HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-11-01 0/100
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1
TOWN OF DRYDEN
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
NOVEMBER 1 , 1994
AGENDA : 7 : 00 Executive session with ZBA attorney Randy Marcus .
7 : 30 Peter and Ann Martin of 630 Snyder Hill Road , Ithaca
are requesting permission to construct a replacement
detached private garage and storage structure closer
than the RB Zoning District requirement of 70 feet
from the center of Snyder Hill Road . Applicant
appeals Section 703 . 1 RB Zoning District .
7 : 45 Patricia Schlecht of P . O . Box 1108 Dryden , New York
is requesting permission to divide a conforming MA
Zone lot into two non - conforming lots and is
appealing Sections 1206 . 5 of the MA Zoning District
and General Regulations 500 . 3 of the Dryden Town
Zoning Ordinance .
• MEMBERS PRESENT : Acting Chairman , Mark Varvayanis ; Joseph Jay ,
Alan LaMotte ; and Atty . Randy Marcus .
Also present but not limited to : Edward Hooks , Patricia Schlecht ,
George Schlecht , Geneve Sopp , Don Sopp , Ronald Roberts , Charles
Hatfield , Peter Martin , Mark Ashton , Clint Cotterill , Leona
Cotterill , and Henry Slater .
The meeting was , < called to order by Acting Chairman Mark
Varvayanis at 7 : 45 pm . Joseph Jay moved to approve the minutes of
September 6 , 1994 with additions and corrections as noted by the
members present . The motion was second by Alan LaMotte and
unanimously approved .
PUBLIC HEARING FOR PETER AND ANN MARTIN
Mr . Varvayanis stated that Peter and Ann Martin are requesting a
variance to Section 703 . 1 of the Zoning Ordinance . They want to
build a 24 ' x 25 ' rectangular detached garage less than 70 feet
from the center line of the road .
• The Chai r noted that thi s i s an area vari ance i n a RB zone and read
the criteria the board must consider in granting an area variance
as follows :
1
Upon an appeal from a decision or determination of the
administrative official charged with the enforcement of such
ordinance or local law to grant an area variances , as defined
herein .
In making its determination the Zoning Board of Appeals shall take
into consideration the benefit to the applicant if the variance is
granted as weighed against the detriment to the health , safety , and
welfare of the neighborhood or community by such grant . In making
such determination the board shall also consider : whether an
undesirable change will be produced in the character of the
neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created
by granting of the area variance ; whether the benefit sought by
the applicant can be achieved by some other method , feasible for
the applicant to pursue , other than an area variance ; whether the
requested area variance is substantial ; whether the proposed
variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or
environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district , and
whether the alleged difficulty was self created .
M . Varvayanis : Part of our usual procedure is that a certified
letter be sent to the chairman . Unfortunately the
chairmanship switched very recently to me . I never
got a certified letter . I was wondering , did you
send one to me ?
P . Martin : Quite a long time ago , a month .
( There was some discussion about whether a certified letter was
actually sent and to whom . Also whether it was necessary to
receive the letter . As there was proof of filing the Board
determined to proceed with the hearing ) .
M . Varvayanis : We have a couple of letters I would like to read
into the record . The first is from Michael J .
Pitchell : " Dear Sir : I am a neighbor and property
owner within 500 feet of the proposed site where
Peter and Ann Martin are requesting permission to
construct a replacement detached private garage and
storage structure closer than the required 70 feet
from the center of Snyder Hill Road . Martins
premisses is one of the nicer home sites on Snyder
Hill Road . The Martin site is a credit to our
community . The replacement of the garage and
storage structure will enhance the area . I urge the
Board to approve the application . I am unable to
• attend the hearing and request that my unsolicited
letter be read into the record in my absence . "
2
There is another one from Margaret Morse : " My
husband and I wi 11 not be attendi ng the November 1 st
M . Varvayanis : hearing regarding the property at 360 Snyder Hill
( cont ) Road . However we would like to say that we are not
opposed to the construction of a new structure on
the proposed site . "
Is there anything you would like to add to your
application ?
Peter Martin : I am Peter Martin of 630 Snyder Hill Road . This is
Mark Ashton who designed the structure . We would
be happy to answer any questions the Board has based
on our application for the variance . The story is
a very simple one . We ' ve lived , my wife and I , in
the house since 1980 . When we bought it it did not
have a garage . When we bought it , it had , and still
has a barn across the road , and really quite close
to the road , that we use for storage . The
precipitating event was the discovery this spring
that the barn was structurally unsound and had to
come down . When we learned that , we realized that
we weren ' t as young as we were in 1980 , and that a
garage might be a good solution .
Essentially the garage will go , roughly in relation
to the road and the house where there is gravel
parking today , and has been since they built the
house . There are detailed plans submitted with the
application . As I said , we ' d be happy to answer any
questions .
M . Varvayanis : Does anyone have any questions ?
J . Jay : Are the neighboring houses up and down the street
conforming ?
Peter Martin : It ' s a bit hard to talk about neighboring houses
because there is a lot of separation between our
house going in both directions . Going immediately
west you come to a cemetery and then a the white
prim church and then a small house . Going the other
direction you pass a bottom land that we own before
you come to another property on our side of the
road . The principle non - conforming structure there
is our barn .
M . Varvayanis : Which would be coming down .
Randy Marcus : Could you explain the time table that you envision
for the demolition o the old structure CUr�kthe
constructLa%vN 71&L /TraAm- z
M1
3
i
Peter Martin : Certainly , new up before old down we need to move
things from one to the other . Mark , do you what to
give them the timetable on the new up ?
