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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-12-02DRYDEN TOWN PLANNING BOARD DECEMBER 2, 1993 �Y AGENDA: PUBLIC HEARING. PEREGRINE HOLLOW SUBDIVISION MEMBERS PRESENT: CHAIR. BARBARA CALDWELL, JOHN DAVIS, ROBERT FLETCHER, MITCHELL LAVINE, AND JOSEPH LALLEY • APPROXIMATELY 28 PEOPLE requested ATTENDED THE PUBLIC HEARING WHICH INCLUDED: Dryden project specs. saying she Town Supervisor anything James Schug; Zoning it. Law and Code Enforcement will be a 10 Officer period Henry Slater; Town Engineer, State? Dave Putnam; Developers date. Ralph and Richard Varn; Engineer Larry Fabbroni; Ithaca Town Engineer Daniel Walker% Ithaca Planning Board Chair., Carolyn Board Grigorov; be making Harold Hyde, Candice on how Cornell; Mario Giannella; fits together Maryann within Newton, Charlotte Reid, Nick Nicastro; Susan DeBell; Deborah O'Connor; John Beverly, Jim DeCann; William Huling; W. Shaw Reid; Walt Matyjas. PUBLIC HEARING - DEIS PEREGRINE HOLLOW SUBDIVISION - 8:15 PM The Public Hearing was called to order by Chair. Barbara Caldwell. Ms. Caldwell noted the purpose for the hearing is to receive comments from the public and anyone wishing to comment will be limited to five minutes until everyone had a chance to be heard. Candice Chair Cornell requested that it was a a copy first of the project specs. saying she didn't know anything clear. review for about it. and there The Chair noted wetland that it was a lengthy first document. One has been on file for public clear. review for 30 days and there will be a 10 day period for review Road? and comment State? after tonights date. A decision will not be made tonight and noted the Board will be making a decision on how everything fits together within 45 days. JOHN HYDE, 354 SNYDER HILL ROAD: The first question is the wetland goes back a long time ago when this was first discussed and I've given read this and I am still not completely clear. Where do we stand so by on getting unto the Slaterville Road and stay off Snyder criteria for Hill a wetland? Road? The Second question is the wetland near the top, near the Power Line. Has freedom been given to fill that in, destroy it or take it out, and if so by whom? What is the criteria for designating a wetland? Federal? State? ' r' JOHN HYDE CONTINUED: PB 12 -2 -93 PG. 2 They had some (wetlands) at the airport that was replaced • somewhere else, which was a joke (not opposed to the wetlands, just coming out on Snyder Hill Road). Most of the people I've talked to know that area has to be developed. It should be, but, as others as well as myself have stated: "DON'T BRING IT OUT ON SNYDER HILL ROAD" The Town of Ithaca doesn't want it, Eastern Heights doesn't want it, we don't want it. This business of going down the hill is nonsense, you're going to go the shortest way you can to get where you are going, and that is up Snyder Hill and down Quarry Road. There are roads that have gone through. Besemer Hill is still there, Whitted Road went through before and these excuses, ' we can't do it', that's the easy way out. Sometimes people can think positive and find ways of doing it. DAN WALKER - 126 East Seneca Street - Engineer for the Town of Ithaca. (READ THE FOLLOWING LETTER FOR THE RECORD) OF' 12' tnwP4 C1 rM 273. 1721 11OwN or 11TIAcn 126 EAST SENECA STnEET, ITIIACA, N.V. 14850 11103IIWAV 273 -1(.56 PMNS 273 -90:15 F.NnIl1EEnwo 273- 1747 r1.AN7JINO 273 -1747 _- -7MANn 273.1747 December 2, 1993 Barbara Caldwell, Chair • Town of Dryden Planning Board 65 East Main Street Dryden, New York 13053 RP.: Peregrine Hollow subdivision DEIS Comments Dear Ns. Caldwell: The Town of Ithaca Planning and Engineering Staff have reviewed the DEIS dated June 1993 prepared for the Peregrine Hollow Subdivision in the Town of Dryden and have prepared comments for the consideration of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board. The Town of Ithaca Planning Board will be reviewing the DEIS as an involved agency at the December 7, 1993 Planning Board meeting and will be submitting an official response to the Town of Dryden Planning Board acting as lead agency for environmental review prior to the and of the comment period on December 13, 1993. The comments will focus on several areas of concern, including: 1. Stormwater Management because much of the project area is located uphill of the Town of Ithaca and drainage flows through Town Properties, 2. Traffic because Snyder Hill Road, the principal road serving the site is currently an area of concern for the Town, 3. The impact on park and open space resources in the area, 4. water supply which utilizes Town of Ithaca infrastructure, and 5. Sanitary sewage disposal which will also utilize Town of Ithaca infrastructure. If you have any questions or need additional information, please contact me at (607) 213 -1747. • very truly yours, Daniel R. Walker, F.E. Town Engineer PERIIOLOI /I.F.TTF..RS/ 12/02/93/DRW: mb cc: Shirley Raffensperger, Town Supervisor Carolyn Grigorov, Planning Board Chair I i • PB 12 -2 -93 PG. 3 MARIO GIANNELLA - E Dove Drive Wished to know if the Developer or the Board would comment on the first question of accessing Rt. 79? CHAIR. B. CALDWELL noted the Board would like to have all of the issues presented access to Rt. before the developer of made comments, however as section Wetland be experts have looked (a little less steep than