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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1975-07-09 v GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING Held at the Town Hall Groton , New York Wednesday , July 9 , 1975 8 * 15 P . M . H . Fink - Chairman* B ,; . Bucko - Town Attorney* G . Totman - Vice -Chairman* D . Snell - Zoning Enforcement Officer* R . Gleason* A . Clark - Ithaca Journal* D . Payne* G . Hoy - Chairman - Zoning Board of Appeals* F . Wilson F . Fouts - Member of Zoning Board of Appeals* J . Laicona* J . Bell - Recording Clerk C . TwiggIc C . Stanley Riese* * - Denotes those present . H . Fink : Here are the minutes of the June llth meeting and also the June 26th one , I need a motion to approve them . Mr . Totman made a motion that these be approved as written which was seconded by J . Laicona and carried . H . Fink : Is there any other business to be brought up at this time ? G . Totman : I think we should note , Harvey , that at our last meeting we voted to bring up to the Town Board the question of the moratorium that we voted for and that Harvey and I did attend the Town Board meeting last Monday night and made the presentation requesting the Town Board to consider putting a moratorium on the placement of any new trailers in the Town and it was their decision to table it until the August meeting to give them more time to study it . I would like to see the Planning Board members attend that August meeting so if there are any questions in the Town Board ' s mind as to our feelings and also to help field any questions of the Town Board or people that might come either for or against the proposition . H . Fink : Very good . I would recommend that . I believe it ' s on August 4th , the first Monday in that month . If it is possible please attend , - - 8 PM is the time of their regular meeting , - -we should be present . Just for the record I would like to welcome Joe as a new member of our Planning Board and hope that through some given time of your own that you will be an asset to the Town and to the Board and I ' m sure you will be . You came in at a tough time , so I wish you good luck ! J . Laicona : Thank you . G . Totman : Gordon , are you and Floyd familiar with what we ' re talking about ? � . Hoy : Yes . G . ". otman : So we ' re not talking about something you ' re not familiar with . G . Hd�_ . We ' ve heard of it , yes . % H , Fink : the process of selling it ? S . Riese: This piece I want to sell is one piece , and this piece I want to sell is one piece , and this one is sold , - - this is Don ' s place there . This was sold a long time ago , H , Fink : This is the one after 1972 , - - that ' s 2 , - - this is 3 and this is 4 , - -his intention at the moment is to sell his home on this lot and wants to keep this piece at the present time until someone comes along - - would rhather not sell all at one time . This - would create a minor subdivision on parcel number 2 but he has broken it this way . I ' ve talked to him before tonight . It ' s a big breakdown , - - parcel 3 is 24 . 7 acres . S . Riese: 1 have one guy who ' s interested in that one , Be Bucko : This is going to be wasted land ? S . Riese : This is a creek , - - it comes through there . H . Fink : It ' s wasted now because of the way the home is set and already has some - one living there . Be Bucko : I didn ' t know about the creek . S . Riese : This would go with this , H . Fink : The only way that could become practical is if Mr . Don Payne would sell some road frontage . D . Payne : Can ' t distrub the creek anyways . H . Fink : Are there any other questions , - -anything anyone can think of at this moment ? A . Clark : Does this one lot comply with the zoning ordinance ? Be Bucko : 150 x 225 , more than 30 , 000 sq . ft . This is agricultural so zoning ordinance provides for 30 , 000 sq . ft , but if the Health Department rules it could be 20 , 000 sq . ft . (Mr . Bucko read aloud the regulation from the zoning ordinance . ) A . Clark : I thought it was 30 , 000 , - - I just wasn ' t sure . H . Fink : To give our new members some insight into this , - - it ' s up to 4 parcels , - - fifth parcel would be a major subdivision which is a little bit more involved , Be Bucko : This hasn ' t got health department approval . For the map to be approved there has to be a statement on there that sewers , water , and so forth - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - that has to be done by a licensed engineer . D . Payne : Just a statement on the maps signed by a licensed engineer . Some discussion was held on this by Be Bucko , H . Fink and others . S . Riese : Who do I get that from? Be Bucko : A licensed engineer , H . Fink : Who is your surveyor , - - Green ? - 6 - , So Riese : Yes , B, , Bucko : He ' s a licensed surveyor , - -not a licensed engineer . Mott is . Go Totman : Where does he live ? Be Bucko : Dryden , - - but he won ' t put it on Mel Green ' s maps . He should be able to get a licensed engineer he works - with to put it on for you . H . Fink : That statement , Ben , is just a statement , isn ' t it ? Be Bucko : It ' s just a statement but when it ' s approved and the map filed in the County Clerk ' s office people are put on notice that it meets County Health regulations . S . Riese : Who should I get hold of ? Be Bucko : Green , and have him get a licensed engineer put the statement on there . H . Fink : Any further questions9 maybe we could proceed with this pending , - - have to have a public hearing and prior to the public hearing Mr . Riese would have the note made of such statement by a licensed engineer . G . Totmans As long as it ' s. on there before the public hearing . S . Riese : On all 5 copies ? H . Fink : I ' ll give you the 5 back and have it put on them . G . Totman : It ' ll be cheaper for you that way . A . Clark : You are not planning on doing any building on them ? S . Riese : No . R . Gleason : Do you have any restrictions , - -you are going to place on the property ? So Riese : Not that I know of . R . Gleason : In other words , anybody can put anything they want on there ? Be Bucko : You ' re not putting any restrictions on there about only houses of $ 20 , 000 or so , - - H . Fink : He ' s not required to do that . R . Gleason : I know , - - I just wondered . J . Laicona : Do we make a motion on this or , - - H . Fink : We don ' t take any action on this at this time , - - our next step is a public hearing and then possibly right after the hearing we can make our decision but we do have 45 days to make our decision . This , more or less , is to give the Planning Board insight as to his intentions . G . Totman : It ' s also for us to make sure he has all the necessary papers to warrant a public hearing . The reason we are explaining this , Stan , is we have 2 new members on our Board tonight . S . Riese : I ' m learning , too . 7 - H , Fink : 0 . K . , - - let ' s set a date that we could , - - D . Payne : At the Public Hearing we would need the statement on the mAps , - - shouldn ' t have any problem there . He Fink : A date , - - 2 weeks from today the 23rd would be alright , - - G . Totman : If you have it on a Wednesday , Wilson cannot make it . G . Totman : What ' s a good night for you , - -any night of the week ? J . Laicona : Any night . CO Twigg0 Any night . H : Fink : George , - - is the 22nd alright , - - Tuesday , - - at 8 P . M . 0 . K . - - any further questions of Mr . Riese ? Hearing no questions , - -why don ' t you take these maps with you , Mr . Riese , and drop them back off to me and we ' ll see you on the 22nd at 8 P . M . (Mr . Riese left the meeting at this time . ) H ;. Fink : Looking through my files I found some papers in here and when I read them didn ' t know who had made them up and then at the bottom it says GLT , - - I presume it stands for George Totman , - - and I found some good notes so would like to pass them out especially to our new members . ( "What does a Planning Board Member Do ? " ) I ' m asking you to look through these things . There ' s a lot of overtime , unpaid . I feel I ' ve devoted quite a bit of time to this recently and , for Joe and Cecil , I hope the General Development Book and Land Subdivision book will help you , - - the development book tells us what our goals should be and a little bit about the Town and what they expected and , what they expected didn ' t happen , - - they predicted no growth until 1980 and we have had more subdivision hearings in the last 6 months , - - so the growth is coming and to be effective I think if you get an insight into this it will help out quite a bit , not only for yourselves but for the work you do on the Board . Like the views you brought up tonight , Joe , - - very good . Now , unless there ' s any other business , - - J . Laicona : I have a question which I ' ll preface with a statement . As you get to know me , I ask a lot of dumb questions , - - H . Fink : I think this keeps everybody else ' s thinking caps moving . J . Laicona : What are we going to do in terms of preparing for the August 4th meeting ? H . Fink : 0 . K . , - -George brought up a point of talking to Cortlandville and Homer . Also , maybe if we spent a few hours at the County Assessor ' s office . I ' m not sure if we