HomeMy WebLinkAbout1975-12-16 h Y ,
GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC INFORMATIONAL
MEETING HELD AT THE MCLEAN COMMUNITY
HALL , McIEAN , NEW YORK , TUESDAY ,
DECEMBER 16 , 1975 AT 8 PM
PRESENT : H , Fink - Chairman* V . Rankin - Town Councilman*
G , Totman on Vice - Chairman* H . Dow - Town Supervisor*
F . Wilson*
C , Twigg* J . Bell - Recording Clerk*
R . Gleason
J , Laiacona A . Clark - Ithaca Journal*
D . Payne Approximately 27 members of general public*
- Denotes those present .
H . Fink : Good evening , ladies and gentlemen , I would like to welcome you
here on behalf of the Town Planning Board of the Town of Groton .
I ' m Harvey Fink and would like to introduce the other members of
the Planning Board who are here this evening , - - George Totman from
McLean and Fred Wilson who lives on Route 38 on the Locke line .
We have called these series of public meetings to gain input as to
what people would like as far as the ordinance is concerned on mobile
homes after the moratorium is over . What would we like , - -more
restrictions or less ?
We ' re here to get input on it from the citizens of the Town of Groton .
Josephine Bell is taking minutes for us and if you have something to
say please give your name and speak fairly slowly because she ' s
taking shorthand and I run off at the mouth and she can ' t keep up
with me sometimes so be sure and talk slowly .
To give you a little explanation , we are not the legislative body
of the Town the Town Board is . The Town Board has asked us , as
the Planning Board , to look into this . We make recommendations to
them and they call a public hearing and vote on it and they say
yes or no . We are not the legislative body , all we do is make
recommendations .
We have a mobile home opinion survey form here which we ' re passing
out , you don ' t have to sign your name to it , you can alter them ,
change them and write the answer you like on them if you don ' t care
to speak out put your comments on the paper ,
If someone would like to kick it off , and , again , we ' re here for
input and some of the problems we have had with other public
meetings is we haven ' t got input but we are here to listen ,
R . Kiley : I ' m Robert Kiley , - - could we get an explanation as to what the
ordinances are? Some people don ' t know what the ordinance is or
what it consists of .
- 1 -
H . Fink : Bob , - -I don ' t know if I can answer that in an hour or two but it ' s
quite lengthy to answer that question . If you have a specific ,
maybe I can answer it but it ' s so broad .
R . Kiley : I understand there ' s a moratorium on them now , like when this is
lifted , - - when this is lifted , - - are there any regulations
existing right now , - - I mean could a guy buy a piece of land and
say all right I ' m going to put a trailer on it .
H . Fink : No , - - there ' s an ordinance that ' s been in effect since 1970 and that
same ordinance was in effect up to the present so it ' s a 5 -year
ordinance . The ordinance has some fallacies to it , - - different
things that are not explained very well , - - some things are not
enforced very well but nobody can just put something on without
some kind of a permit , - - there ' s an occupancy one , you have to
hav6 , and Health Department approval and minimum lot requirements , - -
does that help you , Bob ?
G . Totman : Bob , in general , - - the mobile homes in the general town ordinance , - -
they are dealt with as a dwelling unit but there ' s an unique factor
that apply to dwellings like skirting , tiedowns , road frontage require -
ments and there are some other things in the mobile home laws
about auxiliary buildings for things like lawn mowers and things
like that and the general overall ordinance covers things like
more than one unlicensed car in the yard which applies to everything .
But the regular mobile home ordinance is mainly setbacks , skirting
and proper placement of the mobile home right now . Does that
summarize it , Hicks ?
H . Dow : I think you should say that the same thing applies to single
dwelling homes .
R . Peck : I ' m Ronald Peck , - - if a guy has got a standard size lot couldn ' t
he put a mobile home on it . Say he has a lot 160 x 200 , could
he put a mobile home on it .
H . Fink : Yes , I mean after he meets certain requirements .
R . Peck : What are the requirements on skirting ?
H . Fink : Hicks ?
H . Dow : The ordinance calls for having it skirted 90 days after it ' s set
up .
R . Peck : What about outbuildings ?
H . Dow : Anybody that has outbuildings would have to make sure they have
a minimum of 10 foot from side line of their neighbor . The same
thing applies to the neighbor . 25 ft . from the back of his own
property which would apply to his next door neighbor , too .
