HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1985-09-03 i
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
SEPTEMBER 3, 1985
TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE
APPEAL NO. 1641 CORNELL RADIO GUILD, INC. 3
111 CHESTNUT STREET
DISCUSSION 16
DECISION 17
APPEAL NO. 1645 LAMBERTIS GIBBS 34
208 FAYETTE STREET
DECISION 37
APPEAL NO. 1646 204 CORNELL STREET 18
ANGELINA ROTUNNO
DISCUSSION 31
DECISION 32
APPEAL NO. 1647 STEPHEN & LINDA HOVANEC ( IN SEPARATE FOLDER)
505 SOUTH AURORA STREET
APPEAL NO. 1648 MYRON & PAULINE WASILCHAK (WITHDRAWN )
110 HAWTHORNE PLACE
APPEAL NO. 1649 RON CHAPMAN & TRACY FARRELL 38
429 WEST BUFFALO STREET
DECISION 41
If DISCUSSION 42
APPEAL NO. 1650 WILLIAM LOWER 43
535-37 WEST STATE STREET
DISCUSSION 57
MOTION AND MORE DISCUSSION 64
FINAL DECISION 74
APPEAL NO. 1651 GLENN E. MILLER 75
114 SOUTH MEADOW STREET
" " " DECISION 77
TABLE OF CONTENTS BZA 9/3/85 (continued)
APPEAL NO. 1652 HOMES, INC. 78
129 PARK PLACE
DECISION 86
CERTIFICATION OF RECORDING SECRETARY 87
_
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 1
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
CITY OF ITHACA NEN YORK
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
SEPTEMBER 3 , 1985
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Good evening. I would like to call to order
the September 3r 1985 meeting of the City of Ithaca Board of Zon-
ing Appeals . The Board operates under the provisions of the Ith-
aca City Charterp the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, the Ithaca Sign
Ordinance and the Board ' s own Roles and Regolations . Members of
the Board who are present tonight include :
MR , CHARLES WEAVER
MS . TRACY FARRELL
MR. RICHARD BOOTH
MR. STENART SCHWAB
MS. HELEN JOHNSON
MR . MICHAEL TOMLAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD
MR . THOMAS D . HOARD, BUILDING COMMISSIONER
8 SECRETARY TO THE BOARD
MS ^ BARBARA RUANE, RECORDING SECRETARY
, The Board will hear each case in the order listed in the Agendum .
First we will hear from the appellant and ask that he or she pre-
sent the argument for the case as succinctly as possible and then
. be available to answer questions from the Board . We will then
hear from those interested parties who are in support of the ap-
'
P lication' followed by those who are opposed to the application,
I should note here that the Board considers interested parties to
be persons who own property within two hundred feet of the prop-
erty in question or who live or work within two hundred feet of
the property that is under discussion. Thos the Board will not
hear testimony from persons who do not meet the definition of an
interested party . While we do not adhere to strict roles of evi-
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 2
dence , we do consider this a quasi-judicial proceeding and we
base our decision on the record^ The record consists of the ap-
plication materials filed with the Building Department, corres-
pondence relating to the cases as received by the Building De-
partment, the Planning and Development Board ' s findings and re-
commendations, if any, and the record of tonight ' s hearing.
Since a record is being made of this hearing, it is essential
that anyone who wants to be heard, come forward and speak direct-
ly into the microphones, directly opposite me here, so that the
comments can be picked op by the tape recorder and heard by
everyone in the room. Extraneous comments from the audience will
not be recorded, therefore will not be considered by the Board in
its deliberations on the case . We ask that everyone limit their
comments to the zoning issues of the case and not comment on as-
pects that are beyond the jurisdiction of this Board. After
everyone has been heard on a given case, the hearing of that case
will be closed and the Board will deliberate and reach a deci-
sion . Once the hearing is closed, no further testimony will be
taken and the audience is requested to refrain from commenting
during the deliberations . It takes four votes to approve a mo-
tion to grant or deny a variance or a special permit. In rare
cases where there is a tie , the variance or special permit is
automatically denied . Are there any questions out there about
our procedure? Then may we proceed with our first case?
SECRETARY HOARDt The first case is APPEAL NO , 1641 111
CHESTNUT STREET:
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 3
Appeal of the Cornell Radio Guild, Inc. , for a
special permit under Section 30^ 26, Paragraph
C-4 of the Zoning Ordinance , to permit the in-
stallation of a translator antenna on the Nest
Hill School at 111 Chestnut Street . The proper-
ty is located in a P-1 (Public) Use District in
which the activities of a not-for-profit agency
are permitted; however under Section 30, 26 a
Special Permit is required for the antenna in-
stallation^ This appeal was held over from the
August 5, 1985 hearing~
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Welcome once again. If you would begin by .
identifying yourself . .
MR , KURTZMAN! Okay , My name is Warren Kurtzman, I ' m President .
of the Cornell Radio Guild Incorporated which is the Corporation
that operates NVBR-FM^ .
MR. RULE: I ' m Matthew Role, Chief Operator of HVBR°
MR. KURTZMAN! Okay ~ Since our last meeting we ' ve done a lot of .
`
work . We had to make this - on how to show the Board exactly .
that our plans for what we are putting on West Hil School will .
not be an eyesore and will not in any way change the character of .
the neighborhood. One change that we made in our plans, in re-
gards to potting op this antenna, is we ' ve discovered that we .
.
could achieve exactly what we are looking for , which we described .
. last time, but not being able to transmit a signal over to the
. East Hill area of Ithaca, by lowering our antenna ^ We found that
we could move the antenna to a different part of the building
and, in fact, lower the antenna that (unintelligible) looking to
a total of about four feet, ten inches, and that will signifi-
cantly decrease any unsightliness that is involved - I don ' t
think that there really is any, anyway . Additionally, we have
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE : 4
moved where we plan on having our broadcast antenna to a portion
of the school building which does not in any way - in the line of
sight of property owners who have expressed any dissatisfaction
with our plans. When we were here last time we were asked to
show a little bit - in a little bit more detail exactly where we
were planning on potting the antenna, and the recommendation that
the Board made was to take some pictures from the site and ad-
joining properties , and show that we really are not, in any way,
going to be an eyesore , So I thought I would pass this around.
What we have here is a tax map from the City Tax Rolls, which
shows the lines of property around the school , it actually shows
the school to scale as it is on the property, and also shows some
of the adjoining properties to the school . I might as well pass
this around now and I can explain to you what it is as we So
along. The pictures along the sides of the drawings that we are
showing were taken from the properties that have the line of
sight with the antenna. We took them from the street in front of
the school , on Chestnut Street, in front of each property own-
er ' s hoose , and as you can see from most of them, you can ' t see
at all - what we are looking to do . In fact, there are trees in
' the way and some of them are evergreen trees which are going to
be full throughout the year . You really can ' t see what we are
planning on potting up . In addition, you will notice that I am
standing on the roof of the school , being that I ' m a little bit
taller than the antenna and you can see from our views of the
street that you can barely see me, so I don ' t think you are going
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE! 5
to be able to see the antenna . One complainant in the area was
Mr . 8 Mrs . Pfann, who live directly across the street from the
school . Originally our plans called for potting the antenna on
the gymnasium of the Nest Hill School and quite honestly I said
that without really understanding our plans, so what we did was
-Matt and I last week - went op to the school and, with the help
of even the Principal of Nest Hill School , he went with os op on
the roof - we planned out exactly where we are going to pot ev-
erything and what we did, is we discovered we are not putting it
anywhere near the 8ymr which she can see from her hoose , in fact
we are potting it all the way in the right hand corner of the
building, which you will see on the drawing as it comes around
and between Mrs. Pfann ` s hoose and that corner of the building
there are two large evergreens - another really large tree - add-
itionally an electrical transformer was far more unsightly than
what we are planning on putting op and I think, if, you know,
what we want to do is not upsetting any of the neighbors in the
area and I think these pictures and these drawings will show you
that we really in no way, are going to bother anybody and espec-
ially now that we ' ve cot the height down to five feet , in fact,
' since we ' ve cot the height down, our little device is actually
going to be shorter than the flag pole at the school , that is
sitting next to the school , about five feet away from where our
antenna is going to be . So I think it really is not going to be
an eyesore at all .
MR , SCHNAV What is the status with the FCC on this?
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE: 6
MR. KURTZMAN: Okay . The FCC , which licenses radio stations (un-
intelligible) translators, licensed os, I don ' t remember the ex-
act date but it was over a year ago and our original application
expired at the end of July which is why at the last meeting we
were really pushing to Set it done. Luckily we were able to be
granted a sixty day extension which gives os until the end of
September to have this operating. At that time I really doubt
that if we do not receive approval and cannot get it op by Sep-
tember , that we are going to be given another extension. Like I
said last time, there is another radio station in Elmira that
would just jump at the opportunity for the frequency so we really
don ' t want to waste time. '
MR. BOOTH : Can you tell os , are there similar facilities on
other schools? '
MR* KURTZMAN! On schools? I don ' t think there is any. . . '
MR. RULE! To my knowledge, not in this area, no~
MR , BOOTH: What kind of an agreement do you have with the School
District?
MR. KURTZMAQ The School is basically letting os have free (on-
intelligible) on the roof as long as we don ' t do any damage , as
'
long as the structure can be taken down at any moments notice ,
which it can be. They have basically given os complete access to
the roof . In exchange we have provided , for the students at the
Nest Hill School , an AM Carrier Current Transmitter . He gave
. that to them many months ago and what the students have there is
basically their own little radio station within the school ~ The
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 7
principal told me that the kids love it - we really have no need
for the equipment anymore, so they have a little Carrier Current
Station in the school - that is the agreement that we made (unin-
telligible) ^
MR ^ BOOTH : Is there any possible interference with anything that
goes on at the school , with the radio transmitter?
MR. RULE : No, the actual power emitted is very low - it is one
watt and that is not deemed to be causing any kind of problems.
'
MR. KURTZMAN: And once we pot it op there - unless there is any
mechanical difficulty, which is not really a common thing to hap-
pen to translaters , we have no reason to 8o back op there again,
until we are asked to take it down, or the school (unintelligi-
ble ) probably in about five days when they have to redo the roof,
but we will 3o op there and probably in a matter of hours, take
. the whole thing down,
. MR , BOOT& What is the life expectancy of this kind of a ~ ^ ,
.
MR. RULE! It is high quality equipment, it is meant to last
pretty much indefinitely . These are not meant to be intended or
. to require periodic maintenance, of course any piece of equipment
' like that does but we don ' t have to get on the roof weekly or
monthly or on any sort of a schedule .
' MR. BOOT& What if kids Set on the roof , is there any danger?
MR~ RULV There is no danger from shock or anything. You can
touch the antenna without any danger there - there is - it is
ondesireable, needless to say, they could do damage to the
'
station .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 8 /
MR . BOOT& I don ' t know about Hest Hill , but the kids at Belle '
Sherman are on top of the building all the time .
MR . KURTZMANt I don ' t see how they can get on the roof of the
`
school . The only way op, that I know of , is this one stairway
inside the building that has been locked .
.
MR, RULEt In fact, the FCC mandates that this equipment most be
kept locked away at all times and inaccessible to the general
public.
.
MS . JOHNSONt What is the nature of the receiver , is that visible
' at all?
MR, RULE! Okay . The receive antenna is a - again , it is a TV
' type flat antenna. It would be mounted just a foot or two above
the roof and it cannot be seen from any vantage point on the
'
ground.
MR. KURTZMAQ The roof has side walls, so you can ' t see it.
MR ~ RULEt There is a wall on the side facing Elm Street, I
believe, and Chestnut Street and it can ' t be seen from Elm Street
because of the anSles^
MS. JOHNSON: In this picture where you are standing on the roof
are you still proposing an antenna which has four or five foot
long - several . , ^
' MR^ RULEt Ri3ht , it would be six feet long and would have five
elements approximately four feet long.
MR . BOOTHt Say that again?
MR . RULE! The antenna would be six feet long , with five elements
that are approximately four feet in width, if that makes sense^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 9
MS ~ JOHNSON! Sort of like a barbeqoe Srill ^ ^ ~
MR, KURTZMAN: If I were standing there , kind of like I had a
really huge hat on, it would be flat - in other words it would be
parallel to the roof of the building, so it doesn ' t add any
additional height .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAW Further questions?
MR . BOOTH! Is there any possibility that you could basically pot
that there, you would be in a position of objecting to other
development around this school , in other words, could other
proposed development interfere with the signal that you are^ , ^
MR . RULE: None . I don ' t see anything that would affect that .
MR , KURTZMAN: You mean, something that would hinder what we are
doing?
MS, FARRELL! Big buildings , . .
MR . KURTZMAW The only thing that could ever destroy what we are '
. trying to do is if somebody, if a contractor came in and built a
.
huge building on the side of the school facing the valley, '
downtown, and being that that side of the building is completely
covered with a huge mass of trees, I think there would be a lot
of objections ^ ^ ^ .
MS. JOHNSOW But if the school were to plant - do plantings
behind that area, it would, after awhile, in effect create a
problem? Create a disturbance problem with the translator?
MR . KURTZMAN: Yes well the thing is, the height that we are at
which is about thirty or forty feet above the ground, when you
are on the edge of the school , it would take years upon years for
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE : to
trees to get that high.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions?
MR . WEAVER: What are the requirements for a special permit? Is
there someone prepared to talk about inquiry and response?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Be more specific Charlie if you can,
MR . WEAVER: Under this Section - it is a special permit .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Right .
MR. WEAVER: I wonder if there has been evidence submitted of
inquiry and response?
MR. KURTZMAN : I think I can answer the question. The reason we
applied for the permit, we went about notification about the
meetings , we went to all residents, I think there were thirty-
four property owners who live within two hundred feet , secondly ,
since that meeting, what I did, I personally didn ' t have enough
time to go to each individual , you know, each one of the thirty-
two property owners and ask them personally , I did send out a
mass mailing to everybody on the list that originally received
the notice about the meetings , asking for responses, in which
they were free to check off - I have no objections or 2) I do
have objections and make them . The only two that I got back with
objections was Mrs . Pfann - there was a problem that I think we
have addressed fairly well , and another person sent it back, I
' don ' t know how they got it because their address isn ' t even with-
in two hundred feet. So we made a real good effort to get the
response of the people - we found mostly the residents in the
area , with the exception of those immediately around the school ,
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: , l
to be apathetic , you know , which we took to mean that they really
had no qualms about what we were doing, so we did really make an
effort to - you know - because we wanted to appease everybody who
lives in the area - we didn ' t want to disturb them~ ( unintelli-
gible) at all .
MR . BOOT& But you don ' t have a written response from other than
those two people? '
MR. KURTZMANt Yes I do - the people just checked - they sent
back . ^ .
MR. BOOTH! Oh, they did send it back? .
'
MR . KURTZMAN! I sent out thirty-two, I believe I Sot back ten, .
. .
eight in favor , saying that they had no problem with what we were
doing and the two that opposed, that I mentioned. .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAQ Would you mind submitting those for the record? .
MR~ KURTZMANt All of them?
CHAIRMAN TOMLANt Please ,
SECRETARY HOARD : There is a flaw in that automatic veto quality
which people have by not responding.
MR. BOOTH: The Board should be aware that the way the Ordinance
is written, we have to hear from the majority of those notified ^
MR . WEAVER: I guess that is what we are for . (unintelligible)
imperfect Ordinance (unintelligible)
MR , KURTZMAN: It is actoally ? I believe, non-responses and one
came back ( unintelligible) .
CHAIRMAN TOMLANI And you sent out how many?
MR . KURTZMAN: Thirty-two^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 12 '
. MS^ FARRELL : And you only Sot ten back? '
MR , KURTZMAN! Yes . I just - what I want to tell you is that we
really made an effort to get the responses from the people, '
twice, and last time we met at this meeting, we did not get one '
person to speak op, there was not anybody in the area, here, and '
. this time the response was not overwhelming, `
SECRETARY HOARD : It ' s a case where having an innocuous project '
works against the appellant . '
MR . KURTZMAN: Yes, that ' s what I am trying to make, I think .
MS, JOHNSON : You had nine, non-forwardable or . ^ ^
'
MR . KURTZMAN! No, no, I got nine back, one was apparently the
owner moved or something but there was no forwardable address .
That one that you have there is a sample of exactly what went
out , that person chose to send back the cover letter . There was
one response that we got that was objecting, but not for zoning
reasons - it was kind of confusing, the guy - I don ' t remember
whether it was gentleman or if it was a woman who wrote back -bot
they were against the idea of a non-profit station being able to
compete against a commercial radio station, but that ' s beyond the
jurisdiction of zoning - that was why the person objected, they
didn ' t have any qualms about the zoning.
MR. WEAVER ! Wouldn ' t it be more efficient to give those to the
Secretary for compilation instead of each of os reading it.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! So we can Set on with it, Richard likes to , ^ ^
MR , BOOTH: This person is concerned about interference with
their home system. You don ' t see any potential there?
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE| 13
MR . RULE! No I don ' t because of two factors, one is the power
level is extremely low and the other is, as far as the FCC is
concerned, we are required to address it , should it become a
factor .
MR . KURTZMAQ I would just like to add that in our efforts to
get responses, we even went so far as to enclose self addressed
stamped envelopes and we still didn ' t get that much response .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN; Any other questions from members of the Board?
Thank you gentlemen .
MR . KURTZMAN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN ! Is there anyone else out there who would like
to speak in favor of the granting of this variance? Please come
forward.
MR. PFANQ I represent Mrs . Lena Pfann, I am George Pfann^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! Would you have a seat please and identify
yourself into the microphones so we can record it properly.
'
MR . PFANN: I am George Pfann, I represent myself and my wife,
Lena. We are the ones that wrote the letter to the Board before
- we are on record and we would like to withdraw that letter . I
am not in favor , but I am not not in favor .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I see ^
MR, PFANV And we ' d like to thank the young men for their
consideration and their communications to os , they did a nice
job .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank you for your comment. Any questions?
(none) Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACO 14
the granting of this variance? It is actually a Special Permit,
would you like to step forward?
MR ^ SAYVETZ! My name is Paul Sayvetz, and I live at 201 Elm
Street and I received the notices and I guess I am one of the
people who didn ' t consider it worthy of responding to because
there is no particular reason for having any feelings about it .
I have no objections to the appearance of such a thing . This, of
coorse, has no relation to my opinion of the radio station but I
guess that is not your ^ ^ ^ ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: True, that is clearly outside our jurisdiction .
MR . SAYVETZ: In fact I don ' t even understand the legality of
what this permit is about , anyway . If you grant this, does this
Sive them permanent imperpetoity (sic) to wreck havoc there on
that roof?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAQ According to the conditions of the permit, yes,
they will be able to pot back little - I would say - four foot
ten inch with its attended pieces . ^ . ,
MR . SAYVETZ: In case of somebody big obstructing the antenna,
does that give them some kind of ^ . , ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! Then if they want to move at that point, they
are going to have to come back to os,
MR, SAYVETZ! Would they be able to demand compensation or
something like that from somebody who obstructed it, just because
they have a permit now?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Not really, within reason*
MR ~ SAYVETZ: Okay ~ I don ' t object then ,
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 15
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Fine, thank you. That makes number eleven out
of thirty-two, I should note for the record . Is there anyone
else out there who would like to speak in favor of the granting
of this permit? (no one) Is there anyone out there who would
like to speak in opposition? (no one ) That being the case, it
is ours .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 16
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO . 1641 111 CHESTNUT STREET
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ Any discussion?
MR. WEAVER*. A question . On yoor review of those letters, there
is one responder who continues to object - or has the objection
been eliminated?
SECRETARY HOARD*� There is one that says "probably view
obstruction for land just west of Chestnut Street* .
MR. SCHNAB� What is that address?
SECRETARY HOARD44 One Westwood Knoll .
MR . KURTZMAN*+ That was the one that was not within the , . . ,
' SECRETARY HOARD*+ And then there is one that objects on the basis
of competition with other radio stations, ^ . ^
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+4 Do I hear a motion?
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 17
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1641 111 CHESTNUT STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Cornell
Radio Guild, Inc . for a special permit to permit the installation
of a translater antenna on the Nest Hill School at 111 Chestnut
'
Street . The decision of the Board was as follows:
MR, WEAVER: I move that the Board grant the request for a
. special permit in appeal number 1641 ^
MS. FARRELLZ I second the motion,
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT:
1 ) Appellants have made a convincing presentation that they have
. made an effort to survey the neighborhood of those persons
who would be affected by this installation. Only two
responses were negative , and neither of the objections were
pertinenj to the installation of this antenna .
2 ) The installation on that large school building would not
affect the character of the nei8hborhood .
VOTE! 6 YES; 0 NO SPECIAL PERMIT GRANTED
'
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 18
SECRETARY HOARD! The next appeal is APPEAL NO. 1645 208 FAYETTE
STREET
Appeal of Lambertis Gibbs for an area variance
for deficient setbacks for the front yard and
both side yards under Section 30.25 , Columns 11 ,
12 , and 13 of the Zoning Ordinance to permit the
conversion of the single-family home at 208 Fay-
ette Street to a two-family home . The property
is located in an R-2b (Residential , one-and two-
family) Use District in which the proposed use is
permitted; however under Section 30 .57 the appel-
lant most first obtain an area variance for the
listed deficiencies before a building permit or
Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the
conversion^
Anyone here representing Mr . Gibbs? (no one) The next appeal is
APPEAL NO. 1646 FOR 204 CORNELL STREET:
Appeal of Angelina Rotonno for a use variance
under Section 30 ^25, Column 2, and an area vari-
ance for deficient off-street parking, deficient
lot area and width, number of stories and lot
coverage exceeding zoning limits , and deficient
setbacks for the front yard and one side yard ,
under Section 30 ^25 , Columns 4, 6 , 7 , Sr 10 , 11 ,
and 13 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the
conversion of the multiple dwelling at 204 Cor-
nell Street from a 'grandfathered' use of three
apartments plus four rooms to rent to four apart-
ments . The property is located in an R1b (Resi-
dential , one-family dwelling) Use District in
which the existing and proposed uses are not per-
mitted; therefore under Sections 30 ^49 and 30 ^57
. the appellant most obtain a use variance to per-
mit expansion of the non-conforming use, as well
. as an area variance for the other listed defi-
ciencies before a building permit or Certificate
of Occupancy can be issued for the proposed con-
version .
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Good evenin87 if you will begin by identifying
yourself .
MR. BECK: My name is Frederick Beck and I am appearing tonight
-
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 19
with Mrs . Rose Rosica" who is the daughter of Angelina Rotonno,
the applicant for the particular variance which relates to both a
use and area variance for 204 Cornell Street which is presently a
rental property, owner-occupied. Change (unintelligible) in
terms of the particular property is a fifty-six inch partition
which is shown on the drawing which I believe you all have, which
is proposed to be placed at the top of the second floor of this
particular building to create a situation where there would be
one apartment replacing and instead of what is now three single
rooms and a studio apartment~ Mrs . Rosica has a few words to say
to the Board in terms of her feelings about the particular change
which is sought - the hardship involved and the effect it would
produce on the character of the neighborhood.
MRS~ ROSICA! I have written this down so that I can cover all
the points that I would like to say . You have already covered
the fact that it ' s covered by the grandfather clause and approved
by the City ^ We have always abided by whatever roles and regula-
tions pertaining to the property - I say "we" because I have been
managing the property for my mother since 1978 ^ The hoose was
built by my father and our family moved in in 1929 ^ This makes
my mother one of the very few original owners left in the neigh-
borhood - and if she had total control of her mental faculties
she would agree with me that no one is more aware and concerned
about the meaning of "preservation of the neighborhood' than we
are . Having lived in the neighborhood for fifty-four years you
can understand my mother ' s desire to stay in her own home for her
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACO 20
remaining years. The hardship in this case is that my mother who
is eighty years old, now suffers from Alzheimer ' s and in order
for her to remain in her home, as she desires, it is necessary
for her to receive home health care . At present this care is
costing her an average of one thousand dollars per month . Under
her present circumstances none of her insurance coverage pays for
any part of home health care . It is a known fact that it is ben-
eficial for the Alzheimers victim to remain in stable, uncompli-
cated and familiar surroundings - but in her present very confus-
ed state of mind and lack of memory - she has great difficulty in
handling the traffic of the tenants as they come and go. It is
the reduction of the number of tenants I am seeking through this
variance to help reduce her confusion with and about them. I
want to make it clear that this is not an addition of another
apartment - it is merely changing the status of five existing
rental rooms to one apartment . The second floor currently has
three single rooms and one studio apartment - a full kitchen al-
ready exists - and has always been rented to four occupants. I
would like to change this to one apartment for two occupants
only. This would only require a partition to make a private en-
trance into the area. In making this change - two hardships
would be solved : One, there will be two less people to add to her
confusion - not to mention less expense and wear and tear and
two, I will still be able to maintain her level of income which
is necessary to pay for her home health care needs and do it with
reduced occupancy . This hoose was never considered a real estate
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: '
investment . Instead it has been a means of survival for my
mother . My father died in 1938 leaving four small daughters and
the hoose was my mother ' s main source of income for our survival .
