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Home My WebLink About1999-08-26TB 8 -26 -99 TOWN OF DRYDEN ® TOWN BOARD MEETING AUGUST 26, 1999 Supv Schug opened the meeting at 8:00 p.m. Members and guests participated in a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance. Roll call by Town Clerk Bambi L. Hollenbeck proved the following in attendance: Cl Beck, Cl T Hatfield, Cl C Hatfield, Cl Grantham, Supv Schug, Attorney Perkins. Supv Schug - In yesterday's Ithaca Journal, the 251h, it said Varna seeks residents to voice concerns about an apartment complex. I don't know where the Journal gets their information, but its wrong. Plenty of people are here from Varna. Everybody knows what we are doing and what we have done. The State had nothing to do with what happened. It was this Town Board who listened to the people, found a positive dec, and that is why we are here today. We weren't forced to do anything. We did it because that is the right thing to do after listening to our people. I don't know who's giving these people the scoop, but it's kind of scary if you ask me. Erica Evans - Jim, it's the same people that report meetings with stuff that never even was said. It's the Journal, and you should know better than to believe what you read in the Journal. Supv Schug - When we go through the scope, we don't want people just to talk for the sake of talking. We want to make some sense out of what we are doing and what we are asking 10 Lucentes and their attorneys and engineers to do to try and mitigate the problems that we found in our Part Three of the SEQR that the Town Board did. We will have a time period that we will allow for written comments for this scoping session before the final scope is done. I would like to set that time for September 27. We are obligated under a time period to finish the final written scope. It is due October 25. As far as the written comments, I gave Bambi a copy of the letter from Mr. Weinstein concerning what we had done and that should be part of the public record. What he did when he went through his letter was cover pretty much what we have already put in the scope and what we want covered and corrected. That will be part of the record (copy provided to project sponsor). You all are familiar with the format we use. If you are going to say something, stand up and give your name and address clearly, so that we have good comments and a good record. Atty Perkins - I would like to make sure that we are all clear about what the purpose of this session is tonight. Scoping, and the primary goal of scoping, is to focus the environmental impact statement on the potentially significant adverse impacts and is to weed out consideration of those impacts which are irrelevant or insignificant. The idea is to reach a consensus in the final written scope, which will be provided by the Town Board, of what is to be addressed in the draft environmental impact statement. The project sponsor gets the first crack at the draft scope and the draft scope has to include certain items which are identified in the regulations. After we have the draft scope from the project sponsor, involved agencies have an opportunity to provide written comments reflecting their concerns, their jurisdiction and information needs that should be addressed in the scope and which will then serve as the basis for what is going to be found in the draft environmental impact statement. Scopmg requires that there be an opportunity for public participation and that is what this is tonight, the first public meeting on the scope. By keeping a comment period open, the public will have an ' opportunity to comment for the next thirty days or so on what the project sponsor comes up with as its draft scope and what you hear this evening. From all of that then the Town Board Page 1 of 34 • N Q 6 TB 8 -26 -99 has the obligation to put: together the final written scope and that will be the basis for the draft environmental impact statement which is the responsibility of the project sponsor. There are additional opportunities for public comment after the receipt of the draft environmental impact statement, but I think what is important is that we stay focused on the impacts which have been identified as potentially significant. If you have something to say it would be appropriate to limit it to those and as a matter of practice, it doesn't do a lot of good just to repeat what other people have said. If you are in agreement, simply indicate that. The other thing which carries as much weight or more then your comments are your written comments because we can make them part of the record. It is easy then to go back and see exactly what your concerns were and make sure that they have either been addressed in the final written scope or at least that they are discussed and determined not to be part of it. I encourage you during the comment period following the session tonight to take that opportunity, put your comments in writing. They carry as much weight, if not more, than what is said here tonight. The project sponsor has the first crack at the draft scope. John Stevens - I think that what we want to do is because of the time constraints that we have been operating under, we want to give this to the Board as a presentation with an opportunity by the Board to ask questions at any point during a particular portion of the program. From our notes and from what we have recently received, we believe the scope is limited to discussions of density, erosion, drainage, buffering or landscaping, and traffic. Let me address the density right now. What has been talked about is the 1968 study in which the hamlet of Varna is described as having ideally 6 to 10 people per acre. What has been discussed is the number of people that are going to be put in these apartment buildings per acre, when what we should be looking at is the density of Varna in general. With this project the Varna RC, which is approximately 320 acres, would be about 2.19 people per acre. This increase would be with the use of only 0.04% of the available acreage in Varna. The density in building in this way relieves the Town of an exorbitant number of services. To put the same number of people in single family dwellings on half acre lots would require an additional 7.6 , miles of Town road. It would require services of about four times what this particular area is going to require and they would be Town roads. This will be a road owned by Lucente. The number of units in this project is designed with an eye toward the minimum number of units in which institutional financing can be obtained. This project can not be done without institutional financing. So the density generally with the '68 study and with this keeps Varna well below what the general land plan was for 1968. In other words what we are saying is you shouldn't look at it on a per acre basis. You should look at it as Varna generally for to develop it at 6 to 10 per acre on every single acre doesn't make sense. With that, let me turn this over with respect to erosion to Bob Harrier. He has handouts and what we are going to do is have him explain the handout and what he is doing and please interrupt him and ask questions. Bob Harner - What I have given you is some guidelines for erosion and sediment control. These are standard practices that are used today. DOT uses them, DEC, construction, etc. It will answer any questions that. you'll have on erosion and sediment control. What I want to point out is that there are things you can do to limit the amount of erosion that happens on a site. Certainly you can leave as much vegetation in place as possible. You can construct swales, cesspools, utilize the existing drainage system, the existing pond, and so forth. Certainly you can seed, try to get the vegetation to grow as soon as possible. In the packet of information I 've given you, we use hay bales all the time. We certainly on steep slopes can add more hay bales to slow down the flow and contain the sediments as they run down. You 've all seen silt fences. That is very standard and they are placed at the downstream side where the water would flow. Again, very standard practice. Also there are certain things you can do on slopes. You can bench it in and cut it in and there are proper methods used to stabilize slopes and so forth. There are all kinds of guidelines in here. These are pretty much again standard practices that are used every day in construction. Toward the end of that document I have also included a SPEDES permit. You can review that f Page 2 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 so that you are assured that before, during and after construction we are going to contain the sediments, erosion and so forth. (Copies were distributed to the Board only. Copies will be available for the public to view at the Town Hall.) The next thing I am going to hand out is a drainage plan. What I am trying to do is illustrate here the flow patterns, or the drainage patterns, as they exist today. The large area that you see here is basically the amount of area that flows to that pond as it exists today, approximately 4.5 acres. The rest of the water pretty much flows toward 366, down in this low spot, and most likely floods these basements. A large amount of the area is just allowed to flow toward 366 and this is what exists today. If you turn the sheet, what I've drawn is a diagram of what we are proposing as a drainage plan. The dark heavy line again represents the amount of water that is going to flow to the pond. It is pretty clear to me that if you have an elevation of a pond at 963 feet above sea level and you've got an elevation up here of 975 and so forth, it wouldn't be too hard to grade this road to put in a swale, a ditch, a pipe to just convey the water to the pond where it can be treated and the release of the water can be at a controlled rate. That is what I want to stress very strongly. Also what we are proposing here is to rebuild this pond embankment. Iire got a note there that says the embankment will be reconstructed to meet or exceed DEC dam permit requirements. Also, we can't get all the water in the pond obviously because it slopes toward the road here so we are proposing to put the water into the existing state storm sewer system for our entrance at 366. I'll get into that in a blow up detail in a moment. Again, just to recap here, currently about one -third of the area flows to the pond as it is today, 4.5 acres. When we are done, two-thirds is going to flow to the pond where it can be treated, controlled and released in a proper manner. I calculated 9.1 acres. Again, if you've got an elevation here that is lower with a minor amount of grading you can get the water into the pond. Things are built at slopes all the time, look at Cornell. It's not too hard to build on a slope. We've got models and tools that we use to try to minimize the amount of earth that well have to disturb. Cl C Hatfield - This water here - is that going to be a diversion ditch so that it will come around and exit up here so none of it will go into those backyards. B Harner - Along Route 366 there is an existing ditch. The majority of the storm water coming off the hill is on this side of the road, the east side of the road and crosses through a culvert and goes into a ditch here, at which point it gets to the bottom of the hill and it does get back into the fall creek system. So a lot of this is already going ... Supv Schug - That's not 366. What you pointed at is Mt. Pleasant, B Harner - Right, he was asking about this area here. Cl C Hatfield - Not out here. Where this arrow says it is going down. Is this all going to be routed one way, or just let drain into the ... B Harner - Basically, that steep slope exists today. So that will exist when we're done. Cl C Hatfield - And what runs down there is going to run same as it: always ran. B Harner - Right, if you look at this picture, right now a larger area is allowed to run down there and if you meet the law of the SPEDES basically we need to contain the increased water that we generate from site. So we are going to have a net decrease going down to this area. Page 3 of 34 TS 8 -26 -99 J Stevens - Bob, what's going to happen when you are done is any water that accumulates on the embankment is going to run where it runs now. • B Hamer - Correct. J Stevens - But anything above, within the project area, is going to run toward the pond and down to the road, 366. Atty Perkins - Previously, residents living along Route 366 have told the Board that they have experienced flooding in their basements which didn't occur prior to this area being disturbed up there. What have you done to address those concerns? B Hamer - Basically what we are proposing is a revised drainage plan to direct more of the water in a controlled manner. This is what we are saying. We are going to lessen the amount of water that is going to