HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1986-03-10 TABLE OF CONTENTS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
MARCH 10, 1986
Page
APPEAL NO. 1676 Socony Mobil Oil Company 3
540 West State Street
Discussion 12
Decision 13
APPEAL NO. 1677 David and Flora (Gross) Sagan 15
701 N. Aurora Street
Decision 21
APPEAL NO. 1678 David and Flora (Gross) Sagan 23
705 N. Aurora Street
Discussion 29
Decision 31
APPEAL NO. 1679 Martha Wolga Kuckes 32
103 Spring Lane
" Discussion 35
" Decision 37
APPEAL NO. 1680 Elizabeth B. Mayer (Mayer School) 38
520 West Seneca Street
Board Discussion 58
" Decision 64
APPEAL No. 1681 Joseph Quigley 66
116 North Plain Street
IT
If
Decision 74
CERTIFICATION OF Recording Secretary 75
- —
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
CITY OF ITHACA
CITY COURT
MARCH 10, 1986
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Good evening . I would like to call to
order the March 10, 1986 meeting of the City of Ithaca Board
Cf Zoning Appeals. The Board operates under the provisions
of the Ithaca City Charter , the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, the
Ithaca Sign Ordinance and the Board 's own Rules and
Regulations. The members of the Board who are present
tonight are: STEWART SCHWAB
CHARLES WEAVER
HERMAN SIEVERDIMG
TRACY FARRELL
MICHAEL TOMLAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD
THOMAS D. HOARD, SECRETARY TO THE BOARD,
BUILDING COMMISSIONER & ZONING OFFICER .
BARBARA RUANE, RECORDING SECRETARY
ABSENT: HELEN JOHNSON
The Board will hear each case listed in the agendum. First
we will hear from the appellant and ask that he or she
present the arguments for the case as succinctly as possible
and then be available to answer questions from the Board .
We will then hear from those interested parties who are in
support of the application, followed by those who are
`
opposed to the application . I should note here that the '
^
-r-
considers " interested parties" to be persons who own
PAGE 1
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
property within two hundred feet of the property in question
or who live or work within two hundred feet of the property .
Thus the Board will not hear testimony from persons who do
not meet the definition of an interested party . While we do
not adhere to the strict rules of evidence, we do consider
this a quasi-judicial proceeding and we base our decisions
on the record . The record consists of the application
materials filed with the Building Department , the
correspondence relating to the cases as received by the
Building Department , the Planning and Development Board 's
findings and recommendations, if there are any and the
record of tonight 's hearing . Since a record is being made
of this hearing , it is essential that anyone who wants to be
heard come forward and speak directly into the microphone
which is right here in front of us, so that the comments can
be picked up by the tape recorder and , if we were in another
room I suppose we would be connected to a P.A. system, but
in any event we are not going to be broadcast so you are
going to have to speak rather loudly. Extraneous comments
from the audience will not be recorded and will therefore
not be considered by the Board in its deliberations on the .
case . We ask that everyone limit their comments to the
zoning issues of the case at hand and not comment on aspects
that are beyond the jurisdiction of this Board . After
everyone has been heard on a given case, the hearing on that
case will be closed and the Board will deliberate and reach
�
a decision. Once the hearing is closed , no further
PAGE 2 `
'
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
testimony will be taken and the audience is requested to
refrain from commenting during its deliberations. It takes
four votes to approve a motion to grant or deny a variance
or special permit and in rare cases where there is a tie
vote the variance or special permit is automatically denied .
Are there any questions out there about our procedure? That
being the case we will proceed .
SECRETARY HOARD: The first case is APPEAL NO. 1676 for 540
WEST STATE STREET:
Appeal of Socony Mobil Oil Company for an
area variance for existing deficiency
setbacks for one side yard and the rear yard
under Section 30~25, Columns 13 and 14, of
the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the
installation of larger gas pump island
canopies at 540 West State Street (Chuck's
Self Serve Mobil ! . The property is located
in a B-4 (Business) Use District in which the
existing use is permitted; however under
Sections 30.49 and 30.57 the appellant must '
first obtain an area variance for the '
existing deficiencies before a building
permit can be issued for construction of the '
new canopies.
MR. HINES: My name is Bob Hines, I represent the Mobil
Company and they are the owners of the property in ques�ion.
I have previously furnished the Department with a map of the
PAGE 3
_
BZA MINUTES
property . It fronts on West State and North Meadow Streets .
As a point of clarification, the building which is located
in the northeast corner is shown on a dotted frame in your
map . My understanding of the zoning law, the definitions,
are we have a front yard on West State Street and a front
yard on North Meadow Street . Since the number of the
property is identified as 540 West State, that makes the
north line the rear line . The side yard is that which
fronts Rocco Longo 's office on the east and perhaps the
North Meadow may or may not be a side line, I don' t know,
but in any event the building as it is presently located
hasn' t changed in a considerable number of years and over
ten years ago permission was sought and obtained for the
installation of the existing canopies over the pump islands
in essentially the locations as shown on your diagram. At
that time, with the property in its present condition, this
Board granted authority to install the pump island and
canopies and as approved - and I think that was 1973; I
looked at that about four times - I 've got a mental block -
it 's either ' 73 or '76 - but whenever it was, permission was
given to install two canopies and islands, twenty-five feet
by twenty-five feet . What is being requested here tonight
is to replace those because of changes in technology, with
two canopies, one of which is thirty feet , four inches by
thirty-four feet , eight inches, that is larger than the
existing one. The larger one would be the one fronting on '
North Meadow and the canopy on West State , twenty-four feet ,
PAGE 4
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86-
four
/10/86four inches by twenty-four feet , four inches, which is
slightly smaller than the existing canopies. The reason for
the request , isn' t just to install new canopies - that `s a
ancillary activity . The primary motivation is to install
new pump islands which facilitate faster dispensing gasoline
product . I show you a photograph of that island that has
been developed and now - I have more than - this isn' t quite
as neat - but it shows - what they do now is they have one
pump which dispenses all three gasoline products and from
their experience allows traffic to move a little faster and
it also dispenses the product a good deal faster . You can
get more activity from a single location than you could
before . What they intend to do in the installation of the
new pump , is to replace the canopy, which is part and parcel
of the pump island . So , therefore, it is practially
impossible to install the new pump , tear down the island ,
tear down the canopy, put a new pump in and replace it with
the same canopy . They want to put their new canopy in which
has a slightly different - and I think more attractive
design and we went to Syracuse to take a picture of one that
is in place. Now our request is for a single - that is a .
double - they are square - they have a different more .
attractive lighting facade . In other words, what you are
looking at there is a double island , this is just going to
be a single square island . Whatever deficiencies that are
existing with respect to this property have existed for a
considerable period of time and were considered by this
PAGE 5 '
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
Board in the previous application for permission to install
these canopies. We are not asking for anything which
enlarges or changes the non-conforming nature of this
property. We are not covering an excessive amount of area
or are we encroaching in any way beyond permissible limits.
What we are here for is because the building , which exists
and has existed - is too close to the side line. I 'd have
to defer to Mr . Hoard , I don' t know if we have two side
lines or one, but in any event , we don' t comply . How do you
interpret that , we have two?
SECRETARY HOARD: You have two front yards, one rear yard
and one side yard .
MR~ HINES: Okay. Well we are deficient on the side, there
is no question about that . My measurements look like the
rear is all right and in front , under this B4 area, we don' t
have any setback requirement . Whether or not the previous
ruling of this Board of Zoning Appeals of two years ago is
of any relevance to you, I can only say the same things that
were probably said at that time. There are practical
difficulties associated with complying . We would have to
move the building . There isn' t anything we can do or not do
^
with respect to the pump islands that will change the '
existing condition . We are not exacerbating it in any way . .
We are really coming in to ask you if we can replace the
pumps, pump islands and the canopies over them, with very
modest changes in size and because we are in violation, even .
though we have previously been given permission to do what
PAGE 6
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
we have, since we are changing and replacing , we have to
come back and ask again, but exactly the same reasons exist
now as would have existed ten years ago . We have no
practical way of reducing or changing the format . This is
an established and consumer convenient facility and it is at
a very busy intersection and Mobil has to maintain the
location of the pump islands in such a way that will promote
traffic flow and the canopies, of course, now with the self
service being a general mode of dispensing gasoline
products, people have to be sheltered from the rain - you
don' t have the attendant come out and pump your gasoline for
you . So those are the practical difficulties and special
conditions. I haven' t any additional facts to present to
you . As part of the record maybe the earlier BZA hearing
should be incorporated , do you have that file with your?
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes I do . It was in 1972.
MR. HINES: '72. I was wrong on both counts. Well I would
ask that the Board incorporate as part of its record the
proceedings as Mr . Hoard has them, of the previous
application by Mobil for permission to do what they have
now . And just to reiterate, what we are requesting is
essentially a replacement of a fourteen or fifteen year old
facility with a brand new facility which has little, if any,
practical impact and we think , as an additional item, will
look a little bit more attractive than the facility that is '
down there and certainly move traffic faster . If you have
any questions, I 'd be happy to entertain them.
PAGE 7
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
CHAIRMAN TQMLAN: Questions from members of the Board?
MR. WEAVER: Bob , do you know whether that portable sign is
still on the lot line down there?
MR. HINES: Yes it is. I went down and went all through the
property, the portable sign is located on a motor vehicle,
it is registered , I 'm not here to argue the merits of the
sign, I was advised that there have been proceedings about
that , I did read the file. Apparently the City Attorney has
ruled that as long as it is a registered vehicle and the
electrical department feels it 's properly grounded , or
whatever , it is okay , so the answer is yes, it is there, at
least it was there as of a few days ago when I was down
there .
MR. WEAVER: The reason for my question is that I am
interested in a conditional granting , you BEEN and maybe we
won' t have to be legal and illegal on the sign - it 's a
monstrous blight on the neighborhood .
MR~ HINES: I understand . Well it certainly attracts a lot
of attention. I represent Mobil Oil and not Chuck Kellogg
who is a fine man. Mobil Oil leases the facility to Chuck
Kellogg and has a limited amount of control over his '
activities as long as they ostensibly comply with the law.
^
I can only say that I am aware of what you are talking '
about . What you are doing is you are asking Mobil to
accomplish what the City has been unable to accomplish . I
haven ` t any authority to respond except that I am aware of
^
what you are talking about - I hope that you don' t do that ^
PAGE 8
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
to me but if you do , you do , I guess. I 'm not sure why
that ' s such a meritorious sign but Mr . Kellogg apparently
thinks it very important to his business, but in any event
Mobil does not control that activity, I 'm not saying that
they couldn' t control it at appropriate times but . . . off
the record I cculd be sympathetic with your position but as
an attorney for the Mobil Oil Company I can' t comment on
that - my consent to your . . .
