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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1975-04-29 SPECIAL PLANNING BOARD MEETING CONVENED AT 8 * 20 P . M . APRIL 29 , 1975 . PRESENT • H . Fink - Chairman D . Snell - Zoning Board Officer G . Totman - Vice -Chairman R . Gleason D . Payne J . Bell - Recording Clerk Jean and Ernest Stinehour . G . Totman : Mr . Stinehour called me the other night and talked about a proposed minor subdivision and just to lay the groundwork I did tell him on the phone that the Town Board is consider - ing changing a minor from 2 to 3 and it ' s possible they • might move on it at the main meeting , - -right Dana ? D . Snell : I think so . G . Totman : Then he also talked some about later on he might want to sell more land , first of all on the Salt Road and then on the Stauber Road later on . If it ran into 4 would have to go through the whole thing all over again and go through another public hearing and I talked to him on the phone and advised him to apply for a major one right from the start and suggested he come down tonight and let us hear - what he has in mind and maybe we could give him some sense of direction or we might give him some as to what he proposes . Mr . Totman introduced Mr . and Mrs . Stinehour to all present . E . Stinehour : We figured , - - I don ' t know , - -we don ' t want to go in too heavily until we know what we are going to do , - -we have it in a real estate man ' s hands and he told us had quite a few that wanted to buy lots but we want to make sure it ' s responsible and the lots are big enough and that we have a right of way into the back of the property so I think if we sell any lots there would be restrictions put into the deeds so they can ' t start any junkyards or anything like that . • H . Fink : Do you have , - -roughly how many feet of road frontage - would you be interested in selling , - -would it be 2 or 10 or 5 , - - I ' m - 3 - H . Fink : talking about both the Salt Road and Stauber Road . • If you put too many lots on road frontage and block yourself off from the back you could box yourself in where you could never move again and then if it was land that could be de - veloped later you couldn ' t do it . E . Stinehour : This is what I want to do , - -make sure I have access to the back of the property . G . Totman : You live right in here ? E . Stinehour : I ' ll draw it out better for you . This is the Salt Road and my line is here , - -my house is in here like this , - - this is Stauber Road right here . There ' s a hill here and I ' d want to make sure I had a right of way in here and one here to get in and out and up here somewhere I would have to keep a right of way and of course would always have this little place here that I would never sell nothing here . H . Fink : Do you have any idea of the road frontage ? E . Stinehour : Pretty near a mile road frontage all the way down . H . Fink : So if it ' s fairly equal you might have half a mile on the Salt Road ? • E . Stinehour : I don ' t think so , - -more on Stauber Road , R . Gleason : You figure 2 lots to the corner ? E . Stinehour : No more than that . G . Totman : You have to have 150 ft for each road frontage . E . Stinehour : I ' d say I have 1800 ft . on the Salt Road , G . Totman : Getting into your back property , you sell 300 ft . deep across the front and then go and sell down through here , - -well , if it were me I ' d rather , - - instead of calling it a right of way - - keep a piece of land that you won ' t sell and make it wide enough so if somebody wanted to buy land back here to subdivide more then if it was that - wide then maybe you wouldn,'..t devaluate the land back here . E . Stinehour : What would be your specifications on say keeping how much land , - - would 150 ft . be too much ? R . Gleason : A 50 to 60 ft . right of way . H . Fink : Is this tillable land ? • E . Stinehour : Some of it is but it ' s not too good a land , - - it ' s been misused . R . Gleason : It is wet ? E . Stinehour : Some of it . - 4 - • E . Stinehour : If you kept 200 ft . there , you would have room for a road . G . Totman : That ' s right . E . Stinehour : How much road frontage do you need on property ? G . Totman : The minimum is 150 ft . R . Gleason : A lot of times the Health Department will tell you how much . G . Totman : We require a minimum of 150 ft . and so does the Health De - partment if if there ' s not good drainage they require more . D . Payne : You might contact the County Health Department and ask them what your limitations are . G . Totman : They would come up and do the perk test for you . J . Stinehour : We had that done at our house three years ago . R . Gleason : What did you have to put in ? J . Stinehour : A 1 , 000 gallon tank and 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 