HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-07-26Planning Board
July 26, 2018
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Planning Board
July 26, 2018
Present: Martin Moseley (Chair), Craig Anderson, Tom Hatfield, Joseph Wilson, David
Weinstein, John Kiefer, and James Skaley (Alternate)
Absent: Martin Hatch
Town Staff: Ray Burger, Planning Director
Liaisons: Alice Green, Town Board
Peter Davies, Conservation Board
Chair Moseley called the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m.
Review and Approval of minutes from June 28, 2018:
Clarification of Resolution #11 - intent was to waive further site plan review.
T. Hatfield moved to approve the minutes as amended per discussion. D.
Weinstein seconded, the motion was unanimously approved.
Public Comment regarding items not on the agenda:
Shirley Lyon:
Presented “Mineah Road Project” by Richard Wawak stating he was building 3
cottages with 2 bedrooms and a loft. Occupancy would be 6-8 people. When
Mr. Wawak spoke with the Health Department, the loft was a bedroom, which
would bring the total occupancy to 9-12 people. The Health Department ad-
vised Mrs. Lyon there was going to be continual building at Mineah Road. Mr.
Wawak’s letter to Mr. Sprout did advise that there could be additional building.
May decide to divide lot into two equal frontage using existing crossings. Mr.
Moseley stated in the last meeting that we could not prove intent but now in-
tent is there and there is nothing we can do about it. When she called NYS she
was told our Comprehensive Plan is inconsistent with zoning in this area. We
have 20% slopes and he went to a 25% slope area and is now building in his
well site. He has reshaped it all before he has gotten Mr. Ezell back there to
look at it. She was also advised that if the code officer is uncomfortable with
making this inconsistency, being a legal question between the Comprehensive
Plan and our zoning regulations, he has a right to send it back to the Planning
Board for further review. She has called Kevin Ezell and asked him to bring it
back into the Planning Board. He refused and is going to issue the building
permit. Her options are going to the Zoning Board of Appeals and then Article
78. She would like the Planning Board to request that Mr. Burger ask Mr.
Ezell to reconsider his decision before he even finishes the application. Mr.
Wawak does not have any vested rights, plan was adopted in 2012 and he pur-
chased his land 4-5 years after that.
Planning Board
July 26, 2018
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The intersection study has come back but has not yet been analyzed. She is
concerned deforesting and taking away the pools will cause erosion and more
water to come down and ultimately end up on Route 13. Our comprehensive
plan states that the bedrock going down this deep usually has a minimal water
flow and the water quality is poor. Mr. Wawak is experiencing trouble with
chlorides in his water and we already have some contamination of some wells.
He has fractured it 3 times and he got a gallon and a half. She spoke with him
today about his intentions and he advised that as soon as he gets the water he
will build.
Ray Burger will obtain the traffic data from NYS DOT and will see if DOT have
it analyzed by someone and returned to the Town. Shirley Lyon stated she
does not want to have to take it to the Zoning Board of Appeals and then an Ar-
ticle 78, as she doesn’t feel that would be beneficial to anyone here.
Discussion ensued regarding size of lot and slope. J. Skaley stated that
according to town law, if the zoning is inconsistent with the Comprehensive
Plan then zoning needs to be revised. Spot zoning was discussed and M. Mose-
ley asked R. Burger to have a discussion with the town attorney with regards to
procedures if code official is not comfortable, and what our options are.
S. Lyon stated they have been denied their right to conservation. R. Burger
stated there was no formal proposal to the town board for a re-zoning to con-
servation of that parcel.
D. Weinstein stated that we had never gotten a clear message from the Mineah
Road citizens, through you, that you wanted conservation. We have a petition
from some sub-section of the people but it wasn’t, in his estimation, universally
agreed that that’s what the change was that they wanted to make. S. Lyon
stated they had amended the original petition, all signed it and sent it back in.
D. Weinstein- Most of the citizens of Mineah Road are requesting that the zon-
ing be changed to conservation. M. Moseley advised her it would need to be
presented to the town board, who would then have to give us a charge to move
forward.
121 Sweetland Road
Sketch Plan Review
Tammi Young/Steve Card would like to put a second home on a 3-acre
lot. Board members reviewed D. Sprout’s memo.
• M. Moseley confirmed with R. Burger that 239 is not applicable in this
scenario. Two dwellings will utilize the same well and septic. She is look-
ing to have a 2nd driveway.
• D. Weinstein – New driveway is 30’ wide at road cut? That is typical for
most driveway entrances. C. Anderson confirmed. He questioned the
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map of the property and wetland area and asked if they would be run-
ning new water line through wetland in rear of property? They are not
going into that area at all.
• C. Anderson – Is it possible to put a turn-around in their driveway, due
to the dip in the road and safety issues? They would have an area to turn
around in so they are not backing into the roadway.
• J. Wilson – What is the age and condition of the mobile home you are
bringing in? It is a 1990, but everything has been updated on it. New
windows, doors, furnace, hot water tank.
• J. Wilson- Fuel? Propane. Insulation – HUD approved, full belly wrap, no
holes or issues – inspected prior to purchase.
T. Hatfield made a motion to waive further site plan review, seconded by J.
Wilson, unanimously approved.
M. Moseley appointed Jim Skaley as a voting member due to the absence of
Martin Hatch.
RESOLUTION #15: Sketch Plan Approval
121 Sweetland Road
D. Weinstein made the following resolution:
RESOLVED, that this Board hereby approves the sketch plan for a second
home to be placed on the property at 121 Sweetland Road, with no conditions.
Seconded by T. Hatfield and unanimously approved.
Grass Masters Landscaping
2025 Dryden Road Sketch Plan Conference
Grass Maters explained that they currently run a full-service landscape busi-
ness out of 1808 Dryden Road, including retail sales of stone and landscape
products. They feel the property at 2025 would be a good fit to expand both
the landscaping and retail aspects of their business.
• T. Hatfield verified with Grass Masters - they would be moving their
business to the 2025 Dryden Road location in place of the 1808 Dryden
Road location.
• D. Weinstein – Discussed the Class A stream that cuts through the NE
portion of the property and County’s recommendation for at least a 50’
buffer around where nothing is done within the 50’ buffer (no material
storage, leave it unaltered/used). This is a condition.
• J. Wilson – Looking at the short environmental assessment form pre-
pared by the planning department and #9 asks if the proposed action
meet or exceed state energy code requirements and the answer is no.
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Why and what needs to be done to meet the state energy code require-
ments? Property is grandfathered, as it was built in 1993
• R. Burger – 5 areas in the information provided by the applicant that he
would suggest being changed and agreed upon with the applicant.
• D. Weinstein -What would be required to bring the building up to cur-
rent energy code and how expensive/practical it would be? Grass Mas-
ters and R. Burger could not give an answer to that question. They
would like to reduce energy cost and would make improvements in the fu-
ture as finances would allow. LED light bulbs, insulation, and making the
building as energy efficient as possible. D. Weinstein inquired as to the
nature of the building and was advised it is a slab on grade, steel rein-
forced pole barn style structure that is 50% warehouse and 50% insu-
lated offices/shop space. D. Sprout’s memo (reports/memos are always
very helpful – Thank you again), listed multiple areas where there are
variations between what is required by the site plan review checklist and
what was provided. Why shouldn’t all those discrepancies be addressed
before we decide? That is what we are here to do, to get clarity on what
needs to be done.
• C. Anderson- Any salt storage? No.
• Handicapped entrance? There will be two handicapped entrances.
• Dumpster –We do not believe we will be putting a dumpster on this site,
as we already have one at our present location. We take any recycling
items down to the Recycling Center. If at some point in the future we
decide to bring in a dumpster we agree to either build an enclosure or put
vegetation around it to screen it from the neighbors.