Mark Ashton : We would like to get it built before Christmas .
Peter Martin : And then the Barn would come down in the spring .
HEARING OPEN FOR PUBLIC COMMENT
M . Varvayanis Does anybody else have a comment about this ?
Questions ?
A . LaMotte : Do we have any communications , the Town Engineer ,
that should be entered ?
M Varvayanis : The Town Engineer has looked at this site on October
17th and the proposed setback and garage is not a
problem with _ traffic safety or future road work
within thep,84e,rof way of Snyder Hill Road .
I ' l l close the hearing on thi s and we ' 11 di scuss now
another case and then we ' ll deliberate later and
vote this evening . You can either wait if you ' re
interested or you can call Henry in the morning and
hear the decision . Thank you .
PUBLIC HEARING FOR PETER AND ANN MARTIN CLOSED
PUBLIC HEARING FOR GEORGE SCHLECHT ( 8v00pm )
M . Varvayanis : Now we are going to reconsider an application from
Patricia Schlecht requesting to divide the property
into two separate lots which would not conform to
the required area .
Is requesting permission to divide a conforming MA
Zone lot into two non - conforming lots and is
appealing Section 1206 . 5 of the MA Zoning District
and General Regulations 500 , 3 of the Dryden Town
Zoning Ordinance . Again this is an area variance
• and the things we consider are the same as in our
first case this evening .
4
•
M . Varvayanis : Would someone like to make a motion to include the
minutes and all existing records we have into this ?
JOSEPH JAY MOVED TO INCLUDE THE MINUTES FROM THE SEPTEMBER 6 , 1994
MEETING .
Randy Marcus : I would a friendly amendment , not that the
existing Minutes but that the entirety of the record
on September 6th . hearing and deliberations , lI) e.
VA
`tonight ' s record.OC�
Am
ALAN LAMOTTE SECOND THE MOTION ' =rf4 @rleY me(
T'
VOTE YES ( 3 ) M . VARVAYANIS ; J . JAY ; and A . LAMOTTE .
NO ( 0 ) ABSTAINED ( 0 )
M . Varvayanis : George , is there anything you would like to add ?
G . Schlecht : I ' ve looked at the minutes and some sections you
. read what you say and say , " that sounded pretty
good " and then other sections you say , " is that
me ? " . But by in large I thought that the minutes
reflected the meeting less the body english that
can ' t be transcribed . I see no reason to
( . . introduce more into the record ? . . . ) .
HEARING OPEN FOR PUBLIC COMMENT
M . Varvayanis : Does anybody else have any thing they ' d like to
comment on ?
D . Sopp : . We are here to find out what your decision is going
to be on this . I don ' t know if I should speak
before your decision or after your decision , I don ' t
know when . I am not familiar with the rules . Or
if it ' s valid for me to question what might be the
decision that wou ''ld effect what we might want to do
with our property . In a similar fashion what George
request .
Randy Marcus : Technically this is the open public -= - f the
meeting in which anyone from the public has the
opportunity to comment . As a technical matter once
the public hearing is closed , the public doesn ' t
have any right to provide any further input . So
5
R . Marcus : now would really be the time to speak . However ,
( cont ) comments should be directed toward this application
and if the comments are really questions about other
things that might be more appropriate for after the
decision . 5*The Board will be willing to entertain
that , other questions that would be valid as well .
D . Sopp : In the previous meeting you indicated that you
granted the variance . Then the notice that we just
received , it stated that the decision that you made
would stand on this variance would not be applicable
in the future on any similar requests . Are you
setting a precedent and then deny that precedent
for future or similar requests ?
M . Varvayanis : Well , a precedent and a precedent . There are a lot
of extenuating circumstances . Not everybody can
come i n with any piece of property and start drawing
lines and dividing it .
Randy Marcus : Mark , I ' d like to respond as well .
Just as a general matter , and it ' s really nothing
to do with the Schlecht ' s question or any other
property . The way that the State Law works in
Mconnection with granting variances 4he State Law
is very explicit . It comes right out and says that
Zoning variances are not supposed to be precedent
setting the way a decision in a court case would be
precedent setting . In other words , if a court said
Party X is right , ' under these particular facts . And
then two years later the same exact , or very similar
facts arose , and somebody else came to court , the
Court would be bound to follow that previous
decision . That is basically the meaning of
precedent , and it does work in every case that
Court makes a decision . It is supposed to be
precedent . It is supposed to be the basis for
future decisions on those same facts .
The decisions that the Zoning Board makes are very
different for a couple of reasons . The Zoning Board
is an Administrative body as opposed to a court
which is a Judicial body . I only point that out not
to get technical but to point out the fact that the
law works a different way when you get in an
administrative decision vs a judicial decision . The
administrative decision that a Zoning Board makes
is supposed to be tied very specifically to the
particular facts that are presented in a particular
variance request . The Zoning Board is specifically
told by its State Law , that you are not supposed to
use your decisions , your past decisions as
6
• Rand Marcus :: precedence for future decisions . That each case
( con ' t ) has to be evaluated on its own facts .
One of the reasons for that , that some of the Courts
have explained in trying to describe that
requirement , is that every piece of property is
unique . That is one of the things about property
that can ' t be disputed . Because of the location ,
the shape , size , or anything else you might care to
mention about any particular piece of property . It
is different from every other piece of property .
