Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1975-12-09 4 GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC MEETING Held at the West Groton Church West Groton , New York Tuesday , December 9 , 1975 - 8 PM PRESENT : H . Fink - Chairman* V . Rankin - Town Councilman* G . Totman - Vice -Chairman* H . Dow - Town Supervisor* D . Payne* R . Walpole - Town Justice* F . Wilson* J . Laiacona* Co Twigg Approx . 50 Members of the R . Gleason General Public . J . Bell - Recording Clerk* * - Denotes those present . H . Fink : Good evening , ladies and gentlemen . I ' d like to welcome you on be - half of the Groton Town Planning Board in conjunction with the Groton Town Board . We ' re here to get input from the people of the Town on how they feel on the mobile home ordinance . I ask you to speak and give your name . Mrs . Bell will record what you say so speak slowly so she can take it down in shorthand . I have a questionnaire we ' re passing around right now and also a paper on which we ' d like you to sign your name and address so we ' ll know how many people came and also would like you to fill in the questionnaire before you leave , - - you don ' t have to sign your name to it but fill it in and we ' d like any comments you ' d like to put on it . We ' re here for information so will open the meeting up to you . G . Totman : Maybe it would be a good idea to pass the questionnaire out now so they can see what the questions are . This was done . B . Miller : I ' m Beverly Miller and I have a question , - -would you please intro - duce everybody so we know who you are? Mr . Fink did so . H . Fink : This moratorium was put on by the Town Board effective September 20 , 1975 for one year and hopefully will come up with some solution to this that will benefit the majority of ,the people . of the Town of Groton well before September 20 , 1976 . H . Griep : I ' m Harry Griep , 9-Why does the Town Board feel it necessary to do anything about mobile homes ? Why has this come up ? 1 - H . Fink : I ' ll try to answer simple questions but we ' re here for input from the people . If you read the questionnaire it ' s a simple question that could take 4 hours to answer . But to answer it quickly , one thing could be a tax problem . Our zoning enforcement officer has had all kinds of trouble getting people to skirt - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - obtain certificates of occupancy and that is why we have this moratorium for a year , - - to get to see two sides of the coin . Some are for and we get phone calls from people against them and they call up wanting to know about one moving into their neighborhood , - - do they have a permit and so on . We ' re not here to eliminate them , - - they are here to stay but we want the best possible solution for the Town of Groton . We might not see it in 1976 but in 1996 , - -we had controls and regulations and laws but as people move in , - -we have room right now but later on might not so we need some kind of planning , - - in the year 2000 the Town of Groton could be an unlivable place . We ' re looking for the future . I hope that answers your question . H . Stewart : I ' m Herbert Stewart , - -maybe in 5 years you ' ll be glad to see a mobile home come into the Town of Groton , - -what about that ? H . Fink : I can ' t answer that . The Town Board and members have not come to any conclusion . We didn ' t have to have 4 public meetings but did because we want to see how the people feel . H . Stewart : O . K . What kind of a home will the banks lend money for a guy to build ? Has to be 3 - bedroom home and if you hire someone to have it built what does it cost ? $ 302000 - $ 35 , 000 and they are barely fit to live in and then why are people going to mobile homes ? H . Fink : There ' s some - - - - - - - - - to mobile homes . H . Stewart : The people voted mobile homes in , - - you guys are going against the vote of the people . G . Totman : I don ' t follow you , - - H . Stewart : Hicks Dow knows the people voted for mobile homes on their own lots but the vote of the people don ' t count any more . G . Totman : I don ' t understand what you ' re talking about , - - I don ' t remember people voting on mobile homes , - - the people didn ' t vote on it . B . Miller : He ' s talking about a year ago , - - before your time . Mrs . Reimer : You had a meeting in September , the 26th , I think you told us and the meeting was held on the 12th . H . Fink : To clarify that , - - that was the Town Board . We ' re the Planning Board and when that was done that was by the Town Board . Mrs . Reimer : What is this board here tonight ? H . Fink : We ' re here to get input from the people . If you tell us how you feel we ' ll know how to plan . 