• D. Weinstein – condition will be added that if a dumpster is put on site it
must be screened from the neighbors. R. Burger reviewed the screening
requirements and the buffer requirement.
7:38 Martin Hatch arrived
• M. Moseley addressed the zone (mixed use commercial) there is a
requirement for a 20’ buffer, regardless if there is a dumpster or not. To
be complied with the minimal standards required by zoning.
• T. Hatfield inquired about lighting. We may add some more lighting in the
future but it would not be excessive.
• D. Weinstein asked if existing lighting on building is pointing down?
Yes. When we put in the sign and sign light we will spec that out to
whatever the requirements are. We will be using LEDs and will keep the
light from shining onto Route 13 and becoming a traffic hazard.
• J. Wilson What is the final decision about screening? D. Weinstein
advised we decided that they will follow our code and that was
acceptable. J. Wilson inquired how that would be enforced or checked
on and T. Hatfield responded that it would need to be in compliance
before a C.O. would be issued.
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July 26, 2018
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• J. Kiefer inquired if the business was open to the public after dark?
Yes, due to time change and early evening being dark. There is an
existing light on the building that will light up the parking lot.
• D. Weinstein – Samples can be put out by the road. Discussion took
place regarding how Grass Masters will get to the pallet storage area.
• Hours of operation? M-F 8 a.m.-6 p.m., Sat 9 a.m.-3 p.m., Sun 9 a.m.-3
p.m. Sunday hours are only if the business takes off enough to warrant
being open on Sundays.
• M. Moseley questioned R. Burger;
o Is the SEQR modifying the building? No.
o It’s not a new use, a change in use? Yes.
o Modifying some of the existing area but they are also proposing a
basic slip to comply with storm water regulations as approved by
the storm water management officer, correct? Yes
o What triggered SEQR in this scenario? Change of use, due to
added retail exposure. The change of use is considered a type
what action? Unlisted.
The only modification being done to the building is a garage door entry.
D. Weinstein suggested they go through SEQR:
o Regarding archaeological sensitive area – doesn’t apply.
o Marked that they have access to public water supply and public
wastewater, that can’t be right. R. Burger – existing private well
and septic.
R. Burger recommended going through and suggesting corrections to the Short
EAF questions. I would start with #5. M. Moseley – we need to start with #1
on the applicant’s version:
1) No.
5) Yes.
5b) Yes.
10) Yes.
11) Yes.
13a) Yes (A stream).
13b) No; eliminate wording trib as it doesn’t come into play
14) should be checked: Agricultural/grasslands; Early
mid-successional; and Suburban
17) Yes – water flow will remain as is.
17a) No.
17b) No
.
T. Hatfield made motion for no further sketch plan review, C. Anderson
seconded. Unanimously approved.
Planning Board
July 26, 2018
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M. Moseley- Part 2 Impact Assessment all negative answers. Part 3 -
Determination of significance, agreed to check 2nd box proposed action will not
result in any significant adverse environmental impacts.
RESOLUTION #16 NEG SEQR DEC
2025 Dryden Road
M. Hatch offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
A. The proposed action involves site plan review and moving of a landscape
business including retail sales of mulches, gravel, stone and other items
with regards to landscaping.
B. The proposed action is an Unlisted Action for which the Planning Board
of the Town of Dryden is the lead agency for the purpose of
uncoordinated environmental review.
C. The Planning Board of the Town of Dryden, in performing the lead agency
function for its independent and uncoordinated environmental review in
accordance with Article 8 of the New York State Environmental
Conservation Law – the State Environmental Quality Review Act
“(SEQR)”, (i) thoroughly reviewed the short Environmental Assessment
Form, Part 1, and any and all other documents prepared and submitted
with respect to this proposed action and its environmental review,(ii)
thoroughly analyzed the potential relevant areas of environmental
concern to determine if the proposed action may have a significant
adverse impact on the environment;
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED AS FOLLOWS:
1) The Planning Board of the Town of Dryden, based upon(i) its thorough
review of the short EAF, Part 1, and all other documents prepared and
submitted with respect to this proposed action and its environmental
review, (ii) its thorough review of the potential relevant areas of
environmental concern to determine if the proposed action may have a
significant adverse impact on the environment in accordance with SEQR
for the above-referenced proposed action, and
2) M. Moseley is hereby authorized and directed to complete and sign as
required the determination of significance, confirming the foregoing
Negative Declaration.
David Weinstein seconded the motion which was unanimously approved.
M. Hatch was reappointed and J. Skaley no longer has voting authority.
Grass Masters Landscaping
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July 26, 2018
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2025 Dryden Road Site Plan Review
M. Moseley presented possible conditions for review:
1) 50’ buffer along class A stream. Measurement of distance would be
from the thread of the stream. No buildings or impervious are to be placed in
this buffer area.
2) If a dumpster or similar structure is provided, acceptable screening
shall be provided consistent with the commercial guidelines
3) Existing buffer on the South side shall be maintained as the buffer
4) Exterior lighting – Darstag compliant, full cut off lighting on the
signage and the exterior lighting.
5) Handicapped parking and bathroom(s) -will be compliant with existing
code.
RESOLUTION #17 – 2025 Dryden Road Site Plan Review
T. Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED the Town of Dryden Planning Board hereby approves the site plan
provided by Grass Masters subject to stated conditions.
Seconded by M. Hatch, approved unanimously.
Planning Department Update –
802 Dryden Road
Site Plan Approval by this Board last year, we’ve seen a couple of updates that
have influenced the outside profiles of the buildings and we now have an
update to some of the floor plans inside. We also have the new owner of the
property here, Matt Durbin, who will be executing this project.
D Weinstein- Any changes were made to the original, approved plan?
Two-bedroom units on the first floor: No added bedrooms, have not changed the
footprint but what we have done is opened up the two-bedroom units. We moved
the kitchens to the rear of the buildings, which creates a true open living/dining
area. This allowed us to push the bathrooms out of the kitchen to the living
space, which resulted in a full-sized pantry being added to the kitchen area. A
coat closet has been installed under the stairs.
Four-bedroom units: We did the same thing. We pushed the kitchen to the rear of
the unit, added a pantry, and were able to add washer and dryer space and
storage where the water heater is located
Two-bedroom units – wanted to capture more of the master bath feel for our
residents with children. We have added a connecting bathroom, which really
opens it up, you get to keep your full tub and shower, but now you get a dual
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vanity. We made this change to two of the units (one unit per building) we were
able to put in two water closets and a Jack and Jill bath.
Three-bedroom units- there was an open “dead” space 8X9 room that gave
access to the balcony. What we find in our three-bedrooms a lot of times is that
people still want a second-floor master. By putting a master bathroom in the
“dead” space you are still connected to the balcony. Additional storage provided
by a linen closet. No external changes were made.
All the same changes were made for all six buildings. Although building A does
not have the doors to the back patios because these are the ones that face
Dryden Road. All the buildings that are on the interior will have a door back by
the kitchen that leads to the back patio.
M. Hatch questions and answers:
1) You talked a lot about families. Could you explain how the dynamics fit
together with the notion of family residents that curate the property in ways
that one can imagine that renters might not have the same responsibilities or
feeling of obligation? We budget for turnover expenses i.e., painting, flooring.
Our ideal tenant is one that is long term.
2) What are the economics that are pushing this to be strictly rentals vs.
rent-to-own or condos? We are not home builders, we like to build rental
properties. Design wise and building code wise it is a different animal. Not to
say that that’s not an option. A development of this size of 42 units, to condo out
would be high price units for the market. This would price a lot of folks out of the
market. You’d be competing with the single-family home buyer; that’s not who
we are targeting. M. Hatch stated this information is very helpful for us to hear
these things. There are places, like in Lansing, that have made the transition
and are condominium like it’s curious to me as a planning person.
