HomeMy WebLinkAbout1-11-2000 (B)
TOWN BOARD MEETING
TUESDAY, JANUARY 11, 2000, AT 7:30 PM
Those present: Glenn E. Morey, Supervisor
Ellard L. Sovocool, Councilman
Donald F. Scheffler, Councilman
Sheldon C. Clark, Councilman
Duane T. Randall, II, Councilman
Also present: Liz Brennan, Rick Case, George Totman, Rick Neville, Jean Morey
Supervisor Morey
– The Board should have the agenda in front of you. Are there any changes?
I have one. Steve Whicher is not going to be here tonight. He will be coming in February. We
Employee’s Association
do have Rick Neville here who is the president of the to speak to us.
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Can I have a motion to approve the minutes of December 14?
MOVED
by Councilman Randall, seconded by Councilman Scheffler, to approve the minutes of
the December 14, 1999 meeting as presented.
Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey.
General Fund
Claim Nos. 340 - 354 of the in the amount of $6,615.14 for the year 1999, Claim
General Fund
Nos. 1 – 8 of the in the amount of $1,397.72 for the year 2000, Claim Nos. 235 –
Highway Fund
255 of the in the amount of $20,925.90, for the year 1999 and Claim Nos. 1 - 2
Highway Fund
of the in the amount of $271.92 for the year 2000 were presented to the Town
Board for audit.
MOVED
by Councilman Sovocool, seconded by Councilman Scheffler, to approve the General
and Highway bills for payment.
Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey.
Special Grant (HUD) Fund
Claim Nos. 172 – 174 of the in the amount of $16,025.34 for the
Special Grand (HUD) Fund
year 1999 and Claim Nos. 175 – 176 of the in the amount of
$10,519.17 for the year 2000 where presented for audit.
MOVED
by Councilman Scheffler, seconded by Councilman Randall to approve the HUD bills
for payment.
Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey.
Town Board Meeting Page 2 of 17 January 11, 2000
Supervisor Morey invited Rick Neville to take the floor.
Rick Neville
– Welcome to the new Board Members, the old Board Members, Colleen, you all
know me. I’m the president of our association which is the employee body out in the shop.
What I’m here for is to just basically welcome the new Board Members and go over just a few
things of what we are all about. Like I say, we negotiate once a year. That’s basically our only
contact with the Board. We work through Rick (Case) if there’s any problems that come up.
The association’s been in existence roughly 30-plus years. We don’t have an exact date. We’re
fairly proud of it. As I explained before, it’s a bargaining agent. We come in to negotiate once a
year to generally the whole Board. Teresa usually lets us know a month or so in advance. That’s
been the standard in the past. It’s usually in September. That’s subject to change. That’s up to
you. Basically, get hold of me, and I chat with the guys and however they want to do it.
Basically it’s a negotiating body, plain and simple. There’s no…when you come in and hash
back and forth. Don and Louie both know we do take some time on it; we are serious about it.
We like to be treated as such, that we are serious. We listen to your ideas as a Board. We take
them back. It generally doesn’t take too long. We don’t go on for weeks and weeks. We like
getting it done and over with, as I’m sure you people would. Like I say, we work through Rick.
If there’s any problems we don’t all jump in here, so don’t expect that. It’s never happened in
the past. We go directly to Rick with any problem we go through. I don’t think any of them out
there are afraid to go to him. That’s basically all I have to say. I appreciate your time. If there’s
any questions, Colleen, I’m sure you’ve got contract copies if anybody wants one. The door is
open; hopefully it works both ways.
Supervisor Morey
– Rick, we do appreciate all the hard work you guys do, too.
Liz Brennan, Bookkeeper
– I don’t have my usual report this month because we’re in the
process of closing the books for the end of the year. I’ll be starting the annual report probably by
st
next month. It will be filed electronically, and that’s due by March 1. We’ve opened a jumbo
savings, money market. We’re combining all of the funds into that and also going to use a
combined checking account. The jumbo savings will give us a little higher interest than what we
were making. But everything is still kept separate in the books, so you’ll still get the reports, and
you’ll be able to see what the Highway versus the General is doing. W-2s have all been done
and you should have all received them by now. As far as the account, we are going to be
encumbering funds from ’99 into the year 2000, in the Highway Town Wide for the Bridge
Account, DA5120.4, for $6,100. That’s the bridge project that was wasn’t done; the County
didn’t have the pipes and everything ready, so we really have to move that money over so we’ll
have enough money in next year’s budget to do the projects. There will probably be some more
final transfers, but I’ll have that next month, because we still have these bills that are still ’99
bills. That’s about it. Tyke, I do need to find out if you’re interested in the retirement.
