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HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-29-2022 Approved Planning Board Public Hearing MinutesVirgil Planning Board Meeting August 29, 2022 1 | Page TOWN OF VIRGIL PLANNING BOARD PUBLIC HEARING & MEETING August 29, 2022, 7:00 PM BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Planning Board Chair Mark Baranello, Board Members Dale Taylor, Sylvia Cook, Karen Cushman and Carole Lathrop OTHERS PRESENT: Jereme Stiles Deputy Supervisor, Daniel Ellis II Town Attorney, Adam Brown Zoning Officer APPLICANTS & PUBLIC PRESENT: Colleen Buchanan, Matthew Denniston, Steve Terwilliger 7:05 PM THE PLANNING BOARD CHAIR MARK BARANELLO CALLED THE PUBLIC HEARING TO ORDER: NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that a meeting and public hearing will be held before the Town of Virgil Planning Board on August 29, 2022, 7 p.m. at the Virgil Town Hall 1176 Church Street, Virgil NY 13045. This Public Hearing is being held to consider proposed changes to the Town of Virgil’s Comprehensive Plan. Chairman Baranello stated that this is a discussion among the audience to provide their opinions about proposed alterations to the comprehensive plan. After the public hearing is closed, the board will enter into a discussion regarding any issues. Speaker #1: Karen Cushman, Planning Board Alternate and Virgil Town Board Member Spoke. Ms. Cushman stated she wanted to look at article F about the renewable energy. That area still concerns her because it says that solar energy should be subject to Site Plan Review, which is great, but I think the larger ones are not because the state waives that and currently it says that they could be included in any of the zones of our town. That is concerning because the agricultural zones could be harmed dramatically. This euphemism that a solar farm is agricultural is not true and I think that the science hasn't been fully completed to find out how toxic that is to our water supply and to the other issues that we want to preserve in the town of Virgil. So, she proposes that maybe we even modify a little further in that solar or renewable energy section. To restrict it to certain areas of the town rather than making it a blanket policy that solar power is okay in any part of our town. I fully appreciate the added idea that it should be on existing structures. I like that idea that people are responsible for their own property and becoming energy self-sufficient is great. But again, I'm pretty opposed to the fact that the state has stacked the deck so that tax incentives are given to big business to come into our town and potentially take away the arable land in the water supply. Speaker #2: Matt Denniston, from Cherry Lane, and I am also a member of the town board. I had a hand in drafting some of the proposals that we put in front of you. I wanted to give a little background on how we got to that between last year and then over the past few months. We've solicited feedback through communication with several town board members as well as having some public open forum opportunities to collaborate on ideas. We had drafted those proposals before I saw the memo from this board's previous meeting. But I was happy to see there seems to be a lot of alignment from the recommendations that you had put forth and what we had developed for as a proposal so thanks. Chairman Mark Baranello asked three times if there was anyone else who wished to speak. There was none. Chairman Baranello closed the public hearing portion of the meeting at 7:10 PM OLD BUSINESS: NONE NEW BUSINESS: DISCUSSION ON THE PROPOSED MODIFICATIONS OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN: Chairman Baranello: opened the discussion by stating that the board was supplied a copy of the comprehensive plan with the proposed changes inserted in red as it was specified by the town board subcommittee that has been working on this and he believes it's true that recommendations were largely congruent with what the planning board has been thinking. That's the direction of the job that faces us now. He deferred to the Town attorney Dan Ellis on the next steps. Baranello stated that he’s thinking that part of the job that lies in front of us now in some modifications, to the zoning law, which would be the responsibility of the town board to establish a mechanism by which these this new direction may be initiated. Baranello asked Ellis for some comments on this. Attorney Dan Ellis: Basically, the Comprehensive Plan gives your town board a foothold to justify any future zoning amendments. So technically, your zoning must be in line with the language or recommendations of your comprehensive plan. Chairman Baranello: In line with the suggestions that we have made in the past, I think it's fair to say that we had in mind a similar direction, as what came out of the committee. I think there's an opening and a desire for senior housing, small retail amenities, and public gathering places, located in the hamlet and along the major roadways So my question is what happens now in terms of the town board, establishing a mechanism by which an individual project might be evaluated? We submitted our suggestions to