MR. WEAVER: Well we are an agency of the City and it Just
seems to me that if we condition the granting of this
variance upon the permanent removal of that sign that Mobil
will have a permit to do all this work subject to the
removal of the sign so if they can' t figure out how to move
the sign. . .
MR. HIWES: Well I 'm sure that Mobil , in its infinite
wisdom, would figure out how to accomplish the result . I 'm
trying to reiterate, Mobil didn' t put the sign there and
Mobil doesn' t day to day operate that facility.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: When did the circular canopy become a
square canopy ? .
MR. HINES: It was never a circular canopy down there that I
know of. Circular canopies came into vogue with Mobil in
1966 and they have those in a number of places, one of which
is Triphammer Road , they have them any number of places
around the country . They are now going from where they have
circular to these rectangular canopies but in Ithaca, for
'
whatever reason, they installed these rectangular - I think
PAGE 9
'
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
they are square actually , canopies when they came in for
their permission some years ago - whereever that brochure is
- the circular - what you are looking at is a light - on
this diagram - is a florescent light ring - that 's the
circular one - up at Triphammer and when they get through
they will have a light ring inside and it looks - that 's the
photo . . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: In the worksheet , it looks like page 5 of
your application - there is a note at the end - unnecessary
procedure applying for building permit - no use variance -
and no area variance needed - what 's all this about?
MR. HINEEW Well we are not increasing a structure such that
it exceeds the permissible area of lot - we are still
thirty-five percent of the lot is covered and I think fifty
percent is permitted . In other words, I raise that because
we are going from twenty-five feet to thirty feet in the
canopy size but that still is well within the permitted lot '
coverage. If it exceeded fifty percent we would have to
come in and ask for something specifically but we are - my
calculations were thirty-five percent of the lot is covered
by structures and these are part of the structure which does
that but in any event - nothing that we are doing , per se,
needs a variance. The reason we need a variance is because
the structure, as it exists on the property , is too close to
the line, that is the building itself, so I suppose
everytime we have to make a change we have to come in here
PAGE 10
BZA MINUTES
and ask for it , even though the change in and of itself is
not (unintelligible) Now certainly - any other questions?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any other questions from members of the
Board? (none)
MR. HINES: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is there anyone else who would like to be
heard in favor of granting this variance? (no one) Is
there anyone out there who would like to speak in
opposition? (no one) That being the case , it is ours.
PAGE 11
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NUMBER 1676
MR. SIEVERDING: I just have a question on the signage. Is
it or isn' t it a sign? Does he have the right to park a
trailer there?
SECRETARY HOARD: The one on the Scout vehicle? Yes, as
long as it is on a vehicle - it is considered a sign on a
motor vehicle and therefore is not covered by the Sign
Ordinance .
MR. SIEVERDING: It is not covered?
SECRETARY HOARD: Right . Well it is loophole and it is a
loophole that . . . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You can drive a car through .
SECRETARY HOARD: But I mean it is the intention of. . .
MR. SIEVERDING: Yes, and there is no time restriction on
that?
SECRETARY HOARD: Right .,
MR. WEAVER: There is no law against our granting a .
conditional variance either .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAW; That 's true . Do I hear a motion?
MR. WEAVER: In fact it 's provided for .
PAGE 12
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
DECISION ON APPEAL NUMBER 1676 540 WEST STATE STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Socony
Mobil Oil Company for an area variance for existing
deficiency setbacks for one side yard and the rear yard to
permit the installation of larger gas pump island canopies
at 540 West State Street (Chuck 's Self Serve Mobil ) . The
decision of the Board was as follows:
MR. WEAVER: I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in Appeal Number 1676 conditioned upon permanent
removal of the old car and moveable letter sign that stands
on the north lot line. It would seem that only if that sign
or any other temporary sign be removed permanently from that
location will the resulting service station be in harmony
with the general purpose of the Ordinance.
There are special circumstances, that is on the existing
building, namely rear yard and side yard deficiencies that
could not be complied with without demolition of the '
building.
In all other respects the proposed improvement of the
property will improve its commercial value and improve the
nature of the business community in that corner . .
MS- FARRELL: I second the motion.
VOTE: 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT GRANTED W/CONDITION
FAGE 13
BZA MINUTES
MORE DISCUSSION OF APPEAL NO. 1676 AFTER THE MOTION WAS MADE
AND SECONDED BUT BEFORE THE VOTE WAS TAKEN:
MR. SCHWAB: I 'm a touch troubled about the sign - if the
sign is lawful , why we are trying to remove it . Personally
I totally agree with you, it is an ugly sign but -t..
City Founders, as it were, said that a sign like that on a
truck is okay . . .
MR. WEAVER: No , some smart attorney found a legal way to
avoid the intent of the law .
SECRETARY HOARD: Present company excepted .
MR. WEAVER: I said "some" smart attorney .
MR. SCHWAB: So a smart fir is going to figure out how
to outsmart the attorney .
MR. WEAVER: I 'm willing to .
MR. SCHWAB: It 's hard to argue with that I guess .
PAGE 14
- -
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
SECRETARY HOARD: Appeal No . 1677 for 701 NORTH AURORA
STREET:
Appeal of David and Flora Sagan for an area
variance under Section 30.34, Paragraph C of the
Zoning Ordinance to permit the existing fence at
701 Worth Aurora Street to remain as is. A
portion of the fence is within the corner visual
obstruction triangle which is prohibited by the
Zoning Ordinance.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAM: If you would begin by identifying
yourself?
MRS. SAGAN: I 'm Flora Sagan . .
MR. SAGAN: And I 'm David Sagan.
MRS. SAGAN: I had built the fence, I guess it was about
three years ago , and really not realizing it was going to be
in violation and was told about , I guess, three-quarters of
the way through , by one of the building inspectors who came
by, and we were sort of - everything was just about done,
the posts were sunk in concrete, there was just a small part
of the actual pickets to be put on and I really wanted this
fence, okay, which is not a real legal consideration but -
so what was suggested is that we appeal for a variance and -
realizing that it may or may not be relevant to the Board .
There was quite a change in my life and that 's the reason
there has been such a delay in appealing for the variance.
I brought a couple of photographs to show. The reason to
request the variance is that the visual obstruction for this
PAGE # 15
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
s street was in question and we have tried to do this with a
car and also by foot to see if it was - would be a real
problem and actually there seems to be more of a problem if
there is a truck or a large car parked by the parking sign
on the corner . We've done a lot of renovation on the house,
we've tried to really make it very attractive and I realize
that may not also come into question but the fence really
seems to be sort of the icing on the cake, as we saw it and
we didn` t - we considered the visibility before we tried to
do it , so it wouldn' t be a problem, and also we haven' t
planted anything within that that would really offer any
kind of obstruction - just low perennials.
MS. FARRELL: How much of the fence is in violation at the
corner?
MRS. SAGAW: I think about fifteen feet on each side - maybe
less than that .
MS~ FARRELL: It 's supposed to be twenty feet back from the
intersection - is the intersection this, (pointing to the
photo ) or is the intersection - where is the intersection?
SECRETARY HOARD: It is measured from the property line . . .
MS. FARRELL: From the corner? Oh , from the property line ,
not the sidewalk?
SECRETARY HOARD: The property line comes to a point , then
you measure back twenty feet on each side.
MS. FARRELL: So twenty feet back from here .
SECRETARY HOARD: Right .
PAGE # 16
BZA MINUTES
MRS. SAGAN: We were told at this point , by the Building
Inspector that we could - if we wanted to , we could cut that
point down to two feet high and it seemed like it would
really be quite ugly and defeat the purpose of our putting a
fence in. We also have had quite a problem with dogs and
things in the area, and this obviously was a help but we
wondered if it was a - you know - was a visual obstruction.
MR. SAGAN: One thing I would like to point out , I think you
can see it in this picture here, you are coming along this
street to the stop sign, is that , by the time you get down
here you can actually see, without any trouble . . . '
MRS~ SAGAN: You are beyond the fence.
MR. SAGAN: Basically you are beyond the fence - the cars .
coming back and forth - so that if you actually look at
it is not cause visibility problems to cars coming down -
stop at that stop sign. .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN; I would just caution you on that point
because you are not supposed to stop in front of the stop
sign, you are supposed to stop behind the stop sign .
MS. SAGAN: Stopping legally .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Stopping legally, it is supposed to be well
before the sidewalk . I think there is ten feet difference
between where the sidewalk crosswalk would cross and where
the stop line from the stop sign would be.
MR. SAGAN: Okay, I 'm sorry' . . '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Just a caution. . .
MR. SAGAN: Okay. I haven' t had any ticket so far .
PAGE # 17
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions from members of the
Board? The purpose was to keep out the dogs?
MRS. SAGAN: No , the purpose was to beautify the place
really . I mean, we could have put up a chain link fence or
something like that but we really thought it was. . .
MR~ SCHWAB: Would a chain link fence comply with the
requirement?
MRS. SAGAN: Actually I don' t think it would . . .
MS. FARRELL: If it was two feet tall .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I think the chief objection is just the
impenetrability of it . You've effectively come across the
problem by virtue of the impenetrability of the visual
affect that it is blocking , there is no question about that .
Any further questions?
MRS. SAGAN: So we' ll sit J.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That 's right , we' ll see if anybody else has
anything else to say. Is there anyone else who would like '
to i.-DEE! in favor of granting this variance? ( no one) Is
there anyone whowould like to speak in opposition? '
Question?
MR. SAGAN: There were two letters submitted . `
MS. FARRELL: Yes we have those in our hands.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Yes we have those. You get a chance to
come up again in a minute - just stay put .
SECRETARY HOARD: There is also one in the record from John
Dougherty, Superintendent ofPublic Works, it was written to
Ms. Gross. "Dear Ms. Gross. [That was her name at the
PAGE # 18
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
time] I am responding to your inquiry regarding the
installation of a picket fence around your house that
appears to be on City property. I have decided to
informally -B, you to keep the fence in its present
location with the understanding that this permission can be
revoked at any time for any reason. If the permission is
revoked , the removal of the fence must be at the expense of
the property owner . It is my understanding that the fence
is constructed in a manner that violates the zoning
ordinance and my permission cannot and does not supercede
any zoning requirements. I would suggest that your request
to keep this fence in place in the areas that violate the
zoning ordinances be directed to J--
(.J
d the reason that that is brought up is that
the City Traffic Engineer is under the Superintendent of
Public Works .
