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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1975-10-09 r GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING Held at the Town Hall Groton , N . Y . Thursday , October 9th , 1975 . 8 : 30 P .M . PRESENT : H . Fink - Chairman* G . Totman - Vice- Chairman* D . Payne* F . Wilson* C . Twigg* J . Laiacona R . Gleason B . Wright* J . Bell - Recording Clerk* - Denotes those present . H . Fink : . We approved a minor subdivision for Bob on Old Stage Road , had the public hearing and everything , and it was approved . Bob got ahold of New York State Gas and Electric and had a little trouble over getting power lines for certain sized lots so had to change the size of the lots so , while he ' s at it , wants to bring it to a major rather than a minor because he wants to sell 4 additional lots and has already sold 2 , which brings him into a major subdivision . I ' m sure there are some exceptions to the major subdivision ordinance but , before we get into that , he did ask me - - one man is willing to buy all the lots and he is a builder and wants to build one home right now on a lot . B . Wright : Yes , on this one . H . Fink : Since the major subdivision will take some time , he does have a problem as the man wants to build now before bad weather sets in , so I think maybe we ' ll look at it the way it is now and maybe let him build before final approval of the subdivision . B . Wright : What was 5 lots is now going to be 4 lots . Leo applied for electricity and they came to me and said I would have to go underground and it would cost me $ 3 , 000 and Leo $ 1 , 000 . The only way you can avoid going under - ground is to have at least 200 ft . lots . There ' s an exception in FCC regulations if more than 250 ft . lots , they can go overhead . If you owned lots on both sides of the road would have to have 400 fte lots to get away with the exception . D . Payne : This is the same tract that was approved as a minor ? B . Wright : Right , I would like to increase this one from 150 ft . to 200 ft . H . Fink : In talking about this yesterday morning , - - let ' s say he would sell one lot and the fellow is going to buy the balance of the land . Let ' s say let the next buyer come in for the subdivision but , Don , rather than go that route I think we had better resolve it on this owner , Mr . Wright , - 1 - H . Fink : rather than let him sell it and have someone come back for another sub - division . G . Totman : We have to check the law as to one person getting approval for the sub - division and somebody else being the subdivider . D . Payne : I was just thinking the same thing . H . Fink : Maybe my interpretation is wrong but if he sells 4 lots to the one guy , it ' s still 4 lots . He ' s buying the approval , right ? He ' s still the subdivider . The next guy , he can build on it or he can leave it vacant . B . Wright : But he can ' t change it without coming back . G . Totman : Forgetting the fact the guy wants to build tomorrow , as far as the Planning Board looking at the proposal , the larger the lot size the better . The larger the lot size , the more valuable the lot and in general the better the property will be that is on the lot , because people who want to put up something of lesser value couldn ' t afford the lot . So it ' s better we let him change it from 150 ft . to 200 ft . H . Fink explained again to Mr . Twigg and Mr . Wilson what the proposal involves . B . Wright : Basically what is going to happen is a $ 45 , 000 home on a 250 ft . lot . H . Fink : That ' s a good substantial tax base . F . Wilson : But you ' re losing one lot . As it stands now it ' s been approved as a minor subdivision and he can actually sell the second lot . B . - Wright : I don ' t know how you interpret your rules . I would think if it is bettered , it wouldn ' t be a problem , but wanted to come and find out as each town interprets it differently . G . Totman : The question , as I see it , is you are changing it from a minor to a major and in the process it would almost sound to me like you want approval to change it from 150 ft . to a 200 ft . lot on your minor subdivision and then you would come in and apply for the change from the minor to the major , does that make sense ? H . Fink : Yes , but if he does it that way , he ' d deed out parcel number 2 . I think that is where the difference is going to come in . I don ' t see any problem of adding the 50 ft . but the problem of 5 individual lots , actually 6 , when it ' s all sold , so he would be getting into a major , right ? He ' ll have a little extra red tape . Some discussion was held on this by B . Wright , F . Wilson and others . H . Fink : I propose it this way , and from my understanding , we can still hash this over . He has come in for a minor and had approval , now if we give approval on lot number 2 to build and for Bob to put in for a major sub - division on the balance of it , - - F . . Wilson : Do you have the map on the minor ? H . Fink : I have one in the office . 