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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-11-14 GR TDN TOWN BOARD PUBLIC HEARINGS Monday , 14 November 1994 Board [*absent) Qthers Present Teresa R-obinson , Supervisor Francis J . C; asu ] lo , Town Attorney Colleen D . Pierson , Clerk L. Cornelius , Town Highway Superintendent Donald Cunirninp F. Brennan , Town 13ookkeeper Carl Haynes Public in Attendance (see atL' ached list) I,c%vts Sovocool The Public Hearing was opened at 7:35 p .m , by Teresa Robinson, Town Supervisor. This Xcering was a continuation of the Public Hcadng held 7 Novemt= 1994 re Zding the Town Budget, T. Robinson; These are the recornrnended changes that have been made . (T. Robinson Uhen reads page 1 , verbatirn , of the "Recommended Changes in I995 PrtIiminairy Bu dge t` -as appended to this record . ) These are all the increases and decreases uFe are making to the Preltmtnary Budget- The changes on page 2 are in the General Fund . (T. Robinson then reads , verbatim , page 2 of the Preliminary Budget , entitled " Summary of Fiscal Budget by Funds for 1995 . 1 The decrease is 8 . 3114 in operating budget (appropriations) from 1994 , and total taxes for operating budget would be $502 , 780 for an increase of 3 . 58% . For the past three years , taxes have decreased 3. 9 . 73% , Are their any questions? H. Leaver: I 'm j u s L going on back to what I Calked about the last , It' s OA51aO, 2 where you put the budget down to zero - - took it all out so there's nothing in this category- Is that the way you ' re going to Itave It? You don' t think anybody needs any equipment? T. Robinson: I think we 've arranged It so that next year, depending an haw the }Fear goes , there are monies the have in there and monies that we can , . , B. Leaver: From where? T. Robinson : Well - - the monies that we have in the Building 1,and that we are going to Dave after we get our PA system in . B. Leap: So how much do you plan on having left over there? What was that money intended for on ina.11y? T. Robinson : The building- s. Leaver: Excuse me , what was that money intended for originally ? T. Robinson ; It was a Building Fund , B. Leaver: That was a Building Fund , not Equipment Fund? It was never in the Equtpruent Fund? T. Robinson : No , B. Bernhardto where do you ,het the money In case he blows a diesel engine or sornething? We 're talki ng a preLty expensive piece of equipment -- 10. 000 . where do we get that from? T, Robinson : Well , we ' ll see what ime have in the buclgeL at the time . If WC don ' t, well have to borrow it. Town of Groton Public Hearing November 14, 1994 ' B. Bernhardt: Historically , by looking back through all of the preliminary budgets , you find that that particular account where you have been buying a lot of equipment or whatever it Is , has been over $60, 000 a year. T. Robinson : Yes . B. Bernhardt: Over 60. T. Robinson : Right . B . Bernhardt: Now for us to believe that we ' re not going to spend anything in that account - - I find it hard to believe . T. Robinson : This is one piece of machinery - - or two pieces of machinery . It is not machinery in the sense of the . . . . B. Bernhardt: I understand that, But if you blow the motor in that loader - - hey , you're talking about a lot of money to get a motor like that . T. Robinson : I 've told you this for years . B. Bernhardt: But now we 're budgeting -- I 'm fighting against tak.ing all that out . There 's other places where you might want to consider taking the money out - - or at least leaving it there . Then we know for sure , if it happens , that money was in that account and we don ' t have to transfer funds from , something else . The Building Fund you're talking about is under the Highway Budget? T. Robinson : No . Actually it's a separate budget. B. Bernhardt: Under. . . T. Robinson : Building , B. Bernhardt: General Fund? T. Robinson : No. Under Building, B. Bernhardt: Well we only have two different categories . One is General Fund and one is the Highway Department, T. Robinson: And we have a Building Fund . B. Bernhardt: Well we don't have it now. 1 don ' t see it in my budget. T. Robinson: It's not in the budget. It's a Building Fund . B. Bernhardt: Do we ever see a report that shows how much money we have in the Building Fund ? T. Robinson : I have an amount that we have . The Building Fund is for when we built this building and you wanted to have an audio system , and the money you want for the audio system is coming out of this Building Fund. B. Bernhardt: I didn' t ask you where to get the money from . I just told you it's a small item compared to some of the things we 've done . Now -- when do the people , the taxpayers , get an opportunity to have an accounting where you ' ll show us how much money is in the Building Fund? B. Leaver: And where it carve from and how many years it took you to build it, and so forth? Did you get it all in one year? Were we taxed one year for the Building Fund? 2 Town of . Groton Public Hearbig November 14, 1994 & Berhhardt; Give me a ballpark rn ,arnber. What are we talking about here In the Building Fund , I T, bi�xsonI> $304". B. Leaver ; ] low much? T. Rn neon; ,000. B. Leaver: Okay, you gat something to snow pis that? B . Bernhardt; What kind of a fijnd Is this . Carl? C. Haynes : It's a Capital Fmnd that. was set up for the building We built- B, l.cav+er: When was i L s�e t up? I 4 Ha"es: 1989 Or 1990. We built the building 1n '89 , B. Leaver; You paid cash for Lhe building , correct? So you must have had the money before you built the building . 8o it had to originate before you built the building , How many years did ft take you to raise it, I guess? B . Bernhwdt: 2) o wcjust go into this Building Fund and transfer Rinds? B. Leavier: What do you have to sliow for it? T. Rabigson : I have a Building fund to show for it. B. Leaver; i kay, . wha►t do you have on Faxes - - an accounting of it, I guess, is what I 'm talking about. T. Robinson - Well vie .have to accoi).T) t for it , We have the money An a fund and we have the papers for it , B. Bernhardt: Well who do you account to for it? T. Robinson : "Ilic auditors, B. Bernhardt: But we never see the audit report. In fact, (tie auditors sit up front and we can' t even hear what they're saying. We 're not even allowed to ask them questions , in fact. Who do you account to il. for other than yourselves? Anybody? T. Robinson : Who do we accolant to IL for? B, Bernhardt : Yes - T. Robinson LThe Mate . B. Benibatrdt: But you don ' t, account to iL to the taxpayers of the Town where yTau got the money from ? 'T'. RoWnson . Yes we do. It has Lo be put JnLo the budget. B. Berahardt ; Where in the budget? T. Rnbinson ; Not this budget. Into our annual 1Meport. B. �ft: And I that plat out here for the people to see? 3 . - 1 Town of Grutoin Public bearing November 14, 1994 T. Robinson : Yes, B. Bernhardt: Okay . B. Leaver: Can you tell me .how- much money is currently left in DA5130 . 2 Equipment? How much mono is left over from 1994? Dated 9130194 - - I nottced you bought; a Lruck, I rcaIized you spent $21 ,000, L. SOV00001L You can Kook at 1. 994 . what's been spent, and that should have that there . B. Leaver; The only other question I had is last year you had $90, 000 for equ Ip men L what happened to that? Did you take it Out for some other reason? L. Sovo"el : 'Arhat's that ntjmber again Bill'? 113, Leaver. DA51 d0, 2 . T. Robinson: How much Morley was expended so rar? B. Leaver: Okay. What did you have in your IDudget this tune East year - - November a 1994 , T. Robinson ., I don 't know , H. Leaver: This sheet I have says $90,000 , L. Sovocool: That says e pernded for '93 , B. Leaver: I 'm an the proposed budget for '1994 . I 'm not looking a the niadlfied budget. I 'M looking at proposed . Sowhat my question was when I came in the door was - - and I didn ' t get an answer for - - is if that was proposed budget, what 'slid you actually put in the budget? � What was the budget in the encl? Was it: t1ie 90, Opp , And you 're telling us . it's going to be zero this year, You ' re not going to change anything this year, so last year you had $90 ,000 - in it - - so whaL did you do with it? You 've got modifiled as 1 ,080. L. Cornelius : Wr,] ] , we spent 40 some thousand in the spiAng- L. Brennan; And that also had to be reduced because we didn ' t have the appropriated fund balance that we should have at the ertd of the year. B. Leaver: So what die! you spend? I 'm just asking a question , L. Brennan. It got reduced from that: 90 to 50 at the begfirning of the year. And out of that 50. . - C. Haynes: According to the October 31. report, there was $2 . 