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HomeMy WebLinkAbout12-08-2009 TOWN OF GROTON - MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING TUESDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2009 AT 7:30 PM THE TOWN HALL, 101 CONGER BOULEVARD Those present: Glenn E. Morey, Supervisor Ellard L. Sovocool, Councilman Donald F. Scheffler, Councilman Sheldon C. Clark, Councilman Victoria Monty, Attorney for the Town Absent: Richard B. Gamel, Councilman Also present: Tyke Randall, Rosemarie Tucker, Peg Palmer, Donald Palmer, Gerorge Miller, Donna Simons, Steve Simons, Joe Bennett, Sue Bennett, Hugh Keegan, Lori Gardner, Sandi Swearingen, Lynn Searingen, Daile Sudilovsky, Wayne Snyder, Robin Snyder, Tom Nyman, Pat Nyman, Peter Clark, Robin Cargian. MOVED by Councilman Sovocool, seconded by Councilman Scheffler, to approve the minutes of the November 10, 2009 meeting as presented. Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Clark, Morey. Claim Numbers 360-388 of the General Fund in the amount of$18,098.00 were presented for audit. MOVED by Councilman Scheffler, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, to approve the General Bills for payment. Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Clark, Morey. Claim Numbers 216-233 of the Highway Fund in the amount of$17,744.17 were presented for audit. MOVED by Councilman Clark, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, to approve the Highway Bills for payment. Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Clark, Morey. Privilege of the Floor: Sue Bennett - I'd like to follow up on the petition that was presented to the Board on September 8, 2009 to restrict concerts, group events and public gatherings from infringing on neighbors' Town Board Minutes Page 2 December 8, 2009 peace, quiet and rural setting. It is my understanding that the Board has chosen to respond to the petition with a mass gathering ordinance that will be incorporated into the zoning code, Section 377. While I am thankful that the Board is working on our concerns, I do not think this ordinance is the answer. There are two classifications for land use, as you all know, permitted or permitted with site plan review. The zoning code states that any land use not in one of the two categories above is expressly prohibited. I'd like to know why the current land use activities Section 302, is not being employed with regard to these festivals. We wouldn't be here if it had been. Also, Section 401 states that the Code Enforcement Officer shall not issue permits or certificates of any kind for any building, alteration or land use which is not in conformance with the provisions and/or procedures of this code. While I feel Gary typically does a good job, this is something new and these festivals are clearly a prohibited use. The minutes from September 8th show that Steve Simons previously pointed out all of this with no response. It is time, I feel, to correct this mistake and these festival/events should no longer be allowed per code. As for the mass gathering ordinance, it does offer some safety measures for large venues but does not provide adequate protection against unreasonable noise. Plus if the projected attendance is less than 350, I don't see where any rules apply. I know you said you thought it would be best to get this on the books, that it is at least something. I feel that it's worse to get this on the books. To have this added to the zoning code, then festivals would be a permitted use, so it would not be better to have it the way it's written. I respectfully request that you do not make it an ordinance or a law. You said numerous times that you do not want a noise ordinance but that is more than likely what's necessary to protect Town residents from what we have experienced with these decibels. I've include the Town of Ithaca's noise ordinance which seems very well thought out and logical. I do not see where it would be a hardship on anyone's normal day to day activities or that it would create nuisance complaints. I hope you will be more open and consider what it has to offer. The Village of Groton has a code for festivals or mass gatherings which are open to the public and that's one of the key parts; these are not invited events; these are open to the public. As well as a noise ordinance; unlawful noise; unlawful Chapter 131.1. These also have some excellent points in them and I just can't believe that you aren't willing to work on using part of a noise ordinance. These festivals are not harmonious or compatible with neighboring uses and adversely affect adjacent properties. They are clearly land use that is not allowed on the current Groton Town zoning code and also should not be considered in accordance with the 2009 International Zoning Codes. I have a list of comments to the proposed mass gathering ordinance with email documentation to back them up. Everyone appreciates what the Board has tried to do but the ordinance falls short. I won't read all of these; I have a copy to hand to the Board. Then my last question is does the Board intend to send this revised zoning code to public vote in the near future? Supervisor Morey - Public vote, no. We will be getting comments from the County and we'll have an open hearing. Sue Bennett - So, you're done with that, is that what you're saying? Supervisor Morey-No, we're Sue Bennett - We don't understand the process so I would like to have it explained. Supervisor Morey - The process is that we've been working on this for four years now. It's gone through a community committee, it's gone through the Board for final approval. We have to have two public hearings and we have to do a SEQR, State Environmental Quality Review, Town Board Minutes Page 3 December 8, 2009 and have that taken care of We had the first public hearing. We found out we had some short- comings, went back to work on a weekly basis to work on those