HomeMy WebLinkAbout1986-08-28,i
TOWV 40F DRYDEN
PLANNING BOARD
SPECIAL WORK SETS IOiti
AUGUST 28,1986
Planning Board met Aug.28,1986 at 8:00PM for special work session
with G,EVANS on zoning ordinance. Members present: R.CHASE,J „LEE,
H.SLATER,CHR.B.CALDWELL. Members absent: B.LAVINE,R,M.BOBNICK,
H,LAMPILA,,& Z.O.S.STEWART, Also present: G.EVANS,M.WEBB,C,BROWN,
M.CREASY,
CALDWELL: We're concerned with difference between P.U.D.,special
permit, floating zone.
EVANS: Sections labeled P.U.D. are close to what's known as
floating zone. A floating zone is designed by creating regulaVions
W/o mapping, P.U.D. on the other hand is wide open, You have basic
perimeter but you don't say where it would go necessarily, To
criticize regulation rules out certain kinds of mixed developments
:that are purpose for having planned unit development. I believe
you have 3 types; residential, commercial, & industrial - -what that
means is, it rules out combined residential & commercial develop-
ment. You're putting a lot of restraints on procedure that it
wasn't designed for. Floating zones are another matter. If ydu
want control to that degree, make floating zone, call it that,
& let it go- -it's something not planned. It's not up to me to say
which way it should go, it depends on Town & what they want to do,
Using proper terminology avoids confusion. Did you have any specif'l
questions?
CALDWELL: I think general feeling of public & Boards was to limit
with less flexability so you knew what was & wasn't allowed.
Wouldn't you say Town Board wanted clear definitions?
M.WE.BB: Yes. We felt too much RC zone, which allows almost any-
thing under certain circumstances. When you have an open meeting
!- everyone comes to "holler” or complain, and. you're suppose to sit
there & make decision which way to go. Should try to be more
definite w/o so many decisions. It
EVANS: You may be well advised to drop P.U.D. & floating zone, &
concentrate on very carefully considered boundaries of existing
zones.
CALDWELL: Could you do a rezoning if there's something vast in
Isolated spot?
EVANS: Absolutely! You could create a new zone in matter of 2• -3
months. Even though I'm talking about removing some of more
flexible procedures from ordinance, it does not mean you can't
change it.
CALDWELL* Has anyone else felt same way?
H.SLATER: You mean as far as not wanting to see all the looseness
we have? I think we should ask Mrs.Brown & Mrs. Creasy what thgy
have heard.
C.BROWN: People we've talked to, want to know where they stand
before they put a lot of money in something. They want to know
what's going to happen around them and what's allowed happen,
CALDWELL: Zoning is obviously not the total answer, but it does
give us some direction.
M,WEBB: It shows that our most restrictive zone is where all the
construction is going on,
EVANS: If you changed the word restrictive to protective, it may
help.
General agreement.
r
2.
R,CHASE: Can we, or do we want to, exclude special permits? Seems r.
Town Board is in some degree of agreement on this.
CALDWELL: I'd think there Would be either a review process(not
as lengthy as present one) or something where scale might be �®
minimal impact.
R,CHASE: You may be talking about interpretation of zone descript-
ion.
CALDWELL: We always had questions if something is neighborhood
service & facility, Sometimes inconvenient to go clear downtown,
H.CHASE: I: wondered about doing away with special permits in
certain zones, We do want to set aside residential & use word
protective, It's already been proven many people want a more
protective zone!
CALDWELL: Remember when Etna. wanted 4 gas stations, but not just
any old place?
EVANS: That's sort of thing Special permit designed for, There is
no place in N.Y.State enabling legislation that says you can use
special permits- -sort of an administrative fabrication that grew
out of experience over last 40 yrs. or so, In 1976 need for this
kind of procedure recognized & passed legislation to allow muni-
cipalities to do this type of thing, but they gave it special name,
Site Plan Review & way they've written it, it is power given to
Planning Board & includes relatively long list of decisive criteria
about whether something is in fact allowed, I'd. have to say there
Is special. need for neighborhood facilities. They're conscious of
fact they can't go just any old place, they have to meet certain
location & design criteria that other areas don't. I'd certainly
urge you to keep SPR,
CALDWELL: itIert, do you have any idea on how Town Board wants this
handled?
M,WEBB: I'd like to see person applying for permit prove ' need
for their proposal, This way, if you already have 4 of whatever,
(maybe gas stations) in a neighborhood, it would be difficult, to
prove real need for a, fifth one! Town Bd. trying to get away from
someone coming in for special permit & reversing things on them
saying it says in zoning I can have this, so I'm applying for i.ti
We want their proof of need for whatever proposed -- therefore it
ca.n be allowed! This needs to be spelled out!
H.SLATER: Is_ your concern that they may fail -& leave empty building
w /parking lot growing weeds or that you don't want to see another
gas station?
M,WEBB: I'm thinking mostly of residents in area. I can't imagine
wanting 4 gas stations or such in same area when 1 would do.
CALDWELL: What is neighborhood use versus something that may
really attract business, Something that started out to be neighbor-
hood fruit stand used by local residents could grow & attract
customers from miles around -until it gets out of hand.