can answer all the questions in our own minds that will make it - - - - - - - - - - - - if our decision is right or wrong , and to answer the Town Board ' s questions but let ' s hope we can convince ourselves and the people that are there . D . Payne : Ben mentioned a chart , - - - 8 - H . Fink : George , would you call Frank Liguori . He has a chart . It ' s a breakdown , - - - we would be very interested in , - - of the homes and mobile homes . Frank did this up himself through their records . G . Totman : 0 . K . H . Fink : Any other suggestions . R . Gleason : I ' ve been thinking and you know I ' m not gungho for this thing , but if it ' s going to be done right I think you are going to have to do more than just this because I can ' t envision any of the members of the Town Board digging up these figures . Hicks might but can ' t envision the rest of them doing it . We have to get some figures and I brought it up last time I was concerned about what George says about mobile homes coming in and some of them will be there but we ' re giving opinions , not facts , but a lot of trailers in my opinion are people here already who need a place to live and this sort of thing and so it isn ' t all - - - - - - the question to be answered in my mind is if they are going to say no trailers or mobile homes or are they going to say they are going to be put in parks - - there ' s more to it than strictly figures about growth , values and so on , - -what are people going to live in ? I think you ' ll find some refer - ence in our original plan on income in Groton , - - they just aren ' t going to build $ 40 , 000 homes , - -would be hard pressed to build $ 20 , 000 ones . If this question isn ' t answered you ' re going to have a crowC in here:. H . Fink : We ' re going to have a crowd , regardless . Don , can you answer that question or add to it ? D . Payne : No , I don ' t really know how to answer it . H . Fink : I find myself stammering a little bit , - - if we look at it 100% that way we ought to scratch the idea , - -way you are saying it is we ' re putting a hard - ship on people by doing this because the Town of Groton:P .ddesfi ' t have people with the means to build $40 , 000 homes . A . Clark : But by the same token you are going to raise your own taxes , - - everybody sitting around the table that owns property . G . Totman : Those people you are worrying about , - - over a period of 5 , 10 or 25 years , if we allow this sort of thing to keep happening , that is happening , we will be putting those people into a financial trap that will have to be dealt with decade by decade . As you said earlier , if they can ' t get into other places and have to go here will have to provide homes for people who can ' t afford higher priced homes and I think it ' s true but it ' s not good for the Town of Groton because they will demand the same services other people demand but not providing the tax base for it . R . Gleason : I agree with you but there are really two problems and you are going to have to face one against the other one and if these people can ' t have a place to put a mobile home or some kind of housing , we are going to be faced with the other alternative , - - and that is public housing , - - maybe that ' s alright but I think we should make that decision . H . Fink : We can ' t make that decision . We ' re not saying that . I don ' t know what decision will be until all the facts are in . D . Payne : This is the reason for suggesting the moratorium , - - to give us a chance - 9 - D . Payne : to come up with recommendations for the Town Board which - would be of benefit to both the Town and the people . It ' s only to give everybody a chance to sit and take a good close look at things and see whem we are going and to come up with what ' s best for everybody . R . Gleason : I think Joe is right , though , the Town Board is going to say why should we have a moratorium . Why shouldn ' t we just go ahead and study it . H . Fink : We could still go ahead with the plans we have in front of us but at the end of our time if we find out the present ordinance is away off , - -mean- while people know what . we are doing or what our intentions are and there will be an influx of people , - - R . Gleason : 0 . K . The point I ' m trying to make is we should have more facts and figures and somebody - - I think , Harvey you should appoint one or two or three people to come in and have something more than just an opinion . I think you should designate who is to be responsible for it . J . Laicona : That sounds practical . H . Fink : 0 . K . , - - I ' ve asked George to get this information