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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-11-01 PUBLIC HEARING ON PRELIMINARY BUDGET TOWN BOARD IDAY ►. NOVEMBER l .i 1993ie AT 8 : 00 P . M . BOARD PRESENT PUBLIC PRESENT { * Denotes Members Present ) See sign- in sheet ( Attachment A ) . Teresa Robinson ., Supervisor Colleen Pierson. Town Clerk * OTHER OFFICIALS PRESENT Ellard L . sovocool Gordon C . VanBenchcten ,lack Fitzgerald, Town Attorney Donald F . Currunings * George Seater ►. Code Enforcement Officer Carl E . Haynes The (regal Notice ( Attachment B ) was advertised in the newspaper . The hearing comenced at 8 : 01 p . m . 9 T . ROBINSON : Opened hearing by congratulating Mr . George Totman,, Chairman, ' Groton Planning Boards fps receiving the Hugh R . Pomeroy award at the 55th Annual Planning and Zoning Institute Program Referring to Attachment C— the Suffunry of Fiscal Budget By Fonds For 1994-- „ A11 is a General Fund . " B " is just outside the Village . , , DA " is all the Town . " DE zs outside the Village, which is also a road project . So we may begin from here and ask ' queations afterwards . Code A : With Appropriations being $406 I395 . OQ . Our Estimated Revenue is going to be $94j, 407r00 . Our Unexpended Balance is $ 2201, 00MGo. The taxes to be raised is $ 101r, '�88 . 00 ' Code H ; in the outside Town ,, we have for the planning, the m ambulances and for the combined youth progra ' we have with the Village in the park is $ 1141, 439 . 00 Appropriations . Our Estimated Revenue is 6r302 . 00 _ ' Our Unexpennded Balance is 38 ,, 004 . 00 . 'die taxes to be raised is $ 704137 . 00 , Code DA : when we go to the highway ,. we have 494 , 000 . 00 Appropriartions for machinery,, mowing ,, labor , materials #, and brush . Also included in that are the benefits for the highway employees . Estimated revenue xs $ 88 ,t00O XOm The Unexpended Balance is 200,, 000 . 00 . The taxes to be raised is $ 061000000 Code DS : The highway outside and mainly it ' s the roads and the CHIPS Program with $ 206 ,, 650 . 00 Appropriations . Estimated Revenue zs 69 ,1 00 . 00 . Unexpended Balance is $ .30,i 0O0 , 00 . The taxes to be raised is $ 107 ,. 2506000 Next are washed-out items because these are the light districts . Code SL1 : McLean Lighting District having _ $3.F750 ..OD . Appropriations with the takes being the same _ Code SL2 : Peruv2. Lighting District having 2 ,, 100 . 00 Appropriations m with the taxes being the sae . Code SF1 : Groton Fire Protection District having 58 ,, 000 . 00 Appropriations with the taxes being the name . Town - of Groton - Public Hearing on Preliminary Budget ,, Monday ,, November 1 ,� 1993 ,, 8 : 00 PaMo Pg . 2 Code SF2 : McLean Fire District having $ 38 ,, 554 . 00 Appropriations . with the taxes being the same . we have no control over the McLean Fire Department . They have their own Board, but we collect their taxes . This figure is only part of their expense because the rest of it is paid by the Town of Dryden . TOTALS : Appropriations $ 1 , 323 ,1888 . 00 Estimated Value $ � 248 ,, 109 . 00 Unexpended Balance $ 488 ,1000 . 00 Amount to be Raised By Tax $ 5871'6779 . 00 Basically we have a very minimal raise in the amount of money we are asking for compared to the year before . We have used a good deal '! of our Unexpended Balance . Unexpended Balance is the amount of money you might have left over from one budget year to the next and the money that you use to keep the taxes down for the people and to keep f ' them down . This figures out to be approximately a 4 percent decrease in taxes . The Town share would be . ( referred to the chart figures shown to public --was not available for visual review for Board members at this time . ) It would be be $ 2 . 154 . when you are dealing with outside the Town ,, you ' re dealing with DA and DB where the monies would be $ 2 . 332 . The Peruville lights is $ . *. 797 ,t . which is 80 cents . McLean lights would be $ . 668 . Groton Fire Department would be $ . 967 and the McLean Fire Department would be $ 1 . 574 . When you figure out the budget for the people you have in the Town ,, it is two times ( by adding part Town with whofW Town ) . If you lived in the Village ,, you only have to pay A and DA . When you figure the amounts you will have to pay for 1994, it would be $ 2 . 39 plus $ 2 . 