HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-05-10Dryden Ag Committee
May 10, 2017
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Dryden Agriculture Advisory Committee
May 10, 2017
Members Present: Evan Carpenter (Chair), Kim LaMotte, Jeremy Sherman, and Brian
Magee
Liaisons Present: John Kiefer, Planning Board, Craig Schutt, Conservation Board,
Dan Lamb, Town Board
Guests: Monika Roth, Cornell Cooperative Extension and Joe Osmeloski, Conservation
Board
The meeting was called to order at 7:35PM.
J. Kiefer - It is apparent you have done a lot of work. Now when I read it, it sounds like
Dryden. I think you turned a corner on this.
M. Roth - There are still things that I want to work on; more description around the ag
businesses that are here. We didn’t even mention Empire Livestock. I am also thinking
about what is unique about Dryden and you have a lot of research land associated
with colleges. Every time you talk to horse people (and you have a lot in the Town),
they want to buy hay so it is a good market. I feel like when you talk to them, they are
here because Cornell is here. The characteristic of the town that the plan still doesn’t
convey is the fact that agriculture is concentrated and once you get into the hills south
of here, there isn’t any dairy type of agriculture. The plan needs to convey that the
lands south of Route 13 are forests and the Ellis highlands.
J. Kiefer - It is almost like there are two Drydens. The southwest part of the Town is in
the Ithaca School District and there isn’t a lot of farming going on down there. The
Planning Board has talked about this, I don’t think they associate themselves with the
Village of Dryden. They have their Ellis Hollow Fair and stuff like that and we have the
ag fair. It is a challenge for the Town to pull that together.
M. Roth - It is so spread out and you have the geography getting in the way.
J. Kiefer - If there are ways in the plan that we can create links, I think any place we
can do that is good.
M. Roth - The southern part is primarily sheep and horses. I don’t know if there is
much forest activity going on?
K. LaMotte - The state forests and Reeds used to be there. Cornell and Mt. Pleasant.
M. Roth - I would like to go through what you have at this point and you can keep
revising. I am looking for obvious omissions, misstatements, etc. I would like to go
through it one by one, person by person.
J. Kiefer pointed out the places he noticed issues. On page 13, the section on water,
do most of the farmers have wells?
Dryden Ag Committee
May 10, 2017
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C. Schutt - Most of them are from wells.
J. Kiefer - From wells, we can talk about the quality of wells, whether there is enough
water to support the farming enterprise and then Bolton Point can be a footnote but
then only to point out that Bolton Point doesn’t support much agriculture.
M. Roth - The reason this is in here (the infrastructure) is a profile of the Town of
Dryden, not agriculture. For example, in an ag district, the big issue is always water
and sewer extensions so the point of putting this in here is to know where the current
water supply is. If, for example, there is a proposed water and sewer extension into an
ag district, that is where Ag and Markets get involved with a review process. It is more
of a description of what exists in the Town but maybe it should make more reference
to how it impacts agriculture.
J. Kiefer - If you look at map 2, the percentage supplied by the different water supplies
and the amount of community/public is a small percentage. You also made a good
point about being careful about where we extend the municipal supply because
development follows.
M. Roth - Right now we are having an issue because the Town of Lansing is good at
sneaking in water extensions. It will affect about 12 farms because of the land that is
rented, etc. It is going to create some in-field development that is not there right now.
J. Kiefer - If we know about the quality and quantity of the water supply that supports
the agricultural community, this would be a good place to put that.
M. Roth - How is it, in terms of farmers, what is your feeling about water supply and
wells?
J. Sherman - All of the water is different. The water at Stuttle’s is terrible. Freeville is
full of sulfur. They just dug a new well on Gee Hill and got a little sulfur. Up on Simms
Hill, the water is awesome, good and lots of it.
M. Roth - Is there an aquifer in Dryden?
C. Schutt - Virgil Creek - There is a big aquifer in the Virgil Creek basin that goes
down Route 38 and extends into Cortland County.
J. Kiefer - Isn’t that the aquifer the Village is tapping into? Yes.
M. Roth - Is there a need in the future that the farmers will want to tap into public
water?
Yes, if the option was there and the wells ran dry.
M. Roth - Has there been a push by residential areas for water?
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May 10, 2017
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J. Kiefer - I have heard that there are a couple of places that folks have had trouble
getting water out of their well and some have expressed concern about stress on the
local supply with increased development. There is a water study being done and the
results will be helpful when the project is completed.
J. Kiefer - On page 18 - The 14,836 acres owned or rented by farmers includes
Cornell. He wanted that to be clearer. On page 19 the third line down should be
changed to “the balance (49%) is farmed by the owner.”
