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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1975-12-18 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC INFORMATIONAL MEETING HELD AT THE GROTON CITY CHURCH THURSDAY , DECEMBER 18 , 1975 AT 8 PM H . Fink - Chairman G . Hoy - Chairman Groton Board of Appeals* G . Totman - Vice- Chairman* F . Wilson* H . Dow - Town Supervisor* J . Laiacona* Co Twigg* J . Bell - Recording Clerk* R . Gleason* D . Payne Approximately 6 members of the general public* * - Denotes those present . G . Totman : Normally we don ' t know half of the people at meetings and they don ' t know us but I think everybody here knows everybody but Joe Laiacona is here and he is one of our newest members on our Planning Board and he lives in West Groton . For the benefit of the people who haven ' t been at the other meetings , I ' m the vice - chairman . Harvey Fink , our chairman , has been conducting the rest of the meetings but he ' s sick tonight and has been to two hospitals so is unable to be with us this evening . What we are looking for is what the people in the Town of Groton feel , or would like to see in the ordinance concerning mobile homes after the moratorium is lifted . We ' re not really here to discuss the pros and cons of the moratorium . That ' s on . The Planning Board did recommend that it be put on last summer to the Town Board and they adopted it . Mainly it was for time to work on the ordinance . The Town Board had asked the Planning Board to restudy it and give them ideas on how we could have a more uptodate mobile home ordinance and one of the questions you now ask is why did we do it ? All of a sudden in the last couple of years the Town of Groton has been getting a large influx of mobile homes as compared to conventional homes - - 22 - 31 - - this is new sites . It ' s not so much you don ' t want mobile homes completely but also you don ' t want them banned . Tax base has - been mentioned , too . Naturally if you build a $ 30 , 000 home you get more tax base than on a mobile home but we have to have mobile homes because the others are more than people can pay for . The Planning Board looked into it and talked to the members of the boards of the towns that border us to look into why we are getting more than they are getting and basically the reason is that some towns ban them completely , others allow them only in parks and some other towns are making the size of the lots so large , especially around cities , that the cost is prohibitive , and they are looking for other places to go . It does make a difference . So the moratorium was put on and the Town Board came back to the Planning - 1 - i G . Totman : Board and said now we have a year , let ' s look at the mobile home ordinance , - -do we change it ? Make new rules and regulations? Make it easier for enforcement officer to regulate or do we in- corporate it into the general laws covering everything . And so when the Planning Board had their first meeting it was decided that before we start out on our own , - - before telling the people what they want in the regulations , - - we would try to hold meetings in the four corners of the town and listen to the people as to what they feel they would like . Some of the things we had in mind , - - there are people who live in mobile homes who take very good care of them , better than a lot of houses . Some people don ' t like to come to a meeting and get up and talk or go to this type of meeting . They are proud of their mobile homes and don ' t like to have the people that don ' t take care of them , or buy second or third used mobile homes and bring them across the road from theirs and cast _ a shadow on theirs , - - the ones that take care of their mobile homes . Some of the reasons why we are out here , - - like if you have a nice mobile home or even a nice home , you must have some ideas about what you would like to have the land around you look like . You might think you want to sell your land some day and would the value of your place go up or down if someone has a junky mobile home next door to you . So that ' s why we ' re here to listen to the people . Everybody who would like to speak I would like you to give your name and Josephine is taking verbatim notes and once these meetings are over we sit down anCgo-i)-over the minutes and try to make some recommendations to the Town Board . Even after the Planning Board makes recommendations to the Town Board they take them and study them and accept them the way they are or change them to the way they think they should be . Is that right , Hicks ? H . Dow : That ' s right . G . Totman : So the floor is yours . Ken Cobb : What are the regulations on mobile homes , do you have those with you? G . Totman : I didn ' t bring them with me tonight . Basically the regulations on mobile homes , - - H . Dow : I can give you the basics