HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-12- 12TB 1242 -01
TOWN OF DRYDEN �■
® TOWN BOARD MEETING ,.
December 12, 2001
Board Members present: Supv Mark Varvayanis, C1 Ronald Beck, Cl Thomas Hatfield, t
Cl Charles Hatfield, Cl Deborah Grantham O
Other Elected Officials: Bambi L. Hollenbeck, Town Clerk
Jack Bush, Highway Superintendent
Other Town Staff: Mahlon R. Perkins, Town Attorney
Henry Slater, Zoning Officer
David Putnam (TG Millers), Town Engineer
Supv Varvayanis opened the meeting at 7:10 p.m. Board members and guests
participated in the pledge of allegiance, followed by a moment of silence.
PUBLIC HEARING
SITE PLAN REVIEW APPLICATION OF
JC LEASING COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT A 24,5000 BLDG
AT 22 ABBOTT ROAD, TOWN OF DRYDEN
Supv Varvayanis opened the hearing at: 7:12 p.m. and Town Clerk read the notice
' published in The Ithaca Journal. John Burruss of J.C. Leasing and Gary Wood, engineer for
the applicant were present. Town Clerk read letters received from the Tompkins County
Planning Department and TG Miller Engineers regarding the application. The Planning
Department has determined that the proposal has no negative intercommunity, County or
State impacts, and made the following comments: "1. Due to the amount of impervious
surface being added to this site, it: is important to ensure that stormwater is well managed.
2. The plans show a wooded buffer area surrounding the proposed warehouse, which we
would like to see maintained to the greatest extent possible." TG Miner Engineers recommend
that the applicant extend the stone swale to the roadside ditch.
Delores Dunn, who with her husband owns property adjacent to the applicant, stated
that on one side of property she sees the orange of the present buildings, and will now see it on
the other side of her property. Their property will now be surrounded by these types of
buildings and she has had difficulty selling her house and property because of the present
businesses. She understands and has understood that the surrounding property would be
developed, being that it is at a crossroads. She asked that her property be zoned back to
business as it was when she purchased it 30 years ago. She believes that in 1985 it was
changed to small business and the only way she will be able to sell her house is if it is zoned
for large business. She states her property value has decreased by approximately x;10,000 and
expects that it will probably be decreased again. She had property sold once but the sale fell
through because they wanted it for large business and it could only be used for small business.
Their residence sets away from other residences in the area.
ZO Slater informed Mrs Dunn that her property is the one residential property ghat is
zoned the same as the property surrounding it. He told her that her realtor had misled her and
it could have been sold for large business use, and offered to write a letter of zoning
designation for her use in the future, that it is zoned for commercial use.
I
Page l of 31
T13 12 -12-01
Mrs. Dunn informed Mr Burruss that the employees of Airborne Express frequently
drive too fast, and he stated that he would speak to them. The Dunns and Mr. Burruss agree
that the driveway to Abbott Road has solved some of the problem. Mr. Burrus stated that the
new building will be beige and the old buildings will be painted beige.
Cl Grantham and Supv Varvayanis stated that they had requests from some residents
that signage be installed instructing vehicles using the new building to enter and exit via
Abbott Road to Hanshaur Road, Mr Burruss said that he would do that and noted that since
the installation of the traffic light at Hanshaw Road and Route 13 vehicles frequently travel
that %vay instead of trying to use Lower Creek Road.
Cl Beck asked whether maintaining the vegetative buffer would be a problem, and
applicant said they did not desire to take anything down they didn't have to. Gary Wood stated
they understand revision to the drainage plan requested by TG Miller and that will be done.
Board reviewed the short environmental assessment form (contained in project file).
RESOLUTION #223 - NEG SEQR DEC - JC LEASING COMPANY
Cl Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board issue a negative declaration based on the SEQR
review for the special permit application of JC Leasing Company to constriction a 24,500
square foot dry storage warehouse at 22 Abbott Road in the Town of Dryden. This is an
unlisted action and the Town of Dryden is the lead agency in uncoordinated review. The
Supervisor is authorized to sign all necessary documents.
Did Cl C Hatfield
Roll Call Vote
Cl Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Cl Grantham stated she would like a sign indicating traffic flow as a condition of the
approval directing the traffic to Hanshaw Road rather than Lower Creek Road, together with a
condition that the vegetative buffer be maintained and the Standard Conditions of Approval.
Hours of operation will not be included in the conditions as the site is in the MA Zone.
RESOLUTION #224 - APPROVE JC LEASING COMPANY SITE PLAN
Cl Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby approves the site plan application presented
by JC Leasing Company to erect a 24,500 square foot dry storage warehouse at 22 Abbott Road
in the Town of Dryden, subject to the follou*ing conditions:
1. Standard Conditions of Approval (7- 12 -00) shall apply.
2. Signage directing traffic flow to Hanshaw Road and away from Lower. Creek Road
shall be installed.
3. Applicant shall maintain the existing vegetative buffer surrounding the property
to the greatest extent possible.
2nd Cl C Hatfield
Page 2 of 31
TB 12 -12411
Roll Call Vote Cl Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
RESOLUTION #228 - APPROVE ABSTRACT # 112
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVE D, that this Town Board hereby approves Abstract # 112, vouchers #936
through # 1025, totaling $149,485.68.
2nd C1 C Hatfield
Roll Call Vote
Cl Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
CITIZENS PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR
Cl Grantham explained that she and Susan Boutros and Henry Slater have been talking
about Ms Boutros' application for commercial expansion funding through the County and Ms
Boutros is here to update the Board on what is going on with that and what the Board will
have to do next.
Susan Boutros explained that they have now completed the loan arrangement for the
construction and the loan approval has been given. They are now interviewing engineers.
When she was previously before the Board and received a special permit, it was based on a
plan for a 36' by 36' by building and she would like now to build a larger building. It will
ultimately depend on the price and she has received quotes ranging from $50 /square foot to
$150 /square foot. Because of the site and the slope of the land it may be on the high side.
She would like to know how much flexibility in the approval that she has and have some idea
of where things are now. In the next few months she will be looking at designs that fit the site.
She has purchased a home near the property in question and so she wants to see that it
remains a livable residential area and has a personal stake in the design. They will need to
cure some site problems that they currently have in terms of drainage. She emphasized that
one of the conditions of the loan is that it generate jobs and they expect to create positions for
lower and. middle income workers. They would like to tie a new building in to the existing
building, keeping it functional and aesthetically pleasing.
Cl T Hatfield asked if she had spoken with her neighbors and said that it was important
that they know the plans and their concerns could be addressed.
ZO Slater asked Ms Boutros if she knew how large a building she would want and she
stated the loan papers filed indicated a building up to 4,000 square feet, and she had
envisioned at least: a two story building. She is unsure what they would like to do and it will
depend on the recommendations of an engineer. ZO Slater told her she would have to keep in
mind accommodations for handicapped accessibility if she went with two stories, but the
terrain may work to their advantage.
Pages of 31
TB 12 -12 -01
Cl Grantham advised Ms Boutros that she needed to be careful of SEQR limits because
she wouldn't want to get over those thresholds and be forced to go to an EIS. Ms Boutros said
she probably wouldn't be going over the 36' x 36' footprint. 0
C1 T Hatfield stated that he was a little concerned in the range of price per square foot
for construction and that when Ms Boutros has assembled a team to work on this that they
make sure she is in the best spot, that there aren't other spots available that: she would
purchase for $85,000 per square foot and be up and running immediately. He pointed out that
he is pleased that she is in a postilion to need the additional space and that her business is
growing. She needs to take into account the concerns of her neighbors. Cl Grantham stated
she would not be able to buy something that she could just move into because of the lab.
Mike Lane stated that this is a revolving loan program that the County has through
HUD funds. There is a process in which applications were solicited and the ones that looked
promising were rel6ewed further by a. committee which consists of people from the County
Board and from the business community. This was recommended as a viable application.
ZO Slater said he thought Ms Boutros was looking for a sense of the board as to
whether or not Mt.; Boutros would need a new hearing if she changed the footprint. The Board
has previously approved a 36'x 36' commercial building. He said that they had talked about
storage throughout the hearing process but the wording of the resolution did not reflect that.
The Board needs to give Ms Boutros some direction.
Atty Perkins said that Ms Boutros would need to decide what she was going to do. Cl
Grantham asked what the threshold would be for determining whether it. needed another
special permit or just administrative changes. Atty Perkins replied that it was a rule of reason:
Is this reasonably related to what the first project was? A special permit really addresses the •
use of the property.
Cl deck asked if there would be additional employees, Ms Boutros said there would,
and Cl Beck said that if there would be, that would be a little bit different use.
Atty Perkins said if she is going to have the same square footage, but it's a different:
footprint, then reasonably ZO Slater could do that administratively. But if the size of the
addition was doubled, that would be different. It needs to be firmed up from a. conceptual
point of view before you can make that determination.
S Boutros asked if there was a problem with use and said that the resolution and the
application are slightly different. The resolution gives permission for a 36' x 36' building, but
the actual permit describes that as storage. The intent of the additional building is really for
working space and it was, in her mind, for working space when she attended the meeting. She
is in the laboratory business and the way she generates dollars to pay her employees is
through performing laboratory tests. Her immediate need is more bench space.
