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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-11-20TOWN OF DRYDEN Planning Board November 20, 2008 Members Present: Barbara Caldwell, Chair, David Weinstein; Joseph Lalley; Megan Whitman; Martin Hatch. Excused: Joseph L aquatra, Jr. Absent: Tom Hatfield Others Present: Mary Ann Suinner, Town Supervisor; Jason Leifer, Town Board; Dan Kwasnowski, Environmental Planner; Kevin Ezell, Code Enforcement Officer; Patty Millard, Recording Secretary; Lawrence Bice, Behan Planning Associates; Public: Nancy Suci, Elsie Gutchess, Jonathan Gutchess, Simon St, St. Laurent, James Kaley, Michael Lane, and Scott Connor. Meeting called to order at 7:00. V Supervisor Summer gave opening remarks and introduced Lawrence Bice from Behan Planning Associates. L Bice from Behan Planning Associates presented an update on the status of the Comprehensive Plan Project — Zoning Rewrite. Project Background: Reviewed some goals from the 1999 Comprehensive Plan that was passed Maintain Current Growth Trends: 73 Preserve Open Space: 86% Accommodate Growth in "Clustered Town of Dryden Survey done prior to starting to write the in 2005. Locations" and/or in Hamlets and Villages: 53% Enhance and Maintain Town Character Revitalize Hamlets and Villages Quality New Growth To�%,n — Landowner Partnership o Establish Expectations and Opportunities o Flexibility and Creativity o Respond to Unique Characteristics of Site o Creating Long -term Value for Landowners and To%.%n o Reducing Cost Barriers ■ Costs to .Developers: • Development Infrastructure • Lengthy Review and Approval Process • Inflexible Zoning and Subdivision Requirements • Costs Passed on to Home Buyers ■ Costs to Communities • Road Maintenance • Services and lnliastructure C PB 11 -20 -2008 Page 2 of 15 • Loss of Community Character Dryden's Current Development Regulations Need Updating to: • Be Consistent with Comprehensive flan • Clarify the Review and Approval Process • Allow for Flexibility and Common Sense • Reduce Cost .Barriers Phase 1: Guidelines — meant to be used in conjunction with zoning regulations • Commercial • Residential Goals for Commercial Guidelines: • Build on Community Character • Long -term Value for Investors, Business Owners and Tovm • Implement Community Vision for Town • Improve Safety Case Scenario: No shared parking or shared curb cuts makes for a less convenient and less safe ingress and egress off of Route 13. Too tall lighting Signage overdose 10 Flashy canopies We want to guide businesses in the directions we feel are appropriate for our town. This area could have 1 or 2 curb cuts instead of 4 with the parking lots connected. Safer and more convenient for patrons with pedestrian access. "Character Areas" • Village/Hamlet • Mixed Use / Medium Density • Rural Highway Corridor There are BUILDh1G BLOCKS listed for each character area. They are not meant to limit, only to illustrate what we would like to see in those areas. Hamlet: • sidewalk • street lights • benches • consistent architectural steles and colors • street trees and planters Mined Use/ Medium Medium Density: • PB 11 -2U -204$ Page 3 of 15 ■ mixed use with internal roadways buyer fl-oin main road + Pedestrian amenities along main road (connect to trails where possible) Rural Highway Corridor, * shared entry trees planted along frontage a naturul bui [ding materia]s and colors a low hedge for visual buffer a consistent setbacks and buffers Goals for Residential Guidelines: • Build on Cornmun1ty Character Long -term Value for Investors, Business Owners and Towrl Implement omynwl.1ty iSlon for 'Town • Provide Options and OJ�p[�rCunities Current Residential Trends; • Mostly outside of the vil II age/ham [et areas • Smaller Scale Projects. larger [ndividual Lots Average sizo oCreccnt lots; nearly 3 acre. Mainly frontage lots; driVeWays on tour roads Average ol� 30 homes per year • FACTORS o Lack of Infrastructure o Health Department Regulations o Cost Barriers for Developers o Deal Estate Market Conditions, Absorption Rates Reviews hone built from 1 800 — 2006 on town neap. Discussed trends and changes would irnpact- Allowing 1'() r a Mix of Residential Choices and Environments, Tolern Comprehensive Plan, • Areas o f higher density Development balanced with lower density areas Example shown using a property at Irish Settlement and Gard Road Agricultural Conservation Subdivision * Small scale (b lots) ■ Shared fan» lrecreatio,,al areas for residents Majority of land o�%med in cornmon {possibly a Homeowner's Association) PH 13-20-2008 Page 4 of IS • Preserves large buffer area from roads ;ay • Modestly scaled private road `-Valuing'° Development Properties 111 c?]Z,�ervatlon Subdivisions Sell for % to 15% Higher • Faster Absorption Tate for Conservation Lots; o Conser'vallon Lot; 9 months o C'onveral oncrf L. )t: ] 7 months Mohamed, R. (200 6) ::The Ecorlontics of Con Subdivisions: Price Preijriurns. Improvement O.qS. and Absorption Rates'' Urban .'Affairs Rc.vie %VL Phased SmatI Lot S ubdivision Providcs €tbiIity Fier phased sinalI scale development LU-nd.,s curb