and I think they will cover lot size and other factors . The mobile home - - some call them trailers are on the same size lot as a conventional house which means in our zoning ordinance that frontage must be a minimum of 150 ft . , the total area a minimum of 30 , 000 sq . ft . , the front of the building must be 25 ft . minimum back from the road right of way so on a county or town road must be 50 ft . back . The building , whether mobile or home , cannot be closer to a neighbor ' s side line than 8 ft . and back line 25 ft . When a mobile home is put up the ordinance requires it be skirted within 3 months after it is put on the new spot . If the owner wants to add on to his mobile home and the addition is more than 100 sq , ft . he has to apply for a building permit , which is also true of any other building . There - 2 - H . Dow : no building codes in effect in our town as there are in some metro - politan areas which require certain kinds of wiring installations and plumbing . I think it ' s coming , m - I think in the State of New York we ' ll probably find we ' re a year or two away from this . We do require skirting and tiedowns on mobile homes but never specified how it should be done and the people I ' ve talked to I can ' t learn of a better way than any other way . Now , Ken , I can ' t think of anything more that applies to the mobile homes than what I ' ve said with the exception of skirting they are the same for conventional homes . Russ DeMond0 Is there any way you can put restrictions on the amount of junk or is this discriminating against the law? G . Totman : In some towns they have , - -in parks they do it more than if you have a lone owner or something . It ' s a little hard to enforce in a town as to what you call excess or what not to . H . Dow : Leading into Russ ' question , - -we have cases where we have them put oil tanks in back of their trailers or enclose it on one end . Yes , Russ , we do require in our ordinance that junk cars can ' t be housed around any buildings . Actually , if anyone owns more than one junk car , they have to apply for a junkyard license . This ordinance is going on 6 years old and that ' s why as you travel around the Town , in our Town you see very few more than one car . On 222 we have a couple of cases up there that Dana ' s been looking into , - - the place is all cluttered up and the man has 2 of them in back , - - they are all cluttered up but don ' t have any other storage building . They have everything spread everywhere . If they had one halfway decent pole barn they could house all that . That might be a good way to satisfy those people that are bringing up the same question you brought up , Russ . We might give some thought to auxiliary buildings . That ' s off the record . I think Dana might come up with that suggestion in the future . G . Totman : These yellow sheets are questionnaires and we would like to have you fill them out and turn them in to us before you leave . We would really like your opinions and we can take these and gather them afterwards and get some kind of concensus of what people ' s thoughts are . Russ DeMond : How about the tax problem? Some of these fellows are living in them , - -do their taxes depreciate ? G . Totman : They got into this good over in McLean . The County does have a deevaluation in the tax base but like a guy in McLean said it doesn ' t decrease in many mobile homes . One guy got them to cut his by $ 50 . 00 one year because he went down to a grievance day but it doesn ' t have to decrease in your taxes because taxes are going up all the time . Hicks has talked to Don Payne who is the County Assessor . H . Dow : In the rule book this is what it says that a mobile home over a period of 12 years is to be depreciated 50% . Now , as you know , - 3 - H . Dow : reassessments take place every three years as scheduled , so over a period of four assessment periods your depreciation should be taken care of , - - 12 years , - - 4 depreciations , - -brings you down to 50% normally . Now if we had no inflation that would be effective and everybody could see it work but we have this other working right along with it so we have inflation now bringing up the prices of everything keeping up the scaling down that would normally take place so if a trailer hasn ' t changed assessment for 5 years the guy is really ahead so he is still breaking even . But generally that ' s the rule they follow and like the man said that doesn ' t work as one man said his was only depreciated x number of dollars over 6 - 7 years and the fact that he put a building up has nullified it . We don ' t have normal times , we have pretty tough times ! K . Cobb : Mine has been there 9 years and hasn ' t depreciated one nickel . C . Twigg : Do they go up ? K . Cobb : No , but they didn ' t go down either . F . Wilson : Was it new when it was put in? K . Cobb : My son- in- law