Supv Varvayanis - I don't remember too many details from 14 months ago, but we did
discuss storage, creating a building instead of mobile units, but we also had citizens in here
because we were talking about more employees and they were objecting to the lab. I remember
asking you specifically if you follow GLP, good laboratory practices, and all the recording and
all the safety and you said you did. So we did have a hearing involving the expansion of your
business, more work, more employees, also, so exactly what the resolution says I don't
remember, but both things were discussed.
ZO Slater - The resolution is pretty loose. It says commercial building.
Supv Varvayanis - Well it covers what we talked about. 0
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TB 12 -12 -01
• Cl Grantham - The resolution says construction of a commercial 36 x 36 building and
Kennedy tool shed, and the certificate says structure conforming construction accessory to a
C -1 professional office and a C -7 modular tool shed.
Supv Varvayanis - So we talked about all those things.
Atty Perkins - What you really have to look to is the application.
ZO Slater - The simple solution is to re- open it and firm it up.
Supv Varvayanis - I don't think we'll have a problem with this, so when you have a plan
we can look at it.
S Boutros - I'd like to have it as soon as possible. Again, I've been advised that if I can
get a design team on board, this is a good time to do so. You can get people to do things this
time of year as opposed to waiting a couple of months. This is a slower time when you can get
people to focus on a. new project:.
The Board advised Ms Boutros that she needs a firm plan, the size of the building, the
footprint of the building and the use, and how it would be attached to the current building.
She should also address the parking, drainage and traffic. When she has that, the Board will
rehear the matter.
Cl Beck asked if the new plan will create more jobs than the one she applied for
fourteen months ago. Ms Boutros stated that she did not have in mind a specific number of
® jobs when she applied previously, but that this new plan will commit her to a goal of a certain
number. Cl Beck stated lie would like to be clear on the number of employees and it seems
that is different than the previous application. The loan commits them to increase the number
of employees, creating 15 new positions, 10 of which will be for low to moderate income
individuals. Conditions of the loan allow a deviation from that by 209/61
Paul Tunison, of Southern Cayuga Lake Intermunicipal Water Commission (Bolton
Point) referred the Board to a proposed resolution with respect their union contract and gave a
brief background. A year ago the Commission received word that a majority of the employees
had decided to be represented by the Union of Operating Engineers and that culminated in a.
private vote of those 11 employees. The vote was 8 to 3 in favor of the union. Negotiations
followed and in March they were given a preliminary contract by the union's negotiating team.
Negotiations continued until July when an impasse was declared and a mediator was
appointed by PERB. At the third mediation session a tentative agreement was reached on the
contract and three days after that the 11 employees held a vote and it was ratified by a vote of
10 to 1. The contract has been approved by the Commission and three of the five member
municipalities. The Town of Dryden and the Village of Cayuga Heights have yet to adopt the
resolution. The Commission's negotiating team has reviewed the union contracts of seven
similarly sized water systems in this region of New York State and believe it to be fair. Mr.
Tunison noted that it seems that there are some high wage increases for some of the employees
for 2002, 2003, and 2004. These are the newer employees who have been there a shorter
period of time, but if you look at the top end of the wages in 2003, they are no higher than the
commission currently has in its wage structure. So a newly hired employee will get to the top
end within three years, instead of the five or six it presently does.
RESOLUTION #226 - APPROVE CONTRACT NEGOTIATED WITH THE INTERNATIONAL
40 UNION OF OPERATING ENGINEERS ON BEHALF OF THE SOUTHERN CAYUGA LAKE
INTERMUNICIPAL WATER COMMISSION'S EMPLOYEES THAT ELECTED TO BE
REPRESENTED BY THE UNION FOR THE PURPOSES OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING
Page 5 of 31
TB 12 -12-01
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
WHEREAS, the majority of the Southern Cayuga Lake intermunicipal Water
Commission's (Commission) non - managerial employees in the Production and Distribution
Departments voted afrirmatively on January 31, 2001 to be represented by the International
Union of Operating Engineers for the purposes of collective bargaining, and
WHEREAS, the Commission, in good faith, entered into contract negotiations with the
union, and
WHEREAS, on October 1, 2001, the Commission's negotiating team reached tentative
agreement on a contract with the union's negotiating team, and
WHEREAS, on October 4, 2001, the employees in the union bargaining unit ratified the
tentative contract, and
WHEREAS, the Commission has reviewed and approved the tentative contract, and
WHEREAS, the Town of Board has reviewed the tentative contract and determined it to
be acceptable, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Torn of Dryden Board approves the tentative contract, and BE IT
FURTHER
RESOLVED, that the Town of Dryden Board authorizes the Commission's negotiating
team to sign said contract as presented.
2114 Supv Varvayanis 0
Roll Call Vote Cl Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
COUNTY BRIEFING
Michael Lane said he was sorry not to see Joe Lall.ey present, that he brought a lot to
the committees he served on such as the Communications Capital Project and the Public
Works Committee. Mr. Lalley leas a good contributing member. M.r Lane looks fonvard to
working with Martha Robertson next year, who will be representing the other side of Town. He
also said it ha s% been a pleasure working with Cl T Hatfield and Cl Beck and he looks forward to
working with the new members.
M Lane stated he attended the meeting in Varna on Monday night regarding the
comprehensive plan and congratulated the board. He thought George Frantz did a very nice
job on the presentation, and has done a good job analyzing a lot of clata that has come out in
the last thirty years.
Ed Marks has been appointed by the Tompkins County Administrator as the new
Commissioner of Planning. Mr Marks is currently the director of Planning in Oswego County,
and was second in line for the position when Jim Hanson was appointed. He will be starting in
January.
Updates on Public Works projects: 40
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TB 12 -12=01
Bridge project on McLean- Cortland Road - The State Historic Preservation Office has
concurred with the County's study and the engineers are now updating the design report for
final DOT approval. Six property owners around the bridge will be affected with property being
needed for permanent and temporary easements.
Bridge painting - The County is going ahead with the project. They are a little afraid
because of the state funding program that funds it has been up in the air in the state budget
process. The County's share is 5 %, the State's is 1&1/0, and Federal aid is 80%. If the state
funding is not available, the County will have to pick up that share (approximately $50,000).
Bridges in the Town of Dryden to be painted are Southworth Road, Etna Lane over Fall Creek,
Turkey Bill over Cascadilla_ Creek, and Johnson Street over Virgil Creek,
Red Mill Road bridge - This is still held up at State level through the Office of State
Historic Preservation. They have expressed a willingness to consider relocation of the existing
ixuss bridge. They want the County to further justify why this is the preferred bridge design
alternative. They have told the County that: because they have had to respond to the
September 11 terrorist attack in New York State, that has hindered their ability to take action
on this and other items. The County continues to press them for a response.
Ringwood Road bridge - This project is on hold pending clarification of state funding.
This is the case with many projects that have both federal and state aid.
Caswell .Load dump - The County has been trying to figure out a way to decrease the
amount of leachate that is coming out of the dump. They believe a lot of that comes from
infiltration through the cap or around it. They are trucking more leachate than they believe is
reasonable, and it is pretty much watered down. It is trucked to the wastewater treatment
plant in Ithaca.. They contracted for a design for a project to remediate it and the final design
and technical specifications have been completed in draft form. The elements they recommend
the following for site work (does not address the possibility of pumping the leachate to the
Freeville plant): This would replace and relocate the current leachate collection system. It
would be rnoved to coincide with the waste limit (the actual area under which there had been
dumping). A portion of the current system will. be retrofitted with 6" solid pipe to convey
leachate to the tanks. This line since it is solid will also double for leachate storage if tanks
become full. Fill material will be placed on the existing landfill cap to promote drainage that
will reduce the volume of precipitation infiltrating into the waste mass. Lined swales will be
incorporated into the cap to remove surface water quickly and efficiently. (The landfill entrance
road, gate and area around the tanks will be upgraded and improved and a perimeter fence for
security will be bid as an alternative of the bid specs.) This process will take the rainwater
away from the area and move the leachate collection.
Cl Beck asked what kind of cap was in place at the old dump site and M Lane said he
assumed it was an impervious surface but he did not know the enact specifications. CI
Grantham said that the condition of the cap should be checked and it should be determined if
something else that should be done. M Lane will provide Cl Grantham with a copy of the draft
report. Cl Grantham asked the time period for comment and M bane replied that it has not
gone to bid yet and the report was a recommendation of what could be done. Cl Grantham
suggested that the Water Resources Council receive a copy of the report.
COUNCIL PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR
C1 Grantham reported that yesterday morning the building committee held its last
meeting with Pam Kingsbury of Egner Associates. Board members were provided with a copy
19 of the floor plan developed by the committee and Cl Grantham reviewed it with them. Ms
Kingsbury will provide a final written report in the near future. The report will include the
Page 7 of 31
TB 12.12.01
methodology used, comments on the site, an estimate (per square foot) for a masonry building
with brick facade. The next: step would be to release an RFP for building design. Cl Grantham •
noted that Ms Kingsbury was good to work with and everyone liked working with her because
she was very receptive to ideas, visited other courts with the Judges and clerks, and spent a lot
of time talking to the people who use the space. The final report is expected after the holidays.