cuts Limits effects to view shed • Continues to provide Iarge lot -For prirnary Iandowilier • Small soled private roads or shared drivteways Less Focus on Lilt Size, More on Layout + private Road RedUecs COStS Less Developmcnt on Town load Frontage • More F1 ex ibiIity for Town and Lain dovkrners Questions, A — . }audience, P � Planning Board or Dryden Star' A: You haven't mentioned affordable housing, 1'; The idea is that some of these things will help lower the cost to the developer, which �r i11 ultimately lower the cost to the h(�meowner when bayine a home_ There could even be multi- family hiarnes where appropriate, A: In that Virginia Iayo %ut that you showed there, hove much is it costing property owners in a layout like. that to maintain aprivatc road, 31 or more acres ofprivate. ltuid. and aren't you g()ing to get pet) ple s ay) ng; "1 pay the same #axes to the town; but my neighbor lives on a toV&M road and gets pIom ed and salted and paved. I donet have that over here, and I still have to pay all this extra out of my pocket for my private rm1d_ P. That's something to think abognt. if you go to that wt� bsite, they have all thesc activities that afparently cover their I-1 OA costs_ There is some agricultural land in the property_ They sell produce and lease some of it Glut for farirtirtg. That's not alway4, going to be the case. There are going to be Lome extra cos ts, 1. think what ge -ts balanced out, though, is the dual its of the place . it's riot a new cancept. There are malty place, around the country where they have 140A and a 1a# of times they are places that have a little extra character or quality that people giant. This is just another opt ion out there. A: I #h111k you °re going to get people moving in to those and they re going to live there for a xvhIIe and the» thcy're gci ng to L2ay, " Yeah, we're here now. Btit we want the town sere ices now_ We warm it to become a town road-" 0 PH E l- 2U -2DOS Page 5 of 15 P; You have to craft your regulations to protect the town from that. I-IOAs have to be crafted in a w•ay that makes that not an option. I t ink developers will have to feel the market to see if these are the types of places people want to live in. They don't all have to be HOAs. You can also take the land that's preserved, and put a conservation easement on it, and it could .just be part of people's parcels and be wiId land .There are a] I kinds of options_ A: Who does the town expect to sponsor the cost? The developer to make money and get out or the ultimate homeowners Ghat are going to be longy-term residents? What is the constituency that you've got to look forward to? P: It's a little bit of both. If you have a cul-de-sac development that`s 8 miles away fron, the town garage, and the town truck has to dnive back and forth for that one street to be sen+iced, I t can be a real drain on the tows }'s budget overal 1, In a way, it's trying to 'make the town government be a little more streamlined, a little more efficient, That is €u real problem_ The idea is to make this option available Bind accessible to the "Town Board and the PIawiIlig Board. A: What I'm not bearing in this presentation is any nod toward the economics of the plans or the thoughts. P; I think the 7�Orjing and the guidelines can orrly do so much. The vial-ket and what people want and ayek+illing to pay for; we're just laying out samer}tions, I don't think you're going to turn around tomorrow and see 5000 pri %fate roads. When we get to the coninor, what we're looking at in working with the towFn is to really allow quite a bit of status quo for a while. it°]I give people the ability to do a number of frontage iotsto a certain point, acid then at that point, it'll say, ok, you can't just completely do fvntage, now you have to do something a little more thouFlit otat. There are plen(}+ o #`towns that have a lot of shared driveways and private roads. '1 "hc oppns�t is ha +in a zillion driveways that the town has to plow past as they plow the roads. There is ajWays going to be a cost somewhere. P; I think the truth of it 1`or the new homei)wner 1s the fact that this whole plan encompasses lots 01: choices, There are solve. people who would prefer not to live on the highx ?vay %VIth its trafyic, and so forth, so the conservation development with its little cul -de -sac is an option, and the price you pay is having to maintain your own little cul -de -sac. There's also; il" you take Yellow Barn Ruud, for example, which the town extended over the hill at some c:o]Isiderable cost to acccmirnodate not very many houses in that area. (unintelligible) dike the strip development scenario that you did. e did this when I was work-ino M t]je county — we. incorporated our CIS, we did a little thing like that and it showed exactly what you're saying, The other thing is that when our env91ronmental rnanagernent areas were put together by the EMC, , there was a concern that that may impact land values negatively. In fact, comments that we've received is that it has enhanced laid values. People. prefer to live near a location that isn't likely to be