HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-12-16Town of Dryden Planning Board
December 16, 2004
Agenda: (1) Gary L. Wood
(2) Matrix Energy Subdivision
(3) Future Events
Mem. Present: Barbara Caldwell, Tom Hatfield, David Weinstein, Jim Crawford,
Joseph Laquatra, Russell Beck
Also Present: Stephen Bell, Henry Slater, Debbie Gross, Gary Wood
(1) Gary L. Wood
7:10 B. Caldwell called the public meeting to order.
B. Caldwell Asked the board if they would like to change anything on the
November 18'h minutes. Then asked if there was a motion to be
approved as noted which J. Crawford moved and was seconded by
• Joseph Laquatra and approved by all.
Mr. Wood Introduced his 63 -acre parcel between on Etna Road. Then told
the board that he was looking to divide up this area into 10 or 11
lots, which are each in access of 3 acres with all having a 185 feet
of frontage. Went on to introduce both ideas of division
B. Caldwell Asked Mr. Wood if the water table was high in this area and if the
soil was not very good as it was on a project in close vicinity to
this one.
Mr. Wood Responded by saying that he was aware of those problems and that
was the reason the lots were divided the way they were. Continued
by pointing out that the soil close to the road is good.
D. Weinstein Stated his concern for the soil and pointed out that building closer
to the road is the best idea. Farther more he stated that the
seconded plan that was introduced was the best because of the
power lines, which would limit people's power to closer to the
road and subsequently build farther away from the road.
R� Beck Asked Mr. Food if there would be enough room on the lot most
efF cted by the power lines to build a houses and all necessary
components of a 1}ouse,
Mr, Wood Answered mea►suremcnts proving that there would be enough room
and distance from the road to Fit a home and its components. Then
told the board that he would prepare a map with cver }rChing
prepared on it such as septic tanks and everythincy else,
T, Hatfield Asked if i t would be possible for there to be shared driVe ways
since there would be a lot of road cuts if otherwise.
Mr. Wood Stated ]tie thought it wasn't necessary since the drive ways would
not be close together because of the size of the lots and that Etna
Rd, doesn't get as much traffic as roads that have had problems
with road cuts like West Dryden Rd .
T. Hatfield Then offered shared road cuts not shared driveways, as a solution
to is inquiry.
B. Caldwell Asked i C any o f the board members had and comrncnts, questions,
or concerns for Mr, Wood.
( ) Matrix Frnergy Subdivision
T. Lolvim Introduced a 162 acre parcel which he would like to be divided in
to around 40 depending on how investigations go. Continued with
describing a 1.25 -mile road that would loop around and come back
into its self - creating a circle. Also stated that the road would only
have one access poilit it being Wood Rd.
B, Caldwell Asked about the ownership of both the wetlands that are located on
some lots and also the two drainage ponds that are ]coated on the
lots,
T, Jx1ve Answered by saying that the ponds and wetlands would be apart of
the purchase of the particular lot. Maintenance of the ponds would
be up to the owner of the lot,
T. Hatfield Stated that there has to be sumething to shelter the protected
stream that was down the middle of the whole land.
T. Lolve Stated that the road wou I be dedicated to the tow m at some point
alld W0LIId be 1 -2 feel above grade due to the daml)ness_
17. 11'e-in Ste in Asked if they were going to be building the homes and selling
them or to just sell the property.
T. Lolve Staled that the land owner wasn't interested in building the houses
but only the road and utilities.
D. Weinstein Asked how they were planning on building the road with out
disrupting the natural drainage of the land,
T. Lolvie Desponded that drainage ditches %V0LIId be iii place and that the
land would help the flow of water to the ponds.
T. Hatfield Asked if this project was going to be put in as phases or as a whole
thing,
T. Lolve Desponded by stating it would go in all together as one.
J. Crawford Asked if they think there should be a community location for kids,
R, Beck Stated that wI(h the average size lot being 3 acres it wouldn't be
necessary for the location,
T, Hatfield Continued with the suggestion that there could be a running or
biking path around the middle of the circle die road creates_
R. Beck Asked about the avarge price for the houses on the circle incase of
a three hundred thousand dollar house being built by an eighty
thousand dollar house,
T. Lolve Aalisered by stating that it is up to the real - estate agent and the
owner how the property to designate a range.
Dr Nkeinstein Stated his concern for the lots around the wetland and the floodirig
problem,
B_ Caldwell
Asked iFMr_ Lolve had any questions For the hoard_
T_ Lolve Responded by with a no but inducted that he would be working
with both Henry Slater and Debbie Gross.
