HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999-10-12T$ 10 -12 -99
TOWN OF DRYDEN
I
O rr BOARD +
,I 00wher 12,1999
upv Schug opened the meeting at 6:55 p.m. Membem and guests participated in a
moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance,
Present; Cl Ronald Beck, Cl Thomas Hatfield, C1 Charles Hatfield, Cl Deborah
Grantham, Supeivisor ..Fames Schug and Attorney Mahlon h'- Perkins.
Supv $chug - I would like to take a. moment of everybody's tune right now and I'd like to
publicly apologize to anyone who feels that I treated him or her disrespectfully, or who may
have felt mistreated; this was never my intent. I would never and have never taken advant
of the trust the public has placed in me for the last ten years. Most of X11 I would like to
apolog a to my family for the grief and hardship they are suffering because of the current
campaign's half- truths, xuma rs and innuendo. Thank you
Ron Beck is here and he h as a. brief statement.
1 Beck -1'd like to apologize to the Board. Due to a medical problem I'm not going to
be able to attend very much of this meeting, but I would like to request that the item
concerning the HUD grant program be moved forward so that 1 can participate in that
deliberation, if that is possible, after w ich 1 will have to excuse myself. Again, I'm sorry.
upv $chug -If that is the case, I will excuse myself now, (upv $Chug left the room)
1 C Hatfi d (acting as Deputy Supervisor) -- Mahlon, would you bring us up to date on
this-
Atty Perkins - I have a very short nxemora;ndum and attachment to hand out to the
Board (distributed) . I'll go over this briefly with you. As you are aware, the _UTXited States
Department of Housing and Urban Development has awarded the Town a Small Cities
ommunity development block grant for $400,0009 An application was submitted last January
by the Town an behalf of Cayuga Press for their expansion project. The award of the grant
requires the Tow�i to adopt a resolution accepting the grant and answering or responding to
certain inquiries which are made in the letter which notified the Town officially of the grant
concer mig potential conflict of interest because the Town Supervisor is a minority shareholder
in Cayuga Press and because it is a family -owned business. That issue wM be deterrn;ned by
HUD. They have specific guidelines determining that and they have asked me to get together
some information and send on to them. What they have requested that the Board do is pass a
resolution accepting the grant. Obviously they aren't going to release the funds until they are
satisfied that any issues with respect to any potential conflict of interest has been resolved and
evtm if that is an adverse determination about that, the Town still gets the money if they accept
it. They would then have the money to loan out for other approved community development
block grant projects. Someone would have to come forward with the appropriate project, but
the Town would already have the money. There are guidelines for these kinds of thzrngs- So I
have composed a simple resolution for your consideration so that the Deputy Supervisor after
the resolution- can sign the agreement with HUD. They won't release the funds until they have
made their dete+•Mi ations about any conflict of in issues, and again, if it is adverse to the
Cayuga Press application the Town still gets the morkey-
Beck = If we fail to pass this resolution, the Town irrevocably loses the money
Cl completely?
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TB 1042 -99
Atty Perkins - HUD will withdraw the money if you don't accept it and sign the
agreement. The agreement basically says that you will accept the money, you will disburse it
or loan it out for approved programs and comply with all their reporting requirements. You will
comply with all of the HUD regulations about reporting.
Cl T Hatfield - So this is like the grant that the Village of Dryden has received and the
one the Town of Virgil has received and other communities have received for community
development funding.
Atty Perkins - I can't personally speak to what the other grants are about, but this is a
grant that was made to the Town for economic development. This should be distinguished
from the housing rehabilitation grants that we have received. This is additional money. This is
all money that is a grant and the Town loans it out and it gets paid back.
Cl Beck - Based on additional job creation and that sort of thing.
Atty Perkins - All the criteria is established by HUD. If it doesn't go to Cayuga Press it
can go to some other project that qualifies under the HUD regulations.
Cl C Hatfield - Does anybody on the board have any questions?
Cl Grantham - If it is an adverse decision, how are other applications processed?
Atty Perkins - There will be another round of notices in the paper for people who are
interested in applying for a loan. They'll have to submit their application. It will be reviewed
by County Planning just as the Cayuga Press application was to see if it meets the HUD
guidelines. It would always be subject to HUD's approval.
C1 Grantham - It would be, okay. They have their own federal guidelines, but will they
also be looking at state requirements?
Atty Perkins - Yes, as part of their review on the conflict of interest: issue.
Cl T Hatfield - Given that we have to either accept it or lose it, I would move that we
adopt this resolution.
Cl Grantham - I would like to say that I guess because of the investigation into the
conflict of interest that 1 feel reassured that this will be handled properly and legally.
Cl Beck - All of us have been concerned with that and are assured that another
organization will be making that determination. (seconded the motion)
Cl T Hatfield - Was there ever any question?
RESOLUTION 0 174 - ACCEPT HUD GRANT
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
WHEREAS, the Town of Dryden has heretofore applied to the U.S. Department of
Housing and Urban Development (BUD) for a Small Cities Community Development Block
Grant, and
WHEREAS, HUD has notified the Town that its application has been approved in the
amount of $400,000, and 4
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TB 10 42 -99
WHEREAS, certain issues remain to be determined by HUD before HUD will authorise
the U.S. Treasury to release Ow funds to the Town,
NOW, THEREFORE, 13E IT RESOLVED $Y THE TOWN BOARD OF THE TOWN OF
DRYDEN AS FOLLOWS;
1 _ The Deputy Town Supervisor is authorized to sign the ending Approval/
Agreement with HUD,
2, The Town shall comply with all HUD regulations includitng those identified by
HUD as necessary for HUD to resolve uiuy potential conflict of interest issues_
211t, Cl Beclz
Roll Call Vote Cl Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl GrandiLam Yes
Cl Beck Again, I apvlagize for r1Z absence tonight and appreciate your indulgence.
Thank you very much.
C1 C Hatfield - Send Jim back in please,
CITIZENS PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR
Sups Schug - I4iargie Malepe would like to speak to us,
14largie 1llalepe - My name is Margie alepe, I live at West I4ialloryville Road in Freevle.
My husband George and I live there. I'd like to thank the board, all of you, for listening to m
concerns and questions last month and following up thereafter. I especially would like to
thank Mr. Tom Hatfield and Mr. Charlie Hatfield for the time, energy and commitment that
they have taken to address my concems. I asked for your help in educating me and the
process has began. I have learned that there are several sides to every story and it is my
responsibility to look, listen and learn. I has become obvious that you can't believe everything
you hear or read and I hope that more citizens will do the same,
Cl C Hatfield � Thank you,
Tom Seeley, 332 Hurd Road - I have lived in Dryden since 1954, nearly 50 years, except
far the period of 1974 -86 when I went away to school, and God willing Ill be living here
another 50 years. 1 Ue it. I have had job offers in many parts of the country and have turned
them all dawn because I like living here. I hope it's clear from this background that I am not
some transient irxr3,iwiduaL I've got a history and a commitment to this place. Back in
September my wife Robin and I submitted a letter requesting that the Town restore the
centerline of Hurd Road to its original position, its proper position. As we stated in our letter,
the Town apparently had no legal right to widen Hurd Road or to move the centerline when
they did this aso -and 1992. I have photos tonight with nxe ( submitted to Board members;
retain6d in Hurd Road fde) that show how Hurd Road appeared izi Fall of 1988 and how it
appears now, Fall of 1999. You ran see from these photos how the road has moved_ In 1985
when I built my House up there I planted, sugar maples along the road there, measured theca
off the road thinking the Town had a right of way, measured IJaem off that right of way so they
are 23 feet off the centerline of the road. The Trees haven't moved. The road sure has. The
road has been widened, the canterlirie has moved to the west in the course of the road work
that's been done. If this continues these maple trees will staft having some problems. The tar
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was applied around 1992 and the widening of Hurd Road is continuing. Every year the Town
extends the shoulder further over on our side by plowing further and furthex off the road and
by spreading fill up to and around the txtuiks of these trees. This also in the dram;age
ditches so there isn't enough room far the water to drain and it tends to collect there in the
Spring. Then the Town comes along and cleans out our land to widen the drainage ditches.
This damages the roots of the trees that are near the road and eventuaUy will kill them- it has
killed some of them already- When the trees die the road becomes wider still. Given that the
Town has no right to widen the road any further, this is clearly an illegal action, We are asking
that the centerline of Hurd Road he restored to what it was before the illegal widening
occurred, We know where the centerline used to be because we have the data M our 1988
survey_ We assume the Town had no intent to illegally take our land, We are simply asking
that the mistake, be corrected- We own about 2500 feet of roadway along Hurd Road, so they
have taken several thousand square feet, about 5000, We are also asking that the continu l
widen r�& of Hurd Road by extending the shoulders stop. Thank you very much.
Supv $chug - So you know, Tom, the concerns of your letter from the attorney were
turnery over to our attorney and hopefully latex on we can have some sort of an answer if
Mahlon has had a chance to look at it.
T Seeley - Later tonight, or later in the year?
Atty Nrldna - I'd like to report to the Board in Executive Sessian. Since it comes
apparently with the threat of litigation_ I think it is properly it subject far that. Then you can
make a determination of what you wart to do after we discuss it,
Supv Schug - Well let you kriow. Is there anyone else who would We to speak?
Robin Seeley - I dont think there has been any threat of litigation,
Atty Perkins - you do have an attorney, don't you?
R Seeley - Yeah. I don't think anyone is threatening to stye- ['m Robin Seeley, also 832
Hurd Road. I just want to poiat out that all over Tompkins County, people are talking about
tralEc calming. A lot of money is being spent on devising ways to get through 1rdf c off of
residential roads, ajrxd to slow it dawn. In 1988 we had a beautiful road that was safe for our
kids and pets and was traffic calmed. Few people took Hurd Road to get to Ithaca from Dryden
because the road was unpaved and only about 18 feet wide with little or no shoulder. Now that
the road has been widened to 20 feet with 10 foot shoulders, its like a NAS AR raceway. Gars
came d.ovm the hill at 40 mph or more and only stop at the bottom at Ellis Hollow Road. In text
years time I'll bet well be sitting here talldng about spending money on traffic caring Hurd
Road. What a waste since we have a road that. was perfectly traffic calmed in 1988. I am
asking the Board to pass a resolution recogxiiAng that the Town of I yderx has no deeds to
Hurd Road, Hunt Hill Road, and Ellis Hollow Creels Road and thus there should be no more
widening of these roads or their shoulders- I am also asking for a resolution directing the Town
Clerk to prepare a list of all roads in the 'Town of Dryden, identi.fyir g which roads the Town
owns or has deeds to, and those that it does not own as of August 1999. And firially I am
asking for a resolution from the Board that whenever road widening is planned that those
plans be made public at least 30 days mi advarn at a Town Board meeting and that the Town
follow EQR 12► fax any road project. The reason is because these road l projects are not simply
housekmping tasks undertaken by the Highway Department, road projects like widening and
tree cutting have large and significant impacts and neighborhood character and traffic loads
and speeds - The decision to widen a road should be public and discussed with residents so
that we can compare the impacts and cash of road widening with the benefits of road
Widening. Thank you very much.
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TB 10-12-99
I also have some comments from another resident who wasn't able to be here tonight.
® Read following memo from Charles Pearman.
TO: Dryden Town Board
FROM: Charles W. Pearman
398 Ellis Hollow Creek Road
Ithaca, N.Y. 14850
(Town of Dryden)
SUBJECT: Highway Department
I own 1110 feet of frontage on either side of Ellis Hollow Creek Road at the above address.
One day in the winter of 1988 we came home to find the 8 foot hedge all across the front of our house on Ellis
Hollow Creek Road cut down to within 3" of the ground. The highway department had also cut down twelve
trees well,away from the shoulder of the road, down by the end of the pasture — one of them 31 feet from the
centerline. Randv Riker, as acting Superintendent, apologized and said it had been a mistake. (Though a crew
member said later that they were never told this.)
Shortly thereafter the crew came back. The foreman agreed that it would be sufficient to cut down only
branches which hung out over the road, of trees in a row between the house and the barn, and not any trees
themselves. When we came out again the crew had cut down completely a white ash 16" in diameter, in that
row of trees.
A couple of weeks later, we inspected the other side of the road with Randy Riker and he agreed that the
department would only cut trees or bushes that were growing in the drainage ditch, and specified exactly what
would be cut. When later we heard the saw and went out we found that the first free the crew cut down was a
® young healthily growing elm which was not in the drainage ditch. In all these cases the department apologized
for a mistake, apparently due at least in part to communication failures within the department. But the hedge
and trees were gone, and the whole experience has been traumatic for my wife and me.
Since the Town of Dryden has no deeded right -of -way on Ellis Hollow Creek Road, it appears that the
department acted illegally as well as "mistakenly." We have not asked for compensation == the hedge is slowly
growing back, and the trees are irretrievably gone. But we ask earnestly that the Town Board w111 insure by
whatever
means necessary that
in the future the department will act neither
illegally nor with similar lack of
common
sense, forethought, or
consideration for property owmers' rights or
feelings.
Supv Schug - Thank you, Robin.
R Seeley - I'd also like to ask that Bambi's letter about the fact that Hurd Road, Hunt
Hill Road and Ellis Hollow Creek Road, that she couldn't find any deeds to them in the Town
records, or that she couldn't find any record of any SEQR proceeding, that that letter also be
incorporated into the record for tonight.
Supv Schug — Okay. (letter attached to minutes)
Erica Evans, 49 Turkey Hill Road - I agree with what both Tom and Robin have said
and in relation to that the Varna 11 project what Steve Lucente said was that he was going to
clear trees and change the mad, and this would be exactly the same sort of thing and I should
hope that the Board would consider that allowing that would go right along with what they
have said. The other thing I wonder is how many of you have ever flown over that area and
• looked down on it and realized what an unsuitable place that is for 140 homes.
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TB 10A2=99
?orika I•Ienderson - I wonder when the Board will be considering my request.
Supv Schug - It will be under the Highway Department because it affects the Highway •
Department. Hopefully not too long. Is there anyone who would like to make a statement?
(There was none)
COUNTY BRIEFING
Mike Lane - Reported on County budget progress. A lot of examination has been done,
and in the last: two weeks a budget forum was held and following that budget meetings have
been held. A tentative budget was established today. The tentative budget that was
recommended by the committee as a whole calls for a 2% tax rate increase for the 2000 budget.
That budget will go to public hearing (November 9) and we will eventually adopt that budget.
Once again this year there was a fund balance to be looked at. The tobacco settlement has
also come into play this year. We talked about using it or not using it. Each representative
seems to have an opinion on what to do with that money. An initial payment is expected by
the end of this year of $520,000. Another payment of $536,000 is scheduled for 2000, and a
second payment of $852,000. We will then receive payments according to the schedule that
has been furnished by the State forever. Some of us are a little cynical about the tobacco
money. We receive it because some of the counties, Tompkins was one of them, joined with
New York State in the suit against the tobacco companies. New York State's share is 51"Yo, 2?%
will go to New York City, and 23% will be divided among the Counties. There are concerns
about the future availability of this money. The federal government has commenced a suit for
nearly half a trillion dollars. The tobacco companies may not be able to financially withstand
that after the settlement with the States and we could possibly see the bankruptcy of these
companies, in which case these payments would be gone. Some Counties are actually trying to
sell their payments for some cash value now. The State Comptroller has suggested that maybe •
we should take some of that money and put it into a trust fund as sort of a general reserve for
the tobacco money and use it for some things like health care. After all, the purpose of the
settlement was to compensate the States for costs incurred caring for people made sick by the
use of tobacco. In the present budget the initial payment of $520,000 is used for tax relief, and
about the same amount of additional surplus was added to get us down to a 20/o increase. No
decision has been reached with respect to the use of future tobacco settlement payments.
The budget contains a commitment to library services downtown, additional staffing.
There is also a commitment to the rural libraries, $6,000 per library increase in funding for
each. There is additional money for roads. A number of bridges will be built because there is a
lot of Federal money coming in. Some bridges may be moved up sooner in the schedule. The
Sheriffs Department will have two new positions, a deputy and a Captain. After public hearing
some changes may be made, but this is what has been proposed.
Supv Schug - The Sheriff ran on a platform of reducing costs. Is his budget smaller
than it was a year and a half ago, or is it higher?
M Lane - It is higher. All the budgets are higher. As a cost control measure some
monies were placed in contingency last year. We haven't had to use all of that money because
of the situation with the jail. We have not boarded out a prisoner since January. We have two
waivers for additional bunking and one has now expired. We are pursuing a study of
expansion of the jail. Adding a deputy and a captain will increase that budget. There are also
some initiatives in that. Sheriff Meskill has worked very hard to try to open lines of
communications. Since I have been on the board I have never had to vote on a request from
that department for additional deputies. He actually asked for eight and was given one. He
asked for captain, too. Overall the Department is spending more money, but in the areas of •
overtime and jail boardouts, it has not increased.
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® Supv Schug - They
are doing a great job. I just
wondered how that
washed out.
J Gerbasi - The 2%
increase includes using the
entire $525,000 for
tax relief?