The courts have tried to explain that when a board
like the Zoning Board makes a decision about one
piece of property that decision is supposed to
relate to that piece of property given it ' s size and
shape and location and use and zoning district and
every other factor . So that when another piece of
property comes in they should wipe the slate clean
and look at that next piece of property on account
of its features and not on account of what
similarities it might have to some other decision
that the Board may have made one meeting earlier ,
or a year earlier , or five years earlier . The
Zoning Boards decisions are supposed to be under
applicable state . law stand alone decisions relative
to each particular application at the time it is
made .
There is some real , I think clear logic to that
requirement because in an area variance basically
what the Board is deciding is how the request is
going to impact the surroundings , the neighborhood .
And that can change a lot as time goes by .
If the Zoning Board were making the decision on an
area variance ten years ago the surroundings may
have been very different and the decision would have
had to have been very different . The impact would
have been different , Ten years later they can ' t use
that old decision as a basis for making new
decisions . That ' s one of the reasons why the courts
have been emphatic about Zoning Board decisions not
being precedent set .
G . Sopp : ( referring when her son talked with the Zoning
Officer ) . . . . af ter' he went in though , to make an
application for the same size lot and . said ' don ' t
bother because it doesn ' t comply ' . So . . . . decided
it wasn ' t going to work and then we find there is
an application for the very same thing :
7
H . Slater : That is sort of correct . What happened was , Don
came in my office and wanted to made an application
to build a structure on a portion of similar sized
lot that already had two improvements on it in the
same zoning district . I told him it would require
a variance . He asked me what I thought the chances
of that were . Expressing my own opinion , I thought
slim to none . Mrs . Schlecht applied for a variance
to split her lot , not to build something on it , so
there is some inconsistency with what Mrs . Sopp
says . But there were two different approaches . Of
which I wouldn ' t have had any authority to give a
building permit because they didn ' t have a variance
to build on that lot which was substandard , and It
would have made it substandard further than it
already was .
Joseph Jay : If I understand this correctly , we are talking about
a possible thing down the road . I think we should
be talking about the Schlecht case . I know Mr .
Chair it ' s up to you but this is a different
situation . If you want to find out what we base our
decision on then the findings I believe , are
available to the public . Find out what the criteria
• are , the five things , and why we made our decision
in which way .
Don Sopp : In the announcement it appeared to say , don ' t bother
asking for this type of variance down the road .
After retrieving a copy of the documentation the Board members
present did not interpret it the same way Mr . Sopp did .
H . Slater : This is what he received . This is what we sent to
all the neighboring and adjoining property owners ,
inviting them to come here to the hearing . This is
telling what the ordinance requires so you can
understand why the applicant is here . This isn ' t
telling you to not bother to do anything . This is
explaining what the ordinance currently requires .
That is what they are appealing . That is what you
have a copy of . Everybody on this list got that
letter . That is the private property notice .
Don Sopp : Acknowledged he misinterpreted the notice .
H . Slater : Well don ' t read between the lines , just read what
is there .
8
A . LaMotte : Could I pose another question to Mr . Slater ? That
is relevant to the answer to Mr . Sopp ' s question on
his statement . Any plans of his in that , same MA
Zone would have to go for site plan review . Is that
correct ?
H . Slater : He ' d have to apply for a variance before he could
do anything because his lot is already utilized to
what MA Zone permits . The lot they have , they
originally had three parcels A , B . and C . Which
were where a lot of people park for O ' Briens , where
O ' Briens is and where Dunkin Donuts currently are .
Don Sopp : Three separate lots .
H . Slater : There were three separate lots . Sometime prior to
the existence of the MA Zone being formed , they
combined them into one lot , Into one , one acre lot .
A . LaMotte ? Who is they ?
H . Slater : The Sopps ,
Henry Slater suggested that the inquiries The Sopps were making
were not relevant to tonight ' s hearing and should be further
discussed at a later date .
R . Marcus : One thing that is clear , if I understand right
Henry , . .
H . Slater : I did not give them permission to build another
building .
R . Marcus : Which gives them the right to apply for a variance .
H . Slater : To go see the Zoning Board , right .
They asked me my opinion , and my opinion was
unfavorable . But again it was only my opinion .
M . Varvayanis : Getting back to Patricia Schlecht ' s case . Does
anybody have any comments or questions ?
Ed Hooks : I do have a couple of comments as you might suspect
that I would . As I read this , the issue on this
reconsideration remains the same as the issue
originally . Which is can Mr . or Mrs . Schlecht
borrow to buil', d commercial property without
splitting this lot ? Can she obtain the financing ?
9
Ed ,Hooks , I think from the threshold question that I would
( con ' t ) di spute the fi nal fact that you made to suggest that
this is not a substantial variance . I think clearly
it is . You ' ve got a 50% variance is what you are
essentially talking about . That is a substantial ,
I think , variance by any definition . And I don ' t
think that , that is altered by virtue of the fact
that there was site plan review with respect to the
property done in 1990 , nor the fact that there have
been other properties which supposedly are not in
compliance . Because I think Mr . Schlecht even
indicated during the previous meeting that those
buildings which were not in compliance either pre -
existed or I think he even said were in a different
zone at one point . That is page ten of your prior
minutes . I may have misread that but that is what
I saw . At any rate , I don ' t think either one of
those two factors really alters the fact that this
clearly is a substantial variance that you are
dealing with here .