extensively developed, I think there is a lot of merit i n die way this is laved (mt, Tt gives you plenty of different options. Places in Lansing have Homeowner Asso01a.tloll5, for example, it's not uneom.moll, necessarily, around ]sere, particularly as you get in to higher cost development type situations. P; 1 think it's about options, You do hear the occasional horror story about Homeovener Associations, but I think over the years, there are pretty strict requirements that have to be cc omplied Vvith at the state level in�hW they get set up. P: One of the things that the Planning Board did talk- about with a private road and private 0 driveways was to use those as kind of bridge mechanism. To Icave enough width there so that PB 11 -20 -2008 Page 6 of 15 it could be a road eventually once enough houses got on it. Maybe with only 2 or 3 houses, you have a private driveway; but you leave enough width to accommodate a town road, and you can consider it becoming a town road once you get enough houses on the road to justify it. A: Each of those homeowners is going to be paying more tax money because you split it up — each one pays less tax now, but you split it up and each one builds a house and you end up with a bigger tax base. If you're looking at the cost basis to support the town, additional houses means a plus to the tax base. Maybe not as much as a business, but it depends what services they utilize. P: Depending on the property, the town could reserve that area and say, look, private road now, but let's preserve that option down the road and maybe it could become an official tovV\i1 road if there's going to be more development coming off here. Again, the current development patterns in the town are fairly low. The challenge was, how do you do design guidelines and zoning that yields a good end result when the process of getting there is so scattered and fragmented. How do you make it add up to something good over time? That's what the Planning Board and 1, together, struggled to try to fix something that would try to tit that pattern in Dryden. Zoning is set up too so that if there is more development or something large scale someday, it anticipates that, but a lot it is trying to customize the zoning guidelines to this fairly small chocolate block development that happens in the town. A: Have ,you considered the fact that sometimes it happens so often and adds to the tax rolls that the major thoroughfares get clogged up with driveways and access on to 13 is a very good example right now, but if one were to — T don't quite know what the options might be in terms of zoning and the rules on this — but if one were to designate certain major or minor thoroughfares with certain kinds of restrictions that would allow less curb cuts. l know on a state road, you're going to run in to the DOT on that one, but on local roads, county roads, is it possible to have jurisdiction to limit the number of curb cuts, which would then promote this more internal development that you're suggesting. P: That is a good lead in to the next part of the presentation. There's a detailed answer and there's a more general answer. Let's see how far we get in to the next part and you'll get an answer to that. Phase 11: Zoning and Subdivision • Amend to reflect the Comprehensive Plan • Reflect today's "best practices" • Improve organization and usability • Build- offand incorporate principles from the Design Guidelines • Still a work in progress, plenty of time for input and feedback • User Friendly items like o Use and Dimensional Tables o Updated and/or Improved Definitions o Clear Processes o Coordinated with Design Guidelines The updated zoning isn't even drafted yet. There are pieces of it we've been looking at, and the design guidelines are pretty much done, we're just tweaking them, but that's one of the reasons 0 PB H w20=2 ON Page 7 of 15 the Planning Board wanted to have another meeting now, — so that we could get feedback and make sure you're 11nvolved in the process before We get it all drafted up. New Zoming Districts — wliat kinds of places do we want to create? • RR — Rural Res o Maximize Flexibility IOC" Agricultural Uses o Ag- Oriented Businesses (beyond typically permitted accessory uses) o �Resideniial: Single and Two - Family Homes C) Sensitivity to gig Uses • A = lural Agricultural o Rural - Residential Character o Single and tw•o- family home predominate o Flexible Design Standards o Agriculture o Similar Dcnsity & Character to Areas of Ellis HoIlow, + V — Conservation -Lower Density residential o Rural &Natural Character o bower Density Residential, Agriculture • N1 — Neighborhood Residential (Suburbarn Residential in Comp Plan) o Neighborhood — scaled hear vIIlages and hamlets o Relatively Small area of tower o 'fakes pressure off rural areas and farms "Floating Zone" Dependent on Infrastructure and loca t ion o Mix of Housing Types o Parks Integrated with'Neighborhoods More Public Recreation Facilities , 63% wanted from Survey A Tfthey're going to put a road in, the town could determine that they also have to put in sidewalks to connect these areas because that's one of the things that reaIly detracts Front creating a neighborhoA — pedestrian access, P, The Comp Plan actually talks about a variety — an overall density of I ike 4 dwelling units per acre in this area_ Within that area there could be a variety for things like more af~I'ordable Housing close to transit. In a way, maybe it's good that the Inlllastructure isn't there nova'. 