MR. SIEVERDING: So we can presume from that letter that the '
City Traffic Engineer has taken a look at the fence and
determined that there is no visual impediment? ^
CHAIRMAN TQMLAW: Can we presume that?
SECRETARY HOARD: I don' t think I can speak for the
Superintendent of Public Works .
'
MR. SIEVERDING: We can just make our own conclusions. '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Do we have a motion or futher discussion? ^
MS. FARRELL: I have a comment . It is awfully funny to look
at this worksheet that has all this stuff on it that has
nothing to do wit� what we are talking about .
PAGE # 19
_
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
SECRETARY HOARD: I started doing it . . . I realized . . .
MS. FARRELL: Sorry, Tom. T1-
i-,E.
ice idea but . . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: He`s got into a habit .
MS. FARRELL: A rut .
PAGE If 20
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
DECISION ON APPEAL NUMBER 1677 FOR 701 NORTH AURORA STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of David
and Flora Sagan for an area variance to permit the existing
fence at 701 North Aurora Street to remain as is. The
decision of the Board was as follows:
MR. SIEVERDING: I move that the Board grant the area vari-
ance requested in Appeal Number 1677.
MR. WEAVER: I second the motion.
PROPOSED FIND INGS OF FACT:
1 ) There are practical difficulties in removing the fence.
2) This decision is based on the letter from the Superin-
tendent of Public Works and presumes that the Traffic
Engineer has taken a look at the fence and determined
that there is no visual obstruction caused by same.
3) This exception observes the spirit of the Ordinance and
rather than change the character of the neighborhood it
adds to it.
VOTE: 3 YES; 2 NO; 1 ABSENT
As the motion failed to attain a minimum of four "Yes"
votes, the motion fails and the requested variance is
`
denied.
PAGE # 21
BZA MINUTES
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO. 1667 AFTER THE MOTION WAS MADE BUT
BEFORE THE VOTE WAS TAKEN:
MR. SCHWAB: I think I am going to vote against this
variance . It concerns me that this deals with safety as
opposed to some of the other ones and (unintelligible) read
that letter from the Public Works Superintendent so
generously. But it `s a (unintelligible) as most of them
are.
CHAIRMAN TQMLAN: That ` s "'A C"..?. I tend to agree with you,
Stu .
PAGE # 22
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/C6
SECRETARY HOARD: Appeal No. 1678 for 705 N. Aurora Street
Appeal of David and Flora Sagan for an area
variance for deficient setbacks for the front ,
side and rear yards under Section 30.25, Columns
11 , 12, and 14 of the Zoning Ordinance to permit
conversion of the existing garage at 705 North
Aurora Street for a "home office" and for storage.
The property is located in an R2b (Residential ,
one- and two-family dwelling) Use District in
which such private use of an accessory building is
permitted; however under Section 30~49 the
appellants must first obtain an area variance for
the setback deficiencies before a building permit
can be issued for the proposed conversion.
MRS. SAGAN: Well we own the house next door which this is
the garage to and actually one of the reasons we bought it
because we wanted to - our house is very nice and very
pretty but the upstairs is an apartment and we have really
no space for storage , meaning no basement , no tools, no sort
of area that we can have - sort of kids play and a work room
and that kind of situation and it -f:, right next to our
back yard and what we wanted to do is put a door leading
from the back yard to the garden and this way we could have
- my husband has a home computer and we can have kids - like
a playroom, because we are goin� to be having a family .
Also to be able to store tools and things in a dry situation .
because the house next door - the building - it 's in Fall
PAGE # 23
BZA MINUTES
Creek and we have no basement in our house, nor an attic ,
nor an extra room and the house next doorbasement is
very damp soit really seemed to be a perfect , you know,
perfect situation. Also it could be quiet in terms of, you
know, concentration, and that kind of thing , when we wanted
it to be but also be a space that could be, you know - kept
not so clean - in terms of, for playing , and that kind of
situation . And it doesn` t - there is no visibility to the
street either way - I mean - it wouldn' t interfere with the
tenants in any way , nor with any parking - existing parking .
It seems like it would have absolutely no impact on the
neighborhood at all .
CHAIRMAN TQMLAN: Questions from members of the Board?
MR. WEAVER: I have general question. The biggest question
ever , I guess . Why is this before us? They are not
enlarCing are they?
MRS. SAGAW: No . Not at all .
MR. WEAVER: They are going to improve it by putting a floor
in?
MRS. SAGAN: Yes, right , exactly and we are going to put in.
MR. WEAVER: And instead of garage doors you are going to
fill it in with windows or something?
MRS~ SAGAWz Well it 's going to have one window but it 's -
certainly the configuration is not going to change and -
actually the dsor is actually falling off now and is pretty
ugly. We are going to put one window in and then a door .
PAGE # 24
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
CHAIRMAN TQMLAW: Looking at the worksheet , Charlie, is it
basically the rear yard , column 14, that 's the only
difference that I see.
MR~ WEAVER: But has there been a plan for those repairs and
improvements submitted - is there a price on this that makes
it a piece of work that brings it c.0 us?
`
SECRETARY HOARD: Well I think the fact that the home office '
storage is no problem, obviously that would be in an '
accessory structure, the home office - I assume that means -
it includes the - they own other properties and so it would '
be not a home office in the sense that , you know, like you
write letters to friends or something , pay your taxes but
that you would also do the work for the other properties. .
MR~ WEAVER: How many properties do you manage?
MRS. SAGAN: Wt..;
have four houses.
MR. WEAVER: Some in other neighborhoods? .
MRS~ SAGAN: Just one - just two others - just those two but
what we really wanted - I think what was explained to me -
the reason for the variance was it was going to become a ^
structure not just for storage, not an accessory structure. '
If we were going to use it . . .
MR. WEAVER: And the storage would not necessarily be for
those premises - it might be. . .
MRS. SAGAW: Yes, no - it would be . It would be for those
premises. We have no place to put , like winter clothes,
boxes of clothes and that kind of thing - we have. . . '
PAGE # 25
INSERT IN LEGAL NOTICES: THURSDAY, 7/31/86 b THURSDAY, 8/7/86 PAGE 2
APPEAL NO. 1710 319 WEST BUFFALO STREET
Appeal of Margaret M. Rumsey for an area variance for deficient off-street
parking, lot width and deficient setbacks for the front yard and both side
yards, under Section 30.49, Columns 4, 7, 11 , 12 and 13, of the Zoning
Ordinance, to permit conversion of the single-family house at 319 West
Buffalo Street to a two-family dwelling. The property is located in an R-2b
(One- or Two-family Dwelling) Use District in which the proposed use is
permitted; however under Section 30.57 of the Zoning Ordinance the owner
must first obtain an area variance for the listed deficiencies before a
Building Permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the proposed
conversion.
APPEAL NO. 1711 139 CODDINGTON ROAD
Appeal of Ken Ash for an area variance for deficient setback for the front
yard under Section 30.49, Column 11 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit
conversion of the single-family house at 139 Coddington Road to a two-family
dwelling. The property is located in an R-2a (One- or Two-Family Dwelling)
Use District in which the proposed use is permitted; however under Section
.30.57 of the Zoning Ordinance the owner must first obtain an area variance
for the deficient front yard setback before a Building Permit or Certificate
of Occupancy can be issued for the proposed conversion.
Thomas D. Hoard
Building Commissioner and
Zoning Officer
�o1i tT�
oq.....
RATED
CITY OF ITHACA
108 EAST GREEN STREET
ITHACA, NEW YORK 14850
BUILDING DEPARTMENT TELEPHONE: 272-1713
July 18, 1986 CODE 607
INSERT IN LEGAL NOTICES: THURSDAY, JULY 31 , 1986 & THURSDAY, AUGUST 7, 1986
CITY OF ITHACA BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS: Notice is hereby given pursuant
to Section 30.58, Paragraph C of the Zoning Ordinance of the City of Ithaca,
that a public hearing will be held Monday, August 11 , 1986 at 7:00 P.M. in
the Hall of Justice building, fourth floor, 120 E. Clinton Street, Ithaca,
New York to consider the following appeals:
APPEAL NO. 1678 705 N. AURORA STREET
al of David and Flora Sagan for an area variance for deficient setbacks
for the front, side and rear yards under Section 30.25, Columns 11 , 12, and
14 of the Zoning Ordinance to permit conversion of the existing garage at,
705 North Aurora Street for a "home office" and for storage. The property
is located in an R2b (Residential , one- and two-family dwelling) Use District
in which such private use of an accessory building is permitted; however
under Section 30.49 the appellants must first obtain an area variance for
the setback deficiencies before a building permit can be issued for the
proposed conversion. This appeal was heard by the Board at its March 10,
1986 meeting and a variance granted; it is being reheard in response to a
petition from neighbors which states that they did not receive proper
notification. The rehearing was originally scheduled for the July 7 , 1986
meeting of the Board, but was held over at the appellants' request due to
a lack of a full Board.
APPEAL NO. 1709 210-212 COLUMBIA STREET
Appeal of Michael A. Simmons for an area variance for deficient setbacks
for the front yard and one side yard, under Section 30.49, Columns 11 and
12 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit conversion of the single-family house
at 210-212 Columbia Street to a two-family dwelling. The property is located
in an 112a (one- or two-family dwelling) Use District in which the proposed
use is permitted; however under Section 30.57 of the Zoning Ordinance the
owner must first obtain an area variance for the listed deficiencies before
a Building Permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the proposed
conversion.
.An Equal Opportunity Employer with an AllirmativP Action Proqram"
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
MR. SIEVERDING: Storage T the house in which you are
living?
MRS~ SAGAN: Right , exactly . Just good , dry storage.
MS. FARRELL: .11 not like a home occupation office, then,
its more like . . .
MR. SAGAN: No , it 's absc'lutely . . . .
MR. SCHWAB: It 's more like a den.
MRS. SAGAN: Yes that 's what we were really - that 's more
the situation . . .
MR. SCHWAB: But is there a distinction there , Tom?
MRS. SAGAN: It 's like we don' t have a basement so we are
going to - that ' s what we want .
MR. SCHWAB: Between an office and a private den out in the
garage. What if I wanted to put my TV room ;:i in the
garage?
SECRETARY HOARD: (UNINTELLIGIBLE ) use from the primary
structure, which would be the house to an accessory
structure - what was the term you used before?
MS. FARRELL: -71 call ?