Town Board Meeting Page 3 of 17 January 11, 2000
Councilman Randall
– I better read it over. After reading it, I’ll tell you, I guess.
Liz Brennan
– Okay, we can do it by next payroll, so you can take your time with it. If you
need more information we might have a booklet on Tier-4 to give you some general information
on the retirement.
Supervisor Morey
– Basically, it’s just a yes or no answer.
Mark D. Gunn, Code Enforcement Officer
– 1999 Annual Report was presented to the Board
for their review.
Richard C. Case, Jr., Highway Superintendent
– I have very little to report. The Highway
Department is, as you know, dedicated to snow removal, and we haven’t had a lot of snow, and
I’m not going to beg for it. We are doing a lot of maintenance projects both in the shop and on
the building itself. Other than that, unless you’ve got some questions for me, it’s business as
usual in there. One question I’ve got, and I talked to Glenn on that is that heating problem that
we’ve got with the boiler. We’ve got a couple of pumps there that I just need to know if you
want to go ahead and fix. It was broken down into several phases. To replace the three B & G
circulating pumps with the circulating pumps which are the wet-rotor type that lubricate
themselves and have no maintenance was $1,052, and to replace the existing undersized water
compression tank with a new floor mounted diaphragm type was $675 on that. So, I just wanted
some idea if you want to go ahead and get these people and get this done, or how you want to
approach it.
Supervisor Morey
– Yeah, the boiler system controls that part of the shop as well as Colleen’s
area. It appears that there’s a bearing going. It’s been an ongoing problem. Supposedly it was
going to be taken care of last year and never was. Colleen’s been cold, haven’t you?
Clerk Pierson
– Well we didn’t have outside wall heat for quite awhile due to those things being
down. I would think it would be pretty important with winter coming on. It should be fixed so
that we can have heat.
Supervisor Morey
– This is in the budget, right?
Clerk Pierson
– It would be in the Building Fund under repairs. We have money in there all the
time for repairs. You could do part of it. Those pumps are apparently the most important part
right now. Later on you could look into doing the others.
Richard Case
– Yes, there’s four phases that they put together. The boiler airlocks itself. The
expansion tank, when they added on to the system, they didn’t do everything. They just kind of
put it together and made it functional. This expansion tank will allow it to airlock again, and
that’s why I’m suggesting you go that far. These pumps, Glenn seemed more familiar with them
Town Board Meeting Page 4 of 17 January 11, 2000
than I am, I know we put in about one a year. They’re the old type pump. We’ve got various
parts that we’ve scavenged and put together of which two of these pumps would still be able to
be used in a backup situation. These new pumps, from what I’ve been told…Glenn do you have
information…we’ve never replaced the one that we’ve got. We have one pump in the system
that’s this type of pump, and we’ve never touched it, to my knowledge, since it’s been put in.
Supervisor Morey
– Do we need a roll call for this?
Clerk Pierson
– Yeah, you have to authorize them to go ahead and do it. How is it listed on
there?
Richard Case
– Item 1 and 2.
Supervisor Morey
– And how much is the total?
Some one answers: $1,725.
Supervisor Morey
– How many bids did you get?
Richard Case
– This was the only one?
Supervisor Morey
– Did you try for other people?
Richard Case
– We were looking for people when the system went down, we made calls….
Supervisor Morey
– So you had bids on other ones.
Clerk Pierson
– There wasn’t anyone available that knew that system out there anyway. It’s
been cobbed up from the old one to the new.
Richard Case
– You were familiar with the contractor, and Louie said they went out of business.
Finding someone to come in and look at this and take care of the problem, there was I think three
people called: Dennis Toolan, Auchinachie who does our climate control…they didn’t have
expertise to take care of the boiler. So, this was the third choice and these people came out and
took care of the problem for the time being. So there were three firms contacted.
Town Board Meeting Page 5 of 17 January 11, 2000
RESOLUTION #6 – AUTHORIZE REPAIR TO HEATING SYSTEM
MOVED
by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Randall.
Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey
RESOLVED
, that the Town Board does hereby authorize that repair of the Town Hall heating
system be commenced as specified in the proposal submitted by Climate Control Technologies,
Inc. Said repairs to be Items 1 and 2 of proposal:
Item 1: Replace existing three B&G circulator pumps with new Grundfos circulator
pumps. Cost: $1,052.00
Item 2: Replace existing undersized hot water compression tank with new floor mounted
diaphragm type expansion tank of the correct capacity. Cost: $675.00.
