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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1975-04-15 V GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING HELD AT THE TOWN HALL , GROTON , NEW YORK Tuesday , April 15 , 1975 7 * 30 P . M . PRESENT : G . Totman , Chairman - * D . Payne D . Chase* H . Fink * F . Scheffler* Z . Kane* R . Gleason D,o Snell - Zoning Enforcement Officer* J . Bell - Recording Secretary* * - Denotes those present G . Totman ; I asked everybody to be here at 7 : 30 and we have a quorum so we are going to meet . These things I just passed out are the minutes that were taken at our last get together which nobody showed up at . This is what Frank Liguori presented and its the County ' s presentation to the various towns for a County Master Plan , Since Frank has presented this to us , and you ' ll notice Town and Village Board members were present , the Town Board has gone on record as favoring the plan for urban sprawl . Frank will be back to work with the individual planning boards to go in this direction so we will be hearing more on this . I think after you read it , we can discuss it at another meeting . We should have election of officers tonight and , after the public hearing which is scheduled for 8 PM , - - say around 9 PM we have another man coming in to present plans for another subdivision . Maybe the public hearing will get over early so we will have some time , - - I don ' t know , - -but each year in April we elect officers so I really think right now we should elect a chairman , vice -chairman , corresponding secretary , - - Z . Kane : I can ' t do that this year . G . Totman ; It ' s really my preference NOT to be chairman , - -would like to know what you people feel about it , - - does anybody want to be chairman ? If so , speak up . - - - How do you want to do it ? D . Payne ; I would like to make a nomination , - - I would like to nominate Harvey Fink . H . Fink : Can I put one in. ? G . Totman : Do you want to be chairman ? - 1 - H . Fink : As youngest member of the Planning Board , I don ' t know if it would be fair . G . Totman : I ' ll make a suggestion here . If nobody wants it , - - it ' s no job any - body wants , - - I ' ll either be chairman , - - Harvey ' s really interested , - - he really is , - - I would just as soon be chairman with Harvey as vice - chairman or the other way around . F . Scheffler : Fight it out between you ! G . Totman : He ' s active and interested and I could miss a meeting now and then and he could take over , - -either way . G . Totman : Harvey Fink has been nominated for chairman . F . Scheffler : I make a motion that the polls be closed and the secretary cast one ballot . D . Payne : I second the motion . Motion carried and Harvey Fink was elected Chairman for 1975 - 76 . G . Totman : May we have nominations for vice - chairman ? F . Scheffler : I nominate George Totman , H . Fink : I make a motion that the polls be closed and the secretary cast one ballot . D . Chase : I second the motion . Motion carried and George Totman was elected vice - chairman for 1975 - 76 . G . Totman : The public hearing tonight is on the Lewbro property . This land right here and the land in the far right corner is land that Mr . Brown retained last year with some ideas in mind he might use it for . Since then he ' s found out the north part of the land doesn ' t have enough frontage to do anything with so has decided to sell it to the Lewbro Company . This land here where the house is is being purchased by John Lewis and wife to live there so in order to do it they had to apply for a minor subdivision . I see no objections from my standpoint and have talked to Mr . Bucko and everything seems to be in order so we will hold the public hearing to listen to any objections . F . Scheffler : Why does he have to apply for subdivision ? G . Totman : Because has already sold one parcel of land . G . Totman : Another thing , the Town Board is pondering a study for changing the requirements of the subdivision regulations for minor subdivisions from 2 to 3 with the thought in mind that lots of times farmer has a piece of land might sell one to somebody and then want to sell - 2 - G . Totman : a chunk to his son and if they change it to 3 he wouldn ' t have to apply for a subdivision . I will now recess this meeting until after the public hearing . ( The meeting was recessed at 7 : 55 PM) PUBLIC HEARING HELD BY THE TOWN PLANNING BOARD OF THE TOWN OF GROTON AT THE TOWN HALL , GROTON , N . Y . TUESDAY EVENING APRIL 15 , 1975 . PRESENT : G . Totman D . Payne D . Chase He Fink F . Scheffler Z . Kane D . Snell J . Bell Fred Wilson Mr . and Mrs . John Lewis Mr . Kane Mr . and Mrs . Julian Brown G . Totman : It ' s now 8 PM so we will proceed with the Public Hearing . First I will read the notice that was in the paper . (Mr . Totman read the notice which is attached hereto and made a part of these official minutes . ) G . Totman : Mr . Brown , would you like to spell out what you are asking for ? What are your plans ? J . Brown ; I want to sell the rest of the land there and the house up there .retain the piece south of the driveway . G . Totman : Do we have it clear , - - the land north of the property you sold last year which you retained but now you want to sell it to the Lewbro Corporation and the other land