MR. SCHWAB: The judgement call . A line more nice than
obvious.
MR~ SIEVERDING: But are the rental or the management of
your existing investment properties, or the photography '
business - none of that stuff is going to be conducted out
of this garage?
MRS~ SAGAN: No , no , this is just really for our enjoyment
and for my husband to have his computer - you know -
PAGE # 26
BZA MINUTES
something like that type of thing and it really has been a
very big problem at our house. The house looks enormous and
people probably laugh but it is a lot of little rooms with
very little closet space so we really - and we've had things
stored out there and its just gotten wet , muddy and damp and
we really have had things ruined because it is a dirt floor .
We've no space that can be really messy - that `s the thing .
MR. SAGAN: Right now -'I is being used for storage for like
garden tools and stuff like that because of an addition that
was put on to 705 North Aurora before we owned it - we just
bought it this year - the driveway is really a bit too small
to drive cars past - when we got it , it was being used for
storage . . .
MRS. SAGAN: In other words we really can' t use it as a
garage per se, it is not like we are changing the real
useage from a garage - it never - that we know of - that it
has been used for o/'e so . . .
MS. FARRELL: You can' t use it for a garage?
MRS~ SAGAN: We can' t get a car in there. . .
MR. SAGAN: Because of the addition. .
MS. FARRELL: I know, I was looking at it , I thought , it
V:ind of goes over there . . . .
MRS. SAGAN: It is very , very narrow. Ynu see there was a
sort of "bump out" put on the house - we were told by the
person that we bought the house from, in the thirties and
that is why it
PAGE # 27
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Thanks. Is there
anyone else who would like to speak in favor of granting
this variance? (no one) Is there anyone who would like to
speak in opposition? (no one) That being the case. . . it is
ours.
`
PAGE # 28
BZA MINUTES
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO. 1678 705 N. AURORA STREET
MR. SCHWAB: Clarify for me, Tom, one more bit , is it fine
for say me with no business or anything to put - to make the
garage habitable - so you can put a sofa in there and just
kind of lounge - the kids playroom?
SECRETARY HOARD: You wouldn' t dare do that in Bryant Park .
MR. SCHWAB: Or dnes that require a variance because the
garage is - many garages are too c] ose to the lot line?
SECRETARY HOARD: The Ordinance isn' t clear on what is
purely accessory and what is taking a primary use and
putting it into a secondary structure . It is the kind of
thing that we get complaints about when somebody does it . I
think we may have referred them here because we are getting
a little gun shy after awhile . Neighbors see the lights on
in the garage late at night and they call us that people are
living in there and . . .
MR. SCHWAB: So there is some line but the line is between a
living or habitable structure and something of car or tools?
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes but an accessory structure is usually
justthings that - you put your car in your garage . . .
MR. SCHWAB: People aren' t going to stay in for awhile. �
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That `s right .
MG. FARRELL: You stay in your garage for two hours does '
that
`
CHAIRMAN TOMLAM: Well the question would be how finished , I '
suppose, whether the intent is to - certainly if you start '
PAGE # 29
' ^~--- ~-------- --�
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
making a great deal of money out of your garage, one begins
to wonder .
MS~ FARRELL: Printing press . . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Yes a little printing press, you could
start a little business - one wonders how long it becomes
accessory .
MR~ SCHWAB: Well even if you get into money , you know, if
you are going to watch TV there for two or three hours a day
it doesn' t strike me as a garage anymore, or any accessory .
But I 'm no closer to a motion, either way .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well , maybe somebody c'n the other side of
the table is closer to a motion.
MR. WEAVER: Stewart did I understand you to say that you
are notready for a motion?
MR~ SCHWAB: Well , I 'm ready to in one, ...ot to make one,
either way .
MR. WEAVER: Oh , I see .
PAGE # 30
� . .
^ BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1678 705 M. AURORA STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Flora
and David Sagan for an area variance to permit conversion of
the existing garage at 705 North Aurora Street for a "home
office" and for storage. The decision of the Board was as
follows:
MR. WEAVER: I move that the Board grant the area vari-
ance requested in Appeal Number 1678.
MS. FARRELL: I second the motion.
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT:
1 ) The deficiencies are not subject to correction without
demolishing the building .
2) The use proposed seems to be completely compatible with
the residential neighborhood in which it exists.
3} The granting of this will not exacerbate any existing
conditions.
4> This does not increase the space used in the property'
VOTE: 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT AREA VARIANCE GRANTED
PAGE # 31
___
BZA MINUTES
SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is Appeal No . 1679 for 103
Spring Lane:
Appeal of Martha Wolga for an area variance
for deficient lot area, excessive lot
coverage, and deficient setbacks for one side
yard and the rear yard , under Section 30 .25,
Columns 6, 10, 12, and 14 of the Zoning
Ordinance, to permit the addition of a solar
room to the south side of the single family
dwelling at 103 Spring Lane . The property is
located in an R3a (Multiple Dwelling ) Use
District in which the proposed use is
permitted ; however under Section 30 . 49 the
appellant must first obtain an area variance
for the cited deficiencies before a building
permit can be issued for the addition. The
appellant did receive an area variance for an
addition in July 1985; however that addition '
was not constructed and the one now proposed
is of a different configuration.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Welcome again.
MRS. KUCKES: I 'm Martha Kuckes, this is my husband Arthur .
As you know, you granted us a variance a few months ago .
The variance at that time was for a room that would measure '
6 x 20 feet and once we had the variance and got down to the
nitty gritty of deciding what we would actually build , we '
PAGE 32
BZA MINUTES
decided on a four seasons greenhouse which happens to
measure 8-1/2 feet by 18'4" . (unintelligible)
MS. FARRELL: Say that again? A difference of what?
MRS. KUCKES: Twenty two square feet .
MS. FARRELL: Oh , between th1s one and the last one?
MRS. KUCKES: Right . This one is a little wider and a
little shorter than the previous C. But previously I �ad '
somewhat arbitrarily picked that figure, 6 by 20, I hadn' t '
looked into any structures at that point . '
^
MR. KUCKES: It is not 8-1/2, it is 8'2" , isn' t it? '
MRS~ KUCKES:
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions?
'
MR. SCHWAB: So it is basically the same thing? ^
MRS. KUCKES: Right '
MR. WEAVER: It is a couple of feet nearer the neighbor .
MRS. KUCKES: Yes it is'
MR. SCHWAB: Nearer the back neighbor . '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Are there any smaller sized prefab units? .
MRS. KUCKES:
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Are there any that just happen
MRS. KUCKES: No, it was 5 something .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Five , something?
MR. KUCKES:
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN:
MR. KUCKES: Well , multiple by 3 feet I believe' .
`
MRS. KUCKES: So by 18'4" , the same length . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: By 18^4" . .
PAGE 33
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
MRS. KUCKES: The present neighbors look forward to our
building this room.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAW: Further questions from members of the
Board? (none) Thank you. Is there anyone else who would
like to speak in favor of the granting of this variance?
(no one) Is there anyone who would like to speak in
opposition? (no one) That being the case, it is ours.
`
`
PAGE 34
- --'
BZA MINUTES
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO. 1679 103 SPRING LANE
MR. SCHWAB: Is the rear lot line - let me see if I
understand this, I see no change in the rear yard
SECRETARY HOARD: I hope you aren' t going to ask these
questions . . .
MR~ SCHWAB: I see no change in the rear yard , it seems
wrong?
MS. FARRELL: Just the percent of lot cc'verage, isn' t it?
Basically it increases thirty percent . . .
MR~ SCHWAB: But what about the rear yard depth?
SECRETARY HOARD: Well , this is a side yard - you see the
problem is, it is not on a City street . What I did , I
forgot what I did . . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Yes, tell us what you did .
SECRETARY HOARD: I chose one combination . . .
MR. SCHWAB: So , what is the front yard?
SECRETARY HOARD: I chose Spring Lane as the front yard .
MS. FARRELL: Which the house faces Cl
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes. So the addition would be in the side
yaro . . .
MR~ SCHWAB: Oh , the side yard .
SECRETARY HOARD: As you face the building , standing on '
Spring Lane .
MR. SCHWAB: So it is still okay?
MR. WEAVER: And that is the one you have listed under '
Column 12 on the worksheet?
PAGE 35 .
' —
D MINUTES
SECRETARY HOARD: No , Column 13, it is the one that got
smaller .
MR. SCHWAB: It has gone from 12'5 to 6'5.
MS. FARRELL: But it is still okay?
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes.
MR. SCHWAB: It is 6 feet closer , but okay.
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes. Did you follow that Chief?
MR. WEAVER: Most of it .
PAGE 36
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1679 103 SPRING LANE
The Bord of Zoning Appeals considered the app
aeal of Martha
Wolga Kuckes for an area variance to permit the addition of
a solar room to the south side of the single family dwelling
at 103 Spring Lane. The decision of the Board was as
follows:
MS. FARRELL: I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in Appeal No. 1679.
MR. SIEVERDING: I second the motion.
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT:
1 ) There would be a practical difficulty in meeting re-
quirements of lot area, percentage of lot coverage,
side yard and rear yard setbacks that could only be
solved by taking pieces of the building off.
2) The deficiencies in lot area, side yard and rear yard
setbacks would not be exacerbated by the proposed
change.
3) The percent of lot coverage would be increased by a
very small amount, approximately 3%.
4) The proposed change seems to maintain the character of
the neighborhood .
VOTE: 4 YES; 1 NO; 1 ABSENT AREA VARIANCE GRANTED
`
PAGE 37 .
`
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is APPEAL NO. 1680 FOR 520
WEST SENECA STREET:
Appeal of Elizabeth B. Mayer for an area
variance for a deficient front yard setback
under Section 30.25, Column 11 , and a Special
Permit for a private school under Section
30.26, Paragraph C of the Zoning Ordinance,
to permit the conversion of the existing
church at 520 West Seneca Street to a private
school for prekindergarden through eighth
grade students. The property is located in
both R3b and R2b (Residential ) Use Districts
in which the proposed use is permitted only .
with a special permit; therefore the '
appellant must obtain both a special permit .
for the school and an area variance for the .
deficient front yard before a building permit .
or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for .
the conversion. .
