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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002-09-255 TOWN OF DRYDEN PLANNING BOARD WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2002 MEMBERS PRESENT; Chairperson Barbara Caldwell, Martin Chri stoffm' oin, Jae Laquatra, Jr_, Natan Hufll narn, Torn Hatfield, and David Weinstein ALSO PRE SENT& Henry Slater, Ted Lauve, P.E_, Mark _ , George Frantz, and Penny Lisi — Recording Secretary AGENDA# (Y) Best Run Subdivision Final Plat Review 2)111 ompkins Co- Planning Department (3) August iv.1!inutes (4) Miscellaneous Business (S) Long Range Plan (1) Rest Run Subdivision Final Plat Review 6:39 PM Chairperson Caldwell opened the hearing. React legal notice posted in the Ithaca Journal regarding the final plat review for the Lest Run Subdivision- Asked Ted Lauve, RE_ to update the board on recent activitia, ;- T+ Lauve: Stated they prepared septic system, water system and design for individual sights of the nine lots remaining_ Stated they have submitted the plans to the health department who, in turn, had some comments that he has taken care of John Andersson of the Health i_]epartment is ready to approve the drawings_ H. Slater: Stated he had forgotten to pass that intorrnation on to the heard, but, in fact, MC. A riders son is ready to approve the draw] ngs, D. Weinstein. Asked if Mr_ Aiidersson has seen the response to their comments, 1 '. Lauve: Yes_ H. Slater: The only reason M r. Andm4Lion has not signed the drawings yet is because they are at the Town Hall, B. Caldwell: .Asked about tine drainage and/or retention situation, "1'. Lauve: The town engineers revielved the drainage quid had some comments. He put in a cut off pitch along the northern boundary line to where the town is and drains the en ti re property that goes to the northeast. H. Slater: The board has a letter dated September 5 "' that says they are totally satisfied with chinos, R. C'aldsvell; Had a call fro in the town attorn ey this morning regarding how the maintenance oi� the drainage area on lost 7 was being addressed and apparently there's been agreement, if it's satlAactory to the town board to go along with, that the responsibility would be with the A+� rs 4U) F%6 owner Of"that property though the tOWrh could step hi, they would not have the obII Safi orn to. T. Lauve: Con-ect, we put the language of that on the plat and glans, All comments on these drawings have been addressed and Henry can verify. >B, Caldwell: Any other issues we need to address" Fl. Slater: Have you con cIude€k S EQ R can September IO'h of last year, you prepared a sptulles application and filed that? T. Lauve; That's correct, it's on tilt' with Albany. B. Caldwell* What is the road status? H. Slater: The read status plans are acceptable. You have a letter f rnn} Jack Bush dated June 251" that says he satisfied with the road plans. They obviously had to build them and deed them to the Town. I be] Ieve everything is in order and John signing and the Town boards' approval ofthc wording of lot 7 accenting to the attorney. B. Caldwell: Are there any other questions from members of the PIanning board? D. Weinstein: Can you please send a copy of the speedies application to the tot {frig 1l. Slater; I belie+e there is one in the mile. B. Caldwell* Asked Ted if he had any further questions of the board? III Lauve: Ado, D. Weinstein: "these pieces of land at the end of the read that we asked you to shorten the road up, what is the. ownership of that? T. Lauve: That will be deeded over to the town - 6:40 PM On a motion by David Weinstein arid seconded by Joe Laquatm, the hearing was closed unanimously. Conditions were as follows; 1) [load built and deeded to the Town 2) Arrangements as outlined by the attorney for Lot 7 are satisfactory to the "I "own 3} Health Department signature 4) Drainage plans built as indicated 6:50 PM Can a motion by .Ice Laquatra and seconded by David Weinstein, the final plat was unanimously approved with the above listed condi ti011s, (2) Tompkins Co. Planning Rcpt. 6 :56 PM Healy Slater spoke regarding the rrompkins County Planning Department about subdivisions that don't meet the best use of land. He stated he does not agree with. He does not see where their cominents are appropriate and feels it is Something to think about as the board is revimw the long range Flan. l3. Caldwell# Stated we use W have a minor subdivision reg and a major but wQ don't anymore and thinks this is s()mcthing the board seeds to think about. H. Stater: Agreed with '13arbara. D. Weinstehu Asked what the difference between it major and minor subdivision - B. Caldwell* Sometimes in some municipalities any time you divide off a lot it triggers a subdivision process. It's called a minor one. H. Slater: In the Village it is lesL, than one lot.. Any further division of any pa reel except for a lot line adjustment i5 an exempt activity. In the Village, any dissolution of property requires approval That's a minor subdivision. And a major subdivision would be a certain number oI" lots or the extension of "mu11idpal services is a major subdivision. If you look it has no impaot on intercommunity relations but then they mace that recominendation. D. Weinstein* This is our cop} and these are the place they think we're not rnteeting our own standards, H. Slater: Yes, and I disagree, 13. Caldwell& As far as the question of how nouch time it takes for reviewing every lot change, I think there are solve people who preferred a longer period of time, H. weinsteiiu: Are there that many lot changes? H. Slater: There's 5800 + parcels in the town o F Dryden. Ho often does somebody sell a lot ol� land? You may want a threshold tor, instance If You sell a 10 acre lot stili its exempt just like under our regular subdi vision. There definitely needs to be some sort c threshold established. ,1. Laquatra: What would the County have wanted us to do with the Carter ease" H. Slater; That letter is totally off the wall as there is nothing you could do with it except say; no site could not sell that Io1. J. Laquatra; Feels the Board should respond to this Ietter- B. Caldwell. It rni ht be helpful to wri te Tompkins County a letter regarding the time of the FR meetings offered and the criticism given to the Town. Also include in the letter an invitation to them and Mr, Marx to attend a Planning Board incohng to explain their comments, YC k k ik 7k 7k'k'i�' k:F Jk le'k 7k �e'k'� �Ir iF ie �s'k 7k�e Ye I: ale ib 7k'k A' 7k'k k�fr * le'k 7k �e'k k�fr ;k �e'k 7k 71r'k # �r f'k �k'k 5k9F # jle �'k 7k'k'+k.F # Ir� k �e'k'i� (3) August Mirl11tes 7: t 7 PM On a motion by Joy , Laq Uatra and seconded by Tom Hatfield, the ininutes from the August 29, 2002 meeting were unanimously approved subject to typos, * 4;*************************************** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** (4) Miscellaneous Business 7:19 PM Torn 1- 1atficld requested to be excused from the'November meeting and Chairperson Cal dwelI approved, 7:20 PM Chairperson Caldwell stated the meeting time for future meetings wi11 be 7:00prn — gr 00 pin starting next month. 'i� *jk #�'e *9e *Ye�L'Ys'k #�I: +k��lek+k *Ye'� *�F# ale# �e3k+ kyr9k�L '9s'k�k * #�'e,k9r�k'kyr'k'k A dr�Ir�le* ekk�L 'Yt'k�k *:r�'e�F *�r�k�YYt'k5k kit #31e (5) Long Range Plan 7:20 PM Started. Cliapter 5 of the long range plan. G. Frantz: Asked if the town has too much land allocated for growth in the future. There are other reasons 1 would like to s(art out on this discussion is because as this discussion has progressed, I'm really more and in ore rethinking this proposal ofthc amount of acreage for residential developrncnt in and around the Tillage. 1 don't Know i1 -we need this much suburban residential or I f some Of this should be colored orange for rural residential_ ,I. >Lal uatra: Part of the discussion, George, was under the PCPrll at] on projections you based this on, you would need that but David brought up the point that we're not going to have that much and 1 Went t() the census ehSIte to sec the]Ir I)opulation projection and wanted to sec hoer far down that went and it only wen( to the County level I it doesn't go to the town level. l wonder if you could explain to us what the basis 1'6r those Projections. Maybe we could come to same middle ground, G. Frantz* well, my projections were, again 1 consider them the worse case scenario. Let 1-ne just say one tiling, the amount of acreage on the neap that is in red, 2,650 acres, that's enough room for an average four dwellings per acre, nine to ten thousand plus homes. We're thinking in terins of 1,270 as a projection for these dwellings over the next 20 years, In this Flan wCrc looking at accommodating upwards of 1,270 new dwellings total ire the next 2 0 years, So, if you were to Conk at one d el Iing per acre, we're only talking 1,200 acres of land. One role of thumb, multiply that by three and you have 3,600 aeres needed. The reason there is that rule of thumb is you don't want to say, " Okay, there ai-e 1,270 new dwel Iings coining and we're going to allocate exactly that much land" because what happens is land Values in areas designated for growth skyrocket and you totally defeat the purpose. So, generally the rule of thumb is to allocate three times the amoun( of land you think you're going to need to that particular residential land use_ .D. Weinstein: So that's what this plan is for. G. Frantz: We 11, this doesn't really becau,L;e all together in the town there's about 3,300 acres of rural reside-ntial land allocated here_ That divided by two is roughly 1,650 new clwullings. So, all together there's 6,000 acres of land on this map, undeveloped land; that's an important note, allocated to the suburban residential and rural residential, .1. La uatra: So, did you, in forrtrulaitirig a plan thin, come up with the acreage to devote to suburban residential and rural residential and then calculate out the numl)er of houses? G. Frantz: No, I started with the number of houses. T. Hatfield. 