where the house is you are planning to sell to Mr . John Lewis and his wife ? J . Brown : Right . G . Totman : 0 . K. Thank you . Are there any questions ? Fred , do you have anything you would like cleared up ? F . Wilson : You have to have permission to sell more than one piece of property or two ? G . Totman : Two or more . F . Wilson : He ' s sold one so far . G . Totman : He ' s sold this one here and now wants to sell 2 more parcels which would bring it into a minor subdivision . F . Wilson : By this action , - - does it set a precedent ? Are they allowed to do Me 3 - F . Wilson : anything there they couldn ' t do before ? G . Totman : No , what happens here is that this parcel of land here on the north side of the property , - -only has 87 ft . frontage which cannot be used for any dwelling unit or anything like that because it doesn ' t have the required frontage , - - if this goes through it would be smart for them to put it into the corporation , - - it doesn ' t have any use otherwise . This land that John Lewis wants to buy , - - if anything else is done to that , - - there ' s 450 ft . road frontage , - - if anything else is done to that land they would have to put in a new application . It - would be a whole new ballgame . Does that answer your question ? Z . Kane : What type of land is that , - - that is being proposed to sell now , - - is it swampy or not ? G . Totman : I ' m not sure . J . Brown : No , it ' s not swampy . H . Fink : Yes , - - it could be tilled . G . Totman : Any more questions from anybody ? If not then , I guess , - - D . Payne : Is Mr . Lewis here ? What is your intention for the land ? J . Lewis : At this particular moment , I don ' t have any plans of any kind for it . I can ' t say that in 4 - 5 years from now , won ' t want to do something with it . It all depends on what happens in this area . Right now have no scheme in the back of my mind except I want to live in the country . D . Payne : Right . J . Lewis : If I own it and live there nobody can say anything about the con - crete plant . G . Totman : Hearing no more questions I will now close the public hearing and what happens now is that the planning board will meet and decide - - by law we have to make our decision in 45 days , - - but there be - ing no objection we will meet for other things this evening and will discuss this at our meeting later this evening . J . Lewis : If I decided 2 years from now that I wanted to sell off or build houses , is that a possibility or not ? G . Totman : With the road frontage you have , you have a possibility or two . D . Snell : How much road frontage does he have ? G . Totman : 450 ft . John , if you are talking a year or two away , we can ' t answer it , - - lots of things can happen in that period of time . We are in the process now of working on the zoning ordinance and making some changes . At the last Town Board meeting they are considering chang - ing the ordinance to make it 3 instead of 2 . On a deal like this right here , it almost seems asinine to have to call a public hearing for something that just should be anyways . The Town Board is thinking of farmers selling one lot from their farm and later on wanting to sell lots to their sons and they would have to submit petitions for - 4 - G . Totman : subdivision so they are thinking of changing it . You can ' t get an answer now on 2 years from now . J . Lewis : If I wanted to do more than 2 lots , would have to apply for a major subdivision ? D . Payne : No , minor . H . Fink : 2 houses on- - great - - -would be a minor , - -we might ask you , - -we ' d ask for a declaration of intent as to what you would plan to do with the rest of the property . G . Totman : What Harvey is saying is , is the back end of the property being blocked off . If you were selling two lots , it would take up 300 ft . will they put a roadway into the other land so it can be used for something else . You don ' t want to see things get boxed in , which sounds odd but it happens . 0 . K . , - - then we ' ll notify you of our decision , Mr . Brown , J . Brown : 0 . K . ( The public hearing adjourned at 8 : 15 P . M . ) GROTON TOWN PLANNING BOARD MEETING RECONVENED AT 8 * 15 P . M . G . Totman : What we are talking about now is the proposed subdivision on the Cortland -McLean Road by Don McKee tonight . He will be here at 9 PM so in the meantime let ' s decide whether we want to grant approval or permission for what Mr . Brown wants to do . F . Scheffler : This - will be sold to two separate people ? G . Totman : Right . It would be my recommendation in approving the request that - we state in the findings that we recommend to the Lewbro Corporation that they include that into their total deed , - - to include this parcel into their total deed . We will have to remind them of the fact that they can ' t build on that parcel . F . Scheffler : Why can ' t they ? D . Payne : It only has 87 ft . frontage . H . Fink : They would have to go for a variance . G . Totman : Any other questions or comments you want to make on this . F . Scheffler : Sell it to them . G . Totman : Does anybody have any feelings as to why ;ae %.shouldn ' t pass it ? Does somebody want to make a motion we approve the proposal as presented ? H . Fink : So moved . D . Payne : I second the motion . 