At this point Mr . Fink introduced H . Dow and V . Rankin
to those present .
J . Barrett : I ' m Jim Barrett and I ' d like to know why you put the moratorium
on in the first place . I don ' t know why it was put on and would
like to know why . I think you ' re against trailers .
2 -
J . Barrett : I ' d like that answered right now .
G . Totman : The Planning Board asked the Town Board to put the moratorium on and
the Town Board put it on . There was a public hearing held in August
by the Town Board on the proposal of putting a moratorium on for
a year on mobile homes . The basic reasoning behind the Planning
Board ' s request was number one the Town Board had asked the Planning
Board to study the general rules as well as mobile homes because
many people in the community were questioning the enforcement of
the ordinance and wondering why so many more mobile homes were
coming to Groton and we looked into the other towns and they were
being much more restrictive than the Town of Groton . For example ,
Homer doesn ' t allow any but we don ' t want that so we were asked to
study it and see why we were getting more mobile homes than con-
vdntional homes . There was a question of tax base brought up and it
was thought that maybe it was because there was no protection in any
areas of the town that mobile homes were going in across the road
and there were also questions from people in mobile homes , who take
better care of their homes than some of the people with old con-
ventional homes that let them run down and they were saying we are
being criticized because a lot of people that do have them are not
living up to the ordinance and we are all being criticized . A lot
of these people were not people that put in mobile homes but were
second or third owners and people who bought them were people who
did so because they just couldn ' t put them in other towns so the
Town Planning Board requested the Town Board put a moratorium on
to give us time to study it so we wouldn ' t keep getting this influx
from other towns . We made a very strong suggestion to them that the
mobile homes that were here should not be affected by the moratorium
- - by this , I mean , that they should be allowed to live like
regular conventional homes , - -buy a new one if they like or replace
the one they have . The thought behind the whole thing was to stop
and study it and not let the situation get any worse .
One of the things I want to mention in answering that , as long as
I have the floor , is the Planning Board has the obligation of
studying this out , - - this is the whole role of the Planning Board ,
- - and making recommendations to the Town Board as to how , in their
minds , after studying it from the County , Town and State , the
people would like put into an ordinance . There are some people
that don ' t like any ordinance but regardless of the fact , - - like
them or not , they are here to stay .
Like I heard tonight on the radio , - - they were talking about the
number of homes being built and so on , and the number of permits
that are being issued , - - so that ' s here , - - and after the moratorium
is lifted in September there will be a new ordinance . The ordinance
that is there isn ' t being thrown out , - - it ' s being revised .
These aren ' t meetings that are required by law , - - these are meetings
the Planning Board felt they would like to hold so they could
listen to the people . There are people here tonight living in
mobile homes who take good care of them and there are some that
express the opinion that they don ' t like people that don ' t take
care of them putting a bad eye on us and this is why it ' s been
done . It ' s to try to protect the people that do live in mobile
homes that are taking good care of them and what we ' re looking
for at these meetings is suggestions as to what it should look
like after the moratorium .
- 3 -
f
H . Fink : Thank you , George . I think that question was well answered .
P . Duffy : I live on Lick Street , - - I have two mobile homes and one is my
dwelling and one is a temporary guest house and I understand
we can express our views as well as ask questions . Our home
has been here about 4 years now and it ' s true that ordinances
are here to stay unless , of course , the Supreme Court starts
striking us down , - -but they want us in certain places but in
New Jersey it was struck down because they were trying to keep
out minority groups . But some people do feel that zoning , as
such , is unamerican and unconstitutional and some don ' t feel
it ' s here to stay and it was true that when this country was
founded it was to get out of the system in England where a person
could build their house for a sum he could afford and this is
something that when you start regulating , - - I read in a news
magazine that the cost of local government is staggering now because
of the cost of regulations . It ' s a necessary thing and . it protects
us , - - you have your right to live as long as you don ' t hurt anybody
else and this is one reason I personally don ' t like mobile homes .
I ' m living in one because I have to now because of the economy .
As the zoning enforcement officer , Mr . Snell , asked me , I wouldn ' t
like a junkyard next to me , this is true but as long as he doesn ' t
infringe on my rights , I have nothing to say .