1 just want to make sure I understand ixhat's at the root of your concern, is it the nuinber of unitL> this allows For growth which i excessive or is it if w e adopt the plan that provides excessive acreagQ the people that own that acreage because it's not designated for this residential development as opposed to rural residential as opposed to something else? J. La uatra: -NQo it's about the concern that David brought up- D. weitlstciri: My concern was that if we Overestimate how much growth we're going to need, we plan for extra growth and that essentially to encourage a certaiii amount of growth you °re relaxing certain rules You might walit to put in place to otherwise restrict the growth - That. may make the land more attractive in Dryden and instead of just accommodating growth that's occurring ail over the county we actually w1nd up stealing people away from other areas in the County like what happened in Lansing over tale last ten years. in Lansing's case; the people were moving out of the city into Lansing wh1ch didn't benefit the County in general simply because it vas the City's toss and Lansing's gain, J. La uatra: rely point to Dave was that those houses did not remain v ant, . 1Frant : y methodology is very simple, 1 took the average population growth in the Town of Dryden 1% our decades since 1960. Just average nut. that and the growth over the last 40 years came to, on average, 1,540 new residents per decade and I am assuming that is going to continue, T, Hatfield: 1 would look at that number and look backwards that would make sense as a projection until then you put up against it the Cornell campus and Lansing is tilled up. l see an issue starting to occur on the outskirts of Dryden and Vania is feeling it alreadyr Then the next questaon is how to deal with the traffrc pop ulution issues, G. Frantz: The other thing about this area that con cenis me is the growth in this area brings a pretty hefty pri ce tag in terms of infrastructure costs hecaxuse it includes the need for a connector road- I'm woridenno, again this is based on the last meeting you were at Tour, would it be a better investmel't to lets say pull this red back closer to the Village of Dryden so you don't have the 3n ass ive residential development that would generate the traffic that would generate the need for that connector and maybe invest that nioney in a connection between Rte 38 and Johnson Road- T. Hatfield: 1 think it's a viable question but the other thing is I would hesitate to reduce the areas that. are in that light brown without considerable thought to it along those lines because that connector road may be required but to me w hoever's d eve] o1) ing that is haying for that, not the Town- The developer has co put in that infrastructure. . Frantz* This was envisioned as being built by the Town - D. Weinstein: Why not, as To in suggi sted, have a whole hunch of subdivisions so the developer has to build the infrastructure? G. Frantz: A couple reasons why I see this being an expenditure for the public sector as opposed to (leVelopers is 1) it's to have controlled access with curb cuts grid ) we're talk In g about a wider right of way to ensure the homes. that are built on either side are better buffered from the noise of the traffu: on it and also, it's not just serving this area, it's also serving this area over here and reducing the impact on Ferguson Road to the West.- So that's why I saw this connector road as actually being at the public'; expense. D. Weinstein: But IF it's built in subdivision sequenced subdivisions.. that first subdivision inakec that connection and there the subsequent subdivisions connect into the infrastructure of the first one - T. Hatfield: I have a hard time: seeing that being the public sector responsihilitu. 1 think planning for those types of infrastructure so that there set aside for that and that 'Ventualify is one thin; but don't see why the taxpayer pays for the cost of dcvclopment. G. Frantz* Lout again, this ro ad, I think you're going to run into problems just from legal standpoint in saddling these developers with the cost of this road when in Fact the traffic they re gencrating is only going to be perhaps ten or twenty percent of the total tragic on that road. 'r. Hatrield: That's my poi n - One of the issues that we've learn ed In E111s FIollow and other parts of the town, is there 1s a deft Cite need in residential areas for mr iIfi c caIrning- D. Weinstein: Why inake it go al l the way through between Ferguson and Rte. 366e? -r. Hattietd: Yr )u'rc saying that we are going to add more traffic if that was developed on the existlTig infrastructure and 1 understand that and we've identified one of the things that needs to be dealt with is how to deal with some of that; particularly the truck traffic that's now on Este, 13 and I can see where it would Irlakc sense as a public expenditure to put some sort ofe1%fort into developing a truck thoroughfare and that has nothing to do ,with tllCS resl[lentIa, housing, W ithin those residential areas, I don't see where it makes any sense to try to create a public highway. Ifanytljing, people want less of that. G. Frantz: Again, highway is not the carrec:t term as the idea is Chat this road L s only going to be two lanes wide and designed for a maximum speed of 40145 miles per hour. It can even be designed f.rrr a maximum speed of30 lrriles per hour. T. Hatfield: In that case, people won't use it as a thoroughfare. . Frantz. Well, no they would because it would be a quicker connection to Rte. 13 becaw e-, again, if you have all the de velopianent in here, it's going to he causing congestion on Fergusori Read- Or there's WAYS Of deSlglllllg it, foil you bend Ferguson Read to the north, you just reconstruct it so that the direct route is in that direction, T+ Hatfield: 1 guess any response to that would be a aeries oil Four way stop sign, which help slow traffic down and yr�u bring it to 13 at one paint, not multiple points and you put a traffic signal in there so you've got a lot better control. I think the intersection at Fergu�;on Toad and 13 is a disaster, . Frantz: Yes, and this would be the intersection with the traffic. signal. B. Caldwell: We talked happily abiout traffic signals but we know we have a serious problem in Varna, for instance, trying to get any soil of traffic signal where all of Freese Road and Mt. Pleasant traffic which feeds al the Hollow for us- D. Weinstelm Can we ,step knack and try to ge-t a handle on how many units are allocated to each of these. It would help me to make a chart, Okay, here's an amount of land 1-ve have iri brown and here's hove many housing units that would accommodate. The numbers are in the plan but they 'ime spread around. N. Huffman+ J'ni still not totally comfbrtabIc with averaging the growth the way you did, George, because of the permutation in the 6 0's where you hacl tajiis 84% growth in residence and I don't know if that's really valid when looking at the future as we are. Is it more valid to look at the growth we've had since 1980? The grand growth in the 60's is extraordinary and for the life of me 1 certainly can't think of anything in our town that's going to cause that type of growth again. T. Hatfield; We11, I can give you a couple of scenarios to ponder. In the 60's what happened is some of these subdivisions that use to be farm fields materialized and became reality and that helped push that population grr)Wth, Then we got into another decadelera and the gi)O th inigrateci. You have to look at those Qourity projections - . Frantz: l f you take the average. population growth per decade between 1980 and 2000, it works out to be 688 persons per decade which is 60 people per }scar. B. Caldwell; That's not what we've been seeing - G. Frantz. The only speci11 -cs I get into th ere °s a lot of grow it, in the ikrest Dr deni heldon Road area all the way over to Peruvillc Load. At four dwelling units per acre. the undeveloped land in the red here has the potential Fur 6,400 dwell ings +/= per decade on the average. The orange (rural residential) is one dwelling every two acres (?80); 500 in the West Dryden area; 2 70 Snyder Road. T. Hatfield: There is plenty ofroorn in this plan right now to aceommodwate any amount of growth to occur fi >r a good long period of time. I would rather 11ave it in place as what happens is that growth occurs randomly and one cif the issues we've dealt with is we've got an Ithaca Produce or C'askey's next to a rural. residential home and what %ve can do is prevent this from happening in the future. Fin less concerned with the potential number of units because the econo]ny will take care of that. 1 Would like to see us change some of the oramge areas back into green. G. Frantz: Just a couple of things in terms cfrationale here, the reason why I'm proposing this is yes, Freeville has sewer and this is actually up hill so it's all gravity down to the waste water treatinent. plant, one and that is of course opposed to these people will be more likely to drive west and south or north to get to work ire the inoming 4nd reverse in the afternoon, and the third reason is we want more business for downtown Freeville, These people are more li kely to run dowel here for a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk than if they lived over here. D. welastein: We need to come up with a vehicle or an image for how that kind o1� expanded (Ievelopinent in those brown areas would occur yet not change the character. We all know this is going 1.0 come up in the public meetings, people are going to see that and they're going to suddenly envision the apartment i�c>mplexes around Pyramid f'[all or something like that and say, "Oh, 1 don't want this surrounding