Buffalo Street no one wished to speak at this time, looked Ralph Varn addressed the Dryden Town Engineer project and George off the concerns of our Engineer traffic Larry and access to Rt. order 790 to build RALPH VARN: "We have no available stated the land that we can put wetland an access to Rt. top of the project. section Wetland be experts have looked (a little less steep than Buffalo Street in the City 79 on. It has been looked with is at by Dryden Town Engineer project and George off the Schlecht and our Engineer Larry Fabbroni and in one. order There to build a road to the Town Specifications at the is impossible entrance, with the basically topography that is there. not to Not that we have that area any land that place visibly touches 79 anyway ". There is a possibility certain portion of an access small to Rt. 79 from our property will through some neighboring to be filled properties can onto a Town of Ithaca national Road that they have built down to the winery. That is something that is up in the air now, but we've talked to the Town of Ithaca about it, about the feasibility because the neighbors are interested in having access to their lands. The upper lands of Rt. 79 where they can not get access to their lands due to steepness. We are exploring a possibility of sometime in the future being able to connect to that route to the winery by leaving an access through lands that we have and own in the Town of Ithaca and are expecting them to comment on that to the Town of Dryden after their meeting. Concerning FABBRONI stated the if they wetland at the top of the project. section Wetland be experts have looked (a little less steep than Buffalo Street in the City at the ). wetlands with is concerning above Rt. the project and marked off the wetlands in phase one. There is a wetland in phase two at the entrance, basically the plan is not to disturb that area and to place the access road over a certain portion of it. A small area will need to be filled and can be done under a national permit." JOSEPH LALLEY inquired what the grade would be down to Rt. 79? LARRY FABBRONI stated if they owned land, which they don't, one section would be more like 15% (a little less steep than Buffalo Street in the City of Ithaca ). The most difficult area to deal with is right above Rt. 79. �I • • PB 2 -2 -93 PG. 4 THE BOARD AND DEVELOPER DISCUSSED POSSIBILITIES of accessing Route 79: (a) There is not room within the Foot property to go from A to 2 in a straight line. (b) You would a main gas line feed going to Ithaca along the Rail have to sweep all about across Park Lane the to Rt. Blanpied the drainage properties and come lands, and back to cut the east to get the is not slope. to impact of a (c) There is a main gas line feed going to Ithaca along the Rail Road Right going -of -way. (d) If you had the length and right -of -way you would come through the gas line to come into a level intersection with Rt. 79. (e) According to to Larry Fabbroni and going over about to Park Lane and then to Rt. 79 is the drainage the most feasible back lands, and the cut required to get to Park Lane are is not going to impact of a anything. street. (f) Ithaca Town Engineer Dan Walker stated that the Blanpieds' have come to the Town and asked about availability if to the drainage access their back lands, looked but isn't as a sure that they are in in favor of a through street. The Quicks have been cooperating with the Town and have gone through a significant amount of anguish the last few years with the Park Lane project. They want future access to their back lands but may not want to see a through road in that area. Mr. Walker doesn't believe this should be considered feasible without first consulting with the land owners and the Town of Ithaca Planning Board. Mr. Walker confirmed that there have been NO implications for a through road at this point, however would bring this concern before the Planning Board and request a written comment regarding this issue. MR. LALLEY inquired if the proposed 2nd access by the power lines has been determined a designated wetland? RALPH VARN stated that had not been determined. They are only dealing with phase one and will look at the issues in each phase as they begin that part of the development. They have briefly looked at the wetlands with the expert and it is not a problem area, but it has not been determined how big an area it is. CANDACE CORNELL from the Town of Ithaca inquired if the drainage plan for the project was looked at as a whole or in phases? d PB 12-2-93 PG. 5 RALPH VARN explained that each phase was isolated as to the • drainage. different The patterns. drainage on each corner There is very little of original the water property coming has from the second phase into the first phase. The project as a whole was presented to the Town Board in order to to plan the project in the best way. We are asking for overall concept is to of the project and approval for phase one. As each phase is from entered a detailed one to phase drainage study, etc. will have to be presented the to the Town Town Board and being granted the whole an overall process will be done approval for the phase over whole again, project, we are we not are requesting approval for phase one. Mr. Ginnella MARIO GINNELLA of 6 Dove Drive stated the original plan showed the attached town houses adjacent to existing homes. Now the alternative is