'hat gives the town the ability to judge these projects on theirmeiit and see If1his floating zone concept is like — come in with a good proposal, A: A lot of these plans, it looks like you're separating a lot of the things that people would go to like a store. It's hard when you've totally removed these things from residential so that people can walk. '`here is some opportunity if you Iook at what 13 is and where that trailer Nrk is dowrn nearNYSEG— you see people walking nut there, but there is no good 1rnliastructure for those people to actually get to those places. They have to go and use those stores, but there's nothing nice to make it walkable, That° s some of the big pro blen,_ if you conce- ntrate to fewer residential, the problem is that you're only going to get a few people walking from house to house, maybe a bit of it, unless there is somewhere to congregate. We need that idea of a corn 1n unity. In Etna. we have it because ol� the post price; people walk down to the post ol1Ijcc. That realty is the place that people do walk because it's a short distance. That's what builds the PR 11 -20 -2008 Page 8 of 15 community, not that it is residences, necessarily. I don't know how you incorporate that nicely, because a lot of the places like a WalMart, you would not want because it's just a huge parking lot without any — you can't even get close to that without almost dying from the walk. i like that idea where you`re thinking about the building being closer aid the parking behind, but I wonder if you've thought about that in more rural areas. P: We actually have been talking about that. How do you allow for some of that — the small corner stores — out in the less dense areas in a way that can be accommodated without getting people upset who moved out there to be away from stuff. We have been talking about that. The idea is that these areas are closer connected to places and may have sidewalks like near the villages or hamlets and to can support to the center of a harnlet which could then facilitate the opening of another neighborhood store. P: One of the things in the guidelines is also that when businesses are put up, initially there might not be pedestrian areas, but we could reserve space for pedestrian ingress and egress for when there are enough businesses to support it. Then when the next business builds, there is already an easement on the adjacent property for them to link to and make that part of the approval. That's how the design guidelines complement.the zoning. It's there and they have to meet the design guidelines. A: How can we enforce these guidelines'? 1 don't want the town to get sued as a to*vvii about it. It gets very subjective. We can say, Nve. like this, but how can we codify that? P: The answer to that is that's why there's a Planning Board. That why they make discretionary decisions whereas Henry and the Zoning officers, look at things from a code compliance perspective. An Administrator has to make yes or no decisions. They can't make subjective decisions. P: Without the design guidelines, all the Planning Board really has is the zoning: and zoning by itself, by its nature, is not subjective. That's why you don't put things like setbacks in guidelines. Courts have found that when Planning Boards use guidelines in conjunction with zoning it gives them more strength for their decision making. It backs them up more. There's a balance. The design guidelines are really meant to show a vision, but also allow for flexibility and common sense that everybody knows you have to apply from property to property. Yes, it's being consistent from property to property and treating everybody fairly, and applying that principle across the line, but also being reasonable because different properties have different circumstances and different opportunities. If you only have the zoning, the zoning is really silent on that kind of stuff; it's only about minimum and maximum standards and things like that. The Design Guidelines give an extra leg to stand on for a planning board or for an applicant to say they want to try something different. This seems to tit the Design Guidelines, it seems like what you want to go with. Just interpreting the basic zoning makes it hard to tell what you're really looking for. The Guidelines help to get people on the same wavelength. Those kind of issues come up even without Design Guidelines all the time for Planning Boards if they just look at the zoning code. They get accused of not treating people the same. A: This discussion has pointed out some ambiguous area about the location, and you've talked a big about it. You said that the Yellow Barn area was a possibility for Neighborhood Residential. P: No, she asked if that was the type of neighborhood that represents what this would be. A: And it could be means that one could define it as that. P: But that location is a little isolated. 