HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979-02-06 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Held at the
Town Hall , Groton , New York
Tuesday - February 6 , 1979
8 * 00 P . M .
PRESENT : R . Gleason - Chairman* G . Evans - Tompkins County
G . Totman - Vice- Chairman* Planning Board
J . MacNeil*
L . Raymond* J . Bell - Recording Clerk*
M . Adams
C . Twigg
Do Payne
* - Denotes those present .
Mr . Gleason called the meeting to order at 8 * 15 P . M .
R . Gleason : You have the minutes of our last meeting . Are there any
additions or corrections ?
L . Raymond : Yes - on page 3 - should be then they "wouldn ' t " instead of
"would " . Also " . . . . here of a group " add " for example at
National or State Level with the natural resources . . . . etc . etc .
R . Gleason : If there are no additional corrections the minutes will
stand approved as written .
0 . K . , - -I don ' t know whether to give you this as a report
or new business . Next time we will likely have a subdivision
proposal by the Catholic Church to subdivide their property
which they don ' t use for church purposes , on their property
on Chipmans Corners Road and Route 38 . Now I have asked and
they will have 5 plats which , according to our regulations ,
will require a major subdivision proposal rather than a minor
one . I checked with Bucko on this . He says it will have to
go as a major but we can waive a considerable number of the
requirements on the technical part of it - - on maps and so on
- because there will be no road changes , no major changes of
any kind other than survey of the lots .
I asked Gary about an impact statement and he will send , or
bring one next time and we ' ll look at it and see whether we will
have to have one or not .
I thought you might want to - - if you happen to be up that way
- drive around to see if there ' s anything you might want to
question about . It should be worthwhile , perhaps , and when they
come in with their maps and so on we can ask intelligent questions .
As you may have heard , there ' s a proposal to have the County and� or
Towns take over and do something with abandoned railroad right- o
ways . I have a note from Teresa asking if we have any suggestions
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R . Gleason : on the Town ' s portion of the Lehigh Valley Railroad .
G . Totman : Let the County have it .
R . Gleason : I guess the main question is the Tompkins County Environmental
Management Council - -
G . Totman. : I think it should go back to the original property owners and
take it out of the Town business .
R . Gleason : Do you want to make that as a motion ?
G . Totman : I make the motion that we recommend to the Town Board if they
get back to do what they want to in the Town it would revert
back to the original landowners , if they still exist , or the
adjacent property owners on an equal share do with it as you
wish and it would be back on the tax rolls .
J . MacNeil : I second the motion .
R . Gleason : Any other discussion ?
L . Raymond : Is the Town restricted just to that if they took it over ?
Could it provide say greater access roads for the property
owners to put in subdivisions and things like that to act
as a tax base ? In other words could it be made into a
public road so properties not aecessable could be put on the
tax rolls at a higher base ?
G . Totman : I don ' t follow you . It ' s only so wide , - -50 ft . so it ' s really - -
R . Gleason : It would be wide enough for a Town road .
L . Raymond : I ' m not necessarily against it but I was wondering if there would
be any attribute to property owners so the back part of their
property could be made available for a Town road since the bed is
already there . Is there any way - - I ' m not saying - - I ' m dis -
agreeing with you , George , but I am making sure in my own mind
whether it would make more tax roll for the Town if it could be
developed .
R . Gleason : Would you like to make some kind of an amendment to the motion or - - ?
L . Raymond : Well , - -I ' m just tossing it out on the table if anyone would see any
possibility of that .
G . Totman : I ' m sure the Town would look into that . They are just looking into
possibilities . The bed itself is not wide enough for a highway and
it would be an expensive project . In many cases it would require
an enormous amount of fill .
J . MacNeil : It ' s swampy on the Peruville side of it .
L . Raymond : It ' s • not swampy from Peruville Road to Freeville . My son and I
walked it and you could see the old bed and that particular
portion is not swampy . It ' s an area where , as far as I could see ,
you could build houses . I ' m just wondering if there ' s any
possibility . Perhaps it ' s not feasible but I just didn ' t want to
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L . Raymond : see it go into some use out of hand considering all the
possibilities for the Town . That was the only point I
was trying to make . If George is right , there ' s no way we
could develop an access road for property owners without
undue cost to the Town .
Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , G .
Totman , L . Raymond and others .
R . Gleason : There ' s some proposal in the Village to make parks and so on .
G . Totman : There are possibilities for the Village but I can ' t see the Town
getting into this . If you listen to all the arguments all over
the County a Town the size of Groton is just not able to control
something like that .
R . Gleason : Well , - - I ' m chairman so I guess I agree with you George pretty
much but Lyle does have a point . I wouldn ' t want the Town to
take the whole thing over but would it be feasible to say
something to the effect there might be some small section the
Town might want to use ?
L . Raymond ; For instance - - Lewbro - - maybe some other small industry -
would the cost to the town be excessive in order to achieve
something like that ?
Further discussion was held on this by G . Totman ,
L Raymond , G . Evans , R . Gleason and others .
L . Raymond ; I ' m only saying that before we make a recommendation we should
consider all the possibilities and not throw away any opportunity
that might exist there . It goes all the way down , - - it ' s not far
from the Village - - it ' s up above the swamp - land itself there it looks
like to me and whether that could be made into an area that could
be available to the property owners for small industries and use
it as an access road is what I 'm suggesting . Also that would re -
quire the Town to make an investment for the future . It ' s a gamble .
Maybe the Town wouldn ' t want to even consider that but that would
be up to the Town Board to decide .
R . Gleason : I guess we have a motion on the floor unless you want to make
some amendment to the motion .
L . Raymond ; Well , would there be any way for the County Planning Board staff to
provide us with an estimate of what it would cost to convert it
into a Town road for a linear industrial park ? I ' m suggesting that
it could be made into an industrial area because it leads right out
of the Village .
R . Gleason : Wouldn ' t necessarily have to lead out of the Village .
L . Raymond ; Yes , it could come off Peruville Road also . Now if that was made
into an industrial zone then could you have maybe a partial access
there?
Further discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , L .
Raymond and others .
G . Totmant We do have some industry there now - - a milk plant .
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L . Raymond : It looks to me like we have two things we can do - - maybe we
should have a better idea of the kind of land it is there and
whether it would in fact be suitable for building sites for
industries and second thing we would need to know is what the
cost would be . How would it compare to the Town building an
access road from scratch or would the cost be too much . If so ,
forget it and do what George says give it back to the property
owners .
R . Gleason : The thing I ' m trying to figure out is how to handle this motion , - -
we can amend it maybe or withdraw it or change it - -
L . Raymond : I would be in favor , myself , in waiting until we get some data
on the things I ' m talking about but if - -
R . Gleason : Would you two fellows go along with this ? Supposing I tell
Teresa in general it ' s the feeling of the Planning Board that
it should revert to the landowners unless there ' s some potential
development or other use that would add to the tax rolls,
L . Raymond ; Weren ' t we asked by the Supervisor to find areas in the Town for
industry ?
R . Gleason : Yes , - -would you fellows agree to that ?
G . Totman : I guess - so , - - leave the motion the way it is and I ' ll add to it
unless there ' s a potential advantage to open a portion of it up in
a strategically located location that would entice some form of
commercial type activity . I would make that amendment to the
motion .
