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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1977-11-28 I \ r GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING Held at the Town Hall , Groton , N . Y . - November 29 , 1977 - 8 PM PRESENT : G . Totman - Chairman Merle Ploss * D . Payne * Mr . and Mrs . Tibke* M . Adams * J . Worga* L . Raymond J . McNeil C . Twigg R . Gleason J . Bell - Recording Clerk* * - Denotes those present . G . Totman : 0 . K . , according to law I have to . read the Notice of Public Hearing aloud before we start . (Mr . Totman read this notice aloud on the application for a proposed subdivision by Joseph Worga . This was published in the Journal and Courier on November 23 , 1977 and a copy of same is on file in the Town Clerk ' s office . ) Basically what we are talking about is subdividing the rest of the farm that was owned by Joe Worga and each one of the property owners adjacent that property were sent a letter and notification of the public hearing to see if there are any questions so that people owning property adjacent to it can know what is going on and offer comments pro and con . Joe , in the interests of the people that are here , would you go through what you have in mind for your property ? J . Worga : Simply dividing it up , mostly with neighbors or people close by who are buying it . Breaking it up into 4 parts , I guess . M . Ploss : Is it farmland? J . Worga : Yes , farmland . G . Totman : As we understood it , the majority of the land that is being bought is by people already bordering that particular property and it was our feeling that most of those people were just buying it to enhance the value of their land so somebody else didn ' t buy it with other intentions . Of course anything could happen to the land after that . Are there any questions you might have for or against ? M . Ploss : As long as it continues farmland , it ' s O . K . I don ' t understand why you have to have a hearing . G . Totman : It ' s the law . - 1 - M .. Ploss : Of course if it ' s for a housing development - - that ' s different . G . Totman : This hearing is to give people in the area a chance to voice their opinions as to whether they want something like'- ,that in the area . If somebody wants to do something with one of the parcels - like the one for 40 acres across from where you live - - if the person decides they want to do something with that land they have to go through this all over again with their intentions and maps and outline what they want to do . Mr . Tibke : But that ' s in an agricultural district and you can ' t change that . G . Totman : Yes , they can . Just because it ' s agricultural doesn ' t mean they can ' t have a development there . Mr . Tibke : Well then I must have misunderstood . The last time I was here - said you can build one house but can ' t develop it for 7 years after that . D . Payne : You ' re talking about in an agricultural district . It ' s not the same thing . G . Totman : People in 'an agricultural district have certain rules and regula- tions but it doesn ' t stop development within the district . Because it ' s in an agricultural district it does protect the farmer because it has been declared in an agricultural district but I ' m not actually sure what the law is . In some areas farmers have sold land off in the past and people have complained about them spreading manure and so on but now when they buy they know they ' re buying in an agricultural district . R ., Gleason : It won ' t stop it but they do have to go through certain procedures so you know what is going on . In the future there will probably be a lower assessment on agricultural land if it ' s in an agricultural district before the time is up . C . Twigg : So if there is any development that goes on in this area there will have to be another public hearing . Mr . Tibke : What I ' m concerned about is a trailer park . I sold 2 acres and got hurt . Mrs . Tibke : He sold one to someone to build a house and he sold it 6 months later and now there ' s a trailer there . What can we do ? M . , Adams : There ' s nothing you can do . R . Gleason : You could have restricted it when you gave them a deed . G . Totman : That ' s in the Town of Dryden . J . Worga : I know when that second trailer started to go in there Mr . Stewart had about 10 calls . 2 - Mrs . Tibke : Two weeks later , it was gone ! G . Totman ; Mainly it ' s the churches that bought the original house and barn and are going to buy more of the land that was the farm originally to put with it and the other parcels are being bought except the one across the road , I don ' t know who is buying that one . J . Worga : Not an adjacent property owner but is ' a a NewYork person . G . Totman : That ' s 81 acres they are buying there . C . Twigg : If anyone wants to put two dwelling units on any one of these parcels then they have to come back and have a hearing like this one . D . Payne : Which is the part added to the farm? J . Worga : The 81 acres is going to Jim Cornelius , G . Totman : The one across the road for the - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - is the one that borders the - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - It isn ' t on here , - -who is buying that ? M . Adams : That ' s Carmen and his brother . You won ' t have to worry about them . He ' s a teacher . M . Ploss : Can you still put trailers in Groton now? G . Totman : Providing you come down and get a permit and meet the ordinance in general trailers in the Town of Groton are considered dwelling units the same as a home . M . Ploss : Taxed as such ? G . Totman : I ' m not the assessor . M . Ploss : That ' s where the trouble comes . R . Gleason : The County does the assessing . Some discussion was held on trailers by G . Totman , R . Gleason , M . Ploss and others and about what re- quirements are necessary now to put a trailer in . G . Totman ; If there are any more questions - - if not will close this hearing and we can discuss anything you want to but the main purpose here was to see if there are any pros or cons from the adjacent neighbors on this property and if there are no more questions I ' ll