3) What are the mechanisms whereby one could get a reliable, long-term
renter/family into a place? And how does one market it, price it, and __________
that one does not get close to Cornell’s campus, in a four-bedroom place, a
large number of students? Multiple things, I don’t set the price, the market sets
the price in terms of supply and demand. These are market rate and we will
charge what the market bears for the units. We have specifically designed
amenities that target those families in terms of a playground, patio, dog parks,
quiet hamlet, near The Plantations. We don’t have a lot of the amenities that are
geared more towards student rentals. No large community place where beer
pong is being played. We don’t have those type of amenities. That’s what you’re
really marketing.
J. Skaley -Charlie Connor no longer has anything to do with this? We are
partnering with Charlie and his team.
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D. Weinstein – One of the things that Charlie stressed was his strong desire to
get a mixture of families and young professionals. One of the things that
scares me about a switch of ownership is that you may not have the same
dedication to that. If you’re faced with a family here and 4 students that both
want to be in that 4-bedroom, I want to know that you are going to lean
towards the family. We are both aligned on that. Students treat apartments
differently that families treat apartments. When you have longer term you have
a different mindset. Charlie and I share that sentiment or we wouldn’t have
found a way to work together to bring this project to fruition.
Review of Trinitas townhome project in Varna
959 Dryden Road
Trinitas representatives: Kimberly Hansen and Evan Bryant. Questions
answered by Kimberly Hansen unless otherwise noted.
M. Moseley – This has been presented to the Town Board? Not the exact
presentation, but yes.
The Town Board has requested input from the Planning Board is my
understanding. Yes, I think I’ve heard from some of you before but we are
excited to get some more feedback tonight. I’m not reinventing the wheel with this
presentation. It’s largely taken from both the intro and the sketch plan that we
did. Still work in progress and there will probably be some significant revisions
in August. We can keep that in mind as we discuss it.
We are requesting approval for a Special Use Permit from the Town Board for site
development of this property along Route 366 in the Hamlet of Varna. Kimberly
provided a copy of the site plan they had already submitted and reminded the
Planning Board that it is work in progress and they can expect significant
changes. Right now, there are 220 units of townhomes with a mix of 1-4-
bedroom units, a clubhouse with luxury amenities, pedestrian access to the
Varna trail, a playground along Varna trail, there is currently 800 sq. feet of
commercial space, we are doubling that. There will be a village feel. It is
currently 13.17 units per acre. We are seeking the redevelopment and green
development bonus.
These were the variances requested on this site plan, it will be reduced in the
future:
• We have 25% reduction in parking offset by our shuttles
• 9% reduction in green space, reduced rear-yard setback for one building,
the next site plan does fix that
• Perimeter buffer setback to remove 15’ offset by the buffer by additional
landscaping
This is just the start of our design process. We have a pretty significant design
meeting on August 6th, but this is our exterior concept. (She showed a diagram of
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the project) On the left is where the commercial space will be if you are looking
from Dryden Road and this would be the street view looking North towards
Dryden. This gives you an idea of the look and feel we are going for with natural
colors.
M. Hatch-Are the upper stories residences? Yes.
M. Hatch- If all along the base facing Dryden Road are residences on the first
floor? You said there was some commercial. There is also 1,600 sq. feet of
commercial space.
M. Hatch-Are there some residences facing Dryden Road? Yes. She showed an
example of the clubhouses they have done in the past. What will be unique
about this clubhouse is that there will be units above it. Clubhouse will include
community space, gym, and pool.
We will be focusing on green practices in our building design, we are exploring
solar energy/renewable energy solutions, limiting greenhouse gases and looking
into heat pumps. We know we need to reduce variance requests related to green
space. Parking – we know there is a concern over traffic impacts. We are getting
the traffic study started now and hope to have it done by September. We are
continuing to look at the Varna Redevelopment Plan to make sure we are in line
with that as much as we can be. We know that storm water management has
been a priority for a lot of the neighbors. We will be making the situation in the
area better and will certainly be working to make sure it is better than adequate.
The commercial space along Dryden Road needing to be doubled is something
we can easily accommodate and will be doing.
J. Skaley – You will need a variance for the commercial space because it is
zoned residential. R Burger advised there are all 3 zones represented in this
project.
We have an outreach platform for community engagement in the development
process. We have had a community meeting and continue to invite the
community to give us feedback. There are questions on there, it will tell about the
meeting we are having and encourage people to come out. As we make updates
to our plans, even though they are available on line, we will also have revised
site plans, floor plans will all be on the platform.
M. Hatch - Any pictures of the buildings? No, as they are still in the
development design phase. Our first significant meeting to nail down what floor
plans, units and all that will happen before the next board meeting.
M. Hatch-Does the crosswalk in the picture cross Dryden Road? Yes, but it
does not have to stay.
M. Hatch questioned the commercial space. We will only have the one
commercial space; however, the feedback they have received indicates 800 sq.
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feet would not be adequate for a commercial tenant. They have not yet lined up a
tenant so if we have any suggestions they would be open to that as well.
P. Davies – asked that the initial site plan be put up on the screen. He is
concerned about the extent of parking that would be blacktopped and that
water would not be able to soak in and I would therefore like to request this
entire project be submitted to the Conservation Board for consideration.
D Weinstein – With regards to that issue, you mentioned you are requesting a
9% reduction in our required green space so you would have just 51%
built/49%green space. However, the information submitted to us and the
Town Board clearly says you are going to have 60% impervious space so you
have inconsistencies. The calculation being referred to has to do with our
environmental submittal and the calculation for that is different from what is
required for this. I don’t want to lose my temper. You’re asking boards to make
decisions based on the best available information that you are providing to us.
Besides a huge sweep of at least 25 errors/conflicts in your environmental
submittal with information you provided elsewhere, is this one that clearly says
60% of the land is going to be impervious. Now that is not a calculation. It is
either 60% or it’s not. I beg to differ. I want to be respectful here, but the way
it’s calculated for the town you can include your sidewalks and any paths that
would provide connectivity. Only the sidewalk that goes from the development
to the trail, which is not very large. Not the other sidewalks. You’re playing
games here. If we need to break that down further and bring it again I am happy
to do so, but I do know they are different. What we are concerned about is how
much impervious space there is and you have said in your environmental
submittal that there is going to be 60% impervious space. That’s not green
space in any way, shape or form.
J Wilson – This is a big project and we need a systematic way to get our
input/thoughts, which are going to the Town Board, so if we could either go
methodically around the table or some way other than the crossfire, random
shots approach I would think we would use our time the most efficiently.
T. Hatfield – What exactly is your understanding of what we are being asked to
comment on here? My view is this is a Town Board project, they have reached
out to us basically for preliminary site plan/sketch plan feedback.
M. Moseley – that is the way it was explained to me.
T Hatfield – then we should keep our focus to that area of expertise because the
Town Board has asked for that.
M. Moseley stated he doesn’t think we need to get in an argument with the
developers. I don’t think that’s the intent here.
D. Weinstein- I’m trying to get the information.
M. Moseley – I understand, but if we feel the information isn’t provided then
that’s an item we identify for the Town Board. We don’t need to get into a
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discussion. We’ve been given the ability to comment and they take our
comments in that capacity.
T. Hatfield – I understand your frustration but we aren’t in the position as we
don’t have any of the preliminary information, none of the supplementary
information.