I think the principle problem that I have , of the
stand point of the Town Board , is really with the
standard of proof which you were using to evaluate
this application . I think Mr . Jay said at the last
meeting , I know the way Banks are run and I believe
what Mr . Schlecht is saying . I ' m not saying we
believe or don ' t believe what Mr . Schlecht is
saying . I think it is just a question of has he
come forward with enough proof ? Proof that you
should be using . :
The question has already come up tonight about
precedent . I agree with what Mr . Marcus said
concerning precedent . That is true , theoretically ,
But you are going to have the same questions asked
that you just heard tonight . When you have those
questions asked , I submit that you should try and
set a standard for evaluating these things . It
might be , and should be , a standard beyond just
having the applicant tell you ; believe me when I
tell you it ' s impossible for me to get financing .
Believe me when I tell you that I have attempted to
market this property for a long period of time and
I can ' t sell it . Believe me when I tell you that
the only way I ' m going to be able to take care of
my financial problems with this property is if you
permit me to split it .
10
Ed Hooks . I know George Schlecht . I know he ' s a very
honorable person and there is really no reason for
You to disbelieve him . I am saying , are you going
to get into a position where you are going to have
to make credibility determinations with respect to
the various applicants who come before you ? Is it
going to become a personal matter ? Are you going
to decide to believe this individual rather than
that individual ? Or are you in point , in fact going
to say to these people when they come before you
that it ' s not that we are not believing you or we
di sbel i eve what you are tel 1 i ng us but we would 1 i ke
some proof .
What kind of proof am ,X talking about ? It ' s proof
that the New York C�ouaT of Appeals in one case has
suggested is something that should be looked at .
An appraisal o-F- the property . Some kind of dollars
and cents proof if you will . Is there an appraisal
for the property ? How is the property marketed ?
By whom was it marketed ? For how much was it
marketed ? For how long was it marketed ? Is there
a listing agreement of some sort that is existing
with respect to this property ? Has it been on the
market for such a long period of time that indeed
it can ' t be sold ?
How about the financial institutions ? To whom did
you apply ? When did you apply ? For how much money
did you apply ? For what purpose did you apply ? Was
it just one financial institution , was it three , was
it four , was it five ? How long have you gone
through the application process ?
The insurance questions . I raised that the last
time . I raise it again this evening . I think there
has to be a question as to , at least there was in
my mind when I read these minutes , was this rental
property insured ? If it was insured what happened
to the proceeds ? Was the rental home mortgaged and
if so how was the mortgage paid off ? And if it was
paid off in some fashion through insurance proceeds
I suggest to you that indeed who ever held that
mortgage should have been able to loan some more
money to do something on this property .
What we are talking about here is proof of
significant economic injury . I suggest that you
need , I think the case law in my view , and maybe Mr .
Marcus would disagree with me on this . I believe
• that the case law says essentially that if you come
in here and you say my property could be used more
11
Ed Hooks , profitably if you gave me this variance . I think
( con ' t ) the case law is very clear that says that is not
enough . And I say that essentially what we ' re
hearing here tonight is , said a different way , it
would be viewed more favorably by financial
institutions . I have a difficult time seeing how
that is a lot different rather than coming in and
saying my property could be used more profitably if
you permitted me to have this variance . As opposed
to saying my property would be viewed more favorably
by financial institutions if you gave me this
variance . To me it ' s the same thing , If you ' re
going to grant a variance on that basis I think you
have to go back and start to ask yourself those
types of questions and seek the type of evidence
that I ' m suggesting .
I want to make this very clear . That neither myself
nor for that matter this is not some personal
agenda . We have no reason to scuttle Mrs .
Schlecht ' s application for this area variance . We
are simply suggesting on behalf of the Town Board
that when you analyze this and when you evaluate it
set yourself a standard to do it . Again I go back
to , I think the fundamental question that comes
before you . Are you going to end up in a situation
where you are going to have to assess the relative
credibility of each and every applicant who comes
before you ?
Joseph Jay . Page nine . . .
M . Varvayanis : To Mr . Schlecht : Last time you offered to show us
letters from your banks . Did you happen to bring
those with you this time ?
G . Schlecht : I have two letters . One from the Dryden bank which
we had read . . . . . I think for you it would be obvious .
That you can ' t remortgage a property that is
encumbered with a mortgage already . And a second
letter from the Trust Company which gives the
opinion that the property would be more easily
financed if it were two separate pieces .
M . Varvayanis : Would you mind bringing them up here . While he ' s
looking I might ask , he kind of threw the gauntlet
down saying you might have a different opinion on
case law . I thought that financial hardship was one
• of the things we were supposed to consider and I ' m
surprised to hear forget financial hardship that
doesn ' t mean diddledy squat is basically . . .
12
s
Ed Hooks . No , don ' t misunderstand me . I ' m certainly not
saying it doesn ' t mean diddledy squat . What I am
saying is if you are going to talk in terms of
economic injury or financial hardship there is a
certain standard of proof . And that standard of
proof , as I read it , requires that you come forward
with more than just saying that my property could
be used more profitably or could be more financially
advantageous to a bank or viewed from a bank
standpoint if you permitted me to divide it . I am
saying you have to prove that in some fashion
through documentation , through some outside sources .
At least in my reading of the law .
G . Schlecht : This is certainly not meant to be argumentative
because I am not qualified to do it . I would just
point out that the letter that was written by the
Town Attorney origina questions the propriety based
on the fact that it was their opinion that it was
reduced to a personal financial question . Now a
personal financial question was in fact not
appropriate . I think what I ' m hearing is basically
the opposite now . They ' d like to audit. me now but
really what I have to show is a personal financial
hardship . There is an inconsistency .
M . Varvayanis : I think we ' ve all agreed that the original letter
really was nos diplomatically. Ot ' s not effecting
what we are thinking right now anyway .
