HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-11-12 BZA MinutesTown of Danby Board of Zoning Appeals
Minutes of Hearing and Meeting
November 12, 2019
PRESENT:
Lew Billington
Gary Bortz
Toby Dean
Earl Hicks (Chair)
Betsy Lamb
OTHER ATTENDEES:
Town Planner Jason Haremza
Town Attorney Guy Krogh
Town Councilperson Leslie Connors
Recording Secretary Alyssa de Villiers
Applicants David Jordan, Jed Jordan
1. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was opened at 7:02pm.
2. APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES
MOTION: Approve minutes from the October 22th meeting
Moved by Dean, seconded by Bortz
The motion passed.
In favor: Billington, Bortz, Dean, Lamb, Hicks
3. DELIBERATION OF THE APPEAL OF ZONING OFFICER INTERPRETATION
Appeal by David Jordan, Owner, of a Zoning Officer determination and interpretation dated August 2,
2019 regarding the proposed use of 1582 Danby Road (Tax Parcel 7.1-1-11) for a farm cidery tasting
room by Rogue Creek Cidery. The property is in the Low Density Residential Zone.
Chairman Hicks explained that this was the continuation of the October 22nd Board of Zoning Appeals
(BZA) meeting. The public hearing ended on the 22nd, and the Board was now taking information from that
meeting and information they had gathered to deliberate as a team with two consultants present, Town
Planner Jason Haremza and Town Attorney Guy Krogh. He noted that board member Betsy Lamb was
present this evening, but would only be in a listening role as she was not able to attend the October 22nd
1
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES
meeting. He said the goal was to affirm or reverse Code Officer Norman’s August 2nd findings regarding the
Jordans’ application for a permit. There would be no additional public testimony taken. The Board would be
considering the information available to Mr. Norman that he used to form his decision.
Board member Dean passed out a draft resolution that he had written. He said he tried to pin down the
points he saw as relevant. After giving supporting reasoning, the document concludes, “The Board of
Zoning Appeals finds that the Commercial Food Processing kitchen is in fact a necessary and appropriate
part of Commercial Farm Operations as defined in NYS AML (Agriculture and Markets Law).”
Because the draft resolution mentioned another cidery (South Hill Cider) operating with a kitchen in the
Town, Board member Bortz asked whether Dean was sure they have a commercially equipped and
approved kitchen. Dean answered that he believes it has to be for the Health Department and the
Department of Agriculture and Markets (Ag & Markets). Bortz asked about that cidery’s menu, and noted
that he is not sure a precedent has been set or not. He said that through his own research, he concluded
that a tasting room can have a kitchen in it, but it is not a requirement that it has one; Dean agreed. Bortz
expressed concern that any farm cidery that comes into the Town could have a kitchen and food
processing and a restaurant with no checks or balances, and said he has a problem with that. He asked
who would police whether it was food from a farm being served, and what stops someone from adding
more.
Hicks said that seemed to be part of Mr. Norman’s concerns—the scope and if the scope becomes too
large. The Board was obligated to find out what is allowed in the Zoning Ordinance. In the Low Density
Residential (LDR) zone, customary agriculture use is a principally permitted use, but what is customary.
Bortz said he saw a tasting room as a marketing extension of a farm stand by which the Jordans can
market their product, in this case a cider tasting room. The applicants are considering adding food to pair,
but it is still a food processing place in a non-ag district in a zone that says there is not any food processing
or restaurants allowed. He did not think that pickling and canning or food processing were farm operations,
rather they were secondary, value-added operations to help improve the product to sell and serve. Hicks
asked, haven’t farmers always been, and are more and more, creative and entrepreneurial? He would think
that, in terms of pickling, if a farmer is growing pickles, any creative way to add value and get them to
market makes sense. Bortz said the farm operation is to grow, prep, and bring to market. The preparation is
not taking the raw product and converting it into pickles, it would be taking the cucumbers and washing
them—these are two different scenarios. Dean said he was basing his thinking on the updated “Guidelines
for Review of Local Laws Affecting Direct Farm Marketing Activities,” in which Section D says, “The
Department considers these practices to be part of the farm operation as long as the products that are
prepared are predominantly composed of ingredients produced on the farm.” He took that to mean that a
kitchen capable of processing those things is a part of a farm operation, whereas a kitchen that could
prepare food for 150 people a night would be a restaurant; the size of the proposed kitchen is not a very
large space (Billington said 23’ x 12’).
