HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1985-08-05 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY OF ITHACA NEW YORK
AUGUST 5, 1985
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Page
APPEAL NO. 1634 Carmen & Virginia Canestaro 3
145 Linn Street
Discussion 9
Decision 11
APPEAL NO. 1636 Myron & Pauline Wasilchak NO ONE SHOWED 13
APPEAL NO. 1637 Loretta Lucente 15
701 Mitchell Street
Discussion 21
Decision 26
APPEAL NO. 1638 Chris Anagnost 27
312-14 N. Geneva Street
" Decision 34
APPEAL NO. 1639 Peter J . Malison HELD OVER
215-17 Prospect Street
APPEAL NO. 1640 Martha Wolga 35
103 Spring Lane
Discussion 38
Decision 39
APPEAL NO. 1641 Cornell Radio Guild, Inc. 40
" Decision to Defer 54
More Discussion 55
APPEAL NO. 1642 Ithaca Agway Cooperative 59
120 South Fulton Street
TABLE OF CONTENTS (Page 2) August 5, 1985
APPEAL NO. 1642 Decision 69
APPEAL NO. 1643 James R. Orcutt, D.D.S. 70
324-26 Dryden Road
" Decision 93
APPEAL NO. 1644 W & B Supply Corporation 95
618 West State Street
Decision 105
CERTIFICATION OF RECORDING SECRETARY 106
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE� 1
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
CITY OF ITHACA NEN YORK
COMMON COUNCIL CHAMBERS
AUGUST 5, 1985
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** I would like to call to order the August 57
1985 meeting of the City of Ithaca Board of Zoning Appeals^ The
Board operates under the provisions of the Ithaca City Charter ,
the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, the Ithaca Sign Ordinance and the
Board ' s own Roles and Regulations. Members of the Board who are
present here tonight inclode�
MR, CHARLES WEAVER
MS. TRACY FARRELL
MR. STEHART SCHWAB
MS^ HELEN JOHNSON
MR. MICHAEL TDMLAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD
MR. THOMAS D, HOARD, SECRETARY TO THE BOARD
. AND BUILDING COMMISSIONER
. MS^ BARBARA RUANE, RECORDING SECRETARY
. ABSENT� MR^ RICHARD BOOTH
The Board will hear each case in the order listed in the a8endom^
. First we will hear from the appellant and ask that he or she pre-
sent the arguments for the case as succinctly as possible and
then be available to answer questions from the Board* We will
then hear from those interested parties who are in support of the
application, followed by those who are opposed to the applica-
tion. I should note here that the Board considers interested
parties to be persons who own property within two hundred feet of
the property in question or who live or work within two hundred
feet of the property . Thos the Board will not hear testimony
from persons who do not meet the definition of an interested par-
ty. While we do not adhere to the strict roles of evidence, we
�
�
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*' 2
' do consider this a quasi-judicial proceeding and we base our de-
' cisions on the record. The record consists of the application
' materials filed with the Building Department, correspondence re-
' latin8 to the cases as received by the Building Department, the
planning and Development Board ' s findings and recommendations, if
any, and the record of tonight ' s hearing. Since a record is be-
ing made of this hearing it is essential that anyone who wants to
' be heard come forward and speak directly into the microphones so
' that the comments can be picked op by the tape recorder and heard
by everyone in the room. Extraneous comments from the audience
will not be recorded and will therefore not be considered by the
� Board in its deliberations of the case, We ask that everyone
' limit their comments to the zoning issues of the case and not
comment on aspects that are beyond the jurisdiction of this
Board^ After everyone has been heard on a given case, the hear-
ing on that case will be closed and the Board will deliberate and
reach a decision. Once the hearing is closed, no further testi-
mony will be taken and the audience is requested to refrain from
commenting during deliberations* It takes four votes to approve
a motion to grant or deny a variance or a special permit. In the
rare cases where there is a tie vote, the variance or special
permit is automatically denied. Tonight, because we have five of
the full Board - that is six members -present we give those ap-
pellants out there who wish to, the right to request a postpone-
ment of your case, in that it does take four votes out of five,
. to grant. This evening, you have that right and, if so, we would
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE'. 3
like to hear from you at this point. Is there anyone out there
who would like to be granted a postponement? (no one) That be-
ing the case, are there any questions about our procedure from
anyone out there? Then may we proceed to our first case?
SECRETARY HOARD*# The first appeal is APPEAL NO^ 1634 145 LINN
STREET
Appeal of Carmen and Virginia Canestaro for a use
variance under Section 30,25, Column 2, and an area
variance for deficient lot width under Section
30 ^25, Column 7 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit
the conversion of the two-family dwelling at 145
Linn Street to a cooperative dwelling for one to
five unrelated individuals, The property is loca-
ted in an R2b (Residential , one- and two-family
dwellings) Use District in which a cooperative .
dwelling is not a permitted use; therefore under
Sections 30.49 and 30^57 of the Zoning Ordinance
the appellants most obtain a use variance for the
proposed use as well as an area variance for the
deficient lot width before a building permit or
Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the pro-
posed conversion. This appeal was held over from
the July 8, 1985 meeting of the Board to enable the '
appellants to present additional information to the '
Board.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ If you would step forward? As before, please '
'
begin by identifying yoorselves°
MR* CANESTARO*+ Hello again. I ' m Carmen and this is Virginia. '
I ' ve brought several items here which I would like to have you
look at and consider . The first of which is a diagram of Linn
and Farm Street - I ' ve tried to indicate in the diagram, the uses
that are made of the properties immediately surrounding the prop-
erty in question, just to Sive you some idea of the character of
the neighborhood as it is now. I thought it might help you -to
familiarize you with the neighborhood as it stands - do you just
---__________
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 4
want to pass those around to the Board members? The second thing .
that I have is, we went around the neighborhood again - to the
property owners who own the property - in the Farm Street and '
Linn Street area - which surround the property in question, and '
the properties that they own are indicated on the right, their '
signatures and the date appears in the first two columns on the ^
left. All of them, as the petition indicates, support the vari-
ance reqoest^ Also, no one objected to the variance, that I know ^
^
of , anyway^ The third thing that I have is a contractor ' s esti- ^
mate of the additional cost that would have been involved in `
keeping the property a two-family structure rather than a one- '
`
family, Mainly we are talking about the cost of a kitchen, a ^
. �
. heating unit and hot water tank and a couple of other things "
. .
here* This is a contractor ' s estimate of the additional cost `
. .
that would been involved. And I also have taken photos of where ,
^
^ that kitchen - if we had pot it in - where it would have 8one^ .
. .
^ The photos - there is a legend with the photos that describe what /
. |
the photos represent. And you will be able to tell from the pho-
tos that the old kitchen laid directly on the ground and you ' ll
` see the pipes that were lying directly on the ground, which
caused enomerable freezing problems to the former owners of the
. property, This would have had to be corrected, this is all part
of that estimate^ In summation, just to refresh your memory, we
~
' are simply asking that the former property under the existing
codes, we would have been entitled to rent to six unrelated per-
sons, three in the upstairs apartment and three in the first
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE4, 5
floor apartment, We are asking to rent to one less, we are not
asking to increase the density, we are, in effectr saying we are
going to decrease this density, The improvements, again, that we
are making, is going to serve to increase, not only the property
that I own, but also the surrounding properties. My taxes are
going to 8o op, the valuation, I would assume, of the properties
surrounding it, will certainly not be decreased, and it will
probably help to increase it. I am sore the City fathers like
this type of thin8^ And, last but not least, is - I want to re-
mind you that the Planning Board voted for approval with a five
to zero vote - whatever affect that has - whatever . Oh, and we
have also increased parking by doing what we did, which was ample
to begin with but it doesn ' t hurt to add a parking space^ So I ' m
happy to answer any questions that you might have^
MS. JOHNSON++ I think our questions before had to do with a
financial analysis of hardship^ ^ ^
. MR, CANESTARO+* Right and that ' s coming around, That shows what
additional costs I would have incurred, had I gone back to
apartments.
MR^ SCHWAB** Which is basically the cost of the kitchen, and you
had to redo that kitchen that doesn ' t have underground plumbing?
MR, CANESTARO** Right* The picture there - the photo - shows you
. where that kitchen was - and what we were talking aboot^
MR. SCHNAB*+ So as of now that is not going to be the kitchen?
MR . CANESTARO*+ That is not there . Because the kitchen occupies
- and I indicate that in the legend - occupies the former dining
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 6
' room, so we just did away with that,
MS. JOHNSON� What was the figure of what you pot into the hoose
since you started renovating it, to date? �
' MR^ CANESTARO� I paid twenty-seven thousand, five hundred for
' the boose^ Right op to today, and this doesn ' t include
' everything, I had thirty-six thoosand, five hundred and sixty-two
dollars that I ' ve pot into that hoose ^
' MR, HEAVER� In addition to the purchase price?
^
'
MR. CANESTARO++ In addition to the purchase price. I have a list
which I will be glad to give you to verify these figures, I ' ve
got checks to back them op,
' MS^ JOHNSON+* So what you are saying with this statement, that it
^
is another twenty-three thousand on top of the thirty-six?
^
' MR^ CANESTARO� That is exactly what I am sayin84
MS^ CANESTARO� Plus the purchase price^
'
MR. CANESTARO� As a matter of fact, we thought we were going to
' have fonds to side the place but that ' s by the boards now - pot
' vinyl siding on, we can ' t do it. In other words, if this isn ' t a
hardship, I don ' t know what is^
^
MS. CANESTARO� Part of it would be done with vinyl and then we
will stop at a certain point, , ^ ,
'
' MR, CANESTARO� He will do it eventually but it ' s not in the near
'
' fotore^
`
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Last month when you were before os you
`
' mentioned that there was a twenty-eight thousand dollar cost
. involved in the renovation, ^ . ^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 7
MR. CANESTARO'f Yes, that ' s right, but that was last month - now
I am op to thirty-seven thousand and five hundred and sixty-two
dollars, I can document that, I' d be glad to do it, Now that
doesn ' t include - we haven ' t had the siding yet - it does not
include the sink and all the kitchen cabinets and it does not
include the rest of the plumbing or the furnishing of the hoose^ '
So we are going to have a heck of a lot more money in it than we
had originally anticipated^ If any of you people own property, .
especially if you own old property, when you get into something .
and you rip a wall down, you don ' t know what ' s under that wall .
and this is what happened to os, it was - and I indicated this at .
`
the last meeting - it was in very poor condition and for os to .
try and pot a new wall op over rotted lumber - it ' s ridiculous, .
you can ' t do it and that ' s why we got into this additional ex- .
pense . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Further questions from members of the Board? '
MS. FARRELL+# The only question that I have is, if you have it as '
one unity you could either rent to - without a zoning variance '
'
you could rent to three unrelated?
.
MR, CANESTARO '+ That ' s it, '
MS, FARRELL'+ Adults, or three unrelated people^ ^ ~ or family '
could 8o in there. Can you sort of give os an idea of what the '
' difference in income would be^ , ^ ^
'
'
MR. CANESTARO+# Okay . What I did was, it is very hard to say what
could you rent it for . I would think that - I jotted some num-
bers down and I wasn ' t - I ' ll give them to you only because -they
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 8
are estimates - if we had two units, we could possibly rent for
four hundred dollars per unity it is possible. But you ' ve got to
always keep in the back of your mind - I ' d have that additional
cost - and with that I would probably - I would get about eight
thousand dollars a year , okay? If we rented to five unrelated, I
would anticipate - what I hopefully would be able to charger
would be five at two hundred and fifty, which is twelve thousand
five hondred^ Now at eight thousand a year , it doesn ' t even,
when I have over seventy thousand into it, that ' s what I ' m going '
to have - at ten percent interest, there is seven thousand right
off the top, I mean, at ten percent interest and you know you .
can ' t Set anything at ten^ So that ' s why I am trying to 8o for
. the five unrelated.
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Further questions? Thank you~ Is there anyone .
' else who would like to speak in favor of granting this variance? '
' (no one) Is there anyone out there who would like to speak in i
|
opposition to granting this variance? (no one) That being the
' case, it is oors^
'
'
'
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 9
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO* 1634 145 LINN STREET '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ A use variance and an area variance*
MR. SCHAAB*+ I think it seems clear that it would not change the
character of the neighborhood, we could start off with that - the
easier one. At least we ' ve had some documentation on the numbers
not of dollars essentially - it is at least over one-third
cheaper to go with one unit rather than two,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*f So you are thinking a little bit more .
specifically insofar as the use variance - you think there is an '
'
undue hardship by virtue of the specific case we are dealing with .
. .
here? Not shared, but somehow unique? .
MR* SCHNAB*+ Well unique I guess would be the - what is apparent .
at the outset that this hoose would require extensive repairs .
-we ' ve heard that - essentially jump your cost by a third^ What .
. .
else is unique about it? Certainly the revenue estimates are a .
. little sketchy, I ' m inclined to say it is enough but , ^ , does
anyone else have any reaction? '
MR. NEAVER+# I ' d support that with the comment that granting the '
variance with the limit to the occupancy to five people, where
strict conformance to the Ordinance would allow six persons, so
as far as impact on the neighborhood, on the density measurement,
certainly would result in one less tenant rather than one more*
So in terms of total occupancy (unintelligible) having less
guests would support your comment that the character would not
change^
MR, SCHWAB** Would not change.
8ZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE: 10
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN. Tracy: any thoughts?
MS. FARRELL'* About the same .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN2 Well I hear the pieces of a motion but I ' m not
Suite sere that I hear the motion.
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE'. 11
. APPEAL NO. 1634 145 LINN STREET
. The Board of Zoning appeals considered the request of Carmen and
.
Virginia Canestaro for use and area variances to permit the con-
. version of the two-family dwelling at 145 Linn Street to a coop-
erative dwelling for one to five unrelated individuals. The de-
cision of the Board was as follows*.
. MR ^ SCHWAB*. I move that the Board grant the area and use
variances requested in Appeal Number 1634^
MS* JOHNSON** I second the motion,
' PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT *.
1 ) As far as the area variance goes, practical difficulty was
shown in that the hoose would have to be moved or actually,
,
'
would have to be shrunk in width to comply with the width
requirement which is excessively minor , being only one-half
foot anyway.
^
2) The use variance findings show that the character of the
neighborhood would not be changed in that most of the hooses
are already occupied by unrelated individuals.
' 3) The variance would limit the number of individuals in this
building to five (5) persons, which is less than is lawful
for two units, were the Ordinance to be strictly followed.
4) The appellants ran into unforeseen financial straights when
' they discovered unusual problems in the hoose which increased
the renovation cost by some $23,000^OO, over one-third of the
total cost.
^ 5) Estimates show that to recover this extra cost they need the
BZA MINUTES 8151$5 PAGE, 12
extra income from renting to five (5) unrelated individuals.
VOTE: 5 YES; 0 NO: 1 ASSENT VARIANCES GRANTED
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 13
SECRETARY HOARD4# The next appeal is APPEAL NO. 1636 FOR 110
HANTHORNE PLACE*.
Appeal of Myron and Pauline Nasilchak for an area
variance for deficient lot size, and deficient set-
backs for one front yard and the rear yard, under
Section 30^257 Columns 6, 11 , and 14 of the Zoning
Ordinance, to permit the conversion of the existing
garage structure at 110 Hawthorne Place to a two-
family, owner-occupied? dwellin8^ The property is
located in an R1b (Residential , single-family) Use
District, where the proposed use is permitted; how-
ever under Sections 3O^49 and 30^57 the appellants
most obtain an area variance for the listed defi-
ciencies before a building permit or Certificate of
Occupancy can be issued for the proposed conver-
sion^
Is there anyone here on that?
CHAIRMAN TQMLAN*4 No one here to pot forward the case?