2 - Mr . Wright pointed out on the map what it comprised of . H . Fink : I think if we can resolve this one piece of land right now , you and the second guy won ' t have to come back again . C . Twigg : In other words , no doubt he can do what he wants to do but what you ' re trying to do is establish it with the least amount of red tape . H . Fink : I think we have more control over it this way , too , because maybe the next guy might want to change those lots . D . Payne : If another fellow is going to buy the land and doesn ' t know the footage is going to be changed . Be Wright : He knows they are going to be changed and is aware of the problem with New York State Gas and Electric . H . Fink : Will be be living in there ? Be Wright : No . H . Fink ; But he ' ll put a house on every lot ? Be Wright : That ' s right . F . Wilson : I don ' t see how you ' re going to lose control , Harvey , because the guy will have to have it approved regardless . H . Fink : He can come in for another subdivision the next night and change it . I feel the way it is proposed right now is as ideal as it can be . There ' s one lot well over 250 ft . These are ideal lot sizes . F . Wilson : Can you grant that exception without a public hearing ? H . Fink : Yes , we can . We had a public hearing on it and the only thing we would be doing here is granting an exception . G . Totman : We approved a minor subdivision on a 4 pkot subdivision . He sold one of those . That won ' t be in this other here and he can legally sell this one but all he ' s doing is asking us to let him add 50 ft . so we say O . K . go ahead and do it and the guy can build and then Bob is saying he will re - submit to us for his change from a minor to a major subdivision and then we can go ahead . In the past there was no opposition from anybody so apparently no ill feelings in the area and what he is proposing now is , in my estimation , even making the land more valuable and heading in the direction we are talking about from a planning standpoint so I would say it looks to me like it ' s just making something better that we have already done . Do you see it that way , Don ? D,. Payne : Yes , H . Fink : That ' s the way I see it . F . Wilson : If we give him permission to change the size of the lot , when you do go ahead , it wouldn ' t include that lot ? G . Totman : He has to redraw this for the 250 ft . - - he ' ll resubmit these to us for - 3 - G . Totman : the requested change but that will let this buyer here go ahead and start building his house . C . Twigg : That ' s what he is interested in now . H . Fink : Yes . G . Totman : Basically that ' s what we ' re looking for , - - to increase our tax base in the town . C . Twigg : Where is this tract at ? H . Fink : Old Stage Road and Chipmans Corners . Do I hear a motion that we can accept that ? F . Wilson : Do you have your reports from the Health Department ? B . Wright : Yes , G . Totman : If we went ahead and approved this , you still have to come back for a major and we meet the second and fourth Thursdays every month . H . Fink : I do have one request though , Bob , that ' s that 2 weeks from tonight you resubmit . B . Wright : I can submit and you can hold the public hearing at that time . H . Fink : We do need some exceptions on major subdivisions - - so there are no road provisions or playground provisions in this case , don ' t have any problems of overhead lines , so those will be omitted . The grade would be another thing but I don ' t think we would be that concerned with it at this moment . Maybe we could do that , Bob , if that ' s acceptable to everyone . Maybe you should come in and submit it at the next meeting . G . Totman : That will give us time to consult with our attorney . The next meeting is October 23rd , H . Fink : 2 weeks from tonight submit that and we ' ll set a public hearing for the 13th of November , alright ? B . Wright : Alright . H . Fink : Why don ' t you explain the topography of the land to them? Mr . Wright did so . H . Fink : I ' d like to hear a motion from the floor . C . Twigg : If this is the way , and I don ' t quite understand , I ' m not too familiar with everything , but if this is an easy way out , - - H .. Fink : It ' s not an easy way out , it ' s the best way out . It ' s what we ' re looking for . The goal of the Planning Board is to have subdivisions like this one right here . F . Wilson : It would set a good example for others . H . Fink : That area could be possible tax money , - - behind the church , - - they own some - 4 - H . Fink : land there and will be selling some land off there . Some discussion was held on this by H . Fink , F . Wilson and others . H . Fink : I ' ll entertain a motion . C . Twigg : I said that I would like to make the motion that we approve it that way . H . Fink : 0 . K . , to let Mr . Wright sell off Lot No . 2 as was approved in a minor subdivision and to come back within 2 weeks with an application for a major subdivision on the sale of the tract , with the exception of the 50 foot additional frontage . D . Payne : I second the motion . The motion was carried unanimously . H . Fink : Alright , Bob , now in a case like this , you would have to deed that out to him , wouldn ' t you? B . Wright : I ' ll have to deed that separately . F . Wilson : No reason to check with Ben before he does anything? H . Fink : I think we ' re within our bounds . (Mr . Wright left the meeting at this point . ) H . Fink : We ' d better get the ball rolling real quick on this moratorium . Time is passing and we really haven ' t done anything . We have to come up with a few ideas . Unfortunately there are only 4 of us here tonight , there are 2 missing , Roger and Joe . G . Totman : May I make a suggestion? What would you think about inviting , at a regular board meeting , inviting somebody from the Virgil Planning Board to explain how their ordinance is and bring the ordinance along so we can go over it . I would also like to invite Homer and Cortlandville and have a general discussion on how theirs are working . This would give us a better idea of what we ' ll be talking about . H . Fink : That ' s a good suggestion , George . G . Totman : I ' m sure the one from Cortlandville will come . I don ' t think we ought to make up something that will turn everbody out of town but I do think we should come up with some places where people can live that can ' t afford conventional homes . H . Fink : 0 . K . , George , I would like to ask you to see to that , possibly it would be better to have just one . G . Totman : They might all learn from it , too , if we did have more than one . C . Twigg : How many nights do we have ? G . Totman : If we hear a guy from Homer , one from Virgil and one from Cortlandville , then they can learn a lot , too . 