HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-11-01 PUBLIC HEARING ON PRELIMINARY BUDGET
TOWN BOARD
IDAY ►. NOVEMBER l .i 1993ie AT 8 : 00 P . M .
BOARD PRESENT PUBLIC PRESENT
{ * Denotes Members Present )
See sign- in sheet ( Attachment A ) .
Teresa Robinson ., Supervisor
Colleen Pierson. Town Clerk * OTHER OFFICIALS PRESENT
Ellard L . sovocool
Gordon C . VanBenchcten ,lack Fitzgerald, Town Attorney
Donald F . Currunings * George Seater ►. Code Enforcement Officer
Carl E . Haynes
The (regal Notice ( Attachment B ) was advertised in the newspaper . The hearing
comenced at 8 : 01 p . m .
9
T . ROBINSON : Opened hearing by congratulating Mr . George Totman,, Chairman, '
Groton Planning Boards fps receiving the Hugh R . Pomeroy award
at the 55th Annual Planning and Zoning Institute Program
Referring to Attachment C— the Suffunry of Fiscal Budget By Fonds
For 1994-- „ A11 is a General Fund . " B " is just outside the Village .
, , DA " is all the Town . " DE zs outside the Village, which is also
a road project . So we may begin from here and ask ' queations
afterwards .
Code A : With Appropriations being $406 I395 . OQ . Our Estimated
Revenue is going to be $94j, 407r00 . Our Unexpended
Balance is $ 2201, 00MGo. The taxes to be raised is
$ 101r, '�88 . 00 '
Code H ; in the outside Town ,, we have for the planning, the
m
ambulances and for the combined youth progra ' we have
with the Village in the park is $ 1141, 439 . 00 Appropriations .
Our Estimated Revenue is 6r302 . 00 _ ' Our Unexpennded Balance
is 38 ,, 004 . 00 . 'die taxes to be raised is $ 704137 . 00
,
Code DA : when we go to the highway
,. we have 494 , 000 . 00 Appropriartions
for machinery,, mowing ,, labor , materials #, and brush . Also
included in that are the benefits for the highway employees .
Estimated revenue xs $ 88 ,t00O XOm The Unexpended Balance
is 200,, 000 . 00 . The taxes to be raised is $ 061000000
Code DS : The highway outside and mainly it ' s the roads and the CHIPS
Program with $ 206 ,, 650 . 00 Appropriations . Estimated Revenue
zs 69 ,1 00 . 00 . Unexpended Balance is $ .30,i 0O0 , 00 . The
taxes to be raised is $ 107 ,. 2506000
Next are washed-out items because these are the light districts .
Code SL1 : McLean Lighting District having _ $3.F750 ..OD . Appropriations
with the takes being the same _
Code SL2 : Peruv2. Lighting District having 2 ,, 100 . 00 Appropriations
m
with the taxes being the sae .
Code SF1 : Groton Fire Protection District having 58 ,, 000 . 00
Appropriations with the taxes being the name .
Town - of Groton - Public Hearing on Preliminary Budget ,, Monday ,, November 1 ,� 1993 ,, 8 : 00 PaMo Pg . 2
Code SF2 : McLean Fire District having $ 38 ,, 554 . 00 Appropriations .
with the taxes being the same . we have no control over
the McLean Fire Department . They have their own Board,
but we collect their taxes . This figure is only part
of their expense because the rest of it is paid by the
Town of Dryden .
TOTALS :
Appropriations $ 1 , 323 ,1888 . 00
Estimated Value $ � 248 ,, 109 . 00
Unexpended Balance $ 488 ,1000 . 00
Amount to be Raised By Tax $ 5871'6779 . 00
Basically we have a very minimal raise in the amount of money we are
asking for compared to the year before . We have used a good deal '!
of our Unexpended Balance . Unexpended Balance is the amount of money
you might have left over from one budget year to the next and the
money that you use to keep the taxes down for the people and to keep f '
them down . This figures out to be approximately a 4 percent decrease
in taxes . The Town share would be . ( referred to the chart
figures shown to public --was not available for visual review for
Board members at this time . ) It would be be $ 2 . 154 . when you are
dealing with outside the Town ,, you ' re dealing with DA and DB where
the monies would be $ 2 . 332 . The Peruville lights is $ . *. 797 ,t . which is
80 cents . McLean lights would be $ . 668 . Groton Fire Department
would be $ . 967 and the McLean Fire Department would be $ 1 . 574 .
