Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1976-01-27 s GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING Held at the Town Hall Groton , N . Y . Tuesday - January 27 , 1976 - 8 : 30 PM PRESENT : H . Fink - Chairman* G . Totman - Vice -Chairman* F . Wilson* J . Laiacona* D . Payne* R . Gleason* C . Twigg* J . Bell - Recording Clerk* Keith Pierce* * - Denotes those present . H . Fink : Mr . Roger Gleason is here to present two minor subdivisions . R . Gleason : Mr . Pierce will be back later , - -he was here earlier . H . Fink : Let ' s do yours first , then , Roger . R . Gleason : There are two parts on the same deal here and this is the other one ( indicating it on map ) . The one you are looking at is located right here on Clark Street Extension , H . Fink : The wooded area to Clark Street , - - is this one piece , - - do you own all this ? R . Gleason : Here ' s my part right here , - - 12 . 2 and 16 and 17 . 2 . H . Fink : You ' re breaking this piece up , and this piece ? R . Gleason : These are two survey maps . H . Fink : They should be together , - - are these two tax deeded parcels ? R . Gleason : Right . H . Fink : It doesn ' t show the whole parcel , does it ? R . Gleason : There are going to be some more maps prepared . These are the survey maps of the parts that are surveyed out , - - O .K . ? H . Fink : Technically this should show the entire tract of that parcel . Maybe this lot on Clark Street Extension does but this one on Lick Street doesn ' t . R . Gleason : No it doesn ' t , - - this would be 12 . 2 , - - all this whole big area here , - - and 16 would be this area here . H . Fink : This one here should encompass the area you showed with your finger on the map . , - 1 - R . Gleason : I ' m not about to pay for surveying the whole darned farm . H . Fink : This one isn ' t too bad but it doesn ' t encompass the whole thing . This one here only showed the lot but let that map be blown up and put this one in there . R . Gleason : As a matter of fact there are some minor changes that have got to be made in this map but that is the area where they are anyways . F . Wilson : They have both been all surveyed , eh ? R . Gleason : Those are copies of the survey maps . H . Fink : That piece on Lick Street , - - that ' s woods , too , isn ' t it ? R . Gleason : Yes , - - just woods . H . Fink : Is there a creek runs through there ? R . Gleason : Yes , on the far edge of it . H . Fink : Is that on the low part of the lot ? R . Gleason : The creek is approximately the boundary , - - H . Fink : Is the Board willing to accept , - - if he encompasses this lot on Lick Street , - - if he puts it nn on the tax map without a survey of the whole parcel and just a survey of the lot he is selling , - - if itos on one map , will we accept that ? G . Totman : This other map that he has here shows the whole boundary line but is not surveyed . R . Gleason : This is the tax map . G . Totman : All you ' re asking for is a survey of the lots in question . Basically I think that ' s alright as long as you can see where everything is , I ' d be in favor of it . D . Payne : We want to see something like this with the survey in it . H . Fink : As far as the details go they will be on that map but not of the whole farm . J . Laiacona : That would seem to be quite fair to me . H . Fink : It doesn ' t call for a re - survey , - - they can do this in a matter of an hour or two . J . Laiacona : I have a question about the subdivision thing and that is if these are two separate parcels ; are they or aren ' t they ? H . Fink : He ' s selling a piece from each one . J . Laiacona : Does that really then become two subdivisions ? H . Fink : If he owned 5 parcels with 5 separate tax numbers sell a lot off each one . � - - if he wants to - 2 - v J . Laiacona : You have already sold one on this lot so you have to have a sub - division for this piece here ? R . Gleason : Yes . H . Fink : Subdivision regulations call for , - - and if you read between the lines , - - it ' s the intention of selling . F . Wilson : The second one , though . R . Gleason : I ' m not selling anything , - - I ' m just trading . H . Fink : What you do is your business . F . Wilson : You haven ' t sold any off this one yet ? R . Gleason : No , - - I don ' t intend to at this time . H . Fink : O .K . , - - just do that one for now . You can do it either way . R . Gleason : I ' ve submitted one - - basically this one , - - and if you have to have one here - - H . Fink : Just subdivide that one piece , - - take these back with you us a map of that area and we ' ll go on that . H . Fink : I have accepted Keith Pierce ' s check and application here . This is Mr . Keith Pierce who lives on Lick Street close to the corner of Elm Street Extension , G . Totman : Roger owns land over there , too . K . Pierce : He owns land everywhere . H . Fink : Here ' s Lick Street here , - -Elm Street Extension , - -which parcel is it , Roger ? R . Gleason : 13 . 