HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1985-07-08 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
CITY COURT
HALL OF JUSTICE
JULY 8, 1985
T-ARLE-OF _CONTENTS
Page
APPEAL NO. 1625 Richard Salerno & David Gersh 3
404-404j North Cayuga Street
" it It Discussion 36
" " " Decision 38
APPEAL NO. 1631 Michael LoPinto 40
304 Mitchell Street
" It
it Discussion 50
" " It Decision 53
APPEAL NO. 1632 Gloria Knuppenberg 55
315-17 N. Meadow St S 619 W. Court St.
Decision 69
APPEAL NO. 1633 John Bodine (Dick Wilsen Real Estate) 70
119 West Green Street
" It Discussion 78
" Decision 79
APPEAL NO. 1634 Carmen & Virginia Canestaro 80
145 Linn Street
" It " Discussion 92
" " " Decision to defer until next month 100
APPEAL NO. 1635 Peter J . Malison 101
421 N. Cayuga Street
" It Decision 103
CERTIFICATION OF RECORDING SECRETARY 104
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE� 1
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
CITY COURT
CITY OF ITHACA NEN YORK
JULY 89 1985
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� Good evening, I would like to call to order
the July 8, 1985 meeting of the City of Ithaca Board of Zoning
Appeals, The Board operates under the provision of the Ithaca
City Charter , the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, the Ithaca Sign Ordi-
nance and the Board ' s own Roles and Regulations* Members of the
Board who are present tonight inclode �
CHARLES WEAVER
MS. TRACY FARRELL
RICHARD BOOTH
STENART SCHWAB
MS. HELEN JOHNSON
MICHAEL TOMLAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD
THOMAS D. HOARD, BUILDING COMMISSIONER
8 SECRETARY TO THE BOARD
MS. BARBARA RUANE, RECORDING SECRETARY
The Board will hear each case in the order listed in the agendom ^
First we will hear from the appellant and ask that he or she pre-
sent the arguments for the case as succinctly as possible and
then be available to answer questions from the Board, He will
then hear from those interested parties who are in support of the
application, followed by those who are opposed to the applica-
tion. I should note here that the Board considers " interested
parties" to be persons who live or own property within two hun-
dred feet of the property in question, or who live or work within
two hundred feet of that property^ Thos, the Board will not hear
. testimony from persons who do not meet the definition of an in-
terested party. While we do not adhere to strict roles of evi-
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACEI* 2
`
dence, we do consider this a quasi-judicial proceeding and we .
base our decisions on the record. The record consists of the '
application materials filed with the Building Department - cor-
respondence related to the cases, received by the Building De- .
partment, the Planning and Development Board ' s findings and re- '
commendations, if any, and the record of tonight ' s hearin8^
Since a record is being made of this hearing, it is essential
that anyone who wants to be heard, come forward and speak direct-
ly into the microphone, which is right in front of os here, so
that the comments can be picked op by the tape recorder and if
you yell loud and long enough, I suppose everyone in the room '
will hear as well . You will have to make yourself a little bit
more expressive than normal by virtue of the fact that we don ' t '
have the PA system hooked op ^ Extraneous comments from the audi-
ence will not be recorded and will , therefore, not be considered .
by the Board in its deliberation on the case^ We ask that every- '
'
one limit their comments to the zoning issues of the case and not �
comment on aspects that are beyond the jurisdiction of this
Board, After everyone has been heard on a given case, the hear-
ing on that case will be closed and the Board will deliberate and
reach a decision . Once the hearing is closed, no further testi-
mony will be taken and the audience is requested to refrain from
commenting during deliberations. It takes four votes to approve
a motion to grant or deny a variance or special permit ^ In the
rare case where there is a tie vote the variance or special per-
mit is automatically denied. Are there any questions out there
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71ZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 3
about our procedure? Then we can proceed to our first case.
SECRETARY HOARD '* The first appeal Mr . Chairman is APPEAL NO .
1625 404-404^5 NORTH CAYUCA STREET
Appeal of Richard Salerno and David Gersh for a use
variance under Section 30^25, Column 2, and an area
variance for a deficient side yard setback under
Section 30^25, Column 13 of the Zoning Ordinance,
to permit use of the second floor of the structure
at 404-404 ^5 North Cayuga Street for a lawyer ' s
office, in addition to doctor ' s offices on the
first floor . The property is located in an R3a
(Residential , multiple dwelling) Use District in
which medical offices and lawyers offices are not
permitted oses. The medical offices were in place
before the Zoning Ordinance was amended to prohibit �
them, and are therefore 'grandfathered' . The law-
yer ' s office is not "grandfathered" , however , and
the appellants are appealing an April 3, 1985 order
from the Building Commissioner which ordered that
the illegal use of the premises for a lawyer ' s of-
fice cease and desist within thirty days. This
appeal was held over from the June 3, 1985 Board
meeting because the appellants failed to follow the
proper notice procedure prescribed by the Zoning
Ordinance .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# If you could begin by identifying yourself. �
�
DR, SALERNO*+ I am Richard Salerno^ �
�
MR* GERSH*+ I am David Gersh.
DR, SALERNO4+ I am a physician and I specialize in Otolaryngolo-
gy, which is ear , nose and throat^ I came to Ithaca in 1969 and
began practice of my specialty at the Professional Building op on
Tromansburg Road, In 1972 I purchased the building known as 404
North Cayuga, which is a beautiful torn of the century building
in the historic district. At the time I purchased it, it was
badly in need of repair and preservation. To pot it mildly, it
was a wreck. There was a shed attached to the building that was
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 4
falling down. There was a three car garage that barely had walls
and no windows. I paid thirty-two thousand dollars for this
building and over the next six months I pot approximately one
hundred thousand dollars into that building* I worked primarily
on the first floor of the building, I replaced all the walls and
ceilings and floors, put in new electrical and plumbing and pot
in a new sewer line to the street * I installed air conditioning,
I removed the falling down shed in the back and built a new wing
on the building in its place . I removed the garage and put in a
ten car parking lot, I also did extensive landscaping , At that
time there were two apartments on the second floor and these
apartments were subsequently rented to various students and young
adults and to, for a time, to one widow. I found that having
/
students on the second floor of my office building to be very
unsatisfactory and incompatible with the image that I wish to '
create for this beautiful building and for my new office prac- .
�
tice^ The students made it very difficult for me - they were
very noisy with their hi-fi ' s, stereos, garbage disposal was a
problem, their animals were a problem and there were many kitchen
odors that filtered down into my office* Therefore in 1981 I
converted apartment A into a medical or dental office in keeping
with the current zoning. That took another ten thousand dollars,
approximately, to again pot new walls and ceilings, insolation, a
new heat pomp, new wiring and plumbing all to code, and I subse-
quently pot a new roof on the building. That particular office
then remained vacant for seven months and I was unable to rent
MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*. 5
this space to a physician or to a dentist although the space was
so designed. In March of 19829 seven months laterr in despera-
tion I rented to Mr , Gersh, an attorney, I really didn ' t want to,
however it has worked out very satisfactory and he has been a
very good tenant and certainly his type of practice has been com-
patible with my practice . A little later in 1982 I decided to
renovate the last bit of space in that building - by the way that
is a sixteen room building - I decided to convert that into some
medical office space and I again spent another ten thousand doll-
ars doing much of the same kinds of things, and Doctor Green and
his associates, he is an Anethesiolo8ist, moved their business
office into the boilding. And one could argue that that really
is in keeping with a medical practice, however there were lots of
M ^D^ ' s on the door . And that worked, also, very satisfactorily
until November of this last year - November 1984 - when Dr . Green
and his associates moved to a larger first floor office and it
has now been vacant for eight months and I have contacted various
. realtors, I have advertised in Medical Society, and the Journal ,
and I have not been able to rent that space^ And since that
time, I have added - I had to add a new furnace for that partico-
lar , now vacant office, I did some remodelling and redecorating.
Adding what I have in that building, I figure I have approximate-
ly one hundred and sixty thousand dollars. It ' s a beautiful
building, it is in the historic district - it is a building that
I strongly felt needed to be renovated and preserved and it cer-
tainly was not that - one could hardly see the building from the
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BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE*, 6
street and I really feel that I have done this - and I have done
this well and I think I have been a very good neighbor and a good
citizen^ What are my options right now and as I see them, I have
several options, Obviously if I could rent to a physician or a
dentist, that would be ideal , but unfortunately it is a second
floor ^ I have looked into putting in an elevator , thirty thous-
and dollar item and I ' m not so sore that Historic Ithaca would
agree with my putting in an elevator because I think it would be
very difficult to pot one in because it would have to be an out-
side structure. So I am very doubtful , after eight months, that
' I am going to be able to rent that space, let alone Mr , Gersh ' s
space to a physician or a dentist, although the rooms are very
nice and I think, once one Sets op there it would make a very
nice medical office or dental office, I could convert the two '
spaces to apartments -in keeping with the building I would feel |
that I would have to convert them into very nice apartments - I
would have to put in what I would consider a very nice kitchen
and a very nice bathroom. I figure, in talking with my contrac-
tor , that to do both apartments with kitchens and bathrooms, we
are talking in the neighborhood of twenty-five thousand dollars.
I know I can ' t get that kind of rent to even begin to cover the
amount of investment that I have there~ I could, and I would
like to have other professionals op there, I have one profes-
sional there and I think that a professional that is using the
space in which I see that that space should be used. I currently
have a mortgage and several loans on the building and my total
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RZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE40 7
investment is one hundred and sixty thousand dollars. If I were
to add an elevator and/or convert into apartments, my investment
there would be about two hundred thousand dollars^ It is a beau-
tiful historic building, in a historic district and I love it^
My patients love having me downtown. But it is not a two hundred
thousand dollar building and therefore I cannot do that and I
will not do that^ I will not pot that much money in to it - ob-
viously I have overspent. There is a fourth option and that is I
could move, However if I move, I really can ' t sell the building
- I know I can ' t get my money out of it and I would have to con-
vert the two apartments into - or the two offices into apartments
and my office into apartments, and I would have to do this in a
very minimal sort of fashion^ And then I think what was so iron-
ic here that this building would then - would notv in my estima-
tion, revert to residential - I think it would revert to housing,
I think it would become student housing and I would have to stash
as many students in that building as I could possibly get in or-
der to try and make ends meet^ And I really find after being
there and- living there for thirteen years and making this into a
'
beautiful building and I invite all of you to come and see it,
inside and out, I find that a very undesirable thing to do^ The
hospital is very anxious to have me op on the hill in their new
office building, they currently have an over-supply of medical
office space and I - but that would be an option, but then I
think that building will have to revert to disrepair , as I bought
it. I think for it to stay a medical office, I think it is great
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** �
for me" I have another thirteen to fifteen years practicein Ith-
aca and I would like to stay there because I have a great invest-
ment and I think it would be a tremendous hardship for me to not
be there and I think the only way to do this is to use that buil- ,
ding in the way that I feel that it would be best used and that
is as an office building. An office building for professionals.
