HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-10-30 TOWN OF GROTON — MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING
PUBLIC HEARING ON PRELIMINARY 2008 BUDGET
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2007 AT 7:00 PM
THE TOWN HALL, 101 CONGER BOULEVARD
Those present: Glenn E. Morey, Supervisor
Ellard L. Sovocool, Councilman
Donald F. Scheffler, Councilman
Richard B. Gamel, Councilman
Sheldon C. Clark, Councilman
Also present: Amber Carmon, Matt Sparling, Elizabeth Brennan, April Scheffler.
Supervisor Morey began the meeting by offering Privilege of the Floor.
Matt Sparling - My issue with the Budget is how come you are switching away from the SPCA.
My concern is that this new thing is not a no-kill shelter. He's not any cheaper. It doesn't seem
like a good move to me. The guy's got 16 other municipalities in 3 other counties. It seems like
we're throwing good money after bad.
Councilman Sovocool -And he is taking care of all of them.
Supervisor Morey- Matt, where are you from,right here in Groton?
Mr. Sparling - I live in Groton. I'm a taxpayer. My issue, I know that there's been some
complaints about the SPCA but seems like a large organization like that would better provide us
than a small 2-person operation. I think that you guys switching is just a vote to kill animals,
that's all it is. You're throwing money away to kill animals.
Councilman Sovocool - They don't kill any more animals over there than they do down to the
SPCA.
Mr. Sparling - Sure they do. They only have to keep them for 5 days. That's all they have to
do by law, I don't see anything else, it's been quoted in the paper.
Several Councilmen say that is all the SPCA is required to do.
Mr. Sparling-But they don't do that.
Councilman Sovocool-Neither does he.
Councilman Scheffler-No, he told us that a lot of times it's up to 9 months that they keep dogs.
They don't kill dogs as long as they have room for them.
Public Hearing-2008 Budget Page 2 October 30, 2007
Mr. Sparling- Then again,you're switching from one place that won't do that to one that will.
Supervisor Morey - Wait, wait. SPCA does kill animals. They have killed 12% of the animals
that go from Groton to Tompkins County.
Mr. Sparling - But not because of over, I mean they won't kill them because they don't have
room for them, only because they are sick, injured or other, but I have a real issue. I think
you're making a mistake.
Supervisor Morey - Matt, we have a fact sheet here to give you, some things that the SPCA has
said and what the Board's facts are.
Mr. Sparling- This is provided by the SPCA?
Supervisor Morey - No, the SPCA statement is on the website and this is exactly what they
have said and then our facts that we speak about. It's our side versus their side. I think you have
been getting all of their side and you haven't heard anything from us.
Mr. Sparling-Well, I understand that it was a huge increase.
Supervisor Morey - Yes, extremely, if we had to take their increase. First of all, they told us in
September during our budget meetings. We weren't prepared to do anything other than find
another choice. It was either theirs or not. They never came out to talk to us like they have in
the past to negotiate a contract. We felt that we were against the wall, so we decided to look
elsewhere. If we went with theirs, we would have to raise the total tax 2% for the whole Town
and we really weren't in the position where we could do something like that. There's a lot of
people out there that can't pay the taxes now, a lot more than you can imagine, and we felt that
this was the best way to go. We all went over to see this place and we made the decision that we
had to go with that.
Mr. Sparling - Well, I reiterate again, that it was the wrong one. I don't understand how you
can sit there when I have a copy of a letter, back in '06, that says that they had contacted you
then and there was going to be an increase.
Supervisor Morey-No, they didn't.
Mr. Sparling -What?
Supervisor Morey- I know you have a copy of it, but we never received a copy.
Mr. Sparling - Doesn't something seem fishy here?
Councilman Scheffler - No one has contacted any of us, but everyone gets their information
from the SPCA and the Ithaca Journal. Nobody calls us or asks us what our side of it is.
Mr. Sparling - How come all the other towns in the County knew about this? They don't seem
surprised about it.
Supervisor Morey- I don't believe they knew.