and now we're going to be trying to have another public hearing. In November, I wanted to do that by January. Obviously, we haven't had the approvals back from the County or anybody else so most likely it will be February. I wanted to make mass gatherings a law but it was decided to make it part of the building code regulations. Sue Bennett - So this would go to vote then? This would be part of it? Supervisor Morey-No it won't go to vote. Sue Bennett - It won't go to vote. Supervisor Morey-No. Sue Bennett - You've already decided that that's all you're going to do. Supervisor Morey - No, we haven't. We're trying to get final approval of what will happen. Right now we have absolutely nothing in the Code. We have nothing as a law. The mass gathering, we went to Saratoga Springs, found out what they had, we also went to Ithaca. Ithaca has one for 500 people. Saratoga Springs, I think was 800 people and we brought it down to 350 people. Sue Bennett - But we do not feel that this protects the people and it doesn't. So, if I come to you and say, I don't have to come to you, if I predict that I'm going to have a party or event for 300 people then does that mean that I don't have to follow any of the rules that you have written in the mass gathering ordinance. That offers no protection. None. Any other comments from anybody on the Board, because I'd like to hear them. Councilman Scheffler - Well, in one of your emails this week, you had it down to five people. Sue Bennett - That's a comment from a neighbor. Councilman Scheffler - It's a comment from a neighbor but what I'm afraid of with a noise ordinance, they never stop. There's always one neighbor that doesn't like something that somebody else is doing and it just escalates from here to here and pretty soon no one can do anything. Sue Bennett - I understand that but the Town of Ithaca seems to be doing quite well with continuing to have weddings and graduation parties and all the other normal activities. Supervisor Morey-But I believe it's stricter than the Town of Ithaca. Sue Bennett- No it's not because there's a decibel level limit. Supervisor Morey-We have a decibel limit too. Sue Bennett - But it's ridiculous; it's no good. Town Board Minutes Page 4 December 8, 2009 Supervisor Morey- It's from OSHA Sue Bennett - But it's 90 decibels at the source. It doesn't say what it's supposed to be at the property line. And again, if it's a predicted amount of 300 people Supervisor Morey- So, you're saying that the sound is going to be louder from the source to the property line? Sue Bennett - Amplified music, yes, can be. Supervisor Morey - Well, I'm not a sound engineer but I'd say it would be less. Someone in audience talking, but not using microphone, saying that "their own people" stated that it gets louder as it goes out. They even heard it down at the church in Old Peruville. Sue Bennett - I'm just saying that the Town of Ithaca's noise ordinance is excellent and they're continuing to function on a normal basis daily. I understand if you don't want to unduly restrict people, but we want protection from excessive noise, from what we have experienced. If we had a decent neighbor, we wouldn't be here, but we don't. So we are still asking you for protection. And so I need to know what's the next step and I'll stop now and see if anyone else wants to speak. Supervisor Morey - Well, we're open to suggestions, Sue. We can go back, and I have on the agenda to set dates for Code review and we certainly can do that again. We can put this on hold until we get it right. Sue Bennett - I'd at least like it put on hold. Supervisor Morey - But you know it's going into the spring. We're still not going to have a mass gathering Sue Bennett - But your current Code prevents it, Glenn. The current Code prevents any land use Supervisor Morey- Well, I'll find out but I didn't think that. Sue Bennett - And I checked into it. I understand that Gary was doing the best he had with the information he had. This is an unprecedented area that we're in and he just thought that they didn't need to do anything. It's not an allowed use and he shouldn't have said it's okay, there's no regulation, because it's not an allowed use. Supervisor Morey- Okay, we'll find out about that. Councilman Scheffler - I can give you an example, and I have to say it sort of tongue-in-cheek because I don't really believe it, but I could hear the festival at my house and it was five miles away. It wasn't obnoxious, but I could hear it. About a month ago, I was in my house and I heard boom, boom, thumping, and thought what's this. I went outside and I could hear every word of the introductions at the Groton football game which is five and a half miles away. Every word of it, from my porch. I could hear the Star Spangled Banner, every word of it. It was Town Board Minutes Page 5 December 8, 2009 louder than the festival. So, when you start getting a noise are you going to permit every football game, every basketball game because there's 9 Sue Bennett -No, because there's exempted uses. In the Town of Ithaca Code there's exempted uses. Councilman Scheffler - Well then you're picking on someone. You know, noise is noise. Sue Bennett - Another one is that he's running it as a business and again, that shouldn't have been allowed. That's also another permit that's required by the Town of Groton and that wasn't issued. It's not legal. It just should never have been allowed and should not continue to be allowed. Councilman Scheffler -What will you allow? Sue Bennett - What will I allow? Whatever goes with the Code. Let me let other people speak. There are other people who have very strong opinions about this. Daniel Sudilovsky - I own the property immediately adjacent to the Eckert's. I'd like to start my comments with a question if anybody can answer this, even tongue-in-check. Outside of public events, like public high school football events, can