2
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES
Board member Billington said that what he highlighted and made notes about were the same points that
Dean noted in his draft resolution. He said he was still stumbling on the impact of the Danby right to farm
law (Local Law No. 2 of 2009: “A Local Law Related to the Right to Engage in Agricultural Activity in the
Town of Danby”) on this and the fact that the entire area was an ag district except for little rectangles of
plots where houses are. He said Mr. Norman may have had a lot of it right but for the wrong interpretation.
Mr. Norman referenced in his August 2nd letter “the definition of an AML tasting room.” Billington could not
find a definition of an Ag & Markets tasting room anywhere, so that was the part in Mr. Norman’s
determination that he stuck on. He said he understood what Bortz was saying and had similar concerns,
but he disagreed with Bortz’s interpretation because even if you are marketing products at a farm stand,
you at least need a kitchen to do the honey. He said Former Town Planner Czamanske charged them to
only make a decision on an interpretation, but he thought it had reached a point where it had shoved them
into a use variance consideration. If they were to decide the interpretation was not entirely correct, then the
next logical thing would be making sure of the verbal promises (parties would not happen, tour buses would
not be rolling in, the parking lot would be small, the menu would not expand beyond that which can be
carried and eaten by hand). He pointed out that the Town says the BZA has a legitimate responsibility to
apply conditions and sanctions.
Attorney Krogh noted there was no application for a use variance before the Board. Normally an applicant
would apply for both the variance and the appeal to get both dealt with at once, but that did not happen
here. Planner Haremza said he concurred, and that if Mr. Norman’s decision was upheld, one possible path
forward would be a use variance. The applicants could also withdraw the application on which Mr. Noman’s
August 2nd decision was based and submit a new application with more information based on how the
project has potentially changed since this past summer. Then the new Zoning Officer (Mr. Haremza) would
make a determination based on the new application. In response to a comment from Bortz, Attorney Krogh
said that the Town Board, not the Planning Board, would have to change the zoning. In response to a
comment from Billington, Attorney Krogh said that now was the time to get into or out of an ag district. The
County looks at what is the underlying nature of the use; if they determine that it is more commercial than
agricultural, then you will not get in the ag district. The County makes that recommendation; they ask the
Town for input, give a formal recommendation to Ag & Markets, and then it gets approved at the State
level, and the new maps go out. If someone has a legitimate agricultural reason to be in an ag district, they
usually grant it. Haremza added that you can go into an ag district every year, but properties can only be
taken out every eight years.
Dean read from the Town’s “right to farm” law, Section 3(a), “Any person or persons may lawfully engage in
sound agricultural practices within the Town of Danby at any and all such times and all such locations as
are reasonable,” and noted it does not say anything about having to be in an ag district. Hicks added that
his interpretation of the right to farm law was to give agriculture defined credibility as being a priority in
Danby, and that its intention was also to align with Ag & Markets’ definition of agriculture. The Ag & Markets
Law just specifically relates to ag districts; technically a lot of the valuable information they have to consider
is only related to ag districts. Mr. David Jordan noted they had applied to be in an ag district. He said the
3
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES
decision is pending, but there is no reason it would not be included since it is connected to their main farm;
it is a branch facility that does not need to be contiguous property.