My second reason , - - tonight I heard on the news that two - thirds of
the American people can ' t afford a home . Now I work for Mr . F - - - - -
and have one of the better jobs in the community , in the County of
Cortland , and yet I find I can ' t see my way clear to build right
now . I hope to , in time , but the average cost of a home is
$ 38 , 000 . The reason I know about this is my brother is in the
building business and the cheapest I can get by with a salt box
on my property is $ 15 , 000 . If you know the payments on that now ,
the local people in Groton , - - ture we have an influx , - -we are not
as a whole wealthy people , but most of the people are just average
trying to make a living and the price of a new home is not in their
grasp . It ' s that simple so the thing is like any community we feel
that since the average people , - - at least I do , - -with economic cir-
cumstances and so forth , - - the Planning Board has an obligation to
work for the people .
H . Fink : Your points are well taken and this has come out of most of these
public meetings , - - the biggest problem is economy in buying homes
versus mobile homes and we will consider these problems well and
don ' t get us wrong that we ' re trying to say , - - talking to people I
know from day to day , - - they think we ' re trying to kick them out of
town . This is the farthest thing from our minds .
D . Rice : What ' s the difference in tax rates between a mobile home and an
ordinary home ? Does one depreciate more than another over the
years ?
H . Dow : I had the answer to my satisfaction last week and I ' ll tell you
what it is . There ; s a scale that the Board of Assessors have
in Ithaca and on this scale it shows a mobile home depreciates 50
- 4 -
f
H . Dow : percent in 12 years but that doesn ' t mean that each year your evalua-
tion goes down or something like that , it means in the mobile home
every 3 years they reassess them so that in a 12 year period they are
reassessed 4 times . After 12 years and 4 reassessments you ' re supposed
to be down to 50% of the original price of the unit . Now that ' s
when times are normal but nothing is normal now . With inflation the
mobile home you bought in 1972 would cost $ 5 , 000 and would probably
cost around $ 8 , 000 now .
D . Rice : It does depreciate ?
H . Dow : It does depreciate , - -half in 12 years .
B . Lucey : I ' m Brian Lucey , - - if it ' s on an individual lot , don ' t they just in-
crease the value of the lot?
Some discussion was held on this by Mr . Lucey , H . Dow and
members of the Planning Board and general public .
S . Graham : I ' m Stewart Graham , - - I ' ve had a mobile home on my farm for about
8 years , I think , and here about 2 years ago this Tom Payne came
around to see what I ' d done on the barn and everything . Ilwas
asking about my mobile home depreciating and I said there ' s one
that hasn ' t come down any and when I got my tax notice I couldn ' t
see no difference so when I went to the grievance board I asked
about it and they looked it up and took $ 50 . 00 off , and then last
year I put a new one on and they upped it back up $ 1 , 800 .
H . Dow : We are one of the few counties that don ' t handle their own assess -
ment . There are those that say we are better off to have it the
way it is because by comparision with Cayuga County and this county
and the other county we have a more standard assessment level than
the other counties .
H . Fink : There are only two counties in the State of New York that are
assessed county-wide .
Mr . Kiley : On this tax question , for instance , the general rule of thumb , the
way I understand it , is that it does depreciate . I have a house and
worked a long time to get it and I ' m out in the country with a lot
of room around and I , for one , don ' t want to look out my window and
see trailers . I ' m not against them . My taxes have shot right up
and as far as I ' m concerned I don ' t mind paying the shot as long as
everybody does . I ' m out in the country and have room around me and
don ' t want a bunch of trailers around me . They are easy to buy per
se and are scrapped like cars . I ' m just generalizing , - - a lot of
people have them and keep them up good but there are a lot of people
that don ' t . The average house is $ 38 , 000 . I think a person who
would turn around and invest $ 38 , 000 would put a lot of effort into
keeping it up but once a trailer gers a second or third hand owner
it slides downhill and if they do it has to be picked up somewhere
and it will hit nothing but the home owners . My taxes have gone up ,
I don ' t like it , but there ' s nothing I can do about it but by the
same token if mine are going up and a guy buys a trailer across the
road from me and his don ' t go up I feel it ' s being shoved right to me .