anybody name in recent memory any privately held event anywhere within your jurisdiction that was anywhere near 350 people outside of this? Supervisor Morey - I'm sure there was something at the gun club or the horseshoe place or someplace like that, but specifically, no I haven't had a complaint like this. Daniel Sudilovsky - I guess my comment is, Town of Ithaca scale is one thing, the population center is dramatically bigger than either the Town or Village of Groton 7 ...So to put this into scale of our region in the Town of Groton, 350 people is very, very lenient and there's no way on earth, that these, I think reasonably well thought regulations are going to apply and what's going to happen is whether it's tabled or whether it's passed, we're going to be here every meeting from here on in. Supervisor Morey- That would be great. Daniel Sudilovsky - Well, eventually things don't get done and then escalate and I think what's going to happen is that your saying, I understand that you don't want to over-regulate...but people can manipulate the regulations and they can get unreasonable in the other direction as well. I absolutely agree with that. But what I think is going to happen here is this is going to escalate the other direction and whereas we can't get satisfaction to, I think, go the appropriate route to get satisfaction and preserve our tranquility as to the spirit of the regulations, this is going to go escalate into more disruptive meetings here; it's going to escalate into civil action if necessary. And I don't think that anybody who is attending these meetings is going to all of a sudden let it go and let these festivals continue and to disrupt our lives and disrupt our use of our homes. I don't see that happening. I see that not regulating this in a reasonable way that will be applicable to this event is going to lead to this escalating in the other direction. Supervisor Morey- That sounds like a threat to me. Town Board Minutes Page 6 December 8, 2009 Daniel Sudilovsky- I'm just saying that we are already committed to this. If this was happening where it was affecting your home, you would be just as committed as we are. Five miles away, and I guarantee that if you were half mile away from this, as my house is, you would feel completely differently than you do about saying, okay, it wasn't so bad. Five miles away is quite a distance. My house, with 30 animals on my property going ballistic from time to time 7 .. and there's no way to control that if they hear this sort of sound. It's destructive to my business on my farm. If I was five and a half miles away I probably wouldn't hear it and it wouldn't be an issue. It's not a threat but what it is, is we as a community have gotten together, we've got an issue, and we're hoping that the Town council will help to resolve this for us. If we can't resolve it through this means, we will try to resolve it through any means at our disposal with our resources. It's not a threat but this is what needs to be happening. I don't think 350 people is reasonable for the scale Supervisor Morey- What is reasonable? Daniel Sudilovsky - I think that a pretty darn big party in our part of town is 100 people and I don't think that they could get Supervisor Morey - But we're not talking about just your part of town. We're talking about town wide. Daniel Sudilovsky - Town wide. Outside of the Village of Groton our population isn't any different than anything else Supervisor Morey-What about the horseshoe event that they have. What about Daniel Sudilovsky - Well, 100, that should be prudent, why not? I mean, this is reasonable if it's not a 3-day event. Why shouldn't that be permitted? If was having a horseshow on my farm I think it would be perfectly reasonable to have to get a permit to make sure that I have crowd control, that I have parking, that I can be insured in case something happens. I don't think it's unreasonable to do that. If I was going to have 500 people at a horseshow on my farm I certainly would think it reasonable to get a permit. We're not talking about an event every week in Groton, we're talking about a few events a year that would have to require a permit. I think the number should be such that these events couldn't get around the regulations. That's what I'm worried about. If the number is 350 they can easily say we're expecting around 325. Then none of your efforts which I think are 7 .. to find a happy medium such that we can indeed preserve the tranquility and peace in our area..? .....they'll skirt right around it. Supervisor Morey - You've been quoting Town of Ithaca laws. What is their mass gathering Sue? Ms. Bennett did not use microphone. She said something about turning in a copy of a noise ordinance. Daniel Sudilovsky - I think that we as a community, we're not going to go ahead until we have, we have a legitimate complaint here and I think we're going to continue on until we have, I personally, if they want to hold their festival, fine so long as it does not impact on my use of my home and my property and the noise is an enormous issue to me. The traffic and the safety issues I'm sure are bigger issues for people who are on the same road as him. I don't necessarily Town Board Minutes Page 7 December 8, 2009 want to make it completely illegal if it's my personal choice. I feel strongly to that effect but I think that and others feel strongly and I respect that as well. I personally think that the regulations should be made 7 .this very unusually large events and unusually disruptive events for this Town and this area needs to fall under some regulations and the way that this was written based on the definition of what is a mass gathering in our community........?... Peter Clark - I'd like to speak against the noise ordinance. I don't think it's restrictive enough. I think the number is too high. I think a sound requirement is needed. I think one of the problems