And now, in her present sad circumstances, the hoose still most
maintain her , 204 has never been the source of any problems for
the neighborhood . To my knowledge there has never been a com-
plaint lodged against the hoose - or its tenants . My mother was
very strict with her tenants and rented to only those students
that appreciated clean and quiet quarters * With the changes in
todays society ' s way of living - I am even more strict with the
tenants . I think that pretty much covers it, I only want - I
hope that you will understand and appreciate the need for this
change - for my mother ' s sake and that you will grant this vari-
ance request that I am making on her behalf, but I want you to
keep in mind that it is reduced occupancy that I am seeking and
that I can see no way how it would be bad for the neighborhood in
any way ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAK Mrs. Rosica would you be so kind as to submit
that written statement. It would save our secretary a great deal
if you have taken the effort . . .
MRS . ROSICA: Yes, There are some things on here that I had pot
down that I^ ^ ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAK Thank you - at the conclusion of the hearing.
Questions from members of the Board?
`
MR. BOOTV In the notes that came from the Planning and
Development Board, the Planning Director , Thys VanCort suggested '
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 22
that approval be tied to occupancy by the owner or at minimum
occupancy be limited to the number now proposed for the
structure, ie five individuals . Is that correct?
MRS . ROSICA! That is correct . I don ' t , ^ ,
MR . BOOTH: Can you explain to me just very quickly how the . . .
MRS , ROSICAt Okay , What they approved or suggested approval was
for one individual on the third floor , two individuals , as I am
seeking , on the second floor , one in the owner ' s apartment , which
I don ' t agree with, and one in the basement . Now in the past we
have always rented to married couples in the third floor and the
basement apartment. I have voluntarily reduced it to one occo-
pant now, simply because of my mother ' s situation . However , in
my opinion , from years of having been involved with this, I find
that married couples are more stable tenants than singles , lots
of times , Renting to singles sometimes is risky . But yes, as it
stands now, that ' s what there would be if the variance is granted
- there would be five people in the house .
MR. BOOT& Is that satisfactory?
MRS. ROSICA: Yes, I can live with that, except that I wonder
about restricting the owner ' s apartment to one?
MR . BOOTQ Which is where your mother presently lives?
MRS . ROSICAt That is where she is now . She is there alone now .
I ' m thinking in terms of the possibility of having to have
someone in on a full time basis with her - a live-in companion,
and I am sore we will reach that point ,.
MR. BECK: Or ownership by a married couple.
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 23
MRS . ROSICAt Right . But as far as the rental areas, yes I can
live with that.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions?
MR~ WEAVER: Yes , I need clarification. This limit to five - I
am not persuaded by comments of the Planners on what they think
might make a good Zoning Ordinance, rather that we are trying to
administer the present one and it doesn ' t - other than a condi-
tional 8rantingr there is nothing in there that suggests we
ought to restrict other than the portion that is being altered.
I hope we don ' t move into the business of restricting everybody
. who comes here in order to have a granting that affects the boil-
ding in one section that will apply to the whole building and
. then we start to decide how many people live in each apartment
. and that sort of thing. The Housing Code is supposedly designed
to maintain reasonable living standards without benefit of the
Zoning Ordinance . It would just seem to me most inappropriate to
condition it as affects another apartment, especially if we
'
granted the appeal to reduce the occupancy of the hoose and re-
duce the parking requirements . It does seem entirely out of or-
' der ^
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAQ So you are suggesting Charlie that - if I could
oversimplify what you are saying - that perhaps the Planning and
Development Board is suggesting beyond what we should be acting
upon?
MR. WEAVER : Yes ^ I am aware of the discussion about what might
be a prefix for certain areas of East Hill but I think it ought
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 24
to start with the legislative body and come down to os after it
has been resolved rather than by ad hoc application that hasn ' t
been formulated yet.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions from members of the Board?
MR . SCHWAB: In your proposal , the income will rise?
MRS , ROSICA : No , actually it will be slightly less than what the
three single rooms and the studio apartment brings but we can
still live with it and I am willing to do that in order to reduce
the activity in the house .
MR . SCHWAB! So slightly less, not too much on the income part?
MRS . ROSICA; No, it is going to reduce it probably about
seventy-five dollars .
MR. WEAVER: I have another question of the Chair and of the
' Secretary of the Board, under 30 ^49^ Question as to whether this
is a change of use, if the present use is a (unintelligible)
but in general it is a multiple dwelling, non-conforming use is a
multiple dwelling in that particular location and it will
`
continue to be and if it is not being increased or extended. . .
MR. BOOTHt What are you looking at Charlie?
MR . WEAVER! 30~ 49r Paragraph B and C.
CHAIRMAN TOMLANt 30, 49
. MR, WEAVER: Section 3O^49. ^ ^
MR . BOOTH: Oh, okay.
MR . WEAVER! Page 30~45^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Tom , do you want to say something?
SECRETARY HOARD: What we run into there, Mr . Weaver , is the de-
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 25
finition of a conversion is any rearrangement and so 30^57 would
prevail where I would not be able to issue a Certificate of Occu-
pancy or a building permit for the changer even though it is not
a change of user per se , it is a rearrangement.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Does that answer the question?
MR. WEAVER! No, I continue to raise the question whether a use
variance is required.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAK That ' s a good question.
MR . HEAVER: Under the burden of this Board to interpret, it
would seem to me that ( unintelligible) I would be glad to hear
your vigorous opposition ( unintelligible)
SECRETARY HOARDt I don ' t have any vigorous opposition.
MR ^ WEAVER: That we role that in our judgment that this is not a
change in use and therefore an area variance would apply and then
give it a conditional variance to regulate the apartment to be
created.
MR* BOOTHZ And you would use what to make that interpretation?
MR . WEAVER! I don ' t know which section gives os the obligation
to interpret the Code but there is such a section.
MR . BOOTH! Yes, right , So that is what you are pointing to, our
general authority to, ,
MR , WEAVER! It seems to me that we could handle that obligation
since we have the right in this case or in any other similar or
close to identical . A case where there is being a general reduc-
tion - in fact - of the occupancy and of the parking requirements '
that we can role that hardship - that the use variance not be '
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 26
required and that we can sail on to the area variance .
SECRETARY HOARD: You have that authority under 30^58B1 ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! Interpretation,
MR . HEAVER! I ' m trying to avoid a strained finding of hardship.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAQ Yes, I follow where you are going, Charlie, I
think that ' s a wise way to go. What I was going to suggest is
perhaps we might look at what the definition of a use variance
and essentially look at that as whether in fact this case meets
that by our interpretation . Jost to simplify things.
MR . BOOTH! I think the significance of Charlie ' s suggestion is
that this is currently a grandfathered use, it does not have a
variance^ Granting it a use variance would change its status
forever and so. ^ ,
MR. WEAVER: If we grant it - it ' s a multiple and it will be a
multiple, so granting it doesn ' t create a different classifica-
tion.
MS. JOHNSON: Granting it doesn ' t remove the Srandfather ^ ^ . ^
MR , BOOTH: Nov I understand that, but today, you see, if this
use were discontinued, then the building would have to revert to
something that is conforming. Where if it were a use variance,
as I understand your current interpretation, would 8o on forever ,
even if the present use were discontinued for a period of time^
SECRETARY HOARD: Correct , but I think what Mr . Heaver is saying
is it doesn ' t need a use variance^
MR. BOOTHt That is why I am fascinated by his suggestion*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Be patient with os, we are getting close, we
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 27
think .
MR. WEAVER: Although it may direct or redirect some attention,
if we can generally encourage a discussion of what they want to
do, we ' ve already heard the basis for a hardship, does that make
you feel better?
MR ~ BECK: Yes sir .
MR. WEAVER! We aren ' t really tramping on any vital stuff
(unintelligible) and I - even though I am taking op valuable time
I am interested (unintelligible)
CHAIRMAN TOMLANI Well I think the best way to go at it is as was
suggested, essentially to find what a use variance - let ' s look
at that and see whether , ^ ^ ^
MR . BOOTH: I would suggest that we do that though, just for the
context of this case ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right .
MR ^ NEAVERt That be in the findings, yes^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right. Okay, fine. To that I torn back
to you insofar as the specificity is - I ' d like, in a sense, for
you to justify as clearly as possible why this was a use variance
based on what we have here, if we feel as though the criteria .
that you have spelled out don ' t meet our satisfaction, we ' ll in- .
terpret otherwise . .
SECRETARY HOARDt Okay , the way I have always interpreted any
kind of a change in a non-conforming use or a non-conforming pro- .
perty - any proposal that comes to me to change the arrangement, .
the use, configuration of a property that is non-conforming under
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 28
the Ordinancer either in use or in physical characteristics, that
if they want to change it , the grandfather rights are eliminated
and they have to start as with a clean sheet of paper and take
care of any use non-conformities through a variance in area non-
conformities, through a variance .
CHAIRMAN TOMLANI Fine ,
MR, WEAVER! Not to argue the point at all , we could have this
same building with a proposal to pot another apartment, not one
but create two apartments out of this former rooming space. It
wouldn ' t increase the outline of the building or change it there .
It is a grandfathered multiple it would then still be a multiple
but it would not be the same multiple and would have impact on
what we are (unintelligible) it . I think that in ad hoc fashion
where we have a case that is beneficient of change, we have a
right to decide that this is not - does not require a use
variance . I am not saying that we should, we simply have that
ri8ht . I will leave it to the Board to decide,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAK Richard do you have any comment?
MR. BOOTH : My sense , since Charlie started addressing this, was
he is absolutely right and I think - and we have to hear testi-
mony, but if we do this I think we ought to restrict it just to
this particular circumstance and not try to fashion - I think Tom
did exactly the right thing and I think his interpretation in
bringing these things to the Board is legitimate and useful and
should continue but in this circumstance, not because of Mrs,
Rosica ' s mother , but because of the four rooms essentially stay-
- - ----- - ' -
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 29
ing the way they are, the occupancy being reduced, I can see we
could fashion the interpretation that this would not require a
use variance and require just area variances for the other defi-
ciencies that the hoose has .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! Tracy?
MS, JOHNSONZ I agree ,
MR . SCHWAB! I guess one - why area variances? Nothing has
changed - nothing is increasing in the area variances - in fact
parking ^ , ,
MR. BOOTH! Building permit.
MR. WEAVER: But there is an alteration in the non-conforming^ ^ .
MR ^ BOOTH: Tom has brought those consistently to the Board.
MS. JOHNSON: Even if there is no increase?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s ri8ht ^
MS* JOHNSONt Or change in deficiency, it still has to . ^ ^
MR^ SCHWAB! Strikes me as a little odd - there is a change in
use and yet we are saying - because it ' s not being increased you
don ' t need a use variance and here it is a change in the internal
structure , even though none of the area variances are being
increased, you do need an area variance ^
MR^ BOOTH: I think in this case , the overall use of the building
is not changing, I think there is a use change (unintelligible)
the overall use of the building isn ' t changing.
CHAIRMAN TOMLANI Fine ^ We seem to be relatively in agreement. '
Sorry to take op your time. He seem to have got our way through
that much . Are there any other questions from members of the '
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 30
Board? (none) Fine, Thank you. Is there anyone else out there
who would like to speak in favor of this variance? Step forward
please. Come op to the microphone and identify yourself .
MR. TERRY: I ' m Bob Terry, I live at 107 North Street , Ithaca,
New York ^ I was rather surprised, not too awfully long ago, to
find out that there were rental units in the house - I just speak
in behalf of this because they have always ran an operation such
that it wouldn ' t be evident to the neighborhood that it was any-
thing but a single residence . I live about three houses - two
hooses from there and I have been there since 1970 and it cer-
tainly doesn ' t appear that there is any delusion of the neighbor-
hood as a result of the minor modifications that they are sugges-
ting here and if I read all of this correctly, the density is, in
fact being decreased by one and it would seem to me , angels on
the head of a pin to belabour the point any fortherr in as much
as it certainly seems within the framework of rational thinking
to do this . I sort of get the feeling everybody here is thinking
that way already, by now , so I ' ve said enooSh^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank you. Any questions from members of the
Board? (none) Anyone else who would like to speak in favor of
granting this variance? (no one) Is there anyone who would like
to speak in opposition to granting this variance? (no one) That
being the case, it is oors ^
'- BZA MINUTES MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 31
DISCUSSION OF APPEAL NO. 1646 204 CORNELL STREET
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is there any further discussion about whether
this is a use variance or not involved here?
MR . SCHNAK I like the idea of not having the use variance, to
keep it grandfathered, as suggested .
MR. BOOTHt Was what?
MR, SCHWAB: On an ad hoc basis saying this will remain a
grandfathered property rather than having a use variance ^ But
still have the Building Commissioner bring all cases - still use
his interpretation too - I don ' t know - want your cake and eat it
too .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAK Well then if we could address the questions of
the area variance difficulties we could move right along .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 32
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1646 204 CORNELL STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of Angelina
Rotonno for a use variance to permit the conversion of the
multiple dwelling at 204 Cornell Street from a "grandfathered"
use of three apartments plus four rooms to rent to four
apartments . The decision of the Board was as follows :
MR, WEAVER! I move that the Board grant the variance requested
in Appeal No . 1646 with conditions as follows:
1 ) that the apartment to be created shall not be
occupied by more than two persons, and
2) that the building be owner-occupied.
MR . BOOT& I second the motion .
' PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT:
1 ) That under Section 30 ,58 of the Ordinance the general powers
of the Board include interpretation of this Ordinance and in
this specific case it is our judgement that this does not
constitute a change that requires a use variance .
2) That there is a finding of practical difficulty in that the
hoose is an old hoose situated on the lot as is , for a great
number of years, and compliance with the area setback re-
quirements - specifically the front yard and one side yard
setbacks, and the lot area width and coverage are not possi-
ble without either acquiring adjacent land or demolition of
the building.
3) The proposed change will reduce the parking requirement for
the property which should improve to a small degree, the
--- --' — ----BZA MINUTES MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE.' 33
parking difficulties in the neighborhood.
VOTE� 6 YES; O NO GRANTED W/CONDITIONS
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 34
SECRETARY HOARV As I moved from the previous case to this one?
I looked again and Mr . Gibbs had come in. This is APPEAL NO .
1645 FOR 208 FAYETTE STREET
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: If you would begin by identifying yourself .
MR , CIBBS: My name is Lambertis Gibbs, I live at 208 Fayette
Street.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And the reason for your variance, why would you
like such a variance?
MR . CIBBSt There is an upstairs vacancy in the hoose which is an
apartment and I would like to use - pot an outside entrance that
would be coming from the front door . It has been used commonly
with relatives of mine who come to town. Now I have decided to
use it in another way, whereby I can rent it to someone legally
and pot in an outside entrance so they may have access and I can
have some privacy , is what I would like to have .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions from members of the Board?
MR. BOOTH : How long have you lived in this hoose Mr . Gibbs?
MR . CIBBS! Thirteen years ^
MR . BOOTW And what you are saying is that currently you have
been effectively using the upstairs for guests and you want to
make that into an apartment . Does your family currently use the
whole hoose when guests are not there?
MR, CIBBS : I am presently - I live alone.
MS . FARRELL: And the outside entrance you propose is shown on
this drawing?
MR . GIBBS: Right. On this outside .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 35
MR . SCHWAB: So the only really difference will be a brick or
stone walkway and then stone steps?
MR . CIBBS! Right .
MR . SCHWAB: The interior of the hoose will be basically the
same?
MR . CIBBSZ Basically the same except for one wall that will
divide the downstairs from the stairway (unintelligible)
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions?
MR . SCHWAB: Have you talked with neighbor on that side about
this?
MR . CIBBS! Yes.
MR, SCHWAB: What is their reaction?
MR ^ CIBBS: Very happy ^ It is a rather quiet street - on one
' side of the street is the Reconstruction Home and the other side
I think there are only six hooses on that street, which is rela-
tively quiet for people who live in the City,
MR ^ BOOTH! Is there any way to pot that proposed entrance on the
back of the hoose?
MR . CIBBS : Yes but when you pot an entrance like that in the
back it creates one of these long unattractive stairways that
goes op the outside of the hoose,
MR . WEAVER! Will this arrive at the first floor landing?
MR. CIBBS: Yes ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLANZ Further questions? Thank you Mr ^ Gibbs , Is
there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the
granting of this variance? (no one) Is there anyone who would
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 36
^ like to speak in opposition to granting this variance? ( no one) I
believe it is ours.
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 37
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1645 208 FAYETTE STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of Lambertis L .
Gibbs for an area variance to permit the conversion of the
single-family home at 208 Fayette Street to a two-family home .
The decision of the Board was as follows:
MR. SCHWAB! I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1645 ^
MS , FARRELL: I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT:
1 ) Two of the area deficiencies; front yard and the other side
yard, will not be affected by the proposed change .
2) The change will create a rather minor deficiency of two feet
by the building of an outside stairway .
3) The testimony showed that this proposed change will not alter
the character of the neighborhood .
VOTE: 6 YES; O NO AREA VARIANCE GRANTED
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 38
SECRETARY HOARV For those of you who are still in the audience
Appeal No. 1648 was withdrawn, that was for 110 Hawthorne Place ,
doe to lack of proper notice by the Appellant .
APPEAL NO. 1649 FOR 429 NEST BUFFALO STREET:
Appeal of Ron Chapman and Tracy Farrell for an
area variance for deficient setbacks for the
front yard and one side yard, under Section
30^25, Columns 11 and 13 of the Zoning Ordi-
nance, to permit enlargement of the second floor
of the two family dwelling at 429 Nest Buffalo
Street . The property is located in an R2b (Re-
sidential , Two-family Dwellings) Use District in
which the proposed use is permitted; however
under Sections 30^49 and 30^57 the appellants
must obtain an area variance for the listed de-
ficiencies before a building permit or Certifi-
cate of Compliance can be issued for the propos-
ed addition .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Do we have somebody who would like to address
this issue?
MS. FARRELL! I ' m not going to be voting on this because it would
be a conflict of interest .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You are who?
MS . FARRELL! My name is Tracy Farrell and I live at 429 Nest
Buffalo Street . I stated in my appeal that my husband and I want
to add another bedroom and bathroom op above the first floor in
the rear of our house . And, basically to Set more living space
for our family. The rooms that we propose to add would be con-
nected to the first floor apartment (unintelligible) and then
there will be a second floor apartment as it exists now in the
hoose ~ We need to apply for a variance because our hoose was
built very close to the front yard - it was built with very lit-
-- -- ---
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE .' 39
tle front yard and one side yard, as were most of the hooses in
the nei8hborhood. What we plan to do wouldn ' t change the exter-
ior boundaries of the foundation of the hoose so I don ' t feel
that it would exacerbate either of the present deficiencies.
MR . BOOTH*+ May we ask questions?
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+f Yes we may,
MR^ BOOTH� You live in the second story?
MS. FARRELL++ We are living in the second story right now ,
'
MR . BOOTH� That is where the enlargement will be?
MS^ FARRELL*+ The enlargements will be over the first story, we
will move to the first floor and add those additional rooms -
added as part of the first floor apartment. Did you look at this
little drawing?
' MR, BOOTH'* I did, but
MS. FARRELL*+ You couldn ' t figure it out?
' MR. BOOTH � No.
'
MS . FARRELL*+ Okay, let me explain.
' MR ^ BOOTH � I am being very candid.
MS ^ FARRELL� Okay . Right now the first floor is Sotted^ So the
first floor would have a stairway connected op to the second
bedroom, which is proposed - it is not there now, There is no
second floor in the rear of the hoose ^
MR ^ BOOTH� That ' s where the addition will be?
. MS , FARRELL� Yes.
. MR, BOOTH� And the additions on the second floor would be part
of your first floor ^ ^ ^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 40
MS , FARRELL: Part of the first floor apartment, yes .
MR. BOOTH: That ' s what I thought it was ,
MS . FARRELL : Okay . And the second floor apartment would stay as
it is now .
MR . BOOTH: And this wouldn ' t increase any of the outside
dimensions of the hoose in terms of its footprint on the soil?
MS. FARRELK No , Actually the hoose is less of a footprint
(unintelligible) the rear porch .
MR. SCHWAB: When was the last time that two families lived
there?
MS, FARRELL: I don ' t really know . We ' ve lived there for five or
six years.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? No further questions. Thank
you Tracy . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor
of granting this variance? (none) Is there anyone who would
like to speak in opposition to granting this variance? (none)
That being the case, it is ours.
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACF^ /
DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1649 429 NEST BUFFALO STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Ron Chapman
and Tracy Farrell for an area variance to permit enlargement of
the second floor of the two-family dwelling at 429 Hest Buffalo
Street ^ The decision of the Board was as follows:
MS. JOHNSON: I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in Appeal No . 1649 ,
MR ^ BOOTH: I second the motion.
FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) The deficiencies are already existing and won ' t be
exacerbated by the changes in the interior of the building.
2) The deficiencies are minor as they stand now^
3) This alteration doesn ' t create any outside dimension chan9es^
4) Effect on the neighborhood would not be detrimental .
5) There was no opposition to the appeal from the neighborhood,
VOTE: 5 YES; O NO; 1 ABSTENTION GRANTED
_
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE! 42
DISCUSSION - APPEAL NO , 1649 429 WEST BUFFALO STREET
MR. BOOTH: Mr , Chairman, just because a member of the Board is
involved in this one, I would want the record to indicate
specifically that she did not participate in any way in the
deliberations ^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEZ 43
SECRETARY HOARDt The next appeal is APPEAL NO. 1650 - 535-537
NEST STATE STREET :
Appeal of William Lower for an area variance for de-
ficient off-street parking under Section 30,25, Col-
umn 4 of the Zoning Ordinance to permit the conver-
sion of the existing retail/storage building at 535-
537 Nest State Street to retail and office use, and
to permit construction of a one story addition for
retail use on the east side of the existing three-
story building ( an existing one-story building on
that side will be removed or demolished) . The prop-
erty is located in both a 62a and B4 (Business) Use
District in which the proposed uses are permitted;
however under Section 30^57 an area variance for the
deficient parking most be obtained before a building
permit or a Certificate of Occupancy can be issued
for the proposed conversion and addition.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: If you could begin by identifying yourselves?
MR, LONERZ I ' m Mr , Lower ^
MR. SHARMA: My name is Jagat Sharma, Architect with offices at
312 E ^ Seneca Street, I am representing Mr . Lower and his appli-
cation, The project that we have at 535-537 W. State Street, and
I have some drawings that will indicate what is involved. The
first drawing, the site plan, this property is surrounded by
State Street on the north end, Meadow Street on the west end .
When Mr . Lower bought the property there were three buildings on
it - one, indicated here, the largest building and here is the
smaller building on the south end and a smaller building on the
east end. The property is a hundred feet by a hundred feet. The
main concern that we have today is that we have the (unintelligi-
ble) of the main property that was indicated and the photographs
(unintelligible) This building is a woodframe building is rated
in a fire zone B and has every problem -one of them being that
' BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEZ 44
' the woodframe building is not permitted in the fire zone - for
' that we are applying to the State Board of Review for a variance ,
'
( unintelligible) the most recent use of this building has been
' some stores on the first floor - three or four retail stores
' and the upper levels of the building were used for storage by the
' same tenant (unintelligible) The condition of this building , as
'
you can see from the photographs that I passed around, needs a
' lot of work. The foundations are weak -(unintelligible) settle-
' ment on the west side (unintelligible) the foundation has to be
( unintelligible) in many different points -the woodframe struc-
ture has to be replaced in many - the planking and the door plan-
' kin8 and floors - joist system - there was a fire in the building
. at one point which damaged some of the wood joists . There is no
mechanical system in the building except for an elevator ,
. electric and plumbing (unintelligible) to speak of ^ In spite of
that, the building as it stands there has some slight importance .