0 P'8 l I -20-2068 :Page 9 of 15 A; One of the arnbiguities is that the idea of Nei j iborhocd Residential and one of the reasons I find that distasteful is that Suburban Residential suggests next to some kind of hamlet like circumstance rather than Neighborhood Residential. And the iloafuig zone, depending on in frastructure, also makes it independent in some way. It creates an ambiguity that it's independent of the hamlets. That it can float anywhere_ P: That's a decision you have to make. A: I guess it depends on what you mean by infrastructure. If you're saying that a . R should have sidewalks, but it way be that it doesn't necessarily need them. P; Infrastructure basically means sewer and water. To get even down to acre lots or acre lots, you really need sewer and water because yoo have a minimum lot size from the Health De-pa merit of an acre_ The idea is that it's hard to build this scale, Impossible rigJJt now, but let's identifv in the town where that scale might be appropriate in the future anti if somebody comes in �%ith a great project, maybe they want t() put a lot of Money in, they might be a partner L extending infrastructure and helping to improve saint of the infastru chi re eater &,sewer plants; to accommodate. If we're going to having somewhat higher density development, we're. saving "lie re" is where maybe it's appropriate. And it's really fairly small areas. Where's a balance, too, when you build tip against a hamlet; you don't want to overwhelm the hamlet, neceS6arily. People have different ideas about what hamlet living should be like_ Through the Comp flan process, it was identi-lied that it could be bene- icial, too, if there are going to be areas with more housing, to have them be close to a hai„let to help support them. We're still working on the details of that. P: 63% of residents said they want to see rnore public Recreatioil Facilities in the To% n. accord Mg to the 1999 Resident Survey done in the Town of Dryden. 1 -I — Hamlet o Current zoning does not recognize hainlets o Build on Handet Scale & Character, Walkable o .Residential o Commercial Along Major Reads • CC — Commercial o Dedicated lone o 'town- sealed (no meganialIs) o l3till"ers to Screen Commercial From Residential o Agriculture, Residential Permitted • LIO — Fight Industrial 1 O.f }ice o Ligjit Industrial o Offices o Con,rnercial o Agriculture Permitted A; Are we talking about Rezoning Route 13 or the whoel tc wm? P; Townwide. A: Then why area we only looking at Route 13? Vvhy aren't we also looking at Route 366 and the commercial area on 366? P: That is coming. There isn t a lot to I1'recv111e. Are you saying you think there should be. more commercial zoning betk een Etna quid Freevi.11e? PB 11 -20 -2008 Page 10 of 15 A: Yes, there's commercial development through there. P: Actually, I think we are looking at that. We, II write that down and make sure it gets included. A: How are you defining Commercial Zone? Does it also incorporate mixed use? P: Yes, it does. There isn't a lot of intrast Met Lire in the town for many of these areas, so really the Design Guidelines are helping to say what this might look there and where there's more desire to have more going on, that's where they talk about more density. The reality is, without infrastructure, the scale of development along Route 13 is going to be fairly modest for many years to come. A: The NYSEG / Pinckney Road area — there's a fair amount of industrial mix in that area as well. P: Not to be confusing, but many of the zones from the Comp Plan have been kept, but renamed. The LIO zone might end up being a catchall zone. It's a nice place to allow good things happen. Key ideas: • Separating lot Size from Density • "Frontage Based" Density o Frontage -based density requirements protect full development of town roads, while allowing for reasonable amount of development. To get more lots than what is permitted by frontage: Conservation Subdivision Procedures • Challenge: How to protect town character with Dryden's piecemeal development pattern? • Protects Town Character at "Full Build Out" Grovall • Meets housing Demand/ Market in Dryden for Many Years A: I think that's a tremendous idea. Any subdivisions in the town that are more than 10 acres are not controlled. Over the last 20 years, we've seen so many 10 acre plus lots xvith wasted land with single family houses on them, gone out agriculture in to scrub which has then developed more habitat for wildlife which has often become nuisance wildlife.. The idea of being able to use the land more effectively is a tremendous idea. Conservation Subdivisions • Four Step Analysis (from Residential Guidelines) 1. Identity Regional /I own Resources Relative to Site 2. Analyze Site -Level Resources 3. Mutually Determine Con servation,0evelopment .Areas 4. Prepare iaevelopment Layout • A conservation easement is the legal tool that ensures that