HomeMy WebLinkAbout1991-09-20•
MEMBERS PRESENT:
TOWN OF DIRYD�N
DRAFT
PLANNING BOARD
SEPTEMBER 20, 1991
Acting Chairman Joseph Lalley, Claudia Brenner
John Davis, Michael Hattery and Mitchell Lavine
The meeting was.called to order by Acting Chairman Joseph
Lalley and the August 15th. minutes were reviewed and addition and
correction r s,made to the original minute book copy by J. Davis.
A motion was made by John Davis
1991 minutes. Second by Claudia
members present.
to
approve
the
amended
will
August
private
15,
Brenner
and
approved
by the
SCHNURLE /TIER SUBDIVISION
165 LIVERMORE ROAD
PRELIMINARY /FINAL PLAT APPROVAL
,
ACTING CHAIRMAN MITCHELL LAVINE
Acting Chairman Mitchell Lavine read the Public Notice which
was printed in the Ithaca Journal on September 13, 1991.
A review of the subdivision was presented by Attorney Richard
VanDonsel.
i. A request to subdivide lot #6 into two lots: 6A and 6B.
Lot 6A is proposed to have 5.885 acres and Lot 6B will have
7.196 acres.
3. Lot 6 is a parcel of property sold from the.Nagel Estate,
4. The
two
lots
will
be used by the developers for their own
private
homes.
5. A letter-• from the Tompkins County Health Department and the
Long form EAF have been submitted for the boards review.
60 A letter from Attorney ICI. Perkins outlining the legal
requirements which is in_ response to the letter from the
Tompkins County Planning Department.
In response to addressing the concern the Nagle property may have
been in an Ag. District the attorney stated the adjustment world
be between the seller and the buyer. Mr. Slater noted that the
Nagles had never applied for or` received a credit, if the property
ever had been in an Agricultural District.
Mr. Lavine was concerned that Mr. Perkins letter did not address
the issue of residential land use, if this were in an tag. District
and the compatibility of the two.
I
i
•
•
PB 9 -20 -91 PG
Attorney Van Donsel did not believe a notation on the deed stating
this parcel was in an Ag. district would be of benefit to protect
the buyer.
Anyone can readily see there is farming in the area, and the
developers are aware this parcel was divided off of an established
former farm and it is for their own use.
Henry
Environmental
Slater
comments
believed
Assessment
the
the
farm
Form
is
-the
still
Joseph
being
farmed
as it
is,
however
the
the
property
Hearing.
has
been
broken
up
and
sold into
(8) eight
lots.
One
lot
has
had
a
pond
installed,
two
lots
have
been
sold
to
the
person
who
also
bought
the
main
farm
and eight
other
acres.
Most
of the
lots
were
sold
to
buyers
with
the
purpose
of
placing
their
own
homes
on
them.
'
At 8:20 p.m. the hearing was opened to the public.
With
Environmental
no
comments
Assessment
from
the
Form
floor
-the
motion was made by
Joseph
Lalley
Joseph
to
close
Lalley
the
Public
Hearing.
A second was made by Michael Hattery.
All voting members were in agreement and the Public Hearing was
closed.
Full
Environmental
Assessment
Form
Review
Officer
-
Joseph
Lalley
Fart 2 - PROJECT IMPACTS AND THEIR MAGNITUDEe
IMPACT ON LAND
1. NO
2. NO
IMPACT ON WATER
Ua
NO
4. NO
ts . NO
6. NO
IMPACT ON AIR
7. NO
IMPACT 0114 PLANTS AND ANIMALS
a. NO
7. NO
PB 9- 20--91 I-,G a
IMPACT ON AGRICULTURAL LAND RESOURCES
0 10. Will the Proposed'Action affect agricultural land resources?
YES
The proposed
action
would irreversibly
to be, public
convert more
than 10
acres of
agricultural
land or,
if located
in an Agricultural
District,
more than
The
proposed
land.
action
would
sever, cross or limit
access to
agricultural
land
(includes
cropland, hay field,
pasture,
vineyard,
orchard,
etc.)
SMALL TO MODERATE
IMPACT.
The proposed
action
would irreversibly
to be, public
convert more
than 10
acres of
agricultural
land or,
if located
in an Agricultural
District,
more than
2.0 acres
of agricultural
land.
SMALL TO
MODERATE
IMPACT.
IMPACT ON AESTHETIC RESOURCES
11. NO
IMPACT ON HISTORIC: AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL RESOURCES
12. NO I
IMPACT ON OPEN 8PACL AND RECREATION
133 NO
IMPACT ON TRANSPORTATION
IMPACT ON ENERGY
ISO NO
NOISE AND ODOR IMPACTS
166 NO
IMPACT ON PUBLIC HEALTH
17. NO
IMPACT ON GROWTH AND CHARACTER OF COMMUNITY OR NEIGHBORHOOD
18. NO
19. Is there,
related to
r 1
U
or is
there
likely
to be, public
potential
adverse
environmental
controversy
impacts? NO
PB 9 -20 -91 PG.. 4
After a satisfactory review of Part 22' - Project Impacts and
their Magnitude JOHN DAVIS MOVED FOR A NEGATIVE DECLARATION.
• SECOND BY MICHAEL HATTERY.
NO DISCUSSION
VOTE YES (4) M. HATTERY, J. LALLEY, .J. DAVIS AND C. BRENNER.
NO (0)
NEGATIVE DECLARATION GRANTED ON FART 2.
JOSEPH LALLEY MOVED THAT THE PLANNING BOARD GRANT FINAL FLAT
APPROVAL FOR THE SUBDIVISION AS PROPOSED.
SECOND BY JOHN DAVIS.
