HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-05-08Page 1 of 8
Dryden Agriculture Advisory Commission
Town of Dryden
May 8, 2013
Members Present: Evan Carpenter (Chair), Kim LaMotte, Joe Osmeloski (late),
Douglas Barton, and Steve Stuttle
Staff Present: Mary Ann Sumner (Supervisor) and Dan Kwasnowski (Town Planner)
Town Board Liaison: Jason Leifer
Planning Board Liaison: Craig Anderson
Conservation Board Liaison: Craig Schutt
Guests: Nancy Munkenbeck
Meeting was called to order at 7:38 by Chairman Carpenter
1. Review and approval of the minutes from April 10, 2013.
C. Anderson requested clarification regarding the discussion about putting up
fences across trials. It is not illegal to fence the trail but the issues a property
owner could face, including liability for injuries sustained if someone runs into the
fence, encourage caution when protecting personal property. If a person
trespasses on your property and gets hurt, they may still be able to sue the land
owner. Putting a fence up across an established trail could easily lead to
problems.
D Barton moved to accept the minutes with the recommended changes. K. LaMotte
seconded the motion, all approved. S. Stuttle abstained.
2. Craig Schutt – The Conservation Board passed a resolution supporting the
Agriculture Advisory Commission’s recommendation that the Town Board continue to
consider applying for the Agriculture Farmland Protection grant. The wording was
different but it is the same idea.
E. Carpenter ensured that everyone had a copy of the information regarding the
grant. While the Commission members were looking over the grant information, C.
Schutt stated that the Conservation Board has discussed the grant and has considered
how the money can be used. C. Schutt has spoken with Mike Smith from the Town of
Ithaca; he said that the grant paid for his time. It was easy (he kept a spread sheet with
his time) to keep track of the time and ag and markets reimbursed them. Mr. Smith also
said the grant was quite easy to get and the program is great to work with.
D. Kwasnowski stated that “we can definitely look into it” but then asked what the
Agriculture Advisory Commission would work on while waiting for the grant? Even
though it is open enrollment, it is not open funding. It has a pretty big turn around, 6-12
months. Every time they (Planning Department) have worked with Ag and Markets, it
has taken at least 10 months to get the contract after they had gotten the award.
E. Carpenter said any money that is spent prior to getting the contract, they cannot
get back.
C Schutt said that once you get a contract, we could probably get started. N.
Munkenbeck pointed out that it has been discussed for 4 years and maybe it is time to
actually apply. D Barton added that if they applied a year from now, it would take two
years before they got the grant. D. Kwasnowski asked “what if they were done before
the grant arrived?” The general consensus was that the work is never done and will
always be on-going. M. Sumner said that there is certainly groundwork to do and the
Commission could use the time to plan how they want to develop the Agriculture Open
Space Plan.
Supervisor Sumner believes that open space is asset to the Town and to the
residents, for at least the following three reasons: agriculture, recreation, and
conservation.
D. Kwasnowski stated that the Comprehensive Plan is based on Open Space.
Supervisor Sumner said that after the Comprehensive Plan was in place, they started
working on a Recreation Master plan. The Planning Department and Conservation
Board began to take on the Open Space Plan. They began to see how the three areas
overlapped (Recreation, Conservation and Agriculture). Once we begin to look at the
three parts as being part of a whole, it starts to make sense.
Some open space will be for recreation with more parks and trails that are separate
from farm land. She is not talking about existing farms or generations old farms or
possibly new farms but largely about the soil and the terrain and the areas we know are
irreplaceable. We don’t want to encourage development that will interfere with that land.
It is really important to commit that to paper and she is really looking forward to this
process. She is about to ask the Town Board to be more specific in what they are
asking each board to do as part of this open space plan. But that should not take all of
the Ag Commissions time, there are things that they want to look into and advise the
Town Board on as well. She thinks the Town Board can be more specific about where
we envision this plan going and what this committee’s role in that plan is. She is hoping
that based on what she hears tonight that she can direct the Town Board to come back
with some better direction for this task.
D. Kwasnowski – the other piece to that (that’s going to be the motive, the why
are we doing this) but more pragmatic piece is that in our recently passed zoning and
subdivision law includes amenity zoning. It is a tool that you can use if you have
planning (like an open space plan or a farmland protection plan), then you can say
“look, we know that your business or product is going to have an impact on our
community and we can account for that.” Amenity zoning is a system that is set up
where you say “if you are going to locate in this area, we know you are going to have
such and such an impact and you have to fulfill this part of the town plan”. We can’t just
make it up as we go along, it has to be part of a plan. So the pragmatic part of this is,
we know what we want to do. We have a strategic plan to get there. If the business
doesn’t have an impact on the Town then they obviously don’t have to provide
amenities. The Planning Board or Town Board or Supervisor can then say that they
need to protect a piece of adjacent land or provide money for a park.