B. Caldwell
Then Basked the board if they had any other questions_
D. einstei
� n Asked ifMr. Lolve was submitting these documents then which
was riot the case,
B. Caldwell Then th€nked M r, LoIve for coming and talking to the board and
also projected the si,Lbmissicn on the. next meeting.
(3) Future Events
B. Caldwell Cotiued the hean
n n n by 1,oaking note of the Lucente's appeal to
the Zoning Board, Understanding that the case would be brought .
to the Planning Board for sub division approval.
14. dater 'Explained to the Planning Board the Lucente's appeal and
situation.
B_ Caldwell Asked Debbie gross, Russell Beek, and Toni Hatfield about what
happened at the Agricultural Group meeting.
R. Beck Stated htat he
thought
the rneeting went very
well
and
if
accomplished
what Nvas set out to be and sct
aside
my
any fears,
T. Hatfield Projected his optimism (bat there could be a public hearing by
February.
D. Gross Explained what happened and displayed her draft minutes of the
meeting,
x:20 P1\4. B. Caldwell closed the public hearing
Simon St. Laurent, 2259 Dryden Road, 256 -5334
The plan talks a lot about a Main St. in Varna proposal and changing the road, but it doesn't talk
about DOT and it's likely odds of being interested in such a proposal. I'd like some reality
check given to what seems like a really good idea before it determines (couldn't hear on tape).
George Frantz,
Others have said the same. ..but if you don't put it in the plan, it's not going to happen,
Groton and Dryden Village and ... Trumansburg is now embarking on a similar project in their
downtown, 800,000 of which, 75 %, is being paid for by the state and the DOT is cooperating
with it. There's been a sea change in the DOT over the last decade, and they are more amenable
to mitigating the impact of heavy traffic on communities, so it is definitely not pie in the sky.
Simon St. Laurent
They just don't seem very fond of lowering speed limits...
George Frantz
They base their speed limits on development density, and if there's not much, they keep it high.
This is the issue in Varna. It's such a beautifully built and designed highway, 45 MPH is
perfectly safe for the motorists. Engineers with DOT say their job is to protect the rights of the
motoring public. This type of proposal is a way to mitigate the impacts of traffic in Varna.
When you have the curbs, on street parking and the like, the speed limit has to be lowered to 35
mph. More commerical development can result in a reduction in the speed limit.
• Simon St. Laurent
But there is a nasty cycle ... if you increase the density you are likely to end up with more
apartment complexes dropped in...
George Frantz
Don't equate density with apartments. Try, please try, because there are many options.
Debbie Gross
The Ithaca - Tompkins County Transportation Council (ITCTC) is a forum for representatives
from Dryden to interact with DOT. There is a spot for one additional representative from
Dryden for this group.
Martha Robertson
Can it be any resident?
Debbie Gross
I'll find out, and maybe we can post this on the web.
(no name stated)
A comment related to this. There are very few mandates associated with comprehensive plans in
New York State town law, but one of them actually is that all government agencies have to take
: the local comprehensive plan into account in their capital pro ject management. So DOT, if the
highway to main street concept actually gets adopted as part of the town plan, has to sit up and
pay attention to that.
Martha Robertson, 1655 Ellis Hollow Rd., 272 -0584
I'm on the county legistlature, and we've been looking at a housing shortage in the county, for
most of this year, and while I am concerned about open space and viewsheds as much as
anybody, I want to say that all of us are really affected by the housing shortage. Our assessments
are higher, because the demand for homes is so high, there is a desperate shortage of homes at all
income levels in the county, so that pushes everybody's assessments up. Everybody complains
about traffic, well we have about 14,000 people who commute every day into Tompkins Cty to
work. Now some of them would always want to live outside of Tompkins County where they
live now, but a lot of them live in other counties because they can't afford to buy or even rent a
home in the county, so we are all affected by the traffic that has to go by our houses every single
day. ..we have to pay maintenance on the road, and I'm sure all of us know people who can't
find a home or an apartment they can afford. It's a really complicated situation, but I've done a
lot of thinking about it this year, and I think we really need to all accept that we need more
housing at all income levels, and we need to find the right places for it and support additional
infrastructure so it can go in the right places, and we need to take an active role in helping to
design it so that we like to look at it, and so we can create communities that we like and enhance
communities. For example, if Varna had more population, then it could support a mom and pop
grocery store that everybody could enjoy, and we wouldn't have to drive to the P and C for a
carton of milk. We need to start to embrace this type of thing, yet change is really hard. It is
really important that we grapple with these issues. I hope that the planning board will take
• enough time to really think about these things and not just change a few lines and hand it to the
town board to accept. I hope this will be the beginning of another real stage of hard
thinking... because Dryden is going to look different, no matter what we do in another 20 years,
the question is, will it look different in ways that we've thought hard about and agree on (more
or less) or will it look different by accident, in ways that we didn't intend.
