HomeMy WebLinkAbout1978-10-03 • ti
a
GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING
held at the
Town Hall , Groton , New York
Tuesday - October 3 , 1978
8 * 00 PM
PRESENT : R . Gleason - Chairman* G . Evans - Tompkins County
G . Totman - Vice - Chairman* Planning Department *
J . MacNeil*
M . Adams G . Hoy - Chairman of Groton Zon -
D . Payne ing Board of Appeals *
C . Twigg*
L . Raymond* J . Bell - Recording Clerk*
* - Denotes those present .
Before the meeting was called to order a discussion was held
between the members of the Planning Board and Mr . Gordon Hoy ,
Chairman of the Zoning Board of Appeals regarding the new
ordinance for motor vehicle shops and other questions he had
regarding variances and other zoning problems .
Mr . Gleason called the meeting to order at 8 * 20 PM and passed
out copies of the minutes of the last meeting .
R . Gleason: I also have some copies I meant to give out last time - - I don ' t
know , - - proposed rules and regulations for the protection from con -
tamination of the water supply for the city of Auburn and the Town of
Owasco .
(Mr . Gleason passed these out to those who didn ' t have
copies of it already . )
R . Gleason: As I understand it these things have been modified somewhat but '
thought they would be interesting to read through .
Does anybody have any additions or corrections to the minutes ? If
not , they stand approved as read .
Nobody was able to go to the conference at Monticello unless George - -
G . Totman: I am planning on going .
R . Gleason: There ' s some money in the Town to use . Have you got your reserva -
tion yet ?
G . Totman : No , I haven ' t sent it in yet .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . , - - I ' ll give you the brochure .
G . Totman: I had to wait until the middle of the week to be sure but I do plan
on going .
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- R . Gleason: I also have here a brochure on a conference on the future of the
Finger Lakes put out by the Center of Environmental - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
L . Raymond : I ' m on the program .
R . Gleason: Then maybe you want to attend for the Town of Groton Planning Board .
L . Raymond : Sure , that was the one I got before .
; R . Gleason: Here , Cecil , - - this is next week -end , - -here ' s a chance for you to
go to one .
L . Raymond : It ' s a privately financed Center in Rochester .
Mr . Gleason gave a copy of the brochure to Mr . Twigg ,
L . Raymond : They are inviting everybody from 14 counties to this thing .
C . Twigg : Hoping not everybody will come , - -right ?
R . Gleason : ,- If you ' re interested I have an idea you could probably get a little
money from the Town to go to it .
L . Raymond : My way is all paid so I can cover it for you .
R . Gleason: 0 . K . , - -very good , - -I have no old business unless someone else does .
G . Evans : At the last meeting I mentioned there ' s a petition for an agricultural
district in the western part of Groton and I ' ve brought along a map in-
dicating the locations of the properties owned by the petitioners and you
can keep thi & map and it will give you some idea of what is in the wind .
Mr . Evans spread the map out on the table for everyone to look at .
Some discussion was held on the proposed district by G .
Evans , R . Gleason , L . Raymond and others .
R . Gleason: So this is just for our information but we can have an input if we see
a reason to but there ' s probably no particular reason for -us to do so .
G . Evans : At some point the County Planning Department will be making a recommenda -
tion on this as to whether it meets the plans of the development of the area
and we may need some input from your Board .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . , - -well - -actually as soon as the actual boundaries are drawn we
should see it and we can say yes or no .
G . Totman: Probably if there ' s any section in the Town of Groton that wouldn ' t
affect our future plans it would be that part , - - that ' s almost the most
remote area in the Town of Groton .
R . Gleason: Any other comments on this ? I think we should move right along . Thank
you for bringing this to our attention .
C . Twigg : I wonder why these other people aren ' t in there ? It hasn ' t got that
far yet ?
G . Evans : It ' s just they haven ' t signed the petition . Some people think because .
their neighbors have , they don ' t have to .