these residences and well meet the letter of the law by doing that. Atty Perkins - What happens if these basements continue to flood? B Hamer - Currently we have a low spot in here. It has existed for I don't know how many years. We 've got a road that is at a higher elevation and we've got an area here that is higher. Atty Perkins - What I heard these people say was that before this dam was worked on and before this area was disturbed up there, they didn't have these problems. B Harper - Right. What had happened is they changed the drainage or flow patterns of this water. A lot of this water probably went right through this natural channel and they didn't • have that problem. When they started disturbing this area they immediately changed the flow or the drainage of this area. So they allowed a lot of the water to go to these people's basements. What. I'm going to do is correct that by having a cut off area and slowing the water down and directing it around. area? Atty Stevens - How much of that water are you re- directing, generally? For that entire B Harper - 36 cubic feet per second. Atty Perkins - Is it your opinion that the reason these people experienced the flooding in their basements was because of this uncontrolled disturbance of the slope above them? B Hamer - From the best knowledge that I have, yes. Because they changed the natural course of this water shed. The water clearly enters the site here and it used to come out and divert. Now they've constructed the pond. They've put fill. TheyVe regraded this and they are allowing a lot of water to go there. Atty Perkins - Have you compared older topographic maps with the existing one to confirm that statement? B Harper - The oldest one I have is 1949 and I did look at that.. They still show a depressed area here. I don't know what year the pond was built, but certainly I have looked at the contours and we have these all on disk and CD and I can zoom in and zoom out. If you look at these on a 1 to 24,000 scale you can barely see them. But I have the capability of looking at these on disk and yes, I have verified these areas and looked at the changes and you can clearly see that there were some changes in the contours for this piece of property. Page 4 of 34 TB x-2&99 ® Atty Perkins - So would it be reasonable to conclude that whoever attempted to build this pond should be responsible for the conditions which exist downslope from these people right now? B Hamer - I can't answer that. Certainly ... Atty Perkins - But it's your opinion that that's what is causing the downslope problem. B Hamer - That is correct. All of the changes that have happened have changed the drainage patterns to these people's backyards. Yes, that's my opinion. The next thing I'd like to address is traffic. (Handout distributed) What I have given you here is basically some details for the intersections, entrances to the site. What you are looking at is a blowup of the Mt Pleasant Road driveway to the site. I'm showing some of the improvements that we intend to make at this intersection. You can see our road. We are going to put in a 24' wide road, driveway to the site, which is currently larger than Mt Pleasant Road. We are going to do some grading work here in the ditch and try to lessen that slope. We are going to have a road cut and clear some vegetation. I spoke to Jack Bush and Dave Putnam to again touch base with them. I've met them out in the field as well. Their primary concerns are safety of this intersection, as well as drainage. We are trying to address these here by showing some proposed contours by bringing up the elevation of the driveway to maximize the site distance and some clearing and so forth at this intersection. If you turn the sheet, this is the one that has a lot of information on it. This is the intersection at Route 366. If I can just point out we are putting in a 24' driveway. Currently there is a 22' road for Route 366. As you can see, well have a road cut to put the entrance in. We are also showing a sidewalk coming down on the east side of the property. I was able to move the entrance over because it was a concern how close we were to the house. We are now close to eight feet away from the house there. Also, I'd like to discuss drainage and how we're going to handle the drainage which has to flow toward 366 for our driveway. Atty Perkins - Excuse me. You said you're eight feet from the house. B Harper - I said approximately eight feet. Atty Perkins - Right. That's house 957A. B Hamer - That's correct. Atty Perkins - Who is the owner of that? B Hamer - I believe Ted Marchell. It's no different than a residential street where you have a curb, grassed area, sidewalk and then the house. Cl C Hatfield - Who owns 959A? B Harper - I'd have to check the survey map. Cl C Hatfield - Does Ted own that also? Atty Perkins - 959A? B Hamer - It's on the survey map. I have it here if you would like to know. S Lucente - Ted owns 959. Page 5 of 34 TB 8 -26-99 Cl C Hatfield - And 957. • Supv Schug - 953 is Molly's house, right? B Harper - Correct. Atty Perkins - So he owns both of those, 957 and 959? S Lucente - That's correct. B Harper - It's John Marchell, the listed owner on the deed. Cl C Hatfield - That's Ted's dad. Supv Schug - Where are the apartments? Apartments next to the two houses? S Lucente - Yeah, the old Marchell Monuments. B Harper - I guess I'd like to discuss .chat we are going to do with the drainage. What we are proposing to do as you come off the hill from the site, we are going to have a ditch on either side of the road. What well do is convey the water into a catch basin and collect it by a series of catch basins and pipes. 1 have a cross section which will show it a little bit more clearly. It's the third page. Basically the water will come off the hill in a ditch at which point it will collect to a catch basin. And currently there is an existing storm system that's under utilized by the State. What I'm proposing to do is tie in this 15" corrugated steel pipe at our entrance to convey the water, to collect the water and have it go into the pipes and go on its way to Fall Creek. I talked to the resident engineer, Gordon Reimels. I also talked to Bill Egloff • who is in the regional office in Syracuse. I discussed this with them and basically, what they told me is that these catch basins that are existing on 366 only catch the water off the road. You have a road that is high here, it dips down, and then it goes back up. So this system is under utilized and all um have to do is in the .work permit show the detail, show how we are going to build it and we can tie into this, and then the water goes off on its way. Cl T Hatfield - Before you leave that area. Before you reported and we discussed that the road, your proposed driveway, was within five feet I think of Molly's front porch. You ve moved that. How far away is it now? B Hamer - It think it was 25' before. Right now the edge of our road, this is to scale - 1 inch to 20 feet. If you scale to her porch, it's 30' from the point of her porch to the road. The other house, we're 78 ", approximately 8 feet. On the other scale drawing it was hard to tell. I think we made the statement that it was 25' or so, but in fact with this detailed survey that was done just recently, it is 30'. And again on the last page, I am just showing you some detail that we are going to provide when we go for the highway work permit. Typical road sections, profile, and so forth. And the last thing 1 have for you is a highway work permit.. I have included the entire package of the permit, not just the application. That way you can read what. is required and see everything that is necessary to obtain this permit. There are lots of requirements that the State has. The State has very vigorous requirements on the materials, the construction procedures, the maintenance and protection of traffic. Again, I have included this for your information and use, and I've also filled out the application here. Atty Perkins - I think it should be clear that all this is is an application.. Page 6of34 TB 8 -26 -99 ® B Harper - That's correct, and it will encompass the drawings that you see there to obtain this permit. Cl Beck - Back to the drainage on the highway. How far up the road does the water come from in order to go down into these catch basins? My concern is that a ISO" storm system is not very big. B Hamer - If you'll look on this sheet here, the area we are tallying about is relatively small. We did run some numbers on this. Again, this dark heavy line represents the flow that is going to go to the pond. If you look at the area from the road down, that is what is going to go there. What you can do is look at the rainfall intensity for a 100 year storm, which is about 4 V an hour for this area. From that you size your ditches, your pipe and so forth. But certainly the DOT is going to look at this very closely and as part of the highway work permit they are going to want that exact question answered. Cl Beck - How many feet is it from the edge of the property here down to 366, do you have that dimension on here? B Harper - It's not on there, but if you look the survey indicates it here. 312' So it is a relatively small area if you picture a large parking lot. That is going to generate a lot more water because it can't go anywhere. You've got to control it and direct it to where it needs to go. So as far as the materials that I have, that's everything. Henry, you've got a copy of everything there? ZO Slater - I have almost two full sets. 0 B Hamer -1 can provide you more if you need it. ZO Slater - I'm missing a second set of C 1 C2, Site Plan. I can make a copy, it's not a problem. B Harper - So if you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer them for you. Cl C Hatfield - What are your intentions on the pond? Are going to line that pond and make sure nothing runs out the bottom of it? B Harner - I think some more geotechnical work has to be done before we can make that determination. Right now it looks like the flow patterns have changed causing the problem. I'm not a geotechnical engineer, so I can't speak on the pond. Certainly the pond is designed to mitigate the stormwater increase that we are going to generate from site because we obviously have roofs and impervious surfaces. Cl C Hatfield - But if that pond was dug and you hit a sand bar in the bottom or a gravel streak that could leak and ... B Harper - Certainly we'd have to line the pond. In fact we are proposing a wet pond so we want to make sure that it stays wet. So certainly lining the pond is done easily today with all these synthetic liners and so forth. Cl T Hatfield - So youll be doing some geotechnical engineering work to determine if the pond ... 0 B Harper - We have a person on board. Page 7 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 Cl T Hatfield - That is part of your proposal. B Hamer - Definitely. We can't build a pond embankment without geotechnical advice. • Cl T Hatfield - That is part of the DEC permit process. B Hamer - That's correct, and it will also tic into the SPEDES permit. J Stevens - The geotechnical study is part of the record. I think it is here. Cl C Hatfield - Going back to this elevation line around here, it runs level across behind there. It would just seem like it would make good sense on the developer's part to make a diversion ditch. You could move half the water that way and half the water this way and that would ensure those houses more protection, I think. B Hamer - For what little bit it would take to put a swale in... Cl C Hatfield - It's all on the same line. It wouldn't take a bulldozer a day's work to make that work. B Hamer - Certainly we could look into that. We'd have to get an easement granted from all those.,. Cl C Hatfield - No, it's on your property. You wouldn't have to get on those people. These elevation lines, if you follow that right around, it's all right... B Hamer - See those are five foot interval contours, so if I were to turn onto the other layer you'll see that that is a very steep slope at that point. It would be real hard to construct a swale at that point. 