57 . H . Fink : You have already bought a piece of that , Rog , which one is that ? R . Gleason : On the south side , - -bottom of the map . This piece here 18 acres into Woernley ' s and the remaining will be his own . J . Laiacona : He ' s giving him the back part of this here? K . Pierce : I ' m going to deed that to Roger . We don ' t run into the problem that by taking this 30 ft . off here it would jeopardize my frontage on my 2 parcels here . J . Laiacona : This is 330 ft . and you ' re thinking of dividing this into 2 more parcels ? K . Pierce : This is already divided at this point here . I have 2 houses , - -one here and one here but if it jeopardizes my selling this 30 ft . off of here G . Totman : We know for sure that the Town has agreed on this . H . Fink : Do you have any kin& of records that they did this for you ? - 3 - K . Pierce : I had a building permit . H . Fink : We ' re looking out for your protection . K . Piece : I have the permit , Harvey , bought and paid for . H . Fink : It ' s no skin off our teeth , - - I ' m thinking of you . R . Gleason : I checked with Ben Bucko and if it ' s a right of way it doesn ' t count so I might as well own it as Keith . H . Fink : Any further questions ? If not will let Keith go . Before you go , - - while everybody ' s here will set a tentative date for a public hearing and Roger will get me that other stuff . Some discussion was held about changing the Planning Board meeting nights but it was decided to continue holding them on Thursday nights . H . Fink : Let ' s set the public hearings for Thursday night , February 12th . Roger Gleason ' s for 8 : 30 P . M . and Keith Pierce ' s for 8 P .M . H . Fink : Has anybody done their homework , - -does anybody have a proposal re . mobile homes , - - let ' s take them one at a time , - -Joe , we ' ll start with you . J . Laiacona : I suggest the Town of Groton be divided into 2 zones , - - one for the placement of mobile homes as per the regulations and the other zone have no placement of mobile homes allowed . H . Fink : Have you mapped out any general areas ? J . Laiacona : I didn ' t have a map but have definite thoughts on it . G . Totman : Where do you propose allowing mobile homes ? H . Fink : How about you , Don ? D . Payne : I think this was one of the things we discussed at our last meeting - -wlfat-s:Jde talked about and I think it ' s a good one , - - the only thing - - if this is what the Board decides we have to figure out what areas would be involved . H . Fink : O .K . , - -how about Fred ? F . Wilson : I spent very , very little time on this . Disregarding the legality I had a thought that maybe we could allow x number of homes per year and that they be allowed in A zones and parks only . H . Fink : O . K . Fred , what you are basically saying is the idea that George has - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - F . Wilson : One other thing , I thought , - - one of the factors I would base decision on would be the petition of adjoining owners for a distance of one mile in each direction on the road . R . Gleason : I think that would be excessive because almost a mile in either direction would almost rule out the whole Town . - 4 - F . Wilson : That ' s my idea . D . Payne : In other words , you would have parks available but mobile homes only so many per year ? F . Wilson : That ' s right . H . Fink : O . K . , - -George made a proposal , - - if he would read it aloud and Josephine could write it down , - - is that alright with you , George ? Because he does have some support for his plan . G . Totman : Do I ? 0 . K . H . Fink : I think George ' s plan is the basis - - G . Totman : We didn ' t finish with Joe ' s . H . Fink : I purposely skipped Joe to have you present yours first . F . Wilson : I think George ought to present his plan , Harvey , - - it sounds like George is presenting Harvey ' s plan . H . Fink : I had nothing to do with it . D . Payne : O .K . , - - let ' s hear it . G . Totman : Alright , - -my idea , - -being liberal in my thoughts , - - I ' m allowing more than I think we should allow by taking into consideration the number of mobile homes in our Town now and the sentiment expressed at the meetings we have got to allow a limited amount of mobile homes . I ' m taking the agricultural zone , which is the A zone , and dividing that up into three sections . A . 1 will be that part of the Town that borders the Peruville-Lansing Road and it will start along the Lansing Town line to Sovocool Hill Road , down Sovocool Hill Road to 500 ft . beyond Sincerbeaux Road and up that road into Peruville and on to 38 and that will be the A . 1 zone . A . 1 I propose to leave as our present ordinance calls for indiscriminate placement of mobile homes per our present ordinance . A . 2 would be that part of the Town of Groton that is left on that side of the Village ( the West side of 38 going north) which would include the West Groton area and all points that way . You leave this the same as our present ordinance except no mobile type dwelling units will be allowed without a special permit granted after a public hearing on the same and then the approval by the proper Board . Now the reason behind this would be in A . 1 same as now and A . 