2 - Mr . Eastman : In other words , you took our land away from us for a year , - - are you going to pay our taxes ? As long as the land isn ' t ours we can ' t put a trailer in and we can ' t even put an outhouse on without a permit . I think the whole business is illegal . C . Ferris : My name is Carl Ferris , - - I put in for a trailer park in West Groton and was turned down and told I would have to go through the planning board for approval for a variance . Now to be truthful with you , I don ' t think it ' s my place to put in for a variance . They put the law into force , let them do the thing . H . Fink : This is an ordinance through the State of New York . To answer your question a variance is a hardship , - -hardship on the land . C . Ferris : That ' s what they have done on all of us , - -put a hardship on every landowner in the Town of Groton . They should fire everyone of you that is on this planning board . H . Fink : That ' s your opinion . B . Miller : The Planning Board is - different from the Town Board . I have been going to some meetings lately and the Planning Board is here , I think , maybe to help us I would hope and I think this has been misconstrued a little bit so give your good opinions and maybe we could get some place . H . Fink : A point well taken . We ' re not here to decide the laws of the State are good or bad . We each have our own opinions . We ' re not here to find fault with the Town Board , or any other board , we ' re here to get input on the mobile home ordinance and I think we ' re letting ourselves get carried away , - - if we can stay with the general topic , - - H . Lane : My name is Helen Lane . I think the moratorium was put on be - cause we have a problem with mobile homes in the township and I take it the problem has to do , for one thing , with sanitation code enforcements and so forth . Wouldn ' t the answer be some kind of improvement of the mechanism of enforcement if that is what the real problem is ? G . Totman : That ' s part of what the Town Board asked us to do . The regulations that they have are sort of ambiguous and hard to enforce and I think one of the other reasons , - - someone asked earlier why so much thought on trailers . Now as I ' ve said at meetings over the years you watched the other towns , - - the Town Board is responsible for tax dollars and the other towns around , - - this is one of the deciding factors , I think , - - like Homer for example does not allow mobile homes at all , out - side of in parks . Cortland has made it so restrictive that they are looking elsewhere to go . For one thing they require acre lots and around Cortland an acre lot , if you can ' t afford to build a new home you can ' t afford the lot and Virgil is in the process of doing the same thing and one of the reasons is tax base . - 3 - H . Lane : So the enforcement we have now isn ' t effective , - - any particular reason why? G . Totman : The Town Board said to the Planning Board we have a moratorium on for a year now you have a year to study the problem and look at other towns and see if you can ' t come up with a more workable ordinance and bring your suggestions back to us . H . Lane : I understand , too , there is also the problem of erosion of tax base . Could you explain this? G . Totman : I think mainly what it means is that if you take an acre of land and put a new home on it , - - I don ' t think you can build a new one for less than $ 20 , 000 , - - then take same acre and put a mobile home on it , - - even though it ' s just as nice the tax base is not as high so you have to support school systems and other things in the town and you have to look at it and see if other towns can ' t afford to have this happen than most of the mobile homes are moving into our town because it ' s easier for them . Is it fair to our people to let this erosion in , - - not only of the tax base but of mobile homes from other areas? H . Lane : On the other hand is it also fair to the people in your own community to make them so strict ? Is this being fair to present residents of the people here now? Some of the pro- blems people have here are different from that . We have a shortage of mortgage funds , high prices and most people are priced right out of the market , except for mobile homes , this is a real gut issue . My own opinion is that the Town Board and the Planning Board should reflect the feelings of the people who live in the community and not merely what would be best from an intellectual point of view . G . Totman : This is one of the reasons why we decided to do this . The Town Board always asks us to study problems and make recommenda- tions so we decided we can ' t do that sitting around by ourselves so let ' s hold public meetings in the four corners of the town and take notes and then go back and do our studying and planning . H . Lane : I really do object to the motion that we make ourselves a very exclusive neighborhood because we prefer more tax money or a certain type of market but this doesn ' t compare to the reality of the situation but whatever else other towns do I think the Town of Groton should be responsible to the citizens or it ' s not our community . H . . Fink@ A good point , - - this is why we ' re here to get input . and D . Christofferson ; I ' m Dave Christofferson . I know taxes / from the tax angle people are down on mobile homes but at this time people are out of this township in lieu of here where we would have been getting some tax dollars , where this way we ' re getting nothing . I know this happens quite a little . R . Reimer : I ' m Richard Reimer and I ' m wondering what our kids are going - 4 - R . Reimer : to do , - -where our kids are going to live , because I know my kids and others around here can ' t afford to go out and buy big homes . I service furnaces and I have seen a lot of $ 30 , 000 homes with poor joists and so on and what is a kid going to do to buy one ? Mrs . Reimer : They aren ' t as safe as some trailers , - - they can cave in . It ' s all new homes the other side of Groton and they say