conservation lands set aside as a result of this process remain undeveloped. o Who owns the open space? ■ Individual landowner or landowners PB ] 1- #0 -2008 Page t 1 of 15 ■ Land trusts. Hold easemen ts or fee simple. title to ensure conservation of lands, ■ Municipality 1 other public agency ■ Romeovmers' Association ■ Corn bInations of the above_ o Who maintains the open space? ■ The Owner — Depending on Who that is - a management plan or a memorandum of understanding can help avoid iegal problems down the road. kcv Ideas; In Dryden — Two "hypes o Conservati on SAdivIsi oils : "Lo %v Impact" C: onservation Subdivisions IS o Proposed density Nvell -below maximum o Expedited Review & Procedures Standard Conservation Subdivisiolls o Not a Low Impact Conservation Sui bdvision o Standard Review P: This is so�r�ething that is probably going to kick in do %km the road, i'he idea is trying to give maximum flexibility, let people get equi #y out of their land. but over the long -term. 0 -40 years from now, make sure that all this incremenwi development doesn`t end up taking away the character of the to"+n_ A: What about the M A Tones? P; Those are the i.T0 zones now_ A: What about Hcavy Industrial? P: IIow heavy? A: There's {1 cement plant. We've got a perfect area to put that kind of business. What are you Going to do about historic issues? I see no signs about billboards and that kind OF thing. which we have in this area, at leas# in Dryden. I don't know I they just were grandfa#hered in. P; They're grand.fathered. 1"hey're uo longer permitted. : The adult use zone. P: Stays the same_ A: What about a plant where they're put( i11g together fire trucks, or at least the bodies` Where, would we put that? PL : 1 ICS A; That would be a Light [ndustrial? T': Yes. Very mi iii in€ ] air poI Iution, no heavy use of chemicals, an assembly line, definitely LI01 A; So mining gravel is what? P: What is i #s own use. That 's mining. There's a developing use table, which we. didn't put in here because we could spend a +hole meeting just on that and 1=m sure that we wl11, but this is lister! there, PB 11 -20 -2008 Page 12 of 15 A: 1 just think that those are pretty important issues because they are the ones that are going to get people really upset when somebody wants to come in and build "x" plant, which could mean tax base. P: L-Ias it been a problem in the past? A: We've got a cement plant. It could be an asphalt plant, for example. P: We have a working draft. It's evolving, but mining is listed at the moment as a Special Permit use in a couple of zones at the moment. A: A couple comments —just as a concept thought — in terms of concentrating where development periods may want to go, Dryden has a lot of topography that really is not useful for development, but there are people who would like to stick a little plot here and there and so forth. Those areas also will never have any kind of substantial sewer development. They may demand water, however, which is a different fact. Water tables in those areas, in the hills, are shallow to start with, or you have to go a long .ways to get water, and sometimes the water isn't very good. One might characterize a landscape in such a way that, in terms of the cost to development, it is higher here because of these topographical elements, as opposed to over here where you can design your zoning around certain things. it might just tell the developer that it would cost more to build in certain areas because of health regulations and /or other considerations that would be a way for a developer, particularly coming from the outside, who may take a look at this and say it doesn't make much sense. The other point is that you actually started talking about 30 -40 years out. The general Fingerlakes area is becoming increasingly attractive to people moving from downstate to upstate. Ifglobal warming is in fact likely to occur in the way that it is predicted, there may be more people from Long Island moving faster than we might anticipate. You might think in a conceptual sort of sway. People selling houses downstate NY or CT and moving up here have a big chunk of money to put dowel. That raises the local tax base, but could hurt things because of neighbors that are used to lower taxes and such. P: The .way that it's mentioned in the Comp Plan, there is plenty of area for development to occur. It's looking at a pretty substantial amount of development that could occur. When 1 say 30 -40 years, the way we're developing the zoning and the guidelines, we had to do a balance between being effective to existing and likely patterns for at least the next 5 -10 years, especially with the Design Guidelines. The actual zoning, with these Conservation Subdivision requirements, will kick in and may be used more as more intense development pressures come, but they are also written in a way that reflects the current state of development. At some point, they can be reexamined and they should be periodically. A: One thing to talk about is building on the hill. What they did behind P &C where the Cornell Agriculture place is, they built up that entire hill — all houses. That's all you see. When you look at Mt. Pleasant, that's not what you see. 