20 giving you the sum of $4 . 59 . This from last year is a $ . 29 difference . If you have any questions or wish to know anything more , I would ask that you come forward and speak in the microphone giving your name and asking your question . B . BERNHARDT : I can talk loud enough with the microphone . My name is Bob Bernhardt and live on W . Groton Road and run a beef operation . I know that the Town Board has worked hard in helping Teresa with this budget . I only have one problem with it . If you would bear with me for a moment ,( I would like to pass out some handouts and tell you what the problem is . T . ROBINSON : I would rather you come forward and comment on anything you may see constructive to say . . . . . B . BERNHARDT . I do not wish to add anything to your budget diagram . Everything seems to be in order . I just want to be given the opportunity to show you where it should be lower . It won ' t take more than a few minutes . T . ROBINSON * If you are going to get political , I will have to ask you to stop and be seated . Town , Of , Groton Public - Hearing - on - preliminary - Budget ,, Mornday , • November - 1 , - 1993r , 8 : 00 - p : m . Pg . . 3 B . AE NHARDT : My purpose for coming here tonight is not to . embarrass anyone . It ' s not political . I work with budgets all the time . I have computers and analyzed your data going lock five years where there seems to be a showing of trends . , What I want to present to you is to tell you why it should be loner . is that OK? Tw ROBINSON : OK . That ' s fine . B . 13ERNRAPDT : In 1993 we had a budget `of 1 , 0O0 ., 381 . 0O ( Appropriations ) . We had an 8stimatEA Revenue of 237 ,, 36 . We had surplus of $437 ,1500 . 'Phis is how much we had to raise by taxes , Amount not available for visual review . we came to the Board and asked you to cut the taxes _ You were kind enough to take a look at it . What you aid was lowered the budget in appropriations but the surplus raised from 437 to 488 = One reason why it raised was the surplus was getting too high . When you refer to the handout that I am passing out ( Attachment D ) ,i we will be interested in the last three lines . The figures with brackets around it� this information was not available ,, was not there . I ' ve spent a lot of hours digging this out . These are actual costs , If you notice , every year we overstated how much we needed . I can understand wh since you cannot state that exactly . But we stated it as surplus according to growth . However, after inputting this informationo. the ccmput er generated the spreadsheet ( Attachment D-2 ) showing us the top line being the budget . The second line is actual costs . The bottom I ne is the surplus . If you try to draw a straight line across here ,, the budget i.s rising higher thalft what our appropriations are . if you put the line through the surplus ,, it will become even steeper,t which seems to me something is causing this surplus to rise . Something is increasing the fact that what we say it is going to cost to run the Town vs the actual cost . $ . The third page ( Attachment D-3 ) . What I Looked at for revenues was what we estzmated and what we actually received ., For example ,, the year 1990 . What we received that year I cannot find . It ' s n6t there . I am not finding fault _ I am just saying that . it is not there . In 1990 , we estimated $ 2271 M . The actual is 317 ,, 645 " The difference being $90, 5]7 . In 1991 ,E the difference showing 41 ,1417 . In 1992 ,E we had' a difference of $78 , 619 too much . If you estimate surpl, ua too low, then you inflate the amount estimated for taxes . you are understating the amount of revenue that you will receive which is what is making the surplus increase . If you look at the next spreadsheet ( Attachment D-4 ) c the top line represeftts ..what . you ' re actually _receiving ,, ',the second l line.: is _the estimated amount of what you will be receiving ,r and the bottom line is the amount that is generated as surplus [honey . Does everyone understand what I am trying to say? What you ' re proposing is what Teresa, presented . If you take the average of the Estimated Revenue ,i it .is over $ 300 ,j00O: O0 . To be exact is $307 ,. 