0 Cl C Hatfield - You wouldn't be constructing a swale, you'd just be building a ditch so that the water could run both ways instead of down on the properties. B Hamer - Right now we are on a slope and it would be somewhat difficult to build a... Cl C Hatfield - No it wouldn't. You get the right man, he could build it in no time flat. B Harper - Certainly well take that into consideration. Cl C Hatfield - That would be the simplest part of the whole project as far as I'm concerned. Cl Grantham - Maybe it's to come, but I haven't heard any mention of any storm water treatment and in fact the runoff on the road down to 365 is just being taken straight into the storm sewer system which goes straight into fall Creek. You are still not talking about treatment in the detention pond. B Hamer - As far as treatment of storm water, typically on the road surfaces you don't treat stormwater. There is some information in that erosion plan packet that I gave you that you can look at. As far as treatment on site, we have a detention pond so that the water flows into the pond, it is going to immediately slow down and it will act as a settling basin before it goes out. If you have a concentrated flow that goes through a channel and its got sediments with it, and it continued to go obviously it would be able to go. But if you have a big pond the sediments will disburse. It takes a long time for that water to move to get to the outlet point, so that's where you would get. it. Again, during construction is probably your biggest concern I'aage 8 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 because you are going to be disturbing earth- 'That's all addressed in that eresion plan. After is things are butt, you Ive got grassed areas. You shouldnYt have a lot of contaminated storm water. Cl Grantham - If it is running g across pavement you are going to have contaminants in the storm water - -- B Harner - Right. 1 Grandiam - and it goes directly into a. drin]flng water supply. B Harner 4 If that wt!re the case, we'd have to treat every road in the County that drains to that area 1 Grantham T Well, we probably should be. B Darner - Certainly, they have combination storm and sanit UT sewers and a lot of cities do treat storm water through their treatment plants, I don't know of any requirement that we arc under to treat storm water as it comes off a road surface, but certainly on site acre are going to have some treatment with the retention pond and there are measures and Mitigation t i p that we can do during construction to lime the amount of sediment that is going to leave. All that has been provided. J Stevens - What percentage of the water are you going to intercept that enters the property nova. B Hamer - As I mentioned several times in the past (project plan displayed) were got a 70 acre watershed or drainage area that flows through this site. The only point it can enter is right here at this creek. So everything comes dawn aria it gets concentrated at this point. We are not required to treat everyone else's storm water. We are required to treat, I mean mitigate, the amount of flow coming off our site We are required through the SPEDES permit to mitigate our stoma water. 'What we are proposing to do is, the water will enter the site at this point. Before it gets to the ditch well insert a manhole and well have a pipe that will come around and it will discharge approximately M/h of the water i r to this creek where it currently goes today, The other '20°16 will go into the pond and will be retained. This will help maintain a, wet pond axid will also help reduce the amount of storm water that is coming off of this hill. There are a couple of reasons that we are doing that. One, if we had a large storm and all this water goes through the pond, the pored immediately floods and it just bypassesr o what we would like to do is try to hold on the site the additional water that weU generate from the roads and the impervious surface. We don't want to discharge any more wader than what exists today. Certainly we are going to generate more storms water that will be held in this pond. Certainly if you have a large amount of water you can pick up sediments and it can continue on, whereas if you have a properly rived pored you can actually have the sediments settle. Atty Perkins - So in other words there is o ri to have to be available capacity in this pond to handle a certain level of storm, and the runoff from the impervious surfaces that you I ntend to divert toward the pond- 13 Harrier - That's correct. Atty Perkins - Now are going to arrive at how much capacity you are going to need? 13 Harper - What we did early on is a storm water run off calculation, Again, it is very detailed, very technical, but I summarized everything in a statement krere to try to make it as clear as possible in a design summary - Again, this is stamdard methods that have been used. Page 9 of 34 TS 5 -26-99 They have been used for a long, long time. What we dry is go through and we model the watershed and we look at how much water is ooming into the site. We look at how much water is flowing from the site and we also 2 d up the impervious areas and figure out hDw much more storm water we axe going to increase, Then what we can do is size the pored to hold that storm water to give you equal or less than what exists today. There is a detention pond analyc;is which you have in here and again, it talks about the areas, the elevation, it plots out graphs for you showing what is going to happen during the pear storm event, and what area of a pond you need, and tons of things that are going t.n bf4 scrutinized and looked at very closer by the DEC because we cannot have more storm water leaving this site than what c3dsts today. And everyone will agree that if you have an impervious surface you are going to have more storm outer. And that's how we're going to use the pond and we're going to bypass it to mitigate that. CI Beck - We 've been provided with a couple of conflicting opinions -regarding the amount of storm water being generated and specifically sno pack melt in times of rain- Have you attempted to look at those other points of view and see if there I'S some validity there and provide us with some assurances that that's a valid number? B Harner - I have had. this reviewed a third time by our senior partner, the founder of OUT Firm. He stands by it as much as I do and the only thing I can offer is that we do these all the tome. The DEC reviews theta. They go through therm very thoroughly u*ith a fine toothed comb, so my assurance and your assuranoe is going to be that DEC is going to go through it thoroughly. They are gumg to run their own models, they are goirig to look at it independently. They are not going to take this and say OX, that's it. They are going to run their own models and generate similar reports such as this. Atty Perldns - Did you do a calculation as to what the rate of runoff from the site now is in the existing ditch? 0 B Hamer - Well, wt� know what's leaving the site, so, to answer your question, yes. Atty Perkins - And hove many cubic feet per second is that? H Harner -ale are looking at 125 cubic feet per second Atty Perkins - That's what currently leaves the site? B Harmer - For a 100 year storm event. That's the 1a, gest stvrza that we are rewired to look at. The Town requires dw we look at a 25 year storm event, but DEC supercedes that and they say 100 year storfn event. Atty Perkins , $o far a 1.00 year storm event then, are you sayi ng that this plan provides that that rate of discharge will not exceed that 100 year storm evey"t? B darner - This plan for our site yes, does not exceed the 100 year storm event. The way we were able to do that was by diverti179 thus, uslrsg the pared to mitigate, to control how much water flows out of this, I didn't have tire, but I was going to brim in a detail and picture of a standard outlet structure to try to give you a better fee n . for how these work so we can better visualize it. But certainly wish a concrete structure, pipe, and so forth and looking at the size and the slope of the pipe, you can easily control how much water can leave a pipe based on inlet control, outlet control, and you size them. We do it everyday. It's pretty much routine for what I do, J Stevens - What percentage of the current water that hits tkkat site is going tv be diverted by this project? 0 Pap 10cf34 TB 8 -26-99 • B Harper - 809/6,209/o will remain. Supv Schug - Are you planning to address that 80% of the water that is coming down and the effects of the stream that is down below it? Are you going to take care of the water from that site to the creek, Fall Creek? B Harper - We did contact DEC and the Corps of Engineers and looked at cleaning out this ditch. We have looked into that. I don't know if it has been resolved, whether Lucente is willing to clean the ditch from this point out. But in order to meet the SPEDES requirement and the letter by the law, if you will, we are only required to contain what is on site. He is not required to clean this ditch from this point on. We have looked into it, but again I can't speak for Mr. Lucente if he is willing to clean the ditch from this point on. But we have looked into it. We have contacted the DEC and the Corps of Engineers. I sent them a USDS map. I sent them calculations, photographs, and what we are proposing to do. Whenever you say well I just want to clean out a ditch, it sounds simple, but the Corps of Engineers regulates every ditch that there is. I work with the Corps regularly. I could go into horror stories about it.. Atty Perkins - What good does this elaborate plan do if all of a sudden when you get off site the ditch isn't capable of handling it, it hasn't been maintained properly or isn't ready to receive it? B Hamer - Again it is a private owned... Atty Perkins - I understand that, but answer my question. 0 S Lucente - I can speak. I've met with several of the landowners and we've agreed to go in and modify the capacity of the stream so that in the event of the 100 year storm it will have capacity to deal with the flow without overflowing. Atiy Perkins - So in other words you are willing to make sure that the stream is capable of handling this after this elaborate plan? S Lucente - Yes. Supv Schug - And maintain it? S Lucente - Yes. B Harper - One other thing that I'd like to point out. The stream is easy. You can widen it and do things and change the slope to increase the flow, but we have some culverts that it passes. Just to let you know, I've checked the inverts of the culverts, the size of the culverts and was in fact trying to see if we could in fact pass this amount of water and in most cases we can. There may be one instance a need to take some better field measurements to determine), but again we 've looked into it. I 've walked it, I've taken photographs, I 've been out to the site. Certainly when it comes by the Varna Inn it goes to the ditch and then down the road and then it crosses. I 've looked at all that and it is plenty big enough. Atty Perkins - How does this, or Mr. Lucente's offer to work in the ditch here, tie in with the grant. Wasn't there a grant made to the owner of the motel to do some work? Supv Schug - Yes. B Harper - I'm not aware of the grant. What is that? Page 11 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 Supv Schug - $3,000 from the County. Chens have to put up $3,000 and they are looking to the Town to put up another $3,000. 18 B Harner - To do what? Supv Schug - The corner of their motel is on the edge of that creek and it is starting to cave in. They are afraid if the water keeps running the way it has been, it is going to take that part of their motel out. The trailer park owner also has the same question on his edge of the property and I know he would be willing to have you make sure that the water gets down to the road and away from his trailers. S Lucente - We met with him and pretty much went through the detail of the entire thing that we would do near his property. We didn't speak to Mr. Chen. I thought that all that was Mr. Ray's property. M Case - Mr. Lecoq has problems with the water there too. It comes down between his property and he had to do a lot: of work there and it cost him a lot of money. Supv Schug - I'm sure he'll talk with Mr. Lecoq, too. Atty Perkins - Can you show me that property on the map? B Hamer - Is that along Route 366? Supv Schug - No, it sits back. B Harner - Then it probably won't be shown on this survey map then. Lucente - Right before it goes into where the trailer park is. • Supv Schug - So you have addressed or will address formally the rebuilding and the maintenance of the creek and take the runoff water. Now you are taking responsibility for the water that is coming from somebody else's property because 800% is going into that creek also. Right, Steve? S Lucente - I think what I would be willing to do would be to go by whatever the engineers say is the 100 year event and bring and maintain that stream to that level because I can't control people's maintenance on their own properties. If they are not maintaini g their own drainage systems, I don't see how someone else can be held responsible. Atty Perkins - Steve, just so that I'm clear on this. Initially you are saying though that you would be willing to get that stream to a point where it is prepared to accept discharge from a 100 year event. S Lucente - Yes. Debbie Lecoq - You guys didn't contact us at all? S Lucente - Is Art here? D Lecoq - He's not here at all. $ Lucente - We ran into him. He was out on the lawn and we talked to him. It was last Fall and we had quite a conversation. 