with the festival that we had in Peruville is the duration of the festival. Donald Scheffler asked earlier, what noise is okay? I live three miles from here; fireworks go off; they upset my animals; once a year. I can put up with it once a year for an hour, hour and a half. The festival is three days. I'd like to read from the Joint Comprehensive Plan that the Town has adopted. This is based on questionnaires sent out to population; there were 457 responses. Fourth item on what you love about Groton, it's quiet peaceful character. In the top twenty, what would you change in Groton, better noise control, autos, trucks, snowmobiles, radios. That's what people of Groton said they want. Supervisor Morey asked Mr. Clark how many would be an acceptable number for him and Mr. Clark replied that he thought 100 would be appropriate. Laurie Gardener- I have a couple of concerns here. The first one was you comparing, in terms of looking for other ordinances, you're comparing it to Saratoga Springs and Ithaca which are both much larger; more developed; there's a lot of buildings that absorb sounds; and out here it's a rural area where sound travels and not only travels but we have hills and dells and the landscape itself can serve as an amplifier. So, I think you really can't compare, even if you lower the numbers, you can't compare the kind of regulations that they might have in Ithaca to out here where the sound will just really, really move. And then to begin with, this is obviously a commercial venture and it's in an area that isn't zoned for it. I mean it's one thing if I'm having a graduation party or a wedding party or a birthday party and I invite people or someone is holding an event like this where the whole public is welcome and they're charging. That's a commercial venture. And first, it shouldn't be allowed there and if it is to be allowed there then there has to be controls on it; there has to be sound controls; there has to be controls over how alcohol is used or who's paying for security. Certainly if alcohol is being used, if people are running around drinking and driving and everything else and this Board needs to do that because otherwise the quality of life of the residents of Groton will be seriously reduced. That isn't what Groton residents want and if this Board doesn't want to do that then I'm sure the Groton residents will elect a Board that will protect our quality of life. Supervisor Morey asked how many she thought would be acceptable. Laurie Gardener - I think probably over 100 but I think first that it is commercial. That is a commercial venture and if a commercial venture is to be allowed in that area there has to be a hearing with the neighbors and there has to be certain things set for a commercial venture, period. But I think an event of over 100 should require a permit and there should be certain controls on it. Joe Bennett - I couldn't support your mass gathering ordinance the way it is now. It's way to vague and has too many loopholes. I also feel, probably a little different than some people here, including my wife, to me a noise ordinance would resolve a lot of issues. I don't feel that is Town Board Minutes Page 8 December 8, 2009 picking on Bob Eckert. I don't care if it's my neighbor, one of these people in this room, if there's a noise ordinance and there's a violation to where it's disruptive to my lifestyle, then I want to be able to call law enforcement and currently if you call law enforcement, they will tell me that there is no ordinance for them to enforce. The problem with your mass gathering ordinance is if it's over 350 people you, as a Board, may allow certain variances to that which law enforcement won't be aware of, I won't be aware of, and makes it virtually unenforceable at the time of an event. So, to me, a noise ordinance is what's required here. I also feel that a noise ordinance will help resolve some of the issues of a festival because if they can't comply to the noise ordinance then I would think that would be taken into consideration for any future permit. My number for mass gatherings, I frankly don't care what other do on their property as long as it doesn't affect me. If I had to pick a number I'd say maybe over 100 should have one. Supervisor Morey - I thought the mass gathering, with having to notify the police, the fire department, the health department and some others..... Joe Bennett- You can notify them but does that make a violation Supervisor Morey - Well before they got their permit they'd have to get a letter stating that they had gone to them and they know it will happen. Sue Bennett - What would the enforcement procedure be then? They wouldn't know if there were any conditions, what the conditions of their permit is so that if you, I'm not saying copy the Town of Ithaca, but it has some excellent points in it just as the one from Groton. I didn't print that off; you can print those. You can just combine some of these things. You can just add to your mass gathering ordinance and fix it, I feel. You can have it be 100 people to try to close some loopholes. You could then put in that sound can't travel past their property at a certain decibel level. That one, I think is very important. Then there's also a permitting process in place for the Town of Ithaca where the permit has to go to the Sheriff's Department so they know what the conditions are. So then if you call the police you can say they were supposed to shut down at 10 o'clock because they're not going to know what time they're supposed to close down. Supervisor Morey - One other thing, we have to make sure that this mass gatherings, that we can't be sued. That's why we run it through our legal advisors too. Wayne Snyder - I think we need the noise ordinance. We're talking about mass gatherings and how many people we're going to allow. I don't think it matters how many people are there. The music is still going to