Mr. David Jordan said that in Mr. Norman’s August 2nd letter he noted that the Town has adopted Ag &
Markets’ broader definitions, and asked if that was going to be codified in the Town’s definition of
agricultural uses, as it would make the whole conversation simpler if the Town’s definition in the right to
farm law was expanded in line with the Ag & Markets Law. He asserted that the broader definition does
include food processing and anything that is related to added value to promote the sale of on-farm produce,
and that is why you are allowed to have a kitchen. He said it is more than the Webster definition of
agriculture, which is tillage—the State has defined it much more broadly. Planner Haremza said that there
are many things that need to be addressed in existing Town laws, but the group could not speculate about
what might change in the future or apply that retroactively to this application.
Attorney Krogh said that Danby’s right to farm law does two things: (1) it gives notice that Danby is a right
to farm community; promotion of agriculture is part of the Town’s master plan, which dovetails with the
comprehensive plan, and (2) it prevents nuisance lawsuits. As an affirmative regulation, it does not change
the Town’s land use laws in any meaningful way. Ag & Markets and the State Liquor Authority have no land
use authority. The Zoning Ordinance says “customary agricultural uses” are allowed. The question is, did
Mr. Norman apply the word “customary” appropriately in this case? Krogh said you can go by strict
construction, what did “customary” mean when the zoning was written, or believe the zoning is a living,
breathing thing, and that customary agriculture changes over time. He noted that this is not a farm market
or farm stand, it is a tasting room. Nothing meshes perfectly with how the Town’s zoning works, which is
why it went to interpretation. The Board was interpreting the menu and business plan submitted by the
Jordan’s attorney within the confines of the Town’s zoning—either Mr. Norman got it right, got it partially
right, or got it wrong. Billington asked Mr. Krogh about the definition of an Ag & Markets tasting room, to
which Krogh said he thought that may be a reference to the State Liquor Authority (SLA) definition.
Dean asked how the Board could arrive at something to vote on. Haremza said another option is the Board
could reopen the public hearing if they truly felt more information was necessary to obtain new materials as
part of the public record, including anything from the SLA on tasting rooms. Krogh noted that applicants
have the right to hear, contest, and respond to any new evidence. Bortz said the local law is the final say; it
trumps the State Liquor Authority, Ag & Markets Law, and the Health Department. Dean asked if it is the
SLA that suggests they have food available, to which Mr. David Jordan said yes. Bortz read briefly from the
SLA’s “What Can You Do As a Craft Beverage Manufacturer?”, which says, “…craft manufacturers are only
required to provide snacks, such as potato chips or pretzels…” He said that if local law says you cannot
have a restaurant, it does not mean that, because someone has approval from the SLA, they can have one.
Responding to Bortz, Mr. David Jordan said that this has been a point of contention since day one.
Because they introduced a kitchen of some capacity, it became a commercial operation and a restaurant,
but they have denied that. They are trying to have a minimum kitchen that meets the minimum standard as
reviewed and approved by the Department of Health and Ag & Markets. It is slightly larger than in a
4
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES
residence but comparable. He noted that Mr. Norman says “de minimus” food is fine, but they cannot have
a kitchen. He said it keeps coming back to the idea that they have a commercial operation. Ag & Markets
defines farm operations as commercial, but not in the sense of the way we use commercial for any other
enterprise; farming is a special kind of commercial that is allowed on farm property and does not need to be
in a commercial district. He reiterated that they do not want to be a restaurant and are a small operation.
He said that, according to Ag & Markets, of course they are allowed to process food as an agricultural
operation, so they need a kitchen.
Bortz read Number 3 from Former Planner Czamanske’s September 12th letter to the Planning Board,
which relates to the type of food service to be offered. Mr. David Jordan said that they had given a
response to the memo and asked the Board if they had received it. Bortz said he had a problem with the
menu. Based on what Mr. Norman had and why he denied things, he agrees with Mr. Norman’s letter.