DISCUSSION: The
John
lots
(6)
maki
lot
board re
Davis w
are inc
is being
ng three
of the
viewed
ished
laded
split
parce
"Nage
Attorne
to Testa
in the s
into 6A
1 s under
1 Estate
y Pe
to f
ubd i
and
ten
11 pr
rkins
or th
v i s i o
6B.
acre
opert
lett
e rec
n. L
The-r^
s, 6A
Yu
er
or
of
of
.
d which
six
ore
6B; and
VOTE YES. (4). M. HATTERY, . J. LALLEY, J. DAVIS AND C. BRENNER&
• NO (0) —
FINAL PLAT-APPROVED
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PB 9-- 20- -91 PG. 5
PRECISION BUILDERS SUBDIVISION
1684 EL I► IS
PRELIMINARY
HOLLOW ROAD
PLAT APPROVAL
ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSEPH LALLEY
REVIEWe Lead Agency declared on 8/15/91
No significant changes however, pursuant to the Public
Hearing of July 18, 1991 substantial revisions were
made on the road to conform with the Town road grade
requirement. All of the lots are in excess of two
acres. The entire parcel has been cut from one lot
with one house to 10 lots, one of which has one house
on it.
Aft e
rawn
road
that
Town
fines
r d
At
ri
to
s d
1 p
i
t
9
t
i
1
scUs
orne
ht o
and
scre
ate
sion wit
y, the d
f way wi
will be
tion in
approval
h the Subdivision engineer and the
eveloper stated, the land for a
11 be.owned by the purchaser of
deeded over to the Town at the
the future and wi11 be noted on the
.
REVIEW LETTL.R SUBMIT"IE:D BY ENGINEER GEORGE SC:HLECHT*
1. Necommends the pond site and access easement be conveyed and
maintained by lot #5. The Town easement-be for emergency
repairs only.
Existing house, lot #10 show septic system and well on final
Plata DISCUSSION: Driveway of the existing house to access
Hartwood Road. The developer stated it would be difficult
at this time to have the driveway access Hartwood Road due to
the fill however, they would try sometime in the futLu e_i
is possible. They do not want it to be on_e,- a- f"-the
contingencies for final approval.sFIt is possible and before
the development is completed will have it access Hartwood
Road. Mr. Lavine stated he did not _think it was an
appropriate issue to be considered because it is an existing
house. John Davis stated it enhances public safety in
general, it is part of the overall subdivision and if it is
physically possible to do it thinks it should be done.
For final plan submission I am requesting that cross sections
through the road in the area of the deepest cuts and fills be
provided. All. ditches, culverts, and drainage structures,
whose maintenance is necessary to ensure the integrity of the
Town road, must be within the 60 foot right -of -way, or
subject to a Town drainage easement, allowing for proper
access and maintenance.
E
PB 9 -20 -91 P'G. 6
4. Grading plans and locations for the driveways on lot 115,
and for the Town of Dryden access easement to the pond site.
• DISCUSSION: Developer- stated if they can establish from the
road profile and the existing contours with George Schlecht
that the grading of the driveway will be reasonable, thinks
that will be adequate and will not have to show a contour map
of new grades. The board noted it would be required subject
to final plat approval.
5. Subject to health department approval.
60 A drainage study-and report for the project.
7. Road
construction
Chairman
must comply with the latest Town
specifications.
Lalley
asked
Acting
Chairman
Lalley
asked
if
there
was
any discussion
on Part 2
of
the
Full
Environmental
Assessment
Form
completed
on August-155
1991?
A review
followed
resulting
inn
MICHAEL HATTERY MOVED FOR A NEGATIVE DECLARATION.
SECOND BY JOHN DAVIS.
NO DISCUSSION.
® VOTE YES (4) C. BRENNER, M. HATTERY, J. DAVIS AND J. LALLEY
NO (0) ABSTENTION (1) M. LAVINE
NEGATIVE DECLARATION
MICHAEL HATTERY MOVED FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT AP'P'ROVAL SUBJECT TO THE
DISCUSSION IN GEORGE SCHLECHT'S. LETTER.
AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION BY JOSEPH LALLEYn
THE TOWN OF DRYDEN PLANNING BOARD WILL GRANT PRELIMINARY PLAT
APPROVAL SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONSn
1. THAT PRIOR TO THE FINAL PLAT APPROVAL THE DEVELOPER WILL
RECEIVE HEALTH DEPARTMENT APPROVAL FOR SEPTIC AND WATER
SYSTEMS AS SUGGESTED IN ITEM 5 OF GEORGE SCHLECHT'S LETTER
DATED SEPTEMBER 18, 19910
2. NUMBER 1 OF SCHLECHT'S LETTER — THE EXACT WORDING OF THE TOWN
EASEMENT TO THE POND, AND THE POND ITSELF BE DETERMINED BY
THE TOWN ATTORNEY AND INCORPORATED AS PART OF FINAL APPROVAL.
30 THE TOWN ENGINEERS REQUEST AS INDICATED IN ITEM NUMBER 3 IS
SATISFIED FOR FINAL PLAT APPROVAL"
PB 9 -20 -91 PG. 7
4. SATISFY ENGINEERS REQUEST FOR GRADING PLAN AS MENTIONED IN
ITEM NUMBER 4.
r50 LOT NUMBER ONE (1) DRIVEWAY WILL BE FROM HARTWOOD ROAD.
E. PRESENT DRAINAGE STUDY TO TOWN ENGINEER FOR APPROVAL PRIOR. TO
FINAL PLAT APPROVAL.
MOTION SECOND AS AMENDED BY JOHN DAVIS.
DISCUSSION:
VOTE YES
NO
(4) C. BRENNER, J. DAVIS, J. LALLEY, AND. M. HATTERY
(0) ABSTAINED (1) M. LAVINE
GRANTED PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL
PEREGRINE HOLLOW SUBDIVISION
SNYDER HILL ROAD BY VARN BROTHERS
PIRELIMINAI *tY SUBDIVISION HEARING REVIEW
• ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSEPH LALLEY
Present
Cayuga
for the
presentation is Ralph Varn, Larry Fabbroni and
Richard
Water Commission - K.
Kauffman,
Varn.
E.