Cl Grantham stated that the maps done by George Frantz in his mast:er plan work have
been valuable to the Conservation Advisory Council in the open space inventory. They met last
night and are forging ahead with figuring out exactly what needs to be in the inventory using
George Frantz's maps.
Cl T Hatfield stated that he heard the meeting went well, but he was concerned with the
short time between the time the notices went out and the date of the meeting. He would like
more notice given in the future.
Cl C Hatfield thanked Cl Beck and Cl T Hatfield for their years of dedicated service to
the Town. A lot of people appreciate their efforts.
TOWN ATTORNEY
Atty Perkins has previously provided board members with a simple proposed contract
with Cornell University which would allow the Town Fire Departments to use Cornell's dry
hydrant at the Mt Pleasant farm. The Town's liability is to repair any damage that's done
because of use. Atty Perkins suggested that the board approve the contract in concept and
authorise the Supervisor and he will then send it on to Cornell for their review.
RESOLUTION #227 = APPROVE AGREEMENT W /CORNELL FOR DRY HYDRANT USE
& AUTHORIZE SUPERVISOR TO SIGN
C1 C Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby approves the agreement with Cornell
University for use of its dry hydrant at. the Mt Pleasant Farm and authorizes the Supervisor to
sign the same.
21111 C1 T Hatfield
Roll Call Vote C1 Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Recused
Cl Grantham stated that Finger Lakes Stone Company had been caught. discharging
without having a SPDES permit:. That: is a DEC issue, but she was told that there is a
comment period related to this, and she wondered if this was an opening for the Town to do
anything about various situations at the quarry, such as the road. She stated that every time
there is a rain storm the road is covered with mud from the trucks. She said they are
advertising on their website that they are doing retail now. She stated she also understands
that on their website they talk about an expansion in 1998. She stated she does not and has
never wanted to shut the quarry down, but what they are doing to the road and their hours of
operation have remained an issue and perhaps this is an opening for the town to get a handle
on those two issues. Jack Bush said that he talked with them two years ago about the mud on
the road and they blamed it on Paolangeli. Cl Grantham said she understood that at that time
they said they would put stone on the exits from the quarry so the mud would get rubbed off
before it went on the road, and J Bush said that was more to prevent damage to the pavement. is
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Supv Varvayanis suggested they have a tire wash. J Bush agreed that it was an issue, but that
it may involve more than just quarry. Cl Grantham said that if a tine bath was used it would
take care of the problem for the quarry and any contractors.
Cl T Hatfield stated that comments need to be submitted no later than January 14,
2002, and perhaps Cl Grantham, Jack Bush, the Conservation Council, and Atty Perkins
should try to collect comments and forward them on. Cl Grantham stated that she wants the
quarry to be quiet at night and get them to take care of the road, and the discharge permit
should take of the stuff that comes out of the settling pond on the property. The debate has
been how much control DEC has over which of their operations. Cl T Hatfield stated that in
some ways the quarry has been hiding behind DEC permits to avoid complying with Town
coning issues. Cl C Hatfield stated that the quarry has been there forever and the houses were
built around it. Atty Perkins said that the condition of the road has nothing to do with the
quarry's operation of stone cutting, and they will say there are laws on the books in the Vehicle
and Traffic Law and the Town needs to see they are enforced. He has written to the Highway
Superintendent and given him the sections of the V & T Law, and there is a remedy there. This
is a permit for them to discharge cooling water from their stone cutting operation. Atty Perkins
will look into whether the hours of operation are subject to comment and mention it to DEC.
On motion of Supv Varvayanis, seconded by Cl Grantham and unanimously carried, the
board moved into executive session at: 8:45 p.m. to discuss collective bargaining negotiations
and personnel matters. No action was taken and the board was back in open session at 9:30
p.m.
At:ty Perkins explained that 12 changes have been made to the proposed contract with
Dryden Ambulance, Inc. to provide ambulance service in the Town for the year 2002.
® At:ty Perkins - The first change is on page l in the introductory paragraph they have
inserted Post Office Box 397 for Dryden Ambulance; not a substantive change. On page 2 in
paragraph 1(a) we have omitted the word clinic and the word place so that it now reads
consistent with the public health lal%v within the boundaries of the Town to a hospital or other
health care facility for treatment of such illness or injury. There is a conflict between what the
Town Law says and the Public Health Law. It was consistent with State Law before; it's now
consistent with the Public Health Law.
In paragraph 2(a) we have revised it to provide that the Dryden Ambulance will employ
or have on call sufficient volunteer certified paramedics so that each first call for ambulance
service can be responded to with a certified paramedic on board the ambulance, instead of
shall be responded. And then we have added at the request of Dryden Ambulance: Dryden
Ambulance shall have the discretion whether to dispatch the certified paramedic on the first
call for ambulance service based on the nature of the call.
The next change is in paragraph 3(a). At the end of the paragraph we've added except
in cases where an ambulance or its equipment is temporarily out of service for maintenance or
repair. In other words there was concern, well we've got three ambulances but we may not
have three ambulances available all the time if one of them is being serviced or has been in an
aaccident, or ism repair o we're .%Taiting for a new one or something. In order to prevent any
question 'about how long are out, we added another sentence: Any ambulance or
equipment out of service for more than 24 consecutive hours shall be immediately reported in
writing to the Town.
Dana. Abbey - That's new. That wasn't discussed. Would it make more sense to maybe
say 48 hours, and take the word equipment out of it? The reason I'm saying that is if we send
® out a heart monitor for repair, we aren't: going to get it back in 48 hours. We will rotate the
ambulances or rotate the other heart monitors depending on the ambulances being used. Does
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the ,town really care if that heart monitor is out of service for four days until we get it back? Or --
eight days or whatever it is. If an ambulance is not in service, I can understand, but every
piece of equipment. that makes that ambulance an ALS rig...
Atty Perkins - I think the concept here is if for any reason that third ambulance is out of
service for more than whatever period of time the board selects, we ought to be notified of it.
The idea here is to prevent you from saying okay, we've got a good deal, we can sell this
ambulance now even though we haven't ordered another one and now we're six months with
only two ambulances. The concept here, and this proposal was sold on the fact that there are
three ALS ambulances. I'm just trying to get to a point where we can make sure the know
what's going on. Equipment was added there so that if you had an ambulance out of service
because, for example, some ALS piece of equipment was out of service...
D Abbey - That ambulance may not necessarily be out of service. It may not be an ALS
rig because the heart monitor isn't on the rig...
Atty Perkins - But the proposal was to have three ALS ambulances. I don't care what
you do with it. It's up to the Board to decide how they want to approach this, whether it's 24
or 48 hours, whether it's related to equipment or just ambulances.
Cl Grantham - All it's saying is report.
Cl Beck - Is the
reporting a
problem? I mean we're not going to do anything about it. If
it's going to be out for a few days, we're probably not going to
buy a new heart machine
because it's going to be
out for two
days, but is the reporting
a problem?
D Abbey - I've got to take it back to the board, Ron. Again, this is a new insertion from
the last time that we met. It's not necessarily a problem of reporting, but as I'm going through
this and as we get. further into discussion, there's just more and more and more that you want
us to report, and l thought the intent was for us to insure that we were providing adequate
ambulance service for the Town, and you people wanted to wash your hands of it. And I
understand what you. need and what: you want and what we're going to provide you for monthly
reports, but that's only my personal opinion. There's six other people that have to discuss it.
This is a new change.
Cl Beck -
I guess I
feel it's
a
reasonable request: at this point, but if it's 24 or 48, I'm not
going to make a
big issue
of that.
I
still think it's a reasonable request.
Cl T Hatfield - The issue is what Mahlon said. You don't want to have the ambulance
gone for six weeks or eight months while you're ordering a new one. This strikes me as a little
bit of micromanagemen.t, 24 hours is a report. Can it be done? I'm absolutely certain that it
can be. It's just a piece of paper. But every time? Saturday and Sunday. Who's going to
accept it?
Supv Varvayanis - We don't have to accept it. It just says give us a report that we have
a problem.
Cl T Hatfield - Actually, it doesn't even say how quickly they have to give us a report. It
just has to be reported. Okay, immediately reported in writing to the Town. So there's got to
be somebody to accept it.
Cl Beck - It gets accepted when we get: here.
B Hollenbeck - They can put it: in the drop box.
Page 10 of 31
TB 12 -12-11
Supv
Varvayanis
- There's nothing
that
says we
have to officially accept it and
if we
® don't accept
it, then the
ambulance blows
up.
It's just
if something happens they let
us know.
Atty Perkins - How about if it were revised to reflect if the ambulance is out of service or
if there is equipment on the ambulance which is out of service which would render it being an
uncertified ALS ambulance or something like that, that that will be reported. So that you don't
have to worry about minor equipment things. But when it's status is that it is no longer an
ALS certified ambulance it gets reported.
with.
Cl Beck - That's the intent.
Atty Perkins - That's the intent, I'm just trying to get some language everyone can agree
Cl Beck - That would be good.
