HomeMy WebLinkAbout2014-06-24 CB2014 – 6 – 24
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Town of Dryden Conservation Board
June 24, 2014
Members Present: Craig Schutt, Bob Beck, Rick Ryan, Bard Prentiss, Charlie Smith,
Mike Richmond (at 7:40PM), Jeremy Sherman (at 7:45), N. Munkenbeck (at 8:10)
Town Board Liaison: Linda Lavine
Planning Board Liaison: Marty Hatch
Tompkins County EMC: Steve Bissen
Guests: none
Absent: Gian Dodici
The meeting was opened at 7:15PM by Chairman Beck.
Review and approval of minutes from May 27th meeting.
C. Smith moved to accept the minutes with some minor revisions. R. Ryan seconded
the motion and the minutes were approved unanimously.
Citizen’s privilege:
Additions to agenda: R. Ryan has been appointed to the Dryden Recreation and
Youth Commission.
R. Ryan agreed to be the liaison to the DRYC and then decided that he would like to
also serve as a member on the Commission.
He explained that they are working on a Youth Needs Assessment and shared the
assessment that was done a couple of years ago. The Open Space Plan was also
discussed but only briefly, he will bring materials to the next DRYC meeting and work
with the Commission to make sure the previously generate definition works with their
future plans. The DRYC has asked how much of the Town is currently considered open
space but other than looking at the open space inventory, no one has a figure. As B.
Beck pointed out, quantifying the amount of open space would be difficult since size
doesn’t determine open space (it could be a small parcel of land)
R. Ryan is working on the Jim Schug/Dryden Lake trail expansion to Ithaca. The DRYC
was very interested in helping him with that project and has asked to be kept in the loop.
Reports and Updates:
Town Board - L. Lavine said there hadn’t been any big issues. She does feel it is
important for the Board to hear about the roadside issue (the Highway mowing).
She said she went to the Farmers’ Market this past Saturday and was happy to see how
well it was doing. M. Hatch asked if the two breweries in Town can sell at the Market.
No one had a definite answer.
L. Lavine said there is an expectation that the Court decision regarding the fracking
appeal could be handed down as early as Thursday.
Town Planning Board – M. Hatch stated that the Planning Board has not met since
last month, their next meeting is this Thursday. M. Hatch asked if the Conservation
Board had received a note from him and asked the Conservation Board for a response.
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Not all of the members received the note so M. Hatch summarized it as a discussion
about how it makes sense looking at the CEA brew- ha-ha and he was looking back at
some of the quotes that came out of that. “Process” stood out as being important and it
might be useful to engage people early on to get involved. As he pointed out last month,
during the Town’s zoning and comprehensive plan deliberations, the question became
what is an agricultural district is and what rights folks have when they live in an ag
district. He has been reading over material sent to him regarding Ag a nd Markets and
he is concerned that the open space discussion may lead to the same situation as the
CEAs. He thinks it would be beneficial to consider what is being accomplished with the
Open Space rules.
B. Prentiss replied that we don’t know yet.
C. Smith said if there is a need for public information sessions it is the prerogative of the
Town Board to call those. That would give it the authority of the Town Board although
that doesn’t mean the politics of it would be any less than they were with the C EAs.
He is frustrated with the people who were against the CEAs without logical reasons and
he is frustrated with the Town Board members who won’t and don’t do their homework.
We have to try to get everyone on the same page if we are going to do this.
M. Hatch asked who C. Smith meant by “we”.
C. Smith said that he means anyone who is involved in the Open Space Plan; all the
Boards for the Town.
M. Hatch wanted to know how he intends to get everyone on the same page.
C. Smith said he didn’t know. He thinks the directive from the Town Board is pretty
direct but if they want to refine it some to give us more information, he is fine with that.
B. Beck mentioned that the Conservation Board has been working with the Ag
Committee and to a lesser extent the DRYC and the Planning Board (all representative
of members of the Community) to come up with a plan that is reasonable for the Town.
Given the fact that previous surveys have indicated that the people of Dryden feel very
strongly about maintaining the rural character of our Town, he believes the citizens are
on our side. There are certain citizens that are opposed to almost everything the Town
does; that is reality.
C. Smith believes that is a political rational rather a logical rational.
B. Beck reminded the Board that less than a year ago, there was talk of a multi-board
committee to discuss the definition and the OSP.
C. Smith said he looks to the Town Board for leadership. We are advisory as are the
other Boards and Commissions and he doesn’t believe it is up to this group nor is it
politically expedient for this group to assume leadership.
M. Hatch found the quote by Bruno Schickle (from the CEA discussion last year) in
which he says the CEA process was not inclusive.