0 Page 12 of 34 TB &2b -99 D Leeoq - Oh, well you can contact us again. S Lucente - You can be sure we will. D Lecoq - That is a big problem already. The creek barely holds the water there is now and we did a lot of work just in our part. Cl Beck - Is there any chance upstream of putting in coffer systems that would mitigate some of that flow. I have no idea what's involved. Obviously its on somebody else's property. B Harper - Mainly its all Cornell land. Cl Beck - I guess I'm thinking about downstream from your property, but before it gets down to these. Is there any room to put in a small coffer system that would reduce the volume and velocity of that stream. B Harper - It being a steep slope it would certainly be hard. Currently we are going to have to look at this point out to Fall Creek. Cl Beck - Lots of times just making a ditch deeper and wider could make the problem worse. It may help somebody's problem, but then maybe you can't get it through the culvert and it takes out a road downstream or somebody else's property on the next bend, or something like that and its worse. B Hamer - Certainly if you get a flood like 72 or 73 whenever it was. You can't design these things. You're got to head for the hills and I hope people understand that. We can do what we can to mitigate here. We can do our best to mitigate these ditches and make sure there is proper suing and slope on the ditch, and the size of the channel, that it is lined properly, certainly. A 70 acre watershed is a lot of water that comes down through the site, so I just want to make it clear that we'll look at mitigating that and do the best we can with it. J Stevens - What I'm tying to do is figure out water that normally would be heading toward the peoples' houses on 366 is going to be diverted by a portion of that, correct? How much of that is going to be diverted? As far as area. B Harper - There are currently 4.5 acres that flows to this pond, or basically 1 / 3 as it exists today. One -third of the area flows to the pond. When we build these roads on 2/3 or 9 acres approximately is going to flow to this pond. So a substantial amount will go through this pond and I feel that will alleviate a lot of these problems. And certainly I have noted and will take into consideration your point on the slope, the possibility of diverting more of that water. But certainly if you could see this in a 3 -1) model, you're got a site that is up here, you're got a steep slope, you've got a flat area and then it comes back up for the road so they are sitting in a pool. No matter what you do if you get a heavy storm, even if this didn't exist, you are still going to get water that will collect and it has no place to go. The way the storm system was designed for the State, they only designed to take the water off the road. They don't like to take additional storm water unless there is no other place to put it. Unfortunately, what they did is put it in here at a point where it is higher than this area so it is not going to much affect anything in this area here. When we came through this road and I looked at the elevations, certainly we can correct it, pipe it and then it goes in and on its way. Again, I can give you the names and numbers of the people I talked to about that. Again, they are going to want to see our calculations and so forth showing that the system can handle it, seeing how much exists today, what we are increasing and so forth. Similar to the study that you see here. ® Sugv Schug - You've got 70 acres up above that is going through one little channel and coming down on the site, bringing all that water down that way. Page 13 of 34 TS 8 -26-99 B Harper - Correct. • Supv Schug - Why can't that channel be plugged and run that water up to Mt. Pleasant, across the two roads that way. and then down to the creek? Grade or elevation or what? B Hamer - Depth is the biggest thing because it doesn't actually form a channel or a creek until it gets to this point. It just kind of V's up and one option that you could do is channel it here and around, but that is not going to help you. The only other option is that you could pump it to there, which would probably not be ... Cl C Hatfield - According to this elevation line it is quite a straight line along the railroad. It might be able to be diverted that way. B Harper - Right. We can look at the elevation here and see if that is in fact possible. D Putnam - As far as bring the water down Mt Pleasant Road, it won't take much more water, it's pretty full as it is. They cross under 366 there. B Harper - I believe it is a 36" pipe there at that point. D Putnam - 30" at the intersection. Cl C Hatfield - This is quite a lot of water coming down each side. Cl Beck - You think that without putting an additional culvert size under 366 you couldn't really divert any of that upslope water in that direction? Cl C Hatfield - Might not be legal anyway to change the flow of the stream, if they call it • a stream. It was pretty dry the day I was there. Cl Beck -This summer hasn't presented many drainage challenges. Supv Schug - Does anybody have anything else? D Sutton - The other impact to consider was landscape and there seem to be one major concern. One is how this thing will appear from Route 366 or Mt Pleasant. What we will do is we'll shoot some sight lines. I didn't do it for this meeting because I want to go in and spot actual vegetation in addition to what we have. The intent is to keep as much of the natural vegetation that exists there. So well shoot those. The other two issues arc one, coming in the entrance from 366 affecting this house here. The intent is to build a fence, put in evergreens, and currently, there is a shared road into this home. It comes up here and turns in. What Steve is proposing to do is build a driveway into that. garage. Supv Schug - Off of your road? D Sutton - Yes, right. Supv Schug - Whose garage is that? Is that Molly's? D Sutton - Yes. M Case - Mine? D Sutton - The driveway that goes in there that both of you have? Page 14 of 34 TB 8- 26-99 ® M Case - Yes. D Sutton - What Steve is proposing is to build a driveway in to your garage off of this road when it gets built. M Case - I don't think so. S Lucente - Well, it's up to you. D Sutton - It's a proposal. It's a thought. Because currently it is a shared driveway. And a fence and evergreens. The other issue in landscape was some kind of buffering between the trail that Steve is going to give to the town, the right of way to build the trail, and well provide something along here. These yellow dots are a diagram of where the trail goes, but also we are proposing to build a trail through here down along the pond and connect down here at the VCA. Also to the Gazebo here. The other things with the landscape are playgrounds and site lighting. Well provide you with all the details on light. We plan to keep all the light on the site, not spill it onto everybody else's properties, not to have a big intensive kind of light. Not that big yellow sodium lighting at all. Are there any other questions on the landscape? Well provide a full plan. M Case - Why can't you tear down the houses further away from me instead of infringing on my privacy? D Sutton - You'll have to ask Steve about that. All I know is where is right of way came in to access ... M Case - Well, I know where my right of way comes in, too, and his doesn't come only as far as that barn, not on this side of the barn. D Sutton - That could be, because I know that is proposed to be torn down. M Case - That is the end, right there, of the shared driveway. D Sutton - If he builds this and puts the trees in, something is going to be negotiated with you, that works for you. M Case - They are not going to come in and infringe on me, not one little bit. D Sutton - I don't think that's the intent. B Harner - And I think everyone is aware we have a licensed land surveyors map here which researched all the deeds, went out and check the pins, and it clearly labels all the property lines so that we know where we stand with that. Cl C Hatfield - Let's go back to that road. Why couldn't that road go right down between those two houses Marchell owns? Or move the second one and put it right down through there so it: would be 75 - 80 feet away from Molly. S Lucente - He wants to keep them. We don't own that land. He will continue to own the land and those houses. All we've got is a right of way. Cl C Hatfield - Yeah, but you could own one, couldn't you? Page 15 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 B Hamer - Well, another impact that I see right off the bat, if we were to put the road at this location, we are going to have to push everything back and lose a lot of these parking • spaces. I believe we agreed to a parking plan. You can't just come straight down the hill, so everything would be pushed back and the slope gets steeper the further down you go so it makes it more difficult to put a road. That is the best place to put it for the site. C1 C Hatfield - Yeah, but you could still come off the site and bend it a little bit and still end out on 366 to the north farther. B Harper - I guess if I could quickly show* you this here, if you don't mind. You see how the spacing is in the contours, it is very, very steep there. So what I was saying to you is they would have to push ... Cl C Hatfield - Where does your road come down now? B Hamer - Right now apparently the road comes down right at this location where it is much flatter and less transition, so what I was saying to you is if I push the road over, I can come at an angle and build a road there ... bit of a curve in Cl C Hatfield - Right here. If you come right around here, these elevations are the same and you can swing the end of it over with a little bit of a curve in it... B Hamer - and then through the garage and meander it down through, is that what you are proposing? Cl C Hatfield - Right down through here. Get away from Molly. Supv Schug - Mr. Lucente says that Marchell still owns these properties. C1 C Hatfield - Yeah, but I don't think he's married to them. Cl T Hatfield - Right now he still owns all of it doesn't he? S Lucente - Yeah, and after the project, too. C1 T Hatfield - I mean the whole thing. S Lucente - Oh, upper, yes. Cl T Hatfield - You've got to negotiate your own deal. Erica Evans - I just have a question about lighting. Do you think you might be able to put lighting with shaded .... So it doesn't shine out. D Sutton - Yes. B Harper - If I could show you this here. This is similar to the church down the road, but this is a very low intensity light. It is not like your typical 1,000 watt bulb at your Home Depots, Walmarts, etc. It is a lower base, less intense, but it is a. bright light where it will provide safety. They also make this type too, for your walkways and so forth, so you can pretty much see your path. One other thing I'd like to note, it is very easy to do. You can basically do a light intensity graph to see how much foot candles of light you have and where it spreads out through the project. So we can control this and work with manufacturers and youll see this information. So the lighting will be controlled. It is not going to be bright, intense, like sodium • Page 16 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 light fixtures which give off that very bright yellowy light. We are going to do more natural lighting to fit in with the upscale community. Supv Schug - The gentlemen in the back corner had a question. Name and address please. Charles Hanley, 151 Baker Hill Road - I didn't hear too much talk about the effect on automotive traffic in the area. I think you mentioned briefly 366, but if I understand the nature of the target market for this development, it is students who will be living in Varna and therefore wanting to travel obviously from Cornell to their homes. Students like water seek like paths and my guess is that you are going to draw a lot of these people to the East Hill Plaza, especially with the new magnet of a Burger King up there. A lot of that traffic is going to go down Ellis Hollow and across on Game Farm or even worse, take the back entrance into Turkey Hill. The Turkey Hill/Mt Pleasant crossroads is one of the most dangerous intersections in the Town. I wonder what you think is going to keep people from there when they run into the daily rush on 366 from simply turning around and taking that back road, running into those wonderful snowdrifts by Alton Reed's place on Turkey Hill and then making that turn on the four corners of Mt Pleasant and Turkey Hill. Especially for a development of this size. Students can not have seen the nice charts that are supposed to send them down 366 and the Town can end up with an extremely hazardous situation. Supv Schug - Thank you. Susan Ashdown - Has there been a new traffic study done? B Harper - Basically, the only thing I can offer you is that detailed study. We looked at every scenario woe