As you say you can ' t put in an ordinance saying there can ' t be any more
but I think strong restrictions should be put on them . When I bought
the house had the assessors go right through it and they made the guy
that owned the house do different things that ticked him off and I
- 5 -
f
, Mr . Kiley : think it should be the same for trailers . If they are going to
sell them fine but have an inspector there to check everything
out and make it harder to buy or sell them and that way if
it ' s up to snuff they can be taxed the same . To me the whole
sum of the thing is I don ' t want a trailer court across from my
house , - - that ' s what I got out of the city for .
H . Fink : Thank you , Bob .
Mr . Peck : How can you base a $ 6 , 000 trailer against a $ 30 , 000 home ?
H . Fink : I couldn ' t .
Mr . Peck : That ' s what he is talking about . He has a house and say I have a
trailer and if I don ' t want more around me would have to buy the
land up so they couldn ' t come in . When I bought my place there
was only one other place next to me and now they are all over the
place but I don ' t mind a bit .
Mrs . Kiley : There should be restrictions as to where they can be .
Mr . Peck : Now you ' re talking against freedom . If a guy wants to buy the
land and put a trailer on it , that ' s his privilege .
H . Fink : We don ' t want to get into personal clashes . As I explained in the
beginning , we ' re here for input on the ordinance for after the
moratorium . I appreciate your comments but let ' s stay on the track .
Mr . Peck : The only thing I have to say is if anybody buys a trailer I ' d give
them a whole year to skirt it but you have it at 90 days and if
it ' s skirted in390 days there ' s nothing wrong with it . As far as
having either a house or a trailer across the street if you don ' t
want to buy the land up , forget it .
P . Duffy : I ' ve had zoning inspectors at my trailer , - - I had to show him that
I had my walkway of a hard surface and driveways of hard surface ,
- - these are laws that are there but again here comes the big
question that the gentleman summed up . What right does anyone
to decide who , - -what right do I have to dictate to some other
person what he can live in as long as the rules and new laws on
fire restrictions , etc , are obeyed . I have over $ 2 , 000 in a septic
system I put in but it comes to the point that most people say they
have - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I don ' t want to see it . I have a neighbor who
proceeded to buy all the land around him because he doesn ' t want
anyone around him .
B . Lucey : I have trailers everywhere . Under this so- called road size , I believe
you said they have gone up to 150 to 200 ft . Why would they go up
when it was classified 24 , 000 sq . ft . ?
H . Fink : 30 , 000 .
B . Lucey. : It was 24 , 000 .
H . Fink : The Health Department wouldn ' t approve it unless it was 30 , 000 sq .
ft . This is a Public Health Department rule , - -we ' re liable to see
40 , 000 very shortly .
- 6 -
lucey : The reason I asked , I sold a lot several years ago and they sub =
• divided it and they built on a lot that is 100 x 362 ft . deep , but
still under the mobile home law wouldn ' t allow them to put a trailer
on it .
H . Fink : It ' s not a mobile home low . The minimum frontage required is 150
ft x 200 but you have to have 150 ft . frontage , - - that ' s the law , - -
it ' s not dictated by the Town of Groton , - - it ' s a Health Department
law and basically goes back to the septic system . 150 ft . isn ' t an
awful lot of road frontage but the problem there was when they sub -
divided and sold off the land they did it incorrectly .
B . Lucey : Issue No . 1 , - - this mobile home ordinancy , - - I classify it as just
plain stupid , - - there ' s so much land in the Town of Groton that
ain ' t worth a tinker ' s good God damn , - - it ain ' t worth nothing . I
can ' t even have a good garden on it . I give my hay away and the
guy complains it gets poorer every year . The Town of Groton wants
money , - - I never seen them when they didn ' t want money because I ' ve
been there since 1941 and they used to complain that maybe taxes
would go down . I moved from the city because the taxes in the City
of Cortland were $ 60 . I moved to the Town of Groton because they
were only $ 9 . 60 but they aren ' t that any more and my buildings
were built before the County was born .
H . Fink : I don ' t want to interupt you or cut you short , - - I said people could
be heard but that ' s not what we ' re here for .
B . Luckey : What do you have this moratorium on for in the first place ?
H . Fink : This was explained earlier . What we want to know this evening is
what the people in the Town of Groton want for ordinance .
B . Luckey : We don ' t want any ordinance .
J . Barrett : Why not keep the ordinance we have ? Nobody ' s complained about it .