Cl C Hatfield - Does that suit you better Dana?
D Abbey - I think we can work around that.
Atty Perkins - Okay the next change is in paragraph 4(a), in the first line, and may from
time to time amend the rules and regulations, and at the end of that paragraph we've inserted
a new sentence that says: The Town agrees that it will first consult with Dryden Ambulance
before adopting or amending such rules and regulations. That was at the request of Dryden
Ambulance as I understand it.
D Abbey - No. The request from Dryden Ambulance was for the paragraph to read the
Town and Dryden Ambulance will cooperatively agree to adopt rules and regulations
concerning billing persons.
Atty Perkins - That states in the most obvious germs an agreement to agree, which you
can't have. It's the Town's function and they're charged as a matter of law with adopting the
rules and regulations. Now, what they've agreed to do is to consult with Dryden Ambulance.
Obviously, there's got to be some good faith on both sides here. They don't have to consult, but
it's geeing to consult.
D Abbey - It's a moving target though, Mahlon, the way our people see it. We've had
some bad experiences up here in txying to cooperate out of the Supervisor's office. They don't
want to see a moving target. They want to work together to set up, what do you people want.,
what are we going to provide, and to make sure that every thirty days something isn't going to
change and now it's not going to be acceptable.
Atty Perkins - The next change is in paragraph 5(a). We basically cleaned up the
language here a little bit about the information that the report would contain so that it would
include a date and time received for each request for service, the address to which the
ambulance responded, the time the ambulance left it's base of operations, the call receipt
interval,..
D Abbey - Should that go first Mahlon? In that paragraph, the call receipt interval?
Atty Perkins - Well the call receipt interval is the time between when it was toned out
and when it rolled. And it's a. computation basically of how long it took from the time they were
notified of the call..
Page 11 of 31
'1 "B 12- 12411
D Abbey - Which is all done with status buttons so it's all recorded, but should that not
be first, before your sentence of the time the ambulance left it's base of operations?
Atty Perkins - Whatever you want, it doesn't make any difference.
D Abbey - It doesn't make any difference to me either.
Atty Perkins - If it doesn't then let's not change it.
D
Abbey -
All I'm saying is
the
time the call comes in is recorded, then we record when
we leave, then we
back in service.
record when we
get
on the scene, when we leave the scene, and when we're
Atty Perkins - Well the call receipt interval basically can go anywhere, it's just a
computation isn't it? It's the length of time between when you were notified of the call and
when you rolled.
D Abbey - Right, and you're asking for the time we left first before the time of call.
Atty Perkins - 1 don't care what you say about it as long as you provide the information.
And if it doesn't make any difference I don't know why we're talking about it.
D Abbey - Clarification. That's what we're here for.
Atty Perkins - Well how can it be any clearer? Tell me how it should be clearer?
Cl C
Hatfield -
He just
did.
He wanted
that first. 0
Atty
Perkins -
Just tell
me
where in
the sentence you want it Dana.
D Abbey - All I'm saying is, I'm just putting what we do in order.
Atty Perkins - )Fine. Just tell me where in the sentence.
D Abbey - Right before where we leave the base of operation. You want the time we got
the call...
Atty Perkins - Done. The next change at the end of paragraph 5(a), we've changed the
language from shall be in a form and in such detail as the Town in its sole discretion
determines, to all such information shall be provided in writing and at least monthly and shall
be in the form and in such detail as the Town may reasonably require.
The next: change is in paragraph 6(b). We have changed monthly payments to equal
quarterly payments paid on or about the 150 of January and the 15th of April, July and
October.
In paragraph 6(e) this has been re- written to try and explain that what the Town has
been getting is what they'd like to see. We put a time limit to furnish it in. Compile a financial
statement for the years ended December 31, 2001 and 2002, will be due next April and April
15, 2003 Dryden Ambulance will furnish the 'Town financial statements for the years ended
December 31, 2002 and 2001.
Cl Grantham - First it says by April 15, 2002, compile financial statements for the years
ended December 31, 2001 and 2000. 0
Page 12 of 31
TB 12 -12 -01
Atty Perkins- Right.
Cl Grantham - And by April 15, 2002 and 2001. So you have 2001 twice.
Atty Perkins - You get two years at a. time. You get the preceding year and the most
current year.
Cl Grantham - All right..
Atty Perkins - We've added language the Town reserves the right to require that Dryden
Ambulance furnish the Town with an independent audit of the financial affairs of Dryden
Ambulance and the form, content, and person or firm performing such audit shall be subject to
the prior approval of the Town. This is substantially the same language which is in the existing
contract. It's not saying that Nve are necessarily going to require it, but we're reserving the
right.
D Abbey - Again, I'm not sure that the Board of Directors is fully happy with that
because it would be a six to eight thousand dollar expense that: you could impose on us very
easily. If you want to put in there that you reserve the right at your expense to do it, we have
no problem with it. But for us to pay a CPA firm to give us reports and then turn around and
have you require us to do a certified audit, it would be very, very expensive for us. If you want
to do it and you want to pay for it, we have no problem with that whatsoever.
Supv Varvayanis - That's been in the contract for...
17 Abbey - I understand that, but there's a lot of things we're trying to clear up.
Cl
C Hatfield -
What's
the next step down from a certified audit?
Cl
Grantham -
This is
such a standard thing
though.
C1 C Hatfield - And that's the same thing, only they didn't get near as much money.
C1 T Hatfield - That's right because there's a substantial difference in compliance.
Supv Varvayanis
- We're already saying
we'd take
the compilation
audit. This is only if
for some reason we think
that they're trying to
cheat, we've
got a right to
look into that.
D Abbey - And there's no problem at your expense.
Cl T Hatfield - I have to tell you if you're doing that kind of an audit, you're not doing it
for five or sic grand either.
Cl Beck - What about sharing the cost of an audit.
Supv Varvayanis -
Well, it's
kind of having
a stick saying if we don't get the information
we want, then we require
them to
pay for it. They
have to trust a little bit that: we're not going
to go charging out there and just...
Cl Grantham - Do it frivolously and not fairly.
Supv Varvayanis - It's not we feel like having you waste your money so we're going to
ask for an audit.
Cl Beck - All businesses are supposed to be audited.
Page 13 of 31
TS 12 -12=01
D Abbey - We give you a CPA audit. It's what they call a. compilated audit. 0
Cl Grantham - That's fine and that's the only routine requirement. If for some reason it
comes up that we need a full audit.,.
D Abbey - We have no problem if you want to perform that Deb. I don't think it'd be a
problem at all,
Cl C Hatfield - If they pay for it we'll have to pay for next year anyway probably in the
contract.
Cl T Hatfield - Not only that, but we're going to name the firm so the_y've got no control
over whether we name a big 6, big S or a local, and there are substantial differences in pricing.
I don't have a problem with what we're saying here. But I think it's.). reasonable request that if
the Town's going to reject the compilation prepared by an outside accountant, then we might
as well pay for it when we ask for it, because we'll pay for it the following year. At some point
in time someone's got to pay for it and there's only one source of payment. .1 think it's a
reasonable thing to put in here if we're going to have all these rights as a Town.
Cl Grantham - Its not that we're going to have all these rights. It's our responsibility.
Cl T Hatfield - I'm not disagreeing with you at all. It's subject to the prior approval of
the Town and subject to payment for by the Town is what I would add to that. We can have an
audit anytime xve want to, a full blown audit. We can get proposals and get prices. They're
providing us with an outside prepared compilation financial.
D Abbey - You can have our monthly computer spreadsheets off our oven system. We
have no problem with that. 0
Cl Beck - This contract is going to be looked at in another year. It's going to be agreed
on once a year. l would. say go ahead and offer to pay for it the first year and see what
happens. If you go downs the road and you don't like what's happened the contract: can be
changed the next: year. It's a new issue for them and they're uptight about it.
Supv Varvayanis - It's not new, this is the language, I I
Cl Beck - They're taking on the responsibility of providing the service on a different level
than they have before , and we've put the ball in their court and I guess maybe I'd be willing to
in this contract: pay for it. It's the normal way I'd think about doing business, but they're on
the edge here, it's a new ball game and they're looking at some unknowns. I agree with you
Tom. Do we need to get a sense of the board?
Cl Grantham - Why don't you go on Mahlon?
Atty Perkins - The last change is on page 10, paragraph 1. S, we have inserted the post
office box address of Dryden Ambulance, Inc.
Cl Beck - Do you have to take it back, Dana?
D Abbey - rive(c) is a. new paragraph that was inserted which wasn't in there before. I'm
curious as to what the real purpose of it is,
Supv Varvayanis - Dianne said we don't have a current list of members. She wants a
list of current members. Is that a problem? 0
Palc 14 of 31
TB 12 -12401
® D Abbey - It's not necessarily a problem, but normally what we would do is, and again
I'm not sure what she's looking for. Is this members of the Department? Technically all
members of Neptune Hose are members of Dryden Ambulance. Mahlon do you know how the
VFDL is paid? Is it based on the number of members?
Atty Perkins - It's based on the number of ambulances.