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N. Munkenbeck – What is the plan to which he is referring? The comprehensive
plan at this point or any town legislation that has “plan” in it. Currently we have the
Comprehensive Plan (D. Kwasnowski added “and the Recreation Master Plan”) and
when the Open Space Plan exists and has been accepted (approved by the Town
Board) then that can also be applied.
N. Munkenbeck continued with “In the Conservation Board, the way I understood
the explanation of the Open Space Plan, was that it was going to be basically a plan of
how to plan for things that would not be a plan for ultimat e use; it would be a plan for
how to question ultimate use.”
D. Kwasnowski – it will be strategic planning, so it will be more brief than your old
fashion comprehensive plan and it will have specific objectives and targets that we want
to accomplish, within a certain period of time. Let’s say 5-10 years.
D. Kwasnowski is happy with the Town’s Comprehensive Plan; it is fairly brief,
not as brief as he would have it but it is pretty brief. N. Munkenbeck responded with “but
a Comprehensive Plan is a plan for how you see the community developing in the
future. And the Open Space Plan, as it was explained earlier, was not going to be that
but how to address questions to arrive at a new comprehensive plan. Are you now
saying that in fact, this open Space Plan will actually define what we want to do instead
of question what we want to do?”
D. Kwasnowski responded that it would be some of both but mostly defining what
you want to do. D. Kwasnowski had copies of a draft of the Open Space Plan that he
offered to share with the group. It has been stripped down and is fairly open ended but it
gives you at least the structure that the plan would look like. (this copy was created by
a former intern named Megan who came up with the Agriculture, Conservation and
Recreation scheme). What the plan will include, at least the Agriculture section, is up to
“you guys” – the AAC.
N. Munkenbeck made the comment that the structure is there but what is going
to affect everyone is the pillars. D. Kwasnowski agreed.
D. Kwasnowski is hoping to have 3-5 Goals with more objectives underneath.
Right now the Comprehensive Plan only has 1 goal and 3 objectives for Agriculture.
N. Munkenbeck – “If the farm community has an idea of how they would like to
see the town proceed so that farming will be enable and enhanced and promoted for
future generation then that is what you want in the Open Space Plan?”
D. Kwasnowski responded “right” but Supervisor Sumner feels that might be
much more than they are looking for in the Open Space Plan.
D. Kwasnowski feels we can identify the issues in the plan and set a possible
path forward, and then revisit the plan and say, that one didn’t work, that one didn’t
come to fruition but this one did work. It becomes a guide to point the Boards toward
solving part of the plan.
C. Anderson made the point that while the Ag Commission had D. Kwasnowski
and the Supervisor at the meeting, they should be asking some questions. At the last
meeting they had a significant number of points and que stions and this meeting is their
chance to get them answered.
Supervisor Sumner said it is important to remember that your accountable to the
Town Board. We communicate through Dan, a lot. Dan directs things like the Open
Space Plan but at least in name, the Town Board directs Dan. I t’s not entirely that the
Planning Department wants this plan, it’s that the Town wants this plan. Any place
where you saw Planning Department in the minutes (last month) you might think, Town.
D. Kwasnowski - Conservation Board- did an inventory which allowed them to
elevate their status from a Conservation Advisory Council to a Conservation Board. This
is based on State law. But the State law also says that Town’s should develop an open
space plan, going so far as to target parcels or areas that you wa nt to protect. Either
purchase or put an easement on it.
In the storm water program, there was a call for a buffer law and he had
assumed it had been…. It had been described to me that this was something the
Conservation Board was ready to move forward on. They started working on the Storm
Water buffer laws and they got quite a ways but then the Conservation Board started to
ask “is this the only way to do this?” to which he said no.
They had a long discussion about “shouldn’t we have some kind of plan first so
we can discuss this as an option to purchase easements or planting trees?” D.
Kwasnowski agreed that the plan was a good idea because they were getting frustrated
and dispirited trying to get this law out there. One of the problems was the 100 foot
setback. That was one of the reasons why they decided to put it in the context of an
Open Space Plan.
That is something in the conservation system that will be looked at; what benefits
does a buffer offer, how will agriculture be affected, how would ag be exempted, how
does it protect wetlands, all these different things and how can you achieve it without a
law? What are the alternatives to get there?