(At this point Mr . C . Twigg , a member of the Groton
Planning Board came in . )
G . Totman : By law the moratorium can ' t last for more than one year .
Mr . Peck : What happens at the end of the year?
G . Totman : Basically that is what we are looking for , - - the Planning Board has
to make recommendations to the Town Board to either leave the
ordinance the same , make it stricter or make it for areas where
they are just for mobile homes or conventional homes and so on .
Mr . Peck : Right now it ' s set up that anybody that owns a lot can put up a
mobile home on it if they meet the requirements ?
G . Totman : Right , - - that ' s the way it was before the moratorium .
Mr . Peck : They have to be skirted and tied down so they won ' t blow over .
Some discussion was held on why mobile homes had to be
tied. down .
- 7 -
Mr . Peck : So other than that ,
- - I ' d say that ' s it . If the guy has the money
to buy the land , - -
G . Totman : We will make recommendations to the Town Board as to what the
ordinance should be so we , the Planning Board , felt we should
not make that recommendation by ourselves but would like the
people of the Town to give us their ideas as to what the
ordinance should be after the moratorium . It is for this reason
we are meeting but as I said before we really haven ' t got this
sort of input . Mainly what we have talked about is why was it
put on , - -well it ' s there so what we want to know is what you ' d
like us to recommend when it ' s off .
I had a lady call me last night and talk to me because she had
heard these meetings were to stop them putting up any side buildings
and so on and that ' s not true . She said we keep our mobile home
up but we don ' t want people putting up ones that downgrade ours .
It ' s like a regular house if someone buys across from you and lets
theirs run down , it devaluates yours .
B . Lucey : Wouldn ' t it be better to have more of an environmental ordinance
that would require a flat fine of say $ 100 . 00 a year if you
allowed your place to deteriorate or grow up in weeds ? Something
should be done in that area , - - there ' s no doubt it ' s needed because
I have 2 in that neighborhood that have enough boats there to have
a marina and there ' s a house right next to it , his lot is 300 ft .
or better frontage by 200 ft . deep and , well , he don ' t even cut the
weeds .
G . Totman : Well , basically , you ' re saying what I was saying , - - it ' s not that
you ' re against people in mobile homes , - -
B . Lucey ; I sold a home under a land contract and unless you include everything
you can ' t get them to do anything . In fact I can ' t get him to even
cut the weeds . I ' m talking not only about mobile homes but houses .
H . Fink : You ' re hitting on the right ideas , - - that is some of the things we ' re
looking for . I would like to pass around a pad and pencil and have
you sign your names on it so we ' ll know who ' s been here .
P . Duffy : We have a lot of ordinances already and if they are enforced and ,
this is the thing , - - in a way I almost feel harrassed , - - the things I
have to do and have been doing and I can look around and see
homes where these things are not being enforced . These are things
the law is already there for and it ' s not being enforced . I ' ve done
things to try to make a gpod place to live and the law is there to
keep mobile homes clean and I fail to see why we need more if the
law we have is enforced .
H . Fink : So you ' re saying if they were enforced we wouldn ' t need to go
any farther ?
B . Lucey : So what you need is enforcement of existing laws , - - they are now on
record so someone should know what is there so they wouldn ' t have
to hire a lawyer to find out what is needed .
8 -
. Be Rice : Once this goes off , under existing laws , is it possible for a guy
to get a trailer say fifteenth or sixteenth -hand and put it on that
lot providing all the Health requirements for the septic system and
so forth are alright , is that right ?
H . Fink : Yes ,
Be Rice : I think something should be done to make sure that if the mobile
home is put there it ' s maintained .
H . Fink : We haven ' t gone into the aspect of financing through banks .
Mr . Peck : Banks will not let you finance second -hand trailers . You can buy
a brand new one cheaper .
F . Wilson : I have one question that I have been asked a lot and one objection
to mobile homes is the tax situation and , Stewart , you brought up
the fact that your appraisal hasn ' t gone down , - -now has this been
the general rule ? Have your taxes generally stayed the same or
gone up instead of down? How about your assessment ?
J . Barrett : I "ve had mine 6 years and it hasn ' t gone down .
F . Wilson : Are those the only 2 people ?
J . Barrett : Mine has stayed the same .
F . Wilson : Because people are generally of the opinion that they are going
down .