When you figure out the budget for the people you have in the Town ,,
it is two times ( by adding part Town with whofW Town ) . If you lived
in the Village ,, you only have to pay A and DA . When you figure the
amounts you will have to pay for 1994, it would be $ 2 . 39 plus $ 2 . 20
giving you the sum of $4 . 59 . This from last year is a $ . 29
difference .
If you have any questions or wish to know anything more , I would
ask that you come forward and speak in the microphone giving your
name and asking your question .
B . BERNHARDT : I can talk loud enough with the microphone . My name is Bob Bernhardt
and live on W . Groton Road and run a beef operation . I know that the
Town Board has worked hard in helping Teresa with this budget . I
only have one problem with it . If you would bear with me for a moment ,(
I would like to pass out some handouts and tell you what the problem
is .
T . ROBINSON : I would rather you come forward and comment on anything you may
see constructive to say . . . . .
B . BERNHARDT . I do not wish to add anything to your budget diagram . Everything
seems to be in order . I just want to be given the opportunity
to show you where it should be lower . It won ' t take more than
a few minutes .
T . ROBINSON * If you are going to get political , I will have to ask you to stop
and be seated .
Town , Of , Groton Public - Hearing - on - preliminary - Budget ,, Mornday , • November - 1 , - 1993r , 8 : 00 - p : m . Pg . . 3
B . AE NHARDT : My purpose for coming here tonight is not to . embarrass anyone . It ' s
not political . I work with budgets all the time . I have computers
and analyzed your data going lock five years where there seems to
be a showing of trends . , What I want to present to you is to tell
you why it should be loner . is that OK?
Tw ROBINSON : OK . That ' s fine .
B . 13ERNRAPDT : In 1993 we had a budget `of 1 , 0O0 ., 381 . 0O ( Appropriations ) . We had
an 8stimatEA Revenue of 237 ,, 36 . We had surplus of $437 ,1500 . 'Phis
is how much we had to raise by taxes , Amount not available for visual
review . we came to the Board and asked you to cut the taxes _ You
were kind enough to take a look at it . What you aid was lowered the
budget in appropriations but the surplus raised from 437 to 488 =
One reason why it raised was the surplus was getting too high . When
you refer to the handout that I am passing out ( Attachment D ) ,i we
will be interested in the last three lines . The figures with brackets
around it� this information was not available ,, was not there . I ' ve
spent a lot of hours digging this out . These are actual costs ,
If you notice , every year we overstated how much we needed . I can
understand wh since you cannot state that exactly . But we stated
it as surplus according to growth . However, after inputting this
informationo. the ccmput er generated the spreadsheet ( Attachment D-2 )
showing us the top line being the budget . The second line is actual
costs . The bottom I ne is the surplus . If you try to draw a
straight line across here ,, the budget i.s rising higher thalft what
our appropriations are . if you put the line through the surplus ,,
it will become even steeper,t which seems to me something is causing
this surplus to rise . Something is increasing the fact that what
we say it is going to cost to run the Town vs the actual cost . $ .
The third page ( Attachment D-3 ) . What I Looked at for revenues was
what we estzmated and what we actually received ., For example ,, the
year 1990 . What we received that year I cannot find . It ' s n6t
there . I am not finding fault _ I am just saying that . it is not
there . In 1990 , we estimated $ 2271 M . The actual is 317 ,, 645 "
The difference being $90, 5]7 . In 1991 ,E the difference showing
41 ,1417 . In 1992 ,E we had' a difference of $78 , 619 too much . If
you estimate surpl, ua too low, then you inflate the amount estimated
for taxes . you are understating the amount of revenue that you
will receive which is what is making the surplus increase . If
you look at the next spreadsheet ( Attachment D-4 ) c the top line
represeftts ..what . you ' re actually _receiving ,, ',the second l line.: is _the
estimated amount of what you will be receiving ,r and the bottom
line is the amount that is generated as surplus [honey . Does everyone
understand what I am trying to say?