188 . Here ' s your surplus ( referring to chart ) . This is the amount to be raised by taxes ( referring to chart ) . The effect is lowering the amount to be raised by takes which is 10 percent less . What ii' does is thz % . . it stops the growth of the surplus . You have one other thing going for you z)q that this year we had a $1 , 400, OM OO additional asaessment. because of new homez being built . ' wren if you don ' t change the tax rate per thousand,, what would happen is that money you bring in is going to be more thaIg what you were looking for because of increased assess- ment . We are overstating how much it ' s going to cost to run the tc�m and understating how much revenue we ' re bringing in . You need to turn it around . Let ' s see how close we can predict the budget Town of Groton Public - Hearing - on - Preliminar Bu et ,, Monday, - November - lr , 1993 , _ _ Y � 9 00 , p . m pg . 4 � and lets see how olose we can predict our revenue . We re missing it by too much . We have got to come back the other way . If you went out and spent $ 200I000 in surplus---extra send ping� in order for us to pick that up without raising taxes we have to add 5011000 ,t000 . 00 for homes being built next year or raise your taxes . What I am suggesting fc you is this . We have been taking money from these people all this time . . We have a real poor economy . People are unemployed or are on fixed incomes . According to Freszdent Clinton, social security benefits will only be raised by 2 . 6 percent . What I am saying is we have this surplus by taking money and we can use this money to lower taxes again . It ' s going to help all the people all of us�without iceally affecting the budget . All you have to do is call the shots closer on the Estimated Revenue . ( He again iceferred to Attachment D ) . If you go with this present planot you will have $ 540 , 000 . 00 in surplus next year . I guarantee it unless someone is going to go out and spend some money . I am just trying to stop the surplus from growing . All you rally need is about $ 30Df+ 000 . 00 . we have a new President this year saying he is going to do all these things . I am not criticizing anyone here . The budget finally came through,, and all it did was raise taxes for us . Any spending cuts will not take place until next year or thG year after , His new health plan reform is a good thing but will not take effect for another two years . He also promised helping the economy by creating new jobs . He hasn ' t done it . We have a bad economy . Y suggest you consider this type of budget . Public applauded . T . ROBINS= Anybody else? Rr WALPOLE : I would like to congratulate the ward on reducing the tax rate by 4 percent . Just one quick thing involving the assessment . From 1992 to 1993 ,1 the assessment increase& town�wider� by l . 9 to 2 million dollars . From 1993 to 199 r, based on my figurestt the assessment increase was 1 . 3 million dollars . B . EERNHARDT : Excuse me . Eiow long ago did you receive thin information2 R . WALPOLE : Four o ' clock this afternoon . A couple of things that were already addressed to the Planning Board and/or Town Bo,ard4p. the new addition going on to the Bank would posslbly increase the new assessment town-wide by 1 million dollars . We have a new construction being added on to a funeral home here in the Village . We alao have received tenfative approval this afternoon from NYSDEO in reference to light manufacturing firm with an approximate $,370,! 000 to 375 ,i000 . We will know at the and of this month if this probject will be on Spring Street with the 13 to 15 houses where we will be talking about 500r000 to $ 10, 000 ,f ODD in assessments . As it stands right know with � 1994 building €.ermits , we know 1 . 5 million dollars will be added to assessment rase . rTwo things that makes this a " plus „ activity inside the corporate line : ( 1 ) low electric rate and the grants from the New York Power Authority increasing the ABW . In conclusa. on , I am personally happy with the 4 percent decrease . Town - of - Groton Public1Dearing - on Preliminary Budgett� Monday, November . lst 1993 ,, - 8 . go p ROBINSON : Anyone else? In answer to the surplus . The surplus does not always - cane from the budget . B . BERNHARDT : You lost me . T . ROBINSON : I know . . . 