SECRETARY HOARD'* We will go on to the next case and at the end
of the meeting we will call this case a8ain. ^ ^
VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE'4 How about the opposition Mr , Chairman?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ We ' ll come back to this case at the end, Sorry
. to keep you here, waiting^ I can understand that some of you are
' here both for and against, to speak with respect to this one, but
. what we will do is essentially defer it, continue the proceedings
. with the next case, come back to this at the end and see if, in
. fact, someone has shown up*
VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE++ I ' d like to raise a question - if we have
come here in good faith to respond, with the idea that this would
' be the second on the agenda, why should we be kept for two,
possibly four hours, waiting for someone who is not here? I can
understand your point, in fairness - but I would like you to
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 14
consider that other point.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN4+ Those are part of the Roles and Regulations
that we set out at the beginning of the year - just trying to be
as fair and lenient to all those concerned^ We ' ve come op
against this problem before and really there is - there has been
argument on both sides~
VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE'+ You So one more case and then come back
to this one?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ He ' ll go to the end and - I ' m sorry - but if it
helps at all you could probably retire from the room for an hour
or so and do something else, but this is really the only way we
can proceed^
VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE'# Most opposition be spoken - could I
' simply leave a statement that you could enter into your record in
' opposition rather than waiting around two or three hours?
^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ We ' d be happy to accept your written statements
at this point or at some point during the rest of the evening, if
'
you want to hold on to it.
VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE'* And it will be given consideration^ ^ ,
^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN44 It will be read into the record as part of the
official proceedin8s^ Would you like to do that now?
VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE4+ I ' d like to do that^ I ' ll leave my name
' and address ^ ^ ^ ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+* To some of the rest of you who are out there
' waiting on this case, there is really nothing preventing the
individual - in a sense - to not show op this particular month
-----------
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 15
and come back and reapply at some point in the future and it '
becomes a problem we have to deal with, regardless . '
`
VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE� Thank you,, '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Thank yoo^ '
SECRETARY HOARD'* The next appeal then is APPEAL NO, 1637 '
701 MITCHELL STREET�
Appeal of Loretta Locenti for a rear yard setback '
variance under Section 35,4 of the Swimming Pool Or-
dinance to permit the installation of an above ground '
swimming pool behind the single-family dwelling at '
701 Mitchell Street^ The property is located in an '
R1b (Residential , single-family dwellings) Use Dis-
trict in which a residential swimming pool is a per- '
mitted use; however the appellant most first obtain a '
variance for the deficient rear yard setback before a `
building permit for the swimming pool can be issued. .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Would you begin by identifying yourself and '
give your address? .
MRS . LUCENTI� I'm Loretta Locenti and I live at 701 Mitchell '
' Street and basically I don ' t really know what to say other than .
"
' what is in your appeal paper ^ I did receive and I assume that .
you got your copy also, from the Ithaca School District, where .
' they state that they have no objections to the pool being placed .
where it is,
SECRETARY HOARD� We have not received it^
MRS. LUCENTI� You have not. Do you want to see it?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Please, yes. Do you wish to enter it into the
record?
MRS^ LUCENTI� Yes I do. It says on there that the Building
Department received a copy*
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE++ 16
SECRETARY HOARD*+ This is to Cordon Bruno, of the Finance
Committee of the Ithaca City School District, it is on School
District letterhead, from Cary Lindenbaom, he is the Business
Manager . "Sobject+* Request to Purchase School Property by Mit-
chell Street Residents and the Requirement to have a 10 foot Buf-
fer Zone Between the School Property and Mrs, Locenti ' s Property
to Facilitate Construction of a Pool ^ This is dated 23 July
1985^ Based on a review of the situation, I would deny the re-
quest for purchase of the school property based on the following
rational ** 1 ) The property serves as the only school property
' corridor ' between properties owned by the City and property
owned by the petitioners^ This property gives os additional ac-
cess to the City baseball field~ 2> Not all home owners on the '
street wish to purchase school property, and no reason indicating '
a particular hardship by interested property owners was 8iven^ '
. 3) We do not want to set a precedent by selling off school prop- '
'
erty without compelling reasons that benefit both the potential
purchaser and the School District. This case has neither . The
'
request for a variance to waive the 10 feet to install a pool by
the Locenti ' s - We should not have an objection to waiving the 15
' foot requirement between our property and the Locenti property.
The Locenti property is not in the immediate proximity ofthe
,
Belle Sherman Annex, and a discharge of the pool water supply
'
would not pose a danger to our structure. The Locenti ' s are re-
questing this variance from the Ithaca City Board of Zoning Ap-
peals, * "Based on our Finance Committee review, the attached
`
'
. `
. `
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE� 17 .
. .
' recommendations have been approved, " This second is a letter `
. .
' addressed to 'Mitchell Street Property Owners from Cary Linden- '
. .
' baom - subject** Request to Purchase School Property, dated 2 Aug-
ust 1985^ "Based on our Finance Committee review, the attached '
. `
' recommendations have been approved* ' Is this copy for os '
. .
' or would you like to take it?
^
' MRS. LUCENTI� Could you make a copy? It does indicate that you
' received a carbon copy.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� It never Sot here . Do you have any response -
' I ' m just trying to anticipate some of the objections, in a sense ^
' Do you have any response to the comments by apparently some
' people close by, about the drainage and the safety issues and
' things of that sort? With respect to the pool?
' MRS^ LUCENTI� With respect to the pool?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� There has been some comment about the safety
aspects - whether in fact it is properly enclosed, whether , in
^
. fact, the drainage for the pool might affect adjacent properties,
things of this sort^ Do you have any comment on that?
MRS. LUCENTI� Well when you fill a pool , it is supposed to stay
filled, The Pool people are the ones who are installing it, we
^
are not even trying to attempt it - they came to me highly recom-
mended - they are out of Syracuse and are called Fantasy Pools.
I looked into their background and they really come highly recom-
mended and I see their pools all over , I don ' t anticipate any
^ problems, If I anticipated problems with the pool , believe me, I
wooldn ' t have spent that kind of money for a pool ,
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE'#' 18
MR, SCHHAB'# As I understand it, if you had initially known the
set back requirement you could have placed your pool closer in
and met all the requirements, is that right?
MRS. LUCENTI'+ Well we can move the pool closer to the hoose but
the way it would look would not be very attractive. The pool is
half op right now. You see we ' ve got a unique situation on Mit-
chell Street and I don ' t care - there is no other place in the
entire City that has a situation like it^ Our back lawn - when
you look at it - it looks like a great big - it is one huge mass
of lawn, there are no neighbors behind os whatsoever . I do meet
the requirements on each side of os as far as lot line and the
back line is the only one that we are - is in discussion and we ' -
ve lived there in that hoose since 1969 and three land owners
before os came in and they bulldozed it off, they seeded it - you '
know, it is all grassed area and it is a beautiful area* We ' ve '
lived there for so long - I completely forgot that part of my '
lawn really isn ' t my lawn - you know - it belongs to the school .
Yet all the other land owners in the entire section there, they '
'
use that land also, there are people that have gardens there,
' they have - you know - they do all sorts of things behind their
property* Every one of os land owners get access and free use
and they maintain that land - you know - they have maintained it
every since we have lived there* It is just like it ' s - we ' ve
got the best of two worlds, we ' ve got this land and no taxes.
MR, SCHWAB'* Do kids from the school ever get op there?
MRS, LUCENTI41 No . There is a wooded area - well it doesn ' t show
----------------------- -- -----------------------
'
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 19 .
it in the diagram that you ' ve got but right behind the sixty feet .
of property - you see the School owns sixty feet behind our hoose '
and beyond that property there is a great big wooded area. The '
pool does have a fence around it, just like all the other - you '
know, that is a State requirement - and the way that we designed '
'
the pool , to Set into it, no one - absolutely no one - can get '
into it from the Sroond^ You have to enter the pool from my '
deck, that is from the back of my house. If somebody gets into '
'
it - other than going into my deck, on my private property, they '
`
shouldn ' t be there to begin with. You know, it is off limita-
tions, you know, where it is secloded^ '
`
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� The pool as it is presently is half op, am I '
correct in saying it is pre-hab, that essentially it is part of a '
kit, that is how they pot it together? `
'
MS. LUCENTI� You ' ve got me, It ' s half op, it only needs another `
half day to complete it^ .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� How long have they been working at it? .
MS, LUCENTI4 How long have they been working on it? It only .
' takes one day to pot the pool op, .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� So they have worked on it a half day?
MS. LUCENTI++ Yes.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� And how much space is there between the pool
'
and the back deck?
MS, LUCENTI� How much space?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Yes.
MS. LUCENTI� Well we are butting the pool op towards the back
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 20
deck so you can walk from the deck to the pool ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I see. Further questions?
MR^ HEAVER� In your statement you say that the cost of a
considerable amount of money (unintelligible)
MS, LUCENTI� Right . If we have to move the pool , what we are
going to have to do is take the stairs that go to my deck, off,
and rebuild the stairs and, you know, the entire pool has Sot to
be redone again - completely taken down and removed ^
MR. NEAVER� Do you have an estimate for it?
MS ^ LUCENTI� No I didn ' t ask them but I would imagine it would
be right around fifteen hundred to two thousand dollars to move '
the pool . Considering what they are asking to install the pool I
would say that that would be a fair estimate, '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions? Thank yoo^ Is there anyone
. else who would like to speak in favor of granting this variance?
. .
. (no one) Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition
/
. to the granting of this variance? (no one) Any correspondence?
, SECRETARY HOARD� You have received all the correspondence other
^
. than that from the School District.
'
- — ~
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE4. 21
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO, 1637 701 MITCHELL STREET
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*# One of the questions that I had that came out
in one of the letters Tom, was the notion of draina8e^
(unintelligible) for drainage on an above-ground pool is required
by Pool Ordinance,
SECRETARY HOARD++ They will have to comply with that.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*# So that ' s not really a major concern at this
point.
�
MS^ JOHNSON*+ Did you already ask for those opposed or those in
favor? �
�
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Yes, I haven ' t heard anything about a motion,
I haven ' t heard any general discussion* So it is ours for '
deliberation at this point*
MS. JOHNSON'+ Okay.
' CHAIRMAN TQMLAN++ My observation in general , in a sense, the kit
/
'
being one which did seem to be easily assembled, could just as i
. .
easily be disassembled and moved in whatever location or to '
i
whatever location at this point without a major investment in
time or energy^ So I am wondering, whether , in fact, we weren ' t
.
looking very close at a variance almost in a case where a pool
hadn ' t been yet constructed, because, in fact, it hasn ' t been
folly constrocted. The investment involved in constructing it is
relatively minor ^
MR, WEAVER** I tried to find out but - could I ask a question of
the appellant?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN't Sure.
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE� 22
MR^ HEAVER� I ' ve been trying to find out what it costs to have a
pool installed - let ' s start with an empty back yard - how much
does a person to come in and erect a pool?
MS, LUCENTI� Okay, they are charging me right now, nine hundred
and - we made one change in it - nine hundred and twenty-five
dollars ^
MR. NEAVER� Your statement indicated that you have to alter your
deck as well ^ ^ ^
MS. LUCENTI� I ' ve got to take the stuff off the deck, You see
it is not, as you indicated, just a simple little kit - they
bring an entire crew in - they bring in at least ten people and
each one of those has a specific job - you know - and if you are
potting op pools all the time, you can (unintelligible) right out
with no trouble at all ^ (unintelligible) Here is a picture of
what the pool will look like when it is completed but where it
has got stairs, it will still have the safety ladder , so you can
close it off, but no one from the ground can get into that pooI ^
The way I have designed it with the stairs off my deck~ , ^
MR, NEAVER� My question was on the matter of financial impact.
MS^ LUCENTI� It is going to be very expensive because we have
penetrated lumber , you know, we ' ve Sot to poor concrete slab, pot
op new stairs, you know, the whole bit. It is going to look like
an eyesore also^
MS^ JOHNSON� What is the size of this platform on your plan of
the hoose and pool and deck?
MS. LUCENTI� Are you talking about my deck itself?
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 23
MS. JOHNSDN'# No I ' m speaking of - it looks - oh, I see, the deck
and platform and then stairs down ^ ^ , so you would have to move
a section of the deck that looks like . * .
MS* LUCENTI*+ Yes, we ' ve got to move the deck.
MS^ JOHNSON'* Maybe four or five feet?
MS. LUCENTI*f You see the pool comes with a redwood deck, it
comes with a little deck itself ^
MS. JOHNSON*+ Right.
MS. LUCENTI+* He have - the entire back of our home is one great
big deck*
MS^ JOHNSON++ So this deck section that is listed - the smaller
thin section is part of the redwood deck that goes with the pool?
MS, LUCENTI*0 That is part of the pool ^
MS^ JOHNSON'+ So you would have to move that over say to the end
� and have the stairs somewhere else?
MS. LUCENTI'* Well they ' ve already cot the lumber ,
MS, FARRELL'* They cot the lumber to make the deck?
MS^ LUCENTI'# Well you see the pool , when you boy the pool it
' comes - they altered it because the way we - we didn ' t want
' people to come in from the ground - so we figured that if we
'
could have three steps coming down from our deck to the pool
deck, we ' d be a lot safer than, you know, having to get down on
the ground and then Set op into the pool . And besides it would
look a tremendous - it would add a lot of beauty, rather than^ , ^
MS, JOHNSON'* But you could get the same effect by removing that
deck and platform and putting it at the end and pushing the pool
`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*+ 24 '
`
op against the existing deck, right? Is that what* . . '
^
MS, LUCENTI't Then how are you going to Set into the pool? '
`
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� From the deck, '
MS, LUCENTI+f You ' d have to 8o - it ' s a lower level ^ Our hoose -
when you come into it, you come in on the main level - the '
driveway slopes down, so we have a walkout basement and our deck `
is extremely high off the ground, it is like one story above '
Sroond^ We have absolutely no neighbors behind os, there are no '
`
neighbors who will ever be behind us. ^
MS* JOHNSON+# So the deck would be the same height as the pool or
higher? .
MS, LUCENTI++ No, no. The pool deck is lower . The pool is only .
^
four feet deep* ,
^
MS. JOHNSON++ Yes but your deck is higher than the pool? .
~
MS. LUCENTI*+ My deck is higher than the pool , so we ' ve got to `
build stairs to go down to the pool deck, .
. .
. SECRETARY HOARD*+ And if they move it closer to the hoose then
. '
. they violate the role that it has to be fifteen feet from the
. basement of the hoose^
.
MS. FARRELL++ How far is it now?
' MS^ JOHNSON'* So it ' s not viable to move it in, that wouldn ' t
' take care of the problem?
' SECRETARY HOARD'+ Then she would be back for a different
' variance^
'
MS, LUCENTI'* Plus if I move it, then we' ve got to do some more
landscaping and - my lawn is ruined right now because I haven ' t
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE'* 25
been able to finish off the pool because they had to come in with
a bulldozer to level the ground so the pool would be level .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*t Further questions?
MR, SCHNAB'+ Is there going to be a fence around it?
MS^ LUCENTI*# There is a fence around the pool itself, when it is
built - that is a State law, it is part of the pool , Noone from
the ground can climb into that pool ^ I don ' t want them in the
pool unless I invite them. There is no way they could get in the
pool unless they are on my deck° Bot, safetywise I don ' t think
that ' s part of the variance I ' m going for - the variance that I
am going for is ten feet from the rear lot line and since my only
neighbor in the rear has no objections, I really can ' t see that
there should be too much of a problem with it*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN't Thank yoo^ Do I hear a motion?
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE� 26
`
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1637 701 MITCHELL STREET '
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of Loretta '
Locenti to permit the installation of an above-ground swimming '
pool behind the single-family dwelling at 701 Mitchell Street . '
The property is located in an R1b Use District in which a '
residential swimming pool is a permitted use; however a variance '
for the deficient rear yard setback is required before a building '
permit from this department can be issued for the pool ^ The '
decision of the Board was as follows** `
MR* NEAVER� I move that the Board grant the request for a ^
variance from the Swimming Pool Ordinance, `
' MS. FARRELL� I second the motion. .
`
FINDINGS OF FACT � .
' 1 ) The property immediately adjacent, on the south, is a .
' property of the Ithaca City School District which indicates `
`
' by letter that it has no objection, '
^
' 2) The installation will meet all the other requirements of the .
' Pool Ordinance. .