the Village of Dryden aim Freeville ", we have to come rip with a vtehlcle that you can get greater density without creating soinetlung like that an) und these populations. G. Frantr„ After the last meeting I weft back about four to five years ago and had put together a presents #ion to the West fiill Civic Association in the City where they have this 37140 acre tract of ]and, Which i s roughly 10,000 square foot minimal lot size, and worked out in m calculations to 3 113 dwellings per acre when you take into account the park and open space dedication anti roans and everything_ If you zone for 10,000 square foot rntnimal lot size, you're looking at 3.3 duel ling per acre. I took that 37 Eicres of land and showed them what the proposed or the original cc >rlVe]jtIonal subdivision would look like covering the entire thing and then I took- the footprint of the townhouses up at Deer Run and applied them as a cluster subdivision on the same site and polnted out what the savings were in tcnns of infrastructure. Again, it's the same density_ T. Hatfield: But you get an entirely different feeling Iiving ire it_ You get the advantage o1: the efficiencies of the lower infrastructure cost and not only the construction dollars but the maintenance dollars, D. Weinstain: In the rural residential, the orange areas, there's you said 3,350 potential acres and that was supposed to be two acres so that's 1,500 tinits. So, eIJ � potentially Creating a SIrUatton where we're not petting any pressure on people building cluster subdivisions in the brown area because there's plenty of room to go its the other direction. B. Caldwell# Economics though are such that they're likely to i1' they think there's a market For their. D. Weinstein: But doesn't a market be created when the alternative options are MITONV B. Caldwell: Only under extreme circunistances- . Frantz: I think the key to getting cluster subd1vision to happen is for the town to adopt policies and regulations that encourage it. T. Hatfield: 1 would agree with that because of the economics- The cost of development, the infrastructure leas to be accounted for by the developer who will dictate that because they're going to want to balance the number of units against the infrastructure cost. B. Caldwell: But they have to think. of it terms of inarketabi city. T. Hatfield: That's right so it ultimately has to have a price paint that is saleable and attractive in the marketplace and an en virornnent that i-nake* it more eattractive than the other competing hinnes they are competing against. G. Frantz: Any developer in Tompkins County that can put a three bedroom house on the market for $90,000 in an area that has public amenities, the world is going to beat a path to their door. T. Hatfield: The economies will take care of that, G. Frantz: Is the consensus to ieaye the brown alone and not cut back on it^ T. Hatfield: My voice would be to agree with that and see where we could tighten tLp can the gold, I would much rather See us try to encourage that developrnent around the residential centers, the vi Iages and the hamlets and al low for lots of growth and put some .port of cluster housing structure in place so you can snake it affordable. �1ffbi —dable housing I S not available for young couples in this area, D. Wei nstejin The argument For reducing the browrr a little bit would be if we envision a large scale development going in tomon-ow at Irish SeltleMent. So then visually at icasl for now It doe:L look like it's connected to the center of the village, O. Frantz. My thinking in terms ofoorndensing this is that actually this area is really more conservac1 ve if you think of the people wino are driving through the village. T. Hatfield& From a traffic iroint of view it would make seise to lower the density on that side of town, there's no question about it. Plus, the closer you get to the lake you °re closer to wetlands and the swampy area rap there too with the trail, The other argument is you have, public water and sever Tight there in that area. Jf you lower the density for sure you can't afford to put the infrastructure in- It's an environmental issue more than a population issue in that area, . Caldwell: So, we'll have George add wliat he said about the cluster housing and officially close tl}e meeting at 8:50 pin, TOWN OF DRYDFN PLANNING BOARD WEDNL+ "SDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2002 IMEN IBERS PRESENT: Chairperson Barbara Caldwell, Martin Christofferson, Joe Laquatra, Jr., Natan Huffman, Time Hatfield, and David Weinstein ALSO PRESENT: Flenry Slater, Ted Lauve, P.E., Mark , George Frantz, and Penny Lisi — Recording Secretary AGENDA: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) is ki�rirdc�Irir��cir�k�rdkd :�IcsF9:9cietik�eir�kiii�k; Best Run Subdivision Final Plat Review Tompkins Co. Planning Department August Minutes Miscellaneous Business Long Range Plan Fik�4r9i "k�ll-ai"k9t�k�c�r�t'9c�isY9t* kk�9cir#' �k�r' k�1r�e7ti9citst�t *�kkik *1Fic�lrie�k *ie (1) Best Run Subdivision Final Plat Review 6:39 PM Chairperson Caldwell opened the hearing. Read legal notice posted in the Ithaca Journal regarding the final plat review for the Best Run Subdivision. Asked Ted Lauvc, P.E. to update the board on recent activities. T. Lauve: Stated they prepared septic system, water system and design for individual sights of the nine lots remaining. Stated they have submitted the plans to the health department who, in turn, had some comments that he has taken care of John Andersson of the Health Department is ready to approve the drawings. H. Slater: Stated he had forgotten to pass that information on to the board, but, in fact, Mr. Andersson is ready to approve the drawings. D. Weinstein: Asked if Mr. Andersson has seen the response to their comments. T. Lauve: Yes. H. Slater: The only reason Mr. Andersson has not signed the drawings yet is because they are at the Town Hall, B. Caldwell: Asked about the drainage anchor retention situation. T. Lauve: The town engineers reviewed the drainage and had some comments. He put in a cut off pitch along the northern boundary line to where the town is and drains the entire property that goes to the northeast. H. Slater: The board has a letter dated .September 5 "' that says they are totally satisfied with things. B. Caldwell: Had a call 6-om the town attorney this morning regarding how the maintenance of the drainage area on lot 7 was being addressed and apparently there's been agreement, if it's satisfactory to the town. board to go along with, that the responsibility Would be with the C'"tw owner of that property though the town could step in, they would not have the obligation to. T. Lauve: Correct, we put the language of that on the plat and plans. All comments on these drawings have been addressed and Henry can veri fy. B. Caldwell: Any other issues we need to address? 1,1. Slater: Have you concluded SEQR on September 201h of last year, you prepared a spcedies application and filed that? T. Lauve: That's correct; it's on file with Albany. B. Caldwell: What is the road status'? H. Slater: The road status plans are acceptable. You have a letter from Jack Bush dated June 25'h that says lie satisfied with the road plans. They obviously had to build them and deed them to the'rown. I believe everything is in order and John signing and the Town boards' approval of the wording of lot 7 according to the attorney. B. Caldwell: Are there any other questions from members of the Plan -ning Board? D. Weinstein: Can you please send a copy of the speedies application to the town. H. Slater: i believe there is one in the file. B. Caldwell: Asked Ted if he had any further questions of the board? T. Lauve: No. D. Weinstein: These pieces of land at the end of the road that we asked you to shorten the road up, what is the ow- nership of that'? T. Lauve: That will be deeded over to the town. 6:40 PM On a motion by David Weinstein and seconded by Joe Laquatra, the hearing was closed unanimously. Conditions were as follows: 1) Road built and deeded to the Town 2) Arrangements as outlined by the attorney for Lot 7 are satisfactory to the Town 3) Health Department signature 4) Drainage plans built as indicated 6:50 PM On a motion by Joe Laquatra and seconded by David Weinstein, the final plat was unanimously approved with the above listed conditions. : �r�: �l�rikdc* iFst�r* yc�: ikslr�rkyl• k�k�IcyFick�ieYicit�lr�idk* �tik�Frie�ick�4r4i�irirskit* �k�riksk: Ei: �lrie9 : * *�4tekot�r�r�lrir�k * *�r�k* (2) Tompkins Co. Planning Dept. 6:56 PM Henry Slater spoke regarding the Tompkins County Planning Department about subdivisions that don't meet the best use of land. He stated he does not agree with. He does not see where their comments are appropriate and feels it is something to think about as the board is review the long range plan. • B. Caldwell: Stated we use to have a minor subdivision reg and a major but we don't anymore and thinks this is something the board needs to think about. li. Slater: Agreed with Barbara. D. Weinstein: Asked what the difference between a major and minor subdivision. B. Caldwell: Sometimes in some municipalities any time you divide off a lot it triggers a subdivision process. It's called a minor one. H. Slater: in the Village it is less than one lot. Any further division of any parcel except for a lot line adjustment is an exempt activity. In the Village, any dissolution of property requires approval. That's a minor subdivision. And a major subdivision would be a certain number of lots or the extension of municipal services is a major subdivision. If you look it has no impact on intercommunity relations but then they make that recommendation. D. Weinstein: This is our copy and these are the place they think we're not meeting our own standards. H. Slater: Yeas, and i disagree. B. Caldwell: As far as the question of how much time it takes for reviewing every lot change, I think there are some people who preferred a longer period of time. D. Weinstein: Are there that many lot changes? 