8 . BERNHAR T & Lets start hack in 1989 . You said there was $ 700r, 000 extra s=plus . You used 600 000 for this building } which meana you have 100 000 left over . T . ROBINSON : The money we receive at the time ,, we invested it . B . BERNHARDT : T.o4ksa Teresarj I really didn ' t want to get in a conversation about this . but we tack it away from the people . That ' s how you get it . You took from the people at - one. . point nor - aftother .. . ;whether . ayou irruested it ot ' not , _ Not you . The Town took it from the people in taxes . T . ROBINSON : That is correct . It was your money that we were using- no gWcess monies . Money being put to good use , A . HERI�JH .RDT : You did not give the public the opportunity to . . . T . ROBINSON : You misunderstand . . B . BERNHARDT : No mentioned of cost or whether the fact we wanted it or not was not available for discussion . , T . ROBINSON : You knows, you never came to me and asked me about this . B . BERNHARDT : That ' s correct . T . ROBINSON : Then don ' t try to put . B , BERHAR�`i` ; I am not criticizing that . I am just saying to re,estimate the revenue . T . ROBIFSON : This , believe . me , is a very realistic budget . Last year we did not do what .we planrxed to do . , R . WALPOLE : ,lust a reminder that we have another public hearing at 8 : 30 . 4 • HAYNES & Teresa . may I snake a comment? Is the Beard available to comment ? There are a couple of points that Bob brought up that we need to address . Your definition of surplus . You are leading these people to believe that the number presented in this budget is surplus . The point i5�, there is a very crItzrcal difference between surplus , which are m ni,es set aside that are d15Cretianary vs what we really meat, by appropriated surplus ., which is what we ,reed to balance this budget . Lets assume we spent the 1 . 3 million dollars , that means the $488 ,i000 doesn ' t exist . The $488 ►t000 has been agent because that money makes up the l . 3 million dollars . If that happens , at the end of 1994 budget ,, you will have approxinnately a leeway of 68 ,, 000 in . . . bills . B . BE KHAPDT : 2 disagree . Town of Groton - public Hearing on Preliminary Budgeter �S�y,+ November 14 1993� 8 . 00 P . M . Pg ., 611i HAYNES : I can show you the facts and the figuresri Bob . . BERNHARDT .w Well ,l you can do thatr+ but I still disagree . Co HAYNES % Let me just make my point . You are creating a image that there is all this money oating around . That is a false i floating mage . I have looked at this stuff . Irr toorr have worked with a lot of budgets for 11 years . We are playing Russian roulette with fund kills . B . BERNHARDT : I don ' t agree . Co. HAYNES: You are absolute wrong ! I can sit right here all day long and show you why these are the correct figures . B . BE + R� : I called that surplus hecauee it was easzer to write than Unexpended Balance . That ' s all . C . HAYNES : Why don ' t you calf, it Apprbpriated Fund $alance? It ' s not a surplus , Bob. You are pulling numbers out from a whole bunch of different documents knowing if they were accurate or not . You are making up numbers . B . BERNHARDT : No ,r I am not , I have provided you with the handouts that show the supporting documentation . C . HAYNR, S : You are dealing with 1992 , Solo . &6 are dealing with numbers of 1993 year-end . We are deal Ing with things today not what they were two or three years ago . We have had a 21 percent tax _Aecrease zn the pass +three years . B . BERNHARDT : How much Care spending this year over last year ? C . HAYNES : I am not sure . B . BERNHARDT : I can tell you haw much it is . Over $ 300rr000V Co. HAYNES : How do you know that ? The year is not ever: over yet . B . BMUHARDT : It ' s in your proposed 'budget ! I am talking about through the end of September . C . HAYNES : We have three more months to go . B . BERNHARDT . Let me come forward with my papers again and show you what I mean , * **C . Haynes and B . Bernhardt conferred barb and forth with graphs and figures that were provided on sheets . Contradictions were going back and forth ending conversation Without an agreement . C . Haynes suggested B . Bernhardt come do T . ROBINSON : One thing is our business is roads . One reason why we did not build roads last year was because of the weather . Thin year we took care of the roads than we anticipated because of the weather . It you spend a lot of money on a road,+ it ' s going to cost money to maintain it . You have CHIPS roads and your own roads and you have to know the difference . B . BERNHARDT .