What you ' re proposing is what Teresa, presented . If you take the
average of the Estimated Revenue ,i it .is over $ 300 ,j00O: O0 . To be
exact is $307 ,. 188 . Here ' s your surplus ( referring to chart ) .
This is the amount to be raised by taxes ( referring to chart ) .
The effect is lowering the amount to be raised by takes which is
10 percent less . What ii' does is thz % . . it stops the growth
of the surplus . You have one other thing going for you z)q that
this year we had a $1 , 400, OM OO additional asaessment. because
of new homez being built . ' wren if you don ' t change the tax rate
per thousand,, what would happen is that money you bring in is going
to be more thaIg what you were looking for because of increased assess-
ment . We are overstating how much it ' s going to cost to run the
tc�m and understating how much revenue we ' re bringing in . You need
to turn it around . Let ' s see how close we can predict the budget
Town of Groton Public - Hearing - on - Preliminar Bu et ,, Monday, - November - lr , 1993 ,
_ _ Y � 9 00 , p . m pg . 4 �
and lets see how olose we can predict our revenue . We re missing
it by too much . We have got to come back the other way . If you
went out and spent $ 200I000 in surplus---extra send ping� in order
for us to pick that up without raising taxes we have to add
5011000 ,t000 . 00 for homes being built next year or raise your taxes .
What I am suggesting fc you is this . We have been taking money from
these people all this time . . We have a real poor economy . People
are unemployed or are on fixed incomes . According to Freszdent
Clinton, social security benefits will only be raised by 2 . 6 percent .
What I am saying is we have this surplus by taking money and we can
use this money to lower taxes again . It ' s going to help all the
people all of us�without iceally affecting the budget . All you
have to do is call the shots closer on the Estimated Revenue .
( He again iceferred to Attachment D ) . If you go with this present
planot you will have $ 540 , 000 . 00 in surplus next year . I guarantee
it unless someone is going to go out and spend some money . I am
just trying to stop the surplus from growing . All you rally need
is about $ 30Df+ 000 . 00 .
we have a new President this year saying he is going to do all
these things . I am not criticizing anyone here . The budget
finally came through,, and all it did was raise taxes for us .
Any spending cuts will not take place until next year or thG
year after , His new health plan reform is a good thing but
will not take effect for another two years . He also promised
helping the economy by creating new jobs . He hasn ' t done it .
We have a bad economy . Y suggest you consider this type of budget .
Public applauded .
T . ROBINS= Anybody else?
Rr WALPOLE : I would like to congratulate the ward on reducing the tax rate
by 4 percent . Just one quick thing involving the assessment .
From 1992 to 1993 ,1 the assessment increase& town�wider� by
l . 9 to 2 million dollars . From 1993 to 199 r, based on my figurestt
the assessment increase was 1 . 3 million dollars .
B . EERNHARDT : Excuse me . Eiow long ago did you receive thin information2
R . WALPOLE : Four o ' clock this afternoon . A couple of things that were already
addressed to the Planning Board and/or Town Bo,ard4p. the new addition
going on to the Bank would posslbly increase the new assessment
town-wide by 1 million dollars . We have a new construction being
added on to a funeral home here in the Village . We alao have received
tenfative approval this afternoon from NYSDEO in reference to light
manufacturing firm with an approximate $,370,! 000 to 375 ,i000 . We will
know at the and of this month if this probject will be on Spring
Street with the 13 to 15 houses where we will be talking about
500r000 to $ 10, 000 ,f ODD in assessments . As it stands right know
with � 1994 building €.ermits , we know 1 . 5 million dollars will be
added to assessment rase . rTwo things that makes this a " plus „
activity inside the corporate line : ( 1 ) low electric rate and
the grants from the New York Power Authority increasing the ABW .
In conclusa. on , I am personally happy with the 4 percent decrease .
Town - of - Groton Public1Dearing - on Preliminary Budgett� Monday, November . lst 1993 ,, - 8 . go p
ROBINSON : Anyone else?
In answer to the surplus . The surplus does not always - cane from
the budget .
B . BERNHARDT : You lost me .
T . ROBINSON : I know . . .
8 . BERNHAR T & Lets start hack in 1989 . You said there was $ 700r, 000 extra s=plus .