It was the home for Forest City Paint at one time. (unintelligi-
ble) on the store fronts - on State Street - which is construe-
ted of the last store front in the County of that type . It is
also a three-story building, and I am told by the Historic People
that it is the only building in the County which is a commercial
building, woodframe . It is a three-story building and presents a
substantial size at that particular location for entry to the
business district. So what we propose to do is to rehabilitate
the building - we have a choice - or we can tear it down and
build a brand new building - one story . But because of the im-
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE: 45
portance of the building of Historical matters, we want to re-
store the building or rehabilitate the building and our plans
indicate that we will reuse the first floor as commercial - we
will pot in an addition where the small building is on the
east end and increase the amount of stores on the State Street to
enhance and emphasize the (unintelligible) on State Street . The
upper floors (unintelligible) only one story - the upper two
floors we will convert into office space and our Historian has
been talking to people in the area and (unintelligible) point of
view, ( unintelligible) only use (unintelligible) use for office
space - too noisy for apartments . To do that we will build two
new stair towersr we will build an elevator for handicapped ac-
cess and use, we will upgrade the building in terms of fire pro-
tection, fire separation, we will install a sprinkler system, we
will install fire alarm systems and - to give you an indication
of our concept of what the building will look like when we are
done with it. What you see here is the original building, ori-
ginal stores - the roof line here has been changed because at the
moment we have less than six feet head room - we have raised the
walls to create acceptable head room. He will continue (unintel-
ligible) stores for two more stores along State Street . Now, the
question is, why are we here? We are deficient on parking and I
submitted an outline sketch which has been changed (unintelligi-
ble) but we do have -instead of thirteen, we have eleven parking
- we have thirteen parking spaces . We require depending upon how
the Building Commissioner wants to read it, the present building
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 46
is fifty by fifty or twenty-five hundred square feet for retail ,
'
We are adding eleven hundred and thirty square feet for (unintel-
ligible) for a total of thirty-six, thirty square feet of retail
which would require seven car parking according to the formula.
The office space on the second and third floor is, again, it is
^ there we aren ' t adding to it - would require twenty - if you take
' the gross area, it would only take sixteen, if we count only and
' we take no area for the stairs and hall , so with that formula we
require twenty-three and we have thirteen ^ But maybe on the site
here we have available ( unintelligible) taking the building down
' and creating parking, we cannot provide parking (unintelligible)
property line so we are making use of (unintelligible) again the
owner having to come back or by making use of the building that
. he has . From the owner ' s point of view, I think it would be nice
.
(unintelligible) if we could build it (unintelligible) there is
' nothing in the building that is , except for this structure of
' framing system, we have (unintelligible) Mr , DiPasqoale and,
. apart from the findings (unintelligible) and some of the joists
that need to be replaced the basic guts of the building (unintel-
ligible) On the other side of the building Mr ^ Lower will either
use wood siding, replace the present one or use brick, and we
would like to be open on that question . Our preference is to use
brick because it is maintenance free and would give a more
finished look to the building. As I said, we want to be upgrad-
ing a substandard building - it is an eyesore - it has not been
used for sometime -we will make it accessible for handicapped
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE! 47
people for coming in and using it. We ' ll reinforce the street
(unintelligible) and the only alternative we have if you don ' t
grant this variance is to take it down and build a one-story
building which we can do under the zoning regolations. We have
enough parking places but we think it is very important to keep
this building and update it, the best we can. We are going
through the stages of applying to the State for other variances,
in terms of using the woodframe building for multiple use . Thank
yoo^
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions from members of the Board?
MR . WEAVER! In understanding the history of this building, has
the third floor ever been used?
'
MR . SHARMA: What we found there is enough storage material
indicated for another use. There isn ' t enough height there.
MR . WEAVER! You found some storage material?
MR. SHARMA: Yes . There is an interior stairway connecting the
first to the second and third floors - more than ten feet height .
MR. HEAVER : Did you see any evidence on the second and third
floor of active development, utilization?
MR. SHARMA: (unintelligible)
'
MR. LONER: You mean in respect to what is in the building or
'
what it is being used for just recently?
MR . NEAVERZ Well my memory is that the interior of the building
the second and third floor were storage rooms^
. MR . LONER: Yes, about two carloads of electronic stuff in the
two floors, second and third - still there.
^
^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE: 48
MR , SHARMA: Yes , electronic equipment - still there ,
MR . WEAVER! Well what gets you in trouble with the parking
requirement is that you are creating a second and third floor to
be a used area. Is that right?
MR^ SHARMAZ Yes , correct. It is there and we had to
( unintelligible) money we had to Set in the building, we had to
get some kind of a return and the only return we can get is to
make it into offices.
MR. WEAVER ! However if you tear it down and pot this one-story
building op, you will avoid the sprinkler system, the elevator
and a few other ^ ^ , ^
MR . LONERt As it affects the third floor , yes^
. MR, SHARMA: That is correct .
.
MR. WEAVER : And it would meet the Zoning Ordinance and You
wouldn ' t have to come here?
MR . SHARMA: That is correct . '
MR. LOWER : There is no guarantee that we are going to be able to
renovate this anyhow, we think we can but we ' ve got some serious
deadlines to meet and this is contingent on that also ,
MR . WEAVER: Has there been any feasibility study on the
alternative to create a new building there?
MR . SHARMA| Well we quickly looked at it in terms of - if the
building was not there, at this point it doesn ' t make sense to
pot any office space in that area. It is easy to pot in retail ,
or commercial space, if you are going to a brand new building, I
think a three-story building would be a serious question in my
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGEt 49
mind, to pot (unintelligible) office space and from that point of
view we could build a five thousand square feet, single story
retail space which would require ten parking spaces and we have
them. We have been talking with the people on the Planning Board
and (unintelligible) Board and they think it should be kept~
MR^ BOOTH: Would you go through the calculations of the parking
spaces? You said a few moments ago that you had a deficiency
that is substantially smaller than what is listed in your
application.
MR . SHARMA! The three columns - the gross floor area of it is -
the footprint of the building, we would require twenty-seven but
if we take out the area that was stairs and (unintelligible) and
the halls within the building and apply the formula only to the
net space for office, it would require only twenty-three . Now I
will leave it to Mr . Hoard to^ ~ ,
MS* FARRELL: Which is the way?
SECRETARY HOARD: This Board made an interpretation on that in a
Court Street appeal some time ago and ruled that it is the gross
space - total space.
MR^ SHARMA: Then we need to determine (unintelligible)
MR, BOOTH! Why do you have thirteen instead of eleven?
MR, SHARMAt We have chanSed. ^ .
MR . BOOTH: The configuration?
MR. SHARMA! Yes . We were coming in here and parking this way
( pointing to the chart ) now, two reasons, there is a big sign
here, so we cannot come in and by changing it we could pick op
-' -- ---- '
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE! 50
two more spaces.
MR. BOOTHT So with what Mr . Hoard has just said, you are going
to be deficient fourteen spaces, then?
MR. SHARMA! Correct. But we are making use of the building that
is already there .
MR. BOOTH! When you say in your application that the building
will be masonry clad, is that what you mean by brick?
MR. SHARMAZ That ' s right . We have under the application, the
guidelines that we have to retain the wood framing intact. ~ ^ ^
the foundation by start laying the brick and apply it to the wood
framing (unintelligible) - it can be done ^ Right now we are try-
ing to explore how successful we will be in (unintelligible) the
boilding^ It seems to leave either six or eight inches (unintel-
ligible) brought back (unintelligible) contractors look at it ,
their opinion was that if the legal foundation (unintelligible )
serious point where it has settled down, the building ( unintelli-
gible) ^ For some reason on the north and the south ends, the
building is very strai8ht^ On the east and west side, there is
settlement ^
SECRETARY HOARDZ Do you know how long it has been leaning like
that?
MR. SHARMA: I don ' t know.
MR, LONER : It has been getting progressively worse for the last
ten years or so^
SECRETARY HOARV I was just wondering how much the City would
charge for an encroachment^
--
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 51
MR . SHARMA: The building is setting right here and - along this
point there is a downspout coming down and the water keeps (unin-
telligible ) into the ground .
MR. LONERt The Fire Department should have let it born down ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Might I ask the reason for the proposed
one-story addition, is it simply a matter of economics, you need
the additional floor square footage , is that the reason. I mean ,
it seems to me obvious - let me spin out the rest of my thought -
that you pick op additional parking if you weren ' t to have the
additional area .
MR. SHARMA: Well we are taking down two buildings which are off
to the rear of the property and we lost some income~ Secondly? I
think it reinforces ( unintelligible) more and third, the existing
property line - we cannot park for some distance anyway, we have
to leave, I think, it is twenty feet, or so.
MR . BOOTH: Have you explored finding parking off this property
that would be assigned to this building?
MR. LONERZ Not really . I ' ve checked out properties that are
adjacent to this and I ' ve had a couple of meetings with the guy
that owns Cornell Laundry, which owns all the property but the
corner one and that I could boy but it wouldn ' t provide enough
parking and would be a prohibitive price so - there is nothing
close to it. And I think it would be too expensive to have to
provide parking for this particular building because we ' ve got a
problem here as to the cost of the two different projects . It
cost maybe four hundred thousand or four hundred fifty thousand
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 52
to renovate this building and it cost about two hundred fifty
thousand to build a brand new building - a one story building, so
' when you start figuring extra costs for providing parking, I
' think that it would not even be worth considering, to be truthful
' in comparison to what - this is at a point where we can 8o one
way or the other and, certainly I ' m interested in doing this, if
' it is going to be good for the community to restore this, if I
can restore it to where it will be feasible to own it so that I
don ' t have to take money out of my pocket, but if I do, then I
might consider going some other way .
'
MR . SCHWAB! What about one-story offices, is that feasible?
�
'
MR . LONER: One-story offices? No. As a matter of fact there is �
too many office spaces in the City now, I believe . I think where �
the YMCA was, they can ' t rent those . My only feeling was , here,
that if I provided office spaces on two floors and provided an
. elevator so that I am providing first class access and we can
. renovate it at a price that we can - a price that is cheaper , we
could rent them probably .
MR. SCHWAB: No, I guess my question was, the third floor , you
say you would have to raise the roof to make office spaces - not
' make the third floor office space, just make the second floor .
MR . LONER : Well you can ' t restore the outside of the building,
see , without using the space , otherwise, if you aren ' t going to
use it, just tear it off . It cost a lot of money to restore,
whether you use it or not - you can ' t restore something and then
let it set vacant ^ At least that is my opinion^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAC0 53
MR . SHARMAt To answer your question, the height (unintelligible)
only along this line - we have the height and that is what we are
building. What we will do is - a kind of a lean-to roof on this
side - the Sable end,
MR. LONER! I appreciate all comments.
MS. JOHNSON ! Across the street on State Street, isn ' t that the
Elks Lodge? It seems like there is a big vacant lot there?
MR, SHARMA: There is a gas station in front, across the street
is Chef Peking.
MS. JOHNSONt Oh, that ' s righty I ' m in the wrong block .
MR . SHARMA! Cornell Laundry on the east side^ And Ceracche is
opposite the Cornell Laundry.
MR . BOOTH: Does this building have any local historic
designation?
MR. SHARMA! What we have been told by the Historic people -
maybe somebody here can speak more so - it could possible be that
it is historic - but it is not right now.
MR . WEAVER: Did I indirectly understand that this rehabilitation
is dependent upon preservation money?
MR. LONER! It is not dependent on that, that ' s ^ ^
MR. WEAVER: Without it , you couldn ' t do it?
MR. LOWER! Nell , no, we aren ' t even relying on any preservation
money , none at all , the only thing here that we are interested in
is the tax shelter and probably that is the only way that this
can even be restored with some tax advantage, otherwise, you
can ' t consider putting four hundred and fifty thousand dollars in
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 54
a building when you can build a brand new one-story that you know
you can rent, when you may not be able to rent offices because
they are going to be second class - you are putting that kind of
money in it, so to answer your question, we have pretty near
given op getting any money from preservation - Historic but we
are interested in getting the tax incentive.
MR ^ SHARMA| Income tax roles would allow some deductions
( unintelligible) less money . . ( unintelligible)
MR^ WEAVER: It sore qualifies.
MR , LONER: It has to be seventy-five percent of the outside
walls.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! Further questions from members of the Board?
MR ^ BOOTH: Did we see the schematic diagram?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAQ That ' s the front elevation,
MR ^ BOOTH! What if you did not build the extension to the east,
the one-story ?
MR . SHARMAt Well there are two reasons we have given^ One is to
recap some of the income lost (unintelligible) taking on two
buildings and I think (unintelligible) employ more and more
stores and I think they support each other if you have three or
four different stores , He found that when doing the building in
Colle8etown, we have seven stores and each one helps the other
one and we have a better climate for retail . We are not adding
(unintelligible) and if we don ' t do this building
( unintelligible)
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' d like to see the plans that you have over
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt
there if you would be so good as to pass them along?
MR . BOOTH: Do you have any specific information on parking
difficulties in that part of the City?
MR . SHARMA: If you want my frank opinion, I have never found
any problem anywhere in the City, including Colle3etown and I
have been an architect for five years ^ ^ ^
MR. BOOTH: That cannot be true .
MR ^ SHARMA: (unintelligible ) and I have always been able to find
a parking space but to come back to your question, there is
enough off-street parking, metered parking in front and the five
or six times that I have Sone to this building I always found
parking*
MR, LONER: I think there are some times down there when there
isn ' t an abondancy of parking but generally speaking I think
there is parking on the street . I never seem to have a problem -
I may have to 8o half a block away but that ' s rare . But I think
if you were to provide thirteen parking spaces there, most of the
time I would think that that would take care of the parking
there, maybe I ' m wron8^
MS. JOHNSON ! Is it true that if any of these were restaurants
then there would have to be lots more spaces?
SECRETARY HOARDZ If they were restaurants? Yes they would
require much more parking.
MR^ BOOTH: Two hundred and fifty square feet is for office
space?
SECRETARY HOARD : Retail is five hundred.
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 56
MS. FARRELL: I just want to say that this building is on bus
routes and very walkable ,
MR. LOWER ! I ' m sorry , I didn ' t hear what you said,
MS. FARRELL : Well this building does seem to be on bus routes
and very walkable to the downtown to justify maybe there isn ' t
such a great need for parking.
MR. SHARMA: (unintelligible) probably would have to do it anyway
for handicapped regulations unless we can have a motorized
stairway . It will attract (unintelligible) tenants . There
aren ' t many office spaces available in this town with the
regulation.
MR. BOOTH: In calculating, Tom, the off-street parking, is there
a separate calculation for the retail part and then a separate
calculation for the office part?
SECRETARY HOARDt Yes ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Thank you 8entlemen^ Is
there anyone else out there who would like to speak in favor of
granting this variance? (no one) Is there anyone who would like
to speak in opposition to granting this variance? (no one) That
being the case it is oors ^
- --- — '
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 57
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO. 1650 535-537 NEST STATE STREET ^
MR, SCHWAB: The Planning Board is not concerned about the
parking .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAK The Planning Board said - well the staff
recommendation ^ ^ ^ .
SECRETARY HOARDt It has public transportation .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right. .
MR, NEAVERZ The Planning Board says that it is an important .
building that provides an attractive entrance on Nest State `
Street , . .
MR. BOOTH! I hope that is in the future tense .
MR . WEAVER! I just read it from the minutes. .
^
SECRETARY HOARDt What does it attract? .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The motion is to recommend approval and the .
motion was seconded and carried.
MR . BOOTH: Has there been any discussion of designation of this
as a local landmark?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAK There could be, I don ' t think there is any dif-
ficulty with that - as it notes, there are six buildings in the `
area, that have been declared eligible for the national register
of historic places - anything that is declared eligible for the
national register can automatically be considered by both state
and local legislation for local designation, if that is a ques-
tion .
MR. WEAVER: I ' m torn between two recommendations
( unintelligible) recommendation for rehabing the building. I ' m '
. .
. .
�
'
^
' BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE : 58
. frankly quite ignorant about historical significance apparently,
. I think that structure - with my background and training - urges
' me to be in favor of its demolition for the good of the '
neighborhood and possibly the owners. So, are there people on
the Board, Michael , (unintelligible) historical significance does '
' the thing only have to be old to be significant? '
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: No I think that was addressed within the '
`
' appellant ' s appeal , when the architect very correctly noted that '
`
' there are few remaining three-story commercial buildings in the `
'
County . So it does have - or is somewhat unique in that respect . .
,
SECRETARY HOARD: I suspect that the former Fire Chief knows what .
`
happened to the rest of them. ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Nevertheless. ^ , .
^
MR, WEAVER! Nell , then when I heard that this might be brick .
veneer I was startled because I thought that it is significant ,
because it looks like an old baro and they want to - because of
^
its size, they want to protect it, ,
,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! You are correct in the intent of the legisla-
tion* Again, if we are going to get outside of the scope of the .
"
Zoning Ordinance, for the moment, and we obviously are, the in- .
tent of the initial legislation is to keep intact, keep the inte-
grity of the structure insofar as is possible, the tax reform act
and its amendment, 78, require the retention of three sides,
seventy-five percent of the exterior walls intact . Now there is
also provisions at the State level which allow you to essentially '
take other precautions other than the normal ones, for fire safe-
,
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! - .
ty in this sort of instance, so the question of whether , in fact ,
it has to be brick veneer , I think they have been correctly in-
formed about - that is, it may not have to be brick veneer ,
right, but they are going under the assumption at the moment, as
I understand it , that they do have to have brick veneer to meet
the normal fire safety regulations , okay?
MR. WEAVER! Non-combustible exterior?
CHAIRMAN TOMLANI Non-combustible exterior . I mean, that is very,
very clear * So insofar as all the information they are
presenting as far as I can tell , they are accurate . It may not
come across perhaps as clearly to some of your as it does to me '
but it is correct, as far as I can tell .
MS . FARRELL: It seems like a bad joke to call a building '
historic ( unintelligible) and then say if you do anything with it
you have to pot brick on it , '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! Well that ' s a matter though that essentially is '
'
resolved between the State Historic Preservation Office and the
State Fire Codes, you see, in Albany . And if they are willing to '
go through that hurdle they may come out, by virtue of the Tax '
Reform Act to the benefit by virtue of the finances. I know that '
is a long and involved preamble for those of you who aren ' t fami-
liar with the legislation and the regulations but it is possible '
for them to see their way through there . Now whether , in fact,
coming back to the Zoning Ordinance, putting on the hat that I am .
supposed to be wearing here, you still have the questions of
practical difficulty and the regular area variance tests . .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE: 60 '
MS. FARRELL: What about the problems with parking?
CHAIRMAN TOMLANt The problem is essentially parking, yes ^
MR . BOOTH! I guess I ' m uncomfortable because they ' ve presented
no information about parking needs are or have been in that part
of the City . This isn ' t just one or two parking spaces, this is
a very large number of parking spaces. If you increase commer-
cial uses in that area I would think - hopefully - a lot more
people would be going there, I mean the fact that it is not dif-
ficult to find parking spaces there now may be a reflection of
what is there now, not many people are going to that particular
point of business.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAK Well I won ' t quarrel with that insofar as the
documentation. My only observation is that the area is highly '
-it both benefits and suffers from a high turnover in the volume
of traffic in that area, in any event. In a sense this is by
virtue of a use that is completely consistent with the uses in '
the area^ I guess, what I am saying is there doesn ' t seem to be,
at least by my observation, a whole lot of resident on-site par-
king along Meadow Street , in any event or on those - in the adja-
cent parcels . There is further on State Street, as you come in
further - you come in to the internal (unintelligible) but that
is only my observation, obviously, again, it is not backed op
with any statistics or figures.
MS. FARRELL : I wonder how parking meters then would figure into
the parking requirements, have they ever counted? I mean, if
there is parking^ ^ ,
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 61
SECRETARY HOARK No. This only deals with off-street parking.
MS. FARRELL: What are those - I mean, they are just sort of a
fixture ( unintelligible ) you know, that you don ' t count them for
any thing , they just are there?
SECRETARY HOARD: Parking meters? I don ' t want to speak for the
Council but I think that the idea was that they are requiring a
parking space for every car necessarily as generated on the prop-
erty, they are saying, you ' ve got to pick op some of the load and
not dump them all on the street.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! My own feeling, just to go a little bit fur-
ther , I am exposing my own prejudices obviously, but I think , if
it is the case , if the appellant in this instance , in my opinion ,
is willing to take on the hurdles and difficulties associated
with this particular project , given the history of the building,
that certainly the practical difficulties associated with the
setting and all that we have heard before are something -are just
something that we ' ve heard time and time again, it is not going
to be moved on the lot . It is a bit of a risk, I would suggest
that perhaps we might tolerate, if we were subject to grant a
variance, that we would tie it to this specific project because
one would wonder , immediately, exactly what the scheme might be '
if somewhere along the line a snag came op and the appellant de-
cided to do something else, whether we might regret, and I would '
just like to speculate on that , having granted the variance under '
any other condition or under the same conditions for a different
sort of a building other than what we find. '
`
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 62
MR, BOOTH: Well it would be my understanding that if that were
the case , this variance would not apply .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! Well that would be my understanding too , but I
' wanted to make^ ^ ^
MR. BOOTH : I would agree that that should be said, if you think
that is a concern.
CHAIRMAN TOMLANt But I am obviously pushing this conversation
because of my own knowledge of what is possible .
MR. BOOTH: Tom, if they didn ' t build a portion of this as the
eastern extension of one story, do you have any idea how many
parking spaces that would create and how many it would delete
from what they are required to provide?
SECRETARY HOARD: I haven ' t figured it out. Probably two spaces.
`
MR . SHARMA! Two spaces.
'
MS. FARRELL: Twp spaces would be added?
MR * SHARMA! The question is if we take off the addition on the
east side , how many parking spaces would we lose?
MR . BOOTH: It would So down by two .
MR, SHARMA: Yes^
SECRETARY HOARD : And would it provide two more spaces?
MR . SHARMAt No, you cannot park there.
MR . WEAVER: Front yard .
'
SECRETARY HOARD: You can park in the front yard in a business
district.
MR. WEAVER! The twenty feet doesn ' t apply?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So you pick op four? You pick op two by virtue '
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 63
of the loss of square footage and you pick op another two,
essentially, the other way? Is that true?
SECRETARY HOARD: Rough guess .
MS , JOHNSON! So they are still deficient nine.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Nine at that point.
MS. JOHNSONt I know, still deficient , ten .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Nine or ten .
SECRETARY HOARD: I think what he said in his presentation was
that he needs that addition to make the thing work financially,
SO , ^ ^
MR. BOOTQ Well I know that is what he said but we see jolly
little evidence that that is the case ,
SECRETARY HOARD ! Well it is the retail that is going to be the
money maker . Office space may even be a liability .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Do I hear a motion?
'
--
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: / |
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of William
Lower for an area variance to permit the conversion of the
existing retail/storage building at 535-37 Nest State Street to
retail and office use, and to permit construction of a one story
addition for retail use on the east side of the existing
three-story building. The decision of the Board was as follows:
MS, FARRELLt I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in Appeal Number 1650^
MS, JOHNSON: I second the motion ,
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) The applicant appears to have a practical difficulty in
obtaining fourteen ( 14) more required parking spaces for
this large commercial building they can ' t obtain them without
significantly altering the size of the existing, somewhat
historical building .
2) The proposed changes would improve a very dilapidated
building which does have some historical si8nificance ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further discussion?
MR. BOOTH: I ' m going to vote against the variance because I
don ' t think there has been adequate explanation of what alterna-
tives there might be for the parking on - I ' m concerned that this
( unintelligible ) variance , Even though I ' m going to vote against
it, I would urge those of you who may vote in favor of it to con-
sider deleting the provision of that off-street parking - I think
when you start putting that in as a justification you may be Set- `
tin8 into some difficulties . '
^
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 65
MS . FARRELL! (unintelligible)
MR. BOOTH: The reference to metered parking on the streets is a
justification.
MS. FARRELLt I would be happy to remove that .
MR . BOOTH: It is somewhat of an unfriendly suggestion, I realize
that.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Does the second accept the amendment?
MS . JOHNSON: Yes.
SECRETARY HOARD: The VOTE IN 1650 IS 3 YES; 3 NO VOTES
VARIANCE REQUEST DENIED FOR LACK OF FOUR (4) AFFIRMATIVE VOTES
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Do we have another motion?
MR ^ BOOTH: I would move that the Board table this and ask the
applicant to come back with further information on
both parking needs in that area and the possibility
of acquiring additional parking ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Do we have a second?
MR* HEAVER! Mr . Chairman^ ^ ^
MR ^ BOOTHt That may not be proper but that is what I would like
to have ^ ^ ^
MR. HEAVERt We already had a motion on the floor ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right ^
MR, WEAVER ! I assume we are back to square one and I just want
to make sore that this motion is appropriate - that we are not
about obliged to have a negative motion (unintelligible)
'
CHAIRMAN TOMLANZ At this point the variance is denied, right
we are not going forward . The point of having the other motion '
`
-
'` ^�---- --- --- ` ' --~- -
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 66 '
was in, essentially in keeping with our policy to have a motion '
on record the other way . Okay? Now what has been suggested is '
that in addition we consider the notion of deferring action and, '
in a sense, that motion might well sopercede any further action . '
MR. HEAVER: Okay . `
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So we are all clear?
MR . WEAVER: I have no problem with that, '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You have no problem with it.