George Frantz
In the plan itself there are numbers... just in the suburban residential areas, on the map here, there
is actually the potential for about 5,300 new homes.. And we are only talking about 1800.
Townwide, this plan allows room for almost 10,000 homes throughout the town of Dryden. So l
don't see this plan having any sort of adverse impact on the potential for the town to provide
housing for residents of all incomes.
Martha Robertson
It would be interesting if you could ... if a series of maps could be made, like a time series... if the
first 300 homes and then the next 300 homes ... to see what it might look like over a period of
time.. .
But you can't control who makes plans to develop where.
No you really couldn't do it.
You have to rely on the market a little bit
That's it exactly.
t
v
D
A builder's not going to build a house that he can't sell.
Alex Gonzalez., 100 Orion Drive
I'd like to see an end, or a moratorium at least, on building cell phone towers, and I am also
concerned about the creeping of residential houses around Dryden Lake.
Barbara Caldwell
The cell towers would be an issue to discuss with the town board.
Evan Carpenter, 2265 and 2242 Dryden Road, 8444049 and 9419
I live in the middle of the red, just west of the Village of Dryden on 13. Question I have is,
talking about about expanding water and sewer, what is the cost for those three or 4 large areas
of red, comparatively.
Gcorge Franti,
It's somewhere in chapter 6. I've only scratched the surface of the plan in this presentation.
It is best to look at the plan. It will be far less than people in Lansing gill pay. We should take
advantage of public water and sewer and get more homes on the land rather than spreading them
out. Water and sewer lines cost roughly 30 dollars a foot, and that adds up quickly.
Patricia Winn, 1635 Dryden Road, 3474897
• There's mention of a route 13 overlay, with more commercial and more industrial. Let me tell
you, l live on route 13, and that road is so busy already, it would be impossible for many more
ins and outs on the road.
George Frantz
There is more detail in the plan, about the route 13 overlay. 1 suggest you read what is there.
Steve Adams, 56 Lake Road
I'd be interested in a primer on the process from here. What will be the political process that
leads to developments being encouraged and discouraged in different places?
Barbara Caldwell
Lets go back to look at where this plan is coming from. In 2000, we had a resident survey and a
study working with the Cornell Department of City and Regional Planning. Now we have a draft
and we are taking public comments. After taking your comments, when we feel we have made
sufficient modifications to meet the general concerns that need to be addressed, we will have a
public hearing. After the public hearing, we can further modify it, and maybe have another
public hearing I guess if need be. If we are comfortable with it at that point, then we formally
forward it to the town board. They, in turn, will have to have a public hearing process too.
c:
(no name stated)
Is this zoning?
Barbara Caldwell
No, this is not zoning. Zoning is one of the ways to accomplish some of these goals. This is an
overall idea, and in many cases we are looking to be prepared for worst case possibilities in some
of these situations. For instance, some of the land that is currently farmed, that we perhaps have
put a different designation on, well we hope it will continue farming, we really hope it will, but
this is a possibility .for the future. We are talking 20 years, 30 years. The last comprehensive
plan was 1968, that's a long time ago. Even though we are talking 20 years for this plan, it takes
a long time to update plans. Hopefully, once this is in place, we. will be looking at it on a regular
basis to tweak it when it's necessary. Does that give you some idea of the process? You will
have plenty of opportunities for input. If any of you want to send us an e-mail or a letter, we
welcome those.
David Weinstein
And the public is welcome to attend planning board meetings, where modifications to the plan
will be discussed.
Corwin Holtz, 30 Lewis St., 844 -3649
With respect to agricultural lands. 1 don't know how the process works, as far as expanding
residential next to agriculture. is DEC and others included in the process, relative to...in the
village, nuisance law suits and odor issues and all this as we try to maintain the agricultural land,
then we have the issue of residents wanting to take issue with agricultural practices, so 1 wonder
if that is part of the plan.
George Frantz.
This is a reason for channelling residential development... you have to provide farmers with the
ability to create building space, every once in a while, if only for a cash emergency, or
whatever.. we are not talking about totally elinimating development potential of the agricultural
land ... but one of the reasons again for... effective agricultural zoning... usually there will be an
agricultural zoning district ... and the first statement in that district will be right to farm.