30 Southern
Cayuga
Lake
IntermUnicipal
Department
Water Commission - K.
Kauffman,
P.
E.
Lead Agency
was declared
on August
it,,
1991.
All members
Review
present
acknowledged
the
receiving
a copy of
the
following
letters"
1.
Dry.den
Town
Supervisor
J. Sc•hug -
re"
lead
agency status.
`.
Town of
Ithaca
- F.
Forman, Town Planner
-
re" lead
agency
30 Southern
Cayuga
Lake
IntermUnicipal
Department
Water Commission - K.
Kauffman,
P.
E.
Executive
Director
- re" SEAR, FEAF
re"
Zoning
,
Review
Pursuant to 239-1
and m of
the
4. Tompkins
County
Department
of
Planning - J. Hanson,
Jr.
Commissioner-
-
re"
Zoning
Review
Pursuant to 239-1
and m of
the
NYS
General
Municipal
Law.
5. NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation - R. Nolan, Sr.
Environmental Analyst - re" SEQR /lead agency
66 Varn Brothers. Construction Corp. - Ralph Varn, pies. - re"
agenda placement at the August 159 1991 Town Board Meeting.
PB 9 -20 -91 PG. 8
At the request of Acting Chairman J. Lalley an overall review of
the project was presented to the public by Ralph Varn.
The subdivision is being proposed under Section 281 of the Town
Law, a cluster subdivision with four phases.
At this time they are asking for Areliminary aaproval -for the
first phase. The first phase has 56 attached single family units
and 24 detached single family units or 24 lots in it.
3
The second phase has approx. 20 or 5o single family detached
houses and another a attached town house style houses.
The third phase has another 18 attached houses.
The
fourth
Fabbroni'
will
phase
has
space
for
a
day
care faci1ity,14
are 3iZunits
more
attached
first
lay
single
and will
family
subdivision.
houses
and
40
attached
been
single
family units
for
the
elderly
or retirement
have
had TES
community
There
is
in the
future.
The
project
Fabbroni'
will
cover
a
10 to
Dryden
15 year
span.
There
are 3iZunits
in the
the
first
lay
phase
and will
take
subdivision.
3,4 to
5 years.
have
been
minor changes
•in
to the
road
alignment,
they
have
had TES
and
There
is
an access
off Snyder
look
Hill
Road
near-
the
Town Line. They
have
a
second
for
access
further
up
Snyder
Hill
Road
near the NYSE&G
power%
line.
As part of hie one they will bring a road in all the way to the
.phase one only. As we do phase two we have agreed with the Town
to bring the access road Out to Snyder Hill Road. We have agreed
with the Town to work on Snyder Hill Road because of the traffic
concerns, to im.rove the shoulders on Snyder Hill Road as well as
the sight distance at the entry. We will do part of the work and
the Town will do part of the work.
The project is served by municipal water and municipal sewer. it
will have gas avai
telephone and tele
Snyder Hill to hav
available, which w
on Snyder Hill and
l,able to it, with Un
vision. Make it pos
e access to the sewe
ill probably service
Snyder Court up to
We have to form a sewer district.
de
si
r
m
th
End of update
rground electric,
ble to the residen-F on
lines that we have
ost of the houses that are
e second entrance.
Ralph
Varn stated
Fabbroni'
that after meeting with the Town Board,they will
meet
Town of
Dryden
have been
Road specifications and have altered the road
into
one 200
foot
the
section.
Larry
Fabbroni'
noted
that
.there
have been
no
significant
changes
the
lay
out
of
the
subdivision.
There
have
been
minor changes
•in
to the
road
alignment,
they
have
had TES
and
an
Environmental
consultant
look
at
the
phase
one
areas in
detail
for
wet
lands.
1M}-L, FOP 9 -20 -91 PG. ,9
The wetlands were surveyed in ase one. There was a Federal
•Wetland in the 1939 area tha we s�_►bseq�_ ►ently moved building sites
to accommodate This area ay be reduced by the 1987 which is
being discussed as the era it may fall back to shortly This will
not change the proposal, but would affect the amount of wetland
which is affected crossing over with the road. By their
explanation Hydricy soil would be eliminated as a criteria.
w� ISSUE: We have addressed the se er�issue to the point.of
having capacity all the way back to the city to the existing sewer
lines that we would connect into. The District that we would be
proposing gives the Town one of two choices. To take the lands
excl'_►sively owned by the Varns' or the Foots' (land being purchased _
from them) or to expand the District to include all the
rp ,o.er^t_ies on Snyder Hill Road_
WATER
Has
been
addressed
completion
and
Bolton
day
Point has the report. The
Town Board
Hill
formed
the
sewer
district
Town
Line
and they had to prove there
was adequate
could
flow
for
the
area
served.
day
at
DRAINAGE Drainage areas splits into four separate areas and
probably 8 or 9 due to the ravines and water- ways which come down
off the hill and eventually cross Slaterville Road. The
subdivision will retain the additional flow generated by the
subdivision on the property for the 25 year storm and not to
impact the areas down stream any more than they are .presently
• impacted.
TRAFFIC The whole subdivision of 218 or 225 total units
predicted that would increase the traffic ultimately in 15 years
to 200012500 cars per day on Snyder Hill Road. Counts from the
Town of Ithaca on the order of about 1000 at the Town Line and
2500 at the base of the hill near where Snyder Hill .joins Pine
Tree Road. A Study of the existing width and shoulders on Snyder
Hill Road in the Town of Ithaca and found that the capacity is
there. They will only be using about half the capacity so the
quality of life and the environmental factor will stay quite
pleasing for the area. (based on other roads in Ithaca somewhere
between 9000 and 110QIO that carry that amount of traffic) Judd
Falls road between Ellis Hollow Road and Rt. 366 handles 10 to 12
thousand.
At the
end
of
completion
phase
one approximately 800 additional vehicles a
day
on
Sp der,
Hill
Road.