close the public hearing on Joe Worga ' s request for a subdivision . ( The hearing closed at 8 * 20 P . M . ) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - G . Totman : 0 . K . I ' ll tell you what I ' d like to do . As long as you ' re here will open up our regular Planning Board Meeting and will take advantage of the people who are here and just - - I think 3 F G . Totman : It ' s interesting to hear comments from the people who live in the Town . So very often we sit here and meet by ourselves and talk about things we think are good or bad for the town and the only time we hear from the people is when we come up with something that nobody likes . If you have any comments that you would like to make about any particular thing we would love to hear them and record them and discuss them afterwards . It ' s good for us to hear input from the people of the Town . Mr . Totman outlined the purposes of a planning board to those present and that the subdivision is the only part of the structure that the Planning Board has the final say on . Other than subdivisions the Planning Board discusses things and plans things and . we made a general plan a few years back for the Town Ordinance , G . Totman : Mr . Ploss you had a question on trailers - - about tax structure ? M . Ploss : Yes , the assessor came to my place and upped my assessment $ 7 , 500 and when I asked what for they said they didn ' t care what I had that they needed more tax money and were going to get it out of me . Of course I filed a complaint and they just laughed in my face . That ' s all there was to it . So when they put up a nice trailer I know they pay plenty for trailers now but I ' m just wondering if they are assessing them anywheres near what they pay for them . They talk about 90% . G . Totman : On a devaluating basis of 10 years . D . Payne : Over 12 years I think it is . It goes down to 50% of the original cost over a 12 year period . G . Totman : My own personal feeling is , - -I don ' t think that is as - - - - - - - - - - - - trailers do go down in value in 10 years they aren ' t worth half of what was paid for them . But to me it doesn ' t do as much harm tax=wise as it does to the land around it , - - it holds down the development of better homes in that area . M . Ploss : Most of them are all doubles now , I think . They will be assessed like houses I suppose . G . Totman : I hope so too , - - if they are on a solid foundation they will be assessed as regular homes now . C . Twigg : But that trailer that went in where Tibke ' s sold - - that is certainly having an effect on land values . It certainly doesn ' t enhance property particularly if someone wanted to build a home and live there , - say a $ 20 , 000 to $ 40 , 000 house , - - that would have a real bearing on whether someone would want to move in next door to it . So it ' s not only he ' s not paying taxes he should but the surrounding properties aren ' t very good tax base either . - 4 - fM O G . Totman : It ' s been a going question for a long time in all the Towns especially where they have any kind of control at all but you ' ll have as many people talking one way as you do the other way so it ' s almost like the chicken and the egg question which comes first . L . Raymond : I ' ve seen some studies on how they influence land values . He tried to map it and came up roughly about a mile all the ways around . . G . Totman : Depending on the value of whatever was there that devaluated it . L . Raymond : I don ' t know how right he was but it was kind of interesting . C . Twigg : You talk to real estate people when they take someone to show them a property if there ' s a way to get them to that property they don ' t take them by trailers to get to it because when they drive by a trailer and stop at the house that devaluates that house that the customer is looking at - - what he drove by getting there . M . Ploss : Is the State rule still that you can build up to 4 houses on any one property ? G . Totman : 2 in the Town of Groton , - - it ' s different in each Town whether they want to call it a major or minor subdivision . I think it ' s 4 in the Town of Dryden . J . Worga ; 3 . R . Gleason ; In the Town of Dryden this might not have been considered a sub - division . J . Worga : Over 10 acre parcels it ' s not considered a subdivision . Mr . Totman explained how the State gives the Planning Boards authority on subdivisions but it ' s up to the Town what they have in their ordinance and it depends on which Town or Village you live in and what they have agreed on . L . Raymond ; The State just amended their subdivision law this year . They put a time limit on it , as I understand it , you have to build all the units , I think 4 units , and the fifth unit within 3 years and it ' s considered a subdivision but if you take longer it ' s not considered a subdivision . G . Totman : In the Town of Groton we have an ordinance on regular dwelling units , 200 ft . frontage and have to meet certain criteria to build but the County Health Department has come out with new rules and regulations which overpower that . We can ' t approve something here if it isn ' t approved by the Health Department . We approve 200 ft . frontage but the County Health Department have come out and said that somewheres on the land you have to - 5 - G . Totman ; be able to draw a circle of 200 ft . diameter of useable ground space which means if your land isn ' t perfectly square although you have 200 ft . frontage you might not legally be able to put a house on it . Their reason is to keep the drainage away from the house . That was just enacted into law this past August as far as the .Town is concerned . Don , do you have anything else you would like to offer or comment on ? D . Payne : Not really . L . Raymond : I thought the gentleman over here was talking about agricultural district , - -being a new member of the Board I ' m still asking questions , - - if a subdivision was requested in the area would we consider the fact that it ' s in an agricultural district as one of the factors in our decision ? G . Totman : Yes . It depends on what you ' re considering it for . As a Planning Board , as