HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-07-10Page 1 of 7
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Town of Dryden
Dryden Agriculture Advisory Committee
July 10, 2013
Members Present: Kim LaMotte, Joe Osmeloski, Doug Barton, Evan Carpenter
(Chairman)
Town Board Liaison: Steve Stelick
Town Staff Present: none
Conservation Board Liaison: Craig Schutt
Planning Board Liaison: Craig Anderson
Meeting called to order at 7:38 PM by Chairman Carpenter.
1. Review and approval of minutes from May 8 and June 12, 2013.
J. Osmeloski moved to approve the minutes and D. Barton seconded the motion. The
minutes were unanimously approved.
The minutes from the unofficial meeting of June 12, 2013 were reviewed without
comments.
2. Town of Dryden Agricultural Profile update:
K. LaMotte asked if there was a way to update the Agricultural Profile that was done in
2003 by Cornell Cooperative Extension. Based on the scope of the Profile, she asked if
it is possible to apply for a grant to cover the cost of the research.
S. Stelick asked C. Anderson if he had looked at the Grant and if it is the same as the
one they looked at earlier. He was interested in when the grant money was being
dispersed.
C. Anderson said that he believes they are granting money this month which is why
the Agriculture Committee wanted the Town Board to jump on the application back in
May or June. As far as he knows, there is some money still in the kitty that will be
dispersed this fall.
S. Stelick asked if K. LaMotte had a monetary figure in mind for the grant? At this
point, the Ag Committee doesn’t know how much they might need. C. Anderson
pointed out that depends on the extent the Ag Committee wants to go.
S. Stelick said that is up to the Ag Committee and something that they need to decide
on. The amount of funds requested can be pared back later.
E. Carpenter wondered how much this kind of report should cost? There isn’t really an
answer to that, it depends on what the Ag. Committee wants to accomplish.
K. LaMotte suggested redoing the Ag Profile from 2003 and complete a discussion and
analysis of the questions provided on the hand out.
C. Anderson stated the maximum amount of the grant is $25,000 with a matching
amount of 25% from the Town. He suggested narrowing down what the Ag Committee
wants to accomplish and then approach Cornell Cooperative Extension about doing
the Profile.
C. Schutt said he has had a conversation with Monica at Cooperative Extension in
which she offered assistance. Cooperative Extension has recently completed similar
surveys for nearby towns.
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J. Osmeloski asked who was going to do the write up for the Grant? S. Stelick isn’t
worried about that yet and preferred the Ag Committee to determine what they want to
accomplish.
C. Anderson pointed out that completing the profile will help with the Open Space
Plan as well. He said that when the process started, no one could actually say how
many farms there are in Dryden. Then he asked for a list of farmers but no such list
exists. He was surprised that the Town doesn’t even know who the major land owners
are and who actually has the open space.
S. Stelick pointed out that the criteria of a farmer and what a farm is, are very
important.
D. Barton asked if one of the things they are trying to do is include open land that
isn’t being farmed?
E. Carpenter started asking if they were looking for farms that are being profitably or
unprofitably operated?
S. Stelick is very concerned about the Ag Committee coming up with a definition of
what they believe Open Space is and how did the group come to that definition.
E. Carpenter stated that his definition of Open Space includes places like the Bieber
homestead that isn’t actually producing for sale but still is part of the view shed. It
could be 5 acres or 10 acres, as far as for agriculture, money is being spent at local
businesses. He feels that the smaller agriculture areas are helping to keep the local
businesses here so when the larger commercial farmers need supplies, they are there.
J. Osmeloski’s property is only 6 acres but E. Carpenter feels he is still a commercial
business.
S. Stelick pointed out that the farmers are going to be dealing with lay people, novices
in regard to farming and the farmers need to have definitions to help explain. They
need to be able to say “this is Open Space and this is how we have separated that
open space out into different quadrants”. For example, a small hobby farm, a large
commercial farm, or just open space.
C. Anderson brought the conversation back to a discussion of what is a farm and what
does the Ag Committee want agriculture to look like.
D. Barton asked if the purpose of identifying the open space is to protect it? S. Stelick
said that is up to the group. Do they want to protect the land or is it already protected
or make rules about future usage?
C. Anderson said that in September the Planning Department is hoping to have a
discussion with all of the Boards to discuss their definition of Open Space it. There is
a lot of confusion between the Boards. He suggested putting off a definition of Open
Space in favor of defining Agriculture.
S. Stelick pushed for the farmers to at least have an idea of what they think Open
Space is so they can have a stand at the general meeting. If they wait, they may be
influenced at the general meeting in which Open Space is defined. He wants to know
what the Ag Committee’s definition is.
C. Anderson replied that any place that is not developed is Open Space.
E. Carpenter asked what it is waiting for, a commercial enterprise? Vacant land, just
left alone? A farmer? A good example are the woods across from NYSEG, 100 acres of
previously Open Space. C. Anderson responded that the woods were considered Open
Space, even though they are not actually “open”. It is property that can be used – it is
still “Open”. Water could even be considered Open Space.