Corwin Holtz
That's basically what I was trying to get at...
Sharon Petrillose, 915 Bowman Road, Elmira, 732=4806
She and her husband Robert have 55 acres at the intersection of Hanshaw and 13. They are
wondering whether the water and sewer connections that are provided to the Armory and high
speed checking ( ?) will ever come across 131 Cornell says their property is wetland and good for
birds. 'They are also wondering about the water supply and waste treatment of a nearby mobile
home. (1 couldn't hear well enough to tell whether they are concerned about keeping
development away from their property, or whether they would like to put in a home
there... something about keeping it for their grandchildren)
George Frantz
The plan does envision public water and sewer in the area, but there is no timetable.
David Weinstein
The idea is not for the town to go out and build sewer areas in places that are not developed and
take water into places that are not developed and change the use of that land, simply by putting
in water and sewer. The map is laying down locations where it is reasonable, at some point in
the future, to extend water and sewer should the density of residential development occur over
time and start demanding that. So that is really the difference.
George Frantz.
The key is to get the developers to pay for as much of this infrastructure as possible.
Ann Leonard, 46 Hammond Hill (by the park), 844 -8706
1 have a question about cluster subdivisions to preserve open space. How will this be integrated
with current zoning...or will you go on a case by case basis? Will you wait for somebody to
come and say 1 have this really great spot and I think it would be a good cluster subdivision and
so I could put in a little park, down by the swamp; for example?
George Frantz
Cluster subdivision design would be an aspect of the subdivision regulations, and would relate to
the zoning densitities allowed. It would not be used to create parkland. The open space would
be in private ownership (included in a large houselots), with some kind of conservation easement
on it.
(no name stated)
Who is purchasing the development rights for the large tract?
George Frantz
No, there are no development rights to purchase, because the density is already one unit per 10
acres. With water and sewer you could preserve land even in denser zoning districts.
(no name stated)
How would the conservation land be taxed?
George Frantz
The land would be taxed as recreational land, since it cannot be taxed as developable land.
(no name stated)
Recreational land tax is getting pretty expensive.
i
.r
0 - r
r
Dan Karig
In open space conservation areas, where there would be 1 dwelling unit per 10 acres, I hope that
you would take into consideration very seriously, the road net that might go with this. ..to control
that, so that you don't end up with a lot of new roads, that might be inefficient.
George Frantz
This is where cluster subdivisions become very useful as well as flag lots or panhandle lots. The
goal should be to add no new roads because the density doesn't require it. People can have
private driveways, but reducing the density reduces the potential for new roads in this area.
Craig Schutt, 69 Schutt Rd
I understand what you are trying to do, to bring residential into the area, but it is almost in
conflict, when you talk about preserving good agricultural land ... that big red area to the west of
town is pretty darn good agricultural land right now, and there is also another problem ... it's right
there on Virgil creek and if you start developing that, you will start increasing your runoff, you'lh
cause problems with faster runoff into the creek and flooding downstream. I don't think this has
been thought out carefully. If you need to preserve farmland, farmland is a better use of the land
along that corridor than residential would be. You could make a whole new set of problems if
that was all built up.
Cliff Norte
I have a question about forever wild / nature conservancy land...is that land taxable property, or
is it tax exempt? These nature conservancy groups that buy up land... everybody in this room is
picking up the tab for them not paying taxes on their property. I think that's wrong.
(no name stated)
...not necessa6, often times you'll see increased property values for those taxable properties that
surround these lands, so the costs are not necessarily distributed town wide; they are often picked
up by increased property value in the neighboring properties.
Martha Robertson
Another way to look at it is that open space doesn't require services. And another argument for
agriculture is that "cows don't go to school" so if you think about it... open space doesn't require
government services. A comment about the housing. It seems like we have enough
McMansions in a lot of places. The need for housing is at the moderate to low income level. If
you have a 5 or 10 acre lot, the person who can afford to buy it will build a big house on it. I
don't know in terms of housing stock that large lots are a big need. Did you look at purchase of
development rights? I know that the town of Ithaca has a program. I'm really concerned about
what Kathleen said, even though I started out talking about housing, if it were me, 1 would start
w =ith, what is already being farmed, where are the best soils that aren't now farmed, but could
be,. And it is really important to protect contiguous agricultural lands and not increase the edges
where You have uses that can conflict with eachother like residential and farms isolated in
pockets surrounded by residential. .,.so 1 hope that you really start to look at farming and the best
ways to preserve it and purchase of development rights.