M Lane - The amount we receive in 1999 will be used for tax relief.
J Gerbasi - So if we don't get a payment beyond that and we want to keep the same
level of services, we will have to come up $525,000?
M Lane - There is another $500,000 in surplus and that was part of today's debate. My
personal preference was to use all the surplus and hold back on the tobacco money until we
had it in hand.
Cl T Hatfield - On August 26 we had a representative froze the Tompkins County
Department of Soil and Water Conservation here. We had a good discussion with that
individual on the issue of the matching one - third, one - third, one -third funds. It has since been
discussed at a TCMOA meeting. At the last board meeting Paul Long from the Tompkins
County Department of Soil and Water Conservation sat there for a lengthy debate. Margie
Malepe was very upset, didn't understand how the program worked. We have since
straightened that out. I think it's an excellent concept and this board is supportive, but we
continue to have this inability to communicate. Is someone at the County level going to try to
get together with the Towns and who ever else is involved and see if we can find a way to make
it work? And are there funds in the budget for continuation of that program?
M Lane - The answer to all your questions is yes. There is no question that the have
had problems in our Water Resources area and have had difficulties with the Water Resources
® Council. We have had issues with the Soil and Water Conservation Service, which you are well
aware of The Towns have had administrative problems. The Planning and Intergovernmental
Relations Committee, which I chair, will be appointing a subcommittee, whose task it is to
examine the problems that we have been having and make a recommendation on how these
can be operated better. In the current proposed budget there is a new position for a Water
Resources Planner in the Planning Department which we hope is going to be able to coordinate
some of these issues among the various grant programs. This person will be interfacing in a lot
of these different areas. There is a continuation of stream bank maintenance program at the
same level, $25,000 to be tripled through matching. This is the third year of a three year
program and in this proposed budget that is now made permanent funding and part of the
target budget each year. We are trying to get things worked out so that problems don't occur
again.
Cl T Hatfield
- One
of the
issues is the Towns working on private property and the
liability there. That
really
needs
to resolved.
M Lane - If that is an issue, then the whole concept of the program is at risk.
Cl T Hatfield - 1 hate to see that happen and that's why I really think we need to find an
answer.
Supv Schug - Will the local watershed committees review the applications? That is the
way it started out.
M Lane - It should be based on approval of the Town. The Town's dollars are going to
be involved. How else can it work? When I investigated the issue you raised it seemed like a
• classic miscommunication. I1: didn't sound like either side intended that and unfortunately,
the poor property owners got caught in the middle and they are the ones who got hurt.
Page 7 of 53
Supv Schug -
It is difficult for the Town to
budget money for that kind of a project not
knowing how much will be spent in
our Town. I think
that the Town should have some input
into who gets what monies and I think
that you ought to take a look at
the
we all agree
that money might be better put together
with the person who
has the proiect
and leverage
that money to fix a section of a stream bank
rather than try to fix
one individual
at a time.
M Lane - I know that the Town and Village of Dryden had a joint committee. I agree
one hundred percent, the Town must have input and agree.
COUNCIL PRIVILEGE OF THE FLOOR
Cl T Hatfield - At the last meeting I presented a memorandum with the action plan on it
for our efforts in bidding out attorney's services. I'm asking the Board, does this make sense
for the legal services request for qualifications approach, and if so, we need to reset some
targets for getting going.
Cl Grantham - I think it is a very thorough job and I referred to it when I worked on the
engineering one. I do still think that we should not only send it to those on a board generated
list, but that we should put it out as a public bid. I thought that under the list of information
requested there should be some request for declaring local, personal and business interests. I
also never saw the memo that outlines the scope of services and I remember asking for that.
Did you see it Tom in order to prepare this?
Cl T Hatfield - I don't recall, I may have, 1 don't remember and I didn't bring my papers
with me tonight. The scope of services I think are clearly set by us as every meeting. We
generally ask or direct the Town Attorney to look into matters as they come along. I think that
is typical of the situation for most towns. I suspect those that would be interested in providing
this type of service would be aware of that. I'm not sure how you'd put that into a scope of
services. I'd call that an engagement letter, but I don't know what you'd do other than set
parameters when you look at what a monthly fee would be for standard services. Anything
beyond is going to be billed anyway. It has to be. We don't want to overpay and the individual
providing service is not going to want to work on a pro bono basis for the amount of work
involved.
Cl
Grantham
- Before
you turn
this into an
actual
letter
that you ought to take a look at
the
scope
of services
that we
already
use and I still
would
like a
copy of it.
Cl T Hatfield - Okay. I guess if we can agree that this generally as an outline works,
we'll take a shot at crafting a letter instead of this in outline form. As this proposal states, I
think it is a job for the Board as a whole. That's why I set it up so everybody could provide a
name or firm that they think we should ask.
Supv Schug - Just so you all understand, the Town is not required to bid professional
services. We can do it, but we really don't have to.
Cl Grantham - I realize that.
Cl T Hatfield - They really don't lend themselves to bidding either.
Cl C Hatfield - In the bidding process, the cheapest price might get you an inferior job.
Cl Grantham - If you are sending letters to individual attorneys anyway you are getting
a bid, and you could have the same results. I don't understand what the objection is to putting
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out a public notice. I think it is always smart to request bids from people that we think would
• be good or that we have heard have a good reputation. I don't see why we can't open it up.
Cl T Hatfield - I don't think there's any objection. I'm thinking about how many
attorneys we have and doing a public notice. Are you prepared to read 70 or 80 applications?
Cl Grantham - If we have to.
Cl T Hatfield - We spend a lot of time looking at invoices every month here trying to
highlight ones where we might have a local provider. I know we've got three attorneys in this
Town that have practices here and we have a number of them in the surrounding communities.
We ought to try to target them and make it make sense. If five of us can't come up with 12 to
15 folks I don't have a problem opening this up. There is a practical side to it. The other side
of the coin is that it is going to take time to respond.
Cl Grantham - Well, sure.
Supv Schug - My comment, Deb, wasn't that I'm opposed to bidding it out or
advertising it in the paper or sending out letters. I just wanted you to know what the law says
so we don't get caught up in spending a lot of time.
Cl T Hatfield - I think its probably the same thing on the engineering side.
Supv Schug - Tom, did everybody send you a list of three attorneys?
Cl T Hatfield - Not yet.
• Cl Grantham - We said we could do it tonight.
Cl T Hatfield - I 've not yet heard from Deb or from Ron. I guess what I'm hearing is that
I should take this and move forward with a letter. If you want to advertise, the can. Which
vehicles do we use? Is there a legal publication that most of the attorneys in our community
subscribe to?
M Lane - There is a monthly newsletter for the local bar association.
Atty Perkins We don't have an integrated bar in New York. You'd reach those members
who belong to the local bar association.
Cl '1' Hatfield - I'm not opposed to it, but let's see what we get as far as names from
referrals.
Supv Schug - Charlie and Deb, the engineering contract?
Cl C Hatfield - I looked over the contract that Tom is talking about and read it through
a number of times and I couldn't see why it couldn't be used for an engineer as well. I have
copies (distributed). That way they'd both be under the same rules and regulations and
qualifications.
Cl Grantham - I looked at one of the engineering contracts with TG Miller's and I got a
request for qualifications from the County on some bridge work that they were bidding out a
few years ago and used that. I also talked to one engineer who works for Cornell and used to
work for a consulting company (distributed copies). I've put in some very specific qualifications
® for what we need based on projects that were had in the time that I've been on the board
which include the bridge and road engineering, traffic and transportation, water and sewer
Page 9 of 53
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distribution systems, drainage, storm water management and increasingly, the non -point
source pollution, watershed science, regulations, including environmental regulations, and a
list of documentation of qualifications. A lot of that follows with what the County asks for. I
have a list of some suggested engineering firms who do this kind of work, but I also think it
should go out as a regular bid.
Supv Schug - Do you want us to give you some recommendations as Charlie asked for?
Cl Grantham - Yes, these are just ones that I have.
Supv Schug - Have you 1:wo been talking to each other?
Cl Grantham - No, we haven't had a chance, so we need to talk about this. I put a
timeline on it. It looks like it is pretty similar to Charlie's.
Supv Schug - We'll get some names of engineering firms back to that committee.
Cl T Hatfield - You look like you are both pretty much on the same wavelength, so you
probably should do the same thing - together draft a letter.
Supv Schug - That's good. We'll follow up next month.
Cl Grantham - I was suggesting doing a review of the letter at the November 4 meeting
when we do the budget hearing.
Supv Schug
- Although it's
not an open session, we could do it when 1ve discuss the
budget on the 21rit.
We can read
it
over then.
Cl Grantham - But do we need a resolution from the Board to do the letter and send it
out?
Cl T Hatfield - If you need a resolution we can do it tonight for both committees after
sending drafts for input to move forward...
Supv Schug - Do you want to do a resolution that when the board is together and has
looked at it to let the committees go forward advertising and sending out letters.
Cl T Hatfield - I move that we take this approach and incorporate them both with the
caviat that we have had the opportunity to review by the 21 st.
Supv Schug - If you can do it.
Cl T Hatfield - Final approval by the 21 st on this specific issue and then move forward
with the bid process.
RESOLUTION 0 175 - AUTHORIZE LEGAL AND ENGINEERING COMMITTEES
TO MOVE FORWARD WITH BID PROCESS
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that provided the proposed letters for securing legal services and
engineering services have been reviewed by the board on October 21, 1999, the committees are
authorized to move forward in their searches by sending letters to prospective bidders and /or
advertising.
Rige 10 of 53
TB 10-12 99
2nd Cl T Hatfield
® Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Supv Schug - Cl Grantham wanted to speak regarding the Cayuga Lake Watershed
Intermunicipal Organization as far as the Fall Creek Watershed Project,
Cl Grantham - I think Marshall will talk about the Fall Creek Watershed, but I'll just
say quickly that the Intermunicipal Organization is hosting a bus tour of the watershed this
coming Saturday. It is leaving from Stewart Park at 9:00 a.m., and I think that it would be
great if someone from the Board in addition to me could go. It is scheduled to return at 4:45
p.m. Marshall will talk about the Fall Creek Watershed Committee.
Marshall Taylor - On the County's list of priority surface waters, Fall Creek is listed as
number 2 in terms of concerns and priority of being looked at. Six Mile Creek has a watershed
committee, it is now called the Caroline Watersheds Committee, formed by the Town of
Caroline and it looks at all their watershed issues although it was originally formed specifically
for Six Mile Creek. There has been a lot of discussion over the past six to nine months about
forming some type of committee for Fall Creek and we actually got the County Cuter Resources
Council to adopt formation of such a committee as part of its work plan. In other words, to get
the committee up to a point where it is functional, hopefully to the point where somebody from
that committee can indeed take a seat on the Water Resources Council in terms of its policy
making and so forth. There was a meeting held with the support of Sharon Anderson with
Cooperative Extension on October 40, where a watershed committee was discussed and models
of how you would form that committee were discussed. One model w*as the Town committee
• where the authority essentially comes from the Town, the other is just a citizens network,
perhaps another is to form an alliance of some type with the Cayuga Lake Watershed network.
We got a wide range of opinions of what should be and what the potential goals for such a
committee would be. One of those goals would be to either directly advise municipalities or to
at least educate and make citizens aware so that they can more appropriately have input to
municipalities and so forth. Among the potential goals were advising the municipalities in
terms of how their operations impact on watershed and water quality issues and flood
mitigation issues and so forth. One was just general education of stewardship of the land and
water. The other was to form for Fall Creek a citizens water quality monitoring network that
would look at water quality in Fall Creek over a sustained period of time, the different spatial
locations and so forth. Contacts were made with the Soil & Water Conservation services in
Tompkins, Cayuga, and Cortland Counties with their water quality coordinating committees
and so forth. We had a lot of interest but the date selected to meet was not convenient for all
interested to get together, if one looks at Fall Creek as an entity it is big and it is hard to build
a functioning citizens network where you meet throughout the watershed and you address
common issues and that type of thing, but that is the focus that this group has chosen to
proceed with right now.
One of the items that came up in discussion was that it doesn't make sense to declare
oneself a committee and go off, so we want to have a lot more discussion about how we do this
and what the goals will be and so forth. We wanted to take some concrete next steps and one
of those was proposed by one of the farmers who came to our meeting. That is to have a public
discussion and we think we will have it in McLean at the Fire Hall on November 1 at 7:30 p.m,
to look at issues of the Clean Water Act and what that means to us. Right now under the
auspices of the Water Resources Council there is a little bit of funding being proposed to the
Finger Lakes Lake Ontario Watershed Protection Alliance for this which would pay for getting
• out announcements and perhaps paying for some of the supplies for doing citizens based
monitoring and that type of things.
Page 11 of 53
TB 1042 -99
The bottom line is that we have found a broad base of interests in looking at Fall Creek
and looking at Fall Creek as an entity, as a watershed, as opposed to looking at it strictly
within the Town lines or something like that. It seems to make a lot of sense. We do have a
next step in the meeting at McLean. We would be particularly interested in hearing about
participation from the Town's Flood Mitigation Committee and so forth and what the citizens
based network could do to help or hinder such a committee.
Supv Schug - We should contact the farmers on each of the big feeder streams that go
into Fall Creek.
M Taylor - Those who attended the last meeting agreed to try and find someone who
they knew or felt had local interests and try to get them to the next meeting. We are looking to
have some of type of broader public discussions in January and February about animal
operations and the new regulations and the things that our agricultural community is facing.
And also things that Towns and municipalities are going to face in terms of new storm water
regulations and so forth. Now is the time to try and identify and get those interests involved. It
is my personal hope that we will form a citizens network and then we will come to the towns
and say these are the things we are doing, if you would like to accept our advice, fine,
otherwise we have our citizens who will come and speak to you.
Supv Schug - Suggested contacting Ron Space at the Cornell farms and a couple of the
professors in charge. They have done a lot of work with the animal waste control. They have
several test borings. Has spent time with them when Dryden Lake was discussed. They have a
good program and could probably help us. They'd be a good addition to determining what
comes down the stream.
M Taylor - I've spent time at a symposium that Cornell put together on Cayuga Lake •
environmental research interests. I've been going to these for three years now, and finally
today I'm hearing the various research interests at Cornell saying in one voice "Boy we have to
find a way to address our research to these issues that are coming up". There is a project
going on under the suggestion of the Water Resources Council to produce what is being called
a source book for water resources in Tompkins County. It is expected to be a compilation of
the research that is tied geographically and by subject area. The draft should come out about
the end of the year, which will coincide nicely with when this Cayuga Lake watershed plan
characterization study is going out for public comment. It should augment that quite a bit.
This will be the first effort. to really pull this stuff together and get it complied in a way that will
be meaningful.
Supv Schug - You know we are the head waters of the Owasco Lake water shed and the
town has agreed to be party to that.
Cl Grantham - I did put Mrs. Malepe on the list for the Fall Creek Watershed
committee.
M Taylor - She was
invited,
expressed an
interest, but was not able to make that
meeting, but hopefully will
be able
to participate
in the future.
PUBLIC HEARING
UNIVERSITY CYCLES
TRANSFER OF SPECIAL PERMIT
Supv Schug opened the
public hearing at 7:45p.m.
This is a transfer
of ownership •
application for the motor cycle
shop, University Cycles, at
802 Dryden Road,
presently owned
Rage 12 of 53
by Hamilton Allport and Sheen Moshaty.
Moshaty.
H Allport - Will continue to own tl
business to Sheen Moshaty.
Supv Schug - The neighbors have
who would like to speak? (None present).
T13 10 -12 -99
This was a special permit. The transfer is to Sheen
te property but wishes to transfer ownership of the
all been notified. Are there any neighbors present
You've done a fine job of keeping the noise down.
H
Allport -
Certainly we
can't control customers once
they leave the driveway, and
people do
go down
Game Farm,
but a lot of traffic goes down
Game Farm.
ZO Slater - We have never had a complaint to our office.
Supv Schug - We're glad
to see you
are fixing up the
houses through there and making
that property look better. Board
members,
do you have any
questions?
Cl Grantham - When we changed the special permit a couple of years ago it was to
allow meetings. Are those continuing?
H Allport - I don't think we ever had meetings after the special permit was amended,
but I wanted the ability to have meetings if necessary. We do have a club, but we don't meet at
the shop. Occasionally over the winter I envisioned it might be nice to host a meeting, but to
date there has not been a formal meeting at the shop.
Cl Grantham - One
of the
conditions in
the original special permit was that there
couldn't be any unlicensed
motor
cycles on the
premises.
• ZO Slater - I believe the term was unlicensed motor vehicles.
Supv Schug - I don't think that should change, Deb. Hamilton originally wanted to put
one or two bikes out for sale when the store was open and agreed to put them out but take
them back in the evening. When I go by at night they are gone, so they evidently are following
the rules and regulations that we have asked them to follow. I have not been back to check the
trash, have you Henry?
ZO Slater - When we've done our fire inspections everything has been in order. We
haven't noticed any accumulation, so I am assuming that he is taking care of it.
H Allport - When I originally applied for the special permit, I did have a few unregistered
cars. I believe that was the motivation for that condition and 1 got rid of the old cars before I
started the motorcycle shop.