R . Marcus : I was just taking a look at a couple of notes while
Mr . Schlecht pulled those letters out . George , were
you able to get copies of that ?
I don ' t disagree with much of what Mr . Hooks
explained . It is entirely correct that you need to
base your decision on some issue of proof . - To
rephrase what he said I would advise that in every
case you obtain from the applicant as much proof as
is available . You have to obtain enough proof to
reach the point where you ' re satisfied that the
applicant has established the answers to the
questions you ' re looking at . Mr . Hooks pointed to
one standard that isn ' t actually part of the text
of the law but it has been developed by the courts
and that is this standard of significant economic
injury . That is a catch phrase the courts have come
to use as to what has to be proven to grant an area
• variance . That is a lower standard than what the
courts call hardship . And in talking about these
things unfortunately the terms start getting
13
Randy Marcus : intermixed and sometimes we talk about hardship
( con ' t ) in any case but hardship is really intended to
reflect a higher standard . A more difficult to
reach standard . This significant economic injury
is what the courts have said is-
s; proven by a showi ng
that the appl i cant i s not goi ng to be abl a to deri ve
the value from the property that they either
intended or had a reason to expect . In another way
of saying it that they could derive if it weren ' t
for some particular element of the zoning law . That
is sort of the nature of an area variance . There
is some requirement that they are seeking to avoid
which by avoiding they can derive some economic
benefit .
I am expressing it in a positive sense . I am saying
if they can get a variance they will derive an
economic benefit . The way Mr . Hooks was describing
it , it ' s the opposite , that if the law is imposed
without the granting of the variance the applicant
has a significant economic injury . It ' s entirely
correct that what you ' re looking for is a way to
determine whether the applicant is suffering that
significant economic injury . What you take as proof
is to a large extent up to you . Mr . Hooks is right
you don ' t want to have to sit here as the judge of
an applicants character . And have to decide in each
case , can you believe this person , can you believe
that person . You want to be able to base your
decision on evidence that they have given you .
Whether it is in writing or orally that makes it
understandable , clear , logical , rational for you to
come to that decision . The more evidence you have
the more firm your decision , the more difficult it
is to challenge your decision . The more of that
evidence that is in writing the easier it would be
to withstand the challenge .
I don ' t disagree with any of the points that Mr .
Hooks made along those lines . I would say though
that you as a Board have to recognize this
significant economic injury standard is lower than
a hardship standard . It doesn ' t take as much to
prove that .
In the larger picture of things I am not sure that
in advising you what to require of an applicant I
would go quite as far as some of the suggestions
that Mr . Hooks has made . To get for example
appraisals of the property . In other words , in a
case such as this I think it ' s self evident that if
there was an income producing house , rental house ,
14
Randy Marcus : on this site that has burned down it '
( con ' t ) that the income that it was s self evident
producing is no longer
available . The applicant as a result , because they
can ' t rebuild that residential structure because it
is not permitted in the zone , the applicant is under
some economic , I ' ll use the phrase hardship but not
in the technical sense , to use the courts chosen
phrase significant economic injury because he can ' t
replace that residential rental income because the
zoning law prevents him from doing that .
In a situation like that where it is a very unusual
situation it ' s not going to be very often that you
have a case where there was a nonconforming use
being made of the property .- S,enerati ng income which
was all of a sudden taken away from the applicant ,
basically overnight with no involvement , no action
by the applicant on account of a fire . That is the
underlying basis for what is going on here .
My disagreement with Mr . Hooks is not in the general
points he is making but in the way in 'which they
might be applied to these facts , to this particular
case .
I think it is very valuable that Mr . Schlecht has
submitted these letters from The Dryden Bank and
from The Trust Company that provide evidence of the
points he was making orally during his September 6th
presentation . I think those letters do go a long
way in supporting the points that he made . I am not
trying to make his case but I am trying to
categorize the amount or the degree of evidence
that might be necessary to support different points .
Just to look at it a different way . If there had
never been a farm house on this property generating
rental income and all that were happening here was
somebody coming in and saying I want to subdivide
my property to get back to the point where I had the
same return from that property that I had before
this fire . I think it ' s a different case . If that
were the case you would need some kind of evidence
of what the economic injury is . What is going on
with this property ? You are looking at a situation
where somebody wants to do something that has not
been the case before . It is different than the
facts here where there was income being produced .
J . Jay : The purpose of this rehearing is to clarify the
. findings .
is .
• R .
Marcus . That ' s right .
J . Jay : And we do have a whole set of clarified findings ,
is that correct ?
M . Varvayanis : That is correct .
J . Jay : Do you want to enter that into the record ?
M . Varvayanis : I still wondered if there were more comments to be
made ?
( no one had any questions )
R . Marcus : You probably want to enter the two letters into the
record .
Mark Varvayanis submitted the two letters and draft findings as
part of the record .
PUBLIC HEARING FOR GEORGE SCHLECHT CLOSED ( 8 : 37pm )
DELIBERATIONS
PETER AND ANN MARTIN VARIANCE
J . Jay : 1 ) Whether an undesirable change will be produced in
the character of the neighborhood or a detriment
to nearby properties will be created by the granting
of the area variance .
There are two letters from adjoining neighborhood
properties . One stated in favor and the other one
state6 no objection .
M . Varvayanis : Also the fact that there is a barn across the street
that is even closer to the road that is coming down .
R . Marcus : I should mention in regard to that , if that is
important , and I would agree with you , it seems to
be , you might want to make that a condition of your
decision .