Total cost : $1727.00
Supervisor Morey
– Rick, I am also going to have, Sheldon is the equipment member, I am
going to have him talk to you a little bit about new equipment that you have, what you need,
what you want, the time frame, how much money guesstimate. Is that okay? And come back
and present it to the Board so we get an idea of where we’re going to be in the next year or two
years and what we need, so we can get you guys the equipment you need. Also, I’d like to ask
Tyke and Don to get together with Rick, because you’re on the building committee and not only
this, but go through the whole system and see what we need, and try to get some financial things
that we can have so we can have some planning and stuff like that. The smoke alarm and stuff
like that have got to be improved, and I know you’ve worked on two or three phases of that too.
That is in the budget too, the alarm system. I talked to you (Colleen) about the security button
under your desk, and so on.
Richard Case
– Sheldon and I have already talked. We haven’t had a chance to go through it,
but we’ll make time. Whenever you guys want to do that, either together or separately, the door
is always open here. I agree and encourage everybody to do that.
Supervisor Morey
– That goes both ways too. Colleen, do you have anything?
Colleen D. Pierson, Town Clerk/Tax Collector
– No, you have my report and that’s it.
Councilman Scheffler
– Are the computers up and running yet?
Clerk Pierson
– Yes, all five of them. We are mid-way through January on our taxes. They
seem to be coming in a little slow, but they will pick up any day.
Town Board Meeting Page 6 of 17 January 11, 2000
Supervisor Morey
– Actually, January is a very busy time of year for Liz and Colleen and April
and Laura. And you have been keeping your spirits up high too, believe me, it’s great.
Clerk Pierson
– Thanks.
Supervisor MoreyProcurement Policy
– We also have to review the for the Town of Groton.
We have to do this once a year. Everybody’s got copies of it. Fran, I’m going to have to ask you
for the language we should use.
Attorney Casullo
– I think that if you look at the Procurement Policy, you’re okay with it. I
guess there was one possible addition: allowing Rick to be able to purchase small items, things
that he needs at $1000 or less. That really isn’t clearly spelled out in the policy right now. I
think all you would need to do, Colleen, maybe on the master policy, if you just….that the Board
resolved to accept the Procurement Policy as written with the addition that the Highway
Superintendent be allowed to purchase smaller items that do not exceed a total of $1,000. And
you can write that addition in, Colleen, to your master Procurement Policy and that should
suffice with that addition. If you want to write that resolution like that it should be all you need.
Supervisor Morey
– Rick, will that work?
Richard Case
– I’d like to see that figure raised. Today, $1,000 as far as tools and stuff that we
may need, $1,000 isn’t going……..heavy equipment or something like that, it isn’t sufficient.….
…………………(not using microphone)…………..$2,000 or $2,500.
Councilman Sovocool
– I agree with Rick after finding out some of the prices of these tools. It
probably should go up.
Councilman Scheffler
– Yeah, I think $1,000 isn’t enough. $1,000 won’t buy a jack. Probably
$2,000 is reasonable on this. I would be okay with $2,000 or $2,500.
Councilman Randall
– I agree. I’ve seen the cost of things and $1,000 isn’t much these days.
Councilman Clark
– I agree.
Supervisor Morey
– So, $2,000? I’m asking Rick, $2,000?
Richard Case
– I’d take the $2,500 and then I wouldn’t have to come back next year. Other
towns go to $5,000. This has always been a little on the shy side. I’m comfortable with getting
through with $2,500, but if the situation comes to where you were going to need up to $5,000,
you guys won’t……. A core cost for some of these items exceed $3,000. Those days of $500 or
$1,000 are long past. That’s where I’m coming from on that.
Councilman Sovocool
– So, where you coming from, $2,500 or $5,000?
Richard Case
– What you feel comfortable with. Louie, like I’ve always said: I didn’t this year;
I’ll do the job the best I can with what you give me and that’s one of the figures, but I don’t
Town Board Meeting Page 7 of 17 January 11, 2000
make that decision…….. But this just brings it up into the time era that we’re in. I think it
should be $5,000, personally.
Supervisor Morey
- $5,000 is a bit too much, but……
Councilman Sovocool
– I’d go with $2,500.
Councilman Scheffler
– $2,500 is all right. If it doesn’t work, just let us know.