MR. BUYQUCOS: Members of the Board , this is Mrs. Elizabeth
Mayer , who operates the school and this is Professor James
Mayer , Professor of Material Science at Cornell and he is
sort of a power , in some degree, behind this
(unintelligible) which is occupied by Mrs. Mayer . You know
the o
Cr of this application - this petitin - very
briefly, this building has been in existence - we have been
told - at le�st eighty years. In 1899 the Ladies Union of
PAGE 38
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
`
Benevolent Society , a charitable society, which is still in
existence, conveyed this property to the Ithaca Children`s '
Home. The property was operated by the Ithaca Children's '
Home for - as a home for children - and we believe that
prior to that it was also operated for the same purpose. In '
about 1952 - 53, this property was sold to - transferred to
the Assembly of God - a church - and since that time it has
been operated as a church . The building itself is located
in a 3b district - that building fronts on Seneca Street .
The back yard is kept open - that is the part that is in a .
2b district . The function of the school , as I say , the .
building has been in its present location since - well at
least eighty years and I think we could probably find an
earlier date. Mrs . Mayer , if you wish , can explain very
briefly the operation of the school , if you want her to she '
will do that .
MRS. MAYER: Briefly . We are an independent , not for profit '
elementary school for prekindergarden through grade 8, we '
stress exellence in academics, with tender , loving '
individual care for the children. We began - we are in our '
fourth year of operation - we opened our first fall with
thirteen students - we now have fifty-nine students. We are '
chartered by the New York State, which means that we have an '
equivalency of curriculum as a public school in Ithaca . We
are also associated with the New York State Association of
Independent Schools and we are due for an extensive �
' evaluation by that Organization. It is a little - trying to
PAGE 39
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
Wt people of Ithaca know that we are serious with our
school and not just something that has popped up out of the
wild blue. Strong emphasis on reading , writing , math ,
foreign languages are offered - or are required for all
children ages three and above. A good strong music program
and this year , because of the size of the classes we have a
P.E. instructor as well , and have added swimming to the
program. We consist of a group of dedicated teachers who
are not only certified but more importantly , enjoy working
with children and they put in a great deal of time doing
this. School day begins at 8:30 and cfficially ends at 2 : 45
but because we meet the needs of the parents, as well as the
children, we have some children arriving as early as 7:30 ;
this morning as early as 7: 15. Sc it is a staggered hour as
far as that goes, we have a number of children who arrive
between 8:00 and 8: 30. About ten percent of the children
leave at noon because they are in the prekindergarden
program, then we have those who leave at 2:45 and again ,
almost half of the school population remains in an after
school program - again, trying to meet the needs of the
children and the parents . And those children are picked up
at various hours from 3:00 to 5:00, it is not all one big
group going at the same time .
MR. BUYOUC8S: Excuse me just a minute, how many teachers do
you have?
MRS. MAYER: I have six teachers.
PAGE 40
BZA MINUTES
MR. BUYQUCOS: And how long have you operated a school in
Ithaca?
MRS. MAYER: This is our fourth year .
MR. BUYOUCOS: And before that , you were in California?
MRS. MAYER: No , I was two years at the State University in
Cortland as a Associate Professor in Education and then in
California as Curriculum Coordinator fcr kindergarden
through grade nine and also fourth grade teacher .
MS. FARRELL: I have a question. You have six employees
now, your projected is to be eight and you have fifty-seven
I now and you project eventually ninety? Is that
what you can hold there, I mean, is that the maximum amount
that . . .
MRS. MAYER: No we could hold more than that but I do not
want it to grow to an oversize because I want to keep the
classrooms small - class sizes small .
MR. SIEVERDING: The total staff is eight?
MS. FARRE0L: It will be eight , it is six now.
MR~ SIEVERDING: It wi1l be eight , okay , that 's teachers as
well as whatever kind sf support staff you have?
MRS. MAYER: Yes.
MR. SIEVERDING: And the students who are going to be going
to school here, how are they going to arrive?
MRS~ MAYER: It states here that they can come by foot ,
automobile or buses. Very few of our children actually
walk . They are about ten right now who arrive by school
buses and the rest are by automobiles .
PAGE 41
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
MR. SIEVERDING: And is that generally - is there a peak
time when all these kids are dropped off, or is that
staggered over a period of time?
MRS. MAYER: It is staggered , it comes, as I say, some
arrive between 7:30 and 8:00 - we always know who those
children are and we are ready to meet them and we do greet
each child or each car load , bus loadspeak .
MR. SIEVERDING: So does class begin at a set time?
MRS. MAYER:
MR~ SIEVERDING: 8:30 every morning . So basically we are
talking all these kids arriving between 7:30 and 8:30 in the
morning?
MR. BUYQUCQ8: Thatis correct . .
MRS. MAYER: That is right . .
MR. BUYQUCOS: Would you please emphasize that last point . .
There is always some one of the staff who is in attendance. '
MRS. MAYER: Yes, someone is always at the curb to meet the
children, to help them out of the car so that parents don' t
- I believe in letting parents get on their way and working '
with the children, so we do greet them and then there is
somebody inside who actually walks them down the hallway to
their . . .
MR~ BUYOUCQS; But you escort them from the automobile or '
the bus . . . .
MRS. MAYER: To the
MR. BUYOUCOSc To the door .
PAGE 42
BZA MINUTES
MR. SIEVERDING: And a lot of these kids arrive with their
own families, I mean there is not , is it correct to assume
that once you are at full capacity , we are talking about
eighty cars coming in that hour to drop in kids off?
MRS. MAYER: No , they are bussed in also , by the local
school district .
MR. SIEVERDING: Right you had mentioned that there are
about ten students who take busses?
MRS. MAYER Right now, yes. Next year there will be - there
could '17' more on the Ithaca bus, more on the Trumansburg bus
because they are five years old , and when they reach
kindergarden age they can come by the bus. Before that they
cannot be bussed .
MR. BUYOUCOS; And what is the traffic pattern? They come
down Seneca Street , which is one way . . .
MRS. MAYER: My plan is that we would - I want them
will have a traffic pattern where they actually drop the
children off by arriving at Seneca, I do not want to use the
drive oubecause I tI-
Iink that is tno dangerous and
parents usually agree to the fact that if you give them a
set pattern, they will abide by it .
MS. FARRELL: I have a question about eligibility for using
city busses, I mean. . .
MRS. MAYER: For school busses?
MS. FARRELL:
MRS. MAYER: Good old Robert Kennedy put that in the books a i
numbeI of years ago . . .
PAGE 43 ,
BZA MINUTES
MS. FARRELL: So private schools . . .
MRS. MAYER: That 's right , private schools, within a certain
distance of the school , qualify . I don' t do anything about
that , the parents have to arrange that with the local school
and we actually have two outlying districts that will even
bus our - the children to our school when they are not in
session, but I have asked them not to do so , I think it is
foolish to abuse the privilege. They are not required to do
so when they are not in session. We have a very good
rapport with all of these people.
MS. FARRELL: But - with the School District busses, you
would assume with those , they were just coming at the school
time, those wouldn' t apply to the kids who are coming for
the preschool programs and things like that , those would
need to be brought by parents. . . what percentage of your
students are in those programs? Not the preschool , I mean
the before school programs.
MRS. MAYER: Not too many - it is not really a before school
program, parents arrange - they will say they have a meeting
+hat they have to go to at a certain hour and could they
drop off their children or we have medical doctors who have
operations on Thursdays so they are required to be at the
hospital at an early hour , but they always arrange for that
in advance. I don' t know, it is eight to ten children.
MR. BUYOUCOS: It is for the convenience of the parents. It
is not your requirement .
PAGE 44 '
`
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
MRS. MAYER: Right and so the child is not left alone
wondering what to do next .
MR. BUYOUCOS: And it is true, isn' t it , that if no busses
were available then that the parents wc'uld bring their
children in their own cars.
MRS. MAYER: Yes'
MR. WEAVER: While we are understanding private schools,
does this building have to meet any schoo] standards?
MRS. MAYER: According to the people at New York State
w
Association, we meet our local standards and that 's hat we
are here to find out , what we need to meet .
MR. WEAVER: I don' t know anything about building standards.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: There is a difference between building and
zoning .
MR~ MAYER: We have to meet the Ithaca and State Building
Code which we discussed with Mr . Hoard . There is no
additional educational code imposed on independent schools
above the normal building code. In other words, we come , in
building code, under C5 for assembly. Churches
schools are C5.5 and that 's the extent , I 'm scrry , I '
interrupted . '
CHAIRMAN TOMLANr Do you have any further comments? '
`
MR. MAYER: Yes I have something t::, '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I b li t iti '
e eve you were f jus wa ng or . .
MRS. MAYER: He was just dying . . . .
MR. MAYER: 1%1r., this is - that 's true - this is at the '
request of Mr . Hoard who asks that I not say much and to
^
PAGE 45
,
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86-
give
/ 10/86give you sketches - and in general , to maintain the calm
wherever possible.
MS. FARRELL: So this is the same as this thing we got . . .
MRS~ MAYER: Except there is a letter - yeah , right , part of
it is, yes.
MR. MAYER: Yes . May I say the sketch in the front is the
same as you have. The inside sketch is our proposed
educational additions, not the requirements to meet the
code. And basically we planned the educational part to make
no changes on the exterior of the building and add
partitions in the main part - remove walls, add a toilet ,
etc . in the other - on the second floor . If the special
permit is granted , our next step will be to prepare
architectural drawings in contact with Mr . Hoard and Mr .
Dieterich so we can make the code . I do not know what extra
internal changes will have to be made. The next page you
have is from Dr . Kramer , who is on the Board of Directors, I
`
think you have that in your notes already . He is pointing '
out the fact that we. . . . '
`
MRS. MAYER: You don' t need to do that , they already have '
°
it . `
MR. MAYER: Thank you . The next letter is from a parent who
essentially is also a Board member and the key statements
are in the second paragraph and the third . In the second ^
`
paragraph he says " I 've been involved with the Mayer School ~
'
for the past four years, first as a parent and later as a '
Board member , I have only praise for the manner in which the .
PAGE 46 .
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
school is operated . " And he says he has also been involved
in a search , his last comment is " it is in my opinion the
school would only enhance the neighborhood" . I would like
to add something , that in the years that I have been
associated - some twenty-five years - with my wife as a
teacher and head master , she has always, as a head mistress,
she has always done her best for the children and I want to ,
I just snatched from her a letter that just arrived for
another reason, it is not included because it is a personal
note, I thought it would give a marvelous flavor of he,.--
school
erschool and this is from a grandparent in Massachusetts who
wrote because her husband - who is dying - and she wanted
Betty to give some support to parents and she says, "for a
long time I have been wanting to write to tell you how
pleased I am with all the good things I hear about you-.--
school .
ourschool . It has been a wonderful experience for my
granddaugher , turning her into a child who is blossoming out
and eager to learn. It is also a great relief to me to to
know that my daughter has found a real friend , etc , etc ,
etc . " A marvelous letter of support , which I took . . .
