HomeMy WebLinkAbout1978-10-02 GROTON TOWN BOARD .PUBLIC HEARING
Held at the
Town Hall , Groton , New York
Monday - October 2 , 1978 - 6 : 30 PM
PRESENT : T . Robinson - Town Supervisor A . Clark
C . Pierson - Town Clerk F . Schaffer
V . Rankin - Town Councilman R . Peck
G . VanBenschoten - Town Councilman M . E . Dempsey - Cortland Standard
L . Sovocool D . Staley
L . Haughn J . Bell - Recording Clerk
T . Robinson called the hearing to order
at 6 : 45 PM
T . Robinson : We ' re opening this hearing a little late - - it ' s just a hearing to
hear viewpoints of the public and will have the minutes to refer to
when we make our decision .
T . Robinson read aloud the legal notice of the public
hearing which was published in the Journal and Courier
on September 20 , 1978 , a copy of which is on file in
the Town Clerk ' s office .
T . Robinson : If you would state your name and if there ' s anything you would like to say .
A . Clark : What is the difference in fees ?
T . Robinson : It ' s $ 2 and $ 5 .
A . Clark : Is this going to apply in the Village , too ?
T . Robinson : Yes .
A . Clark : It doesn ' t affect the dog control , though .
T . Robinson : This is all we ' re voting on - - - it has only to do with the fees .
F . Scheffer : Where is the money to go , - - in a separate account or what ?
T . Robinson: It has to go towards the dogs . It could be for clerk fees , enumerators ,
it could be dog shelters , wardens , - -almost anything that has to do
with dogs .
R . Peck : Is there a dog shelter here in Groton ?
T . Robinson : We don ' t have one in the Town of Groton , - -no . The SPCA has one and-
might have to make plans to use their shelter , - - that is what some
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T . Robinson : of this money might go for . The reason for the added cost is that
we feel the tax payer - - it isn ' t right for the tax payer to have
to pay for the expenses of the dogs and we feel it should be on the
dog owners now .
A . Clark: What is the revenue now and what is the projected revenue ? What are
the costs now and what are the projected costs ? I mean total revenue ?
T . Robinson: Well total costs are approximately $3 , 000 .
A . Clark: What ' s your total revenue , - - how many dogs are there ?
T . Robinson: We license about 1 .; 200 .
A . Clark: So you ' re breaking even right now .
C . Pierson : It ' s costing the Town money right now .
A . Clark : How much ?
T . Robinson: I ' d say roughly around $ 1 , 000 more .
A . Clark : But you ' re raising the cost - - -
T . Robinson : And we will have more expenses too .
A . Clark : Where is the more expense ?
T . Robinson : If we have a shelter , --
A . Clark : I have no objection to the increase if there ' s 24 hour service 7
days a week .
T . Robinson: I want you to understand one thing this fee has nothing to do with
the dog ordinance in the Village .
A . Clark: I have to pay it to you and if that ' s true I want the service , and
I don ' t care who it ' s from , - - I want the service .
T . Robinson: I just want you to know there are two different ordinances in the
Village and in the Town .
C . Pierson : Teresa , it doesn ' t affect the leash law either place .
A . Clark: It isn ' t the leash law , - - it ' s getting the service on the leash law .
The funds go to enforce the enforcement of the dog ordinance , - - that ' s
what she just said .
T . Robinson: A lot of that is just plain clerical work .
A . Clark : Alright but you control the ordinance also . But I feel right now for
what I ' m paying I ' m getting what I ' m paying for and if I ' m not going
to get better service., I don ' t want to pay more . I want to pay for
what it ' s worth and I don ' t feel it ' s worth much at this point .
D . Staley : What is the increase you ' re talking of - - $ 5 . 25 for female dogs un-
spayed , - -you ' re tripling it On - why should you charge them twice as
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D . Staley : much more than a male ? There ' s still the problem of pooper scoopers
whether male or female dogs .
T , lob Inson: Eventually , I think , this will be taken care of by State law .