J . Barrett : They said trailers ' assessment goes down and they are losing tax
money , - -well this is not right .
P . Duffy : As to taxation , - - I have no complaints about my taxes because each
of us has to pay taxes to the government because it has to be done .
In Chicago it was mentioned that when people improve their places
they get a tax break and it gives people an incentative for the
monetary system and certain towns where they have garbage -y places
they are taxed more , - - I know people in this town that won ' t finish
their houses because they will be taxed more , - -now if people were
taxed because of this condition or not cutting weeds , etc . - - it
might be an idea to tax people more for this sort of thing and
give people a tax break wo do keep things up .
H . Fink : I ' ve heard of that in different New England places , too .
G . Totman : That ' s a good idea but as Mr . Dow pointed out the Town of Groton
has not got that power .
Be Rice : A few minutes ago they stated that taxes on mobile homes haven ' t
gone down . The point that hasn ' t been realized or brought out is
the fact that while mobile homes ' tax assessment base is staying
the same generally I don ' t know too many home owners whose taxes
are the same as 10 years ago . For example , mine have been jumped
twice . The thing is if my tax base would stay the same I wouldn ' t
mind paying it but - mine isn ' t and mobile homes are staying the same .
As far as I ' m concerned if the tax base is going to go up for the
houses it should go up for everybody .
9 -
Mrs ., Kiley : If you are going to live in the Town you should be willing to
• pay the same as anybody else .
Be Bennett : I realize Groton doesn ' t have control of the tax assessment but I
think it ' s about time somebody got on the stick and instructed the
people who do have the say . If you beautify the outside of the
house or put on a coat of paint up goes your assessment . The in-
centive is poor as far as beautifying the Town or County or any-
where and I think the point Mr . Duffy brought up is a g)od one .
Even though we don ' t have the power to do anything about it , some -
one should go to the ones that do have the power .
H . Fink : That ' s a very good point , Bob .
Be Skinner : For those of us that were at the Town Board meeting when they had
the public hearing , this was the point that was brought up , - - the
problem they have with taxes as regards to mobile homes and this
is the thing that impressed me the most . It ' s the one thing that
we could sit and listen to that made any sense to me . Now there ' s
a problem and O . K . now for those of you who are in a position to
know , do you know of anybody that ' s assessment hasn ' t gone down but
also hasn ' t gone up in the past few years ? I personally don ' t know
any .
H . Fink : If someone ' s did , I don ' t think they ' d admit it .
Be Skinner : I don ' t think so either . I have a neighbor that will not side his
house specifically for the reason that he is afraid his taxes would
go up . Now this is a home . As far as the assessment going up on
a mobile home or home , I bought a piece of land and owned it 3
months and the assessment nearly doubled with nothing on it and
nothing done to it . The assessment more than doubled in the first
3 months .
Be Lucey : That ' s because you ' re holding it for speculation !
Be Skinner : The basic problem we have here that I think the Town Board and the
Planning Board should be looking at is the tax problem as there is
a problem and research it and reach some equitgble solution . If
that is the basic problem it certainly isn ' t because they are run
down more than anything else .
H . I know what you ' re referring to , Bob and you ' re right . One of the
other problems that was brought up that night was that mobile home
ordinance was passed but the guy that had to enforce them had such
a problem that there was no way he could enforce them - - this is
a problem that zoning officers had with houses for years and they
must have given up on them because he hasn ' t had anyone bother him
for years and years . It ' s a problem right across the board if
you ' re talking about a tax situation and whether people living in
mobile homes and are getting the same privileges as people living
in $ 50 , 000 homes next to him but the guy that owns the $ 50 , 000
home isn ' t expected to pay the same taxes as the one that owns a
$ 350 , 000 mansion . These are the things that should be looked into
and believe me from my standpoint it isn ' t true that anyone can go out
and buy a home . You can ' t do it . You can ' t do it unless you have
cash in your pocket , can ' t go out and buy yourself a home any other
way . A lot of us are right in the middle and don ' t qualify for low
income help through FHA and don ' t have enough money for a down pay-
ment and other things . I have my land and can ' t put a mobile home on
10 -
% He - - - - - - : it that I want to and every single neighbor that borders my land
has no objection because I have talked to every one of them and
yet the Town Board can tell me I can ' t and that ' s not right .