`
3) Granting of the variance will not impact upon the general '
character of the neighborhood. '
4) Practical difficulty is shown to be that this pool is '
`
' essentially installed at considerable expense which would '
'
result if moving it from the present location were required*
^
`
VOTE** 4 YES; 1 NO; 1 ABSENT VARIANCE GRANTED �
^
^
'
' '- -- ~--- - - ---~- -------- ---- -------
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 27
. SECRETARY HOARD4+ The next appeal is APPEAL NO. 1638 312-14
. NORTH GENEVA STREET '*
. Appeal of C, J. AnaSnost for an area variance for
excessive lot coverage by structures, and deficient
setbacks for the front yard and one side yard, under
Section 30,251 Columns 10, 11 , and 13 of the Zoning
Ordinance to permit the conversion of the apartment
. hoose at 312-14 North Geneva Street from four one-
bedroom and one two-bedroom apartments to one one-
bedroom and four two-bedroom apartments, The
property is located in an R3a (Residential-multiple
. dwelling) Use District in which the proposed use is
. permitted; however under Section 30^57 the appellant
most first obtain an area variance for the listed
deficiencies before a building permit can be issued
for the proposed conversion^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN't Come forward if you would?
MR^ ANAGNOST** I have some additional plans that I would like to
' t t Board.
pass out o the
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ Chris, if you would begin with your name and
' identification and where you live.
MR^ ANACNOST++ I ' m Chris Ana8nost, I reside at 914 E, State
^ Street^ This is my architect, Vince Mulcahy, he is responsible
' for the plans that I am going to show you this evening. The
hoose at 312-314 N^ Geneva Street was built by the Esty family in
'
about 1895, as a very large single-family house* It was conver-
ted during the 1930 ' s to five apartments, still retaining many of
' the elegant features of the original building - four fire places,
there are towers, there is a lot of nice detail work that has
been preserved^ The photographs that I have included with your
' packet will show some of the features in this building. My wife �
' and I bought the hoose in December of this past year and we have
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 28
been working at the apartments, renovating and repainting. A lot
of the features have been reconstructed and restored. When we
got to the second floor , front apartment, there is a room that I
have given a floor plan of - part of that apartment - which is
the only bedroom for that apartment which is about six and one-
half feet wide and fifteen feet long, which I thought was not a
very suitable bedroom^
MS. FARRELL'# You said which floor?
MR. ANACNOST' This is the second floor , front apartment.
MR. MULCAHY'4 On the existing (unintelligible)
MR, ANACNOST+# And I ' ve given you the detail in that package that
has got the survey. There is an enlargement of that apartment.
It is the room at the bottom * It is the bedroom for that unit*
It is six and one-half feet wide and there is a fireplace in it ^
What got me to thinking was that directly above this apartment is
the old ballroom, which is an enormous space, fifteen by thirty.
The hoose itself is like thirty by eighty feet, it is quite
large* There is very wasted space op in the attic - that I got
the idea if we could connect the front apartment with the ball-
room and there is a maid ' s room in the rear apartment and two
existing stairways that already So to the third floor so I Sot
the idea at that point to create a bedroom for that efficient
apartment and then the plans (unintelligible) I decided to in- '
corporate the entire top floor since it is a wonderful space. '
The apartments, you can tell from the photographs, are very '
larger very attractive - the type of tenancy that I have is per-
^
^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*+ 29
manent working people who are looking for a residence which is
more like a home that maybe can ' t afford and don ' t have the time
to maintain a hoose. So that is when I got Vincent ' s services to
help to figure out a way to do this* I spoke with Tom Hoard and
it all seemed feasible but since the hoose has a front yard defi-
ciency, a side yard and lot coverage - it covers thirty-seven
percent with the garage, of the lot, I came to you for a vari-
ance, The zone (unintelligible) the five apartments are exist-
' inS, I have adequate off-street parkin8^
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ The increase in number of people is essentially
from six to nine, is that correct? �
' MR^ ANAGNOST'# Number of people - like right now I have seven
. �
' because in one apartment I have a coople^ ^ ^
�
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ All right so if we were to speak about the
�
number of individuals, the number of people that are likely to be �
�
' in these spaces, could we deal with that just a moment, speculate �
' on that?
MR, ANACNOGT'# Yes, I ' m not looking for a maximized density in
' this hoose, I mean - the apartments - like one apartment is fif-
teen hundred square feet, I ' m sore I could pot a lot of people in
there but that' s not the type of tenants I ' m looking for . The
largest apartment has one occupant, a single woman who lives
.
there. The second largest apartment has a mother and son living
.
there* The third apartment has a couple living in it ^ So the
. type - I ' m not looking to pack the hoose, I ' m just looking to
develop it - it has nice potential and it is the kind of proper-
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 30
ty I feel that deserves this kind of development and intention,
You know, I could tell you that I plan to put a maximum number of
people in there but I haven ' t calculated that because that wasn ' t
an issue.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Further questions?
MR* SCHNAB'# Are any of the deficiencies being increased?
MR. ANACNOST'4 No the exterior of the building is not being
altered at all except for the possible addition of skylights in
the attic , to take advantage of the top floor . Vincent has
drawings here that we would like to 8o over with you - that
explain the floor plan^
MR, MULCAHY*# It might be a little easier to understand the floor
plans with these larger drawings. The first one shows the exist-
ing condition of the second floor - the second and third floors
are the floors at issue here, I can demonstrate what the changes
would be, As it exists now, on the second floor one enters this
front unit from this stair , you arrive in this little corridor to
get into this front unit. The front unit is essentially a kit-
chen, living room and a small bedroom. The middle unit is enter-
ed from the same location and then the unit at the end is entered
from another location, back on the side of the house. There is
an existing stair going op to the third floor and another exist-
ing stair here, going op to the third floor ^ What we have pro-
posed is to include another stair between the second and third
floor , each of these stairs is internal to the onit^ In this
case a stair would move op to the third floor , connect a room in
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 31
the third floor with this unity thus creating another bedroom,
. In this case the stair which previously ran from here op to the
' third floor is switched around so that it connects this unit in
blue with a space on the third floor . And in this case the unit
. remains unchanged. Let me just show you the proposed plan of the
third floor - to show you the result, Again, color coded, the
result would be a bedroom over that living space, on the third
floor with beautiful views out to Geneva Street. A bedroom over
that middle unit again in the same stair space, and again, this
is the existing maid ' s room which remains onchanged^ Those would
be the modifications that would be necessary on the two floors,
If I might editorialize a little bit on this - this is a remark-
able building, in fact. It ' s, in my estimation some of the work
that been done on the building since the Anagnosts purchased it,
is some of the best work that I have ever seen. Hardwood floors
have been repaired and refinished, Instead of simply patching
old plaster , new plaster - not sheetrock, has been installed in
' the units. And there has been kind of tender loving care applied
' to this building, that is most onosoal . Some have argued that in
' the next century, which isn ' t that far off, that the single fam-
ily hoose is going to be obsolete. I wouldn ' t make that argu-
ment, I don ' t think that is true in a commonity like Ithaca, but
' I do think that it is true that Ithaca needs a kind of housing
' like this in which the residences are gracious and spacious and
they are very large -I' ll read to you what the square footage is,
' In this location, I think not only is it good for the hoose, be-
,
- - '- ^ ---- - ----------
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*+ 32
cause of the good things that are happening to this hoose, but it
is also good for the center of Ithaca to have the potential for
this kind of residential circomstance. Let me just Sive you an
indication of what the square footage is of these five units -
are and will be, based on this kind of proposal . The existing
square footage in unit number It which is on the first floor ,
that is an existing, two bedroom unity is thirteen hundred square
' feet, that ' s approximate of coorse^ Unit number 2, which is the
unit that we showed on the - the yellow unit here - exists as six
hundred and fifty square feet and with the additional space on
`
the third floor would be a thousand square feet. These are real-
ly unusually sized units, they are very grand - it is hard to
tell that from the floor plan^ Unit number 39 which is the unit
in blue here, exists as seven hundred square feet and again would
be approximately a thousand square feet with the improvement.
Unit number 4 is approximately seven hundred square feet and that
would remain unchanged and unit number 5 is - assuming the exist-
ing connection with the maid ' s room - is eleven hundred square
feet and that would remain unchanged. So the nature of these
units is that they are like small hooses and I think it ' s from my
experience it is very uncommon to find a kind of landlord who is
willing to maintain carefully that kind of rental option, And
'just one more editorial comment - I - maybe this should be left
for another part of the hearing but I own the property immediate-
ly to the south of this building, 310 North Geneva - and as a
member of the neighborhood I would - for completely objective
-
—
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 33
/
reasons -strongly support the proposal . Thank you.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions?
MS* JOHNSON� Jost curious as to why the deficiencies weren ' t
' listed on the worksheet?
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� On the worksheet, there is absolutely nothing
' there^ Any reason for that?
' SECRETARY HOARD� Well it is just a repeat of the same* Nothing
' has changed, So there would be three X ' s in row F ^
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Under items 10, 11 and 12^
' MR, ANACNOST� Oh, I ' m sorry. I ' m not used to this new format.
'
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions?
' SECRETARY HOARD� I ' d like to 8o down there to see these doors in
�
' operation, �
.
' MR^ ANAGNOST� The sliding doors?
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� They open at a forty-five degree angle*
^ SECRETARY HOARD� All those doors that don' t swing in the dark, , ,
^
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Special draftsman? No further questions?
Thank your gents * Is there anyone else who would like to speak
' in favor of granting this variance? (no one) Is there anyone
who would like to speak in opposition to granting this variance?
(no one) It ' s ours.
^
/
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*+ 34
DECISION ON APPEAL NO, 1638 312-14 NORTH GENEVA STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Christopher
Anagnost to permit the conversion of the apartment hoose at
312-14 North Geneva Street from four one-bedroom and one
two-bedroom apartments to one one-bedroom and four two-bedroom
apartments. The decision of the Board was as follows'#
MS. FARRELL*+ I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1638^
' MR. AEAVER4+ I second the motion^
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT *+
1 ) Practical difficulty in meeting the present area requirements
which could only be solved by making the present hoose
' smaller ,
2) The present deficiencies and percent of lot coverage, front
yard and one side yard, are relatively minor and would not be
exacerbated by the proposed changes*
3) The proposed changes would maintain the character of the
nei8hborhood^
4) Adequate provision for parking has been made by the
appellant*
VOTE*+ 5 YES; O NO; 1 ABSENT VARIANCE GRANTED
`
` .
. .
. .
`
`
^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE4* 35
SECRETARY HOARD'* The next appeal , number 1639 for 215-17
Prospect Street was held over by the Planning Board at the last
meeting so that would not come back before this Board until the
September meeting^ The next appeal then is APPEAL NO, 1640 for
103 Spring Lane'4
Appeal of Martha Nol3a for an area variance for
deficient street frontage, deficient lot size,
excessive lot coverage, and deficient setbacks for
one side yard and the rear yard, under Section
30^25, Columns 6, 7, 10, 12 and 14 of the Zoning
. Ordinance to permit the addition of a solar room
. to the single family hoose at 103 Spring Lane*
. The property is located in an R3a (Residential-
multiple dwelling) Use District in which the use
. as a single-family dwelling is permitted; however
under Sections 30^49 and 30^57 the appellant most
first obtain an area variance for the listed defi-
ciencies before a building permit or Certificate
. of Occupancy can be issued for the addition^
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*4 Please begin by giving os your name and
address,
'
MS. NOLCA*+ I ' m Martha WolSa-Kopas, 103 Spring Lane and this is
my husband, Arthur Kopas^ As you say, because of general area
deficiencies on the lot, we have come to ask for a variance in
order to be able to build a six foot by twenty foot solarium,
green hoose, to add that to the south side of the house. You all
have copies of the drawin8^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ I was curious as to how the six foot by twenty
foot dimension was arrived at, why six by twenty as opposed to
three and one-half by forty or are you going to - would you '
explain - how does this relate to the inside of the house and .
what is going on? '
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE� 36
MS, NOLCA� Nell , six foot because we now have much area there, I
think it is ten or twelve feet and we wanted it wide enough to
have plants and to have a small table and anything smaller didn ' t
seem to be adeqoate. We wanted to leave a few feet for passage
between the side of the building and the property line^ And
twenty feet is just an arbitrary fiSore^ It won ' t be more than
that, but it might be less than that.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Does that relate to anything that goes on
inside the hoose - that causes it to be twenty feet?
MS. AOLCA� No it won ' t , oh I see, you don ' t see the rooms from
there, It will stretch along the living room and the den and
will be accessible from the den but will also heat and son and a
view to the living room also.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Any questions from members of the Board?
MS, FARRELL� This doesn ' t change any of the present deficiencies
does it?
MS~ NDLCA� On the side yard, on the south side where it is being
added^ There are deficiencies already.
MS, FARRELL� Yes there . * *
MS^ JOHNSON� It increases it six feet,
MS. NOLCA+f Right.
MR, SCHNAB� What columns are being increased?
SECRETARY HOARD** Well the one side yard is decreased^ ^ ^ '
MR, HEAVER� I misspoke. '
SECRETARY HOARD� The percentage of lot coverage. '
MR^ SCHNAB� Column 10?
`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 37
SECRETARY HOARD** Yes, that gets worse,
MR, SCHWAB'* Is the only deficiency that is exacerbated^ ^ ^
SECRETARY HOARD'# Exacerbated, yes.
MS. FARRELL++ By three percent^ ^ ^
SECRETARY HOARD4+ As this Board is want to say^ ^ ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+f We like that term*
MR^ SCHNAB'+ And nothing becomes a deficiency*
MS, NOLCA+* You say it is increased by three percent?
MS ^ FARRELL*# It was already over by four and one-half* , .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ Further questions from members of the Board?
I feel the vibrations ^ , ^ ^ Thank yoo^ Is there anyone else
out there who would like to speak in favor of granting this
variance? (no one) Is there anyone who would like to speak in
opposition to granting this variance?
SECRETARY HOARD*+ I have a communication from Alderman Killeen
which has been written on the agendum, "Tom Hoard, This is OK as
it will only be a solar room for the family ^ It should not be
allowed to become another bedroom for a future owner of the
property nor should the solar room be allowed to be used by Ms.
Nolga for the conduct of, or expansion of her business, which is
psycoloSical cooncilin8 and weight control , tho ' this type of
cottage industry may now be permitted^ "
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'f The Council person has spoken,
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 38
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO, 1640 103 SPRING LANE
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* So is three percent too much, too little?
Does the - I ' m just raising this as a rhetorical question, in a
sense, to you Tom, does the property, having no frontage on a
public right-of-way, historically made any difference with
respect to granting a variance? In things that are so
land-locked, in a sense, my only concern was one of fire egress
and access, in a sense^ Has there been any , ^ ^
SECRETARY HOARD*+ Well we had a case a few years back on a
' property that was on a private lane and the Board ruled against
it, that was - not the owner , but the perspective buyer filed an
' Article 78 proceedings, and was successful in Court, getting it
' over torned^ The Council has still not changed the Ordinance to
^ correct that deficiency .
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ I see,
MR~ NEAVER*+ But the Plain Jane argument in that case, if I may
'
butt in, is that it was really a change of use to increase
density of use anticipated by the neighborhood, or by the
applicant in this case rather than planned population
(unintelligible)
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+4 Nell , do I hear a motion?
-
-- `
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 39
DECISION ON APPEAL NO, 1640 103 SPRING LANE '
^
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Martha '
`
NolSa for an area variance to permit the addition of a solar room '
to the single family hoose at 103 Spring Lane^ The decision of '
the Board was as follows**
MS. FARRELL� I move that the Board grant the area variance '
'
requested in Appeal No. 1640,
MR. NEAVER++ I second the motion^
,
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT�
1 ) The present area deficiencies could only be solved by making .
the hoose smaller . .
2) The only present deficiency that would be exacerbated is the ,
percent of lot coverage and that by the relatively minor .
amount of about 3%, ^
'
VOTE� 5 YES; O NO; 1 ABSENT VARIANCE GRANTED ^
^
^
'
^
^
`
^
^
- - -------- -
`
`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 40 .
SECRETARY HOARD*+ The next appeal is APPEAL NO. 1641 FOR 111 '
CHESTNUT STREET .
Appeal of the Cornell Radio Guild, Inc, , for a spe-
cial permit under Section 30^26, Paragraph C-4 of .
the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the installation of .
a translator antenna on the Nest Hill School at 111 .
Chestnut Street* The property is located in a P-1 .