L . Raymond : That would meet my objections and that would allow Gary or somebody
to report back to us .
R . Gleason : All those in favor ? Motion carried unanimously .
I guess unless somebody else has something , we ' ll go on with the
review of the Town ordinance with Gary .
G . Evans ; I have in mind for this evening three things . I don ' t believe we
completed the assigning of permitted facilities and activities to
all the districts .
R . Gleason : Right .
G . Evans : There ' s a question remaining about whether additioiia{lidistricts were
to be considered and the third item is that I have prepared some
analysis on the general organization of the ordinance and suggestions
about how it might be altered and if I can get some input from this
Board on that then I can proceed at a much more rapid rate between
meetings on my part of . this job so if I can I would like to do that
first and then move on to the rest .
What I have done here is lay out a general format of articles and
under each heading Article I , II , III and so on I have listed the
articles from your present ordinance which would fit under that
category and , in some places , have indicated them as being trans -
ferred , virtually without change , and in some cases I am suggesting
some fairly radical changes .
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G . Evans .$ Article I - Introduction - Title and Purpose - from your
existing ordinance - the list of effective sections is basically
a table of contents but it also has a date on which that section
was adopted . Now that is not particularly interesting to the
Planning Board or Zoning Ordinance but if there ' s any Court
activity that becomes important .
Article Il - Administration ' " there are a number of articles in
the present ordinance which all fit - - the purpose is to
establish Board ' s permits and certificates and so on . A good
example is that the amendments Section is very brief in your
ordinance and does not explain all the things you have to do
when you amend the ordinance and I would suggest you include
an amendment section which is more like a recipe , step by step
of what you have to do and who you have to notify .
Article III -Definitions and Classifications - - now the classifica-
tions part of that we have been working with . Basically that ' s all
we have done so far . The definitions ' part there are changes from
your present ordinance which are implied by the work we have done
to this point so that part would have to be substantially written
as well .
Article IV - General Regulations includes four items shown there .
These are all grouped together because they are regulations which
apply generally over the whole Town regardless of what district
they are in .
Article V - is Establishment of Districts and this simply states
that certain districts exist , explains how they are mapped out
how they are to be interpreted . Sometimes this gets to be a
problem and this explains exactly how you are to interpret the
map and includes the map itself .
Article VI - at the top of the next page - District Regulations -
these are the items which are in four separate articles now -one is a summary of all the activities permitted in each district
and it ' s that we have been working on the last three meetings - -
list of what is permitted where .
Article VII - Special Permits is one which I think calls for
substantial revision in that it includes a section 1003 Planned
Development Areas which simply is not a special permit procedure
and it needs to be removed , and set into a separate article of
its own which I ' ll get to later . Now , in addition , to imposing
conditions on certain types of buildings and activities this is
the article where you do your environmental review procedures ,
flood area regulations . Now that ' s under 3 open development etc .
etc . - these are the last number and are here simply as illustra-
tions but if you ' re interested in having these things this is
where they would go .
Next Article VIII - Variances and Appeals . Here I would simply
replace the article you have now on appeals with a more detailed
article on variances and appeals which I presented at the last
meeting which , again , is a lot like a recipe .
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G . Evans : Article IX - Planning and Development is the appropriate place
for Section 1003 to appear . Now ` in your ordinance this is
quite lengthy and detailed and I don ' t think it needs any
substantial work at all , - - it ' s just a matter of its being in
the wrong place .
Finally , there ' s a possibility might want an index .
R . Gleason : Yes , I think that would be good because you have to thumb through
the whole thing to find . . .
G . Evans : Yes , - -very possibly if it ' s organized in a fairly logical fashion , - -
you have worked with it quite a bit , - -you know where things are .
R . Gleason : I have been through this thing long enough that I can tell where
to look for things but not always . But I know the first few
times you read it through and then read it through again you can
really get confused .
G . Evans : Right . Now , looking at the first two pages of what I have handed
out to you here I guess what I need are some comments on whether
you think this is appropriate to do or whether you would prefer I
not go any farther . I 'm perfectly willing to go either way . There
are a couple of things I pointed out which are simply errors in
the present structure and I think those should be changed .
G . Totman : I don ' t see anything here that would be offensive or wrong . I
think , in general , this is going to be a must to be included . I
think you ' ve done a good job and would encourage you to carry on
with what you started .
R . Gleason : Lyle ?
L . Raymond : I have no objections to what he is doing .
R . Gleason : It looks to me like it would be well , - - so guess the general con -
census is you go ahead , Gary .
G . Evans : Right . Now on the third page I started in on analysis of the
various parts of the ordinance and I think under the circumstances
we don ' t need to go into this at all . There are some things about
definitions that will be necessary to work on and I think under -
standing what the purpose of the definitions of the ordinance are
right at the start might help . Now as far as I ' m concerned can
now proceed with work on this table we have been flailing with .
I have some question marks and blanks .
R . Gleason : We ' re in the medium intensity zone , right ?
G . Evans : I think the blanks started at Section 334 .
G . Totman : You didn ' t do anything on the first three pages .
R . Gleason : 321 is held entirely .
G . Totman ; How about 322 ?
J . MacNeil : We didn ' t go over that . We started on 331 .
R . Gleason : 0 . K .
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G . Evans : I can ' t tell , from looking at mine , how far we went on this .
J . MacNeil : We have a question mark on 331 . 3 .
G . Evans ; One of the notes I have here is special permit for residential
activities if a small group special permit by Zoning Board' df
Appeals and if large group special permit by the Town Board , - - small
and large are undefined , of course .
J . MacNeil : I think that was the problem , - -what size ?
G . Evans ; One way of dealing with this might be group residential activities
in existing residential facilities might be permitted and group
residential activities in which anew facility was being built
might be handled differently like planned development or special
permission by the Town Board . It might be a halfway house or
that sort of thing . Where there ' s a resident couple who have 3 ,
4 , 5 or 6 people in need of some kind of care that are living
with them in a large house - - or other possibility of the build-
ing of , - -I hesitate to say the word prison but ":it `:sone of the
things that fall into that category , - - let ' s say something like
the Lansing School for Girls .
G . Totman ; I think we would be safe to put that under special permit because
that way if it ' s to get special scrutiny of the Board , - -
L . . Raymond & But it says up here in 331 exclude institutional as in nursing
homes . . . . .
G . Evans ; Oh , you caught me , I slipped !
L . Raymond ; Primarily transient arrangements like motels and hotels .
G . Evans : 0 . K . fraternity houses , dormitories - - -
G . Totman : I would go for special permit right there .
R . Gleason : Special permit for 331 . 3 in the medium intensity?
G . Totman : Right .
L . Raymond : Would a commune fall into that ?
G . Evans : If you want it to .
R . Gleason : Do we want to get back into discussion back in the agricultural
zone ? How do we want to handle that , fellows ?
G . Totman : We agreed it would be under special permit in the agricultural
zone , too .
R . Gleason : In my book I marked it special permit or PUD only above a certain
size but we didn ' t define size . I guess we ' ll leave that to Gary .
So what do we want to do with this in agricultural ? I guess the
size is critical .
L . Raymond : Yeah .