Supv Schug - Sheen, do you understand all of the conditions we had prior and do you
agree to live with those?
S Moshaty - Yes.
Supv Schug - Does anyone have any other recommendations?
ZO Slater - I recommend that you substitute the current standard conditions of
approval for the ones that were previously attached.
Supv Schug - Hamilton still owns the property so that will be his responsibility. Does
anyone else have any questions? (None did) I'll entertain a resolution to approve the transfer.
Page 13 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
RESOLUTION # 176 - APPROVE TRANSFER OF SPECIAL PERMIT •
FOR UNIVERSITY CYCLES
Cl C Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby approves the transfer of the special permit for
University Cycles, 802 Dryden Road, to Sheen Moshaty, with the following transferring
conditions:
1)
No vehicles on frontage except during hours of operation;
2)
All outside storage of used /scrap parts in a locked container out of public view;
3)
No testing of vehicles on Game Farm Road;
4)
Hours of operation Monday through Saturday 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m.;
5)
Comply with sign ordinance;
6)
Unregistered vehicles currently on premises must be removed prior to issuance
of special permit;
7)
Applies to current operator only;
8)
Parking Lot plan with 17 spaces as submitted 2- 17 -94;
9)
Standard Conditions of Approval as amended 9 -8-98 shall apply;
10)
Approval contingent upon any comment from Tompkins County Planning or
Town of Ithaca;
11)
No inoperable or unlicenseable vehicles on premises; and
12)
At no time shall noise from the premises exceed the existing ambient noise level
as such existing noise level prior to the issuance of the permit. Such existing noise level to be
determined
by the code enforcement officer prior to the issuance of the permit.
2nd Cl Grantham
Roll
Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Supv Schug - Because it is a business transfer, we don't need a SEQR. Thank you
gentlemen and good luck.
PUBLIC HEARING
SITE PLAN REVIEW
L & A AUTO SALES
1495 DRYDEN ROAD
Supv Schug opened the public hearing at 7:45 p.m., explained that this was an
application of Andre and Lubov Vorobyov to establish an auto sales business at 1495 Dryden
Road, and asked Mr. Vorobyov to explain what it was he would like to do.
A Vorobyov - I would like to a put a parking lot there and sell cars there.
Supv Schug - You have two road cuts, did the State do those for you?
A Vorobyov - Yes.
Supv Schug - Are there any neighbors who would like to speak regarding the auto
sales? is
Page 14 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
M Taylor - Can we have him explain exactly where he is?
A Vorobyov - Next to the Leonardo farm house, on the right hand side. Same side of
the road as the Prudential building, in the 45 mph speed Zone.
ZO Slater - Roughly half uay between NYSEG and the road into Etna (366 & Main
Street) on the south side of the road.
Cl Grantham -
One thing that
wasn't
clear to
me was
that
you are proposing a modular
office. Does it have a
septic and well?
Will
you have
a septic
and
well?
A Vorobyov - No, not in this office. It is going to be temporary.
0
Cl Grantham - And so eventually you are going to build something.
A Vorobyov - Yes.
Cl T Hatfield - How long before you build a permanent structure?
A Vorobyov - Is unsure, needs to make some money first.
Purther discussion with Mr. Vorobyov indicated:
There will be no well, septic, or portable toilet facilities. With the intended use he does
not have to supply any restroom facilities since he doesn't serve anything. There are several
issues that need further attention. County Planning has not issued their report but indicate
the same concerns as ZO Slater:
* Containment of the increase in runoff (300+ gallons per minute increase over the
initial 300+ gallons per minute for retention)
* The concern of motor vehicles of a large quantity (50) which may be subject to
leakage of fluids. We need some assurance that that won't occur, especially considering they
will be parked on a gravel, permeable surface for display;
* The landscape areas were not detailed, only shown as green areas. What is it
comprised oP
Was there authorization for the road cuts? (A permit was included, but the
certificate of compliance has not yet been received.) Stinky installed them.
*
We
should have
plans for the sales office.
ZO Slater feels
it has
to be a certified
modular
structure
intended for
that particular use, not
like a converted
mobile
home.
Mr. Vorobyov has a current auto sales license, but it is not for that location. He needs
to supply a copy of that. There will be no service of vehicles on the premises.
ZO Slater indicates a reluctance to move forward until we have received a drainage
analysis and Mr. Vorobyov has retained an engineer that does supply those details.
Supv Schug - Understands that someone has bought the house next door and intends
to turn it into a bed and breakfast, and wonders about buffering and how a bed and breakfast
would fit into the MA Zone.
Page 15 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
ZO Slater - Buffering is specifically addressed where NIA uses border other districts. In
this case that is the not issue, but you can require some site buffering around the property.
The last known use of that house is residential. The requirement under nonconforming pre-
existing uses which would happen in an MA zone, says that once that use has been abandoned
for twelve months to be determined by the zoning officer, it is no longer permitted. Residential
uses are not permitted in that zone. If it were a hotel or motel it would not be a problem. It
could be subject to various regulations. You cannot put a bed and breakfast: in an MA zone
unless it has more that 8 lodging rooms. Eight or less rooms is still considered a single family
home.
A Vorobyov - Anticipates hours of operation to be 9 am to 7 or 8 pm, Monday through
Saturday.
The Board directed Mr. Vorobyov to return with:
1 - Drainage plan;
2- Facility lighting;
3- Landscape plan;
4- Other agency permits (DOT approval for road cuts & proper motor vehicles auto
sales licenses, and sign off by County Planning);
5- How vehicle fluids (potential loss of fluids) will be handled and assurance there
won't be any repair work on the site;
b - Plans and picture of proposed mobile office;
7- Power source;
8- Traffic control; (ZO Slater indicates we should get proof that DOT considered
that since they authorized the road cuts);
9- Buffering.
A Vorobyov - Intends to move some of the pines to the edge of the property for buffering.
The large birches at the back of the property will stay. He cannot change his operating address
to the Dryden Road address until he has approval. He needs to do business until he moves.
He can produce a current motor vehicle license (for the property where he resides).
ZO Slater
- The
proposed sign is appropriate, 32 square
feet. Suggested candidate use
the same lighting
as is
used by Mid Valley Oil, across the road,
or the equivalent.
Supv Schug - No SEQR is required at this point, we need additional information. This
does not require special permit. It is allowed in the MA Zone. There must be a site plan review
for each use in this zone, any change of use, or if a property is sold. We continually have on
the table the opportunity to review these businesses.
Applicant was advised of the items of additional information required by the Board,
instructed to gather that information and return to the Board at a future date. He will be
required to come back to the Board when he wants to put up a permanent structure.
M Taylor - Wouldn't it be in the Town's interest for the site plan to require essentially
the certification that water and sewer is something that he can obtain in a reasonable fashion
there for the permanent structure. If this is not done now, doesn't the Town find itself in the
position of having a car lot sales with a temporary structure, that potentially becomes
untenable, is it then in the Town's interest to have a permanent temporary structure? I'm just
assuming that at that location he can address those issues.
Page 16 of 53
TB in -UmW
C1 Grantham - I think Marshall has a good paint_ I don't think he needs to put in water
and sewer, but to ]now that he could get it approved would be import'gnt. He could get a perc
test.
Supv $chug - He's going to be working there all by himself_ He's not going to have a
toilet, and according to Henry under the law he isn't required to have one. The day he wants to
put. m a permanent structure then he would have to come back to the Board and it would have
to be approved, We'd like to we what the sales trailer is going to look like. Part of the
boilerplate is if water and sewer goes past his property that he will be hooked up.
Atty Perldns - I think it is a reasonable request that he demonstrate through some
analysis that he would be able to drill a well there, and probably an eng ' in eer could tell you
whether or not the sails on that property are suitable for an onsite septic system,_ I presume
that they are,
ZO
Slater
- The engineer 'be
has retained does sewer arid water analysis in Tinga
County, so
I think
he could provide
that.
Supv Schug � That item will be added to the list.
C1 Urantham - Should we put a time limit on this temporary structure?
Supv $chug - We can do that.
Cl Grantham - Asked applicant to give us an estimate of how long the temporary
structure will be required when he comes back.
0 The site plan review was adjourned at 8;15 p.m_
OUNCIL PRI'ViL> GE OF THE FLOOR (oont'd)
Cl
Grantham
- Asked for update on
the plants for the
work that is being done on the
land here
where part
has been turned into
parking. What is
goilag to happen with the rest?
Supv Schug - It was basically set up to do just parking so that if the time came to
extend this building there would be sufficient parking. The question has come up whether or
not we should not use this for business for Town Hall, but maybe just for the Court. There are
other suggestions we need to lick around, and maybe we'll move the 'Town Hall next door.
That is something we -need to take a look out. Why do you ssk?
Cl Grantham - The neighbors right next door talked to me about the possibility of
getting some buffering since the berm that was put nit didn't work, caused problems and was
removed. Perhaps a combination of landscape fence and trees to cut down on noise from the
Highway Department activities and so on.
Supv Schug - I suppose we co -old, We planned to buffer that lot anyway, at least on the
neighbor's side. AFC could if the berm Us alright to use the way it sets. There is still a berm
there we plant trees either this Fall or in the Spring.
C1 Grantham � I don't think you want aoyruore of a berm there because you don't want
to divert runoff onto to their properties. but the trees would be good. They are hoping for some
noise buffer. The previous berm had caused some runoff and optic problems.
Page 17 of 53
TB 10.12 -99
Supv Schug � Did you just hear about this Deb?
Cl Grantham - Yes, they just talked to we about it in the last couple of Mays, Campbe11 40
and Wagner_ Wagner's septic was damaged by the berm wbLich is why we should put trees
there instead of a higher berm,
Atty
Perkins -
Suggested we
get a landscape
architect to advise
us. about why
the
berm
didn't work
and what
kind of trees or what ]dnd of a
plan is necessary
to accomplish
the
gaa1.
D Putnam - Designed the berm, but can't recall any plantings an it other than grass, it
was along time ago_
Cl Grantham -- When Vicky Wagner had problems with the septic system she got are
engineer to figure out what the problem was, so there must be some documenting why the
berm caused problems for her septic before it was leveled off again. I think we could get that
inforna,ation and then just a landscape plan would do the Job. Since it is a combination of
noise and site I think it needs to be evergreens.
Cl Grantham - Marshall could you report on the Community Centers?
Taylor - The Varna Commujaity Center has invited the surrounding community
associations that they have contacts with, Etna, Ellis Hollow, Forest Home, some not being iu
the Town, to get together on October 22 at the VCA at 7;30 and dismi s how community
astiaociahons in our area may be able to help one another where there are common interests
axed problems,
C1 Grantham - As needs are ideut died in the Master Plan hearings and from citizens
sorne of those needs may be rust by community centers, and we could possibly support them in
doing that. Part of may concern was prompted by the parking lot and access at Bethel Grave.
Supv $chug - Has Bethel Grove been contacted?
M Taylor - Will contact them.
VM t .�0 *4
Atty Perkins - I have sent an opinion to the Supen isnr regarding the tour of i1he Varna.
II project. It reads as follows, At the September 1999 Town Board meetiXig the gcie tioii arcs&
whether a tour of the proposed Varna II site by the Town Board would constitute a meeting of
the Board and therefore be subject to the mee6bgs law- I told you that I did not d i„k sucli a.
tour would constitute a meeting, but that I would check on it to be sure, As I understand it the
Board would visit the site of the proposed project, which site is privately owned, to gain a
greater understanding of the site and to observe conditions such as the pond, slope, dram,
site distances along Route 366 and Mt Pleasant Road, existing vegetation au id the proximity of
the site toe S6J1g x�ses. The term °`meeting" (Opera Meetings Law §102, sub 1) has been
construed expansively by the Courts to include a gathering of a majority of a Tawas Board for
the purpose of conducting public business. In reviewing this issue I came across an opinion
from the Committee on Open Government and a Supreme Court Appellate Divmozi' case. It
appears from the Opinion and from the Appellate Division case that a tour of a potential site to
acquire a greater understanding and information would not be a meeting subject to the Open
Meetings Law as long as any discussions or deliberations regarding such observations did not
occur at the time of the tour but were reserved for a later public meeting conducted in
accordance with the Open Meetings Law. The Appellate Division case addressed a tour of a
potential route of a proposed power line by the Public Service GommistRion- The Appellate
Page 18 of 33
TS 10-12-99
Division determined that the Open Meetings Law was not violated when the commissioners
toured the proposed route since the tour was intended to provide the commissioners with a
greater understanding of the evidence presented and since a summary report of the tour was
provided to the parties. The Opinion of the Committee on Open Government cites the Appellate
Division case, but cautions that site visits or tours by public bodies should be conducted solely
for the purpose of observation and acquiring information, and any discussions or deliberations
regarding such observations should occur at later public meetings. Since the site is under
private control and posted with no trespassing signs, permission needs to be obtained from the
project sponsor or owner. As I understand it the project sponsor has indicated a willingness to
provide such a site visit, but there is some question about the consent of the private owner. It
is possible to allow the tour to be open to the public if that is acceptable to the sponsor and
owner. There are of course liability issues which arise when the general public is allowed on
private property, and the general public would need to be cautioned that discussions or
deliberations are not to occur during the tour, but should be reserved for an open meeting at
which appropriate minutes can be taken. I know of no authority for the Town to refuse to
complete an environmental review or to act on a special permit request on the grounds that a
site visit was not allowed. Such a position is of questionable legality and could likely result in
an adverse legal ruling against the Town. If you have any questions about this, please feel free
to contact me.
Supv Schug -
We can
go
as a Town Board and view the site. We would have to do a
SEQR determination
whether
or
not we go.
Cl
Grantham -
We haven't accepted a scoping
and there is not an environmental impact
statement
yet, but we
made a SEQR declaration. We
made a positive declaration.
Supv Schug - We can do the rest without a site tour. I think that was a good
suggestion by Ron, and you felt it was a good suggestion.
Cl Grantham - I do. I think we have to. Maybe he'll agree to it and this isn't an issue,
but I don't see how we can make any decisions if we don't have an the information and if we've
never seen it then how do we know if we have all the information or not. If he doesn't let us see
it then we need to think seriously about what we decide.
Supv Schug - I think he agreed to take any member of the Board or the entire Board to
see the site. I think the question needs to be answered whether the public can attend. If he
says no, he doesn't want the public to attend, then we will go just as a board and do it.
Cl Grantham - Has he said anything about whether he will allow the public to attend?
Or has he not been asked?
Supv Schug - He hasn't been asked yet. At our last meeting we asked Mahlon to
address concerns that came up about the Open Meetings Lave. We now have an answer to that
and we can now move forward. If he says the public can't go on the lot, then they can't. It's
his problem.
Atty Perkins - The first thing you need to do is ask the questions. If the public will not
be allowed there, there is certainly value to the Town Board having a tour because it will aid
them to have a better understanding of what is being talked about. The only caution is of
course that you must reserve your deliberations and comments and questions for a subsequent
public meeting.
Cl Grantham
- We can't
ask
questions?
Atty Perkins -
Sure, you
can
ask questions.
Page 19 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
Cl T Hatfield - We just can't have a discussion between ourselves. 0
Supv
Schug - We also
did request that
our engineer have the chance to go, along with
the Highway
Superintendent
so
he can take a.
look
at
the
road
cuts.
Cl Grantham - I think the Planning Board or some representative of the Planning Board
should be along since they have done some advising with us. I would hope that Bambi would
come and take notes.
Supv Schug - We're supposed to
look at
it, ask our questions and then come back and
have a meeting where Bambi then takes
notes.
Bambi's
welcome to go.
Cl Grantham - We are gathering information.
Atty Perkins - She certainly could prepare a report of the tour and provide that as part
of the information made part of the record at the time you actually have your discussion. It is
permissible for someone to prepare a report, whether it is the Town Clerk or whatever. It will
not be in the form of minutes necessarily, but a narrative of who was there and what was
observed or pointed out. You won't be doing any deliberations.
Supv Schug - I would suggest that if we have someone from the Planning Board, I think
Joe Lalley might be a good representative because of the long range plan. Well see what we
can work out.
Atty Perkins - Hurd Road I will speak to you in Executive Session about this and you
can decide what action, if any you want to take on that.
Atty Perkins - Observatory Circle - You have written reports from Dave Putnam and
Jack Bush that the work has been completed, the as built maps have been furnished, the title
has been examined, and we got ready to close and it turned out that one of the subcontractors
had filed a mechanic's lien against the developer and they are in the process of bonding that
away. Until that is taken care of, we don't yet have title to that road. But everything seems to
be moving forward and I expect that when I report in November it will finally have closed.