the town board, suggesting it would be appropriate to add some specific language to the zoning laws, indicating that that type of development. Now it’s time for the board to decide if they wish to change or to expand on the definition of what would be a use by right in the in the hamlet area, and or a use under a conditional permit, and then use the existing conditional permit mechanism to evaluate proposed projects. Baranello stated that it appears to him this is the next step in order to be able to evaluate Mr. Terwilliger plan for this for the school and certainly be open to discussion as to what anybody thinks about where to go from here. Town Board Member Matthew Denniston: One of the things that we heard throughout our process was that the conditional permitting process was cumbersome and kind of tedious to go through. So I think if there's any opportunity for us to identify those uses by right that we think would still fit with the culture that we have in the town and wouldn't inhibit that. I think any opportunity we have to do that would certainly be welcomed. That's something I think we heard kind of repeatedly throughout our process. Chairman Baranello: In addition to the changing the language and in the zoning laws, and in particular the neighborhood residential use that we're working under now. Evaluation of individual proposed projects would take place accordingly to the way those modifications were worded. I have also heard the suggestion that in a case like this, it might be advantageous to have the town board make an evaluation of an individual project, if that were necessary. For example, if it came under a conditional permit or another type of permit could be defined by the board in their changing of the law by virtue of the fact that the town board is an elected body and we are an appointed body. I think some support behind having the town board make this evaluation. But again, they may also find it rather cumbersome, it's a difficult and deliberative process. I just wondered if you had any input the feelings of the town board or the general population, anything that you know, any calls you've got on it or anything like that? Town Board Member Matthew Denniston: I think that there was a lot of uses that weren't called out or addressed at all on our previous zoning. Some of those things we included in the language that is proposed there. The other sort of key piece to the proposals, would be the floating zoning district. The thought being that if we could identify those use uses that, you know, would be appropriate sort of along the main thoroughfares through town. I think regardless of the process we put behind the changes, whether a conditional permit process or through the town board, we are looking at a use by right type scenario. I think they kind of go hand in hand, because Virgil Planning Board Meeting August 29, 2022 2 | Page we're talking about that floating zoning district that would ultimately need some form of approval, presumably through the town board, so It's attached to that process. So, I think the guidance we're looking for, for the town board would be to address you know, as many of those potential uses, we're looking at, you know, hopefully a 10-year plan that is sustainable for us. The more of those uses that we can identify now will help us in the long run and in making those decisions. If we adapt that that floating zoning district style that I think we have good guidance to back us up in this in this plan. Chairman Baranello: Does the town board have plans to make physical changes to the zoning law, by their approval? Town Board Member Matthew Denniston: We don't have anything in writing at this point. But yes, that would be the direction we would go. Chairman Baranello: I would see that as the next step in the adoption of this new structure to provide a structure that we don't legally have right now to evaluate a project that would involve the school. Have any anticipated timeline on that? Town Board Member Matthew Denniston: Our goal is to keep things moving as quickly as possible. Obviously, we wanted to have this conversation and get the feedback from this board. I know it needs to go before the county planning board as well. And we'll let you know the feedback we get from them. Our goal is just to keep things moving as diligently as we can. Attorney Dan Ellis: Suggested that that Planning board elaborated on several different items they may want to have the board motion to authorize you or somebody else on the board put those recommendations in writing and forward them to the town board. That's probably the most efficient way to handle that. Otherwise, Alane or Jereme is going to be going through the minutes to summarize everything. Member Dale Taylor: I heard what Matt said about conditional permits being cumbersome, but my recollection when the super Walmart was being built, they went through the planning board for the town of Cortlandville, and that was cumbersome for Walmart too bad. You know, they wanted to berm out front they wanted a certain number of drainage issues taken care of and Walmart had to go through those hoops. Town Board Member Matthew Denniston: Much of the feedback we got