M.WEBB: Yes- -once something is started. & it expands w/o approval
Trre have nothing in ordinance to prevent it. It should be written
in ordinance they must come back for approval before they car.
expand,
.CREASY: We've noticed that tenants seem to be "immune" from
zoning,
EVANS: You find some truly inventive interpretations of zoning
here & there. There's substantial amount of educational training
of population in area before zoning regulations can come to full
course. People have to be familiar with it, know what it is and
what it means to them so when they see something going on they
don't have to have helpless reaction to this. As far as tenants
being subject to it -- occupancy of space should require occupancy
permit. If just continuing residence year after year w /no changes -
no permit required, but if started doing some other different
activities then permit should be required.
General discussion of home businesses growing into major business
until it's no longer a home - -only a business.
EVANS: If you don't have some kind of permit requirement before
part of space is modified, there's no stopping it. A periodic
requirement for occupancy permit applies to certain things - -a
business activity could be visited & certified every year or two.
In case of rental residency you could require periodic inspection
of those certificates. You must tailor this to meet your needs.
You don't need to get O.P. every year, just to continue living
In your house, but should design it to catch these expansions &
billowing activities. I own some rental property in Ithaca & it
has reasonable inspections. {'
CALDWELL* What's our obligation as Township to have multipl
residences & maybe mobile home parks? I'm thinking of housing
stock for more moderate income & in theory multiple residenceso
EVANS: I've never heard that questioned. No such obligation, on
the other hand, mobile home parks enjoy a peculiar status. I think
by either Court of Appeals or State Controller, a municipality
cannot exclude mobile homes. They must either allow them on in-
dividual lots or in parks. They do not have to respond to fact
there is no vacancies in mobile home parks by allowing expansion.
If you have mobile home park & it's full, you've met our obligation:
as far as mobile homes are concerned. Multiple residence on the
other hand rely on market to answer questions like that,.
C.BROWN: I have question on mobile home parks. You were talking
about review for occupancy permit on quality of housing. Is there
any review of mobile home parks from time to time to be sure
they are kept up?
II.WEBB: There's nothing done now,
EVANS: Some Towns have separate mobile home ordinance which
involves annual licensing inspection.
M.WEBB:We have ordinance but no inspection. It should be
tightened up! We have zoning problem in Dryden now, They say the
owner can't afford to fix it up -- instead of saying "Fix it!" Chat's
why we're in trouble & that's why people complainl Some are not
even meeting Health standards.
H.SLATER: Then they should be closed down until they do -- whether
or not they can afford it, that's a crutchl
M,WEBB: Absolutelyl Only thing that can be done on Town Board
level is put in ordinance they gust be on public water & sewer.
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H.SLATERt'"Ihat's good fc ones applying now. I hink yearly
Licensing is the thing i;o get things cleaned up & kept that way.
CALDWELL :They should provide current permit from Health Dept,
EVANS:A simple maintenance thing(garbage dumpsters,paving,upkeep.).�
?.CHASE: If you close down a park,what becomes of residents?
CALDWELL:'That's,something we'll have to investigate, some sort of
permit procedure(bringing in old parks -- putting them on public
water & sewer, & some sort of criteria on expectations.)Gary,you
have 3 definitions on subdivisions(rural,minor & major.)Where
there's no division of land, but new road exists- -what if someone
says they're going to make a road here -- apparently we have power
to review & comment under State law, but I don't think, at least
under current ordinance, we have any authority over new roads.
(Where it's going to be put or whether it exits or not.)
M.WEBB:Right now Town Highway Dept. has all that.
EVANS: Town Bd, doesn't have to accept a road for maintenance,etc.
CALDWELL: There's been a situation where under our current
ordinance you could put 2 lots in within such & such a time period
w/o going thru procedures as long as lots themselves are on existin
road. Sometimes they'll build a road & put 2 lots in later. It won'
be subdivision. I think that's something we should avoid,
M,WEBB* That's private rd. until they turn it over to Town, then it
has to meet specifications,
EVANS: Even if it does meet specs, you can still say no. You'd want
to make that understood. You've located a loophole here and languag
could be included. to cover that.
M.WEBB :You can't sell property if It isn't on public rpHa.d,bank won'
give a loan.
CALDWELL: Land seems to get sold off after fact of putting one houg
in behind another, Sometimes they put road in first where there. -®
shouldn't be one.
J.LEF: I think it's quite restrictive to say you can't build road
on your own property, but it would be alright to say it had to be
put somewhere else. I don't know if you'd call it a private drive.
CALINELL: Private drive would be fine for one house. Trouble is
where there's more than one house per driveway.
C.BROWN concerned with 2,3,4 mobile homes being put in off West
Dryden Rd, Questioned if application had been made, stated there w�
road being put in.
H.SLATER.& There were some people in to talk with us about that -- -we
told them what was necessary for them to be in compliance. We
didn't see them again.
CALDlUELL: This is what concerns me about echo housing and so forth,
What do we do about elderly parent or grandparent or whatever. Whe±
Is legitimate need? Maybe they say OK you can stay in little place
"out back"- -then somethtg happens and you sell "out back" and line
becomes higglety pigglety,
EVANS: Echo housing has some good features- -good example of where
C.U. is inspected every year, to see what is going on. If resident
who was living "out back" is no longer there then no C.O. issued
following year. That way designed to work:, temporarily,
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