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R . Gleason : They just don ' t want to commit themselves . If it goes through ,
fine . 0 . K . , - =new business . Has anyone any new business . The only
thing I guessm -
G . Hoy : Can I bring something up at this time ? I have a couple of things I
wondered if it would be possible if we could have the chairman , or a mem -
ber of the Planning Board present at our hearings for variances possibly
for guidance or questions that might be asked that we can ' t answer . I
think she sends you a notice , doesn ' t she ?
R . Gleason: I have received one .
G . Hoy : When we started , - - the other chairman , - -he wanted to be notified so we
notified him but he never showed up . One night we had somebody that
was going to come but he didn ' t so I wondered if she had stopped send -
ing you letters .
R . Gleason: I did receive one last May .
G . Hoy : We had one recently so she might have forgotten but seems she should have
let you know and if she lets you know by letter and you can ' t be there
perhaps you could get someone else to be there and you would know what
we ' re up against and what we ' re doing .
If you were at our meetings we could ask questions or you could
answer some for us better than we could . In fact we were asked
the other night how the zoning ordinance could be changed and - -one
other thing , too , I think it would be a good idea if there was a
form letter to notify people the next day in writing of the results
of the hearing because sometimes they are here for the hearing but
don ' t stay for the vote .
R . Gleason: Actually you have to inform them anyways in writing .
G . Hoy : I don ' t think so , - - I don ' t know .
R . Gleason: Like we have authority to grant subdivisions and have to inform
them in writing .
G . Hoy : The fact here is they know fairly soon because they get the permit if
they are granted the variance but if not oftentimes they just aren ' t
notified . When Dana was here he said he would take care of it and
send them permit but not too long ago granted one to a fellow that had a
lot and someone wanted to buy it and he needed the variance in order
to build and he wanted something written that he could put with his legal
papers and if this was in a - form letter I could sign it the night before
and she could mail it out .
R . Gleason: I would think that would be a good idea .
G . Evans : Sometimes the application form for the variance itself has a space on
it for the decision of the Board .
G . Hoy : I write that in but they don ' t get a copy of it , do they ?
G . Evans : You could certainly send them one .
G . Totman: I would take a photocopy of it and send it to them and that would solve it .
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G . Hoy : 0 . K .
R . Gleason: Any other comments or anything ?
G . Hoy : No , I guess that ' s all I have .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . , - -I hope all of you have done a little homework . Mr . Evans
was here last time and reviewed our Town Planning and Zoning Ordinance
and tonight he is here again and we will continue .
G . Evans : I should start by just fielding any questions you have about the
stuff that I gave you .
R . Gleason : 0 . K . , - - I have a couple .
J . MacNeil : Did you bring any other copies of it , - - I didn ' t get one last time .
Mr . Evans gave Mr . MacNeil copies .
G . Totman: I haven ' t either , - -I wasn ' t at the last meeting .
G . Evans : I have some more copies of this thing so if there ' s anything puzzling
let ' s clear it up .
R . Gleason: I was on the second page and going down through " Signs " you said
realty and then you said business and what , - - is there a difference ?
G . Evans : Realty signs - temporary signs . . . . . . . . . . .
Business sign is a sign identifying services . . . . . . . . . . . . .
R . Gleason: I see .
G . Evans : You see this is a descriptive system which will describe some things
you don ' t want to bother with .
R . Gleason : On the next page - Extensive Impact - under Civic Activities 311 . 2 .
G . Evans : 0 . K . , - -I take it you don ' t have this pamphlet .
R . Gleason: This draft ?
G . Evans : Yes , that ' s it .
R . Gleason : O . K . , - -I didn ' t get . . . .
Mr . Evans read aloud from the section on
Extensive Impact .
R . Gleason : O . K . , - -I ' m sorry , I didn ' t follow through far enough . Then that
takes care of everything .
G . Evans : This is a good example of the thinking behind this description
system , you just describe it in terms of having an extensive impact -you would not permit 311 . 2j here with just a zoning permit . This would
be a special permit item or planned unit item . This allows you to cover
details of how it ' s installed and so on .
Co Twigg0 Which one is this ? This is 310 . 2 non-residential , - -what ' s the
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C . Twigg : difference ?