be blaring. Eckert's, if there's 25 people there, they're still going to have this music blaring. I guess I don't see the point of a mass gathering, what that's going to do. I think just a noise ordinance, a decibel limit to what they're going to play. Don Scheffler said he could hear it five miles away at his house; he could barely hear it but he could hear it. Councilman Scheffler - But I can hear other things too. So, where do you want to draw the line? Wayne Snyder - I don't think anybody here or anybody I know, if somebody's going to have a wedding or a graduation party or a birthday party, it goes on for a few hours. It's not going to go on from 9 in the morning till 2 in the morning. You know when these parties go from 9 in the morning to 2 in the morning for 3 days in a row and all you hear is loud music and cussing and swearing over the microphones, traffic, I mean, you should have seen the trash I had to pick up Town Board Minutes Page 9 December 8, 2009 in my front yard on my property. I've got 400 foot of road frontage and I had beer cans and bottles smashed in the road. I mean, Sherry O'Brien passed away and they had an auction over there and you know I had to pick trash up out of my ditch line when they had the auction. That's a one-day thing, it happens. But you know, I don't know, something's got to be done. Supervisor Morey- And we're trying to do it. Wayne Snyder - It's not a threat but if you guys aren't going to do it for us, I'm sure we're going to go higher up and we'll get somebody who will do it for us. That's all I've got to say and if you take it as a threat, I guess you can take it as a threat, I really don't care. Robin Snyder - I just would like to make a comment on Don Scheffler's statement. You're afraid that if there's a noise ordinance that people are going to call in and complain about everything. I don't think, how many times have people called up and complained about a graduation party, complained about a wedding, complained about different other events that have taken place and I think you're going to find out that that is very, very minimal. I don't think people in general call up and complain about those types of things.....?....we know in June they're having graduation parties, they're not going to call up and complain about that. We're not that ridiculous. Supervisor Morey - Robin, I got a phone call at 11:30 when the bus came back from the football game and all the sirens were going. Robin Snyder - That was in the Village? Okay, well, all right, you're going to have maybe an anal person. But what I'm saying, how often does it happen,not very often. Councilman Scheffler - I did have a complaint about a year ago from a wedding reception. I understand where you're coming from, and I don't agree with it either. I think people should respect each other. He should have respect for you and everybody should have respect for what he wants to do. It's his land too. I'd like to see everybody get along and I understand it doesn't happen. But I don't want to pass something that's going to limit or start something that's going to just escalate forever and ever because if we do have a noise law a couple years from now somebody's going to say well, this is noisy, and I don't like that. Robin Snyder - We had neighbors a few years ago with kids, down the road from us. It was unreal what we were going through. They had a band in their garage. It was the f-yous all the time, the screaming. My husband went over and asked them politely; I had my kitchen window open; the kid said f-you as he was driving his truck down the road. Do I wish there was a noise ordinance at that point in time, yes I do. Then we'd have ' .the kids that swore at my husband. You know, I think, what, this is ridiculous, these events are ridiculous. A man in audience said they went through that too and went through 17 mailboxes and the kids thought it was a big joke. Finally the police did do something about it; they went over and told the parents that something needs to be done and if their kids didn't knock it off, they would be arrested for disorderly conduct. Then it stopped. Robin Snyder - Whether there was a law for it or not, we don't know. They got sick of us calling for our mailboxes being broken. They'd drive by and give my husband the finger, whatever. That's what we have dealt with in the past. So, it's something that does need to be Town Board Minutes Page 10 December 8, 2009 done and I don't think I feel that, you know, you may get a phone call once in a while about, if you're getting them know, yeah, maybe you'll get a few then. But we need to do something with the decimals. I've had people at my house before. All my kids have graduated; I've had graduation parties; I've had over 100 people there. I don't think one neighbor knew I was having, I swear to God, a graduation party because I didn't have the music blaring so loud that Yungers' windows were shaking and that was out of respect for them. Several Councilmen say that's the way it should be. Supervisor Morey- How many people, Robin? Robin Snyder - 100. George Miller - My property butts right up to Eckert's. To the great delight of some of the bus drivers, they called me up and asked me if they could listen to the party. Anyways, we're talking about mass gatherings. Over 100 people, if they're nice people or not so nice people. The not so nice people are just waiting for one of these things to happen 7 ..that's my experience. You get 3 or 4 cops taking a chance (not speaking into microphone) .I would say ...noise ordinance and mass gathering for this small community. Sandy Swearingen - I'm against your mass gathering ordinance. I'm in agreement with Joe Bennett; I do feel that I'm not really here about mass gathering as much as I am about the noise because it just totally disrupts you. I'm also concerned about the way you wrote an event that's temporary in nature. I guess