2 you ' re restricting them to a certain extent and giving people who live in the area a little more say on what is going on around them . I ' m calling the other part that would be on the East side of 38 , all of that part of the agricultural zone would be called A . 3 and would allow no mobile homes , - -also no placement of individual mobile homes in low and medium intensity zones . That ' s my proposal . H . Fink : O .K . , - - thank you George . I asked George to present this the way he did because he has presented it to the Board . before and Roger wasn ' t here and since he ' s here tonight it ' s specifically for his benefit . Now I ' d like to go back to Joe . J . Laiacona : I ' d designate first of all the low intensity zones , - -no mobile homes be allowed . I would pick 3 areas that would be my A areas . They - 5 - " J . Laiacona : would be , - - the first one that part of Groton that has Peruville , South Lansing Road as its border from the town line to Peruville . North on Smith Road and then West on Pleasant Valley Road extending 500 ft . north of those roads . O .K . , - - the second section would be 500 ft . south of the West Groton Road to Devlin Road , north to Cayuga County line and then West again to the town line and south to the West Groton line . That would be A . 2 . G . Totman : How about the land in the middle ? J . Laiacona : There would be no mobile homes that would be my B section . F . Wilson : What about Devlin Road up the middle of it? J . Laiacona : That ' s what I thought . I ' ve never been on Devlin Road so don ' t know what it ' s like there . Then A . 3 section which I would propose would be south of Route 222 from Salt road to Lafayette Road , south to Stevens Road , west again to Old Salt Road and then north back up . The last time we had a meeting we talked about the desirability of this area and I ' m quite willing to say that this chunk of land could be moved north or south , east or west , but because of its access to proposed Route 13 and to Cortland , this is going to be a higher developed area and I believe that people that have mobile homes should be able to live in some of the more accessible areas as well as in West Groton . So that all these A . 1 , A . 2 and A . 3 would be placement of mobile homes as per present regulations and the rest of the town there would be no more mobile homes . Then the parks would be allowed after the approval of the Planning Board , Public Hearings and the Town Board in whatever areas that would seem to be best to be developed . H . Fink : The A . 3 Section , I live in the middle of it and it ' s predominantly farm land and owned by a handful of people . There aren ' t too many mobile homes in that area . Now if you moved it over on the Lafayette Road to the east towards West Cortland it ' s loaded with mobile homes . J . Laiacona : I ' ve been through that a couple of times , m - alright so I don ' t know exactly where the placement of the mobile homes fall . But my suggestion is that to allow placement of mobile homes only on the west side of the town really makes it quite difficult for a large part of the population . H . Fink : O . K . We have heard 3 proposals and I think they are all with merit . At least 3 people have proposed some ideas . Do we have any other suggestions to add to them? These aren ' t definite but the second step on the ladder , - -we have to go some route now . Do we have any other suggestions ? F . Wilson : It seems to me as though it would be very difficult to look far enough into the future to say that we wouldn ' t mind seeing this particular area saturated with mobile homes because we know that ' s 6 - F . Wilson : what will happen . I don ' t think there ' s much doubt about it . I think it ' s very difficult for us to say , as laymen , - -now we have actually picked a target and there ' s no doubt that ' s where they are going to go . G . Totman : The only difference between Joe ' s and my proposals , - - I picked out an area in the east part of town where he is allowing mobile homes but in the area he picked out there are almost none there now . There ' s another part if we moved that section east or north a little bit there ' s already a large development of mobile homes . J . Laiacona : I ' m quite willing to admit to that and to amend the proposal . G . Totman : Move it down to Holl and Davis Road and across 222 and around that bend and allow them in there . Some discussion was held on this by all present . J . Laiacona : One of the things that we talked about at the last meeting that got me thinking was someone made the comment that because of the develop - ment all this area was prime development area and it almost seems to me that we can almost pick what is going to be prime development area by the way we plan for it . H . Fink : There ' s more of a natural growth on the north and south sides especially because of the access routes and accessibility to bigger cities . J . Laiacona : The point I ' m making is it really works more towards your planning than anything else and I ' m thinking about the kind of growth that Dryden has experienced in the Ellis Hollow Road area which is nowheres near their main routes or centers and which is their prime housing district now because of what they planned . R . Gleason : That actually wasn ' t planned . Ellis Hollow people were buying lots there before World War II because Dryden hasn ' t had zoning that long . G . Totman : No , but because of what they have done since that it has been their fastest growing area taxwise with larger , more expensive homes , - $ 50 , 000 - $ 75 , 000 homes with one child where other areas have $ 10 , 000 trailers with 3 - 4 kids . R . Gleason : It was zoned out by price . F . Wilson : What was the restriction on A . 