M . Varvayanis : How exactly do we do that . They put this thing up
• in four weeks and then the barn supposedly comes
down sometime in the spring . And if it doesn ' t , do
we go back and bulldoze their new garage ?
16
•
R . Marcus : They would be in violation , . . . unfortunately it is
a couple step process . The first thing is Henry
would send them a notice of violation and give them
a few days to cure it . If they don ' t cure it then
you can get a court order . A long winded process
but it can happen .
J , Jay : In the variance we can say subject to , and then give
them 12 months ?
R . Marcus : Yeah , and you ' ve got to get used to the phrase
conditioned upon .
. J . Jay : conditioned upon . See now Mahlon would never let
us do that , He said he would never want to do that ,
M . Varvayanis : I think he would.
R . Marcus : Well it makes it a little more complicated but it ' s
specifically r the rights that your board
has . Ana av�, ,o „ ►, T6;
J . Jay : And we would give them like twelve months .
R . Marcus : Oh I would make it an even tighter time frame . They
said they would have the garage done in December .
Say by , give them nice weather , say May 31 until
June 1st .
Makes it easier , the more specific you are the
easier it is to enforce .
J . Jay : I would say in six months after the completion of
the garage . We could have a blizzard starting
tomorrow and that could delay things .
A . LaMotte : That is a point . Rather than a definite date a
specific period of time following the completion of
the garage .
J . Jay : The adjoining neighbors are not within clear vision
of his house . To me that is an important factor .
R . Marcus : There are no other residences immediately .
I think you probably want to mention here also the
results of the Town Engineer , having noted on
traffic safety .
• You also have this letter that he referred to that
should be part of the record .
17
R . Marcus : We went into that some , and I think as far as your
( con ' t ) findings from that point go you ' d want to make
reference to the letter . I think he was just
repeating what he put in the letter .
J . Jay : Are we covered on number one , whether there is a
undesirable change ?
M . Varvayanis : I think so .
R . Marcus : The way I usually do this is I make a concluding
finding . Probably in this case something to the
effect that based on those findings , no undesirable
change would be produced because there won ' t be any
impact on adjoining property owners . That ' s
basically the results .
M . Varvayanis : How exactly should I word the fact that there are
no houses nearby ?
R . Marcus : Well he specifically said that the property adjacent
to the west was a cemetery , and that the property
to the east is undeveloped and owned by him . That
• the next nearest neighbor , I don ' t know that he
mentioned a specific distance , but apparently there
are none . I think he said there are no other
residences within view of the site .
M . Varvayanis : Then again we are only taking his word for it . We
don ' t have confirmation .
R . Marcus : Again , that is a valid point . The more evidence you
have the more difficult it would be to challenge
the ultimate decision . There are some things it is
easier to rely on the applicant for than others .
You may want to in the habit of asking those kinds
of questions or requiring some written proof . One
way to do that would be if Henry requires a more
large scale map that identifies the location of the
neighboring property owners .
It is always a good idea if you have an opportunity
to inspect the site .
If there are questions ? I know you get the packets
a few days in advance of the meeting so if you have
questions when we review the packets you could have
Henry follow and provide the night of the hearing
• some additional materials also or have Henry put the
requests to the applicant to bring answers to some
specific question .
18
J . Jay : ( 2 ) Whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be
achieved by some other method ,
Again refer to number two and three of the
applicants letter .
R . Marcus : I think it is important to point out , as the
applicant did here , that one clear option that the
applicant had was to renovate the barn that serves
the same purpose currently . The disadvantage of
doing that with the findings . That it would be a
disadvantage doing that because the barn is located
much closer to the road right of way than the
proposed site of the new garage . I think that was
also pointed out not just by the applicant but by
the letter that he incorporated into the record .
A . LaMotte : Asked the Chair if he had put in -the finding
concerning the barn ?
J . Jay , The variance is substantia ' O
• M . Varvayanis Is it ?
R . Marcus : Again that is something that you could probably
argue either way .
J • Jay : . . cutting it in half although you ' re going back and
taking down the barn ,
M . Varvayanis : It ' s behind some sizeable trees .
R . Marcus : It is often the case and again I ' m giving you some
general guidelines that might not mean a lot in this
case but maybe in the future more important . If you
look at substantial as being measured just in
numbers - it is often going to be the case that your
answer is yes it is substantial . More often the
numbers 1 i ke i n thi s case you say approxi matel y hal f
of the required set back . Half is a substantial
amount , but if you look at substantial as being a
measure of the fact you could come up with a
different answer . As Mark points out the fact that
there is sort of a natural buffer to its visibility ,
The fact that again , you are going to have the same
findings for different headings . Your engineer has
• found that there is no impact on traffic safety or
on the ability for road work to be completed in the
future .
19
•
Randy Marcus : So your concluding finding might read something
( con ' t ) like : although the variance is substantial in terms
of the number of feet that are being eliminated from
the setback of the road , its not substantial in the
visual sense and it has no effect from the traffic
safety sense . You have to sort of look to the
underlying reason for having said that requirement
in the first place . You might even add in this item
also that there are no improvements on adjoining
properties that result in any uniformity .
J . Jay : That is number one or number four . . .
R . Marcus : Well you could put it in number one or you could
even put it in this number three . What I ' m saying
is if the idea to assess that is to create some
uniformity where the improvements are as related to
a road right - of - way and there are no improvements
anywhere in the vicinity like this . It is kind of
hard to say it ' s a substantial change .