MR. BOOTH: I would have actually made that earlier but I thought
the previous motion (unintelligible)
`
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! Okay , Is that understood by everyone? '
MR , BOOTH: I would not like to have on this record to deny this,
that is why I made this motion, ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay , so it has been moved and seconded that we
`
defer action until the appellant, if he is willing to come
forward with additional information, we would consider it at the
next meeting, true? I seconded the motion. .
SECRETARY HOARD: ^ ^ ^ comment about deadline, .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAQ Please come forward . .
MR . SHARMA: There are several points I would like to make. .
`
(unintelligible) that this Board is only to make it for whatever
hardship is applicable to the particular lot and now they are
extending it to a whole district. Secondly, the Planning
Department is responsible to oversee (unintelligible) and they .
( unintelligible) at length what the implication will be of not
having enough off-street parking on this lot and they said that .
'
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 67
(unintelligible) decided, if somebody wants to rent an office
space and they need parking, and we don ' t have it , he won ' t rent
it . And thirdly, we are running out of time. We have three
months to do all the work, so you leave os no choice for the
second alternative by denying this variance.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: It ' s not that we are denying, ^ . it is just the
fact that we need additional information, if , in fact, we are
going to make a reasonable decision and what we are asking yoo,
if you would take the time to assemble the information such that
we can make what we believe is a proper decision, Now, both you
and the owner should consider that - that ' s what we are asking.
MR ^ SHARMA: Nell , as I said earlier this evening, that you are
limiting (unintelligible ) hardship to this particular lot^ I ' m
not questioning^ , ^
MR. BOOTH: What are you saying?
MR, SHARMA: If it can be done - we don ' t have the time ^
MS^ FARRELL: It seems to me it is a fairly common thing when
there is not a real good parking (unintelligible) to ask people
to present some sort of parking study or to ask people to rent
parking places nearby - I mean - that has been a fairly common
approach that I ' ve seen the Board take^ That ' s related to the
hardship of the particular lot, I mean, but it ' s the parking
related to that lot, you know, that there are those many parking
spaces required, this many are provided, where is the difference
- why is there a difference, I mean, is there a need there? '
SECRETARY HOARD: If I may, I think there is a problem with a
-- --
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 68
project of this magnitude , asking the appellant to come op with
rental parking somewhere else or lease parking. Because once
they make that investment in the property, if they then can ' t
lease the parking spaces at a later date, they will be back here
and they will have a - what I think would be a clear hardship
-where they have invested a considerable amount of money and sod-
denly they can ' t come op with parking anymore. And then this
Board will sort of be blackmailed into approving the - at a later
date - I think it is wanted on what the proposal is or - you are
creating a real enforcement problem if we have to monitor parking
in all the parts of the City ,
MR . BOOTH: What are you saying? Can ' t we impose parking
requirements on a project of this size?
SECRETARY HOARD: I am saying that if you tie this in to that
into some requirement for leased parking, with this kind of an
investment, it isn ' t something that they are going to be able to
undo the next year , if they can ' t lease parking spaces^ So then
they would be back here asking for a parking variance again. So
if there is a parking problem in the area, then I think they are
going to have trouble getting the leased parking. If there isn ' t
a parking problem in the area, then I think they will be able to
get leased parking until there becomes a parking problem in the '
area^
MR , BOOTH: What is the time problem? '
MR . LONER: Well we have until the end of December to meet these
guidelines set forth by the Internal Revenue. '
^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 69
MR, BOOTH ! Why until the end of December?
MR^ LOWER: Well because it has to be done by then according to
their guidelines .
MR. SHARMA! The Tax Reform Act may take investment credits out
of the tax bill .
MR. BOOTH: It may ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAQ It may, but it probably won ' t , Again, to clar-
ify this. There is discussion of a whole wave of changes in Con-
gress at present that will , essentially, reform the Internal Rev-
enue Code - most of those have been stalled and they are not
likely to occur . This is one of those that isn ' t likely to oc-
cor ^ Now again, what Bill is saying is, in effect, that you have
to file the papers if he expects to get his tax write-off for
this calendar year - he has to file the papers by the end of the
year of intent that he is going to do this, okay? So, as I un-
derstand it, again, engineering it from a complete different
point of view , he could wait another month at no significant
loss, it means, that he, in fact, has to move a little faster the
balance of the year , but there isn ' t a yea or nay situation that
is - it is not the case that the project won ' t fly if he has to
wait another month. Now that ' s my reading, again, from a dif-
ferent point of view. Now wearing my other hat, coming back
rather less of an advocate and more by virtue of there is a mo-
tion on the floor to defer action and what , I guess, we are still
asking is, whether in fact you would accept that motion to come
back having prepared that information and for os to consider it '
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE: 70
next month?
MR. SHARMA: I don ' t know what you are suggesting that would
be different thirty days from now.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN ! Well essentially, the request is that you pro-
vide os information with respect to the parking in such a way as
we can examine it and see whether , in fact , it falls yea or nay
in your favor . I think, again, I may be speaking a little out of
line, but the Board at this point is at least willing to go so
far as to consider favorably your request to the point where we
are willing to allow you another month to develop material which
we need to justify the decision one way or the other ^ Okay? Is
that clear?
MR, SHARMA: Yes . You know parking (unintelligible) somewhere ^
Where is the parking ( unintelligible ) We can 8o back and prepare
some kind of a study bot , you know, it is not going to defend in
a legal sense - if this Board requests it, we will do it , I
think we will lose thirty days of work ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Richard? You are the mover of the motion^
MR^ BOOTH: This is a big project . I am surprised that you would
come in here with no evidence of what the parking situation is in
that part of the City ^ This is a - we have project after project
�
where parking is a concern , I understand that time may be of
essence and I appreciate those difficulties but this is a big
variance - I don ' t remember another variance that we may have
granted of this size, anything approaching this size^ We are '
seeing project after project where people are quibbling about two
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEZ 71
and three parking spaces~
MR. SHARMA! If it was evident to os by talking to the Planning
Department that that would be a concern, we would have made a
study but the Planning Department indicated that there is no
problem there. And they are responsible for the whole City ' s
planning and parking and other aspects of the^ . ^ .
MR. BOOTH: But we are responsible for issuing variances.
MR, SHARMA: Correct,
MR. BOOTH: And we have to have a sufficient showing that it is
necessary ^
MR. SHARMAZ We will come back ,
MR . BOOTH: I don ' t see that showin8^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You will come back, did I hear that?
MR . SHARMA: Well if that is the decision of the Board^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s what I wanted to hear .
MR . SHARMA: We are not enjoying it.
MS, FARRELL! (unintelligible)
CHAIRMAN TOMLANt We have to 8o on to the next case ^
MR. BOOTH: We haven ' t voted.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Shall we have a vote on this motion? 1650B
MS, FARRELLZ This is just to defer , couldn ' t we just have a
voice vote?
CHAIRMAN TOMLANZ You want a roll call vote?
SECRETARY HOARD: May I just bring op one thing?
MR. SCHWAB: I don ' t understand what a no vote means on this .
motion.
'~ --- -
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 72
MS. FARRELL: It doesn ' t, we are just going to (unintelligible)
MR, SCHWAB : Well what would a no vote indicate?
SECRETARY HOARD: They are going to run into a problem with
trying to find parking in that area because (unintelligible) the
Chef Peking. The Chef Peking has canvassed the neighborhood for
available parking to meet their parking requirements and I think
they have pretty well sewed it up .
MR . BOOTH: What you are saying then is that there are parking
problems in that part of the City ~
SECRETARY HOARD! What I am saying that Chef Peking couldn ' t
satisfy its own parking requirements so it had to 3o elsewhere
and there are other places within five hundred feet of Chef
Peking and there is a big overlap between the two when you draw
the five hundred foot lines . I just want the Board to understand
that they may come back with a very glum report, when they 8o
looking for leasable parking spaces.
MS. FARRELL: The way I see it too, the report might include
things like what are the available spaces on the street and at
what hours? Although we are not officially considering that, I
MR. HEAVER ! You know , we are being propositioned, if you will
pardon my language , the owner of this property has said " may I do
this" and part of what he is saying, may I do , is to supply less
`
than half of the parking reqoirement ^ We all know that there are
alternatives - viable alternatives for an owner of that property '
^
to use it within the scope of the Zoning Ordinance and so go
`
ahead and make the study if you would like, but this is the prop- '
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 73
osition that we have before os and if you could hear it or see it
better if somebody walks the neighborhood and says my goodness,
there isn ' t any parking, I don ' t mind, I ' ll try to be here next
month, but the proposition is to cover that much land and then
furnish half - when I say half, I mean parking, pardon me ,
MR . SCHWAB! I ' m inclined to agree with Charlie (unintelligible)
largely on those grounds that (unintelligible) too many parking,
and as he said, you can make a fine one-story building with - You
know - Code, I don ' t think they are going to find any parking
that easy . If they do, that is nirvana but they are saying they
doubt if they can do it ^ I ' m not basing my vote on any
supposition that they can do it^
MR^ HEAVER: Well there is another thing when we get involved
with financial feasibility (unintelligible) in that this project
is the only project available and that is only feasible if they
do not (unintelligible) Here there are alternatives that are
clear alternatives and no evidence that that ' s not economically
feasible too.
MR , BOOTH: I will withdraw my motion. Let ' s make a decision .
MR ^ WEAVER! He have a 3 - 3 vote on a positive motion and it
seems to me we ought to have a vote in the negative.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I will entertain a motion .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGEt 74
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1650B 535-37 NEST STATE STREET
MR, NEAVERt I move that the Board deny the area variance
requested in appeal number 165O,
MR, BOOT& I second the motion^
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT:
1 ) The proposal is to provide approximately half of the parking
requirement under the Zoning Ordinance ^
2) There was no showing by the applicant that other utilization
or other design on the property would not be feasible with
providing adequate parking.
VOTE ON #1650B 3 YES; 3 NO DENIED FOR LACK OF 4 AFFIRMATIVE
VOTES ^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 75
SECRETARY HOARD! The next appeal is appeal number 1651 for
114 SOUTH MEADOW STREET:
Appeal of Glenn E . Miller for an area variance for
deficient lot width and a deficient sideyard setback
under Section 30 , 25 , Columns 7 and 12 of the Zoning
Ordinance, to permit the conversion of the single-
family home at 114 South Meadow Street to an office.
The property is located in a B4 (Business) Use Dis-
trict in which the proposed use is permitted; however
under Section 30 ,57 the appellant most first obtain
an area variance for the listed deficiencies before a
building permit or a Certificate of Occupancy can be
issued for the proposed use.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Please identify yourself , where you live and
why you would like said variance.
MR . MILLER! My name is Richard Miller , brother of Glenn Miller ,
I live at 70 Front Street , Binghamton, New York and the purpose
for this variance is to open our own offices in that single-
family residence ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLANt How long have you owned the property?
MR . MILLEK 9 months .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAQ Are there going to be any changes to the
exterior of the building?
MR. MILLEK Exterior there will be some windows pot in that
haven ' t been there and that ' s about it . He have a chimney torn
down, new roof, paint pot on, that ' s about it but as far as
changing the exterior , no.
MR. BOOTH! How are you going to 8o from one parking space to '
four?
MR, MILLER: We are going to change the yard - the grass is '
coming out and it is going to be paved or gravelled. ^
'
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BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE : 76
MR . BOOTH: So parking will be in back?
MR. MILLER: Righty you will be able to drive in and torn to your
. left and there will be four spots right there with room to torn
around and drive forward out of the driveway.
MR . BOOT& The driveway is on the south side?
MR, MILLER: North side ,
MR . BOOTH: North side .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN ! Have you had any comments from your neighbors
about your project, one way or the other?
'
MR. MILLER: No , The owner of the antique store was just glad
' to see that hoose starting to take some shape, nothing from the
AM/PM ,
MR. BOOTHt Has that hoose been occupied op until you bought it?
MR . MILLER| No it hasn ' t. The owner ' s mother-in-law lived in
there and she passed away .
MR . BOOTH: So it has been vacant for how long?
' MR, MILLER: I really don ' t know. But it was vacant when we
'
bought it .
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions from members of the Board?
. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of granting
. this variance? (no one) Is there anyone who would like to speak
. in opposition to granting this variance? (no one) That being
the case, it is ours .
'
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE ! 77
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Glenn and
Richard Miller for an area variance to permit the conversion of
the single-family home at 114 South Meadow Street to an office .
The decision of the Board was as follows:
MR . BOOTH: I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1651 ^
MS . FARRELL| I second the motion ,
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT :
1 ) The proposal will not exacerbate any of the existing
deficiencies of the existing structure .
2) The existing deficiencies are a result of the size of the
property and location of the present building and it would be
extremely difficult for the owners to change those
circumstances ,
3) The existing deficiencies are relatively minor in nature.
4) The proposal is completely consistent with the character of
the nei8hborhood.
VOTE: 6 YES; O NO VARIANCE GRANTED
07A MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 78
SECRETARY HOARDt The last appeal is APPEAL NO. 1652 FOR 129 PARK
PLACE*.
Appeal of HOMES, Incorporated for an area variance
for deficient lot size and one deficient side yard
under Section 30,260) (3) (Special Conditions for
Group Care Residences) of the Zoning Ordinance , to
permit conversion of the single family dwelling at
129 Park Street to a group care residence for nine
residents^ The property is located in an R2b (Res-
idential , One- and Two-family ) Use District, in
which the proposed use is permitted; however , under
Section 30^26, unless the property meets special
conditions prescribed therein , the appellants most
obtain an area variance before a building permit or
' Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the pro-
posed use.
' MS, HOLMBERC: My name is Anna Holmberg and I ' m from Wiggins ,
Holmberg, Galbraith and Holmberg, representing HOMES, Inc^ and
with me is Jan Beckman who is the Executive Director of HOMES ,
Inc . As stated in our application, this is an application for an
area variance from the special conditions applicable to group
care residences. There is no change of use involved. Under
State law community residence of this sort is deemed to be a sin-
gle family onit ^ This is presently a single-family home and its
.
use will not change under the interpretations of the law of the
State ^ We have a side yard and an area deficiency ^ The square
footage area of the property is approximately forty-one hundred
square feet ^ Under the special conditions, we would be required
to have six thousand square feet . Obviously we can ' t do anything
'
about the lot size ^ It is right across from Washington Park - it
' is on the corner of Hest Court and Park Street and the park will
be available for use of the residents - as it is for all of the
�
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGEZ 79
residents in that neighborhood. As far as getting the approval
of the State Department of Mental Hygiene, as this project goes
forward and as far as they are concerned, as the renovations are
planned, it meets their standards for approval . I don ' t believe
we ' ve had anything but a couple of phone calls from residents
about notification of this - as calling and saying they supported
the project. I brought with os copies of some letters, three
letters that were addressed to Mr , Hoard - I don ' t know if you
have received those yet ( unintelligible) These are from neighbors
of one of the other facilities of HOMES , Inc. on Albany Street,
attesting to HOMES, Inc ^ ' s values as a good neighbor . Essential-
ly all that we are asking for is an area variance - we have no
way of , obviously, changing the lot size and doing anything about
the side yard ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions from members of the Boad?
MS ^ FARRELL: Do you plan to add an exterior staircase?
MS , BECKMAW Yes.
MS^ FARRELL: And where would that be?
MS. BECKMAW It will be coming off the side of the building -
from the second floor - the side - I ' m not very good on
directions so please bear with me - it is not the street side, it
is the other side of the building.
MS. FARRELLZ So it comes down the side - the front side, then
how close does that get to the sideyard line? I mean, does that
extend the outside of the hoose? .
'
MS ^ HOLMBERG: I think if you look on Exhibit B, you can see it
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 80
is six feet from the wall where it is shown as a bedroom - one
hundred and thirty square feet ,
MR . WEAVER: Is that a thirty-six or a forty?
MS. BECKMAN: I ' m sorry I didn ' t hear you .
MR . NEAVERZ Is that a thirty-six or a forty inch stairway?
MS. BECKMAN! I believe it is a thirty-six.
MS. FARRELL: You know, when I looked at that property, I was
positive there wasn ' t six feet there, I could barely squish
through - it felt like one foot on that side, maybe a foot and
one-half or two feet maybe? Is it really six feet?
MS . BECKMAN: I can honestly say I didn ' t measure it myself ,
(unintelligible)
MS. FARRELL! There is a fence there and I was really squished
trying to get between the fence and the house . It didn ' t look
like six feet at all , it looked like about one and one-half .
MR ^ SCHWAB: Is the fence on the lot line?
MS, FARRELL: I don ' t know. So then the stairway extends into
that space more?
MS, BECKMAN: The stairway as it is currently being used would
extend more into that space . The purpose of the stairway being
there at all is to meet the applicable fire and safety codes in
line with our certification. Does the stairway have to be in
that particular location? The answer is no, that was obviously
the feasibility study done by that particular architect who took
a look at it and suggested that was the most reasonable place to ^
pot it . I think if there are major objections to it (onintelli- ^
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 81
gible)
MS, FARRELL! It seems fairly unsettling to me to pot it on the
front of - I mean it is the front side of a single-family house .
MS . BECKMAV One suggestion that we had from the Planning Board
meeting was to perhaps torn it so that it was on the side.
MR. BOOTQ How did you get to two parking spaces being required
-off-street parking. I ' m having a little trouble figuring that
out . I ' m sore I ' m missing something.
MS . BECKMAN! Being required?
MR . BOOTH ! The off-street parkin84
MS. HOLMBERC: Well this, we are not changing any oseage here, it
will still be deemed or consider it to be as if it were a single
family dwelling.
SECRETARY HOARD: It is under Section 30^26-64, Off-Street
Parking as required for other residential uses except where
residents are not permitted to own or operate motor vehicles, in
which case one space shall be provided for each single
residential supervisor or married couple who are supervisors for
the minimum of two spaces in any oase^
MR, BOOTH : Where are you now?
SECRETARY HOARD: Top of page 30 , 21 ^ Their attorney and I came
op with that - talking about the occupancy of the building.
MR. BOOTH: How does that compare , Tom, with what is on page .
3O .29? '
SECRETARY HOARD : It overrides that.
MR. BOOTH: In this situation the residents are not allowed to '
- ' '-- - - ~—
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE: 82
. own and operate motor vehicles, is that right?
MS . BECKMAN : That is correct . Two spaces will be used for staff
vehicles .
MR, BOOTH ! The staff is there twenty-four hours a day?
MS. BECKMAN: Yes.
MR, BOOTH: Does that mean that some of them live there or they
are on shifts or?
MS . BECKMAN: We have what is called the modified shift
(unintelligible) and basically what that means is that there are
certain staff assigned as night counsellors for X number of
nights in a row. There is a residence manager (unintelligible)
shift basis (unintelligible) so it is considered (unintelligible)
MR . WEAVER: I don ' t want to get (unintelligible) but William L^
Long and Associates in their ( unintelligible) I appreciate that
this is ( unintelligible) and I assume you probably were directed
by trying to have it, not only separate from the other stairway
but remote from any (unintelligible) yet as far as side yard is
concerned it looks to me as if you would be trampling on and
doing maximum impact behind that window would have less impact on
that side yard.
MS. FARRELL: Also, if this is drawn to scale, I maintain that
this is over the neighbor ' s property fence and whether that
( unintelligible) there is a fence there, there is a fence right
behind there.
MS . BECKMAN: My response to the concern about the stairway which .
is certainly in line with what that side yard looks like makes a .
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 83
lot of sense - is that we certainly are willing to
( unintelligible ) this stairway to make it something that is
'
amenable .
' MS , FARRELL: So where you are talking about putting it is behind
this , right there (pointing to chart)?
MS. BECKMAN: I see that that might be one option, however I have
to (unintelligible) I am not an architect but I - the purpose of
the stairway there is to give a second exit and so it is a
question of placing it for a second exit, I think that - it looks
. to me as though this could be reworked,
MR . WEAVER: Who has to approve this other than this crazy Board?
Who else?
MS, BECKMAN! We have - do you want the local?
'
MR. WEAVER: No, I want to know who this architect has to
satisfy? It seems to me that ^ , ^
'
MS. BECKMAN: We have - our site studies consist of an initial
go-around by me, then the field inspection by New York State Of-
fice of Mental Hygiene, then a feasibility report that is con-
ducted by an architect, then a review by the Office of Mental
Hygiene, Bureau of Community Living, which is based in Albany,
then a report is resubmitted back to the Agency where it is again
reviewed by our Board of Directors^ , ^
MR, WEAVER! Let me help you .
MS. BECKMAN: I wish you would.
MR , NEAVERZ Ordinarily a single-family dwelling has no
requirement for an alternate exit so I assume it is Mental .
� - ^ MINUTES 9/3/85 PACEt 84
Hygiene that is requiring it?
MS, BECKMAN! That ' s true .
MR. WEAVER: It is their approval , I don ' t want to get in an
argument with an absent architect but he is exiting from a
bedroom so - all the rest of it op there is bedroom too, so I
wouldn ' t think that he would be uncomfortable by choosing a
different bedroom. It is Mental Hygiene that has to approve it -
the design?
MS* BECKMAN: Ultimately Mental Hygiene will have to approve that
the exit meets code, I think . One can never tell about the State
of New York, there may be others ^
MR. BOOTH: The people who will live here, where are they right
' now, I mean, are they in the community or are they* . *
'
MS . BECKMAN! That is a question that often comes op, where are
these people, are we bringing them in or are they currently here
or where are they? (unintelligible) people who will reside in
this residence, as with all of our residences, are Tompkins Coun-
ty residents. In this particular instance , given the nature of
this particular community residence , most of these individuals
will be already in the community or will have been in and out of
the community. That ' s by virtue of the (unintelligible) disabled
conditions that generally would be found within ( unintelligible )
residing in this residence, I think in terms of more questions
that often come to os - this is obviously a de8ression - is the '
issue of saturation of these particular kinds of residences and
^
unfortunately one of the things that happens in this community,
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE: 85
as in all communities is the saturation happens sort of de facto
'
because individuals who would be residing in this particular kind
' of residence end op in congested, sob-standard, poor housing of
' one form or another which generally tends to become congregated
' in one area or another and that ' s more (unintelligible) to the
residents from here. We get referrals from the community sixty
percent of our referrals are from families (unintelligible) we
get some from the city hospitals , some referrals from the local
community hospital ( unintelligible)
MS^ FARRELL: How long are residents normally in your hooses? Is
it long term, is it short term?
' MS. BECKMAN: This particular residence is being designed to be
what we call a transitional residence which means there is a
heavy emphasis on skill development and support in order help
the people to lead more independent lives ^ We do have residences
however , that we offer , where the individuals have been living
for several years , it depends on the particular person and their
needs ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions from members of the Board?
Thank yoo^ It doesn ' t look as though there is anyone out there
to support or in opposition, either way^ So shall we deliberate?
^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACF^ ` .
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1652 129 PARK PLACE
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of HOMES, Inc .
for an area variance to permit conversion of the single family
dwelling at 129 Park Street to a group care residence for nine
residents . The decision of the Board was as follows +
MR, HEAVER � I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in Appeal No . 1652 with the condition that
the exterior metal stairway be located in the
southeast corner of the lot ,
MR^ TOMLAN� I second the motion .
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT�
1 ) Practical difficulty was shown as being the existing
deficiencies are not amenable to correction.
2) The use will be compatible with the general occupancy in the
neighborhood.
VOTE� 6 YES; O NO GRANTED N/CONDITION
`
`
,
`
- 87 -
I , BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board of Zoning
Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of Appeals numbered 1641 ,
1645, 1646, 1648, 1649, 1650, 1651 , and 1652 01648 was withdrawn) on
September 3, 1985 in the Common Council Chambers of City Hall , City of Ithaca,
New York, that I have transcribed same, and the foregoing is a true copy of
the transcript of the minutes of the meeting and the action taken of the
Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York on the above date, and
the whole thereof to the best of my ability.
I
Barbara Ru e
Recording Secretary
Sworn to before me this
=� day of 1985
Notary Public
JEAN J. HANKINSON
NOTARY PUBLIC,
1AxE OF:NEW YORK
QUALIFIED IN TON:?KINS COUNI 7
MY CC'rd�;11S3lCN ERPiRE�.I'iRCH 30,19_..
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE.' 1
/ BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEN YORK
September 3, 1985
SECRETARY HOARD'* The next appeal is APPEAL NO. 1647 for 505
SOUTH AURORA STREET**
Appeal of Stephen and Linda Hovanec for an area
variance for deficient setbacks for the front
yard and one side yard under Section 30.25, Col-
umns 11 and 13 of the Zoning Ordinance to permit
the conversion of the single family dwelling at
505 South Aurora Street to a two-family dwelling.
The property is located in an R2a (Residential ,
one- and two-family dwelling) Use District in
which the proposed use is permitted; however on-
der Section 30^57 the appellants most first ob-
tain an area variance for the listed deficiencies
before a building permit or certificate of occu-
pancy can be issued for the conversion.