Richard Case
– Well, I’ve never had a problem. That’s why I say, you guys have more than
supported me. It’s just that we need to move this procurement system into the new age.
Councilman Randall
– Where does that money come from? Is it already in the budget, and how
many times. I mean, is there a ceiling to that? In other words, how many times can you use
$2,500 in a year’s time? I don’t understand that, I guess.
Supervisor Morey
– What’s the small tool budget, do you know Rick, of hand?
Richard Case
– We have equipment budget…..several thousand dollars in it. So, instead of me
coming to you and saying I need a jack to take out of that, when I need a jack, I can go ahead
and buy it. I can’t spit out the figures in the equipment budget but……..
Councilman Randall
– But there’s a budget? Okay, there’s a top amount budgeted for that.
Richard Case
– I’m very aware of those figures. I know what’s in the budget. I’ve stayed
within the budget and have return fund balances to help feed the system. I mean, it isn’t
something that you should be concerned that I would overdraw, if that’s where you’re coming
from.
Councilman Randall
– No, it wasn’t.
Richard Case
– Some time Liz would be the lady to sit down and explain that budget to you
better than I, the different accounts that I operate within. But there is a specific account for just
small tools.
Councilman Clark
– I’d go with the $2,500 at least.
Supervisor Morey
– All right, back to Fran. Now, with the resolution and the added paragraph,
that will equal……
Attorney Casullo
– All you normally have to do is every year look at your Procurement Policy.
If you want to make changes to the one you have, you can, and you are making this one change.
And all I am saying that to make it easier for Colleen, she can just pen that in, that it’s approved
that the Highway Superintendent can spend $2,500 ……..
Supervisor Morey
– So, it’s not contradicting itself?
Town Board Meeting Page 8 of 17 January 11, 2000
Attorney Casullo
– No. In a sense it is. But the whole idea of a Procurement Policy is how you
guys want to handle how you buy things. As long as you’re comfortable with it, it’s okay.
Supervisor Morey
– So, all other purchases from $250, $299, has to got to get approval of the
Board? Okay.
RESOLUTION #7 - APPROVE PROCUREMENT POLICY WITH
AMENDMENT FOR HIGHWAY SMALL TOOL EXPENDITURES
MOVED
by Councilman Scheffler, seconded by Councilman Randall
Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey.
RESOLVED
, that the Town Board does hereby approve the Procurement Policy as presently in
effect with the addition that the Highway Superintendent shall be allowed to make purchases of
small tools up to $2,500.00 without requesting Town Board Approval.
Colleen D. Pierson, Town Clerk/Tax Collector
– Presented her monthly and annual Town
Clerk’s report for the Board’s review.
Supervisor Morey
– At the Youth Commission last Wednesday night, I was pleasantly surprised
that we had a volunteer for the Groton Youth Commission and it happens to be Joanne Senecal.
MOVED
by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool that the Town Board does
hereby appoint Joanne Senecal to sit on the Groton Youth Commission as the Town
representative.
Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey.
Supervisor Morey
– Loren Bishop called from the Ithaca Journal and would like to sit down
with the Groton Central School, the Village, the Town and themselves and talk a little bit about
the coverage that the Ithaca Journal is going to have. There’s four dates available. I was just
wondering if we could all get together in one location; it doesn’t matter where, and just sit down
and talk to them about the different coverages. Any better dates?
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Clerk Pierson
– The Town Board Meeting is on the 8.
Town Board Meeting Page 9 of 17 January 11, 2000
Loren Bishop
– It would probably be from 4-7, somewhere in the High School, probably the
auditorium or cafeteria. You don’t have to be there for the whole time. Some time would be for
the Town and Village officials; some time would be for the school.
Supervisor Morey
– The only trouble is that it takes three hours to prepare for this meeting, on
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the day of the meeting (on the 8).
Councilman Scheffler
– Is this like the meeting you had last summer.
Loren Bishop
– Yeah, it’s the same idea, only it would just be with Groton. It would probably
be me and a couple of others…..if you have questions or concerns. I have to check with
everyone else to see what days are going to be bad. As soon as we figure something out we’ll
send out a letter or something.
thth
Supervisor Morey
– How about the 15 or 16?
The Board agreed that these dates would be good.
Councilman Scheffler
– I thought it was a good meeting when you had it before.
Supervisor Morey
– Yes, it’s a very good give and take. They learn a little bit about us, and we
learn a little bit about them. Okay, thank you.