I'd like to have a definition of what temporary in nature is. Is that once a year; is that seasonal; we can have events all summer long? Because Mrs. Eckert, herself, came to my home and spoke to me after the last event and she told me that they had 300 people or less each day of that event. So, that means she would definitely fall within the guidelines the way you've got this written and that would be totally allowable and they would be able to be noisy. Then if temporary is not defined, is it every weekend that we would be subjected to this? Supervisor Morey- I wouldn't think that every weekend is temporary. Sandy Swearingen - But there's no definition so there's another loophole that I think needs to be looked at. I also have a concern that the Board members are giving their own personal views on this issue of noise and mass gatherings to other people. I was talked to actually today by someone who said a Board member here did speak to them and gave their own personal view that they do not agree with a noise ordinance and if you get a noise ordinance, that would be awful and a mass gathering, you wouldn't be able to have any kind of Christian event, or you wouldn't be able to have weddings, or you wouldn't be to do this or that, or birthday parties, or graduations and the person was quite concerned that that would happen. I think that you members are voted in and are paid to do your jobs and you should keep your views to yourself You are entitled to a view just because of the freedom of rights, but your views should not be voiced; you should keep that quiet. I'm the president of a union and I have to keep my opinion to myself when I have to represent one of my members when they are in trouble or in need. I can't give my view, I just have to be there for them and you're supposed to be here for the Town of Groton and for the people that you represent. Supervisor Morey- Sandy, how many? 100? Sandy Swearingen - I want 50. Town Board Minutes Page 11 December 8, 2009 Daniel Sudilovsky - I want to make a quick comment. It sounds to me like the Board is on the page that any sound ordinance will be all encompassing and will omit events that almost, events that almost anyone in the population would see as perfectly reasonable, and I think it's your job as law makers to come up with a regulation that will not include events like football games, like weddings, that are held to 9 .what are acceptable for most of the population and yet will control events .(not using microphone)...entire community to show up at your meetings..... It's clear that these are not all....types of events. This event, the noise generated by this event was clearly far and above what you would generally get in a community to generate this sort of reaction. Should be able to come up with a noise regulation that would be a fair balance between the two, limit the noise based on 9 .and not encroach on more customary activities. Supervisor Morey - Dan, I'm not afraid of getting something on the books. What the problem is, this might take 3 months. What we have right now is nothing. What I'd like to do is get something on the books, at least something. (Daniel Sudilovsky says something.) Okay then if we go into June and we have nothing on the books Sue Bennett - You have a Code on the books, Glenn. It does not allow these. Supervisor Morey- Okay, we'll have to talk to our lawyers about that. Sue Bennett - Gary made a judgment error. I can't help that. It just needs to be corrected. Daniel Sudilovsky - I think what it is, is if this goes in the books, you're still not going to resolve any problems because of the numbers involved. Hugh Keegan - My property butts right up to the Eckert property. Your last statement there, Glenn, about talking to your lawyers. Having been a ZBA Chair, you can get legal advice to go to court and still loose. So, you have to watch that. I think I'd like to make some suggestions, and I can appreciate your effort for trying to come up with a Code for the entire Town area. I think one of the things you might want to look at is your definitions. Mass gatherings is a little too broad in my opinion. I would start to, say, look at mass gatherings and what would be defined under mass gatherings. So, you might have concerts being one thing, weddings being one thing, and then you might have to look at each one of those things as individual activities and have parameters set for each one of them including those noise ordinances. Some of the other things that I see as a bit of an issue is that you've got what you've kind of classified as a mass gathering but what we're really looking at is a concert where we have a public attended activity in a non-use zoned area. It's not private gatherings; that might be a wedding or a some other private event, but now we've got public use on private property in non-zoned areas. And it wasn't enforced. We've already had 2 of those events and it wasn't enforced. I don't see how that really works that way, allowing a public use in an agricultural residential. So, now should you have residents say, look we're going to take this to court and we're going to say let's look at the assessment. So, we've got residential agricultural and now you're allowing light commercial business activity in a non-zoned use area. So, they say we want all our properties reassessed at a different rate because we purchased our properties in residential agricultural area and now we've got a commercial area. So, I think definitions are really important to help you not go down that kind of a road so that we get into assessment issues and other kinds of issues we don't want to get into as a town and I think it would help you that if someone comes in front of you that wants to have a concert and you've got your mass gatherings and underneath that as activity is a concert then you would have your parameters set up to review that case and go through your Town