It is not on the agenda, but there is an amendment number two to an agreement
between the owners of the Ithaca Area Wastewater Treatment. Plant and Stearns & Wheler who
are the engineers for the project. This resolution basically recites where we are at the present
time. Briefly, as you know the owners of the wastewater treatment plant hired Stearns &
Wheler pursuant to an agreement of January 6, 1999 to assist them with applications under
the Clean Water /Clean Air Bond Act. The next step is to prepare a long environmental form, or
probably in this case an Environmental Impact Statement, associated with the proposed waste-
water treatments which are proposed. You may recall that this is tertiary treatment which will
increase the phosphorous removal from the effluent. There are other funds and other projects
for which more applications are required. This is a second amendment to the professional
services and retains Stearns & Wheler to assist the owners with the environmental quality
review requirements and in reapplying for grant funding that was not awarded in the first
round of funding and assist the owners in applying for financing of a local share of the
proposed improvements using low interest loans available through the State Revolving Fund.
So this basically is the same type of resolution which is being acted on by the City of Ithaca
and the Town of Ithaca to keep the process moving forward.
Cl Grantham - An application in this summer to apply for additional Bond Act money. 0
Page 20 of 53
TB 10- 12 -91)
Atty Perkins - As I understand there has been one award made for a portion of the
® wastewater improvement projects. Not all of the projects that were on the original joint
application were funded. There is another opportunity to apply for those projects which
weren't funded and for additional projects which have since been identified in the original
engineering report.
Cl Grantham - What are the projects that got funded and what are the ones that we
would be applying for.
Supv Schug - The biggest. portion of the funding that came through was for City of
Ithaca sewerage. They are digging up East Hill and they put up the new bridges and whatever.
Funding for sewer lines in Lansing, some work at the Cayuga Heights plant and some work at
the Ithaca Area Wastewater Treatment Plant. There is a possibility of getting another roughly
ten million dollars to do the phophorous and the clean up of the lake. Those are things that
were approved before. The real cleanup comes at Cayuga Heights and the Ithaca Area
Wastewater Treatment Plant.
Cl Grantham - So the tertiary treatment didn't get funded in this first application, but
we asked for it right?
Supv Schug - Yes. In the first round we ended up with seven million bucks. The
reason they put it all together is because the Health Department and DEC didn't want to build
another sewer plant on the lake. Lansing started out doing things by themselves, planning a
sewer plant at Myers Point. Nobody wanted that and by everyone working together they did
allow some of the money to be spent in Lansing on sewer mains to get the stuff down to Cayuga
Heights and to Ithaca Area Wastewater Treatment Plant.
Atty Perkins - I can summarize the contract and the amendment. The original contract
was for an engineering study to determine the costs of various improvements. Amendment No.
1 was the preliminary design phase. This second amendment is to provide a unified
engineering report, taking all of the studies that have been done by the separate entities,
combining them, doing the environmental review, and making the next round of funding
applications.
Cl Grantham - And how much will that cost.?
Atty Perkins - Amendment No. 2 is for $120,0000. The basic services is $53,800,
Amendment No. 1 was $160,000.
Cl Grantham - Good thing we're getting $7,000,000. 1 guess we need to do it because
we've come this far and without the tertiary treatment....
Atty Perkins - I put in that this is to be paid from the joint activity fund, is that correct?
Supv Schug - Yes.
C1 Grantham - So the $160,000 is shared, or is that our share?
Atty Perkins - That is the total of the amendment..
CI Grantham - What is the formula again, is it based on the percent that we own?
Supv Schug -
This is
equal
shares for
this portion.
Cl Grantham
- Okay,
so it's
a six -way
division. I'll move it.
Page 21 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
RESOLUTION NO. 177 (1999)
RESOLUTION APPROVING AMENDMENT NO. 2
TO AGREEMENT BETWEEN ITHACA AREA WWI P -SJS OWNERS
AND STEARNS & WHELER, LLC
Cl Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
WHEREAS, the Ithaca Area Wastewater Treatment Plant OWNERS (City of Ithaca, Town
of Ithaca, and Town of Dryden) hereinafter referred to as OWNERS and Stearns & Wheler, LLC
(ENGINEER) entered into an Agreement for professional engineering services dated January 6,
1999; and
WHEREAS, said Agreement required ENGINEER to prepare an engineering report
summarizing recommendations and budgetary cost estimates for various improvements to the
Ithaca Area Wastewater Treatment Plan; and
WHEREAS, said engineering report was identified as a regulatory requirement
associated with acceptance of New York State grant funding for wastewater improvements
available under the 1996 Clean Water/ Clean Air Bond Act; and
WHEREAS, OWNERS submitted a joint application dated June 3, 1998 along with the
Village of Cayuga Heights and the Town of Lansing, for State grant funding available for
wastewater improvements under the 1996 Clean Water /Clean Air Bond Act; and
WHEREAS, OWNERS were successful in receiving a grant award for a portion of the
wastewater improvement projects that ere included in the June 3, 1998 grant application; and
WI•IEREAS, OWNERS have identified the need for assistance by ENGINEER in preparing
a unified engineering report evaluating wastewater treatment alternatives and describing
wastewater improvements to be proposed by the joint applications as a condition for
acceptance of the grant funding awarded; and
WHEREAS, OWNERS have identified the need for assistance by ENGINEER in satisfying
State Environmental Quality Review (SEQR) requirements associated with proposed wastewater
improvements as a condition for acceptance of the grant funding awarded; and
WHEREAS, OWNERS have identified the need for assistance by ENGINEER in
reapplying for grant funding for those projects that were not awarded funding as a result of the
June 3, 1998 grant application; and
WHEREAS, OWNERS have identified the need for assistance by ENGINEER in applying
for grant funding for additional wastewater improvement projects identified since submission of
the June 3, 1998 grant application; and
WHEREAS, OWNERS have identified the need for assistance by ENGINEER in applying
for financing of the local share of proposed improvements to the Ithaca Area Wastewater
Treatment Plant and interceptor and collector sewers using low interest loans available from
the Clean Water State Revolving Fund for Water Pollution Control,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the Town Board of the Town of Dryden as
follows: 0
Page 22 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
1.
Amendment No. 2
to the Professional Services Agreement
with ENGINEER dated
January
6, 1999, revised July 21,
1999, providing for additional services generally described
for in the
preambles hereto and in more detail in said Amendment No. 2
is hereby approved.
2.
The
Town
Supervisor
is
authorized to execute the said Amendment No. 2 on
behalf of the
Town
Board
of the Town
of
Dryden.
3. The costs of said additional services shall be paid out of the existing reserve
funds of the Joint Activity Fund,
2114 Cl C Hatfield
Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Atty Perkins - On the Zoning Ordinance we need Kevin to get proficient with the
mapping.
Peregrine Partners motion update - no action needs to be taken by the Town.
Youth Recreation Commission - I sent a draft. of a proposed local law to Tom Hatfield in
the middle of September. He has talked to me briefly about it and I think he wants to do some
more work on it. I've gone as far as I can for now.
Cl T Hatfield - I expect to get back to you on it soon.
TOWN CLERK
® Supv Schug - Approval of minutes from 7/26, 8/10, 8/26 and 9/7.
Cl Grantham - I went through them. I had a few changes.
B Hollenbeck - You had asked me about July 26 where Dave Weinstein was talking and
it seemed to change abruptly. What happened was that was when he set up his visual display.
I think we just need to put in here that it was displayed.
Cl Grantham - Okay. There was a typo on page 14 - it should be exits and instead of
exist. On August 10, I think Mahlon needs to help with this. I am not sure that all changes
were made (showed minutes to Atty Perkins). Some of these changes didn't make it to back
here.
Supv Schug - If you have that extensive a change maybe you can call and straighten it
out. At this point, can we approve the July 26 with adjustments?
Cl Grantham - Yes.
On motion of Cl C Hatfield, seconded by Cl Grantham, and unanimously carried, the
minutes of the July 26, 1999 meeting were approved.
Supv Schug - If you can in the future, call in your changes if you have any, don't wait
until the Board meeting. She has questions on August 10,
Cl Grantham - I don't have any changes on August 26.
® Supv Schug - What about September 7?
Page 23 of 53
TB 10-12 -99
Cl Grantham - Yes, I had some changes in that. Page 3 of 26, number 4, we talked
about doing some erosion control and repair of the shoulder and I thought that ought to be in
number 4. I didn't. see it clearly in these conditions. They were going to seed the ditches and
repair the shoulder.
J Bush -That was my suggestion.
Cl Grantham - But they said they would. On page 2 he says we can smooth that out.
J Bush - That's the shoulder on Mt. Pleasant and they did do that. Since then it has
rained and it just keeps doing the same thing. It's road surface water. It has nothing to do
with the new road.
Cl Grantham - It's not coming off of their property?
J Bush - There is water coming off from the property going down the ditch, into the
stone and into the catch basin, but as far as what is eroding that steep section of Mt Pleasant,
it is road surface water.
Cl Grantham - Did they seed?
J Bush - No seeding has been done.
Cl Grantham - But that was one of the conditions and I don't think that condition is
stated clearly.
J Bush - I talked about seeding the ditches on the new road, but I don't believe they are
obligated to do that.
Cl Grantham - But we talked about that as a condition for accepting their road and the
condition is not stated clearly in here. The discussion is in the minutes and the condition is
not stated clearly in the resolution. I think it belongs under either #3 or #4, or maybe #5, one
of these, or maybe it is its own condition.
Atty Perkins - I sent them a copy of the conditions. I'll have to go back and listen to the
tape, I don't have my notes with me.
Cl Grantham - It's in the minutes and I remember it that way.
Supv Schug -
Why
don't
you review
that
before we approve the minutes and make sure
we'Ve got it right. So
we'll
leave
the 9 -7 out
and
well approve 8 -26.
On motion of Cl Grantham, seconded by Cl T Hatfield and unanimously carried, the
minutes of August 26, 1999 were unanimously approved.
B Hollenbeck - After Mrs. Malepe was here I gave some thought to what she said about
minutes. We don't have a formal policy regarding minutes and would like the board to
formulate one. I would prefer that the actual minutes themselves not be on the web because of
possible manipulation. Suggested a summary be put on the web. We might also want to
consider publishing a summary as the school does of their board meeting.
C1 Grantham -
I agree we need a policy.
I don't
think
that we would designate the
minutes on the web as
the official minutes, the
hard copy
would be the official minutes, so that
Page 24 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
if they did get manipulated that disclaimer can be there. I think you can make it so they
couldn't change it.
Supv Schug -
What she is suggesting is that we do
a supervisor's
summary of what
happened, what was
passed, what was turned down and so forth. If that
was posted and
someone was interested there is no reason they can't come
in and get the
exact minutes.
Discussion followed about releasing draft copies, developing policy, putting the minutes
or a summary of the minutes on the web. Under Freedom of Information Law draft copies
must be available within two weeks of the meeting. Not everyone has access to the web.
Perhaps publishing would help keep the public informed. Maybe a. summary would increase
the work load, or might cause to people to believe that some of the information was being
filtered. Cl T Hatfield suggested that the Clerk and Attorney should get together and devise a
policy. Cl Grantham suggested the Record Management Committee should work on it. Joyce
Gerbasi suggested that any policy include the cost of minutes.
Cl Grantham - The proposed location for the personal safety program is the NYS
Armory and there is a target date of November 13. Jennifer Rosenthal hopes to let us know by
the end of week. 'the time will be 2 to 7 pm.
ENGINEERING
0 Putnam - I have two change orders for the NYSEG tank. The first is to correct the
contract amount for the actual quantities of welding that they had to do and for which we had
unit quantities, pit welding and hole repairs. The inside of the tank was in worse shape than
we expected, but it has all been fixed and painted and I have pictures of what the tank looked
like after it was drained. (shown to board) I negotiated a price with them to weld the seams,
the majority of the worst work. There are over 40 ft of seam welds that needed rewelding
because you could seen an exposed edge of the metal plate. I negotiated that down to $6 a
foot. Also in the second change order there is a decrease. We eliminated a roof hatch. We
were able to modify the vent to qualify as a second roof hatch. That was a $400 decrease. At
Larry's suggestion, since he has to do some work up there and has already disturbed some of
the site, we got a $500 credit from them for essentially reseeding the site, which I thought was
more than fair. The total increase to the contract is 9 `/a %. The final amount is $105,287 with
these to change orders plus the credit of our original change order. The original contract price
as $97,132.00. The did finish painting the tank. They have a little bit of clean up to do. We
have two leaky water valves up there that we suspected but weren't sure of until we got the
tank empty. Larry will dig those up and replace them before we put water back in the tank.
The tank can be filled Friday at the earliest, and the longer we wait the better. You fill the tank
and test the water in the tank before you put it back in service. NYSEG will be the only
customer affected, and well probably arrange to do it on a Saturday.
RESOLUTION fi 178 - APPROVE CHANGE
FOR NYSEG TANK PAINTING
Cl C Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby approves change orders for painting of the
NYSEG tank, bringing the contract total to $105,287.00, and the Supervisor is hereby
authorized to sign those change orders.
2nli Cl Grantham
Roll Call Vote
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Page 25 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
D Putnam - I will also work up a 4Lh change order just to extend the time so the •
contractor is still on the hook to button up the tank and fill it with water in case we don't get
this done before his contract date is up.
The second item on this list is the dry hydrant. I have nothing further on that tonight.
The third thing is the Town Hall air conditioning. I was out here with Charles Wilson
who is a heating and ventilation mechanical system engineer. He gave us a scope of service
and a proposal to design an air handling system here that would meet current codes for
ventilation and other issues. We also reviewed the two proposals you had, and he was in
agreement that there were a couple of things lard in those. Essentially he proposes 2 direct
expanding air conditioners, one to service the meeting room and one for the rest of the
building, with condensing units outside the west wall, evaporator units in the attic and duct
work. Each system will introduce outside air to meet current ventilation codes and exhaust
fans to balance the system out. An automatic shut off damper when it is not running. He
looked at the electric service. It is not big enough to handle an additional electric load for the
air conditioning so he is proposing that we put a contactor in so that either have electric heat
in this part of the building or air conditioning for the total building, but not both at the same
time. It would be a manual switch rather than run new electric in from the street. It would be
tied in to the fire alarm system. Details of the proposal are contained on the quote provided to
the Supervisor. Present structure of building complicates the design. Estimated cost is
$50,000. Mr. Wilson suggested that if there is no firm plan for this building, you might want to
spend money on window units and whatever wiring you have to do to get them to run. The fee
to put it together and bid it is $7,500.
Cl Grantham - When I brought all this up last winter I never thought:
$50,000 to air condition the town hall.
Supv Schug - Maybe what we need to think about doing is make this
build a new Town Hall and that would be the place to put a system. And the
units over here for the court operations. That would be acceptable I would t]
Cl C Hatfield - I think we need to look at other alternatives before we
Supv Schug - So should we put the air conditioning on hold?
Cl Grantham & Cl C Hatfield - Yes
that it would cost
the Court and
n put a couple
zink.
spend $50,000.
D Putnam - Mr. Burda's (Dryden Road) driveway culvert failed on him and he called me
up because of the Turkey Hill Sewer District and thought that might have some impact on it,
but unfortunately for him, when they were working he took some nice pictures and his culvert
never showed up in the trench, so I don't think the sewer district really had any impact on him.
At some point in time, something happened inside and it stopped passing water. Water
overtopped his driveway. He complained to us and the DOT. The DOT put a smaller pipe in up
close to the surface which kept him being able to drive in and out his driveway, but started to
erode. He was worried about the ponding behind it and wanted to get rid of it. He got a
contractor in to replace that culvert, but deeper, down at the actual bottom of the ditch so that
it didn't pond on one side of the driveway. He called the Town and wondered if the Town could
help because of the sewer district. Jim and I thought originally we couldn't do anything for
him but as we looked, a little to the east of his driveway there is a whole section of Route 366
embankment that has failed and the Turkey Hill sewer trench was exposed. We told Mr. Burda
that we could help with his project if we could fix that erosion with the left over dirt from his
driveway problem. Jim asked me to do an estimate of what I thought it would cost the Town to
do that.
Page 26 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
upv Schug - He'll be happy with the $582,00 Fin sure, and that will come out of the
sewer district funds. Have you approved the voucher?
Cl C Hatfield and Cl Grantham - Yes.
D Putnam - With respect to RM , the culvert is in across Mott road. The road has been
repaved- 'the times that I stopped they were doing a good job of compacting the soil. The road
is open. He has more work to do, but is out of the road right of way-
upv Schug � I did find our sign was completely tuned around when I drove out' there.
I turned it back.
J Bush - Out of six brand new flashers that I bought for that, 2 of them came back- It's
a constant sttuWje to keep that safety stuff
Supv Schug - I see you changed the cross over pipe further down-
J
Bush
- IM be shimmir
that
so that
it is
a lot smoother than it i-s now. We left it as a
bump to
try to
get traffic to slaw
down
before
they
got to the work area.