G . Totman : We ' re not talking about nursing homes and that sort of thing , - -
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G . Totman : just dormitories or group type homes . We ' re not talking about
the big things - - they are out . We ' re only talking about
strictly residential .
G . Evans : Right , - - for instance if George Junior wanted to build a dormitory
across the road into Groton .
J . MacNeil : How about if it ' s more than one ? If it ' s one - special permit , - -
if more than one should be PUD .
G . Totman : You could get away from that by adding after "hospital " - - you
could add with a comma , institutions and that would take those out
of here and put them into the area where nursing homes and
hospitals are . If you put " institution " up on that line that
would cover that .
L . Raymond : So that would exclude the George Junior type of thing , wouldn ' t
it , Gary ?
G . Evans : Yes , probably so .
J . MacNeil : Special permit .
R . Gleason : 331 . 3 Agricultural - special permit , low intensity - not permitted
medium intensity - special permit , 0 . K . Is that the way everybody
has it ?
L . Raymond : Yes .
R . Gleason : Now Civic Activities 332 . 12 and 332 . 13 .
G . Totman : On 13 and 14 we do .
R . Gleason : I don ' t have a 14 .
G . Totman : I have down special permit for 11 and 12 is permitted .
G . Evans : That ' s what I have written down .
J . MacNeil : The question was just on the definition of what it was .
R . Gleason : I had written in here PUD optional on both 12 and 13 .
L . Raymond : I have down here PUD optional and general ordinance as specified .
G . Evans : 0 . K . , - -I remember now . What I was suggesting is if these items
are permitted by special permit one of the . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . you
could give yourselves is to review them for their size and impact
and if it warranted it in your opinion you could require planned
unit development .
R . Gleason : In other words this is environmental impact ?
G . Evans : Now it ' s a technique used in Danby , for instance commercial de-
velopment of 5 acres or more is automatically PUD . It doesn ' t
have to be automatic , you can say if in the opinion of the Board
it ' s of sufficient impact , - -you just put it right into your
criteria .
R . Gleason : So No . 13 , then , you ' re saying would be special permit ?
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J . MacNeil : The point we had was whether it should be permitted or not in
the medium intensity area . This is where the problem arose ,
I think .
R . Gleason : I think it went back to the other areas as well as to whether
we did the right thing . So how do we want to handle it ? I
have it down here special permit and PUD in agricultural and
low intensity special permit and then in the medium intensity - -
G . Totman ; I would go for special permit .
R . Gleason : Just make it special permit but write in other criteria which
might throw it into a PUD .
G . Evans : 0 . K . , - - in all three districts ?
R . Gleason ; 0 . K . We have that one done . 332 . 13 will be agricultural special
permitjPUD low intensityjspecial permit or PUD medium intensity .
And 332 . 12 agricultural zone special permit , low intensity special
permit and in medium intensity permitted .
G . Evans ; Now item 14 under there , which some of you don ' t have . All I did
was take 11 Utilities and Communications and break it in two so
11 is Utilities and 14 is Communications .
R . Gleason : So we have to write a thing here for communications .
G . Totman : That would a4most naturally have to be with a special permit .
R . Gleason : Is that 0 . K . with everybody ?
L . Raymond : Yes .
R . Gleason : Now for 333 . 9 .
J . MacNeil : No - - A and B for indoor activities and outdoor activities .
G . Evans : What I have here is group entertainment , commercial activity . . . . . .
and the other , which would be B - outdoor recreational . activity = "out-
door . . . . . . . "
R . Gleason : So No . 9 will be divided into two parts and we ' ll have to go back
and consider them both in the agricultural and low intensity zones
also .
G . Totman : I ' d say agricultural and medium in both areas should be under
special permit and under low you would have a zero which means
not permitted in both areas .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . , - - any comments ? We ' ll go down to 333 . 18 .
J . MacNeil : Special permit .
R . Gleason : Now before vehicles servicing , - -would that be service stations ?
G . Totman ; You ' re talking about commercial zone ? I ' d permit that .
R . Gleason : So 18 would be permitted .
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J . MacNeil : My point here is McLean is classified as medium intensity area
and I thought a special permit would be appropriate here and
I still do because I would want to have some input if someone
wanted to put a station in near me . If it ' s on 222 , that ' s
different .
L . Raymond : What you ' re saying , Jim , is maybe whether we need special com-
mercial zone rather than just medium intensity zone .
G . Evans : You ' re saying it would be 0 . K . here but not there ?
Somd discussion was held on this by G . Totman ,
J . MacNeil , R . Gleason and others .
G . Totman : Alright , - - 333 . 18 - special permit . This means that people in
the area will be notified , will have public hearing and the
Board will sit down and say is this conducive for this particu -
lar area .
L . Raymond : I guess if our areas are defined as they are now , I think Jim
has made a point and I ' ll go for special permit .
R . Gleason : I ' m not arguing against it , just want to clarify it . 0 . K .
special permit . No . 19 - -
G . Evans ; I have a revision on 19 , - -have divided that into two - vehicle
repair and vehicle cleaning - -
(Mr . Evans read the definitions aloud for 19 ( a) and 19 (b ) )
I suggest this variation because vehicle cleaning activities
really cannot take place on a septic system . It needs a
public sewer and vehicle repair - commercial activity - - can
be on a private septic system .
G . Totman : What you ' re saying is we should have a special permit to look
into it .
Some discussion was held on this by G . Evans , R .
Gleason , G . Totman and others .
R . Gleason : So we want a special permit for this one . I don ' t know what
the Town Fathers are going to say .
L . Raymond : You do see these little car washes crop up in the country but I
never thought how they were hooked up .
G . Totman : There are some areas where you can do it where they have good
drainage .
Further discussion was held on this by G . Totman ,
L . Raymond , R . Gleason , G . Evans and others .
J . MacNeil : Is there any area on Route 38 we could designate commercial ?
R . Gleason : What I ' m saying is maybe we need to look at this medium intensity
and divide it into two areas .
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G . Totman : If you ' re talking . about industries , you have to think about
water and sewage and it would have to be quite near the
Village .
R . Gleason : We should look at some possible other alternative - -
G . Totman : I think we ought to finish this first .
R . Gleason : So will leave this special permit for 18 - 19 A&B both .
No . 21 .
G . Totman : Special permit in agricultural , not permitted in low and
nothing in medium .
R . Gleason : 333 . 21 medium intensity special permit . 0 . K . the only other
thing we have now is agricultural service .
G . Totman : How about industrial activities , agricultural activities ?
R . Gleason : I ' m on 323 . 24 medium intensity .
G . Totman : I have that down as zoning permit .
J . MacNeil : I think it should be special permit .
G . Evans : This is an Agway Feed Store ,
L . Raymond : If we ' re going to ask for special permit for all these other
things it just about follows should do it for this too .
G . Totman : 0 . K . , I ' ll go for that .
R . Gleason : 334 . 1 as Industrial Activities - Medium Intensity Zone ,
J . MacNeil : I think it should be a zoning permit .
G . Totmant I agree .
R . Gleasnn : Just a zoning permit ?
G . Totman : Yes .
J . MacNeil : Yes .
G . Evans : This is pretty light weight stuff .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . - light manufacturing .