C. Smith responded that they never got to where it could be inclusive. He said the
Conservation Board delivered the CEAs to the Town Board who, as far as he can tell,
never did anything with them.
M. Hatch said he has another quote from Board member Lavine in which the same idea
is shared; the process wasn’t inclusive. He thinks that instead of deciding what Open
Space is, the Conservation Board should be thinking about how they can make the
process, at the beginning, inclusive.
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R. Ryan said before Glenview created their Open Space Plan (which the Conservation
Board is using as a guide) they did a questionnaire first. He suggested that the Board
start some outreach with a questionnaire which will get some of the Town interested.
C. Smith repeated that he feels that is a Town Board responsibility.
L. Lavine asked who the questionnaires would be sent to.
B. Prentiss pointed out that R. Ryan’s idea is completely opposite of an earlier
suggestion of having a member from each board get together to form a subcommittee
which may reduce the tension. He doesn’t think the outreach idea is going to work. He
believes in education but he doesn’t think that you can educate people that are already
predisposed to be against what we are doing. They don’t want to learn.
C. Smith doesn’t see any reason to rush with this and if the Town Board wants to do a
survey, then they can do that. The Town Board needs to take the lead.
L. Lavine said that it seems to her that ultimately everything was about the screw-up
with that mailing. The Conservation Board disagreed with her saying the negativity
started way before that. She said they were passing the CEAs and would have passed
more; the urgency was linked to fracking and that seemed to have faded as an
immediate threat. Now we can go back to business. The Town Board has Greg Sloan
instead of Steve Stelick now; it was S. Stelick’s motion that caused the Town Board to
be embarrassed that they screwed up with the mailing. She doesn’t think it is so
unapproachable. It was a major glitch.
C. Smith said that it was an honest mistake as he understands the situation, the mailing
went awry. It certainly became a political football that had nothing to do with the
Conservation Board.
L. Lavine said that last night, some of them went to a meeting held by Tompkins County
to a discussion about Open Space.
M. Hatch said that he likes the way they are doing it, holding discussions in various
towns to get people’s perspective. There was a lot of discussion and different opinions.
He feels that would be a good idea, to get different perspectives at the outset.
B. Beck pointed out that the County Planners have gotten a lot of information together
before the forums. They probably have previous plans and lots of documentation;
information that the Town of Dryden doesn’t have.
L. Lavine said that those at the meeting were talking about large goals.
C. Smith responded that the Conservation Board put together a definition of Open
Space, shared with the other Boards and got feedback from the Ag Committee but they
have gotten anything from the Planning Board.
M. Hatch stated that he would ask the Planning Board chair to put the discussion of
Open Space on the agenda. In terms of people putting together basic materials, we
have had a lot of discussion already regarding how space is treated in the
Comprehensive Plan. Some of it is already law in the Zoning Law and the Right to Farm
law so there is a basic foundation.
B. Beck said he would like to go back and look at the survey that was done about the
rural character of the Town. M. Hatch said that would be helpful for the Planning Board.
He remembers the last time the survey was done the consultant determined that the
citizens of this Town wanted it to be bucolic.
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C. Smith is in favor of a survey but pointed out that you are not going to get good
information unless you ask good questions. If the Town Board wants to hire someone to
create and conduct the survey, then we will have some guidance. He will be happy
to hold off on the plan until the Town Board decides what they want to do.
L. Lavine reiterated there was an artificial glitch last time and there is no problem going
back and doing it without too much change. We have a new board that includes Greg
(Sloan) who will be in favor of things on this side, even more so than Steve (Stelick).
The Town Board backtracked due to a stupid mistake. She doesn’t think that we should
see that as a sign they won’t succeed the next time.
B. Beck said that passing the CEAs is a legal process, even though they don’t have the
force of the law, that requires an official SEQR hearings and submission of information
to the DEC. That is different from what we are doing here. The CEAs were a more
formal process. We don’t have to go through that formality with the Open Space plan. At
this point, he doesn’t think that the Conservation Board should be taking the lead and
setting up public hearings.
Some of the members discussed the potential timing of getting public feedback. If the
public is involved from the beginning, then the plan can be created with their input. But if
the Open Space plan is put out to the public too soon, there won’t be enough
information for the public to comment on.
C. Smith believes that the CEAs required an extra step, SEQR, but instead of believing
those that understood the process, there was fear mongering and misinformation.
M. Hatch asked what the Boards are going to do with the definition of Open Space once
they have it; what is the next step?
B. Beck suggested that the Conservation Board will continue looking at the goals and
objectives in the Glenville plan and adjusting them to work for Dryden.