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D. Barton said he is assuming the Open Space idea goes back to the Town of Dryden
trying to keep it open space, the view, the attraction, etc., all of which are fine but
going back to taxes and so forth, the farmers are not able to stay in production and
thus are unable to maintain the Open Space.
Evan - is that Conservation land or is it a future farm field?
S. Stelick pointed out that he doesn’t know where all the farms are in the Town. The
farmers are the ones that know the lands and have worked it. The five elected officials
(the Town Board) are the ones that are going to make the decisions; they need the
information.
In regard to the Dryden Agriculture Plan Survey, he recommended they fine tune what
they want; make sure there is an end result from all of this; why do we need this? Be
able to defend why the Ag Committee feels they need the specific ends that they
determined. If you don’t think they are needed, then get rid of them. This tool will be
used to help you with your determination on Agriculture Open Space.
The financial side, potential push back, it the Town Board. They will make the
decision regarding a grant. The Ag Committee needs to identify what the return is
going to be on the investment, what benefit will be generated by the Survey? What are
we going to do with the data?
The group discussed the fact that Cornell Cooperative Extension has done several
other surveys for other towns and should be able to give C. Schutt an idea of cost.
E. Carpenter made the point that since they did the last survey, they have something
to work from already.
C. Anderson brought the conversation back to the list and suggested going over it,
adding or subtracting questions and then think about until the next meeting.
S. Stelick reiterated that there is no timer; when it is done, it is done.
C. Anderson recommended calling Ag and Markets to find out when the next grant
cycle is. S. Stelick said it would be nice to have a ball park figure, once you see how
much it is going to cost, we can see what our chances are. It is budget season, if the
Town Board determines it is appropriate as part of the Open Space Plan, they might be
able to allocate some funds.
Budget work starts in July although the Town Board and Finance Committee have
been working on budget issues since January.
The Committee reviewed the document below – Original document is italicized
Dryden Agriculture Plan Questions/Survey
Number of Agricultural Related Enterprises in Dryden
E. Carpenter pointed out that we need to decide what we are going to be calling Ag
enterprise.
S. Stelick responded that some of the things on the list, they (Cornell Cooperative
Extension) might already know what they are going to be looking for. Because they
have already done something like this before, we can do some fine tuning, but he
doesn’t believe there is anything unique in Dryden that hasn’t been touched on
someplace else.
C. Anderson said those are the things he thinks the Ag Committee will work on, areas
that won’t show up or might fall through the cracks. When Cornell goes to do the
research, they are going to pull USDA, the Assessor records and they will mine that
data.
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J. Osmeloski asked if they would be using the census? C. Anderson responded that
they might use the census and the questionnaire from the USDA that farmers fill out
every year…..the small farms won’t necessarily show up.
C. Anderson added that land that hasn’t been farmed in 20 years won’t show up on
the data out there but it is in the memories for the committee. S. Stelick reiterated
that it was necessary for the group to not only identify land via the worksheet but to
also identify why the group included that land/description.
C. Schutt said that we should get from Cooperative Extension is the list that Debbie
(Teeter) brought to the meeting over the summer (Ag Summit). It was a list of the
farms from each of the Towns. It was pretty deficient but if we could get the one for
Dryden, that is something that we could pass around here and start working on. C.
Schutt agreed to get that information and an estimate on the cost of them conducting
a survey before the next meeting
Type of Enterprise
Number with Retail Sales
Number with Wholesale Sales
Combination
Acres in Agricultural production
Farmer –owned land in production
Leased land
Not leased, but used in Agriculture production land that is being used but isn’t
getting leased – for example if someone wanted to keep their field mowed to keep down
the brush, they might not lease it but just ask someone to keep it mowed. This means
that the owners are not getting any kind of tax exemption via ag for their property.
D. Barton has a situation where he harvests the crop on the land and gives (or used to
give) some of the product to the land owner. It is the way farms work, that’s how we
keep them going.
S. Stelick said that where he lives, the owners don’t farm it any longer and he feels
that it would be very helpful information to know what percentage of land owned is
farmed by the owner as opposed to the percentage that is farmed by someone that
does or doesn’t lease it. It might scare some people to realize that most of the land is
being farmed by 4 or 5 farmers.
D. Barton said that he is using more of other people’s land than he is of his own. S.
Stelick said that is legacy stuff that needs to be put down so people that are not
farmers can know that stuff. That is important because if we are talking about saving
or enhancing what we have then we need to know that. A majority of the people don’t.
Most people would drive by a field of corn and think that the owner is a farmer but in
many cases, that is not so.
D. Barton – the other thing that is important is a lot of the land that is not being used,
could be used if a farmer knew about them. And most of the farmers are looking for
land to use and don’t mind putting a bit of work into making the land usable again.