to move some of those from phase one to phase four and leave the Town Houses in phase two at the original location. Mr. Ginnella requested clarification on what is being proposed the original, an alternate, or another plan not shown for the building /development stage. RALPH VARN said the prime poss measures. Through all of the have always tried to address t the different issues that have • objection to the Town House Un Town of Ithaca Park and also a homes of Sky View, Snyder Hill are responding to the concerns make a better project bases on Public Hearings. ibility is th meetings and he problems o been present its being ne butting the e and the East of the neigh all of the c e mitigating public hearings they f the neighbors and ed. There was an xt to the existing xisting single family ern Heights area. We borhood and trying to omments made at the MARYANN NEWTON: The Town Houses in phase two will abut single family homes being proposed in Phase one? RALPH VARN.a Yes, but they do not abut the existing Snyder Hill Area. LARRY FABBRONI: Referring to phase two stated they really wouldn't abut anyone the way the land features are and phase one units were moved to phase four. i CHARLOTTE REID, happening with being moved to RALPH VARN: Th 48 single famil four. 333 Snyder Hill the Town Houses phase four? Are ere are no Town y lots. The Tow Roa and som Hous n Ho d we e es us wa re be i es s not all ing 1 n pha have cl the eft se be ear what Town Ho in phas one. Th en moved was uses e one? ere are to phase MARIO GINNELLA: Understand the Town Houses in Phase two are not • being moved and are adjacent to an existing home owners property. Is that correct? RALPH VARN: Correct. The Town Hous the original house of the property t • road. That property is not a part o CANDACE CORNELL: The concerns with Attached Housing and Town House Unit properties and simply by moving thos phase four and continuing to have th next to an existing house in the are adequately address the concerns of t PB 12-2-93 PG. 6 es in Phase Tw hat has access f the proposed the lack of de s next to sing e out of phase e town houses a already does he people who o will abut on the same development. sirability of le family one into in phase two not live there. JOHN HYDE 3j4 Snyder Hill Road: Questioned the cost of building a road and moving the gas line ($50,000.00) inquired if that wasn't spread impossible. among the cost of the housing? Nothing is RALPH VARN noted that the price to mo issue as much as they didn't own the part of the project. Believes it is build a road in that particular area. you could take those four or five exi need to; move the gas line; purchase you could build the two or three hund of road. He doesn't own the land and anyway. ve a gas line was not the property and that it is not impossible for anyone to If you really wanted to sting houses down that you all the property; and then red thousand dollars worth therefore couldn't do it JOHN HYDE quested why anyone would take control of a piece of land that looks landlocked and not have a good plan for access • for a project if the Board doesn't approve it? RALPH VARN agreed it was an interesting question. They bought it because it has municipal services, it is a southern facing slope, it is not farm land, and believes that the numbers given based on the whole project for the traffic that is going to go down Snyder Hill Road are correct. Snyder Hill could handle many more cars then are being projected based on engineering. We have been in business 13 years and have built about 55 houses. We are not going to finish this project. This project is going to take 50 years before it is completed. The traffic is going to come very slowly on the project and there will be other improvements made on the road as the road gets traffic and it is not fair to dump the traffic issue on this project. You have to consider the phase the project is in and the time span that it will take to complete. There may be no growth and this project will be placed on hold. The positive things are that people need nice places to live, it is close to Cornell, it is close to shopping and services. It creates an interior road that people can walk on. It can be a part of Town of Ithaca's open space. We have left paths to connect the trails up from Eastern Heights from the parks. We are trying to put a community center in, it will create .jobs and tons of tax base for the Town of Dryden. This is a good project. If you don't want a project in this particular location you don't want a • project anywhere in the County. I PB 12 -2 -93 PG. 7 JOHN HYDE agreed there was no argument about that, we do need the tax base, but was curious why they picked one that was • landlocked. NICE( NICASTRO of 378 Snyder Hill Road: Could the developer describe the character of the houses in phase one? RALPH VARN: Well it keeps changing but our company has been developing for 13 years and our basic idea now is to build a single model home starting at $150,000.00 and up to the $200,000.00 range. They will be mostly two story, high energy ra� effect built * "r+i-L�e st-w," with cedar siding. "-W ce —afar" has a pilot project in Ithaca. The homes build are 25% move energy efficient then the existing codes are. In Canada it was call an' R2OOO house. You use high efficiency windows, High efficiency entry doors, calk all the plates down, calk any holes where wires