D Abbey - So the numbers don't matter. So if we supply the list of membership at the
beginning of the year and as we vote them in report them to her? That's typically what we do
with the Village.
Supv Varvayanis - That would be fine, and if they retire or whatever.
D Abbey - The town of Slaterville or the Slaterville district that's being currently covered
is silent. Is it the Town's understanding that they are going to expect Slaterville to continue the
way it is?
Atty Perkins - The Town of Dryden Ambulance District is the entire Town of Dryden.
D Abbey - I understand.
Atty Perkins - And t:hat's what you contracted for.
D Abbey - The Town hasn't been providing paramedics to the residents of Slaterville in
the Town of Dryden in the last...
® Atty Perkins - I don't know whether you've been responding to calls, Dana. I'm only
telling you what the law is and what the district is and what the contract says.
D Abbey - I said it's a silent issue, but I think it needs to be understood.
Cl Grantham - It's the entire Town.
D Abbey - You haven't been providing paramedics to the entire Town, in the last
contract.
Supv Varvayanis - The contract provided it. if you didn't supply it, that's...
Cl Beck - It was resolved by an agreement: between you and Slaterville, right?
D Abbey - We were under the impression all the while that you were still contracting
with Slaterville until Mark informed us that you hadn't had a contract in the last three or four
years.
Cl Grantham - But it's in the current contract? It's in the current contract that it's the
entire Town of Dryden?
Supv Varvayanis - It was in the old contract, the entire torn.
D Abbey - Somewhere along the line it did exclude Slaterville, and it did get changed.
Supv Varvayanis - I have no idea when that was. It was before I got here.
Cl C Hatfield - So what it is now is that Slaterville takes care of part of the Town?
Rase 15 of 31
TB 12 -12-01
Cl Grantham - No.
D Abbey - Yes.
Atty
Perkins - They haven't
contractually for years.
Whether in fact under a mutual aid
agreement or dispatch agreement
they respond is another
issue.
Bill Ackroyd - It's a dispatching situation.
Atty Perkins - But contractually they are not legally obligated to do so.
CI C Hatfield - But if they do do it, it's no problem on our end is it?
Cl Grantham -Well, if it's mutual aid, right?
D Abbey - It's not mutual aid because they are primarily dispatched. If they don't have
the qualified help on board they request help from a paid service, which is typically Bangs
going to Ithaca. That's what they do currently.
Cl Grantham - So then we just go with your contract is for the entire town, and that
takes care of it then right?
D Abbey - Well, no.
Supv Varvayanis - Why doesn't it?
CI Beck - It's a case of dispatch, is that what you're saying?
Supv Varvayanis - Yes, and if dispatch likes it that way and you like it that way and
Slaterville likes it that way and as far as I know the citizens out in that: area like it that way, it's
fine. But if a problem which Slaterville ambulance comes up, which it might since they won't
talk to us, your contract covers the whole town.
B Ackroyd - Slaterville won't talk to you?
Supv
Varvayanis -
Well, they've not
sent a request for a. contract. I mean I assume if I
called them up and asked
what's going on
maybe they would talk to me, but they don't seem to
be too happy
dealing with
the Town Board
in Caroline as I understand it.
Atty Perkins - Nobody can get any response out of them.
Cl T Hatfield - I was trying to remember the history on this thing, and some of these
comments are triggering it back. There was a point three or four years ago where they just
decided they didn't want a contract: and they didn't want any public funds. That came up at a
meeting and I can't remember when or where, it's far enough back. Because we were
contracting with them and paying them.
Atty Perkins - We were contracting with them for fire service.
Cl Grantham - `chat's what I remember. They had a small fine contract.
Atty Perkins - As part of that contract they could also furnish ambulance service, but
the contract was for fire service. 0
pne 16 of 31
TB 1242 -01
Cl T Hatfield - Is that one still in place?
® Atty Perkins - No. For at least five years they have been sent contracts and never
returned them, and no response as to why. Peripherally I heard that the reason was because if
they signed a contract with the Town of Dryden and then gave them the information then
Dryden was going to bill whoever they transported from the Town of Dryden to a hospital. They
felt they were a volunteer ambulance and volunteer ambulances shouldn't be billing for the
service. Of course that's not the way the rest of the world works, but that's how they felt in
Slaterville.
Supv Varvayanis - But they aren't dealing with the'rolwm of Caroline either are they?
Atty Perkins - No.
Cl C Hatfield - So they just give them a free ride, like we did.
Supv Varvayanis - And if that's the way they want to do...
Cl C Hatfield - No problem.
Cl Grantham - It seems to me it's better for Town residents if the whole town is included
in the contract and it's probably better for you if you're covering the whole town.
Cl T Hatfield - That doesn't mean you can't continue to rely on what's currently the
practice with dispatch, but if something happens to that then you move to make sure there's
coverage. It was in keeping with the spirit of what we're trying to do.
® Cl Grantham - They can't subcontract though so how can they do that?
CI C Hatfield - In the contract they had before, if they cooperate with another, I have no
problem with that.
Cl T Hatfield - Me either.
D Abbey - Should this contract allow us to subcontract with Slaterville for that portion
of the Town?
Supv Varvayanis - We aren't allowed to allow subcontracting are %ve?
Atty Perkins - No, General Municipal Law 109.
Cl T
Hatfield -
But this
does allow you
to rely on, for lack of a better word I'll call
mutual aid
based on
dispatch
practices in the
County.
Supv Varvayanis - Since Slaterville can get there faster I think dispatch and Slaterville
and you all have a reason for doing that, it's just not an official contract. I think it's legal and
obviously Mahlon I hope does. He's listening to all this conversation and not saying anything
so...
Atty Perkins - The Town of Dryden Ambulatnce District includes the entire Town of
Dryden. You only have a choice of contracting for the entire Tol%m because you are only
contracting with one party. You can't get a contract with Slaterville. So if in fact through
matters out of your control a different ambulance is dispatched, as long as an ambulance is
® dispatched what do we care?
Page 17 of 31
TB 12 -12 -01
Cl Beck - Is there insurance ramifications?
Atty Perkins - It's State Law it's covered if there's a mutual aid or a dispatch. I've just 1W
drafted some proposed language for the last sentence in paragraph 3(a). This has to do with an
ambulance being out of service. In the event that any ambulance shall fail to meet the ALS
certification requirements for more than 48 consecutive hours Dryden Ambulance shall
immediately report the same in writing to the Town. I don't know if that addresses the issue or
not.
la Abbey - I can't say Mahlon. I'll take it back to the Board.
Cl T Hatfield - Did we resolve the issue on the audit, 6(e)?
Atty Perkins - You can either leave it the way it is, or if you are in favor of changing it so
that the Town would pay for it, it would read the Town reserves the right to require, at the
expense of the Town, an independent audit of the financial affairs of Dryden Ambulance in the
form, content and person or firm performing such audit shall be determined by the Town. Just
for the sake of discussion...
Supv
Varvayanis - ft's
so standard. Do you
want to change it for all the fire
departments
then? It would
be kind of ftmny to do
it for...
Cl T Hatfield - I don't know` I haven't looked at those, but here's what I'm thinking.
We're asking them to do a compilation, which costs a certain...
Atty Perkins - Can I correct one thing right here? That's not what we asked them for.
That's what they gave us. What the current contract: calls for is, prior to the payment of any
contract amount by the Town, Dryden Ambulance shall provide to the Town, at the expense of
Dryden Ambulance, an independent audit or review of the financial affairs of Dryden
Ambulance for such period as the Town may reasonably require. The form, content and person
performing such audit or review shall be subject to the prior approval of the Town. That's the
existing contract language. That's what is in place right now.
Cl T Hatfield - And what we have here is something quite different from that.
Supv Varvayani.s - Because that's what they wanted.
Cl T Hatfield - All right. My point being that we either ought to adopt that type of
language or figure out where we're going here because right now we are setting ourselves up to
pay two different firms to do at least the same base line work, and then add on top of that the
additional work of an audit. Because to do a compilation you do a certain level of work and
then it goes up the curve and tha.t.'s why the costs go up with it depending on the level of work
you want done and what type of audit you are preparing. If"you are going to do a broad based
audit you are looking at. somed -iing a whole lot different in terms of cost. than you are if you just
do an audit. If you want to do an audit, it will be a lot cheaper in the long run to have an audit
every year. It really will.
Supv Vaivayanis - But they're doing the compilation audit, we say that's what we're
going to do. This basically is if we think there's fraud then we have a right to at their expense
have an audit done. So you're saying if we think there's fraud lvc should still pay for it?
Cl T Hatfield - That would put them on notice in advance. There's no point in paying for
it twice is where I'm coming from.
Cl Beck - What kind of an audit is that?
Page 19 of 31
TB 12 -12-01
Supv Varvayanis - We've never called for this audit yet., even though...
Atty Perkins - Independent auditor review.
Cl Beck - So that's not a compilation audit?
Cl T Hatfield - No, that's one step higher, it isn't even a compilation.
Atty Perkins - You've never even required that. They want to provide what they've been
providing, which up to this point apparently has been fine, although there is a question about
the timely receipt of these things.
Cl Beck - But we've ahvays had that language.