Public Hearing-2008 Budget Page 3 October 30, 2007
Councilman Gamel - Dryden had the exact same response that we did. They were looking into
this gentleman as well.
Mr. Sparling-Yeah, well, I know that.
Councilman Gamel - I think if you read what Glenn gave you there....I'm an animal lover, as
much as anyone and I would not have felt comfortable with this decision unless I went to look
and saw what we saw. I know a number of people who would actually be willing to stand up and
say that they got their pet from there, as an adopted pet. They were given not only the pet at a
reasonable price without a lengthy requirement that you have to get through the SPCA to even
adopt a pet, but they were also given, at the time, I think I was told that he works a deal with area
vets to get the spaying and neutering done at a reduced cost. A friend of mine received a $50 gift
certificate off the cost of spaying his dog at the time that he paid the $25 to get his dog. I would
not have felt comfortable with this decision unless I felt comfortable that he was doing as good if
not better a job than we have ever gotten from the SPCA. You say he only keeps a dog 5 days
and he kills them
Mr. Sparling-Well, that's by law, I don't know
Councilman Gamel- Well so does the SPCA
Mr. Sparling - Right, but everybody here knows they're not going to go out and kill
Councilman Gamel - .....But if you read this, I think you'll find that he doesn't do that either.
They keep a dog there as long as they can possibly keep a dog there. But there was a dog there
that was being adopted the day we were there that had been there 4 months. You can tell that
they care for the animals. The dogs are fed. The cages were clean. Again, I wouldn't have felt
comfortable about this decision, I have a dog myself and I am as big a crazy person over animals
as anybody out there, and I certainly would not have felt comfortable with this decision if I did
not feel that this was the right thing to do. I know what the SPCA wrote. I saw it, the same as
you've seen it. And it does sound they are giving the world and the bottom line is that it's not
true. If you read this, where it says SPCA and then FACT, the SPCA is exactly what they've
said. For example, "Dog control is a State mandated service that each town has to provide and
the SPCA has contracts with all the municipalities in Tompkins County." And then our rebuttal,
if you will, is the FACT underneath it. These are facts that we have gotten over the past while
being under contract with the SPCA. Here's the fourth one down that the SPCA said: "The
average cost of animal control nationwide is $4 to $6 per capita. We are receiving a $1.74 per
capita annually." Meaning that they are just doing way above and beyond the call of duty. The
FACT underneath it: "Article 7 of Ag & Markets Law requires that dog control be provided for
but it also states that a town is not required to spend more money for dog control than it takes in
from its license fees, impoundment fees and fines. Article 7 also states that money that is
retained by a town for license fees, impoundment fees and fines can only be spent on dogs. The
intent of this law and the fees paid by dog owners is that the dog owners are paying for dog
control, not the rest of the taxpayers." These are facts that we have to refute what the SPCA
says. They make it sound like we are the bad guys, and maybe in you're opinion that's what you
think, but I really think you need to see both sides of the story first. I understand where you're
coming from. We've gotten some emails from people in Ithaca and Oregon, places that have no
business telling the Town of Groton, whether it's me or you or anyone else, where to spend their
tax dollars. We've had a few from the Town of Groton and that's what we need to hear
Public Hearing-2008 Budget Page 4 October 30, 2007
obviously, from the people from the Town of Groton, not the people in Ithaca that the SPCA has
told to please email the Town of Groton and let them know where to spend their tax dollars
because it's ridiculous.
Councilman Scheffler - Also, we've had less than stellar service from the SPCA over the years.
They don't do service after 5 or on weekends when people are home. They say they have
emergency care, whatever that is. But the place we are going to has 24-7-365 days a year.
Councilman Gamel - That's way more service. I know, I've called the SPCA myself with stray
cats. I live out in the country and there are stray cats all the time. Like I said, I'm an animal
lover and I'm not the guy who goes out and shoots the cat out in my barn. I feed the cat until I
can get it to a home and if I can't find a home I end up calling the SPCA. The 3 times that I've
had to deal with the SPCA, I've gotten in my vehicle, driven to the SPCA and I've dropped the
cat off and felt, really, like I was doing them a disservice to have to bring this cat there, like it
was my fault that someone dropped it off at my house. I feel bad about that.