Hicks said he would think that is a narrow interpretation, not a literal interpretation, of what Ag & Markets
says is allowable food. He said there is also an emphasis to promote other products in addition to cider that
the farm might be raising. Bortz asked about form, i.e. raw versus processed. Dean said that Ag & Markets
talked about offering food as a marketing tool for the products of the farm; he thought providing something
roasted to show that is what people can do with it would be related to the marketing of the products.
Attorney Krogh gave an extreme example of what Bortz brought up: in considering a chicken farm, having a
Frank Perdue processing and distribution center for the retail supermarkets on the east coast would not be
an agriculture use even though it is only processing chickens. Where does it go from direct, on-site sales
and promotion of farm-grown goods to something more? He noted that a menu was submitted as part of
the application. Bortz said one problem he was having was how to know where the food ingredients were
coming from. Dean said he thought the only enforcement was going to be the SLA, and only in terms of
alcohol. Bortz said that because it is not in an ag district, Ag & Markets law does not apply. Dean said the
Danby right to farm law is not restricted to ag districts as far as he saw. Bortz said he did not feel he was in
a position to start making what is acceptable, and Hicks said that what they decide is precedent.
Billington expressed that he wished they had the opportunity to talk with Mr. Norman. He asked if the
kitchen did not bother Mr. Norman as far as sterilizing equipment and processing honey, and it came down
to when it became a restaurant. Attorney Krogh said that, while he could not get into Mr. Norman’s head,
he generally agreed with that, and that the problem was not with the day-to-day processing of farm goods
for sale, the problem was with a bistro-style menu. Hicks confirmed with Bortz that a lot of Bortz’s concerns
were the nature of the offering and how processed it was. He asked if Bortz felt that processing was a
commercial endeavor unrelated to the fundamentals of a farm operation. Bortz said that he thought the
food service operation was not a farm-related operation. He thought the food processing was more a
manufacturing operation. Dean asked if Bortz was saying the food should not be processed on the
premises but should be done on the main farm. Bortz said he was thinking of the future too—how big will
the next cidery that comes in want to be.
5
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES
Dean read from the second-to-last paragraph of Mr. Norman’s August 2nd letter: “Thus, bistro or short-order
restaurant services, catering operations, events hosting, a live music venue with late night hours, and
commercial food production operations exceed these parameters and are non-allowed uses as currently
proposed.” His understanding was the applicants revised their appeal to eliminate late-night music and
catering operations and events hosting. He said it was confusing to him because can’t someone set up a
commercial kitchen in their home for the productions of something like cookies? Does the zoning prohibit
that? Haremza said he thought that would be a manufacturing use. Dean asked about the home occupation
concept. Attorney Krogh said that home operations pose the same problem as they have here, in that
historically home occupations were dentist, lawyers, doctors, seamstresses and the like, but now they have
expanded into many other fields. Haremza said that other municipalities address this by having a very
specific definition of what a home occupation is, generally providing a service rather than selling or
manufacturing goods. Dean said that did not seem to apply as this is relating to a farm operation.
In response to a question from Dean about what the Board was aiming for, Bortz said that he was aiming to
uphold Mr. Norman’s letter. He noted that it was not the end of the line for the Jordans. Planner Haremza
said the task at hand was to interpret the August 2nd letter based on the information submitted to Mr.
Norman prior to that. Information had come out subsequent to that, both from the applicant and research
the Board had done, and there is a new zoning officer, so if Mr. Norman’s decision was upheld, the Jordans
could either proceed with a use variance, which he would not necessarily advise, or resubmit with the new
information. Bortz asked about whether they could pursue a special permit, and the reasons against this
were discussed, including that the Planning Board was not comfortable with it. Krogh noted that as
applications move forward they can change, and a zoning interpretation that may have been correct or
incorrect under one set of facts might change. He said if the Board agreed with Mr. Norman’s interpretation
based on the material that was in front of him, and if the application had changed since then, the applicants
could submit to the new zoning officer and have the chance of not having to appeal anything.