50 foot . He said he was really surprised there was such good drainage down there . • R . Gleason : You have a lot sold , - -where would that be located ? J . Stinehour : That ' s on Stauber Road . It ' s right after you break over the top of the hill . Right in there . They are going to put a nice house in there but they are going to start building pretty soon . What we really want to do is get . an idea of what we have to do . G . Totman : You do have this book ? J . Stinehour : Yes . R . Gleason : Probably one of the things you will have to do is to have it surveyed . G . Totman : Youtwill have to have a survey of the whole thing . E . Stinehour : I own 82 acres . G . Totman : Is it all on one deed ? E . Stinehour : Yes . H . Fink : You will have to survey the whole 82 acres . • R . Gleason : They find you 4 - 5 points and a description of that . That is necessary because then you would have to tie in these other lots with something . 5 - • E . Stinehour ; I don ' t follow you , - - tying in the other lots ? R . Gleason : You sold a lot here , - - O . K . we don ' t know where it is . H . Fink : You have to sketch that in there . R . Gleason : We have to have a map with it sketched in showing where it is located * H . Fink : Here ' s a sample that was just used on a subdivision . (Mr . Fink and Mr . Totma.n explained it to Mr . and Mrs . Stinehour ) . J . Stinehour : In other words , our land was originally rectangle , - -we sold a piece here that would have to be taken off . E . Stinehour : I didn ' t want to have it surveyed twice . R . Gleason : You would have a survey of the whole parcel which then you would have and after that you would only have to survey each piece out . You could have the whole thing surveyed out but no , - -unless you know that you are going to sell them . G . Totman : You ' re going to have to have the whole thing surveyed anyways . • Then , each time you sell another lot you can go back to the original map and mark off on it where the next lot is . R . Gleason : If you don ' t do that , you may end up down here somewhere , - - there have to be some points made . You almost have to identify those now . It might turn out that you are going to have to have every lot 160 ft . to make it come out . H . Fink : It ' s for your protection and also for the people that buy lots . J . Stinehour : So what you are saying is that we ought to have it surveyed first . E . Stinehour : What about the mini one ? G . Totman : It depends on what you are going to do , - - a minor will let you sell 3 lots . J . Stinehour : 0 . K . we have sold one , does that mean - we can sell 2 more ? G . Totman : If you apply for a minor . E . Stinehour : Can you apply for a mini and any time later can have a major one ? • D . Payne : You can do this but before you can sell the fourth lot you have to go for a major subdivision . E . Stinehour : Would I still have to have it surveyed ? D . Payne : Yes . 6 - • G . Totman : It costs you $ 20 . 00 to apply for a subdivision , if you apply for a minor now and sales are good and in the middle of the summer you want to sell the fourth or fifth lot you can ' t do it , - -you have to apply for a major one , put up another fee and have another public hearing and it would be another month or 6 weeks before it could go through . D . Payne : The major subdivision takes a little longer usually . If you went for a minor one and later for a major one would want to make sure you allowed enough time to have it processed be- fore you got around to selling it . R . Gleason : What ' s the cost of a major one ? D . Payne : $ 25 . 00 plus so much per lot . You have to pay it for the lots you are requesting at that time . J . Stinehour : Plus $ 10 . 00 for whatever lot you are developing at that time . G . Totman : It ' s $ 10 . 00 per lot on top of the $ 25 . 00 . J . Stinehour : If you get your surveying done and had it all marked off the way you wanted to , you only have to pay $ 25 . 00 plus say 4 lots , plus $ 10 . 00 for each one of those lots ? • D . Payne : $ 65 . 00 . R . Gleason : You only have to pay $ 10 . 00 each time . D . Snell : I take the $ 25 . 00 for their subdivision and then whoever buys the lot has to pay $ 10 . 00 for building on the lot . E . Stinehour : You pay the $ 10 . 00 when you are going to develop the lot . G . Totman : When you apply for a major and you have 10 lots proposed , it would be $ 125 . 00 , - - $ 25 . 00 for the application and $ 10 . 00 for each lot . R . Gleason : I think the question they are asking is if they go for a major do they have to show those now ? D . Payne : If they proposed 4 lots and then next year want to sell 3 more lots , - - E . Stinehour : In other words , if I go to a major subdivision this means I pay one fee of $ 25 . 00 and that ' s all if I sell the whole farm into lots . D . Payne : No , you have to pay $ 10 . 