S. Stelick agreed that having that information is valuable but until it is put down, no
one knows.
D. Barton also wants people to realize that of his 179 acres, 120 are woodlands and
that is still agriculture. He harvests them. K. LaMotte wanted to make that point as
well. E. Carpenter added that a lot of people see Open Space as open fields,
somewhere that you can see a woodchuck popping his head out.
C. Anderson stated that they are going to look at Open Space differently as far as the
Planning direction.
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Acres of Crops planted
Types of Crops E. Carpenter asked how minute we need to deal with this
topic? C. Schutt pointed out that it will be nice to know how much corn, soybeans,
vegetables, hops, etc.
Acres Grazed/Hay production E. Carpenter reiterated that there is a lot of
ground out there that people take the hay off to keep the land open.
Timber production
Acres in use/Protection C. Anderson stated that there are forestry
programs out there that a lot of people have signed up for – forest management
programs.
The question became whether protection is the right word… management is better
because the programs are not about protecting what is there but rather encouraging
the growth of beneficial trees.
Acres undercover This refers to land covered by buildings, concrete, etc.
C. Anderson asked about barns that have earned an historical designation/
exemption. There used to be money for folks that preserve their historical buildings.
The money is not there anymore but it might be interesting to see how many buildings
there are. Some of the buildings that are “listed” are under agreement to not make
major changes for 20 years.
Acres of “Not for Profit Land” in Agriculture land belonging to the cemeteries, the
William George Agency, etc.
Total Acres in the Town’s “County Agricultural District”
Acres used for Agriculture in the “County Agricultural District”
Number of Farms in the “County Agricultural District”
Total acres in the Town’s “Rural Agricultural Zoning District”
Acres used for agriculture in the “Rural Agricultural Zoning District”
Number of Farms in the “Rural Agricultural Zoning District”
Animal count and species This might be difficult to get, some of the information might
come from the USDA questionnaire. C. Schutt said he would see what he can find out
from the Cooperative Extension.
Gross Agricultural Production /Sales in the Town
Total Agricultural fair market Property Value, Assessed Value
Buildings
Land
Equipment Value
Fair market property value might be hard to come up with. It will be easy to get the
assessed value of the land but how do you come up with a value for equipment? C.
Anderson pointed out this can be a survey question, this information will have to come
from the farmer. D. Barton asked what equipment values have to do with the Open
Space? E. Carpenter suggested it was a good question in terms of defining how much
and what the farmers have invested in but as far as Open Space, how does it relate?
C. Anderson and C. Schutt asked E. Carpenter to not think in terms of Open Space,
instead look at it in terms of agriculture and ag protection. It will come around to
support the Open Space.
Total Property Taxes paid by Agricultural Enterprises
Town Taxes
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County Taxes
School Taxes
Library Taxes (our Town doesn’t have this tax)
Solid Waste Taxes
Emergency Services Taxes
Number employed in Agriculture S. Stelick encouraged the Committee to be cautious
about getting too broad; what support services need to be counted? Veterinary
services, milk truck drivers, etc? C. Anderson doesn’t think it will be that hard to get
some of this information. Once we have identified which enterprises we are interested
in and we have identified the farms, we can call the farmers and do a quick survey.
Owners
Full Time
Part Time
Seasonal
Immigrant workers?
Number of Farms enrolled in a State/ Federal Conservation Program
Total Acres in a Conservation Program
Type of Program
Length of Program
Number of times a Program has been renewed
E. Carpenter said that this information should be easy to get but questioned the value
of the information. C. Schutt responded the reason/ value is based on the fact that
there are a lot of people in this town that don’t realize all that farmers are already
doing for conservation, how much they are already doing to protect their lands. D.
Barton pointed out that the farmers have to take care of the land, it is their livelihood.
C. Schutt reiterated that folks don’t know that and C. Anderson added that some
probably think the farmers are holding and defending their land so they can sell it
someday. The general feeling of the group was that farmers cannot and are not
thinking of selling for development, they simply want to be able to use their land in a
productive manner. There are a lot of farmers out there that have enrolled in
conservation programs that guide them for 10, 15, 20 years.
The group discussed the fact that UNAs, CEAs and volunteer conservation programs
overlap and thus some of the frustration by farmers who already participate in
conservation efforts with their land.
Timber Conservation Programs E. Carpenter – is this a repeat of the earlier section?
Should they be lumped together?
He would like to know how much land in Dryden is State owned versus private forests.
C. Anderson suggested that the group take home the list and think about and then
also consider a definition of agriculture and farming.
S.Stelick asked if C. Schutt could ask if someone from the Cooperative Extension
could come to a meeting? It will help direct the group.
There being no further business, J. Osmeloski moved to adjourn at 9:10PM. The
motion was seconded by D. Barton.
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Respectfully Submitted,
Erin A. Bieber
Deputy Town Clerk