1.1. Slater: There's 5800 + parcels in the town of Dryden. How often does somebody sell a lot of land? You may want a threshold for, instance if you sell a 10 acre lot still its exempt just like under our regular subdivision. There definitely needs to be some sort of threshold established. J. Laquatra: What would the County have wanted us to do with the Carter case? H. Slater: That letter is totally off the wall as there is nothing you could do with it except say; no she could not sell that lot. .l. Laquatra: Feels the Board should respond to this letter. B. Caldwell: It might be helpful to write Tompkins County a letter regarding the time of the SEQR meetings offered and the criticism given to the Town. Also include in the letter an invitation to them and Mr. Marx to attend a Planning Board meeting to explain their comments. Yt�rktk�kIr�riFk�eit9eiriF9e7e' k9riFtkkirslr�eit�r�r5Y9e: F��eJ ek�rhkikIr�eksY�ek9e: FoY* ic�kitslr�Irik�r :ca��eieak�F *tk�ciFilir'k1r (3) August Minutes 7:17 PM On a motion by Joe Laquatra and seconded by Tom Hatfield, the minutes from the August 29, 2002 meeting were unanimously approved subject to typos. i (4) Miscellaneous Business 7:19 PM Torn Hatfield requested to be excused from the November meeting and C'hairperwrn Caldwell approved. 7:20 PM Chairperson Cal dweII stated the ineetirig time for future meetings will he 7:00pm — 9 00p n} starting next month. (5) Long Plunge Plan 7420 PM Started Chapter 5 of the long range plan. G. Frantz; Asked if the town has too inuch and allocated for growth in the future. There are other reasons I would like to stet out on this di cussion is because al.') this discussion has progressed, I'm really more. and more rethinking this proposal of the amount of acreage for residential development in and around the Village, I don't know if a need this much suburban residential or if some of this should be colored orange for rural residential, J. La atra: Part of the d Iscussi u on, George, was under the population projections ymi bused this on, you Wavle] need that but David brought up the. point that we're not �oirig to have that much and I went to the census website to see their population projection and wanted to see how tar down that went and it only went to the County level, it doesn't ,go to the town level. I wonder if you could explain to us what the basis for those projections, Maybe we could coins to some middle ground. G. Frantz. Wel I, my projections were, again I consider theirs the worse case scenario, Get me just say one thing, the amount of acreage on the map that is in red, 25650 acres, that's t rnoijg'h room for an average four (I we] I irigs per acre, riine to ten thousand plus homes. W'e're thinking in terms of 1,270 as a projection for these dwellings over the next 20 years, in I.his plan we're looking at accommodating upwards of 1,270 new dwellings total in the next 0 yearsr o, if you were to look at one dwell ing per' acre, we're only talking 1,200 acres of land. One rule of thumb, multiply that 6y three and you have 3600 acres needed. The reason there is that rule of thumb is you don't want to say, "Okay, there are 1,270 new dwellings coining and we're going to allocate exactly that much land" because what happens is land values in areas designated for growth skyrocket and you totaiIy defeat the purpose, S o, generally the rule of'thumb is to allocate three times the amount of land you think you're going to need to that particular residential land use, D. Weinstein. So that's what this plan is for. G. Frantz.: well, this doesn't really because all together in the town there's about 3,300 acres of rural residential ]and allocated here. That • divided by two is roughly 1,650 new dweliings, S o, a I I together there's 6,000 acres ofIand on this reap. u ndelyeei o ped Iand, that's an Important note, allocated to the suburban residential and rural residential. J. La uatra: So, did you, in fotinulating a plan then, come up with the acreage to devote to suburban residential and rural residential and then calculate out the number ofhouses7 G. Frantz: No , I started with the number of I10 41SeS. T. Hatfield: I j- ust want to make sure I understand what's at the root of your concern, is it the number of units thi s rxl lows for growth which is excessive or is it if we adopt the plan that provides excessive acreage the people that own that acreage because 11.58 not designated for this residential development as opposed to rural residential as opposed to something else: .1. La uatra: No, it's about the concern that David brought up. D. Weinstein: My concern was that if we overestimate how much growth we're going to need, we p i a n for extra growth and that essentially to encourage a certain amount of growth you're relaxing certain rules you might want to put in place to otherwise restrict tlhe growth. That may make the land more attractive in Dryden and instead of ju,t accommodating growth that's GCCUrnng all over the county we actually wind up stealing people away from other areas in the County like what happened in Lansing over the last ten years. In Lansing 169 case, the people were moving out of the city into Lansing which didn't benefit the Cc unty in general simply because it was the City's loss and Laasing's grtirn, J. La uatra: My point to David was that those houses did not remain vacant. G. Frantz: My methodology is very simple. I took the average population growth in the Town .o f. Dryden four decades since 1960- ,lust average out that and the growth over the last 40 years carne to, on average. 1,540 new residents per decade and I and assuming that is going to continue - T. Hatfield: I would look at that number and look backwards that would make sense as a projection until then you put up against it the Cornell campus and Lansing is filled rap, I see an issue .start ing to occur on the outskirts of Dryden and Vania is feeling it already, 'Then the next question is how to deal with the traffic population Issues I G. Frantz: The other thing about this area that concerns lane is the growth iii this are i brings a pretty hefty price tag in forams of infrastructure costs because it includes the need for a connector road. I'm ondering, again this is based on the last meeting you were at Tom, would it be a better investment to lets say pull this red back closer to the Village of Dryden so you don't have the massive residential development that would generate the traffic that would generate the need for #hat connector and maybe invest. that 1-norrey in a connection between R.te 38 and Johnson Bond, 1 T. Hatfield: i think it's a viable question but the other thing is I would hesitatf: to reduce the areas that arc in that light brown without considerable thought to it along those lines because that connector road may be required but U) one whoevei-'s developing that is paying for that, riot the Town- The developer has to put in that inftastructurc. G. Frantz* This was envisioned as being built by tht 'Town. D. weinstein: Why not, as Torn suggested, have a whop bunch of subdivisions so the developer has it) build the infrastructure? G. Frantz: A couple reasons why I see this being an expenditure for the public sector as opposed to developers is l) it's to have controlled access with curb cuts and ) we're talking about a wider right of way to ensure the homes that arc built on either side are better buffered from the noise of the traffic on it and also, it's not just serving this area, it's also serving this area over here and reducing the impact on Ferguson Road to the West. So that's why 1 saw this connector road as actually being at the public's expense. D. Weinstein# But if it's built in subdivision sequenced subdivisions, that first subdivision makes that connection and then the subsequent subdivisions connect irtto the irnfi-astructure of the first one - T. Hatfield.& l have a hard time seeing that being the public sector responsibility, I think planning for those types of infrastructure so that there set aside for that and that evein tua I ity is one thing but 1 don't sec why the taxpayer pays for the cost of development, G. Frantz: But again, this road, I think you've going to run into probleins just from legal standpoint i]a saddling these developers with the cost of this road when in fact the traffic they're generating is only going"It) be perhaps ten or twenty percent of the total traffic on that road, T. Hatfield. That's my point. One of the issues that we've leameri in Ellis Ho I o w and other parts of the town, is there i N, a definite need in residential areas for traffic calming. D. weinstelm Why make it go all the way through between Ferguson and Rte - 366? T. Hatficid: You're saying that we are going to add snore traffic if that was developed on the existing infrastructure and l understand that and we've identified one of the things that needs to be dealt with is how to deal with some of that; particularly the truck traffic that's now on Rte. 13 and 1 can see where it would make sense as a public expenditure to put son,e sort ofelTort into developing a truck thoroughfare and that has nothing to do with this residential housing. Withm those residential areas, I don't see where it snakes an sense to tee+ to create a public. ICI hWay. If anything, people want less of that, G. Frantz: AgaT11, highway is not the correct term as the idea is that this road is only going to be two lanes wide and designed fora maximum speed of 40/45 m ices per hour. It can even be designed for a maximum speed of30 111 iles per hoLir. { 7`. Hatfield: In that case, People won't use it as a thoroughfare. G. Frantz; We] 1, no they would because it would be a quicker connection to Rte. 13 because, again, If You have all the