D Putnam - I have a draft of the Hanshow Road Water District cost estimate, service
area data, debt retirement with three different retirement methods, total service area charges
as they apply to typical property, and a brealydown spreadsheet of ail the properdes in the
district l`here is alternative one and alternative two. AltrL=tive tvm excludew the property
north of Neimi Road, alternative one includes it, There is a map of district. I will get Ran his
copy and as soon as I have the construction estimate done for the sewer district I will mail it to
each of you individually. I would suggest that you read these and schedule EL work session :zo
that we can sit down and talk about it. Once we resolve some of the open issues of which
benefit formula to use, whether north of Neimi is in of out, we'll finalize the repork, Orie Ui
that you will notice is a proposed 200 gallon pump station is not in the consftuction cost
estimate because it benefts more than this district and were got to discuss that- The rea,%On it
is in there is we are starting to rely expand the NY FC tank service area on the west side of
Fall Creels and if the water main under Fall Creek ever explodes, those people are out of water
until we can get back into Fall Creek and 5x it. The pump station there would give us a way to
pressurize that side of the system, We are undecided whether this district should pay it all or
if there an alternate way to pay for it-
D Ntnam - With respect to the change order on the NY EG tank, what he has left to do
is whie the Town repairs the valves he has to physically disinfect the tame and bolt the hatch
covers back on. That is the work he has remaining. FE write up a change order and if you pass
a resolution you'll just have to sign it.
RESOLUTION # 179 - EXTEND CONTRACT FOR N'Y i'. TASK PAINTINGr
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption_
RESOLVED. that this Town ,Board hereby authorises the extension of time for
completion of the contract for painting the NYSEG tank for a pQriod of three weeks, and the
supervisor is authorized to execute such change order.
21,;1 Cl C Hatfield
Roll Call Vote
Cl T Hatfield Yeti
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Crrantham Yes
Page 27 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
ZONING OFFICER 0
O $later - You have the monthly report. It was an average month with 13 building
peumits, most of which were substantial_ We completed a project at George Junior Republic
which was I believe their fourth intermediate care facility, a fourteen bedroom facraity for
students that need some supervision all the tile. That bridge their total to around 140
students. They have a goal of reaching 210 students, Considering they were almost out of
business five years ago, that is quite an improvement, They continue to grow and be a good
neighbor. Their people are not in the Courts like they used to be. I think it is worth noting
that we have a little community over here that is grov ng and sh ag significant
improvements, They were at a SEMO Conference a week ago and were told to contact the Town
of Dryden about Project impact. We are being approachcd by people around the carnmu iLity
who have been advised to Mme to us with their hands out for projects to help them mitigate
their future against disasters. I 've had to explain that this isn't quite true. We are still in the
midst of writing the program, We have a draft copy, presently being revised. We don't have a
final program for project impact, but if they'd like to jozn us and help to get to that stage, they
are welcome_ urge Junior is taking us up on than and will be jou g the Project Impact
team, They are preparing what they can do to help us, rather than what we can do for them,
We had Hazard Awareness Day on eptetnber 5, 1999 at the Flood Control Project
Site, It was a long day and we had 75 to 100 people visit the project that day. It was attended
by a good cross section of the population of the Town. Marshall Taylor will be an active part of
Project Impact and helping us with identifying projects and looking for Auading and engineering
them. I was happy to have him join us. After the revised draft is complete it will be taken to
the genez� public, similar to the way the master pl ux workshops have proceeded. There are
many agencies at the Federal and State level that are willing to help us. The ,may Corps of
EngitCers contacted us and said they have some equipment € nd ten days, but we didn't have
any projects lined up for them. So when we do, they can possibly help. We've gotten verbal
support from e:tator Schumer's office and from Congressman Hinchey's Offte,
Cortland Paving Compliance - You have a copy of the agreement with Mr. Ottenschott
in July. Items 1 and 2 have been completed. With respect to item b, that loos not been done, I
rewminend that since they went so far on the critical stuff that we try to work out getting that
done before the project plans out, because they did take the fencing and put the screening in
the lower side. I would like you to consider letting them get that completed before we sign off
on the project. I don't think that's unreasonable and Dave and Mahlon seem to agree.
Cl Grantham � What about the trees?
O Slater - You can't replant the trees until you relocate the fence next spring. They
have gone farther than I ever dreamed they would go to this point_ The only ding they haven't
done is relocate the fence, do the additional trees, and put the viburnam and forsythia in.
They have to relocate the fence by next Spring and plant the additional trees,
Supv Schug - O, good.
Gl Grantham - Do we need to do a resolution on that's
Atty Nrldrxs - I think what you are doing is reporting on the status of his compliance
efforts, and if you are making an administrative determination that that's a critical thing at this
point and reported it to the Board, if the Board wants to take action on it then they car)_
upv Schug y I think if Henry notifies them that it still hasn't been done, them. okay. 0
Page 28 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
O Slater - With respect to the Advanced Moving & Storage project on Lower Creek and
Route 13. When they built the mini - storage buildirxgs you required them to build an access to
Abbott Road. I reported to you that project was complete other than the placing of the sign
down by the Lower Creek Road driveway entrance to the facility, I had volunteered to review
the sign before it was built and installed. I did and noticed that the wording did not agree with
what the August 1997 resolution said. The resolution said specifically where Abbott Road
access is built sign shall be removed which directs traffic to Route 13 and a no exit placed on
Looser Creek Road except for local delivery. When I looked at the plan it said no right hand
exit: vn Lower Creek Road except for local delivery and I said to .John, that doesn't confom to
the requirement of the mite plan review approval, l€a said that he had asked for a sign that was
the same as the old one. I told him T would look at the minutes relative to the hearing and
advise him_ There is nothing in there other than that we keep tallring about no right hand turn
except for local delivery_ His thought was that if a truck was going to go south on u%ute 13 it
makes no sense to send him up to Abbott Rorie out to the Route 1 f Hanshaw Road light just
to get on Route 13. I agree with that and think that makes good sense, but told him I had no
authority to allover the sign until I brought it before this board_ I think from looking at the
minutes that the intent probably was to have something in here that said no right hand turn
except for local delivery and it was probably not the intent to have no exit onto Lower Creek
Road except for local delivery.
Supv Schug - I think you are right Henry because there is nobody affected between
their driveway and Route 13. It was all the homes up Lower Creek Road with the big trucks
god by,
RESOLU'T`ION # 180 - AMEND ADVANCE MOVING CONDITIONS
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Tolam Board hereby amends its resolution of August 1997 with
respect to Advance Moving and Storage as follows: Conditions 2 shall read When Abbott Road
access is built sign shall be removed which directs traffic to Route 13 and a sign will be
installed which reads 'No right hand exit on Lower Creek Road except for local delivery'.
2„11 C1 C Hatfield
Roll Call Fate Cl 'T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
O Slater - Will you report on Onipoint r_ Pe si
rkins, nce you're done more work on
i m
t than I have _
Atty Perl€ins - I will report what I knout and I want to discuss with the Town Board a
matter involving lit gation in executive session which involves ChxLrdpoint_ Our consultant had
narrowed down the issues in his letter of September 17 to the consent of the owner (if the
lease, a structural certificate, a non - interference certificate, a, certificate of emissions,
insurance required by the Local law. Henry is satisfied that the insurance that they have
submitted complies with the requirements of the local law. I raised an issue about the
sufficiency ofthe surety bond and I am pleased to tell you that Onuriipoint first resisted
because they said this was the bond that everybody uses. I explained that the 'Town of iyden
wasn't everybody and we had specific requirements and they had to corpply with our
requirements, Sure enough, the Vigilant insurance Company redid the bond according to our
local law requirements. They have also furnished us proof that the Vigilant Xrisurance Company
which is the surety on the bond is on the Department of Treasury's list of approved sureties, so
that issue has been taken care of, I received yesterday or today some materials from My- Kulik.
I'm not sure what they say. One of them apparently has to do with the structural analysis.
Page 29 of 53
Another has to do with a non4 xt 'erence certificate and a certificate of emissions. I know that
if these are submined to our consultant, he will not find them acceptable because they are not
iri the particular form that he wants. However; a reading of the statement from Omnipain#
clearly show that the emissions are under the level that are permitted. It is only .20% of the
permitted level. The material submitted from Omnipoint under seal from a New York engneer
also says that based on the conclusions in certain enginee ring reports, it is the opinion of this
engineer that the levels of the interference are below regulatory limits and we do have a
consent of the landowner, which I don't think complies, but we have a consent of a landowner
to make application, We still have the lease question open and apparently we have the
structural certificate open. Henry has some materials on the structural certificate. I thought
that those probably were sLfFicient. It did require some modifications to the tower which did
not include increasing the height.
O Slater - Other than the items that Mahlon spent same time on its poS'Cn le that you
could grant approval to issue to the construction permit conditioned upon them cteaning up
these little pieces of housekeeping.
Atty Perkins - The local law favors co- location and the Towxx Board is specifically given
the power to waive any requirements set forth in the local law which would otherwise apply to a
newly site built tower. So if you are trying to encourage ca- location you may want to consider
when these other life safety issues such as the structural certificate are satisfactorily addressed
that you waive any formalities of the form which these are in if they otherwise indicate that
there is not going to be any interference and the emissions are below the regulated Levels,
upv Schug - What Dick is saying is that he wants a certain layout of the answers to
this problem, rather than what they have supplied. I think that co- location is very important.
I thin* it is a. real good &5t stelr. I think that if Dick can use what theyW put through,
understand it and use it, that he should bend in this case to get it done. I would say when we
build a new tower that we stay strictly to the letter of the law. 0
Atty Perkins - All we are doing is waiving the formality of the form in which the
information was presented.
Supv Schug - Can't you o.sk them to in the future please give the stuff the way we asked
for it-
$ormie Staves, representing Ononipoint - Mark Kulik is my boss and I ca=e for a
learning expenence. ;i c-an asSUXe you that the information is complete. We are trying to
comply with the Town and work together as a team- Comlocation is important. I can get the
information to you by the end of this week.
Atty Perkins - This was approved and we are working now admirustrratively to make
sure that they have complied-
O Slater - 1 guess we are looking for a little bit of cam 'W before the horse in putting
together some final statistical structural data, for instance at 160° rather than 165'. There is a
five foot difference in the structural analysis for where the co- location placement is- A couple
of minor things like that. Initially Dick didn't have a problem, then all of a sudden he had a
laundry list and he's been away.
B Staves - With the structural data, you need to rexuernber that we are a company that
doesn't like to take huge risks. If structU ally the tower is not going to hold us woe are not going
to put our antennae up there- I don't know how mu& work it is going to be for the a 4paeer, I
don't know how long, it would take- 41
Pagc 10 of 53
TB 1i1- 12-99
Atty Ferldns - I think the direction the Board might want to consider is with respect to
the structural analysis, you certainly could give approval based on the report that was
submitted_ If construction is, other than tl aC,
rep<}rt requires some increased guy wires and
order to protect the integrity of the tower with
conditions of any approval, and if in fact they
have to provide that other engineering report
understood?
13 Staves - Yes.
they will have to submit another report. That
some other things to be done to the tower in
these other antennae on it. 'Those will be
are going to do it at a different height, they will
For that other height. Is that reasonabXe and
Atty Perkins - The er neenng report that they submitted did an analysis based on
antennas installed at a particular height, but according to Omnipoint their intent is to install
there at a different height which is S feet lower. If they are not going to install the antennae
and make the improvements suggested ion the engineering report, then they don' have a
permit. They have to submit another engineenng report for a different height. I think the non-
interference certificate speaks for itself. That item I bunk would be complete. The same with
respect to the certificate of emissions. As far as I can tell there is just the open issues of the
lease and I have already discussed with them how we can handle that, and the structural
issues, The issues have been narrowied sigpificantly.
B Staves - If we do commit
to a
time
frame to do
this, I know that we're under the gun
to start construction. With that in
mind, if
I do comply
with this and get this in as quickly as
passible, would we be able to work
together
to get that construction permit?
O Slater - I can assure you that we can take care of that overnight.
Atty Perkins - I will get in touch with Alr, Kulik regarding the lease. I Chink what Henry
would like is the sense of the Board expressed in a resolution that when thane issues are
resolved a;ay other formalities are waived by the Town Board because of the co- location effort
that is being made by Omnipoint,
REWL TION # 181 � APPROVE OMNIPCIINT CONSTRUCTION PERMIT
Cl C Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoptioin:
RESOLVED, by this Town Board that. wben the issues regarding the lease and
structural certificate are resolved and properly presented by Omnipoint, the other formalities
regarding the farm in which the information has been presented will be waived, and a
constructions permit may be issued to Omnipoint to co- locate un Simms Hill Road.
11u Cl Crantham
Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
O Slater � The XkK landscape update is next. ( 1.5 Ellis Drive) They had some trees
that died acid being part of a butler they have to replace those gees and maintain them. I
notified thew tfus summer of the situation and I also advised them at that time the timing was
not advisable. I spoke to M-AK late last week and they have ordered their replacement trees,
They should be installed sometime the &st half of October, but I assure you it is big taktm
care of.
Page 31 of 53
TB I0 =12 -99
MA & Quarry Road - As you all ]stow the Supezvisor was instructed to write the
Chairman of the BA a letter requesting them to revisit the conditions of approval granted May
1395 to Finger Lakes Stone to expand their quarry into new lands acquired 4a that time. The
concern was night operations in the stone miles facility which is adjacent to Quarry Road on
a. separate parcel of property, Prior to the meetvr g of the Z BA I spoke to DEC who basically
told me their pronaty concern w-as with the wining operation. They considered the processing
of stone a separate issue from the quarry and that they didn't have any authority over that,
industrial operation {their classification). I reported that to the 2BA. They considered that and
the night operations. They asked their legal counsel for advice and were advised that the terms
that they had applied to the variance that they granted were the items of wb ich they could
make a determination of whether or not the Finger Lakes Stone Company was in conformance
with that particular variance. Item #4, condition #4 of that variance states that the stone
company must be in conformance wit% the terms of the DEC min ng permit issued in March of
1395. Since Only the DEC cart make that determination regarding conforroaince I was
requested by the BA to make a written request to the DEC to revisit that rroini g permit for the
purpose of determining whether or not Xt Was in conformance with the conditions of that
particular mining permit. I spoke to DEC and they said they would be happy to revisit that
and make a formal report of their findings back to the Town of i)ryden-
orika Henderson - The lawyer I spoke to in Albany with the DEC said that the cutting
of stone is not art industrial process Because it is not dun& mentally altering the material. If
the quarry were making Concrete or some kind of compound it would be considered
manufacturing, but the cutting of stone she thought was just an extension of quarrying. Who
did you contact?
.O dater � I contacted Michael Barylski who is the permit issuing agent in Region 7,
and Joe Muakowitz who is the other perm in Syracuse who is also involved in that permit -
They will be the two people who will be revL%tiug that permit -
Henderson � I would like to contact them too, Because the lawyer seems to know more
than either of those two offices,
.O dater - DEC has to operate within their own frame work.
Cl Grantham - There are a couple of other things about the discussion with the ZBA,
Randall Marcus pointesd out that the v no
a nce wa,s only issued for the expansion of the quarry,
not for the original part of the quarry, because the original p was there for something like a
100 years and wins a pre - existing, non - conforming use. The DEC permit was in two parts -
There was the quarry permit and there was the SEAR declaration. The SEQR declaration was
not referenced in the DEC permit and the SEAR declaration had hours of operation, some
conditions in it. But they werenkt referenced in the permit. And the variance tlida't reference
either the SEQR declaration or the pert- So we are kind Of stuck unless the DEC ultimately
says its not an industrial operation it is part of quarry, I don't know that we can do anything
about the hours of operation at the stone - cutting part,
Henderson - Can still hear them at night. During the sxunmer they have a computer
driven saw and when the doors are opera it looks like a big carport and you hear an undulating
whine. The other thing they do is simply violate their hours- you'll hear them at 5930 a-m, on
atuday morning and very often at daixm, especially Spring Summer and Fall. There are big
crashing nndse_s. A lot of people have asked them to please conform with their operatLqg hours.
upv Schug - The strangest thing about the operating hourR is that they are the ones
that suggested it. The Z13A didn't pick it up and put it in and neither did DEC, 0
Page 32 of 53
TH 1W12m99
Atty Perkins - I'm not sure that simply because they are not there that that's fatal,
Those were representations they made and based on those repxesenta,tions that variance vr-as
granted_
Supv S chug - I think youVe. got to go back to DEC and explain that to them. The owner
made the representation that he would live within these hours and now he is working outside
those hours_
Atty
Perkins -
I'm not sure we
should be looking to DEC to enforce that as opposed to
the Toviiz_ I
don't think
you are going
to get anywhere with DEC,
1 Grantham - Don't we need some sort of judgment from DEC about whether the stone
clatting operation that is in the bu -Udix s is quarry or something separate and not covered
under their permit? Isn't that the question we need to get an answer to?
Atty Perkins - I'm not sure that's relevant_
Cl Grantham - That is what's operating outside of their operating hours.
Atty Perkins - They are supposed to operate their business within certain hours,
Cl Grantham - No, the DEC permit is for the quarrying operation. The Cortland Office
is saying that the stone cutting inside the building is not part of the quarry operation, it is an
industrial process. The DEC in Albany is saying that's not true, it is part of the quarry
operation. Somehow that has to be resolved before we can do anything,
Supv $chug - I agree_
Cl Grantham - And i think that you wrote the vanariee, so maybe you should write the
letter to the DEC.