It is in a professional area" it ' s a residential area which is
becoming much less of a residential area and I am very anxious
that it not become student housing, I think we have too much stu-
dent housing in this town and I think the four hundred block of
North Cayuga Street should not be student housing but that would
be what I would feel I would have to try to achieve^
MR. GERSH*+ My experience was also based on a somewhat desperate
sitoation^ I had an office in the First Federal Savings and
Loan, which is on the corner of Tio8a and Buffalo Street and I '
was given ninety days to leave. We had a clause in our lease
which permitted that - the bank, as you may remember had some
financial troubles and merged with various other banks in order
to stay solvent and the result of that was they brought new peo-
ple into what was formerly my space. So in December 1981 in the
middle of the winter basically, they gave me notice of ninety
days to leave. I was shocked. I never thought this would hap-
pen, which is, of courser why I went along with that ninety day
notice to begin with. In any event, I initiated a very exhaus-
tive comprehensive search for substitute office space, space that
. was both near the Court Hoose and space that was affordable. My
| �* MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 9
banker said that I could get a mortgage so I widened my search to
purchase possibilities as well as rental possibilities. And in
our papers that we submitted on this appeal , I ' ve listed just
some, I think about thirteen of the possibilities that I actively
pursued during those three months, December through March. One
or more resulted in a purchase offer which for various reasons
did not come to fruition* There was extensive discussions with
Stan Goldberg, who at that time was looking to sell the Meadow
Hoose building on TioSa Street and I spent a lot of time and a
lot of money doing design plans, and so forth, it just wasn ' t
feasible, based upon my financial perameters. I made inquiries
of many other people and they are listed there, I won ' t take your
time, Let me just emphasize that these are just some of the
things that I can remember going through during those three
months. I am quite certain there are dozens of other people that
I contacted, dozens of other leads that I chased down, trying to
find suitable office space -suitable being near the Court Hoose
and being something that I could afford and nothing worked out.
It was then that I saw Dr ^ Salerno ' s ad in the Ithaca Journal , I
went over and I looked at his space and quite frankly, no of-
fense, the space was not ideal for my porposes ^ For one thing it
wasn ' t as close to the Court Hoose as I would have liked. Se-
condly it was laid out for a medical office, it had a large
waiting room suitable for the number of patients a doctor sees an
hour , which is far in excess of the number of people I see in an
hour . So there was a lot of wasted space, it had consulting
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*, In
rooms and examining rooms, the dimensions of which were not suit-
able for the needs that I had which is for a library and a con-
ference room. The thing in Dr . Salerno ' s favor was the space
was attractive, it had a ten or eleven car parking lot with it
for clients and for ourselves and it was available. I then went
to see Tom Hoard, to discuss the possibility with hint. I had
known for some time that there was a basic policy in the City of
not strictly enforcing the home occupation laws* Home occupa-
tions, as you know, require that if someone is a resident at a '
location they can have an incidental occupation as a lawyer or a
dressmaker or insurance man and on and on. The home occupation
laws were very loosely enforced, if enforced at all . In fact,
for some ten or fifteen years at that point, situations had
existed with no action on the part of the City whatsoever and
situations which were, I think, of a more significant nature than
what I was so8Sesting. I was suggesting that I move into an
existing office - an office that had been legally created by Dr .
Galerno^ I was not doing any converting, I was not taking away
any housing stock. I was not creating a parking lot, I was not
putting new signs on a buildin8. I was moving into an existing
office^ Other situations had existed, as I say, for ten or more
years before, in which people had done a conversion, had moved
`
from or taken a residential user converted into an office use and
the City had acqoiesed^ The City had felt, well they say it is
their home, therefore we will let it be their home. I was City
Attorney from ' 72 to ' 74 and I can remember the discussions
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| A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE"
11
around City Hall that we have to do something about that home
occupation law, maybe we will change it, maybe we ' ll do this, do
that - nothing was done for all of these years. As a result of
our discussion, Commissioner Hoard also informed me that the very
definition of medical was in a state of flux - that there was no
definition of what is a medical office in the Zoning Ordinance,
that all sorts of people had been given the okay to be a 'medical
office" including social workers and when I thought about that I
realized that the kind of work that I do as a lawyer differs very
little from what a social worker does. He give advice, we shuf-
fle papers and that is essentially it, So after discussing the
matter with Commissioner Hoard and not receiving any prohibition
- I mean, I suspect had I come to Tom and said, I want to pot op
golden arches on North Cayuga Street, I suspect he would have
said, absolutely riot . But here I went to him and said I intend
to make a home occupation in Dr . Salerno ' s office building and '
given the situation which, as I say, had existed for a decade .
before and given the fact that the medical situation - the defin-
ition of what is a medical office, was in this state of ambiSo- '
ity, I went ahead and a week or two later signed with Dr ~
Salerno. I relied on what had been at that time a long standing
acquiescence in the very loose interpretation of home occupation
and relied and expected that that interpretation would continue .
I felt then, and I feel now that I have not done any of the
things - I have not taken any of the actions which I think are .
currently being criticized by some members of Common Council - in
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BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE*+ 12
particular , depleting the housing stock of this City, turning
back yards into parking lots. I didn ' t do that, I moved into an
existing office building, an office that had legally been created
by Dr , Salerno years before . The situation, I think, could be
confirmed when I tell you that I ' ve been in that office for three
years, for three years I have had my sign on the building,-I ' ve
advertised in the yellow pages, I sent Commissioner Hoard a copy
of my lease, at his request, back in ' 82 and for three years
there has been no action against me saying that what you are do-
ing is prohibited and you have to move. That again demonstrates
to you, I hope, that this was the climate that existed in the
City of Ithaca in 1982 when I made my commitment to move into Dr .
Salerno ` s building and for at least ten, twelve, fifteen years
before that and I suggest to you that it is not reasonable to
enforce today ' s standards of morality or bow the Zoning Ordinance
is to be enforced, which is strictly based upon the climate that
`
existed when I took my action and made my commitment back in
1982^ Dr , Salerno has explained to you some of the hardship that '
^
he would soffer , were our appeal not to be granted, I too would .
suffer severe hardship - there would be a significant financial '
hardship in having to replace my phone system and signs and sta-
tionery, and so forth" my service to my clients would suffer ad- .
versely, there would be a serious loss of continuity while I went
through the process of movin8. I ask you to consider that under .
the special circumstances that both Dr , Salerno and I have rela-
ted to you that these consequences, his and mine would be undue '
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, -^ MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 13
and undeserved hardship. What we ask you for is to broaden the
type of use that Dr . Salerno can make of his office space* Not
to limit it in any way to medical or dental but to expand it to
include professional uses, a lawyer , architect, engineer , an ac-
countant, these uses in the existing office building would not in
any way detract from the spirit of the Ordinance. The Ordinance
has defined our block of North Cayuga Street as an R3a district *
It is a mixed use district. Allowed in that district, in addi-
tion to residential uses are fraternity hooses, tourist homes,
schools, day care centers, chorchs, libraries, fire stations,
convalescent homes - it is not now, and it has not been a purely
residential district, It is also true that continuing the office
use in Dr . Salerno ' s professional building is in accord to the
City ' s general plan* In 1971 Common Council adopted a comprehen-
sive long range plan which was promulgated by the Planning Board
and in that long range plan they state that the R3 area is well
suited as a location for professional , service and offices. I
believe that it is of great concern to you to know what are the �
sentiments the people most directly affected by my occupancy of
this office and indeed by having other professional offices in '
Dr , Salerno ' s building. As he mentioned to you, the other space, .
roughly two suites of offices upstairs, my space he indicated was '
empty for or vacant for some seven months before I came along, '
the other side, as he has indicated to your has been vacant since
November when the Anesthesiologist ' s billing office moved out -
`
he has just not been able to rent the space^ We are asking that .
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 14
that space be used, as I say, for professional tenants such as
lawyer , doctor , architect, accountant, engineeer ^ ^ , we have - as
you know on a zoning case, the residents, the neighbors, the peo-
ple affected, are very vocal and they let you know how they feel .
I ' m pleased to tell you that we went door to door and we ap-
proached our neighbors and the response that we received from
every person we spoke to was favorable. There was one exception,
and that was a gentleman who said I ' m not sore, I think I will
send in a letter to the Board and I don ' t know whether or not
that has come in but apart from that there has been no negative
response whatsoever ^ On the contrary, our neighbors, the people
affected by the appeal that we are bringing to you are strongly
in favor of what we are doing, including our most immediate
neighbors* This is a rough map that we pot together , the red dot
indicates the location of Dr . Salerno ' s building. All of the
blue on E. Court Street, west of os and east of os, all of the
blue on both the east and west sides of Cayuga Street are people
who have signed our petition saying that we support this appeal *
And I submit to you that that is a very substantial important
piece of evidence for you to consider * The people affected by
`
os, these people next door , just north of os are the Watts - they .
have a magnificent home^ The people over here whose homes front '
on Dr . Salerno ' s parking lot" you ' d think if anybody was going to .
object to this and say don ' t let it be office space, it would be
`
these people, but all of these people have signed a petition sop-
porting our application. In addition we ' ve illustrated with yel-
! 7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 15
low or gold, the non-residential uses just to give you some idea ,
that Dr . Salerno ' s building here is in a general area in which
non-residential uses are already in existence. I would ask that
the map and the petition which I would like to submit, be made
part of the record. I also have received, I guess more correct-
ly, Dr . Salerno has received a letter from the Executive Direc-
tor of the Chamber of Commerce and I think Mr ^ Brewer , who was
given notice of this proceeding because the Chamber property is
within two hundred feet of Dr . Salerno ' s property, the Chamber
whose job it is to promote the best interests of the City, they
strongly support our appeal and I would ask you to take a moment
just to review what Mr , Brewer has said and I would ask that the
original be entered into the record as well ^ We ' ve also received
a letter from Dr , Hersh who has the building just to the south of
Dr , Salerno ' s building and I would request your consideration of
Dr * Hersh ' s letter and ask that the original also be made a part
of the record in this matter .