development in here, it's going to be causing congestion on Ferguson Road, Or there's ways c designing it, for instance, you bend Ferguson Road to the north, you just reconstruct it so that the direct route is in that direction. T. Hatfield: 1 guess my response to that would be a series of four way scup signs which help slow traffic down acid you bung it to 13 at one point, not rnuItiple poin #s and you put a traffic signal in there c;o you've got a lot better control. I think the intersection at Ferguson Road and 13 is a disaster_ G.F rantzr.: Yes, and this would be the intersection with the traffic signal, B. Caldwell: We talked happily about traffic signals but we know we have a serious problem in Varna, t�or instance, trying to get any sort of traffic signal where all of Freese Road and Mt. pleasant traffic which feeds all the Hollow for us. A Weinsteim Can we step back and try to get a handle on how many units are al located to each of these, It would help me to make a chart, Okay, here's an amount of land we have in brown acid Here's hog {+ many housing units that would accommodate" The numbers are in the plan but they're spread around. N. Huffmam I'm Still not totally comfortable with averaging the growth the way you dirt, George; because of the perinutation in the 6O's where you had this 84% growth in residence and l don't know if that's really valid when looking at the future as we are_ 1s it more valid to look at the growth we've had singe 1980` The grand growth in the 60's is extraordinary and for the life ofrne I certainly can't think of anything; in our town #h at' s going to cause that type of growth again. T. Hatfield: V1 ell, l can giVe you ri couple c?f "scenari os to ponder, In the 0's what happened is some 0 F these subdivisions that use to be farm Ii ell ds materialized and became reality and that helped push that population growth. Then we got into another decad&era aria the growth migrated. You have to look at those county I)rojec #inns. G. Frantz: If you take the average population growth per decade between 1980 and 20001 it works out to be 688 persons per decade which is 60 people per year. 0. Cmildwe-11L That's not what we've been seeing. G. Frantz: The only specifics l get into there's a lot of growth in the Nest Dryden Shcldori Road area all the way over to Peruville Road. At four dwelling units per acre, the undeveloped land in the red here has the froten #ial for 6,400 d el Iings t- m per decade on the average. The orange (rural residential) is one dweIIIng every two acres (280), 500 in the West Dryden area; 270 Snyder load. T. Hatfield: There, is }plenty of room in this plan right now to accommodate any amount of growth to occur for a good long period of time- i would rather have it in place as what happens is that growth r,ccurs rando my and one of the issues we've dealt with is we've got an Ithaca Produce or askey's next to a rural residential home and what we. can do i�; pi -twent this from happening in the hiture. I'm less concerned with the potential number of units because the econornY w i I I take care of that, I would like to see us change some of the Orange areas back into green. G. Frantz: Just a couple of things in terms of rationale here, the reas011 Why I'm proposing this is yes, FreeviIle has sewer and th1 s is actually 41p hill so it's all gravity down to the waste water treatment plant, one and that is of course opposed to these people will be r&nore likely to drive west and south or north to get to work in the niom1ng and reverse 1n the afternoon, and the. third reason is eve want more business for downtown FreeviIIe. These people are more likely to run down Bert for a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk thali if they lived over here. - D.Weinstein. We need to come up with a vehicle or an image for how that kind of expanded development in those brown areas would occur yet not change the character. We all know this is go] Ilg to come up irl the public meetings, people are going to see that and 1.hey're groing to suddenly envision the apartment complexes around Pyramid Mall or something like that 4rld say, "Oh, 1 don't want this surrounding the 1 -Ilage of Dryden or Freeville ", we have to come up with a vehi�le that you can get greater density without creating something like that around these populations, G. Frantz, Afler the last meeting l went back about four to five years ago and had put together a presentation to the hest Hill Civic Association in the City where they have this 37 {40 acre tract of land, which I roughly 10,000 square foot minimal lot sire, and worked out in m calculations to 3 113 dweIIillgs per acre when you take into account the park and open space dedication and roads and eVerything. if you rorie for 10,000 square foot niinimal let sire, you're looking at 3.3 dwelling per acre- i took that 37 acres of land and showed then, what the proposed or the original conventionaI subdivision would Iook like covering the entire thing and then I took the footprint ofthe townhouses up at Deer Run and applied there as a cluster subdivision on the same site and pointed out ,vhat the ,savings were in terms of1nfrastructure, Again, it's the same density. T. F .iatfiel& But you get an entirely different feeling living in it, You get the advantage of the efficiencies of the Iower in frastructure cost and not only the construction dollars but the maintenance dollars: D. Weinstein: In the rural residential, the orange areas, there's you said 3,350 potential acres and that was suppos(A to be two acres so that's .. 1,500 units. So, we're potentially creating a situation where we're not putting any pressure on people building duster subdivisions in the brown area because there's plenty of room to go in the other direction. B. Caldwell: Economics though are Luce that they're Iikely to if they think there's a market for them- D. Weinsteiw But doesn't a market be created when the alternative options are narrow? B. Caldwell•. Only under extreme circumstances. G. Frantz: I think the key to getting cluster subdivision to happen is for the town to adopt policies and regulations that enwurage it_ T. Hatfield: L would agree wi th that because of the economics. The cost of development, the infrastructure has to be accounted for by the developer who will dictate that because they're going to wart to halarce the nuniber of unit;+ against. the infrastructure cast. B. Caldwell: But they have to think of it terns of marketability, T. Hatfield: That's right so it ultimately has to have a price point that is saleable and attractive in the marketplace and an environment that makes it more attradlve than the other competing homes they are. competing against. G. Frantz: Any developer in Tompkins County that can put a three bedroom house on the market for $90,000 in an area that has public amer1[1es, the word is gong ter heat a path k) their do() r. T. )Hatfield: The economics will take care of that, G. Frantz: is the consensus to leave the brown alone and not cut hack on it? T. Hatfield: My voice wou Id be to agree with that and see where we could tighten up on the gold_ l wo uld much rather se-e us try to encourage that development around the residential centers, the +IIIago and the hamlets and allow for lots oil" rowth and put some sort of cluster housing; structure in place so you can make it affordable. Affordable housing is not available for young couples in this area, D. Weinsteim The argument for reducing the brown a little bit would be if we envisiun a lame scale development going in tomorrow at Irish cttlement_ o then visually at least for now it doesn't look like it's ccmnected to the ci 3mte-r of the village. G. Frantz: My thinking in tarns of condensing this is that actually this area is really inore conse-neative if you th ink of the people who are driving through the viJlagc, T. Hatfield: J�rom a traffic point Of V1 it would make sense to lower the density on that side of town, there's no question about it. Plus, the closer yoip get to the Iake you're closer to wetlands and the swampy area up there too with the trail, The other argument is you have public water and sewer right therein that area_ lfyou lover the density for sure you can't atTord to put the infrastructure in. • It's an environmental issue more than a population issue in #hat area. B. Caldwell* Soo we'll have George add what he said about the cluster housing and officially clow the meeting at 8,50 prrt_ • TOWN''OF DRYDEN PLANNING BOARD RAFT THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2002 ME MBERS PRESENT: Chairper�;On Barbara Caldwell, Martin Christofferson, Jae Laquatra, Jr_, Natan Ruffman. and .David Weinstein. ALSO PRESI±'.NT: Henry Slater, Marianne Carter, Bernard Cornelius, George Frantz, arW Penny Lisi — Recoirdipg SFcretary AGENDA: (1) Carter Finai Mat blearing ( ) Coiffne>!ius Final Plat Hearing (3) Lone Rajti�e Plan Discussion ***AR *;;;%k4 ;*** * * *-11* 0 *;k ***A; k * *4 *-P I** * *AF**3F4W- 6 *A*;g * * * * * *:V *%k%W3** I) Carter Final Plat bearing B. Caldwell: Opened final plat hQaring for Marianne Carter at 6_37 pm and read the legal notice into the, record that was pasted in the Ithaca J timed. She then} requested Ivls. Carter review her request for Mr. Huffman as he was absent from the rcvious meekmg' M. Carter: Briefly rtviewed her request for a five acre: subdivision? on Sheldon load for t r&, Hut&nan.. D, Wcinstein: Asked -1 f it had originally been looked at as a subdivislop and Arts. Carter stated i E a- not_ M. Carter; Stated she sold three lots last year, a ten acre: lot last month and nov"? wants to sell the last .five acre lot, DL Weinstein; Asked if, at an carficr request, this board approved ber for a subdivision_ M. Christofferson: Stated no, she was exempt from subdivision until this point clue to size of the lot and time frame of selbug it, R Slater: No d if she had chose to do nothing with this Jot for rive years, she would not bave had to request this subdivision, B. Caldwell: Asked if thterq. were any fl�rther clu�stians; Ihere were none. On a motion by Mr_ Christoffmon and seconded by Mr . i'iuffman the hearing was closed at 6:43 pm, All were in favor. B. Caldwell: bead the Short Env iro nmental Assessrucnt from into the record dated August 1.2 2002. a. Slater: reviewed Type 1 threshold briefly for the board. S. Caldwell: Requested the board review and complete part 2 of the environmental assessment_ The answers were read Irilu the record- . A ,[ar a negatli v. e dec[aration was rnotiorted b-v Ir- Laquatra and sccoaded by I 4-. WeLwteln. All were in favar- ix a motion by Mr. Laquatra aTid seconded by Mr, "einstein die board approved the subdivision as presented - All were in favor. *dc**#rA kok%k 4**- Ark* * *'**A!