Atty
Perkins -
I
m not sure it needs to
go to DEC,
i think
the Town might have the right
to enforce it
anyway,
I
donut know what DEC
has said
or
anything
else
-
O Slater - Primarily, the hours of operation that have been latched onto by various
Parties was a representation in the SEQR part one application that accompanied the mintrig
permit application to DEC submitted by Finger Lakes Store Company. One of the findings in
the negative SEQR declaration said that the applicant stated that his business hours were
such and such. The ZBA would not act until he had a min' � permit. He was exempted under
prior status of having been in business. He filed for and was &ranted a permit in March of
1995 and the ZBA responded in May of 1995 once he produced that mining permit and granted
the variance, One of the conditions was adhering to the conditions of the DEC permit.
Atty Perkins - I'm saying that I don't think that is necessarily the war you need to
proceed, you don't need to go through DEC,
Cl Grantham -There please advise xis on what we can do
Atty Perkins - I can't do it off the cuff, bit I'd be glad to take a look at it,
O Slater - The Town has never limited or set any hours irx any form or manner on that
business. The rinly place any hours are ever referred to is in his Part One SEAR application.
Atty Perkins - I understand. The case might be made that as part of the environmental
review he made a representation that these are my business Hours and the ZBA, if it was
Page 33 of 53
TB 1Q- i2. -9t)
before the ZBA was certainly something they could consider when they allowed him to extend
this use_
1 Grantham - M I want is an opinion on what we can do. Because I think it has been
over a year and half since I started talking about this, and now I have dates and tunes that the
guy was open past oper4bug hours. I went to the ZBA and so on and so forth, so I guess it's
your job now, Mahlon,
Atty Perkins � Ill be glad to take a look at it.
C1 Grantham - Thank you_
Mark Varvayanis - I would say laving some experience in the way the ZBA operates,
EYst l agree with Mahlon that certainly Henry can go down there and say we think you should
operate within the hours you sge fled_ The guy Then Carr either decide to
ignore Henry and
wait for Henry to pull the permit or comply with Henry. if Henry pulls his permit and then the
guy goes to the ZBA, the ZBA obviously will go back to the DEC, which is what they referenced
I
v the first ease. You might as well go to the DEC now if you are a�craoffiy planning on having
Henry pull the guy's variance. The ZBA did make their variance contingent on the DEC permit
and if the guy applies for a �1ing on Ierll's [lecisioYi, they are not going to go against the
DEC.
$upv
Schug - The
DEC needs to deride what is manufacturing and what is * uxu g
and
get back to us. By the same token if Mahlon
thi -nks that we can enforce this thing we can
start.
ZG Slater - That just part one of this project_
upv $chug - Jaek is working on part two
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS
Supv Schug - We have in our budget next year provisions for a. new John Deere Gator.
It s recoinixxended we sell the old gator now because of hunt[ng season. Larry and Jack wm ld
like to put this up for sale for a minasnum hid of $6,500.009 We don't really use it much during
the winter, but it is handy for the rest of the }year.
C1 T Hatfield - If you look at page two of the report they put together you'll see that the
cost for a new one has actually gone down about $150 from what we paid. We're selling it for
almost what it cost us and it's i1we we replaced it.
RESOLUTION # 18 -PUT JOHN DBE OATOR OUT TO DID
Dl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption_
RESOLVED, that the Department of Public Works is hereby authorized to put the John
Deere Gatur out to bid, n,iriirreum bid hemp $6,500.
2nd Cl C Hatfield
Roll Gau Vote
HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Page 34 of 53
TB 10 -12-99
upv chug -Jack, do you mind ifwt� move Zorika Henderson up to your portion now.
Do you have ynur cnpy of the letter Zorika faxed? (Offered Jack his copy Zorika is going to
have her driveway worked on. She has a problerna with drainage- Now that we have Dave, Jack
and Zorika all in one room, we can discuss it. Her contractor is going to charge $549 to fix it.
I'd like to have Dave, Jaok and Zorika go throt gb the project axed why we are at this point.
Z Henderson - We have a dip in the road (hat u=urred when the road was repaved-
Water, especially inning heavy rains, rushes dawn that channel, leaps sideways and goes in
front of our mailbox, then along the shoulder and continues down our steep gravel driveway
-
The driveway has washed out especially in one lane. When I contacted Randy Riker a year ago
he was content to go along with what we wert planning to dv and didn't feel the need to
blacktop the entire road. We hKve an enormous turnaround even though we 've only got five
houses on a small culYde -sac. It has been oil and stone for the zuost part- The amain lane is
blacktopped, but the rest is oil and Ntune and we would like to leave it like that. Randy v ss all
set to repair the road, but a subcontractor's machine broke down in the Fall so it couldn't be
done. When Jack took over 1 contacted him and we felt that his approach was overkill for the
situation, that we joist need regrading. It would be nice to get the channel filled, but even if the
channel w-asn't repaired this year, to get the shoulder to slope north rather than south toward
our driveway. That alone would make a big difference- We didn't want the road widened in
front of the mailbox because it is a little rural road with only five houses on it. A big widening
is unappealing to us and we feel unnecessary. We think this would actually save a lot of
money too, to do it in this minor way,
Supv Schug - You gentlemen said when you were up and talked to Zorikaamd her
husband that you left there thinkmg that everything was set to go ahead and do what you had
suggested.
D Putnam - Yes.
J Bush _ The impression I left with was that we had come up with a solution and I
basically said that before I came up and did any work that I would call two days ha advance
and let them know.
Cl Grantham - And the work that you agreed to was what Zorika just described,
Supv Schug - No. And what happened after you thought you were set to go do it?
J Kush - Several weeks later she called me and a had a discussion and she wanted to
d it a different way and l basically felt that there was nothing that I could do to solve the
problem and make her happy- I"m sure she feels I was bind of rude, but I thought our
conversation was over. She got upset and she hung the phone up vn me,
Z Henderson - Maintains Jack hung tip on her.
Supt/ Schug - Dave, what was your impression?
D Putnam - I thought we had resolved something and we had a plan. Jack was going to
call her before he s farted work-
Z Henderson - We expressed reservations about having the whole thing blacktapped.
You did not want to retreat from that and we felt we had reached in impasse- An extra wide
road was not appealing to us-
J Bush -You need to realise that the area she is taUdng about is the actual tulm
around for the snow plow. The purpose of the blacktop was for several reams. So that we
Page 35 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
wouldn't have to come up every year and refix the same old problem where the wing catches
and digs in and . , . 49
Henderson - You h�Lvan't repaired that road in ages.
J Bush - They come up every year noXUxaUy after you have called ....
Henderson - That's not true - - -
J Bush - That's the area that gets dug up with the plow-
Henderson - They never come up and fix it,
J Bush - When you have celled in be£oxe complauung about the flowers getting dug
UPr9.
Henderson - They spread such heavy cinders that after a heavy storm we are Left with
a high wall of snow and with the amount of cinders mixed in and the ice, you can't shovel by
hand or use our snowblower. It's a tat of Problems. But they haven't repaired that road since
the last repaving, five years ago,
upv Schug - David, have you looked at the quotation that she has?
D Puttram - No.
upv Schug - Jack, show him yours. Put your heads together. You have decide
whether or not it meets with your approvaJ to spend highway funds and then its up to the
board to salve orska's problem before the snow flies and she can't get down her driveway
because of the ruts ... is
Henderson - It is just a small thing to change the grade su it is going away from our
driveway and change the amount of cinders that may be blacking some water from dissipating
off to the side- We won't create a culvert or anything like that. It will. be a gradual type of
thing•
J Bush - My question to you ZorAm is that if we do this work, what happens when it
doesn't work? How many times is the Highway Department going to have to come back up
there?
Henderson - We had a. bunch of driveway contractors look at it and they all felt that
the epicenter of this trouble was the channel itself, but also the fact that the shoulder should
be going away from our driveway, and that even if the channel weren't corrected, getUxig the
water flow going the other direction would protect our driveway- We wouldn't be suggesting
this if we thought it v*e n't going to work. We had a lot of people look at it and we are going
on that basis.
C1 Grantham - Jack, what work did you Propose to fix the problem?
J Bush ^ As you look at the turn around, her driveway is to the right, there is an area
where you can see where the mailman pulls in- With a ten wheel iruck of course you need a lot
of area to turn around. To the right side as you are looking at her driveway, that whole area
there, I just wanted to pave that over further so that when the plow or the wing came in there
to push that snow, it wouldn't cnntinue to dip that down. In Past of that paving process I
warped to make the grade of the Pavement so that any of the mater that is channelling that she
L
s talkirg about would 1un to the end of the turn around instead of puddling up and going
Page 36 of 13
TB 10 -12 -99
dawn her driveway. Her complaint is basically that she doesm -t want any more blacktop, but
on the other hand, I feel that it benefits the Highway Department for the purpose of the
snowplows turning around. One thing that she does know now aftez taU ng to her is that I
had planned to experiment with a truck on that particular road. That truck will also
be using salt. That may eliminate the sand problem that she is tallflng about. Again, when
Dave and I met with her and hpz husband, I really believed that we had a solution.
Unfortunately time has passed n w, and I don't even ka w if we have ti ne to get up there and
do anything.
Cl Grantham W She is pro-posing to have her contractor do it_
upv 5chug - That is why I asked her to have her contractor take a look and let him do
it rather than us if we're too busy Zorika also unformed me that she talked to someone in the
Highway Department ether than you, somebody she knows, who said the Highway Departm it
didn't have any work to do.
Henderson - I called and the person said that on this particular day people had left
early because they did not have al lot of work to do. Someone else was teM ng me that they were
so busy that they couldn't possibly get to our project_
J Bush - It sounds like a matter of interpretation. Guys are allowed sick time and that
type of thing and to do certain projects you have to have certain people available, as well as
equipnpernt_
Henderson would not reveal who told her they had nothing to do
Supry $chug - What
do you think
about
the price David? And
wM
it fix the prohlem?
D Putnam - Flo,
because the
snowplow
is going to push it out
this
winter.
J Bush - If it doe='t work, who is going to fix it next time? Who is going to pay for it
next time?
Henderson, - That road has been there 30 years and seems to have held up well
except for settling and creating this channel. The shoulder has been eaters out by the defect in
the road,
Supv Schug - `you've heard both sides of the story_ ZDrika waits to get her driveway
fixed and she did wait a long time, It redly has to get fixed before the wintertinxe_
D Putnam - One of the things we talked about, 7not the final solution, was to swale and
if 1 read that correctly it is going to discharge the water directly down the bank toward your
property instead of go4ig dawn your driveway. That was one of the things we talked about, re.
shaping the road to do that, but it wasn't acceptable that clay,
Super chug - I talked wilt orika there one day when it was drizzling rain. I said I see
what the problem is and you want to get the water away from your driveway, e.s-pecially the
right hand rut because that was deeper_
Henderson - We never had this problem until after the last paving of the road.
1 Grantham - - Dave, you are saying that you remember her coming up with a solution
that is c�Lr ar to this one,
Flage 37 of 53
T6 10=1249
D Putnam - It was one of the things that we just talked about and was rerectad that
day...
Cl Grantham - And you think this will work?
D Putnam -Dig&g a roadside ditch across the end of the turn around and her
driveway was one of the things we talked about, but they didn't like that because you are stM
sending the water down on their property- ICs either got Co go down the original ditch which
has filled in over time and the water can't get to, its gat to go down her driveway or down the
south bank toward their property. It's got to go one of those three places-
Henderson - I want to make a correction, there was never a ditch there,
D Putnam � There are still remnants of a ditch.
Henderson - Only a very light, tiny thing. It was never an actual ditch.
Cl Grantham - So you think this can work is what you are saying, Dave?
I) Putnam - If it was blavrLktop it would probably worla
run acid ft is formed lilce this, the plow is going to sit on this
other side and gush that material right forward. It -nay last
going out of the ground and no matter how hard it is now, it
snowplow will just move it.
acid stay there. If it i-s crasher
side and stick nil` and dig into the
until spring when the frost is
is 90=4 to be soft and the
Henderson - The material the contractoT is going to use isn't crusher run.
D
Putm= - When
the
frost
gets in and there is moi, tune it becomes soft.
Henderson - He
has
done
driveways and other things with this material and it stays
very compact,
upv Scbug � It's $528. If the Tovm spends it and puts this in and it doesn't work, and
we use a small truck to help the situation, are you willing to pay to fix it next year and the year
after Zorika if it doesn't work.
Henderson - I don't know.
Cl Grantham - What if we Flo it this way more or less and if it doesn't warm Cheri you
reimburse the Town for the exact amount? If it doesn't work then you don't want it that way
anyway, right?
Henderson - Right-
Supv Schug - Pt's up to the Board members to decide if they want to spend $500 by
Your mailbox. Deb's suggestion and mine was the same thing. If we spend this money and get
your contractor to do it and it doesn't work out, are you goixV to pay us back the $500 and
allow us to do it the way we said we would with some blacktop next year?
Hendcrsnri When Bandy was going to do this last year we weren't paying for it. He
was going to do it and there wasWt this argument, Were been put in a bind,
J Bush - One thing I did try to explain to you is that process on Ellis Hollow Creek
Road, there is no way they could have done what Randy proposed to do because the equipment
did not do that 40
Page 38 of 53
TB 1042 -99
Henderson - I'm just telling you what Randy said,
J Bush - I triad to tell you that on the phone and I don't thixxk you believed anything I
vas trying to tell you. I was trying to be honest and I do want your problem fixed because I
don't want you to keep coming in end complauuug every Year. It would he silly for you or
anybody here to think that i want you unhappy calling me every year with a complaint.
Henderson - I want everyone to go to Sunny Knoll Road and see all the other houses.
They don't have blacktop to the mailboxes- They have a shoulder, gravel, sometivng-
J
Bush -
You have to remember
your situation is different because you
have a driveway
right ioff
the end
of the turnaround. It's
not like your driveway is off
the
said of
the road.
Z Henderson - My point is there has got to be a way to put it so the blacktop doesn't go
right up to the tuailbo es, Other people don't have this problem. Why do we need another
eight feet of pavement guirxg out especially after all the Years u *hen everything was working fine
until that final repaving of that road. There must be something that worked all those years
and yet we never had blacktop in front of our mailboxes.
1 Grantham - I would like to propose that we agree for orika's contractor to do the
work as described here because Dave thinks it will work, and if it doesn't work are you willing
to . --
Z Henderson. - I need a Little reassurance that there will be some care taken in the
plowing, some due caution.
upv
e-hug - When I told you about Jack
using a small truck on
that road you
indicated you already knew about it. I think that
one -ton truck will make a difference in haw it
gets. dug up.
You say that turn aro und Looks like
a V alMart parking lot,
but get in a ten
wheeler and
plow with a guy for a couple of hours
azrd tell me if you can
turn around in a T
that doesn't
have to be as big as that one I don't
think that is a big turn
around. That is not
an easy rig to turn,
J Bush - The one -ton truck will be tried on that road this year, Observatory Circle, a
section of Fi -eese Road that we already do, Sunny Knoll, hopefully if he has enough time, Hurt
Grove, Bmok Tree.,.
Supv Schug - We have a problem because we have to do a great number of bridges with
a one ton- You may not get plowed as early as you are used to getting it plowed and the guy
who used to plow your road tried really hard to do a goad job- He's retired now,
Henderson - It
worries me to say Yes, well reimburse no matter what somebody doss
With a plow. 'Fhe contractor told me it makes a big difference with the angle you put plow down
at, If you don't do it right, YOU gouge.
Supv Schug � Your road is very crowned, too, and worn- The plow blade slides along -
They can loose one of the shoes on the plow and they won't even knew its Bane and the plow
could be digging up for 20 minutes or half an hour before they realize its gone. That's what
Iceeps the plow floating along. If you are willing to go along with what Deb has proposed, then
fine-
Henderson - Can we have in there that they have to be really careful with plowing and
gentle and not be so hag wild?
Page 39 of 53
TB IOwI2, -99
1 Gram lham - We '1l try it with the one ton.
Cl C Hatfield - Zorika, last year they shouldered our roads and the first snow we got the
shoulder wasn't froze, and that man plowed along and he didn't intentionally want to dig it up,
but he did. He threw gravel all over the lawns and that is just part of plower the road, They
treat everybody's property the same_ Yours isn't the only property that gets dug up, but if'you
ever rein a snowplow or machinery you know they always don't work the same. They can't
guarantee that they aren't going to dig that up, I don't believe,
Cl Grantham � I think that if we at least use the one ton truck., .
Supv Schug -'That should help,
Cl Grantham - I think we can at least say that in the resolution.
J Bush - I
would snake sure
that
you don't put yourself in a po mtion where we can't go
back to tixsing the
big truck because
this
is an experiment_
Supv Schug - It maybe that you're gaing to have to wait on your road. You may riot
have a plow when you want_ The only other thing we can do is have you agree not to have us
plow the road.
Henderson - Other people live on it, I can't make that derision,
upv Scb ug -You
can get
your neighbor
to sign
off or move the turnaround further
away from your driveway.