could come up with. We also analyzed Mt Pleasant Road and again, I can't stress enough that it was scrutinized and went through several revisions and we submitted more calculations, more information. We did more traffic counts to get the most updated information we can. We received a letter from the State Department of Transportation stating that well have no significant impact on the level of service at 366. I guess one thing I would like to stress is that we didn't simply say well, the traffic is going to go here, the traffic is going to there. We looked at every possible scenario that we could to give you the worst possible conditions for the traffic on the site. So again, we have approved calculations and the letter from the DOT. Again, you are welcome to look at these. C Hanley - All I would suggest to the board is that we all know that there are tables and statistics and you can do the traffic counts on the road you specified, but I certainly wouldn't suggest or tell you your own business, but certainly part of the planning process is to anticipate what humans will do under different situations. I think anyone familiar with that area has to know that we will be creating large streams of traffic on Ellis Hollow and we also have to look at the town's exposure at those intersections which are quite dangerous. That stretch of Turkey Hill in the winter is almost impossible to keep open. While their report I'm sure has dotted every I and crossed every T as per what they have anticipated, your job, of course, is to see what maybe they didn't anticipate. I think this situation is a disaster waiting to happen. B Harper - I could add one other thing. Safety is a big concern with DOT and they did analyze this intersection and looked at signals and so forth to see what improvements could be made at the Mt Pleasant, Freese Road, 366 intersection. So they analyzed that. They also tell me that they have a long range plan in process to look at the safety along this corridor. When they do that they don't .just look at 366, they look at every side street to see what improvements could be made. So the DOT is constantly looking at safety, volumes of traffic, ® they take counts every other year at the site at different locations and again, DOT is looking into safety along that road. Page 17 of 34 TB 8- 20-99 Ken Finkelstein - I live on 366 at 944 Dryden Road. I just want to point out two things about the DOT. One is that, as Jim and you folks on the Board know, we, you, asked DOT if they would consider lowering the speed limits, or putting up signs because of the fact that kids get on the bus at a time of day when there is hundreds of cars, a thousand cars per hour, going by. They wouldn't do that. They didn't deem it necessary. This letter that is being presented as proof that the DOT has looked at the situation. They were concerned about that the traffic level would not go over a certain threshold, a threshold that they 've set, that this road can handle. It's not the same thing as living in the neighborhood and finding that 100 or 200 cars per hour increase is happening because of a project. The DOT does not live on my street and I don't think that they appreciate, as you probably can appreciate yourself, that they really understand our situation. S Ashdown - I'd second that and also say that we are talking about community along the road. It is a community along the road. The DOT is interested in volumes of traffic and how many cars they can safely (for the cars) accommodate, but they are not considering children boarding buses, people who must cross the road to their mailboxes, people who are Transit riders and must cross the road to get to a bus stop, the whole consideration of the livability of the road, not the just ability of the road to carry cars, but the livability of the road is left out of considerations. Marshall Taylor, 61 Turkey Hill Road - At the last meeting I said that this is the type of project that I could favor because of the fact it could concentrate in perhaps a reasonable way effects that would otherwise be spread out over the town. What I have listened to tonight in terms of the scope of the EIS brings up a number of concerns that I think need to be addressed. First off, I have looked carefully at the documentation they prepared before looking at storm water and the drainage off of the 70 acres up stream and so forth. They were very careful and the gentlemen was very careful tonight talking about "on our site" or `our site" and I think perhaps he'd want to revisit the question that Mahlon asked him and take another look at that because his previous analysis does not address that question. I think that question has to be addressed in the draft environmental impact statement. It really concerns me that not a word has been said about what could be one of the benefits of this project and that is in terms of handling non -point source pollution in the Fall Creek watershed. They completely ignored this. We know with high density residential development, for example, that we have concentrations of oil and grease pollution, herbicide and pesticide pollution, animal fecal matter, particularly from domestic animals and so forth, and what bothers me is that there's a number of BMPs that address this types of things that have not been addressed here at all, not even mentioned. They talked about the pond design. They didn't mention any infiltration versus just running through a wet pond in order to increase the efficiency of the treatment of storm water. They didn't talk in their drainage plan, they didn't discuss, obviously I haven't been privy to the drainage plan yet. They haven't talked about any of the standard BMPs like curb cuts that gets water off of the paved areas, back on to lawn, where it can infiltrate and so forth and then be moved out in a slower, more orderly manner through the pond. There is a whole number of technologies and so forth that can be applied there. I would hope this board would realize that what we have is an opportunity to do something positive in terms of development of the town, but if the draft Environmental Impact Statement ignores this portion, non - point source pollution issues, is it better with the project. What can be done on the project space to handle non -point source pollution issues, oil, grease, fecal matter, herbicides, pesticides and so forth, then that opportunity would be lost. Jim Skaley, 940 Dryden Road - A couple of comments I'd like to point out. Mr. Lucente's lawyer made a statement about density spreading out over the whole hamlet and so Page 18 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 forth. I'l1 address that. 1 also wanted to address an issue that was discussed at the EAF presentation in terms of impact on the character of the community or neighborhood. The board decided that that was not applicable with regard to the issue of permanent population. The reason given was that the definition was defined that the community was equivalent to the town of Dryden. I talked with the DEC permits office in Albany and asked their opinion regarding what constitutes community or neighborhood and there is nothing in the SEQR law that states anything about the municipality being defined as equivalent to the community. The action in this situation would be that the community would be in terms of the hamlet of Varna. That constitutes the neighborhood. That constitutes the community structure that they're talking about here. So in terms of increase in population, this project would then significantly increase the size of the community of Varna. The other point, spreading out the density over the whole area of Varna doesn't make much sense. We are talking about an RC Zone where there is a situation in the General Plan that specifies a density of a certain amount and that was implied, I presume under the subsequent zoning, that that would be on basis of the type of parcel development we're talking about. If that is then the case, well then 2.9 per acre density doesn't make any sense. The second point on that would be you can't take what you are bringing into a site, a high density situation, and then distribute that across the remaining area That would be the same argument if you were retaining water or not retaining water or distributing your water around the whole area The impact is to the localized area, not to the whole township or even the broader area. Supv Schug - Does anybody else have any comments they'd like to make? Peggy Walbridge, 123 Hunt Hill Road - When I started hearing the concerns on Mt Pleasant Road and Turkey Hill Road intersection, and Turkey Hill Road and Ellis Hollow Road, for about 15 years at least the Town has been trying to get DOT to put a four -way stop on Mt Pleasant and Turkey Hill Road, and DOT in its wisdom, excuse my cynicism, never thinks there ® is enough traffic. I was at a meeting that was held in the Ellis Hollow Community Center last Fall over widening Ellis Hollow Road and the same concern of the danger of Turkey Hill Road and Ellis Hollow Road came up and the same replies that people haven't been killed, all we need to do is raise it to get a better site line, and everything like that. Are we as a Town just going to wait until we kill people at intersections because of bad planning and because of DOT's unwillingness to look at rural towns. They look at us in the same way they measure New York City or very crowded suburban areas so that we really don't get, in my opinion, a very good deal from DOT in these sort of rural intersections. They just don't have the capacity and 1 think the Board really has to address this because I agree that students go in the path of least resistance and you are going to have a lot of traffic that is going to sort of stream through the western part of Ellis Hollow. Supv Schug - Thank you. Does anybody else have any other comments? If not, what I would like to see happen as Mahlon pointed out to their attorney, to do a brief description on your proposed action .I I Atty Perkins - Actually, so the public knows and can be involved in this. What the project sponsor is supposed to do is to submit a draft scope containing certain items which are identified in the regs. It seems to me that that has not yet been done, that this process tonight was instituted at the request of the applicant to find out what the concerns are to sort of get public input and to hear an outline of what the project sponsor thinks should be in the written scope, the draft scope. So the actual time table doesn't start to run until the Town Board receives that draft scope. The sponsor is free to use the comments tonight, that it has heard from the Board and from the public to come up with the draft scope. That draft scope must contain at least five items and those five items are (1) a brief description of the proposed action, (2) potentially significant adverse impacts identified both in the positive declaration and as a ® result of consultation with the other involved agencies and the public, including an identification of those particular aspects of the environmental setting that may be impacted, (3) Page 19 of 34 TB 8-26-99 the extent and quality of information needed for the preparer to adequately address each impact including an identification of relevant existing information and required new • information including the required methodologies for obtaining new information, (4) an initial identification of mitigation measures and (5) reasonable alternatives to be considered. Now when that draft scope is submitted to the Town it then has to be given to all the involved agencies and anyone who has requested a copy of it in writing. Then you have your opportunity to comment on that: draft scope. That period for the Town to come up with a final written scope will not start to run until it has that draft scope from the project sponsor. So the Town Board may want to consider not casting its time tables in stone at this point since it doesn't actually have a written scope which we anticipated we would have this evening. The project sponsor certainly has heard concerns from the public, from the Board and has identified a number of them so that he can come up with something to start the process with. Supv Schug - You have a copy of our Part Three. J Stevens - Was that in the packet we got yesterday? Supv Schug - Yes. So all the people know, the impact on the land and what happens and part of it is the erosion, siltation, and runoff. They are large impacts, a physical change to the property, disturbance levels of treating runoff on site, which I think covers some of the water issues. The impact on water —will the proposed action affect any nonprotected existing or new body of water. Yes, it will. A manmade pond on the property. Please take a good look at that and in writing tell us what you are going to do about it. The water itself, effects on surface and ground