'There's a border of houses along the road, but they tried to make it so people couldn't build on the whole hill. The other problem is that with people building on the hill is that the waste comes down and starts to contaminate the water and things for people lower down who are pumping out water there.. t didn't see any consideration for that in this. Is there any? P: We have talked about that. In the Comprehensive flan, there is a constraint map that clearly shows where they're not conducive to good drainage for septic systems. It's a big step from that to say, thou shalt not build on sites like this. I think Jim's idea that maybe we want to have some kind of addendum that tells the developer or the potential homcolmier, "It's more expensive to maintain a house on a place like this." f B 11 -20- 2008 Page 13 of 15 P: The other thing is that if it's a small development as far as number of. homes, then the Design Guidelines — the concepts of the Conservation Subdivision apply to all the development. If you have a real constrained portion of the site, you have to take that in to consideration. They might not have to go through a full subdivision process, but there is still that process in there which includes identifying constraints on the property, which is really my (Dan Kwasnowski) _job. `] "he project would still go to the Planning Board with notes on where the big constraints are on the property — wetlands, slope, etc., and the P13 has to take that and decide with the developer / future homeok%7ier whether the project can go forward. P: At that point, the process clearly states you have to look at the relationship of the site and its impact on other areas. If this is a case where the property is already impacting places down the hill, I'm sure Dan would be looking at that, at that point. It's hard to zone for certain specifics. Every property is different and needs to be looked at individually. A: For maintaining viable agriculture — oftentimes experience has been that farmers will sell o1T a lot or two if they need money — what about the idea of paying the farmers for some transfer of development rights and that kind of thing? P: We have an active Purchase of Development Rights program right now. We have 2 farms under contract and 3 farms applying for grants. The 2 farms are up on the hill — The Stuttles at Lew Lin Farm and The Sherman Farm. We should close on The Stuttle Farm this spring and probably shortly after that, close on The Sherman Farm. They're each 400 -500 acres. A: There aren't very many fauns left in the Town. It would be nice to have the County adopt something and have County wide system. A: Setbacks are another part of zoning. Like in Varna — there's that Laundromat that's like a mile back from the road. It's the worst example, but when you look at Varna and the way the highway has gone through, that is what the state expects. The Comp Plan has suggested pushing Varna closer to the road. P: We're going to try to do that. It doesn't make sense to push buildings back. It'll erode what we're trying to accomplish — the type of neighborhood. We have to have conversation with NYS DOT and try to do improvements down there and maintain the road that will avoid giant traffic jams but allow for a smaller setback requirement. A: Even further out, it's kind of crazy to have 90 feet from the center line all along Route 13 and 366. P: Some of that is if they decide to widen the road, they ]lave the space to do it. It's something DOT has control over. A: Your early slides which showed Route 13 /366 overlap where the Sunoco station was. I think that point is a very good one about what we need, i believe, on Route 13, is more access roads parallel. Your better slide did not show a strong enough delineation of the parallel access road. When people get in to parking lots, they forget how to drive. If you don't have a very clear road, they don't pay attention. One of the worst planning decisions recently was in the Southwest development down in Ithaca. You can get form Wegmans all the way to WalMart on the access road if you want to go South, but if you come down the access road that comes from Lowe's, they want you to go to Route 13, go through the light, travel, and then come back around in to Tops because of the way they have put the median in there so you can't turn on the parallel access road. To me that destroys of trying to get the traffic off the main road. P: There's a lot of sentiment that we would love to see an access road, but how to get ® there — we don't want to pay to build another road. We don't feel we can afford it right now. How do we create an environment that gets toward that right now? We talked about having PB 11 -20 -2008 Page 14 of 15 businesses that are at the intersections move then- entrances to the side road rather than to Route 13, but that's as close as we can figure out how to get to that point. A: We had that problem in the Village. People said they wanted sidewalks; but they didn't connect