There is
a lot of things
we can
do_
C1 Grauthaw - So if we do the resolut iota that says your contractor can do the work as
you propose, and the Town will reimburse you, the Town will experiment with the one ton
truck this winter, and will reevaluate it in the Spring, and if it worked, we're all set. If it
doesn't work, then you'll have to reimburse the Town,
Z Henderson R How many years will that go on? If they dig it up five years from now , ..
Cl Grantham - I'm going to say reevalute in the Spring.
Henderson - Ilia worried about getting ourselves into a situation we can't control.
Supv Schug - A-ad if she doesn't reimburse, we-1l put it on her taxes. We have the right
to do that,
C1 C Hatfield - Are we setting a precedent for fixing individual driveways?
Cl Grantham -We just did it,
upv Schug - The sewer line was in jeopardy. The sewer district is paying for it. This is
a road that everybody pays for, Zorika is asknig for something special. If you want to give it to
her fine_
Cl Granth;B= - y understanding was that the reason she is asking for it and I thought
that Dave and Jack were saying the wore thing, that the damage to her driveway is caused by
the problem with the road, and that this why we are evert cozisid cring this.
Page 40 of 53
Ts 1042 -99
Hemderson - Jack did say at one paint that he would be willing g to put gravel down,
but if it gets shoved off onto our bank that he doesn't ever warn to come back and fix it. He
was wMing to put gravel down with that proviso.
J Bush - That was along the edge of the blacktop because there was going to be a mall
area off of the edge of the payment that would be kind of a drop off where the mailman drove in
to deliver the mail.
Henderson - I would really like to do it without that kind of attachment because I
think it is a reasonable thing to try and I can't guarantee it will work any more than you can
guarantee that the plow won't gauge it,
Cl Grantham
- I want
to
go back to the paint that I thought that Jack and Dave thought
that the problem was
caused
by
the Town road.
D Putnam - Water going down the driveway is Che cause of the erosion. Water coming
down the road can't get in the ditch anymore because it has. beer' filled in and she doesn't want
any more bushes and stun` cut so you can get, ..
Henderson - i've pt to interrupt. That is what I wanted Jim to came look at. Water
never even makes it off to the shoulder. It never even goes that way. This channel completely
hugs the water and will not let anything go off, then it leaps off in front of our mailbox,
D Putnam
- That is also
where the ditch is
and
the ditch
is
on that side near your
driveway —the old
ditch that was
there. The water
just
can't get
to
it anymore,
upv Schug - ,hack, what do you say? It is really highway dollars. The board I guess
could force you to do it, but we'd prefer not to. Is it alright with you if we pay for it this year
and if it doesn't work then she pays us back and we go back and blacktop it next year?
J Bush - My thought is that in spite of any previous conversation, I still believe that I
want her problem to be fixed axed I am willing to try this. I don't think it is the answer. I tbirik
there will still be a problem, but , . .
upv Schug - So we don't have to do a resolution, The only agreement is that if it
doesn't work, Zorika, you pay us back the money we send you for havuig your contractor fist
this.
Henderson - I'm uncomfortable with that because I don't have control over what
happens and if things go wrong, even if it was blacktopped something could go wrong and l
don't have control over the Highway Department, We are having to pay to redo our whole
driveway and we're not asking the Town to reimburse us even though it is a lot of money. The
Town ought to be willing to do this and repair on its side_
Cl C Hatfield - If you aren't comfortable with that situation, why don't you give them a
chance to correct it their way and see if that works?
Henderson - Because their way is just too 'ouch. It's blacktapping an enormous turn
around and its 'de a road t}iat's only got five houses it_ It's already gat a huge road on it_
Cl C Haffield - The only part they axe going to mjden is the turn around. isn't that right?
Z Henderson - They are going to widen a very large area in front of our mailbox_ it
would be almost )like another lane at that -point,
Page 41 of 53
T5 10=12 -99
Cl C
Hatfield
� I
bet the
mailman would appreciate that blacktop in front of the mailbox.
Atty
Perkiroks -
Is
this one of the roads the Toum has a deed to?
1 T Hatf eld - Yes.
Atty Perkins -
You
don't need
any permission for Jack to work that property. It's up to
you to decide how to
best
didn't want
protect the
do it that way,
integrity of the Town.
Supv Schug - We have to find out if it is ours.
$ liollenbeck - l believe we have the deed to that roafl.
Supv Schug � So, what's your pleasure?
C1 C Hatfield - She wants it fixed but she wants to fix it her way and no responsibility.
Henderson - Randy was
going to
fix
it like that last year. I don't know why it is such
a
big issue now, because Jack
didn't want
to
do it that way,
Cl C Hatfield - I take it if it gets fixed l ndy'%'way it isn't going to wash out next year.
J Bush - Probably not. Ne actually, I believe, was proposing to bring a grinder in these
and regrind the road in that section where she kept talking about that the water is eha clling.
Then you'd have to go back and repave it_ It would have been quite expensive to do,
Henderson - He was going to make the road flatter through that part with the
depression,rx the shoulder he was going have gravel and not do any paving on the twin
around. He was w1lwi g to do that. He's a smart guy, I don't we why this has ever become such
a big issue. It wouldn't even have come to the board. If the equipment hadn't broken down
last summer or M we wouldn't evert be having this conversahon, the work would have already
been done.
Varvayanis - How much would it cost to just put more blacktop in the depression
and re€sawn it if really that is the trouble in the first place?
1 C Hatfield - That's what he wants to dOr Put blacktop down and divert the water in a
different direction.
Supv Schug - She doesn't want to.
Varvayanis - It's just oil e rarnor dip and I understand you don't want the blacktop
Spread out. You want to fill i the depression so .,.
Henderson - It's a very big T for five houses and we're uncomfortable with it. Acl we
want is a minor fLx -
J Bush - It probably could be done, but she didn't want anymore blacktop, period. And
the other thing is if you just shim over that more than 1ik7el the plow v�ll just rip it out
because you are talking about a thin layer_ 'That's why Randy was tacking about grinding the
road back out. He would have found out he couldn't have that if the equipment hadn't broken
down_ It's a different type of grinder, called a recycle train, and a paving process where
everything is done at once. That type of equiprncnt dawn °t separate like he thought it could.
I'm not trying to find bandy at fault. I lust believe that at the time be didn't know you couldn't
separate the machines.
Page 42 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
® Z Henderson - He was going to put gravel in front of our mailbox and I don't know why
you wanted to put another enormous area of blacktop...
J Bush - I'm not saying that is wrong, I'm saying that is not going to solve your
problem. When a plow comes through the gravel is going to get dug back up unless it is frozen.
As you know in the last few years we don't have the freezes we used to have, so that
continually is a problem for all the snow plow drivers.
Z Henderson - What is in front of our neighbors' mailboxes? Other neighbors have got
shoulders where they don't have blacktop right to their lawn, so why ....
J Bush - Because the plow is coming straight down the road instead of trying to turn
around and puts the snow back...
Z Henderson - That's part of what your mistake is. They never do that. They come
down the road. They turn left on the opposite of our driveway then they back up into our
driveway then they go around again. They don't do what you are saying. That is one of the
problems.
J Bush -'that I can't argue with because I haven't plowed that route.
Supv Schug - That's Henry's fault for allowing her to put her driveway at the end of the
turn around.
Z Henderson - I'm saying they don't drive like that. They come straight down.
Supv Schug - Zorika, you can't have it both ways. If you want, well reimburse you to
have it done this way, if you will pay us back if it doesn't work next year. Take it or leave it. If
you don't like it then you can fix it any way you want this year, pay for it, if it doesn't work and
you want it fixed next year well do it. We 've already used up a good half hour of the Board's
time discussing the problem, and I want to be understanding...
Z Henderson - This has to be decided right now, while you are still in session?
Supv Schug - Well, we can wait until next month.
Z Henderson - In
other words,
it can't. be tomorrow
because you are here now. I'm not
going to make a decision
independent
of my husband who
is not here with me.
Supv Schug - We can't make a decision without the board being in session. It's illegal
to do that. That's been pointed out before. It's an open meeting.
Z Henderson - If I had some more control over the kind of plowing that: is done.
Supv Schug - Other than you plowing it yourself there is no way we can guarantee the
road being plowed.
M Varvayanis - It just seems to me that. you have to trust them a little bit.
Z Henderson - I 've got to tell you something right now, I don't want to be pretentious,
but he is lying. He is lying about who hung up on whom that day. He has lied to me about not
widening Ellis Hollow Creek Road. Right to my face he said it wasn't going to get widened. It
did. You lie like crazy. Of course I don't trust him.
Page 43 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
M Varvayanis - Well, that was the point I was going to make. If you think Jack Bush is
such a crazy guy and he's going to come up there and intentionally plow up your road, when
they are evaluating it next spring hopefully you can provide some evidence that it was done on
purpose and they can take that into account.
Z Henderson - I just
want to say that
we are having
to pay to have it redone. If what
Randy said would work, we
wouldn't
have to
reimburse the
town.
Supv Schug - Randy was talldng about grinding and redoing that whole road. Now
that's a damn expensive project. If you want that ...
Z Henderson - No, he wasn't. He was only talking about redoing between our next door
neighbor's property and the end of the straight part of the T, not about doing the rest of it.
Just a small portion.
Supv Schug - Youll have to ask Randy that. Do you remember that, Jack?
J Bush - Yeah, I agree with what she is saying, but it is still expensive.
Cl Grantham - Zorika, do you want to
go
call your husband from a
phone here? (Mrs.
Henderson left the room
to use the telephone
in
the
Clerk's Office and
call
her husband.)
Supv Schug - Okay, Jack, let's keep going and do the snow and ice workshop. What is
the cost of that?
J Bush - It is S30 per person. I'd like to send five people if they still have openings. I
have picked people that I thought we would experiment with straight salt. One would be like
Larry Carpenter doing Sunny Knoll.
RESOLUTION 1I183 - SEND HIGHWAY EMPLOYEES TO SNOW AND ICE
CONTROL WORKSHOP
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby authorizes the attendance of five (5) Highway
Department employees at a Snow and Ice Control Workshop, said employees to be designated
by the Deputy Highway Superintendent.
2" a Cl C Hatfield
Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Supv Schug - How about Quarry Road? You wrote them a letter. I believe everybody
has a copy of it.
J Bush - Yes. I haven't heard back. I haven't seen any changes. I believe the board
has been removed.
Supv Schug - I noticed the hose is still there.
Cl Grantham - It's still there.
•
Rige 44 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
J Hush - I would
like the Board's
support
that if I do go and take that away, Lhat I am
doing the right thing, 1S
there anything I
can get
in trouble for as far as tajdng his property?
Supv Schug - It is laying in the road right
of way.
Atty Perkins y Has he been warned?
J Bush - Yes.
Arty Perkins - Go for it.
J Bush - Hunt Hitt update - The only thing to add at this point is that we have been
shimming all the band spots in the road. Basically it has to be donne before I start plowing so
that is how I am solving that for now unto I get through the rest of the process_ I believe you
should have a copy having to do with approving roads for a 5 ton weight limit and seasonal
use,
Supv Schug - read the proposed resolution_
J Bush , Depending on how much time it takes to make this procedure happen, down
the line I tltiirsk that needs to be reevaluated. I can't understand why there is a certain time
period and l feel that if you are going to post these roads it should be for the whole year_ There
shouldn't be a specified time period.
Supv Schug - The
reason they are done
this
way Jack, is
that these
roads are subject to
a lot mare heaving from frost and whatever over the
years, so we
wanted to
keep the weight
limits down on the
road.
Let's do it, post them,
a nrd
then review
them.
9,
0 J Bush - That would be fine, but I d.efiuitely think we should review what's there.
RESOLUTION 0184 - DESIGNATE TEMPORARY WEIGHT LIMITS ON ROAD
Cl C Hatfield offered the followir resolution and asked for its adoption.
RESOLVED, that this Town Board adapt an order temporarily excluding any vehicle
with a gross weight in excess of five (5) tons from the following town roads, from November 1,
1999 to June 1, 2000, The roads have been so pasted pursuazit to Vehicle and Traffic Law
1660(a) Section 11. The Town Clerk shall also post such notice at the Town Hall_
1,
Morris Road
2,
Ed Hill Road
3,
Bone Plain Road
4,
Bradshaw Road
5_
Walker Road
6,
Livermore Road
7_
Simms Hill Road
S_
Dutcher road
9,
George Roved
lo_
Upper Creek Toad
11-
Lower Creek Road
1_
West Dryden Road - from Scofield Rd to ,Asbury Rd
13,
Etna Road - from Mohawk to Hanshaw Road
14,
EM3 Hollow Creek Road
Page 45 of 53
TB ]()-12-A)9
The above roads v:l be reviewed by the Highway Superintendent prim to the wei&t
limit being removed on June IT 2000_
0 Cl T Hatfield
Roll Call Vote C1 Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
C1 G7antham Yes
Supv Schug We are putting a weight limit on and if you want to leave it on, we will
leave it on the road. If you want to change it and not keep it at five tons, you should make that
decision before this resolution is over_
J Bush - I feel that the weight limit should be on those roads, especially like Ellis
Hollow Creek Road.
Supv Schug - If you feel that's the way the whole thing should be, all the roads hex
you have checked them, then tell us and we'll do it for year round. You have a list of sea}irmal
limited use highway (read resolution).
RESOLUTION # 185 - DESIGNATE SEASONAL LII4IITED USE HIGHWAYS
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption=
RESOLVED, that this Town Board accept the following list of seasozial Umited use
highways upon the recommendation of the Highway Superintendent. These roads will not be
pl wed nor maintained from November 1999 through April 2000. The roads shall be pasted
with the appropriate si rs and the Town Clerk shah post such notice at the Town Hall,
1 _ [lile School Road - from #147 Ed Hill Road west to within approximately 500
feet of Route 88,
. Signal Tower Road - frota Card road north to the power line_
3. Star Stanton road - from approximately 800 feet west of Dryden - Hanford
Road west for approximately 3000 feet,
4, Caswell Road - from West Dryden road south for approximately _0 mile.
5. Beam
Hill Road
- from the
eastern boundary of tax map #50 -1 -18.2 south
to the
southern
boundary
of uax map #60 -1 6, 11
2nd Cl C Hatfield
Roll can Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield 'Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Supv Schug - Do you have any updates on CaswweU Road?
J Bush - No_
Supv Schug - Mt. Pleasant Subdivision, you approved your portion of that?
J Bush - Yes,
Page 46 of 53
TB 10-12 -99
upv Schug - Highway inventory, You all have that. Ville of Dryden water system, did
ycru ge that letter that just came?
J lush - No.
Supv Schug - We can talk about it later- The letter was to you from Mike Hattery-
J Bush - No, I didn't get that.
SUPERVISOR CORRESPONDENCE
upv Schug -
You
have the
paramedics
report and
You see the
funds arena rolling in
quite like they were-
Part
of the reason for that
is we have
fewer calls
and that is kind of nice-
I understand the EMC is looking for a resolution to supparC your resolution of 1 =99, the
State Forest Resolution.
Atty Perkins - I'd like to comment on that- I think before the Town takes a position it
ought to seek the input of some other users of the Mate Forests and Trails. They may not feel
that the warding; of that resolution is particularly appropriate and is overly restrictive, I would
encourage you to .1 ..
J Gerbasi - The idea was that the people iiikng would actually have perhaps one
system of trails and people using other means of transportation, including horses, have a
different system, since the horses c.arnbnrmg through a trail can damage the trail- 'What
particular part were you not happy with? We were trying to satisfy all comers for multiple use
-
O Kater - Does it have anything negative to say about snowmobiles?
J Oerhasx - Probably-
ZO Slater
- We pay a
registration fee to the
State of Now York every year to use those
trails and no one
else does-
We pay a recreational
fee.
upv Schug - IVfalon's feeling is that xt is quite restrictive, and the Board members
have not all had a chance to look at it,
J Gerbasi - The main portions we were concemed with was that the integrity of the
environment of New York State lands lie the prirat determinant of which activities shall be
permitted. Any activity which damages the lands resulting in erosion, channeling of water or
excessive sail compaction not be permitted, wildlife are not to he disturbed to the detriment of
their health by noi;;e or physical threat brot4ght on by recreational vehicles, trails designed for
hiking not be used by other recreational users, animals (and this is not very restrictive) not
engaged directly Mi lawful hunting must he restrained or under the dimct control of the
handler, and (the big thing here when you were not even informed originally) communities
having state forest lands within their boundaries should have direct input into planning and
manageme,ut of lands- Those wem more of the portions we were concerned with- That nothing
happens to damage the land or really disturb the wildlife unduly.
upv $chug - Do board members want to go further with this?
C1 Grantham - I thought it suinded fine to me. It seemed life it met the purposes of
having state lands.
C1 T Hatfield � ale can wait on Ar
Page 47 of 53
TS 10-12-99
Supv Schug - We had a, neighbor who requested a single street light at the intersection
of Sherbore RoaA and Route 366, The cost is approximately $140 per year.
Cl Grantham -They talked about a lighting district in the pt,
upv $chin - But they didn't want to pay for it-
Cl Grantham 4 So this is just for a light at the intersection, and it would go on the
general tax bill, $140.00 a year?
Supv Schug -Yes, it goes up a few bucks each year.