Atty Perkins - For the last: several years.
Cl Beck - Read it again please.
Atty Perkins - Prior to the payment of any contract amount by the Town, Dryden
Ambulance shall provide to the Town at: the expense of Dryden Ambulance an independent
audit or review of the financial affairs of Dryden Ambulance for such period as the 'Town may
reasonably require. The form, content and person performing such audit: or review shall be
subject to the prior approval of the Town.
Cl Beck - And we've not enforced that.
® Atty Perkins - Never asked them.
Supv Varvayanis - Suddenly Tom's afraid that we're going to...
Cl T Hatfield - No, Mark, don't go down that road. That's not the issue at all here.
D Abbey - We're not afraid of an audit. Obviously we're sitting here, all of us in different
positions than last year and the year before and the year before, so things are going to change.
We have no problem with an audit.
Cl T Hatfield - I think the intelligent way to approach this is go back to the language
that's been there forever. Before you engage your accounting firm to prepare a compilation you
send the town a notice that you're preparing to do that and would the Town like a different
level of review than a compilation, yes or no. Then go down the road.
D Abbey - I'm not a bookkeeper Tom, so I may be talking off the record, but if we're
going to engage a CPA firm, don't they do things through the course of the year to establish
what level you're looking for at the end of the year?
Cl T Hatfield - It depends on what type of engagement letter you have with them.
D Abbey - My point is if we're going to be required to have something at the end of the
year, then I want to make sure it's going to be satisfactory starting out because 1 don't want to
pay for 11 months of something to turn around and have to pay for 12 more of something else.
Our intent is to continue using the same CPA firm that we've been using for the last five years.
And I believe we've been giving the Town the reports on a timely basis, other than this year.
® Joe During did have a heart attack and we didn't get them until June or July of this year. This
Page 19 of 31
TB 12- 12-01
is the latest it's ever been. And I brought it up here when we did give them, like I gave you
Monday night. 40
Atty Perkins - The timing of this I think is one of the things that you've got to discuss
here, because beginiv.n €, January 1 Dryden Ambulance has a new responsibility and that's
billing and handling funds. And the reason that the proposed contract: language is what it is
is so that at t:he end of the contract period you «Till be able to determine whether or not you feel
there's been compliance with the terms of the contract and the money is properly accounted
for. Obviously if you feel based on the compilation and everything else you've received, the
monthly reports, the deposits and so forth, that you don't need that, that's fuse. But if there's
some question about the billing for something else that needs to be resolved, the taxpayers are
going to have to pay to resolve that. One way of looking at it is if the record keeping is good
enough, and there is no reason to require it, then the contract: operator's done his job.
However, if the records aren't available, aren't comprehensible, aren't filed timely, aren't.
consistent, don't start and end at the same points, whatever...
Cl T Hatfield - You're going to know that: a lot sooner ifian the end of the year. You'll
know the first. quarter. These guys have volunteered to provide that on a monthly basis. I
think well know that real fast; the board will know that pretty fast.
Att_v Perkins - And the question is basically if they screwed up, who pays? The contract
operator or the taxpayer? I emphasize if it's screwed up.
Supv Varvayanis - Again, it's the language we've had in several contracts for years and
it's never been imposed, and I don't know why it becomes an issue now. I thought we were
bar..kpcdaling from the old contract by giving them a lot more flexibility.
Atty Perkins - I thought that's what you told me to do. 0
Cl T Hatfield - In some ways we are because %vc're talking about compilation not review
or audit, and we're saying that that's going to be acceptable. The language which is in the
current contract states that that has to be done prior to receipt of any monies for the next.
contract year. Obviously in this situation that cannot apply because you've got a start up
operation. So the language has to be played with on some basis. I like that particular
language, frankly, that we've been using, with the exception of the timing issue for a start up
operation. And then the question of communications. I think compilation works fine. I think
you can state that a compilation works fine in a normal, ordinary course of business. The
Town Board knows very quickly whether or not the reports that are corning monthly are going
to be acceptable to the 'Board, whether or not you're being good caretakers of public funds.
Obviously you need the ability to take corrective action if not. I think you could be looking at
something a little more drastic than an audit: if it's apparent that there's a problem. I don't
know how you boil that into language. 1 just don't think this captures what I think the spirit or
the intent is very well. I think that's the concern. 1 think everybody's sort of on the same page,
but i don't know how to say it. The simplest thing I've seen is what Mahlon suggested. You
put at the expense of the Town in there. If that doesn't work for the Board, go back to the
other language, start with what we've got now, take care of the timing issue, and say in lieu of
request from Town, provide audit or review statements, a compilation will be accepted. That
x %could be a way to take that existing contract language and sort of boil it down. I think it
would be satisfactory all the way around.
Supv Varvayanis -
You're leaving
that basically the same
as this in that we say it's
accepted and then we get
it and we have
suspicions and we can
still with that language come
back and require them to
do...
0
Page 20 of 3 .1
T8 12 -12-01
Cl T Hatfield - My point is you're not going to get suspicions on a compilation. You're
is going to get suspicions out of a lack of information or accurate data., or if you have people
coming to you and saying hey I paid this bill and it didn't show up on your report. On a
compilation all they do is take management's information and put it in the form of financial
statements.
D Abbey - I don't understand. The collection of funds is going to end up here with our
financial statements. The money is going to go back to the district anyway. If we're worried
about mismanagement of district money, it's not going in our compilated statement anyway.
Atty Perkins - That's why its important for the Town to reserve that right. The only
issue here is who pays for it. You have that right now, you're still going to have that right. You
really just need to get to the issue of who is going to pay for it.
Supv Varvayanis - I just don't see any reason to change it.
Cl C Hatfield - The fire contracts have got the same thing in. Of course this is a little
different than a fire contract.
Supv Varvayanis - I just don't see any reason to change it.
Cl C Hatfield - All our
fire
contracts have
got
the same thing in. Of course this is a little
different than a fire contract.
We
need to figure
out
something so we
can get it going.
Cl T Hatfield - Well, instead of saying at the expense of the Town, why don't we say it's
an expense of the district. It's district funds. If they've got to be prepared to handle the cost of
an audit on an annual basis...
®
Atty Perkins - Tom, the contract is made on behalf of the district, so it doesn't matter
how you say it, it's the same funds. That doesn't get us anywhere. It's really a question of
whether the taxpayers are going to pay for it or the contract operator is going to pay for it.
That's the issue.
Cl Grantham - I think if we call for an audit from somebody that we're contracting with
it means that we have some doubts and the taxpayers shouldn't be paying for it. I think that's
true in the case of anyone we contract with for anything. If we contract with somebody to build
a building for us, we shouldn't be paying for audits of what they do with our money.
D Abbey - You don't audit somebody that you're contracting with anyway. If a service is
being provided by the...
Supv Varvayanis - That's right. So what are you worried about?
D Abbey - Then take the sentence out.
Supv Varvayanis - But the sentence is in all the contracts.
D Abbey - Then we'll be here discussing the fire contract too probably.
Supv Varvayanis - Not if this Town Board were tough and said this is our standard
language; this is what we are going to do; take it or leave it.
D Abbey - I can take it back to six other people, Mark. That was a concern. We
41 addressed it the other night. You didn't express these feelings the other night when you were
talking to al of us.
Page 21 of 31
TB 12 -124)1
Supv Varvayanis - The language was that you were required to give an independent
audit. You said you didn't want that, you wanted a compilation audit. The language now
allows for a. compilation audit. This is the language that I thought you said you wanted. The
language says you will provide a compilated audit and that will be okay. Isn't that what you
said you wanted?
D Abbey - I don't believe that last sentence about reserving the right was in that copy
that we had.
Supv Varvayanis - No. In the copy you had it said you would do it, not that we reserve
the right.
D Abbey - The thing is this was the draft that was given to us that I presented to our
board of directors. This draft that I've got tonight - -there are things different than what we
discussed. That sentence was not in that first draft i don't believe.
Supv Varvayanis - Read what was in the first draft.
Atty Perkins - Prior to the final payment of the contract amount by the Town, Dryden
Ambulance shall provide to the Town at the expense of Dryden Ambulance, an independent
audit or review of the financial affairs of Dryden Ambulance for the period of this agreement.
The form, content and person performing such audit or review shall be subject to the prior
approval of the Town. That was the first draft.
D Abbey - And that's what we took exception to that we discussed as a Board the other
night. And I crossed it out on your copy or Mark's copy.
Supv Varvayanis - I've got it here. You crossed it out. You said you didn't want an
independent audit, you want a compilated audit, and that you didn't want whoever did the
compilated audit to be by someone we had prior approved, but by any qualified CPA firm that
you wanted. And we gave you that right.
D Abbey -
through eleven =
done in the past,
audit done, we're
that. It's not fair
Mark, we have no p:
onths of work thinki
which is our intent.
not going to pay the
to us,
roblern with an audit. What I want to avoid is for us to go
ng we're going to provide a compilated audit, like we've
But to have you come back and say we want a certified
$10,000 or $8,000 that it would cost us to accomplish
Cl Grantham - No, the only way that we would do that is if we had some suspicion that
something was very wrong. And then we would have a fiscal responsibility to the Town to
require that.