G . Totman : Special permit .
J . MacNeil : I think pharmaceutical manufacturing should not be in there .
There ' s no such thing as a small pharmaceutical outfit . I
don ' t think that should be in there and I also question the
soft drink bottling .
G . Evans : I think I have changed it already .
J . MacNeil : You ' ve taken scientific instruments and put it down in the
light activity . I think that ' s better definitely .
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G . Totman : What are we going to have - - zoning permit ?
R . Gleason : No . 1 - zoning permit , No . 2 - zoning permit , No . 3 - zoning
permit .
L . Raymond : I think to be consistent you ' re going to have to ask for special
permit for #2 and 3 .
R . Gleason : #2 and 3 - special permit .
G . Totman : 4 and 5 same thing .
J . MacNeil : If you permit them .
R . Gleason : Again , this gets into the . . . . . . . . . . . . . here .
J . MacNeil : That ' s right , I think they should be in a commercial zone .
G . Totman : You don ' t have any commercial zone . Where are you going to
put one?
Some discussion was held on this by all .
L . Raymond : I think a PUD should be there .
R . Gleason : No . 334 . 4 medium intensity - PUD 334 . 5 not permitted .
R . Gleason : 335 . 1
J . MacNeil : I don ' t think it should be permitted in this type area , there
probably wouldn ' t be enough space .
R . Gleason : The only thing I have to say is you have to look into the areas
involved and we do have commercial zones on 222 and I guess I
would - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -had to put it to the point - - - - - - - - - - -
L . Raymond : Actually this is very similar to the residential .
J . MacNeil : Permitted ,
R . Gleason : 0 . K . permitted on that one . 335 . 2 - permitted . 335 . 3 - permitted .
G . Totman : What did we do in the low intensity zone ?
R . Gleason : I have a question mark there .
G . Totman : I would call for a special permit on the low intensity .
R . Gleason : I think special permit should be in both the low and medium .
Some discussion was held on this by all .
R . Gleason : 335 . 3 Commercial Farm Headquarters - special permit in both low
and medium .
335 . 4 Retail Agricultural Sales - - again we ' re going to have
to look at low and medium both .
G . Totman : I wouldn ' t permit this in low .
R . Gleason : It ' s carried on right in the Village of Groton .
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L . Raymond : If it ' s an enclosed greenhouse , where all the activity is taking
place inside that would be different than if you had some sort of
activity that takes place mostly outdoors , wouldn ' t it ?
Some discussion was held on this by all .
G . Evans : We need to keep in mind the distinction between this , which is
really the sale of surplus and commercial activity food sales
and service .
Further discussion was held on this by all .
G . Evans : Should we amend this to include on- site sale of farm products ?
R . Gleason : Yes , that would be a - - - - - - - - - -but from a practical point of
view - - to go back to my egg business , - - sometimes I need
different sized eggs and have to go to my neighbors and buy
some and immediately somebody could raise a howl that I ' m
commercial .
Further discussion was held by all .
R . Gleason : 335 . 4 Retail Agricultural Sales - we ' re permitting it in the
agricultural zone .
G . Totman : You have zoning permit in agricultural and zero in low .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . and in medium - zoning permit .
R . Gleason ; 335 . 5 Field and Forest .
Mr . Evans read aloud what this category definition is .
R . Gleason : 335 . 5 .
G . Totmans I would permit it in agricultural and I would put it under
special permit in low and medium .
Some discussion was held on this by all .
G . Totman : Alright , - - take the grazing of livestock out of there and I ' ll
agree with you .
R . Gleason : I would be inclined to say special permit myself but I just
can ' t quite get the criteria . How do you write it ? How do
you determine it ? This is - -
G . Totman : It says within the last year - - you can ' t go back 10- 15 years .
Further discussion was held on this by all .
R . Gleason : Let ' s leave it go for now and see if you can come up with some
kind of criteria .
G . Totman ; What are you letting it go at ?
R . Gleason ; We ' ll skip 335 . 5 for now except permit it in agricultural .
The other two we ' ll leave until next time .
13 -
R . Gleason : It ' s 10 : k5 now , - - shall we finish this page ? 0 . K . 336 . 1- -
G . Totman : We have done the low and agricultural , - - just have the medium
on this ?
R . Gleason : Right .
J . MacNeil : Special permit .
R . Gleason : 336 . 2 Commercial - special permit . 0 . K .
G . Evans : What about 341 and 342 .
J . MacNeil : We haven ' t done the first two pages .
G . Evans : The first two pages I think I can put together something for
that that you can look over at the next meeting .
J . MacNeil moved the meeting adjourn which
was seconded by G . Totman and carried .
The meeting adjourned at 10 : 20 P . M .
Res ectfully submitted ,
Jose hine Bell
- 14 -
GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Held at the
Town Hall , Groton , . New York
Tuesday - January 9 , 1979
8000 PM
PRESENT : R . Gleason - Chairman* G . Evans - Tompkins County
M . Adams* Planning Board*
L . Raymond* G . Hoy - Chairman - Groton
J . MacNeil* Zoning Board of Appeals *
D . Payne
G . Totman
C . Twigg J . Bell - Recording Clerk*
* - Denotes those present .
Mr . Gleason brought the meeting to order and the following
corrections were made to the December meeting ;
Page 7 - No . 4 Utilities - after " solar" add words " energy
facilities " . . . . . .
Page 3 - L . Raymond - add : looking into building license to
gap ponds . . . . " ,w:: d.'_; w wrs
R . Gleason: The meeting will come to order and will forego our regular format
in order to clear some material for Gordon Hoy , Chairman of our Zoning
Board of Appeals . Will come back to our regular meeting afterwards .
Mr . Evans handed out material to all present .
G . Evans : The material I have handed out is a revised version of your Section
1501 , 1502 , 1503 and so on with regard to appeals , variances and proced -
ures of the Board of Zoning Appeals .
Now the material I have handed out around the table here is a proposed
section on appeals and variances that would be included in your zoning
ordinance . The booklet that Mr . Hoy has there , which I have a stack
of here if you would like to look at them , are general rules and
regulations for Boards of Zoning Appeal . This is written out with a
lot of blank spaces to be filled in with the name of the town . or
village and so on . They contain generally the same information . That
is they go into the general procedures of the Zoning Board of Appeals , what
they should follow , - -talks about the different kinds of functions of Zoning
Boards of Appeals and some of the situations that are peculiar to decisions
they are required to make . It ' s a Federal and State law that the Zoning
Board of Appeals must have an adopted set of rules and regulations for
their procedures - - if they do not their decisions are technically in -
valid . That has been the basis of. many decisions of the Board of Zoning
Appeals being overturned by the Courts so if you don ' t have them I urge
you to do so as soon as possible . This- does not require a public hearing
or anything of that sort . Members of the Board just review them , adjust
them to their needs and adopt them .
G . Hoy ; We can do that ? Or does the Town Board ?
- 1 -
G . Evans : You do it . What I have given you is : pr•epared by the State to give
you guidelines on this and if it ' s essentially the same then you ' re
O . K . Now the reason that this is important , I think , is that there are
different types of variances , - - there are two completely different func -
tions of the Board of Zoning Appeals , - - one is appeals and variances
procedure and the other is the special permit issuance that they do .