put it in . F . Wilson : Do you suppose the rule book you refereed to is based on a new mobile home? H . Dow : Yes . I don ' t think they have anything to spot values of used trailers . I really don ' t know . K . Cobb ; It was about a year old when it was brought in there and it was assessed for more than when it was bought . C . Twigg : They were assessing the lot , too . K . Cobb : No , they aren ' t . C . Twigga They assessed my house and just taxed what I paid for it the first year . H . Dow : Now the rules are out the window . K . Cobb : This fellow was around this last Fall . This should have been depreciated to a certain amount and whether he done anything about it , I don ' t know . H . Dow : You won ' t know until May 1st . R . DeMoud : This guy that comes around is real good , he looked at our buildings and said some should be deevaluated because of wear and so on . K . Cobb : As far as tax roll on mobile homes I think per capita you ' re getting as much as you do . .on a conventional home . F . Wilson ; As planning board members , we ' re not supposed to do much talking at this sort of meeting but I would like to speak on that question of - 4 - F . Wilson : regulations and that was brought up Tuesday evening in McLean and there was a party there that said maybe we should just tighten up on enforcement of regulations . I was going down 222 the other day and saw a yard with 4- 5 cars out in back . Obviously they are not being used and I thought to myself that there is a situation that should be taken care of and , as a matter of fact , I stopped and looked at the man ' s name on the mail box . But then I went down the road another day and when I went by your house , Ken , the home next to yours apparently has two older cars that are classic cars and are worth money and will be worth more money and he has them covered with plastic tops but actually he ' s in violation . Some discussion was held on this subject by G . Totman , F . Wilson and others . R . DeMond : I haven ' t anything against Dana but these things should be enforced and someone should go to him and say it ' s got to be enforced and I don ' t think he is going out and doing the job he should do . I have nothing against him . Some discussion was held on this by H . Dow who said we had a case in court against Brown but he always complains about his back and we are living in a time when the criminal and lawbreakers are looked upon as the guys we should cry about . Landowners and lawful citizens are the people who are the last to get their way but law enforcement is what is needed . We can take them to court but have to wait until a judge gets back and so on . G . Totman : Arthur and Red both live in nice mobile homes , - -now Arthur was at our Peruville meeting but I haven ' t heard either one of you comment on what you feel about enforcing the ordinance . Mr . Sampson : I think it should be taken . care of , - - V m for treating mobile homes the same as any other home . Mr . Simons : As far as the ordinance is concerned , - -you shouldn ' t climb on mobile home owners any more than you should regular home owners . Mr . Sampson : I ' m all for having them kept up but want to see everybody else do the same thing . R . DeMond : This is the whole thing , - - some don ' t keep them up and they spoil it for everybody . Mr . Simons : Your regular homes , - -have the same problem there . G . Totman : That ' s what we ' ll do next . Mr . Simons : I think they should be done together . Mr . Sampson : The ordinance should be inclusive , same for both . G . Totman : We had to have some different rules for mobile homes because of skirting and things like that . On regular homes we have the general ordinance and subdivision regulations , which is same thing as mobile homes and mobile home parks . You have the separation on conventional homes when you deal with subdivisions . - 5 - Mr . Sampson : What kind of regulations for tie - down do you have on a house ? H . Dow : Most houses are built over a cellar . Mr . Sampson : Alright , but is there an ordinance for it ? H . Dow : No . Mr . Sampson : I can show you houses right in this Town that are not tied down . C . Twigg : I don ' t think mobile homes that have a foundation under them need to be tied down . G . Totman : I would want mine tied down . I ' ve seen some of these after a windstorm - - even a house - - I don ' t know why anybody wouldn ' t want to tie them down . When they aren ' t tied down they are thrown all over the place . Like the bad storm we had in Dryden a few years back . The ones tied down didn ' t move . My house is tied down , - - it ' s bolted to the cellar wall right around . Mr . Sampson : All I ' m saying is the ordinance should be equal both ways . Mr . Simons : There are people that would rather live in mobile homes than in conventional homes and I can ' t see why they shouldn ' t have