M. Hatch – We can make a statement that we believe that there is
inaccurate/inconsistent information with the given parameters that must be
evaluated and we feel that until those are reconciled we cannot give our
approval. If David wants to submit a list. I’ve read a list and I’m relatively
convinced that that list is accurate. I think we could make a case for that and
just bring it to the Town Board. I think that’s a part of our role here.
M. Moseley Our role is to come up with that list and provide to the Town Board
as a recommendation
M. Hatch not as a recommendation – as a statement that given our expertise
and given our role as a planning board to evaluate.
M. Moseley – I don’t disagree with you, but our role is to recommend concerns
to the Town Board. We have no approval process in this process at this point
and time.
M. Hatch – exactly, I think the recommendation would be to not approve it.
D. Weinstein- I’m sure you’ve seen the list I created of 13 major conflicts
between Trinitas’ proposed plan and our Comprehensive Plan, or the Varna
Development Plan which is an official part of our Comprehensive Plan. So, we
have 13 things that are inconsistent. Now, when I met with you at the open
house and I explained these inconsistences I did expect some movement
between the plan then and what you have presented tonight and on your
screen, you say that you are looking for ways of making this plan fit into what
the Varna Community Plan requires, but in fact, what you submitted 10 days
after that discussion, what you continue to stay with as a project, has not
addressed any of those conflicts. I’m getting no confidence that you have any
interest, and your business model doesn’t fit (with these 13 places there are
conflicts) with our adopted plan.
J. Wilson – I organized my thoughts around SEQR because it made the most
sense to me. It appears to me that this is a type 1 action, I think that’s what
the Town Board said they wanted a full FEAF. My first thought is the
following, there needs to be a concrete and specific plan that, among other
things, addresses the categories in SEQR. Right now, I hear by-play between
the representatives of the project and the Town Board and by-play between my
colleagues and me with the developer. But there is nothing specific and
concrete and settled sufficient where I could feel that I could say anything
other than I need more information. Until or unless there is a specific plan
that covers all of the areas that would be in SEQR, that covers all of the areas
that we would have to look at, or the Town Board has to look at for site plan
review, there’s really nothing to react to. The second is that I think it would be
very helpful practice if there were a written response to the County’s request
for information under 239 in their new 2018 Energy Guidelines and I say that
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in part because I spent considerable part of the afternoon reading the proposal
for the North Campus dormitories created by Cornell so I’m hearing talk on the
one side and reading very concrete information on the other and if I had the
concrete information I believe I could make a confident recommendation.
Finally, you’ve probably seen, I wrote to my colleagues the areas I felt were
important:
1) The Town Board should actually engage in a full environmental impact
statement process. As it’s been mentioned by others, the impact of the
proposal on the land on many areas needs to be investigated and
information provided about how you are going to address the potential
issues there so that the Town Board can finally decide how big an impact
is the disturbance or the use of the land going to create and whether or
not it is significant enough to require the EAF;
2) Same with regards to impact on transportation. Lots of people, including
me have listed the concerns that we all have because we drive that area a
lot.
3) The impact on energy requires a full-blown investigation. Again, because
large amounts of use of energy under SEQR and greenhouse gas
emissions which result typically end up as significant issues that require
alternatives or mitigation measures.
4) Finally, I join in the chorus that says the proposal as it stands appears to
have great inconsistencies regarding the various community plans which
I believe apply and therefore, that must be addressed in a way so that
there can be a cogent discussion on what alternatives and mitigation
measures should be taken.
J. Skaley – I was looking at the slopes on this project. You have approximately
15% slope with this road coming down here, you have 20% slopes over here
with these units. Presumably either built down into the area or filled to level
the area but I don’t know what the plan is there but something must happen. I
don’t think you can cantilever these things over the slope the dirt work on this
project is substantial. We do not have full grading plans and will not have them
until we can stop moving buildings around. I raise this because in your EAF you
said there would be no substantial excavation. This is going to require a huge
amount of excavation moving dirt all over the place. I have walked parts of this
area just to get a feel as to it. There is a considerable number of mature trees
on this site and I don’t see how you’re going to create a landscaping system
that is going to preserve any of those mature trees. You’re overlaying, about as
close as you can possibly do, the parking area and the townhouse
developments. This is part of the greenspace issue that we are concerned with.
This is a dam structure up in here and it has just a spillway going through it,
any water that comes down the slope and overflow will go down into the area
that goes behind the Community Center and into neighboring property
Obviously, there is going to have to be considerable work and some kind of way
of putting a flow constriction in here, that is going to retain the storm water
and obviously it is going to be let out, which would bring the level back down
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again so you have more capacity. The other thing is you say there’s going to be
an underground system for catching water but I don’t see it on this site sketch
anywhere. I think a full storm water management plan has been requested. A
lot of this will be in some of the environmental items that TG Miller is having us
put together over the next six weeks, so that will be available as soon as we
have that ready. I’m frankly very skeptical with the amount of impervious
surfaces and given what we’ve had issues with in the past, and the previous
development that was proposed for this site, which required a full EAF by the
way, that they were unable to satisfy at the time storm water management
retaining on the site. I think there is going to have to be more we’ve had 9
corings. This area is really made land, much of it, and so 9 corings are not
substantial in defining what is underneath here. We don’t know. We agree,
because we need to know as far as building goes, so we have requested
additional corings and I should have those back this week. Other than that, I
would agree with what Joe just said, this really requires additional
environmental survey to find out what’s up there and also, you’re going to take
out a lot of mature trees down at the retention pond. The other concern with
the retention pond is where the water will go if it overflows. I know our storm
water management plan will have to consider these types of situations. There
seems to be a feeling that everything will percolate down. Well, maybe, but I’m
not so sure given the soils in here percolation isn’t always the best. The only
thing we can control is what is on our property. If there is storm water running
down a hill that’s not our property well if it starts drifting into other people’s
property it is a problem. And hopefully we can review that more when we have
our full storm water management plan. I have full confidence he’s going to
design that to standard and it will be reviewed by the core of engineers, it will be
reviewed by your engineers.
M. Hatch – I just want clarification of what you just said “the only thing we can
control is what is on our property. If it runs down onto our property we can’t
control it.” I think you must have meant something different from that. No, I
don’t. If there is existing runoff on hills that is not related to our property that
might be causing flooding it is not something we can mitigate for people already
existing, we can only control
M. Hatch – It is my understanding that if you are down water from someplace
up above you, you have the responsibility in controlling what comes from up
above. And we will, anything that comes from our site
M. Moseley- STOP, please. We are not getting into an argument again.
M. Hatch – Maybe the premises are inappropriate but it seems to me that if
water comes onto your property from someplace else
M. Moseley – you’re dealing with DEC regulations as imposed onto the town
that are going to be reviewed by the engineer. I understand what you are
saying, but what our engineer and storm water engineer would review and
make recommendations to the Town Board would be in compliance with the
local storm water regulations that we have, which is also in compliance with
DEC regulations. The storm water management plan we have is adopted as
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Town of Dryden and any associate documents that we have for that. What the
DEC typically says, not that I’m getting into a debate or trying to debate
anybody here, is that any water that is coming onto your site and flowing off
your site – you can’t increase or decrease that. It must be maintained at that
level on the existing storm water management aspect. So, whatever any
developer develops with storm water they cannot increase or decrease their
water associated with the impact of the property owners around them.
M. Hatch – I see, okay.
C. Anderson – Sidewalks on Dryden Road, you don’t show them. I know the
State is coming through with sidewalks but I think it should be whoever gets
there first. Okay. I think you show sidewalks on your plan. Part of the plan
for Varna is that developers provide pocket parks, places of gathering between
communities, different developments. I know you have two pieces of property
across the street. We would love to offer that up as park land for the
community. We are not building on that land.