This was when Megan was brought in and together they came up with a draft
plan which includes the three system thing because it seemed apparent that we have
Conservation issues (natural areas, wetland, steep slopes, flood plains, Fall Creek, Six
Mile Creek, etc.), and then we have Agricultural concerns. We have a really good
farmland protection plan, the bare bones, these are the farms, this how many acres we
want to protect, this is how much it is going to cost. That is how we got a grant for Lew-
Lin, Jerry Dell and WideAwake was based on that plan. If we didn’t have that in the
comp plan, we would not have gotten the grant. It wouldn’t have been there.
Recreation Department – we had a whole section on trails that got cut from the
Comprehensive Plan right before it was adopted. He is not sure why but they had a
trails committee and there was a recognition in the Comp plan that the town, based
upon national standards, or even state wide standards, is woefully inadequate in terms
of town owned park land. Based on the number of people in the town we don’t have
enough park land to accommodate their needs.
That is where we got with the three system approach. What that system is, and
the key is to have a systematic approach, we should be clear about what we want to
achieve, this is how we want to get there so that it is systematic and transparent. People
don’t have to understand the theory behind open space. From last month, “why is
agricultural land considered open space?”, it’s not and he thinks that is a misnomer and
it should be open place – it has history, people have worked there, lived there, raised
their kids there, have their animals there. It is not just a blank open space that you can
do whatever you want on it, it is somebody’s living.
Page 5 of 8
Define agriculture – the State and Ag and Markets has accepted agriculture as
an open space resource. What we should dwell on is “what do you want to do, what do
you want to spend the next 5 years, the next 10 years, planning. And how will you know
if you are being successful?
D. Kwasnowski thinks we have a strong Agricultural community based on the
ease with which farm land is sold or leased.
C. Anderson asked about the virtual farm site and who is going to maintain it.
Joshua Bogdan (the Dryden Town GIS Technician) is going to be the one to update the
site. The farmers can just email him with updates.
The Commission and guests all agreed that we need to promote the website.
E. Carpenter asked whether the town having a booth at dairy day? Supervisor
Sumner indicated that the Town Board was going to discuss it.
E. Carpenter clarified that what D. Kwasnowski and the Town Board want is a
definition of what is agricultural land, what is farm land, and what is open space that we
see as being beneficial to agriculture. That is where we became a little overwhelmed
with the amount of time it was going to take to identify that “this” is farmland, “this” is
brush and “this” is farmable land or the owner has no intention of it ever being farmed
again.
E. Carpenter pointed out that just in his life, he has seen prime, profitable
farmland neglected until it turned to brush to trees - is that prime land or prime
development and do we want to identify them? There are areas that were prime
farmland that are now prime development land. How many parcels are there around
town? Supervisor Sumner indicated that was exactly what they wanted to find out.
E. Carpenter - The grant from AG and Markets can help the Agriculture Advisory
Board complete an inventory of what is out there. If the Commission decided to focus on
soil types, he has old 1940s maps which show areas as swamps that are now
productive soils.
Supervisor Sumner said that the DEC is updating wetland maps.
D. Kwasnowski asked what the Commission is hoping to get out of the inventory?
N. Munkenbeck responded “identification of possibly good ag lands, even those
growing up to brush could still possibly be good ag lands.”
E. Carpenter used the Bieber farm as an example of a hobby farm; even though
it is not farmed, it is still open space and that ought to be counted as open farm land. It
is not going to be developed for housing nor do the owners intend that it ever be used
that way.
C. Anderson believes the inventory will help identify the land is being farmed that
is more suitable for development and the farmland that is close to infrastructure that
might be more suitable for development.
N. Munkenbeck brought up the 100 acres by B&B Farms that used to be
farmland. She remembers that people seemed to want to see that area developed more
and it is zoned for development. Is that where the planning department wants more
housing because busses are going to be able to get there and they can tie into the
sewer and water districts?
C. Anderson pointed out that if the Commission was able to identify soil types
then as parcels become available, a farmer might be interested in it. Having a g ood
inventory will benefit the town and the farmers.
D. Kwasnowski suggested that instead of looking at the entirety, look at the areas
that the board feels are most important for agriculture. Pick and choose what areas you
work on – for example, it doesn’t make much sense to analyze E. Carpenter’s farm if he
is able to get an easement on it.
C. Anderson suggested looking at the County Ag District. He pointed out the ag
district is much greater than what is being farmed.
N. Munkenbeck believes that there has to be 4 areas or layers consisting of soil
types, agricultural districts, agricultural exemptions and actual use.