is that from any potential developers or anybody that's interested in coming to the town of Virgil in developing property. I think seeing those restrictions and knowing that the process that they would have to go through, especially if it's particularly restrictive or cumbersome, turns people off to a lot of those opportunities. One of the things that we heard was that we're open to development, but then the backside of that is how do we accommodate that and how do we help facilitate that? Member Dale Taylor: So there's the school itself, what Steve has said about developing the school and having apartments in there and perhaps other amenities, small store, small medical facility, art classes, all that stuff, that sounds great. My concern is that we make these zoning changes, so that can happen. For discussion’s sake, Steve decides he doesn’t want to do it. I'm going to sell to somebody else. And now they say, Boy, we've got the zoning changes here and we really think that the fields would be a great place for 10 townhouses kind of like Poets Landing over and Dryden. Is the town of Virgil going to be happy with that kind of development on those fields that right now just recreational fields. And I don't know how many could fit there. But you could fit several housing units on there and still have a little small green might be very nice. You maybe you could say senior housing or low-income housing could go in there. Is the town board ready for that sort of thing to happen if Steve’s plans don't pan out? Town Board Member Matthew Denniston: Part of all the discussions that we had along the way was making sure that we avoid situations that you are talking about. I think the only real avenue that we have is to identify as clearly as possible, those users that we think would be productive in the Town of Virgil. Maybe it’s Steve Terwilliger with the school or another project that would benefit the town of Virgil. Member Dale Taylor: If you're going to say in the zoning, that we're going to allow multifamily housing in this area? A townhouse could be multifamily housing, and we have some existing at Greek Peak. The question is would you like them in The Hamlet? Perhaps if we had this floating zone a development could be on put on 392 across from Jereme Stiles. quite a stretch houses out through there, There's a field right on the other side of the cemetery. You know, we're talking about all these arterioles all the major highways that you have, you're close to the handle, you're close to the infrastructure. Are you okay with that? That's my question. Town Board Member Matthew Denniston: If were using the floating zone with different specific scenarios there's interest in some of that. Member Sylvia Cook: The other portion of that is density what if someone wants to develop the land across from Jereme into multifamily housing? What are the concerns there? Town Board Member Matthew Denniston: That's one part of the conversation that we didn’t dig into, and we'd welcome any feedback. This is a draft and there's opportunity for us to address that concern. I don't recall through our meetings that we got any feedback on those concerns. Deputy Supervisor Jereme Stiles: Each of these scenarios would be individually looked at. Attorney Dan Ellis: So, the regulatory scheme that the town ends up putting in place will specifically review each project that is proposed to ensure that the detriments of the community doesn't outweigh any benefits. Member Dale Taylor: So, the floating zone can just be plopped down to any given property? Attorney Dan Ellis: It could be limited to certain areas and zoning districts or even areas of the community, but it's not necessarily mapped on your zoning map. It's for situations where the community thinks that this type of use is going to be desirable in the future. It’s a mechanism that can be used by developers to see that there is a process that they can use. When a developer comes in, it acts as s change in the zoning on a specific parcel. The town looks to the uses that they think may be beneficial in the future based on public comment, but maybe we don't know exactly where that is at the time. Dale Taylor: So that ensures that you don't get a call that you've done spot zoning. Attorney Dan Ellis: This whole process ensures a more comprehensive planning process. Ellis said he was going to look to see if there are any floating zones in Cortland County, but there are some in place in New York State for the last 20-30 years. Chair Mark Baranello: I would expect that the evaluation and enforcement mechanism that is attached to the zoning of the floating zone option is where you would be able to evaluate the pros and cons of a proposed project. Attorney Dan Ellis: The regulatory scheme would lay out all the different considerations that a board should make when evaluating across project. Town Resident Steve Terwilliger: To address what Dale Taylor was saying, if a project is approved and 10 years down the road, it gets sold. Whoever buys it has got to come to the table, just like I would have to come to the table because it was approved based on it's the proposal at the time. If somebody wants to change that they would have come