MS, FARRELL'# He have a copy of Dr ^ Hersh ' s letter ,
MR. CERSH'+ You have a copy of Dr . Hersh ' s letter? Okay, To
summarize I think vital that what we are requesting this evening
be distinguished from other situations which may exist . We are
not asking that you approve of someone who has made a conversion
from residential to office, that you give your stamp to someone
who has illegally taken what was a back yard and made it into a
parking lot, and so forth* Dr . Salerno created beautiful office
spaces - he has found, to his dismay, that he is unable to rent '
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 16
them in the only way that the Zoning Ordinance permits, medical
or dental offices, and therefore we ask your consideration of our
request to permit him to rent this space to other professional
oses^ There will be absolutely no change in the use of the boil-
ding, It is now an office building, it will continue to be an
office boildin8^ It will not in any way detract from the neigh-
borhood - the ten or eleven car parking lot is more than ample to
continue its use as an office building and I think, very impor-
tantly the people directly affected by what we are asking for
approve of what we are asking for . I think Mr . Hoard has heard
from some other people who have taken it upon themselves to write
to him asking you to approve our appeal * And that is very unus-
ual - it is very natural for people who are against something to
take the trouble to write but I think it is less likely for peo-
ple who approve of something to take the trouble to do that* And
I think it is significant that they have. The statute, the Ordi-
nance, requires that you find three elements in order to approve
our variance - that you find that strict application of the Ordi-
nance would produce undue hardship, that the hardship created is
unique and not shared by all the properties that are in our dis-
trict and that the variance would observe the spirit of the Ordi-
nance and not change the character of the district. Those are .
the elements which you are asked to determine and I submit to you '
`
that the evidence which we have brought forth, amply justifies `
your granting of the use variance. I think we have satisfied
each of those three elements and those are the three elements
^
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/ -'u MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE*. 17
which we are - that is our burden of proof and I believe that we
have met that burden of proof and I hope to your satisfaction.
There is one other matter that I will just mention, When I dis-
cussed this appeal with Mr . Hoard, he examined the file at 404
North Cayuga Street and found that there was a long standing side
yard setback deficiency ^ Dr ^ Salerno tells me that he hasn' t
done anything in all of the years that he has owned the building
to in any way increase or decrease that side yard setback that
has been there since he bought the building in ' 72. He has re-
ceived no complaints from neighbors, I understand, regarding that
and there is no feasible way for him to correct the side yard
setback, so we are also asking your consideration of an area var-
iance to permit this deficient side yard setback to continoe^ We
brought with os plans - these are the blueprints, whatever , that
Dr * Salerno had prepared when he landscaped the property, planned
it. We ' ve also brought a drawing that I guess your contractor
prepared, or architect? of the office that I now occupy and you
can see on it, it was layed out for medical , it has examining
rooms and consulting rooms and waiting rooms, and so forth. So
these are available for your examination* Thank you.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'4 Questions from members of the Board? Dick?
MR. BOOTH*# Did you talk to - I take it it is Mr and Mrs,
Carlson, Marvin and Patricia?
MR^ GERSH++ No, They are not within two hundred feet, They were
not given notice of this hearing by us.
MR. BOOTH: Your address is?
^
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE4* 18
MR, CERSH*+ 404 North Cayuga Street^
MR~ BOOTH'+ They are at 407?
MR, GERSH+4 North Aurora Street~
MR^ BOOTH** I misread that^
MR^ GERSH++ Mr , Booth, let me just - I understand that the Carl-
sons are opposed to our application, I believe that if you exa-
mine their letter , I think they misinterpret what we are seeking,
They talk about depleting housing stock. They talk about turning
a back yard into a parking lot . They talk about hanging ugly
signs on a boildin8^ That isn ' t the issue here. Dr . Salerno
did all those things many years ago legally. What we are talking
about is permitting him to continue to Set a fair return on his
office space^ So I think their concerns are well founded but
they are not relevant to this application, We are not converting
a residence to an office, that is an important distinction. The
office is there - legally there,
MR^ BOOTH** And they are not within two hundred feet? Do you
know why they chose to write?
MR* CERSH** I ' m sore because they saw the article in the two
legal notices in the Ithaca Journal and I know their beautiful
home is very close to the office of Attorney Bill Sullivan and I
know that that has caused them a great deal of consternation but
again my situation is not the same as Mr , Sullivans,
MR, BOOTH'4 You also refer to the Chamber of Commerce letter , It
seems to me that what the main thrust of what the Chamber of Com-
merce has to say is to quarrel with what the City has decided to
`
_
MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*. 19
do in allowing or not allowing certain kinds of uses* That ' s not
what you are quarreling with. They are basically saying, treat
medical and all other professionals the same way,
MR. CERSH'+ Yes sir ^
MR, BOOTH'* As a policy matter *
MR. CERSH'+ That ' s right.
MR, BOOTH*# That ' s not the point that you are arguing on.
MR~ GERSH++ In a sense I think we are because the Ordinance sin-
gled out medical and dental as a permitted use in an R3a zone and
what the Chamber is saying, if I can paraphrase their comments,
they are saying, why - there is no logical reason to say that it
is more desirable to have a doctor in a residential neighborhood
than an accountant, or an architect. In fact, I think it might
even be argued, with all doe respect, that it is even less intro-
sive to have a different kind of professional . Not only is there
much more traffic with a physician, but there are other things
that doctors and dentists do which might interfere with a resi-
dential use. What comes to mind is, X-ray equipment might inter-
fere with your television or radio reception, the garbage that a
doctor pots out is - to be tasteful -messy with bloody banda8es,
and so forth^ The garbage that an accountant or a lawyer or a
bookkeeper pots out is paper , I think if given a choice, it
would be more desirable to have professions other than doctors or
dentists in my residential neighborhood,
MR. BOOTH** But the point is, that is not this Board ' s decision, .
MR* GERSH'# That ' s - well , in a sense we are asking that you
`
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*' 20
expand the definition or the latitude that Dr ^ Salerno has. He
doesn ' t want to be limited to renting only to doctors and
dentists because he has been unable to do so. He has the
experience of some fifteen months of vacancies.
MR. BOOTH: Why isn ' t that, though, simply an economic decision
that was the wrong one? He over expanded? Why should the City
now grant a variance to allow that to be covered in, so to speak?
MR, CERSH*+ I think because that is exactly what the purpose of
this Board is , to grant a special situation where strict
application of the Ordinance would cause undue hardship ^
MR^ BOOTH+# But isn ' t this, in this case, self-imposed by Dr ,
Salerno?
MR, CERSH'+ I think it is always self-imposed. Dr . Salerno,
following the Zoning Ordinance, spent a lot of money to create a
professional office building for doctors and dentists and now he
finds that he can ' t find doctors and dentists.
MS^ FARRELL'+ It seems like perhaps there was a bad market study
there or something?
MR, CERSH't He is a physician, he is not an economist, he is not
a socialist* . .
MS. FARRELL** I know, but before you 8o and make a big renovation
or something, you might want to check if there really is a market
for it.
MR, CERSH*+ But the market has chan8ed4 The professional ^ ^ ^ '
MS, FARRELL** It seems like the market hadn ' t changed between the
`
time of converting it and that seven months. I mean that it
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*# /
seems like as soon as it was converted, there was no market. I
don ' t know how long the renovations took, I can ' t imagine that
they took a whole lot longer ,
MR. GERSH** I think the situation has worsened in time as the
Professional Building on Tromansbor8 Road expanded, as Dr , Sa-
lerno found, and he was not aware of the fact that the second
floor location was an absolute torn-off. I mean, you did have
interested doctors look at it, did you not?
DR. SALERNO'# Yes.
MR, CERSH'* It was apparently that second floor location, But I
suggest to you that your purpose is not to enforce the Ordinance . .
Your purpose is to grant exceptions to the Ordinance where there '
is a situation of hardship, economic hardship and that ' s what is
happening here* Perhaps Dr . Salerno ' s marketing decision was not
`
the right one, but be that as it may, he has to face that situa-
tion now and he is asking you to help him avoid making that hard- .
ship even worse and that is, I think, your responsibility, Do '
you feel that the hardship is a real one, a substantial one and
that giving him what he is asking for will not take away from the
neighborhood, will not offend the spirit of the Ordinance, will '
not bring about the hostility of our neighbors, then I think it
is appropriate for you to do so, Rather than to second guess his
judgment, I don ' t think that is why we are here*
>
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Further questions from the other side, perhaps?
MR, NEAVER� Before you vacate this side ' s rights, I have a
question. Length of your lease David? '
`
-- - --
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACEo' 22
MR. CERSH'+ Year to year ,
MR, WEAVER** The other question that I raise on hardship, you are
claiming a hardship as part of the basis for ^ , ^
MR, CERSH** Yes.
MR. NEAVER*+ Not just to the owner?
MR. CERSH++ Yes,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN40 The other side perhaps?
SECRETARY HOARD! How about the back side?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN44 Back side is okay too^
SECRETARY HOARD'# I want to correct I think a misimpression that
you have given on the enforcement question. You moved into that
/
building in 1982, is that correct? '
`
MR^ GERSH'+ Yes, .
SECRETARY HOARD*+ In June of 1982 I sent you a letter reminding '
you that when we had talked about this situation before you moved .
in that it was my understanding that you were going to apply for
a variance and I followed that op with a letter of June 30, 1982 ^
and you did not file for a variance and I turned it over to the .