long as it ' s reasonable you can set your own guidelines for that particular subdivision or if you make certain things that have to follow you can use those sort of things as the reasoning for your decision . L . Raymond : If we thought it would hurt agriculture in the area we could consider that ? That ' s good . I have another question , also . With Joe ' s notice here , - - is the notice that goes in the paper a legal form you have to follow and does it read the same every time ? G . Totman : Yes . Some discussion was held on this by C . Twigg , G . Totman , L . Raymond and others . M . Ploss : I often wonder how much pressure the real estate people put on Town Planning Board . I came from Trumansburg and for years you couldn ' t set a trailer in at all until the G . I . ' s came back and lived in them first . You can ' t tell a fellow that fought for his country that he can ' t have a place to live . Now you need a 32 acre lot over there . I don ' t think they try to enforce it . G . Totman : Yes , they can enforce that . To answer your question , in the Town of Groton there ' s no pressure from real estate people except you ask them questions and they might give you their comments but I have talked to people on the Cortland Planning Board and the Dryden one and there ' s a big difference . In Groton we haven ' t had that much development per se to have real estate people that much interested in it . The fact is Cortland is having a public hearing tonight on a proposed zoning ordinance change and mostly real estate people are going because they don ' t like what they plan to change . As - 6 - s G . Totman : far as I know we have nothing like that here in the Town of Groton so when you talk about it people say maybe you ' re making it up , - - it doesn ' t happen here . R . Gleason ; On your comment on Trumansburg . The Supreme Court ruled that a municipality cannot exclude trailers . You can designate an area where they can be put but you can ' t exclude them . There are a few towns that manage to do it but if they really test them at some point they have to be allowed . That ' s why the Village of Groton has a trailer park . G . Totman : When did you move over from Trumansburg ? M . Ploss : Back in 1959 . G . Totman ; Did you belong to the Fire Department there ? M . Ploss : No , I was a farmer . Of course I started out in a trailer park first thing . C . Twigg ': George is all for trailer parks . He likes that one down there in McLean . Brings a lot of business to the Elm Tree probably ! M . Ploss : These big lots around here you see for sale I have found out the real estate people have bought them up for speculation . G . Totman : Most of those around here you see are local real estate dealers and they have branched out . Most of them are buying up the land around here are not Yaman or big realtors so there ' s a difference in their outlook and projected plans . I know Munson has bought quite a few and Erma Lyons but their objectives aren ' t like the larger real estate people . M . Ploss : Oh , no . G . Totman ; Well , the Planning Board , if anybody is interested , usually meets the first Tuesday of every month . We will not hold a meeting in December because we decided as long as we were having this public hearing tonight and there was not much on our agenda our next regular meeting will be the first Tuesday in January - - January 3 . R . Gleason : That might conflict with the Town Board ' s . G . Totman ; So any time anybody wants to drop in on one of our meetings , we would be glad to have you . Right now you realize we have changed Supervisors and sometime be- tween now and then all the Boards are going to meet and hear her words of wisdom . She ' ll be calling us and letting us know when . She should have been here tonight but has the flu or something so decided it would be best to stay at home . R . Gleason : Let ' s vote on Joe ' s application before we close . Mr . Totman passed out maps to the Planning Board members and general public so they could see what Mr . Worga plans . L . Raymond : The plans are submitted to the Town Clerk and she notifies you . 7 - r a L . Raymond : How do you get to know there ' s a neap if we don ' t get to look at it ahead of time . G . Totman : Once he submits them they are here . L . Raymond : I didn ' t know that . You do because you ' re the chairman . G . Totman : Once you find out you know they are here and you can see them . I gave them to everyone at our last meeting . D . Payne : I make a motion that the subdivision presented by Joe Worga be approved as submitted . R . Gleason ; I second the motion . Motion carried unanimously . G . Totman : Joe , you can now figure that what you have done is legal . If nobody has anything else might just as well adjourn . J . McNeil : One thing I would like to know about is enforcement on violations on this . G . Totman : That ' s why I wanted the new Supervisor to come down tonight . We have a brand new face now . That ' s good . It ' s been uncontrolled and nothing is happening . D . Payne : We aren ' t involved in that part of it . L . Raymond ; But we can advise the Town Board of our concern , can ' t we ? D . Payne : Yes , we have done this on numerous occasions . G . Totman : If you have anything in mind phone the Town Clerk and she ' ll let them know . Right now we have a new enforcement officer and I ' m not sure he wanted the job and that is going to be one of the first things this new Town Board has to do . Some discussion was held on this by those present . G . Totman : Mr . Payne asked if it wouldn ' t be a good idea to write a letter to the Town Board and make them aware of what we know about violations around the Town that are not being taken care of . I guess between now and January we make notes of the things we see happening - - like 4- 5 junk cars in driveways or whatever and put it all together at our next meeting and have Mary write a letter to the Town Board asking if something could be done about it . I think it ' s a good idea . Mr . Gleason made a motion to adjourn which was seconded by Mr . Twigg and motion carried . The meeting adjourned at 9 PM . Res ctfully submitted , Jose ine Bell 8 -