G . Evans : I get it , - -you got this old one I brought from- Danby , - - it ' s the
wrong one .
C . Twigg : 0 . K .
G . Evans : They have 6 different zones .
C . Twigg : That ' s why I couldn ' t figure - -
R . Gleason: Did you get anything from SEQUA yet ?
G . Evans : On the 20:th of September something came in but hasn ' t come to my
desk yet but think it will soon and should be getting something out to
everyone in the next 3 -4 weeks but it ' s coming .
G . Hoy : What is this usage variance and area variance ?
G . Evans : There are two types of variances - - one is an area variance and
one is usage . Area has to do with lot size , the useage variance has
to do with what is permitted an - like can you , with a variance , have
a non -residential activity in a residential zone if it ' s not permitted ?
Under New York State law it ' s possible but most States don ' t allow it .
I don ' t know , at this point , if you want to go through this table and
talk about what you want in specific districts , - - that ' s not necessary
to do with me here as long as you know how it operates , - -you can make _
those decisions yourselves , - -maybe there are other things you would
like to do tonight .
G . Hoy : Would you explain the zoning permit and special permit ?
G . Evans : A zoning permit is issued by the enforcement officer on his own and
a special permit is different altogether and that is the Town Board may
delegate to its Board of Appeals the power to issue special permits for
certain kinds of things that are significantly unusual and that are to
be reviewed on a case to case basis . In your ordinance you have things
under special permit - - I ' m using the term special permits to mean any
kind of permit where that procedure is required and zoning permit is what
the enforcement officer himself can issue .
G . Hoy : 0 . K .
R . Gleason: On the back of this draft I have is that part of Danby ' s ?
G . Evans : Yes , right .
C . Twigg : You must have given that to all of us .
G . Evans : I ' m beginning to think you ' re right , - - if you have a table for 6 it ' s
Danby ' s , - - the only thing wrong with them is they describe Danby ' s
ordinance instead of Groton ' s , - -however the stuff on the left side
description of different categories is the same in both .
I suggested at the last meeting , in looking through this you might find
some surprises as to what you are permitting and what you aren ' t in the
Town and am anxious to hear if you did , in fact , make any such discoveries .
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R . Gleason : The only thing , - -right off the bat , - -was - -has to do with recreational
trailers , facilities and so on , - -doesn ' t seem to be any provision for them
at all that I can see .
G . Evans : 0 . K . , - -let ' s see what we got .
R . Gleason: It ' s in your listing but we don ' t have if except recreational
camping is in here but recreational cottage or G . Evans : Two items in here , - -recreational cottage or cabin which is presumably
for one person or a small party of people to use and the other is a perman -
ent camp facility which ..is - more like a campground , - -it ' s not residential .
R . Gleason : 310 right , - - 310t .
G . Evans : Your copy doesn ' t include that .
C . Twigg : No , it just goes to g .
G . Totman: That ' s what I thought .
G . Evans : You , too ? I guess what I ' m going to have toldo is stop trying to fake
this and get it all together and published and hand it out in complete
form . In the residential it ' s item h and i recreational cabin and per -
manent camp facilities which would both fit in with what you ' re talking
about - recreational facilities .
C . Twigg : We talked about some of that at the last meeting where the Town of
Danby ran into that where they had land they wanted to set aside for this
purpose .
G . Evans : I think you ' re talking about the experimental - -where they had a dis -
trict in the southwest part of the Town which was being populated ' . by per -
sons of an alternate life style and their buildings were somewhat unusual too
and they got into quite a lot of hot water over it by trying to enforce
their ordinance which didn ' t say anything about that sort of building so
they decided to cook up this category which would cover that kind of
structure and then just permit it in this certain area of the Town .
R . Gleason: In those "permanent camping facilities " under our present ordinance if
someone wanted to go back into a wooded area and buy 20 acres would have to
have 200 ft . frontage on the road which makes it rather difficult for anyone
to do this so there ' s another area we might have to change if we wanted to
do it .
G . Evans : Generally speaking the purpose of the frontage requirement is more
related to urban than rural situations in order to keep buildings spaced out
a little bit so a rural area that 200 ft . frontage doesn ' t serve the same
function .