run in, around all the receptacles, they come and do their own inspection. All the homes will be gas, you experience 30 to 4O% savings in your utility bills. They have talked with banks, if you show your utilities bills are less you can then afford more mortgage payments. SUSAN DEPELL: How many houses are you planning to build in phase one? RALPH VARN: 480 CANDICE CORNELL: If the access to the project is granted as • proposed is concerned with the speed limit which is currently at 45 mph with the added traffic for construction and on site development. (sic40,Me,i� RALPH VARN: Felt all of the issues could be dealt with and they have proposed with the Town of Dryden to reconstruct and do some improvements on Snyder Hill Road from the Town line up to the proposed development. Ralph stated that all of the numbers for traffic on Snyder Hill Road have been generated assuming that the project is complete and that 95% of all traffic goes down to, Pine Tree Road. CANDICE CORNELL was concerned the landowners would loose frontage when the road was improved. LARRY FAPBRONI not be increase property alread on the existing except right at the north right noted that the fo d and the improve y owned for that ditch that is on the entrance. T at that specific otage belonging to highway would ments would only take place on purpose. It would not encroach the east side of the road he road could shift four feet to spot. CHARLOTTE REID wondered if all of the roads, both entrances, sewer and water lines could be installed before the building phase began? • L. FAPBRONI stated the developers would be bankrupted before they even started.i Q �luk . �, - V 1 �D MARIO GI • entrance there we and was issue be ANNELLA The f re propo there a fore and stat irst sed vari may ed a ent miti ance be s PB 12-2-93 PG. 8 nother issue was the width of the rance is less than the Town Standard and gating measures, mountable curbs, etc. granted? There was discussion on this omeone on the Board can speak on it? BARBARA CALDWELL noted that Town she not have was not in a position take to give a clear answer on the that issue the developer with has out researching town the record. an CAROLYN GRIGOROV INQUIRED about the Town of Dryden policy concerning Park Lands. BARBARA CLADWELL stated that generally the Town does not have need for set aside park land or take over land that the developer has for park usage or town usage within an area. The Town in the past has not shown a desire for deeded lands and have left designated open lands to be dealt with by the developer and Boards discretion. (The Town Ordinance does allow it) JOSEPH LALLEY ON THE QUESTION OF THE 60 FOOT RIGHT -OF -WAY STATED: at the time that was being worked through the Planning Board received an indication from the Town Board at the time that it was possible for that variance to go through in the context of the overall project. • NICK NICASTRO inquired if the property owners on Snyder Hill Road would be responsible for any of the improvements, if sidewalks and improvements were to be constructed? R. VARN: The project does not have provisions for sidewalks and there would not be any cost to the people on Snyder Hill Road, The Cost would be shared by the Town of Dryden and the developers. M. GIANNELLA: OPEN SPACE.... normally when cluster housing is done you take a certain space and put all the housing units together and leave open space around them so that the people in the cluster can enjoy that open space. If you look at the map the Town Houses in phase two, there is no open space around the clusters. The open space is wet lands and can't be enjoyed by those people. It defeats the purpose of the cluster housing proposal. All of these people have a little tinny sliver of land and they are surrounded by single family homes. L. FABBRONI: The cluster concept is one thing that is before you and by no means is the open lands, "wetlands" or "unusable land ". one of the largest wetlands is a nice pine grove between phases two and three that you see on both the original and overall mitigation plan. The other angular open space that you see south of the NYSE&G right -of -way is quite a nice untouched area since that farm pond was put in decades ago. Another open • space would utilize and reclaim a small mined out area way in the South East corner of the project. There is open space around the Community center. We have pointed out many times the density in this cluster is far under what the density is in the Town of Ithaca Subdivided areas if you look at what has actually developed there. i PB 12-2-93 PG. 9 M. GIANNELLA: I agree that the overall density works out. The point is that the open space in phase two and three is next to the single housing. At least the cluster housing in phase four • does have open space adjacent to it but not in phase two. LJ MR. HYDE inquired about the ownership of open space and who pays the taxes on it? RALPH VARN stated that has not been determined yet for this project. DEBORAH O'CONNER inquired if the landowner /developer wished could he post his deed restricted open land or prohibit the public from using it? L. FABBRONI: OF ITHACA, stated that the Town does not want to want land dedicated to them. acres if they remained owned The options left are to set the aside land with a restricted parcels adjacent covenant as a part of a lot, transferring open are development 10, all open land