back to the governing board and go through the whole process. So, it's not a carte blanche. Like with the gas station that was approved a certain way. If something had to be changed, I would have had to come back to the board. Virgil Planning Board Meeting August 29, 2022 3 | Page Member Dale Taylor: But that was a conditional permit and you're saying that this is not going to be conditional. These are things are going to be by a right as opposed to having them go through a conditional permanent. Attorney Dan Ellis: If a specific project is approved, there's going to be conditions attached to that project. And if the property owner sells it 10 years down the road, they're playing by the same rules that are put in place under that approval. Town Board Member Matt Denniston: I think the goal for us is just to have these things kind of waited and addressed in the comprehensive plan so that we have a guide on making those decisions when the time comes. We're talking about the floating down the road. Member Dale Taylor: So, there wouldn't necessarily be use by right, but there'd be some oversight? Attorney Dan Ellis: The town board could take that action and say we think it's best to have us by right for multifamily in the town but that's not what's being proposed in the Comprehensive Plan. Member Dale Taylor: With these floating districts, will proposals to come to the planning board are going to go to the town board to make those decisions. what's allowed what's not Attorney Dan Ellis: That would be up to the town board to make that decision. Some towns passed a local law dealing with this issue. I know the conversations have been that the decision should be made by elected officials, because it’s affecting a real zoning change. Chair Mark Baranello: With the floating zone anytime you use it, in effect, you're changing the zoning law, which is under the purview of the elected body of the town board, by law. Member Dale Taylor: So they're there they end up being public hearings involved with any of these times that you're going to create a floating zone and the people would have input so whether it was good idea or not. It was stated, yes. Member Sara Hollenbeck: The more we look at this I realize that as much of this is driven by the school closing and looking for next steps there. And there's a focus on senior citizens in these proposed edits and children are mentioned. But for the most part, I feel like we’re addressing the loss of the resource of the school, that served primarily the youth of Virgil. There's not as much focus on young people and young families in these proposed edits. I appreciate Matt’s inclusion of emphasizing the development of recreational opportunities for children. The section on the Virgil Youth Commission was removed, because it no longer exists, however it’s been replaced by C.O.V.E. Maybe C.O.V.E. should be codified in this Law. The concert series has been a great resource for children and for young families. I'd like to see a little more focus on children's specifically because of the closing the school. I also think that while we're making changes to the comprehensive plan, one of the things that I would really like Virgil to do is encourage the participation of residents in local government. There's so many issues and we’re having a had a public hearing and nobody's sitting in this room. Or people that haven’t recently been part of one of the town board meetings. That's why people don't know that they're not supposed to have chickens in certain places and that's why people don't know XYZ because they're not involved in the town. Which is like crazy because it's such a small town and we're such a close-knit community. So, any steps that we could take to increase community participation in local government just helps everybody it makes your lives easier. It improves community cohesion. Town Board Member Matt Denniston: I did see the comments you provided. I really struggled with how to include them in the language for the comprehensive plan. Attorney Dan Ellis: It can be mentioned, but it's not a comprehensive plan issue, but it can be mentioned. Member Sara Hollenbeck: I understand that it's not a land use issue, but the Youth Commission wasn't really a land use either. The police are not a land use issue and they're mentioned in the comprehensive plan. So, by that line of logic, it seems to me like it could be done. Attorney Dan Ellis: It absolutely can be done. It's just tough to make a recommendation other than just plainly saying, we should encourage this. Member Sara Hollenbeck: Police Public Safety goal to protect the citizens and enforce the laws governing the people in their property in the town of Virgil. Chair Mark Baranello: There's something of an effect here with the loss of the school. The focus kind of comes off our younger children. You get a board like this and other boards in this town and the membership and I must question how many young children you know? How many parents with young children? And therefore, the emphasis comes off the people who could be the future of this community. Town Board Member Matt Denniston: It's one of the things we haven't addressed in the language. We've talked