C . Twigg : But this is what you ' re trying to do - - like the fellow that was
here and couldn ' t get a building permit because he didn ' t have 200 fte
frontage which was a little bit ridiculous , - -he had 70 some acres back there
and wanted to build a house on it but couldn ' t get a permit , - -with this
here it would give us more flexibility in a case like that .
G . Evans : You have that regulation in all 3 districts .
G . Totman: So does the County Health Department .
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G . Evans : NO ,
- - in frontage 200 ft . diameter circle .
G . Totman: O . K . , - -you ' re right .
G . Evans : There are a couple of ways of handling this . One is simply to say
if building certain distance from property line the frontage requirement
can be say 15 ft . or so .
G . Totman: As a Town we would be concerned with what he is doing with the land and
is he going to put in a road that will be acceptable to the Town and so on ,
once we throw out the road frontage .
C . Twigg : You could stop a subdivision , - -as far as a guy building a house that ' s
his problem but when he decides to subdivide it and wants public facilities
than we could say no because you don ' t have the required width of right -of �.
way or frontage so wouldn ' t have to go any further than the one building .
R . Gleason : Right , - -this we would have to spell out that if he wants something
more there are other requirements that go with anything shown .
G . Evans : Another technicality would be to have special road frontage with
special permit and you would have another chance to review it and tell
him just what he is getting into .
G . Totman: A lot of people think it ' s wrong to meddle in their business in the
first place but later they wish you had .
G . Evans : There ' s a time for meddling and it ' s before you let them spend a
great deal of money .
Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , G . Evans
and others .
G . Evans : 0 . K . , - - the ' way I would propose you proceed " is to take this table and
this little booklet - - one in one hand and one in the other hand , - - and
make adjustments in this table to suit you indicating the things permitted
with a zoning permit or special permit or no permits required or not per -
mitted under any circumstances or whatever . Make these indications on this
table and I can rewrite the district regulations .
C . Twigg : We aren ' t going to change these any , - -with these special permits
R . Gleason: We discussed this last time , - -you weren ' t here , George ,- - it looks a
lot easier to put special permit • in - -
G . Totman : I ' ve always said that but with our attorney - - -
R . Gleason: You and I have always said that - - and not try to write any particular
zoning because we can ' t really anticipate where anyone might want to do
G . Totman: The purpose of zoning is to direct it in certain areas but you have
to be flexible enough so that you ' re not going to lose some necessary in -
dustries .
C . Twigg : We want their tax base .
G . Totman : That ' s right .
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R . Gleason: The . way our zoning is setpup , it appears to me , - - this is my per -
sonal opinion , - -we have said we ' d like some industries or commercial
in the medium intensity zone . However , things have not precisely worked
out that way . There are still some areas it would be good to have it
in but the agricultural district is large enough that any number of
activities could be permitted if we had special permits so they can ' t
go Willy -nilly anywhere . Because , really the agricultural zone covers
almost everything now .
Lyle , you have a list of things here , - -what do you have ?
L . Raymond : I wasn ' t sure I was ready to come out in the open . It might not
stand the light of day .
G . Evans : As I understand the kind of thing you were talking about , - -basically
a concrete or gravel p - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - , or something like that , - - that
would fit in with heavy manufacturing activities and on this table , of
your permitted activities , heavy manufacturing is not indicated anywheres .
It ' s sort of implied but not really stated veryc:clearly that it could be
permitted through planned unit development and in your present ordinance
if you made it clear that things not indicated here could be permitted
for planned unit development or something to that effect .
R . Gleason: I think when we originally wrote this , - -but I kept bringing it up
to our attorney and he said no .
G . Evans : There ' s a narrow and broad definition of planned unit development and
narrow has to do primarily with residential development and broad takes
in anything and if you have a minimum size area for planned unit develop -
ment of say 3 or 5 acres I think you ' re talking implicitly about narrow
difinition but 50 or more acres you would be talking about the broad de -
finition . But say if it ' s 10 acres or more than heavy manufacturing is
permitted through planned unit development procedures .