City Attorney ' s office, So there isn ' t a question of non- '
enforcement^ And you are only the third of that - you made it '
,
sound like there were a lot of home occupations that were sprout-
ing op all over town that were unenforced - you are only the '
third in that category and the other two have been here since you .
were City Attorney, so I think the non-enforcement goes back to
your era and you give the impression that it is my era that is
not enforcing it ^
prA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE44 23
MR. CERSH*+ Oh no, if I made that impression I certainly want to
correct it. It was the policy of the City of Ithaca as expressed
by the mayors, by each administration, successively, that that
home occupation situation would not be enforced^ Jost in re-
sponse to what you said, Tom, I replied to your letter by a let-
ter of July 20th which I said that you did not, to the best of my
recollection, you did not say that I would have to go before the
Board of Zoning Appeals and reiterated our discussion as I re-
called it and this letter is dated July 20, 1982^ , ~ ,
SECRETARY HOARD+# That ' s the Personal , Confidential and Secret
one?
MR, GERSH++ I didn ' t want to embarrass you by having everybody in
your office ^ , ^
SECRETARY HOARD'* Well it is all public record, no matter what
label you pot on it,
MR, CERSH*+ All ri3ht^ If it won ' t bother your let me just share
it with the Board. In that letter I deny that you had said that
I would have to 8o before the Board of Zoning Appeals and since
July of 1982 to the present time, I have not been asked to do
anything further and that is not because of any action or inac-
tion on the part of the Building Commissioner ' s office, it is '
because that is the pervasive attitude of the City Administration '
and it wasn ' t until just recently that Common Council decided to
change the situation, that now there is some enforcement being '
done, .
MR. HEAVER++ What you are saying is , if I can get back to the
'
�
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE4
beginning of this side issuer is that City policy is established
by the Mayor and occasionally the influence of the City Attorney,
not by Common Council , is that correct?
MR^ CERSH** I don ' t think I have to tell you Chief , how City
policy is established^
MR, NEAVER'# But Council adopts an Ordinance and provides for
enforcement authority but the Mayor and his appointees decide to
enforce or not to enforce and that becomes the policy? I just
want to make sore that everyone at the table understood the im-
plication of what David is very clearly pointing out.
MR. CERSH*� I think it is a matter of fact,
MR^ WEAVER*4 I' m not disagreeing, ,
MR. CERSH*f For fifteen years there has been nothing, why? There
have been a lot of City Attorneys, there have been a lot of
Mayors and there has been no action and I think that I have a
right to rely on that, Exactly. I think I have a right to
rely, , ^
MR, WEAVER'* There haven ' t been many people arrested today '
possibly for running a red light but that doesn ' t give me any .
license to go out there and do the same thing, because people are '
arrested* * * '
MR. GERSH*# People are arrested for running a red light, that is .
a very different situation, '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Could I just clarify one thing? Your appeal at
the moment is for an area variance and for a use variance. I
thought I heard, but I am wondering if I did, something about an
'
'
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ `
interpretation, you are not changing in any way, your
application?
`
MR. CERSH** No,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Thank you.
MR. BOOTH'+ Two questions, If you converted this doctor , to a
multiple family residence, is it correct that you could pot, on-
der the Zoning Ordinance, six units in this building? Maybe that
is better directed to Tom, I don ' t know, What is the number
- if this building were converted to apartments, what is the
number of apartments that would be allowed.
SECRETARY HOARD'* Well first of all he would be back here for a
rear yard variance,
MR. BOOTH*+ I understand that* I ' m not suggesting that it is
`
easy Tom.
SECRETARY HOARD'+ Well he would need seven thousand square feet
for the first three units and seven fifty for each additional `
unit* He has got nine thousand four hundred and eighty* '
MR, BOOTH*+ That would give him three additional , You know what '
,
the going - is there a rate in that area for apartments that is a .
typical rate, that you know of? Are there any residences in that ^
area, either multiple family or single family around you at the '
moment? '
DR^ SALERNO'* Yes, a lot of students,
MR^ BOOTH44 A lot of students. Any families living there?
DR, SALERNO++ I don ' t thiok there are any children, I don ' t
know anything about families^ What is your definition of family?
_
' -7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 26
MS. FARRELL", How about the Watts?
MR, BOOTH't Related individuals living together .
DR. SALERNO*4 I don ' t know - yes, my next door neighbor *
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*f Could I be a little bit more pointed about
that? If the going - could I ask what the going rate is now or
the arrangement and the specifics dollars and cents per month
between yourself and the tenants (unintelligible)?
DR, SALERNO*# I have one tenant now and that is Mr * Gersh* I
think his rent is five fifty a month?
MR, CERSH*+ Yes,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ And prior , when you had the previous tenants?
DR^ SALERNO** I think it was about five hundred.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN#' Have you done any further specifics - dollars
and cents proforma analysis as to what the economic hardship
might be under various scenarios - in any way from what you have
provided by virtue of the amount of money that you have pot in?
DR. SALERNO*# I think that if I was able to continue the rental
`
arrangement that I had, I would be doing okay^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ All righty let me be a little bit - I ' m going
to try to help you a little bit. Some of the members of the
Board , I think, are beginning to wonder whether , in fact, you ' ve
done any solid marketing study* What I ' m trying to do is bring
on the table, if there is any specifics about various economic
schemes you might have pot forward in such a way as to float this
project.
DR^ SALERNO'4 No,
— ^
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 27
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*0 Thank you.
MR. BOOTH'# How much square footage does Mr . Gersh rent, roughly?
MR. GERSH'+ About seven hundred and fifty^
MR^ BOOTH'+ Seven hundred fifty square feet and you are paying
five hundred and fifty a month,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ Any further questions?
MR, NEAVER*+ I guess in the same area, I haven ' t the slightest
idea what your actual quarters are or what they are worth to your
in other words, versos alternate quarters and related to a
capital investment. There is obviously more than capital
investment to be concerned with* The total footage that your
office occupies?
DR, SALERNO'# Probably about fifteen hundred square feet, And I
know at the new hospital building, I think the going rate is
about sixteen dollars a square foot, I ' ve been trying to rent at
eight dollars a square foot.
MR. AEAVER*+ To have a clear idea of the hardship that is cre-
ated? going beyond inconvenience and difficulty but how much
hardship, really requires an understanding of the value of the
premises for the proposed and alternate uses and whether any one
�
of them is economically feasible. It could be that granted the '
use variance for "any professional office" would it then be eco- '
nomically feasible^ I don ' t know that, those numbers haven ' t
- other than the capital investment - those numbers haven ' t been
made available so to make a decision that a hardship exists re-
quires a great deal of speculation or blind faith - either is not '
`
`
' -^ MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE'+ 28
particularly attractive to me. I find it very difficult to say
yes there is a hardship there because somebody said so^
MR, GERSH** I think a hardship extends beyond the pore economics.
Dr . Salerno says that he is spending a good part of his life in
this building and he would like to share that building with com-
patible tenants, I don ' t think - to pot it another way - I think
'
it would be a hardship if he were compelled to have to rent to
residential tenants again* He had that experience, found it in-
compatible with his professional office but unless you permit him
to rent to other than - to more than just medical and dental ten-
ants, which he has been unable to find, then he has indicated
that that is his only option is to reconvert it back to apart-
ments and I think, as he suggested, that is a personal hardship
to him, I think he has the privilege of not having noise and
smells and whatever else he found disagreeable with student ten-
ants and the Ordinance now - he has a medical office op there and
there is not a whole lot of difference in saying, let ' s allow an .
architect to be in there ^ There is no earthly difference, in '
fact there is less of an intrusion and again, I underline the ,
fact that our neighbors are with us*
MR. HEAVER*6 Well this whole community makes a living, either
directly or indirectly, out of the process of trying to educate
college age individuals and if nobody will have them in their
home and no one will have them next door I suppose we do have a
serious hardship, any of os that see or hear a student. On the
other hand, we have an area - the building is in an area fairly
�
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ '
zoned for multiple residents. Multiple residents indicate three
or more apartments and that ' s what our Planners and our Legisla-
tures say is appropriate and whether the Ordinance gets enforced
or not by succeeding administrations notwithstanding, this Board
is married to the Ordinance and not to what the next Administra-
tion may or may not do. So I ' m not at all impressed by the fact
that you took some comfort in the fact that there was nonenforce-
ment of an Ordinance^ I can ' t help but be somewhat excited about
the fact that someone in the legal profession that has been a
City Attorney gets caught in the bind that is created by that
supposition. There certainly - I ' m not seeing clear figures that
indicate a hardship* I hear the conversation generally - that it
is difficult and they can ' t rent to another medical profession
but I don ' t see the numbers that will carry this out to the ulti-
mate conclusion that it can ' t be used for an approved use which
is a different thing.
MR^ CERSH*+ Well the approved use as a medical office, which Dr ^
Salerno says is a practical impossibility, so then we So - the
next step is to go back to apartments, and I think Dr . Salerno
outlined what that would cost, how much did you say Doctor?
DR. SALERNO** Twenty-five thousand.
MR, BOOTH*+ Counsellor , the Court cases in New York State are
pretty clear , You have to show, or Dr , Salerno has to show, each
and every use that is allowed by the Zoning Ordinance, is not
possible on this piece of property. I think what Mr . Weaver is
saying is, that is a tough burden and (unintelligible) there have
`
�'�A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*4 30
to be some pretty specific numbers that show that that is true.
MR. CERGH** Why don ' t you repeat those numbers, I think you are
op to two hundred thousand dollars and, you knowr faced with the
possibility of just moving from your office, returning it to stu-
dent housing and having your patients, who have had the conven-
ience of having a downtown physician, have to go out to Tromans-
borg Road a8ain^ So perhaps you could just repeat those figures
Doctor?