J. Skaley – So the question I think I heard at the Town Board meeting was that
the existing structures (trailer & dwelling) would be removed. Yes. Along with
ones located where the buildings would be going. The concern I have is there at
least a dozen families that live within those structures currently, which would
be displaced and changing the population from a permanent residency to
residents who will be transient is one of the things that David raised in his
point is that that is contrary to what we are hoping for in our community
development plan.
C. Anderson – So pocket parks are important as a place to gather, we’ve made
other developers have them. I’ve always been concerned with snow removal.
You’ll need to think about where you’re going to put/pile your snow. The last,
802, talked about trucking it off-site if we had a lot of snow, which is not the
environmentally friendly way to do it. Keep that in mind as you go through it. I
don’t know how this board feels about it, we waived some of the islands in the
parking lots that broke up the parking spaces (one every 10 spaces) that you
had to have. 802- we waived those, mostly for snow removal, so I don’t know if
these little bump-outs make sense other than where you have the pedestrian
walkway. But I think that would be something that we could talk about. I
think that’s an area you could look at, mostly for snow removal in my opinion.
Bicycle racks – storage, are they inside? Yes, we will have racks and inside
storage. Facade for these two buildings – we go back to the design guidelines
for Varna and anything that fronts Dryden Road is supposed to mimic the
character of Varna if we could find out what that is really.
J. Wilson – This reinforces my point that we still are way at sea at what the
proposal is yet.
C. Anderson – This is the sketch plan and we’re trying to flush out ideas that
the town has, the public has, this is still preliminary. We talked about pocket
parks, they aren’t on here but they’re clearly in what the whole plan is to have
a community that’s a walkable community.
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J. Skaley – Displacing residents for a pocket park, it doesn’t make sense. I
don’t know, I’m assuming that by removing the buildings that you are acting to
create additional green space. Is that part of the deal? Correct.
C. Anderson – that’s part of the redevelopment probably as well.
J. Skaley – that’s a matter of perspective.
C. Anderson – you could say the same about 802, there were 5 structures that
were all affordable houses that were there.
D. Weinstein – First, what is important for this board to comment on is the fact
that since over 12 acres of this 16-acre parcel is not redevelopment we should
not be thinking, and give the Town Board the information, that it is practical to
give a bonus for redevelopment. It has been used as a dump. That’s not our
definition of redevelopment if you look. Our redevelopment definition is
“structures that are badly in need of repair”
J. Wilson – So is our input that we question under what circumstances a
redevelopment bonus might be given?
D. Weinstein – yes.
M. Moseley – valid question.
D. Weinstein – secondly, I don’t want to sound like I’m criticizing my fellow
board members, because it is good to bring up any and all ideas, but dealing
with the minutia here when we have gotten no information about how they
plan to not conflict with the Varna Plan, that’s the big issue. There’s been no
movement on any of those items. We need to think about the big picture. As
you know, the sewer system in Varna, is allowed to send a certain amount of
sewage to the Treatment Plant. TG Miller gave us one number. I met with the
head of joint taskforce, Cynthia Brock. We went through numbers over and
over again to try and pin down a number that they felt was comfortable. Their
number is a little bit higher than TG Miller who said we have enough room
when we subtract the number of units that have already been approved (like
802). We have somewhere between 150-200 units available. Cynthia Brock
said a little bit higher number than that, somewhere between 250-350. That is
for all of the area, all the way out to NYSEG. By putting this development in
this place, you are either using up all of our available units It is my
understanding this was brought up at one of the board meetings that this is not
an issue and that there is available capacity if needed. So, I explored that
R. Burger -Wastewater Treatment Plant has to be approached for capacity so it
is part of any growth in our town.
D. Weinstein – So I explored that and the procedure is that we would have to
purchase it from one of the other fast-growing towns – either the City of Ithaca
or the Town of Ithaca. We would have to purchase. It is very unclear if they
would be interested at all.
M. Moseley – It sounds to me that you have a concern with the sewer.
D. Weinstein – I have a concern with the sewer.
J. Skaley stated he has a concern with the age of the infrastructure.
D. Weinstein- The Varna Plan has an example that on this site there would
potentially be placed a “new town” possibly 100 homes there, this development
would use up that site, not give an opportunity to be used for those single-
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July 26, 2018
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family homes and the Plan clearly states that what we are looking for and need
is moderately priced, single family, owner occupied homes. The County’s
survey very clearly identifies that the majority of the units that Trinitas are
proposing we already have a surplus of in the County of. The concern is that
you are proposing to build units that there is not a need for and you are using
up a major piece of available land that could have been used (and was
proposed in the Varna Plan to be used) for the kind of housing we need – single
family, owner occupied homes.
J. Kiefer- I agree with all the general comments that you made Joe. I have to
say that when I read the Varna Plan and I look at things like it calling for
diverse types of housing, when I look at the housing density, for example, and
the trail side development that is in the Varna Plan I think they call for 200
beds and this is 600. The inconsistencies aren’t subtle, they are blinding.
Startling how different that is from anything that could have been envisioned in
the Varna Plan. I can’t get beyond that. It’s just the wrong place for this
project.
M. Hatch – I agree entirely. This is a message related to the Town Board’s
request to us to do a comprehensive plan review, which I was a part of a
number of years ago. Out of which came the Varna Plan, which all became a
part of zoning and I am feeling, as a Planning Board member, considerably
disrespected if we are asked to do a Comprehensive Plan Review which will
then be completely ignored in approving a project like this. It does not conform
in any way to the Comprehensive Plan or to the Varna Plan. I don’t necessarily
think we’re going to put single family homes up there, but there has to be
something that conforms more readily with this. I also agree about
environmental concerns. I don’t see any way to avoid major water problems.
We can do storm water surveys and everything else, but we can also not waste
our time doing that if it’s obvious. Inconsistencies and problems and that’s the
word I would give to the Town Board from this board.
M. Moseley – I reviewed D. Sprout’s memo to the Town Board and it is fairly
comprehensive as far as what he identifies as not being provided, such as
exterior lighting and items of that nature. You also indicated that you are still
moving buildings around. Yes, we can’t do full engineering plans until we get a
concept. My concern with all of this is we really can’t take a look at a whole lot
of this until you have more concrete evidence of what you actually want to put
in place. You don’t have a final grading plan, you don’t have your final
photometric plan, you don’t have your final storm water plan. I know you’re
moving that way but it’s very hard for this board to make a recommendation to
the Town Board based on the documents we don’t’ even have or subject to
change in the near future.
T. Hatfield -First of all, I’m glad to see that we have a developer with the
financial resources to come in here and ask for input on a preliminary basis.
For us to sit here and start picking this apart looking for things that should be
in site plan review or further down the road. They aren’t coming in here and
spending millions of dollars developing a project that is going to fail. That
means it has to be market oriented and there has to be demand for it. Talking
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about wanting a single-family house and such, the market dictates what will
work economically. Let’s work together. I hear nothing but resistance all the
way around me tonight, with some exceptions. Secondarily, coming to the
point as a Planning Board member I personally agree quite a bit with what
John says. It doesn’t fit with anything I’ve looked at in 30 years, in terms of
where we’ve come from with the Varna Plan, the overlay, but there is plenty of
opportunity here and I’d like to see that opportunity moved in a positive
direction. I think it’s too dense. I think there are some legitimate concerns
about water. P. Davies raised an interesting point over here. This community
has a lot of resources and amongst them is a human resource; reach out to the
other boards. Maybe form a consolidated group that can work with the
developer and make this thing come forward. We’ve got someone here at the
table that wants to do a project in our community. Let’s work together.