to access. the developer with restricted from covenantsg one street or a cooperative woods etc. to to the next the park. - homeowner association which has to be approved by the State Attorney General and which they do not wish to consider. WE WOULD DEDICATE IT TO THE TOWN IF THEY HAD THE SAME PHILOSOPHY AS THE TOWN OF ITHACA, Dryden is not the only municipality that doesn't want to take control of open space. There is approx. eight acres if they remained owned by the developer VARN stated that the noted and the including Town wished to own them in the future it could be deeded parcels be would in some over to space the Town. MR. LAVINE VARN stated that the noted that by including the open space in private parcels be would in some mean the open space would be divided up between all of the parcels adjacent to it and would be deed restrict in terms of open are development 10, and in all cases. foot public access. -ways for people to RALPH VARN stated that the areas that are being dedicated will be dedicated in some form so there is access from the Town of Ithaca There Park to our are approx. road system 10 places where to the there open are spaces 10, 20 in all cases. foot right -of -ways for people to walk from one street through the woods etc. to to the next the park. street, through the woods to the next street, VIRGINIA LANGHANS Town of Ithaca stated that there would be a lot of families with children in this area and the developer is not proposing any place for them to play but instead is making trails over to the Town of Ithaca Park. Doesn't the developer have an obligation to provide for his own? d PB 12 -2 -93 PG. 10 RALPH VARNo The Town of Dryden doesn't accept parks. We have • proposed to the Town of Ithaca in pass discussions that we would do certain improvements in the Town of Ithaca Park in lieu of us having our own park. We will be adding the open space to the whole scenario, we have always felt in developing this project that the Town of Ithaca Park was underutilized. I have been there lots of times and it is not overrun with people. We should not have a free ride and we are trying to address the issue by talking to the Town of Ithaca. We were going to put up soccer nets and develope a trail down through the park connecting to our access and that was satisfactory. They have already built the trail since our discussion with the Town and now need to discuss alternatives with them. We are going to leave a space available in the project for a park. In the future if minds /policies change it can be developed into a park. There is also a one and half acre park on Dove Drive. JOHN f'EVERLY, 348 Snyd side of the road from concerned with the tra adequate, the traffic worse in spite of the and unsafe issues. Th good development would traffic situation wors er Hill Road st the proposed de ffic issue and is bad enough n engineers study ere should be d be development e. ated he li velopment believes t ow and sho there are evelopment that does ved on and is he road uld not now ac and th n' t mak the North most is not get any cidents e only e the MARIO GIANNELLA noted his understanding of the Eastern Heights park land is that only half is designated park land and the other half is Town of Ithaca general purpose land and could in the future be something else. i JIM DECANN of 409 Snyder Hill Road spoke in favor of the development and stated there were issues concerning access and park lands that he thought could be worked out MR. SHAW REID stated he was under the assumption that what was put in writing would not have to be brought up. CHAIR. noted there were seven letters on file and the public would have an additional 10 days after the close of this hearing to submit concerns in writing. WILLIAM HULING concerned the Town wouldn't develop a park for the welfare of the children and wished the Planning Board to support a park and present the concern to the Town Board. I CHAIR noted the Planning Board could recommend to the Town Board that they accept a piece of park land however the Town Board makes the final decision. The Chair. also stated that the Town Board may take affirmative action if the general public approached the Board also. RH 12 -2 -93 PG. 11 SUSAN DEBELL was concerned with the visibility factor, morning and night, when phase one was completed and approx. 50 extra autos would be added to an already congested area. DEBORA O'CONNOR STATED THAT there is a strong movement to get the general public lands adjacent but to the Eastern Heights park land designated as a whole park land too. if he Many present noted stated concern that the project not enter Snyder Hill Road but access Rt. 790 this Mr. MATYJAS noted that the developer has presented this project as a whole and wondered if he could have come before the Hoard and requested smaller subdivisions until the whole was completed? Was concerned we would discourage future developers from presenting whole subdivisions. MR. LALLE looks at the Hoard has been Board has reasonabl Y stated as a who has eve this far respond e to all that le. r don alon ed to part w Th e 9• i ie hatever project is is certainly (4 phases) and This was pres t. We are tryi s concerned. is pres one of the firs ented as ng to be 0 NO FURTHER COMMENTS...F'UBLIC HEARING CLOSED.... .........MEETING ADJOURNED.... 9:55 FPM jr • ented the Hoard the largest ones t time the Hoard a whole and the fair and a