mobile homes aren ' t safe that they blow over and yet you let new home building go on and it ' s not as safe as some of the new mobile homes . R . Reimer : Most kids can ' t afford to buy homes at that price . H . Fink : That is one of the things we realize . R . Reimer : Is the double trailer considered a mobile home? H . Fink : Hicks ? On a double , that ' s a modular home ? H . Dow : From the experience that the Town of Groton got from con- tacting other towns in different parts of the State , and from the definitions of what we got on them they are counted as single family dwellings , - - this would include any one of these 12 ' or 14 ' , wouldn ' t be called a mobile home . Mrs . Reimer : But they are . H . Dow : Not in our Town , - - any double 12 ' or 14 ' is the same as any other home . Mrs . Reimer : The 14 ' x 70 that is put on a foundation , is that considered a mobile home ? H . Dow : At this point we don ' t like to accept that definition of a per- manent home because we like to have the width there . I see your point . I ' ve seen some on walls and they are very attractive . Some I ' ve seen have had some additions put on them and they are very good but for the sake of the ordinance the definition is the double 12 ' or 14 ' , .Ones are fully accepted as a regular residence , - - anything beyond that would have to be altered . Mrs . Reimer : You were talking about Cortland or Homer . Nobody could go into the township with house trailers to begin with because they are all homes . H . Fink : Excuse me , we are talking about Cortlandville . G . Totman : The town of Cortlandville covers all around . Mrs . Reimer : It ' s all become pretty built up . There are a lot of people living there . Most of the people you meet at these meetings like tonight are country folks . We don ' t care what they do . We have our zoning . Now say , - - take an example , - - your child gets married and he wants to build a home . You ' ve owned that property for 25 years and suddenly you ' re told you can ' t put a house trailer there , - -you ' ve paid taxes and kept up - 5 - Mrs . Reimer . the land , do you think this is right ? If someone buys an acre of land in the country it ' s their land and they should be able to put a trailer on it . You guys live in the village so a lot of things we wouldn ' t want came from the village . I can see why people wouldn ' t want them in the Village of Groton but we don ' t feel that way in the country . H . Fink : Well taken . J . Laiacona : Fred , where do you live ? F . Wilson : I live on Route 38 . J . Laiacona : In the Village or the Town? F . Wilson : In the town . Some discussion was held on this by J . Laiacona , Mrs . Reimer , H . Fink and others . G . Eastman : I ' m George Eastman , - - about one and a half weeks ago I put a trailer in . I called the Town of Groton and they told me I needed a permit to put it in a certain area and so many feet here and so on . I own land in Cayuga County , too , I go down the road 500 yards and can set it anywhere I want to set it and nobody says a word so why should they say anything in Groton ? That tax money would have been just as valuable to the Town of Groton as it would be to the Town of Locke . The only thing they require is that you have a septic system and well put in the way you ' re supposed to and your lighting system . I don ' t see any reason why it should be any different here . H . Fink : I don ' t want to get into answers again , - - to clarify things that ' s why we ' re here to serve you people and listen to what you ' re saying and , hopefully , if you notice the questions on the questionnaire , we ' re not here to do that , - -we have left these questions open because there are people that think both sides of the fence . G . Eastman : One other point , - - I believe George lives in McLean and I imagine they are getting a lot of them there . It ' s just outside of the Town of Cortlandville . You ' re having a problem because they passed them in Cortland and Homer and so on and they will come into the McLean area and try to settle there so I can see where he would feel different than people up here do where you don ' t get much of it . H . Fink : Hicks , - -would you like to say something ? H . Dow : It ' s simply because of the ordinance , - - if the town you speak of had the ordinance then it would be in effect there , too . We have several sources for that information that in time it will be zoned . B . Miller : The Town of Otisco hasn ' t and they are standing up for their rights and don ' t intend to have it . They have tried everything but the people have stood up and they haven ' t done it yet . - 6 - B . Miller : That point on sewer systems is a laugh , - - there isn ' t an old house in this town that has a decent septic system , - -many trailers have much better systems . H . Fink : They all do because it ' s a State law . B . Miller : They don ' t want trailers out in the country they want them in trailer parks in Groton so someone that wants a $40 , 000 home can afford another one . Doris Stewart : At some of your meetings it was mentioned that people don ' t want a little trailer put any place and that ' s too bad . It makes me sick of the whole business . H . Stewart : We have to scrabble to pay our taxes and I don ' t think anybody should tell us what we can do . Mrs . Reimer : If the Planning Board does this will it come up to a public