D. Weinstein – Tom I understand. One of your greatest qualities is that you
want to see if you can find an avenue that will work for everybody. That’s
great. In this case, when they have shown no compromise to acknowledge any
of the things that the Varna Plan stated it wants, we are potentially causing
them to spend a lot of money without a very good probability that it’s going to
end in a good compromise. They have to start by showing that they see the
Varna Plan, they understand how they can adapt their system. Until they do
that I think it’s wrong to give them the idea that we’re looking for some way of
making this work. I think you’re sending the wrong message because you need
to have a developer who makes the attempt first. We haven’t seen that at all.
T. Hatfield -Unfortunately David, I hear what you’re saying, but in this
instance, it isn’t the Planning Board’s job to lead that charge. Because of the
nature of the project, the size of the project, the mixed use of the project this is
in the hands of the Town Board and that’s why they’ve asked for our input. I
think we’ve done a good job here tonight of identifying some issues. All I’m
saying is it’s easy to say no. In doing that we are losing an opportunity to find
the appropriate compromise between the market place vs. what we as a
community want. Somewhere in there, there is a compromise and one that will
work for everybody or as close as you can get. That’s the purpose of this
process. That’s why it’s called a preliminary sketch plan. Let’s take this thing
forward with an understanding that we need to reach a compromise. I have
enough confidence in the Town Board that they aren’t going to do something
that the community isn’t going to let them do. The community will hold them
accountable, but you have to trust the process. It is a process and I don’t hear
that happening here.
M. Hatch – I think that’s what I meant when I said there is a process. The
process is that we have a Comprehensive Plan and the Varna Plan is a part of
that Comprehensive Plan and all have been instituted into zoning and there are
many, many inconsistencies between those plans and this. Therefore, our
participation in this process, which is years long, has been ignored in many,
many areas. So, we are calling that to the attention of the Town Board because
that is our role.
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T. Hatfield – In all fairness Martin, we spent a fair amount of money and a lot
of time developing the Varna Plan that the community in Varna has since come
back to us to say it’s not really what they wanted. All of this is in a state of
flux all the time, and that’s not unusual. There can be some differences but
you sit down and develop those differences into a plan forward.
M. Hatch – Yes, I agree and I think we’ve been asked to do a revision of some
things but I don’t think any of the revisions have said that we want to
development such as this.
T. Hatfield – That might be true, but that decision is going to be ultimately up
to the Town Board and the developer.
M. Hatch – And now they have a document already that they can use as their
guidance, which we prepared for them.
J. Skaley – Trinitas has been developing these projects in a number of places
around the country. They have a model. Their model is consistent. I’ve talked
to people in two locations about the projects and both of those projects were
turned down as a result because they were inconsistent with the local area.
The size and the style of the structures, which are as you pointed out at the
Town Board meeting, each of these bedrooms will have their own bathroom,
that’s the current plan? Yes That’s a dormitory style living. So we are going to
be bringing walkthrough tours, video tours – you can see what this looks like. I
think there’s an idea that it looks more like a dorm than it is. I’m sure it will
look nice, I’m not concerned about that. I’m concerned about the convertibility
of these structures. I think you will see that if we were to exit this…I think you
will see that the layouts will lend to that. In August we will be prepared to show
that.
J. Wilson – Just to point out to you Tom, they have used exactly the same
model in numerous places. Their model is to build for students, primarily in
college towns, and they find places within a couple of miles of the campus if
possible with land that is relatively inexpensive and that’s where they put their
model down. Irrespective of the local plan.
T. Hatfield -I’m fine with that and I understand that, and that in two
communities they said no. That’s ok, that’s a fine answer. No one should have
a pre-ordained answer here. They know the economics of their model, we have
a community that has some needs, we’ve got lots of discussions about
affordable housing. We have real needs in this community for housing. How
you make those things come together is a different issue and when we were
doing the Comprehensive Plan one of the things the consultants brought us in
was a pretty picture of some town here in upstate New York where McDonalds
changed their whole world-wide plan because they wanted to have McDonalds
in that spot. So just because they have an existing model doesn’t mean they
can’t make it conform to what our requirements are.
M. Hatch- My understanding is there have been several meetings and those
recommendations for significant changes are not forthcoming. It’s hard to see
what goes on behind the scenes for us. To say that we’re not making J. Wilson –
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I’m not sure we’re going to convince each other of the merits of our individual
arguments and it’s 9:30. I have a question though.
In what form is this discussion going to be conveyed to the Town Board?
Because what we asked them to ask us to do, was to give them input on the
project as we saw it. Are we going to try to summarize this or are we simply
going to hand them the verbatim notes and let them figure it out?
M. Moseley – I think we need to let the minutes reflect the discussions that
occurred here.
D. Weinstein – I would like to make a motion that we say given the information
we’ve been given at this time, we cannot support the current proposal that is
on the table.
M. Hatch – seconded.
D. Weinstein – then we can list that list that you’ve just generated of all the
serious concerns that we have.
P. Davies – Looking at this plan, I would presume that to do it, all of the
vegetation on that site has to be removed. So you’re changing vegetation for
essentially buildings and parking lot. Is that correct?
M. Moseley – Sounds correct.
T. Hatfield – David, I don’t see a proposal on the table. We have preliminary
sketch plan on the table. I can’t support your resolution, I don’t know what
we’re voting on. We had a discussion tonight. We have got a lot of good points
that were made on a lot of different sides, those things should be summarized
or put in the minutes and submitted to the Town Board.
J. Wilson – In essence, I agree with Tom. We don’t have a full-blown plan here
to react to. So, if nothing else, we need a lot more information to provide a
response so I can’t vote no until I have something other than we obviously need
more information.
D. Weinstein – I would agree with you, but as far as I know this is the only
mechanism that has been laid out here. This is the only time the Planning
Board is going to be able to weigh in on this.
T. Hatfield – Amend your resolution that they keep asking us for a while
because there’s going to be a lot of renditions before this thing is done. There is
probably a 12-month planning process ahead of us as a community on this
thing.
J. Skaley – Process question: I am in full agreement that we don’t have enough
information here and certainly, as the plan develops there are going to be many
more questions. Under the rules, the Planning Board doesn’t have a role in
even commenting unless the Town Board gives us permission to do so. They
did once, but can we take and extend that process?
M. Moseley – We have to request the Town Board to extend that process. We
do have a motion and a second, we have discussion.
M. Hatch – I would like to amend the motion.
D. Weinstein – Motion was given the information we currently have our
recommendation is that in its current form (which I do think is a plan that got
put forward) there is an application on the table. In its current form we cannot
support this proposal.
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M. Hatch – Would like to suggest that we amend it and that we feel strongly as
a board that any subsequent emendations of the plan be brought to the
Planning Board for its consideration. Even if you don’t believe there is
anything on the table now, I feel there is a lot of information on the table. So,
are you suggesting we do two back-to-back weeks every time? I’m asking that
we be a part of the future plans, it should not proceed without being in tandem
with the Planning Board. M. Moseley -is that a part of your motion or not? M.
Hatch, no it’s a justification for what I said is my amendment.
J. Wilson – I would think we would be more coherent and more effective if we
actually get a full-blown plan that covers all aspects that the developer thinks
need to be covered. I now, once again, harken to the proposal I’m looking at for
Cornell and its North campus dorms. I remember well the Maplewood graduate
housing proposal that was a quarter size bigger than this one, but roughly the
same kind of thing. Then I would feel we could be effective in reacting, but to
have a debate every time won’t be productive. So, I would vote against the
motion with its addendum.