We have to approve the Fire and Ambulance Contract with the Fire Department.
RESOLUTION #8 - AUTHORIZE PAYMENT OF 2000 AMBULANCE
CONTRACT AND GROTON FIRE PROTECTION DISTRICT CONTRACT
MOVED
by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Scheffler.
Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey.
RESOLVED
, that the Town Board does hereby authorize the payment of the 2000 Ambulance
Contract in the amount of $60,000 and the 2000 Groton Fire Protection District Contract in the
amount of $66,000.
Town Board Meeting Page 10 of 17 January 11, 2000
RESOLUTION #9 - CREATE THREE ADDITIONAL MOTOR
EQUIPMENT OPERATOR POSITIONS
MOVED
by Councilman Ellard Sovocool, seconded by Councilman Donald Scheffler
Ayes - Councilmen Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark and Supervisor Morey
RESOLVED
, that the Town Board of the Town of Groton does hereby desire to create three
additional Motor Equipment Operator positions in the Highway Department.
Supervisor Morey
– We have to set a hearing date to amend the Land Use and Development Code
for the height of the outbuildings. Colleen, can we do it at the next meeting.
Clerk Pierson
– Set the hearing date? I guess you could, but I believe the ZBA and …they would
like to see it done as soon as possible. It takes awhile to do it because you have to schedule a
hearing and then after the hearing, you vote yes, or no, or whatever. It takes longer because we
have the weekly paper.
Supervisor Morey
– When’s the earliest date, and can the Board make it?
Clerk Pierson
– For zoning its 10 days….
Attorney Casullo
– Well if you’re going to amend it as you’ve done before, you do it by local law.
What you would have to do is your Code says that it has to be ten days to publish before you could
even hold a public hearing. The local law indicating the proposed amendment is supposed to be on
your desks seven days before. So, the earliest that I think you could time this thing is you would
probably want, I don’t know what the proposed amendment is, but you’d probably want the
proposed amendment in local law form on your February……
Clerk Pierson
– On our desk seven days before our February meeting.
Attorney Casullo
– Correct. And then, I think you could possibly hold your public hearing,
depending on how you published it, you could possibly do it on your February…..I think the safer
way, Glenn, to be honest with you, is that you have your local law in front of you on your February
thth
8 meeting, pass a resolution that you want to adopt this local law at your February 8 meeting,
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and then set your public hearing on February 8 where you’ll either have a special meeting or you
will deal with it in March. I think that to do it any other way could get you into some problems,
because at this point, you haven’t even resolved yet, unless I’ve mistaken you, as to what your
proposed amendment is. I think that’s the safer way to go. I know you want to get it done as fast
as possible, but I think the safest way to make sure it’s going to be effective and enforceable is to
do it the way I just outlined.
Supervisor Morey
– Tyke, you had a concern?
Town Board Meeting Page 11 of 17 January 11, 2000
Councilman Randall
– I agree with Colleen, that we need to get it done as expediently as we can.
Supervisor Morey
– The proposal that the Planning Board put before the Town Board?
Councilman Randall
– I think it needs to be discussed. I personally didn’t like how it was written
up, but I don’t think this whole Board has even discussed it as a Board. What has been brought
forward, was brought forward to the old Board, so…….
Clerk Pierson
– That’s true. I don’t think this Board has really discussed it at all.
Supervisor Morey
– Do we do that in the public hearing, Fran?
Attorney Casullo
– What will happen is, what you should do, is you should discuss amongst
yourselves. I’m assuming that you have now input from the Planning Board and the ZBA about
any proposed changes. What should happen is that you should discuss how those Boards feel the
amendment should be. You should discuss among yourself and you can take the wording form
either the ZBA or the Planning Board, but you should discuss amongst yourself: yes, this is how
we feel; there should be a proposed change in the Groton Land Use Code. Then, at that point you
should instruct me to say you want to pass a resolution that this is what we want to do to amend the
Code; this is how we want to amend the Code. Then at the next Board Meeting, I will have a
proposed local law that you can have on your desk and you can look at it, and at the February
meeting you can set the public hearing. Then you can at the March meeting, hold your public
hearing. You will have plenty of time to notice it. Then you’re all set. Because of the local law
process, it’s normally a two meeting process.
Supervisor Morey
– So the earliest one we could do is the March meeting.