& I have questions on the trende of the budgets based on historical data _ I can tell you one thlrtg , That numherr, whatever you want to call it--surplusr, unexpended appropriationA� it will he $540 ,� 000 by this time next year , i Town - of - Groton - Publ is - Hearing - on - Preliminary+ - Budget +. - Monday . , November : 1 .r C . RA ES : You are absolutely wrong . . BERNHARDT : Unless you spend the surplus over and above the budget . A . HEFFRON : Are some of these things disputed funds that are tied up set ab5ide fotr certain expenses ' C . HAYNFS : Fo , I don ' t believe _ so . Bob, I think. is talking about priorlties & Corny came to us and wanted us to seal off approkimately ore-half dozen different roads to get some work done . Half of that work did not get done simply because of appropriating additional funds out of one of these budgets . One of the difficulties we have in managing this overall budget is that we cannot move monies from one budget to the other . Every single one of these is a distinct budget . We are not allowed any type of flexibility . B . BERNHARDT : All that I am suggesting is that you forecast a more realistic revenue figure . C . HEMS : There is no doubt that we axe underspending the budget . The one thing you need to understand is that if we do not � underspend the budget ,( the effect that will have on the taxpayers in this Town will be absolutely devastating . If that $488 ,t000 comes down ,( one of two things will happen : Either the budget does down or the taxes go up . It ' s the only thing that can happen . B . Bernhardt and C . Haynes again referred : to .-#6phs - and f1 ures _ trying to:_prove , their -points . B . BERNHARDT : I suggest that you look at the numbers I gave you . The numbers there are your numbers . It you would like to sit down together to go over . . . C . RAYNES : I am not interested in the previous years . � am interested in 1993 and what effect it will, have in the 1994 budget . 1B . BERNHARDT : The unexpended balance keeps going up no matter how we look at it . C . HAYNES : And if it doesn ' t ., the taxpayers of this community will suffer immeasureably . B . BMNHARDr = We suffered in 1989 when you built this Town Hall with all our money too . C . HAYNES & I do not see anyone suffering . B . MO.TT : with SCM not working anymore,( and you don ' t collect all these taxes ., I think you ' re going to suffer tremendously . F . MCA*!' : Yvu are predicting these figures . . YOU don ' t know what is going to be built next year . JF�vLYNES : One -half of the story is tax decrease . The other half is you want r�uality services--roads that% are halfway decent , fire and ambulance service ., gadabouts for the elderly and senior citizens and the disableL The people do not want stray dogs running around . There is service after service . S . BERNHARDT : Why don ' t we get together and sit dawn and show each other what we mean . C . HAYD7ES ; The numbers are night here Bob . if you are interested .+ they are right here . Town - of - Groton - Public - Hearing . on - Preliminary • Budget , Monday, - November - 1 , 1933 , - 8 * 00 - p : m : L • Fg , - 8 �' �} • j LJa B7HARDT : Cho . You " re going to have to show it to me . . ROBINSDN ; Is there anybody else? Co FERRIS ; These roads that are being paved . For example on Spring Streets Is this one of our roads? T . ROBINSON : Now That is a county road . C . FERRIS : I was going to say . If the Town is doing a job like thiser Id fire the man that did that job . Fire him right on the spot . F . MOTI` : we have a road up there ,t Wickam Road where a few foster children live . we have school buses up there where no work has been applied in the past two years . DIE ran an extra plow . , , . B . MOTT : During the storm, they got out before the rest of us did . Three tlmes before a plow went by our house . F . MO TT : This road is not fit to use : what is going on here? L . CORNELIUS : I wish you said somethling before now . _ B . BFRNR RDT : For . . the - record;---I do not think I want It paved nor does a lot of other peoples' 10T2` :F should Z think it sh u d be fixed . Ta ROBINSONar Any other questxol7.s? Okay then . This part of the hearing is closed ( 8 : 55 p . m . ) TOM of GROTON TOM BOARD PRELIMINARY BTJDGET MEETING-FIRE BUDGET-9 : 00 ' P . Ma NOVEMBEFt l ,f 1993 Lee shurtleff represented the Fire Department