MRS. MAYER: That just arrived tonight and you weren' t .
supposed to have it . ,
MR. MAYER: Yes. Anyway I can also answer questions on the
building , the architect and other questions like that .
MR. SIEVERDING: Have your discussions with the City .
included at all creating some sort of a short term loading '
zone in front of the building? If somebody parks their cat,--
PAGE
arPAGE 47
�
BZA MINUTES
in front of the school , I should think that is going to have
MRS. MAYER: Okay , they will not park in front of the
school . The reason for the parking spaces is that on the
de would be if a parent hasto come in to do any
talking , they can do that . The Planning Board suggested
that things stay as they are with the loading and unloading
in front of the building .
MR. SIEVERDING: What is to prevent me - at 8:00 o 'clock
Tuesday morning from parking my car in front of your
building?
MRS. MAYER: You, not a parent?
MR. SIEVERING: Right .
MRS. MAYER: I ' llbe out there and tell you to move on.
MR. SIEVERDING: But ' . '
MS. FARRELL: I think there are "no parking" signs there
now.
MRS. MAYER: There are "no parking" signs.
MR. SIEVERDING: Is that true?
MS. FARRELL: Yeah , yeah , because of the church .
MRS. MAYER: That 's right , it is definitely marked as a
loading and unloading only .
MR. BUYOUCOS: We are going to insist on that and I think
the City would favor
`
MR. SIEVERDING: Have you had those discussions with the '
Board of Public Works as far as having some sort of a
loading zone designation there or short term standing? '
PAGE 48
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
ing
MR. MAYER: It is a load - I mean it . . .
MRS. MAYER: It is already there .
MS. FARRELLr Because it is a church .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Because it is a church , it is
MR. SIEVERDING: No parking . .
MS. FARREL1-: Yeah , right there to there, say . (pointing to
an outline) Are you planning . . .
MR. MAYER: We do have an emergency - excuse me, to reply -
there is an emergency contingency which is that if there is
someone who is - car breaks down, or something , in front , we
plan to leave this cut through between Seneca and Buffalo
open. That is our emergency in case every possible
contingency - disaster occurs, they can pull there because
my wife, the head mistress, will not permit kids to be
discharged in an unsafe place.
MR~ SIEVERDING: Well , I guess my concern is really that if
you have two or three cars stacked waiting to drop off kids
and you've got one or two no parking zone in front of the
building , whether or not that is sufficient to get those
cars out of that traffic street and off to the side without '
impeding the flow of traffic . Typically what is done in
commercial zones within the City is that often cases - 200
East Buffalo street , for instance - a good portion of the
frontage of the building is designated as a loading zone
with no parking so that there is plenty of maneuverability
for two or three or four cars there, to get in and get out .
I 'm just wondering whether particularly in this instance
PAGE 49
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
when you are talking about kids getting in and out of cars
whether that kind of issue shouldn' t be addressed with the
Board of Public Works.
MR. MAYER: As far as I can recall , the entire frontage is
marked as an unloading area - (-:2 feet .
MR. BUYOUCQS: Is that right? Oh , yeah , that 's right .
CHAIRMAN TQMLAN: As indicated on the map .
MS. FARRELL: You also are planning to continue this as a
driveway then, through here?
MR. MAYER: Itis right now used as a driveway .
MS. FARRELL: Yes, I know. I am also concerned that it
generates a lot of traffic , you know, it certainly is going
to be a more intensive use of this building than has been
there for thirty years or so , on a day to day basis, it also
may be generating a lot of - you know, you are asking people
to unload here but . . . .
MRS. MAYER: No they will not do it through there,
absolute] y not .
MS. FARRELL: All right , would you be spposed to blocking
this off and just making a walk through there instead of a
driveway?
MRS. MAYER: No , I would not .
MR. BUYOUCOS: Wait a minute, what do you mean by blocking
it off?
MRS. MAYER: Making a walkway . . . .
MS. FARRELL: Yes, I mean a walk through instead of a .
veway.
PAGE 5�
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
MR~ BUYOUCOS: I don' t know that 1., have to do that .
MRS. MAYER: I would prefer to keep it open because I think
that in emergencies, if somebody had to get through that it
would be better but I don' t , certainly don' t want cars
driving through there. It has been my experience with
parents that , if you have a plan set up , that they will
abide by that - they actually appreciate one taking the
effort to set something up that seems to be the safest route
for their children .
MR. WEAVER: There are other people involved here, there is
a neighborhood already existing that has children and so
this sidewalk is more important than just to you.
MRS. MAYER: Yes, but I certainly wouldn' t want them to
drive over that , I think . . .
MS. FARRELL: This is also a big mud mess right here now .
How big is this 1.3 play area?
MR. MAYER: It is roughly 36 x 25 feet . It is primarily
being enclosed so that in a controlled fashion . . . little
kids in prekindergarden can go out .
MS. FARRELL: Where are the older children going to go?
MRS. MAYER: In the lower floor there is a multi-purpose
room - on the first sketch - that we are hoping to use for
an activity room. And the older children will be walking to
the public library to do their research work - that will be
another way that they get their exercise. We also take them
to the Ramada Inn for their swimming .
PAGE 51
- -- — '
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
MS. FARRELL: Can you use the - it 's the basement - you can
use that as the gym or something?
MRS. MAYER: No , it is not the basement , it is the first
floor of the building - the room that has moveable
parons - where moveable is misspelled .
MR. MAYER: Good Lord . Dinged once again.
MR. BUYOUCOS: There is one factor in wanting to keep that
exit open ....
you don' t know what kind of an emergency may
arise where you might have to have people going all the way
through , you just don' t know. The school does not intend to
use it as an exit or an entrance but in an emergency , it is
a very good thing to have . Itis the only block , it is the
only property in that block which gces all the way from
Seneca Street to Buffalo .
MS. FARRELL: Yes and that 's why I 'm concerned about it for
its neighborhood impact on the rest ofthe neighborhood .
MR. BUYOUCOS: Well not if they say that they are not going
to do it . . .
MS. FARRELL: Well , you know, that is my concern, that 's '
your concern - there are different concerns.
MR. BUYOUCOS: I was just wondering if you make it a
conA ition of the operation of the building , if you word it
in such a way, that only in an emergency , but not to force
them to put a fence up there, so that it can be used .
MR. MAYER: I don' t care about the fence or anything else,
what I would like you folks to realize is that the safety of '
the kids comes first and . . .
PAGE 52
BZA MINUTES
MRS. MAYER: And of the neighborhood children as well - we
are concerned about all children and adults too , who don' t
pay attention.
MR. MAYER: Holy Smokes, there is no intention to use this
as a go through because kids will be in there . During the
school hours, unless there is an emergency , as alluded to ,
there is no way that people are going to be going through
there.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I 'd like to change the direction of the
conversation slightly, if I might . Do you have any idea who
is parking on the property at present and the reason I ask
this, I will lay out front , is the Board in the past ha.-ii.-
been
asbeen concerned with the granting of variances conditional
upon other people getting parking within a certain distance
of those properties and it seems to me there are an awful
lot of cars there . Do we have any idea, or does the
Building Commissioner know who is presently parking on that
property who , by virtue of the granting of this variance
would suddenly be without parking , assumedly?
MR. MAYER: Well I 've heard from the Reverend Poole that '
`
Ceracche is - that some of his employees use the lot here
rather than their own building lot , or their own lot across
the way . I have noticed on occasion, when driving through
there has been one or two cars parked near the Buffalo spot .
According to the Reverend Poole, these belong to
neighborhood people and they move their cars on Saturday or
PAGE 53
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
Sunday . Now, as far as I know, there are only two cars
concerned there, other than the ones that Ceracche ' . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: All right , so you are saying that there
may be four cars that belong to Ceracche employees, perhaps?
MRS. MAYER: We don' t 1-:: what the number is.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN; You don' t know, and there are a couple c'f
others, do we know about the rest of the cars on the site?
MR. MAYER: I 'm trying to tell you, as far as I know there
is one family ng on the second floor - that 'I. and I
don` t know whether they have - I believe they have two ' . .
MRS. MAYER: They do have two cars.
MR. MAYER: They have two cars. Their name is Correiro ,
they do live on the second floor . We will not say anything
more about whether they should or shouldn' t but they do live
there. He is the assistant minister . As far as I can tell ,
according to Reverend Poole, there are these other cars from
Ceracche in this part . They do have their own lot . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Do we have any further information about
the rest of the cars, I mean the lot is full . .
`
MS. FARRELL: It was full today, it had fourteen cars. .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Absolutely full from one side to the other '
and it 's . . .
MR. BbYOUCOS: Excuse me sir , was that with permission?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well that `s what I ' m trying to find nut .
MR. BUYOUCOS: Or was it that they simply went in or do they
rent it out?
PAGE 54
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I understand , but that 's what I 'm trying
to find out . Do we have any information on that?
SECRETARY HOARD: If you mean, if you are asking if these
are dedicated parking spaces. . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAM: That 's right .
SECRETARY HOARD: To other uses in the neighborhood , as far
as we know , they are not .
CHAIRMAN TQMLAN: Okay .
MR. MAYER: The only ones that I know for sure, according to
Reverend Poole are the two - I 've seen one, I 've seen none,
I `ve seen two hanging out here .
MR. BUYQUC8S: But they are not dedicated .
CHAIRMAN TOMLANr Fine. Any other questions from members of
the Board?
MR. BUYOBCOS: May I just bring out something? How many
children have you been told by the church , from their
records, are there on a Saturday or a Sunday? Or maybe any
other day .
MRS. MAYER: We haven' t been told by the church , I only
noticed on their attendance board - sometimes there is
ninety-five children and two hundred fifty adults.
MR. SIEVERDING: On a Sunday?
MRS. MAYER: I don' t know . They meet other times, other
than Sunday - they have meetings in the evening also .
MS. FARRELL: Wednesday night , I think . `
PAGE 55
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
MRS. MAYER: And I 've just seen their attendance board , I
don' t know whether that ' s - you know - hymn number or what
but it says attendance.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further questions? Thank you. Is
there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of
granting this special permit? Please come forward .