Attorney Casullo
– Unless you want to hold a special meeting. I think the furthest you could go
tonight because you don’t have the local law even ready yet, would be to just give me some idea as
to what you’d would want the local law to read, and then I would have to put it before your desk. I
am a little concerned, Colleen, that if you put it on their desk seven days before the February
meeting, and someone has a question or a comment or is opposed to it and we have already set the
public hearing up, then we have a problem. And that’s happened before.
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Supervisor Morey
– Does the discussion come before the February 8 meeting or during the
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February 8 meeting?
Attorney Casullo
– You can do it tonight and you would also be able to do it during the February
meeting because you’d have the local law there. If you wanted to change it, you change it. I just
simply do it again because you already have it on your desk well before the March meeting and
well before you line up the March public hearing. You could do it tonight and you could do it in
February. It would cover you both times.
Supervisor Morey
– Let’s have discussion. Louie, you do have Lyle’s letter from the ZBA, don’t
you? It should have been in your packet.
Town Board Meeting Page 12 of 17 January 11, 2000
Councilman Sovocool
– Yes.
Councilman Randall
– Coming from being a contractor for twenty years, I lean towards setting a
sidewall height rather than an overall height. If you set it 12 foot everybody .. 10 or 12 foot, and if
they want something above and beyond that, then they go before the Zoning Board of Appeals. I
think it simplifies the whole process for contractor, homeowner and this Board to do that. I guess I
am against setting an overall height. It doesn’t make common sense to me. I understand where it
came from, but it’s an accessory structure. I just feel that if you set a sidewall height, it
leaves….most people are going to build the garage or accessory structure trying to match the roof
line of what’s there. If it’s a Cape Cod style house, then they will go with a roofline like that,
usually. Most people are not going to want something that is monstrous and unsightly next to their
main residence. I think that you ought to leave a little bit of that judgment call to them.
Supervisor Morey
– What’s the standard height per floor in a construction building? Is it ten
feet?
Councilman Randall
– You figure ten feet per story.
Supervisor Morey
– So, 35 feet is three and one half stories?
Councilman Randall
– Yes. That’s a long ways up there.
Supervisor Morey
– Sheldon, you say then on the Planning Board, I know you had a big
discussion on it, and George (Totman) is here too, so……
Councilman Clark
– George, why don’t you spell out just how we came with what we did, or
don’t you want to?
George L. Totman, Planning Board Chairman
– Well, we looked at other ordinances, number
one, you know, what has been the practice in other towns in other areas. Very honestly, I’ve never
heard of the sidewall thing that Tyke is talking about. But there’s nothing wrong with it,
everybody has their own ideas. What we looked at, number one was that…….
Tape recorder was inadvertently shut off at this point. When it was noticed and turned back on
Attorney Casullo was speaking:
Attorney Casullo
– The last couple of comments that were made were good, about maybe we
should have different heights in different districts. And maybe we can send it back to the Planning
Board and ask that they consider changing the heights if they want to in the different districts to
accommodate the concern about what George was saying about commercial and industrial, so you
don’t have a situation where your height requirement is limiting what you are really allowing in
that particular district. It would cause a whole other problem if we just use that uniform height
requirement, although I don’t think it would in that case. But anything less than the 35 foot could
cause that kind of problem, which would frustrate the whole idea of amending it again.
Town Board Meeting Page 13 of 17 January 11, 2000
Supervisor Morey
– Time to make a decision.
Councilman Sovocool
– Well, if you go with the 10-foot wall, that ought to cure a lot of your
problems, wouldn’t it? If they put a peaked roof on, you’re going to be another 5 foot, for 15
(overall)?
Councilman Scheffler
– But you can’t get a door on it.
Councilman Sovocool
– What do you mean, an overhead?
Councilman Scheffler
– Exactly. If you go to a 10-foot wall, you have a truss going across, and
your door is 10 feet. Or if you go in from the side, you have a little roof over-hang, so you’re
down actually 9-½ usable height.
Councilman Sovocool
– I don’t know.
Supervisor Morey
– Okay, we’ve got three options: the peak height, the wall height, land use or
per land use. If you go with the peak, I’m going to ask for a resolution for next time for a public
hearing and we’ll approve the code change that the Planning Board recommended. If you want to
go with the way Tyke wants it, which is the wall height. Or we could talk about, which is a little
bit about what George talked about, different heights for different land uses.
Councilman Scheffler
– I think that if we did different heights for different areas, it would
eliminate a lot of ZBA hearings. I’m just thinking out loud too, but along 222, it’s in the Village,
there’s the fish farm and if he wants to put a truck in, he’s got to go over 10 feet. There’s an
example right there. It’s the Village, but I’m just using it as an example, where there’s industry in
an industrial zone. Then if someone wants to put something up in a residential area, I’m not so
sure that 16, 18, 20-foot sidewalls is a good idea.