Projected
at the
completion
Road to
of
the
Counts
project
10 to
at
both
points
of the
Town
Line
there
consideration
could
be
3500
cars
per
day
at
the
Town of
Ithaca
Line
and
bO00
at
the
bottom
of
Snyder
Hill
and
Pine
Tree
Road.
Mr.
etc.
Fabbroni
the
also
road
is
stated
capable
that
of handling
based
on
9
his
to
studies
10 thousand.
of hand
books,
Ellis
Hollow
Road to
Maple
Avenue the
Counts
as high as
10 to
•From
12
thousand
and
both are
under
consideration
for
improvement
by
the
County.
PB 9 -20 -91 PG. 10
J. Lalley inquired if the Town Board granted the variance for the
right -of -way from Snyder Hill Road into the phase one development
• on September 5, 1991.
Town Board had approved it some time ago, there is a letter on
file according to Ralph Varn. L. Fabbroni said there was a
variance granted a long time ago that was the reason for the
opinion from the Town Board /Town Attorney and that would apply to
this subdivision period. Back in 1989 the Board asked for further
insurance that the first 200/300 feet of road would not be
blocked. The road has been designed with shoulders but then would
have a mountable curb and a walk way that goes up to Snyder Hill
Road. If it were necessary, due to an accident, ect., to reroute
traffic that will be wide enough to direct traffic around the
scene.
There will be full road width plus full shoulders mountable Curb
and the walk way for a total of 35 feet vs. a normal road of 20
feet.
IMPROVEMENTS
ALONG
SNYDER
HILL ROAD AT THE WEST ENTRANCE OF THE
PROPERTY, A
PART OF
PHASE
ONE.
L Fabbroni:
Proposing
with
than
the
Fire
there
Department
to put in
full 4
foot shoulders
on both
sides
people
of the
mow
road.
What
is now a
20 foot
to
the
edge.
No
trees
that
I
am
aware of,
there
is
a
mature
line
of
trees
but
it
is absolutely
road with
marginal
shoulders.
involved
First
in any
Phase
will
be approx.
from
the Town
Line to
Snyder
Hill
Court.
• There is adequate sight distance back to the City. Approx. 300
feet .down the line there is a little hL_km .in the road that we
would propose to work with the Highway Department to shave that or
to shift the road 4 feet to the North. One reason to shift the
road may be the water line. -
M. Lavine: What is the existing residential improvements along the
road that may end up being changed, even though they
are on municipal property?
L. Fabbronio None
other-
than
grass,
there
is
a
shoulder
there,
but
people
mow
grass right
up
to
the
edge.
No
trees
that
I
am
aware of,
there
is
a
mature
line
of
trees
but
it
is absolutely
not
involved
in any
of
the
shoulder
work for
improvements.
M. Lavinee Gn the shoulder and the potential movement of the road
four feet to the North you have mentioned this would be
a cost shared by the developers and the Town. In what
fashion?
L. Fabbronie We don't hav
talked about
and the deve
to the shout
• reply back b
Board.
e a specifi
the Town d
loper placi
der, that's
ut we have
c an
iggi
ng m
one
ment
swer to that. We h "ay.e
ng out the shoulders
aterial and rolling it
We don't have a
ioned it to the Town
U
•
•
PB 9 -20 -91 PG 11
J. Lalleyo Discussion with the Town Supervisor J. Schug and Town
Attorney Perkins recommends that ANY APPROVAL THAT WE
MIGHT GIVE TONIGHT WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE DETAILS OF
THAT AGREEMENT FOR THE IMPROVEMENTS ALONG SNYDER HILL
ROAD BEING WORKED OUT AND ASPIRED TO FOR FINAL FLAT
APPROVAL&
CLARIFICATION ON POTENTIAL RESIDENTIAL LAND LOSS IF THE ROAD IS
MOVED FOUR (4) FEET
J. Lalleye There is potential that the people on the North side of
the
is
.road
stated
will
have
a
road
are
way
that
is
2,3
North
or 4
feet
on
closer
actual
Counts
to
their
house
the
about,
and
the
people
house
on
the
South
the
side
will
East
of
have
the
center
line
are.
of
the road
houses
way,
not
the
sort
right
on
the
—of
—way
but the
within
roadway,
ten
feet
that
is
2,3
or 4
feet
edge.
a day.
By
using
the
10
we
used
the
extreme
further
and
not
away
from
their
low
house.
Highway
capacity:
come
to
L. Fabbronie
That
is
true
stated
however
there
are
no houses
the Current
on
the
North
side
on
where
actual
Counts
we
are
talking
the
about,
Town
the
last
house
Ithaca
is
to
the
The
East
of
where
the
entrances
are.
The
mature
houses
trees
sort
sit
on
the
property
line
within
between
ten
feet
and
of
the
trip'ends
toad
edge.
a day.
By
M. Lavined THERE IS NO CHANGE TO THE RIGHT— OF —WAYg ONLY A CHANGE
TO THE ROAD_ WHERE IS SITS WITHIN THE RIGHT —OF —WAY.
L. Fabbroni. The length of road in guestion is approx. 200
feet either ways ^riight at the entrance it would
be four feet, from the entrance a stretch West
and East.
MEETING OPENED FOR-PUBLIC COMMENT AT 9e30 PM
Mario Giannel'la of 6 dove drive: Comment about traffic, it is not
fair to Judd Falls to Snyder Hill because Snyder- Hill is a hill
and when it snows the cars swerve back and forth with lines of
cars littering the sides of the road. You double the traffic on
Snyder Hill you would have to in effect have the Town of Ithaca
plow much more frequently then they are now, if they don't it will
be a total disaster. The intersection of Snyder Hill and Fine
Tree is currently under study by Cornell University, so there will
be more information available. The tentative date for completion
of the study is December 3rd.
Don Willemsen of 330 Snyder Hill Road: Also questions the traffic
and is concerned about doubling the traffic which doesn't seem to
add up.
L. Fabbroni
stated
he
based
the Current
figures
on
actual
Counts
make
by
the
Town
of
Ithaca
Highways.