900 left there . And when thr, truck was paid for, you re down to a caupIc thousand dollars . S. Leaver, Here , on this, as of September 30 , it showed different. What else did you buy? Hcre 's what It says for modified at the last rneeting which was last Monday night - - you showed 51 , 0W. And you showed expended for ' 94 12 , OD0, so that's more than $2.3 , 000 , You apparently spent: more money on another truck if these numbers are correct. C. Dynes ; This shows teat October 3 Zst: was $ 15, 000 encumbered for something. L, Brennan : That was the other pickup truck. B, Leaver: That would be right , then . C. Hay-new That's the difference, 4 ' . Town lDf Groton Public Hearing November 14, 1994 JE1. Leaver: Again I ' d like to know why you figure you can go zero for the year. I'd like to ee some money in ibis account. From I guess your SraiIdI ng Fund -- I thought that was the Equipment end -- but apparently it 's a BuIIdIog Fend. T, Robinson , We have an Squipment Fund and we have a Building Fund . They zre two different things, B. Leaver: How much is your Equiprncnt Fund? Is Chore Borne sel: aside to be built up? Maybe that doesn't show bn here or does it? T. Robinson .' No , L, Brennan : Presently we have got $26 , COO in that and , _ , _ , , . , . , rxioving .$ 2,01000 irz this year. B. Leaver; So how much are we; going to end up with in thai: account are you telling us? YoiA,e got $ 0 , 000 from what she 's talking about and how much money from this Building Fend ? L. Brennan : They're in reserve. They're not in the operating budget. So ii` an cruergency came about. we could use that to buy , , , . . B. Leaver: So what you 're saying is you 're going to pu t that one fu nd to zero because you 've got an emergency fund to cover you if you need it. Is that a vise decision"? .end the other statement you just said - - one t}� in , I think the Town of roton 's done one heck of a job by never borrowing money . You 're statement was if you needed to , you 'd borrow money , "T. lxobfaxsoyi : we've never had to borrow money, , . , B. Leaver, Excuse me -- let me finish . Do you feel that the taxpayers want the Town of �' Groton to cut out 504 now and have qas borrow money? hat are you going to do five years down the road? 1 realise this equipment maybe can get you down the road a few years , but what are you going to do if you need two or three trucks? What are you going to do then? !tire you going to deplete it all now -- and you have been putting it dawn a little bit in the last couple years anyway , If you take it to zero and wait for emergency Funds -- I thought emergency funds were for emergencies. In past years you 've had a fund and 1 would just like to know whore you are a] ] coaxing from - - five years down Lhqu, road , 1 plan on being in Groton. maybe another ten years . I 'd hate to see my taxes dou!) lc five years from now Just because we save 504 now. T. Robinson : well , I 'll. tell you the truth. I put the $6.0.000 in there, and 1 also Look it out, B. Leaver: First of all, why dId you put it in there then? T, Robinson: 1 punt in there because l wanted to build a Band . g. Leaver, Why was it you did that last year and the year before and the year before? It 's been done every year except this year, Last year you didn 't put anything in it. I did see one place in garbage whore you put it In and took it out . I can understand if it was 7�cro last: yehar and you put in . some money this year to take it back vp and make something look good . I can understand that . But when we 've had a Fund in there every year, you 've never taken it. to zero before - - my question is , again, why do you want to put zero this time? Do you think it's good for Ole Town of Groton? T. Robin&om i personally don't want to put it to zero , B. Leaver: Then why did you do it then? I should maybe re- phrase that , T. Robinson : You know, I 'm not the only person here . B. Leaven Okay. Then let's ask the rest - - why did you do it, then? What's the reason for it? . . Baynes: I,et me just speak to Lhe more general question . We (IJdn ' t do the 60 , OQ0 , That was worked out by some other people , 'Hawn of Groton Pubbe Hearing November 14, 1904 B . Leaver: Who? C. Haynes: I assume the two people right hire_ �. Leaver: Okay -- you was not there then' C. Haynes: NON B, Leaver. Then let one direct my question to theni . , . C. Haynes, Can I answer_ B. Leaver, Well , I'd just Like my question answered _ , Haynes: J1I get back to It , but i wanted to articulate at least the overall problems we were dealing with when we dealt with the budget report_ If }you take a look at Just the 1-Ilgh ay Fund wh Ich is the focus you ' re looking at right now . The original preItminary budget had thsi: budget at $502 , WON That' s the highway , To nwwide budget . The 1994 budget was at $4944000, The estimated actual expendii: ure out of that budget this yeajr, out of $494 ,000 , is $315 , 000 , In other words , we ant [cIpate Lander-spending that budget by I I I I L actually, Liz , we modified that budget down to $4 51000 didn'twc"? I 've got that periciled in here . I think that was modified back to 465 . We're actually estimated t.o spend $315 ,000. Su wher] we had a budget rrieeting, it was looking like the very first prelimiria,ry budget , like a 20% increase in taxes , I didn ' t want to sit here and talk to anyone about a a Inerea,se in takes, We had to come through and cut this back to where It was going to be reasonable _ So what We dId is say all right, look we can cut - - and It was the same story with cutting a] 1 these other funds -- from 465 down to $4 6, i GDL That's still 100 ,000 more than actually spent this year. When the faard left that ineeting, it was really up to the Supervisor a d Superintendent or Highways to figure out how they wanted to allocate Lhat money . As far as I ' m concerned , that' s their decision , It still can be their decision as far as I 'm concerned , whether we -want to cut machizxery back or Trot -- than, too we , should be the Superintendent 's decision, 18ut what. . we ' re saving to the Hoard is -- ai� d if you loA at wliat3s happening to the fund balance here , . ID cc au so we ' re ustng up the fund balance -- it actually means he can't spend a heck of a lot more than lie spent this year, or he ' s going to be in wor3c trouble next. year. B. Leaver: [To L. Cornelius) You was part of that equips-rent decision , then? L. Cornelius; No , I wasn't , B . Bernhardt: I Dave a problern with what was said here, Basically th is I 've found ir7 the past by Ioolong ar the budgets -- when we say this Is w11at we spent this year, this is for nine months , I found that 40 to 4 % more is - spent during those last three months . Maybe it's because people are saying -- gee, i got a lot of money In my fund balance , Now's the time to spend ft before the end of the year , don 't know , but If you lock back through the budgets , you will find 40 to 45% more gets spent - - than already spent -- after nine months during the last three months . Now if you're Cal kJng 300 and some thousand , you 're talking another T20, 000 that's going to get spent if it follows the trencl for the past four or five years . C. Haynes: I can Eels you what the isend Is in that budget, Bob , okay? Last year was 418 ; the yi ax before 250 : Lhe }rear before that 311 . Now the year we did Lhat 418 and ft doubled up . eve bought a big truck. We leave been investing a lot of money in equipment , I think that's part of what Teresa's thinking is mere that we 've pumped a lot of money into equipment the last five years - " but that 315 ,♦ OD is the estimated year-end average _ Am I correct, Liz" Okay , She went through and projected for the year end , B. Rernhardt: It ' s difficult to follow this budget, I 'm in the business of doing financial statements and this thing has got so much stuff in it that doesry ' t mean anything, what we spent last year. That's for year- to- date . That 's for the whale year. if yuu can' t compare it, w11y even put it in there? What happens is we don 't know wiLhobt pulling out last yea,'s . budget hour we can compare it t'a anything else . And the year before -- how to Compare that to it, 1 said this to you a year ago , two years ago , this thing's kind ormeaningless - - there's a lot of stuff that doesn ' t mean anything to the average Town of Groton PubUr Hearing November 14. 1994 11) erson . WCre wasting paper printing this because people don ' t understand what you 're talking about anyway, This is great , the way it is right noiwi for this group to set down and go through it and say what are we expending in each account , But It doesn ' t mean anything for someone anJy?ing the budget. ft doesn't mean nothing. And you can get so confused by all the stuff that's i n there and you can wind up spending all kinds of money and not even know it. . Haynes: To say it doesn 't mean any �.hin is an Incorrect stattyment , Tu say it's confusing -- I agree with you . It's a very complicated systtm , I 've been on the Board now six or seven years acid it Look me the first couple of years to )•rally understand this, And I 'm used to worklrig with budgets , B. Bernhardto Where are you tequlred to have to p u L it in that foirnat? L. Brennan (while B . Bernhardt talking at same tine) ' The State requires you to put It In that Format . H. Bernhardt ( while Lb Brennan saying above) : There ' s only flee triings you 're required to put into a preliminary budget — f€ve things. It doesn ' t say it has to be that foniiat. If we , _ . L4 Brennan: The Mate requires you to . , , H. Bernhardt: Excuse me just a mom ei) t, please . If we accompanied this with some additional irnfomladonI it would be very meaningful . I 'll bet you could get a poll of people to town and ask what's ' D41 p, 4 -- you couldn 't find five people could tell