J. Sherman asked if a farmer with an open field sells or the ne xt generation inherits the
land, are they going to be forced to keep the field open or will they be permitted to plant
trees, etc.
C. Smith said he doesn’t believe see it as having that much force, it is a plan not a
regulation.
C. Schutt shared Supervisor Sumner’s comments from the Ag Committee that the Open
Space Plan will be part of the Comprehensive Plan and it is from that the Town Board
creates regulations.
J. Sherman doesn’t believe that the Town should tell a person how to take care of their
land.
B. Prentiss said that when the Conservation Board created the CEAs it was to ensure
that everything was looked at in a case by case basis. He doesn’t know how else they
can make it fair to everyone. He is troubled by the way the CEAs were met.
C. Smith suggested that we simply learn from past mistakes. He reiterated that he
wants the Town Board to take the lead.
M. Richmond said he wants to the TB to take the lead and take the lightening . The
Conservation Board took the lead with the CEAs and this time they don’t want to be the
lightening rod. He would like to go through the goals and objectives and then have
something to share with the other Boards. After that, the information should go to the
Town Board. He said there are politically charged elements in the Town that won’t work
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together and agreed that the Town Board has to take the lead. If they want to follow up
with a survey or open meeting, then that is up to them.
R. Ryan pointed out that the CEAs were objected to by the farmers. He suggested that
the Conservation Board needs to work closely with the farmers because that will be the
best way to get the Open Space plan moving. The farmers were the biggest adversaries
to the CEAs.
B. Beck agreed and hoped to work closely with the Ag Committee who can provide
feedback from farmers and landowners. Part of the difficulty with Open Space is that
some like it more than others. Farmers like open space when they are farming but
when they are not, they are more likely to sell to the highest bidder which may not mean
Open Space. If you are not committed to the rural character of the community, the
natural areas and open space then you are more likely to sell to the highest bidder.
He believes it is important to move forward with the Open Space plan despite
opposition. He understands that might make some people mad but for those that are
dedicated to preserving the rural characteristic of the Town, it is important.
J. Sherman pointed out that the Town can’t make a law that would prevent someone
from making a profit on their land. Farmland will sell for about $2000/acre but as
developable land, it could sell for $10,000/acre. Some kind of incentive would have to
be offered.
M. Hatch reiterated that starting at the bottom is the best. We need to get people on
board as early as possible and get their input. He pushed the idea that the public needs
to be involved.
B. Prentiss asked for clarification of the charge from the Town Board. Is the
Conservation Board supposed to take the lead on this?
C. Smith said that the Conservation Board is the lead board per the charge. He is
frustrated with the politics rather than cooperation and honest dialog among the citizens
of the Town.
The group held a discussion on how to reach the people: ideas included a town-wide
mailing, a public meeting, phone surveys, etc.
L. Lavine does not think it would be a good idea to do a questionnaire because unless
you spend a lot of money you won’t find something that everyone is going to think is fair
and valid. She thinks this Board represents the people’s interests and they have the
right to do like they did before with the CEAs which ended up screwed up because of a
glitch or several glitches. The process is inclusive in the way of meetings and we can
make what is happening clearer than it was under the previous planning department
leadership. There is no need to think that you have to take a step backwards.
J. Sherman questioned her thought that asking people what they would like to do with
their land was a step back.
L. Lavine responded that on paper, it is a very complicated thing to do. It is expensive
and complicated.
J. Sherman said that the Town Board wastes money on other things. What is wrong
with getting people’s opinions on their own land?
N. Munkenbeck said that many people have used the previous survey. It was very
valuable to the Board and represented citizens’ interests.
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The group discussed how they might have the survey done. M. Richmond has a contact
at Cornell through which the Board could potentially do the survey.
N Munkenbeck suggested that the Conservation Board write an article that could be put
in the shopper to give folks a heads up. Nancy agreed to write an article for the Board to
review at the next meeting.
C. Smith recommended a young lady who spoke at the last Town Board meeting might
be asked to write or edit the public information. It is important to get people interested.
He said the meetings have been open and he doesn’t think they should feel that they
are doing anything in secret. Most people don’t get involved unless they disagree and
rather than working together, they tend to misinform people or try to undermine the
process.
B. Beck discussed a “Build Out”. It shows current development of an area and then
what it can look like 2-3 generations later. What would happen if everything was left to
random forces? Can we build that into something that people can discuss ; what
happens if no one plans?
M. Hatch agreed that he would take the Open Space definition back to the Planning
Board and provide some feedback for the Conservation Board.
N. Munkenbeck said her understanding was that the Conservation Board would not
supersede the other boards but rather that all the boards need to send their information
back to the CB to organize.