MR . TAVELLI� My name is Paul Tavelli from the Law Firm of
Tavelli ? McDermott and Seldin, I am an attorney for Mr . Stephen
� Hovanec who sits on my left and he is the contract vendee for
premises at 505 S. Aurora Street, that is a fancy word that he is
buying the house. In the white jacket is Mr , Douglas McEver , he
owns the premises at the present time^ He has a contract to sell
the property to Mr ~ Hovance, contingent upon zoning approval ^
Now originally, apparently these two young men appeared in front
of the Planning Board by themselves, I had told them that I
thought it was a textbook case, where an area variance, but they
ran into some problems with owner-occupancy,, parking, stodents `
and a lot of issues that may or may not be germaine ^ First of '
all I would like to Sive a plot plan to each of the members of ,
the board just showing the particular premises as it sits on the '
`
,
`
`
-' -' '- ---- -- ---- -- -- ' -
' BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE� 2
lot . I would also like to file a letter from the prior owner ,
who owned the property from 1958 to 1976^ I only have one copy
of that letter , I just obtained it this afternoon. Now basically
' what you have is a side yard deficiency on the northerly side and
a setback deficiency . It is an unusually large lot for South
Hill . If you look at the plot plan, there is fifty-one feet side
yard on the south, or an excess of fifty feet anyway - this isn ' t
drawn by a surveyor but it ' s fairly close so you have a fantastic
'
amount of room on the southerly side of this particular property
and not too much room on the northerly side, therefore the set-
back. problem on the north . And also there is a front yard defi-
ciency problem as YOU can see. The hoose itself is about seven-
' teen feet from the line approximately, instead of what is re-
quired under the Zoning Ordinance , Now basically, obviously? the
practical difficulties are enormous of moving this hoose over and
back.. It meets all of the other requirements with respect to
.
parking. I ' m informed by the prior owner that it was a two-fam-
ily hoose, we have no personal knowledge of this ^ Mr . McEver
bought the property about ten years ago and he will speak in a
minute. He elected not to rent the upstairs and has never rented
. the opstairs. He is now moving, has the property for sale and
. has found that he can only sell it as a two-family hoose^ He
.
bought it as a two-family hoose, he tells me that there was a
kitchen on the second floor and a bath, when he bought . Now Mr .
. Hovanec wants to spend a considerable amount of money, op to '
' twenty thousand dollars fixing it op and renovating it but he '
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 3
does not want to renovate it, of course, until the area variance
matter is cleared tip. I want to emphasize that this is not a use
variance, we are only talking about practical difficolties, we
are not talking about the use of this particular premises, al-
though the way I read the law, I think there has to be - to deny
this there has to be some finding that granting this would be
detrimental to the public health and safety in this particular
neighborhood and Mr . McEver has just done a brief survey - if you
would comment Doug on what you found about the surrounding neigh-
borhoods . First with respect to setback and side yard, what have
you foond?
MR. McEVER : As far as side yards, on dual hooses and triple
hooses, there are none that meet the required ten feet, There
was one out of forty-one homes that I canvassed, that met the
twenty-five yard setback requirement for the front yard deficien-
cies. Out of forty-one homes, I found sixteen residential , the '
remainder are commercial properties. Triple or more family homes
- there are six. Dual families - there ae twelve. Single family '
rentals - there are seven. Dual family residential occupied ren-
tals, five. So, as you can see, as far as off-street parking in
the area, there is a total of sixty-nine parking spaces for all .
. .
of those hooses.
' MS^ FARRELL� Can you tell me about where you did that? .
.
' MR ^ McEVER� This was the five hundred block of South Aurora .
.
Street, both sides, the four hundred block of South Aurora .
Street, both sides, it was the surrounding whole block of 500
/
.
.
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE.' 4
. which is the four hundred block of Hillview, four hundred block
of Hodson and two hundred block of Columbia* Now, in addition to
that there was one home that was recently - last year - changed
over , It was on Hodson Street - 416 Hodson Street - was changed
over ^ It was basically a dual rental property - the owners are
the owners of the restaurant or grocery store, lived upstairs,
they rented the whole building. Since then, it has been changed
over to a two-family home and whether that was grandfathered or
whether there was a variance, I couldn ' t tell yoo^ I just no-
ticed it yesterday. But they did not have a front yard setback ,
they don ' t have either side - has enough yardage from where the
building extends out to. As a matter of fact, one side has two
^ feet, the other side one foot.
MR^ TAVELLI' Doug, when you bought this what was it advertised
as, what did you boy it as?
MR^ McEVER� It was advertised as a two-family and when I bought
it it was two-family. There were occupants upstairs - one
occupant upstairs as well as one occupant down - well the owner .
MR, HOVANEC� There still is an existing kitchen on the second
floor ^
MR. McEVER� I never took the kitchen or the bathroom out op-
stairs, I never changed the doors or the fundamental floor plan
'
upstairs, I never changed the floor plan downstairs, I just pot
carpeting in and made it look a lot nicer . The reason that I
' want to leave , is there are no children on that block and I have
four young children and I would love to Set oot in the coontry^
^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE.' 5
' Also into another educational system which I think will suit my
oldest two children a lot better than the Ithaca educational sys-
tem. I think it is too bad that I couldn ' t sell it to a single
family. Out of the fourteen people that have seen the hoose -
' before Mr . Hovanec had seen it in the two weeks that I had it op,
one person was looking as a residential only, the rest of the
people were either looking for rental property or they were com-
ing in as incoming students who would boy it, use the bottom
floor and rent the top portion~ So you can see it is almost im-
possible for me to sell this hoose other than a dual family^
MR . BOOTH** That is based on two weeks trying to sell it or on a
longer experience?
.
MR. McEVER� Well I tried to sell it once before, back in 1978
. and that was for a six month period in which time everybody that
came in was looking at it as a residential and rental property
combined. There was nobody looking for it - at that time - as a
strictly residential . Since then, we had not pot the "sold" sign
. op until about a week ago, and since then I ' ve had - there were
fourteen people in the first two weeks - and then we ' ve had four
. or five people after that and everybody - still - was just look-
ing for - boy - rent out the top floor to pay while they were
' i ll
going t o college.
MR^ TAVELLI� Steve , what do you plan for this property?
' MR, HOVANEC� Well I plan a three-bedroom apartment upstairs and
'
a two-bedroom downstairs, which essentially keeps the occupancy
the same because there are five people living there now. So it
'
' .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE'. 6
' is not really changing the number of people, Also, I have a par-
' king plan that is drawn op on it, if you would like to pass that
around. And that, I believe, would park nine cars and that is
' only using approximately half of the lot space there . Jost to
show that by buying this it could help alleviate other parking
^
problems in the area, I ' m making more space available for parking
for other tenants in the area (unintelligible) .
MS . FARRELL� Parking doesn ' t really seem to be the issue on the
' appeal , ^ ^
'
MR. TAVELLI� Righty it isn ' t an issuer but it was apparently
brought op at the ^ . ~
MR. HOVANEC� It was brought op at the last meeting.
^
' MS ^ FARRELL� Because you ' ve got two spaces and you need two
spaces *
MR, McEVER� Both Mr . Hovanec and myself are firm believers that
if you are going to have occupants there, it is better to have
. off the street parking, Mr ^ Hovanec has total plans for
utilizing that parking space and making sore that there is more
. than enough so that nobody will be parking on the street.
. MR ^ SCHNAB� Mr , Hovanec are you planning on occupying?
^
.
MR. HOVANEC� Only temporarily while I am doing construction
there^
. MR. TAVELLI+ But he does not intend to live there and we take
. the position that that ' s - you know - a legislative fonction^ If
you want to legislate that people should live in this particular
. district, it should be done, but it shouldn ' t be a condition of
'
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 7 '
an area variance that is very minor in nature* A side yard with
`
a very wide lot and a setback that no hoose in that area meets ^
-You shouldn ' t legislate who should live there and who shouldn' t ^
^
live there. If the legislature wants to say only one-family .
^
hooses on Aurora Street then maybe they should pass a law to that .
effect, but right now it is a two-family dwelling and a two-fam-
ily dwelling is allowed there and there are practical difficul-
ties in trying to do something about this side yard and setback. ,
MR , HOVANEC� I ' d like to say too that I ' ve been combing the area ,
lately and this is - within a two and one-half block area - this '
`
is the largest lot in that area^ '
,
MR. TAVELLI� He is not asking for new construction or to build '
. .
' another hoose on the lot, he is just asking for the two minor '
^
' setback problems. `
. ,
`
'
MS. FARRELL� I have a question, I can ' t imagine why he is
. .
thinking that he would need nine spaces. ^ ^ '
' MR, HOVANEC� I just did that to show that there was ample space ^ '
^
' MS^ FARRELL� Okay, And you are talking about two apartments and '
. .
^ there would be six unrelated people - or whatever - I mean, even '
. .
if you had six spaces^ ^ . '
. .
' MR, McEVER� Well I think we have to So back to what the last '
'
meeting was, we had an individual who is an official in this Com-
.
monity that spoke op in reference to the amount of parking -off |
street parking in the area - that there wasn ' t enough available
' and that - to create more possible street parking it would be
detrimental to the area - and we want to prove that we aren ' t
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE*. 8
going to be creating any more - as a matter of fact, we may be
. taking off the street, additional cars, which is basically what
this individual was talking about, I believe.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions from members of the Board?
,
MR. SCHNAB� It is currently grass there or what is there?
MR^ McEVER� It ' s driveway, there is a little bit of yard and
garden there^
MR, BOOTH� I ' m trying to clarify something in my own mind. If
you bought it as a two-family hoose and you haven ' t changed it
. and you feel (unintelligible) why are you here applying for a
variance?
MR^ McEVER� I was informed by a couple of building inspectors
that unless I was renting it out for the full time period, if I
let it lapse more than one year it wouldn ' t have grandfather
rights any more, so I went to , , ^
SECRETARY HOARD� That ' s not - I ' m not saying that isn ' t what you
were told, the reason is there is no record in our files that it
has ever been approved as a two-family.
MR. BOOTH� Oh, I see. As far as you knew, it was a one-family?
' SECRETARY HOARD*4 Right.
MR^ HOVANEC� It is obvious though, I mean, anyone ' s examination,
you could tell that it - you know - the kitchen cabinets, the
sink, the gas line going to the stove, the bathroom - everything
is there ^
' MR^ McEVER� A separate lock for the downstairs apartment sec-
' tion~ I removed the lock for the upstairs apartment because I
.
. '
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE'. 9
didn ' t want any of my children locking themselves in the bedroom
area that I use. But the upstairs - if you can follow the op-
stairs plan, on the north side of the building (unintelligible)
left hand side - all those rooms are connected on that one side.
Two rooms are connected - the bedroom, the living room and the
kitchen follow through and then the bathroom is in the next sec-
tion* Every room is connected with doors all the way through
there.
MR* BOOTH** And what is the significance of that?
MR . McEVER� I was just trying to show how that apartment was set
op and it is still set op that way.
MR . BOOTH� You haven ' t been using that primarily for very much?
MR. McEVER� We have been using it for children' s bedrooms. You
see I have four children - my wife and myself - there are
actually six people there.
MR. BOOTH� Do you have a copy of the real estate advertisement
when you bought it?
MR^ McEVER� No I don ' t have . I tried to get ahold of Mr , Joe
Cassinetti in the last few days to get a verification from him
that that was what was represented but Mr , Cassinetti , I believe,
is out of town - he has been out of town since Thursday. I did-
n ' t realize I was going to need it until the last minote^ I had
an appointment with Mr ^ Tavelli on Friday afternoon and I have
been trying to get ahold of him ever since and I found out that
he was out of town and he still is out of town, there is no way I
could have gotten him op here to verify it.
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 10
SECRETARY HOARD� Mr , Booth, there was an affidavit submitted by
the previous owner � "To Whom It May Concern� I resided at and
owned the property at 505 South Aurora Street from 1958 to 1976 ^
At that time I sold my home in 1976 there were two complete
apartments . Sincerely /s/ Imogene S . Hyde, 11 Deer Ron Road,
Newfield, New York 14867 ^ " This was brought in by Mr ~ Tavelli
tonight.
MR. BOOTH� I see.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions from members of the Board?
Thank you gentlemen. Is there anyone else who would like to
speak in favor of granting this variance? If you would come
forward please, have a seat in front of the microphone and
identify yourself .
MS. NOCUEIRA� Now I live next door in back of them^ I have a
three family house, I rent to five students, I have the same
width lot that he has and I have no trouble with the parking '
whatsoever ^ Each one of my students have a car , that ' s five plus
mine that is six cars . So I believe that McEver should have that '
two-family hoose - I ' ve been there forty-four years and I ' ve '
`
always known that hoose to be a two-family hoose and they never '
have any problems. That ' s all ^ '
`
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Thank you. Jost a moment. First I would ask '
your name for the record? '
'
MS. NOGUEIRA� Marie Nogoeira, my husband is Anthony Nogoeira, ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN44 Would you be so kind as to spell it for os? '
^
MS. NOCUEIRA� N O G U E I R A. ^
"
^
^
,
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE.' 11
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Questions?
MR, BOOTH� What is your address?
MS. NOGUEIRA� 509 South Aurora Street in Ithaca here .
MR. BOQTH� So you live just sooth^ ^ ^
MS. NOCUEIRA� Next to McEver ^ ^ ^
MR * BOOTH� The next hoose south or the next hoose north?
MS. NOCUEIRA� 509, he is 507^ South.
MR. BOOTH� As far as you know, the hoose has always been
two-family? For forty-four years?
MS^ NOCUEIRA� Yes^ But when I first moved there, they waited
until their children went to college - then they started renting
|
the top floor out, what was their name?
MR* McEVER� Mrs. Hyde ' s name was Mrs. Costello at that time. .
MS ^ NOCUEIRA� Costello, yes. And then after their children went
to college they had rented it out - two-family. '
MR , BOOTH� Do you know approximately when that was - when that '
'
started? When they started renting the top floor? '
MS. NOCUEIRA� More than ten years, I know that, At least fifteen '
years probably^ '
MR^ BOOTH� Is that the same^ , , . , '
MS^ NOCUEIRA� Twenty years ago* * , .
SECRETARY HOARD� No this is Imogene S. Hyde and she said ^ ^ ~ ^
MR, BOOTH'* I mean Mrs. Costello^ , ^ .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions from members of the Board?
Thank you very much ^
MS, NOCUEIRA� You are welcome. `
'
_
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE*. 12
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'4 Is there anyone else who would like to speak in
favor of granting this variance? (no one) Is there anyone who
would like to speak in opposition to granting this variance?
MS. SAGGESE*# My name is Lorraine Sa8Sese^ I live at 201 Colom-
bia Street, I ' ve lived in Ithaca since 1950 and I ' ve lived in
this hoose since 1964^ First, to my knowledge that was a one-
family hoose when we moved in. We knew the Costello family and
. they were Mr ^ 8 Mrs. Costello and three children, It wasn ' t on-
til later until there were family problems and Mr . Costello and
Mrs, Costello were divorced and Mrs. Costello turned to taking
. some student teachers from Cortland - a single person to live
upstairs, To my knowledge that is the extent of the upstairs
rental . I do not think it was done through the proper channels,
' the conversion, that I know of but we heard Mr . Costello working
on it, on the upstairs . Well my concern is one, I hate to see it
go as a single-family hoose because there just aren ' t single fam-
ily hooses anymore, it is a beautiful family dwelling and there
are just no children in the neighborhood - there are just more
and more students moving in and when we moved there, back in
1964, there were lots of families. Dor children went to South
Hill and we watched everybody grow op, but now the children have
disappeared from the nei8hborhood4 It is just getting lopsided,
it is just getting too many students there and it seems like we
have to think about a better balance. On the east side of the
five hundred block, now we are right on the corner so the back of
'
our hoose is this end - basically the north end of Mr * McEver ' s
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 13
hoose, there is less than four feet between our hooses - we are
extremely, extremely close, There is only that one single family
on the east side in the five hundred block of South Aurora
Street, There is only one single family on the west side of the
five hundred block - I think these are things that we have to
think about, I mean, it is just getting so dense. Students
across the street are five or six - have been horrendous for five
or six years now. The traffic is bad, I ' d hate to see nine cars
pulling out of the lot next door ^ It is like an extension of
Ithaca College coming down - extension of the bars coming op . It
is just so noisy and the students just live in a different world,
they don ' t realize that people have to sleep to go to work the
next morning - they just don ' t live in that kind of world .
MR, SACCESE'* I too am concerned^ I ' ve been in Ithaca for thirty
some years and I ' ve been in the field of education and I ' ve seen
families who have been turned away from housing, with children,
because they can ' t afford hooses. They are leaving the Community
to find places outside* And we have a South Hill School that is
about two blocks from this hoose and I think we ought to be en-
couraging children to live there - it is a beautiful yard -with a '
little creativity, with a fence, you could have a very safe en- '
vironment and they could walk to school , And I really am con- .
cerned about the garbage - all you have to do is walk op Aurora .
Street on a Saturday night or a Sunday morning and you will see '
nothing but trash and we have nothing but landlords who don ' t
live there and we ' ve got students all over the place and no one
^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE*. 14
cares and I am very concerned about the South Hill . The article
in the paper represents the feelings of a lot of people on South
Hill - I did not petition people to come here tonight because I
didn ' t think it was proper - I felt that if they wanted to show
op, they could. I am concerned about fire . With our hoose being
so close to this hoose - three feet - three and one-half feet -
if there was ever a fire we wouldn ' t stand a chance and all you
have to do is observe the behavior on that street and you would
know what my concerns are^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ For the record would you identify yourself?
MR~ SACCESE*+ I ' m sorry ^ I ' m Pat Sa88ese, I live at 201 Colombia
Street, it is just three feet from this other hoose^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN4+ All right, Thank you* Are there questions
from members of the Board?
MR, SCHHAB'+ Is your hoose on the lot line?
MR. SAGCESE'f My hoose is on the lot line, yes^
MR, BOOTH'# Do you have parking, off-street?
MR, SACCESE++ I have a garage for my car , yes, And I rent
another parking space across the street^
MS. SACCESE++ Because we have two cars.
MR^ SACCESE*+ Because we have two cars and I don ' t keep it on the
street^ I rent a place .
MR* BOOTH'+ Across which street?
MR. SACCESE'+ On Colombia Street.
MR ~ BOOTH'* And you ' ve owned your hoose how long?
MR* SACCESE++ I ' ve been there since 1964^ And we ' ve pot a lot of '
'
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 15
money into the upkeep of it. We ' ve got a lot of money invested
into it.
MR, BOOTH� What is your recollection of when this second floor
of this hoose began to be rented,
MR. SACCESE| As my wife said, when there were family problems,
they had student teachers from Cortland^ ^ ^
MR, BOOTH� I understand that, do you have an approximate date?
MR. SACCESE� About ' 73 maybe?
MS . SACCESE� I really don ' t remember the date because . ^ ^
MR ^ BOOTH** On your street, are there other single-family hooses?
MR. SACCESE� Jost us.
MR. BOOTH** Jost yoo ^
MS. SACCESE� No , there is the Smiths. .
`
MR^ SACCESE� Oh, on Colombia Street?
MR. BOOTH' Yes, Colombia Street, yes. '
MR , SACGESE� Yes there are. '
MS~ SACCESE� The Smiths, I don ' t know about the Fontanas on the '
other side^ '
MR. BOOTH** Do you know how many? '
`
MR ^ SACCESE� Two or three. ^
`
MS. SACCESE� Two that I know of , I don ' t know about further down '
the block. /
MR, SACCESE� I ' m concerned about Aurora Street, very concerned .
about it. ,
`
MR* BOOTH� On the five hundred block of Aurora Street, do you ,
know of any other single family hoose? .
^
/
^
-- ' — — -- -'
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 16
MS . SACCESE� Jost one, McEver ' s hoose and across the street,
Mrs . Sommers has a hoose and that is all that is left, students
are just taking the whole place over . We have been there so long
and we are seeing this and we agree completely with the people
down farther on South Hill and the people op above os on South
Hill - I don' t think it is right - I don ' t think it is fair - I
don ' t think it is fair to the people who have lived here for a
long time and raised families and want to see other families
there too. I mean, what kind of a neighborhood do you have when
it is getting so lopsided? I think we have a commitment to peo-
ple of the City. We ' ve both been active in the Civic Association
and we tried to get it started, my husband tried to get it
started and it didn ' t go throo8h, maybe he will try it again,
because I think we need a strong Civic Association,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Again, identify yourself please ,
MS, FELDMAN� My name is Carolyn Feldman and I live - I own the
hoose at 205 Colombia Street and my back yard is next to the back
yard of the McEver ' s. I share a lot of the same concerns that
the SaSgese ' s do and I have sort of a slightly different orienta-
tion because I rent out half of my hoose and so I am not totally '
against having two families, but I ' d like to speak in favor of '
owner-occupancy. I think it makes a tremendous amount of differ- '
ence , I know the hoose on the other side of me is just students
by themselves and it ' s wild^ I mean, I often have to close my
windows because I can ' t think - the music comes in^ And you can '
hear - all of the non-owner-occupied rental units, I mean they '
--
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 17
are very loud and obnoxious and I think it really ruins the
neighborhoods, I have the same concerns about the loudness and the
lack of families . On my street there still are families and I ' m
worried that they will feel driven away by further students . I
think we have enough students. So I ' m not against them having a
two-family hoose but I ' d like to speak in favor of it being at
least owner-occupied so that there is some sort of control .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Questions from members of the Board?
MR^ BOOTH*+ Did you say how long you ' ve owned your property?
MS . FELDMAN� I also bought my hoose in 1976,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Thank yoo^ Is there anyone else who would like
to speak in opposition?
MS, CUMMINCS� I ' m Susan Cummings, 214 Fayette Street and the
Alderwoman for the Second Nard^
MR, TAVELLI� I would like to object^ If she isn ' t within the
two hundred feet, I don ' t think she should be addressing the
Board. '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� We ' ve - in the past - allowed representatives
that represent that Ward - to speak, just to answer Mr . Tavelli ' s
objection, Continue please,
MS^ CUMMINGS� Thank you. I have been asked to speak, by my Con- '
^
stitoents. First of all I would like to do a disclaimer and say,
^
while I have every confidence in the Hovanec ' s reputation for ^
quality construction and while we do indeed need quality housing
in the City for students and for all sorts of ventures, I feel .
that this is an inappropriate hoose for that conversion and I
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE4, 18
would like to list the reasons why. There are basically three
areas I ' ll address, that of its being a single family hoose, I
will address the neighborhood trends, and thirdly and most impor-
tantly I think the point that Mr . Tavelli made, are the public
health and safety issues . I ' ll start first with the single fami-
ly home issue . I was talking with the Building Inspector Mr .
Luce, who tells me that he has been familiar with the hoose since
he grew op as a kid on South Hill as well as in his official ca-
pacity with the City , he has been aware of it as a single family
home - the conversions that were done, obviously it appears to be
in the 1970 ' s, to be illegal conversions and I would like to
point out to the Board that that is a problem which plagues os
throughout the City, as you well know, and I certainly hope that
we can come op with every means possible not to institutionalize
- those conversions which represent a broader problem. So to
benefit my knowledge and Mr . Loce ' s, this is a single family home ^
with - it ' s (unintelligible) an accessory owner-occupied rental
situation for a brief period of time * Secondly, neighborhood
trends, you have heard residents speak about their concern for
the stability of their neighborhood, I think you should know that `
we in the Planning Department have been working with residents on '
lower South Hill , surveying properties on the Hodson, Prospect,
^
Pleasant - let ' s see, did I leave anything out - Aurora area, and
what we are finding is two tremendous pressures at work - there
is a tremendous pressure, of courser for conversion to student
housing, and running equally one hundred percent is the movement
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 19
on the part of your young families or young, singles who try to
boy into the area and we have been seeing a number of these homes
which have been purchased and have gone - oh , in one case, gone
from being a four unit to being a two-unit - we believe that this
is a trend which could well , indeed, continuer so when someone
says I tried to sell my hoose and I couldn ' t sell it , I would
say, at what price? And again, I think the neighborhood can be a
'
strong neighborhood, I think the City needs to assist it. So
that is a bit of thumbnail sketch of the neighborhood . As to the
'
public health and safety issues, you ' ve had itpointedout as to
' how close it is to the Sa88ese property, I think there is a real
'
danger in creating third floor occupancy . My understanding from
' the Planning Board meeting, was that the attic, current attic of
the hoose would be converted into the living room space, the bed-
' rooms for the second floor apartment are on the second floor ,
living room was going to be changed to the third floor , which
'
would pot the living space awfully close to a hoose next to it on
the north side* I think that is a fire hazard, and in a particu-
lar sense, this is not the place, this is not like the prior ap-
peal with a hoose easily accessible, this is a place where the
' road is very steep, very hard to get to and to get in between
' hooses ^ , , ^
MR, NEAVER� May I ask a question? We have an application here/
were you not aware of the details of that?