Be Rice : Getting away from taxes and everything else , I think the big word is
environment . If they are going to be put up and kept up and haven ' t
got one on top of the other so to speak , getting away from the tax
question , mobile home or home or anything else , I don ' t see if the
restrictions are not unjust to the mobile home buyer why when the
moratorium does go off just revamp it to see they come up to standards .
If you have homes around you that are $ 25 , 000 to $ 30 , 000 and a guy
picks up a trailer for $ 500 and say he wants to sell his house so ,
getting away from everything else , I think environment is the big
word .
P . Duffy : One problem , - - going even into a mobile home , - - a piece of junk , - - or
a piece of property , - - can hardly touch a lot for under $ 5 , 000 . You
have to have a well , septic system and a lot to put in and if you meet
the specifications you have about five grand just to put a piece of
junk on . You don ' t see that noV , - they are all in the past , the ones
that are here and economically-wise again I sympathize with home owners .
I wanted one but can ' t afford the payments . I can afford the taxes
but not both so hope things work out and that maybe we can build again .
They can change the laws and can make tax changes and these all are
constitutional but telling you what people can or can ' t do is something
else .
H . Fink : Well , that is the reason for these meetings and through these meetings
we can study the results for our recommendations to the Town Board ,
Be Fouts : I was wondering if Hicks would elaborate on the figures - - at that
meeting that night in Groton , - - the number of trailers vs . the number
of houses ?
H . Dow : George , do you have those figures with you ?
G . Totman : The last year the figure was 4 to one , - -mobile homes vs . conventional
homes . I don ' t remember the exact figure , Dana Snell brought that
out from the number of permits that were issued .
Be Fouts : Seems something like 24 to 3 houses .
F . Wilson : Something like that . As you well know all the towns around us have
restrictions and they are now all coming our ways . In some of those
areas it might have been 10 years ago when they started . Hopefully
someday they will have some of these modular homes priced more
reasonably and people can put up modular homes instead of mobile
homes and add on to them later . We hope so .
G . Totman : I ' d like to ask the people that live in mobile homes we ' re talking
about , - -most people want to know whether it ' s legal or not to have
the moratorium but I ' m talking about what we ' ll have after we hold
these meetings . The people that live in mobile homes and are proud
of them and keep them up , what we are looking for is , - - is it a fact
that they would like to have some restrictions or rules for a neigh -
bor that might move next to them in a mobile home where he wouldn ' t
detract from his mobile home . Basically what ' s happened is it ' s not
11 -
G . Totman : even the majority of the people that live in mobile homes , it ' s the
people , and I call them second or third owners , the ones that have
bought the cheaper ones and don ' t really care how they live and , to
me , that downgrades their next door neighbor and what we ' re looking for
is , would you like some kind of control so they would have to keep their
value up ?
Mrs . Duffy : I ' ve seen both kinds of people . I ' ve seen people that buy a brand new
home , or mobile home , and within a year it ' s nothing but a pigpen but
that ' s the kind of people they are and no law you can pass can change
them . I think people can buy an old home and improve it and make it
beautiful . Like now we have a lot of laws on the books and if they
were followed you would have beautiful places but now they are not
enforced . As far as we ' re concerned , it ' s been up to us to do it .
We ' ve done it because we know we should do it but the other kind of
people , whether it be a house new or old , trailer new or old , don ' t
care and your laws are there but not enforced and they don ' t care
what they do .
P . Duffy : Let me add along with what my wife said . The only thing that works is
a monetary incentive . If you have that and put it into effect it might
work . Money always talks .
Some discussion was held on this by Mr . Peck and others .
H . Dow : One thought I would like to bring out when you ' re nearly through .
H . Fink : I think this would be the time , Hicks .
H . Dow : What I ' d like to say won ' t interest some of you a bit because you won ' t
be concerned and have no reason to be concerned because you ' re all set
and live where you are but within the last 10 days I have had three
young couples come up to my house . One couple just married and two
couples that are thinking of it and we ' re living in one of the toughest
times you could just to live and these young people need homes but
haven ' t the money to buy them but have the right to have a good home .
When I get through , if you will , I ' d like to have your comments on it .