DR, SALERNO** I think I indicated that I paid thirty-two thousand
for the building and I spent one hundred thousand dollars ini-
tially and subsequently spent twenty thousand in renovations in
each of those former apartments and offices and I am now op at
around one hundred and sixty thousand dollars for three units. I
think that if I were to make two offices upstairs into apart-
ments, or depending on the quality - if I were to continue the
quality which I now have, I figure that it would - my contractor
says somewhere between twenty-two and twenty-six thousand dol-
lars. If I were then to take my offices, which are offices, they
are not apartments - this is not anapartment, it has been an
office for thirteen years and if I were then to have to create
*
several more apartments, I ' m glad to hear that you think that I
could pot four down there - that would be interesting -I - this
is going to be a building that is well over two hundred thousand
dollars and I think it is going to lose a great deal of the char-
acter that it now has. And I guess that concerns me because I
have a commitment to that area and that neighborhood and I think
MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*# 31
it is a beautiful torn of the century building and I am not sore
that I have - I own some other rental property and I rent to stu-
dents and I enjoy students - part of my practice is students, but
I am not sore that I think that this particular property would
work very well with eight or ten or twelve students in it and I
do feel that that is what it would take, I can' t give you speci-
fic dollars but I think in order for me to get this building to
torn, that is what it would take,, One of the reasons that I left
the Professional Building - there were several reasons that I
left the Professional Building and moved downtown - the primary
reason was to be close to my patients and I heard for at least
three to four years after I made that move, from patients every
day , how glad they were that I had moved, I felt that I was do-
ing a great service to the community and from a convenience point
of view, it was much more convenient - and still is - much more
convenient for most of my patients then it is for me, I 3o to
the hospital every day, I operate almost every day, I see pa-
tients in the hospital every day, so I have to go back and forth
but I felt that my twenty plus patients a day do not have to do
that. I also did this, obviously, to lessen my rental . Thirteen
years ago I was paying three hundred dollar -three hundred and
fifty dollars a month for office space that was a quarter of the
size of what I have now and it was inadequate* I saw my practice
growing, I needed an audiologic suite and I needed more office
examining rooms* So I created what I think is a very idealic
office and for me to now recreate this, it would be at this stage
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE*+ '-,
of my practice, sixteen years and I have passed the halfway mark
on that, I think it would be a great hardship to then have to pay
sixteen dollars a square foot because I am not paying sixteen
dollars a square foot right now^ I don ' t know what I am paying,
obviously, I own the building with all its headaches and with all
�
its advantages and disadvanta8es^ But I guess I would feel that �
I would probably have to do this and I think that this would be
doing a disservice to my patients. It would be a tremendous fi-
nancial burden for me and I think that my total investment in �
this property would be such that I don ' t think it would ever - as
I indicated, I love the boildinS, it is a beautiful building, I
have enjoyed preserving it, I have enjoyed doing my little bit
for Historic Ithaca, but it is not a two hundred thousand dollar
building, not with that kind of zoning. If this were two hooses
over , I think it might be, but it is not and I saw this as a med-
ical building, I envisioned the possibility of putting an eleva-
tor in it but the dollars have been such that they have multi-
plied and they have not just gone op but there has been a rather �
precipitous jump and I thought paying thirty-two thousand dollars
thirteen years was a pretty sizeable amount and that was hardly
the beginning. Yes I suppose I am naive but that has been a won-
derful place to practice and a wonderful place for my patients to
come to and on that I guess it has been worth it but I am not
sore that it is worth my adding twenty five percent more or what-
ever the mathematics are there* Unless I do it in a fashion that
I think - would probably detract from the kind of neighborhood
'
'
MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 33
that we have been trying to create there - a neighborhood with
beautiful restored homes - homes that are going to last, hopeful-
ly, a couple a hundred years, and this one was not that when I
bought it. I feel very good about what I have contributed to -
I ' ve done my little bit for Historic Ithaca and I think I have
done it very well . I am proud of what I have done, And I ' d like
to continue to keep it that way. '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN't Further questions? Thank you gentlemen* Is .
there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of this '
variance? Please step forward^ '
MR. H' NARD*+ I ' m Neal Howard; I am an owner of Carey Property .
Management and I have a client that is in the four hundred block '
of North Cayuga Street that has five office spaces for rent, .
/
Right now they are empty because we cannot rent them because we
are restricted in medical profession only. Again it is on a se-
cond floor where most doctors don ' t want to be because their pa-
tients cannot climb stairs, And right now it is empty and I
would like to have the Board pass this so that this could be
rented to other than to a medical professional , such as accoun-
tant, architect or anything like that.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** Would you be more specific about your
relationship to this case?
MR, HONARD*# This is in the four hundred block of North Cayuga
Street.
MS, FARRELL't Is it within two hundred feet?
MR. HONARD*+ Yes it is.
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ 34
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ I see, Could you be more explicit about who
this client is so that we know where you are coming from?
MR. HOWARD** This is Dr . Hersh ' s office, who is next door to
this, He has hired our agency to rent this office space on the
second floor * It has been sitting empty since June 1st - we have
shown this office way before June 1st trying to find somebody for
that which we still have not been able to do^
MS. FARRELL; So your point is that the present problem is not
unique to this building it is also common to other buildings on
the street?
`
MR, HONARD'# That is correct,
MR^ BOOTH** Does your comment suggest if this variance, . .
MR, CERSH** To one other boildinS, ° ,
MS. FARRELL** Okay, to one other building on the street. So it
is not a unique problem.
MR* BOOTH*# Do your comments suggest that should the Board grant .
this variance that your client will be here requesting similar
|
variances? �
MR, HOWARD*# I would assume that if you grant it for next door '
that you would grant it for him, yes. Because there is a hard- �
ship, also, in his case , He has five office spaces there, that
are completely empty° with no income, And again, he wants pro-
fessional people in his office, not students because of his work-
ing hours during the day with his patients .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN+# Any further questions from members of the
Board? Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak
'
! -'A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE* 35
in favor of granting this variance? (no one) Is there anyone
who would like to speak in opposition to granting this variance?
(no one) That being the case, it is ours.
MR. CERSH+' Excuse me, Mr ^ Hoard, I think, has some letters in
support of this appeal ^
SECRETARY HOARD'* They have all received the letters - they were
all distriboted^
i
/
-- ,
nZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ 36
DISCUSSION OF THE BOARD ON APPEAL NO, 1625
'
MS. JOHNSON*# What is the spirit of this, or the intent of the
Zoning Ordinance to limit this area to medical and dental only?
SECRETARY HOARD'+ Well it is the spirit of the Ordinance, op
until recently and now medical/dental offices are not allowed in
this zone either , Historically in State zoning medical offices
were allowed - doctor ' s offices were allowed in neiShborhoods.
That goes back to the horse and buggy days - people had to walk
to doctor ' s offices,
MR. BOOTH'# This is the amendment you are referring to - just a
couple of months ago?
SECRETARY HOARD'+ Yes .
MS. JOHNSDN'f Were these offices now, though, the ones that were
in place, like Dr . Salerno ' s are grandfathered?
SECRETARY HOARD'# They are grandfathered*
MS* JOHNSON** For medical only then - he came in under that - or
that was after his, . ,
SECRETARY HOARD+* Right^ Yes, Dr , Salerno ' s office is
grandfathered*
MS* JOHNSON't Does this create a situation in which I feel - I
feel - I sense this has mushroomed, the building - every month we
are going to have , ^ , is this the first person who has come in
on this, ^ ^ ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN4+ Since the Ordinance has been passed, isn ' t that
the case?
. MR, BOOTH*+ Will you goys speak op, nobody is going to be able to
~ '
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE+1 /
hear you.
SECRETARY HOARD*# Well this came out of the prosecution on the
lawyer ' s office question, not on the medical/dental ^ ^ ^
MS. JOHNSON** Yes.
MR. WEAVER** If the argument is a general argument about a blind
spot in the Ordinance, it is pretty hard to believe in that the
Council just got through specifically denying any kind of right
. of a medical office to be placed in a residential nei8hborhood.
So that is not something that has laid hidden for a long while,
in fact, quite the contrary, they just got through a committee of
Common Council , I assume the Planners had some opportunity to
comment and the vote by Common Council that is going in the di-
rection opposite to what these appellants are suggesting that non
residential uses in a residential neighborhood (unintelligible)
specific exemption of medical offices was deleted from the Ordi-
nance^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*f Consistent with that I would like to note that
the Planning and Development Board met, staff recommendation of
the Planning Board was to deny and the motion was to deny* So it
seems as though that is fairly definite in that regard*
_
MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 38
DECISION ON APPEAL NO. 1625 404-404^5 NORTH CAYUGA STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of Dr . Salerno
and David Gersh for use and area variances to permit use of the
second floor of the structure at 404-404,5 North Cayuga Street
for a lawyer ' s office, in addition to doctor ' s offices on the
first floor * The decision of the Board was as follows*.
MS* FARRELL*� I move that the Board deny the use and
area variances requested in appeal number
1625,
MR. BOOTH'+ I second the motion,
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT*+
1 ) The building was previously used legally as a medical office
and two apartments with a presumably viable return on the
investment for approximately nine years before it was changed
to more offices*
2) The present use as a law office has been illegal for the
entire time of its occupancy as soch^
3) Because the owner converted the building into additional �
medical offices which were proven to be onrentable even
though the prior legal use as apartments was viable, it
appears that any hardship claimed is self-imposed.
4) The hardship claimed does not appear unique to this property*
It would seem that there are similar buildings in residential
zones,
5) The owner has not shown adequately that the building could
not be viably used as it is legally zoned.
�
' rA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE� 40
SECRETARY HOARD** The next appeal is APPEAL NO, 1631 304
MITCHELL STREET
Appeal of Michael LoPinto for an area variance for
a deficient front yard setback under Section
30^25, Column 11 of the Zoning Ordinance to permit
the conversion of the single-family dwelling at
304 Mitchell Street to a single family dwelling
with an apartment^ The property is located in an
R1b (Residential , single-family dwelling) Use Dis-
trict in which the proposed use is permitted; how-
ever under Section 30 ^57 the appellant most obtain
an area variance for the deficient front yard set-
back before a building permit or Certificate of
Occupancy can be issued for the proposed conver-
sion,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN't Begin with identification of yourself,
MR, LOPINTO'4 I ' m Michael LoPinto, Jr . and just to Sive a little
history of the property in question, the hoose has been in the
LoPinto family for thirty years and I just took possession June
1st of this year . When I went to get a building permit I found
out that I had overlooked one small item in the Zoning Ordinances
which was that the Delaware side of the house was in fact a front
yard, not a side yard because when I measured it before I pur-
chased the hoose I was surprised to find out that I would have to
Set a variance. Because all I have to go to the Board - in the
appeal I outlined that I am able to comply with everything except
the side yard, which is the Delaware side which is deficient of
thirteen feet and the minimum square footage required for what I
have proposed to do is seventy-five hundred feet and I have
eighty-nine hundred and fifty-nine square feet which made me feel
that it is reasonable for me to ask for a area variance, And
that is pretty much my appeal ^
'
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE4. 41
MR, BOOTH** Mr ^ Chairman, before we begin I should say that I am
a neighbor of Mr . LoPinto ' s and I will not participate in the
discussion of the variance or vote on it, My property is clearly
one of those involved,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAM+# All right , Further questions?