00 for every lot . • Some discussion was held on this by E . Stinehour , G . Totman , D . Payne and others . G . Totman : Say he has approval for a major subdivision but next year 7 - G . Totman : wants to sell 4 more lots , does he just come in and pay • the $40 . 00 or does he have to apply all over again ? E . Stinehour : That ' s what I ' m asking . G . Totman : My answer to that question is , - -we ' ll get the answer and give it to you . I think we need to get a legal opinion on it . I think what we ought to do , Harvey , is to get in touch with the Town Attorney and call you right back . That hasn ' t happened to us yet . Tentatively what he is proposing doesn ' t seem to be too much out of order . By reading this you ' ll see what you have to have but we should get a legal interpretation on - what you have asked and get back to you . We should know in a day or two . R . Gleason : Another thing you should consider is getting in touch with the Health Department . If the land is wet you might have to go to larger lots , - - in some cases you might have to go to larger lot sizes and that is something that a surveyor could make some recommendations about . J . Stinehour : We kind of thought of 200 road frontage and 300 ft . back . E . Stinehour : That ' s what the real estate man said these people wanted , - - • 300 deep and 200 ft . wide . J . Stinehour : So we figured to keep all of them approximately the same so when you want to come in with roads there ' s no problem . R . Gleason : You really ought• to find out , - -you said there are wet spots , - - short of having municipal sewers , - -might not be able to develop small lots in it so might better decide on large lots . G . Totman : Have you got prospective buyers for a couple of lots now ? If so it might be to your benefit to put in for a minor subdivison right now . E . Stinehour : I think maybe that is - what this real estate man has in mind right now . He has a man who would like to put a log cabin in - -you know the kind you buy . R . Gleason : They are looking in terms of larger lots . You might be strict with pieces that wouldn ' t pass the perk test . J . Stinehour : I think there ' s only one spot on the Stauber Road that would be wet . R . Gleason ; It ' s not necessarily springs but what ' s underneath the clay . • J . Stinehour : So , in other words you think we ought to have the Health Department up there . G . Totman : Even for a minor subdivision you have to submit the Health - 8 - • G . Totman : Department ' s approval on the parcel of lands you are selling . You ought to do that . anyways and in the meantime we ' ll check and get an answer to your question and , hopefully , by the end of the week will get back to you so you ' ll know what to expect on a major subdivision and know which you want to go for but , in the meantime , you have to have health department approval of the land , Some discussion was held on the health department requirements by all . Mr . Max Barber ' s proposed sub - division was used for an example of the difficulties that arise , J . Stinehour : Well , I guess the best thing would be to have the health department come up , R . Gleason : I would say you should have the health department and also a surveyor and you ' d better get a good lawyer . E . Stinehour : The best time to get hold of us would be 8 - 9 o ' clock at night . G . Totman : Mr . Fink will be calling you , H . Fink : Get the survey out of the way and contact the health department • and have them come down and I ' ll definitely get an answer for your question . E . Stinehour : How long does it take to go through for a subdivision ? H . Fink : About a month or so for a minor . G . Totman : Once you submit all the papers that it tells you to in this book to us then we have to publish it in the Journal and Courier and it comes out on a Tuesday so if you were here to - night asking for one we would put it in next Tuesday ' s paper and we couldn ' t hold a hearing until 5 days after that . H . Fink : And then we have 45 days to decide . But if everything seems to be in order and nobody complains against it , it doesn ' t take very long at all . (Mr . and Mrs . Stinehour left the meeting at this time . ) H . Fink : Are there any other things we ought to talk about ? D . Payne : We did get an answer , - - this came up at some other subdivision about that and what Ben told us , was that once they applied for a major subdivision then they could come back as they sold lots . • Some discussion was held on this by all present . G . Totman : If the County planning goes through , - - almost everywhere he ' s gone has received support for his No . 