The
projections
for
houses
of this
sort
is
somewhere
between
6
and
10
trip'ends
a day.
By
using
the
10
we
used
the
extreme
and
not
the
low
side.
Highway
capacity:
come
to
a
Judd
stop
sign,
Falls
it
and
has
Forest
8000
Home
cars
have
a
day,
a.&Ate4A
Warren
hill
Road
when
hill
you
has
6000
cars
a
day.
It
is
not
unrealistic
to
assume
the
travel
trip
ends
will
be
35%
in
the
Westerly
direction
because
of
Cornell,
Ithaca
College
and
downtown.
•
•
M. Lavine
potential
Fabbroni
terms of
concerned
hazard by
stated he
vehicles.
PB 9 —E0 -91 PG. 12
if the developers thought there might
referring to the other roads. However
used the analogy to show the capacities
be a
L.
in
Chris O'Connor of 143 Sapsucker Woods Road, representing the Varna
Fire Department: Main concern the developers are proposing a
small size village in the corner of the Fire District and is
concerned about fire protection. The response time is approx. 10
to 15 minutes to the area due to hilly terrain. Concerned about
Water and fire protection in the area being served by municipal
water. One town house., common wall — common wall for a cluster of
seven is an area of 5*0' by 138' and would need, according to the
National -'ire Academy, if one were fully involved (engulfed in
fire) and one exposed is 5,7SO gallons. Mr. O'Connor has studied
the Engineer report and accordingly the hydrants put in would have
a fire flow of "750 gallons a minutes Water is marginal now with
the Hungerford Hill tank.
J. Lalleyc What
affect
The
if
any
would
could.you
on the
a. lesser
location
degree.
foresee
the
substation.
The
Ellis
if
Hollow
this
development
Town
Center-
were
doesn't
to
move
change
the
response
ahead,
Point is
with
a
great deal
discrepancies
the
development.
proposal that
you would have a substation say in the Ellis Hollow
Community Center? Would it make it more likely or less
likely, and what would that do to response time if that
were to happen?
C.
O'Connor;
The
City Fire Department
It
would
depend
on the
a. lesser
location
degree.
of
the
substation.
The
Ellis
creation
Hollow
matter
Community
Town
Center-
area
doesn't
would
not
change
the
response
Bolton
Point is
time
a
great deal
discrepancies
for this
development.
on
the
It
would
change
the response time a great deal for the rest of the Ellis Hollow
Road.
J. Lalleyc The extent of your coverage to the Town of Dryden is to
the Town of Ithaca Line, and the Town of Ithaca Eastern
Heights section is served by the Ithaca Fire Department
under contract to the Town of Ithaca?
Mr. O' Connor:
Correct.
The
City Fire Department
mean
has the same
concern but to
a. lesser
that Water
degree.
and
J. Lalley: Discussed
creation
this
matter
with the
Town
Engineer
and he
doesn't
share
the
same concern
that
Bolton
Point is
suggesting.
Wood Lane.
There are
discrepancies
on
L. Fabbr-•onie Before final approval we will be able to prove to
them that they have significant capacity.
J. Lalleyo There is a study that George Schlecht is conducting
that
would
perhaps
mean
the
elimination
of
that Water
District
and
the
creation
of
a
new Water District
that
would
yo
all
the
way
out
to
Red
Wood Lane.
There are
discrepancies
on
the
water
stugy
hat need
to be
resolved
conclusively
before
we
get anywhere
near final
approval.
r
PB 9 -20 -91 PG. 13
Mr. Reid of Snyder Hill Road: Addressed the water issue. The
last fire hydrant on Snyder Hill Road is 1300 feet from the
beginning of the district. The reason being is that is the end of
any possibility of fire flow type of water and was put in by the
State Engineers for that reason. There is no requirement that you
have a certain flow for a Water District except for health reasons
and this was put in for residential water. You do not have a
capacity for fire because it will not even run up to the top of
the District. the previ.oUs study showed it was not economically
feasible to form a District out to Red Wood Lane.
Also
addressed
his
concerns
about
the traffic
and snow storm
situation.
to serve
a line
Enough
cars will
be stopped
still
at the top of Fine Tree to
totally
clog
tine whole
road
system
from
Cornell to Rt. 79 with one
of
those
snow storms.
from
subdivision.
the intersection
L. Fabbronie There is afire flow report in the appendix that
Bolton point recently did on one of those
hydrants on Snyder Hill Road near the entrance of
the subdivision. It shows they drew 1,36
gal /min. The part -above the pump station can
only serve the needs of those homes above it on
Snyder Hill Road. Phase one and two would be
served by gravity below that pump station.
Phase three and four
the system.
These town houses wi
and have a two hour
The spread of fire i
for this application
seem appropriate. T
to reduce friction 1
would c
11 be bu
fire wal
s a lot
to this
hey are
oss for
a
i
1
1
p
f
11 for an
It. accord
between
ess, so t
situation
roposing
ire flow.
upgrade to
ing to Code
each unit.
he numbers
does not
a 1:' line
Mr.
line,
O'Connor
Reide
and
The line
regardless
going
how
off
big
to serve
a line
the
below,
are obviously
subdivision
you
still
to
is an 8"
have an 8"
restriction
resolved
here
before
at
that
point.
(8"
line
from
subdivision.
the intersection
Board
of
Snyder
Hill
and
the
line
from
Hungerford
wide
Hill
tank)
The
first
Mr.
O'Connor
noted
the
There
problems
are obviously
need
discrepancies
to
be
resolved
here
before
approval
and
of
the
Planning
subdivision.
Board
Perhaps
the
discrepancies
further
aren't as
wide
as
they
The
first
appeared
who
are
in
earlier.
My
figures
of 5750 gpm
needed
fire
flow
assumes
a
fully
involved
cluster
the
of seven, the
two
hour
fire
District,
wall
reduces
paid
that
that
considerably.
Water
District,
the
Mr.