5 - H : Fink : I would like to ask you to contact these people , George , and have them come to our meeting two weeks from tonight . D . Payne : That ' s when Bob is coming . H . Fink : Just to present his plans , - - the public hearing won ' t be until November . Also tell each man that you ' re going to invite the others also . G . Totman : Maybe they won ' t even come . H . Fink : Try to make that 2 weeks from tonight . G . Totman : I ' ll do that if you get all your planning board members here . H . Fink : We set up the second and fourth Thursdays of the month for our meetings so mark them on your calendars . G . Totman : Without something like that to work on , you can sit here all night and discuss it and get nowhere . C . Twigg : That ' s right . G . Totman : Also we have to ask the Town Board how much money we can have to hire a planner after we get all the information we can get . H . Fink : Before we get to that stage , possibly we should get hold , of `Tom-, _Neider - korn , - -maybe the night of the public hearing , - - get someone like him to give us a few ideas . Will you take care of that , too , George ? I think that we could get some information from him and I feel these are a couple of routes we have to go . And the next thing , - - any personal suggestions , - - I ' d like to have them so we can have a basis to work from . C . Twigg : Personally , I don ' t think that we should throw trailers out completely , as far as saying alright we ' re zoning trailers out of the Town of Groton , because there ' s no future in that where we have areas where there are already trailers in and they are not good for anything else . We might just as well , - - G . Totman : Use up the available land that ' s left . H . Fink : One thing if we banned them we could be in court . I talked to Dana the other day , - - I want to change the subject for a minute . Joe Hora or Ben have never been in touch with me since the last meeting . Now they have put a trailer in on Sharpstein Road in the last three weeks . F . Wilson : Yes , I saw it . H . Fink : The guy got a permit when Joe Hora submitted his map and talked to you - - the lot where you turn in off Lansing Road , second lot on the right , there ' s a lot with a mobile home on the corner . The next lot he said he wanted to sell , - - that was part of the subdivision , is that correct ? F . Wilson : Yes , H . Fink : That man got the permit on August 8 , 1975 , That lot had to be sold . - 6 - F . Wilson : Why did Mr . Hora sit there and say he wanted to sell it , if it was already sold ? C . Twigg : He had some on the left that were sold . F . Wilson : He said he could even break that up and make 4 lots out of it . H . Fink : There have been 5 or 6 applications since we put in the moratorium . The thing is on that , there have been at least 6 to 8 permits , I ' m not quite sure , - - that have been issued since we originally asked for the moratorium . Some discussion was held on this by all present . H . Fink : What do we have to do to get approval from the Town Board to have Tom Neiderkorn come out ? G . Totman : Hicks is out there , ask him . Mr . Fink asked Mr . Dow and came back and informed everyone that there is $ 1 , 000 allowed for the project . However if anyone is hired will have to wait for their money until January 1976 . G . Totman : 0 . K . , - - I ' ll call Tom . First of all we want him to come for us to nitpick him and ask for help in the right direction . We ' ll ask him on a per call basis . If we can get these guys to come from the various towns for another meeting and talk about it with them will have him at the third meeting . H . Fink : I think it would depend on how well you do on getting these people from Virgil , Homer and so on . F . Wilson : If you only end up with one it will still be a help . You might ask them each to send over copies of their ordinances if they can ' t make it . G . Totman : I have one from Homer . F . Wilson : As Cecil suggested it might be an idea to pick out some areas and zone them if you want to call it that . H . Fink : That could be a possible way . Let ' s see what these people have to say specifically . That will give us some information we might use . Keep thinking about it , - - for example maybe over on Old Stage Road , where that $ 40 , 000 home is being builf ' wouldn ' t want a park across the road from there . More discussion was held on this by all present . H . Fink : Two things I think we should do if we are going to be of any value to any- body . We have to come up with a plan and we have to also stress when we do come back to the Town Board that we want enforcement . D . Payne : They have been told that for 4 years . H . Fink : We ' re going to have to change things . 7 - Further discussion was held on this by all present . Mr . Totman moved that the meeting be adjourned . The motion was seconded by Mr . Wilson and carried , The meeting adjourned at 9 : 50 Pe M , Respec fully submitted , Jo Bphine Bell - 8 - I