vote ? H . Fink : No , we make our recommendations to the Town Board , G . Totman : Hicks , am I correct in saying that after the Planning Board completes their plans it ' s required by law that the Town Board conducts a public hearing ? A . Laiacona : I ' m Ann Laiacona and I pay taxes just like everybody else . I don ' t have a big house but I don ' t want mobile homes north , south , east or west and that ' s my opinion . Mr . Ferris : These people that don ' t want trailers , let them buy them out . H . Fink : Everybody has had what they want to say , - - that ' s what America is about , - - a little freedom of speech , right ? You ' ve made a statement and let ' s respect everybody ' s wishes . Mr . Ferris : We can ' t all have our wishes . The ones with the money get their wishes . Some discussion was held on this by Mr . Ferris , H . Fink and others . Mr . Ferris : In other words the Town of Groton is thieves and they usually arrest theieves and put them in jail . R . Bixler : I ' m Reid Bixler and I feel that anyone that owns their own land ought to be able to put anything they want to on it . Are you village or town people ? H . Fink : We live in the town . Mrs . Reimer : Will your decision go by the majority of what you accumulate ? H . Fink : I couldn ' t answer that , - - I have no idea what the answer will be . Let ' s put it like this . That ' s why we ' re here , - - to be honest with you we didn ' t have to be here . We ' re here for input and if everybody feels like that I can ' t say that it - 7 - H . Fink : will go like that , - - I ' m only one man . Mrs . Reimer : You ' re going to visit all 4 corners of the community , - - say all 4 corners are against it , will you vote the way the majority of the people feel ? H . Fink : I would think if we have a good turnout of this part . and other parts of the town it could go that way , I don ' t know . There are 6 other men on this board . Mrs . Reimer : Will this be in the paper ? G . Totman : Once we get through having all these input meetings we will be spending the next 6 or 8 months drawing up suggestions and ideas for the changes . The original ordinance took 5 years to draw up . You take what the people say into considera - tion but also have to know what ' s legal and get advice from professional people and so forth . N . Chiara : I ' m Nancy Chiara , I would like to know what you consider a hardship case where you would let someone put a trailer on their own property? H . Fink : It ' s hardship on the land not on your pocketbook . I think we ' re talking about two different things . G . Totman : Under normal situations before the moratorium came into effect and you wanted to put a mobile home in or anything you needed to obtain a variance . Say like on Cedar Lane , you wanted to add 10 ft . addition that would bring you too close to the line and you didn ' t have any more land you would have to ask for a variance but when that happens you go to the Board of Appeals as we don ' t have anything to do with that , the Board of Appeals does . N . Chiara : Alright , this things says nobody can put a trailer on their property for a year , right ? Now my father , - -his wife passed away , - - and he needs a place to live , - -why can ' t he put a trailer on his own property? He isn ' t going to be bothering anybody . I want to know why he would be turned down , - - it ' s ridiculous . He ' s worked 30 years and paid his taxes . G . Totman : They didn ' t put it in against Dave . N . Chiara : I know , but why does he have to be refused ? Anybody that has to - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - should be able to do what he wants with his property . H . Dow : Your Dad was to the Town Hall the other day and I told him then the moratorium doesn ' t distinguish . Your Dad didn ' t think he had a hardship case the other day . Dave Pierce : I would never beg any of you guys . I fought for my country , did you ? H . Dow : I was a little older than you . D . Pierce : You ducked out of it . - 8 - W . Eastman : I 'm Wayne Eastman . My personal opinion is if a fellow gets out and earns money to buy a plot of land , no matter whether it ' s a house or trailer , if he meets electrical codes , sanitary codes and so on let him put it in whether or not it ' s a house or a trailer if he ' s paying for it . It ' s his right to have a trailer or a house and nowadays it ' s true that most young people can ' t afford to buy a house . I 'm 25 years old and I can ' t afford to buy a house . Mrs . Eastman : I have 25 acres of land he can have to put one on if you would let him do it . W . Eastman : The younger kids are going to have to come towards trailers be - cause they can ' t afford houses so rather than block them out let them in and make sure they pass all the regulations when they do come in and at least you ' re getting some money not losing it all . D . Christofferson : It seems like there ' s enough room . I can see not having them door to door . You drive around the back roads and you could have a lot of places , - - both trailers and houses . Mrs . Eastman : If a person doesn ' t want them next to them buy the land up , that ' s what we did . H . Fink : Thank all of you for coming , - - if you will leave your completed questionnaires on the table we ' d appreciate it a lot . Respectfully /�submitted., Jos hin Bell - 9 - 1 an 02 "'L i 77 oe JO —ale - - - _o _ J L in,