You used 600 000 for this building } which meana you have 100 000
left over .
T . ROBINSON : The money we receive at the time ,, we invested it .
B . BERNHARDT : T.o4ksa Teresarj I really didn ' t want to get in a conversation about
this . but we tack it away from the people . That ' s how you get it .
You took from the people at - one. . point nor - aftother .. . ;whether . ayou
irruested it ot ' not , _ Not you . The Town took it from the people
in taxes .
T . ROBINSON : That is correct . It was your money that we were using- no gWcess
monies . Money being put to good use ,
A . HERI�JH .RDT : You did not give the public the opportunity to . . .
T . ROBINSON : You misunderstand . .
B . BERNHARDT : No mentioned of cost or whether the fact we wanted it or not was
not available for discussion . ,
T . ROBINSON : You knows, you never came to me and asked me about this .
B . BERNHARDT : That ' s correct .
T . ROBINSON : Then don ' t try to put .
B , BERHAR�`i` ; I am not criticizing that . I am just saying to re,estimate the revenue .
T . ROBIFSON : This , believe . me , is a very realistic budget . Last year we did not
do what .we planrxed to do . ,
R . WALPOLE : ,lust a reminder that we have another public hearing at 8 : 30 .
4 • HAYNES & Teresa . may I snake a comment? Is the Beard available to comment ?
There are a couple of points that Bob brought up that we need to
address . Your definition of surplus . You are leading these people
to believe that the number presented in this budget is surplus .
The point i5�, there is a very crItzrcal difference between surplus ,
which are m ni,es set aside that are d15Cretianary vs what we really
meat, by appropriated surplus ., which is what we ,reed to balance this
budget . Lets assume we spent the 1 . 3 million dollars , that means
the $488 ,i000 doesn ' t exist . The $488 ►t000 has been agent because that
money makes up the l . 3 million dollars . If that happens , at the end
of 1994 budget ,, you will have approxinnately a leeway of 68 ,, 000 in
. . . bills .
B . BE KHAPDT : 2 disagree .
Town of Groton - public Hearing on Preliminary Budgeter �S�y,+ November 14 1993� 8 . 00 P . M . Pg ., 611i
HAYNES : I can show you the facts and the figuresri Bob .
. BERNHARDT .w Well ,l you can do thatr+ but I still disagree .
Co HAYNES % Let me just make my point . You are creating a image that there is
all this money oating around . That is a false i
floating mage . I have
looked at this stuff . Irr toorr have worked with a lot of budgets
for 11 years . We are playing Russian roulette with fund kills .
B . BERNHARDT : I don ' t agree .
Co. HAYNES: You are absolute wrong ! I can sit right here all day long and show
you why these are the correct figures .
B . BE + R� : I called that surplus hecauee it was easzer to write than Unexpended
Balance . That ' s all .
C . HAYNES : Why don ' t you calf, it Apprbpriated Fund $alance? It ' s not a surplus ,
Bob. You are pulling numbers out from a whole bunch of different
documents knowing if they were accurate or not . You are making up
numbers .
B . BERNHARDT : No ,r I am not , I have provided you with the handouts that show
the supporting documentation .
C . HAYNR, S : You are dealing with 1992 , Solo . &6 are dealing with numbers of
1993 year-end . We are deal Ing with things today not what they
were two or three years ago . We have had a 21 percent tax _Aecrease
zn the pass +three years .
B . BERNHARDT : How much Care spending this year over last year ?
C . HAYNES : I am not sure .
B . BERNHARDT : I can tell you haw much it is . Over $ 300rr000V
Co. HAYNES : How do you know that ? The year is not ever: over yet .
B . BMUHARDT : It ' s in your proposed 'budget ! I am talking about through the end
of September .
C . HAYNES : We have three more months to go .
B . BERNHARDT . Let me come forward with my papers again and show you what I mean ,
* **C . Haynes and B . Bernhardt conferred barb and forth with graphs and figures that were
provided on sheets . Contradictions were going back and forth ending conversation
Without an agreement . C . Haynes suggested B . Bernhardt come do
T . ROBINSON : One thing is our business is roads . One reason why we did not build
roads last year was because of the weather . Thin year we took care
of the roads than we anticipated because of the weather . It you
spend a lot of money on a road,+ it ' s going to cost money to maintain
it . You have CHIPS roads and your own roads and you have to know
the difference .