D . Staley ; I don ' t think I should pay it living on Old Stage Road for what
the Village or closer to the Town is going to get and I don ' t get
any servicd out there . If I see are SPCA truck out there it ' s from
Cortland County � - I pay a good fee . I have a kernel license and
pay so much per dog too and have facilities for holding dogs but I
don ' t feel I should be paying twice as such as people who are closer
to the Village .
T . Robinsma Well , you aren ' t , - - the people iri the Village are paying the same
thing .
D , Staley : When I ' m paying $ 9 . 5 , ghat do I get for it ?
T , Robinson: You have a kennel , , Myou ? re laot paying that much anyways .
D . Staley : £ ' m paying so much for my kennel license and so much per dog .
T . Robinson : But you ' re not paying the full shot .
D . Staley: That ' s one of the advantages but that doesn ' t say what you ' re going
to do - 4 conceivably you ean .raise them , too . You ' re still doubling
the rates .
T . Robinson: We ' re doubling it because of the cost ,
D . Staley ; But you aren ' t justifying the raise ,
T . Robinson: If you were in here and had all the calls and all the work on the
calls we get . We wrote an ordinance and thought we were going to
be covered and now we find we have to have a contract , to have them
come out and it ' s going to cost more and it ' s not fain to tax the
general public for the dogs and we ' re taxing the owners of the dogs
and that is where the money is coming from . Otherwise we ' re going to
have to use the general public ' s money to take care of your dogs and
I don ' t think it ' s fair .
D . Staley : What are we paying now for SPCA services ?
T . lobinson : We ' re paying out of the County now . The County is paying the SPCA
out of our taxes ,
D . Staley ; How much a dog , - � 50q% or 2507
T . Robinson : We ' re paying $41 , 000 ,
D . Staley : The Town of G-roton?
T . Robinson: ado , the County and our share is out of that .
D . Staley : What is our share for the Town of Groton ?
T . Robinson : I can ' t tell you , - -but this is an ever increasing cost that keeps
going up and up and up and you ' re going to be - - the prices are going
to be set by the State eventually and both the neutered male and spayed
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T . Robinson : female will have a benefit in the sense that they are altered and
just the female and male will have to pay extra and this is what
is coming up in the State in 1980 .
D . Staley : Do we have any local people that pick up dogs , - - the police chief
or someone like that , that would pick up the dogs ?
T . Robinson: They don ' t pick them up unless they have a complaint in the Village
and in the Town we are wholly dependent upon the SPCA which we
don ' t find gives the service we want and they will not give it
unless they have a contract .
A . Clark : ghat are you contemplating that isn ' t going to cover the Village ?
If I ' m paying you the fees and live in the Village , is it going
to cover me?
T . Robinson: The ordinance in the Village and in the Town are two separate ones
and are enforced by the policemen in the Village . If you have a
complaint then you call them and - -
A . Clark : Then what is my money going for?
T . Robinson: Do you want to hear ?
A . Clark : Yeah .
T . Robinson: 0 . K . I ' ll give you these roughly $ 1 , 700 for Clerk ' s fees , there ' s
constables $ 500 , enumerator $ 600 , postage about $ 20 , photocopies
and printing local laws around $ 70 .
A . Clark : What are constables in there for ?
T . Robinson: For delivering summons .
R . Peck : How many summons do they deliver ?
C . Pierson : 160 last year .
D . Staley : Are they paid so much per summons ?
T . Robinson: They are paid per summons .
D . Staley : What is the revenue right now on the dogs ?
T . Robinson : The Town gets twenty -five cents for every dog licensed the
rest of it goes to the State .
D . Staley : And there are 1 , 200 dogs .
C . Pierson: Approximately .
D . Peck : The additional cost goes to who , the Town or the State ?
A . Clark: In other words will you end up with twenty - five cents or what ?
T . Robinson : $ 2 . 25 .
A . Clark : Per dog or per license or per what ?
Unspayed female is $ 9 . 35 , of the $ 9 . 35 how much is staying here ?
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T . Robinson: $4 . 25 and $ 2 . 25 , $ 2 . 25 on males and $ 4 . 25 for females .
D . Staley : IMI this be used for spaying clinics ?
T . Robinson: Yes , shelter and dog control. ,
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D . Staley : Who is going to do this work and where are they going to do it .