on the discussion of the fire budget . The following is the continuation of the Preliminary Budget Hearing on November 111 1993 . Ta ROBINSCN . Lee is here tonight to answer any questions concerning the fire budget . La SHURTLEFF : The proposed budget for 1994,E we have made a few changes . A question was raised between the Village and the Town shares . All, expenses concerning fire and ambulance services are reflected in the budget that the 'down Board presented this evening . Our proposed budget for 1994 is $ 13 ,, 000 , which xs an incrase of $ 5 ,, 500 for 1993a I will caution you �hattthere will be an adjustment in April and will be reflected in the Village ' s 1. 994�1995 budget . There will be some significant increases in workers compensation insurance and medical malpractice insurance . Our prvosed fire tax rate for 1994 is 95 . 7 cents per thousand , which is an increase of a little over 3 cents per thousand . As ar as the ambiil.ance side goes , we are asking for an increase of 2 ,t500 for the increase ng workload . We have a very conscientious ,, attentiver and conservative Board of Wardens' that have worked t6 put together in the last three years a 20-year We are in the third year of the five-year plat, and are pleased with what we have anticipated to do within that time period . we have accomplished much of what we anticipated Town of Groton Public , on - Pre 1imi nary - Budget , Mondays, November - 1 ,, - 1993P - 8 : Q0 , p . m . , _ P96 . 91 in upgrading our services in the short period of time . In addition to- what you see on the papers, we have a number of programs that our people are doing out in the ccmmunity . A very extensive fire protection program . We are beginning a emke detector purvey . We intend to see that every house in the Town of Groton is equipped with its own smoke detector . We have enhanced our EMT with a programs, a CPR program . We have instructed two EMT programs in addition to what is being taught at TO All these last mentioned programs have been done by the dire Department has been raised by the personnel and otters involved outside of the budget and intend to make that commitment to the comuunity . But what we are aaking an increase for is for equipment replacement . One area where you may see a big jump is in our administrative costs of $ 11r, 750 . That',, basically, is to offset the additional interest expenses that may be incurred this year . We did cut expenses in a number of areas .* we cut equipment by $ 511000 . We also decreased in other areas . I really do not have anything further that I would .like to address tonight . I am proud of the hard work that our volunteers acre doing for our community . It 15 hard for us to work each year with what we have . With the State and Federal government interventions+ it is hard to stay within our budget J. imits . I would like to thank the Town Board for its support and would like to submit this budget . I will now answer any questions that someone might have . T . ROBINSOM : Any questions ? Is there anyone here that wants to accept this budget from the floor ? R . WALPOLE & Made the motion to accept this budget from the floor . G . TOTMAN : seconded the motion . T . ROBINSON : Any other comments ? E . BERI+ HAROT : I want Carl to discuss his rationale -. by meeting with me like stated earlier . y L Ikv. 6 C . HAYNES : I never said that . I said no such thing . B , BERHNARDT : You said we could sit down together and meet before the 20thw Co HAYNES : I can show you right now . Be BERNHARI]T : I cannot see how we can make a motion to accept without going into this further . C . HAYNES : Bobs, I will be happy to sit down with you and show you where you ' re wrong . BE�t3FEL§ D't : But you want to pass this 'first ? C . HAYNES : In my professional opinion ,, it is a very sound budget . B . BERNHARDT : It ' s up to you folks _then? C . HAYNES : Yes . I will sit down with your, Bob ,, and show you where you ' re wrong . B . BMNHARDT : I am not wrong , Town - of - Groton - Public - Hearing - on - Preliminar - Budgetr, Mondays,4 0 PIMSON6 The Town Board actually acts are whether to adopt the budget or noto earirkg closed at 9 : 08 , m . Submitted by Penny Bogardus i ) x 7 IV T 1 1 I f r+ q/}tea CKTm 9oe) f+%a F � � . V11 u r gar f afjff��ffJJ� P � y ATTACHMENT A I 9 + i f r mmllplp�� I Lit 5= � p (oil fl r � C iC