*ke4e40kAe §4** *fibs* -** *fir *fed** 4 (2 Cornelius 1~Mal ]?tat Bearing B. Caldwell: Opened final plat hearing for Bernard Cornelius at 6:50 prat and .read the legal notice into the record that was posted in [be Ithaca Journal Sloe then rcquested i!,�1r. Cornelius explain, to the board what lie was proposing - B. Cornelius; Stated he is requesting to divide and build tF,ree single family dwelling houses on the proposed property_ He noted he had obtained the driveway outs from the DOT for the three pieces of properry- Stated the land is dry.. D.eInstein: Asked about road frontage - B, Corn l lus: Stated one will be close to tlqLe road and the other two will be substantially set back From the road. M. christofferson: Asked -why the one parcel was so much smaller that the other two. B_ Cornelius: Mated because there needs to be a 00 1'()()t circle'. D. Weinstein: Asked if this was in an Ag DisttiCL BL Cornelius: Did not think it was but was not sure. Ii, Slater: Mated he did not believe it was. D.Ueinslein° Asked what was around the tats. B- Cornelius; Wooded area - M. ChdStofferson; Asked about question #7 on the Short Environmental Asses ijnenC Form. It was written as 3 lots — oue quarter acre each. lI, Slater- Re uestcd Cvlr- Cornelius amends the original application that Mrs- Caldwell had, M:. Amended the applioatio1a to 3 lots = 1.13 Acres, 2.1? acres arXCI 3.12 acres and initialed it- D- einsrje�n; Asked about a small lot on the left. iv. Cornelius: Staled the neighbor had built something and needed a cbiulk of the property and is not a stand alone lot. 13. Caldwell: Asked about the drairnage on this pToperty, B. Cornelius; Mated it was good- There are not streams and ,is at aboat a 5% arade that slopes to ]route 366 where there is a deep da�wh. F . A ,[ar a negatli v. e dec[aration was rnotiorted b-v Ir- Laquatra and sccoaded by I 4-. WeLwteln. All were in favar- ix a motion by Mr. Laquatra aTid seconded by Mr, "einstein die board approved the subdivision as presented - All were in favor. *dc**#rA kok%k 4**- Ark* * *'**A!*ke4e40kAe §4** *fibs* -** *fir *fed** 4 (2 Cornelius 1~Mal ]?tat Bearing B. Caldwell: Opened final plat hearing for Bernard Cornelius at 6:50 prat and .read the legal notice into the record that was posted in [be Ithaca Journal Sloe then rcquested i!,�1r. Cornelius explain, to the board what lie was proposing - B. Cornelius; Stated he is requesting to divide and build tF,ree single family dwelling houses on the proposed property_ He noted he had obtained the driveway outs from the DOT for the three pieces of properry- Stated the land is dry.. D.eInstein: Asked about road frontage - B, Corn l lus: Stated one will be close to tlqLe road and the other two will be substantially set back From the road. M. christofferson: Asked -why the one parcel was so much smaller that the other two. B_ Cornelius: Mated because there needs to be a 00 1'()()t circle'. D. Weinstein: Asked if this was in an Ag DisttiCL BL Cornelius: Did not think it was but was not sure. Ii, Slater: Mated he did not believe it was. D.Ueinslein° Asked what was around the tats. B- Cornelius; Wooded area - M. ChdStofferson; Asked about question #7 on the Short Environmental Asses ijnenC Form. It was written as 3 lots — oue quarter acre each. lI, Slater- Re uestcd Cvlr- Cornelius amends the original application that Mrs- Caldwell had, M:. Amended the applioatio1a to 3 lots = 1.13 Acres, 2.1? acres arXCI 3.12 acres and initialed it- D- einsrje�n; Asked about a small lot on the left. iv. Cornelius: Staled the neighbor had built something and needed a cbiulk of the property and is not a stand alone lot. 13. Caldwell: Asked about the drairnage on this pToperty, B. Cornelius; Mated it was good- There are not streams and ,is at aboat a 5% arade that slopes to ]route 366 where there is a deep da�wh. B. Caldwell: risked NI r_ S1ator if there were going to have to be any special drainage requirernen , H, SIater: Stated there would not be as the property is quite flat. On a motion by Nix. Chr±stolferson and seconded by Mr_ Laquaua the hearing was closed at 7: Of) pm.. All were in favor_ 13. Caldwell: l tiad the Short Envirortnnental assessment from into the record and requested the board review and complete part 2 of the cnvirorxmental assessment. The answer were read into the record. A. motion for a negative declaration was motioned by Mr. Huffman and wl;oaded by fir. C hTistof#`crson, All were in favor_ On a motion by i r. Feinstein and eiecouded by r_ Laquatr'a the board approved the request as preriented. All wtTe in. favor. D. V4einSl'ein.: requested the approval o fc zuinutes be postperrled to the ne't meeting to allow for review and cauections, H, Slater: Stated there is pub I4C hearing sehedufcd for the next rneeTirtg. k�.F *a4�r *i4 #�$ dr7k k�C9k��Y�F�frih ir'Jri4 �kekelr�7k9k �k *� ** #iii k�ek�C7k �C'k�:�kakk # *dc'Ek� *� (3) Lang Range flan Diseussivn 8. Caldwell; Opened the discussion of the long range plan at 7:10 pm. Stated the board left off on page 46 "Public and Semi - Public infrastructure ". G. Frantz, Stated the board can hold off on the section of telecommunications. B. Caldwell, . egardin the water and sewer service:. she asked about the area -s in the Town that they feel is important to be developed to take pressure off of other areas and that there may be responsibility of the Town as a whole to do grin ry lines to certain areas. Stated she did not see this addressed in this section. G, Frantz: The fol]ovaing scniunce was added after the first sentence of the first paragraph: "Some of it however; such as the Pxtension of service into new areas, is W<el;v to be financod •e through the benefit district mechanism or through crams," He also stared he would add a short paragraph at the end-of page 46 saying it=s nei:essary for the Town to be very careful in the staging ofextensiOng C)fpuhiic Water anal sewer, B9 Caldwell: uestianed the first paragraph can page 47 under `Pub ie a1'ety" about the capabilities of existing orgamizations knowing how difficult it Is to get volunteers. She asked if the network is strong enough. N'- Hullxnan., Mated there may have to he other solutions sine} the events of 9/11- Noted most of the organizatioris in the Town are coaxed out with the rniairnum number of people and equipment issues. 0- Frantz: Stated he would put a peri od at the end of - meremental in aaturj�3' and add the senterxce(s) that tries to elaborate as follows= "Current services are considered adequate at the present levels with the present popular ion but if current trends in the recruitment of and retention of volunteers continues, the 'Town can expect that the se=rvice capacities are not goin; to be adequate to serve the future populations." M. Christofferson: Noted the abundance of police department vehicles and personnel In the illagc- Believed there were Mart up grants that helped them build so quick] y however that is for pillage oWy. Asked if there was a study for population density and the jevel of police and Eire and noted that an any ,given night, there are only one or two sheriffs on to cover th.e entire Tompkins ounty- G. Frantz: Stated on a goad rai,ght in Tompkins County there are two W three police cars (State or Couri.t) oft. J. I,ac{tiatru: Asked if that is adequate artd meets standards- M. Christofferson. Mated it must be adequate as there are not marry complaints. Frantz: Stated in the 'ro .n, it does noc seem that crime. is a major issue aside Gom speeding. Ike feels the Sherifs DeTartment and the Mate Police are adequate to cover everything but the `-quality of life ", A1. Huffman_ Agrees with George. Stated as an EMT he has never had to wait to attend a scene to w it for proper podec coverage. B- Caldwell: Part ofthls is due to central dispatching. - Christofferson: The reason,he brought this up Was For polio coverage, the Town is adequately covered but as far as Rm and detergency goes, tie's a little worried- Asked if this needs to be more defrited in "Public Safety "r . Frantz` ,Stated he has numbers to incorporate Shat shows while responses to f, res has beer} a downvriarAtrend primmily dui: to building cosies. 11{1. christofferson: Stated it needs to he noted the population is crowing oldrr. N. Huiirnaa. 9 fated as population increase, the -number of emergency personnel needs to increase.. 6, Frantz: Develop a street system that ensures the abiliry of ezxmerryency personnel and equipr_raent to respond quickly and off eiently. 13• Caldwell: Not just street systema but tHs is where she N�vould like to have the conce u o C long driveway's that do not accommodate emergency vehicles asses, N. 