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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1975-06-26 TOWN OF GROTON PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARINGS AND REGULAR MEETING Held in the Town Hall Groton , New York Thursday , June 26 , 1975 H . Fink - Chairman* J . Bell - Recording Clerk* G . Totman - Vice -Chairman* D . Chase* D . Snell - Zoning Enforcement Officer* R . Gleason* D . Payne B . Bucko — Town Attorney* G . LePage and members of her family* - Denotes those present . Mr . Fink called the public hearing to order at 8 : 05 PM regarding Mrs . LePage ' s request for a minor subdivision and he read aloud the legal notice which was published in the official newspaper the Journal and Courier on June 18 , 1975 , a copy of which is attached and made a part of these minutes . H . Fink : Are there any questions ? I don ' t see anybody here , - - are all these people with you , Mrs . LePage ? G . LePage : Yes , H . Fink : Hearing no questions I will now bring this public hearing to a close . Well , Mrs . LePage , seeing no one has come in favor or opposition to this , we cannot , as a Board , make a decision tonight . I have notified the County and am waiting for their answer so we cannot vote on it at this time . G . LePage : I would like to say that I called Mr . Liguori and he said they were not concerned with subdivisions and so I asked him if he would please expedite his answer . I also called the Conservation Department and neither of these two agencies are concerned if the Board of Health approves . H . Fink : The Board of Health has contacted me . I have written to the Conserva - tion Department and Frank Liguori and by law I have to wait for their replies . G . Totman : If they don ' t respond within 30 days after you sent the letter it ' s automatically approval . H . Fink : I know he isn ' t interested but he still has got to give it to us . G . LePage : Right . G . Totman : That is the only hangup ? H . Fink : We can ' t make any decision because of that . If everything was here we - 1 - H . Fink : could vote on it but because of those reasons will have to delay it and when we get the information I ' ll call a special meeting of the Planning Board and will notify you immediately of our decision . G . Totman : The Cayuga County Planning Board has to give us their approval on another subdivision and we got a letter from them today thanking us for contacting them . H . Fink : They didn ' t say they were in favor or anything . G . LePage : That was the date of your letter ? H . Fink : I believe it was the 16th . R . Gleason : I take it they have no objections . G . LePage : After you do approve it can Mr . Snell give me verbal approval , - - I bought a trailer from Taggon -Wagon , can I get approval to move it to the lot and leave it there until we get approval , - -before I get a building permit , can I get approval ? H . Fink : You ' ll have to speak to Mr . Snell . D . Snell : As long as no one is living in it , it ' s alright . R . Gleason : You just park it , - - that ' s all . G . LePage : Thank you . At this time Mrs . LePage and others left . At 8 : 20 P . M . B . Bucko , the Town Attorney arrived . Mrs . LePage came back also . B . Bucko : I would like to state for the record that my office received a call from Frank Liguori , Chairman of the County Planning Board and he said a letter was sent out today that they do not object to the LePage subdivision and suggested that hopefully the lots could be larger . G . LePage : I explained to him and told him there would be no useful land , it ' s cliff . H . Fink : You do understand that upon approval when you put a mobile home on there that before you can move another one on there you would have to survey and subdivide each lot and deed each lot over . G . LePage : Each lot will be deeded over . H . Fink : Before you get a building permit . G . LePage : Right , we ' re prepared to do that . H . Fink : If you do that will speed up the process . How about the Conservation Department ? B . Bucko : They have not replied . I don ' t think they are objecting . G . LePage : I spoke to them . Their only concern is that . we do not disturb the bed or bank of the creek . 