you what that is. . ]Haynes ; Why should they know"? H . BermhaWt: Whalls the sense putting a budget out if we don 't even know it is. Hour sari Wa talk Intelligently about it if we don't know what tt is? The only thing we can look at is what has the total budget been in the past -- what was it the year before -- what were the different categories -- and how are we doing this year? And i have some problems with how we 're doing this year. Not that the budget is Mat bad -- Ire got some problems with sorne things I can't I11nd the answers to. T. Robinson: with what are yoU having a problem? B. Bernhardt: Well - - Bill has the 17oor, . , . H. .1[ ver: Well Tm not done yet because they haven't answered you . . , . B. Bernhardt: Go ahead . Go ahead , Hill, B . Leaven You finish and I ' ll go back to it , E. Moran ; Just a minute -- I 've IIstened to Mr. Bernhardt and e I I I - - for a second . You go hacks to the equipment item right? You're talking about an equipment item where you put zero In . And years before you bought new equiprnexlt. Here's a marl over here who says how are you going to take case of a motor on a loader if It goes wrong? Well , that's not budgeting, That's dreaming. Bill , 1 don ' t know what to hell you 're talldng about , B. Leaver: What I ' m talking about, Ed , . . , E, Mor= : Well got It in Borne sense , B. Leaver: Every gear they've needed an equipment fund and this year they took it to zero , Our Superintendent has good equipment , he has maintained his equ € pment and wc don ' t have a lot of breakdowns, and I want to know why they don't want to continue the pat} they've been going , 1 think the Town of Groton has never borrowed any money and 1 think that's great . I think they should build it up and keep a fund . >y. i4doran : Now listen to what you said . You rhave got the maintenance of equipment Involved In new equiprent - - am I correct? 7 Town of Groton Publie I fearing November 14, 1904 B. Leaver; I ' m not talking rnaintcnance I ' m talking, , , , E. )Moran : T 1at's what you just got through talking about_ EL Leaver; T guess what 1 mean 15 he has his equipment on a matriftenance schedule and every so often . , , . . , E . Moran : You dun 't know what: you 're talldng about . That's a difi'erent item . (At this time E . Moran , B . Leaver, and H , Bernhardt all talked at t11e scone tine with raised vokcesj F. Casullo: Hang on for a second , 'Phis is a public hearing , The questions have to be directed to the Board , we cannot have this fin leracIlon amongst p cop le . The quesUons have to be tp the Hoard ; the Board responds and you move onto the next question , Give one person the floor, and then move on , Finish up with here and then go on . B. Leaver: I ' m back to nay question wily we 've needed that account every other year and now you 're putting it to zero . Apparently you don 't need thaf acco+ant any more , T. Robinson : Are you asking or telling? B. Leaver: I guess I 'm asking you , You 've needed it , YouVe had it every other year for }low many years. This year you 're putting it to 7�ero so that must mean you don 't need it. why have an account if there's nothing in Lhere ? T. Robinso�i : y preliminary budget eras for $ 60 , 000 . I 'm the one that buts out the preliminary budget. And my budget says $60, OOOI E. Leaver: Can I ask one more question ? Why did you Cake it ail out then? That puts it to zero_ I 'm to Lfiing about wrc budget, You took it a] I out. T. Robinson: we had a chance to go iavtr it and to try try put how we're going to, . . , . Vifhen I asked . Mr. Cornelius about it, lie said if there isn ' t enough 17) oney0 to Cut it. L. Cornelius : We11. we had enough money in the road Fund , You don't Want to Cut that hack 50 or $60, 000 and not have enough for the guys to do all summer, B. Liver: You heard what be - said , right? T. Robinson ; Yes, and. . . . . H, Leaver-, He said it's kind of foolish to do it_ what's the answer to it? L. Cornelius : There 's only so much . An if you ' re going to take it out of AKling the roads for the sur=er, you might better leave it In the road fia nd as to put it in the equipment rup. d . B. Leaver: So you 're saying that If you need something you 're going to tale it from die road Band and cut that. Urn just trying to figure out what 's going on , Ijust don ' t understand it. T. Robinson : Oh , p] ease . I gave hire a choice of what he . wan ted to do , and he 's not happy and ['m not happy, but we had to do something to get the budget down_ And that's what we decidtd to do_ B. Leaver: I personally think the Town is a] I about. Ehe roads and taking care of the roads and so forth . Bellcve rne , that' s what I think the Town 's all about. And I guess it 's getting away from that. T. Robinson_ Mr, Cornelius has bent over backvwards_ , _ , B. Leaver: He's done a hell of a job, okay. Town of Groton 'Public Hearing November 14, 1994 T. Robinson : Let rile Finish . He 1) as clone a tremendous Job of managing the highway and he 's used the material , and I 've tried to , through the yearrs , to maintain a machinery lurid for hirn, L. Cornelius : Even last year we had $60, 000 - - we never had over 70 or 80. 000 in there anyway, but we can buy a ncw .truck and because we keep the is-ueks up, I carp get at least $60, 000 tradf, in _ You're talking, 100. 000. 1f you go over the I year period , you 're not going to get It, that's all , when I came here we had old trucks that weren 't tvcn safe to drive , You're going to pay a lot more than $ 50, 000 if you let them go nvcr your period , 13. Leaver: So you '.re saying that 's not good what you ' re doing. L. ComeRus6 I think you ought: to keep the program , B. Leaver, Personally, I 'd likf, to see Corny continue the same maintenance program with his equipment, and I don 't mean fixing and rppatring - - i m s mean replacing , I think he ' done a lieck of a Job with good equlprnent, and I I-hink Ifyotz don 't keep It, five years down the road you 're going to be borrowing a ton of money to buy what you need to buy and the prices will be higher and everything else . I've a suggestion that I don't think $60, 000 is going to make or break you , I can 't. believe it would , also can ' t believt you took it all out , T. Robinscm : Then you L hink the $ 60. 000. sh o u ld be added to the Laxcs, then '? B. ]Leaver: ] think his maintenance program should continue like It has been , I think we should continue . T. Robinson : You dIdn ' t answer my question , Bw Leaver: l think you should cut someplace else , okay? AS we kuow, everything Is going up . Let me ask you a qucMlon , Do yom think it 's better to do zero now and five years from now raise taxes big time . maybe you 're gone , maybe he ' s gone, well I Intend to still he a property owner in the Town of 0 roton ten years ftou now. I don ' t want to see my Mixes go' bIg -time, 1 'd r� ther see a little I) it of an increase each tirnt, As I said , I can ' t believe $60, 000 will make or break the Town of Groton , C. Baynes: 0, 000 is a 12 % additional tax increase . B. Leaver., Well, you ' re also saying that you 're over- figured Fetything else, So what the melt . what do you really think this budget's going to be , This doesn 't mean much to rrif because you' re over- figu red it so much . T. Robinson : Who did: B. Leaver: Carl . He said he doesn' t: plan on spending that much _ C. Haynes: 1 said we can't spend that rntiell . it's a complicated, complex type of process , it`s not simpie. Sut when you look at the fact you 've got a 1 . 2 million do] Ia.r bu c1geL, which is 8+.% Iesq than current I) udget, we 've c,at the bottom line budget by over 8%. $370 , 000 of that is coming from or funned out of under expenditures -- 25% . If we actually spend L2 ' rni [lion dollars this year, in order to do the same kind of thing in the sarn level next year, you ' d nearly double our taxes . B. Leaver: How much pet'centage increase is $ 60 , 000 of $ 1 . 2 million ? What' s the percentage? C, Hynes:. I don't know - " a pereenL or something. B• Lesver: You -sal d a 1 , 2 million dollar budget? C. Haynes: Wait a minute . Ti, e budget is $ 1 . 2 million , The amount raised by taxes is 500, 000, So when you add $60, 000 to tine $500, 000, it' s arc und 1 - - Just rough figuring. The dtFticulty we got is a long - term program of weaning ourselves away From this fu rid balance approach to budgeting . As long as we have It -- we 've got to keep working our way clown . This year, that number is 9 ' Town of Groton Public Roaring November 14, 1991 488, 000 . We dropped our dependency on unfunded balance by $ 118, DW . We've got to keep doing that and we can't do It in one big swoop or you ' re going to see that big tax increase . B. Leaver: What my question is to yot� as a Board member doing ali this =Y what is your five- year game plan for maintenance and replacement of equipment and so forth' What's your plan"? You 'must have one , C. Baynes, Actually , we don ' t . B. Leaver: You don' t have a plan at all ? C. Haynes : N o . B. Leaver: NV years ago - - wasn't there a plan here? How many years have you been In a plan? C. Haynes : The pIan is Comy's plan , I 've never seen a plan in eight years that: I 've been on the Board . L. Cotimetius6 We've h ad that money in Lhere , but we've depleted it througlli . , . , . C. Haynes : We 've been living off the fund balance . It was accumulated back in the 80's, The day the auditors came in and evcrybody else, they said you 've got to get rid Of it. 