State law requires that the Board of Appeals handle appeals and variances .
State law does not require that they handle special permits . That ' s
optional . The Town Board can decide they want you to handle these or
that they want to handle them themselves or that they want the Appeals
Board to handle some kind and the Planning Board other kinds and still
handle some themselves . Not only are these functions - one required and
the other optional , -- the decision criteria used are different so it is
important for a person who checks a zoning ordinance to try and figure
out where they stand to try and follow through on it , it ' s also important
the Board of Appeals knows it .
For instance there ' s a great difference in the criteria you use for use
variances and area variances and if you want to look here in Section 707
vs . 708 . Here are a list of the decision criteria for those two types
of variances . These decision criteria are not spelled out in State law
they are instead developed through the courts over a period of many years
and many , many decisions . The Courts have come to the point that these
are the decision criteria they will consider. valid for different types
of variances . In Section 708 Requirements - - this is commonly called
Use variance here - - item number two there mw - lot or facility in
question cannot reasonably be used for any activity . . . . . . by this ordinance .
Very , very few variance appeals are going to meet that criteria . There ' s
almost always something the ordinance permits you to do so to meet this
criteria is extremely difficult .
Now in a town there are actually 4 different kinds of variances and the
decision criteria are 707 , 708 and also 709 and 710 .
There ' s a section in NYS Section 280A , subdivision 3 of the Town Law
that allows you to issue permits for development on parcels that have
no frontage on a public road and these are the decision criteria you
would use for granting such a variance . If , for some reason , there was
a land - locked parcel and somebody wanted to put a hunting cabin up there
if your ordinance says you have to have frontage on a public road then ,
technically you couldn ' t issue them a permit but through this variance
procedure you can . Look this over and decide that it won ' t appreciably
alter the locality and circumstances do not require public access and you
can grant the variance . In other words if it ' s reasonable to allow it
these criteria will be made and you can issue the variance .
R . Gleason: That ' s interesting because I talked to Bucko about this very thing - -
if someone wanted to build a cabin in the woods on property which
was land - locked and he said the only way they could do it was get a
300 ft . strip away back from another parcel of land - - which seemed
to me rather ridiculous - - so this is a procedure for getting around
that .
G . Evans ; A lot of towns are not as rural as Groton and don ' t have large , wooded
areas but in a town like Groton it might be quite reasonable to have
this as a procedure in your ordinance .
G . Hoy : This here , that we ' re going over now , - - after the ordinance is re -
written , will this be written into it so we have it to go by rather
- 2 -
G . Hoy : than an adoption of our own? In other words , our ordinance right
now has nothing in it for us to follow ?
G . Evans : What I would suggest is that this , or something similar , be included
as an article in the ordinance . The rules and regulations of the
Board of Appeals is out of the jurisdiction of the Planning Board .
However , I would suggest you adopt as close to the same thing as
possible .
G . Hoy : But if you go over this now , - -a lot would pertain to a new ordinance
rather than the one we have .
G . Evans : The ones in 707 and 708 apply to your existing ordinance as it is .
709 and 710 do not and it ' s possible they may never . Do you see ?
G . Hoy : Uh -huh .
L . Raymond : 703 . 2 , - -why would they give two different measurements ? There ' s
3 . 28 ft . in each meter which is 4 . 82 ft . which is different and that
could be critical in some cases .
G . Evans : These numbers were chosen for an inclusion in round figures .
L . Raymond : Again , I ' m nit -picking but I do believe it could cause difficulties
in some cases .
G . Evans : I personally feel like going cold turkey to the metric conversion
but - -
U Raymond : What they might better do , I would suggest , is to say 150 meters ,
or it ' s equivalent in feet , - -then they would have to convert it .
G . Evans : If you ' re just going to say 150 meters , or its equivalent in feet ,
you aren ' t saying anything about feet .
L . Raymond : Right . Also " the parties who may appeal " , - - at the town level can
a party appeal on behalf of a class action?
G . Evans : If they are a public official , - -yes .
L . Raymond : I ' m thinking here of a group , national or state level , natural
resources defense counsel which will appeal decisions as a class
action .
G . Evans : As I understand it — On no — On not before a Board of Appeals ON —
in the courts , perhaps , - -maybe . If there was such a group and
they would want to appeal the best way to do it would be to
persuade a public official of the town to appeal in their behalf .
Some discussion was held on this by L . Raymond ,
G. , Evans and others .
G . Evans : This doesn ' t relate to sections of the Board of Appeals . The Board
of Appeals deals with appeals and decisions of the zoning of € icer . 4 ,
If the zoning officer has made a decision that this group does not
feel is correct , then an appeal to the Board of Zoning Appeals
would be appropriate .
L . Raymond : Then , - - their decision could also be appealed , could it not ?
- 3 -
G . Evans : Yes , - - through the Court .
L . Raymond : That ' s interesting .
G . Evans : Most of the members of Boards of Appeals I have talked with are
not fully aware of the variety of variances . They are not fully
cognizant of the difference between variance decision and special permit de -
cision and I don ' t imagine for a minute that simply by handing
this to you it ' s going to clarify that problem as it exists on
your Board so in ` giving this to you I also have to offer my
services to your Board to explain and clarify and illustrate
and so on this material . However , if you don ' t have an adopted
set of rules and regulations even if you are not happy with these
I would suggest you adopt them anyways and revise them later if
you become more aware as to what you want to do because , as I
mentioned earlier , without that adopted set of rules and regula -
tions , your decisions are not valid . I ' m not going to tell any -
body but if someone wanted to overturn one of your decisions
they could do so .
R . Gleason: In other words , -with this business of motorized vehicle repair
shops - -
G . Evans : That ' s a special , permit .
R . Gleason: 0 . K .
G . Evans : I shouldn ' t have said nothing to do with it , I ought to have said
less . The guidelines for the special permit have not come from
the courts . The guidelines for special permits come from the Town
Board . This is one of the reasons the Town Board retains special
permit issuing power because that way they don ' t have to give their
decisions . If they delegate it you have to give your conditions
that you expect be met .
R . Gleason: Have they done that ?
G . Hoy : No , - -Ben gave us a set awhile back but they weren ' t adopted . If
you have copies enough of that can I have some so I won ' t have to
have copies made as would like to get that to my members right
away ?
G . Evans : Sure - - how many are there ?
G . Hoy : 4 others , - -I have one .
G . Evans : Here you are .
G . Hoy : I don ' t want to disrupt your meeting any further tonight . We ' ll
go over this and then can we arrange to go over it with you after -
wards ?
G . Evans : That would be a good idea .
G . Hoy : How do I get in touch with you , - - through Colleen or Roger.?
G . Evans : You can just phone me directly .
G . Hoy : Alright .
- 4 -
Mr . Evans gave Mr . Hoy his telephone number and at this
point Mr . Hoy left the meeting at 25 to 9 PM .
R . Gleason : Anything else ?
G . Evans : Nothing at this point .
R . Gleason: 0 . K . , - -would it be alright if I retain one of those copies ?
G . Evans : Yes ,
R . Gleason: Alright , m -we ' ll resume our regular procedure . Has everyone
gone through the minutes ?