2 - H . Fink : 0 . K . We can possibly take a vote on that tonight . G . LePage : I called the Ithaca one and was told no longer in Ithaca but on Fisher Avenue , Be Bucko : I think there should be something from them on record , just to protect you . G . LePage : I ' ll phone them again in the morning . Be Bucko : Tell them to send a letter to the Planning Board , - - just for your pro - tection . We � were amazed when they were involved in the Lewbro one . H . Fink : We have written to them and would like a reply so if you can speed that up . G . LePage : The minute I hear will call my lawyer and will draw the deeds up immediately . Be Bucko : One other thing , - - the Planning Board , - -you . will have to file the linen copy of the map with the County Clerk ' s office and will have to write on it "Approved by the Groton Town Planning Board" before it will become effective . Otherwise it ' s not valid . G . LePage : I can ' t start anything until its approved . Be Bucko : You still can ' t build until it ' s been surveyed . G . LePage : It has been done . Be Bucko : You take each lot and survey it . G . Totman : He pulls each lot off the map and surveys it . G . LePage : A surveyed map for each lot must accompany deed to the County Clerk , Be Bucko : Right . G . LePage : Do you have my phone number ? It ' s 844 - 9758 . 0 . K . , - - thank you again . G . Totman : Good night . Readjourned at 8 : 28 P . M . (Mr . and Mrs . Ernest Stinehour appeared for their 8 : 30 P . M . hearing ) H . Fink : I will now open up the 8 : 30 Public Hearing for Mr . and Mrs . Stinehour ' s subdivision and will read the legal notice aloud which was published in the official newspaper , the Journal and Courier , on June 18 , 1975 . (Mr . Fink read the notice aloud and a copy of it is attached hereto and made a part of these minutes . ) H . Fink : I don ' t see any members of the general public here so will now close this public hearing . Be Bucko : You have survey of that , - - so their map is all in order , then ? H . Fink : That ' s the map , - - that ' s the one I mailed to County Clerk . Be Bucko : A note for the record , - - a letter from Cayuga County Planning Board was - 3 - B . Bucko : received . Also should note that the notice and a copy of the survey were mailed to Cayuga County Planning Board . on the 16th of June and received a letter back dated June 19th advising that they had received the copy of the application of Ernest Stinehour for approval of a minor subdivision located adjacent to the Cayuga County line and thanking us for bringing this to their attention . ( This letter is attached to these minutes and made a part hereof ) . H . Fink : Any other questions from the Board ? R . Gleason : We didn ' t have to notify Tompkins County ? H . Fink : No . B . Bucko : No . H . Fink : No , this is it . Mr . Stinehour I will notify you of the Board ' s decision . B . Bucko : When the Board decides on this and if they approve it , you will have to file a copy of this map in the Tompkins County Clerk ' s office and before that the Planning Board will have to write on the map that they approved it on such and such a date . You ' ll get a copy of it from them . E . Stinehour : When will I know ? B . Bucko : Whenever the Board has a meeting . They have up to 45 days but I don ' t think they will take that long to decide . Harvey Fink will let you know . This public hearing closed at 25 to 9 PM . Mr . Fink opened up the regular meeting of the Planning Board at 20 to 9 P . M. H . Fink : Don asked a question on this Cayuga County letter . As far as we ' re concerned , does this letter suffice ? B . Bucko : Yes , if they were going to question it , they would have questioned it . D . Chase : That is considered an answer ? B . Bucko : Yes , that is considered an answer . H . Fink : It ' s a reply . I don ' t see any problems . He ' s made restrictions on the lots which I ' m sure the Board wholeheartedly agrees with and I think he is trying to do it so he doesn ' t hurt the growth of the Town or himself and if you would like to take a vote on it . G . Totman : From what he explained here , - - if he puts restrictions on these deeds like he ' s going to , - - I think that ' s what the whole thing is about , - - to put a good tax base in the Town . I would like to see more of this . R . Gleason : That should be written right into our approval . B . Bucko : It "s on his application and that will be on the deeds . It ' s on the record . - 4 - H . Fink : When we notify him of our approval , we will say subject to restrictions on the application and also notify Dana on these . D . Chase : . Whose opinion is the appropriate type building based on ? Be Bucko : On Ernie Stinehour ' s . H . Fink : If they come , - - Be Bucko : The building permit has to state they are going to pay $ 20 , 000 to build it . G . Totman : If they don ' t , it can be torn down . Be Bucko : When anybody puts in deed restrictions like that , nobody is going to buy the lot unless they plan to build that type . R . Gleason : Is the restriction $ 20 , 000 ? That isn ' t much of a house today . Just a great big trailer size . H . Fink : It says no trailers and no businesses . G . Totman : Back to the Stinehours , I .would move we pass it as presented . R . Gleason : I second the motion . H . Fink : All in favor ? The motion was passed unanimously . G . Totman : Now , we go back to LePage . As I understand it Grace LePage ' s application , - - everything is legal , as far as we ' re concerned , except we don ' t have a reply from the Conservation Department because her property borders a used stream . Rather than have to hold a special meeting just waiting for their letter , I would move for approval of her application for a subdivision . contingent upon a favorable reply from the Conservation Department , and we now have an oral statement from Frank Liguori which will be backed up by a letter that they do not object but would like to see larger lots . H . Fink : I have a motion , do I hear a second ? R . Gleason : I second the motion . H . Fink : All in favor ? The motion was passed unanimously . Be Bucko : Since this is a meeting of the Planning Board , I would like to have you recommend to the Town of Groton , so they can consider it at their next meeting , July 7th , to amend the Zoning Ordinance Section 601 , activities in areas , under 601 . 14 and to add , - - to have it read as follows : "Mobile Home park , mobile home subdivisions , and or sales when developed in accordance with the mobile home ordinance will come under agricultural land use with special permit . " H . Fink : Any discussion on this ? R . Gleason : This would not apply in the other 2 zones ? Be Bucko : Mobile home parks and sales are allowed only in agricultural by special permit . Now the Grace LePage situation , - - she is developing a mobile - 5 - Bo Bucko : home subdivision and there ' s no place for a mobile home subdivision and that is where you are caught in this particular situation so since mobile home parks are in agricultural only by special permits , mobile home sub - divisions should be in the agricultural zone but individual ones can be anywhere . D . Chase : 0 . K. G . Totman : 0 . K . R . Gleason : The only thing is in Grace LePage ' s case if she had never said she was going to have mobile homes in there and had simply sold those , - - H . Fink : We have a place for mobile home parks and mobile homes but not for several mobile homes in a low intensity zone so this would clarify that . If we approve it as Ben suggests . Some discussion was held on this by all present . G . Totman : We have in the past been asked by the Town Board to study various things and part of our job is to look at the ordinance from time to time and see if it needs change . We are supposed to look at inequities and re - commend changes to the Town Board and I realize that it ' s a job upon our shoulders but I would like to see our board recognize the fact we have problems in our town , - - all these mobile homes coming in . At the present time the majority of our town is agricultural and they are allowed to go anywhere in our town in agricultural with no restrictions per se . I would like to have the planning board do an in - depth study even if :we have to ask the town board for legal help from a regular planner , or whatever , but , in the meantime , I would like Ben Bucko to ask the Town Board to put a year ' s moratorium on stopping the installation or place - ment of mobile homes in the Town of Groton , - - it ' s legal . R . Gleason : It ' s legal but I think you ' ll have a hornets ' nest on your heads . B . Bucko : The Town Board does have the authority to put a moratorium on because the Planning Board will undertake a study as to where they will be restricted and so on . G . Totman : And it doesn ' t apply to parks . D . Chase : But you would have trouble with that . B . Bucko : If the Town Board wants to do it , let them do it , but then the Planning Board would have to get to work and come up with a comprehensive plan for the Town as to where they should go , - - in fact the suggestion that I have because of what Roger said , - -what should be done is that mobile home subdivisions should be taken right out of the mobile home ordinance because the intent , - -nobody is going to tell you the intent , - - 601 . 