T. Hatfield – I think an appropriate action tonight on this body’s part would be
to forward our comments. But I also think that we might adopt a resolution
asking the Town Board to consider establishing a standing committee of the
boards with a Planning Board member or two, someone from the Conservation
Board, maybe even someone from the ZBA and let them figure it out – it’s their
project. But you have resources here. I hear your plea, but this is a big deal
for our community so if for you to have to come here back-to-back really
doesn’t bother me. I’m sorry. This community has to work with you, and in my
opinion, we want to work with you. My suggestion is we go back to the Town
Board with a resolution that says we’re willing to roll up our sleeves to work
with you if you want us to, if you don’t, then there is nothing we can do about
it David. But what we can do individually is go to a Town Board meeting and
have your say as an individual. As a member of this community. People know
we are on the Planning Board so be very clear when you start your comments
that you are speaking as member of the community, not as a member of the
Planning Board or Conservation Board, or whatever it is we represent. We do
wear two hats and we have been cautioned before to make sure we don’t cross
those lines because we do have responsibilities. So that would be my
alternative to your suggestion. If you want to withdraw it or if you want us to
vote on it.
D. Weinstein – I want to go back to this idea of recommending to the Town
Board that we have insufficient information to do anything more than list our
concerns, but we feel it is important that once a firmer plan or series of plans
get on the table, the Planning Board can then weigh in on whether those plans
should be recommended or not recommended. I’m trying to see if I can alter
this to make everybody happy.
M. Moseley – So you’re amending your resolution?
D. Weinstein – I’m not yet, I’m just exploring whether that might work.
A. Green – As the person from the Town Board who moved your request to get
input here, I’m glad to have heard this conversation, and I want to review what
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July 26, 2018
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I understand is the process at this point. I spoke with our attorney a couple of
days ago. It seemed to me that this conversation, which talks about all of the
concerns that we have, is totally appropriate. We wouldn’t expect that we
would have a finished product at this point to react to. It’s very important for
us to list the concerns that we have now. The new piece of information that I
heard from our attorney is that once we close the sketch plan; the Town Board
has 10 days to write up concerns and I think that that means what we would
look upon favorably and what we require for this project. So, what I would like
is the translation from this conversation into a very concrete list of what we
would require. I would like to see input from the board within that 10 days
after the sketch plan review. I would really like to ask for help from the
Planning Board. Perhaps a representative or two from the Planning Board and
input from the Conservation Board.
T. Hatfield – We can’t do that in advance any more than you can. But if you
were to embrace the concept of a standing committee that could be put
together much more quickly, administratively, than meetings of individual
boards because we all have our schedules and we are all busy. I think you
could get the input you want.
A. Green – The first step is really converting this conversation into
recommendations.
J. Kiefer – When do you need that conversion.
A. Green –We are going to keep the sketch plan review open. We will continue
it at our August meeting but we won’t be able to close it because the developer
will not be ready to respond to our engineering report. I think the response to
the engineering report is going to address a certain category of questions that
folks have brought up. So, you’ve already indicated that you want to respond
to that and it will take you to September to do that. We’re not going to close
sketch plan until September. That will be the 3rd Thursday, we then have 10
days to write up our requirements for this project. That’s the point, the 4th
week of September, that it would be very helpful to bring together that input so
we’re communicating clearly to these folks.
J. Wilson – What that list does, is list the things you want in a sketch plan in
order to decide whether the sketch plan is acceptable.
A. Green – No, at that point we have already reviewed the sketch plan and
we’ve had this dialogue. We are saying this is what we want in the full site
plan, as I understand it.
J. Wilson - I’m sorry, what you want in the site plan, I misspoke.
D. Weinstein – The reason I’m not in favor of your idea for a standing
committee is that as we’ve heard, there are a lot of different ideas and I don’t
think any two of us could represent that. If I were to be so lucky or unlucky to
be chosen to be on that committee, you wouldn’t want me representing your
opinions. It would be better to have them in a round table like this where we
can get all the ideas out on the table. I know you’re trying to be practical in
terms of moving forward, but I really think this body needs to be involved.
T. Hatfield – I’m not so concerned about being practical now, I’m concerned
about how we get the Town Board armed with enough feedback from its
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collective pools of expertise, so they have resources they can draw on a little
more readily than farming it out to us at our next meeting. It’s a cumbersome
process by definition and I don’t think it’s fair to the Town Board or the
developer.
J. Kiefer - We already expressed our opinion about this particular site plan. I
think at this point it’s time to quit rattling our sabers and say alright, we’re
willing to work with you – let’s do it.
C. Anderson – You’re presenting more at the Town Board meeting in August?
Yes
J. Skaley – I agree with what David said, this needs to be a full Planning Board
discussion and not a subcommittee. This is the largest single project that is
coming to the Town of Dryden so it deserves due process. Whether it takes
more time to go through it all with the Planning Board, and maybe the
Conservation Board, so be it. We can’t afford to make a mistake in this
situation because it basically excludes other possibilities that could be there.
So, it depends on what their final site plan is going to look like, we don’t know
at this point, but I think it still needs to have the capacity to have that kind of
in depth review. I’m hoping that the Town Board will agree with that and go
along with the fact that the Planning Board is ready and able to continue to
participate in ongoing discussions to make more concrete recommendations to
the Town Board as they move through the process.
C. Anderson – Why don’t we ask the Town Board if we can get a second bite at
this, maybe the 2nd week of September before their agenda meeting. They
would have flushed out the August meeting with the developers and there
would be more on paper that we could all look at. We could have a special
meeting just to discuss that, is that feasible for people?
M. Moseley – that is a potential. We have a motion and second on the table so
we are going to take a vote right now.
All in favor of David’s motion (already seconded by M. Hatch) unanimously
approved.
David Weinstein – So what is going to be sent to the Town Board?
M. Moseley – At this point and time, Craig had a nice follow up and you’re
asking for us to be able to look at this the week of the 10th of September. Is
that a resolution Craig?
C. Anderson – that would be a resolution to ask
D. Weinstein – is there anything in there about passing on these comments?
M. Moseley – these comments will be passed on.
A. Green – the most important thing from my point of view as a Town Board
member, I would really like to request that this get converted into a very clear
set of requests and requirements.
T. Hatfield – a bullet point summary to put in the minutes. Can they be
circulated to all of us to be reviewed before going to the Town Board?
Planning Board
July 26, 2018
Page 24 of 28
M. Moseley – We will ask Bambi to pull out all the comments and put them in a
bullet point and send them out to us? No, there are no comments.
D. Weinstein – I’m not asking to make comments, I’m asking for us to review
the comments to make sure they are accurate.
M. Moseley – You’re asking for review for accuracy of transcript?
D. Weinstein – yes.
M. Mosely – Ask for the bullets to be done and sent to Planning Board for
accuracy review before it is sent to the Town Board.
C. Anderson -Motion for us to have a special meeting sometime before the
Town Board’s meeting in September. 2nd by J Kiefer. Any discussion on that?
All in favor – unanimously approved.
T. Hatfield – I will not be able to attend, will send my proxy.
RESOLUTION #18 – Review of Trinitas townhome project in Varna
David Weinstein offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED the Town of Dryden Planning Board decided that given the
information that we have been given at this time, we cannot support the
current proposal that is on the table.
Seconded by M. Hatch, unanimously approved.
RESOLUTION #19 – Special Meeting – Trinitas
Craig Anderson offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED the Town of Dryden Planning Board will have a special meeting
sometime before the Dryden Town Board’s September meeting.
2nd J. Kiefer, unanimously approved.
Town Board Charge to Planning Board for review idea of instituting
impact fees
T. Hatfield – I can summarize my feelings in about four words: impact on
affordable housing. Highly regressive. We as a community have a stated goal
of wanting to achieve more affordable housing in our community. That impact
fee, and anything that raises the cost of housing defeats that purpose. There
are a lot of ways to do what the board is trying to achieve. Impact fees is
probably one of the worst that you could choose.