Board Minutes Page 12 December 8, 2009 SEQR and your neighbors have to come in and give their opinions and then you can make your vote on that. So, I think the definitions are going to help to alleviate their concerns and also to give you some parameters and guidance as you look at each activity individually. But I can really appreciate what you're going through. I've seen worse. It's just, I would say Glenn, don't worry about the 3 months. It's better off to get it right the first time, whatever it takes because the other way is just too many headaches. Steve Simmons - As we were talking, this is land use activities, 302. I think the problem being right now, we don't even have the Code in force. We have a draft. We have a Code that dates back to I think 1993 and that's what we're trying to base everything on. I think what you've done is a start. I have to say I appreciate the work that has been put into it so far, but again, I think like everybody else says here, I think it falls short. I think Mr. Keegan's comments are very well put. I think the definitions are needed. I don't know if you've looked at Trumansburg, but Trumansburg has a festival over there. They have some other lists of how they do their, they don't call them mass gatherings, but their events, so to speak. And they do have it specified to what the events are 7 .. It's obvious we need something. We're not trying to limit parties, weddings, reunions and again, one of the big things, whether it's by invitation, which are weddings and reunions or whether it's a public gathering. I think there's a lot of discrepancy and I think they're two different things that we're talking about. As far as noise, Don, you said you could hear the noise up to your place, but again, it .? what we're looking for is a noise level at a certain distance. You know, (was not speaking into microphone. Said something about 3 days being too much and that it is not allowed even under the old Code and that it is not allowed in the new draft in the rural agricultural. Several people speak at once agreeing. Sue Bennett said it was identical in the old Code and she paid her 10 bucks to get a copy. No one was speaking into microphone.) Pat Nyman - I don't really have much new to add, only that I did miss the first meeting and I did want to tell you how frustrating and upsetting this whole thing is to us. We live almost exactly a mile away. The pounding that went on with this so-called music just was driving me something crazy. I felt like I was going to be climbing the walls. I mean, here it is summer and we have to close our windows to try to get it out, to try to have it so we can sleep and we're a mile away from it. I'm out walking my dog at 9:30 at night and I hear this on the microphone saying this is for all you mother-efers. I mean, I shouldn't be exposed to that and my grandkids, I would never 7 if they were at my house when this was going on. There was a sign on our road at the corner that said keep driving you mother-efers. I mean that's ridiculous. We live in a house that's really to big for us but we decided to stay in our house because we love where we are. It's quiet; it's a beautiful place; we have birds; we sit out on our deck and expect to be respected by our neighbors. This was just an onslaught and we thought, okay June they did it once but then 3 days in August, 3 full days of this pounding sound, it's like driving you up the wall. I think there has to be a noise ordinance because if you do a mass gathering or else you've got to just separate this 7 ..from a private party type thing because there's no way this one is going to keep them from doing it because they didn't break any of the rules on there the way it was now, they could do the same thing again. Sue Bennett - So, will we be able to be updated by the Board as to what your intentions are? Supervisor Morey - Yes, I'll just contact you since you. You're the chairman of this committee? Town Board Minutes Page 13 December 8, 2009 Sue Bennett - I consider myself that. Supervisor Morey - So, I'll just contact you. We will most likely have a meeting next Tuesday to discuss the Code review. Attorney Monty - There will be public hearings as well. At this point you're not at the stage where you're ready to present the law for consideration. Sue Bennett - So, is that like a work session? Supervisor Morey- Yes, it's just a work session. I'll keep in contact with you. Monthly Reports: Elizabeth Brennan, Bookkeeper/Highway Clerk - Was not present but had submitted monthly reports for the Board's review. RESOLUTION #09-079 - 2009 BUDGET TRANSFER MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Clark, Morey General Fund-Part Town: From: Contingency B1990.4 174.63 To: Youth Program B7320.4 172.13 To: Deputy Clerk, Planning B802012 2.50 Gary Coats, Code/Fire Enforcement Officer - Was absent. Monthly reports were submitted for the Board's review. Richard C. Case, Jr., Highway Superintendent - Was absent. Robin Cargian, Deputy Clerk - Read the following report for the Town Clerk: You have the monthly Town Clerk's Report and monthly report from Country Acres Pet Services. We received a notice from Stonehedges Country Club, pursuant to Section 64 of Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, informing us that they are applying to the State Liquor Authority for approval to alter the premises by enclosing the deck area. The Town Board has 30 days in which to make a comment to the Liquor Authority if they desire. Essentially, what we need from you is a consensus as to whether you approve or not much like you do when they renew their liquor license. Town Board Minutes Page 14 December 8, 2009 If you wish to pass a local law to increase the senior citizen and disability tax exemptions you will need to have a public hearing in January or February so that it is in place before March 1st which is Taxable Status Date. Consensus of the Board