J. Kiefer - On page 20, what is a “shared food processing facility”?
M. Roth - It is a facility that might be operated by a non-profit and they create
commercial kitchen space and rent it out. Although there seems to be a lot of demand
the Groton Food Hub is no longer operational. The area on Johnson Road that
includes the Cortland Produce facility and the That Indian Drink facility could be built
up with more agricultural uses, maybe create a food corridor.
J. Kiefer - On page 22, Risks to farming operations - increasing costs - he suggested
adding regulatory compliance to the list of increasing cost factors.
J. Kiefer - On page 23 - the plan mentions that most of the start-up farms are locating
in the Town of Ulysses. Why?
M. Roth - I don’t know but there are a lot of small, quirky farms popping up in the
Sheldon Road area.
J. Kiefer - On page 24 - the first statement under “Other ways to Encourage the
Continuation of Farming” mentions slowing down in farming areas but the third
statement mentions zoning changes so farmers can sell smaller lots. The two seem
opposed to each other.
K. LaMotte - On page 4 - she recommended removing the part about the best soils
being in proximity of Dryden and Freeville. The soils can be radically different from
one field to the next.
M. Roth - The point of the comment about the proximity is due to the potential conflict
between expansion around the villages and farm land. Most of the farms are located
near the two villages.
K. LaMotte - On page 17 - in the box that has the practices and infrastructure, some
of the numbers don’t appear correct.
M. Roth - The numbers all came directly from Tompkins County Soil and Water. The
difference may be that additional systems may have been installed without going
through TC Soil and Water.
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May 10, 2017
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K. LaMotte - What is the difference between a manure handling system and a manure
transfer system.
M. Roth - These are types of protections practiced by farms to preserve water quality.
The Committee decided that they prefer the numbers not appear in the box - they can
be identified as examples of ways the farmers are reducing or preventing water
pollution.
K. LaMotte - The Ag Assessment numbers on page 21, the amount for the McLean Fire
District don’t seem right - they seem low. M. Roth said the numbers came directly
from Tompkins County Assessment.
S. Foote - On page 23 Land Rented vs Owned - the first sentence states that ”farmers
are uncertain about whether the land they are renting today will be available in the
future.” Something should be added here about the potential solar farms in Dryden.
What is going to happen if a farmer rents to a solar company and the tax assessment
changes to industrial? We are not going to be the ones here then.
D. Lamb doesn’t believe that will happen. The land will be taxed the same but the
solar company will have a PILOT.
E. Carpenter - The concern is the land use will be changed from agricultural and you
are only paying the ag value and the solar company is paying the industrial increase
on that. The concern is that 20 years from now, the assessment office changes the use
from agriculture to industrial use and thus even though the lease says the solar
company will pay the industrial increase, once they are gone, the farmer is stuck with
a higher land use tax.
J. Sherman - Why wouldn’t they change the use, the solar panels will have been there
20 years.
E. Carpenter - The land now has a history of industrial use.
D. Lamb said that won’t happen because it is not a permanent reorientation of the
land.
The Committee pointed out that a house isn’t permanent either and we can’t say what
will happen in 20-30 years.
D. Lamb - A building is more permanent than the solar installations. The solar
installations will be removed at the end of the lease, they become obsolete. They are
required to remove them; that is in the law that we passed. They would no longer be
there; they are temporary structures, that is why I don’t think assessment would
change.
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May 10, 2017
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E. Carpenter - It doesn’t change now when dominion puts a gas line across your
property. Dominion should be paying taxes for the pipeline infrastructure that is in
the ground. We still farm it on top at ag value.
D. Lamb - I think they do. They are the biggest tax payer in the Town.
J. Kiefer - That is something you need to put in the agreement with the solar developer
that in the future, the assessed value of the land changed and went above the
surrounding ag land assessment, that they would be responsible for that.
S. Foote - That is my biggest concern. They want to sign you on the front side with a
dollar bill for twenty years and who knows what is going to happen in twenty years
with the assessment situation.
D. Lamb - I think that is a valid point and we should be aware that is out there.
S. Foote - It is taking land away from agricultural operations. Someone who is not
farm oriented, the amount that they are quoted on the front side is “wow”.
D. Lamb - Are you suggesting we should be aware of putting restrictions, telling land
owners as a policy that farm land shouldn’t be diverted.
S. Foote - Prime farmland, we need it. We are short on it around here as it is and it is
only going to get shorter. They are coming in and offering the big money. With the gas,
it was underground, it wasn’t a big deal but now it is taking top soil.
J. Sherman - I heard that the Planning Board passed a resolution for a moratorium for
nothing more than 2 mw for six months.
D. Lamb - We would lose if we put that in place and were taken to court, which we
would be. Our lawyers have said that would be a guaranteed loser.