Willemsene
There
are obviously
discrepancies
here
and
the
Planning
Board
should
take
a
further
look.
The
people
who
are
in
the
Water
District,
paid
for
that
Water
District,
the
Town
did
very
little
to
Support
that
Water
District
with
regards
to
any
funds.
There
are
a
number
of
people
with
lower
incomes
than
they
had.
Itt_was
written
in.
the
original
district
that
any
improvements
to
the
District
in the
area
be
borne
by
the
• developer_.
PB 9 -20 -91 PG. 14
J. Lalley:, ANY CHANGES TO THE WATER DISTRICT THAT ARE APPROVED BY
• THE TOWN NEED TO RECOGNIZE THL OBLIGATIONS OF THOSE
AGREEMENTS AND CONDITIONS.
D. Wil'lemseno You put a subdivision in you do it right, I am not
going to oppose it personally, I think that land is going to be
developed at some point in time. You need to listen to the
residence of the area because the quality of life is one affect.
The entrance road that is being proposed is totally inadequate,
the Town should require a second road immediately_._ I would like
to know if anything has been done with gaining access to Rt. 79?
L. Fabbronic Everything that we have talked about would be at
the developers expense. We had looked at
paralleling a 8" with another 8" at the point of
constraint or coming through the Town Park from
Sky View Lane with another 1E" line. The study
in front of me indicates neither of those are
necessary. If in talking with all of the
agencies prior to final approval it turns up that
is the level that everyone has to have, that's
what will be proposed at that time. We are not
trying to back down from what is recognized for
residential and fire flow.
Access to Rt. 79
• (15 to 18%). Th
developers are n
from, the Foote
the property is
Slaterville Road
slope up to the
droe p off the la
We need a contro
feasible other t
I
is in excess of a 10% slope
e one piece of property that the
e.gotiating with to buy property
property, their driveway up to
a ftgytglr'acuta ang'1e to
t'o develope any kind of decent
home. There is a very A,rWX
st 20 feet to Slaterville Road.
lled right -of -way there nor is it
han a long "S" winding road.
In terms of a second outlet to Slaterville Road
in the future however, if and when we get into
discussions with'the Town of Ithaca. The
preliminary.discussions with some of the Town
Planners indicated they would want a right -of -way
projected into the property to the West of the
property we control. That would in the long term
provide anther outlet to the road you see cut (on
map) off Rt. 79 but that is a long way in the
future. Oijr second access is in Dhase 2, not
phase 4, at the east end of the project. In
Phase c it is going to be completely parallel
other then the entrance to the project where we
have made those special provisions for the
mountable curb.
Mr. Shaw: Wondered what the variation of the traffic count, over
a period of time was, according to the "count boxes placed in the
road? ,
L. Fabbroni:
vary as much
From
as
PB 9- 20 -91,
PG. 15
my
Hill
experience
cars from
the
are
mail
with
counts
the
Charlottef
Submitted
a two page
letter
from
John L. Hyde of 354
Road.
time
foot
Not that
of day,
of the
the
hill
which
they
will
week
has
would
Snyder Hill
Road which
he wished read,
most
Town
everything has been
Line,
the
1000.
and wished it
put in the
record.
but depending
the
The
(attached at end of
•discussed
minutes)
the
the
number
is
the
approx. 2500.
last available
to
Mr. Shaw: Wondered what the variation of the traffic count, over
a period of time was, according to the "count boxes placed in the
road? ,
L. Fabbroni:
vary as much
From
as
-
1000
my
Hill
experience
cars from
the
are
mail
with
counts
the
road
and
Town
seen
of
on
Ithaca
Snyder
you
Hill
can
Road.
time
foot
Not that
of day,
of the
the
hill
which
they
will
week
has
would
at
and the
varied
the
as
time
much
of her
Town
of
as
Line,
the
1000.
year
out by
but depending
the
The
count
sustained
on
at
the
the
number
is
the
approx. 2500.
last available
to
have
cars
The
count
count
that
in
the
the
Also
report
Town
of
that
is
Ithaca
G.tEL
last
from
had.
December
1988
to
Kay
Barnes
-
353
Snyder
Hill
Concerned with the Eastern
with
are
mail
made
boxes,
Road_
the
etc.
road
and
Concerned
about
the
four
foot
shoulders
which
the
will
be over
road.
the.
top
of her
water
sewer
box
out by
the
road
and
is
it
smart
to
have
cars
driving
over
it?
Also
concerned
that
the
G.tEL
last
addition
- across
they
rebuilt
to
the
shoulders
Miss
would
make
an
After
bank
additional
problem.
was
not well
(snow
compacted.
plow
has
thrown
particles,
has
loosened
stones
towards
her
home
are
now
and
is
that
concerned
get
about
windows,
up
etc.)
from the
plow.
J. Lalley:
that into
Whatever
consideration
403 Snyder
Hill
improvements
along
Concerned with the Eastern
with
are
mail
made
boxes,
to
the
etc.
road
and
will
will
take
not
harm
the
boxes
out
by
the
road.
•Gt;�
1;
oS
Jim
the
G.tEL
last
us
time
- across
they
rebuilt
the
road from
the shoulders
Miss
Barnes:
with
run
After
bank
repaving
gravel
and
was
not well
compacted.
That
has
loosened
Lip
and
there
are
large
stones
that
get
picked
up
from the
plow.
The
intent
1
hope
would
be
to put
macadam
shoulders
on.
•
L. Fabbroni: Stated Crushed lime stone.
J.
Dekay -
403 Snyder
Hill
Road:
Concerned with the Eastern
outlet of the
to 'the road
road going to
with a dip in
the
it and
complex, the trees are very close
it is very hard to see in that
area.
L. Lalley: The Town has sic specifications and provisions for
siqht distance.