R . Gleason: Could there be two different ones ?
G . Evans : There ' s nothing to keep you from saying planned unit development
couldn ' t be 3 acres .
R . Gleason: 0 . K . we could have two classifications ?
G . Evans : Sure ,
R . Gleason: O . K . , - -are you ready , Lyle ?
L . Raymond : I can say that , in looking at the categories here , I think it ' s very
useful and precise . It ' s very obvious , at least in my opinion , that we
do need to go over some of these categories very carefully . I ' m really
surprised , - -for instance about public and private utilities , - - if I in-
terpret this correctly they are not permitted in any of these areas . Per -
haps this situation should be rectified .
It ' s very obvious in looking at that and some of the other facilities we
need to go over that and consider if one of those categories , not only
where they are ostensively not permitted , - -perhaps they should be . Also
we are permitting some of them that we didn ' t intend to . . The only thing
I have been doodling with here , - -I ' m not sure it ' s a viable concept but
I ' ll expand on it as far as my thinking goes . It seems to me if you
were thinking about , - - at least if I was thinking about any of these
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L . Raymond : activities , some more than others , that would be permitted in the
Town , - -another factor that should be considered is what requirements
the State and County might already require for some of them and whether
it would be necessary for the Town say to worry about some of the zoning
classification permits and so on if some of the State laws , - - some of the
newer State laws , - -are going to cover some of that anyways .
What Roger saw me doing here was listing all the State and County laws
that might apply and I was wondering , - - if not officially but as a guide , - -
if you could add on to the category of say public utilities - - have some
symbol that tells us this is already good to be looked at under SEQUA
or some other requirement and then give us some basis for changing , as
far as we ' re concerned , - -maybe the State requirements are sufficient to
protect our interests or , on the other hand , maybe they don ' t meet our
requirements and we would want to have additional Town requirements ,
Am I analyzing this clearly as far as SEQUA is concerned , As I under -
stand it any permit or license that is granted by New York agency may
possibly require SEQUA Type 1 or 2 , The more permit and license require -
ments you would have , as a New York Agency , the more problems you might
have with the SEQUA assessment law . I ' m not trying to knock it but is
this going to result in more paper work?
G . Evans : The revisions that have been made in SEQUA have been to make Type 1
list shorter , fewer things and these are the things also that the Town
would be most acutely interested in reviewing ,
L . Raymond : I was just saying keep the symbols on the chart on the ones we ' re
most acutely interested in rather than a lot of paper work that we
wouldn ' t want .
Stream protection , wetlands , SEQUA , mine lands are some of the things I
can think of right off and they would have requirements on some of these
activities it would be useful for the Town to know the State is going to
cover those and we should look and see if they would cover our requirements ,
G . Evans : Let me make two comments , One the usual mechanism is simply to say
whichever is more stringent applies . If the State law is less stringent
than Groton ' s is the one to follow , Second comment is I have a new one
of those State regulations to mention tonight , - - the Department of Trans -
portation requirement for curb cuts for commercial
DOT has mandated that review design of driveways and so on so this would
have to be a part of your permit procedure for any commercial development
or apartment complex on a State highway so this is an example of what is
attached to multi -unit residential buildings ,
L . Raymond : Something like that possibly , I wondered , - -could it be used as a
guide ?
C , Twigg : They have always had some kind of requirements - - when Peruville
built that church there on the corner there were some State requirements
that they had to meet maybe because it was a public facility - - they
wanted to know how many cars , - -how far from the 4 - corners the driveway
was going to be and they looked that all over and then came back and
said O , K ,
G . Evans : I ' m not at all sure that this is new , - - it ' s just new to me and I ' m
just passing it on ,
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Some discussion was held on this by C . Twigg , G .
Evans , L . Raymond and others .
J . MacNeil : Can ' t you just specify if all State , County and health requirements
are met then a permit will be granted rather than if it meets SEQUA re -
quirements or the Bureau of Mines ' or whatever ?
G . Evans : You could do that but it ' s not all that - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Further discussion was held on this by G . Evans , L .