water quality and quantity. It's in this report. We'd like you to address that. I think we would ask you how you plan to get the water from the top of the hill to the bottom of the hill without going through somebody's backyard or house, or kitchen or whatever. • P Walbridge - I'm not clear exactly what I heard, but I heard a lot about yeah, we're going to follow State regs, but I hope that the Board is going to insist they are going to show how they follow state regulations doing the drainage plan, because it seems a little easy to just say we are going to follow regulations. I think everybody is very concerned about how did those regulations apply to the slopes and everything. Supv Schug - That's why I was just running through the stuff that we picked up and that this Board said that were positive, difficult problems that should be addressed by the sponsor. Change of water flow and the surface runoff, open space and recreation, impact on transportation, noise and odor, growth and character of the community. Among others is the traffic situation and I believe we also talked in here about the effect on the school district. K Finkelstein - Can I comment about the school district? Supv Schug - You already have, but go ahead. K Finkelstein - I wanted to tell you that I followed up on the school district thing, and from what I gather you are not going to hear anything from the school district because the school district has to take the state position that they offer a uniform quality of education for all kids in the district and therefore, although it is very likely that they will have to redistrict if there are a large number of increases in the children in Varna, they can promise us that the education will be the same no matter where they put our kids. So Judith Pastel stated at the last Board meeting that the school cannot take any position on any project because they are here to provide a uniform quality of education. So they are kind of aware of this and my understanding is that they can't do anything in terms of input one way or another. But it is still clear to me that the school will basically change in some way. Either the kids from West Page 20 of 34 TB 8 -26 99 Hill won't be able to go there or our children won't be able to go there. Something has to give because the school is full now. Supv Schug - You don't believe the school district either? K Finkelstein - No, that's not it. I just know that the school district will make a decision about redistricting when they have the kids, the numbers, and that is not going to help me because then I'll be the victim of it if I live in Varna, or perhaps maybe they'll wind up sending my kids to, I don't know, Harvard or something like that. Cl Grantham - Mahlon, were your comments just now the gist of the whispered conversations with Jim and ... scope. Atty Perkins - Yes. I told the Supervisor that what we had does not constitute a draft Supv Schug - Those are the five criteria, page 20. Cl Grantham - Why only five, not all seven? Can you explain that to me? Atty Perkins - Because that is what the are what the lead agency must consider. We d written scope and make that available to other Cl Grantham - Okay, right. Supv Schug - So, project sponsor, your the... J Stevens - In narrative form. Atty Perkins - Look at the regs. J Stevens - Yeah. regulations require. Actually the other parts o�n't get a crack at that until we receive the involved agencies and the public. homework assignment is to go home and write Supv Schug - Just read them and do what they ask. Take into consideration what you've heard people say. How you are going to address those problems. It will make life a lot easier on you and the people in the audience and on the Town Board if you can sensibly answer those questions. Cl Grantham - So we are not having a meeting on ... Supv Schug - We are not having meetings those days. I asked for September 27 for any written comments that the people have. If you have some, get them in. Atty Perkins - I think that that date really needs to be re- evaluated because we don't know when we are going to get the draft scope. We anticipated we'd have a draft scope tonight, but if you are using this as a session to feel out ... J Stevens - To narrow it. Atty Perkins - Then you still have to submit that document. ® Supv Schug - But if you have something, please put it in writing. Dave did a nice job with his letter. He reiterated pretty much what we had gone over at the last meeting. Page 21 of 34 TB K -26 -99 K Finklestein - How will we know when the clock starts ticking and all the information is in your hands so that we can then review that information and make any public comments we want? There wouldn't be an announcement: in the newspaper. Is it possible for you to put it on your web site? Supv Schug -When we know, well notify the Varna Community Center. You can get ahold of the people out there. We'll ask Casey Stevens to put it on the radio, if you listen to him in the morning. And we'll tell the Journal, but if you read it in there and if you have any questions, call us and find out what the real scoop is. J Stevens - We can also do a mailing of at least notice to all those people who have signed in at each of the meetings that we've had. Supv Schug - If you'd like to, that would be very nice. P Walbridge - Jim, did you say earlier that people could write in, if they made a request in writing for a copy of this draft that they would get it? Atty Perkins - Yes. Supv Schug -Yes. P Walbridge - So in other words, anyone here who wants a copy of the draft... Supv Schug - Even those who aren't here. P Walbridge - But they need to write to the Town I assume for it and then those copies will be made for the community. Atty Perkins - The Town will provide a copy of the draft scope to all involved agencies and make it available to any individual or interested agency that has expressed an interest in writing to the Town Board. Cl Beck - Any one. Atty Perkins - Any one, individual or interested agency, as opposed to involved agency. Erica Evans - A letter to the Supervisor? Atty Perkins - Yes, or to the Town Clerk. Cl Grantham - And then I think my last question is we have our minutes and we have this document from you, Mahlon, dated August 17, do we at some point have to accept that? Not tonight. Atty Perkins - No, actually that is the positive declaration which was prepared from all the board's comments and the notes I took. I hope I've got it reflective of what the consensus was on those issues. Supv Schug - That's what I just asked them to take a look at and address all of the things that are in that and anything else that they've heard tonight or feel is appropriate to address. Cl Grantham - Okay. Page 22 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 ® J Stevens - Thank you. Supv Schug - Dave wanted to talk about the painting and repair of the NYSEG tanks. I think I sent you a copy of the letter. D Putnam - They started today and they may even get it done on time, but in case they have weather problems or delays in delivery of steel, they have requested an extension. Cl T Hatfield - An extension to when? D Putnam - To have it painted by the end of September and done by the middle of October. Atty Perkins - In other words, the first day they started work they asked for an extension of time. work. D Putnam - They asked for an extension of time Monday or so, before they started Cl T Hatfield - Are they concerned about the weather? D Putnam - The only concern is the paint and I would recommend that we grant the extension if they would provide a faster paint if the weather does turn cold and they could redo that at no extra cost. Cl T Hatfield - You are saying that would have been in increased cost, but they are iswilling to bear that cost? D Putnam - Yes. I'd like your formal approval tonight and I'll get you the formal paperwork to the regular Town Board meeting. Supv Schug - They'll use a better grade of paint at no extra charge. Atty Perkins - But that is not what they're promising to do. They're only promising to do that if the weather gets bad. D Putnam - There's no need to change the paint unless the weather gets bad. Cl Grantham - What if the weather gets bad half way through the painting? D Putnam - The paint needs a certain temperature to cure and the fast cure paints will cure at a lower temperature, down to 35, but they are much more difficult for the contractor to work with and they cost more. Cl Grantham - How long does it physically take to paint the tank? D Putnam - If we don't have to do an extensive interior tank repair, they've probably got a week of steel work and a week of sandblasting and a week of painting, three weeks. Cl Grantham - So it could be that they'd be half way through the painting and the temperature changes. D Putnam - Then they change the paint. It is the same paint formulated to cure at a colder temperature. Page 23 of 34 TB K -26 -99 Cl Grantham - I don't care about the difference in color. If the paint doesn t have a chance to cure... how many hours does it need to cure? D Putnam - It needs 8 to 10 hours to cure, but it's the temperature that they apply it at. It can get cooler once its applied and on the tank. The temperature as the paint is applied is critical. Atty Perkins - When does the contract call for completion now? D Putnam - September 15, so its two weeks. Cl C Hatfield - He's a week behind. Atty Perkins - More than that because he hasn't gotten started. Isn't the idea to keep the pressure on them to get it done? D Putnam - The idea is to get: it done and get it done right. If I put too much pressure on them, I'm afraid they'll rush and try to take a short cut. if I don't do that, we are going to get a quality job. Atty Perkins - How are you going to know that he gets the right paint on there unless you inspect it? D Putnam - I will. Atty Perkins - So you are going to inspect it anyway. D Putnam - That's correct. Atty Perkins - So aren't you going to insure that we get the quality job? D Putnam - Yes. The other thing... Atty Perkins - I don't see what the upside to the Town is when he's only been on the job one day and you've got all of September yet to go. D Putnam - But his contract is done September 15. Atty Perkins - Well, let's find out where he is on September 15. Cl T Hatfield - Or September 7. It's the next time we meet. I think we need some sort of window. Cl Grantham - That's what 1 think. Webe got two weeks til our next board meeting practically. Atty Perkins - Isn't it better practice to get him going and see where he is and if he's worked diligently and so forth to get to that point, or had weather delays or not had weather delays. Won't wre be in a better position to evaluate at that point? Cl T Hatfield - We've got a meeting September 7. Youll know more by then. D Putnam - I had the opportunity tonight and I wanted to talk to you about it. The second thing is the tank that eve are painting in Lansing, the last time it was painted the Page 24 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 painters hid some stuff in the tank which we've discovered and had fused and it is going to cost the Village of Lansing some extra money. I hope we don't find that this time. The first time the tank was painted, 2 paintings ago in the Village of Lansing, apparently the contractor did not do a good job of sand blasting and there are a lot of pits from milscale in the steel. The second contractor came in and kind of filled those all in with pitfiller instead of welding the bad ones, so we spent three days in there welding up the ones that should have been welded the last time. It shouldn't have occurred if it was sand blasted right the first time. D Putnam - What I'm saying is were got an allowance. Atty Perkins - But you don't know yet. D Putnam - We don't know yet, and it was a complete surprise once we started blasting the paint of. Supv Schug - September 7, that's a full two weeks away and by that time you ought to have it all sandblasted and be welding and be ready to paint on the 8«1, right. D Putnam - I don't know, it sounds good. Cl C Hatfield - These are covered tanks, with a manhole in the top? D Putnam - There is one manhole in the side, we're putting another one in to make it OSHA compliant and there'll be two manholes in the roof. Cl C Hatfield - So they're sandblasting in kind of a dusty atmosphere. Cl Beck - If they get it partially done and run out of weather, where does that leave us? D Putnam - They'll be able to get it done. With the right paint we can apply down to 35 degrees. Supv Schug - Okay, we are all aware of it. Let us know on the 7u, exactly where we are. D Putnam - I will do that. Supv Schug - These two people, especially the Malepe's called. These are people we talked about and who got a grant from the County for one - third of the cost of Malepe's project and they expect the Malepes to put in a third and they have