D Abbey - Absolutely.
Cl Grantham - And we aren't going to know in January that you're going to do such and
such in November. But if we suspect that a contractor is doing something they are not
supposed to be doing, why should we make the taxpayers pay for an audit to find that out?
Jack Bush - Can you base that on whether you actually find a problem. If a problem is
found that they would incur the expense?
Supv
Varvayanis - Then
you have to say what's a problem and what's not.. Anyone
who's
read
an audit
knows the
accountant always finds
a problem.
Page 22 of 31
TB 1242 -01
Atty Perkins - The other way you can do it, and this is just a suggestion, is that you can
® say okay, if the Town wants an audit we'll pay for it, and now we're telling you that we're going
to have an audit at the end of 2002 so be ready. That's the other way to approach it.
Cl Grantham - That's fine.
Atty Perkins - It's just a suggestion.
D Abbey - Say that again Mahlon.
Atty Perkins - The Town will agree to pay for the audit, and if you need notice that
there's going to be an audit, the Town will give you notice on January 1st we're going to audit
your books next Spring.
Bill Ackroyd - And you're going to pay for it.
Atty Perkins - And well pay for it.
D Abbey - What he's really saying is that we're going to incur more accounting expenses
to be prepared for a certified audit.
Cl T Hatfield - But it won't be marginally that much difference as long as you know
you're going at it up front. That was the point I was trying to drive at. You set your systems
up and you know you're going to get audited, and you...
D Abbey - Again, I'm not an accountant, Tom, and...
® Cl T Hatfield - I understand. That was really the point I was driving at and Mahlon just
hit it on the head.
B Ackroyd - I don't think the issue is whether we have an audit. We have nothing to
fear by an audit. It's just that it appears from the language, and I'm no attorney or
accountant, it appears that the way it reads is that we are now providing you a compilation
audit and we figure it will cost us $2,000 a year. The risk to us is, and I think all the board of
directors of Dryden Ambulance is trying to protect us from you, at the 11th hour, saying we
want a full blown audit and you're going to pay for it, and we've got to spend $15,000.
Cl T Hatfield - What Mahlon proposed solves the problem.
B Ackroyd - That's what I'm
saying. We
just trying
to protect ourselves from somebody
at the last minute saying full audit,
you pay for
it, and we've
got to cough up $15,000 or
whatever
it is
I don't
know what
a
full
audit
even costs.
Supv Varvayanis - But again, that's the contract you've had for years. We've never
required it. Why are you afraid of it now?
D Abbey - I said we're not afraid of it, Mark.
B Ackroyd - Is it a trust factor? Maybe, I don't know.
Supv Varvayanis - Well, if you're not afraid of it, why are you here arguing that you
don't want to have that risk?
® D Abbey - At our expense.
Page 23 of 31
cost.
T8 12 -12-01
Supv Varvayanis - Right. You're afraid of the risk.
D Abbey - We're not. 0
Supv Varvayanis - Okay, if you're not afraid of the risk, then it's a cost issue.
Cl T Hatfield - It's a cost issue.
Supv Varavayanis - I know it's a. cost issue. They're afraid of taking on the risk of the
Cl T Hatfield - I don't think they are at all. You've put certain things into the contract...
Supv Varvayanis - If they're not afraid of taking the risk on the language as it's written,
let's leave it as it's written.
Cl T Hatfield - The board can do what it wants to. And they've got to go back and
approve it, and it's a. process of negotiation.
D Abbey - What I'd rather know up front, so that I can go back to my board, is you tell
us what you are going to require. And I don't know, Tom, maybe you can give us an idea of
what is the difference in cost for us to be prepared through the course of a year for a certified
audit versus the compilated audit that we're giving you.
Cl T Hatfield -
If you spend $1,000 preparing for
an audit it'd be
a
lot of money. If you
spent
$1,000 in the course of a year getting ready for an
audit it would
be
a, lot of money.
B Ackroyd - How much would an audit cost? 0
Cl T
Hatfield -
It
would depend. If you get a local firm you're probably looking at $8,000
to $10,000.
If you go
to
a big eight firm, $15,000.
B Ackroyd - There's the rub right there.
Cl T Hatfield - It depends.
B Ackroyd - We're not prepared for an $8,000 to $10,000 cost.
Supv Varvayanis - Well then you're not financially responsible because that's been the
same language in your contracts for years. There's no difference no compared to what there
used to be, except now we're saying we'll take the compilated audit.
D Abbey - Things have changed over the last couple years, Mark.
Supv Varvayanis - When? What you're saying is you don't trust me. You think I'm
going to go out of my way to ...
D Abbey - I'm not saying that at all.
Supv Varvayanis - What are you saying then?
D Abbey - I'm saying we're drawing up a contract. We knew there was old stuff in there
that needed to be clarified and that all we're trying to do is clarify what we're trying to do. The
other thing we need to clarify is the Town's going to adopt or may from time to time amend
rules and regulations. What are they? What are we adopting? Do we know yet? Are we
Page 24 of 31
TB 12- 12-01
adopting a fee schedule? That's not a problem. What else are we adopting? It's tough for us to
® say we're going to sign a document when we don't know what we've adopted yet. We want to
hash this out. We've to hash it out, but we want to make sure we're all on the same
wavelength going in January first so we aren't going through this fighting every month,
because that's not our intent. Nor do I want to see it any more than you guys do.
CI T Hatfield - Existing fee structure and mileage fees and things have got to be
provided.
Supv Varvayanis - They've already got all that, I assume. Don't you?
D Abbey - You know more about what you've got than I know what you've got.
Supv Varvayanis - No, 1 said what do you have?
D Abbey - As far as what.?
Supv Varvayanis - He was talking about the mileage and the fee structure. You've got
all that don't you?
know.
D Abbey - I don't personally, but I'm sure the paramedics do.
B Ackroyd - Somebody asked me that tonight, what our rate schedule is, and I don't
D Abbey - I couldn't tell you today what you bill for.
Cl C Hatfield - That ought to be figured out. I'd agree with that.
B Ackroyd - The District imposed those fees, right, through...
Cl T Hatfield - A Town Board resolution. That can be provided. You're right, in terms of
a contract, you probably need it:.
Cl Grantham - So which paragraph is that?
D Abbey - 4 (a), the billing.
Cl Grantham - Can you just say something, Mahlon, about see appendix A or
something, and then have that as a list of the current fees which would be $300 for basic
service and $350 for advanced service, and $7.50 for mileage.
D Abbey - That paragraph, is that what we're referring to, is the fee schedule?
Cl T Hatfield - Yes, but there should be an appendix or whatever. That's reasonable.
B Ackroyd - Will comply with such rules and regulations. We need to know what those
rules and regulations are. What are we agreeing to?
Cl Grantham - It's also the business of billing someone three times and then dropping
it.
D Abbey - Can we have an appendix or something?
Atty Perkins - I don't think you need an appendix. It's the Town's obligation as a matter
Page 25 of 31
T13 12- 12411
of law to adopt rules and regulations. If we need to clarify it and re -adopt them, we can do that
right along here. We can pull together what the current way they're operating is, and just put
it on a simple sheet of paper. 0
Cl Grantham - Okay, that's fine.
Supv Varvayanis - They're a matter of public record.
Cl C Hatfield - That's what you're asking for?
D Abbey - Just so we know what they are.
B Ackroyd - What do you want us to bill, how much do you want us to bill for, and how
many times do you want it done, do you want to go to collection for such and such a value, and
then we'll comply.
here?
D Abbey= Mahlon, we are billing on behalf of the Town, correct?
Atty Perkins - Town of Dryden Ambulance District, correct.
D Abbey - And assuming that large portion of the remittance will be coming back to
Atty Perkins - The Town of Dryden Ambulance District.
B Ackro-yd - It all will, right?
Atty Perkins - Right.
D Abbey - How is the money going to be handled when it comes back to here, before it
comes to the people responsible.
Atty Perkins - Dryden Ambulance will collect and remit to the Town, or at the written
direction of the Town, deposit to the Town bank account, all monies received for ambulance
service furnished persons requiring the same. Remittance or deposits shall be no later than 72
hours from when received.
D Abbey - I understand that. What I'm saying is that. money is coming in to this
building..
Atty Perkins - Or at our direction deposited.
D Abbey - What I'm asking though is, I don't know who gets the Town's mail. I'm
assuming every day checks come in for the District on somebody's bill. What happens to that
money when it comes in here?
B Hollenbeck - The paramedics pick it up.
Supv Varvayanis - The paramedics have a box out there. We just drop it in there and
when they come and get it...
D Abbey - And that practice will continue? They record the payment and then it gets
deposited to the Town? I mean the money isn't directly deposited without the paramedic
knowing it? 0
Page 26 of 31
TB 1242 -01
Supv Varvayanis - No.
® Atty Perkins - The contract operator will be collecting and handling all the funds and
giving a record of that to the Town.
B Ackroyd - So should we change our remit to address to our address versus the Town's
address?
Atty Perkins - Whatever works for you. That's your contractual responsibility. It's a
nuts and bolts thing.