Councilman Sovocool
– I’m still not sure.
Supervisor Morey
– Are you for the submittal from the Planning Board?
Councilman Sovocool
– Yeah, I’d go with the Planning Board.
Councilman Randall
– I’m in agreement with Don now. I see the problem and I think we should
deal with the problem in one fell swoop and get this done. I think there needs to be a distinction
between residential and commercial. Like we just said, there could be a difference in height
because of the zone.
Supervisor Morey
– You mean different land uses?
Councilman Randall
– Yes.
Councilman Clark
– I’m going to stay with the Planning Board.
Town Board Meeting Page 14 of 17 January 11, 2000
Supervisor Morey
– How difficult would this be to have per land use, for the Planning Board?
George Totman
– Per land use? If you build a 10-foot high wall, Tyke you’re a builder, what is
the normal pitch, 10-5?
Councilman Randall
– It depends. Most cases are using 4-12. But if you have a higher Cape
Cod, it’s going to be more, obviously.
George Totman
– Well, I was just thinking, is somebody in a residential area, where you’re not
going to allow commercial, if they want to build a garage to put their motor home in, can you do it
with a 10 foot high wall.
Councilman Randall
– No, you can’t with a motor home.
George Totman
– Well, that could cause some problems. I guess I was thinking about that. I
don’t know, I think you would have to think about it. There’s always pros and cons and problems
you might…because you’re going to have to have a public hearing and listen to people who might
come out of the woodwork. I know there are people around who have those types of things and
big truck and wants to just store it on his own land, in his own garage. He can’t build it. He can’t
put his truck in the garage now? Because it’s not a commercial activity, but he’s driving his truck
home and he wants to build a garage to put it into. That’s the things that I was thinking about. I
don’t believe I have an answer to your question.
Councilman Scheffler
– I agree that it shouldn’t be so restrictive that a guy shouldn’t do
something like that, as long as it fits in with his situation and his area. I really don’t know how to
word it either to make it right for everybody.
Councilman Clark
– And that’s what the Planning Board spent many…they didn’t just treat this
lightly. They spent a lot of time going over it, all that stuff, I mean they had a lot of feelings in
there.
Councilman Scheffler
– Let me ask you a question. What happens if you just go with the 35 and
the neighbors don’t like it? Do you just say, too bad? I mean, we could have problems both ways.
Supervisor Morey
– But we’re going to have neighbors complaining about the small garage.
Councilman Scheffler
– There’s always going to be someone who complains.
Councilman Clark
– And like we said, we hadn’t had the problem.
George Totman
– One of the things that….I was talking to Mr. Carey, and his feeling is that
neighbors should have some say about what goes next to their property. Then I said to him, that
you as a farmer, can build a barn, and the neighbors don’t have anything to say about that because
you don’t need a permit for agricultural. If you’re looking at it that way, as long as you can build a
house at 35 feet, and you can build that to within 10 to 12 feet of a neighbor’s property, what’s the
difference if it is an accessory building?
Town Board Meeting Page 15 of 17 January 11, 2000
Supervisor Morey
– Either way, it’s going to cost us money, isn’t it Fran?
Attorney Casullo
- I think, to be honest with you, yes. Do what you want, but either way you’re
going to see a variance going before the Board again. I will agree that either way you go, it’s
going to make it a little more clear than it is now. …….I don’t think it would totally solve the
problem. I think it will certainly make it clearer than it is now, but do I think it will solve all the
variance requests? No.
Supervisor Morey
– More work. So, we have to have a motion……..
Attorney Casullo
– What I think you’d want to do, depending on how you want to do this, I think
you want to pass a resolution on however you want to go authorizing me to begin to draft the local
law and make whatever amendment you want to make. Then I’ll have it on your desk for the
February meeting.
Supervisor Morey
– Okay. Can I have a resolution to accept the Planning Board’s change in the
Code?
RESOLUTION #9 - ACCEPT PLANNING BOARD’S
RECOMMENDATION TO AMEND CODE
MOVED
by Councilman Sovocool, seconded by Councilman Clark.
Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Clark, Morey.
Nays – Randall.