'Huffman: Stated in Vona alone, tbere are eight addresses that a mini piimper has to be used as the driveway is nui accessible for_ the big fire truck, B. Caldwell: Stated she helieves there is something on thtc books regarding very long driveways in the Town of Dryden. G_ Frantz: They need to have a base of 187' aFgravel and a minimum of 12' wide. The other concern is the culvert pipe that needs w be adequate to Handle heavy equipment without cr�shing. , bzistofferson0 Feels the To n needs to have mare thremi a policy. G. Fr"tz; Stated the more powerful wording is in chapter fivo M, Christofferson: Stated the Following needs to he stated, "ChantaelIng future development into and adjacent to the traditiorad population centers of the town can have a secondary benefit of reducing the length of response times during emergezicles." N. I- luffinat�: Fcels strongly that culvert pipes needs to be an. issue to - look at in the future. D. Weinstein: Asked if .hack Bush is aware of the standards for culvert pipes to accommodate heavy equipment: - Frantz: Stated that all. engincevr bave giddelines- B- Caldwell: Stated th e next area of discussion is chapter 5 "flan Recommendations,., Jr Laquatra: Can page 48, the void "evolving" in the second bullet of the intro dudioni he was not sun of the meaning. - Frantz: Evolving meant changing in terms of age but he wlIt work ort that. Thinks there is a misconception of what cluster subdivision or, cluster development is- Sta #ed it's a design approach to residential development_ The- density of any cluster development is set by the underlying zoning. Stated that Vama 11 is an apartment complex, not a-cluster development- J • Iragxlra: Wh atever density is ors a plot of land, you put t€ro houses closer together and leave the rest of the lane! open. G. Frantz: Yes. t . Frantz` ,Stated he has numbers to incorporate Shat shows while responses to f, res has beer} a downvriarAtrend primmily dui: to building cosies. 11{1. christofferson: Stated it needs to he noted the population is crowing oldrr. N. Huiirnaa. 9 fated as population increase, the -number of emergency personnel needs to increase.. 6, Frantz: Develop a street system that ensures the abiliry of ezxmerryency personnel and equipr_raent to respond quickly and off eiently. 13• Caldwell: Not just street systema but tHs is where she N�vould like to have the conce u o C long driveway's that do not accommodate emergency vehicles asses, N. 'Huffman: Stated in Vona alone, tbere are eight addresses that a mini piimper has to be used as the driveway is nui accessible for_ the big fire truck, B. Caldwell: Stated she helieves there is something on thtc books regarding very long driveways in the Town of Dryden. G_ Frantz: They need to have a base of 187' aFgravel and a minimum of 12' wide. The other concern is the culvert pipe that needs w be adequate to Handle heavy equipment without cr�shing. , bzistofferson0 Feels the To n needs to have mare thremi a policy. G. Fr"tz; Stated the more powerful wording is in chapter fivo M, Christofferson: Stated the Following needs to he stated, "ChantaelIng future development into and adjacent to the traditiorad population centers of the town can have a secondary benefit of reducing the length of response times during emergezicles." N. I- luffinat�: Fcels strongly that culvert pipes needs to be an. issue to - look at in the future. D. Weinstein: Asked if .hack Bush is aware of the standards for culvert pipes to accommodate heavy equipment: - Frantz: Stated that all. engincevr bave giddelines- B- Caldwell: Stated th e next area of discussion is chapter 5 "flan Recommendations,., Jr Laquatra: Can page 48, the void "evolving" in the second bullet of the intro dudioni he was not sun of the meaning. - Frantz: Evolving meant changing in terms of age but he wlIt work ort that. Thinks there is a misconception of what cluster subdivision or, cluster development is- Sta #ed it's a design approach to residential development_ The- density of any cluster development is set by the underlying zoning. Stated that Vama 11 is an apartment complex, not a-cluster development- J • Iragxlra: Wh atever density is ors a plot of land, you put t€ro houses closer together and leave the rest of the lane! open. G. Frantz: Yes. J- Laquatra: elated he reels the last si:ntcnce of the .fifth paragraph on page 49 should he clarified as follows: " - - -in maximiznig the usable open apace nri the tract GL Frantz: beets the terFn usable is au impoetaut term to use. .D- Weinstein: Mated he has some issues with population projections because it really impacts a lot of thine that are said. Mated George used the pa•ojec�i<ons from 1960 and 2000 u+h1 makes it look larger because most of the growth happtmed in the early part. S uggested to use 19 0 and 2000 as cooriornic conditions are much more likely to like they have been for twenty years and that everything was diff'esw in the 50's. Econ.omae conditions have not changed in the past twenty years and ase um1Ikely to change in the next twenty-years, 1. L.a.q u Stated this was discussed at a previous tneet5ng anti no one knows what is going to happen during the time of this plan but we thought a t wo uld be better to err on the side of what we -would be capable of-usilag should there be a Iner iDtl%U of people. M- Chrismfferson : No one knows what is going to happen in the next five years and feels that if we set up ideas acid guidelines and policies in zoning that really tries to presrr�ve what the Town is looking for, and it's a working document. Nc is more orned about losing a farm in the area. G.. lyraatz: Mated tkie main issue is to preserve the character of the Town of Drvdcn. M_ Christofferson: Whem do you channel development? The school system and the Town and taxes are hurting for money for pro garnS to run for the kids9 WtL also need to find a place where people can build things and do some good development to that good tax rase come in and help some of things and se, - Ices tbr. Town wants in the future. J. Laquatra: Feels that being too conservative on the population projection is more dan;;erous than plarmIng for a larger number- . B. Caldwellm Stated [be next meeting will be September 2 5, 2 00 at 5:30 pm and noted there are upcoming SEAR training sessions ors 14123 and 10/24L A hristoff`erson: Movtld the meeting adjourn at 9:05 pm. .f TOWN OF D YDEN 0 DRYDEN, NEW YORK 65 FAST MAIN STREET, DRYDEN, NEW YORK 13053 1507 -844 -9120 ZONING & BUILDING CODE ENFORCEMENT In the Heart of the Finger sakes Region Date: November 15th, 2002 `o+ Barbara H. Caldwell, Chair, Dryden Town Planning Board Re: Draft September 19th. 2002 Planning Board Minutes, Dear Barbara: Please 2002 have Dryden arrived find enclosed Town. in Planning time a draft for Board you copy to minutes. review of the for September Hopefully, approval 19th, these consideration on Thursday November 21st. the next Flanning Board meeting+ Very truly yours, Henry M. Slater Zoning & Building Code Enforcement officer CC: Planning B Mark Varva Deb G>; anth Steven J. Penny Lisi Bambi Holl Planning B 0 y S e 0 and Members anisf Dryde m. Deputy S Celick, Jr. Recording nbeck, Dryd and file n 'down Supervisor uperviEor Secretary, memo only en Town Clerk y I TOWN [1 F DR "E 1 L A wll+! l BOA" [)RAFT THUJISDAY, SE PTFl1'>fBLR 1, 21102 ME14r1BER PRESENT: Chairperson Barbara Caldwell, Martin Chnsto#f'erson, Joe Laquatra; Jr -, Natan Huffman, and David W ainstcin ALSO PRESENT: Henry Slater, Marimme Carter, Bcmard orneli s, Caeorge Frantz, and Penny Lis] — I ecortiing Secrrtar�. AGENDA: (1) Carter Final Plat Hearing (2) Cornelius rinaE PJat'Hcaring (3) Long Range flan Discup lion ***** 4******* ***** * ** *W* **** *= k* * * * * * * * * * *-j .*3* * * * * *V * * * **:k ** (1) Carter Final .Plat Hearing B, Caldwell; Operned final plat hearing for Marianne Carter at 5:37 pm and read the legal notice innto d-ie record that was }posted in the Ithaca JournOI. She then requested Ms. C;artGr review her request for Mr- Huf -man as he was absent from the previous meeting. TV, Carter: Briefly reviewed her request for a five acre subd1v1si.on on Sheldon Road -for Mr- Huffman. �D. tl Stein: Asked 'f it hail OT'ginally been looked at w a subdiVisib11 and DTs. Carter stated it was not.. M. Carter: Stated she sold three lots last year, a ten acre Tot. last month and no", wants to sell the last five acre lot. D. Weinstein: Asked if, at an car Iier request, this board approved her for a subdivision - A Christotferson: Stated no, she Was exempt frnm subdivision until this P�)Mt due to 5] �e of the ]cat and time �Lrarne of sellinb it. K, Slater; doted if she had close to do nothing will. this lot -For five years, she %would not have had to request this subdiviSL B. Caldwell: Asked if there were any further questions; there were hone. Orx a mo(Ion by Mr- Christofferson and seconded by Mr. Huffman the hcafimg was closed at 6 :43 pm. All were in favor, B. Caldwell; Read the Short Environmental Assessment from into the record dated August I, 2042, H- Slater: Revie ed Type l threshold briefly for the board B. aldwoll. Requested the board review and complete part 2 of the envirorinaental assessment. Tbc answers were read into the record, J, IL ' motion for a i}egative declaration was motioned by Mt. Laquatra and seconded by Ntr. All were io savor, On a rnOtiOn by Mr, Laquatra and seconded by 1r- Weinstein the board approved the subdivision as presented - All were in favor- ' k�- s�k :Wyk'�4a;:dFdeSe *e4�;akC4,�k* dry: f: aF' �FfryrY4�lrierkf r r�" sk* jFhiefr5eelr ;e�k5s:e'�F # *�Irkek *ts�k� (2) COMP I, US .Final Plat HeannQ 13- aldwell. Opened final plat hear# for Bcmard Come1iLrs at 6;50 prn and read the legal notice into the record that was posted in the Ithaca Journal- She then requested Mr. ornelI I as explain to the hoard what he was proposing - B. Cornelius: Stated lie is requesting to divide and build three single rau l -ly d we 11ing houses on the proposed property, He noted he had obtained the driveway cuts from the ]�O3' Feir the three pieces of. propertw�- stated the land is dn, 1). Weinstein; Asked about road fronta e- B. Cornellus; Stated one will be :lose to the road and the other two will. be substrr�ntially set hack from the rozdr lei. tvhri stoft rsoa: Asked why