Where will they spay the dogs and neuter them? Who is going to pay
for this and where will it be done ?
T . Robinson: You are , and this is something we have to work out .
D . Stsl-ey : You ' re establishing money now but not prepared to say how it will '
be spent ,
T . Robinson: There w n ' t be any problem spending it , - -we have the SPCA - -
R . Peck : Uhich one are you talking about , - - the Ithaca one?
T . Robkason: Yes , it ' s the only one we have anything to do with . The thing is
we have to get started on this . This all came up , - - it ' s all a last
minute thing and we aren ' t going to get a shelter so we can have it
for tonight ,
R . Feck. How will you determine who has dogs and who hasn ' t ?
They get 504�, a head to do Chas . I guess you kitcv at $ 3 . 00 per dog if
you ask some people they will say they don ' t have dogs .
T . Robinson: Well , when they do have a dog they ' ll be sorry if he ' s picked up because
at that time the price can get very expensive .
R . ? eck: Is the State going to put an increase on this after you get through ?
C . Pierson; Igo , theirs will be the same as it has been . They allow the Towns to
go to 7 . 50 and $ 1. 2 . 50 in the two different categories ,
T . Robinson: Because they understand how this cost is =
A . Clark : I understand the cast but the service isn ' t there and you have no
plants for haw you ' re going to provide the service . All you ' re saying
is you want to raise the money so maybe you ' ll increase the service .
D . Staley : That ' s a big maybe ,
T . Robinson : That ' s true .
A . Clark; A- d I don ' t want to buy a pig in a poke . I want to know what you ' re
going to do . If you want to junk raise enough money to cover your
costs fine but you ' re doing more than that in . this , Your increased
revenue will more than cover your cast and what I want to know is where
that money is going .
1 . Robinson : All of it has to go for dog use .
A . Clark : t 'Sttt you haven C Cold us where it ' s going to gn . You haven ' t said
you ' re going to get a contract with the SPCA, and what kind of cover -
age you ' ll, get , � you haven ' t committed yourself to anything for the
extra money ,
T . Robirnsoin : Not yet . w ;no .
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A . Clark: I don ' t see why it should be raised if you don ' t know what you ' re
going to spend it for other than dogs .
T . Robinson: Well , basically , as I stated before the dog problem should be A . Clark: I won ' t argue that point but I want to know - -
T . Robinson: When we find out what money we ' re going to have - - we have to find out
first if we ' re going to have the money before we start spending what
we haven ' t got .
A . Clark: I ' m not asking for that - - I ' m asking you to provide a plan . If you ' re
going to get more increased service with special contract with the
SPCA - - what are you talking about - - what kind of service - - and
your neutering clinics , - -how much , how frequently ? What we ' re asking
is what you plan to use the funds over and above your break-even
costs and under this plan you ' re going to have more funds than your
break -even costs .
T . Robinson : Hopefully .
A . Clark : On the projections from what you said tonight - -
D . Staley : You have 1 , 200 dogs , - -how many are bitches or unspayed females , - - -do
you know , - -do you have any idea ? Would you say half would be
reasonable , - - 30% ?
C . Pierson : I ' m guessing but I ' d say one -quarter .
D . Staley : 20% of 1 , 200 would be $ 240 and you ' re talking $4 . 00 or $ 240 or a
little better just for females , - -doesn ' t even include males .
T . Robinson: When you stated earlier a lot of people won ' t answer truthfully and
if you believe that , you don ' t have to ask where it ' s going because
we ' ll be spending it to enforce this kind of a law .
The honest person who comes in and pays his fees takes care of his dog ,
is interested in his dog , we don ' t have any problem with them at all .
It ' s the people who don ' t buy their license , don ' t keep their dogs in
and don ' t train them , that ' s where your problem is .
R . Peck: That ' s what he says , he won ' t get any more than he does right now and
and I can get up any morning and see 5 -6 dogs with no licenses on them
but mine are licensed .
T . Robinson: The thing about it is , this is a Town -wide problem and it has to be
solved and we figure if everybody conformed to the law we could have
a contract with the SPCA and have a much more effective one because we
could afford it .
D . Staley : Do you have an estimate of what it would cost with them now?