R. Varn: As Part of phase 2,3 and 4 we will talk about the
improvements from Snyder Hill Court. They would more
than likely be a part of phase `. q5-A
PB 9 -20 -91 PG. 16
John Peverly at 348 Snyder Hill Road.. In phase 1, I would like
•better access than what is in the plans right now, it should be
looked at very carefully (phase L entrance incorporate into phase
1.). Fine _crushed lime stone used in building the shoulders will
also Rresent some problems that Kay was talking about. Perhaps
that is something that should be reconsidered. If.you are going
to do something to improve the road and it needs it now, the
shoulder should be built to sustained the traffic, crushed lime
stone is no better than crush run.
A good section of the No
shoulder at the present
deal of filling and reps
I question if you want t
would wish a commitment
r^ t
ti
ad
0
be
h side of the r
me and adding 4
ing of the ditc
put that amount
fore final.appr
oad there
feet wil
h to hand
of resou
ovalft
is vi
l mean
le wat
rC_es i
rtUally no
a great
er flow.
nto it and
J. Lalleye The road surface ends and there is a ditch now from
the entrance to the subdivision to Snyder Hill Courts
Our
expectations
are that these
issues will
be dealt
we
with.
The
exact
written agreement
between the
developer^
and
the
Town
THE
is something
RECORD
that has
MACADAM WOULD LAE
yet to be worked
BETTER THAN
out.
CRUSHED LIME
NOTED FOR
STONE.
home
your
own
and Reid.
would
look
like
and
if.they
usanjDjEball. — 225 Snyder Hi
development going to be bet
•there a possibility of putt
empty lot there that is no
1
w
i
t
1 Roa
een m
ng it
big
du Is the only entrance to the
y house and Reids house or is
at the Town Line? There is a
enough to put a house on.
L.
Fabbronia
Although
we
don-It
Wished
own
the
lot,
phase
1 is intended
to
have
its
only
entrance
between
home
your
own
and Reid.
would
D.
Wil'lemsene
Wished
to
know
what
the
finished
home
/houses
would
look
like
and
if.they
would
be
in
keeping
with
the
neighborhood.
R. Varn o They would be like the other homes that they have had
done in the past. Dove Drive.
PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED
For the record R. Fletcher and M. Lavine will be abstaining from
voting,
Discussion: As e t me is la t arly they 4as d isc�.�ssion if
perhaps the me . ing houId ad.' urned. ss� if
ing ou e �e s e itra e of ase ` be
included phase 1. e Board ceeded t t AF..
PEREGRINE HOLLOW SUBDIVISION
PART E - PROJECT IMPACTS AND THEIR MAGNITUDE
REVIEW OFFICER - MlCHAEL HATTERY
IMPACT ON LAND
1.
Will
construction
the
proposed
of
action result
in a physical change to the
project
(15
foot rise
site?
100 foot
YES
site?
Any
construction
on
slopes
of
15%
or
greater,
(15
foot rise
per
100 foot
of length),
site?
or
where
LARGE
the
general
slopes
in the
project
area
Can
exceed
impact
be
10 %.
mitigated
POTENTIAL
in excess
of 20,000 gallons
LARGE IMPACT
day.
YES
by
project
change?
Construction that will continue for more than 1 year or
involve more than one phase or stage. POTENTIAL LARGE IMPACT
Can impact be mitigated by project change? YES
Will
there
Action
will
be
an
effect
to any unique or unusual land forms
found
on
the
IMPACT
site?
NO
IMPACT ON WATER
NO I .
• 4. NO
50 Will proposed action affect surface or groundwater quality or
quantity? YES
Proposed
action
Action
will
substantial
adversely
affect groundwater.
SMALL TO
MODERATE
IMPACT
LARGE
IMPACT
can impact
be
Proposed
action
would
project
use water
in excess
of 20,000 gallons
per
day.
POTENTIAL
LARGE
IMPACT
Can
impact
be
mitigated
by pro.ject.change?
YES
L %. Will proposed action alter drainage flow or patterns, or
surface water runoff? YES
Proposed
action
may
cause
substantial
erosion.
POTENTIAL
LARGE
IMPACT
can impact
be
mitigated
by
project
change YES
IMPACT ON AIR
7v NO
IMPACT ON PLANTS AND ANIMALS
•
80 NO
9. NO
•
is
PB 9 -20 -91 PG. 18
IMPACT ON AGRICULTURAL LAND RESOURCES
10. NO
IMPACT ON AESTHETIC RESOURCES
11. YLS
Project components that will result in the elimination or
significant screening of scenic views known to be important
to the area. SMALL TO MODERATE: IMPACT
IMPACT ON HISTORIC: AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL RESOURCES
12a NO
IMPACT ON OPEN SPACE AND RECREATION
13. NO
IMPACT OIV TRANSPORTATION
14. Will there be an effect to.existing transportation sy.stems?
YES
Proposed action will result in major traffic problems
POTENTIAL LARGE IMPACT Can impact be mitigated by project
change YES
Other
impacts°
NUMBER
OF
CARS
250
INCREASE
TO 3,250 TOTAL
BUILT
OUT -
PHASE Iq
800
CARS
PER
DAY
IMPACT ON ENERGY
15. Will proposed
or energy sup
Proposed Acti
energy transm
single or two
commercial or
action affect
ply'? YES
on will regUir
ission or supp
family reside
industrial us
NODE AND ODOR IMPACTS
16. NO
IMPACT 0I\1 PUBLIC; HEALTH
1i. NO
the comm
e the cre
ly system
nces .or t
e. SMALL
unity's sources of fuel
ation or extension of an
to serve more than 50
o serve a major
;TO MODERATE IMPACT
•
•
i.