14 should say individual mobile homes , mobile home parks and /or sales , should be under agricultural for the present . But the Board has been talking about what he has been talking about that they be restricted only to mobile home parks . R . Gleason : The only thing , - - - I can understand what George is saying and I ' m not un - sympathetic to it yet I think there ' s one fallacy , - -he said mobile homes coming in , - - grant you I haven ' t made a survey but the ones I have observed - - a good percentage of them I know 9Te local people . - 6 - G . Totman : What I ' m saying , - - to clarify this , - - I would very strongly recommend that if we pass this and ask the Town Board for this in our recommendation , - - I would say that any of them that are here now they won ' t be replaced or sold to anyone else , - -would have to recognize the fact it ' s here and could be sold as such . B . Bucko : One thing , the Town Board , - - I strongly feel about this , - - our tax base is going to be hurt if we keep letting individual trailers come in and we are going to be paying a lot of money . G . Totman : You have to look to the future . R . Gleason : True but if we don ' t allow mobile homes , can put them in a trailer park , - - I think a lot of people don ' t want to go into parks but you are going to have to develop parks and also public housing . B . Bucko : You ' re coming up with senior citizens ' housing and VanBenschoten and Wilson are going to put a 100 unit trailer park in . If there are 100 more on individual lots , you can imagine the tax base , - - zilch ! R . Gleason : I ' ve watched the trailers and I think a lot of these people put up a trailer , improve the lot , add on to the trailer and gradually change it over to a house . B . Bucko : That isn ' t true , is it ? D . Snell : No . When I was an assessor we rewrote the value of trailers every 3 years decreased it . B . Bucko : Now are supposed to depreciate 10% and in 10 years only assess the lot . Some discussion was held on this by all present . G . Totman : We ' re only doing this for a year , - - to give us time to go back through the ordinance and study the use and maybe can allow them in certain areas and make a little more sense to what we have and would like to very strongly urge you to read the ordinances of other towns and go from that and maybe ask for professional help . H . Fink : George has a motion on the floor . G . Totman : I make a motion that the Planning Board recommend to the Town Board that they put a moratorium on the placement of any new mobile homes in the Town of Groton for a year in order to give the Planning Board and the Town Board time to restudy the ordinance and come up with a workable ordinance that would be acceptable and of benefit to the Town within the comprehensive plan . H . Fink : There ' s a motion on the floor . Do I hear a second ? Since there ' s no second , - - - B . Bucko : You should get it before the Town Board and let them decide whether they are going to do it or not . The Town Board can , - - it ' s on them . H . Fink : I can ' t second it , can I ? The thing I believe , - - I agree with some of the things Roger and Don have said and I agree with George somewhat and I think this last subdivision we approved possibly helps show that we need an ordinance that isn ' t as liberal as we have now and maybe a 7 - H . Fink : year ' s moratorium seems stringent but I think .we have to do something . Be Bucko : You can ' t ignore the problems . G . Totman : It ' s going to get worse , - -not better . H . Fink : Around us Towns have strict regulations and we haven ' t and what happens when our Town doesn ' t enforce it , - - it all happens here . More discussion was held on this by all present . R . Gleason : I hate to second the motion the way you put it out . I do feel the Town Board should do something , - - - Be Bucko : The only thing to do , - - - in a sense you don ' t agree with it , - - - second the motion , get it approved but state your opinions to the Town Board so they can consider whether to grant the moratorium because the Planning Board can ' t grant it . R . Gleason : There are two things , - - I go along . with the moratorium but think we should just say moratorium , - - let the Town Board say what the length of time for it should be and , second , that they should take into consideration , - - - Be Bucko : Suggest to them they declare a moratorium for a period to be determined by them and the Planning Board will make recommendations for the final ordinance and final approval but there should be a moratorium . H . Fink : I think what Roger is trying to say is say someone has emergency con- ditions and need to put a trailer in . R . Gleason : Supposing somebody ' s house burns down and they need housing , or I get sick and need someone to help me farm and need a trailer for them to live in , - - B . Bucko : The motion should be that the Town Board declare a moratorium on any new trailers coming into the Town for a period to be determined by the Town Board to give them time to study the entire problem . How- ever the moratorium would have the following exceptions : anyone that has applied for a building permit already , - - anyone that wants to replace an existing trailer and in special cases , - - emergencies and hardship cases . More discussion was held on this by all present . D . Chase : Nobody ' s asked my opinion , - - I would like some reasons for this . As far as I ' m concerned would like more good sound reasons why we are recommending this , - - maybe these things need changing but I think this warrants some discussion . Be Bucko : Another reason , - - the more you have individual trailers around the town in different locations , - -you will have no subdivisions . You even heard Grace LePage say she would put 2 trailers down there but if she had 2 across from her red house on Lick Street she would fight it to the nth degree . G . Totman : We ' re not getting an influx of $ 30 , 000 to $ 40 , 000 homes like Cortland- ville and if you talk to real estate agents a lot say there ' s no protection for them from mobile homes going in across from where they might put one in . I look at it as the nature of our game in planning . - 8 Me D . Chase : We spent 80 hours on a study and nobody did a damn thing about it , - - - we recommended it to the Town Board and . it ' s still sitting there . Some discussion was held on this by B . Bucko , D . Chase , G . Totman and others . R . Gleason : We do have to recognize that people do have to have housing and some can ' t afford to build a $ 30 , 000 to $40 , 000 house . B . Bucko : On the other hand to get a 3 - 4 acre lot have to pay $ 3 , 000 to $4 , 000 and $ 14 , 000 to $ 15 , 000 for a mobile home . More discussion was held on this by all present . G . Totman : I made a motion for a moratorium and Roger seconded the motion with amendment on time period as made by Ben Bucko and I now call for a vote . H . Fink : Just want to add one more thing , - -Don , if . we ' re way off base the Town Board will let us know . As a matter of fact if we agree on this when it ' s proposed to the Town Board I want the whole Planning Board here at the proposal and at that time , - - - D . Chase : The full Planning Board , - -us three people ? H . Fink : So you can explain your views . D . Chase : I guess you ' re saying I ' m unreasonable in my request for more facts and reasons as to why we want to do this . H . Fink : It ' s not unreasonable but I have a motion on the floor and a second . B . Bucko : If you feel that we make a motion to table until - - - H . Fink : 0 . K . I have a motion and second on the floor , - -all in favor ? D . Chase : I move to table the motion on the floor . H . Fink : There ' s a motion to table the amended motion on the floor , - - do I hear a second on the table ? Being no second , we now vote on the amended motion . All in favor : R . Gleason : Aye G . Totman : Aye H . Fink : Aye D . Chase : Nay . (Motion carried ) . B . Bucko : I would liketo make a suggestion to the Planning Board , - - that they request a report from the County Assessor as to the policy on assessing mobile homes in the Town of Groton and in the County and , after getting that policy , have them state as to how they are en- forcing or implementing that policy . H . Fink : How long would it take on that request to the County ? B . Bucko : If you write them right now you ' ll have it by July 7th . R . Gleason : May I make a suggestion , - - to give us values and what is happening , - - might just as well have it . - 9 - G . Totman : I found the County Assessment Office very cooperative . B . Bucko : And ask them in addition to tell you how they assess trailers , find out how many have been assessed in this Town and whether assessment has been decreased . R . Gleason : Have them send us a complete breakdown , - - a summary - -must have that here somewhere but it might not be the latest . H . Fink : Our next meeting will be held on July 9th , Wednesday night , at 8 P . M . The meeting . adjourned at 10 to 10 P . M. Res ectfully submitted , I( ''dA, • � Josephine Bell - 10 -