about all other uses, retail, medical, senior housing, those types of things. We haven't talked about land use that specifically encourages community participation such as youth sports or any of those types of potential opportunities. Town Resident Steve Terwilliger: I want to address what Sarah was talking about. When it comes to the youth, they are one of the main factors of why I'm getting involved in this. When I look back at when I was a member of the community back in the 80s. They had a very strong athletic program for kids, baseball, soccer, etc. I want to bring that back. That's the third element. Senior housing is one. It's more of amenity type resources that will be in the building. One of the things I really want to promote is organized sports. I want to work with C.O.V.E. and I've addressed this at their meetings. I want to redo the fields. I want to offer soccer and basketball and not only for children, but for adults as well. There used to be a men's league in Virgil. I don't think that happens anymore. Homer Performing Arts has a huge program for kids. music lessons, dance lessons and pottery. Probably more programs that even happened when the school was in session. Member Sara Hollenbeck: I would love is to see that in writing to make it easier for you to do just that. I just want it written down to say we as a community intend to make it easy for Steve to do this. Town Resident Steve Terwilliger: And that’s something that the town council could say we really liked this. I don’t think you can mandate someone to do that, but that is part of my plan to do that just for the school. I don't know about the other areas that are being considered. Member Dale Taylor: To Sara's point, there is language in here any number of times which says we want to encourage different things, encourage plant growth, or encourage conservation and encourage solar residential. So, we'd like to encourage youth activities. It would be easy to insert just a line or two that we want to encourage those things as opposed to not addressing it at all. If a proposal comes before the town board or the planning board, where the someone says, I'm going to redo the ball fields. That's additional credit in his favor, we will be more likely to say that's a good project, because he's going to do this. That's how you encourage those things to happen. Chair Mark Baranello: The original impetus, the idea comes from the comprehensive plan. And the way that idea is interpreted in real life is a list of potential activities or facilities that could be included in a use by conditional permit or use by right within this floating zone. And that would be for the town board to decide what those different things would be and certainly the planning board would be happy to offer some suggestions on that. It's starting to sound like we're coalescing around using the idea of a floating zone as a tool to handle potential projects that might come up under the zoning changes that are suggested in writing. The comprehensive plan Virgil Planning Board Meeting August 29, 2022 4 | Page changes should include these items. The floating zone should be used as a tool to evaluate the characteristics of projects that we would like to see in that type of zone. That should be something we put some thought into and get down on a recommendation. I would think we make a recommendation as to the evaluation and enforcement of the individual projects. Given that some will be labeled as a use by right and others will be labeled as a use under a conditional permit. And that at this point, I think we're thinking of the town board as being the evaluating body in that case of this floating Zone Tool. Member Dale Taylor: You have done a good job of summarizing the floating zone. In this instance, we're talking about housing, but the floating zone could also accommodate medical offices or offices of any sort or retail. In Homer they wanted to tear down the old Super Cream and put in a $1 store. The Homer residents went crazy, and they stopped it. I don't think that dollar store is not going to happen. Did their zoning allow that? Because they it seems like the residents and the town board members were really against it. Attorney Dan Ellis: My understanding is that their zoning permitted that use. Member Dale Taylor: So, was that a use by, right? Can you discriminate against the business like that. Could they have gotten sued for being discriminatory? Attorney Dan Ellis: They did. But it was it was just an allowable use in that zoning district. commercial retail. The town board would make sure that the whatever zoning that they put in place is crafted to allow only the users that would be beneficial, or park desired by the community. Member Dale Taylor: That can be a little subjective because some people may be happy with a dollar store and others not. So the town board's got to make those decisions. Attorney Dan Ellis: If you if you look at the code the recommendations is mostly encouraging small scale retail type of environment if you're talking about the region. Member Carole Lathrup: There are things in here about medical care, dental care and eye care in or near the hamlet. I liked Sara's thoughts on encouraging