5 - G . Totman : Harvey Fink moved and Don Payne seconded the motion that we accept the subdivision as presented by Julian Brown . All in favor . Ayes : F . Scheffler , D . Payne , D . Chase , H . Fink , Z . Kane , • G . Totman . Opposed : None , G . Totman : That issue , as far as we ' re concerned , is now finished . Harvey I see they are still outside the building , would you like to go and give them our decision . (Mr . Fink did so . ) G . Totman : I have approached the Town Board on the County representative for the Town of Groton on the County Planning Board . Dan Carr is our County representative now and his health is failing anrhe doesn ' t attend very many meetings down there , plus the fact he doesn ' t come to any of our meetings to let us know what is happening down there . Now this proposal was made by the County Planning Board and if we had had a representative of our board on the County Planning Board we would have been up to date on what the County is doing . More and more it will have a great effect on our local Planning Boards knowing what the County plans are . So , with that in mind I talked with the Town Board and asked them to talk with Dan to see if it would be a relief to him to not have to worry about going down there to meetings all the time and told them if we are going to operate right one of our members should be there . I volunteered to accept the job if the position becomes open because it does take time and have to be totally interested and in order for us to function like we should we have to know what they are doing down there and if the proposal they are talking about here , - - that they discussed on March 25th with us , then we have to go back and change our ordinance . Last summer the Town Board asked us to study our ordinance and come up with some recommendations as to the growth patterns to help the Town . We did appoint a committee and they presented a proposal that didn ' t seem to be acceptable to either the Town or the Town Attorney , for various reasons , but they would still like us to do it again and come up with something that would be . I have talked to Frank Liguori , who is the County planner , and he suggested it was a good idea but we should wait until the County accepts one of his plans and then from that plan he would work with us on ours . We don ' t have to do what he tells us but can use his knowledge to get a sense of direction which I thought would be a help to us . A lot of planning boards , like ours , when they are drafting an ordinance , or changing it to meet the changing times , have a professional planner they hire to go over it with them but so long as we don ' t have that would like to take advantage of the County Planning Department ' s help . So that is why I asked the Town to try and have one of us on the County Planning Board . Now has anybody got anything they feel should be brought up to the Planning Board ? Something we should look at or work on , or , whatever ? D . Chase : I don ' t have anything . D . Payne : I have a question . Minor subdivision is involved with 2 or more lots . A person sells a lot one year , the next year he puts a 6 - D . Payne : second lot up for sale . Is he required to go through minor sub - division before he sells it or when he sells it ? H . Fink and G . Totman : Before he sells it . The way I understand it he is in defiance of the ordinance if he sells it before he applies . G . Totman ; If any of us know of any land that is being improperly used in accordance with our ordinance and regulations we should contact Dana Snell and have him check on it . It ' s everybody ' s responsibility to do this , - -by being planners , - - as such , - -we should be interested enough to let Dana know . D . Payne : One , I ' m thinking of , - - in particular , - - not absolutely sure of , - - is Leonard Adams . Now , as I remember , he either sold or gave his son a parcel of land on Route 222 , - - I notice he now has his house up for sale , - - the one he just built . Some discussion was held on this by H . Fink , D . Payne , G . Totman and others . G . Totman : The Planning Board was involved last year , - - through a committee , - - Don Chase , Don Payne and myself , - -with setting up the necessary paper work for studies to procure a TV cable for the Town of Groton . The franchise was let last summer to the Cerrache TV Corporation and since then we have been dealing with Mr . Cerrache trying to get some answer as to the reason why nothing has happened . r Cable was strung last fall all the way from a6A Wm � L - -Road to and in around McLean but it stopped now as I understand it he could run the cable so long as he didn ' t do any hookups until he got approval from the State and the FCC . He finally got the State approval in January but at that time hadn ' t even applied for FCC approval . It was applied for on March 15 , 1975 and takes 3 - 4 months to be approved . Why it was so late , I don ' t understand it . I talked to him , and a lot of people around McLean have been up in the air be - cause it ' s been so long , - - and what put the icing on the cake is that 3 weeks ago he hooked up the trailer park to the cable . The part that was run , - -he came across the cable lines that go directly into the Town of Groton to hook up the Dryden Trailer Park so Mr . Bucko our town attorney contacted him about it and it is a technical point they could hold him on . Z . Kane : You said he came across the cables , - -did he hook up to them ? G . Totman : He can ' t use them in the Town of Groton but can in the Town of Dryden . I talked to Tony and explained the problems of the people in McLean so he -wrote Mr . Dow a letter explaining as to why he is not hooking up for the people in McLean right now so I made copies of that letter and put them in the post office in McLean and , forgive me , Don , didn ' t think of the people in Peruville , - mit might be a good idea to put a copy of that letter there , too . Some discussion was held on the TV cable by all present . 