Hicks asked about Scooby Steve’s ice cream (north of the site in question on 96B), and it was thought it
had an area variance for setbacks and parking. Dean said that got back to other precedence, and brought
up the other existing tasting room (South Hill Cider). Billington said they were in an ag district (which 1582
Danby Rd. is not), and Bortz noted they were also in the LDR zone. Dean described the food at South Hill
Cider, and Hicks said that South Hill Cider has a commercial kitchen. Dean noted that this will be an issue
that continues to come up in the Town.
Hicks said he took issue with the statement of “commercial food production operations.” The other things
listed (in that sentence) made sense to him, but he drew the line there. It implies it exceeds these
parameters. He said the Board had been trying to dissect what commercial food means and what can of
worms this opens up. Part of what the Jordans want this for is to process their honey. Where they are
bringing their honey to currently is valuable for the owners and for them, and their kitchen could be that for
other beekeepers in the area, which could lead to a larger operation. These are the Pandora’s box-type
considerations if they decide to allow it without being able to place any limits on it. Mr. David Jordan said he
thought the physical constraints of the space set the limits. He said that Ag & Markets is talking about
6
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES
small-scale food production; they are trying to promote activities on a farm and added value to promote
those products. When it becomes a major operation, that is a different enterprise, and it is hard to draw that
line, but the Jordans have a small facility. Bortz said someone else might come in with something larger the
next time. Haremza added that what the applicants were proposing was based on a given physical
description of the project, and should they, or any future owner of the property, wish to expand, that
expansion would come before the Town for review under the laws at that time. They cannot speculate what
the Town may do to amend the laws in the future; they might choose to put a size restriction on tasting
rooms, for example, but tonight was just looking at the August 2nd letter.
Dean said they should focus on coming up with a motion relating to the letter to vote on. Hicks noted that
they have to back it up with why, and Haremza said that if they choose to uphold it, they are agreeing with
Mr. Norman’s research and findings as written in the August 2nd letter, and if they choose to overturn his
decision, then they should back that up with rationale as to why they are overturning his determination. Mr.
David Jordan asked who wrote the draft resolution passed out at the beginning, and it was clarified that it
was Dean. Hicks said he liked that there is an option for the applicants to resubmit for clarity. He asked if
everyone on the Board is clear on what was originally proposed. Billington noted that it was prior to the
September 30th update of the “Guidelines for Review of Local Laws Affecting Direct Farm Marketing
Activities.”
Dean asked if it could be as simple as a motion saying the Board finds “Mr. Norman’s letter of 8/2/2019 is
the correct interpretation of local Danby zoning law that prohibits food processing in the Low Density zone.”
Billington said that might work because the determination was made before some of the information came
out. He noted that he read somewhere that said “we never expected farm stands and wine tasting,” and
that is what Bortz is talking about—who knows what the Town should expect. He asked about the
possibility of zoning changing and the timing of this. Planner Haremza said everyone wishes they had
perfect knowledge for every decision they are making, but that is not possible, so they are making a
decision to the best of their ability and the best knowledge they have at this time. He spoke to the re-
application process. He said he is aware of what the concerns are as expressed by the neighborhood, the
Planning Board, and raised before the BZA, and noted the Town now has the advantage of a full-time
planner.
Attorney Krogh read the second-to-last paragraph of Mr. Norman’s August 2nd letter, He said that when Mr.
Norman talked about commercial food production, he thought he was talking about something that goes
beyond farm food processing. Farm operations are commercial; to be a farm in an ag district you have to
meet a certain amount of sales and have a certain amount of acreage by definition. He thought that Mr.
Norman did not conclude the use was not allowed, but that the scope of what was proposed was not
allowed in the zoning. The menu was then discussed. Krogh said the tasting room is allowed, but beyond
the tasting room, was Mr. Norman right on what the Jordans submitted—does it go beyond what is
customary agricultural use and what the zoning allows. Reacting to the motion Dean had just suggested,
Bortz suggested taking the wording verbatim from Mr. Norman’s letter.