MR, SCHNAB*+ You are living there now?
MR. LOPINTO#' Yes, I am planning - it is going to be - my plan is
for it to be owner-occopied. I ' m only in Ithaca six months of
the year because I am a professional builder and the unique cir-
cumstance here is that I am a single individual and I am living
in a four bedroom hoose which is a little bit too big for myself
- I am trying to set op a situation where I have a living space
in Ithaca when I am in Ithaca, six months of the year . Because I
travel - because I am a professional builder and I build in Flor-
ida in the winter and Ithaca in the summertime. So I am not
planning on renting the smaller apartment, I am converting it -
my proposal is to convert it from a one-bedroom -a four-bedroom
hoose to a one-bedroom for myself and a three-bedroom which I
would like - and I ' ve got it listed - I am listing it with Cor-
nell and aggressively seeking Cornell Faculty or Graduate Sto-
dents^ I have no plans - I am very familiar with the under-grad-
uate student rental situation - I ' ve just started sort of clean-
ing op the hoose and its going to be really designed for excel-
lent tenants - families especially - the three bedroom*
MS~ JOHNSON++ So from the proposed plan, would you be occupying
the small unit that is op and down in the back of the hoose?
�
�
i
/ -^ MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 42
MR^ LOPINTO'O Yes, I am basically trying to take a small enough,
I am trying to keep the apartment small enough so that I don ' t
really detract the way the hoose is^ I mean, it is a beautiful
three-bedroom hoose, formal dining room, I don ' t really want to
chop it op, I ' m trying to really keep the character of the hoose
and make it attractive to a family because it is a full three
bedroom house. I mean, the apartment would be - we would still
have the sense of the entire hoose - it is not like chapping it
op into apartments^ Because I do have a lot of affection for the
hoose because I grew op there.
�
MS. FARRELL'+ Have you considered applying for accessory
|
apartment?
MR. LOPINTO'+ Accessory apartment won ' t work in my situation be-
cause of the occupancy - you can ' t be gone for more than eighteen
`
months in a five year period so I would be constantly under jeo-
pardy of having my - the accessory apartment revoked^ It just .
wouldn' t work because the Planning Department suggested that and
when I read the occupancy - it just won ' t work. And the only
other alternative - I guess if I can ' t get the variance I guess
what I ' ll be forced to do is to just rent the entire hoose and '
then when I come back to Ithaca I ' ll have to rent an apartment^
So I ' m basically - the accessory apartment situation - in fact '
I ' ve got it right here if you would like to reread it but it is
jost^ , ^ ^ ^
MR, SCHHAB'+ Would that apply when over half the hoose is the
accessory apartment? Can you do an accessory apartment when the
'^
�
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ 43
apartment is over half the hoose?
MR, LOPINTO'# The owner-occupancy requirement - the owners are
then contract vendee of the lot - well you don ' t need to know
that - at least one of the dwelling units on the premises, except
for temporary absence is not to exceed eighteen months in any
five year period, which is impossible, I mean, I can ' t pot my-
self in that position* It would be foolish for me to do that, I
don ' t want to have to be devious in any way to hold on to my liv-
ing space. I mean, if it was the opposite situation where I was
in the three bedroom and the accessory apartment was rented
twelve months of the year , it would be a lot more simply - if I
was a family man* Because then the accessory apartment - no, I
�
would still be out of town - it still wouldn ' t work, Plus I am
trying to avoid - it ' s a four-bedroom hoose and I am trying to
�
avoid - I ' d like to get the one apartment down to three bedrooms �
because it makes it a lot more - it makes it so you don ' t really
have to lease your tenants as much because a four-bedroom hoose
'
can really torn into five or six tenants and I really believe
that I am going to be reducing the density of the neighborhood
because I ' m not even going to be there half of the year - or part
of the year - it always depends on what the work is like,
SECRETARY HOARD'* You realize that in any event, you cannot rent
the main unit to more than two unrelated? You can rent it to a
family but , , ^ ^
MR, LOPINTO*# If it is owner-occupied, okay, if owner-occupied,
each unit may be occupied by an individual or family plus not
:"A MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 44
more than one unrelated occupant except that if one unit is occu-
pied by a single individual the other may be occupied by no more
than three persons if unrelated,, Everything I am telling you is
my interpretation of what I ' ve read , Because that is the exact
situation that I am trying - that I have proposed and I am well
aware - you know that I am familiar with the Building Department
and Housing Department and, you knowr I an, well aware of the oc-
cupancy restrictions, which I am trying to actually eliminate by
reducing the number of bedrooms and trying to locate a family to
rent the three bedroom side because it is a residential neighbor-
hood and there are a lot of people - almost all the people in
close proximity are family and I have talked with some of the
neighbors and told them that that is what I - I mean ideally that
is my best situation would be to have a family in there because
they are really your best tenants and I - you know, it is a great �
�
neighborhood - Belle Sherman - and there is still a lot of kids
in that neighborhood, which is surprising to me because I grew op
there myself - to see - there still is a lot of - it is nice it |
\
has retained that character - it hasn ' t turned into a lot of col- '
(
le8e students - heavy density of college students although the .
close surrounding area has - I mean Linden Avenue - they are '
creeping down - they are creeping in on that neighborhood but I '
^
don ' t think that my proposal is going to create any kind of -
`
affect the stability of the neighborhood, is what I am trying to
say,,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*# Further questions?
/
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE44 `
MR, HEAVER*+ On this exchange between you and the Building
Commissioner - do you disagree that if the variance were granted
for a one-bedroom apartment, that the main hoose, if you will
accept that description, would not be occupied by more than three
unrelated persons?
SECRETARY HOARD*+ Yes that is what it says,
MR* LOPINTO'4 So I am correct?
SECRETARY HOARD40 If it is owner-occopied, I guess if you are
there half the year it is owner-occopied. Each unit may be
occupied by an individual or a family plus not more than one
unrelated occupant except that if one unit is occupied by a
single individual the other may be occupied by no more than three
persons if unrelated*
MR, WEAVER'* As I see that, that pots rather substantial restric-
tions upon this - the use and occupancy of this dwelling if the �
variance is granted. The Ordinance itself limits the occupancy
\
of both apartments and describes that one of them be occupied by
i
the owner ,
MR. LOPINTO*+ But because in my floor plan that I submitted with .
the appeal , if it is not owner-occupied, one unit may be no lar- '
8er than fifty percent of the floor area of the other and each '
unit may be occupied by no more than two persons, if unrelated .
-which would be the same situation if it was not owner-occopied^
Because my floor plans show that the smaller apartment is less
than fifty percent of the floor space of the other apartment
-then that would mean that I would be required to rent it to a
/ 7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE'* 46
family which is exactly the situation I ' m looking for - so if the
variance was - is accepted, then the - you see, let me give you a
little history - when I wanted to purchase the house, I read -be-
cause I am a professional builder , I know the Code, I read all
the things that I would be required to do and especially went
through all the square footage, The one thing that I did over-
look was the fact that on corner lots in residential districts,
buildings most be erected so the yard space and public streets
shall conform to the minimum front yard requirements of said res-
idential district , That ' s the one thing that I overlooked. So I
have taken the time to make my floor plans and everything so that
if the variance - if I am given a variance, I will not be really
restricted by the occupancy situation, I will conform to it*
MR* WEAVER'* Well go back to unrelated. I was wondering whether
we all understood what we are talking aboot. Never mind the fam-
ily at the moment , Take this as an apartment and a dwelling, as
you have proposed and if we - our selection process ends op with
unrelated persons - the maximum occupancy could be - with the
owner in one apartment, could be three unrelated persons in the
other apartment.
MR. LOPINTO'f Correct.
MR. AEAVER'+ And if the owner isn ' t there it never Sets better
than two and two^
MR. LOPINTO'f That ' s the way it reads, unless it ' s a family^
MR. WEAVER** Correct.
MR, LOPINT0*0 Because then we are away from the onrelated^
/
�
'
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACF^ ,
MR, NEAVER*4 I agree. So the mail here indicates some concern in
the neighborhood that this might 8o to a number of unrelated
persons and I' m saying, that as I understand your - if granted a
variance with the design that you propose, that the maximum
occupancy by unrelated persons would be four people^
MR, LOPINTO*f Four people in the entire hoose^
MR^ WEAVER'+ The whole smear , yes*
MR ^ LOPINTO'+ Yes, that is what it would be.
SECRETARY HOARD'# Either way you cot it.
MR* WEAVER'* Any way you want to ring it.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Further questions? Thank you Mike, Is there
anyone else who would like to speak in favor of granting this
variance? (no one) Is there anyone who would like to speak in
opposition to granting the variance? (no one) That being the
case, it ' s ours, Has everyone seen all the mail?