'Mey wanLed us to put it in the reserves , We said rio, that's not fair, let 's give it back to the taxpayers, There 's been a 19. almost a 2D% decrease in taxes over a period of three , four years_ Now wc%re got some modest increases and we've got to start geLting cgntrol of the expenditures and get a more realisLic kind of budgeting going. If we do it all at once, you're going to have a bad situation . So we're trying to do it gradually. B. Leaver: What my problem is , sItting here listening to you , is that in throe or four years we 're going to have a very bad year by what we ' re doing today . He can ' t continue to do what he 's done best and , as she said , he 's done a gP'eat job by updating } ris equipment and getting: a good . trade In . You don ' t have the repair maintenance , and in the long run this is one reason why our taxes have stayed , down . And the fact that you 've a] ways paid cash for everything is goat. I 'd rather soe taxes go up a. touch and continue to pay cash , It costs you a lot more if you don' t. C. Haynes-, Uut there 's two factors why going a year or two is not going to really hurt us seriously. Number one is we bough a lot of new equipment in the Iast few years, N ijmber two we do have, a reserve fand set up -- 35 , 000 or something like that. Is thaL right" D. Brennan : $26,000, C. Haynes: And what we need to do is to keep feeding that so we do have a fund builL up, B. Deaver_ So you 're saying that $60, 000 is going to be $46 .000 before the end of 1995? You 're putting it down to zero and you ' re te] li.ng me you're going to have 46 , CDQ in there on January 1st? C. Haynes: That's a reserve fund _ B. Leaverm That's not a Bind If you have one piece of equipment that's coming due , your ten years is u p. . L. Cornelius; l didn ' t quite cai:iwh that. The unexpended pail of it -- for the last three months or something like that . C. Baynes: Bob was suggesting a pre ill iSe of somehow we wind up with a whole tat of r1loney and sornebody waits until the last three Mon Lhs to spend It. B . Bern atdc 1 said (haL was a possiblli(yr IL maybe because It's seasonal _ 10 Town of Croton Public Nearing November 14, 1994 L. Carncl#�rs : W01 J have to go to Liz and see how nilicl7 I e gat left. And there's no money left irY the fund , C. HAynCS91 let me clarify that, You 've goL two budgets , You 've got the Town-wide and you've gat the part-Town . The Town - wide fund , currenL 1994 budget, there ' s a budget of $465t000 - - it's estimated on LiZs part that at year end we 're going to have spent $315, 000 of that , We 're going to under spend that by $ 150, 00D, Keep in mind that were using 14OF000 of 1L' to fund next year's budget , ] L isn't like Lhi� re's a lot of money there . If you 'don ' t underspend it . we ' re In a world of hurt to keep you going next year. So if you really understand this fund balance concept, you cars see were gat a very tight aituation here , And the DB budget, which is the part-Town budget , that's the one where we keep running out of money ; that's the orrc that ' s really tight, Yoia �ve got a $206, 000 budget thef'c and we're estimating we're going to spend WO . OW . When you 're dialing in L' hose kinds of nurnbers, that 's very . very tight. So what you 've got there is maybe $ 15 . OW of fund balance carrying over. And when that's gone , it's gone and you 're virtually living hand - to- mouth from then onr So that budget is very Light , There 's no doubt about it. And as I understand iL. we' re not allowed to move monies froin one of these funds to another. It's aIrnost like having four separate budgets . B. Bernhardt : Which fund Lo which fu-nd? Within the Highway Fund you can ' t move it"? C. Haynes: No - - within the DA to the DLL or A to B . Wjthin these four categories . 13. Bernhardt: You can move money wiLhin the Highway , Lhen? C. Haynes; Within iL you can move it , B . Bernhardt: V4'] thin it . But you can ' t move it from General Fund to the Highway Fund? C. Haynes : That's Lhe other answer, in a way. to Bill 's point. Let's suppose we get through next year and 'havie a really good year going_ We under spend in some areas where we anticipate we wouldn' t. But Lhen you get to this time of yeaz and you could do something like that , At that time , you 're also looking into the following year's budget and you know how yourn fund balance is going to work out. L, ComeLius : Now we ' re sLarting out easy on this winter. We ' re getting a big increase in the County. Now if I come out goad , does my money go to the machinery fund" 'That's ren al , You 're using that equipment for the County. Seems like 1 'd get that money luck to go to my equipment_ L, Brennan ; We did budget on the Leigh side assuming that was what was going to happen . That you were going to get more money. C. Haynes : Are you talking DB or DA? L. Brennan : DA , . Haynes: Is the money Corny's talking about a par. of .]I at 86, 0O0 _ Esl:lmatcd revenue for the Town fund . L. Brennan : Yes . C. Haynes: So it's already covered . L. OarneTins ,r So if we have an easy winter, we 'll make out. If we don ' L, we'll be right back. ] tire got nothing in here to skim off next year. You took the $40, 000 ] had last year, E. Haynes: It's getting tough , That's the bottom Ifne - answer. We, iust don ' t have a lot of extra money around . You can look at same of 'these other things and say maybe we can slide 2OF000 out of one of these other funds or some Lhing, The only possible one you can do that with is the General Fund , These other two are very Light as well . 1�, Town of Groton .Public ffearing November 14, 1994 J0B ernhardt; I don 't urrdersLand why the 0ernera] Find i so tight, Carl . I gD through Lhere and ok . . , , C. Haynes., I said the part-Town is tight, but the General Fund , Town -wide, fs not , B . Bernhardt : I go through there and I find items where we budget every year and never spend the money under that account . We may transfer it sornew lie cc else , but we don ' t spend it there . AM there If I look at Lhe other accounts, we never go over what wr, budgeted for. And there 's over 70 , 000 wortli of stuff like that In that General rl und . We stick in $5 , 000 for this , 1D, WO for that , We never spend it, Historically, we 've never spent It. But yet what W e budgeted for - - nowhere in there can you find where wp, have had a budget. Unless you niodlF}F that budget during the year as you need to, nowhere can you find where we 're spending rnore money that c%Fe budgeted for. 8o where's It going? C . Haynes ; I would . h op e we 're not spending more than weLve budgeted for. H. Bernhardt: Let nic ask you again to make sure you understand it. . , . C, Haynes: I understand the question , so let me answer iL. If you look. at 1994, okay, I 'm making your point and Frn going to answer it, okay? There's a budget there of $406, 000 , round numbers . We're probably going to be finishing out the year spending about 330 . S a that's $76 , 000 underspent. Ttaat adds up pretty much to Lhe numbers you and Liz talked about_ Now you go over on � this other budget and you say all right, look at th t 195 budget. OrlginaI preliminary budget we'd already cut that }pack to $393, 0M we ' re now cutting it back another $40, 000 back down to $3561000 - - $26FCOO MOTE than was actually spent this year , l think that's getting pretty Light , Particularly when you took at the fact that $ 185 , 000 of that is corning from unexpended balances -- unfunded balances. Now, let me just point out one different way for you . You ] oak at those nurnbcrs . If we spend $356, 000 that's actually budgeted - - if we spend that money - - we 've got to add another 185 , 000 to the tax base next year to order to have that same level of budget. Are you following me? B . Bernhardt, Yes , C. Haynes : Which would be approx.im ate iy a 40% tax Increase , . I don' t think you want dint , o what we. have to do Is to underspend that budget- in order to . niaintain some level of fund ba] ance in order to keep that kind of thing rolling , If we don't underspend that budget, we' re going to be in a world of hurt . B , Bernhardt ; My question , though - - you haven't answered it. How ninny times do you modify the budget? C. Haynes: Liz has got to give me the technical side of this, but if I Lhink we have to modify the budget any time we rnove monies from any line item to another item that changes the effect of that line item . B. Bernhardt : So any time this Board makes a motion or approves voting a transfer they have to modify the budget again? L, Brennan ; That's modified , . Rayn r Without changing the bottom IIne -- all it's doing is changing - - let's suppose that the General Fund is $356, 000. There 's no way we can Increase that , We can always decrease it, but generally speaking, wMat's happening Is the lines wlthin that budget arc ""oving around . B , Bernhardt: That's all right . I don 't Have any problem with it , C, Haynes : Am I con-tict , Liz? L. Breuoaw You can increase it if there are revenues coming