J . Bell : Mr . Raymond made two corrections to them .
(Mrs . Bell read these aloud and everyone present
( corrected their copies of the minutes . )
R . Gleason : Are there any other additions or corrections to the minutes
as presented ? If not , they stand approved as written .
I have no real reports but last time a couple of things were
brought up .
I have a memo from Ben Bucko back in March of last year to the
effect that we have to publish a meeting notice which we have done
and also publish any special meetings we hold . The question is
what constitutes a meeting ? It says here "Minutes of all
meetings have to be keprt if more than two members get together . "
So I guess two of us can get together but if 3 of us do have to
publish it .
If we have an executive session , - mwe may have one but are to keep
minutes and no vote or decision can be made in the executive
session . Any vote must be made in open meeting and recorded .
In the last part it says " any voting must be made in open meetings
and the vote of every member recorded . " Anyways I thought I
would mention this tonight .
Is there any old business that anyone has ?
L . Raymond : This is new business . I have a piece of material I received today
that I thought might be of some interest in our review of the zon-
ing ordinance so any time you think it ' s appropriate I ' ll bring it up .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . , - =we have new business and I have a little announcement to
make . I think all of you heard of the Association of Towns meeting .
As of right now Cecil Twigg and his wife , George and Irene and I
will be going . 0 . K . we ' re now open for new business , - =Lyle will
recognize you .
L . Raymond : I didn ' t know where this fitted in but I have a memo here from
Governor Carey ' s office and a note of one of the last laws that was
passed in the 1978 legislative session which lasted until December
31 last year . What it apparently says is that a state law has been
- 5 -
L . Raymond : passed that indicates condominiums have to be declared subdivisions
under all zoning laws and I thought that might pertain to some of
our reviews . Do you want me to read this here ?
G . Evans : I would like to read it but not necessarily at this meeting .
Mr . Raymond read it aloud and the copy is attached to
the original copy of these minutes to be filed in the
Town Hall .
L . Raymond : The bill was approved December 31 , 1978 as Chapter 793 of the New
York State Laws of 1978 .
We receive notices of all of these in my office .
That seems to me , - -doesn ' t it to you , - -although he mentions County ,
we , as a planning board if we have any condominiums in the town
would have to review them the same as we would subdivisions .
G . Evans : Right , - -thepproblem will be - - condominiums do not represent a
type of building . A condominium is a type of ownership like
partners or corporations or fee simple , or those kind of things
so to say all condominium proposals have to be reviewed by the
Board seems to me to obscure the fact and make it even more so .
I would suggest that any large scale development be reviewed by
the planning board whether it ' s a condominium or not but I don ' t
know exactly what kind of problems they are trying to solve but
it seems like an unfortunate use of , and little understood , legal
term . Anyways what I will be recommending , if I haven ' t already ,
is that any development of a certain size would be reviewed by
your board before it would be approved . In a small , not highly
populated town , it seems to me it ' s imperative it be reviewed for
its impact on the town .
L . Raymond : Do we have the authority to review anything other than a subdivision?
G . Evans : Not right now but the Town Board could delegate it to you .
L . Raymond : I see .
Some discussion was held on this by G . Evans , L .
Raymond and others .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . , - - at our last meeting we got through the low intensity zone
and we have the area now of medium intensity so will move on to it .
G . Evans ; At the last meeting we met with quite a lot of dissention with the
categories that were available to choose from and I think you caused
most of that , Roger , becuase you figured an open field was agricul -
tural and that your farm headquarters was agricultural but got this
kind of thing in , terms of their impact on neighbors and so on . So
I ° went back to the drawing board and hatched up some more categories
so will pass them around and see if you would like to make these
adjustments .
Now everyone look at the ones you had before I can explain very
simply what I did - - Category 3 Commercial Food and Fiber Pro -
duction and Activities - - what I did was to throw together
another category ' here "Commercial Farm Headquarters Activity"
- 6 -
G . Evans : and this would be the activites that take place at the homestead
around the barns . Then I added a fifth category " Field and
Forest Production Activity " which is simply management of open
fields and so on which are economically associated with the farm
headquarters but not adjacent to it , - - could be some distance away .
So this will separate your operation into two categories . Now I
think the environmental impact will guide this .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . so we add these - - we were dealing with the low intensity
zone so . won ' t add these sections in here .
L . Raymond : I certainly like the wording of the new number 3 category better
than the previous one . I think you did a good job , Gary .
G . Evans : Good . In the table I was working with I got to 335 . 3 and came up
with a goose egg .
R . Gleason : I did , too , so what we need to do is insert this section in here .
G . Evans : If you buy this change it should mean pulling this set and replacing
it .
L . Raymond : Number 5 I guess - - I like what you have there but question I have
is the last statement " not involving use of buildings on the site . "
There are sometimes , if you have a crop being grown some distance
from the farm headquarters , maybe a temporary shelter or small barn
left over from former farmstead that is used for storage at that
site by the farmer whose headquarters are removed by some distance .
G . Evans : Right . That ' s why I said "usually " because I recognize that sometimes
they do so I added that primarily to help fill out the description of
how it differs from farmsteads .
L . Raymond : Wouldn ' t it be better to change that " usually do not " and say " and may
involve " ?
Some discussion was held on this by J . MacNeil , L . Raymond ,
G . Evans and others .
G . Evans : It might be better to drop the last clause altogether and just put
a period after " activities " .
R . Gleason : Let ' s strike the whole thing out from " and" .
G . Evans : Good .
R . Gleason : Anyways on item 335 - Agricultural Activities we are going to classify
one through five according to the proposed revision in this criteria
and I think the best thing is to give Mrs . Bell a copy to attach to
the minutes .
(A copy of this is attached to the original copy of these
(minutes which is on file in the Town Clerk ' s Office . )
G . Evans : 335 C should be called Commercial Farm Headquarters on the table .
R . Gleason : Alright - - now we have to decide - - is everybody satisfied with
this ? 0 . K . , - - it ' s unanimous .
- 7 -
R . Gleason : Now let ' s see we an the first two are the same an an number 3 will be
different then the original and number 4 will be the same and
number 5 is an added one so we ' ll have to decide on 3 and 5 and ,
actually on 4 too , because we had a question mark on it . Now we ' re
dealing with the low intensity zone .
L . Raymond : Am I correct that we were treating the low intensity area as the
highest class residential area before and that the medium intensity
was not the area where you could have small stores because in my mind
I had it the other way around . I thought in retrospect perhaps
that was the way you were treating it as I recall some of George ' s
remarks from the last meeting and would like to clarify that for my
own information .
R . Gleason: 0 . K . , - -Article 10 in the Zoning Ordinance — We
G . Evans : I can tell by looking at the table in Article 6 that the medium
intensity is the more commercial .
L . Raymond : 0 . K . , - -I just wanted to clarify it . Then we really don ' t have a
commercial zone in town , do we ? Just low and medium intensity and
agricultural ?
R . Gleason: The medium was intended for commercial .
Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , L .
Raymond , J . MacNeil and others .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . now what is your wish for item 3 commercial farm headquarters
activities ?
J . MacNeil : I would say if trying to keep it a residential area it should not be
permitted .
R . Gleason : You would have to allow any that are there .