(Public) Use District in which the activities of a
not-for-profit agency are permitted; however under ^
Section 30^26 a Special Permit is required for the '
antenna installation^ '
"
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Begin by identifying yourself and tell os where '
you live? ^
^
MR, KURTZMAN** I ' m Warren Kurtzman and I live at 113 College `
`
Avenue in Ithaca and I ' m the President of Cornell Radio Guild, '
^
Inc* and General Manager of NVBR-FM which is operated by Cornell '
Radio Guild.
MR, RULE*# I ' m Matthew Role, I ' m the Chief Operator of NVBR^ I '
live at 9716 Warren Drive in Lansing^ '
`
MR, KURTZMAN*+ Okay, What we are applying for , I think is pretty ^
clearly stated in our application^ What we are looking to do is '
install what is known as a translator on the roof of the Nest ^
^
Hill School which is at 111 Chestnut Street, And, for those of .
you who are not familiar with what a translator does, is receive .
our signal as broadcasted from our main transmitter which is lo- .
cated on Hungerford Hill which is near East Hill Plaza, and .
it rebroadcasts it at another frequency. We have received Feder- .
al Communications Commission approval to install the translator
only at this site and we have chosen this site because, from a .
technical standpoint it is ideal for a translator location and
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 41
additionally, the property that we are potting it on is owned by
the Ithaca City School District who agreed to allow os to pot it
there in exchange for some radio equipment and this would really
cot down on our costs, Being a non-profit organization we are
cutting costs as much as we can in potting this project together ,
it was really a necessary step* I brought with me copies of what
the actual structure looks like. This also was included in the
application, but I thought I would bring it along. Actually I
think I ' ve got one for everyone.
SECRETARY HOARD*# Is this the same as you submitted with the
Appeal? .
MR. KURTZMAN** This is the same as the drawings in the applica- .
tion^ As you can tell , by the drawings that we enclosed, the .
structure is very small - it is under ten feet tall ^ It really .
doesn ' t look any more obvious - well , maybe a little more than a
flag pole, but certainly - I guess the best way to describe it is .
like a television antenna. It is really not an eyesore and we .
hope to be putting it in an area like this, we really didn ' t want
to pot it where it would disturb any of the residents - it would-
n ' t be an eyesore . Where we had planned to pot it is recessed on
'
the roof of the school so that it really can ' t be seen from most
'
vantage points around the school , So it really isn ' t an eyesore .
' to the people that live there and we really could use the device �
to reach areas in Ithaca that aren ' t able to pick up our radio
station^ It ' s a project that we have been working on for years
and we are hoping to finally see it come to fruition.
^
`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE.' 42
MR^ SCHAAB*# You say nobody could see it, what about the Pfann ' s .
`
on 206 Chestnut Street? .
^
MR, KURTZMAN*+ I have spoken with Mrs* Pfann and I believe that .
she is one of the only residents that will see the device and I .
spoke to her and she was very concerned about it decreasing the
value of her property, she was very afraid that when she looked .
out her bedroom window every morning, it was going to be right in '
front of her . One of the things I tried to make really clear to
her was that it really is no more obvious than a television an-
tenna, it is really - I don ' t really see it being a tremendous ,
eyesore, I mean, her opinion is certainly very valid but I don ' t ^
,
really think that - I don ' t think it is going to be as terrible '
^
as she is anticipating* In fact I don ' t think it is going to '
look bad at all * '
MS* JOHNSON; When you recess this antenna, what do you mean by "
that? You said a recessed on the roof??? ^
MR, KURTZMAN** Dh, I mean, if we had put it on the edge of the '
roof - it could be seen, if you were standing right in front of '
the school , it would be standing right there at the edge of the
roof and everybody would see it* What Matthew designed where the '
^
antenna is going op - it is being pot in the middle of the roof
so if you are standing on any side of the school , you could only .
see the very top of the antenna, you can ' t see the whole support-
ing structure or anything of that - that ' s why it is not an eye- .
. .
sore^ We did that on purpose* .
MS, FARRELL'* So the part people would see is just this little .
�
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 43
bit op here? '
MR, KURTZMAN� I think Matthew could answer that better than I '
can^ '
MR, RULE� Nell , it depends on the vantage point - you would see '
a certain amount of it but you probably would not see the base, '
Jost in the interest of clarification, if you look at the dia-
gram, this is not specifically in the center of the roof , it is '
off to one side - that was our reason for using this type of de- '
siSn to begin with, rather than having something attached to the `
building itself , This is a free-standing design, '
^
MS. FARRELL� So it is right at the back of the building on the
right hand side. .
MR, RULE** Right. .
"
MR^ NEAVER� So the technical reason (unintelligible) stairway or .
- I ' m thinking of this lady looking out her window - from that .
vantage point - is there a technical reason why it shouldn ' t be .
^
near (unintelligible) in other words if she can always see the .
`
chimney then she can see this as well ^ .
MR. RULE� I ' m not exactly sore what her vantage point is - that .
is something I would like to check on, frankly, I don ' t know '
whether we are going to be directly in her line of sight or off
to the side, or whether it wouldn ' t be a factor at all .
MS, JOHNSON� You are potting the antenna right in the middle, '
there, is that right? '
MR. RULE� No that would be over on^ ^ , '
MS, JOHNSON� Where it says mast * *
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 44
MR. RULE'4 Yes, on the right hand corner ^ There are two antennas
involved, one is the mast mounted unity which would be mounted
some ten feet above the height of the roof - now that is in the
mast position. The other one is a smaller antenna which would be
mounted very low, right next to the stairway. The smaller
receiving antenna is not a critical situation at all . The mast
mounted antenna is,
MS. JOHNSON++ This building has a very large addition on the end
that is the gymnasium. Is that shown here?
MB^ RULE*+ I believe this is over top of the gymnasium*
MS~ JOHNSON*# So, oh, I see, so you are putting it on the top of
the gymnasium corner?
MR, RULE*4 My understanding is that it is over the gymnasium but
that is word of mouthy I ' m not exactly sore what is underneath
that corner *
' MR, NEAVER#+ Did you do a survey on this? If you look at that
^
building from down on Elm Street (unintelligible) the upper line.
. MR, RULE+# Elm Street is the. . *
' MR, WEAVER'* The hill you come op to get out of ^ ^ ^ ^
MR, RULE* So you would be coming around this corner of the
building is that correct?
MR, NEAVER+* I ' m talking about the street behind the school that
. has access to the street going op the hill . Is this the front
. line - the east line of the building?
MR, RULE'+ That would be on this corner here, this would be - say
the front of the building - with the driveway in front of it, and
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 45 `
^
the parking lot on the left hand side,
MR, HEAVER'* What we are yakking about is that this is an "L" '
shape building not a (unintelligible) `
MR. RULE'+ Okay, I ^ ^ ^ ^
MR^ NEAVER*+ Right under your forefinger there, before you get to
the driveway - the addition sticks oot^ ^ ^ '
MR, RULE'+ I see what you mean. No this would not be over the '
gymnasium, it would be on the far corner ^ Jost to clarify your ^
`
point sir , the reason for wanting to mount the antenna on this '
far side, we have it quickly spelled out here - a chimney mount '
was originally envisioned, The problem with that is, there is a '
grove of trees right here and the nature of the low power FM .
signal is such that a great deal of the signal (unintelligible) '
if not most of it, would be lost in the trees when the leaves are .
out, And, being on the right hand side of the building here, we .
'
are free from that obstroction^ ^
^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAM++ Gentlemen, we ' ve been considering your applica-
tion in a little different light within the Zoning Ordinance it-
self under Section 30^26 there are very specific guidelines for .
the submission of Special Permit applications for towers or
`
structures for the transmission or receipt of electronic communi-
cation signals, so let me just spell out some of them so that you .
can understand - it is not that we are for or against granting -
`
`
it is merely to clarify . I ' m going to skip Section A and 8o on .
. .
' to Section B "Applicant shall furnish the Board of Zoning Appeals .
. .
' with scaled drawings of the proposal including as a minimum, a `
. .
. .
-
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*+ 46
plot plan of the premises involved, showing lot lines and the
accurate locations of all buildings or structures on the premises
and on each adjacent lot, as well as the locations of the propos-
ed tower and all goy wires, poles or anchors" and things of that
sort, so while you have begun to do some of that, and there is
more - more specifically under D. "Before hearing the appeal ,
this Board most have written response on the proposal from a ma-
jority of those notified by the appellant as required in the pro-
cedures set forth in Section 30^58, This response as well as
that expressed at the public hearing, should be a principal fac-
tor in the Board ' s decision to grant the special permit^ " So I .
guess what I am saying is, that at this point you ' ve got a little
bit more homework to do and at this point I can explain this to
the Board, if you would like to double check me, I would be more '
than happy to invite that, but I would suggest that we defer
judgement on this case and continue it until next month when at '
such time you can submit the other material , Does this propose a '
hardship? '
MR, KURTZMAN++ Yes, that is what I wanted to explain, When we
' went to Peter Dieterich, the Assistant Building Commissioner , he '
. .
outlined all of the things that I had to do in going ahead with '
this and I was under the impression that everything we submitted
' was sufficient with the reSolations ^ The real hardship that
' faces os is that the Station has already - for os - a very major
financial commitment in buying the equipment, the actual antenna
' and the major hardship that really faces os if this was delayed
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*+ 47
is that we have been granted approval by the FCC to construct
this device^ That approval expired on July 31st and we currently
have an extension of that approval pending with the Commission,
�
which we don ' t anticipate having any trouble getting that
granted, and, in fact, we are permitted to pot it op before they
even process that extension - that only gives os another sixty
days to get the device op. If we were unable to Set this device
op in that period of time, there is a good chance that we could
�
forfeit our chance of putting this op and that could present a
more long term financial complication for our radio station be-
cause we really need this device so that more people can receive
our station, which, you know, eventually leads to more listeners
and more people buying commercials and it might be able to help
os Set through our financial hardship*
MR^ SCHNAB*# How long does it take to pot it op, install it?
. MR^ RULE'+ We are looking at three weeks, perhaps a month* Three .
^
. weeks is a reasonable estimate.
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ To install the unity the antenna?
^
.
MR. RULE'+ Yes^ There is a fair amount of extra work that has to
' be done here, electrical power has to be installed in the school ,
' to the area where the actual transmitting device is going and
, there is a certain amount of work involved^ Does that seem like
an unreasonable time period?
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ It seems unreasonable to me but I don ' t know
' what is involved, so you will have to explain more specifically.
' Let me come back and be clear about the sixty days running from
^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 48
when, where is the clock, essentially, ticking from?
`
MR^ KURTZMAN*+ If we get the approval for this extension, we will '
^
have two months from July 31st, so basically we will have until '
^
the end of September to pot this op. The nature of our organiza-
tion - if you are not familiar with it - is that it is staffed .
ninety percent by predominantly college student volunteers, most- .
ly from Cornell and the summertime is really the time to get this ^
~
done, for us. If this is pot off until school is in session
again, we are going to have a lot of trouble, you know, people .
start getting involved with their school work at Cornell and some .
of our staff is from Ithaca College - it is going to be really .
difficult to get manpower together from the staff to help in the `
"
construction of this, Summertime when people are free, it would ^
make things a hundred times easier if we could do it now. And I '
really didn ' t want to take a chance with that FCC deadline be- '
caose if we lose this frequency, there is a very strong possibil-
ity that another radio station in Elmira will grab it op and will '
^
bring another radio station into the Ithaca market, which is al- '
ready too crowded~
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'4 Further questions from members of the Board?
MR, HEAVER'+ Yes^ I don ' t know anything about this except that
I ' m concerned that before I approve that it doesn ' t present some '
^
sort of a blot on the West Hill view and it would be most helpful ^
^
to this Board to have some idea as to whether someone looking ^
down on it - whether there is anything beyond that, whether it is
^
looking into the hill or into the trees or whether , in fact, it
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE* 49
is op where it might be between someone ' s west window and the
view of State Street, for example. And it seems to me that the '
character of this - could be moved without any great stress.
MR. KURTZMAN*# One thing related to that, the whole design of it,
we are very free to play with it a bit and move it about the
building - you know - pot it in a place where it doesn ' t disturb
anybody - doesn ' t ruin their view, the only restriction that we
have is that it most be pot on the Hest Hill School because that
is where we are approved for by the FCC* `
'
MR, NEAVER*+ Well there is a lot of roof. . * '
MS, JOHNSON*# But it also has to be away from that grove of '
`
trees^ .
MR, KURTZMAN'* Yes* .
MS. FARRELL** But it seems like there are some places that you
/
could move it on the roof that woold, ^ ^~ `
MR, RULE'+ That would be less noticeable? Presumably there would .
' be^ I haven ' t gone to these folks hoose and seen exactly what .
. �
' their view would be. There is certainly a good chance that there
would be a better place. There is not a better site as far as we
`
^ are concerned, for coverage, bot^ ^ .
(changed tape here and missed some of the discussion)
MR. KURTZMAN*# . , ^ was like I was - to answer anybody ' s concerns,
I was trying to stress that we were being very flexible about
where we pot it and Mrs . Pfann was the only person who responded
at all , so I really don ' t anticipate where we pot it to be a
problem*
'
`
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 50 '
MS. JOHNSON; Nell , actually, I live in that neighborhood and she '
is the only person who would be affected, as far as I could see. '
MR. NEAVER'+ Her fears might be unfounded but I am not ^ , , .
MS, JOHNSON** That ' s the only hoose and above their hoose, on the .
hill , is nothing. ^
MR. WEAVER** As a former resident of Hook Place, I am familiar `
with it.
MS* JOHNSON'+ So that is really the only hoose that would have a .
view over the school roof^ .
MR* RULE'# That was one of the main reasons for picking this '
,
site, besides that it is very good from a technical standpoint, `
we felt that the impact on the community would be very minimal * '
`
MS^ FARRELL'* Do you have the pipes already pot together or `
^
anything so that you could take a picture of it and show the '
,
Board what it is going to look like? '
MR. RULE*4 No, the stand itself - a large part of it would be '
built op on the roof^ '
MS^ JOHNSON*+ But it would be less than ten feet tall? '
MR. KURTZMAN'# Yes, '
MS. JOHNSON'* And it is a two inch pole? '
MR, WEAVER44 What is the cross piece - is that also two inches in
diameter? '
MR. RULE** That is the antenna on the top - that is less than two '
inches - I ' m not sore exactly what the spec is on it, I would '
guess about an inch* .
. .
'
MR, KURTZMAN'* That is what we are trying to get across, is that '
. .
'
^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 51 .
all the piping, all the equipment is very thin - it is not very '
noticeable, ^ ^ ^
^
MS. JOHNSON'# Is that one piece of one inch - across there? `
MR. RULE** No this is a horizontal type antenna which is ^
approximately four feet by six feet, it resembles a TV type '
^
antenna, '
^
MS. JOHNSON'+ So it is like a grill? `
MR* RULE'* There is a single piece with five cross pieces -
mounted horizontally^ '
`
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+f Further questions? Thank you gentlemen. Is `
there anyone else out there who would like to speak in favor of ^
granting this special permit? (no one) Is there anyone who would ^
^
like to speak in opposition to granting the permit? (no one) ^
That being the case, it is ours * ^
. .
. .
^ "
.
.
. /
'
^
`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE� 52
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO * 1641 111 CHESTNUT STREET '
MR. SCHNAB� I ' m concerned because the Zoning seems to spell out '
/
very specific things the applicants should do which they haven ' t '
done, It seems to me that they are essentially putting the '
burden on the applicant to show that no one is really affected, .
/
rather than the other way around - having the opposition come ,
forward, '
MS. JOHNSON� Even though it pots a bit of a time crimp in their .
`
plans, I think that I would feel more comfortable if I had a `
^
sense of how it looked, and exactly where it was on that ^
boildin8^ `
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� So what you are saying is that the application '
be more folly developed? '
`
'
MS. JOHNSON� I would like to see that, although I can see that '
"
' it is a bit of a hardship. It doesn ' t sound impossible^ '
�
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Thoughts from the other side of the table? `
�
' MR, HEAVER� I ' m not prepared to approve it, based upon the '
. .
' information supplied, I don ' t think - we don' t have enough '
�
information in front of os to make that decision. It looks like '
/
a simple bar and it turns out to be four by six^ I don ' t know
what the top elevation is relative to the neighbors. .
MS^ FARRELL� It would be nice to see some sort of drawing where
you saw how much was recessed and how much still stood above
that*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Do I have a motion to defer or would you like
to 8o simply on the merits of denying for the moment?
