ' s not , it ' s in the Town of Groton . C . Twigg : Larson is his name . J . MacNeil : He built a house and barn and has all sorts of stuff there . - 7 - R . Gleason : Which side of 'the road ? C . Twigg : On the school 'side coming up Peru Road , J . MacNeil : He never got a building permit or anything else that I know of . Co Twigg : He built a nice house and an old shabby pole barn and there ' s a lot of junk which is an eyesore . R . Gleason: The only thing I know if you want to as a Board member pass a resolution to ;the Planning Board to ask the Town to look into it . J . MacNeil : I think now that school is starting and it ' s only up to third grade the kids could climb over and would be a health hazard to them and I 'would think it would be worth checking into . R . Gleason Let Bob Brown know or the Town Supervisor , L . Raymond : That would be the proper procedure to follow . R . Gleason : 0 . K . , could we have a motion to say it has been brought to the Planning Board ' s attention that there ' s a possible violation of our zoning ordinance at whatever the address is there and would like to call it to the attention of the zoning officer ? L . Raymond : I would go along with putting it in our minutes as a matter of information that we discussed but not so sure about making any motions on it until Mr . Brown has had a chance to be notified and checks into it . D . Payne : We could drop him a note to look into it . Co Twigg : I asked Bob about it the other day and he told me Larson built a house there and I asked him if he had been there and he said no he didn ' t even know the house had been built . R . Gleason : How long has it been built ? C . Twigg : Just this summer and it ' s a nice house but next came the pole barn and it just looks like - - he ought to get a junk permit . R . Gleason : Do you want me to contact them? C . Twigg : I think something should be done because if planning is supposed to protect the neighborhood if something like that moved in next door to me I wouldn ' t want it . L . Raymond : We have no enforcement powers at all . D . Payne : But we can bring anything like that to the attention of the Town Board and I think it ' s our duty to do this . R . Gleason : That ' s why I thought a letter addressed to Bob and the Town Super - visor might be` in order . C . Twigg : Now maybe everything is under control but it certainly looks bad . - 8 - N ` / l J . MacNeil : If it was somewheres else , it would be different , but right next to the school it bothers me . L . Raymond : There are situations where if you don ' t talk to the person first you don ' t know what they have in mind so you need an opportunity for the person to explain if there are any ex - tenuating circumstances involved . L . Raymond : I was real happy after talking to Mr . Brown the other night to find the two sheds I built were legal . R . Gleason : Is there any other business ? D . Payne : I wonder if Mr . Space got a building permit for his new barn? L . Raymond : I was wondering about that , too . R . Gleason : Where ' s that ? ' J . MacNeil : On the Stevens Road , Some discussion was held on this by all . L . Raymond passed out a xerox of a Bill that passed the U . S . Senate on June 7th but has to be passed by the - - - - - - - - - - - - - still . R . Raymond : It says here that any State agency rules that are going to be changed in any way . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Mr . Raymond read aloud from the Bill . ) It struck me reading this thing that obviously something like that is beyond our scope but in a much smaller way in talking about our various zoning regulations and so forth have we considered who pays the larger portion of the taxes on the Town and also the possible effects on the roads ? Driving around the town there are a number of roads I noticed and don ' t know what their status is and we indicate that is an area where you can build a residential building , - -what does that mean in actual Town costs and so on? All I ' m saying is this just reminded me this is the kind of thinking going on at the State level that maybe in a very small way we might think of some of those things ourselves because it seems to me in talking about these zoning regulations we have been going on our feelings about the matter and our views but we should think a little bit about the possible impacts on taxes and roads that would be of significance to the Town . R.. Gleason : 0 . K . , - an any discussion ? 0 . K . , is there anything else ? D . Payne made a motion the meeting be adjourned which was seconded by J . MacNeil and carried . The meeting adjourned at 10 P .M . Respectfully submitted , - 9 Josephine Bell