MS^ CUMMINCS� I do not serve on the Planning Board, I have not .
seen the application, I have heard the Planning Board testimony `
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 20
referring to the third floor living space which was, ^ ^ ^
MR. NEAVER� But there is no reference to the third floor in the
application.
MS^ CUMMINGS� No, there wasn ' t at the Planning Board either ,
but.
MR^ NEAVER� Because they discussed it, doesn ' t mean that it has
.
anything to do with this case.
MS. CUMMINCS� I ' m sorry but I believe their Counsel indicated
. that the third floor was going to be the living room ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Being more specific Charlie, I believe on page
. 4 - at the bottom of page 4 there are some comments with respect
. to third floor , insolation, ceiling and walls, things of that
.
sort.
.
MS* CUMMINCS� The bedrooms and bathroom is on the second floor ,
' is my understanding of it^
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Jost to clarify that^
^
' MR^ NEAVER� But I see that, but I ' m looking at our case ^ I just
' want to make sore that I know what the case is,
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN44 I think that we can discuss that further .
MR^ WEAVER** All right. Pardon me.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN4+ Please continue.
MS^ CUMMINGS� One final point as far as (unintelligible) again I
think the plan calls for a third floor conversion to living space
with such a limited side yard, I think it is dangerous particu-
larly on that hill ^ And finally, I am concerned about creating a '
lot of parking - traffic in and out of their yard on to Aurora `
`
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*4 21
Street hill . It is a shame to take what is a rather nice green
space that has potential , as Mr . Sag8ese pointed out, and torn it
into parking. I suppose that many of you are, perhaps aware that
we have, indeed, already - this past week -had an accident with
Ithaca College student , new to the area, pulling out of the seven
hundred block of South Aurora Street where there has been a lot
of on-yard parking, and creating an accident. It is an accident
that the next door neighbor (unintelligible) would happen, he had
been trying to get cars ticketed and moved off from the yard. It
is a dangerous hill to create substantial parking, egress onto.
So because of the location of the hoose on the hill , I think the
health and safety hazard is greater than it would be in a hoose
on the flats. I think if the neighborhood trends are strong to
support single-family or owner-occupancy in the area and, my un-
derstanding is that it has functioned legally, which is what we
would have to be concerned about as a single-family hoose, I
would suggest if it was to be anything other than a single-family
the way it is built, it should be an Accessory Apartment Ordi- �
nance^ '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Questions from members of the Board?
MR. BOOTH** I hear your comments about health and safety. I am
curious if the entire secion of Aurora Street is zoned for what
these people are proposing?
^
MS. CUMMINCS'4 It is zoned for R-2 and I think one of the inter-
^
estin3 things we ' ve been seeing in the past couple of years is a
change in the nature of R-2 use. Perhaps a few years agog five
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*. 22
years ago, the conventional wisdom was absentee owners didn ' t in-
vest in duplexes because the payback was really not substantial
enoo8h. We ' ve been seeing, in the Planning Department, we ' ve
been seeing a substantial number of conversions, R-2 hooses, for
use by unrelated individoal , primarily students, which brings a
much higher rate of return. So we have been feeling that the R-2
zone may well not be defining the type of use it was originally
intended to^ We are seeing new construction, subdivision
requests going in on South Hill for two doplexes. Someone is
going to do new construction to hoose only six people per build-
ing, this is going to be student housing for Ithaca College,
There is a shift in the market. So I think that the R-2 descrip-
tion was meant to describe one and two family units, they are
soddenly becoming stodent duplexes. It is a different type of
critter ^
MR^ BOOTH+* But that is not what the Zoning Ordinance says.
MS. CUMMINCS! Correct ^
MR. BOOTH4+ Are you proposing to change it?
MS. CUMMINCS*+ I believe there are, yes, indeed, there are dis-
cussions under way for a rewriting of our residential zoning des-
criptions^
MR. BOOTH+* In this area?
MS^ CUMMINCS** City-wide ,
MR. WEAVER'* Is there some significance to the fact that the '
Planners are studying the lower part of South Hill and not this
section?
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 23
MS. CUMMINCS� No, as a matter of fact - well that is the area
which is zoned R-3 and neighbors over a period of a year have
requested a zoning change - it came from two different blocks -in
the lower South Hill area - the R-3 line runs down the middle of
Pleasant Street and that is why we have - just in this past month
- done an inventory of those houses, There has been a survey
done of the condition of the housing stock on lower South Hill
starting with Hillview Place down - which is funded in large part
by Neighborhood Housing, which is a pretty comprehensive survey
that does take a large area of lower South Hill . But the signi-
ficance was the R-3 zone, not because of a difference in the con-
dition^ Oh, I wanted to point - there are a few more single-
family homes, Mrs. Sa83ese has mentioned two, I can think of a
couple more, Elsie Haines on the two hundred block, and Doke on
the four hundred block, they are there - quietly - still there,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions from members of the Board?
(none) Thank you, Is there anyone else who would like to speak
in opposition to granting this variance? That being the case, it
IS oors~
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 24
DISCUSSION BY THE BOARD - APPEAL NO. 1647
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! I will merely do my Chairmanly duties by
reminding the Board that we are dealing with an area variance not
a use variance.
MR. NEAVER� I ' d like to 8o back to the application.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I ' ve never left it Charlie .
MR* NEAVER� I want to know what the plans are for the third
floor ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ The only hint that I have been able to
discover , Charlie, is^ ^ ^ ^
MR, NEAVER� (unintelligible) talk about type X sheetrock,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s righty there is nothing insofar as the
plans per se, there is nothing, ^ .
MR, BOOTH** Why don ' t we bring the applicant back and ask him.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Is that your pleasure?
MR. NEAVER� Well I would like to know what the application is*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I think that would be a good idea. If the
applicant would come forward please ^ As you ' ve heard, there is a
' bit of a question as to exactly what is going on on the third
story.
^
MR. HOVANEC� Okay, well I ' ve gone to the Building Department,
' there are no plans, only asking if I could use the third floor ^
It is not for a third floor apartment, it is in conjunction with
the second floor apartment^ These plans are all tentative, they
' are not solid plans, they are just something that I drew op of
what I would like to do and they said, in fact it was Lee Nae8ely
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 25
that I spoke to, said that if I did tear out the stairway going
op to the third floor , that if I widened it to thirty-six inches,
if I supplied the four percent lighting that I needed in the
third floor , eight percent lighting - thirty percent window open-
ing - that I could use that as a living room for the second floor
apartment. I didn ' t say I was going to do it, I asked if I
coold^
MR^ BOOTH** Well we are asking you. What are you proposing?
MR . HOVANEC� I would like to use it, if it ' s legal , I mean, �
that is what this whole thing is about, what we can do and what
we can ' t do. It would give more space to the third floor - more .
living space . With or without it, there is ample room to - by .
closing off the back stairway and making the front - or excuse
me, the other way aroond, by closing the front stair and making '
the back stairway the main entry, there is ample space for three
bedrooms. It would just Sive more living space and make a larger '
apartment. I ' m not trying to get any - this is not going to have '
any benefit for me either positive or negative. '
MS. FARRELL� Would you pot a living room on the second floor
are there plans for a living room on the second floor? '
MR. HOVANEC� These are the only plans that I have, they show '
existing and what is there - if I knew what my tenants plans '
are, ^
' MR . SCHNAB++ So tentatively you are planning a living room on the '
' third floor of the building as it, . * '
MR. HOVANEC� Yes at this point it is a little difficult to Set '
�
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE** 26
^ into anything very costly, you know, until I find out what I can
do. If you don ' t find in favor here, why I can ' t 8o any further ,
.
you know, bot ^ ^ ,
MR , WEAVER** May I ask a question? You understand the
distinction between conforming with the building code and
'
conforming with the Zoning Ordinance?
MR . HOVANEC� Yes, ri8ht^
'
MR, WEAVER� You were talking to a building code person^
MR, HOVANEC� Yes, righty and he was referring to the book, I
suppose, on two-family in R-2 areas, , .
' MR^ WEAVER� On the building code?
MR. TAVELLI� Mr , Hovanec understands that he has got to comply
`
^ with all kinds of building ordinances, if he receives approval to
' have a two-family. , ^
MR. HOVANEC� You know, I could rent it out like it is and pack
' people in now, because as I say, the kitchen is there, the bath-
room is there, I could pot twenty-five dollars into the place and
leave it like it is and rent it, if I wanted to just have an eye-
' sore and have an over-crowded apartment, but I think the place
^ has the potential to have two nice sized apartments in it.
' MR^ TAVELLI� Are you intending to rent to students or you have
no intent one way or the other?
'
MR. HOVANEC� I don ' t really care, you know, I think anybody
. knows, its economics - you borrow money on a place - and what
.
Your
. payment is and what you have to make - and you know, my rent
^ .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE* 27
would be set and whoever wants to rent it, I have no - I could
care if I rent to students right now, or family,
MR, BOOTH� Your neighbors obviously care.
MR. HOVANEC� Well I sent out twenty-one notices and only these
two people have come to complain. And also they state that it is
three and one-half feet - the boundary - which I think is
important - is from their living area - which is three and
one-half feet from their garage, their hoose is - I estimate is
approximately twenty-eight feet - their living structure - from,
and I think that is very important, I think they misstated the
situation there.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions? Thank you Sents^
MR. SACCESE� Are we allowed to speak again?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� No, I ' m sorry.
MS, SACCESE� But there is something that was not clear ,
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I understand, but that is for os to understand
at this point, If we find that we need your we ' ll call you. '
Thank yoo^ And we may need your but that is for os to decide^ '
/
' Thank yoo^ Discussion? '
' MR, BOOTH� If there was something that was misstated, I ' d like '
' to hear what that is - I know it is late, but this is obviously a '
'
contentious case. I ' d rather hear
. .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN' That ' s your preference? '
MR. BOOTH** That is my preference, it may not be the Board ' s
preference but it is my preference*
/
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� If you would come forward^
�
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 28
MS. SAGCESE� I don ' t understand what Mr . Hovance meant that it
was only a garage - we have a back room downstairs and we have
two bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs and they are still the same
distance apart.
MR. HOVANCE� You have a garage - it comes off from your hoose,
your actually dwelling is, in my estimation* . .
MR. SCHNAB� Let me just clarify this. All I have here are the
plans of this hoose, on your lot line, the garage is here ^ ,
MS, SAGCESE� The garage is on the ground floor .
MR^ SCHNAB� And directly above the garage is the living area?
MS, SACGESE� Above the garage is ^ ^ oh, excuse me^
MR ^ SCHWAB'* Or is it setback?
MS, SACCESE� Yes, it is , I ' m sorry* It is set back^
MR . SCHNAB� Okay, so your bedrooms and whatnot are a little
further ?
MS^ SACCESE� Yes, definitely they are, I forgot about the roof^
We are not above the garage, it is just - (unintelligible) about
the closeness of the hoose that I just didn ' t think. Excuse me,
. I owe you an apology (to Mr . Hovance) ^ But we do have a back
' room, it is not just the garage that is close, we do have a back
room,
MR, SCHNAB� Oh, there is a back room next to the garage?
' MS ^ SACCESE� Next to the garage? yes,
'
MR. SCHNAB� On the ground floor?
MR . BOOTH*, On the same level?
MS^ SACGESE� Yes*
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 29
MR* SCHNAB� And that is three and one-half feet, or whatever ,
from the hoose, or close, very close?
MS^ SACGESE� Yes, it might be - it dips - three feet.
MR . SCHHAB� Maybe it is six feet?
MS. SACCESE� No it is not that far , it is just where the water
drips down.
MR. SCHAAB� So you do have one room that is quite close?
MS^ SACCESE� Yes, very close~ .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions from members of the Board? .
I ' ll be glad to entertain a motion. '
MR^ WEAVER'* Question* Granting this variance, would it apply to '
a proposed possible extension into the third floor or does this '
non conforming building bit not require another building permit '
or a variance in order to develop the third floor for living '
purposes* `
SECRETARY HOARD� As this was presented to me, it represented
`
.
using the third floor . I don ' t know if that answered your '
^
^
question or not, '
. MR, SCHNAB� That is my understanding, if he is proposing to - as /
, far as the zoning code goes, because he wants to use the third '
'
floor .
MS, JOHNSON� Can we require that this be limited to
.
owner-occupancy? Or is that not, , ^ ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� The question was whether , in fact, we could
require that the building be owner-occupied - that the owner
maintain ownership - and I don ' t believe we could very easily .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 30
MR. BOOTH** Well we did earlier this evening*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s troe^ But a different sort,
MR* SCHNAB� But the main problem that I see is that it is
perfectly authorized under the Code there,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s right.
MR ^ SCHHAB� Two separate dwellings*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s right.
MR^ SCHNAB� Whereas in the previous case, which was a
grandfathered user that was not^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� In the prior case, there was no basis for that.
SECRETARY HOARD� What the Ordinance says is that in granting any
variance the Board of Appeals may prescribe any condition that it
deems to be necessary or desireable so that the spirit of this
Chapter shall be observed, public safety and welfare secured and .
'
substantial justice done . .
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+f Would you like to defend that if it were the
case? .
MR^ SCHNAB� Yes we could. .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Yes we could bot^ , ~
' MR^ SCHWAB** It seems to me the only way to deny this ordinance
is on some sort of finding that the safety in using that attic,
' which there have been some allusions about that I am not in a
position to^ . ,
SECRETARY HOARD� I think that is governed by the Building Code,
not the Zoning Ordinance,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I think you have to come back to that question,
. BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE4+ 31
^
, practical conditions - or practical difficulties and special �
. conditions, I mean, have they met that test?
.
MR. WEAVER** Well we have a little (onintel ^ ) here, I ' m depending
. on the Building Code to provide the safety, in my statements for-
. ther . We have - at least some of the neighbors who are concern-
ed, plus alarmed over expanding the occupancy of the structure.
^ They think that that would be detrimental to the neighborhood.
'
' If the building stays, essentially, the way it is, the same nom-
' ber of bedrooms, bathrooms, etc . , I see merely the owner or the
proposed owner , exercising the right to do what ' s legal to do in
' that neighborhood, under the Zoning Ordinance, However , if they
propose to expand into an attic, which has no history of being
occupied, I see expansion of the capacity of this apartment which
is quite a separate issue as far as I am concerned. If that were
the only thing ( unintelligible) it on, it were a duplex and it
' was a request to increase that we would not be concerned about
^
' possibly increasing parking requirements and possibly increasing
'
occupancy (onintelli8ible) ^ So, here is a second floor apartment
' with three bedrooms, a study and a living room plus a kitchen.
The need for expanding the third floor isn ' t readily apparent and
' I find it quite a different issue and I don ' t - I hope that the
whole thing doesn ' t fall on the basis of that but I would be
quite a bit more sympathetic to opposition of expansion of the
living area which is really an imposition to the capacity versos
` reconversion, if you will , back to a duplex, which by some rather
substantial testimony (unintelligible) has been a fact as it ap-
`
,
' BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*4 32
plies to this house. So whether it is occupied as a single with
a couple of doors open or you lock them off and go back to the
`
duplex , I ' m fairly much at ease with that but I ' m not at ease
with expanding the capacity of one of them, even though it is
inside the frame ^
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# Further comments?
.
MR . SCHNAB*+ And it complies with the code, as far as^ ^ ^
. MR^ NEAVER*+ It may comply with the Building Code bot, ^ ,
. MR ^ SCHWAB'* No, not the Building Code, the Zoning Code. * * no
° more than three unrelated in each apartment.
. MR ^ WEAVER** If you are assuming student occopantsr no more than
. three and goodness knows what they would then need the third
. floor for ^ Or , given a family, I can see where the parents might
. need that for an escape room, But I can ' t see that - in the pre-
sent application, as we see it, a proposed buyer , trying to boy
^ this hoose that was single or duplex, never mind which, in a
neighborhood where the zoning allows a duplex, and nothing else
' changing, I find it hard to shoot down, not to allow it , The
only reason they are here is that side yard that can ' t be fixed
and a front yard that shouldn ' t be fixed, because it would be
incompatible with the rest of the housing in the nei8hborhood4
This is the only deficiency that I can see. An expansion of the
capacity of the place would be quite a different matter ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'4 Further comment? In my own mind, for what it
' is worth, I will merely share with you a few of my ideas^ I am
'
not exactly sore about the special conditions of this particular
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE� 33
instance - couldn ' t they make compliance with the regulations
impossible? If - it seems to me there are a couple of things
that were indicative of this. One could question how long it ' s
necessary to have something on the market before one comes op
with schemes, of whatever kind, with whatever owner ^ And I
guess, secondly, the nature of the application itself seemed to
be so sketchy that I was left a little bit uncomfortable with it,
MR ^ BOOTH� What are you suggesting?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Nell , it seems to me that if Charlie ' s progno-
sis is correct, and if we hadn ' t have gotten into the third
floor , we would have had tougher qoestionsr a far tougher ques-
tion of balance between one side and the other ^ I tend to agree
with the fact that there is likely to be a exacerbation of what-
' ever difficulties might exist, assuming there are some, op there,
. if, in fact, you do open op the attic and begin to start con-
`
, stroction of the interior , To come back to the earlier discos-
^ sion we had about what is a use variance, the notion of what hap-
'
. pens to the inside as opposed to what is going on in the struc-
ture, I suppose buttresses my thoughts in that direction^
. MR ^ SCHNAB� But this isn ' t a use variance.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I understand and I ' m not trying to confuse the
matter whatsoever , but what you see is that sort of exacerbation
the same way - the flip side of the same coin.
MR ^ HEAVER� Dick ' s original question about the amount of time
that the building was listed and how difficult it was to sell
would be appropriated, if they were trying to get a use variance ^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE� 34
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Absolutely.
MR^ HEAVER� They don ' t have to prove that at all .
,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� No, I ' m not suggesting that would.
MR. NEAVER� It seems to me that is a sharp left torn and it has
nothing to do with this case^ Whether this is the first Soy that
' said I' ve got the money, when can we move in? It ' s fine with me,
I don ' t care how many people^ , ^
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Well I ' m still groping though, Charlie, for the
practical difficulties and special conditions and what I want you
to do, I guess , is make me an argument on the other side of the
'
question which would show that ^
'
MR. WEAVER** That is very easy. The practical difficulties in
this case are simply that the building has a long established
' deficiency, that it is too close to the left lot line,
looking at it from the front, that complying would require moving
' the building (unintelligible) some substantial distance and the
same thing is true of the deficient front yard - both of those
are practical difficulties . It seems to me that it would be fi-
nancially inappropriate - impossible, essentially, to move that
building, which is the only solution to the side yard setback and
the front yard setback^ If that ' s not a practical difficolty, I
' haven ' t been exposed to one lately,
MR, SCHWAB'* And even further , no deficiencies being exacerbated^
' MR. NEAVER� Nothing at all .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� And the spirit of the Ordinance doesn ' t change
the character of the district, so yoo^ ^ ^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE� 35
�
MR. WEAVER'* The district is zoned for two family and, ^ ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� No, he didn ' t make a motion but I ' m pushing the
.
MR, NEAVER� I want it to be clear that when we do make a motion
. it will be ready to fly ^
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I just want to bring op both sides of the
argument in a sense because we should be clear what exactly we
are addressing, I guess that is why I ' m pushing. * .
MS. FARRELL� This seems to me demonstrated for an area deficien-
cy problem it would mean a lot, especially if he sold the build-
ing. I find it unfortunate that there seems to be such, you
know, concern in the neighborhood about conversion to student
housing and things like that . I don ' t think that ' s what our job
is and this seems like it ' s the practical difficulty of the front
'.
yard and side yard problem.
MR. NEAVER� Another thing that ' s been addressed here, pardon me
' Tracy, a good number of people, appropriately saying that it is
^
pretty uncomfortable to live near students, especially when they
' are unsupervised off campus. I agree, from experience, but if we
'
° are going to have as the law of the land a City Ordinance that
says students shall not live here unless they have a hoose
' mother , let the Common Council pass the Ordinance or if there is
another solution, that has nothing to do with zoning, some kind
'
of Ordinance that really can be enforced that has to do with
trash and with noise. And neither of these is in the Zoning Or-
dinance^ I just - I am sympathetic with people who feel - the
wave moving down the hill or whatever way it moves - it moves
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 36
next door to you and it is very onpleasant^ However , I think
that is a legislative problem and I ' d be glad to have them ad-
dress it. Certainly I can ' t see that they would have the nerve
to say that they are opposed to students living in a particular
section of the City . That might be a little bit more uncomfort-
able, but they are willing for os to try to do that through the
devious method of being tough on variances if it is in a sensi-
tive area. We don ' t hear any complaints from an Alderperson, for
example, for duplexes in the INHS territories, in fact, it is a
nice thing and the possibility that those might be students is
something that we are not required to consider . I ' m just trying
to talk about the Zoning Ordinance and the way I look at it, The
fact that I ' m not insensitive to people who find them poor neigh-
bors, them being students.
' BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 37
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1647 505 SOUTH AURORA STREET .
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Stephen
Hovanec for a variance to permit the conversion of the single
' family dwelling at 505 South Aurora Street to a two-family
dwelling. The decision of the Board was as follows*.
MR , WEAVER** I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1647 with the .
' condition that the structure be limited to those
portions of the building that have traditionally '
'
' been used; specifically the third floor shall not '
' be included. '
'
MS , FARRELL� I second the motion. !
' PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT� '
' 1 ) The side yard setback, the front yard setback as currently |
. deficient will not be exacerbated by conversion of this '
. .
single family dwelling to a duplex.
. 2) That the granting of this variance will be for a use that is
approved in the neighborhood and will be compatible with the
i
current use. i
.
MR. BOOTH� I ' d like to speak. �
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I thought you might.
MR, BOOTH� I ' ve been wrestling with this kind of problem all
summer in another context, I think Charlie correctly addressed
the nature of the problem and to pot it succinctly in the Ordi-
nance encourages this kind of conversion~ It is a policy ques-
tion clearly of great import to the people who live in these
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 38
neighborhoods as to what the answer to that policy question
should be but I think the Ordinance clearly encourages this kind
of conversion. I ' m going to vote against the motion, I think one
could make a case that increasing traffic from this property onto
Aurora Street — there has been some testimony about that and
that ' s indicative consideration - I would agree if someone were
to characterize that as a weak read, I would agree that it is a
weak read but I am going to vote against the motion.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Stewart, Helen, any thoughts?
MR, SCHWAB'* No public thoughts * No added thoughts,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Okay, then if we could have a vote?
VOTE 3 YES; 3 NO VARIANCE DENIED FOR LACK OF 4 AFFIRMATIVE
VOTES. ( 1647A)
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� So we need to vote one more time . We ' ve had a
positive motion, let ' s pot forward a negative motion?
MR* BOOTH� I move that the Board deny the area variance
requested in appeal number 1647 ^
MS. JOHNSON** I second the motion.
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT *
1 ) There is adequate testimony in the record that the proposal
is not consistent with the character of its immediately
neighboring property to the north.
2) There is some evidence in the record that allowing this hoose
to become a two-apartment unit will increase egress and
ingress problems with respect to Aurora Street .
3) The applicant proposes to expand the living space in this
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE.' 39
house beyond that which has been historically utilized.
VOTE*# 3 YES; 3 NO VARIANCE DENIED FOR LACI; OF 4 AFFIRMATIVE
VOTES ( 1647E)
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 40
FURTHER DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO, 1647 AFTER THE VOTE�
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Mr * and Mrs. Sa8Sese would like to make a
statement. Jost very quickly please because we do have to move
'
along.
MR, SAGCESE� I was concerned about what Mr ^ Weaver implied, that
' I didn ' t like living near students and that I shouldn ' t be
'
telling them where to live, That is not true* I enjoy students
. very much coming to Ithaca and I enjoy living around them - my
. children were students and that is not the situation or the case,
I just wanted to make sore that was clear for the record^
MS. SACCESE� I really feel badly about that, I was a student at
. Ithaca College, I was a graduate student at Cornell , I have three
. children who are students, I mean, really^ ^ , ^
' MR^ SAGCESE� I just wanted to make sore that was clear ,
^
^
`
--- -- —
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 1
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEN YORK
September 3, 1985
SECRETARY HOARD� The next appeal is APPEAL NO . 1647 for 505
SOUTH AURORA STREET�
Appeal of Stephen and Linda Hovanec for an area
variance for deficient setbacks for the front
yard and one side yard under Section 30^ 25, Col-
umns 11 and 13 of the Zoning Ordinance to permit
the conversion of the single family dwelling at
505 South Aurora Street to a two-family dwelling.
The property is located in an R2a (Residential ,
one- and two-family dwelling) Use District in
which the proposed use is permitted; however on-
der Section 30^57 the appellants most first ob-
tain an area variance for the listed deficiencies
before a building permit or certificate of occu-
pancy can be issued for the conversion.