the one parcel was so'much smaller that the other tO, Br Cornelius: Stated hecause 0-kere needs to he a 200 foot circle., D. Weinstein: Asked I this was in an Ag f)19 riot. a. Comlius: Did not think it was but was not _sure - H, Slater: Stated he did not believe it was. D. Weinstein: Asked what was around the lots, B. Cornelius: Wooded area. M. Chmtofft Tson: asked about quesiion #7 on the Short Envirotunental. Assessment Form., It was written as 3 lots — one quaater acre each- FT, Slater: Requested Mr. Cornelius amends th'o riginal application that Mrs. Ca-ldwtll had. iV7'. Cornelius; Amended the application to 3 lots - 1.13 acres, 2, 1? acres and 3,12 acres and initialed it, D. Weimiein: Asked about a small lot on the left- I'd- Cornelius: Stated the neighhOT had built something and needed a clunk cif the property and is not a stand alone loo, B. Caldwell: Askffd about the drainage o❑ this property, B- CoMel]us: Stated it was good. There are not streams and is at about a 5% grade that slopes to route 366 where there is a deep ditch- • 4 B. Caldwell: Asked Mir. Slater if there were going to have to be any special drainage requiremems_ H_ Slater: Stated them -would not be as the property is quite flat. -}n a motion by Mr. hr istofferson and seconded by Mr, C�acluatra the hearing was closed at 7:00 pm. All wire in favor, B. aldwell: Read the Short Environmental Assessment from into the record and requested the board review and complete part ? of tlhe eavironrncntal assessment. The answers were read into the record. A. ruotaon for a negative declaration was motioned by Mr. Huffman and seconded by Mrr Cluistofferson- All were in favor_ On a motion by MT_ G eulstetn and :sect�ixded by r_ Laquatra the board approved tl�e request as presented, All were i.ra favorr wAnk e44s6 44's 6* * *a7 k *e4JFek e44* ** ** *;�-*k** ale*%LEA k*k * *** * *y -4 D_ Weinstein: RequesLed the approval of the minutes he postponed to the next meeting to allow for review and corrections. HL Slater: Stated there is public hearing scheduled for the next meeting. *** *s6****£# ******************* *** **of**** *** *** * * ****of* ***** (3) song .flange Plan Discussion B. Caldwell; Opene d the di scussion of the long range plan at 7:10 pm. Mated the boars{ left o�lfon page 4 "Public and. Semi - .Public Infrastructure ", Ct. Frantz; Stated the board can held off on the section of telecommunications. B. aldwtl1: Regarding thr: water and saver service, she askW about the areas in the Tour that they feel is important to be developed to take pressure off of other areas and that cht re may be responsibility of the Town as a whole to do primary lL nes to certain areas. Stated she did .not sec this addressed in this section - G_ Fraatz: The following 5entence was added after the first sen'terkec ofthc first ara aphI "Some o�fit however, such a th.e extension of service into new areas, is likely to be financed i i ,y through the bcnefil t district mt=chailism or through grants_ Fie also crated lie would add a short paragraph at the end of page 46 saving it's necessary for the Town to he very cartsful in the staving of ex tensions ofpub]ic water and sewer_ B. Caidwell: Questioned thy: first paragraph sin. pave 47 under "Public Safety" about the capabilities of existing ocgEinizations kmwing� how difficult it is to get volunteers. -She asked If the network is strong enough. N. Huffman: Mated there may have to be other solutions since the events Of 9!J t. Noted most of the organizations in the Town are. rnaxed out with the minimum rt urn ber of peoples and equipment issues, . Hrantr; Stated he would put a period at the cnd of ", ..incremerttai in nature`' and add the sentence(s) that Dies to elaborate as hollows: "Current services are considered adequate at the present k:v is with the present population but if oureent trends In the recruitment of and retention of volunteers continues, the To% v" can expect that the service capacit;.es are nut going to be adequate to serve the future populations." M- Christofferson: Noted the abundance of police department vehicles and persollnel in the Village. Believed there were start up grants that helped their, build ,so quickly however that is for 1`i]Iage only, Asked if there was a study for population density acid thts level of polio: and lire and noted that on any - iven night, there arc only one or two shcriffs on to e,over the entire Tompkins County. _ Frantz: Stated on a good night in Tompkins County there are two to three police c,irs (State or County) on, J..><,aquatra: Asked if 1.hat is adequate aad meets standards, M. Christofferson; Stated it must be adequate its there are not mane complaints. G. Frantz.: Stated in the Towu, it does not seem that crime is a major issue aside from speeding. He feels the Sheriffs Department and the State Police are adequate to cover everything but the "quality of life ". . H.u# tnaui0 Agrees with George_ Stated as an EMT he has never lead to wait to attend a scene to wait for proper police coverage, B_ CaldWell I Part oftllis is duty to central dispatching, M. Christofferson: 1 "he reason.he brought this up was for police coverage. the ToN n is adequately covered but as far as fu-c and emergency goes, he's a little worrit.d_ Asked if this needs to be more defined in "Tublie Sai."ety ". i Seated he has Rambers to incorporate that shows while responses to fires has been a down ard'trriid primarily due to building codes, M. Christoffi,rsorl: Stated it needs to be noted the populae lr.oil is get) )'Jog oldcn N. Huff-man., Stated as populCttion i rncreases. the -n umber of emergency personnel needs to increase.- G. l'ranfi /,: Develop a street system that ensures the ability of emergency personnel and equipment'to respond quickly and efficiently. B- Caldwell: Not dust street systems but this rs where she world like to have the concern of lmg driveways that. do not accommodate emergency vehicle, access - N- Huffin&n: Stated in Marna alone, thchre ire eight addresses that a rnJaj pumper has to be used as the driveway is not accessible for the big -15 re truck. B. Caldwell: .stated she believes there is something on the books regarding very long driveways in the Town of Dryden - G. Frantz: They need to have a base of 18" of gravel and a 171-11.13imum of 12' wide. 19he r >ther concern is the culvert pipe that needs to be adequate to handle heavy equipment without ct�tshing- . . Christofferson: )~eels the Town needs to have rnoTe than a policy, G. f�rantz: Stated the more powerful wording is in chapter five. M- Christofferson ,stated the follol,;i-Ulg needs to be, stated; "Channeling future development into and adj ace ot to the traditional POP tLIatioa aeMtt rs of the town can have a secondary br;nefit of reducing the leagtli of response-times during emergencies." NT_ Huff= Rels strongly that culvert pipes needs to be an issue to look at in the fiiture. D. eimWiu; .asked if Jack Flush is aware of the standards for culvert pipes to acoornmodate heavy equipment - . Frantz; Stated that all en ineers have guidelines, B. Caldwell: Stated the next area of discussion is chapter 5 "Plan. R.ecar mendat'ioiSS :: J..Laquatra: On page 48, the word "evolving °' itt llie second bullet of the introduction. he was not sure rxi'the rneanino [ - FraniZ: Fvo[ving meant changing ire terrns of age but he wi l l work on that. Thinks there i5 a misconception of what cluster subdivision or cluster development is. Stated it's a design, approach to residential development, 'l'he-density of any cluster development is set by the underlying zoning- Mated that Varna ]I is an apartini%nt complex, not a- cluster development - J. Laqualra: - hatever density is ort a plot o- J- gland, f� 4 put the hn use s closer together and leave the rest of the land open- G. Frantic; yes, F. LJ J, Uquatra: G. Fr* awz; D. Weinstein; J. Laquatra: 9._ Christofferson; GL Frantz: M. christofferson: J. Laquatra; Stated he feels the last sentence of the fifth parag=raph On page 49 should be clarified as fellows: "_._in maximizing the usable open space on the tract.:' Feels the term w3able is an imp()rtarit tt�TM to use_ Mated he has some issues wit€ population projections b�cau% �c 4 really impacts a lot of things that are said. Mated eorbe used the pmjections frorn 1960 and 2000 which makes it look larger because most of the growth happened tin the early part_ uggesrcd to use 1980 and 2000 as economic conditions are much more li.kety to like they have been for Menty years and that cvtrything was dif tLi —ent in the 60's. Fconon-uc conditions have not change d in the past twenty. year8 and are unlikely to change in the next twenty yi rs. Stated this was discussed at a previous meeting and no one knows what is going to happen dUring the time of this plan but we thought it would b� e btter to err on the L iIdc of what we would be capable of using should there be a larger influx of people. No one knows what is ;;oing to happen in the next five years and feels that if a set Up ideas and a idelines and policies in zoning that mallr+ tries to preserve what the To+ n is looking for, and it`s a ork.1ng document. He is more worrierl aboUt losing a farm in the area, Mated the mau� issuo is to preserve the character of the Town of Dryden, Where do you channel development? The school system and the Town and taxes are hurting for money for programs to run for the kids. We a] to need to tang a pLace where people: can build thingys and do some good development to that goad tax base come in and help some of things and services the Town waTiLs in the -future. Feels that being too conservative on the population projeetyon is mere dangerous than planni.t�g Igor a lamer number, B. Qildwel I. Mated the next meeting will be September 25, 20 02 at 6:30 pm and noted there are upcoming SE R training sessions on 1.4/23 and l.0 ?241 M_ Christofferson: Moved the meeting adjourn at 9:05 ptu,