just as good a right as anyone else to put a mobile home on a piece of land as to conform to the ordinance as far as size and everything is concerned as to put a conventional home out there . Why has one person got the right to say he can ' t put that mobile home there just because he has a conventional house right there ? G . Totman : One person can ' t , - - it has to be the Town itself to enact a law that covers everybody not just one person . One of the things that can happen , Harold , and I can see where it can happen , - - like you own a nice mobile home and have it all fixed up nice and somebody buys a lot across the road from you and they don ' t have much money and their in- laws have given them an old mobile home and they move it across the road from you , - - maybe you don ' t see it my way , - -but this , to me , will deevaluate your mobile home . Mr . Simons : We have already gone into that . G . Totman : I ' m talking about the value of the mobile home . Some people move into an area because they like the area and that ' s why they buy because they like it there and maybe the ones there wouldn ' t want them , - - I ' m not talking about new mobile homes , I ' m talking about second or third -hand ones . There are some areas where you have to look at it and see what you are doing to the other person . C . Twigg : In other words a $ 500 . trailer could cost the neighbor $ 10 , 000 value loss . K . Cobb : I see what you ' re talking about but what is to stop him from coming in and putting up a frame tar - paper shack ? - 6 - Mr . Ferris : Maybe I ' m wrong , - - I ' ve been to all the rest of these meetings and they ' ve talked about this , - - like in the Town of Lansing they have no ordinance and they have done this and have nice houses and some - one came in and put a one - car garage in and are living in it , - they took the overhead door off and put a regular door on it and that ' s what they are living in . This is what you ' ll get if you put an ordinance in against trailers . R . DeMond : You just can ' t look at trailers or houses , - - the whole thing has got to be tied together . Down in Cortlandville and Virgil they have been looking on it for years and years . The whole thing has to be worked togwther and it ' s going to take a hell of a long time and a lot of people involved to do it . You don ' t have any kind of growth untess it ' s planned . H . Dow : There ' s an old saying , you ' re going to have growth whether planned or unplanned . Mr . Simons : That ' s right . G . Totman : That ' s what our job is basically . It ' s unpopular at times . C . Twigg : Someone is going to get hurt . R . DeMond ; That ' s right but that ' s growth and you ' re going to have to live with it . F . Wilson : What we have to try to do , as far as our recommendation goes , is draw a line and take into account human factors and planned growth factors and let them work together . Mr . Simons : That ' s what I mean , - -why discriminate against mobile homes . In that respect you got to go along with everybody . G . Hoy : Seems like you could have certain areas where someone can come and build nice homes and keep trailers out . There isn ' t a spot in Groton that doesn ' t have a trailer now . F . Wilson : You ' ll find that right on that questionnaire , Gordon , - - G . Totman : There ' s an area in Dryden where they did this , - - it ' s the Ellis Hollow area . They took this area and said only conventional houses could be built there and the person that bought land there knew that the only type of neighbors he was going to get were the type who could afford to buy there and that has been their fastest buying area in the Town of Dryden but because they made that area that way they are getting a lot of those type of houses in that area . I don ' t think it ' s all that bad that way . They just took the one area and made it that way and because they did it they are helping the rest of the people in the town by creating a larger tax base up there and those kind of families usually have fewer kids . I guess that ' s why they have more money and they are taking an acre of land and putting a $ 50 , 000 home on it so those kids are going to school and they are paying taxes on $ 50 , 000 and in other areas , where they put up smaller conventional homes or mobile homes , they have kids going to school on $ 10 , 000 tax base so it ' s good to look at it . - 7 - R . DeMond : This is the way I feel . I say pick out one or two areas and say they are just for conventional homes . G . Totman : The idea may be good but you ' ll get some people that live in that area who will say why - = the kind of development that is there already has to be allowed to stay but it just doesn ' t go any more in that way . F . Wilson : If we could come up with that kind of development and encourage de - velopers to come in to develop that type of housing it