B . BERNHARDT .& I have questions on the trende of the budgets based on historical
data _ I can tell you one thlrtg , That numherr, whatever you want
to call it--surplusr, unexpended appropriationA� it will he $540 ,� 000
by this time next year ,
i
Town - of - Groton - Publ is - Hearing - on - Preliminary+ - Budget +. - Monday . , November : 1 .r
C . RA ES : You are absolutely wrong .
. BERNHARDT : Unless you spend the surplus over and above the budget .
A . HEFFRON : Are some of these things disputed funds that are tied up set ab5ide
fotr certain expenses '
C . HAYNFS : Fo , I don ' t believe _ so . Bob, I think. is talking about priorlties &
Corny came to us and wanted us to seal off approkimately ore-half
dozen different roads to get some work done . Half of that work
did not get done simply because of appropriating additional funds
out of one of these budgets . One of the difficulties we have in
managing this overall budget is that we cannot move monies from
one budget to the other . Every single one of these is a distinct
budget . We are not allowed any type of flexibility .
B . BERNHARDT : All that I am suggesting is that you forecast a more realistic
revenue figure .
C . HEMS : There is no doubt that we axe underspending the budget .
The one thing you need to understand is that if we do not �
underspend the budget ,( the effect that will have on the
taxpayers in this Town will be absolutely devastating . If
that $488 ,t000 comes down ,( one of two things will happen :
Either the budget does down or the taxes go up . It ' s the
only thing that can happen .
B . Bernhardt and C . Haynes again referred : to .-#6phs - and f1 ures _ trying to:_prove , their -points .
B . BERNHARDT : I suggest that you look at the numbers I gave you . The numbers there
are your numbers . It you would like to sit down together to go over . . .
C . RAYNES : I am not interested in the previous years . � am interested in 1993
and what effect it will, have in the 1994 budget .
1B . BERNHARDT : The unexpended balance keeps going up no matter how we look at it .
C . HAYNES : And if it doesn ' t ., the taxpayers of this community will suffer
immeasureably .
B . BMNHARDr = We suffered in 1989 when you built this Town Hall with all our
money too .
C . HAYNES & I do not see anyone suffering .
B . MO.TT : with SCM not working anymore,( and you don ' t collect all these taxes .,
I think you ' re going to suffer tremendously .
F . MCA*!' : Yvu are predicting these figures . . YOU don ' t know what is going
to be built next year .
JF�vLYNES : One -half of the story is tax decrease . The other half is you want
r�uality services--roads that% are halfway decent , fire and ambulance
service ., gadabouts for the elderly and senior citizens and the
disableL The people do not want stray dogs running around . There
is service after service .
S . BERNHARDT : Why don ' t we get together and sit dawn and show each other what
we mean .
C . HAYD7ES ; The numbers are night here Bob . if you are interested .+ they are
right here .
Town - of - Groton - Public - Hearing . on - Preliminary • Budget , Monday, - November - 1 , 1933 , - 8 * 00 - p : m : L • Fg , - 8 �'
�} • j
LJa B7HARDT : Cho . You " re going to have to show it to me .
. ROBINSDN ; Is there anybody else?
Co FERRIS ; These roads that are being paved . For example on Spring Streets
Is this one of our roads?
T . ROBINSON : Now That is a county road .
C . FERRIS : I was going to say . If the Town is doing a job like thiser Id fire
the man that did that job . Fire him right on the spot .
F . MOTI` : we have a road up there ,t Wickam Road where a few foster children
live . we have school buses up there where no work has been applied
in the past two years . DIE ran an extra plow . , , .
B . MOTT : During the storm, they got out before the rest of us did . Three
tlmes before a plow went by our house .
F . MO TT : This road is not fit to use : what is going on here?
L . CORNELIUS : I wish you said somethling before now . _
B . BFRNR RDT : For . . the - record;---I do not think I want It paved nor does a lot of
other peoples'
10T2` :F should Z think it sh u d be fixed .
Ta ROBINSONar Any other questxol7.s?