been told by Soil & Water that the Town should be expected to put in a third. The same with the Chens and their project is $3,500 each, the County, the Chens and the Town. Both of these require going off site. The gentlemen here tonight is Craig Schutt, the Conservation District Manager, who was involved with these projects and talking to the people. I talked with the contractor today that is going to do the work for Malepes and he said the best thing he would ask us is if we could haul or get the rip rap. That is going to cost money. Do we want to spend $2,222 and have Mix's haul the rip rap over there and whatever and Chen's, I don't know. I really don't want our crews and people going off the roads. C1 T Hatfield - Can we legally do it? Supv Schug - We're not supposed to. We've done it in the past and under certain circumstances. That's why Jack had the project where people and he had to sign. We'd have to be held harmless if any of our equipment or men went on the property. Does the Town want to be part and help these people out? I did one thing though, Craig. I took a ride down to Malepe's house. Their house is at 25 West Malloryville Road and they are the furthest house Page 25 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 away from the bridge going up toward the hill toward Fall Creek Road. Three years ago a lady bought the house that's down in back there and asked us if we could haul in dirt or whatever to fill along the creek. If you do Malepe's, how about the rest of the people that are on the creek. made. Craig Schutt - They have the opportunity to apply to this program. Cl Beck - Did we realize our involvement with this thing initially? Cl T Hatfield - No. Cl Beck - And it's a legal obligation that we are held to? Supv Schug - We are not obligated to do anything. It was just a suggestion that was CI Grantham - Can you talk about what you are going to do on these two sites? C Schutt - On Malepe's basically we are going to armor the bank. (Displayed photos) Supv Schug - This brings back the issue on Kimberly Drive. He had his water problems and we refused to fix his. C Schutt - The creek curves right at Malepe's, they are right on an oxbow. Supv Schug - But there are six other houses that are also in trouble. Cl Grantham - So what are you going to do exactly? • C Schutt - The plan is in there. It tells what is planned ... Cl C Hatfield - Just rip rap, basically. Cl T Hatfield - I think the County is trying to railroad us into being part of this. C Schutt - The Town was sent all the information in the Spring. That's all I can say. I apologize if the information never got to you people. Cl T Hatfield - There's a difference between getting this information and spending our money. I'm talking about the people's money and the Town of Dryden and the taxpayers that we represent. If we do it for one taxpayer, why don't we do it for all roughly 20,000 people. I just don't quite understand where we got into this position. It doesn't mean it is wrong, I just don't understand it yet, okay. It's fine for the County to put money up and make grants in conjunction with municipalities that are in fact then doing things that they are allowed to do with their money. I can buy into that and I think we made an application for such a grant, Yellow Barn. What happened to that? That makes sense to me. C Schutt - The committee felt that with the amount of money we had to use, that that project was way beyond the scope. The County only put up $25,000 and the idea is to help individuals out, landowners, where they have problems. Cl T Hatfield - The County has the legal authority to do that? Page 26 of 34 TB x -26 -99 Supv Schug - No, I don't believe so. Here's the thing that Ron asked. The first thing on the application: The project has been evaluated and prioritized by the municipal watershed committee for funding. Now, is that the Town's watershed committee? C Schutt - Yes. Supv Schug - That is made up of myself, Reba Taylor, Jack I believe, and Jon Bradley, and we have meetings and we have agreed to do the work in the Village on Penny Lane and to use the County funding for that. The village wanted to use it for two years and I said okay well give up two years because we're not ready. Then we got to the Yellow Barn and I said from then on we would like to have a couple years to put some money in for the Yellow Barn project. We never knew about these until the day they were applied for. Cl C Hatfield - So they didn't come before the committee is what you are saying? Supv Schug - That's what I'm saying, which is fine, but it's the first thing they ask. Then a sketch plan and design and whatever. You must have done that for these people. C Schutt - Right. Supv Schug - Breakdown of funding sources and matches, landowner, municipality and county funds. Cl Grantham - I would like to help people in these kinds of problems, but the problems that I see with it are first of all that it is piece meal. It is one property owner's streamfront here. It doesn't address the entire stream stretch... isC Schutt - No, it doesn't. Cl Grantham - It doesn't address the watershed. Another one is here, same issue. It is not coordinated with other things like the Yellow Barn Road or this particular application that we were reviewing tonight and it just,.. C Schutt - But if you go out on Six Mile Creek which Caroline has been working with this program for years, it is getting coordinated because we are doing projects here and the next year we are doing projects here and the next year here. Cl T Hatfield - We understand that. We've heard that argument before. That's why we felt Yellow Barn made sense. There is some extensive work there that makes sense and we've gone and made that commitment. I don't understand why the left hand is trying to tell the right hand what to do and it doesn't seem to be coordinated with things that we've been working on and the committee that the town has had set up to look at that and work with the unit hasn't been consulted on this particular application. C Schutt - I did send Jim a letter asking to please give us some information on how this fit in with the total town plan, and I never received a response. Supv Schug - We didn't even know about it. We had no input on the applications. Cl T Hatfield - And what group is it that you work with that rejected the Yellow Barn application because it just didn't make sense to you guys? Supv Schug - It was too much money. ® C Schutt - It was too much money. Page 27 of 34 1B 8- 2649 Cl T Hatfield - You're talking about Caroline taking so much money. We're very patient, we can do the same thing. C Schutt - The Committee is made up of a Board rep, myself, a person from EMC, a County engineer, and a member from the County Planning Department. Cl T Hatfield - So there is no local input at all. C Schutt - That's why we try to get the local municipalities involved. Cl T Hatfield - What I'm saying to you is we gave you our municipal input with respect to Yellow Barn which this whole body spent a lot of time working on ... C Schutt - Why were those other people not even considered though in this process? Cl T Hatfield - They never asked. Supv Schug - They never came to us. C Schutt - I believe they came to you and asked for input. Supv Schug, - They called up and said they wanted to put their applications in. I said I can't stop you from doing it, but it hasn't been reviewed by anybody. Cl T Hatfield - Understand, I'm not trying to give you a hard time... C Schutt - No, I understand where you guys are coming from. Cl T Hatfield - What I'm trying to do is get to an understanding. These are great. Don't get me wrong, intermunicipal cooperation is very high on at least my list, and this board has done it many times. But we can't have intermunicipal cooperation when all the communication is one way. C Schutt - Exactly. Supv Schug - The tough part of this Malepe one, and I understand where they're conning from, but there are six other houses between them and the bridge. Cl T Hatfield - And a couple of them have come to us and asked for help, I guess. C1 Beck - I've seen water across that road enough times though. Every property down there is in danger. Cl T Hatfield - That area is just as valuable and just as important as Yellow Barn. Okay, so get some more money and well sit down and work with you on both of them. But don't reject Yellow Barn out of hand. Were already done a lot of work there. C Schutt - The application came in for $485,000. We had $25,000 to work with. Supv Schug - We only asked you to fund $8,000 for the engineering work that was done. C Schutt - And I think it said very plainly that this money was for implementation. You requested $21,000. That's your application right there. The total project cost was $486,850 Page 28 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 and you wanted $21,0000 county funds and we had $25,000 to spread around the county. That was the biggest reason I think that it got rejected. It's such a big project. If we spent $21,000 there, what would we do in the rest of the county. Cl T Hatfield - I think the biggest question that you are begging me to ask is what are you going to do with $25,000 that is going to make an impact when a project like Yellow Barn requires that kind of money based on engineering studies. C Schutt - If you leverage that $25,000, then you are doing $75,000 worth of work. Cl T Hatfield - But it is not coordinated. You are doing a piece meal approach, like Deb just said. C Schutt - We don't disagree with that statement. We're saying to the County we need more money because this isn't enough to do big stretches. Cl T Hatfield - I'll leave you with this thought since we're beating a dead horse a little bit. Look at the Virgil Creek dam project where the County, the Village and the Town leveraged money and really did something that has a major positive impact on the entire community, not just a single property. It seems like you're almost throwing money away. Cl Grantham - You know the way to make an impact county -wide with that $25,000 is an educational program on stream site management for landowners. C Schutt - But the County appropriates that money for implementation on property. We are following the guidlelines that they are giving us. Supv Schug - The problem is the County is giving money and saying we can do in -kind services with our highway equipment and whatever. The problem with that is the County is not going to go off in somebody's back yard and fix it. They'll give them money to do it. Cl T Hatfield - Or take the risk of going across a septic tank or sewer line and water line. It's like Pandora's box. Supv Schug - Dave did a big study on the Pinckney Road area Don Gilbert and I, and I believe Deb, visited the site. There's a guy there who wants us to do his backyard. It took forever, and we told him no, we can't afford to do it. We have a responsibility to protect the highway, and there we spent a bunch of money from Lower Creek all the way up to where the creek bends into it. It's all rip rap up through there, but we can't go in the guy's back yard and put rip rap in his yard. If we do his, we've got to go all the way around the circle and do everybody else's. You can only do it so far. It's up to the Board, if you want to spend the money. J Bush - What exactly are you trying to do as far as enhancing the bank? Is that raising the edge of the bank up? C Schutt - No. Cl Beck - Just rip rap. J Bush - I don't see how it is going to solve the problem. That whole area floods. Cl T Hatfield - It addresses a single property. It's great to want to start somewhere, but it seems like in this instance it is throwing money away. By the time you get back to it if you 've Page 29 of 34 Tl3 8 -26 -99 had any kind of major water event some of that stun' is going to be laying in somebody else's yard. 0 Cl Grantham - Well, that's exactly right and if the whole stretch is not done, then anything that happens anywhere else in the watershed is going to .... Supv Schug - You're an engineer more than I am, but if you do the guy at the tail end of where the water is going, because he applied for it, how about the other houses up around the bend? When that water is coming down and his is all stabilized and the water comes up over the bank it is going to be in everybody's back yard. Cl Beck - I don't think it's going to raise the water level. I guess I'd suggest a proposal for how they want to use the money, and if we can use our equipment and stay on the road to deliver some rip rap or something without getting on the guy's yard or pavement to haul it down there to do these projects, then maybe have some input in to the adjoining landowners for them to apply for next year's situation. We could approve that too, to get out of the mess we're in. There's no sense in sitting here and beating it to death. It looks like we're kind of committed at this point to do