Now, the last one states it all and this is what people see, SPCA: "Animal control costs include
officers, equipment, kennel staff, medical staff, vehicles, insurance, administrative staff,
supplies, gas for vehicle and the cost to feed and care for 1,200 animals annually." And maybe
they do but this guy also has officers, equipment, kennel staff, medical staff, vehicles, the whole
thing. He's got that as well. But the facts are: "There is no dispute that there are costs involved.
But the Towns, while contracting to have Article 7 enforced, are not required to foot the bill for
all of the costs to operate the SPCA. Reports given to the Town of Groton" (these are reports
from the SPCA) "indicate that 37 dogs were impounded from Groton in all of last year. This
represents only 3% of the animals that the SPCA cares for annually. There are currently about
1390 dogs licensed in the Town of Groton." (April knows, she does all the licensing.) "Dogs
impounded for last year equal only about 2.7% of those dogs. The new proposed fee from the
SPCA would be a cost to the Town of $575.00 per dog." That's ridiculous. Now, the SPCA
doesn't tell you that, but that's what we are trying to refute here is that $575 for each dog that
they keep for their no-kill policy which isn't really any more of a no-kill policy than the
gentleman that we are going for, $575 per dog is a lot of money. These are facts.
Mr. Sparling- If you've got 500 dogs next year you're going to be paying $10 a dog.
Councilman Gamel - There's 1390 dogs licensed in this Town total, so the possibility that we
might have 500 of them picked up next year is a little hard to believe.
Mr. Sparling - I was just, well you know, you're comparing apples to oranges. You're paying
for a service, whether you're using it once or whether you're using it 1000 times a year.
Councilman Gamel - You're correct. And that's what we are paying for with him, is a service.
And it is a service that is 7 days a week, 365 days a year. You know, the SPCA is not available
on weekends, not available after 5.
Mr. Sparling - I don't know what problems other people have had, but my next door, which is a
drug house haven that the Village refuses to do anything about. That's another issue and you
guys can't control that. But they have dogs over there, and in fact I was in to talk to April a
month ago and she was helpful on it. They had a pit bull out there and they've had dogs out
there that don't get fed and every time I've called the SPCA they're taken care of it within hours.
Public Hearing-2008 Budget Page 5 October 30, 2007
I mean, sometimes I might call in the morning and there's a dog out there with no food and water
and I get home in the afternoon at 5, it's taken care of.
Councilman Scheffler- Call at 7 at night and see what happens.
Mr. Sparling - You know, I've called at night because there was one chained out there in the
cold, barking. I've had nothing but good experiences with them. One other question I'll ask, I
assume this contract is for a year?
Several Board Members say yes.
Mr. Sparling - So, this could be revisited if this guy turns out to not provide a good service?
Several Board Members say certainly, absolutely.
Mr. Sparling - Again, you're going from the SPCA, which is a large organization in one county
and you're going to a smaller organization that is doing 4 counties. He does Cayuga, he's going
to do Tompkins if you guys go with him, he does Cortland County, 17 townships in those 4
counties. You can't tell me he's going to have 3 or 4 officers on at any one time. If he's out in
Chenango County, you think you're going to get any better service here than the SPCA that's a
little bit away. I mean, I'm just raising these concerns.
Supervisor Morey-He's already come over and picked up dogs in the Town of Groton.
Mr. Sparling-Because he was pleading to get our business?
Supervisor Morey-No, no, no, this was before this ever came up. The SPCA wouldn't come to
service the Town and this guy was a friend and he came over and picked the dog up. On the
following Monday he called the SPCA and said do you want to come over and get the dog, I
picked it up in Tompkins County in the Town of Groton and they wouldn't come. You know,
we looked into him 2 years ago and he couldn't take it on then. He's a reputable man
Mr. Sparling - Well, like I said, you're paying more money and I think you're going to get no
better service.
Supervisor Morey- I don't understand paying more money. We're paying $8,000 less.