resources for youth activities, and adult community support for recreational activities. It looks comprehensive to me if that's what a comprehensive plan is supposed to look like. Now you're down, you're going to get down to the nitty gritty on defining what a floating zone may include, but not be exclusive of? Deputy Supervisor Stiles: I think it's a good idea to put that verbiage in there, saying we encourage those things. Member Carole Lathrup: You've alluded to it in some areas but putting emphasis on it would be good. Member Dale Taylor: How expansive or how limited can a floating zone be? Can you be down to an acre or is there a certain minimum size that a floating zone can be? Attorney Dan Ellis: The town board can prescribe it in any way that they think is best for the community? So yes, they can put a minimum lot size on it. The state has a model law, the model law wouldn’t work for Virgil, it would have been changed, but It's a good starting point. Floating zones have been around for a while. As long as the town can show that you've got the planning process to support a zoning change, that's the big thing. Member Karen Cushman: How far in The Hamlet or the town is the floating zone proposed to go? Can it be assigned anywhere in the town of Virgil? Attorney Dan Ellis: Technically, it could be town wide, or it could be limited to certain areas, but usually floating zones are town wide. There is also usually language in the zoning scheme that recommends certain areas like major arterials so that you're not getting out in the middle of the state wanting to build a 20-unit residential property. There's language incorporated into the zoning law that will make those recommendations so that the town board is guided by those ideas. Member Dale Taylor: When Matt and Sarah and I had our discussion session, we talked about wanting to do things along the major highways because they're built heavier for truck traffic or heavier volumes of traffic, and they're better maintained in the wintertime. It's safer for the residents than to be out in Timbuktu. Chair Mark Baranello: I'd like to look to the board for a couple of volunteers to come up with a recommendation letter to coalesce our views that we've had had here this evening. A lot of ideas have been thrown around here, could get a couple of volunteers from the board to have discussion among themselves to come up with a proposed recommendation letter representing the planning board’s ideas and that could be circulated among us and that could be presented to the town board. RESOLUTION #22-24 APPROVAL FOR SARA HOLLENBECK AND DALE TAYLOR TO WORK TOGETHER TO COMPILE A LETTER WITH THE PLANNINF BOARDS RECOMENATIONS: Sarah Hollenbeck volunteered to work with Dale Taylor, and they planned to have a draft for the next Town board meeting. They planned to circulate the draft to the planning board members for approval and have it ready for the next town board meeting. Member Carole Lathrup made a motion to authorize Sarah and Dale o come up with a summary of our comments from this evening and to include those in a memo to the town board regarding emphasis, any additions, or changes that we have discussed tonight, and they will bring that back to the planning board and have it ready for the town board by September 8. Chair Member Mark Baranello seconded the motion. Vote: Ayes Chairman Baranello, Members Lathrop, Hollenbeck and Taylor. Nays: None Motion Carried RESOLUTION #22-025 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES FROM JULY 25, 2022: Member Dale Taylor made a motion to approve the Planning Board minutes from July 25,2022 as presented. Member Mark Baranello seconded the motion. Vote: Ayes Baranello, Taylor, Hollenbeck, Lathrup and Cushman Nays: None DISCUSSION: Sara Hollenbeck had a couple of thoughts about the way our last meeting went. She couldn’t articulate for herself at the time, but she wanted to share her thoughts. One of the arguments that we made regarding the Chuckers was that people who live in a neighborhood residential zone shouldn't have to deal with livestock next door. The way that the zoning law is currently written, the question isn't about what zone you're in, it's about how much land you have. So, the board should be thinking about whether the area in question is large enough to comfortably house, feed and maintain the livestock. Raising 100 quail on a few acres is very different from raising 100 head of cattle. The board was using zones as an argument, but because of the way the law is written, the board should be looking at acreage. With no further business to discuss, Chairman Baranello asked for a motion adjourn the meeting at 8:03 PM. Member Dale Taylor motioned to adjourn. Member Sara Hollenbeck seconded the motion. Vote: Ayes Chairman Baranello, Members Lathrop, Hollenbeck and Taylor. Nays: None Motion Carried Respectfully Submitted by, Virgil Planning Board Meeting August 29, 2022 5 | Page Alane Van Donsel For Alane Van Donsel Planning Board Secretary • Draft of these minutes were attached to the upcoming planning board meetings agenda for 09/26/2022 and sent to the Planning Board Members, Town Attorney and CEO on Sept. 22, 2022 • APPROVED: 09-26-2022-AV