in that are unexpected -- as what we had with the snow damage , We got money from the insurance company, so we had increased the revenues and we also had to put it in so we conid purchase tl} c equipment that got darnagc€1 . So we can Increase it , 12 'Town of GrOtGll Public Hearing November 14 , 1994 " Haynes ; Oi y -- but oj%! if IE's unexpected revenue _ B. Bernhardt: Weil , then , I 've got to ask - another question about that one . Every year we forecast an estimated revenue . And every year we get at least $50, 000 - - pos,5ibly more-- in actual revenue . How does that fit into the picture? Does that give us the authority to go ahead and change the budget by --R increase Lhe budget - -- by $50 , 000 , C. Haynes: Well , theoretically It does , B . Bernhardt: Are use doing it"? E. Moran : b ell you already got IL' in there , f Ig h P As anticipated revenue , CW Haynes: I think Bob 's question is If you got in the proposed budget for ' 95 $247 , 000 and change , and this year we had 248 , B . Bernhardt: Can I show you something- . - , . C. ffjaymea : I 'd like to answer your question , . , B . Bernhardt ; By all means_ . Haynes: We have estimated revenue of $ 48, 000 - round numbers _ Suppose Then , as happened this year because of that building thing or whatever , we get another $ 0, 000 thaL we didn ' t anticipate , Then we can increase the budget equally to whatever unexpected extra revenue carve in , And there, as we did this year, we used it to replace equiPinent that was damaged when the barn fell in , o there mIghL be other examples of emergency funds that come in from the State er something for something or other, That would be the kind of thing that eouId happen and you don' t really expect it, E. Moran: There isn 't any budget anywhere that isn't that way , You 're ,lust: talking about a normal budget , B. Bernhardt: May I show you this so you can understand what I 'm talking about? If you don 't want it, it's up to you , 14ere's one for you ; Teresa. This is the only way I can understand thtngs . Look at that trend -- and this is what you 're asking for for the budget. 1 went back to 1991 and just tracked it . And this number of 1995 is exactly what you ' re forecasting, Teresa , The page you 're turning over - - the first page , Teresa . M Robinson: 1 k now . B. Bernhardt; Okay. Thank YOU That nurnber is exactly what you're forecasting in the revised part of the budget , That looks pretty good . It looks like. you, folks have been doing a great job . We had a bad year in "03 and it went up , These are the total budget, right"? Next page -- this is what i was talking about , marl , If you see the two graphs for each year. One is est €mated and one is actual , His to &aJly, our estimated has been $ 50 , 000 or more less than what we really got in revtnue . My question earlier was Y _ does that give us tlit right to take this money now and Increase our budget by 50 , 000? I 'm looking for a technical answer , that's all , But I wanted to show you. what fhe, trend has bec.n . 1 don' t know what it is for '94 , V4fe don ' t know what revenue wclve gat ooming in yet. And we don't know for '95 . Let me say this 4- we ' re always understating how rnuch revenue we expect. Now we 've got a real problem this year 1 fou rid in the budget because we're got revenue that we haven't collected yet this year that we had collected at this point in the past , CHIPS Is almost 80, 000 that normally we would have by this time. We don ' t have It yet. T. robin Did you ask when It was coming in? B. Merr harder Don 't you expect to get fhat7 L. Cornelius : It will be here in December, 1� . Town of Groton Public Hearing November 34, 1994 . Berrffiardt; That's right. But last year and the year beforp, we 've had It now . Now what this does to us is thIs . Tliis lowers }your fund balance and now we pass it on to the taxpayers and say , hey, we want you to pay it because that's the amount of money we have to tax you to make 1) p for It because it's not here . Guess what? we 're going to get it , we're, going to get it before the yews out, So we collect it from the taxpayers and we collect it from the State , C. Baynes: Now on earth did you come to that conclusion? B. Elcrnhardt: We will be collecting tt from the State , T. Robinson : We 're collecting it from the State _ , . . B. Bernhardt: Let rnt go one more page . . . T. Robinson : Just one second m - you 've inL' erruptrd me before . We geL the money late and it depends on the time of the year and whatever we ' re doing when we get our CHIPS money . The other thing about it is - - weLvt already prat it into the budget , B . Bernhardto Where is it in the budget? C. Haynes: Under estimiated revenues . B. Bernhardt : I 'd like to have Teresa answer. Where Is It? T. Robinson ; In estimated revenue . 11 . Bernhardt: 1 didn' t see it in there , The money that we 'd normally have , this year, at this time , the almost $30 ,Q00, is into estimated revenue , L. Brennan : e estimated that we 're going to be getting that this year, cuid it' s in there , H. Bernhardt: And you ' re tstimatin . your going to get possibly another $50 , 000 next year, aren ' t we'd How about revenue sh aMg9 Is that iri your estimated revenue, too? L. Brennan : Yes . B. Bernhardt: Now where is this other 50 , 000 coming from that we never estimate. T. R ins*n; We don't know where you're getting the ' 504WOI B. Bernhardt : They are your numbers- C. Baynes But every }star there could be a different explanations for that -- like this building that came clown . B . Bernhardt: Remenaber I fought with t1ie format 0f this budget - - the way it's prese.nktd . You can 't find it there, it's not these , T. Robinson : Let me tell you another thing -- two }tars ago we were uilable to do fhc road work we had planned , and we raid not spend any kind of money. The next year, we did spend way beypnd what we had anticipated to catch yap because we 11ad good weather. B. Bembardt: Let me ask }per a question . If we received the C HIPS money this ye aim, Liz, like we did in prior years, a I I the way back to 19911 okay, if we'd received that same amount, where would it have been show In Lhe four components of the budget, which is appropriations, tilt estimated revenue , fund balance , and the amour) t we're going to have to tax the people"? where would it have appeared it we had received that $30,000. L. Bteztinan; In estimated revenue. 14 Town of Groton Public Dearing November 14, 1"4 . Bernhardt: in estimated revenaae . Why, when we 've already get it? L. Comellus, It shows $55 ,000, That's what we got for the }Fear , H. Bernhardt : But we' ve received almost $30 , 000 less than we did last year at this tirne . Now where would that appear in the budget if we had received it? Where would iL have been? L. Brennan : We ' re not on a cash basis_ We 're on an accrued basis , o we are already assuming all the snoney that we're going to get in in the year , We're estimating this is a] J t1ic revenues that are corning In , Just because you don't have it in hand doesn't mean it's not accounted far. It's accounted for to the budget . B. Sem ardt: Let roc see if I can sh-nplify It, if you 'd received that 30 snrne thousand dollars for CHIPS that we normally would have received by now , would you have spent it? T. Robinson : Yes . , . L. Cornelis = You do spend it, Bab , B. Bernhardt: How can you spend it if yoti didn ' t h ave if, Corey? L. Cornelius ; well . wt took it out of the road fund , And we paid the 1) I11 , H. Bernhardt: Didn' t you also get It from your fund balance . Didn ' t that affect the fund balance? L. ComeBus., YouVe got to ask Liz Lhis, A] I I did is. . , L. Brennang No, it didn't affect the fund balance _ B. Bernhardt: So the fund balance doesn' t represent the high ay fund , then` There is a fund balance for the highway fund , L. Brennan : You apparently don't understand It , You 've got estimated revenues and you 've got expenditures . They . are set from the time of the budget . it doesn' t change because more money is coming in and more rrnoney is going out. It doesn' t change on a monthly basis. It's not run like a business. B. Bernhardt; I don 't understwid how wr, come up with a negative balance when we get a report which is a balance sheet -- which is a balance sheet you present to tl7c Soard -- how do we came up with a negative balance if eve have a fund that has money In it? L. Brennan : Because there's a set arnount that's tbere , If it goes under that set amount, you're going to get a negative balance . B , Bernhardt: That. means you don ' t have any more In that fund ? L. Brennan: bight., But it has nothing to do with the fund valance . it. Bernhardt: Okay , Noun wait a minute . Beat if you had had the $ 30 , 000 the State had give you - - . that CHIP money - - it's going to appear somewhere in your bookkeeping as some more money for 11, e Highway nepartmr nt , L. Brennan : No It Isn ' t , B : Bernhardt ; It isn't? Okay. And the same thing applies to revenue sharing that we're dcrvn 20 some thousand from last year, at this tiale , And we know we 're going to get it -- it ,Just hasn't got here Yet. The State 's late paying their bills , While you 're pandering that, would you go to the next page -- that's the