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE: 53
MS. JOHNSON: Can we just make a motion to refer it without
asking him first if they are interested in that or . . . .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well we certainly can. We could ask them
anyway. What is your pleasure?
MR. WEAVER: Is there a motion on the floor?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'. Not yet. But there is about to be.
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE44 54
DECISION ON APPEAL NO, 1641 111 CHESTNUT STREET
MS^ JOHNSON** I move that the Board defer action on appeal number
1641 until the Board receives adequate drawings of
the proposed tower antenna to be placed at the Nest
Hill School and until the Board receives the
information that the neighbors have been surveyed
as required in Section 30^26 of the Zoning
Ordinance. After these stipulations have been
fulfilled to the satisfaction of this Board a
decision will be made,
MR^ SCHWAB*. I second the motion.
VOTE4# 5 AYE VOTES
�
`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*+ 55
MORE DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO, 1641
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*# I thought what I would do is ask the Appellant
to come forward once again, just to, , . .
MR, SCHNAB*+ My one thought, a nice thing, similar to the old '
Coop thing that we had - just that someone could get on the roof '
with even a broomstick, or just something so that someone could
take a picture from this front yard - would be very helpful .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*# Will the appellant come forward please? You ' ve '
heard our *chewing" on this - there seems to be a good deal of
`
several reservations, I ' d like to make for you at this point, and '
rather than vote and cause it to fail by virtue of lack of '
information, we ' d like to see you come back next month, if that ' s '
/
possible and that is still within your sixty days.
MR^ KURTZMAN'* Yes, if we get the approval . Is there any way '
'
where I could Set more specific information, exactly what you '
.
would like, to present at that meeting? Because, quite honestly, '
. `
. I was led to believe that everything that we brought to this .
^ .
,
meeting - our application - was sofficient^ If I knew that
. there had to be more done, we would have ^ ^ ^
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+' All right, Let me suggest that even - perhaps
if you ' d like - even before you leave tonight - you obtain a copy
' of Section 30 ^26 and read it very closely - it is very explicit
' -it says specifically a minimum of a plot plan and things of this
' sort and from that - if you have any questions - simply call the
Building Commissioner ' s office and have Tom explain more specifi-
cally^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE! 56
MR^ KURTZMAN� If we submit all of these materials, all we have
to do is submit them before next month ' s meeting and, , .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ That ' s right - and come before os, assuming
they are complete at that point, we ' ll judge it on its merits at
that point,
MR. KURTZMAN� Okay, and I should anticipate that that meeting
will be in approximately one month from tonight?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ As I understand it, tentatively we have
scheduled it for the third of September ,
MR^ KURTZMAN� Okay, that sounds okay^
MR. SCHNAB� And if you heard what I said about - you know -
think about getting someone on the roof for the picture because I
think. ^ ^
MR^ RULE� I think that is a wise idea*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Regularly with sign ordinances we do this^
MR. SCHNAB� Someone should get as close to the thing that you ' ve
Sot, holding it op~
MR^ RULE� To the approximate height that it would So,
MR, SCHNAB� Exactly.
MS^ JOHNSON� So we can see what it looks like,
MR^ SCHWAB** So we can see if it is a big deal or not*
MR, WEAVER** I agree that from the ground, grade at the building,
that it would be difficult to see it. I am more concerned about
whether the neighbors can see it and whether they wish to see it^
MR. KURTZMAN� Okay,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Thank yoo^
' -- - - ' -- --^�-' - --- ----- —
. BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE.' 57
VOICE FROM THE AUDIENCE� Mr . Chairman, can I make a question
from the floor please?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Yes,
VOICE** If the appellant for 1636 does not show op tonight, will
the people who are here in opposition to that case be able to be
heard?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAM*+ No, to pot it in short , ^ ^
VOICE: It doesn ' t say democratic affair . . .
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s right.
VOICE� You ' ve advertised both ways to both parties^ , ^
'
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Nell , yes. * .
VOICE'* The Planning Board did hear the case even though the
appellant - (unintelligible) several cases to think aboot^ He ' ll
come back in two months and try to wear these people down and
that is not right,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� We ' ve seen this in cases in the past. It ' s not
as though we are unaware of the situation, if we can think about
general sitoations, ^ .
VOICE� Why does the Planning Board have one set of roles and you
have a different set? (unintelligible) people here,
SECRETARY HOARD� There is no appeal until he presents it - until
the appellant presents it there, * ,
VOICE'* I understand that . The same thing happened at the
Planning Board, he did not show op and the Planning Board heard '
the opposition to the case. '
MR ^ WEAVER'* Well that ' s their bosiness^ I would think it was '
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 58
' rather silly for them to listen to a non-appeal .
'
(unintelligible)
. VOICE** I understand that. The opposition should be heard,
' people have postponed their vacation for a day, it is not right*
. MR^ HEAVER** It is the business of this Board to hear as many
appeals and to dispose of them in a timely fashion as possible
and these roles have been essentially intact for many, many
years, it is not just a current idiosyncrasy of this group to
. decide and I agree that it is pretty exasperating . ^ ^
VOICE*# (unintelligible) shows op then you will hear his case,
^ is that correct?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ That ' s correct, yes, essentially. But let ' s
^
. ost, I don ' t want to make this, in a sense, evolve it in any
^ kind of federal case or large concern^ ^ ,
VOICE'4 (unintelligible)
'
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ That ' s what I want to bring op. Essentially we
^ are here to hear the cases and you have to bear with os - because
' the procedure is very much before os as well . We have dozens of
' people over the course of the year that are coming op, and one
' way or the other don ' t show op, or promise to or whatever , I
^
' mean, there is just a myriad of cases of this kind. We
understand your side of the story and your concern - just bear
' with os if you can.
^
- -------
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*, 59
SECRETARY HOARD** The next appeal is APPEAL NO, 1642 120 SOUTH
FULTON STREET**
Appeal of Ithaca Agway Cooperative for an area vari-
ance for deficient setbacks for the front and rear
yards, under Section 30,25, Columns 11 and 14 of the
Zoning Ordinance, to permit the removal of an exist-
ing woodframe warehouse and replacement with a new
single-story noncombustible storage building at 120
South Fulton Street (Agway Cooperative) . The prop-
erty is located in an I-1 (Industrial ) Use District
in which the proposed use is permitted; however on-
der Sections 30^49 and 30^57 the appellant most ob-
tain an area variance for the listed deficiencies
before a building permit or Certificate of Occupancy
can be issued for the new constroction^
MR. WHEELER** I ' M Mark Wheeler , I ' m an attorney and I ' m with
Treman and Clynes office of Harris Beach on Seneca Street here in
' Ithaca^ With me is Roger Ambrose who is head of the construction
design department at Agway, out of Syracuse, and also I have Mark
^ Giles who is store manager at the facility which this appeal per-
tains to. By way of background, a copy of the design drawings
. which reflects the survey of the property has been submitted with
the application for a variance* We are requesting a variance
from the front and rear setback requirements^ The front setback
.
requirement is twenty feet and if you will note" the lot is very
unique in that it is extremely narrow. In total feet from front
^
to rear it is approximately seventy-one feet roughly, seventy-one
. or seventy-two feet. The proposal is for an addition which, for
the most part replaces an existing stroctore^ It will be approx-
imately twenty feet greater in length with that additional twenty
feet is not the (unintelligible) impact on the setback reqoire-
ments^ It will maintain the same rear setback requirement which
'
,
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 60
is thirteen feet at present. On the front it will be brought
' forward so that the line of the new addition conforms with the
existing front line of the main portion of the building and that
would require a variance of eighteen inches because it would
bring it to eighteen and one-half feet from the front property
line^ I have here - I will pass around two photographs of the
existing warehouse. One is from the front and one is from the
rear ^ You ' ll note in the photographs that this warehouse is not
' very attractive - and Mr . Ambrose and Mr * Giles will be able to
testify that it is not a very useful structure at the present
time ^ By way of background, the impetus for the construction
' plans (unintelligible) in part over a period of time and in part
doe to the concerns for fire and safety at that warehouse. The
warehouse itself is a wooden structure and it is currently non-
conforming under the fire codes. It is approximately sixty feet
in length and it is about forty years old^ Mr . Ambrose has been
in contact with representatives of the Ithaca Fire Department in
an effort to determine what changes would be beneficial to bring
the addition op to code~ Among the changes that were discussed,
and which have been incorporated in the plans are the followin8++
' there would be a masonry fire wall between the new addition and
the existing structure and in what is the southeast corner there
would be a special room for the storage of agricultural , chemical
'
products . This is of particular concern to representatives of
' the Fire Department that they be located in an area that was
' known, that was on ground floor , that had a special storage tank '
. .
'--- --- — --- ---- -----' - ---------'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE* 61
available so that in the event of a problem they could deal with
it in an easier fashion, Maybe, Roger , if you could give a brief
outline from the design, engineering standpoint,
MR. AMBROSE� This is the back of the lot line. This is the
front of the building, south edge of the front (pointing to the
diagram) . The existing structure back line is across here, the
existing back line of the structure we wish to remove is the same
line here - the existing structure on this side of the fire wall
is our mixing power - structural steel legs - reinforced concrete
to bring in the feed material and things of this sort. The only
access we have from our existing facility, which was originally
designed this way - with the warehouse years ago in this area
-went right through here along the back wall . Wherefore we
elected in functional design, for a facility to operate - to keep
the building on the back line and that is what we did do^ The
front of the building - we lined op with the front of the exist-
ing structure which is basically forty feet using a pre-engineer-
ed metal building which is cost effective construction today on a
reinforced concrete foundation. This building - with a fire sep-
aration of two hours and with a proper fire door that is control- '
led electronically from heat and smoke, satisfies current Build-
ing Code of the State of New York and also your City of Ithaca. ^
Therefore with (unintelligible) honest project, we pot this to- ^
8ether in this fashion. Now we ' ve raised the floor of this boil- ^
din8 to match the existing building because we have a space con- .
^
sideration^ If we were to pot the building at a lower elevation, '
^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 62
down where some of the other ones are, we ' d have to come in here
with a ramp and it takes op too much room so, in keeping the
building as small as we possibly can, we ' ve raised it, therefore
otherwise we ' d have to go op - farther out to the south* Now
pre-engineered metal buildings are cost effective, like I said,
they come in twenty foot modules - you can ' t make them, you know,
like you would a stick building or a block structure, therefore ,
. they come in a twenty foot modules and they come basically ten
. foot widths and if you make a deviation from that then it is not
. cost effective, it becomes a special boilding. We have used
. these in many of our commercial applications along with Agway
. facilities, which is our entire commercial area presently, The
. chemical - aSri-chemical storage area is right here and that is
at the front of the building where the Fire Department would
like to see it - they know where it is at* Basically this mater-
ial now is stored in the other part of the building in Lipper lev-
. els - where we pot boxes and cans and bottles - it is not good
. for the Fire Department - they don' t know where it ' s at, it is
hard to get to and they want it in one area^ We subscribe to
. this, we do this wherever we do remodelling of existing facili-
ties. We keep these things in an area where - if something were
' to happen, they know where its at. They know where they are 3o-
' .
in8 into. And it is fire proofed -fire protected, two hour wall
' and two hour ceiling* Mr * Wheeler , he spoke of a drain tank, or '
something of this sort, well this is what we worked out with EPA '
and the Environmental people, We depressed the floor somewhat '
^
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 63
about this much and in case we have a spill in there - we spill a
gallon can of material , it has to be cleaned op and the EPA tells
os that we most be responsible for the environment and if we
spill it, we most be able to capture it and keep it from getting
into the environment and that is what this holding tank is for ,
`
it will not get into the environment, As you know there is a
creek back here and things of this sort - the risk is high, so
'
you have to be responsible in your design to cover these risks.
'
We don ' t ever want to have to pomp the tank out, but just in case
'
' it happens. The existing scale is out in front here - the dot-
' ted line - and the scale hoose is being incorporated into the
'
existing structure - it is not moving around, we are just moving
'
out toward it and that^ ^ ^
^ MR. NHEELER� From the picture you can see this scale hoose, it
^
'
actually protrudes from the warehouse and when the front line of
' the proposed addition is brought along the same line as the main
^
.
existing structure it would enclose the scale house.
. MS. JOHNSON; Not the scale but the scale hoose?
.
MR. WHEELER'* That is correct .
. MR. AMBROSE� Right. Where you read the dials and the pomp comes
on and things of that sort. Now as you can see by that
^
.
particular picture there, that back wall , that is a
^
. non-conforming wooden structure, it is an illegal structure, Fire
Department would love to have it disappear * We can ' t have it �
. disappear until we get a space back to operate on and you can ' t
. - years ago you could build it like that but today you can ' t, it
.
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE4. 64
. is a non-conforming wood structure in a fire zone that is
Class A, which that area is,
'
MR. NHEELER*# I want to point out some of the economic impacts
' that this new warehouse would have on the store and this is more
' in Mr , Giles' area of familiarity but one of the main things is
' the agricultural/chemical is basically without a secure storage
' area - they would be unable to continue to do business and they
have annual sales that approach six figures in this area and they
also have a warehouse storage handling fee because they sell , not
only retail level but they also warehouse to sell to other
^
stores, So you are talking significant dollar volume of sales
' here in order to maintain, not only competitiveness but in order
to maintain operation in this line of business. In addition,
another large component of the inventory that would be required
to be stored in this warehouse includes minerals and I think,
' Mark, the figure you gave me was twelve hundred and fifty-five
tons on an annual basis . Without warehouse storage capability
-and it is true in any business, depending on your product, you ' -
ve got to have the warehouse capability to support the product,
otherwise you can ' t torn it around and you can ' t sell it. For
this particular type of product you realize a savings of twenty
dollars a ton if you boy - I ' m sorry - twenty dollars per twenty
ton load?
' MR. CILES'* Twenty dollars per ton. '
MR, AHEELER'# Twenty dollars per ton, savings, if you boy in a '
^
twenty ton load. Four hundred dollars may not seem like a lot, '
. BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE. 65
'
you know, in itself, but what that savings does do, is it enables
you to maintain competitive so that your customers are going to
come in and boy their minerals from you and trickle down will
affect the other products as well ^ Mr . Ambrose pointed out the
fact that the only access is in the back of the building and the
reason for that is because of the existing bin and storage dock .
This is the area where agricultural food product is manufactured
. and there is actually a system of chutes and there is a truck
. area here where the product is loaded. There is no possible way
. to Set from the existing facility to the warehouse except by go-
ing through this area in the back here, which is going to result
in the back line being on the existing line of 13b^ In addition
they are experiencing other problems with the current warehoose,
they are experiencing not only depth problems but they are also
experiencing problems with loss of inventory simply doe to damage
from the elements in this structure which is not only failing to
protect the product adequately but is actually is quite unsafe as
' well . In order for the Company to continue to do business, not
' only the minerals and also with the agricultural chemicals, a new
'
warehouse is absolutely essential , certainly more than economi-
cally siSnificant. I just want to quickly - to sum op here - go
through what I feel are some of the important factors that should
be considered here and address how I feel this plan meets those
'
factors, I think the first question is how substantial is the '
variance, what is the request? As I have noted, eighteen inches '
in the front, which I feel is relatively insubstantial , except '
- - '--- --- - - - -
^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 66
for this dock area, it is thirteen feet in the rear - this dock
' area which I ' m not sore, I think it would be considered a struc-
ture under the Zoning Ordinance and therefore the variance would
'
actually also for the twenty foot width of the dock, it would
' come within five feet of the dock line there. I do have a pic-
ture which I will pass around, which shows the back line of the
property and it is really showing this southwest corner right
. here, of the existing warehouser which is shown in your diagram
as the dotted line of the existing stroctore^ It gives a good
`
. representation of what is behind this building and I think it
. demonstrates graphically that a variance for the rear setback is
. not going to produce a harmful affect on the neighborhood, I
. think you also, in some cases want to be concerned with the ef-
fect on Municipal facilities when you grant a variance^ Here, as
we ' ve explained, the effect would be, if anything, beneficial -at
. least from a fire protection standpoint and safety standpoint* I
think - this is in an industrial zone, I think that the change in
,
. the character of the neighborhood, or whatever - I think it is
clear from a picture of the photograph and these plans and the
.
drawings and the thought that has gone in to this ninety thousand
^ -
dollar pro �ect, I think that it shows that it will be a benefi-
cial change from the character of the neighborhood, For the en-
gineering reasons that we ' ve laid out herer there really isn ' t a
^
viable alternative to get the space that is required and I think,
as far as the way that the problem developed here, it is just one
' of those cases where you do have a non-conforming structure and �
. .