Cl C Hatfield - It'd be the smartest thing to have it come to you guys and save the step
in between.
Atty Perkins - Have everything remitted to a post office box if you want.
D Abbey - A separate post office box would probably work the best.
Cl Grantham - Although you'll have to pay attention for awhile because some people will
still send it here.
D Abbey - Every once in a while we'll get an evelope and a check from an insurance
company for Town of Dryden Ambulance District with our PO box on it. Then I just give it to
them to record.
Atty Perkins - Did we ever resolve 6(b), who's going to pay for the audit?
Supv Varvayanis - My position was we should leave the language the way it is. I hadn't
heard anyone...
Cl C Hatfield - And accept their compilated audit. I think we'd be happy with that.
Who did you say is your accountant?
D Abbey - Joseph During.
Cl C Hatfield - He's qualified to do audits anyway isn't he?
D Abbey - He's a certified CPA.
C1 C Hatfield - I've got no problems that they're reports won't be perfect enough that we
won't have to have an audit. As far as who's going to pay if we do, the Town ends up paying for
probably again no matter how it works out. If we leave the contract the same, with all fire
contracts being the same, well, I don't know.
Atty Perkins - Did we resolve what I'm supposed to do?
Cl Grantham - Leave it the same.
Cl Beck - I guess we're going to leave it Mahlon, and if it can't be accepted, then it will
have to be another issue, and we're probably going to have to revise every other contract we
have.
TOWN CLERK
® Board members have received the monthly report.
Page 27 of 31
TB 12 -12 -01
RESOLUTION #228 - APPROVE MINUTES
Cl C Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby approves the minutes of the meetings held
November 7, 2001 and November 14, 2001.
2nd Cl Grantham
Roll Call Vote
C1 Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Clerk did not ask the board to approve the November 9 minutes provided to the board
as they were committee minutes.
B Hollenbeck stated she would like to appoint Bertha McGory again as Deputy Tax
Collector to assist during tax collection.
RESOLUTION 0229 - APPOINT B MCGORY DEPUTY TAR COLLECTOR
Cl C Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
'RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby appoints Bertha McGory as Deputy Tax
Collector for 2002.
2nd Cl T Hatfield
Roll Call Vote
Cl Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
B Hollenbeck distributed to the Board and Town Attorney the following items with
respect to the Recreation Partnership: list of accomplishments, By -Laws and Agreement as
finally revised. The Recreation Partnership would like to have the agreement and by -laws
approved by all municipalities in January.
ENGINEERING
No report.
ZONING OFFICER
Board members have monthly report.
Kevin Ezell stated he visited Corning and seen the TIPS program in use. It is a very
good program and he Ekes it a lot. The Village of Dryden has indicated that they would be
willing to share in the expense of the program, and K Ezell will give a presentation at the
Village's next board meeting.
HIGHWAY
Page 28 of 31
TB 12 -12-01
Jack Bush - For
the record, I'd
like to thank Tom and
Ron
for the last few years of their
support on the Highway
Committee.
Other than that, I don't
have
anything.
Cl Beck - You've come a long with the Highway. It was in kind of disarray when you
started. Even though we've had our labor problems, the operation is somewhat different than
it was four years ago.
Supv Varvayanis stated he had received a complaint about 836 Dryden Road, a State
Road. There is supposedly some blockage in the ditch causing erosion and endangering the
pavement. J Bush will talk to the State about it.
DISCUSSION
The Board has received an application from Steve Bisson to serve on the Conservation
Advisory Council. Cl Grantham noted that he had some good GIS experience that the Council
could use, and they looking forward to getting someone else on.
RESOLUTION #230 - APPOINT CAC
- BISSON
Supv Varvayanis offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby appoints Steven Bisson to the Conservation
Advisory Council, for a term to expire December 31, 2002.
2nd Cl Grantham
Roll Call Vote
Cl Beck Yes
C1 T Hatfield Yes
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Supv Varvayanis explained that there were several transfers of funds necessary and
board reviewed them.
RESOLUTION #231 = TRANSFER FUNDS
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked that it be adopted:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby authorizes the following transfers:
$1610 from A3510.401 (enumeration) to: A8745.400 Dr. Crispell Dam maintenance
($610), A8745.401 Lake Rd Projejct ($500), A8745.403 Hoag /Harvey project ($500) (Total
$1610).
$5,850 to increase zoning fees to: B8010.42 zoning contractual ($300), B3620.4 code
contractual ($550), and B8010. sp. 400 zoning tower ($5,000) (Total $5,850)
$8,150 from SM9060.8 (paramedics health) to SM4540.1 I paramedics overtime
($6,000), SM4540.401 Dryden postage ($210) and SM9030.8 social security ($2,000) (Total
$82150)
2nd Cl Beck
Roll Call Vote Cl Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Page 29 of 31
T8 12 -12-01
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
RESOLUTION #232 - AUTHORIZE SUPEVISOR TO SIGN AMBULANCE CONTRACT
Cl Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby authorizes the Supervisor to execute the
contract with Dryden Ambulance, Inc.
2nd Cl Beck
Roll Call Vote
Cl Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Supv Varvayanis Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Supv Varvayanis stated that Cathy Valentino and Mary Russell would like the Town of
Dryden to support the Town of Ithaca in its lawsuit against the County.
Atty Perkins - The Town of Ithaca brought an action against the County of Tompkins
over the tower issues. We were a party to that one also. In the same lawsuit they asked for a
determination that the County was subject to the Town of Ithaca's site plan review for the
addition on the highway garage on Bostwick Road. It was a determinaton by the Town of
Ithaca whether they were subject to it, and the Town felt they were and they asked the Court
based on the Monroe County case to make that determination. And as I read the decision, and
I haven't re -read it recently and Mark will probably help me because I'm sure he knows, but
Judge Relihan basically said he vas going to decide whether or not the County was subject to
it and he muddled through some of the tests that the Court of Appeals set forth in the Monroe
County case and made a determination that the County wasn't subject to the Town of Ithaca's
site plan review. The real issue is whether or not he made a. mistake of laws in, one,
determining himself that they weren't subject to it, and two, whether he abused his discretion
in how he analyzed those factors in favor of the County.
Supv Varvayanis - The Town of Ithaca is appealing and they would like any other
municipality who's interested to sign on because they consider the issues to be the same,
although the facts only involve their one Town. Mahlon brought up that it would be a stretch
to say that the Town has any financial interest. Cathy countered well if the Town has no legal
standing, the Judge will through it out and we won't have any costs. I didn't come back to you
with that one.
Atty Perkins - I'm not sure that the Town has any standing at all. I'm sure it doesn't.
On the appeal anyway, because it doesn't have anything at issue.
Supv Varvayanis - Okay, but she's looking for any sign of support. Is there something
we could do?
Atty Perkins - Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I'm just saying I don't know how you
could spend, in good faith, taxpers money to fight what essentially is a Town of Ithaca battle.
On the other hand, you certainly have an interest: in the outcome of it, because it's going to be
precedent and it's going to affect all Towns and all Cities and Villages that have to deal with
Counties.
Supv Varvayanis - How do the express our support:? I'm sure you all know I'm not an
Page 30 of 3.1
•
TB 12 -12 -01
attorney, but what I objected to I think from what I read the Judge does have the discretion,
but what he did is he made decision off the record, he drove out gave it a quick look and said
well, this is what I see. He didn't give Ithaca a chance to come back. He didn't see any houses
nearby, there were. Maybe he didn't slow down enough to see them. There are several issues
like that.
Atty Perkins - You certainly could pass a resolution in support of the appeal on the
grounds that the Town believes that the Court made a mistake, that the position of the Town of
Ithaca we believe is correct and that we would hope that the Appellate Court will overturn it
and apply the factors set forth by a Court of Appeals in the Monroe County case in a way that's
favorable to most municipalities.
C1 C Hatfield - Well the County's building already aren't they?
Atty Perkins - Yes, it will be moot by the time this is heard probably.
Supv Varvayanis - There's still screening and drainage and...
Atty Perkins - There are still site plan issues there.
Supv Varvayanis - And the Town has said all along they didn't object to the building,
they didn't object to the footprint, they just wanted some control over runoff basically. That's
why I find Relihan's decision that the Town has no interest in runoff to be interesting. If you
don't care what the County does, what do you do care what the nice gentlemen we had today
does.
Atty Perkins - If you like I'd be glad to try to draft a resolution of support for your
consideration at your next meeting.
Cl Grantham - We even have sort a similar issue. The reason Susan Boutros is back
here now is because the County SEQRed that whole project and forgot to count us an involved
agency. So here she is unable to say that she has all the permits necessary from the Town of
Dryden. That's why she's back in front of us. She may have had to come back in front of us
anyway, but she could have done that several months ago if they had counted us as an
involved agency. Bostwick Road isn't specifically our issue, but it's not as if we have nothing at
stake here.
Atty Perkins will draft a resolution for the next meeting.
On motion of Cl T Hatfield, seconded by Cl Grantham, and unanimously approved, the
board adjourned at 10:55 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
A 4 -%
/r,16 ,
Bambi L. Hollenbeck
Town Clerk
Page 31 of 31