2 in yours ? G . Totman : The same as our present ordinance except no mobile home type dwelling is allowed without a special permit granted after a public hearing on same and the approval by the proper board . My reasoning behind that is giving the people that live in the area a limited control to let the Town Board know what their feelings are . D . Payne : But Virgil is already going through that and are having a bad experience . G . Totman : They are passing everything over there . D . Payne : Wouldn ' t we be the same ? G . Totman : I don ' t think so . 7 - G . Totman : You are doing 2 things - - what I ' m trying to do - - putting some control in but yet saying to people , who already live there , we are taking your investments into consideration and are giving you the opportunity to say how you feel about it . H . Fink : Don , I ' d like to hear from you . D . Payne : I kind of like Joe ' s and Georges . I would like to say that maybe instead of just the approval of the proper Board should have the approval of landowners on both sides . G . Totman : They ' d strike that out but I ' d like to put that in there . D . Payne : I do think it would be good to have the approval of the adjacent neighbors on both sides . I think Joe ' s and George ' s , - -both are good . F . Wilson : For this situation , Don , - -you mentioned , - - a guy could propose to put a trailer in here and a guy here that owns 1 acrey - - and this guy 50 acres , - -and this one wouldn ' t have anything to say about it . G . Totman : You also have to think about the guy across the road . R . Gleason : I think a mile is too much . While I can see letting the neighbors have their say nevertheless I don ' t think one neighbor should have the right if the others are willing . D . Payne : I think he should have the right to say so if he has a $ 50 , 000 home . J . Laiacona : I agree with Roger that the power of your next door neighbor to have a veto over your land could be used in a lot of different ways . H . Fink : It ' s a problem . Some discussion was held on this by all present . G . Totman : I think we need to take one thing at a time and all agree on the areas on the map and then take one area at a time . R . Gleason : I ' m glad we did because I was completely misinterpreting what Fred was saying . G . Totman : I think we should take all these ideas back with us and at the next meeting decide on boundary lines and then take each area at a time and work on that instead of working on all of them . H . Fink : Let ' s say we come up with this proposal , - -A . 1 , A . 2 . A . 3 and name the boundaries and include what we expect in them before we go to Tom Neiderkorn to write this up , - -we talked about presenting it to the Town Board as a finished product and let them take it and decide on it . Do we spend the money for a professional planner if we are going in a direction the Town Board doesn ' t want us to go ? This is a question I asked myself . Do we go through hiring someone , - - J . Laiacona : I think we have an advantage in hiring someone whatever the number of dollars per hour and having him help us present the plan to the Town Board . - 8 - G . Totman : What I see wrong with what you ' re saying is we can get everything the way we want to and then go to the Town Board and listen to them and then we have to start all over again . We make this out , give it to them and then it ' s up to them . Once we get our plan we can have them come to the meeting when we present it to Tom Niederkorn , F . Wilson : Do you have any idea how many homes might go into Section A . 2 in say a year ? - -Even a wild guess ? G . Totman : A . 2 you mean mobile homes ? I don ' t know . H . Fink : Do we bring the finished product in ? I disagree with that . J . Laiacona : I agree with George , we should present it to the Town Board as a finished product . F . Wilson : Yes I agree to that , t00%. D . Payne : So do I . R . Gleason : I agree with Harvey . Some discussion was held on this by all present . H . Fink : Anything else? I think after the public hearings on the 12th we ' ll get back into this again . Any other business ? Do I hear a motion to adjourn ? F . Wilson : I would like to see other proposals , - - Joe ' s and George ' s sound good but would like to hear some more . R . Gleason : When do we go to New York City? H . Fink : Are you going? R . Gleason : I plan to . J . Laiacona : The week- end of February 15th . Don Payne made a motion that the meeting be adjourned which was seconded by Joe Laiacona . Motion carried . The meeting adjourned at 10 P . M . Respectfully submitted , �Jo ephine Bell - 9 -