Mr. Sparling - No, well see, didn't you read the paper? The paper, they just negotiated, all the
other towns in the County for, I think it's really close to what you're paying with this.
Supervisor Morey - For 3 months. For only 3 months. Then it's going out to bid. They're only
paying for 3 months, January through March.
Mr. Sparling - I don't understand why we're the one town who refuses to work with the SPCA.
Every other town in the County gets that much better service?
Several Board Members say, no, they are all pretty upset.
Public Hearing-2008 Budget Page 6 October 30, 2007
Mr. Sparling - I understand but they're willing to work with them and you guys are not. I don't
understand.
Councilman Scheffler- They don't have any other choices. There's no one to go to.
Mr. Sparling-And we're just the lucky ones.
Several Board Members say, yes, we are.
Mr. Sparling - Again, I think you're making a mistake. I have just one more question, how
much does that work out in my taxes, dollar wise?
The Bookkeeper did some quick calculations and after some discussion an estimation was
reached.
Supervisor Morey - It would probably be somewhere around$25. But you remember, Matt, it's
not just you. There's a lot of people close to or on retirement....
Councilman Sovocool - There's a lot who can't afford an increase in taxes. We try to keep it
down to where it is right now.
Councilman Scheffler - There's people out there who are literally living on $400 a month and
trying to hang on to their house. I've had senior citizens actually telling me that they pay their
bills by cutting their pills in two and taking less drugs. If we try to tell them that we're going to
raise their taxes so we can give the SPCA a 100% raise, how do you stand there and tell them
that?
Mr. Sparling - We all have X amount of money. Just because they don't work and I do...my
taxes go up I don't necessarily have an extra $400 either, but
Councilman Gamel - I had a constituent call me tonight, not a friend of mine, and actually on a
different issue and we were talking and she mentioned the SPCA thing as well and said, I think
you guys made the right decision. So, I understand your point of view but also understand that
there's other points. And like I said, this isn't a woman that I know, not a friend of mine, who
said I appreciate what you have done with the SPCA. She said I know you're getting a lot of
flack over it but my husband and I really think it was the right decision that you made. So,
everyone has different opinions.
Councilman Scheffler-And you came in to voice yours, and that's good.
Supervisor Morey - Matt, this was not an easy decision to make. Every single one of us on this
bench went to tour the dog control person. We thought about this really hard and long. We're
going to take a year contract out and try to re-evaluate it through the year. April is going to put
on our Town of Groton website an adopt a dog program. He also is going to do that in Cortland
County. We made a tough decision and we had to make it.
Mr. Sparling - I just have one more question about this. When you switch do you have goals or
bench marks of how you're going to evaluate this?
Public Hearing-2008 Budget Page 7 October 30, 2007
Supervisor Morey - We will get a report once a month. Also, twice a month he'll be sitting
down with April to discuss the program, the policy and the procedures and what's happened.
Councilman Gamel - We actually saw one of the reports he sends out. This isn't something
new. It's something he's always done.
Mr. Sparling - But as far as the Board as a group, come this time next year, I don't want you to,
if you've been getting substandard service, I don't want you to just rubber stamp this guy again.
And I want to know, do you have some kind of bench mark for it?
Councilman Gamel - To just compare it to the SPCA and what we've had and if it's better
service for less money I think that's a no-brainer on our part.
Councilman Scheffler - They also come highly recommended by almost all of the veterinarians
around. I was in King Ferry last night and there was a sign up advertising for them, right there in
the veterinary's office. They all agree with what the guy is doing or they wouldn't be
recommending and advertising for him.
Supervisor Morey- Thank you for coming. Would you like to say something?
Amber Carmon - Yeah. You keep saying like this is the first time you heard it from the SPCA
but I researched the Council of Governments and you guys joined it I believe in June of 2006 and
hopefully that's to negotiate things as heads of towns and villages. How come you've only
attended one meeting? I mean if that's the whole point of this is to work on budgetary things and
do things as a group so you all have more power, why not go to those? You've been at one. I
have all the minutes. I mean and this issue was raised at those for at least the past couple
months.