MR. HOWELL: How do you do? I 'm Frank Howell , I 'm here
representing the Parent 's Group of the Mayer School . Very
briefly, I would just like to indicate our support by
explaining to the Board that we have been aware of the
search that has been ongoing for the last two - two and
one-half years by the Mayers, to find an alternative site,
knowing that the Ithaca School District was going to be
needing the West Hill School site . Secondly that based on
my experience and my child has been there since the school
began - since they first opened the school - the Mayer ` s
have spent a great deal of time and money on enhancing the
current site through their library and through any number of
investments, both in time and in money, I 've known the
Mayers since they have been in Ithaca and I feel very
confident they would invest a great deal of time and effort
in enhancing the neighborhood or maintaining the current
status of the neighborhood . And finally, it has been my
experience that they are extremely consistent and recognize
'
the need to have these children supervised properly . Every
day, as I drop off my daughter , one of the staff is at the
curb at all times, when cars stop , and they walk the child
PAGE 56
BZA MINUTES
in and another staff takes the place, so they are very , very
careful in that respect . We as a parent 's organization
whole heartedly approve of this site, being based in many
different neighborhoods, we feel that this is an excellent
site and we hope that this Board will approve the permit .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions from members of the Board?
Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in
favor of the granting of this special permit - it is also an
area variance?
MRS. MAYER: May I just make one more. . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Briefly , briefly .
MRS. MAYER: Briefly , briefly, briefly , okay . As I stated
in my - at the opening - it is a not for profit - school .
We never have made a profit , nor do we intend to . As an
independent school - that is kind of important .
MR. WEAVER: I was hoping you were a tax paying outfit .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is there anyone else who would like to
speak in favor? (no one) Is there anyone who would like to
speak in opposition to the granting of this permit and
variance? (no one) That being the case , it is ours.
PAGE 57
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO. 1680 520 WEST SENECA STREET
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ` ll start off with a comment just to , in
a sense, reiterate Tracy' s point about the increased traffic
in that alley . I can remember , and you, Charlie, may well
remember too , the promise we had from just across the
street , not to demolish a certain building - to increase the
parking and not more than three weeks after we granted our
variance on the supposition - the building came down and the
parking was increased and the trafficbetween one street ,
that -.1 State and Seneca, has increased remarkably through
that alleyway ever since. I would only point out that we `ve
come up against promises like this before and promises in
and of themselves don' t hold much water after the fact .
MR. WEAVER: Well fundamentally I `m not here to champion Cil-
c.: c'c:
rchooI don' t think that
question is I---
CHAIRMAN
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: True .
MR. WEAVER: But Section 30.26, 3 a and b , as they apply to
what will happen, I guess that is not contested - but we
will have that many people coming and going . That last
phrase A says the enjoyment of or rather thereof and B is
involved with traffic and parking demand - that seems to me
to be a serious consideration. We are projecting - we don' t
have any count and we won' t have any count until - wouldn' t
have any until after , so we' ll have to - each of us will
have to make our own judgment . But that is all we are here
PAGE 58
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86 '
`
for is to grant on a basis of conformance (unintelligible)
`
and essentially nothing else of impractical difficulty or-
tearing
rtearing the front porch off . It seems not to be technically .
any kind of a problem no matter which way you fly .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further discussion? .
MR. SIEVERDING: I think - another comment (unintelligible)
Charlie was just making with respect to traffic . I don' t
think the issue is so much the potential increase in traffic .
because Seneca Street is actually fairly heavily traffic ^
street , but I think that points up another difficulty, in my '
mind anyway, and that is this whole issue of discharging of
somewhere between fifty and ninety school age kids in one
hour period of time, with apparently no provision for
pull-off, no proposed signage indicating that this is to be ^
a school , so that people are aware of that activity going on
as they are travelling down Seneca Street . I think that is
a big concern, especially as it relates to this section B
about creating a safety, general welfare problem. I think
in the same kind of context as far as general welfare has to
do with this whole proposed play area issue, I `m not exactly
sure how many square feet this relates to but , it seems as
far as having a site that provides suitable outdoor play
'
areas for the children going to this school , in that kind of
sense , I think the site leaves a little bit to be desired .
MS. FARRELL: The signage - I mean - the School District
might put up signs for speed limits and things like that , if
the school goes in there . I mean, I 'm not sure that 's too
`
PAGE 59 .
�
BZA MINUTES
much of a problem . It still could be a problem just-
processing
ustprocessing that many pull-offs per hour . The signs I don` t
think would be a problem .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Stewart?
MR. SCHWAB: The only situation like this that I am at all
familiar with is down at Chapel Hill , where I am from. The
two busiest streets in town have a number of churches and
what not and day care and they actually use, I think , quite
effectively that alley as the method for discharge . I hear
the general comments all saying that that ' s a horrible idea,
it seems to me it 's safer , in that you are off Seneca Street
when you are unloading . But am I off base here?
MS. FARRELL: I think it is probably safer for the kids
coming in to the school , I 'm not sure it is safer for people
walking to school in that neighborhood , there is a lot of
foot traffic in that neighborhood . Also at those hours , �
'
walking to Central School and Immaculate Conception, which '
are right down the street on Buffalo Street , so I 'm not sure
- there is also foot traffic going the other way from those
streets, up to West Hill .
^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: More specifically, Stewart , if you would
look at the Section 3b that we have been kicking around .
30.26. The operation in connection with any special use ,
shall not be more objectionable to nearby property by reason .
of noise, fumes, increased vehicular traffic and parking . I .
mean, to increase the circulation inside the block would be
disastrous, at least in my opinion, to the adjoining
PAGE 60
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
properties for whatever purpose. I mean, just by virtue of
the amount of vehicular access you provide. You are right
insofar as the way in which you would drop people off but
this is precisely what occurred on the other side of the
street , when essentially we had tried to hold the building
line T-1 keep the coherence and what essentially occurred is
that it has become nothing more than a large drive-in and
parking lot . I 'm also a little bit concerned about what
happens to the people who are parking there now, even though
they are not designated , I really continually wonder where
all the cars are going next .
MR~ SCHWAB: As far as that is concerned , I 'd say if they
don' t own it - if they don' t own the parking
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well , that 's true .
MR. SCHWAB: It 's their tough luck and the neighbors.
SECRETARY HOARD: It seems to me the problem with relying
too heavy on 3a and 3b is that - for a school - anywhere
they go that ' s going to keep them out in a residential
neighborhood .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well I think in a - coming back to Tracy 's `
position, which I think was the most sound , I 'm rather
inclined to believe that if, and incorporating in a sense,
what Herman is saying , that if you were to develop (changed
tape here; therefore missed some of the dialogue) if in fact '
it is one to go forward with .
MS. FARRELL: Seneca Street is extremely busy now, it is
hard to tell whether that amount of traffic would be a
PAGE 61
' --
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
problem on the street , as you said . I mean, you might not
feel that that increase in traffic - then again, is there
enough space there to deal th it?
MR. SIEVERDING: I like the idea you are suggesting . Again,
for me the issue is not the amount of cars, because I just
don' t think that 's a problem for Seneca Street . It 's just
adequate provision and signage, warning people that there is
in fact a school zone, that there are going to be kids who
are t
going to be - or at least cars thaare going to be
pulling off and discharg� ng students . It seems to me that
with adequate signage and appropriate amount of space
designated in front of the building , that perhaps cnnforms
to the size of the lot at that point , it seems to me to be
adequate
r.:, In conjunction with closing off the
access onto Buffalo Street and dedicating that back portion
to an outdoor play area seems to be a suitable approach .
MS. FARRELL: I mean, I 'm not sure if it should be closed to
foot traffic , there could be a little opening , but just . . .
MR. SIEVERDING: Closed to vehicular traffic .
MS. FARRELL; Yes. Yes . Yes . Yes . Still with the walk
through .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAW: Charlie? Any thoughts?
MR. WEAVER: Yes, I wouldn' teven consider approval unless
there is vehicular close-off on Buffalo Street . All the
houses in this area would be affected by any substantial ^
traffic through there - not just the sidewalk but cars
running from street to street - for whatever reason
PAGE 62
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/8�
should think would be objectionable in a residential
neighborhood .
MS. FARRELL: And these houses are right up close - there is
a lot of houses very close to that line .
MR. SCHWAB: There must be some of that now with people
parking in there .
MS. FARRELL: Yes I think there is. But it is not
know - it is more sporatic .
MR. SIEVERDING: It certainly was going on Sunday when I was
there, because that is when the church was in attendance ,
you know, when you get to see how the traffic flows around
the property.
CHAIRMAN T8MLAN: Do I hear a motion?
,
PAGE 63
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 168O 520 WEST SENECA STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of
Elizabeth B. Mayer for an area variance and a Special Permit
to permit the conversion of the existing church at 520 West
Seneca Street to a private school for prekindergarden
through eighth grade students. The decision of the Board
was as follows:
MR~ SIEVERD%NG: I move that the Board grant the area
variance and special permit requested in Appeal Number 1680
with the Special Permit conditioned upon the condition 1 )
that the vehicular access not be allowed through the site
such that vehicles can pass through the property from Seneca
to Buffalo or from Buffalo to Seneca, by blocking off the
Buffalo Street side of the property from vehicular ingress
and egress, 2) that a pull-off area or loading zone be
established that conforms to the width of the property on
Seneca Street and that this area be designated as a
"drop-off" point for the students who are going to be going
to school here and 3) that somewhere farther east on Seneca
Street there be warning signage indicating that there is a
school up ahead and to forewarn motorists who are traveling
along Seneca Street that there is a school and a potential
safety problem ahead. With these conditions met, the
conditions established in Section 30.26, Paragraph C-4,
Subparagraph iv, are adequately met with the proposed
^
conditions to the variance.
PAGE 64
- - '
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
FINDINGS OF FACT:
1 > Practical difficulty has been shown in that picking up a
building and moving it back would be impractical to meet
the required front yard setback.
2) The existing condition is not out of character with the
rest of the properties up and down Seneca Street.
3) The Board has heard no comment, one way or the other
from surrounding property owners.
MR. SCHWAB: I second the motion.
VOTE: 4 YES; 1 NO; 1 ABSENT GRANTED W/CONDITIONS
PAGE 65
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
SECRETARv HOARD: The last appeal is APPEAL NO. 1681 FOR 116
NORTH PLAIN STREET:
Appeal of Joseph Quigley for an area variance for
deficient off-street parking and deficient
setbacks for one side yard and the rear yard under
Section 30.25, Columns 4, 13, and 14 of the Zoning
Ordinance to permit an addition to the existing
real estate office building at 116 North Plain
Street. (J. D. Shippy Realty, Ltd. ) . The
property is located in a B2a (Business) Use
District in which the proposed use is permitted;
however under Section 30.49 the appellant must
first obtain an area variance for the listed
deficiencies before a building permit can be
issued for the addition.