MR. TAVELLI� My name is Paul Tavelli from the Law Firm of
Tavelli , McDermott and Seldin, I am an attorney for Mr . Stephen
Hovanec who sits on my left and he is the contract vendee for
at 505 S Aurora Street that is a fancy word that he is
premises ^ '
buying the house. In the white jacket is Mr . Douglas McEver , he
owns the premises at the present time. He has a contract to sell
. the property to Mr . Hovance, contingent upon zoning approval .
Now originally, apparently these two young men appeared in front
of the Planning Board by themselves, I had told them that I
thought it was a textbook case, where an area variance, but they
ran into some problems with owner-occupancy, parking, students
and a lot of issues that may or may not be germaine. First of
all I would like to give a plot plan to each of the members of
the board just showing the particular premises as it sits on the
/
' BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE** 2
lot . I would also like to file a letter from the prior owner ,
who owned the property from 1958 to 1976^ I only have one copy
of that letter , I just obtained it this afternoon. Now basically
what you have is a side yard deficiency on the northerly side and
a setback deficiency ^ It is an unusually large lot for South
Hill . If you look at the plot plan, there is fifty-one feet side
yard on the sooth, or an excess of fifty feet anyway - this isn ' t
drawn by a surveyor but it ' s fairly close so you have a fantastic
'
amount of room on the southerly side of this particular property
and not too much room on the northerly side, therefore the set-
back problem on the north. And also there is a front yard defi-
ciency problem as you can see. The hoose itself is about seven-
,
' teen feet from the line approximately, instead of what is re-
qoired under the Zoning Ordinance. Now basically, obviously, the
' practical difficulties are enormous of moving this hoose over and
back. * It meets all of the other requirements with respect to
'
' parkinS^ I ' m informed by the prior owner that it was a two-fam-
ily hoose, we have no personal knowledge of this. Mr . McEver
bought the property about ten years ago and he will speak in a
minote^ He elected not to rent the upstairs and has never rented
the upstairs. He is now moving, has the property for sale and
��
' has found that he can only sell it as a two-family hoose~ ��e �� (1
bought it as a two-family hoose, he tells me that there was a
kitchen on the second floor and a bath, when he bought . Now Mr .
Hovanec wants to spend a considerable amount of money, op to
twenty thousand dollars fixing it op and renovating it but he
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*. 3
. does not want to renovate it, of course, until the area variance
' matter is cleared op. I want to emphasize that this is not a use
variance, we are only talking about practical difficulties, we
are not talking about the use of this particular premises, al-
though the way I read the law, I think there has to be - to deny
this there has to be some finding that granting this would be
detrimental to the public health and safety in this particular
neighborhood and Mr . McEver has just done a brief survey - if you
would comment Doug on what you found about the surrounding neigh-
borhoods. First with respect to setback and side yard, what have
you foond?
' MR^ McEVER'+ As far as side yards, on dual hooses and triple
' hooses, there are none that meet the required ten feet . There
was one out of forty-one homes that I canvassed, that met the
twenty-five yard setback requirement for the front yard deficien-
cies . Out of forty-one homes, I found sixteen residential , the
remainder are commercial properties . Triple or more family homes
- there are six. Dual families - there se twelve^ Single family
rentals - there are seven. Dual family residential occupied
ren-tals, five. So, as you can see, as far as off-street parking in
the area, there is a total of sixty-nine parking spaces for all
^ of those houses.
MS . FARRELL'* Can you tell me about where you did that? �
MR. McEVER*+ This was the five hundred block of South Aurora
Street, both sides , the four hundred block of South Aurora
Street, both sides, it was the surrounding whole block of 500 '
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE*+ 4
which is the four hundred block of Hillview, four hundred block
of Hodson and two hundred block of Columbia . Now, in addition to
that there was one home that was recently - last year - changed
over , It was on Hodson Street - 416 Hodson Street - was changed
over ~ It was basically a dual rental property - the owners are
the owners of the restaurant or grocery store, lived upstairs,
they rented the whole boildinS^ Since then, it has been changed
. over to a two-family home and whether that was grandfathered or
whether there was a variance? I couldn ' t tell you. I just no-
ticed it yesterday . But they did not have a front yard setback,
they don ' t have either side - has enough yardage from where the
.
building extends out to, As a matter of fact, one side has two
feet, the other side one foot^
MR. TAVELLI++ Doug, when you bought this what was it advertised
as, what did you boy it as?
MR^ McEVER'+ It was advertised as a two-family and when I bought
it it was two-family. There were occupants upstairs - one
occupant upstairs as well as one occupant down - well the owner ^
' MR ^ HOVANEC'* There still is an existing kitchen on the second
floor ^
�
MR* McEVER'# I never took the kitchen or the bathroom out op- �
stairs, I never changed the doors or the fundamental floor plan
upstairs, I never changed the floor plan downstairs, I just pot �
carpeting in and made it look a lot nicer ^ The reason that I .
' want to leave, is there are no children on that block and I have
four young children and I would love to Set out in the coontry^ .
' ------ — - -- --
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*4 5
Also into another educational system which I think will suit my
oldest two children a lot better than the Ithaca educational sys-
tem. I think it is too bad that I couldn ' t sell it to a single
family. Out of the fourteen people that have seen the hoose -
before Mr . Hovanec had seen it in the two weeks that I had it op,
one person was looking as a residential only, the rest of the
people were either looking for rental property or they were com-
ing in as incoming students who would boy it, use the bottom
floor and rent the top portion. So you can see it is almost im-
possible for me to sell this hoose other than a dual family.
MR . BOOTH'4 That is based on two weeks trying to sell it or on a
longer experience?
MR. McEVER*# Well I tried to sell it once before, back in 1978
and that was for a six month period in which time everybody that
came in was looking at it as a residential and rental property
�
combined. There was nobody looking for it - at that time - as a
strictly residential . Since then, we had not pot the " sold" sign
' op until about a week ago, and since then I ' ve had - there were
.
fourteen people in the first two weeks - and then we ' ve had four
' or five people after that and everybody - still - was just look-
ing for - boy - rent out the top floor to pay while they were
.
going to college.
'
MR. TAVELLI'# Steve, what do you plan for this property?
' MR ^ HOVANEC'+ Well I plan a three-bedroom apartment upstairs and
` a two-bedroom downstairs, which essentially keeps the occupancy
the same because there are five people living there now. So it
- --
,
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE� 6
' is not really changing the number of people. Also, I have a par-
king plan that is drawn op on it, if you would like to pass that
around. And that, I believe, would park nine cars and that is
' only using approximately half of the lot space there, Jost to
' show that by buying this it could help alleviate other parking
problems in the area, I ' m making more space available for parking
for other tenants in the area (unintelligible) .
MS. FARRELL� Parking doesn ' t really seem to be the issue on the
' appeal ^ , ^
' MR^ TAVELLI� Righty it isn ' t an issue, but it was apparently
brought op at the ^ ^ ^
MR. HOVANEC� It was brought op at the last meeting,
' MS ^ FARRELL� Because you ' ve got two spaces and you need two
spaces,
MR . McEVER� Both Mr ^ Hovanec and myself are firm believers that
if you are going to have occupants there, it is better to have
off the street parking, Mr . Hovanec has total plans for
utilizing that parking space and making sore that there is more
' than enough so that nobody will be parking on the street,
`
MR^ SCHNAB� Mr ^ Hovanec are you planning on occupying?
. MR. HOVANEC� Only temporarily while I am doing construction
'
there*
MR, TAVELLI' But he does not intend to live there and we take
. the position that that ' s - you know - a legislative fonction^ If
.
you want to legislate that people should live in this particular
district, it should be done, but it shouldn ' t be a condition of
r- — ----------
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE'o 7
an area variance that is very minor in natore^ A side yard with
a very wide lot and a setback that no hoose in that area meets
.
-you shouldn ' t legislate who should live there and who shouldn' t
live there. If the legislature wants to say only one-family
'
' hooses on Aurora Street then maybe they should pass a law to that
,
effect, but right now it is a two-family dwelling and a two-fam-
ily dwelling is allowed there and there are practical difficul-
ties in trying to do something about this side yard and setback^
^
'
MR* HOVANEC** I ' d like to say too that I ' ve been combing the area
lately and this is - within a two and one-half block area - this
' is the largest lot in that area.
MR, TAVELLI'* He is not asking for new construction or to build
another hoose on the lot , he is just asking for the two minor
setback problems *
MS , FARRELL*6 I have a question, I can ' t imagine why he is
^
^
thinking that he would need nine spaces^ ^ ,
' MR ^ HOVANEC*# I just did that to show that there was ample space,
' MS^ FARRELL*+ Okay. And you are talking about two apartments and
' there would be six unrelated people - or whatever - I mean, even
' if you had six spaces^ ^ ^
`
MR , McEVER+f Well I think we have to 8o back to what the last
meeting was, we had an individual who is an official in this Com-
' monity that spoke op in reference to the amount of parking -off
street parking in the area - that there wasn ' t enough available
' and that - to create more possible street parking it would be
detrimental to the area - and we want to prove that we aren ' t
`
. .
`
. .
. .
.
. .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 8 '
going to be creating any more - as a matter of fact, we may be
'
taking off the street , additional cars, which is basically what '
this individual was talking about, I believe.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions from members of the Board?
.
.
MR . SCHWAB** It is currently grass there or what is there?
/
MR. McEVER+q It ' s driveway, there is a little bit of yard and
.
garden there .
MR^ BOOTH� I ' m trying to clarify something in my own mind. If
you bought it as a two-family hoose and you haven ' t changed it .
. and you feel (unintelligible) why are you here applying for a
|
variance?
^
MR^ McEVER� I was informed by a couple of building inspectors '
that unless I was renting it out for the full time period, if I '
let it lapse more than one year it wouldn ' t have grandfather
rights any more, so I went to , ^ ^
SECRETARY HOARD� That ' s not - I ' m not saying that isn ' t what you
' were told, the reason is there is no record in our files that it
has ever been approved as a two-family.
MR. BOOTH** Oh, I see^ As far as you knew, it was a one-family?
' SECRETARY HOARD� RiSht^
MR^ HOVANEC� It is obvious though, I mean, anyone ' s examination,
you could tell that it - you know - the kitchen cabinets, the
' sink, the gas line going to the stove, the bathroom - everything �
�
' is there^ �
' MR^ McEVER� A separate lock for the downstairs apartment sec-
tion. I removed the lock for the upstairs apartment because I
- ------ - ' '- -- --'
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*# 9
didn ' t want any of my children locking themselves in the bedroom
area that I use . But the upstairs - if you can follow the op-
stairs plan, on the north side of the building (unintelligible)
left hand side - all those rooms are connected on that one side.
Two rooms are connected - the bedroom, the living room and the
kitchen follow through and then the bathroom is in the next sec-
tion* Every room is connected with doors all the way through
there*
MR. BOOTH'4 And what is the significance of that?
MR. McEVER'+ I was just trying to show how that apartment was set
op and it is still set op that way.
MR. BOOTHt You haven ' t been using that primarily for very much? '
MR. McEVER 'f We have been using it for children ' s bedrooms* You .
see I have four children - my wife and myself - there are .
actually six people there,
MR. BOOTH** Do you have a copy of the real estate advertisement .
. .
. when You bought it? .
.
.
MR. McEVER� No I don ' t have. I tried to Set ahold of Mr ^ Joe .
. Cassinetti in the last few days to get a verification from him
that that was what was represented but Mr ^ Cassinetti , I believe,
is out of town - he has been out of town since Thorsday. I did-
n ' t realize I was going to need it until the last minute . I had
'
an appointment with Mr . Tavelli on Friday afternoon and I have
been trying to get ahold of him ever since and I found out that
he was out of town and he still is oot of town, there is no way I
could have gotten him op here to verify it,
' ------ -' --- '-----' ----�-- �---�-
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 10
SECRETARY HOARD� Mr , Booth, there was an affidavit submitted by
the previous owner ! "To Whom It May Concern** I resided at and
owned the property at 505 South Aurora Street from 1958 to 1976, '
At that time I sold my home in 1976 there were two complete
`
apartments^ Sincerely /s/ Imogene S . Hyde, 11 Deer Ron Road, .
Newfield, New York 14867, " This was brought in by Mr . Tavelli .
tonight, .
' MR, BOOTH� I see. .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions from members of the Board? '
^ Thank you gentlemen. Is there anyone else who would like to '
^
^ speak in favor of granting this variance? If you would come '
' forward please, have a seat in front of the microphone and '
identify yourself . '
MS , NOCUEIRA� Now I live next door in back of them* I have a '
' three family hoose, I rent to five students, I have the same
^
width lot that he has and I have no trouble with the parking
whatsoever ^ Each one of my students have a car , that ' s five plus
'
mine that is six cars. So I believe that McEver should have that
two-family hoose - I ' ve been there forty-four years and I ' ve
always known that hoose to be a two-family hoose and they never
have any problems. That ' s all ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Thank you. Jost a moment. First I would ask
your name for the record?
MS, NOCUEIRA� Marie Nogoeira, my husband is Anthony Nogoeira ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Would you be so kind as to spell it for os?
MS, NOCUEIRA� N 0 C U E I R A.
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE*' 11
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Questions? '
MR . BOOTH� What is your address? '
`
MS. NOCUEIRA� 509 South Aurora Street in Ithaca here, '
MR. BOOTH� So you live just sooth^ ^ ^ '
MS, NOCUEIRA� Next to McEver ^ , ^
MR , BOOTH� The next hoose south or the next hoose north?
MS^ NOGUEIRA� 509, he is 507^ South. '
MR ^ BOOTH� As far as you know, the hoose has always been `
`
two-family? For forty-four years? '
MS, NOCUEIRA� Yes, But when I first moved there, they waited '
until their children went to college - then they started renting `
the top floor out, what was their name? '
`
MR, McEVER� Mrs . Hyde ' s name was Mrs^ Costello at that time . '
^
MS ^ NOCUEIRA� Costello, yes^ And then after their children went .
to college they had rented it out - two-family. .
MR . BOOTH** Do you know approximately when that was - when that ,
^
started? When they started renting the top floor?
,
MS^ NOCUEIRA� More than ten years, I know that. At least fifteen
years probably.
MR. BOOTH� Is that the same^ , ^ ^ ^ .
MS. NOCUEIRA� Twenty years ago^ ^ ^
SECRETARY HOARD'* No this is Imogene S. Hyde and she said ^ ^ , .
MR. BOOTH� I mean Mrs. Costello* . .
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions from members of the Board? '
\
Thank you very much. .
MS^ NOCUEIRA� You are welcome ^ .
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE** 12
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Is there anyone else who would like to speak in
favor of granting this variance? (no one) Is there anyone who
would like to speak in opposition to granting this variance?
MS. SACCESE� My name is Lorraine Sag8ese ^ I live at 201 Colom-
bia Street, I ' ve lived in Ithaca since 1950 and I ' ve lived in
this hoose since 1964^ First , to my knowledge that was a one-
family hoose when we moved in. We knew the Costello family and
they were Mr ^ K Mrs, Costello and three children . It wasn ' t un-
til later until there were family problems and Mr . Costello and
Mrs. Costello were divorced and Mrs. Costello turned to taking
some student teachers from Cortland - a single person to live
opstairs ^ To my knowledge that is the extent of the upstairs
rental ^ I do not think it was done through the proper channels,
the conversion, that I know of but we heard Mr ~ Costello working
on it, on the upstairs. Well my concern is one, I hate to see it
go as a single-family hoose because there just aren ' t single fam-
ily hooses anymore, it is a beautiful family dwelling and there
. are
just no children in the neighborhood - there are just
more
and more students moving in and when we moved there, back in
1964, there were lots of families^ Our children went to South
' Hill and we watched everybody grow op, but now the children have
disappeared from the neighborhood^ It is just getting lopsided,
it is just getting too many students there and it seems like we
have to think about a better balance, On the east side of the
five hundred block, now we are right on the corner so the back of
our hoose is this end - basically the north end of Mr . McEver ' s
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE.* 13
^
hoose, there is less than four feet between our hooses - we are '
extremely , extremely close. There is only that one single family '
on the east side in the five hundred block of South Aurora
Street, There is only one single family on the west side of the '
^
five hundred block - I think these are things that we have to
think abootr I mean, it is just getting so dense. Students '
across the street are five or six - have been horrendous for five '
or six years now. The traffic is bad, I ' d hate to see nine cars '
pulling out of the lot next door . It is like an extension of '
Ithaca College coming down - extension of the bars coming up . It '
is just so noisy and the students just live in a different world, '
`
they don ' t realize that people have to sleep to 8o to work the '
`
next morning - they just don ' t live in that kind of world. `
MR* SACCESE*4 I too am concerned. I ' ve been in Ithaca for thirty '
^
some years and I ' ve been in the field of education and I ' ve seen '
'
families who have been turned away from housing, with children, .
because they can ' t afford houses . They are leaving the Community .
to find places outside. And we have a South Hill School that is .
about two blocks from this hoose and I think we ought to be en-
couraging children to live there - it is a beautiful yard -with a
little creativity, with a fence, you could have a very safe en-
vironment and they could walk to school , And I really am con- `
cerned about the garbage - all you have to do is walk op Aurora ^
Street on a Saturday night or a Sunday morning and you will see '
nothing but trash and we have nothing but landlords who don ' t '
live there and we ' ve got students all over the place and no one ^
__ -- -
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE'. 14
cares and I am very concerned about the South Hill . The article
in the paper represents the feelings of a lot of people on South
Hill - I did not petition people to come here tonight because I
didn ' t think it was proper - I felt that if they wanted to show
op, they coold^ I am concerned about fire. With our hoose being
so close to this hoose - three feet - three and one-half feet -
if there was ever a fire we wouldn ' t stand a chance and all you
have to do is observe the behavior on that street and you would
know what my concerns are,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ For the record would you identify yourself?
MR. SAGCESE+* I ' m sorry ~ I ' m Pat Sag8ese, I live at 201 Colombia
Street, it is just three feet from this other hoose,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ All right, Thank you. Are there questions
from members of the Board?
' MR^ SCHAAB'# Is your hoose on the lot line?
MR^ SACCESE'� My hoose is on the lot line, yes .
MR ^ BOOTH� Do you have parking, off-street?
MR. SACCESE*+ I have a garage for my car , yes . And I rent
another parking space across the street^
' MS^ SACCESE+# Because we have two cars.
MR ^ SACGESE'� Because we have two cars and I don ' t keep it on the
street. I rent a place.
MR, BOOTH * Across which street?
MR. SAGGESE't On Colombia Street.
MR. BOOTH'* And you ' ve owned your hoose how long?
MR. SACGESE'+ I ' ve been there since 1964^ And we ' ve put a lot of
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 15
money into the upkeep of it. We ' ve got a lot of money invested
into it.
MR^ BOOTH** What is your recollection of when this second floor
of this hoose began to be rented.
MR, SACCESE� As my wife said, when there were family problems,
they had student teachers from Cortland^ ^ ^
MR. BOOTH� I understand that, do you have an approximate date?
MR . SAGCESE� About ' 73 maybe?
MS. SACCESE� I really don ' t remember the date because , ^ ,
MR^ BOOTH� On your street, are there other single-family hooses?
MR. SAGCESE� Jost os,
MR^ BOOTH� Jost yoo^ '
MS, SACCESE� No, there is the Smiths. .
MR, SACCESE� Oh, on Colombia Street?
MR^ BOOTH � Yes, Colombia Street, yes. .
`
MR* SACCESE� Yes there are, .
MS^ SACGESE� The Smiths, I don ' t know about the Fontanas on the
` other side* .
' MR^ BOOTH� Do you know how many? .
'
MR. SACGESE� Two or three^
MG, SACCESE� Two that I know of, I don ' t know about further down
the block.
MR. SAGCESE� I ' m concerned about Aurora Street, very concerned
about it.
MR, BOOTH� On the five hundred block of Aurora Street, do you
know of any other single family hoose?
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE'. 16
MS . SACCESE� Jost one, McEver ' s hoose and across the street,
Mrs. Sommers has a hoose and that is all that is left, students
are just taking the whole place over . He have been there so long
and we are seeing this and we agree completely with the people
down farther on South Hill and the people op above os on South
Hill - I don ' t think it is right - I don ' t think it is fair - I
don ' t think it is fair to the people who have lived here for a
long time and raised families and want to see other families
there too, I mean, what kind of a neighborhood do you have when
it is getting so lopsided? I think we have a commitment to peo-
ple of the City. We ' ve both been active in the Civic Association
and we tried to Set it started, my husband tried to get it
started and it didn ' t 8o through, maybe he will try it again,
because I think we need a strong Civic Association .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Again, identify yourself please ,
MS, FELDMAN� My name is Carolyn Feldman and I live - I own the
hoose at 205 Colombia Street and my back yard is next to the back
'
yard of the McEver ' s^ I share a lot of the same concerns that
the SaSSese ' s do and I have sort of a slightly different orienta-
tion because I rent out half of my hoose and so I am not totally
against having two families, but I ' d like to speak in favor of
owner-occopancy^ I think it makes a tremendous amount of
differ-ence, I know the hoose on the other side of me is just students
by themselves and it ' s wild. I mean, I often have to close my
windows because I can ' t think - the music comes in, And you can
hear - all of the non-owner-occupied rental units, I mean they
K�
�
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE� 17
are very loud and obnoxious and I think it really ruins the
neighborhood, I have the same concerns about the loudness and the
lack of families. On my street there still are families and I ' m
worried that they will feel driven away by further students . I
think we have enough students. So I ' m not against them having a
two-family hoose but I ' d like to speak in favor of it being at
least owner-occupied so that there is some sort of control , '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Questions from members of the Board? '
MR^ BOOTH� Did you say how long you ' ve owned your property? '
MS, FELDMAN� I also bought my hoose in 1976^ '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Thank yoo^ Is there anyone else who would like '
to speak in opposition? '
MS. CUMMINCS� I ' m Susan Cummings, 214 Fayette Street and the
Alderwoman for the Second Ward.
' MR^ TAVELLI� I would like to object^ If she isn ' t within the '
. .
two hundred feet, I don ' t think she should be addressing the
. Board^ '
.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� We ' ve - in the past - allowed representatives '
that represent that Ward - to speak, just to answer Mr . Tavelli ' s
'
objection. Continue please ,
MS. CUMMINCS� Thank you, I have been asked to speak, by my Con-
stituents. First of all I would like to do a disclaimer and say,
while I have every confidence in the Hovanec ' s reputation for
quality construction and while we do indeed need quality housing
in the City for students and for all sorts of ventures, I feel
that this is an inappropriate hoose for that conversion and I
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*. 18
would like to list the reasons why^ There are basically three
areas I ' ll address, that of its being a single family hoose, I
will address the neighborhood trends, and thirdly and most impor-
tantly I think the point that Mr ^ Tavelli made, are the public
health and safety issues. I ' ll start first with the single fami-
ly home issoe ^ I was talking with the Building Inspector Mr .
Luce, who tells me that he has been familiar with the house since
he grew op as a kid on South Hill as well as in his official ca-
pacity with the City, he has been aware of it as a single family
home - the conversions that were done, obviously it appears to be
in the 1970 ' s, to be illegal conversions and I would like to
point out to the Board that that is a problem which plagues os
throughout the City, as you well know, and I certainly hope that
we can come op with every means possible not to institutionalize '
- those conversions which represent a broader problem. So to '
benefit my knowledge and Mr . Loce ' s, this is a single family home
with - it ' s (unintelligible) an accessory owner-occupied rental
situation for a brief period of time^ Secondly, neighborhood
' trends, you have heard residents speak about their concern for
the stability of their neighborhood, I think you should know that '
' we in the Planning Department have been working with residents on
lower South Hill , surveying properties on the Hodson, Prospect,
Pleasant - let ' s see, did I leave anything out - Aurora area, and
. what we are finding is two tremendous pressures at work - there
is a tremendous pressure, of course, for conversion to student
housing, and running equally one hundred percent is the movement
--- - -- --
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*. 19
on the part of your young families or young, singles who try to
boy into the area and we have been seeing a number of these homes
which have been purchased and have gone - oh, in one case, gone
from being a four unit to being a two-unit - we believe that this
is a trend which could well , indeed, continuer so when someone
says I tried to sell my hoose and I couldn ' t sell it, I would
say, at what price? And again, I think the neighborhood can be a
strong neighborhood, I think the City needs to assist it . So
that is a bit of thumbnail sketch of the neighborhood. As to the
public health and safety issues, you ' ve had it pointed out as to
how close it is to the Sa88ese property, I think there is a real
danger in creating third floor occupancy. My understanding from
the Planning Board meeting, was that the attic, current attic of
the hoose would be converted into the living room space, the bed-
rooms for the second floor apartment are on the second floor ,
living room was going to be changed to the third floor , which
'
would pot the living space awfully close to a hoose next to it on
^
' the north side. I think that is a fire hazard, and in a particu-
lar sense, this is not the place, this is not like the prior ap-
peal with a hoose easily accessible, this is a place where the
road is very steep, very hard to get to and to get in between
hooses, ^ . ^
MR, HEAVER'* May I ask a question? He have an application here,
were you not aware of the details of that?