. .
^
. �
' BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE4# 67
^
^ �
it ' s time for it to be rebuilt and modernized.
^ CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# Any questions from members of the Board? What
'
you are saying then is, essentially, if I can try to do a quick
and dirty sommarization. The back wall is pretty much a given by
^
virtue of the fact that you have a certain internal circulation
' problem^ The front wall is, in a sense, a given by virtue of .
. �
incorporating the existing mechanism that sticks out there - that
' steel hoose. . . �
'
MR. NHEELER'+ Three things on the front wall , the other thing is �
. �
' the fact that, because of the prefabricated construction* * *
'
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*f So that you can have a direct module that you
' have to deal with. * * * �
'
MR* NHEELER'+ Deal with, yes, and the cost is approximately �
' ninety thousand dollars and Mr . Ambrose tells me that it would
approximately be an additional fifty percent, if you want a |
�
^
' thirty-nine foot building instead of a forty foot wide boilding^
'
Because you wouldn ' t be able to go prefab,
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# So the overall form and scale of the new
proposal or the new building, is essentially as close as you
could come to what had been on the lot prior or what is on the
lot now?
MR. AHEELER++ Yes. The additional room to the south, which does
not impact on the setback requirements is made necessary because |
. of the liquid storage area,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** Further questions? Thank you Sentlemen^ Is
there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 68
granting of this variance? (no one) Is there anyone who would
like to speak in opposition to granting this variance? (no one)
That being the caser do I hear a motion?
' - ---- --- ----- ' ----- ---
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 69
DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1642 120 SOUTH FULTON STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Agway, Inc.
for an area variance to permit the removal of an existing
woodframe warehouse and replacement with a new single-story
noncombustible storage building at 120 South Fulton Street^ The
decision of the Board was as follows*.
MR, SCHWAB** I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1642 ^
MR, HEAVER*# I second the motion^
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT4.
' 1 ) In rebuilding this nonconforming structure there would be
^ improved safety and fire protection.
2) The character of the neighborhood is industrial and this
would be in keeping with, and would improve the general
character of the neighborhood.
' 3) Practical difficulty is that the prefabricated building
comes in 10 x 20 foot dimensions so scaling the building
to other than these dimensions would be extremely costly.
4) The proposed building would be close to the present
^
building and would not substantially increase the
deficiencies ,
VDTE*+ 5 YES; O NO; 1 ABSENT VARIANCE GRANTED
' |
. �
`
. .
. "
,
^
. .
-
' BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE.' 70
'
' SECRETARY HOARD** The next appeal is APPEAL NO* 1643 FOR 324-26
' DRYDEN ROAD',
`
' Appeal of James R. Orcott, D^D,S^ for a use vari-
ance under Section 30^25, Column 2, and an area
' variance for deficient lot size and setbacks for
' the front yard and one side yard under Section
' 30^25, Columns 6, 11 , and 12 of the Zoning Ordi-
nance to permit conversion of the building at 324
Dryden Road from a 920 square feet dental office
and two apartments, to a 1250 square feet dental
' office and three apartments. The property is lo-
cated in an R2a (Residential-two-family dwellings)
Use District in which the proposed uses as a den-
tal office and multiple dwelling are not permitted
.
uses (the existing dental office is "grandfather-
ed" , but expansion is not) . Therefore, under See-
tions 30^49 and 30^57 the appellant most obtain a
.
use variance and an area variance for the listed
. area deficiencies before a building permit or Cer-
tificate of Occupancy can be issued for the pro-
posed conversion,
. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Gentlemen, please begin with identification,
.
DR* ORCUTT4' I' m Dr ^ James Orcott, I ' m the dentist in question
here. Statistics show that fifty percent of the elderly do not
, avail themselves to dental services because of physical struc-
tures they cannot, or have much trouble in sormoontin8^ My
of-fice, unfortunately, is such a place. I have numerous steps, a
small waiting room with no room for a wheelchair * Point in fact,
after considerable effort of getting a person into my present
'
. office, there is no room for them, It is as if they are on dis-
play, Trying then to Set them into the dental chair is the next
^ prodoction^ The hallways and entrance into the operatories are
. too small plus there is not enough room to store the wheelchair
. or walker once the patient gets into the operatory^ The patient
' has to use the bathroom and it is physically impossible to Set a
. �
. �
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 71
wheelchair into the room without disassembling it, It would be
easier if we could disassemble the patient also. Dealing with
any person over one hundred and fifty pounds, or more likely two
hundred pounds, who has little or no body strength or control ,
presents ludicrous problems, Once some of these people start to
lean or fall , it is next to impossible to right them, which hap-
pens frequently. I have already had a dental assistant sprain an
ankle trying to help a large elderly person. Ask any of the good
people who drive the Gadabout bus what it is like to Set the,
so-called ambulatory patients they drive in and out any of the
dental offices in Tompkins County and you will find that they
will have a consistent answer and it is very difficult because
there are no dental offices in Tompkins County that are handicap-
ped accessible^ We take very good care of the property and
grounds, in point of fact, I personally feel it is the best look-
ing and best cared for property in the area. I strongly feel
that I am proposing a true constructive improvement that will , in
fact, enhance the Colle8etown area^ I feel it would be unfair if '
I am made a scapegoat for mistakes in the housing development in '
the Collegetown area* I do not want to deny dental services to '
our handicapped and to our elderly. I believe that I am the only
`
dentist in the entire County that has done my homework to re- '
search and design and develop a state of the art facility that '
^
will make visiting a dentist a normal procedure versos the ^
^
degrading and somewhat humiliating experience it is for them ^
now^ If I could just take a minute, hopefully none of you will
. BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 72
. never have to deal with any of these devices, but I brought with
me today two things that I have to deal with quite frequently*
. First is very obvious, the wheelchair , and I would invite any of
you, or all of you for that matter , to sit in one of these and
' wheel around with it, the kids do it, they think it is fon. But
then try, without the use of your legs, to park this thing and
just t into l chair t the bathroom* D f
. Jos 8e n o a norma c a r or 8o o e a room^ o any o
the things that you consider to be normal and try doing it out of
one of these, it is next to impossible^ I tried it myself and I
realized that in my hoose it is probably one of the worst things
' in the world because you can ' t even get into the bathroom with it
"
which could create obvious problems^ Secondly is the walker ^ I
don ' t know if you are very familiar with these or not but I don ' t
know if what happens a lot of our elderly people are people that
have had a stroke, they are stroke victims, primarily the elderly
will have these things, broken legs, broken hips and what happens
' is they try to hobble into an office and, unfortunately I have
steps and I have a lot of steps and I have narrow sidewalks,
these are things that before I came into practice, I didn ' t real-
ize existed - these things were non-existent - we only worked on
healthy, smiling children and adults who were glad to see yoo^
Unfortunately that is not the sitoation^ So what you really have
are people that are very, very heavy, oftentimes, and usually `
act- '
oally, I should say , they have to support themselves almost en- ^
tirely on these things and they take very small steps and what ^
,
^
_
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE*+ 73
they will do, is they will slide this thing forward, then try to
support themself again and slide themselves forward. Again, I
invite you all to just try doing that and just try walking twenty
feet, much less op steps or getting out of a car or into a dental
office or any of the normal things that you consider to be nor-
`
mal , it is next to impossible to deal with. And as I said in my
' written statement the problem that I have is so typical of all
. the offices. The doorways that we have are very, very narrow^
It is very hard for a large person, as I mentioned before, that
has very little control of their body, to manipulate themselves
. into - out of - any of the operatories that we have in the exist-
ing stroctore ^ We have what I feel to be state of the art dental
equipment, but it is unfortunate if we can ' t get the patient
there to use it for them, With me today is Dave Tauber who is
. the architect, who is helping design this and I think he has a
' statement also^
' MR^ TAUBE+f I ' m David Tauber HOLT Architects, The addition that
we are showing, and this will help address some of the issues, is
' located at the corner of Elmwood and Dryden, it is the pink area
' as shown there, with regard to, specifically, the use variance
^
^ portion of this appeal . We are trying to indicate the fact that
^
' the existing condition of the doctor ' s office is unique, at
least, in that area. As you can see, the green represents all
' the multiple dwelling structures" the blue are duplex and the tan
' are single family^ I ' d like to point out, although I haven ' t
. �
` noticed the individual here, the owners I believe of the tan �
/
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE,* 74
structure were present at the Planning Board and issued a state-
ment praising Dr . Orcott ' s care of the property and had absolute-
ly no problem, in fact, encouraged the addition^ We feel that is
a fairly important point with respect to what is going on within
that entire area^ The second drawing indicates primarily the
problems we have with the area variance ^ Under the existing con-
ditions that we have - there are presently two lots and the one
lot is located approximately here (pointing to the drawing) and
the other lot adjacent to it. The existing structure is already
beyond or too close to the west property line. It is also
slightly closer , as you can see, to the south property line
-front yard and with the existing property, the east boundary
again, the east yard is deficient. With the combination of the
lots and putting the addition on in this location, we actually
eliminate, of courser the east deficiency and would meet, then,
the new east yard requirement, which would also be front yard for
a corner lot* The addition itself is located there and is still
outlined here, maintains all the new requirements for that addi-
tion so that the only area problems that we would still have
would be the two, the one on the east and the one to the south*
' The combined square footage of the two lots is slightly smaller
than required as stated, that is twelve thousand square feet and
' with the combined lots is eleven thousand some odd, eleven thou-
sand four hundred so there is approximately a five percent defi-
ciency with regards to that^ At present there is kind of a hodge !
' pod8e of parking along Elmwood. The asphalt from Elmwood goes '
. .
,
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE4. 75 ^
clearly op into the parking area and able to park approximately
^
five cars. There is secondary parking north of the structure, '
^
again off Elmwood, back to a point, where there is parking for '
two cars^ What we are showing as part of the addition, is to ^
relandscape what is already, I think, very clearly a beautiful
'
landscaped area; provide two handicapped parking spaces off Elm-
woody which would reduce the visual impact there - where it is
most evident and we would bring in additional cars to the north '
of the structure for parking, both for the apartments and for the
dental practice ^ We have actually shown one more car than is
required by zoning for the apartments as well as the addition, I .
can pass this one out so that you can get the view of the photo- .
8raphs, that the proposed structure is still actually smaller .
'
than all the structures around - most of the structures are two .
and one-half to three story structures, woodframe, This would, .
^
in effect, as far as the gable height, be a one and one-half ^
story structure. It is slightly larger than the existing build-
ing which has been described as a cottage style and a cape struc-
ture, It is extremely low in profile, The floor plan for this '
structure shows the handicapped access from the south into the '
^
entry waiting room and the same number of exam rooms and facili-
ties as presently exist in the existing dental practice* Primary '
difference here is accessibility around and that ' s very impor-
tantly not just handicapped accessibility but as the photographs '
will show, the quarters are incredibly ti8ht. Actually you have '
`
to 8o through one exam room to get to another , which really does- '
`
,
`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 76
n ' t work for a dental practice^ The hardship that Dr , Orcott
faces, and we actually wrestled with it in examining the various
alternatives for group offices, is most simply the fact that
�
within the given structure it is impossible to renovate and still
maintain a practice. The amount of time that the doctor ' s prac-
tice would be closed for any renovation that would be needed to
pot the practice into the type of modern facility that it com-
mands, would be way beyond the Doctor ' s ability to handle that as
well as all patients that he serves during that period of time*
We are certainly looking at , probably, a four or five month reno-
vation period, at least. The notion then was to provide the '
space in the adjacent quarters, in that small addition, and then '
we showed a small two-bedroom apartment directly above that. The '
existing apartment on the second floor will remain precisely as `
is, there was a one-bedroom apartment on the first floor which '
would now simply become a two-bedroom apartment^ We believe that '
the design and certainly the request is well within the spirit of '
the Ordinance and character is in keeping with the neighborhood, '
It would not further impact the neighborhood whatsoever and by
the comments of the neighbors, again, would probably do nothing '
but improve what is already existing. '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+# Any questions from members of the Board?
MR^ NEAVER*+ Maybe it is in the material but the square footage .
^
of the dental office as it is proposed and the square footage of .
. .
the dental office that is existing? .
`
MR, TAUBE'# The existing I believe is nine hundred and `
^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 77
' twenty-five, or possibly nine hundred and fifty - nine hundred
and twenty is the existing the new square footage would be twelve
hundred and fifty .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Dr , Orcott would you address the questions of
the dollars and cents investment in this particular project
. vis-a-vis other alternatives, and I think we have to wait for the
change in our tape.
DR, ORCUTT'4 Actually the only other alternative that I have
.
would be to stay where I am, I am in very cramped quarters* Or
find another dental office elsewhere which to me seems ludicrous
because then we are going to be - if I moved out of the area,
. which is essential at this point because I have a number of pa-
tients that live within the area, I am also accessible to Cornell
University and I have the only dental office in the area, it has
been there for over twenty-five years^ I ' ve been there for fif-
teen of those years, I cannot afford to build another office �
elsewhere, if I need to leave the area where I am, I think I am '
well received by the people who live in the area, I formerly did '
live in the area myself, hope to move back there when my kids '
grow op and I no longer need a large hoose^ I think I provide a '
very important service to the residents of the area^ '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ What is the estimated cost of the improvement '
to the properties? ^
DR, ORCUTT+* It will probably be in excess of one hundred `
`
thousand dollars^ '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ How much of that one hundred thousand dollars '
------- --- -- --- -- ---- ---------
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE4. 78
would you estimate, or would Mr , Taube estimate, goes to
handicapped access in any way?
DR, ORCUTT*4 How much of it?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ If for example, the variance were denied, and
one were to 3o in and do handicapped access for the building as
it stands, how much would it cost? Do you have any ideas?
MR, TAUBE*+ For the existing structure?
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'O That ' s right^
MR^ TAUBE++ That would be hard to say because really, we would
still have to Sot the entire structure and make it handicapped
accessible, there are not corridors as such in this space, you
actually 8o from exam room to exam room - there is a little lab-
. oratory in the middle of the space and then there is a short cor-
ridor from the waiting room to two exam rooms^ The toilet facil-
ity is probably a third the size required for handicapped access-
ibility^ Literally, the interior partition would not - you could
. probably leave a couple and then have to work around - but the
` space itself is not at all adaptable as is, without gutting it.
This was the primary problem that we had to address with the Doc-
tor when he presented it, was the inability to take what is there
and try and renovate it and at the same time maintain a practice
- it just would not be possible.
DR^ ORCUTT+* Even if we could gut the building it is interesting .
that you mention that because there is a stairwell that goes .
right through the middle of the existing boilding^ We share the
stairs that go upstairs to the apartment upstairs, and the stairs '
`
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE'o 79
that 8o downstairs to the basement, so in order to facilitate the
existing building, you ' d literally have to move - for the handi-
capped, you ' d have to somehow reposition those stairs* The best
thing you could do with that building would be to light a match
' to it and start over ,
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*f Further questions from members of the Board?
MR. NEAVER*+ Doctor , I ' ve heard you talk about the desirability
of handicapped access and having a residential location for a
' dental office^ You are aware that the City just got through
changing the Zoning Ordinance to discourage - to not allow
' medical offices in residential neighborhoods?
' DR, ORCUTT'+ Yes, as I am aware of, but I ' ve also been there for
fifteen years and, as I said before, I think I provide a major
service for the area,
'
MR. WEAVER'* In trying to support a hardship or extension of this
'
non-conforming use, do a number of handicapped persons - are they
' now clients of yours?
DR. ORCUTT'+ Yes^
^ MR^ WEAVER** Can you tell me approximately how many?