D. Kwasnowski - Rural Agriculture Zoning districts could be split into several
smaller districts to accommodate a greater number of farm types. N. Munkenbeck
wondered what the benefits are of being in an Agriculture Zoning district? E. Carpenter
pointed out that agriculture is permitted in any district. D. Barton said that there were
several options that are available in an agricultural district that are not permitted in other
districts. C. Anderson interjected that the farmers were talking about County Districts. N.
Munkenbeck said she is wondering about Town Zoning. She asked how the AAC can
ensure that farming continues in this town?
E. Carpenter added that a lot of the land in the Town that is ag usable is not
necessarily designed for large dairies. There is a lot of property that is ideal for all kinds
of farms, like a U-Pick Apple Orchard. Hops, vineyards, blueberry, etc. W hat are the
other types of farms that are going to be or could be here now. E. Carpenter feels we
need to look at all of the parcels.
N. Munkenbeck asked about the fact that many of the local farms that are
protected are using almost 50% more land in rentals. So what about that land?
N. Munkenbeck asked whether the goal was to have the committee identify Ag
lands or….
D. Kwasnowski said that he and Josh Bogdan (GIS technician) will work on
putting together a program that the Commission members can take home and play with.
It will permit them to add layers and zoom in and out to help identify. He said that he
would need to know more on soil types. He can display prime farm land easily.
N. Munkenbeck – indicated that she does not know what the soil types are and
how to determine them.
D. Kwasnowski – said that the information is in the GIS data; definitions, etc are
included. He asked if the Commission wanted to jump into the inventory? He can come
next meeting with J. Bogdan to demonstrate the program they propose the AAC use.
Page 7 of 8
N. Munkenbeck asked if the members would be given time to think on their own
about things they think would promote agriculture?
D. Kwasnowski responded that she could think about it as much as she wants to.
D. Barton pointed out that if the Commission bases their decisions on the quality
or value of the land, then his is going to be sub-marginal despite the fact that they have
grown crops and farmed there for 175 years. Supervisor Sumner indicated that the
Commission will get to help define the properties.
D. Barton – “We talk about open land, farm land or otherwise, there’s a reason
why around in this area there is so much open farm land because it has been a
livelihood. It’s not something we did to attract other people; it is someth ing we do to
survive.”
Supervisor Sumner asked about the land along Etna road that used to be prime
farm land. Should we identify that land in the Agriculture inventory?
C. Anderson asked if the members of the Commission were familiar with the
Town’s new zoning in the rural ag zoning. It will help the Commission members
understand what is allowable.
D. Kwasnowski – If we redefine that zone, if your property was zoned rural ag,
then you could put tractor sales in there and there would not be any requirement for the
Conservation Subdivision which doesn’t limit your development, it just guides, protecting
the open space resources that are there. If we refine that rural ag district, then we would
have to work with land owners like you and say listen, we wou ld like to change you from
conservation to ag for these reasons, but it is going to have rural ag design guidelines
that will have to be followed if they had a subdivision of over a certain number of lots.
D. Kwasnowski - Some of the areas that are in the conservation districts are
there to protect the ag land – to provide a buffer between the village and farm fields.
Going back to the question earlier about the benefit of being in an Agriculture district in
the Town; not much because it is not very well defined. He said that the AAC has the
charge of redefining the zoning.
He pointed to Johnson road which he thinks is a good place to have a pseudo
agricultural commercial park for farming. A place specifically targeted to support
ag/commercial businesses. Already there is a yogurt factory and Cortland Produce.
N. Munkenbeck returned to the questionnaire included with Planning for
Agriculture in New York and the question regarding Town support in preventing
trespassing. That led to a discussion regarding designated hunters (people that have
permission to hunt the land and help keep trespassers off the land).
C. Anderson asked if anyone had challenged the reassessment of their property.
D. Barton had and he got his assessment reduced. C. Anderson received a letter in
reply that stated that his request was denied because his assessment is due to “the
increase in the ag ceiling values determined by New York State.” He said he brought it
up because there is no ag ceiling value at the State level. He has talked to Ag and
Markets about it. NYS does not determine ag value or ceiling. He said his assessment
was done on the value of the property. Ag assessment is determined by the product
produced on the land, not the actual value of the property. As of 4 PM this af ternoon,
Tompkins County Assessment had not yet returned a call to Ag and Markets regarding
this issue.
5. E. Carpenter moved onto the point of business:
Choosing a Vice Chair was put off until next meeting since no one was interested
volunteering this meeting.
There being no further business, D. Barton made a motion to adjourn. J. Osmeloski
seconded the motion. The meeting was adjourned at 9:05 PM.
Respectfully submitted,
Erin A. Bieber
Deputy Town Clerk