from Frank Liguori , - - what other information - would you like to have ? G . Hoy : Dana is going to give you information from 1972 on . D . Payne : Another thing that would be helpful would be if Frank Liguori has it , - - what is the influx of mobile homes in other towns in the county . H . Fink : Do we consider the County ' s cluster housing ? Mr . Liguori gave detailed information to all present on the County ' s future plans . G . Hoy : You have already got one trailer park in the process in the Village , - - don ' t you think that will filter a lot out of the county and will there be any other problems for any more ? H . Fink : A man was at one of our meetings who is deeply involved in mobile homes and parks and he said to put a mobile home park in - the Town of Groton isn ' t the most feasible place to put it . They can go anywhere but if there are restrictions than he could afford to invest money to make a park because the customers that get mobile homes from him could move into the park but in the Town of Groton since they can go anywheres - - well until the ordinance is changed he isn ' t interested . Some discussion was held on this by H . Fink , G . Hoy and others . A . Clark : Dryden , except for the 2 zones , is in the same situation we are . G . Totman : But they do have areas set aside where they are not allowed . A . Clark : One residential and one manufacturing . G . Totman : And the ones that are restricted in that area , - - there are fabulous homes going up there . More discussion was held on this by G . Totman , J . Laicona and others . 10 - R . Gleason : I think you ought to ask Liguori how this all ties into his future plans for development . G . Totman : Joe , Frank Liguori is the Tompkins County Planner , - -he is proposing to the County to accept a plan whereby the ordinances , - - - if the County Board Supervisors accept his plans , - - then he ' ll go back to the local towns and ask them to change their ordinances to get in tune with the County plan . For one thing , - - any subdivision 7 units or greater be close to public sewer and water , not out in the country . He is trying to direct growth in a pattern between Groton going towards Ithaca - - but subdivisions right near here could grow with sewer line out that way rather than say at Peruville Corners where it would have to be brought out . He had 4 different plans he showed and , to my knowledge , every Town he went to in the County has approved his plan . R . Gleason : There is something you should mention . G . Totman : That doesn ' t concern mobile homes per se . R . Gleason : Yes it does , - -we want to have good homes but also this other part of where they are going to live , - - G . Totmant This plan still doesn ' t say you can ' t build a home or mobile home anywheres in Town . R . Gleason : I grant you that but you have to consider more than tax base . G . Hoy : I couldn ' t think of any way of controlling it before but you mentioned it and when there are places you could put trailers then you will get better homes . R . Gleason : Whey you do this , you have to have an area where there can be low class housing . G . Totman : I tried to do that when we made the ordinance , - - I was shot down . Some discussion was held on this by R . Gleason , G . Totman and others . J . Laicona : I think the issue obviously needs study . The problem is we should be able to present to the Board facts that show that it needs some study . Now if George can bring in Mr . Liguori ' s reports and can get Dana ' s reports , I guess we can see them on the 22nd ? H . Fink : We can see Dana ' s , - - there ' s no problem , and maybe Frank would have his by then , too . J . Laicona : So that we could see what we have on the 22nd and still have 2 more weeks to make other plans . H . Fink : 0 . K. If all of us are there it wouldn ' t hurt at all . After our hear - ing we ' ll work on this again and present it . I think we should present as many simple facts as - we can and go from there because we are a Board of 7 here doesn ' t mean the Board of 5 - 6 will come up with the same ideas we have . - 11 - G . Totman : Bear one thing in mind , - - it ' s their meeting , not ours . If people are there to question the Town Board members , this is where it ' s important to have these facts in case they also ask questions of us . J . Laicona : Also bring in a couple of charts . More discussion was held on this by all present . D . Payne made a motion that the meeting adjourn which was seconded by R . Gleason and motion carried . The meeting adjourned at 9940 P . M . Respectfully submitted , 00 &C Jose hine Bell - 12 -