K. LaMotte - What would you be losing?
D. Lamb - We can’t change our laws in the middle of a process, right now.
C. Schutt - That wasn’t what she (Susan Brock, Town Attorney) said that night at the
Planning Board meeting. Tom Hatfield (Planning Board member) asked her directly “is
there any legal action that we would be putting the town in any danger” and she said
on what, these proposed projects? She then said no, not at all because they haven’t
gotten far enough down the line. They have not been approved yet, they haven’t
started any construction…if they had started construction, then yes, you cannot do it.
The position they are in right now, you have every right to do it.
D. Lamb - Then she may have done more research because by the time that was
interpreted to me, that’s not what she said.
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C. Schutt - That is what she told the public. I wish the public would get told the same
things that you guys get told.
D. Lamb - She was put on the spot asked to answer a question and I am sure she did
the best she could.
J. Kiefer - I think a way this group can participate in a positive way going forward, you
guys have the greatest knowledge of how land is being used and the what the land is
like and where are the places that would be best to place the solar facilities that would
least impact the ag community.
D. Lamb - There are lands that aren’t being developed for one reason or another that
are not prime farm land. The area we are looking now, no one is farming it and no one
is talking about it.
C. Schutt - By the cemetery they are farming it. That’s being farmed, they had soy
beans on it last year so it can’t be too bad soil.
D. Lamb - I didn’t say it was bad soil; we are talking about two projects here.
J. Kiefer - The point is that it looks like the developers will continue to come, the state
continues to support solar as an effective way for local municipalities to deal with
climate change. It is going to take up space and if I look at the way the Town is put
together, this is a committee that can participate in a meaningful way. I think this is
only the beginning.
D. Lamb - We have to be careful that we are speaking consistently throughout the
document. There are numerous points here where it said don’t tell us what to do with
land, don’t impose regulations. This sounds like it might be a regulation, saying that
we are not going to allow this type of land use in certain areas. We have to be
consistent when talking about putting in new rules.
C. Schutt - I think it is interesting that they whole thing is that there is no place else
in Dryden to have these installations but these two places. I know of at least five other
places that have been contacted. That is such a false narrative that is being fed. Why
are these companies coming to these other places if they aren’t acceptable?
D. Lamb - We are getting on a tangent here. To be fair, that question has been
answered numerous times and it is on record. You know the answer, you may not like
the answer but it has been answered.
C. Schutt - I don’t think it has because it has been proven wrong because of all these
other people that are being approached.
D. Lamb - They are smaller facilities.
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May 10, 2017
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C. Schutt - That is what the Planning Board said, let’s go with 2 mw for six months
while we have more time to look at the situation. That was their resolution.
S. Foote - Was the original plan in the Town of Dryden two mw sites? That was the
original plan that you came up with, right? When you decided solar was a good thing
in Dryden?
D. Lamb - Yes.
S. Foote -To get it in over there, you did multiple parcels of two mw.
D. Lamb - To be clear, we didn’t. This was something that was brought to us by the
developer.
S. Foote - You went along with it.
D. Lamb - We didn’t go along with it. We are just doing due diligence reviewing this
project.
S. Foote - You can understand why they see a way around 2mw, to let 16-18 mw in
that area and make an exception.
D. Lamb - As the developer has answered since this has come up several times, this is
how the State envisions large scale solar developments to work because they provide
the support for these projects in 2 mw increments.
J. Kiefer - That was the thinking, that the ordinance would be consistent with State
law. Combining adjacent parcels is allowed by the State.
D. Lamb - It is happening all over the state. This is not an anomaly.
M. Roth - The main thing is that solar needs to be mentioned in the plan. As a key
concern, you guys are being approached by the companies and it is an issue that
farmers need to stay on top of. They need to be aware of how it impacts agricultural
lands.
D. Lamb - It should include that they should seek legal counsel before signing
anything.
M. Roth - We can put that as a recommendation at the end.
C. Schutt - It can be listed as an opportunity or a threat.
M. Roth - It was not addressed in the plan but it will be included.
J. Kiefer - On page 6, the second bullet under Priority Recommendations, recommends
“enforcing local ordinances …such as storm water regulations…” .
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May 10, 2017
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C. Schutt - I understood this to mean that storm water regulations should be enforced
so as to not negatively impact a farm. For example, allowing storm water to flow across
into a field. The storm water regulations state that you should not increase the
amount of water being discharged onto a neighboring property beyond the normal
flow.
M. Roth - That statement can be clarified. It has a lot in one bullet which may be
making it hard to understand.
K. LaMotte - On page 5 - “scattered throughout the town with the largest
concentration being north of the villages of Dryden and Freeville.” Directly north of
Freeville is not the best soils.
M. Roth - It is hard to use generalizations. You need to look at a map. If you look at a
soils map, maybe it is better not to use words. The map is included in the back of the
plan.