7 - G . Totman : Roger Gleason submitted these for the Planning Board to look at , - - isn ' t a formal presentation because he was not here , - -he wants us to look them over and see what we think of them and when we are ready to meet with him he would come as a land owner rather than a planning board member . So they were looked over and we have his check and his request but he didn ' t have - - -his sketch plan didn ' t include the full parcel of land that he wants to subdivide and so I called him back and told him what he had to do and I think he knew that , - -he didn ' t have full amount because he didn ' t - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - He said he would work on it and when he got ready he would let me know . That was about a month ago . Z . Kane : Is that a major one ? G . Totman : He ' s applying for a minor one . If anybody wants to look at what he presented , that ' s the package . I might add also that Roger has been in contact with Ben Bucko , who has explained to him what he needs , and we are not holding him up , - - he ' s holding himself up right now . G . Totman : Here ' s Don McKee . (Mr . Totman introduced Mr . McKee to everyone present and asked him to present his plans ) D . McKee : I bought one piece of land 300 x 220 ft . from Mildred Nikula , who is Barry Cornell ' s sister , on the McLean Broad , between Cortland and McLean and I want to cut it into two lots and put two module houses on it . I have received a permit for one house but would like to be able to put the two foundations in at the same time . They are . both modulelhouses . I have my sewer permits , copies here for your ..records if you want them . G . Totman : Now if you want us to start the ball rolling , give us a check for $ 20 . 00 . (Mr . McKee gave Mr . Totman the required check) . G . Totman : While Don is here , does everybody know where the land is he is talking about ? D . McKee : It ' s about 1 / 2 mile out of McLean towards Cortland on the right hand side . G . Totman : Just before you get to the trailers • - - - - F . Scheffler : Is it close to Haines ? G . Totman : Quite close to Haines , - - just going towards Cortland from that barn . D . McKee : Barry Cornell has his land , - - gray horse barn , - - it ' s just beyond that . G . Totman : If you look at the map right here would be where that barn is and that barn- - - D . McKee : It ' s about 300 ft . away from it . G . Totman : And across the road is the old Lock house and down aways 1000 ft . from where he is proposing this , - - there are the trailers and the - - - - - - farm is 1000 ft . down and his son J - - - - - has one and Charlie has a mobile home . 8 - H . Fink : Is this , - -you are buying this from Nikula , - - are they cutting this out of some of their other land ? D . McKee : They cut it out of a portion of their farm , - -yes . G . Totman : G . Cornell bought farm and lot from that farm in his sister ' s name . This land is a part of the Lock farm . Like I say- - H . Fink : What is behind that , George ? G . Totman : Open field . Also from this point back there ' s a lot of land still on that farm , - - it ' s not cutting the land up . Z . Kane : Not cutting things up into small pieces , in other words ? G . Totman : Right . Down below past the railroad trakcs is the McLean bog . He ' s proposing 2 modular homes here . It ' s not changing the complexion of the neighborhood because there ' s another one right next to that land . D . McKee : It would be between a $ 28 , 000 to $ 30 , 000 home when it ' s finished . D . Chase : Did you refer to those as modular homes ? D . McKee : Yes . Some discussion .was held on the type of mobile homes he is going to use there . Mr . McKee said one of them even has a fireplace . G . Totman : Now , we have to set a public hearing date . D . McKee : Is there anything else you need now , George ? G . Totman : I think we have everything we need . H . Fink : How about that form in the front of your book ? That request for a subdivision ? G . Totman : If we put in in next week ' s paper , could have the hearing on April 29th . D . McKee : Do I have to be here ? G . Totman : No , as long as you have somebody else represent you . Is the 29th agreeable with everybody ? The rules say we have to have at least 5 days ' notice . H . Fink : That ' s plenty of time . G . Totman : If there ' s no objection will set the public hearing for Tuesday , April 29th at 8 PM . ( Hearing no objections the public hearing will be held on that date and time . ) Z . Kane made a motion that the meeting be adjourned , Don Chase seconded the motion . (Motion carried ) . The meeting adjourned at 9 : 05 P . M. Respectfully submitted , Jo aP hi a Bell 9 -