SECRETARY HOARD** You did see the one that arrived today asking
that it be substituted for the earlier one?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ Why don ' t we read that just because it was so �
recent* Because I think it ' s ^ , ^ �
SECRETARY HOARD'* You want me to read the letter? '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*f Yes* Otherwise
SECRETARY HOARD*+ This is from Frederick and Mary Ahl , 305 Mit- '
chell Street, "Dear Board Members'# We would like to register �
our objection to the zoning variance to area regulations filed by
Michael Lo Pinto (Appeal #1631 ) with regard to his property at
304 Mitchell Street. We now believe we made a serious error in
-
['74 MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE* 48
not protesting the variance granted to the similar application by
the former owners of the hoose next door to Mr , Lo Pinto ' s, who
said they simply wanted to add an apartment for a relative. When
the variance was granted, they promptly sold the property to the
present owner who has converted the hoose into a multiple dwell-
ing, There is no reason to anticipate that the situation will
proceed any differently if the variance is granted to the owner
of 304 Mitchell Street. If the hoose were going to be owner oc-
cupied with an income apartment, the owner would not have to ap-
ply for this particular variance, We therefore wonder whether
the owner has recently moved into the hoose only to secure this
variance so that the property may subsequently be used as a mul-
tiple dwelling* Prior to June 1st the hoose was occupied by stu-
dents* Very little attempt was made to ensure even minimal op-
keep outside the hoose until the owner became resident, This
variance, if granted, threatens to change the character of our
neighborhood substantially - from single family, residential
�
dwellings to multiple dwelling, rental properties* These changes
affect not only our property values, but more importantly, our
quality of life* Therefore, we urge the Board of Zoning Appeals
to reject this application, Thank you for your kind attention to
our objections. Yours sincerely, /s/ Frederick and Mary Ahl , "
I ' d like to point out that the hoose next door is in a different
zone^ It is in the R2 zone^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ Further comment? Questions? I would only like
to note, again, the public comment and the Board discussion of
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*# /
the Planning and Development Board which was to recommend denial ,
`
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE4+ )
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO . 1631 304 MITCHELL STREET
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*4 Although I am not within that two hundred feet
notice, living down the street I can ' t help but in general agree
with the comment that Councilman Romanowski made that the long
range planning goals for neighborhood could be threatened if a
variance were granted,
MR, NEAVER*+ Mr . Chairman, what on earth did the Alderman mean?
'
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'f Well I think, ^ ^
MR^ NEAVER*+ I haven ' t heard what those long range plans were for
the neighborhood.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** Well that ' s true but I would thiuk that by
virtue of the discussion that has been going on in Common
Council , to hold down traffic difficulties and student density
that the Council is in general aware of the difficulties and
wanting in a sense to restrain them or contain them *
MR ^ WEAVER'4 Well this could go on all night but I - four people
in a four bedroom hoose is a threat to the neighborhood? And, if
that is a long range planning goal , we are in more trouble than I
thought we were , not as a Zoning Board, but as a Community. How
on earth - if that is too dense, I don ' t know - we ' ll have to pot
in the Ordinance that at least one bedroom in all hooses shall
remain vacant or something of the sort - make sore we are not to
grant it - I can ' t see that that is an over-utilization and this
is an area variance, not a use variance. Your comment implys
�
notwithstanding that it is in your neighborhood, your comment im-
' plys that an approved use in an R1b district is a threat to the
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ 51
Community . I can ' t see a long range anything,
MS. JOHNSON*+ Well there definitely seems to be some neighborhood
opposition, '
MR. WEAVER'# Correct,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN't And I think the neighborhood opposition is in
8eneral , sensitive to the density problem - there has been an
increase in density in that neighborhood. Whether or not it may
be an approved use ^ ^ , ^
MS, FARRELL! But we are not voting on use here we are voting on
an area variance .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ I am not saying or suggesting that we are but I
think the density question in any number of instances by virtue
of traffic congestion and by virtue of parking has been a concern
as well as neighborhood opposition^
MS. FARRELL** The parking is provided for him, right?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN44 That ' s right. It is perfectly within^ ^ .
MR. WEAVER** It meets the Ordinance on parking.
MS* FARRELL'+ The only thing is the one side yard - front yard
setback,
SECRETARY HOARD'* I think you have to look at what the Ordinance
says for the criteria of the use.
MR, WEAVER*+ Nell , to carry just - please - one comment forther ^
This implys that if - by whatever force - there is enough
neighborhood opposition, never mind the Ordinance - we ' ll ignore
the Ordinance and we ' ll have zoning by acclamation *
MR, SCHWAB** That is over-stated, . ^
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE� =7
MR^ WEAVER** I intended to over state it, trying to get your
attention.
MR, SCHNAB� The Ordinance says you can ' t do this. Well the
Ordinance says you have to get a variance from the Ordinance.
MR. WEAVER** And he has to prove practical difficulty .
'
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE� 53 `
DECISION ON APPEAL NO * 1631 304 MITCHELL STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of Michael
LoPinto for an area variance to permit the conversion of the
single family dwelling at 304 Mitchell Street to a single family
dwelling with an apartment, The decision of the Board was as
follows�
MR, NEAVER� I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 16314
MS, JOHNSON� I second the motion* ,
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT�
/
1 ) An area variance is required because of the need to meet the
front yard requirements on Delaware Avenue, which cannot be
met without demolition of the building or an unreasonable
moving of the building thirteen feet ( 13 ' ) to the west^ �
|
|
2) The granting of the variance would preserve the nature of the
�
neighborhood in that there are, in the Ordinance, sufficient
restrictions on total occupancy that would indicate no other
deficiencies would be obtained as per the Ordinance as now
written.
VOTE� 4 YES; 1 NO; 1 ABSTENTION VARIANCE GRANTED
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE� 54
MORE DISCUSSION ON APPEAL 1631 AFTER THE VOTE WAS TAKEN
MR, BOOTH� May I just say something quickly? I have very
consciously not talked with any of you about this variance. I
feel badly that it was granted in terms of being a resident of
that area but I will say that the concern in the neighborhood, '
I think, goes more to what the Ordinance says - that it encourage
this kind of conversion and I think there is an increase in the
amount of concern about that problem. That ' s not something that
this Board can really do something with.
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE4+ `
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: May we have the next case?
SECRETARY HOARD*+ The next case is APPEAL NO^ 1632 315-17 NORTH
MEADOW STREET AND 619 NEST COURT STREET
Appeal of Gloria Knoppenber8 for a use variance
under Section 30 ^257 Column 2 and an area variance
for deficient setbacks for a front yard and the
rear yard under Section 30,251 Columns 11 and 14
of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the combining
of two lots at 315-17 North Meadow Street (Angelos
Dry Cleaners) and 619 Nest Court Street and en-
larging the business use into a residential use
district. The properties are located in B2a (bus-
iness) and R2b (Residential , one- and two-family)
Use Districts and under Section 30^57 the appel-
lant most obtain a use variance for the business
expansion into the R2b zone, as well as area vari-
ances for the deficient setbacks before a building
permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued
for the proposed project.
MR, NINN*+ I am Philip Winn and with me is Gloria Knoppenbor8 and
her husband Leland is also here* Mrs* Knoppenbor8 is the owner
of the property at 315-317 N. Meadow Street that for many years
has been the location of Angelo Dry Cleaners . Gloria ' s parents
�
were the owners of that since in the late ' 40 ' s^ Recently the '
Knoppenbor8s bought the property at 617 and 619 N, Court Street^
Those properties are in a R2b zone. Angelo ' s itself is in a B2a
zone* Basically what is proposed - perhaps it would be easier if
I got out the enlarged map - is to expand the easterly line of
the present Angelo ' s boildin8 approximately twenty feet to the
north and square off the building* There will be a second floor
' erected on the area which is the unshaded area* Basically the
north property line presently runs and includes this jog, its
apposition to that is already zoned commercial . The request is
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE*. '
to extend that line a little bit to the north so this building
can be constructed. There are three areas where a variance will
be considered. One is the frontage, that relates to the proper-
ty at 619 W. Court Street, No changes are anticipated or pro-
posed with respect to that building, it is used for residential
housing now, The only change will be some upgraded improvement
of that boildin84 It is not the applicants intention to remove
it, destroy it, just to improve it^ The frontage variance is
required because the porch on the building, which has been there
for a long time, is within ten feet of the front lot line, There .
is very little that can be done about that and there is no re- '
qoest to extend that problem, The rear yard is another area re- .
qoirin8 consideration* The premises at 315-317 N^ Meadow do not '
comply with the rear line requirement of the Ordinance. Basical-
ly as a note, the building is constructed to the back line, It .
has been osed 'for commercial purposes since 1948 or 49, part of
it originally as a gas station - it has always been that way^
With the common ownership now, in the Knoppenbor8 ' s, of both 315
and 317 and the N^ Court Street properties, I think and perhaps
Mr . Hoard can comment on that, that the rear yard limitational
problem might have eliminated itself ^ Use is the obviously the
area concern, both to this Board and to the Knoppenborgs^ For
almost twenty years the property in the back hasbeen used for
commercial purposes already* For at least eight years* . .
MR, BOOTH+* What do you mean the property at the back?
MR. NINN4+ The property to the rear of 617-619 has been used
RZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE'4 57
for parking commercial vehicles - ingress and egress to Angelos.
MR* BOOTH*# Do you have a permit for that or is that a
preexisting zoning or what?
MR* AINN'+ I ' m not entirely sore^ Looking at the zoning map I am
somewhat, ^ ^
MRS* KNUPPENBURC'4 That back corner was zoned commercial ^
MR^ AINN'# There is a thirty-three by fifty-three foot strip that
I believe is zoned commercial at this time.
MR, BOOTH'# That ' s the jo8^ , ^
MR* NINN*# That ' s the jo8^ I believe that is the jog that is
shown on the map, although I am somewhat* * *
MS^ FARRELL'# Is that right Tom?
MR, BOOTH'* There is clearly a jo8^
MR^ NINN*) The one unique situation about the property is that it
is only sixty-six feet deep if we rely on the old boundary line° �
with the addition of perhaps four point nine feet for the present
southeasterly part - portion of the boildinS. The property in
the surrounding area - the commercial zone extends ninety feet
-one hundred and ten feet and more in most of those areas, The
problem here is we are faced with no room for expansion - limited
area unique to this site. The reasons for doing this*4 basically
cannot satisfactorily service customers now^ There are many cus-
tomers who store their clothing for long periods of time. There
is not room for the storage and there never has been. One option
is to store it on the ceiling and that is what -is done now, The
problem with that is you need ventilation because of all the
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE*. �
steam in the building so the - otherwise (unintelligible) various
risks, damage to the clothes - the alternative that is proposed
is that a second floor be added on to the building* So for ease
of construction, safety, it is proposed to square off the boild-
ing^ A separate boiler room is basically going to take op this
. area labelled area of addition in the north corner of the proper-
ty^ That boiler room is required to be blocked in, another rea-
son for squaring it off,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'* Questions?
MR* BOOTH'+ Have you considered putting a second floor on the
portion here that is white?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Former gas station on the corner?