J . Jay : Stated that number one and number four of the
criteria are so similar .
• R . Marcus : Yes . I would have to agree in most cases .
The only thing about four that sometimes can be
different , a little tough in this case , is if the
construction that would result from granting a
variance is going to have some physical presence or
it ' s physical nature is going to have some impact
other than other kinds of impacts . In terms of
traffic , in terms of safety , in terms of esthetics
that physically is going to create some other issue
or environmentally . And here you might mention that
relative to environmental conditions this is not
something that requires construction of either
septic or hook up to a sewer because we are talking
about a garage for storage purposes . Be explicit
about the purpose .
A . LaMotte discussed whether it was self created . Mr . LaMotte
noted if the house was 200 feet back from the road the garage would
only be 150 feet . This situation is created by where the house is
located .
20
R . Marcus : It is one n a ai u g you could probably come up with some
argument either way . I think the easier argument
in this case is that it is self created , in the
sense that it is chosen or they wouldn ' t be here
for a variance Obviously the Law doesn ' t require
you to fi nd that i t i s not sel f created i n thi s case
the law goes on to say it will not necessarily
purclude an area variance . The Law doesn ' t come out
and say it but that can be true of other items as
well . It is possible to come up with an uncertain
result on one of the other items and still grant the
variance .
J . Jay : It does say that . . . .
R . Marcus : It says you have to consider them all . I would
suggest that you consider what is the next statement
in the Law in granting of area variances , shall
grant the minimum variance that it shall deem
necessary and adequate and at the same time preserve
and protect the character of the neighborhood and
health , safety , and welfare of the community . In
a case like this you might add a finding that you
do not fi nd that there is any aspect f- 2th.e- �F �� f`�
construction that would result , ;iortn granting the
variance that has a negative impact on the health ,
safety , and welfare of the community . That there
is no interest in the character of the community or
the character of the neighborhood that is being
protected by refusing to grant the variance .
J . Jay : Henry , when he builds a garage , I know when you
builds a house you can get a CO when it is done .
Do you need that with a garage ?
H . Slater : You get a certificate of occupancy , restricted to
that of a storage structure .
J . Jays So when he is done , he calls you up , you give it an
inspection , you are . . .
Henry : SLAT&a .t No . They apply for a construction permit , assuming
they get the variance to build on that spot . They
submit us a set of plans , we review that set of
plans , from that set of plans certain inspection
poi nts / times we give to the applicant along with the
building permit . It can be concluded in only two
ways . Some type of a certificate served by
construction met with all the rules and regulations
that apply to it or special circumstance or the
Project becomes abandoned and the building permit
expires . One of those two things has to happen .
21
J . Jay : Do you go out there and inspect for the completion
though ?
H . Slater : We go out there and we inspect first of all for the
Zoning compliance or for the amount of variance
relief that was granted . to verify that . . . We verify
foundation boards . . . .
Then the completion , then the certificate . When the
building is substantially complete with the
standards which apply to it , it is closed out with
the certificate .
J . Jay : The certificate of completion ?
A . LaMotte : Is there an official date of completion ?
H . Slaters Yes . The certi f i cate set a date as we i ssued i t . . . or
a notice that it expired without the use being
exercised .
FINDINGS
M . Varvayanis :
• 1 . There is a barn across the street that is closer to the
road than the proposed garage .
2 . No neighborhood opposition was expressed . Two letters
were in favor of the proposal .
3 . The Town Engineer saw no problem with the traffic ,
safety, or road construction if the variance is granted .
4 . There are no residences in view of the proposed
structure .
5 . Based on the above findings there will be no undesirable
change in the character , or detriment to nearby
properties .
6 . Refer to items 2 and 3 of the applicants letter .
7 . The current structure could be rehabilitated , but that
barn is much closer to the road than the proposed garage .
8 . Based on findings six and seven there is no other
feasible way to achieve the benefits sought .
• 9 . There is a natural buffer between the road and the
proposed garage .
22
10 . There
will be no impact to traffic , safety , or road
maintenance according to the Town Engineer .
11 . Based on findings 9 and 10 the requested variance is not
substantial .
12 . Based on findings 1 through 4 there will be no adverse
impact on the physical or environmental conditions of the
neighborhood .
13 . There should be no negative impact on the health , safety ,
or welfare of the neighborhood .
R . Marcus : You want to mention the fact that the building is
not going to have any need for septic or sewer
because of what we mentioned , the physical and
environmental conditions not being effected .
Nothing insaddition to the existing house according
to their site plan .
J . Jay : When these are typed up we . . . looked at it clearly
as sections of the Law that we have to : . . we had in
the notes but each one those . . . make it clear on
this .
R . Marcus : You might mention the fact that you did find that
it was self created . You are required -to consider
that but there is nothing wrong with finding that
is the case .
M . Varvayanis : I ' ve changed 13 . . .
13 . There will be no new well or septic system required .
14 . There should be no negative impact on the health , safety ,
or welfare of the neighborhood .
15 . The problem was self created .
JOSEPH JAY MOVED TO ACCEPT THE FINDINGS .
SECOND BY ALAN LAMOTTE
VOTE :
YES ( 3 ) M . VARVAYANIS , A . LAMOTTE , AND J . JAY .
NO ( 0 ) ABSTAINED ( 0 )
23
•
ALAN LAMOTTE MOVED THAT THE REQUEST BE GRANTED CONDITIONAL UPON THE
REMOVAL OF THE EXISTING BARN WITHIN SIX MONTHS AFTER THE DATE OF
THE CERTIFICATE OF COMPLETION HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR THE GARAGE .