MS, CUMMINCS*+ I do not serve on the Planning Board, I have not
seen the application, I have heard the Planning Board testimony
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 20 '
referring to the third floor living space which was^ ^ ^ ^ '
MR^ NEAVER� But there is no reference to the third floor in the '
application. '
MS. CUMMINCS� No, there wasn ' t at the Planning Board either , '
but.
MR^ AEAVER� Because they discussed it, doesn ' t mean that it has .
anything to do with this case.
MS, CUMMINGS� I ' m sorry but I believe their Counsel indicated
that the third floor was going to be the living room^ .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Being more specific Charlie, I believe on page .
4 - at the bottom of page 4 there are some comments with respect .
to third floor , insolation, ceiling and walls, thin-3s of that .
`
sort. .
MS^ CUMMINCS� The bedrooms and bathroom is on the second floor , '
is my understanding of it^ '
`
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Jost to clarify that,
. MR^ HEAVER� But I see that, but I ' m looking at our case. I just '
want to make sore that I know what the case is^ `
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I think that we can discuss that forther ^
MR, WEAVER** All right. Pardon me,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Please continue,
MS. CUMMINGS� One final point as far as (unintelligible) again I
think the plan calls for a third floor conversion to living space
with such a limited side yard, I think it is dangerous partico-
larly on that hill ^ And finally, I am concerned about creating a
lot of parking - traffic in and out of their yard on to Aurora
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE. 21
Street hill . It is a shame to take what is a rather nice green
space that has potential , as Mr . Sag8ese pointed out, and torn it
into parking^ I suppose that many of you are, perhaps aware that
we have, indeed, already - this past week -had an accident with
Ithaca College student, new to the area, pulling out of the seven
hundred block of South Aurora Street where there has been a lot
of on-yard parking, and creating an accident. It is an accident
that the next door neighbor (unintelligible) would happen, he had
been trying to get cars ticketed and moved off from the yard. It
is a dangerous hill to create substantial parking, egress onto*
So because of the location of the hoose on the hill , I think the
health and safety hazard is greater than it would be in a hoose
on the flats ^ I think if the neighborhood trends are strong to
support single-family or owner-occupancy in the area and, my un-
derstanding is that it has functioned legally, which is what we
would have to be concerned about as a single-family house . I '
would suggest if it was to be anything other than a single-family
. the way it is built, it should be an Accessory Apartment Ordi-
nance, '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN't Questions from members of the Board?
MR, BOOTH� I hear Your comments about health and safety. I am
corioos if the entire secion of Aurora Street is zoned for what
these people are proposing?
MS, CUMMINGS*+ It is zoned for R-2 and I think one of the inter-
esting things we ' ve been seeing in the past couple of years is a
change in the nature of R-2 use. Perhaps a few years ago, five
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE4. 22
years ago, the conventional wisdom was absentee owners didn '4in-
vest in duplexes because the payback was really not substantial
enoo8h4 We ' ve been seeing, in the Planning Department, we ' ve
been seeing a substantial number of conversions, R-2 hooses, for
use by unrelated individual , primarily students, which brings a
much higher rate of return. So we have been feeling that the R-2
zone may well not be defining the type of use it was originally
intended to. We are seeing new construction, subdivision
requests going in on South Hill for two doplexes^ Someone is
going to do new construction to hoose only six people per build-
ing, this is going to be student housing for Ithaca College.
There is a shift in the market^ So I think that the R-2 descrip-
tion was meant to describe one and two family units, they are
soddenly becoming student doplexes^ It is a different type of
critter .
MR ^ BOOTH*+ But that is not what the Zoning Ordinance says.
MS^ CUMMINCS** Correct.
'
MR. BDOTH'# Are you proposing to change it?
^
MS. CUMMINCS*# I believe there are, yes, indeed, there are dis-
cussions under way for a rewriting of our residential zoning des-
' criptions^
MR. BOOTH'* In this area?
MS ^ CUMMINCS'+ City-wide.
MR, NEAVER'+ Is there some significance to the fact that the
Planners are studying the lower part of South Hill and not this
section?
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*+ 23
MS^ CUMMINCS'+ No, as a matter of fact - well that is the area
which is zoned R-3 and neighbors over a period of a year have
requested a zoning change - it came from two different blocks -in
the lower South Hill area - the R-3 line runs down the middle of
Pleasant Street and that is why we have - just in this past month
- done an inventory of those hooses, There has been a survey
done of the condition of the housing stock on lower South Hill
starting with Hillview Place down - which is funded in large part
by Neighborhood Housing, which is a pretty comprehensive survey
'
that does take a large area of lower South Hill . But the signi-
ficance was the R-3 zone, not because of a difference in the con-
dition^ Oh, I wanted to point - there are a few more single-
family homes, Mrs. SaS8ese has mentioned two, I can think of a
couple more, Elsie Haines on the two hundred block, and Doke on
' the four hundred block, they are there - quietly - still there.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** Further questions from members of the Board?
(none) Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak
' in opposition to granting this variance? That being the case, it
' is oors^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE! 24
DISCUSSION BY THE BOARD - APPEAL NO. 1647
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I will merely do my Chairmanly duties by
��
reminding the Board that we �� dealing with an area variance not
a use variance *
MR. HEAVER� I ' d like to So back to the application^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I ' ve never left it Charlie ^
MR. NEAVER� I want to know what the plans are for the third
floor ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� The only hint that I have been able to
discover , Charlie, is^ ^ , ^
MR. HEAVER� (unintelligible) talk about type X sheetrock^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s righty there is nothing insofar as the
plans per se, there is nothinS, ^ ^ .
MR* BOOTH� Why don ' t we bring the applicant back and ask him. '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ Is that your pleasure? '
MR . WEAVER'* Well I would like to know what the application is^ '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I think that would be a good idea* If the '
^
applicant would come forward please. As you ' ve heard, there is a '
bit of a question as to exactly what is going on on the third `
'
story^ '
MR* HOVANEC�, Okay, well I ' ve gone to the Building Department,
there are no plans, only asking if I could use the third floor . '
It is not for a third floor apartment, it is in conjunction with '
the second floor apartment^ These plans are all tentative, they
are not solid plans, they are just something that I drew op of
what I would like to do and they said, in fact it was Lee Naegely '
' -- - --- -
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE** 25
that I spoke to, said that if I did tear out the stairway going
op to the third floor , that if I widened it to thirty-six inches,
if I supplied the four percent lighting that I needed in the
third floor , eight percent lighting - thirty percent window open-
ing - that I could use that as a living room for the second floor
apartment . I didn ' t say I was going to do it, I asked if I
coold^
MR. BOOTH� Well we are asking you. What are you proposing?
MR ^ HOVANEC� I would like to use it, if it ' s legal . I mean,
that is what this whole thing is about, what we can do and what
we can ' t do. It would give more space to the third floor - more
living space* With or without it , there is ample room to - by
closing off the back stairway and making the front - or excuse
me, the other way around, by closing the front sta4e and making
the back stairway the main entry, there is ample space for three '
bedrooms* It would just give more living space and make a larger
apartment . I ' m not trying to get any - this is not going to have '
any benefit for me either positive or negative. .
MS. FARRELL� Would you pot a living room on the second floor
are there plans for a living room on the second floor? .
MR . HOVANEC� These are the only plans that I have, they show
existing and what is there - if I knew what my tenants plans .
,
are, ^
^
MR. SCHNAB� So tentatively you are planning a living room on the '
third floor of the building as it, ^ ^
MR, HOVANEC� Yes at this point it is a little difficult to get '
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE� 26
into anything very costly, you know, until I find out what I can
do^ If you don ' t find in favor here, why I can ' t 8o any further ,
you know, bot ^ ^ ^
MR. HEAVER� May I ask a question? You understand the '
distinction between conforming with the building code and
conforming with the Zoning Ordinance? '
MR . HOVANEC� Yes, right . '
MR. NEAVER� You were talking to a building code person . .
MR^ HOVANEC� Yes, righty and he was referring to the book, I .
`
suppose, on two-family in R-2 areas^ ^ , .
MR. NEAVER� On the building code? .
MR. TAVELLI� Mr . Hovanec understands that he has got to comply
with all kinds of building ordinances, if he receives approval to ,
have a two-family^ ^ ^ ^
MR. HOVANEC� You know, I could rent it out like it is and pack ^
people in now, because as I say, the kitchen is there, the bath- '
room is there, I could pot twenty-five dollars into the place and ^
leave it like it is and rent it, if I wanted to just have an eye- '
sore and have an over-crowded apartment, but I think the place
^
has the potential to have two nice sized apartments in it^
MR^ TAVELLI� Are you intending to rent to students or you have
no intent one way or the other?
'
MR^ HOVANEC� I don ' t really care, you know, I think anybody �
knows its economics - you borrow money on a place - and what your
-/
payment is and what you have to make - and you know, my rent
would be set and whoever wants to rent it, I have no - I could
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 27
care if I rent to students right nowr or family .
MR. BOOTH� Your neighbors obviously care.
MR ^ HOVANEC� Well I sent out twenty-one notices and only these
two people have come to complain^ And also they state that it is
three and one-half feet - the boundary - which I think is
important - is from their living area - which is three and
one-half feet from their garage, their hoose is - I estimate is
approximately twenty-eight feet - their living structure - from,
and I think that is very important, I think they misstated the
situation there ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions? Thank you gents.
MR ^ SACCESE� Are we allowed to speak again?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+* No, I ' m sorry^
MS. SACCESE� But there is something that was not clear .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I understand, but that is for os to understand
at this point. If we find that we need your we ' ll call you.
Thank you. And we may need your but that is for os to decide ^ '
Thank you. Discussion? '
MR. BOOTH � If there was something that was misstated, I ' d like ^
to hear what that is - I know it is late, but this is obviously a '
contentious case. I ' d rather hear ^ ^ ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s your preference? .
MR^ BOQTH � That is my preference, it may not be the Board ' s
preference but it is my preference. '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� If you would come forward.
MS . SACCESE� I don ' t understand what Mr . Hovance meant that it
' --- --' — ---- --- ' --' -----------
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE** 28
was only a garage - we have a back room downstairs and we have
two bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs and they are still the same
distance apart.
MR^ HOVANCE� You have a garage - it comes off from your hoose,
your actually dwelling is, in my estimation, ^ ^
' MR^ SCHNAB� Let me just clarify this, All I have here are the
plans of this hoose, on your lot line, the garage is here ^ ^
MS. SACCESE� The garage is on the ground floor .
'
MR. SCHNAB� And directly above the garage is the living area?
'
'
MS. SACGESE� Above the garage is , ^ oh, excuse me^
MR, SCHAAB� Or is it setback?
MS. SAGGESE� Yes, it is, I ' m sorry . It is set back .
MR. SCHNAB� Okay, so your bedrooms and whatnot are a little
further ?
MS. SACCESE� Yes, definitely they are, I forgot about the roof.
.
We are not above the garage, it is just - (unintelligible) about
the closeness of the hoose that I just didn ' t think. Excuse me,
I owe you an apology (to Mr . Hovance) ^ But we do have a back
room, it is not just the garage that is close, we do have a back
room,
MR. SCHNAB++ Oh, there is a back room next to the garage?
MS, SACGESE� Next to the garage, yes,
MR^ SCHWAB'* On the ground floor? '
MR^ BOOTH'* On the same level? ^
"
MS, SAGCESE� Yes^ ^
^
MR, SCHNAB� And that is three and one-half feet, or whatever , '
'
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE.' 29
from the hoose, or close , very close?
MS* SACCESE� Yes, it might be - it dips - three feet.
MR^ SCHWAB! Maybe it is six feet?
MS. SACCESE� No it is not that far , it is just where the water
drips down.
MR. SCHNAB� So you do have one room that is quite close?
MS. SACCESE� Yes, very close.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions from members of the Board?
I ' ll be glad to entertain a motion.
MR. WEAVER'* Question. Granting this variance, would it apply to
a proposed possible extension into the third floor or does this
non conforming building bit not require another building permit
or a variance in order to develop the third floor for living
purposes *
SECRETARY HOARD� As this was presented to me, it represented
using the third floor . I don ' t know if that answered your '
question or not. '
`
MR, SCHNAB� That is my understanding, if he is proposing to - as '
^
far as the zoning code goes, because he wants to use the third
floor .
MS, JOHNSON� Can we require that this be limited to
owner-occupancy? Or is that not~ ^ ^ ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� The question was whether , in fact, we could
require that the building be owner-occupied - that the owner '
maintain ownership - and I don ' t believe we could very easily.
MR, BOOTH� Well we did earlier this evening. '
-
'
^
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 30
, CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s true. But a different sort ,
. MR, SCHNAB� But the main problem that I see is that it is
perfectly authorized under the Code there,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s right .
MR. SCHHAB� Two separate dwellings^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s right.
MR. SCHNAB� Whereas in the previous case, which was a
grandfathered user that was not
^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** In the prior case, there was no basis for that .
SECRETARY HOARD� What the Ordinance says is that in granting any
variance the Board of Appeals may prescribe any condition that it
deems to be necessary or desireable so that the spirit of this
Chapter shall be observed, public safety and welfare secured and
substantial justice done.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Would you like to defend that if it were the
' case?
' MR, SCHWAB*,. Yes we could.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Yes we could bot^ , ^'
' MR, SCHNAB� It seems to me the only way to deny this ordinance �
' is on some sort of finding that the safety in using that attic,
which there have been some allusions about that I am not in a
'
' position to^ ^ ^ '
' SECRETARY HOARD** I think that is governed by the Building Code,
' not the Zoning Ordinance^ '
. /
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I think you have to come back to that question, '
^ .
' practical conditions - or practical difficulties and special '
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE** 31
conditions, I mean, have they met that test?
�
^ ~~^
MR. NEAVER'+ Well we have a little weaks here, I ' m depending on
the Building Code to provide the safety, in my statements fur-
ther . We have - at least some of the neighbors who are concern-
ed, plus alarmed over expanding the occupancy of the stroctore^
They think that that would be detrimental to the neighborhood.
If the building stays, essentially, the way it is, the same num-
ber of bedrooms, bathrooms, etc . , I see merely the owner or the
proposed owner , exercising the right to do what ' s legal to do in
that neighborhood, under the Zoning Ordinance^ However , if they
propose to expand into an attic, which has no history of being
occupied, I see expansion of the capacity of this apartment which
� is quite a separate issue as far as I am concerned ~ If that were
the only thing (unintelligible) it on, it were a duplex and it
was a request to increase that we would not be concerned about
possibly increasing parking requirements and possibly increasing
occupancy (unintelligible) . So, here is a second floor apartment
'
with three bedrooms , a study and a living room plus a kitchen.
The need for expanding the third floor isn ' t readily apparent and
I find it quite a different issue and I don ' t - I hope that the
whole thing doesn ' t fall on the basis of that but I would be
quite a bit more sympathetic to opposition of expansion of the
living area which is really an imposition to the capacity versos
reconversion, if you will , back to a duplex, which by some rather
substantial testimony ( unintelligible) has been a fact as it ap-
plies to this house . So whether it is occupied as a single with
' ---- ' -- ---
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE** 32
a couple of doors open or you lock them off and 8o back to the
' duplex, I ' m fairly much at ease with that but I ' m not at ease
with expanding the capacity of one of them, even though it is
inside the frame.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Further comments?
MR. SCHHAB*+ And it complies with the code, as far as, ^ ^
MR^ NEAVER*+ It may comply with the Building Code bot. , ,
MR ^ SCHNAB*# No, not the Building Code, the Zoning Code^ ^ , no
more than three unrelated in each apartment.
MR . WEAVER** If you are assuming student occupants, no more than
three and goodness knows what they would then need the third
' floor for ^ Or , given a family, I can see where the parents might
. need that for an escape room. But I can ' t see that - in the pre-
sent application, as we see it, a proposed buyer , trying to boy
this hoose that was single or duplex, never mind which, in a
neighborhood where the zoning allows a duplex, and nothing else
changing, I find it hard to shoot down, not to allow it. The
only reason they are here is that side yard that can ' t be fixed
and a front yard that shouldn ' t be fixed, because it would be
incompatible with the rest of the housing in the neiShborhood.
This is the only deficiency that I can see. An expansion of the
capacity of the place would be quite a different matter . '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Further comment? In my own mind, for what it '
^
is worth, I will merely share with you a few of my ideas. I am ^
not exactly sore about the special conditions of this particular '
instance - couldn ' t they make compliance with the regulations '
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE*+ 33
impossible? If - it seems to me there are a couple of things
that were indicative of this , One could question how long it ' s
necessary to have something on the market before one comes op
with schemes, of whatever kind, with whatever owner , And I
guess, secondly, the nature of the application itself seemed to
be so sketchy that I was left a little bit uncomfortable with it .
' MR, BOOTH*# What are you suggesting?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'f Nell , it seems to me that if Charlie ' s progno-
sis is correct, and if we hadn ' t have gotten into the third
floor , we would have had tougher questions, a far tougher ques-
tion of balance between one side and the other . I tend to agree
' with the fact that there is likely to be a exacerbation of what-
ever difficulties might exist, assuming there are some, op there,
if, in fact, you do open op the attic and begin to start con-
struction of the interior ^ To come back to the earlier discus-
sion we had about what is a use variance, the notion of what hap-
'
' pens to the inside as opposed to what is going on in the struc-
ture, I suppose buttresses my thoughts in that direction.
MR . SCHHAB'+ But this isn ' t a use variance .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ I understand and I ' m not trying to confuse the
matter whatsoever , but what you see is that sort of exacerbation
the same way - the flip side of the same coin.
MR , NEAVER*+ Dick ' s original question about the amount of time
that the building was listed and how difficult it was to sell
would be appropriated, if they were trying to get a use variance, '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ Absolotely^ '
`
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 34
MR. WEAVER** They don ' t have to prove that at all ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� No, I ' m not suggesting that would*
MR^ NEAVER� It seems to me that is a sharp left torn and it has
nothing to do with this case. Whether this is the first goy that
said I ' ve Sot the money , when can we move in? It ' s fine with me,
I don ' t care how many people. ^ ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Well I ' m still groping though, Charlie, for the
practical difficulties and special conditions and what I want you
to dov I guess, is make me an argument on the other side of the
question which would show that,
MR. WEAVER� That is very easy ^ The practical difficulties in
ti s case are simply that the building has a long established
Jmc/ ^�~-
_ ��
(on^..telliSible> , that it is too close to the left lot line,
looking at it from the front, that complying would require moving .
the building (unintelligible) some substantial distance and the
same thing is true of the deficient front yard - both of those
are practical difficolties ^ It seems to me that it would be fi-
nancially inappropriate - impossible, essentially, to move that '
building, which is the only solution to the side yard setback and
the front yard setback. If that ' s not a practical difficulty, I
.
haven ' t been exposed to one lately. '
MR . SCHWAB'* And even further , no deficiencies being exacerbated . '
. .
' MR, NEAVER� Nothing at all ^ '
. '
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� And the spirit of the Ordinance doesn ' t change '
^ the character of the district, so yoo, , ^
. ,
' MR ^ NEAVER� The district is zoned for two family and. . .
`
' BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 35
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� No, he didn ' t make a motion but I ' m pushing the
' MR , HEAVER� I want it to be clear that when we do make a motion
it will be ready to fly .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I just want to bring op both sides of the
.
argument in asense because we should be clear what exactly we
. are addressing, I guess that is why I ' m pushing. . *
^
.
MS . FARRELL' This seems to me demonstrated for an area deficien-
. cy problem it would mean a lot, especially if he sold the build-
ing. I find it unfortunate that there seems to be such, you
. know, concern in the neighborhood about conversion to student
.
housing and things like that . I don ' t think that ' s what our job
. is and this seems like it ' s the practical difficulty of the front
'
. yard and side yard problem^
. MR, NEAVER� Another thing that ' s been addressed here, pardon me
. Tracy, a good number of people, appropriately saying that it is
. pretty uncomfortable to live near students, especially when they
are unsupervised off campus, I agree, from experience, but if we
' are going to have as the law of the land a City Ordinance that
says students shall not live here unless they have a hoose
' mother , let the Common Council pass the Ordinance or if there is
another solution, that has nothing to do with zoning, some kind
of Ordinance that really can be enforced that has to do with
trash and with noise . And neither of these is in the Zoning Or-
dinance* I just - I am sympathetic with people who feel - the
wave moving down the hill or whatever way it moves - it moves
next door to you and it is very unpleasant. However , I think
' — -- --- ----
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 36
that is a legislative problem and I ' d be glad to A them address it.
' Certainly I can ' t see that they would have the nerve to say that
' they are opposed to students living in a particular section of
the City, That might be a little bit more uncomfortable, but
' they are willing for os to try to do that through the devious
' method of being tough on variances if it is in a sensitive area.
'
We don ' t hear any complaints from an Alderperson, for example,
' for duplexes in the INHS territories , in fact, it is a nice thing
' and the possibility that those might be students is something
' that we are not required to consider . I ' m just trying to talk
`
about the Zoning Ordinance and the way I look at it* The fact
. that I ' m not insensitive to people who find them poor neighbors,
them being students*
'
^
^
'
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 37
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1647 505 SOUTH AURORA STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Stephen
Hovanec for a variance to permit the conversion of the single
family dwelling at 505 South Aurora Street to a two-family
dwelling . The decision of the Board was as follows�
MR, NEAVER� I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1647 with the
condition that the structure be limited to those
portions of the building that have traditionally
been used; specifically the third floor shall not
be included.
MS. FARRELL� I second the motion.
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT�
1 ) The side yard setback, the front yard setback as currently
deficient will not be exacerbated by conversion of this
single family dwelling to a doplex^
2) That the granting of this variance will be for a use that is
approved in the neighborhood and will be compatible with the
current ose^
MR. BOOTH� I ' d like to speak.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I thought you mi8ht^
MR, BOOTH*+ I ' ve been wrestling with this kind of problem all
summer in another context ^ I think Charlie correctly addressed
the nature of the problem and to pot it succinctly in the Ordi-
nance encourages this kind of conversion. It is a policy ques-
tion clearly of great import to the people who live in these
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PACE� 38
neighborhoods as to what the answer to that policy question
should be but I think the Ordinance clearly encourages this kind
of conversion. I ' m going to vote against the motion, I think one
could make a case that increasing traffic from this property onto
Aurora Street - there has been some testimony about that and
that ' s indicative consideration - I would agree if someone were
to characterize that as a weak read, I would agree that it is a
weak read but I am going to vote against the motion^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Stewart, Helen, any thoughts?
MR . SCHNAB� No public thoo8hts. No added thoughts.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Okay, then if we could have a vote?
VOTE 3 YES; 3 NO VARIANCE DENIED FOR LACK OF 4 AFFIRMATIVE
VOTES, ( 1647A)
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� So we need to vote one more time. We ' ve had a
positive motion, let ' s pot forward a negative motion?
MR ^ BOOTH� I move that the Board deny the area variance
requested in appeal number 1647 ^
MS, JOHNSON� I second the motion^
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT�
1 ) There is adequate testimony in the record that the proposal
is not consistent with the character of its immediately
neighboring property to the north .
2) There is some evidence in the record that allowing this hoose
to become a two-apartment unit will increase egress and
ingress problems with respect to Aurora Street ^
3) The applicant proposes to expand the living space in this
' BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE� 39
hoose beyond that which has been historically utilized.
�
VOTE� 3 YES; 3 NO VARIANCE DENIED FOR LACK OF 4 AFFIRMATION
VOTES ( 1647B)
BZA MINUTES 9/3/85 PAGE** 40
FURTHER DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO^ 1647 AFTER THE VOTE**
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Mr . and Mrs. Sa8gese would like to make a
statement * Jost very quickly please because we do have to move
along.
MR. SAGCESE� I was concerned about what Mr . Weaver implied, that
I didn ' t like living near students and that I shouldn ' t be
'
telling them where to live,. That is not troe^ I enjoy students
very much coming to Ithaca and I enjoy living around them - my
children were students and that is not the situation or the case *
I just wanted to make sore that was clear for the record^
MS. SACCESE� I really feel badly about that, I was a student at
Ithaca College, I was a graduate student at Cornell ? I have three
children who are students, I mean, really^ , ^ ^
. MR, SACCESE� I just wanted to make sore that was clear ^
`
,