RESOLVED
, that the Town Board does hereby accept the Planning Board’s recommendation to
change the Town of Groton Land Use and Development Code which would remove the present
maximum height of 12 feet for accessory buildings and replace it with a 35 foot height limit for all
buildings within the Town of Groton. And be it further
RESOLVED
, that the Town Board does hereby authorize the Town Attorney, Francis Casullo, to
prepare the local law effecting this change for presentation at the February, 2000 meeting of the
Board.
Supervisor Morey
- I would remind everybody on the Board that there’s a municipal dinner next
Tuesday night. I hope everybody can make it.
In the next couple of months I want to get together and start creating a Conservation Committee. I
want to have this Conservation Committee have agricultural views too. I talked to a couple of
Town Board Meeting Page 16 of 17 January 11, 2000
people and they’re very interested in doing it. And I know I can’t do it unless the Board approves
it. Some of the ideas I want to know are, is the Town Board really serving the agricultural
community? There’s concerns about the Owasco Inlet drainage as well as the Cayuga Lake
drainage. They’re on both sides. Also, what we can do for tax relief for the farmer, just to look at
how much it would benefit the farmer and how much detriment it would be for the Town Board.
So, those are a couple of things I’d like to do in the next couple of months, and I will get back to
you.
There is a letter in there for a loan, in your packet, and we will be getting together with the loan
committee to advance that a little farther.
There is a school letter there. The school board is asking for a donation for the after-prom……
Councilman Scheffler
– That’s not from the school, it’s from the parents. There’s an after-prom
party in Ithaca. It’s going to be at the YMCA and it’s basically a lock-down party where the kids
have to be there all night. It’s drug and alcohol free and they have, what they’ve done in the past,
tickets to win a stereo system, or CDs, or a television, depending on what they get for donations or
money. These are things to keep the kids there all night. I think it’s a good idea, but I don’t know
if you want to donate to something like that or not.
Councilman Sovocool
– We never had donated to that, have we?
Clerk Pierson
– Not to this specifically. We do have an account for publicity, and we do make
donations out of that, like to Groton Old Home Days, things like that that come up. But this, we
never have.
Supervisor Morey
– Okay, then I will personally make a donation on behalf of the Town Board.
Also, everyone has a folder located on April’s desk. We are going to be filling that within the next
couple of weeks, so if you could stop by or call April periodically, just to see if there is some stuff
in there for you, it would save on the mailing.
Next month I would like to invite Bernie Thoma to talk to us about what grants are available and
also talk to us a little bit about the grants that we have existing.
Peg Palmer went to the hospital today for an operation on her arm. If anyone could call and wish
her well, it would be appreciated.
That’s it. Any other questions?
Attorney Casullo
– There’s a few things that I think should go on record. You remember talking
about the Coit property? Could you just give me, I don’t think you need it in the form of a
resolution, but could the Board give me some direction to contact the County Attorney? It’s about
the property that’s in real rough shape here in the Town that should be taken care of. The County
through its DSS has a lien on the property now. I just feel that the County has as much
responsibility as the Town. I talked to Glenn about it and I asked Glenn if it would be okay to
Town Board Meeting Page 17 of 17 January 11, 2000
contact the County Attorney and see if we could work together in solving the problem. I don’t
need a resolution. I’d just like some direction as to whether that’s okay or not.
Supervisor Morey
– If it goes through us, it will be next December before we get it taken care of.
But the way Fran is suggesting, it would be on the expense of the County, where it should be.
They have the lien, and the house has been abandoned, and it should be turned into the Health
Department probably, too.
Attorney Casullo
– I just wanted to let you know and find out if it’s okay.
Consensus of the Board was that it was okay.
Attorney Casullo
– The final item, I just want included in the record; I don’t want to say too much
so that we don’t have to go into executive session, but we should go on record with this. I don’t
know if I’ve sent this to Duane or Sheldon, if not, I’ll get you copies. The decision on the Sirens
matter came back from the Appellate Division. The Town was successful. At this point, the only
recourse left to the Langers at this point is to appeal to the State’s highest court, The Court of
Appeals. I should know whether or not that is going to happen by the end of this month. Certainly
by February’s meeting, I should be able to let you know as to whether they are going to try to take
this up to the State’s highest court. So far you’re two for two. At this point, we’re done; we’re just
waiting to see if they want to file a notice of appeal. Basically, if you have any questions, you can
contact me on that. Do you guys have copies of the decision? I’ll make you a copy of the
decision.
There being no further business, Councilman Sovocool made a motion to adjourn, seconded by
Councilman Scheffler, at 9:45 PM. Unanimous.
Colleen D. Pierson
Town Clerk