unexpended balances. Arid you see what's been hapi)eniog to those . I was concerned -about the past. They acme clI rub Ing at the rate of $50, 000 per year. Now - - the only thing we did different in Town of Groton Public Hearing November 14, 1994 995 and I didn't realuc It until my wife told me -- vas we cut the Lax rate - - or you did - - by 30 to 01 ents a thousand , rlght� That affect would have had the affect of possibly affecting this by about $40, DDDr Now fliat is $ 1189OW less than it was Iasi: year, and it's been growing- 50, 000 a year, Haw do we explain this drop in tht fund balanC.e . Again , maybe I don't understand , , . . C. Haynes: You obviously doi t because J answered it a II (dF, while ago , B . Hernbardt: Okay , Let me go on to another one then _ The amounC to be raised by taxes . Thal: looks pretty good . That' s been corning down . It leveled off because you were getting away frorn the unexpeci:ed fund balance supporting all this, weren ' t you? W11Ich is what i 've been asking or. Lal king to you about. e were building that up pretty high . We were up to. 488 ,000 -- if we inept going an few years at that rate . we wouldn 't have had to charge people any taxes at all for one year. Tax rate _ I Calculated those for you , for rriyself so I could understand it. First column is the Town , Lhe .second is the village . The reason 1 did that was to show a trend again _ Our tax rates include Town plus proton Fire, that' s why it' s that number, rerythIng' s been rlropping, That's -a good Indication at least from a taxpayer's point of view. Tax assessed value , The tax rates . YOU can see the first. colurnn is wbat we actuaJly collected in taxes, Lhe second is whaL we had forecast wt needed , I know you can ' t hit that dead center. So you 're talking $20 , 000 or more in each case _ And If you look at Lhe column , it nays you might have 991 more than we ' re asking them for without even ralsIng the Laxes . There 's hvo things that concern rnc . One is : by taking and changing Lhe tax rate by 31 cents on a thousand , we affected the fund balances by $ 118 ,000. Arid I can't , at least, find wberoe that is . And the other thing that concerns me is the fact that, I agree with Bill , if you've got to monkey around with something I 'd rather monkey around with the General Fund than the Highway Department _ i know how equipmenL breaks down . There 's no warning to it - - it just goes . I { you wreck a truck. insurance pays for IL. You blow an engine , you better have some money . Now I find out tonight you say you 've got a Building J" und W hick I was never aware of, T. R.ObinSQ71 : How did you think we got the buuilding? $ , JBermhkrdt: I thought one day you showed up , Teresa , acid said . to the Hoard , "Hey, we got 700 ,000 according to the Peat Standard , so I want to building a Town full . " And you went out and built it. Okay . But [ thought you spent tyre money - for iL. I didn ' t kjiow you had money left over. That's not your fault. That might be my fault, I didn 't realize we had it setting there somewhere . 1 can't understand how that 31 cents which on a thousand dollars of assessment represents less than $40 , 000, can affect those fund balances by 118, 000, Plus the 50 , 040 t}iat It normally grows every year. That's what I don 't understand . C. Haynes: The budget dropped by $ 120 , 000 -- 100, 000, roughly , That 's probably the majority of it right there, B+ Hernhardt : Which part of the budges:, Carl I - are we talking about? C. Elaynes: Bottom line budget -- the appropriations. This .year, 1994, we had a million , 323 thousand dollars, were got a budget here of 1 , 2 329000 _ That means you 've got less money thaL you need either from estiroated revenue, unexpended valance, or taxes , Primarily, that's coming out of unexpended balances. We're eating up the fund balances . Fund balance gets created by surplus . In other words, by not spending the money . Over Lhc years , the Town has built up -- a combination of Factors bank in the early years of big interest rates and a whole bunch of reasons - - a lot of fund balances, You were here when the auditors were telling us State auditors and local auditors -- Lhat you 've got to get rid of the fund balances . You've either got to put it in the reserve funds or start cutting the taxes. so we said we' re going to cut takes. T. JEt&inaon : Now they are telling us to go the other way , .H. JBermhardt: Taut you decreased the- arrioun1: of money you need to operate the Town . You ' re going to hold the line on what you pay the taxpayers - - charge the taxpayers for tuxes _ revenue is the same. Hcw come the fund balance went down? . Haynes : Bob - - you ' ve just got to listen . 1 Town of Groton Pubho Hearing November 14 , 1994 Bernhardt: I 'm trying. . Haynea: I know, but you're not trying hard enough . I guess. I east answered the question , Look at appropriations . Appropriations dropped by almost $ 100 , 0001 R. Bernhardt ; Why"? C. Haynes: Because we ' re 1) udgeLing less money for expenditures, dust look where we. cut the budget, B. Bernhardto Tl3e unexpended fund balance , Do you actually have that money at some point or other, all that money? Do you have II. rtghC now? Or you did have It when you wrote di Is report? We had $488 ,000 at one tine , didn 't we? C. Elaynes; Yes. We, had a lot more titian that one Lime - - - , B. Bernhardt: Excuse mr. -- before I get confused - - we had one part of It which is the unexpended fu nd balance . We atso had estimated revenue , And we also charged the taxpaycrs sonic money. And we collected all those taxes , ney all represented what the budget was. And we got it all , So how came the unexpended Fund balance dropped by $ I I8, OQ0? C. Haynes : Because we're not going to spend as much money -- $ 100 . OW less . B . Bemherdt: You cut the appropriations? But you left Lhe budget - - I don ' t understand . If you cut appropriations, you say you 're not going to spend Lhe money. So if you didn ' t spend Lhe rnaney, you ought to still have it , C. Haynes ; I don 't know how else I can explaln it. B . Bernhardt: I don' t either. Because if you have a fund balance of $488 , 000 and you don 't spend any money at all -- you all go to Bermuda or someplace , okay? Wben you came back , there should be $488, 000 plus inl_erest . If you cut the appropriations . but you still charge the people the taxes, you still get the expected revenu a or estimated revenue , all y, ou 're really saying is we 're not going to use as much to run the Town . C. IfEkynes; Correct. B . Bernhardt; It's going to cost less to run the Town . D. Cummings; We don ' t charge them that in taxes. We charged . . . , from unexpended balance, . Haynal ; Right. I th Ink he understands that, but I don 't know. You've got to look at It from the standpoint of - - we j ,ast have to say It In a different way, an extrerne sort of way -- if we spent .i . million dollars next year, there'd be no more fund balance. Do you understand that? H. Wrnhardt: Right. Haynes ; Then how much fund balance do we have the following year? Answer the question -- how much fund balance do we have the following year"? B. BerAhardt: You 're going to ]'leave at least $50 , DDO estimated revenue that you understate it by every year. You ' d have that , ice. Haynes: Thank 0 o d we rnfght have that. We might have, if we have some kind of bad storm, or emergency - - who knows where that money is going to cane from. B. Berahardt: IF I heard Liz r1ght - - she said this CHIP money we haven ' t got yet is somewhere in here . D. Cummings ; it 's part of estimated revenue . 17 Town of Groton .Public Nearing November 14, 1994 . Sovo[5oa1; estimated revenue , . . . B . Bernhardt ; But we don ' t have that in our budget any heres do c? I don ' t see that beIng there , What's in estlMaLed revenue is for DexL year, T. Robinson ; I beg your pardon , . . B . Bernhardt, Well , let's take right ou ( the budget and see . You 've got It there . You 're going to show me 80 some thousand dollars for CHIP money in there - m estimated revenue? You ' rc going to show me 50 for net .year and 3O that you haven ' t got yet this year? T. Robin aorx : We don't got thaL much , B . Berrihart= How much do you get -- 404 50? L. Gornelius= 55, B. Bernhardt; And th is year we 've only got 1. 5 so far, something like that, L. Brennaw Because It's ]noL here . B . Hemhardt ' That 's right. JL. vocooL' 11ut It's been estimated in the budget to be here , L. Cernel<ius ; The bills have been sent in , though . T. Robinson : And they've been paid . L. Brennan : .And they've already been accounted for in 1994 . It's tj nder the . , . , B. Bernhardt: So you 're saying that - - what of those components is it in -- the fund balance" L. Brannan ; Estimatcd revenue . B . 