Okay then . This part of the hearing is closed ( 8 : 55 p . m . )
TOM of GROTON
TOM BOARD
PRELIMINARY BTJDGET MEETING-FIRE BUDGET-9 : 00 ' P . Ma
NOVEMBEFt l ,f 1993
Lee shurtleff represented the Fire Department on the discussion of the fire budget .
The following is the continuation of the Preliminary Budget Hearing on November 111 1993 .
Ta ROBINSCN . Lee is here tonight to answer any questions concerning the fire budget .
La SHURTLEFF : The proposed budget for 1994,E we have made a few changes . A question
was raised between the Village and the Town shares . All, expenses
concerning fire and ambulance services are reflected in the budget
that the 'down Board presented this evening . Our proposed budget for
1994 is $ 13 ,, 000 , which xs an incrase of $ 5 ,, 500 for 1993a I will
caution you �hattthere will be an adjustment in April and will be
reflected in the Village ' s 1. 994�1995 budget . There will be some
significant increases in workers compensation insurance and medical
malpractice insurance . Our prvosed fire tax rate for 1994 is 95 . 7
cents per thousand , which is an increase of a little over 3 cents
per thousand . As ar as the ambiil.ance side goes , we are asking
for an increase of 2 ,t500 for the increase ng workload . We have a
very conscientious ,, attentiver and conservative Board of Wardens'
that have worked t6 put together in the last three years a 20-year
We are in the third year of the five-year
plat, and are pleased with what we have anticipated to do within
that time period . we have accomplished much of what we anticipated
Town of Groton Public , on - Pre 1imi nary - Budget , Mondays, November - 1 ,, - 1993P - 8 : Q0 , p . m . , _ P96 . 91
in upgrading our services in the short period of time .
In addition to- what you see on the papers, we have a number of
programs that our people are doing out in the ccmmunity . A very
extensive fire protection program . We are beginning a emke
detector purvey . We intend to see that every house in the Town
of Groton is equipped with its own smoke detector . We have enhanced
our EMT with a programs, a CPR program . We have instructed two
EMT programs in addition to what is being taught at TO All these
last mentioned programs have been done by the dire Department
has been raised by the personnel and otters involved outside of
the budget and intend to make that commitment to the comuunity .
But what we are aaking an increase for is for equipment replacement .
One area where you may see a big jump is in our administrative
costs of $ 11r, 750 . That',, basically, is to offset the additional
interest expenses that may be incurred this year .
We did cut expenses in a number of areas .* we cut equipment by
$ 511000 . We also decreased in other areas .
I really do not have anything further that I would .like to
address tonight . I am proud of the hard work that our
volunteers acre doing for our community . It 15 hard for us
to work each year with what we have . With the State and
Federal government interventions+ it is hard to stay within
our budget J. imits . I would like to thank the Town Board for
its support and would like to submit this budget . I will
now answer any questions that someone might have .
T . ROBINSOM : Any questions ? Is there anyone here that wants to accept this
budget from the floor ?
R . WALPOLE & Made the motion to accept this budget from the floor .
G . TOTMAN : seconded the motion .
T . ROBINSON : Any other comments ?
E . BERI+ HAROT : I want Carl to discuss his rationale -. by meeting with me like stated
earlier .
y
L Ikv. 6
C . HAYNES : I never said that . I said no such thing .
B , BERHNARDT : You said we could sit down together and meet before the 20thw
Co HAYNES : I can show you right now .
Be BERNHARI]T : I cannot see how we can make a motion to accept without going into
this further .
C . HAYNES : Bobs, I will be happy to sit down with you and show you where you ' re
wrong .
BE�t3FEL§ D't : But you want to pass this 'first ?
C . HAYNES : In my professional opinion ,, it is a very sound budget .
B . BERNHARDT : It ' s up to you folks _then?
C . HAYNES : Yes . I will sit down with your, Bob ,, and show you where you ' re wrong .
B . BMNHARDT : I am not wrong ,
Town - of - Groton - Public - Hearing - on - Preliminar - Budgetr, Mondays,4 0
PIMSON6 The Town Board actually acts are whether to adopt the budget or noto
earirkg closed at 9 : 08 , m .
Submitted by Penny Bogardus
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