'
DR* ORCUTT*+ I would say that probably five percent of my prac-
tice right now would be handicapped, I face some unique prob-
lems^ I have a gal that, when she was small , a little girl , she
`
. had Spinal Bifida, The problem that she has, and she grew, I
'
.
used to be able to carry her literally in my arms and pot her in
my dental chair , right now, even though I consider myself physi-
cally fit, I can no longer do that. She is strictly bound to a
�
'
. BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE', 80
. wheelchair and with time has grown, which is understandable, she
now probably about sixteen, and you cannot move her , And I don ' t
want to jeopardize the health of my employees and I don ' t think
that that would be fair plus with the existing steps, if an acci-
dent did occur , now I am endangering not only my employees but
the patient as well , trying to lift them op the three steps per-
haps you can see in these pictures here, to get them into the
office. I would cordially invite all of you to see the existing
office, the way it is. It was built a number of years ago and
unfortunately, like many things, it was built without careful
planning but I don ' t think that many of os were aware of the
problems that we were going to see in the future. I feel very
badly that I cannot treat some of the people. I know that the
^ facilities that they have at the nursing homes are very inade-
quate and as I had mentioned in my statement here, if you see the
,
people that do come there with Gadabout , it is very hard to get
' these people in. The good people that drive these are also not
' strong, physically, that can help a number of these people in*
' These people are ambulatory but for all practical purposes they
aren ' t ambulatory, they have a great deal of trouble moving
about* And that is one of the nice things about Cadaboot. I am
on the bus route, which I think is very nice, a number of people
can get to me that way, whereas they couldn ' t if I were in the
' northeast area or elsewhere.
` MS^ FARRELL*4 Do you have any estimation as to how many people
`
you have to torn away because you are not accessible?
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE.' 81
' DR, ORCUTT4* I have no idea, I can ' t tell yoo^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Further questions? Thank you Sents^ Is there
anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the granting of
this variance? If you would step forward please. Nell , roll
forward. That' s all ri3ht^
MR, FELLONS*# My name is Stephen Fellows, 641 Snyder Hill Road
. and for the last dozen years I have worked as a disabled advo-
. cate, as a disabled self-advocate, with the Homan Rights Commis-
sion and an advocate for the disabled* Dr ^ Orcott ' s plans are -
. well they shouldn ' t be - phenomenally new and different^ At this
,
. point I 8o to a dentist in this area and I can Set in his door
^
,
without a great deal of assistance but I can ' t get in alone and
once inside, if I have my shoe horn along and am willing to take
my foot rest off I can actually get into a chair and that is just
about the most accessible office I have found. I was reading a
'
newspaper in the back of the room - while you considered other
' cases tonight and I was reading once again about how the rebels
in Af8anistan have essentially nothing in the way of medical help
for them^ And after I spent some time meditating on that I
thought" gee, disabled people have very little medical help in a
society that prides itself on its medicine, on its health care*
I talked to literally hundreds of people every year who are dis-
abled, or whose children are disabled, or whose parents are dis-
abled, and I hear time after time, do you know where I can find a
doctor ' s office that is accessible? Do you know where I can find '
a physical therapist that is accessible? Do you know where I can '
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE*+ 82
find a dentist that is accessible? As far as the need for what
Dr ^ Orcott wants to do, it is there^ If he does it, that five
percent he talked about is going to get greater . As far as his
not moving out of the area, he lives in an area where people are
used to going, they know where it is, it is a calm, quiet neigh-
borhood, no one, including very elderly people, is going to feel
that it ' s dangerous there, they feel uneasy, I don ' t like the
neighborhood and in that sense, I would really hate to see him
' move that office and I most admit that I have" many times, driven
' past Dr ^ Orcott ' s office, thinking as usual about access, looking
' at his little hoose upon the hill and thinking rather snide and
cynical thoughts and when I heard through Advocates for the Han-
dicapped what he wanted to do, I was thrilled to death. I can ' t
. tell you people what to do with the Zoning law and what to do
with the variance, and I can ' t really tell you anything that you
haven ' t heard before* All I can do is plead with you - in fact,
. I will grovel , if someone will pick me op off the floor after-
. wards, to see this happen and to see it stay where it is so that
. the people who are used to going therer who need him and who have
`
. come to accept a dentist who is at least sensitive to their
needs^ These people need that and more people need it, And I
can ' t say anything else to you, I cannot give you any calm argu-
ments in this community, I can ' t 8o to any sort of past exper-
ience, I can ' t say you did it last year for Doctor So and So, .
that is the shame of this community, is Doctor So and So doesn' t .
/
exist^ That is all I ' m going to say to you because I don ' t think
`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 83
I can help him any more^ Thank you very moch^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# Are there any questions from members of the
Board? Thank yoo^ Is there anyone else who would like to speak
in favor of this variance? Step forward please,
MS. ORCUTT '+ My name is Diane Orcott and obviously I am Dr . Or-
cott ' s wife, but I am also a Dental Hygienist employed in his
office full time* I have been employed in his office full time
for two years, but prior to that I worked in at least six other
dental offices in Ithaca, What Mr ^ Fellows said is truer based
on my experience there is not another dental office where the
handicapped can be taken care of properly, where they are not
left to stick out with the imposition that they feel that they
are on display. It ' s not possible to pot a number on the number
of people or on the people that would come to our office - we are
not interested in building our practice - our practice is just
about all we can handle right now but the point is, we have been
in practice for fifteen years and the nature of our practice is
changing. We are getting more older people and the older people
that we have that are able to get around have elderly parents
because, as you know, the elderly are living longer , and there is
just no way for os to tell - or to pot a number on the number of
people who would like to bring their elderly parents to us*
There are all kinds of parents that are located in Oak Hill and
Lakeside and we hear it all the time, "Will you come op and see
my mother?" Well fine, we can 8o op and see her but there is
just very little we can do for her there, there is no decent por-
--------`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 84
table dental equipment to use once we get there, We can simply
look at the person and say "yes, you have a problem. ' I had a
situation occur , I, as a Dental Hygienist, am not a very good
nurse and when asked to take care of someone who is handicapped I
don ' t often know the proper way so, we had an elderly woman come
into the office, one of our patient ' s mothers came in with a wal-
ker . Because our bathroom is not handicapped accessible, I had
to assist her in the bathroom, which - because she was with a
walker and not in a wheelchair , if we had the facilities she
could have been spared that embarrassment of a total stranger
helping her in the bathroom^ I had to take her walker away, she
is a woman at least my height, I am five foot ten, and at least
two hundred pounds. At which time I took her walker away, she was
totally helpless and assumed that I was going to drop her , I knew
that. She clung to me and I tried to get her in position to use
the bathroom* Not really understanding her handicap, I didn ' t
' realize that she could only Set down so far over the commode^ I
' asked her to try to get down closer and she said "I cannot get
' down any closer and I am going to So^ " The only thing that I
could hope for at that point is that I had the lady centered over
' the toilet, which I didn ' t know because I couldn ' t see around
her ^ So these are all problems that I didn ' t have any idea that
existed, until I ' m starting now to care for these people , As I
say, having been in at least six other dental offices in Tompkins
' County, there are just no other facilities. Thank yoo^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# Any questions from members of the Board? Thank
— - -------
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 85
you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor?
Please come forward^
MR* RIDER*# My name is Jim Rider and I have a building - one
building behind his - it ' s a big building, we ' ve got sixty park-
ing spaces there. I can understand the gentleman in the wheel-
chair because twenty years ago I had a accident and I was in a
wheelchair for a month, you can ' t appreciate it unless you are in
that wheelchair , you just can ' t get anyplace^ It either has to
be real wide or almost level . And as far as space, to me it
looks like he ' s got a lot of space here for his building. As far '
as quietness or noise or anything, it ' s a nine to five place when
I go to the dentist I just sneak in real quiet and after be does
the job I just sneak out, so there is no noise, to me* As far as
- I don ' t know how you goys do it - and as far as parking, I 8o
by there every day because my building is right around the corner
. there and there is always spaces there, and if there isn ' t enough
' space, I' ve got sixty spaces, he can have some of them, And as
'
' far as I am concerned there is enough apartments and beer joints
' op on that hill ? I think a dentist office that is accessible to
^
' the handicapped, to me would be a lot more feasible^
^ CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Any questions from members of the Board? Thank
you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of
granting this variance? (no one) Is there anyone who would like
' to speak in opposition to granting this variance? (no one) That
^
' being the case, it is ours ,
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 86 .
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO. 1643 324-26 DRYDEN ROAD .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'o Discussion?
MS, JOHNSON'+ I suppose Jon Meigs was concerned about the future '
of this property and the non-conforming - the big increase ^ ^ ^ .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Well as it states in the minutest it was '
because he thought the proposed project would substantially
increase the non-conformity of the property, ^ ^ an increase of '
`
site- related traffic would cause further congestion* Is this '
the place for a handicapped accessible facility? Is this the `
instant? '
MR. SCHNAB'+ Well the difficulty with it, of course, is '
^
non-conforming use grandfathered in. It seems to be doing all `
right now (unintelligible) if the variance were expanded* I ^
`
gather the purpose of grandfathering is to tolerate and hope they '
are a good neighbor while they are there and hope it goes to '
another use* .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# In general it has been our practice to get a '
^
better fix on the relative financial difference when granting a .
^
.
use variance as opposed to not and I guess I ' d like to hear some-
' one address that question as well as the question of handicapped .
'
accessibility. I have a little difficulty in general with the '
' concept that handicapped accessibility shooldr in a sense, be pot
' forward as the rational for the expansion in a use variance -
area variance I get a little bit - that to me isn ' t as much a
concern but certainly with a use variance, I am a little concern-
ed and particularly - as Mr . Weaver has pointed out - the notion
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*+ 87
of what Council has done more recently - I ' m just looking at that
awfully hard - the question of exactly whether in fact dental
office should be expanded in these sorts of residential areas,
MR^ NEAVER++ If you would like to hear , I feel obliged to treat
the Council ' s recent action to limit additional medical facili-
ties in residential neighborhoods throughout the City and whether
or not there is handicapped access, nowhere is there any sugges-
tion that that' s a license to ignore the strictures and the di-
rections of the Zoning Ordinance, If this were not expanding the
user if the scale of the proposed use of the facility were more
approximately equal to the existing facility, it would seem to
/
be a trade beneficial ^ . # the fact that it is going op from
ninety to twelve fifty approximately , ^ ^
MR^ SCHNAB*+ Although on your point, I recall testimony as to the
number of examining rooms which was probably a critical factor '
because the size of the practice was not going to chan8e^ .
' Is that enough to^ ^ ^
' MR. NEAVER'+ Nell , in other words saying that never mind the
'
square footage, the number of operating rooms, if you will , will
not be increased, Whose hardship is this?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ That ' s the question.
MR, SCHNAB++ It certainly isn ' t the typical case because the
applicant is not saying he can ' t make a living or can ' t
'
economically use the property^ As far as your question, I think
the finances are sort of irrelevant, he is not claiming to make
more money the new way, he probably won ' t^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 88
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# Well my point then comes back to the test for a
use variance. If, in fact, this is a concern, or isn ' t a con-
cern, it certainly doesn ' t meet those tests^ To what degree, to
come back to, I ' ll argue the other side to what Charlie was say-
ing, if we can say for a moment, that handicapped accessibility
requires - to do a good facility - requires an increase from nine
hundred and twenty square feet to twelve hundred and fifty square
feet* Do the finances not make a difference? Is there any hard-
ship essentially? Or can you trade the hardship off, so to
speak, with the increase in square footage?
MR, WEAVER'* The only hardship I can see is that the present fa-
cility is too tight, too small , inadequate to continue the prac-
tice. And if the owner has the right to conduct a professional
office at that location, it would seem, per se, that he has the
right to have an adequate facility * If he wanted to move three
other doctors in with him and do a real deal , I ' d be here to say
' that that was unreasonable and was really stretching the hardship
' beyond my ability to believe it* Fundamentally, though, the pro-
perty owner has the right to enjoy his property subject to the
' limitations of the local ordinance and if he can ' t enjoy the use
' as has been granted by a previous variance, for a dental office,
what constituted a dental office then, as we see it today, is the
T that I would hang on to as saying he has a right to expand (un-
intelligible) this degree in order to have a minimum acceptable
' facility by today ' s standards. But I realize that is a tortured
path^ ^ ^ ^
---- — -
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 89
MS^ FARRELL'# I see somewhat of a hardship that just not being
able to treat a certain number of clients that are already there,
that would then be turned away. I do have a question. Is it
true that you aren ' t going to be increasing the number of examin-
ing rooms?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*f Would you come forward and speak into the
microphone?
MS, FARRELL'# So you don ' t see increasing the number of examining
rooms? What about the number of people working?
DR, ORCUTT*+ Presently there is myself, two hygienists and a sec-
retary and an assistant. It is not entirely impossible that I
won ' t bring an associate in at a future date. At one time there
were three dentists in this office and it was super crowded^ It
was at the point of being totally lodicroos^ But getting back to
this, there is - the structure, the way it is now is impossible,
^ nearly impossible to bring a handicapped person into it, without
. him feeling like a fifth wheel ^ It is too small . As I said be-
' fore, I ' d be more than welcome to bring all of you individually
or as a group, into the office and show you, first hand, what we
are dealing with, There are no dental facilities at the Tompkins
County Hospital . There are (unintelligible) to cover all the
dental emergencies from the hospital - they are referred oot^ If
somebody is handicapped - I don ' t know how we would treat them, I
have no idea what we would do with them, we have no dental facil-
ities whatsoever at the hospital , aside from extractions or some-
thing like that which could be arranSed^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 90 .
'
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN't Thank you. .
MS, FARRELL** I have one other question* So what you are talking .
about, you are talking about you are increasing your space for
the offices by about a third*
DR* ORCUTT*9 I am increasing the hallways - if you look at- what
is actually being increased in size, are the width of the opera- '
tories are increasing a foot, the doorways are increasing by over '
a foot, the restroom is going to become completely handicapped '
accessible and the entrance would become handicapped accessible '
along with the parking lot and the sidewalks to the office^ But /
the actual amount of space that we are using is technically the '
same^ It is like playing cards on a large table or a small table '
but if you have people that can ' t get to the table then they are '
not going to play cards with yoo^ '
MR* SCHNAB*+ Would you consider bringing in an associate at your
. .
present location?
. DR^ ORCUTTI# I had one until two years ago, yes, and I would
' .
. consider doing that again* It is very difficult when you 8o away '
`
` to not have somebody at your office. I do cover for a number of .
.
. other offices and they reciprocate but there are some hardships
' that are involved in not having an associate there.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'4 What ' s the relative payoff financially between
two apartments and three apartments? You have presently nine
`
hundred twenty square feet and two apartments and you are going
to twelve hundred and fifty square feet and three apartments^
DR, ORCUTT*+ Frankly I don ' t know, I can ' t answer that question
'
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 91
because it really wasn ' t a consideration, The only reason that
we are putting the other apartment in there is that it will help
keep the building looking oniform. I think it will look a lot
better with a two-story addition than if you just pot a flat roof
there - it would look terrible otherwise. But the apartment that
I have on the first floor is very, very small . Actually the ten-
ant who rents it has been there for six years actually has a fold
op bed that ' s a couch - it - really what it is, it ' s a bathroom,
a dining room, a kitchen and a living room which is also the bed- �
room^ It is very small * So it would be a matter of just taking
a wall out to expand it so you would actually have a bedroom
there*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAM*+ Further questions? Tracy? Thanks, Further
discussion or do you have a motion?
'
MR. NEAVER4# I would like to make a motion, .
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE*. 92
DECISION ON APPEAL NO* 1643 324-26 DRYDEN ROAD
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of Dr , James R.
Orcott for use and area variances to permit conversion of the
building at 324 Dryden Road from a nine hundred and twenty square
feet dental office and two apartments, to a twelve hundred fifty
square feet dental office and three apartments. The decision of
the Board was as follows'+
MR, WEAVER*. I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1643^
MS* FARRELL** I second the motion.
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT*�
1 ) The proposed construction will not exacerbate the existing
front and side yard deficiencies^
2) The percentage of the original lot area and the newly created
lot area, the lot area deficiency will not be sobstantial ^
' 3) The corner lot and the existing structure would not be
^
amenable to correction in that it would require the
' demolition of part of the building or relocation on the lot.