G . Evans : Yes , - -this is all prospective .
R . Gleason : Any comments , Lyle ?
L . Raymond : If I bow to the zoning laws I would say no , - -otherwise , personally , I
have questions as to the wisdom of that .
R . Gleason : Mary , do you have any comments on it ?
M . Adams : Yes , I agree with Jim .
R . Gleason: I guess I would agree except if there ' s an existing one and I think
there are one or two and if you say it ' s not permitted it ' s rather
difficult for them at sometime in the future .
G . Evans : Technically it means they cannot expand their business .
R . Gleason : That ' s right and I think there should be a little bit more
flexibility .
G . Evans : There may be by special permit .
R . Gleason : Yes , I was wondering if that would solve the problem instead of
- 8 -
R . Gleason : saying not permitted .
G . Evans : Presimably your best agricultural land is in your agricultural
zone and the most appropriate place would be in that zone .
Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , G .
Evans and others .
R . Gleason : Maybe we ' should leave this until we have the full contingency
of the Board .
G . Evans : You ' re going to have to spring this new category on them anyways .
R . Gleason : Right , so perhaps we should , - -O . K . let ' s discuss the next
one - - Retail Agricultural Sales .
J . MacNeil : If you don ' t permit activity you can ' t permit the sales .
G . Evans : This implies either 1 , 2 or 3 are permitted - - actually it
implies 2 or 3 are permitted .
R . Gleason : Retail agricultural sales , - -now again ofttimes household lifestock
and food production can result in some limited sales .
G . Evans : Well , the thing about retail agricultural sales is usually there
are potential traffic hazard problems and I would suggest it be
done by special permit and this would allow you to review just
the general appropriateness of it as well as specifics of safetly .
R . Gleason: I ' ll have to give you an illustration of what I have in mind . In
the village there are one or two places where they have had you
pick strawberries within the village limits so it ' s concern could
be this kind of operation outside village limits which would be in
that low intensity zone and my personal feeling is that that is
something we shouldn ' t necessarily exclude . So this is where I
certainly would think would have to go a little easy: ,
L . Raymond : I agree . Seriously I think there ' s an increasing trend to have
these small you pick operations like pick peas , strawberries ,
sweet corn and things like that and I would think they should be
allowed up to a certain point .
J . MacNeil : A green house would fall under this , too , with say the sale of
plants or flowers which should be permitted .
M . Adams : Special permit , I would say .
J . MacNeil : I would say so , too , but would have to go back and have a special
permit for 2 also .
Further discussion was held on this by L . Raymond ,
R . Gleason and others .
R . Gleason : We ' re talking about two different things - - incidental sales as
against planned sales .
J . MacNeil : Isn ' t this covered in commercial activities ? I thought we went
over that before ?
- 9 -
L . Raymond ; I was thinking that , too , but couldn ' t seem to find it .
G . Evans : This is really not addressed to the crop overrun , - -where your tomato
. crop outdid itself and you have twenty extra bushels . We ' re really
talking about an on-going retail agricultural sales activity that
is going to be there year after year after year .
L . Raymond : It doesn ' t say that here .
R . Gleason : What I ' m getting at is we don ' t want it interpreted in such a way
that it will get a guy into trouble .
Further discussion was held on this by L . Raymond ,
R . Gleason , G . Evans and others .
G . Evans : Do you think something should be in there that excludes incidental
type of sales ?
L . Raymond : Somehow there must be a way of doing that .
R . Gleason: Something in effect that doesn ' t require too much traffic or
parking requirements or something like this which would cause
a problem . I don ' t quite know how to handle it but do think
we should be careful .
L . Raymond : Could you handle it by say the number of vehicles allowed at
any one time on the premises ?
G . Evans : 325 . 4 - - could we leave it the way it is and add a sentence saying
that this does not include incidental sales of farm or garden
surplus or something to that effect ? And emphasize the incidental
part ?
J . MacNeil : Isn ' t that covered in 29 We have that as a zoning permit . I think
it should be listed separately and it should be permitted .
L . Raymond : Wasn ' t that where - - where was the point we got into the smokehouse
argument with George ? Wasn ' t that there ?
R . Gleason : Yes ,
G . Evans : Did I understand your suggestion that incidental sales should be a
separate category and should be removed from 2 as well ?
J . MacNeil : I don ' t think they should be covered by zoning permit but some of
the things in that area should be . I don ' t think incidental crops
and that sort of thing should be there , - -that ' s why I say put it in
a separate category and just permit it .
Further discussion was held on this by all .
R . Gleason : Well , I would think next time , - -I was hoping to take an overall look
at what we have done and I think before we can come to a decision on
this we have to step back and take an overall look and maybe it will
fall into place and we may find we have to make some slight changes
in zoning . So I think it ' s getting along here so we should go back
and start on the medium intensity zone .
G . Evans : I would suggest we start ' not . with the facilities but with activities
- 10 -
G . Evans : starting with 331 .
R . Gleason: O . K .
G . Evans : The first category is household residential activity .
M . Adams : Now , - -medium intensity is what ?
G . Evans : It ' s the most vastly developed and the one with the most potential
for non -residential activities .
M . Adams : 0 . K .
R . Gleason: 331 Household Residential Activities - - I put down zoning permit .
And have it special permit in agricultural zone . Any other comments ?
Is it O . K . for zoning permit - - everybody agrees ?
Now - Rooming Houses - No . 2 .
M . Adams : Zoning permit .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . No . 3 .
L . Raymond : If it ' s medium intensity I would think a zoning permit .
G . Evans : The kind of activity that is accomplished under the term group home
might be something you might want to look at a little more closely .
These are sometimes referred to as halfway houses , residential
kind of facilities for people somewhere between household situation
and institutional situation .
R . Gleason : The way I would put it down for No . 3 would be special permit and
then above certain size it would be PUD . Which is the same as we
did in the agricultural zone . Any comments ?
G . -Evans : The effect of that is to have the small ones decided by Board of
Appeals and the large ones decided by the Town Board and you could
achieve the same thing by having both special permits but say over
a certain size the Town Board would make the decision rather than
the Board of Appeals . I ' m making this suggestion simply as a ways "
of not cluttering the PUD .
L . Raymond : Do you mean ? in the agricultural zone ?
R . Gleason : That ' s what I ' m doing in my book .
J . MacNeil : Why not leave yours Lyle and you ' ll have it next time ?
R . Gleason : No . 3 we ' ll leave with a question mark .
R . Gleason : 332 - Civic Activities - Essential Services .
J . MacNeil : How about permitted ?
G . Evans : Essential services are usually performed by government agencies so
the purpose of having It here is to inform people that this me a
permitted activity in that area .
R . Gleason : So it ' s permitted , - -O . K .
- 11 -
R . Gleason : No . 2 - Limited Child Care ?
L . Raymond : Permitted .
R . Gleason: 0 . K . - Nursing Home ?
L . Raymond : I suggest zoning permit the same as for the low intensity .
Some discussion was held on this and it was decided to have
it permitted in the medium zone for No . 3 .
R . Gleason : #4 Community Assembly ?
M . Adams : Permitted .
R . Gleason : Would we rather have a zoning permit ?