MR. QUIGL-EY: My name is Joseph Quigley, this is Patricia
Williams, my associate. We recently leased the J . D . Sh � ppy
Realty Company with the option to buy for a Real Estate
Office. The economic viability of a Real Estate Company in
this area requires that we have a certain number of agents
to be able tosuccessfully pay our expenses. The area that
we have in this building is not economically viable over the
long haul , we only have eight hundred and twenty five square
feet . We are proposing an addition of approximately a
thousand square feet , which we understand requires that we
obtain two additional parking spaces. The other problem
with the addition is the way the original is built - it was
PAGE 66
`
BZA MINUTES
built too close to the boundary lines. The addition that we
propose, I guess you all have the . . . '
MS. WILLIAMS: Did you get the little pictures?
BOARD MEMBERS: Yes.
MR. QUIGLEY: It is a very upscale type building which would '
fit very nicely with the present building - it would only
enhance the area and give a needed shot in the arm as far as
the appearance and the economic vitality of that end of '
town. I guess that ' s it .
MS. WILLIAMS: I would like to say that when I met with Mr .
`
Dieterich , we have parking - did you get one of these
[holding up a drawing submitted with appeal ] (Board members '
replied in the affirmative) okay, there is a driveway here, .
^
there is a driveway here - not right now, without this
addition part - there is a driveway over here . When I .
talked with Mr . Dieterich he said there might be a problem .
with backing out on Seneca from here, so we got permission
from our next door neighbor - the Breck Upholstery - if need
be to have two parking places back there . But in Real
Estate the Agents are usually out , they are not in all at
once, they are out - hopefully selling - and there is the
person who is on floor and the secretary - generally the .
office is empty. Right now we have cubicles, they are
little cubicles and there is no privacy and when you bring '
people in to talk about their finances, they don' t want the
guy in the next booth hearing everything they are saying so '
PAGE 67
BZA MINUTES
what we would like to do is put ten private offices in that '
addition .
MS. FARRELL: The question that I have about parking then is
that you've got seven places arranged in the configuration
on the map . If you rented two places - you need eight
places, according to our worksheet - so you are deficient 1-
%
ywaIf you get the two places from Breck
Upholstery, does that r".. that you are getting rid of two
cf these places?
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. Then the other - then that person could
pull in sideways instead of coming in this way and back
around to get out so he could pull out forward .
MR. QUIGLEYwhere you have the tree in front of the
building? (unintelligible> side by side .
MR. SIEVERDING: So you are parking this way?
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, then he could back around . Yes, because
Peter was worried about him backing out on Seneca Street .
MS. FARRELL: Okay , so that would give you two and four and
two which gives you eight . Is it legal to park in this way?
You know, parallel to the street and all that?
MS. WILLIAMS: I think so .
MR. SIEVE RDING: Is there a certain distance Tom that the
parking space has to be from the sidewalk?
SECRETARY HOARD: Not in a business zone.
MR. SIEVERDING: Not in a business zone .
PAGE 68
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
MS. WILLIAMS: Plus there is quite a bit of footage there
because you have to have the depth for a car going that way,
so I figured one going that way has got to be okay.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I can only make an observation here on
your elevation drawings and that is that one elevation
drawing shows you to have a gable roof and the other
elevation drawing shows you to have a hip roof and that
geometrically is impossible.
MS. WILLIAMS: .1. no artist . I am not an artist . wt--, we
want to do is have - we found out - Mark Zaharis told me
that he knows where we can get slate because we love this
building and we want to keep it this same way, and we can `
still do the stucco and that supposedly will be, you know
`
the extension - that is the way I want it to look from -
`
with the little - essentially another one of these [pointing '
to a picture] only with windows.
MR. WEAVER: Where are you looking from? Seneca?
MS. WILLIAMS: When you are facing Seneca Street , yes and
then the side view would be that other cne but I 'm sorry, I '
just - we don' t have an architect yet and I tried to draw `
those to give you as good an idea as I could .
MR. WEAVER: Ynu should keep on selling real estate .
MR. SIEVERDIMG: Tom whatis the rear yard depth required in
this zone? Is there one? On the table there, I 'm trying .
�o . . .
SECRETARY HOARD:
°
PAGE 69 .
' BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You just mark it as deficient , you don' t
even care what might be required?
' MS. WILLIAMS: I might want to add that it - strangely
' enough our legal address is Plain Street . Our mail comes to
401 West Seneca Street but our . . .
MR. SIEVERDING: I had to do a double take after I drove
down Plain Street . I knew where it was but . . .
' MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. I didn` t discove-I--
-n tr-j
nto the office.
SECRETARY HOARD: 17'i fteen percent of the depth of the J.
MR. WEAVER: Under the circumstances that 's a. . . .
' Commissioner , if you will give me the depth I will be able
' to calculate that , but I don' t have the depth so . . . fifteen
' percent of what?
MR. SIEVERDING: And the depth is being calculated from
North Plain Street , that 's the property address?
MR~ QUIGLEY; That 's the legal address, right .
MR. SIEVERDING: So it looks like, Charlie, you've got
forty-seven and twenty-six .
MS. WILLIAMS: Well I see on this little map , Dieterich drew
this and I think that 's seventy-three . . .
MR. SIEVERDING: Seventy-three feet , that 's what I
calculated .
MR. SCHWAB: And virtually all building . That 's why the
MR. WEAVER: Ten feet .
MR. SIEVERDING: Yes '
PAGE 70
BZA MINUTES
[discussion took place which wasn' t picked up by the tape
recorder - everybody was talking at once]
MR. QUIGLEY: And it is at least six or eight feet . . . there
is a wood shed on there now .
MS. WILLIAMS: Well that - I hope we don' t have to move.
That 's the old building .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is there any justification or reason for
the overall size, aside from the fact that you are
increasing , I mean, you are suggesting twenty by forty-two
foot addition, but that ' s a fairly significant addition, I 'm
just kind of wondering why?
MR. QUIGLEY: Economic necessity of it all . We are opening
what is called a hundred percent real estate office. A
hundred percent real estate office is a totally different
scheme as far as the way it operates its business. We do
not take a percentage of the realtor 's commissions . We sell
a realtor desk fees; he buys a desk and so many square feet
of office. It takes so many of those people, paying a desk
fee to make it an viable economic entity . We 've calculated
that fourteen people is what we need to have working there
to make our investment worthwhile. That ' s what drives the
square footage for the addition - that magic number -
fourteen agents .
MS. WILLIAMS: Do you understand what that means? It is a
really different concept .
MR. SIEVERDING: So your realtors charge their own - what is
it five percent , six percent , commission?
`
PAGE 71 `
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86 '
`
MR. QUIGLEY: They get their own commission, right . We .
`
don' t care how many houses they sell , they are paying us an .
overhead and desk fee, which has cranked into it a
reasonable return on our investment . .
MR. SIEVERDING: And then you provide all of the clerical ,
telephone answering service and all of that kind of
business.
MS. FARRELL: Sort of like a hair dressers. `
MR. SIEVERDING: In addition to the fourteen sales people ,
how many other people are going to be working there?
MR. QUIGLEY: One :,
MR. SIEVERDING: Just one other person.
CHAIRMAN TQMLAN: Do you have any comment in response to the
^
notes of the Planning and Development Board which questioned '
the notion that three of the parking places, that is, the '
ones closest to the corner , had direct street access? '
MS. FARRELL: That 's what we were talking about . '
MR. WEAVER: Trying to make them parallel with Seneca rather
than - only two instead of three . '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN; I see ' '
MR. QUIGLEY: One more than we needed - but the two that we
arranged to lease .
MS. FARRELL: You` ll have eight , right? Is that what you
mean?
MR. SIEVERDING: Six on site, plus two off .
MR. WEAVER: He' ll meet the minimum. .
PAGE 72 `
^
-
BZA MINUTES - 3/10/86
MR. SIENERDING: And then - you have a lease from the
adjoining property owner and I guess that is something
you've got to check out before you. . .
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes we have a letter from them.
MS. FARRELL: Tom, does somebody check that they haven' t
overdedicated their parking spaces - we've talked about that
before - I mean, you know, you could dedicate and dedicate
and double dedicate.
SECRETARY HOARD: Yes, we do check . Sometimes what happens
is the person that leases the spaces - when the lease runs
out , notifies us because they are losing that income. MR.
QUIGLEY: That space is not being used now. If you were
there today, there was one car back there.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions from members of the
Board? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to
speak in favor of granting this variance? (no one) Is there
anyone who would like to speak in opposition? (no one) .
VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE: I would like to speak in favor of .
it .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: This is your chance. .
VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE: That 's it , I just spoke in favor of .
it .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay . Then it 's ours. '
,
^
^
'
,
`
`
PAGE 73
�
BZA MINUTES - 3/ 10/86
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1681 116 NORTH PLAIN STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Joseph
Quigley for an a
area variance to permit n addition to the
existing real estate office building at 116 North Plain
Street . The decision of the Board was as follows:
MR. SIEVERDING: I move that the Board grant the area
variance requested in Appeal No. 1661 with the condition
that the appellant annually demonstrate the existence of a
lease whereby the owner of the property is renting two (2)
parking spaces within 500 feet of the premises. The Board
recognizes that the existence of a lease for the two parking
spaces doesn`t materially alter the existing deficiencies
that are noted on the worksheet ( the side yard and the rear
yard) , and that there is, in fact, a fairly substantial
increase of the lot coverage.
MS' FARRELL: I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT:
1 ) The proposed use is consistent with the zone and it
doesn't materially alter the neighborhood .
2) Although there is an increase in the percentage of the
lot covered, it is within a business zone, which is
appropriate.
3) There is a practical difficulty in terms of not being '
able to change those deficiencies, given the existing
site configuration and size.
VOTE: 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT GRANTED W/CONDITION
PAGE 74 ^
I, BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board of
Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of Appeals
numbered 1676, 1677, 1678, 16793 1680 and 1681 on March 10, 1986 in
the Hall of Justice, 120 E. Clinton Street, City of Ithaca, New York
that I have transcribed same, and the foregoing is a true copy of the
transcript of the minutes of the meeting and the action taken of the
Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York on the above date,
and the whole thereof to the best of my ability.
'!42r
B Ruane
Recording Secretary
Sworn to before me this
day of , 1986
JEAN J. HANIKI 1SON
NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF NEW YORK
No. 55-1 5&0800
QUALIFIED IN TOMPKINS COLINTI�
MY C0P119@ISSIOiY EXPIEES MARCH 30,19