Gl GrantN3= - It seems like we could wanage. that.
•
Cl C Hatfield offered the follovAm resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLNIF, 1, that this Town Board request Ne York State Electric and Gas Corporation
to install a 70 -watt HYS street light at the intersectisrr of Sherbore Drive and Route 366, the
currmt approximate cost of which would be $140.00 yearly,
21,1E Cl Grantham
Roll Call Nate Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
C1 Grantham Yea
upv $chug - Zorika, what did your husband say:
Henderson � We are totally unprepared and he
should be. We were made promises by bandy using the
what happens, and then having to reimburse, We'd tike
least do this work, an o!adi rie, so that we axe not violatir,
do this work without violating some law or somethbV. I
sound like a very good deal,
really doesn't know what our decision
gravel there.Ue are not in contrcyl of
to get a resolution that we could at
g something for the Town, that we can
don't Imow what to say, it doesn't
Cl T Hatfield - Does what you just suggested say that you axe prepared to do the work,
and if it works next Spring., _ it sounded like you said that your husband had recommended
that you just wanted permission to do the work.
Henderson - Yeah, get a legal clearing and, I donut know,
Cl T Hatfield - So you are asking for the Highway Superintendent's permission to go
ahead and do the work yourself?
Henderson - bight, as outlined, like that. I know you are W) t meeting until next
month and we 've got to have the driveway work done. I'm at land of an impasse. I feel tike you
can't totalty control anybody. We can't control completely what the driveway contractor does.
We are dependent on everybody.
1 T Hatfield - I think we have at least Dave and Jack say that daem was azl agreement
at one time that the Highway Department was prepared to take action at one time and you did
Page 49 of 53
TB 10 -12 99
not Like what they wamted to do. Let's at least be even handed. You are now saying that you
have came up with an alternative that you prefer, one that they and you had discussed at that
time, It seems to me that this a route you prefer to take and you are ash the Town for
permission to do this- I think that is a fairly easier discussion than having us spend $549 on
your driveway- I want to help you with your problem, but it goes bask to the same tlxix4 with
the Malopes and the creek thing. I'm not sure the Town can spend public dollars to improve
private property. If you want permission to, in the process of fixing your driveway, do this- - -
Henderson, - It's not private property, it's a road. It would never even would have
come to this with a diffierent Highway Superintendent.
Cl T Hatfield w That's not true from what I've been told.
Henderson - Because Randy would have just done the work and that-wouid have been
it, If thett hadn't worked out the Highway Department would have come back and corrected it
like they do anyplace else.
C1 T Hatfield - Then why.don't you let them do the mark they propose to do OP
Henderson 1cause he- has a..personal preference for heavy duty blacktop with bells
acid whistles- It °s a personal value judgment. It is not necessary and if he just agreed with us
to do a more minor jab we wouldn't all be in this mess right -now.
C1 T Hatfield - WeLU I guess it is z:L difference of opinion that is irreconcilable, It also
sourxds to me like it is a_ difference of opinion between one person who wants to do the jab onpe
and have it done with, and you want to sort of take steps and stages. You are dealing with a
driveway. He's dealing with 117 miles of road. You get different responsibilities and a diffe.nt
approach. He needs to try W satisfy your needs and balance that up against the needs of the
Town-
do 9ehu -Jack, will you eve her pernoissiaxx to the work in the road right of way
that she wants to do?
J Bush - Certainly,
Supv
$chug - go Jack clad
it, make it part
of the minutes, and we are done with this
conversation
until Spring when it
doesn'
l work
or
does work, or whatever.
Henderson - If it doesn't work and we paid for it, but oxen ,you'll come and do
something?
Cl Grantham = I think that if it doesn't work then we come back and have another
discussion. Jack will look at it and you'll look at it in the Spring and see what happens.
Supv Schug - If it doesn't work, then Zoxika and Jack can just get together and fix it,
Henderson - Can we have a resolution that it wouldn't be blacktop, but oil and stone?
Supv Schug - No.
Cl C Hatfield - No,
Cl Grantham - No.
Cl T Hatfield - Absolutely not.
Page 49 of 53
TB 10 -12 -99
Supv Schug - Deb, you asked about a Union update, You have one. It's in your
papers. You asked about road deeds and which ones have and which ones don't. That's a hell
of a big job. The ones that don't have _ _ ,
B Hallenbeck - The duds that we have are all together in a bask in alphabetical order.
Cl Grantham - So they get filed there when we accept a road?
B Hallenbeck - After they are recorded in the County Clerk's Office,
Supv Schug - Also I think that is what we are going to talk about in executive session.
It's up to our attorney to tell us haw that works with the oenterline_ We had that happen orx
KndUwood Drive. You asked a1-uut Highway Department work, a layout and so forth. Fart of
that comes under Section 284 of the Highway Law, wherein the Highway Supervisor tells us
what he is going to do. Remember this farm? You see it every year and ,sign it every year, He
does that farm is January or February as a best guess. He cannot spend any money until this
is signed by all of us, These projects are normally n ot given to us this time of the year, only
because you don't know what is going to happen uith the frost and the heave and whatever.
Also when these roads gome out its to give you some ides of what he going to do, because you
may have problems on a road that was never even picked out. Say your road for some reason
washes out and has to be rebuilt or paved or whatever, we would do that instead of some other
road.
Cl Grantham -
Out
can't there
be a general work plan that, barring roads washing but,
barring roads heaving,
this
is what we
plan to do?
Sul v Schug - And .lack has agreed that nn the fixture he will do that. He is not in a.
positian now to do it. He said he would do it, but we have no right to force ham to do it. If you
spent as much time as C did agonizing over the situatlon with the Highway Superintendent, you
would know there's not a whole lot we can do to an elected Highway Superintendent.
Supt/ Schug - As far as the budget issue goes, I believe that %s a negotiable item and you
have a letter in your paeket from Joe answering that. We need a motion to appoint Joyce
Gerbasi as our EMC representative. She &fled out her application and has it back to us. You
have a copy.
RESOLUTION # 187 - APPOINT JOYCE GERBASI TO
ENW OH ENTAL MANAGEMENT COUNCIL
C;1 T Hatfield offered the following resolution and aslmd for its adoption;
RESOLVED, that this Town Board appoint Joyce Gexbasi as its representative to the
Tomplo s County Envuivrmenl€ l Momagement Council.
2nfj Cl C Hatfield
Roll Call Vats C1 T Hatfield Yes
1 C. Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
Supv $chug - Approve Abstract # 1107
Page 30 of 53
TB 10-12 ^99
RESOLUTION #188 - APPROVE ABSTRACT #110
CI T Hatfield offered the followir resolution and asked far its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby. approves Abstract # 110, as audited, voucher
0704 through 730, totalling $392,270,02.
2nd C1 C Hatfield
Roll Call [tote Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl C Hatfield Yes
Cl Grantham Yes
5upv Schug - Joyce, this State Forest Master Plan', that doesn't have to be done right
away does it? Can we have some more tune to support it on , _
J Gerbasi - I'm not sure what the time kav is. What state are you at with what they
sent you?
Sulav Schug - Well, we haven't had a meeting other than this one, to even take a look at
it. I thinly we'd like the opportunity to take a look at it and either support it or recomnxend
changes or whatever.
J Gerbasi � 1 don't think it's that close.
$upv $chug - Does anybody have any other business? (No one indicated they did)
Remember the workshop is at noon on October 21, Let's move to exeekttive session to discuss
a law%Wt, Mahlon?
Atty Perkins - Omnipoint and ]-turd Road,
Supv Schug - Okay, and will we be maaag any decisions after?
Atty Perkins - I don't knour what you'll want to do
The hoard adjourned to executive session at 11.30 p.m. and returned at 1 1 =52 p.m,
Supvv $chug - During executive session we discussed Hurd Road, especially the Seeley
prRiect, and I guess our attorney advises us that we wi71 do nothing. That the Town has a right
to pave and work the roads and so fordh. I11 let
him explain it to you as he probably will do it
better than I can .or any of us here can.
Atty Perkins - Moat svaaply put that any road or any passageway that the Tawas has
worked has become
ome a Town or a public thoroughfare by user and doesn't require a deed.
Beyond that, both deeds to your property make specific reference to the rights of the public in
and to Hurd Road- Both deeds refer to survey maps which were-incorporated in those- deeds
and laded along with them in the Clerk *s Office which clearly delineate Hurd Roadr And both of
those surveys make reference to deed to the centerline of the road, except and reserve the
rights of the public which includes the Town of Dryden, to go across the road, to work it, to do
whatever is necessary. Now, if you don't like that
R Seeley - I'm not a lawyer so I'm not in a positia n. to argue, I'm just a&q%,orbit ...
Atty Perkins , I understand that and I am just trying to explain to you what I think is a
fair, objective evaluation of your gnsitionl
Page 51 of 53
TS 10 -12 -99
$upv chug - Then Robin, you can from there. That's why he's explains it instead
Of t1�.
Atty Perkins - The surveys you have clearly show the road, clearly show the centerline
of the road. I don't believe, and I don I think the Highway $uperintend ent believes, that he has
worked that road outside of any area where it has traditionally been worked_ Certainly he has
not only a Tight, but an obhgation, to maintain that road .ixr a safe, passable way for all the
people who use it. Now that is not to be unmindful of concerns regarding through traffic and
speed and signs about curves and horses and children and aU those other things that are
necessary, but I think that is a different issue than what you have approached the board with.
eelev - Can I just ask a question? I'm just curious as to why the shoulders have to
be so very, very wide?
J Bush - Which road are we talking about?
R Seeley - Hurd Road, 1 don't understand why there is like in sonae places ten feet of
gravel on the side of the road. I realize the poor Highway Department has taken a lot of heat
tonight, but I'm really just curious as to why the shoulders have to be so darn wide_
J Rush - I can't answer that. I'm not sure where you are talking about. As far as I
know it is the way it has been. I thought you were actually going to talk about Ellis Hollow
Cre,elc Road which we did recycle, basically recycled the pavem mt that was there and then
because of the lift we had to add material to the edge, ..
R Seeley - No I don't know anything about Ellis Hollow Creek. I know my own road
intimately. 0
Atty Perkins - Nell, you do have to have a place to push snow. It does have to have a
place for cars to pull over that are disabled or whatever.
$upv $chin - And sight distances.
Atty Perkins - T don't know if the shoulders are constructed that way or ended up that
way fyona user, those are traditionally reasons why shoulders exist_ Certainly there caough
roads around the Town that don't have wide enough shoulders. Try to park on Lake Road
some day,
R Seeley - Okay, but I want you guys to remember JIVa in ten years when we are talking
about traffic salmi g Hurd Road. You're gonna. say I remember robin Seeley,
Atty Perlans � Let's talk about it now. 'That Is the point_ What can be done now?
R Seeley - It was fine. It was so good the way it was.
upv $chug - we also discussed, Robin, so you understand.. A little compassion, a little
con»unication, this or that, that the tree is ixa the right of way, we'd have to cut it. Or we can
leave this one, v%-e want to take that one. There is nothing wrong with the Highway Supervisor
coming to talk to you, and all the neiWabors. We tried that on Ellis Hollow Creek Road and did
talk to a tat of the neighbors, then when we started worldrig they just went ballistic. One guy
was going to chain hianself to the tree. We newer meant it to get into that kind of a deal.
R $eeley = Can I have some speed bumps, then? People come down that hill at 50
mph. Deb was there once_ 0
Page 52 of 53
TB 10- 12 49
is J Bush - Are you asking me? The answer is no. The reason is because I am not going
to put myself in a position where someone who has never travelled that road before comes
flying down through there, hits a speed bump and gets in an accident.
Cl T Hatfield - How would you plow it with speed bumps?
J Bush - In a village or a city where you are supposed to be going slower, that is a
possibility.
Supv Schug - The toughest problem that we have Robin, so you understand, is we have
to ask the State for permission and even if it is a two lane road like yours is or was or is now,
55 mph, they really don't care.
R Seeley - The legal speed limit on my road is 55 mph?
Cl Grantham - If it's not posted, yes.
Atty Perkins - Unfortunately. I'd be happier if most of there in the Town were 45 or 35.
Supv Schug - Have you ever been down Besemer Hill Road? We tried to slow that down
and they said they can't find any reason to slow it down.
Atty Perkins - Unfortunately, its not the Town's call.
Meeting adjourned at 12:01 p.m.
Res tfully submitted,
Bambi L. Hollenbeck
Town Clerk
Page 53 of 53
James M. Kerrigan, Esq.
Kerrigan & Wallace, Esqs.
200 East Buffalo Street
PO Box 6434
Ithaca, New York 14850
Town of. Dryden
65 East Main Street
Dryden, New York 13053
September 28, 1999
Re: Hunt Hill Road, Hurd Road, & Ellis Hollow Creek Rd
Dear Mr. Kerrigan:
Bush.
q I I . I . -M
wo Q
I have your letter of September 17, 1999 to James Schug, Mahlon Perkins and Jack
Please be advised that I find no record of a deed for the above roads to the Town of
Dryden. Additionally, I find no record of SEQR review in connection with road
straightening /widening or tree removal on these roads.
If you have any questions, please feel free to call me.
Very truly yours,
Bambi L. Hollenbeck
Town Clerk
Cc. James Schug, Supv.
Mahlon R. Perkins, Esq.
Jack Bush, Dep Hwy Supt.
,
MITE ON X PERKINS, Pi C
Agorneys and Counseffors at f aw
0 West Main Street
P.O- Box 27
Dryden, New York 13053
MAHLON R. PERKINS
(1507) 849 1 i 1
September 22, 1999
James M. Kerrigan, Esq,
Kerrigan & Wallace
200 East 2uffalo street
P.D. Box 6434
Ithaca, New York 14851 -5434
Dear Jim :
I have referred your letter of September 17, 1999 to the Town Clerk
who is the Records Access officer under the Freedom of Information
Lair. She will be in touch with you with respect to your request
for copies of documents,
very truly yours,
Mahlon R. Perkins
MRP/ Id
pc: Bambi L. Hollenbeck, Town Clerk (w /Kerrigan letter)
James F. Schug, Town Supervisor
JaQk Hush, Deputy Highway Superintendent
t
a.
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1
.4 e y F 1 1 1yti 1
KERRIGAN & WALLACE
Attorneys al Lmv
200 East Buffalo Street
P. O. Box 6434
Ithaca, New York 14851
607-272-1400
JAMES M. KERRIGAIV
RICHARD JV. WALLACE
Mr. James Shug
Dryden Town Supervisor
65 E. Main Street
Dryden, New York 13053
Mahlon Perkins, Esq.
Dryden Town Attorney
P.O. Box 27
Dryden, New York 13053
Mr. Jack Bush
Dryden Town Highway Department
61 E. Main Street
Dryden, New York 13053
Dear Jim, Mahlon and Mr. Bush:
° , sEa
2 ;: lass D�
MAHLON R. PERKINS, PC,
F#AX.• 607 - 272 -0375
EMAIL: HERRJGW 9 LL6M oL CU.d1
September 17, 1999
I have been retained by residents in the Hunt Hill Road, Hurd Road and Ellis
Hollow Creek Road in regard to their concerns for the widening of the respective roads
upon which their properties abut.
I have reviewed a number of abstracts of title, going back about 115 years, and
have preliminarily reviewed some deed book indices at the County Clerk's Office to
earlier dates, and find no record of any deeds to any of the three mentioned road ways.
That would suggest to me that the rights of the Town to these three roadways have been
acquired by prescriptive easement, and that therefore the Town's right to use these roads
is limited to whatever use and occupancy has been acquired over the past ten or more
years.
From time to time, however, I acknowledge that occasionally municipal road deeds
Town of Dryden
40 September 17, 1999
Page 2
have not been recorded, and my preliminary search of deed records at the clerk's office is
admittedly not complete at this point. In the event the Town has records and indices or
any other documentation suggesting that they have deeded rights to these roads, I would
appreciate it very much if you could send me copies of any deeds or records of any
notations as to County Clerk liber and page numbers, so that I might be able to review
them and advise your constituents and adjoining landowners accordingly.
In addition, I would suggest that road straightening/widening and tree removal
projects do require some level of review tinder SEQR. While I recognize there is a
potential for some debate as to the level of that review, I trust we all agree that review by
a Iead agency is required. My clients, who tried to follow this issue from time to time
with the Town Board, suggest to me that they are not aware of any notices of review or
action. In the event the Town or any department of the Town has made any such review,
I would appreciate it if you could send to me copies of any such materials, minutes,
assessments, declarations or whatever from the Town records.
Although I suspect it is not necessary, I guess I am supposed to indicate that this
request for information and records of the Town is made under the Freedom of
Information Law, and 1 would be happy to reimburse the Town for any reasonable
expenses in reproducing requested information pursuant to that law.
I also trust and hope that all three of you would be willing to commit to giving
your constituents, through me, reasonable notice of any road widening or tree removal
projects in the area that I am writing about, and that we can continue to discuss all
affected parties' reasonable concerns cooperatively.
JMK: ces
cc: Clients
Very
James M.
G`
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Tolwn Board Meeting
October 12, 1999
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