J . MacNeil : Yes ,
L . Raymond : Yes .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . zoning permit . No . 5 Community Education?
J . MacNeil : Zoning permit .
L . Raymond : We have special permit for the other two classes so ought to make
It easier to give them the idea as to where we want them to go .
R . Gleason : # 6 - zoning permit # 7 - zoning permit # 8 zoning permit
#9 - zoning permit #10 - PUD # 11 - special permit
# 12 permitted # 13
A discussion was held by all on the fact that on #12 in the low
intensity and agricultural it was special permit with PUD
optional and the members present felt it should be changed in
all of them . R . Gleason suggested it be held over and looked
at again when all the members were present . Mr . Evans said
he would try to clarify this before the next meeting .
R . Gleason: 0 . K . we ' ll leave # 13 until then , too .
G . Evans : Wait a minute - - the copy you have ends with 13 ?
L . Raymond : Yes .
G . Evans : 0 . K . , - -the version I ' m looking at has # 14 - Telephone or Other
Community . . . . . . . Activities , etc . etc .
R . Gleason : That ' s not on ours .
G . Evans : It ' s not on the table either . Civic activities includes franchised
. . . . . . . and similar kinds of activities and I think cable TV would
be included but I will repair this list before our next meeting .
R . Gleason : 333 Commercial Activities - No . 1 - zoning permit #2 zoning permit
#3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 all zoning permit # 9 ? until Mr . Evans brings
revision of this broken into two categories at our next meeting .
#10 - zoning permit # 11 zoning permit # 12 zoning permit # 13 special
12 -
Y
R . Gleason: permit # 14 zoning permit # 15 zoning permit # 16 zoning permit # 17
zoning permit .
Some discussion was held on whether 18 and 19 should be special
permit or zoning permit and it was decided . if could set up special
criteria that had to be met before zoning officer could issue per -
mit might be able to put it as zoning permit but further discussion
was held wherein J . MacNeil said he thought it was important to keep
It special permit so people would have a voice in whether they wanted
it or not .
R . Gleason: We can vote on this if you want to but maybe we should wait until
the full board is here so let ' s hold #18 . and #19 for now .
# 20 zoning permit #21 -
(No . 21 was discussed and it was decided to hold it also .)
R . Gleason: # 22 zoning permit # 23 zoning permit # 24
Mr . Evans explained the difference between what is permitted
with a special permit and variance . He suggested the Planning
Board consider whether medium intensity zone should be one or
two or more zones . If the Township of McLean is medium intensity
and the area on 222 is medium intensity he would say stretching
it too much .
J . MacNeil : I think you should have a high intensity area and then you can
permit all these things there .
Some discussion was held on this by all .
R . Gleason : Hold # 24 .
J . MacNeil : I think we should adjourn and so move .
M . Adams : I second the motion - - motion carried .
R . Gleason : Before we adjourn I would like to mention that our Zoning Board
of Appeals has 4 public hearings on motorized vehicle repair
shops and if you can might be a good idea to go .
The meeting adjourned at 10 : 40 P . M .
Respectfully submitted ,
Fos hine Bell
13 -
STATE OF NEW YORK
EXECUTIVE CHAMBER
HUGH L . CAREY , GOVERNOR
Michael Patterson , Press Secretary
518 - 474 - 8418
212 - 977 - 2716
FOR RELEASE .
IMMEDISATE FRIDAY
DECEMBER 22 , 1978
RR OM STATE OF NEW YORK
IRE AISM1111HEX C111411 EXECUTIVE CHAMBER
MAMM w NA ALBANY 12224
December 22 , 1978
MEMORA1DUM filed with Senate Bill Number 3331 -A , entitled :
" AN ACT to ,amend the real . property law ,
in relation to providing that
condominiums be treated as sub -
divisions , subdivision plats or
plats of real property for purposes
App . # 66 of review by county , city , town and
village planning boards "
Chapter # 793
A P P R O V E D
This bill amends the New York State Condominium Act
to make proposals for the development of certain condominiums
subject to comprehensive review by county planning boards .
What review would cover the J"Mpact of such - developments on . .
local transportation , water , sewage and drainage systems , as
well as other considerations of public health , safety and
welfare .
Under current previsions of law , the only development
proposals subject to such review are those which involve a
" subdivision , subdivision plat or plat of real property . " And
since there are few cases in which condominiums involve a
" subdivision " as that term is defined by law , county planning
boards are in most cases without authority to review the plans
for their development .
Last year I disapproved a bill intended to achieve . the
sane purpose as is intended by this measure. I did so because
it was technically deficient : in concentrating on county planning
boards , it failed to give the necessary recognition to the . role
of other municipal planning boards in the review process ,
While that deficiency has been cured in the bill before
met there are still reasons to be concerned about some of its
terms _ In particular , the bill does not make it sufficiently �
clear that its provisions are intended to apply only to new
condominirm proposals , not to projects already comp ellced ,
Nevertheless , because of the pressing need 'or a
statutory policy requiring the 'subimi. ssi.on of condominium, developT
ment proposals to a comprehensive review of their impact on the
localities in which they are to be situated . I am approving this
bill . I a ; doing so upon the assurance of its sponsor that the
necessary clarifJI. cations will be submitted to the Legislature
for adoption early i. n the forthcoming Session ,
T he b 1111 is appro ved ,
f S -LgI ed ) Hucfh L . Carey
#
ACTION BY GOVERNOR
From
THE LEGISLATIVE INDEX COMPANY
100 So . Swan St , , Albany ; NY
LAWS OF 1978
Chapter 793 ( Memo 66 ) ( Approved December 21 , 1978 )
Senate 8331 -A , by Winikow , et al ° to amend real property law , relative to"providin¢
that condominiums be treated as subdivisions , subdivision plats or plats or real
property for purposes of review by county , city , town and village planning boards .
.o 0 0-
Section 335 Agricultural Activities
Agricultural activities include . production of plants and animals and
plant and animal products in many different combinations and at many
different scales of operation from household poultry flocks -. to
hobbies to fullscale business agriculture . The Agricultural Activi
ties class comprises the following activity types
( 1 ) Household Livestock Production Activity : production of livestock
and livestock products by a houshold for use by the household
conducting the activity .
( 2 ) Homestead Food and Fiber Production Activity : production of
crops , livestock , and related products by a household .for the
household ' s use , but including incidental commercial sales .
These activiteis are normally part-time or subsistance , sometimes
recreational , . and primarily for household use , with commercial
sale of produce not the primary purpose ' of the activity .
( 3) Commercial Farm Headquarters Activity . handling and - storage of
farm products , keeping , feeding , breeding , milking , and ' other
management of livestock ; maintenance , storage , and use of agri-
cultural machinery ; and processing of farm products for use on the
same farm : These activities are normally full - time commercial
agricultural businesses conducted by a business entity .
® ( 4 ) Retail Agricultural Sales Activity : retail sales of agricultural
products in which the retail activity takes place on the same
site and under the same management as the agricultural activity
which produced the agricultural products .
( 5 ) Field and ' Forest Production Activity : management of field , vine -
yard , or orchard crops , graising of livestock , or woodlot or
forest management activities . These activities are associated
with household , homestead , or commercial agricultural . activities
but may be located some distance from the headquarters of those
activities ,