T . Robinson: Oh , roughly about another $ 1 , 000 ,
A . Clark: For what , - -what are they going to give you for the $ 1 , 000 ,
L . Sovocool : So many hours patrol a week .
D . Staley : In the Village ?
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L . Sovocool : In the Town .
A . Clark : But I have to pay for it , - - I ' m paying it to you and not to the
Village for enforcement , - - I ! m a dog owner in the Village but pay
it to the Town and I ' m not getting any enforcement . I ' m not
getting zilch under that .
V . Rankin : I think under this thing here , it would cover the Village , too .
L . Sovocool : It should cover the Village , too .
A . Clark : Alright , - -you know - -
T . Robinson: If we set it up that way and it ' s paid out of those funds it would
have to be .
C . Pierson : We licensed 152 females this year . That ' s how many exactly .
T . Robinson : So that extra added cost is only in a very small category .
L . Sovocool : If we went into a dog shelter ourselves and so on it would cost
twice as much .
A . Clark: But she said it wouldn ' t affect the Village .
T . Robinson : I said it wouldn ' t affect the Village ordinance , but after we had a
contract with the SPCA there might be a change because in the Village
they can have the police pick up the animals and we don ' t have that .
D . Staley : Do you anticipate provisions for holding these dogs until you ship
them over to Ithaca .
T . Robinson : This is something we ; d have to - -
D . Staley : Seems you have the cart before the horse - - you want to raise money but
don ' t know what you ' re going to do - -
L . Sovocool : That ' s the object of contacting the SPCA , - - idon ' t have to go through
all that - - let them do it . Right now they won ' t come in and
do it . They can pick up an unlicensed dog but one running with a
license on they can ' t touch it .
R . Peck : They get paid so much for every dog they pick up ?
L . Sovocool : It depends on whether it ' s licensed or unlicensed .
T . Robinson : And if we had a contract with them would be for licensed as well as
unlicensed dogs .
R . Peck : Don ' t pay too much for the contract because I don ' t think you ' ll get
much service .
A . Clark : We called up after hours or on a week-end and they won ' t do anything
for you . If they don ' t give you the service when you need it , it ' s
no value no matter how much they are getting or how much you pay .
R . Peck : I think the SPCA covers Tompkins County ,
T . , Robinsone That ' s right .
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R . Peck : I called them one night at 2 : 30 in the morning — On had a police
dog in my rabbit pen . I woke up and heard the dog whining and
he had somehow got up into the rabbit hutch and was hung up and `
I was going to shoot him but the wife wouldn ' t let me , she said
to phone the sheriff and they said to phone the SPCA so I called them
and it was almost daylight by the time they got there and by the
time they did the dog was gone and they told me there was nothing
they could do . The dog had killed 9 full - grown rabbits and they
said you ' ll have to get ahold of your assessor . So I followed it
through . The assessor came over , made out a paper and I don ' t
remember the exact price but he said I would get a check for $ 1 per
pound and when I asked him where it came from he said this is what
you pay your dog license for . I said 0 . K . so he left and said I
would get a check in 6 - 8 weeks . I guess you know what happened , I
never got a nickel .
L . Sovocool : You should have , - - the County has a public fund for that .
R . Peck : I never did . I called him up twice after that .
T . Robinson: Who was the guy that came up ?
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R . Peck : I can ' t remember his name , - - it was about 4 years ago .
T . Robinson: You should have had your money and you also should have reported it to
your Town Clerk so she could have followed it through for you .
R . Peck : But if you never went through anything like this , you don ' t know who
to report it to .
T . Robinson : You should have gotten your money .
R . Peck : But like I say , the SPCA out of Tompkins County , —maybe if they get
more money they will do a little more but On - I have been up there
11 - 12 years and haven ' t seen them up there 5 times yet .
T . Robinson : We found there ' s a little problem there and that ' s why in our in -
vestigation of having a contract with them , - - didn ' t figure we
could afford it , - -but we figure , with this added cost , maybe we can .
A . Clarke If you ' re going to have a contract , get a response time to that - _ . _
that they have to bdJ there, 1wi: thinira l our nor =sole
T . Robinson : They won ' t commit themselves to this sort of one .