' 4) The area deficiency would not be increased by any substantial
^ percentage in that the combination of two lots are involved
here^
MR, WEAVER** Also, I move that the Board grant the use
variance requested in appeal number 1643,
MS, FARRELL*+ I second the motion^
PROPOSED FINDING OF FACT*4
1 ) This finding is based upon the understanding that continued
--- --- --- ---- -------
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE44 93
practice in the existing facility has been described by the
applicant as extremely difficult and also it requires a very
difficult situation for part of the appellant ' s practice to
gain access to the property entirely, so on a positive note
the proposal would provide a community facility that is
handicapped accessible^ The hardship would be a hardship
imposed upon the owner to continue a practice allowed by a
former variance and handicapped accessibility is not possible
within the original nine hundred twenty square feet,
VOTE** 4 YES; 1 NO; 1 ABSENT VARIANCES GRANTED
/
/
`
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE� 94
FURTHER DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO* 1643 WHICH TOOK PLACE AFTER THE
MOTION WAS MADE AND SECONDED BUT BEFORE THE VOTE*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� I ' m going to vote against this motion. I ' m
sympathetic to everything that Mr ^ Weaver has pot forward and I ' m
sympathetic to the proposal as a whole? I think the architect has
done a reasonable job of potting together a scheme and I think
the dentist has thought through some of the questions but I am
still bothered, in a sense, by the lack of comparative figures
for the use variance in demonstrating that there is an economic
hardship of any kind and I feel that without this, and without
really seriously looking at this, we are somewhat amiss if we
were to grant, and that is where I stand,
MR. NEAVER� I ' d like to reiterate that specific economic
hardship versos an inability to enjoy the use of the property as
currently existing for constructive practice is the basis of my
' finding a hardship*
^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� That ' s perfectly fine. I' m just asking for
.
quantification.
,
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 95 '
APPEAL NO. 1644 618 NEST STATE STREET '
"
SECRETARY HOARD'# The last appeal is appeal number 1644, 618 Nest '
State Street*+
Appeal of N O B Supply Corporation for an area vari-
ance for deficient off-street parking, excessive lot '
coverage, and deficient setback for one sideyard,
under Section 30~25, Columns 4, 10, and 13 of the
Zoning Ordinance, to permit an addition to the front
of the commercial building at 618 Nest State Street '
(N 8 B Supply) . The property is located in a B2a '
(Business) Use District in which the existing use is '
permitted; however under Sections 30^49 and 30^57 '
the appellant most first obtain an area variance for '
the listed deficiencies before a building permit or `
Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the pro- .
posed addition. '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'f Nelcome^ Begin with your identification, .
`
MR^ BENJAMIN*4 My name is Hoyt Benjamin, I' m the owner of A & B ,
Supply Corporation^ I ' ve been here before several times and I ' ve .
come back to you with what I think is a significantly altered ^
,
plan that we have pretty much designed around the previous objec-
tions. So what we are proposing to do is still on the facade, to .
`
extend it forward six point four feet and the width of the build-
ing approximately thirty-seven point five feet, this is about .
`
twelve and one-half less than what we were going to do previous-
ly. We are going to be doing some building back into the old .
building, which I will show you when we get to the plan. Pre- .
' sently the main floor of the showroom is used for commercial sop- '
plies and offices. The offices use approximately three hundred '
and seventy square feet of potential showroom space. The show- '
room selling space at present is approximately eleven hundred .
square feet. The addition, with the second floor offices, would
^
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 96 '
allow os needed office space of an additional seventy square feet '
but our biggest advantage would be an increase of approximately
six hundred square feet of selling space or a fifty-five percent .
increase. The use of the building would remain the same, signs .
would remain the same or be upgraded, There is a lot of planning .
that has not been done on this project because of oor previous .
torn downs the architect and the people of the Community Develop-
ment that are helping os with the project have said, let them '
pass it and then we will draw it. So I couldn ' t get very detail-
ed drawings for your okay? And that is why. Visibility would be
approved with the new facade being equally visible with the boil-
dings on either side^ The new plan violates the Zoning Ordinance '
in that it leaves the building deficient by four parking spaces* '
In parenthesis I pot a condition which already exists. It vio-
lates a small side yard requirement only on one side of the buil-
ding now, as opposed to both sides and only by about six foot of
'
width* Now that violation was created by the Laborer ' s being
^
granted a variance to build op against me so that it ' s not com-
pletely on my side, That condition exists for approximately -
' well it exists the length of the Laborer ' s building which is
'
about fifty feet presently. So we are only asking for another
six feet ^ And then the final thing is that we are violating our
lot coverage and percentage we are allowed is fifty percent lot
coverage^ I think we are asking for fifty-one point six so we
are not asking for a big area now, which we were asking for a
significant increase before, There are some new faces here that
^ '
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE*. 97
didn ' t see the old plans or hear the old arguments . I hadn' t '
counted on that but basically we are in an old commercial build-
ing on Nest State Street and we had asked to use the front yard '
and the alley of our lot for additional show room and office '
'
space. It was the feeling of the Board, and I ' m going to 8o over
the objections that were raised by the Board, point by point, '
`
from the last hearing because I think we ' ve addressed all the '
concerns and that was our point in coming back - it was not that '
we just came back with a little bit change of plan, but a com-
pletely new and well thought out plan^ So I ' ll get right in to
that^ You all have copies of the plan? I left nine copies, I '
^
think, with the Building Department^ Is it evident from the .
^
copies of the plan what we are proposing to do? If you will torn ^
^
to the second to last page, what we want to do is pot on a new .
front on this boildin8^ The old front has not been very attrac-
tive for years, we upgraded it about eight years ago when we took ,
possession of the building, by potting vinyl siding on it which ^
^
is also not very attractive^ And the building is set back quite .
' ^
far from the rest of the buildings on the street. So what we are .
looking to do primarily and part of the reason that this project '
.
got started was because Community Development came to B 8 W Sop-
ply and asked os if we would consider borrowing the money from
the City at a low interest rate and reconstruct the front of the
building and become part of the Community to develop the Nest
State Street, which is what started our interest, At that point
we began looking for ways so that we could do something with the
�---- ------
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE44 98
front of the boildin84 Our first plan was probably self-serving
in that all that we were doing was just adding showroom and wrap-
ping it around to get the most square footaSe^ I think we got
the message in that just adding square footage - a ground cover-
ager was not what the Board wanted to see. So we ' ve gone back to
try and address doing more with the facade and trying to make
better use of what space we have, That brought os to this plan
which asks for six foot of the front yard which is still - this
doesn ' t violate any zoning ordinance, just the front yard moving
out the distance^ What violates is the area - is the side where
it is next to the Laborer ' s and the parking spaces^ I don ' t
think there is much difference between what I have for parking
spaces and what this addition would mean,
�
MS, FARRELL*# I have a qoestion^ On the side yard deficiency,
does it change the deficiency, or the deficiency is there
already?
.
MR* BENJAMIN'# The deficiency is there already but because the
Laborer ' s Temple is along - let me do it so everybody can see it
' - the Laborer ' s Temple exists along here and my property line
- my building was built right on the property line, I ' m like one
point seven feet away from the property line - therefore by
.
continuing this addition out six foot I am - am I explaining this
right?
MS. FARRELL� Yes.
MR. BENJAMIN� I would have had to bring the addition over to not
be in violation of that side yard^ Somehow it would lose all of
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE'. 99
the symmetry of the building and everything that everybody that
came down - the architects and everybody wanted to do - with mak-
ing it look attractive again^ So they didn ' t seem to think -as '
long as we weren ' t using this whole side yard, which we had plan-
ned to before, that this wouldn ' t be that great an infringement '
on the area variance. I ' d like to move into the objections that
were raised previoosly ^ The first objection, this is from the '
letter that I received from Mr . Hoard, turning me down. The '
first objection was to the use of the side yards. And that was '
strictly because I was building - my interpretation was that it '
because I was using the entire alley between myself and Hour '
Agency for new offices and show room space - that the Board felt '
that that was excessive* The second point also objected to the .
deletion of that side yard^ Again, I ' m not going to use that .
' anymore - that seemed to be the big objection and that ' s what I .
' tried to cot out of my new plan* Then they asked for dollars and .
' cents proof that a difficulty exists or is being imposed by exis-
ting reqoirements^ Well giving an exact dollar and cents figure
' is very difficult because it is a perception of lack of business
'
generated by our lack of show room space and our lack of
visibil-ity, a lack of ability to display inventory in space that we own
because of the construction of the building. We took an informal
'
survey of our customers and we found that seventy eight out of
' ninety two that we asked, we kept a little sheet on the counter
and asked people as they came in, 8o by at least once without
'
finding the store when they were looking for it, Now if people
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE44 100
can drive by when they are looking for it, I ' m not getting much
of an exposure on the street where I should be ^ I mean, I pay
taxes just like everybody else op and down that street and I
should have the same amount of exposure. Other people have also
volunteered, when we were taking this, that they had driven by
our store for years before becoming our customer , without even
knowing we were there. We are obscore^ What that means in terms
of dollars I can speculate but would it do anybody any good?
Then number four , petitioner has alternatives and the suggestion
was made that I possibly should consider a different site. Going
into your own small business isn ' t easy and we managed to boy
that building and we own it and we are paying off a mortgage on
it and just getting rid of that one and moving on to another one
just isn ' t that easy - I mean, it costs a lot of money and we
wanted that building because we think it is an excellent loca-
tion, I have very little problem with it, except that nobody can
`
' see it and these other little problems that have been brought op
- the lack of show room space ^ We almost went broke in there a
couple of years ago when the economy was bad and we are trying to
' poll out of that now - we ' ve done pretty well in pulling out but
we feel that we need to stay in that building and pay it off and
' we would like to be a credit to the neighborhood there . So we
really don ' t think that there is any feasible way that we could
move from that location and into another building, this is not
something that is possible . Then they suggested that we build
higher at the same location, I think that is what we are asking
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE** 101
for now in the new plan, is to build that front op and make that '
look attractive^ It was suggested that we build back to another '
part of the existing block, I don ' t have any more land there -
'
there isn ' t really anywhere that I ' m not going to use excessive '
lot coverage - just - it doesn ' t work^ That wasn ' t a very good
sog8estion. And the other problem is that you have to take into '
consideration all the goals of wanting to do something '
- to build on this project. One of them is the goal of the City '
for an attractive Nest State Street. One of them is that we in- `
crease our show room space and make ourselves visible to the pub-
lic* Then I have some more that are (unintelligible) here^ The `
show room space most be within a reasonable reach of the side-
walk. If you build back on another part of the lot, it is not
going to help - you know - that wasn ' t a real good suggestion '
^
because you can ' t get to a show room that was in the back of the .
building,, So we thought we were addressing that by building on .
the front. Also building in another part of the building was not .
. .
practical because it is very hard to get customers in your store
. .
.
but once you get them in there it is even harder to get them to .
8o op two flights of stairs and down a corridor to a room in the .
' back unless you tell them that there is something back there .
really, to peak their interest, So enlarging the present show
' room is really what we are after and it is to help increase our
sales and to help with our visibility problem - it ' s to help with
the West State Street renovation, I think that is pretty much
-oh, six - they said that we were non-conforming in area and that
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 102
was their last point for turning os down the last time, we ' ve
diminished our request significantly from the last time we were
here by not using that alley^ I think we are only going over one
point six percent on the lot coverage. We were over about eight
or nine percent last time, a significant amoont^
MS, FARRELL** I have a qoestion^ Right now are you in excess of
lot coverage with your present building?
MR. BENJAMIN*+ No.
MS. FARRELL'+ Okay, so it is 'ost^ ^ ,
MR* BENJAMIN'+ The numbers are on^ ^ °
MR. WEAVER** We don ' t have a worksheet here with os but is it in '
the architect ' s, ^ , ^
MR, BENJAMIN'# Our existing lot coverage is twenty-nine five - we
' were forty-seven point eight percent and we are asking to 3o fif-
ty-one point six^ So in designing our new plan I sat down with '
' the architect and said we want to obviously vary from the Zoning '
Ordinance the least amount possible and still be able to enhance '
' the front of the building to the extent that Community Develop-
' ment still interested in loaning os the low interest money that
they came and offered to os^ Increase the size of the sales
force, although we can increase our sales we wanted to keep our
' offices within reach of the show room floor , which is an absolute
necessity because it is the office workers that also wait on the
customers and we ' ve come op with a plan that we feel stays within
`
reasonable limits and addresses all the problems that we had and
it is something that is a workable solution to what everybody
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE'� 103 .
didn ' t like before. That ' s pretty much my whole - I ' d also like '
to add that once again all my neighbors are in approval of this '
and I have a coople of letters. I didn ' t 8o around and solicit '
them all over again, I figured that you know already that they `
were in favor of building in the neighborhood and cleaning op the '
block so
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*t So we ' ve got some letters to be read? `
MS* FARRELL'# So this building would come right op to your lot '
^
line? '
^
MR, BENJAMIN*4 Where are we talking about, on the sidewalk^ ^ '
MR^ NEAVER*+ We are talking about the front^ ^ '
MS. FARRELL'# The front of the building. '
^
MR^ BENJAMIN� What it would do is be even with the Laborer ' s on `
' |
the one side and the Hour Agency on the other side. In other `
'
words, we are not asking for anything more than our neighbors '
have, we just want to be eqoal . I mean, actually there is noth-
ing in the zoning codes about - that is wrong with os going for-
ward - what the problem is is area and then that side yard on the
one short side there. And then a question of parking which is
not going to change anything or the addition is not going to
change our parking needs. Our parking needs are going to remain
the same and the spaces are going to remain the same, there is
not going to be any taken away by an addition, I can ' t park any-
where where I ' m building now, so I ' m not doing anything to de-
crease the parking.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN't Further questions? Thank you Mr * Benjamin, Is
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PAGE*# 104
'
there anyone else out there who would like to speak in support of
�
this appeal being granted? (no one) Is there anyone out there
who would like to speak in opposition to this appeal being '
.
granted? (no one) Tom do you want to read the letters? '
SECRETARY HOARD** I have two letters that Mr . Benjamin brought
. .
. in, one is from Terence Cullen, President of Robert Cullen
. Associates, Inc, , their business is in back of Mr ^ Benjamin ' s
business. "Board of Zoning Appeals, Dear Sir *4 As a neighbor of
. B 8 N Supply Company, we heartily approve of their plans to .
' improve their building at 618 Nest State Street^ It is well .
. .
done; will help our neighborhood and should be approved^
' Sincerely, /s/ Terence M. Cullen, President" And this is from
.
J. B^ Craves of Hour Agency "A note to let you know that as Mr .
' -
Ben �amin ' s next door neighbor - I support Appeal #1644 and
^
approve of his plan to improve the B 8 N Supply Building @ 618
' Nest State Street. Thank you* '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Very good*
MS* FARRELL*+ I ' m ready to make a motion.
BZA MINUTES 8/5/85 PACE** 105
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1644 618 NEST STATE STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Hoyt
Benjamin for an area variance to permit an addition to the front
of the commercial building at 618 Nest State Street^ The
decision of the Board was as follows*.
MS. FARRELL** I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1644^
MR* SCHAAB*# I second the motion,
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT*+
1 ) There is a practical difficulty in meeting the present side
yard deficiency which could only be solved by moving the
building or making it smaller ,
2) The proposed change only increases the present side yard
deficiency by a small six foot section and there appeared
to be difficulty in adding on to the front of the building
without increasing this deficiency,
3) The proposed change creates an excessive lot coverage by a
. very small amount or approximately one point six percent,
. 4) The proposed change would maintain the character of the
'
neighborhood and the building would line op with neighbors
on either side^
5) The present deficiency in parking would not be exacerbated^
VOTE4* 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT VARIANCE GRANTED
- 106 -
I , BARBARA RIJANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board of Zoning
Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of Appeals numbered 1634,
1636, 1637, 1638, 1639, 1640, 1641 , 1642, 1643 and 1644 on August 5, 1985
in the Common Council Chambers of City Hall , City of Ithaca, New York, that
I have transcribed same, and the foregoing is a true copy of the transcript
of the minutes of the meeting and the action taken of the Board of Zoning
Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York on the above date, and the whole thereof to
the best of my ability.
Barbara Ruane
Recording Secre/ary
Sworn to before me this
/O lt� day of 1985
'Notary Public
JEAN J. HANKINSON
NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF NEW YORK
No. 55-1660800
QUALIFIED IN TOMPKINS COUNTY
MY COMMISSION EXPIRES MARCH 30,19a 7