8embaydt, ire got to think about that. T. Robinson -. Does anybody else have any puestlonO E. Moran : I Lhink it's very important that you open up the books so our friend here can see ltne items sometirne , They are always open . You aught to he able to come In and look at them some time , theca you won ' t have to take up all our time here listening to you talking . i B.' Hernhardt. Which Is a good point and brings me to somtthIng else . I found that when I 've asked to see things. that people have said i' ll read it to you " � but they won't show It to me , Okay_ Arid anything we do in here as far as budgets, where money is concerned , we should he allowed to see. T. RoWnwn: Who has done that? H. Bernhardt; I 'll come to you next time it happens . Anything that goes on in here with our money, our budgets. we should be allowed to M -- I don' t care if it's on a piece of paper or in the compt, tcr -- we should be allowed to see it. T. Robins m: 1 thaik Olere 's a lew things that you carn't see , C. Haynes ; There are laws that govern rights to personnel issues . -H. Bernhardt: That's right . Town of Groton Public Hearing November 14 , 1994 Leaver; Isn't Town Wail cs , though , pial) Iic knowledge? . Robhm n : Yes. . Baynes, But individual personnel records are not . L. 8ovncool: Elected officials' salaries are posted in the paper - every yeas' . ' F , atterly : I 'm just speaking as a resident of the Village and Town . If Lhere's any way }you can put anythIng back in Lb machinery cr equipment fund , [ think you reaIly should , It really does make sense and I hope, simultaneously, you 're putting something in the Capital Reserve Pund because [ know what equtpmcn.t costs and Corny does do a great job in keeping his t Cquiprn (man t up . Besldes . he's helpful to us and we heed his help . I lmow you ' ll do the best you can- T. Robinson, Thanks . Any oLhcr (IuesUons? Then we 'll close the hearing , - Tire Public Hearing wiLs clrsed at 8+45 p, m. f, JOaT1 E. Fffck do hereby certify that in Ste matter of a public hearbig field by the Town Board of the Towri of Groton, County of Tompkirts , State of New York regarding the PreUmfriary Buffet of the 7owrt of Groton for the fiscal year begirirt UW January I , 1995 , lh,at the foregoing fs a trite and accuvate tra.rxsMptfcrrt of said pubdtc iiearb , Joan E. FItch 19 . Town of Groton Public Hearing NoveTuber 14, 1994 Continuation of meeting - for Colleen -- - B. Leaver: We do get to see the final outcome of this? 1 'd IIke a copy of Lhe final budget. B. Mrn>hardt: Now do you understate) why last Monday I said are need more than just a few minutes before the budget meeting or hearing to see this? L spent three days going through here trying to figure out what you had . You can't do it In 10 or 15 minutes . Not intelligently, (Most of the public leaves at this time .) C. Haynes: (Directing comments to L. Cornelius) You 've got 426,000 In your DA budget - - your Town- line budget , With the exception of 1993, the most you 've carer spent in that budget is $315, 000. You 've already gat $ 111 ,000 more in that budget than you 're going to spend this }rear. With that U26,OOD, which is cut -- can ,you go back In and [find out where you 've over budgeted? L. CorncUus: You can't cut Lhe roads. C. Haynes: The D13 budget has no play in it whatsoever , To me , I 'm not sure that should be the Board 's calf . 1 know that ultimately we 've got to approve the budget, but you decide how you want to allocate it . In 1994 -- Town -wide - - Highway -- we had a modified budget of $465, OOO. Liz's figures are projected for year-end we're going to spend about 15 .000 . But we have budgeted for Corny $4 $ ,000 -- 40 ,000 less than his current year' s budget - - which is 111 ,K00 more than he's actually going to spend this year, So within that $426. 000 for Corny -- 'll say okay, I' ll take same money from this line item over to that line item , and tf he wants more money back in machinery , put it luck in machinery. That should be his call , Wliat we 're providing him is $ ] 1 1 , 000 more than what he actually spent this gear. Now -- the other thing we need to say is of that $426,000 -- . 140 of that is fund balance -- which is to say that if he spends 4 0, 000 -- then we 're In a world of hurt next year. Do you understand, Corny, what we ' re saying there? Look on the summary page. On the other hand , if you ' re going to spend 315,OOO this year and we 've bough some, equipment this year, we shol, ld be able to say -- all right, we ought to be able to come in at about the same level as we did last year and then we ' ll have to tighten Lhings up for the following year . We' re headed for some difficult days m- eilher this year, next year, or the year after -- it's probably going to be all three years . Do you understand what I 'm saying, Corny? L. Cornelius ; Yes . I understand what you ' re saying, But 1 don't )mow. . - . C. Baynes: It's kind of tough to have you make that decision right now. I guess were got a few more days before we have to approve this thing , We could give you a few more days to look at that and make a decision , L. Cornelius: WelI be getting some of that CHIPS money . . . . . Haynes, Yes, but that's already irl Lhere under your estimated revenue. We ,just .went Lhrough that . Out of that DA budget, about $504000 of your 315 is machinery. So if you simply do the sarne thing next year that you did this year, yyou ' ll be able to spend $50, 000 on equipment ; you'll have about $815 ,000 expenditure against a $426 ,000 budget, You 'll have 11 1 , 000 left in your fund balance which means you 'll have $30 , 000 you are going to have to find in taxes the following year or cut them someplace else in order to make the thing reasonable for next year. Or - - underspend the 315 -- spend less than you did last year. 1 don 't understand how we can move Capital Funds to the operating budget, Teresa . How do we do that's L. Brennan : Well , if he has a truck in mind that he wants . . . C. Haynes: You ' re talking about the building fund? L. Brennan: No the Capital Reserve Fund . You can move it into the equipment fund , if you had another referendurn and were borrowing money for whaLever you ' re buying -- for example , for a building gourd have to have a referendum . If you buy a truck, you don't have to have a referendum . } Town of Groton Public Hearing November 14, 1994 C. Haynes+ The Board could pass a resolution closing out that Building Fund , moving the money into the Reserve Fund which, at that point, would bring that up to 50 . _ , _ L, Brennan : Almost $70FOOD, C. Haynes: l believe we could do that. But I really think we ought to protect that for a real legitimate emergency. That should be our emergency thing and not a routine business thing, What if you really have a big breakdown and need to replace sorrmcthtng ? L. Cornellua: We do have a plan -= but it's land of like this year we ought to do this and next year we ought to do that, C. Haynes: Corny, the thing that concerns me more is that you 've been around so long . that he knows what he's doing and I have a lot of faith and confidence in what lie knows - - but when he leaves - - we don't know what the heck is the situation out there . Old timers on the Board like Dutch might know, but anybody that 's got to start running the Town has no idea of what trig replacement pattern has been , - unless you go back through the archives and dig it all out, S. Leaver: You can ask him before he leaves, L. fiarneliva : Like the loader. 1 don' t have any idea what the cost i5 . We've gotten good trades. C- Haynes: We've been able to do some extra things over the years because of the fund balance. And now the fund balance is used up , gone . We 're raising taxes basically by the inflationary rate this year. The last three years we 've cut taxes, That's why we've decreased that fund balance. We've had to use it. Now we're starting to work on a more realistic budget -- and weIve got to be more careful . I 'm willing to give Corner a couple, three days to. . . T. Robizm sl : Are you suggesting he take the money and transfer it over to the machine fund, then? C. Haynes: Here 's my only condition - - as long as the $4 6, 000 doesn ' t change in the budget (a) , and (b) as long as he really doesn ' t spend more than around 300, I don 't care what he does -- it's up to him and he runs the budget and it's his show and he's elected to do that work, If he's got something he doesn't want to do because he wants to put $40,000J$50,000 in equipment, then he should have the right to do that. We're in charge of the overall budget. We're setting that budget and also telling hIm that he can readily understand that If he spends it , then next year he 's going to have a budget of about $286, 000. I'm sure he doesn't want to do that. So that's a give and take that goes on there. E. Leaver: I that Building Fund that you 're talking about -- are you going to transfer that? . Ha"es, jMy feeling is that Building Fund should go into the Capital Reserve Fund and stay there for emergency purposes . Tougher years are coming, believe me . There's going to be some year when he doesn't have any money. and then you 're going to have a piece of ecluiprment that you've just got to go buy. That's the year that you go to the Reserve .Fund. B. Leaves: That's why I 'm here , because I hope you don 't go get yourself into a crisis. You won ' t know for sure until next spring anyway , C- Haynes: If we get an easy winter. , . . F., asullo: dust keep in mind that you 've got to pass this thing -- November 20th 1 believe is a Sunday, And 1 don' t want to play this next business day . So I think you 're probably goi ng to have to do this by Friday . 