Councilman Gamel - Our budget procedure starts in September, which is when we started this
decision making process. So, for the last couple of months would have been past the time that
we actually had this in our....
Ms. Carmon - But if you don't go to the meetings....
Supervisor Morey - Well, I do see every agenda and also the minutes afterwards. Right now
we're involved with trying to get health insurance information together. As far as going to the
meetings, they're at times when I can't make it really.
Ms. Carmon - There's alternates.
Supervisor Morey-Yeah.
Councilman Scheffler - And that's me. I mentioned to them that 9 or 10 o'clock in the morning
it's tough for me to close my one-man business and take a shower and drive to Ithaca for an hour
meeting and drive back and they all looked at me like I was strange, like "you have a job?"
Ms. Carmon - So, have another alternate or just go down the line, or have the Clerk go. I know
the Village has sent their clerk. It just seems really kind of a shame that you are missing out on
this group that has this power to act and negotiate and
Public Hearing-2008 Budget Page 8 October 30, 2007
Supervisor Morey-Yes, but every time they have something important,we are always involved
in it.
Ms. Carmon - Okay and how are you involved in it?
Supervisor Morey - Well, right now, we're getting information together for health insurance. I
think that's the biggest thing. I don't think issues like deer in Cayuga Heights is important to the
Town of Groton and some other things.
Ms. Carmon - So, it's just not important to attend these meetings.
Supervisor Morey -No, you're putting words in my mouth.
Ms. Carmon -No, I'm asking a question. I mean, why join a group if you don't think it's going
to be important?
Supervisor Morey - Because we do think it's important and when things concern the Town of
Groton, we do show up.
Ms. Carmon - So, the SPCA wasn't important when they met with them?
Supervisor Morey-No, you're not listening.
Ms. Carmon - I just think that it's kind of absurd that you don't attend the meetings for that
group. You're electing to not be a part of this group after you decided that it was a good group
to join last year in June of '06. It's a shame. But you stand here and plead ignorance on the
whole SPCA issue when you weren't at those meetings. You know, you say, the first time we
heard about it was September. I mean, I have the minutes from when they met with the SPCA.
Supervisor Morey- In September.
Ms. Carmon -No, I think the first meeting was in June of this year.
Several Board Members say they don't think so.
Ms. Carmon - Okay. It's a shame.
Supervisor Morey- Thank you, Amber.
PUBLIC HEARING ON PRELIMINARY 2008 BUDGET
Motion was made by Councilman Sovocool to open the Public Hearing on the Preliminary 2008
Budget, seconded by Councilman Clark, at 7:25 PM.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
Mr. Sparling and Ms. Carmon got up to leave.
Public Hearing-2008 Budget Page 9 October 30, 2007
Supervisor Morey- Thank you for coming. You can stay.
Mr. Sparling- That's alright, I've wasted enough of my time.
The Town Clerk read the Legal Notice for the Preliminary 2008 Budget Hearing and the 2008
Groton Fire Protection and Ambulance Budget Hearing as it appeared in the Town's legal paper,
the Groton Independent, on October 17, 2007.
Supervisor Morey asked if there were any comments. There were no members of the public
present and the Board had no comments.
Motion was made by Councilman Clark to close the Public Hearing, seconded by Councilman
Sovocool, at 7:30 PM.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
PUBLIC HEARING ON 2008 GROTON FIRE PROTECTION & AMBULANCE
Motion was made by Councilman Sovocool to open the Public Hearing on the Groton Fire
Protection and Ambulance Service 2008 Budget, seconded by Councilman Scheffler at 7:30 PM.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Gamel, Clark, Morey
Supervisor Morey asked if there were any comments. There were no members of the public or
the Fire Department present and the Board had no comments.
Motion was made by Councilman Gamel to close the Public Hearing, seconded by Councilman
Sovocool, at 7:32 PM.
Supervisor Morey announced that the next Board Meeting would be November 13, 2007 at 7:30
PM.
There being no further business, Councilman Gamel moved to adjourn, seconded by Councilman
Scheffler, at 7:33 PM. Unanimous.
April L. Scheffler, RMC
Town Clerk