Banks , by and large , will give easy money on trailers because it ' s sort
of the custom now to finance trailers but these same banks are pretty
careful about the length of time those notes can run because there ' s
truth in the fact that in x number of years these trailers are not
what they would be because they depreciate . So what I proposed to
these young people was within the next month or 6 • weeks I ' d like to
go see Leonard Mott in Moravia and the Cortland Marine Midland man
and the Dryden and Groton banks and talk to them and , first of all ,
before going to those banks , I ' d like to go to the people that put up
modular homes the double 12 ' s or 141s . Let ' s go back to the double
12 ' s . - -now experience has shown and banks will tell you that in 10
years if a double 12 or 14 is put up it ' s worth more money than when
they were first put up and the young couple if they can hang on to it
for 12 years can come up with the money if they want to sell it but
if they go into a $ 8 , 000 , $ 9 , 000 , $ 10 , 000 trailer they don ' t come out
with too much to show for their efforts .
Now I saw in the Shopper last week where some bargain trailers were
advertised , - - there was one for $ 15 , 000 that was a trailer but $ 15 , 900
would put up a modular . Down in Horseheads the other day I spoke to
12 -
% H . Dow : a fellow that puts up these buildings and , at that time , had reason
to find out for my own sake and he said if you have a lot , your wall
up and your plumbing , he said he could put up a nice 24 x 52 for
$ 14 , 400 and you add up that package and you have $ 21 , 000 roughly .
Now if we could go to the bankers and have them , with their community ' s
well being in mind , get together and work out a plan where these
young couples could have $ 21 , 000 or $ 16 , 000 , or whatever they end up
owing at a controlled interest rate , I have a feeling that what
these young people have in mind , - - this is what they would rather do .
Some can ' t get that down payment , - - they might not even be interested
in this but I have a sneaking suspicion they might and this is a
community service to help get our young people over the hump but I
can ' t advise a young couple to buy a trailer , pay on the installment
plan for 10 years and find out they ' ve been paying high priced rent .
Some of you may say that ' s not my problem , I ' m happy where I am and
you have a right to be . We haven ' t turned the corner yet on this
economy but we will eventually .
If anything that I ' ve said about this double 12 or double 14 invest -
ment is of any interest to you , I will try , within the next couple
of months , to get all the facts ttogether and when I ' m through the
answer may be no but I have an idea that something could be done
and I ' m very much interested' .in it .
I know all your ideas that were brought up tonight represent a dozen
fields of thought . We ' re all concerned with our own problems and
this Board is trying to find answers , - -not going to have a perfect
answer when we ' re through but . we ' re going to try .
B . Lucey : There ' s a man in Cortland , - -Emery Treman , - -he ' s putting in 150
modular homes in Cortland right now . He might even put up the
houses and do the financing . for you .
H . Dow ; You have to use bankers because there are interested in business ,
and a lot of you probably bank with Fay Stafford , a lot of Groton
people too . We have to get their answers to it and complete it
with contractors ' input .
P . Duffy : That ' s the best explanation I ' ve ever heard . I was in the circum-
stances he was mentioning and when I was talking to Mr . Metzgar of
the Groton Bank he was anti - new trailer . I ' m talking about the 12
or 14 wide , after you paid your time limit you had junk on your
hands and what Mr . Dow said is the thing that would give a young
couple a break . What __ I did , - - I got a used trailer and rebuilt it
and was able to come up money ahead but not many people can do
that . The bank took a chance on me but if they can get a loan ,
because they are selling regular 12 wides for $ 10 , 000 to $ 15 , 000
it ' s nothing when you ' re done . Get the backing of the banks , I
know Mr . Metzgar was excellent on that .
H . Fink : I understand the financial end is very tough any way . Thank you
very much , ladies and gentlemen .
B . Lucey ; Just a minute , - - concerning mobile home parks , one thing should be
13 -
s
B . Lucey : brought out in the Town of Groton and that is not to have any
like that Penguin one over in South Cortland . I want to make
that one point that they should be spread out enough so that what
you say in your building they aren ' t going to argue with you in
a building that may be 10 feet away !
H . Fink : A point well taken . Well thank you ladies and gentlemen . If you
will return the questionnaires before you leave , we ' d appreciate
it .
Respectfully submitted ,
Jo phine Bell
14 -
c�
�� / I
� tih ���✓ �' � mil_! �✓ Co - / �- `/G� ` '�7�5 `�
IF