would benefit everyone . It might not be a possibility for the guy looking for a place to come in and put a mobile home in , - - then this person would be hurt . CO Twigg : But there would be fewer hurt . R . DeMond : You talk about erroded tax base . Has anybody any idea how long it will keep being that way if mobile homes keep coming and coming in . My house is now assessed at $ 18 , 000 . Now if a man moved a trailer in 10 years ago that cost $ 3 , 000 then would his taxes be put down or would they go up ? C . Twigg : It would stay just about the same . H . Dow : Here is an example I heard used at a meeting not too long ago . Here is Lot X with 4 mobile homes , - - the assessment on those was around $ 4 , 000 . They were not very attractive places and there were 12 children coming from the 4 mobile homes with a total assessment base of $ 16 , 000 and the school tax , which is our most burdensome tax , was being provided to educate 12 children on a $ 16 , 000 tax base . Now Russ ' place is assessed for $ 18 , 000 , that one house is pitted against 4 dwellings in terms of assessment . Russ could have 2 children and would pay as . much tax as 4 families to educate 12 . Tye typical ideal situation would be 25 youngsters to a teacher , - - 1 / 2 teacher to a unit. . Now that is a shortcut explanation but that ' s what we ' re really talking about . G . Totman : Another thing that comes to my mind , and it bothers me , - - people say why do you pick on trailers in the first place and it ' s a good point but our job is to plan for the future for the Town of Groton and it ' s the Town Board ' s job to keep the tax base in line and when the other towns around us are clamping down already and say for example Homer doesn ' t allow them in at all , outside of in parks , - - some people say that ' s unconstitutional , - - Cortlandville hasn ' t stopped mobile homes but they have made it so restrictive that people can ' t afford to buy the land . Virgil is in the process of working on theirs . Dryden says they are trying to see what they can do to - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - on theirs and as I see it we wouldn ' t be doing a proper job if we didn ' t look at it and see what it will do to the town . It would be nice if the people of Groton could just take care of the people that live in Groton but that ' s not the case as mobile homes can be bought with practically no down payment and the working young couple can ' t afford a con- ventional home so they buy mobile homes and can ' t put them any place else so bring them to Groton . I think we are being forced into this because of what the other towns around us are doing . Harvey Fink is chairman of our planning board and after the first couple of meetings - 8 - G . Totman : shook his head and said I think everybody is mad at me , - - they don ' t } understand what we ' re trying to do and I told him that after 10 years go by you might feel good that someone did do something about it . Should Groton be the place for everybody to come that can ' t go any place else? These things should be looked at , - -whether you agree or disagree with them . I have two mobile homes across the road from my house and they are beautiful and they are nice people . I hope they don ' t move but but there are other people that don ' t do that . But these are local people , they didn ' t come in from the outside because they couldn ' t go any place else . Mr . Ferris : Another town in Tompkins County has zoning and one of the Town Board members got caught in his own trap . Had a piece of land in the woods and he had his trailer set up there and because of the ordinance they passed , somebody found out about the trailer and turned him in , - - what else could he do ? He would up having to build a $ 20 , 000 house just for a summer camp because of the trailer ordinance . Some discussion was held on this by H . Dow , G . Totman , Mr . Ferris and others . F . Wilson : We assume that the people in the township understand that the ordinance that will be put into effect won ' t affect anybody that already has a trailer as long as they are there now they will be allowed to be there . Mr . Cobbs : On Hicks ' remarks , - -he had assessment roll of $ 16 , 000 , - - if these people weren ' t there , is there any reason to believe someone would be there to put up that much for taxes ? H . Dow : I can ' t say . C . Twigg : There might not have been 12 kids there either . Mr . Cobbs : That ' s true . C . Twigg : By that same token , if those trailers didn ' t come in , we wouldn ' t have the burden of 12 kids to educate . H . Dow : As I see it , and I could be wrong , but our big challenge is to recognize first that people are going to have to live and secondly they can ' t all afford a $ 30 , 000 home . We might as well admit it , we know it ' s true . I had a party at my house the other night , just