Raymond , J . MacNeil and others .
G . . Totman: Where do we stand with you right now? Do I read you clearly , - -
what you ' re saying is to have a meeting by ourselves and decide what
we want and then get back to you ?
G . Evans : You can do it that way or I can be at the meeting , - - it ' s just I
don ' t want to insinuate my own feelings . If you understand how the
system works , my role in deciding what goes where is minimal .
G . Totman: What I ' m thinking is if we had just one meeting to decide what
we want and everybody comes with their papers marked up and nothing
else goes on at that meeting and that we vote on it .
R . Gleason: You have to get some copies made ?
G . Evans : Yes and I ' m going to try to get it all wrapped up into one con -
sistent version and get it to you .
C . Twigg : Tomorrow morning ?
G . Evans : Probably not before coffee break !
G . Totman : And you would get those to Roger so he could get them to us a
couple of weeks before our next meeting ?
R . Gleason: 0 . K . and then at our November meeting - -
G . Totman: If he gets them to us it will take a couple of weeks to go over it .
G . Evans : After looking it over if you think I would be useful at your Novem-
ber meeting I would be glad to come .
R . Gleason: What is the feeling of the Board ?
G . Totman: I would just as soon have him here if we ' re prepared .
C . Twigg : But we should be prepared . We should each one of us go over each
item .
G . Totman: Then you know what you want and the majority vote rules .
R . Gleason : A power line is differentiated from substation .
G . Evans : In this system they pretty well roll together . It ' s all pretty much
the same kind of thing and you would deal with a substation and power line
and so on in pretty much the same way .
R . Gleason: 0 . K . , - - so what I was thinking of was power line , - - like a high line
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R . Gleason: but where do you draw the line when an electric company business line
down the road a mile or two , - -would that be something we would be involved
in?
G . Evans : They already have a right - of -way so the answer to that is no .
R . Gleason: 0 . K .
Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , C . Twigg , G .
Evans and others .
G . Evans : I had some stuff to hand out tonight , which is appropriate to do
now , which will be the next step after the meeting you have and that is
once you have decided what you want to permit in each district then you
need this sort of thing .
(Mr . Evans passed the papers out to all present . )
G . Evans : Start with the second page , - -Section 601 , - -I renamed your agricul -
tural district I see , - -O . K . , - -well , anyhow , this is supposed to be the
same as your Agricultural A Zone . Simply take the information and write
it up . This is the format that I have used in the past and if you like
it I can continue .
Now if you ' ll look at 601 . 5 , - - this is ther.nub of the matter we have been
discussing this evening . Things that require a zoning permit - - 601 . 62
601 . 7 permitted with special permit and so on . This would be the list
of items that you had decided would be permitted and under what type of
permit in that district . Now this list of items here is from your pre -
sent ordinance for illustration purposes .
R . Gleason: So our new list could go along with the classifications you have in
here depending on what we want ?
G . Evans : Yes , - - there ' s one sort of suggestion I could Make and that is there ' s
a category of activities which I think is useful to recognize in a rural
area which you don ' t have in your ordinance at all and , for want of a
better name , have called it Limited Impact Activities and that ' s non-
residential activities in existing non-residential facilities in rural
area . What this means is if there ' s a building and somebody wants to use
it for some purpose they can do so . So having a category of permitted
activities of limited impact permits this kind of activity to be allowed .
R . Gleason : With a special permit .
G . Evans : Could be , - -I would suggest that . In the Town of Ulysses on the
highway there ' s an old dairy building , - -concrete block , - -will be standing
there forever and hasn. ' t been used as a dairy for 25 years so it ' s just
standing there and thegguy who owns it takes decent care of it , - -keeps
the weeds down and that sort of thing but they bent over backwards trying
to figure out how to let someone use that building without violating their
own zoning ordinance but they can ' t - - they don ' t have that in their
ordinance - - they could let someone use it illegally but if anyone objected
they would be in hot water for quite awhile . There ' s no need for it there .