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July 26, 2018
Page 25 of 28
J. Wilson – I read all of the materials. I did not understand what the focus or
purpose the exercise was, i.e., what problem is trying to be solved and what
kinds of fees were we talking about. So, I frankly, at this point
M. Moseley – I’m not sure of the specific fees yet.
J. Wilson – then I have no opinion. That was a generic grab bag of stuff.
M. Moseley – I’m not aware of any specific number value associated with
impact fees. I think they were looking at the conceptual idea of it to see if the
Planning Board thought it was a good idea, am I incorrect on that?
R. Burger – Numbers have been talked about, there may be other
municipalities that are in the order of $1,000-$1,500 per dwelling unit impact
fees. Specifically as a funding source for the rec reserve fund.
M. Moseley – I think the other complexity Dryden has is that there are so many
outlying areas, like where I live, I don’t use any Dryden recreation because I
live closer to other communities. There would have a negative impact on my
neighborhood or myself if I looked to build a new house somewhere down the
line. Town of Dryden doesn’t plow my roads, they really don’t do anything for
me to be completely honest. That would be my opinion on the matter, I would
agree with Tom as well.
J. Skaley – I think there are impact fees for different things and I wasn’t aware
it was to go to the rec fund.
T. Hatfield – There was a packet that came out in the email that was interesting
reading. I’m very adamant to that one.
J. Kiefer – I would say cart before the horse. I think before we jump to a
conclusion that we even need to have enhanced recreation facilities, we need to
update the Comp Plan and survey people and find out if they even care about
that.
C. Anderson – I would agree with Tom. When you look at the school district
and talk about the difference between the Ithaca taxes and the Dryden taxes,
the average house in Dryden pays $1,000 more in school taxes than Ithaca.
Now you come to Dryden and build a house and people are already paying
more in school taxes and now you want them to pay $1,500 or whatever you
are affecting families and affordable housing.
J. Wilson – The developer would pay the fee, right?
M. Moseley – No, even a single family, if you were to develop one house on your
property you are going to pay those impact fees.
J. Wilson – Because it’s my house. So, if I’m building 8 houses on a plot then I
would be paying the fee times 8. So it’s masked, if you will, in the price of the
house. So the notion that I’m going to walk into the house and say oh damn, I
just paid $1,000 more is not really accurate.
T. Hatfield- Well that’s not true because the price of the unit you are going to
buy compared to a unit in another community that doesn’t have impact fees
will be on the average, what they cited in the study was $5,700 more.
D. Weinstein – So can we have a conversation at some point in the future
about, (just assuming that our rec fund is so depleted that we can’t provide
services that people want), other mechanisms for generating funds.
Planning Board
July 26, 2018
Page 26 of 28
M. Hatch – I agree with John. We haven’t done a comprehensive plan to see
where rec fits in, where environment fits in, with all the different things that an
impact fee could be used for. For example, if we had a tremendous problem
with trash I can imagine an impact fee for people producing trash. I don’t want
to make a blanket judgement about it until we have a comprehensive plan
survey. I would say it’s premature and it’s certainly premature to give it to one
place just to solve an issue.
RESOLUTION #20 -Instituting Impact Fees
J. Kiefer offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED the Town of Dryden Planning Board believes it is premature to
think about directing funds to any single destination and we would recommend
the comprehensive plan be updated along with a survey, and we will determine
at that point if there might be other alternatives.
Seconded C. Anderson, unanimously approved.
M. Moseley -I have the rest of R. Burger’s planning update, what else do you
have?
R. Burger – The work to do a SUP before the Town Board in August regarding a
veterinary office going in next to the SPCA on Hanshaw. Materials on the web
if you want to offer any comments to that.
D. Weinstein – How difficult would it be to have a brief statement about where
we are having problems with regards to the Zoning Board of Appeals, what kind
of variances are they approving? What kind of permits are people asking for?
So we have a better idea, the numbers are great – it’s better than we’ve had,
but I would really like to have an idea of where the action is happening. I don’t
know how easy that is. Location and what kind of permit are they asking for.
M. Burger – Maybe put up 20 building permits a month but (multiple
conversations going on) in the monthly update.
C. Anderson – We talk about site plan review and it’s been 3 years ago that I
recommended that we take it out of the Town Board’s hands. Just think about
it over the next month and maybe we really need to start thinking about a
process. It’s going to be a process.
D. Weinstein – So what are you asking for?
C. Anderson – For us to think about how do we get site plan reviews out of the
Town Board’s hands. They really don’t have the expertise to do a site plan
review.
M. Hatch – I remember that discussion and Tom I think we were on the same
T. Hatfield – I understand both sides of the argument very well. It’s a tricky
question but the Town Board would be wise to figure out some way to utilize
the resources they have available to them. They get themselves in trouble
when they don’t do that. It’s not a fatal error, but it doesn’t say a lot about the
Planning Board.
Planning Board
July 26, 2018
Page 27 of 28
M. Moseley- The last item I have is the Rail Trail Resolution. We made a
resolution two years ago that we supported the Rail Trail. We re-affirmed that
last year. The Rail Trail Task Force contacted me asking me if we would
reaffirm our resolution of support for the Rail Trail so they can apply for
additional funding, they were asked to provide the grant application again.
RESOLUTION #21 Re-affirming support of Rail Trail
RESOLVED that the Town of Dryden Planning Board re-affirms the Resolution
adopted September 22, 2016 supporting the Rail Trail:
Resolution: Acknowledging the support of the Town of Dryden Planning Board for the crea-
tion of a mixed use trail along the abandoned rail corridor connecting the Jim Schug Trail in
the Village of Dryden through the Village of Freeville and the hamlets of Etna and Varna to
the East Ithaca Recreation Way at the Ithaca Town line, herein referred to as the Dryden
Rail Trail.
WHEREAS: the Dryden Planning Board recognizes the importance of preserving the Town’s
natural resources and rural character, and providing residents with more opportunities to
observe and enjoy the natural beauty the Town offers,
WHEREAS, the Dryden Planning Board recognizes the importance of developing mixed use
recreational trails, as resources vital to improving the Town’s economic base, tourism,
property values, public health and fitness, and quality of life for Town residents,
WHEREAS, the Dryden Planning Board encourages the use of non-motorized modes of
transportation and recognizes the significant environmental and economic benefits of re-
ducing automobile use,
WHEREAS, the Town of Dryden Comprehensive Plan cites the creation of the Dryden Rail
Trail as an important transportation and recreational initiative,
WHEREAS, the Town’s 4.2-mile Jim Schug Trail is currently established and popular, and
runs south on the abandoned rail bed from the Village of Dryden, passing by Dryden Lake,
to the Harford town line,
WHEREAS, the Lehigh Valley Railroad abandoned the East Ithaca to Freeville and Cortland
rail beds and the Harford to Dryden, Freeville and Groton rail beds by 1977, and the aban-
doned rail beds are currently owned by a variety of private and public entities,
WHEREAS, the Town Board established a Rail Trail Task Force to take deliberate steps to
develop the Dryden Rail Trail including acquiring easements, securing funding and moving
the project through planning, design and construction,
Planning Board
July 26, 2018
Page 28 of 28
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Dryden Planning Board supports and endorses
the work of the Rail Trail Task Force and the creation of the Dryden Rail Trail.
J. Wilson offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED that the Town of Dryden Planning Board re-affirms the Resolution
adopted September 22, 2016 supporting the Rail Trail.
Seconded by D. Weinstein, unanimously approved.
There being no further business, on motion made by J. Kiefer seconded by T.
Hatfield and unanimously carried, the meeting was adjourned at 10:07 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Chrystle Terwilliger, Deputy Clerk