something, but I don't want to see us commit to take our trucks and stuff off the road. That guy has a long driveway and backyard and that property is pretty mushy and I can see everything buried in there. Cl Grantham - The cost of getting agreements to let us do that is going to have us spending way more than $2,000. Cl Beck - Or let someone else take the liability and well provide the cash or something for the project. Supv Schug - Remember, you supply these people with cash and you're going to have to supply every homeowner who has a creek going through his back yard. He will pay one -third of the cost. Cl Beck - I understand. If the County comes up with the same sort of program, and if these properties really need fixing that bad, maybe we should be providing some small assistance to the ones that really need it. Cl Grantham - But I don't think we should be doing it without looking at the whole watershed or subwatershed that these streams are in because if you do one part of it and you don't look at the whole thing, you may not be doing what really needs to be done. Cl C Hatfield - We could spend a fortune going the whole length of Tompkins County on Fall Creek. Cl Beck - I don't think the whole watershed is within the scope of the Town. Cl Grantham - The subwatershed, that part of the stream could be looked at. I'm not convinced that rip rapping the tributary along Yellow Barn Road is going to work either. I don't think that rip rap is necessarily the answer. I think you need to look at the whole thing. So -I'm just concerned with doing one property and one there and not taking a look at the big picture, not doing a good hydrologic study of these areas and doing it right. Cl Beck - Even if you had an engineering study for just that section of Fall Creek, a half mile or quarter mile, it's going to cost us $20,000 just for the engineering study. Page 30 of 34 TB R -26 -99 Cl C Hatfield - These people that bought land and knew the Yellow Barn stream ran through it, the people that bought on Fall Creek, they knew that was there when they bought it. They're got to take a little responsibility on fixing their own problems. Supv Schug - They are paying a third. Cl C Hatfield - Yes, but they aren't paying 1001/o. Cl Grantham - You're right. They built there. Cl Beck - And if it was you and I and it was bad enough, we'd fix it, and we wouldn't ask the Town or the County to help us. Supv Schug - People who buy on Cayuga Lake build their own breakwall, and pay for a permit to do that. CI C Hatfield - If the funds are there and they can ask for a grant and they get it, I guess you can't blame them, but yet it has to all mesh together. Cl T Hatfield - Personally, I'm against it at the moment.. Primarily because it is just too piece meal. I'm in favor of doing generally this kind of effort, but it has to be available to every- body and it has to make sense in the entire picture. To pick out one in middle? If it is was one on either end, I think I'd have a little different attitude. Cl Grantham - It's no better. Cl Beck - You say Jim that we have done it in certain instances. Supv Schug - To protect our own roads only. Maybe 20 years ago I understand that the Highway Superintendent took fill from someplace and put it down behind those very houses and built like a berm. If you've been down there you know what I'm talking about. What happens when the water piles up down there and hits the bank on the far side, it goes down the stream and comes back into their yards and Malepe gets washed out because the stream has to turn sharper there. I'm sure that's what Craig wants to protect. That was a long time ago when the Town did that and as I remember, seeing the drawings, they only did it from the bridge down about two or three of the houses. J Bush - I also think we have to be careful of how we use the highway funds, and really for us to be involved we would have to find a reason that basically we were getting involved because we were trying to protect the highway itself. Right now, knowing the way that floods and how that comes up, I can't see how enhancing the bank would help protect the highway at all. Supv Schug - I think Craig that you should take a ride out tomorrow. I went today to check and see which house was Malepe's and right on the bridge on the right hand side going past their house, the guy on the right hand side at the creek has cut down three or four big trees right at the edge of the creek. I guess if he owns the property he can cut down anything he wants, but you know what that is going to do when the roots dry. You know that happens to the bank then and it won't be long and the bridge will be washed out. ZO Slater - One of these long range studies for Fall Creek or Virgil Creek might be ideal submittals to help us pick up a grant from F1MA. They can sometimes be substantial, seven or eight hundred thousand dollars. There you could undertake a large project such as this and ® you could still apply our other funds from our share of the $25,000 annually. These types of Page 31 of 34 TB 8 -26-99 plans might help us very well in securing the r EMA support. That looks like a much better place to take the Malloryville situation as a whole. 0 Supv Schug - I really think, and I told you the other night, when we talked to Lucente we asked him specifically, and you heard it, that we want him to care for the water in that stream from his property above and all the way to Fall Creek, not just off his property. C Schutt - Right, and that should help the Chen property. Supv Schug - But I told Angie that way back and Deb and I talked about it last week. Cl C Hatfield - Now is the chance to get him to do it too. To prove his project, he's got to take that channel and maintain it. C Schutt - That's a great way to do it. Cl Grantham - If we are going to say no, we should take a vote. Otherwise you are just writing a letter and there is nolhing to back it up. Cl T Hatfield - I think it would be good for Jim to have that. It's more than just saying no on financial grounds. It's not the money to me, it really isn't. It's the whole concept. What we are trying to do, where we're going, how we are trying to get there. I think if the County wants to go in this direction, let's sit down and figure out a way that makes sense and make sure we're on solid footing, from an environmental stand first and then legal point of view second. Cl C Hatfield - It puts Craig in kind of a bad spot. Cl T Hatfield - Absolutely. He's trying to make things happen for the public and he's trying to serve the county legislature which clearly wants to help things get moving along and provide some matching funds. I applaud that, so don't take the wrong message out of here. Cl Grantham - Maybe with our decision should go a recommendation that the County rethink how they use that money, these are our issues with the applications and these are reasons for not agreeing to the Town part, and this is what we think the County ought to think about. Supv Schug - Their committee and their rules call for the project to be done this year. The Village has asked that they carry the money over. C Schutt - We have for two years for the Village. They haven't done the project and they may lose that money. RESOLUTION #166 - REJECT COUNTY'S REQUEST FOR MATCHING FUNDS MALEPE & CHEN PROJECTS Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby rejects the request of Tompkins County for matching funds for flooding project work on the Malepe and Chen properties in the Town of Dryden, and hereby directs the Supervisor to correspond with the County detailing the reasons for the Town's rejection, and requesting that the County sit down and discuss the program with the Supervisor. 2110 Cl Grantham Page 32 of 34 Roll call vote Cl Beck Yes Cl T Hatfield Yes Cl C Hatfield Yes Cl Grantham Yes TB K -2G -99 M Taylor - I agree with everything I've heard about planning and looking at the watershed. Unfortunately, I haven't heard any of you say that we could improve the communications from the Town's side by forming a committee or whatever... Supv Schug - We have a formalized committee. We had to have one in order to get any funding at all. That's why we did it and why these projects are on the burner. The County failed to contact our committee with respect to these applications. Yes. The Town will communicate. We haven't had a meeting of that group for probably six months. Last I knew the Village was pressing forward and was working with Schickel. I haven't heard anything different until tonight and Henry says he backed out. Cl Grantham - The committee was formed just to respond to this source of funding? Supv Schug - That was part of it, and the other was to look at projects down the road where people were having problems. Cl Grantham - Primarily drainage and flooding types. Supv Schug - Water related problems. Cl C Hatfield - We wouldn't help Rhoades on Kimberly Drive and he sued us and I* everything else. It's the same thing. If you helped him, you'd have to help the rest of them. It's not our job to do those things as a Town. Cl Grantham - Marshall represents us on the Tompkins County Water Resources Council. They are talking about a Fall Creek Watershed Committee. We have this committee, we have Dryden Lake Committee, and Joyce on the EMC and it seems to me we need to talk about bringing that all together and talking about comprehensive town wide environmental planning. Supv Schug - I think that's great and I think Marshall ought to be invited, Henry, when you get talking about those projects with FEMA and stuff, along with Craig. Supv Schug - One other comment, Deb said we should bring it forth. That is the Virgil Creek Dam project. The County was sued for more money. The judgement by the Judge was in favor of the plaintiff and he is going to get a settlement over and above what the other people have received for different portions of the property. Therefore, as you may have remembered, way back I promised the people in that flood plain that if they signed the agreement when they did (and 98% of the people signed up front) that if somebody was paid more money they would be reimbursed the difference between what they had been paid and what this other person got. That's got to be worked out about how much money it is going to be. What's happened is the County, and we wrote letters if you remember, asking the State law makers for dollars to help the state side of the dam project. They got money and they gave it to the County. It was put in the bank. There is enough money in that account to pay, and we haven't put any of our money in that yet, to pay off the lawsuit with some left over. I asked them to break down what it is the other people should get. So you know, Mahlon was the person who lost the rights to the creek. He had access to the creek and the access was taken away from him when the federal soil and ® water conservation designed the dam and then came back and told us at the 11th hour that we Page 33 of 34 TB 8 -26 -99 needed a bigger spillway. So we took his property away from him and he now has no access to the creek. . Cl C Hatfield - Another example of the state getting us to do their homework, treat everybody the same, and then come back and say "oh, we need ten more acres". It made us look like idiots to the people we did business with. Supv Schug - the settlement awarded is $60,000, in that area, and I believe there is $1.50,000 in the kitty. ZO Slater - Today Joe Lalley and I met with the Cornell University City and Regional Planning class group. They signed the contract. We talked at some length. They got some history from us. The process has begun on the long range planning process. There are about 40 kids in the class. Meetings for public comment have been scheduled for September 15 in Varna and September 22 here. The Planning Board secretary is making those arrangements. Casey Stevens will be announcing it on the radio, Channel 7 will have it, and hopefully the Ithaca Journal will do a story or at least put it in the community meeting schedule. It will be «ell publicized. Supv Schug - For the Board's information, the work on Parks Park is coming along real well. Jack and David and I met with the gal from the Plantations and they are going to let us take down the center tree which is really in the right of way. It creates a hazard and will probably dic because of where it sits next to the road. Well dig them a couple of holes and they will put in a couple of other trees and there will be a good, finished, clean project. It will open that area a little bit, but will be safer walking and driving through there. Next Wednesday we are going to meet with the President of the Plantations with regard to the stone wall on Game Farm Road. 0 On motion made, seconded and unanimously carried, the meeting was adjourned at 10:35 p.m. Respectfully submitted, 16.,?Ox w Axl"X-1�Z Bambi L. Hollenbeck Town Clerk Rige 3 3 of 34