This is a recognizable useful way to use that facilities , - -why not let it
be used for non-residential purposes if you impose certain limitations on
it such as no outdoor storage of materials and so on . This is something I
would suggest that you consider . I don ' t know if there area supply of
buildings like that in Groton or not .
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L . Raymond : This could also involve new buildings that were built as dairy barns
- one example I know of is in the Town of Boonsville - - now they are using
a barn for a center for the Uranian Secret Police , - - this is the largest
dairy barn in the whole County and it is being used for that !
G . Evans : In this booklet these kind of things are on the last page - -
restricted - - impact enterprises in non -residential facilities . That ' s
the idea behind this list of categories . These are items that appear
elsewhere but they appear here because of their suitability for this
particular situation .
C . Twigg : In other words , these things may be duplicated several times .
G . Evans : Actually there are a few duplications in a few of them . Also in the
materials I handed out if you look at the first two pages Sections 601 . 1
through 601 . 4 . This is the yard frontage , yard depth , actual facility
dimensions and so on from your existing regulations in a different format .
I included a few questions like minimum lot areas you have requirements
here with regard to number of dwelling units and I asked the question
should there be a lot area requirement per rooming unit as well , - - some -
thing to consider .
G . Totman: Under 601 . 1 non-residential under square feet is there a 4 ha .
G . Evans : That ' s hectare . That ' s the metric system creeping in .
L . Raymond : Each hectare is a bit more than 2 acres .
G . Evans : 2 . 47 so 5 acres and 2 hectares are about the same . Down a little
farther you ' ll see 20 , 000 sq . ft . or 2 , 000 ca that stands for centare -
- one centare is about 10 sq . ft .
Now this looks much like a suggestion and I suppose I might as well own
up to it and I do suggest you get the metric measurements into your
ordinance now so people get acquainted with them because that day that
will arrive not too far in the future when the metric system is recognized
as the only one for legal transactions you ' ll already have it in your
ordinance .
C . Twigg : It would be alright if we put them both in .
G . Evans : Right and in your general regulations you say in any given application
can chose one system or the other .
G . Totman : Excuse me , - - seems to me I read when Canada completely went to the
metric system did an analysis as to the best way to do it and they decided
it would be less confusing if they _just went to the;: riew system and let
everybody be confused for a couple of months and learn it . That way it
forced them to study what the new system is .
Some discussion was held on this by G . Totman , R . Gleason ,
C . Twigg and others .
R . Gleason: It ' s about ten o ' clock and I think we should close up shop .
G . Evans : May I make one more comment . I think some of the things which were
mentioned with regard to the Board of Appeals . I reviewed the Groton
ordinance and the section on appeals seems to me to be quite a lot less
detailed than it should be . There ' s a lot of material the Board of
Appeals not only could review but is actually required to review that
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G . Evans : is simply not mentioned in that section so I think what I ' ll try
to do at the next meeting is to bring an appeals for variance article
for your perusal which will give you a more complete document to work
with ,
G . Totman: Also need criteria on what they need to grant a variance .
G . Hoy : There are a lot of variances I couldn ' t see any problem with until we asked
questions and threw them out . I ' ll never make a decision until after we
have heard all that is to be heard .
G . Totman: . It ` s good to hear from someone on the Appeals Board that does that .
G . Evans : What I ' m talking about is a list of questions to ask . It doesn ' t
restrict the power of the Board it just indicates what the New York State
Courts feel are pertinent questions the Board has to be satisfied on . I
think you ' ll find it very useful .
R . Gleason: I have invited Gordon to come . Matter of fact it probably wouldn ' t
hurt if some other members of your Board would come too .
Our next meeting will be the first Tuesday in November , - -November 7th , - -
wait a minute that ' s election day , - -I guess we won ' t meet here , - -we could
probably meet somewhere else .
After some discussion it vas decided Mr . Totman is to find out
whether the meeting can be held at the McLean Fire Station and
Colleen Pierson will send out an agenda to all before the next
meeting .
J . MacNeil moved the meeting be adjourned which was seconded by
G . Totman and carried unanimously .
The meeting adjourned at 10 * 05 P . M .
Respe fully submitted , ((��
Jo eph ne Bell
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