4 plan . If my memory serves 9 - G . Totman : me clearly all the towns would be asked to change their ordinances to not allow more than 7 parcels within a • subdivision unless it was directly connected to the area designated as possibility for growth area which would mean out there would have to hold it down to 6 or 7 be - cause of future sewage problems and so forth . H . Fink : In the meantime , with this County Plan in the back of our minds , what do you do in a case like this ? Some discussion was held on this by all present . H . Fink : As we go back into the master plan where do you want that intensity of homes ? G . Totman : Around the village . H . Fink : They try to keep developments -within range of the village but - when we start off on the north east part of the town we might be - - - R . Gleason : If you are going to have rural housing , - - some of that area could be houses as against agricultural because it really isn ' t agricultural right there . H . Fink : Is that in the agricultural district ? • R . Gleason : I think so . H . Fink : That could be a factor , too . R . Gleason : I lean towards the idea of allowing clusters within the agricultural district . H . Fink : But isn ' t it our job to follow the master plan ? R . Gleason : That isn ' t against it . H . Fink : If you think ahead to say 10 homes , - - Some discussion was held on this by all . H . Fink : We should hold regular meetings and I ' d like to set a date for our next meeting . It will be at 8 P . M . on May 27th . D . Payne made a motion that the meeting be adjourned and it - was seconded by R . Gleason and the motion carried . The meeting adjourned at 9 : 15 P . M . Respectfully submitted , Josephine Bell - 10 - • PUBLIC HEARING HELD AT THE TOWN HALL , GROTON , NEW YORK TUESDAY , APRIL 29 , 1975 8 : 00 P . M . H . Fink , Chairman , Planning Board G . Totman - Vice -Chairman Don Payne* R . Gleason%k Z . Kane D . Chase F . Scheffler J . Bell - Recording Secretary* D . Snell - Zoning Officer* Robert Totman - (Representing D . McKee ) * No members of the general public showed up . - Denotes those present , Mr . Fink read aloud the Notice of the Public Hearing regarding a subdivision at Cortland - • McLean Road for F . D . McKee which was published in the Journal and Courier on April 21 , 1975 . G . Totman : Do you have anything you would like to say , Bob ? R . Totman : We are asking for a subdivision to put two modular homes on cellars with one car garages under each of them . That ' s it , G . Totman : Do you know where this is , Roger ? Do you know where the Locke farm is on the Cortland -Homer Road ? H . Fink : Do you know where Dick Haines lives ? It ' s right past the green barn , - -right past that . R . Gleason : Yes . G . Totman : I understand Dana has been up and looked it over , D . Snell : I ' ve been past there . G . Totman : And you don ' t see any problems with it ? H . Fink : I ' ve driven by there and in contrast to the surrounding properties it seems to blend in , in my opinion , to the environment . There are other mobile homes there and it would seem to fit the area . D . Snell : The lot size is O . K . and road frontage is O . K . and I have given him one permit . - 1 - r • H . Fink : I have copies of the health department and sewage disposal • plans . • R . Gleason : You are using a filter ? R . Totman : Sand filters . R . Gleason : Is that a common driveway ? R . Totman : Yes , - - one driveway that will separate to each side . D . Payne : Just one driveway . G . Totman : It ' s not a common driveway , - - the 2 driveways abutt against each other . D . Payne : Will it be a fairly wide driveway ? R . Totman : Yes . R . Gleason : You have two 25 ft . driveways and , roughly , by the looks of things , - - R . Totman : Right . D . Snell : Which one did he put up ? • R . Totman : This is the one we have the permit for . • R . Gleason : Is that all that he owns ? G . Totman : Yes , - -he bought 300 ft . across front by 220 ft . deep . R . Gleason : From Mildred Nikula ? G . Totman : Right . She owns the rest of the farm . R . Gleason : 0 . K . H . Fink : Any further questions ? If there are no further questions , - - being no further questions this public hearing is now closed . ( The hearing was closed at 8 : 15 P . M . ) H . Fink : Mr . Totman we will notify you of our decision within 45 days . I will draft a letter to you within that time but will call you on the telephone and let you know as soon as we decide here tonight so you should know shortly . R . Totman : 0 . K . • D . Payne : Would there be any objections , since no one came , if no ob - • jections from the Board , couldn ' t we have a vote right now ? - 2 - I • G . Totman : I move that . we pass the proposed subdivision by Mr . McKee and that he be notified in writing of our decision . R . Gleason ;- I second the motion . H . Fink : All in favor - - those opposed ? The ayes have it , it ' s passed unanimously .