Tompkins County EMC - Steve Bissen
The EMC is continuing to work on the UNAs and should have it done this fall. They are
going through all of UNAs. The original basis for a UNA might no longer exist, and
sometimes find new flora and fauna so the line designations are being adjusted.
He also shared some information on Solar Tompkins.
Ag riculture Advisory Committee – Craig Schutt
C. Schutt asked the Board to read the Planning Board and Ag Committee minutes. He
said that the minutes will provide a good idea of what the farmers are afraid of. He said
he FOILed the audio of the meeting and feels the minutes tamed down the discussion.
M. Hatch will be taking this information back to the Planning Board and he said it would
be useful to have someone there to comment on the areas of concern and indignation.
C. Schutt shared some of the comments that were unwelcome. M. Hatch recalls the
discussion as being about Ag and Markets Law and the question was raised regarding
whether Ag and Markets trumps property rights of people who live next to farms.
Other Boards and Commissions
No reports
Old Business
Sign for Campbell Meadows - No report, G. Dodici was absent
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Dryden Trail and Preserve Guide – Rick Ryan
B. Prentiss and R. Ryan meet with Tom Knipe, Tompkins County Tourism Planning.
The idea they came away with was a survey of the property owners along the existing
Jim Schug Trail and landowners that will be affected by the right of way use. That will
gain support and show how many people use the Trail. It might leverage funding as
well.
B. Prentiss suggested that one of the questions should be how long have they lived
there. People that lived along the trail initially were not in favor of it but now they
appreciate it.
New Business
The Jim Schug Trail
B. Prentiss said that Rick Young took B. Beck on a truck ride all the way down the trail
and then they met on Keith Lane a few days later. C. Smith, B. Beck, M. Richmond and
B. Prentiss took Mr. Young down the trail toward Chaffee Road. There is a lot of
damage in that area. Mr. Young appeared very amenable and seemed to understand
the members’ concerns. Mr. Young asked for a directive on how to mow, etc. He
believed that there may be one out there but Larry Carpenter (former DPW/Highway
employee) said there wasn’t one. Mr. Carpenter supports what Mr. Young is doing now;
he feels that once every four years, the trees, shoulders and di tches should be chopped
back. B. Prentiss said that the Conservation Board can continue to pressure Mr. Young
and create a set of guidelines that everyone can accept.
M. Hatch suggested that sending Mr. Young to some kind of training to learn best
management practices might be the best option. B. Prentiss pointed out that it isn’t just
Mr. Young but his employees as well.
C. Schutt said Mr. Young might be putting the Town at risk with storm water laws.
M. Hatch commented on the fact that Mr. Young went past his house and re -dug the
ditch but didn’t put anything down to prevent run off. He was told there wasn’t any
money in the Highway budget to pay for seeding.
C. Schutt said that County Soil and Water has done a lot of hydro seeding in this Town
and there should be money available for them to hydro seed this year.
M. Hatch wants to send a message to the Town Board strongly advising them to send
Mr. Young to training and put together a best practices guide.
N. Munkenbeck tried to explain to M. Hatch that the Town Board doesn’t have the
power to tell Mr. Young what to do. He is an elected official and has his own budget.
M. Richmond feels that Mr. Young is willing to accept suggestions and we need to work
with him. He seems to be amendable to guidelines.
B. Prentiss said he was amendable to having the Conservation Board pointing out trees
and plants with a specific purpose. He is willing to learn the value.
B. Beck said that Supervisor Sumner, Cl. Joe Solomon and Cl. Jason Leifer were
invited to join the Conservation Board members when they met with Rick a couple of
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weeks ago. None of them were in attendance. Mr. Beck feels that at least one Town
Board member should be involved.
C. Schutt said Mr. Young is required to take storm water training before doing any road
or ditch work.
L. Lavine feels it is important to remember that Mr. Young is an elected official without
any professional training for his position. She would like people to get pictures of the
damage.
M. Hatch said that this isn’t a court of law and we don’t need to present the photos and
say he isn’t doing a good job. We need to send him to training and contact Soil and
Water to find out about the hydro seeding.
M. Richmond offered the following motion:
In the absence of established guidelines, the Conservation Board will develop candidate
guidelines for the management of the Town’s trails. The guidelines will define issues
such as the width of the trail that is mowed and the preservation of natural and /or rare
flora and fauna. Further, the Conservation Board will work with the Dryden Recreation
and Youth Commission to create guidelines that will eventually be incorporated into the
Town’s Comprehensive Plan.
C. Smith seconded the motion and the motion was passed unanimously.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 9:50PM.
Respectfully Submitted,
Erin A. Bieber
Deputy Town Clerk