was that they had no objections to the alteration of the Stonehedges Country Club. Victoria Monty, Attorney for the Town - The only thing I have to report is that my partner, Fran Casullo is working with the Town on the zoning and SEQR. Fran indicated that once it is in a more final form that he will review that in more detail. I did tell April and Gary that they should contact him directly if there are any questions that pop up along the way. John Norman & A. D. Dawson, Town Justices - Were absent. Monthly reports were submitted for the Board's review. Councilman Donald Scheffler, as Recreation Coordinator - Did not have a meeting this month and had nothing to report. Duane Randall, County Legislator - I'd like to say, it's not easy sitting up there on nights like tonight. It certainly brought back some memories. I'm not going to say they were fond memories, but they did bring back memories. One thing I can say after sitting on the County Board for 4 years, it's kind of nice to here the grassroots, common sense approach to government that you hear here. I did not hear that much at the County level. I miss it, regardless of how you feel about that, they make a lot of sense and it's nice to hear that from the people. With that being said, I'd just like to thank the Board for being very supportive over the last 4 years. I think it was vital that the communication between the Town and the County was instrumental in a lot of changes and preventing a lot of things from happening that affected how you live here in the country. I appreciate that. I appreciate the honor of being able to serve the people of the Town and I'm going to certainly miss it. My life got a little complicated after getting in office so it's time to move on. I congratulate Brian Robison for taking the spot and I wish him a lot of luck. Supervisor Morey- On behalf of the Town Board and the Town of Groton, we thank you. Rosemarie Tucker, Town Historian - Finally my book is here so I can give copies to the Town Board. I have one that I have signed for each one of you. I also have one that I am giving to the Town Clerk's Office to be retained as part of the records. I already gave April and Robin personal copies. Supervisor Morey - I cheated and looked at the book several times and it's really fantastic. Thank you very much, this is great. Discussion took place on the possibility of raising the limits on real property tax exemptions for senior citizens and persons with disabilities on a limited income. The consensus of the Board was that they would not do it this year,possibly next year. Contracts had been received for the Drug and Alcohol Testing Consortium. Town Board Minutes Page 15 December 8, 2009 RESOLUTION #09-80 -APPROVE DRUG& ALCOHOL TESTING CONSORTIUM CONTRACT MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Scheffler Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Clark, Morey RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the 2010 Contract for the Drug and Alcohol Testing Consortium and grants authority to Supervisor Morey to sign said contract. Consensus of the Board was to set the 2010 Organizational Meeting for Tuesday, January 12, 2010, at 7:30 PM, at the Town Hall. RESOLUTION#09-091 -APPROVE 2010 GROTON HIGHWAY ASSOCIATION CONTRACT MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Clark Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Clark, Morey RESOLVED, that the Town of Groton Highway Employees be granted the following for the year 2010: 1) 2.5%per hour raise in pay across the board. 2) Raise clothing/boot allowance to $250.00 per year. 3) Raise Auto Mechanic's tool allotment to $1,800.00. 4) Raise maximum accumulated sick leave to one hundred and five (105) days or eight hundred and forty(840)hours. Supervisor Morey - I went to a Tompkins County Council of Governments (TCCOG) and they want to get together and share in the costs, it will be about $2,000, to hire Gary Crow of Thayer and Thayer to discuss road preservation laws. They understand that the fracking for natural gas is going to be controlled directly by the DEC. But what they would like to do is write a road ordinance or law to cover the effect to the roads that these heavy trucks will be going down. The expense will be shared among the towns at $2,000 each. It will deal with excavation, road damages, permitting process, Ag & Markets, logging roads, things like that. Lansing does have an ordinance but it basically deals with heavy equipment and excavation equipment. I'm not sure if they have to get into farm equipment. Consensus of the Board was to wait until they had more information. Supervisor Morey - The Health Insurance Coverage, letters will be going out to the employees and comparison of our present health insurance policy showing what it will be under the Consortium. It will be the exact same thing. Town Board Minutes Page 16 December 8, 2009 MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, to enter into Executive Session to inform the Board about some employee benefits at 8:05 PM. Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Clark, Morey MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman, to return to Regular Session at 8:15 PM. Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Clark, Morey No decision was made by the Board during Executive Session; it was for informational purposes only. A Work Session for Code Review was set for Tuesday, December 15, 2009 at 6:00 PM at the Town Hall. Announcements: ➢ Zoning Board of Appeals - December 23 at 7:00 PM ➢ Planning Board- December 17 at 7:30 PM ➢ Groton Business Association Holiday Party - December 17 at 5:30 PM at Benn Conger Inn ➢ Thank you card was received from the Gamel family following the passing of Councilman Gamel's father. There being no further business, Councilman Sovocool moved to adjourn, seconded by Councilman Scheffler, at 8:17 PM. Unanimous. April L. Scheffler, RMC Town Clerk