A . Clarke Then , again , if you can ' t get the service when you need it , what
value is it ?
L . Sovocool : Their whole idea is that if they get enough contracts they can pro -
vide more service .
A . Clark: Yes , but if you need the help at 2 : 30 in the morning , you don ' t want
to see them at noon .
T . Robinson : A lot of the responsibility is on the people themselves , - -the people
that complain , - - the people that have the dogs . If you have one ,
you ' re responsible for it . If you don ' t have a dog and your neigh -
bour does , you don ' t have to be responsible for that dog . And what
we ' re trying to do is to have the dog owners be - - have to pay for
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T . Robinson : the costs that the Town is having to assume and we don ' t think that
it ' s fair that everybody has to pay for dog owners ,
,. Are there any other questions ?
A . Clank: Before you raise the rates , I would like to see a plan of what you ' re
gong to do with the money .
F . Scheffer : IThat you ' re doing is hurting the responsible dog owner who gets his
license . They are the ones that pay , not the culprits .
L . Sovocool : They are going to pay more than the other owner if they don ' t get
them .
D . Staley ; I think this should be tabled until you know what you ' re goirtg to
do with the money .
A . Clark : I would like more enforcement and I ' m willing to pay for it but
would like to see in black acid vhi. te where it is going to be
used before T agree .
1 . Robinson : You ' re voicing an opinion .
A . Clark: Yes , I am , — that ' s what this is for , right 's
T . Robinson: I ' m listening .
A . Clark; But I would like to see what your spending plans are , - -what your current
revenues are , m -what you ' re going to do with the difference besides
make up what you 're in the red now .
A . Staley : We would like to know where the increase is going .
R . Peck: And the SKA will make out very goad it they get contracts from all
these small towns .
F . Scheffer : But they have to cover the Towns anyhow , don ' t they ?
T . Robinson: Supposedly , yes .
F . Scheffer ; Unless they have a mobile unit will take at least half an hour
to get here .
L . Haughn. If they are across the A akbrc " would t kecll'` hours ,
R . Peck: They are going to charge you for the use of the vehicle and gas whether
they pick up a dog or not and by the time they get here there won ' t be
a dog to pick -up unless somebody grams it Fight by the neck .
A . Clark : And most people won ' t grab a strange dog .
T . Robinson ; Are there any other comments that you might have ?
A . Clark : Why not change the leash law so the property owner is not responsible
if he kills a dog that is damaging his property , livestock or what -
ever?
L . Sovacoal : That ' s a State law .
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R . Peck : You can ' t shoot a dog , - - if you did there would be a lot of
dead ones around the countryside .
T . Robinso If there are no other comments I will close this hearing and I
va-at to thank you for coming .
The hearing closed at 7 * 30 P , M ,
Respectfully submitted ,
6.,6.ez
Jos Mite Bell
10 w
.
Legs l- Notice
I
Please Iake Notice that a public hearing will be held by the Town Board
of thtTown of Groton at the Town Hall , Conger Blvd . , Groton , New York on
the 2nd day of Octobc.Nry 1978 . at 6 : 30 pmfor ' the purpos . of repealing the
ordinance relating to owning or harboring an unlicensed dog adopted by the
Town Board on June 2 , 1969 and adopting the following ordinance : ;
1 . License * Any person a resident of the Town of Groton who owns or harbors
a dog six months of age or older shall. immediately make application for
a dog license . No license shall, be required for any dog which is under
the age of six months and which is not at. large .
2 . Fee : The license fee shall be as follows .payable to the Town Clerk of the
;' , .. _ '
Town of. Groton
( a ) For each Male or Spayed Female $ 4 . 35
( b ) For each pnspayed Female Dog $ 9 . 35
3 . Violations : I . It shall be a violation -for . any owner who fails to
icepse any dog and pay the license fee' . as provided in Section l and
Section 2 of this ordinance . "7
2 . The violation scull be' punishable upon convl. crion, by
a fire not to exceed Ten Dollars ( $ 10. 00 ) ,
lAl ]. parties interested shall be heard .
' Colleen Pierson
Town Clerk
��✓` .r C,
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