to anything. Well, they filled in afterwards. If ��ou put in the basic structure, people will add to it and it will fill in. P:1 thin]: it's a valid point. We're saying this is what we want it to look like now. We haven't really said what we want it to look like in 20- 3040 }rears. A: 20 -30 years goes by pretty quickly. P: "that's what alarms me, because the 18th century development slides — it's an eye blink until that's doubled. P: There is a lack of infrastructure along Route 13. From the Comp Plan, my understanding is that what was envisioned for the vast majority is a fairly low intensity — not strip plazas and malls and stuff'— that's the interpretation you get from the Comp Plan. For the larger stretch of 13, it's like where you have that dry goods place; they look like home scaled businesses. That's really all you can build right there. You can't build giant restaurants because the infrastructure isn't there. P: 1 think Mike has a very good point. if you build it, they will conk, to a certain extent. That's a decision that the town has to go through. A: We don't have such a huge press for development that we have the luxury of telling developers, if you're coming, this is what you're going to do. The Town, at least as i've observed over the years; reacts when somebody wants to do something and says, "How do we help them do it ?" I think that's the old zoning process — the Special Permit process. It was not very pretty; but it responded to the town wanting some development ofsomething and had to .work with .what came Along. A: And they put them in the wrong places. A: They may have. All I'm trying to say is that the Town can make a beautiful set of zoning laws that has a great setup for the outskirts of Washington DC where there's a huge development pressure, and we .won't get any development at all. P: That's very much been the theme as the Planning Board has gone through this process — how do we balance this? This is the .way things have developed. This is how we want things to go. By spelling it out ahead oftime with the Design Guidelines; there will be a lot less back and forth because developers will have a better idea up front of what the Town is looking for. It «,rill help people go through the process more easily. A: Is there a huge cost difference in building the Sunoco station how they built the Nlobil vs. how they built it here? What's the cost difference to the companies? P: With a lot of the chains; they have prototypes for dif1crent kinds of towns. They know different towns are going to want different kinds of buildings. They're prepared for that. You won't get it if you don't ask, and you can always negotiate. A: It sounds like we've talked about the project background, the Town Development Trends, the Design Guidelines. I'm curious — can you give me an estimate of when we're going to get to zoning amendments? Is there going to be any discussion on that tonight? P: We're almost ready with a draft, but before we Lot too far, we wanted to make sure we were on the right road as far as the town's residents are concerned. Also bring people up to speed on hoer far we've come so far before we go further. Once we get a draft, we'll put it out on the website, copies at the Town Flail and maybe the library. Have it out there for a few weeks so that PR I1 -20 -2008 Page 15 of 15 people can really take a look at it and read it over. °fhen have a couple more public meetings to get feedback, make another draft, and have a final meeting before it gets passed. P: One thing that is in the works is amendments to make the Design Guidelines and Subdivision processes part of the zoning process sooner rather than later. We've found these informational sessions very helpful to the Planning Board when we were doing the Comprehensive Plan because we got a lot of feedback so that by the time it go to the public hearing stage, people were aware and they had given us lots of input and we worked out a lot of the quirks. If it takes several more informational meetings at different stages, we'll do them. It's your plan. A. What's the coordination with the county plan? Is there any? P: It's not that far off. We looked at the 13!366 corridor study. They have a focus on nodal development, and that's similar here. A: When do we see a map? " Fhat's when people will start questioning. P: The idea is that you list the places you want to create, the zones. Where those places go on the map is a separate process. First, you need to get agreement on the places. A: Will there be public meetings in different locales in the town? P: Yes, but I also want to remind everyone that ALL Planning Board meetings are open to the public. This is what we are going to be discussing every month for the next few months until it's done, so please come to those meetings. Next Steps: incorporate Feedback Complete Draft Zoning and Zoning Map Make Available for Public Review Present Draft Zoning Town Public Hearing Next Meeting: Thursday, December 18, 2008, at 7:00 pm at the To�vn Hall. Meeting ended at 8:40 pm. Respectfully Submitted, Patty Millard Recording Secretary