J. Kiefer - We will be putting this on the Town’s webpage. Will these maps be clickable
so you can blow up big ones on the computer so you can see them.
M. Roth - I don’t know how they were transmitted to us. I think they are pdfs so you
can zoom in.
J. Kiefer - That would be good because they are small in the text.
M. Roth - They are in the appendix as bigger maps but to see them it is better to be
able to zoom.
The Committee discussed the areas that had the best farm land and ultimately
determined that the best soils follow Fall Creek.
D. Lamb - On page 5, under Priority Recommendations, I take it everyone of these has
a back up in the report somewhere?
M. Roth - They came from the meetings and surveys that the Ag Committee did which
are attached in the back of the plan.
D. Lamb - I was looking for where Critical Environmental Areas are addressed in the
report. I have flipped through a couple of times and haven’t found anything about
them.
M. Roth - That would have come from feedback from surveys and I don’t have access
to them here (at the Town Hall).
D. Lamb - As a Board member that would kind of pop and it looks like a pretty strong
recommendation. We would want some more information about that.
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C. Schutt - They stopped the CEAs but last time I checked, the ones that the Town did
pass were supposed to be rescinded but they are still on the DEC website.
D. Lamb - That was before my time. I take they were not very popular.
C. Schutt - You notice how many people came to the solar meetings? That many, or
more, came to the CEA meetings.
D. Lamb - Were half in favor and half against? No.
D. Lamb - So this “legal pathway for non-citizens”, that is kind of interesting. What are
you talking about there? Immigration reform?
J. Kiefer - The large farms are dependent on immigrant labor. I am pleased to see this
show up in here because it is an important thing. As far as the CEAs, it would be good
if we can say what the concerns of the ag community about CEAs. That should be in
there.
D. Lamb - I would want to know and when my colleagues or anyone reading this will
want to get educated on this issue.
M. Roth - It came up in the survey and it should be included in the key concerns
voiced by farmers. It wasn’t referenced as a key concern.
D. Lamb - If it is time for the Town Board to pass a resolution about immigration
reform, we can certainly do that and send it to our representatives.
D. Lamb worked through the plan pointing out grammatical, spelling, etc errors.
C. Schutt - Somewhere in the plan where it talks about the good practices that the
farmers are doing, it needs to be stated that there are 73.3 acres along streams
protected through the CREP program. I got the number from Farm Services. Fencing
was put up and allowed filled with trees and shrubs to prevent farm animals from
getting to the stream. There are sometimes bridges built across for machinery and
animals.
S. Foote - On page 35, the prime soils definition “the best combination of physical and
chemical characteristics”. Is lime fertilizer meant to be a chemical? Is that meant to be
a chemical thing? Is there a better word? Is it chemicals for weed prevention?
J. Sherman - It should be minerals.
M. Roth - In the zoning, I assume you guys read that (from George Frantz)?
K. LaMotte - Yes, but we weren’t happy. He was supposed to do a rewrite.
M. Roth - I can ask him to do that. Did you give him feedback on what you had issues
about?
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May 10, 2017
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C. Schutt - Didn’t you want him to include some of what Ag and Markets listed when
they responded to the zoning?
D. Lamb - Has the issue of Conservation Easements come up in discussions recently?
Did Jason mention that at the last meeting? We were approached by the County
Planning Commissioner to make sure we were getting the word out that there is a
program with state funding, $200,000/year, for natural infrastructure. It basically
means that if you can dedicate a certain area and get a conservation easement and
keep farming on it, 20 acres or more, you can get some compensation.
J. Kiefer - This is different than the PDR program?
Yes, it is new.
J. Sherman - what kind of restrictions?
D. Lamb - you can’t develop it.
M. Roth - I remember hearing about it but I can do a little more research.
E. Carpenter - Isn’t it a lease deal as opposed to an “in perpetuity”?
M. Roth - Yes, it is about 2 years old and it was convoluted. It sounds like they should
have a meeting about that program for municipalities to give everyone an update;
invite the State guys to explain it.
D. Lamb - This is about protecting water sources, Fall Creek flows into Cayuga Lake
which is drinking water and so the idea is to protect that through non-development
easements.
M. Roth - That could be a generalized recommendation to keep up with these new
programs and trying to promote them to Town farmers, maybe hold some meetings
about it. I think that is a function of this committee and the point of being active and
trying help the farm community looking for these opportunities as they come along;
there is funding here and there, we did an ag energy meeting last winter, and the
southern tier ag enhancement funding we had quite a few farms apply for that. We try
to get the word out and it is helpful to have ag committees because it helps to get the
information out.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 9PM.
Respectfully Submitted,
Dryden Ag Committee
May 10, 2017
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Erin A. Bieber
Deputy Town Clerk