PB 9 -20 -91 PG 19
IMPACT ON GROWTH AND CHARACTER OF COMMUNITY OR NEIGHBORHOOD
18, Will proposed action affect the character of the existing
community? YES
Proposed action will cause a change in the density of land
use SMALL TO MODERATE IMPACT
Development will create a demand for additional community
services (e.g. schools, police and fire, etc.) SMALL TO
MODERATE IMPART
Proposed
would
Action
will
set
an
important
precedent for future
projects
000
POTENTIAL
Mitigatio
to
be,
public
LARGE
IMPACT
approval
be
related
and recommend
to
potential
by
the
Proposed Action will create or eliminate employment SMALL Td
MODERATE IMPACT
190 Is
would
there,
ester^
or is
there
likely
000
p ^ daye
Mitigatio
to
be,
public
plat
controversy
approval
be
related
and recommend
to
potential
by
the
adverse
Eng.
ect as
proposed
meets
environmental
pacity
flows
impacts?
and
YES
PART u -
IMPACT ON Ia,AND
ti) Co tr�_'ction slopes: Mitigated by drainage plan that
woul be approved by Town Engineer George Schlecht
before final plat approval.
(L) Construction for more than 1 yearn Can be mitigated
through proper managemen of the construction site.
Maintenance of terrier (vegetative); construction
schedule. /
IMPACT ON WATER:
(1) Proposed
gallons
based on
The pr^ j
ac ion
would
use
ester^
in excess
of 2�►,
000
p ^ daye
Mitigatio
by
Final
plat
approval
be
review
and recommend
tions
by
the
Town
Eng.
ect as
proposed
meets
pacity
flows
and
concerns.
•
PB 9 -20 -91
IMPACT ON WAi'`R "NTINUED...
(2) Plroposed ction may cause
Mitiqated review of,-To
IMPACT ON TRANSPORTATIONS
(1)
IMPACT
Proposed action
Mitigation by
PG. ;21 0
7 stantial
engineer.
erosions
result in major traffic problemsa
Se con entrance mmediately in Phase 1.
ester Phases connect \o Route 79 through Eastern
He i ght's.
GROWTH AND CHARACTER OF COMMUNITY
This is the first cluster project corn
Town Board and Planning Board, and wil
effects on how future decisions in the
G --
IGHBORHOODs
idered by the
ls have important
wn will be
A MOTION WAS MADE BY CLAUDIA BRENNER TO DECLARE A CONDITION
NEGATIVE DECLARATION. SECOND BY JOHN DAVIS.
DISCUSSIONS
The
issues
is a serious
Further
were a main concern, how it will affect the quality
of
discussed
life
is broad
issue.
the
three motions a condition
negative,
of
negative
kind the Town
has done.
I think
or a
positive
period
declaration;
or not vote at all
which
Condition
J.
Lalley
may
did
good
not
think
quite
was
proper.
Traffic
The
issues
is a serious
enough
were a main concern, how it will affect the quality
of
thought
life
is broad
issue.
also the
largest
and first
J. Lalley:
The
traffic
is a serious
enough
issue.and
thought
the project
is broad
enough,
also the
largest
and first
of
its
kind the Town
has done.
I think
the
a public comment
period
(30
days) on,a
Condition
Negative
Declaration
may
be a
good
idea.
were
quite
J.
Daviss
Strongly
thought
the
public
spoke
to
the
issues
.tonight,
and
felt
they
were
quite
interested
in
the
project.
The
public while they will not like the adjustment period, will in
fact see this as a good project and fells their- attitudes were not
negative but .positive.
The Planning Board has called this project quite good. The County
Planning Board said the impacts may be significant, didn't say
will said may, we have determined that through the EAF. We have a
quality of life issue, we've heard from the public;-we have to
have the courage to make a decision. All of the engineering
things have been addressed in a very good manar,,they haven't
addressed the technical problems quite adequately to the extent.
that they still need addressing and will be resolved through
Bolton Point, Town Engineer, Town of Ithaca, etc..
P
FHB 9 -20 -91 PG. E1
J. Lalleyc With all due respect to Mr. Fabbroni he has presented
us with a set of numbers and suggest that the, traffic counts on
Snyder Hill are well within the mechanical,capabilities of the
road. Yet there are a number of people who got up and questioned
whether the road will tolerate the additional traffic, not from
the mechanical.but neighborhood standpoint. There is a serious
question' and I think that question deserves some examination, it's
not a light question to be answered.
I think the additional traffic has some impact beyond the scope of
this agency, such as the Town of Ithaca.
M.
Lavine:
reiterated the Tompkins
Department of Planning Board
A condition
negative
he leaves
wished
Declaration
the meeting
is
a
request
for
without
made by J.
due
some
positive
the hour of
the
response
decision was
reach on the EAF this
from
the
Board
may
consider
involved
not
agencies,
and
only
involved
have
to
make
agencies
financial
to
comment
decision
on the
potential
I
will
significant
drop
impacts.
it.
If
they
Lalley
find,reason
stated
that
any of
the
potential
for
the
significant
record,
impacts
if
will
the Board
indeed
be
significant
neg.
then
that's
could
cause
for requiring
the
an
EIS,
motion
if
being
they
don't
then
the
conditional
negative
declaration
is
final.
J.
Davis
reiterated the Tompkins
Department of Planning Board
letter.
if
he leaves
wished
L. Fabbroni wished to get a clarification from them.
R.
Varn
to
stated
Brenner
if
he leaves
wished
the meeting
to
withdraw
tonight
the
without
made by J.
due
some
positive
the hour of
the
response
decision was
reach on the EAF this
from
the
Board
may
consider
the
not
to
of
develope. I
have
to
make
a
financial
decision
and
I
will
drop
it.
J.
Lalley
stated
there
is
comment
for
the
record,
if
the Board
granted
a
neg.
dec.,
could
result
in
the
motion
being
overturned. Believes there are issues which need to be addressed.
Claudia
and wished
to
withdraw for
Brenner
wished
to
withdraw
the
motion
made by J.
due
to
motion was withdrawn after
the hour of
the
evening
decision was
reach on the EAF this
evening.
(12:3O)
and
the
flustration
of
decisions
and
discussions,
and wished
to
withdraw for
more information before a
motion is
made.
Notation
made by J.
Davis
indicated the
motion was withdrawn after
further
discussion
and no
decision was
reach on the EAF this
evening.
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