young people , one couple were married and the other two couples thinking about it and they were all interested in what it would cost to have a home . I didn ' t talk a great deal but one couple said we can ' t afford to go out and buy a trailer and at the end of the time when we get it paid for and then find out we can ' t get our money back . We would like to know what it costs to put up a house that ' s on a wall , a double 12 or double 14 where we might have 24 or 28 ft . of house width for 2 bedrooms and have something that 20 years from now could get what we put into it back out . What do you call them , - - modular homes . There isn ' t a modular home anywhere around here 5 , 6 or 8 years old that isn ' t worth more today than when it was built . Now the kids want to know how much more expensive it is and I couldn ' t answer that but I did see in the paper they were selling single trailers for $ 15 , 900 . Well , now , I was down in Horseheads the other day and talked to a fellow that puts 12 or 14 ' s up and he said he could do it for $ 14 , 400 so what I told the Planning Board , as my con- - 9 - H . Dow : tribution to this study , I ' d like , between now and the spring , to talk to several bankers that we all deal with around here say Leonard Mott , Stafford and all of them but before going to the bankers go to 3 - 4 builders who put these up and see what it would cost where you own or buy your own lot . And then see if the bankers who would have a more secure investment in a double 12 than a straight trailer , if they could extend a - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - period , maybe 4 - 5 years , beyond the trailer stage , so these young couples could come in and go in debt $ 3 , 000 to $4 , 000 more and buy modulars . In the end it ' s a kindness to these young couples as they can put their dollar savings into a home that will hold its °'A value because someday they will move on and sell it . So that ' s what we ' re going to try to find out . It ' s true times are rugged and I don ' t know how these young couples are going to make it unless they can get some help from somebody . C . Twigg : Why do people live in mobile homes ? What is the biggest reason ? When you ' re talking to mobile home dwellers why do they move into a mobile home , - - like this fellow here , he lived in a house and sold it and moved into a mobile home , - -what was the reason? Mr . Sampson : Because I like it better . C . Twigg : Why do you like it better? Mr . Sampson : I owned a 14- room house in Groton . R . DeMond : What did you need a 14- room house for ? Mr . Sampson : Also I wanted everything on one floor . Mr . Cobbs : Maintenance and upkeep isn ' t as much . Mr . Sampson : I ' m getting older and can ' t get up and do roof repairs and this way I don ' t have to . C . Twigg : Most of the people I ' ve talked to that live in a mobile home , - - one of the first things they mention is that the taxes are less . Mr . Sampson : I won ' t say that they aren ' t but that was not my reason . The fact is I never even thought about the taxes . I ' m personally willing to pay my fair share of the taxes . I have nothing against that but , on the other hand , I got a lot of things against being discriminated against because of living in a mobile home . R . DeMond : I think one of the main reaons is they don ' t have enough money and that was the best they could do . G . Totman : Three years ago the State changed the banking laws where you can buy a mobile home with no down payment . Some discussion was held on this by R . DeMond , G . Totman and others . Mr . Simons : Here ' s another thing , George , you take a young couple that have 4 kids and don ' t own anything else and maybe they have enough money to put a down payment down for a trailer and they have been renting and get kicked out and there ' s hardly any place you can find to rent if you have 4 kids . 10 - R . Gleason : I think a lot of people that buy mobile homes look at it more as to whether it ' s better than having to rent because even though it depreciates they still own it and in the end they are going to have something . Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , Mr . Simons and others . R . Gleason : Is public housing going to give any tax base ? R . DeMond : No , that would see additional taxes , - - it ' s six of one and half a dozen of the other . It used to be you could put a trailer up for $ 800 but not any more because people pay around $ 5 , 000 to get it set up . You aren ' t going to buy a lot now for less than $ 1 , 000 either . H . Dow : If I understand it correctly , that guy next to your place in a mobile home plans to build a house ? R . DeMond : Yes but if they are nice people I don ' t give a damn . C . Twigg : And you aren ' t going to change those people either . If they all shuffle into the Town of Groton , - - R . DeMond : Then , we ' re moving ! F . Wilson : There was a time , a few years ago , where a guy could build a conventional home on a lot and the reason I bring that up is this , I don ' t think a person should be offended simply because we are talking about changing the ordinance on mobile homes any more than the people in conventional homes who were told from now on you have to have 150 ft . frontage and we don ' t mean to give anyone the impression we ' re against them . We ' re just trying to get good growth in the Township . R . DeMond : It ' s not the home , it ' s the people that live in it . Mr . Ferris : I think there are more conventional homes run down , where I live , than there are mobile homes . Some discussion was held on this by C . Ferris , G . Totman , F . Wilson and others . F . Wilson : Don ' t you think that if a guy had some ambition he could fix it up ? C . Ferris : I don ' t think anybody could fix up that home . F . Wilson :. Aren ' t there some in that area that a person could buy for less than a mobile home ? C . Ferris : Probably there is but yet you ' re running down mobile homes . You ' re trying to get rid of them . F . Wilson : No , we ' re not , What we ' re trying to say is if they are going to come it we have to make allowances for them like where they should be and how they should be regulated . C . Ferris : This is the same thing as saying to a guy well maybe you have a million dollars but will limit you to one house . 11 - F . Wilson : Carl , can you imagine what your taxes would be if they were all mobile homes in the Town of Groton? C . Ferris : You would be taxed according to the kids of your town . F . Wilson : If you don ' t have a conventional home to pick it up then you would be paying more . C . Twigg : Which is discriminating against the fellow that has a conventional home ! Mr . Simons : A lot of people with 3 - 4 kids don ' t want to live in a trailer but have no choice . G . Totman : Someone mentioned fire hazard earlier , - - the New York State Firemen ' s Association , - - that ' s one of their main topics the fire hazard . I guess it ' s because they are so tight the heat builds up so quickly they blow up and New York State now has a law that took effect last September 1st , - - H . Dow : I think it ' s July 1976 , G . Totman : They have some very strict rules for fire safety so any new ones coming in have to have State approval . F . Wilson : Russ , I don ' t mean to put you on the spot , - - you mentioned the fact you stipulated this fellow would build a house in 3 years . R . DeMond : I asked him and he said he would . I own land in Tully and have 8 trailers in there and collect good rent on them . I always ask the neighbors if it ' s O .K . with them . They just go to the neighbors and ask if they have any objections - - G . Totman : What if they do ? R . DeMond : Then I suppose it would go to a public hearing . You have to work together . F . Wilson : In Virgil they have to have a public hearing on each one and in one case the land owners objected to it and the lot was so small that the guy had to get a variance in order to put it in there and even though they objected and he needed a variance they still let him put it in there . Some discussion was held on this by R . DeMond , F . Wilson and others . G . Totman : Well , if nobody has anything else to say - - does anybody else have anything else to say ? We could talk here all night . A lot of the places that are causing a problem is where an invester puts up 4- 5 trailers for rent . Some people have said that could be a rule you could make that if you want to live in a mobile home fine but don ' t allow them to be rented and you won ' t run into that problem . R . DeMond : You only have 9 months to figure this out . G . Totman : That ' s why we held these meetings . We didn ' t have enough time to 12 - G . Totman : wait until the first of the year to do it . R . DeMond : Have you read these questionnaires over yet ? G . Totman : Just the ones from the first meeting - - at West Groton . They answered questions both ways . In that particular area most of the people that were there , - - I assumed from their conversation , - - lived in mobile homes . C . Ferris : At West Groton ? No , most of the people that were there lived in conventional homes and were fighting for mobile homes . G . Totman : Most all of them felt they should be treated as a regular single dwelling unit and the feeling was that they should be allowed in certain areas and one of the points there was that parks should be allowed but only in certain areas . A lot of people don ' t want a trailer park next door to them . Some discussion was held on this by R . DeMond , G . Totman and others . Mr . Totman thanked everyone for coming to the meeting and requested that the questionnaires be handed in be- fore leaving the hall . Respectfully submitted , Jos phine Bell -_. 13 -