7
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES
Mr. David Jordan expressed frustration at being back at square one. He said he did not know what new
application he could prepare; they went to the Planning Board, they went to the BZA, and are going in a
circle. In response to a question, he said they have a building permit for a residence and have not yet
applied for a tasting room permit. Mr. Jed Jordan said the crux is who is going to define “commercial food
production,” and he said someone has to do it. Bortz answered that he did not feel qualified to make that
decision at this point in time and is trying to leave them an avenue. Hicks said that this does allow for minor
processing of food products. Jed Jordan said that one interpretation, then, is that Mr. Norman gave them
everything they wanted. They could start serving food according to his guidance. He said that at some point
there will need to be some agreement on the distinction between commercial food production and
agricultural food production, which is also commercial by definition. They are still in the gray area of what is
agricultural food production. He said he thought there was an opportunity for the Board to weigh in on that.
Is bottling honey or making apiary products agricultural? Some processing has to happen. Given that
cheesemaking is an intense processing method whereas pickling is relatively short, how is pickling
commercial but cheesemaking agricultural? He said somebody has to step in and say we stand for farming
and all of its things. He added that the questions that have come up about scope have already been
answered because Ag & Markets defines the scope of menus and foods that are processed and the Town’s
Zoning Ordinance defines the scope of how you impact your neighborhood and the capacity of the facility
and parking.
The voluntary site plan review by the Planning Board was discussed. Haremza pointed out that parking was
changed after Mr. Norman’s letter and said much of the Jordans’ work can be reused in a new application.
Mr. David Jordan said they are happy to get everyone in agreement on what they are doing, as they are
neighbors after all, but he did not know how to recast his application, everything had been said. Billington
said he wanted to have some recourse where the Town can say this is what you said, this is what we are
holding you to. They want to make sure when the next guy comes down the road they have recourse to say
you cannot use that as a precedent, this is how things are done in Danby. Haremza said he appreciates
how frustrating this is for the applicants, but it is important the Town follow the legal way to do things. Hicks
said it (the reapplication) is a matter of distilling the information based on what has been presented and
having heard some of the sensibilities. Attorney Krogh said that Mr. Norman based his decision on what the
Jordans proposed as written in their attorney’s letter (on July 14th). He thought he was hearing that what
was now proposed is different than what was summarized then. Since there have been changes, they
might result in a different determination if re-reviewed. He has not seen the changes, but they may be
material.
Bortz said the Board is setting policy by their resolution. Attorney Krogh said that they do set precedence
by determinations, more so with variances than zoning interpretations. If they interpreted the zoning to say
that tasting rooms with commercial kitchens are allowed, then tasting rooms with commercial kitchens
would be allowed until such time as the Town reverses that determination based on a different set of
circumstances, or a court overturns it, or the Town changes the zoning. Dean suggested a motion that does
not get into many specifics.
8
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES
9
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES
MOTION: The BZA finds that John Norman’s letter of 8/2/2019 is the correct interpretation of local
Danby zoning law based on materials submitted at that time.
Moved by Dean, seconded by Bortz
The motion passed.
In favor: Billington, Bortz, Hicks
Against: Dean
Abstain: Lamb
Planner Haremza said this does not come up very often, he appreciated that it was a hard job, and thanked
everybody for their service and the applicants for their patience. Hicks also thanked the applicants for their
patience and Mr. Krogh for coming.
4. CONSIDER APPEAL SUBMITTAL DEADLINES AND OTHER PROCEDURES
Haremza said he has prepared a schedule for 2020 laying out all the dates of the meetings. He plans to
include a deadline for those. Approximately three weeks prior to the hearing dates all materials will have to
be in to the Planner, and if an applicant does not meet the deadline, then they will be scheduled for the
following month. This gives the Board more ability to plan their schedules and know if there will be a
meeting in any given month.
5. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 9:08pm. (Moved by Billington, seconded by Bortz).
___________________________________________
Alyssa de Villiers – Recording Secretary