SECOND BY JOSEPH JAY .
VOTE :
YES ( 3 ) M . VARVAYANIS , A . LAMOTTE , AND J . JAY .
NO ( 0 ) ABSTAINED ( 0 )
DECISION : VARIANCE GRANTED
DELIBERATION / FINDINGS FOR THE SCHLECHT HEARING
M . Varvayanis : Do you wish to accept these 30 findings this
evening ?
A . Lamotte : Shouldn ' t we make some initial someplace to
accommodate these letters ?
• M . Varvayanis : They were included into the record .
R . Marcus : I know that there were a couple of places where
there is some reference . Item number 14 at the top
of page 32 relates to that issue .
J . Jay : Put see accompanying letters on file ?
R . Marcus : That would be fine . . . . get specific about it . Say
see August 30 , 1994 letter of First National Bank
of Dryden and August 11th letter of Tompkins County
Trust Company .
You could add it to either item 14 or 15 really .
You could add that reference after the first
sentence of 15 .
M . Varvayanis : We ' ll insert it at the end of number 14 and then it
is already there for number 15 .
R . Marcus : I wanted to make a suggestion if your inclined to
make a motion to adopt these . Phrase the motion as
a motion to adopt the draft findings delivered
October 25 , 1994 in care of the Town of Dryden
Zoning Officer Henry Slater and circulated to the
• Town Board and the Zoning Board members prior to
this evenings meeting as amended by the addition 'ro
item 14 .
24
JOSEPH JAY MOVED TO ADOPT THE DRAFT FINDINGS DELIVERED OCTOBER 25 ,
1994 IN CARE OF THE TOWN OF DRYDEN ZONING OFFICER HENRY SLATER AND
CIRCULATED TO THE TOWN BOARD AND THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
MEMBERS PRIOR TO TONIGHT ' S MEETING AS AMENDED WITH THE ADDITION TO
NUMBER 14 ,
THE CHAIR INSERTED AT THE END OF ITEM 140 SEE AUGUST 30 , 1994
LETTER OF FIRST NATIONAL BANK OF DRYDEN AND AUGUST 11 , 1994 LETTER
OF TOMPKINS COUNTY TRUST COMPANY ,
SECOND BY ALAN LAMOTTE ,
VOTE : YES ( 3 ) M . VARVAYANIS , A . LAMOTTE , AND J . JAY .
NO ( 0 ) ABSTAINED ( 0 )
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ALAN LAMOTTE MOVED TO APPROVE THE DECISION MADE ON SEPTEMBER 6 ,
1994 BASED ON THE FINDINGS .
SECOND BY JOSEPH JAY ,
VOTE : YES ( 3 ) M . VARVAYANIS , A . LAMOTTE , AND J . JAY .
NO ( 0 ) ABSTAINED ( 0 )
DECISION : VARIANCE GRANTED
M . Varvayanis : We were just wondering what is happening with the
fifth member ? Are we going to get somebody else
appointed ?
R . Roberts ? The Town Board hasn ' t taken any action . At our last
meeting we only had three Town Board members
present .
M . Varvayanis : Can we make a request ?
J . Jay : At four o ' clock today I was 165 miles away from
here . I made it back. I planned on coming back and
I did but I couldn ' t guarantee my car wouldn ' t conk
out . If I wasn ' t here then we would have wasted all
these peoples good time and money and everything
like that because Mr . Hanely wasn ' t here . So when
you are down to four members it makes it tough .
25
7
M . Varvayanis : I would like to make an official request . If there
is no objection I will make an official request to
the Board that a fifth member be appointed to the
Zoning Board os Appeals .
R . Roberts : I believe according to the Local Law that was
adopted last year that there is a procedure for
removal of a Board Member . Anne did not officially
resigned . . . . . . . . I believe it is after three meeting
are missed . Whether you have to wait, for three
meetings , I guess two meeting have already occurred .
M . Varvayanis : It occurs to me that maybe you can ' t officially
dismiss her until three meetings have been met but
since she is in New Zealand and plans to stay there
that you could start reviewing other applicants .
J . Jaya We could but you are not going to find anybody by
December anyway . We don ' t have a long list of
applicants .
R . Marcus : What sometimes is done is to appoint on a temporary
basis in leaves of absence . You can either do it
in an informal manner which would probably stand up
if anybody wanted; to challenge it but the technical
correct manner would actually be to adopt a Local
Law that provides the Town the ability to appoint
temporary members to cover these absences .
M . Varvayanis : I think we are allowed a alternate member .
R . Marcus : Yes that may already be part of the Town ' s Law . I ' m
still getting familiar with it .
A . Lamotte : I showed you the draft copy Mark at the last meeting
and I don ' t know what . . . .
M . Varvayanis : It might not be a bad idea even if you want to put
Ann back on to have an alternate member for such
occurrences and to get somebody in training for when
one of us . leaves .
• R . Roberts : We are actually meeting tomorrow night so we can at
least get something rolling .
26
f
♦ y
DISCUSSION : The members discussed the possibility of having
Attorney R . Marcus appointed as the ZBA
representative .
COUNCILMAN RONALD ROBERTS AT THE BOARDS REQUEST WILL INQUIRE AT
TOMORROW ' S SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING IF THERE ARE FUNDS AVAILABLE
FOR A TRAINING SESSION WITH ATTORNEY RANDY MARCUS BEFORE THE FIRST
` < OF THE YEAR ,
MEETING ADJOURNED ( 9 : 30PM )
•
27