21 tr - Town of Groton Public Hearing NGvember 14, 1994 C+ Haynes: What happens if you don' t? F. Casuna" You want to go on record that you're adopting the budget after orny's had Lhe opportunity to look at it. C. Haynes: So we can't approve it without his making a line item change? F. C smfflo: I guess what you 're telling me is that you want to give Corny the opportunity to find some money to put into that machinery or equipment Band and you want to give him a couple days to think about what he wants to do with his budget so fie can pIay around with those numbers as long as he Stays within the total parameter? C. Haynes: Right , F. Castrlio: Then you can give him a couple days . Give him Tuesday or Wednesday, brit by Thursday or Friday you want to get back in here and adopt it. You did the public hearing by November 15th , C, Haynes: The bottom line budget Is not going to change . The only thing that will change is in the more detailed document_ F. C sullc : But that will be your final budges~ D. CumnrtngS : We can't adopt it tonight and have him make those changes? F. Casull;o: Tech virally I think you could. but you're going to run into a problem bocause technically you 're adopting the budget tonight and then already, before it even goes into effect, L you're malcing 8n amendment. And 1 don ' t think we want to do that . T. Ronson: Nu . C. HAyn $; The other option we've got Is to recognize it and we can do those transfers as we move along, F. hullo: That's up to you. However you want to do IL. Some of the people here at the public hearing felt very strongly about your including some money into that. machinery or equipment column , and you want to heed those wishes. And you want Corny to make a decision . Then do it later this week. C. Haynes: 1 think that's fair. L. Cu meUms ; Liz is going to help . C. Haynes: The key thing is to work .with this year's budget and see where we 're underspending money. F. Casuno: I think what you ought to do Is close the meeting, close the budget, The safest Lying to do here is you've closed the public hearing and then adjourn the budget_meeting Itself from day- today and meet at what time it's rnost convenIrnt for you . Aber that you j ust approve the budget. T. Rdbinson : Today Is the 14th . C. Haynes: 1 '11 go for a meeting on Friday -- I 'm not sure what time I ' ll be home . It's likely to be 5 or 6. 1 could call. F. CUSURu: You'd have to make sure there are three here for a quorum . Carl's vote can' t count unless he's here , 22 4 Town of Groton Public Haaring November 14, 1994 T. Ra nson : We will have another meeting to apprpve the budget on Friday , November 18th at 4 p. m. C Eaynes: I make a motion to adjourn . T. Rnhin9on; All in favor? (All indicated they were in favor. ) 23 { 4 � f r 5 r 1 RECOMMENDED CHANGES IN 1995 PRELIMINARY BUDGET . General A � Townwide ) : . Decrease ; Town Board a1e10 . § . 0 0 . - - - . . . . . . . . $ l , 500 . Engineer A ! § § 0 . 4 . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . 1 . J1500 . Election , AJA50 . 4 . . . . . . z . . . . . . } } . - . , _ ! , a70 . Bullring , A1620 . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 , 000 . Central Garage A1BA0 . \ . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 ! 000 _ Transfer to Ea ( . Rakerv \ § 550 . & .POIL5. . . 10 , 000 . % 3 & , 370 . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - General . B ( Part — town ) D � erease ; Refuse & earba § e kn ! § O . A . . . � % . . . . . . . . i2 , A00 . % e , 4O0 _ Highway DA ' Townwide , : . Decrease : . Contingency Dn ! § 50 . 4 . . . . . . . . . $ 3 , 500 , Machinery nAS130 . R . . . . . . { v . . \ . . . . . . . 80 , 000 . State Retirement 009ol0 _ . \ . , . : . . _ . . z , 000 . Trans to cap . Reserve OAF \ \ . 9 .( / _ l0 , 000 . $ 75 , 500 . Highway DS ( p «rt — town ) ; . Decrease : General Repairs OB5110 . A . . , . $ 51000 . State Retirement DS § 010 . 8 . . .� � \ \ \ \ } \ I . 000 . + § , 000 . Revenue + — Increase : State Revenue Sh@rijig . . . $ 2 , 200 . % 2 , 20O . Total decrease ! n Appropriations . . . . . . . . . . . . . s120 . 770 . Total Increase in Revenues . . . . _ . . . . + . . . . . . . . . . 52 , 200 . TOWR OF OROTON , NEW YORK SU11MARY OF FISCAL BUDGET BY FUNDS FORtft i995 . 1 " I ` L# E � 3• IMAT } D UNEXPENDED AMOUNT TO BE CODE FURD +�- �'- � PRI) PRIATIONS REVENUE BALANCE RAISED BY TA }{ A GENERAL PUHD { 'C0WNWIDE1 S 156�372 . 00 80 , 850 , 00 185 , 000 . 00 9Or 522 . 00 B GENERAL FUND ( PART TIDW14 r s -, j. 8 , a08 . 00 51 700 • o0 31 000 , 00 83 , 108 , 00 DA RYG € WAY rUND ( TOWNWIDE ) s 426 750 . 00 66 , 000 • 00 140 , 000 - 00 _- 2.00 , 750 , 00 SO , 1 SD. - 0 HIGHWAY FUND ( ¢ ART TOWN ) S 218 100 . 0 74 700 - 00 13 , G00 . 00 128 400 . 00 , ion - 0 �Rc � : LI C LEAR LIGHTING DISTRICT � �3 , 800600 — _ _- - 3 , 800 . 00 rdL2 RUVILLF LIGHTING DISTRICT S 2P200 , 00 21 200 , 00 F1 GROTON FIRE PRDTCCTIDN DIST s Go 000 . 00 60 , 000 . 00 SF2 MC LEAN FIRE DISTRICT S 46r949r00 46 , 949 . 00 TOTAL sl , 232 , 979 . 00 247 , 250 , 00 370 , 000 , 00 615 , 7 9 . 00 ti TOWN OF GROTON , NEW YORK SUMMARY OF FISCAL BUDGET BY FUND FOR 199 , ESTIMATED IJNE ) PENDED AMOUNT TO BE .1DE FUND APPRDPRi � 'TlONS REVENUE BALANCE RAISED 9Y TAX A GENEPAL FUND ( TOwNw i DL t s 1106 , 395 . UO Ei, a07 , 00 220 , 000 , 00 101 988 , 00 0 GENERAL FUND ( PART TOWN ) 5 11 fi 439 , 00 _ 64 302 - 00 5a , 000 , 00 70 , 137 , 00 DA HIGHWAY FUND { a OWNWIDC- ) S � 9 f4 , 000 , 00 _ 88 , 400 , 00 20C� , OOC} , 00 EOI) , ocoa 00 rG HIGHWAY FUND ( PART TOWN ) s 06 1 % 00 69 tF00 . DO _ 30 , CEO . r0 1G7 �50 . 00 SLI ORUVi *LLF. LEAD LIGHTING DISTRICT t 3 750 . 00 _ _ 3t750 , 00 5L2 LIGHTING DISTRICT i� 21100 , 00 E , 100 , 00 SF1 GROTON FIRE PROTECT ION D I ST # _ 58 , 000 . OCR 58 000 , 00 IF2 NC LEAN FIRE DISTRICT S 3 �3 554 . 00 38 , 554 . 00 TOTAL s 11 ,32321 888 , 00 248 , 103 , 00 +4881 000 , 00 5871 779 . 00 1 4FF ti Hello shoppers . This month You have purchased 3 1 2 # Tyson Turkey hind quarters , 1 # beef cube steak , 1 ## Italian sausage links ( turkey ) . , 1 # cold cuts , 1 # bacon , 2 l 2 dozen small eggs , 1 # spaghtrtti , 5 # opt bran pancake mix , 5J white grade A potatoes , 2 # onions , 1 # carrots , X large yam , 3 # apples , and 4 tangerinec> , 1f you ordered any of the " ] onus " Tyson honey - stung chicken , you will also receive that . NEXT M NTH : The pick tip dates for November 1995 Will be November 15 . 18 , Please see you local site for your dates for sign up . The preliminary neat grocery list for November is : 1 to 1 1 2 # pork chops ( not rib ticklers ) ( we hoped to have pork chops . this month but they could not be shipped in time ) , 1 # beef pepper steaksf 2 1 4 # Tyson roasted chicken , 1 # cold cuts , 8 oz . breakfast sausacje , S oz . cold pack cheese ( also postponed to Nov . because it could not be shipped in time for Oct . ) , 20 biscuit mix , 64 oz , juice , and 1 # Tars . Flield ' s cookie dough - chocolate chip . Produce will btt added : list subject to change . H re are some recipes from the Mare -with - Less Cookbook by Doris Janzen gacre ( Herald Press , 1976 ) using some of the foods in this Month ' s kage , Eggs Foo rung Attractive arod dellofous can be made with Its crispy-brown #C .c x on an elaatrfc gfldffe potato edgfn - {^ or fFpirrg pan at th0 fiRble. Meat- Potato Eggs Foo Yung Quiche Creanny Ser+res 4-5 E99 and Noodle Bake Ser,r5 5- 8 425° IS rrun .130 m� n - 3erve5 8 Preheat oven ro 4250- 30° r'attr'esI Jn 9r pie pan. stir lopalher ' min . BFowvn in skillet: 3 T, vegetable oil 55 lb. ground beef 3 c. coarsely ahredded raw potato -Cornbine in bowl ; Press eyenry inlo pie crusl shape . 9Qke Dok and drain according to package i!a C. freely chapped onion all 425` for 15mlrrulesun111luslheginning direotlons= orscaJlions to brown- Remove from oven, 3 G. noodles Na c. Ilnery diced celery Layer on ; Sauce u � lender : 1 Cr canned (drain) or 2 Cr fresh. 1 Cr grated Swiss of T. margarinff• bears sprouts cheddar cheese 1§ c- finely chopped onion 6 eggs , wall beaten 3a e. cCokod diced ohrckerr, Combine ; 1 t. salt ham , or browned sausage sauteed onion Add beefiocogmixiure- Hearinaskiiior, Ya c, chopped omen dralned hoodies 2 T. fat Ibowl , beal together; S hard- cooked egga, chopped Fry by Ya cupfuls_ Keep pallies Shaped c, evapoYated or rich milk Coriil)jae separaiefy; wish Pancake turner by- pushing egg (part cream) 2 c, small curd cottage cheese tack inlo the patties. When Set and agge 1 c. plain yogurt brown on one side , turn end brown other t. Sall l Cr Pormeaart cheese side. S4rve hol with Flee & nd satice- Yr i. pepper 2 t, poppy need Pour egg mix Ium o n I o other ingredianls. 1 I . worce ate rshire 9a uca Sauce_ Sprinkle with; lrx 1 , sail Combine in sauce�)anl 1 T. parsray flakes dash pepper V4 C. SOY sauce Polurn10 owe nandbakea14 5° abnu134 Fold role noodle rnixlure, Pour into 1 T, cornstarch mirrules, or unlit lightly browned, and greased Casserole. 2 1r sugar knife inserted 1 " from edge comes out Combine anU sprinkle ever: 2 1 . vinegar Clean. Allow to cool 5 minutes �)eiore 3V4 c. soft bread crumbs 3W C. water or chicken broth culling into wedoes. 1 T- melted marg$ rine clears , Kr Cook, s9 Keep ngholly o s l ep l iantly, until sauce 9 Bake uncovered at 3500 for 25 mirna; es. y ` � � Vo