MS, KNUPPENBURC'# That is way away from our present boiler and
where our steam is located. That is where the, that is our call
' office. It wouldn ' t really be practical to have it there over
where the people are coming in and going out* Back here where
our washing machines are - where we can get our stuff to 8o op is
a bigger area - we need every inch we can get, We started out
seven years ago when Dad bought the property from Angela
Paolan8eli , it was Mr * and Mrs. PaolanSeli and two employees. We
now employ twenty-three, twenty-four people - just elbow room we
need a lot of^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# Do you anticipate increasing the number of
people that would be working there, by virtue of that second
story?
MS, KNUPPENBURC'f Well , yes, definitely. In that^ ^ ,
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE'+' �9
MR. NINN+* Is it for efficiency or for ^ ^ ^
MS, KNUPPENBURC*+ Efficiency, safety and there are a lot of
clothes and they cannot be down there on that ceiling any longer .
There is - nobody can work around them, they are bumping into
them and there is no room for the air flow^ We are putting in a
big ceiling fan to take the heat out which will help the problem
there^ But if we leave the clothes hanging there, then the ceil-
ing fan is going to be blocked.
MR^ BOOTH #+ How many people work there at one time?
MS, KNUPPENBURC4+ Now? There most be at least almost twenty -
fifteen to twenty people in the building all the time^
MS. FARRELL*+ I have a question, If the variance is granted,
does this mean that this whole property then is commercially
zoned, I mean if it has got a commercial variance?
SECRETARY HOARD+* That the adjacent property?
MS^ FARRELL'+ Yes^
SECRETARY HOARD** No*
MS, FARRELL*# What does it mean then?
SECRETARY HOARD*+ You would only be granting a variance for what
is there,
MS^ FARRELL'+ For what is where?
SECRETARY HOARD*+ Well for what they are asking for . This
' encroachment (pointing to diagram)
MS, FARRELL'# Okay* It doesn ' t change^ ^
SECRETARY HOARD++ It doesn ' t change the zoning of that lot unless
you specifically grant it^
' -A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 60
MS. FARRELL*4 But this down here is already parking or whatever .
MR. AINN*+ That is already commercial . That back portion - the
southerly portion is already commercial .
MS. FARRELL'* Okay, so it would be adding this much into the
commercial ^ ^ ^ °
MR, NIMN'4 I ' m not entirely sore, the Knoppenbor8s seem to think
that that was all done with City approval , by the PaolanSeli ' s.
I don ' t think Mr . Hoard has found anything but I don ' t know^
SECRETARY HOARD'* That is correct.
MR, NINN'4 What we are really concerned about is extending this
line down to there and perhaps a two to three feet by twenty
feet, I would guess, back or ten feet, rather ,
MS. FARRELL4+ If you can ' t do that, would you still fill in that
little bit there and 8o straight back through here?
MR^ NINN*f I ' m sorry, I didn ' t follow yoo^
MS* KNUPPENBURG'* It isn ' t large enough for a boiler room and
that particular boiler room is not going to be, hopefully, in
use* We have one over here but we have to have that one totally
enclosed by blocks to meet the Ordinances and insurance - in case
it explodes - that type of thing, it has to be in blocks. And
that one is just an auxiliary in case the other one breaks down,
we would be shot down anywhere from three days to a week to re-
place it* That one would keep os, at least putting out shirts
and dry cleaning.
MS, FARRELL'# Do boiler rooms have to be on the first floor?
MS . KNUPPENBURC4+ I don ' t know.
p7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 61
MR, KNUPPENBURC� They don ' t have to be but mechanically-wise,
they should be,
MS . KNUPPENBURC� They are very expensive to be on the second
floor .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� By virtue of their weight, Tracy,
MR. BOOTH** What is the current use of the buildings on Nest
Court Street which you purchased?
MS * KNUPPENBURG4+ This one?
MR. BOOTH � Yes, you purchased two of them right?
MS. KNUPPENBURC� Yes, they are both hooses now^
MR, BOOTH� People are living in them?
MS . KNUPPENBURC*+ Yes. And this one has a porch off the back,
that part is a porch that they ose^ The other one is fenced in
approximately to here and they have their garden next to it right
there ^ And hopefully they will - the rent will pay for that.
MS, FARRELL* So this Sets the building within how many feet of
that hoose?
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN� The scale is right down here Tracy, It would
be about four and one-half to five feet,
MR. NINN� Basically it is not getting any closer - it is
extending one line about the same distance, approximately four to
five feet, which it is now.
MS, KNUPPENBURC� It is farther away here than it is here, I
think, (pointing to diaSram) ^
'
MS . FARRELL� Although it is going to add another story there too
so it is going to ^ ^ ^
�
7!7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*# 62
MR. HINN*# Second story, I believe is permitted in that area -
the use is permitted* The question is whether a two foot
extension will be allowed^
MS* KNUPPENBURC'f They took out the garage back a few years ago
and dad turned that into - pot a connector in there,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*f Further questions?
MR* SCHNAB'+ So you are basically wanting to do this because the
business is expanding, this won ' t work in a smaller place, is
that right?
MR, NIMN'+ And to service existing customers*
MS* KNUPPENBURG*+ Righty yes,
MR, NINN*4 Is the major concern.
MS, KNUPPENBURG'f The people that are there and for the safety of
the employees,
MR^ SCHWAB*+ It has been done that way for - since the late 40 ' s,
with the clothes on the same floor and that type of thing? .
�
MS, KNUPPENBURG'f No, the business has expanded tremendously in
that period of time. I don' t have the figures, I don ' t know what
An8elo ' s income was, I know in the last seven years, since my
father bought it, it has tripled and the poundage of clothes that
goes through there is tremendoos^
MR^ KNUPPENBURG** It is more of a storage use than a heat problem
to keep our people comfortable in there, so we can get the
clothes - (unintelligible) like this where you have clothes
.
hanging - we don ' t want them there (unintelligible) op in this
area^
"7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 63
MS, KNUPPENBURC** You have got all that steam so you have to have
the high ceiling to allow it to go op,
MR. KNUPPENBURG4+ Because those people are going to - you know -
'
it is too hot, We just need more room. If it means anything,
these two hooses also have a lot of violations and - I don ' t know
what my record is with Mr . Hoard, but usually we fix them op
eventually.
MS, KNUPPENBURC '* We hope to fix them,
MR. BOOTH*# Why not expand the garage building toward the street,
can you do that?
MS* KNUPPENBURG4+ This way?
MR. BOOTH** No, toward the - Meadow Street^
MS. KNUPPENBURC'+ Nell , we would lose our parking.
MR. KNUPPENBURC++ We thought about that,
MR * BOOTH'* How much parking do you have there?
MS. KNUPPENBURC'# We ' ve got enough room so the people can come in �
and go out this way because backing out on Meadow Street is a
problem* They can back out and come forward this way or So
around. This is actually wrong, they So - there is four there
-like that and then there is about three over here and if we come
back ootr then we will have the same problem that we had when
. Angelo ' s was over here - when they had to come in like this and
' it was a real bad problem,
MR. KNUPPENBURG'f And way back when that actual building - right
here - was moved back because it was too close to the street -
when they pot 13 in there^
'
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 64
MR. BOOTH*# Where do your twenty employees at a time park? Are
they the people that park in the back?
MS. KNUPPENBURG44 Some of them walk, which is nice, and yes they
do park in back or back in here in that commercial - the
neighbors haven ' t minded^ Mrs,, Scalia said that they preferred
it to all those septic tank trocks^ And they are out of there at
six o ' clock - actually most of them are out at four thirty, there
is only a few that stay until six, And they come in in the
morning at eight so we are not a noise problem the way it was
when he cranked his trucks op at five o ' clock in the morning*
So nobody has minded us at all ^
MR. KNUPpENBURG'* We ' ve had no problems with the people down
there whatsoever as a matter of fact we ' ve had one or two
letters?
MS. KNUPPEN8URC*f Well Nezveski was for it, Mrs* Scalia ' s sister
is sick so she couldn ' t come and tell you how she liked it*
MR, NINN*+ To follow op on your question, the main reason is
parking and secondr would be that you would really be
interferring with that hoose at 619, another story right op along
the entire side and the third would be the architect decided this
was the most feasible and I guess the strongest support system
underneath which would be needed to construct a second story .
MR, WEAVER'* As a very general thing, but the Board has been ex-
posed to this Meadow Street problem before in that somebody drew
some lines that, as he described the eastern extremity of that
business zone down there without - whether they went along the
/ 7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 65
existing property lines and in so doing a whole lot of that ter-
ritory is zoned for commercial use but it is not deep enough to
accommodate a reasonable commercial utilization and in fact if
there were - I am real concerned with the planning there, it
would seem to me that the zone limits would be further east^ One
of the recent difficulties was in the Byrne Dairy case, it re-
quired, in order to get a decent depth in from that very busy
street, required to Sive them more land, more depth in order to
develop it^ The two are incompatible - there is always that fa- .
moos line between business and the residential zone and where it
ought to be is certainly open for dispute but practical - that �
depth of lot for a commercial use is pretty tiny, �
MR* KNUPPENBURG'# Most of the hooses down there, in reason, need
to have a little improving anyway^ ^ ^ �
MS, KNUPPENBURC'# The Italian Carry-out, which is right across '
Court Street from os, they 8o back to here. '
MR, AINN4+ Guesstimating from the tax map, looking at the
property next south, would be one hundred feet - commercial zone
would be one hundred and ten feet deep and here, I guess it is
sixty six point two, but it is hard to determine^ ^ ^
MR, NEAVER'# And imagine what you can do with it, if you expect
people to arrive by aotomobile^
. MR. NINN'# And I think Byrne Dairy is (unintelligible)
'
MR, WEAVER'* They had to take in one residential property in
order to accommodate that*
MS. FARRELL'+ I thought it was two*
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 66
MR, NEAVER'+ Well one was on^ ^ ^
MS* FARRELL'# Two on Meadow Street? ^ ^ ~
MR. BOOTH'+ Well the zoning map shows that the - except for your
jog - the depth of the business district (unintelligible) stops
there^
MR. AINN++ Well comparing the tax maps and property lines it is
not^
MR* BOOTH'* You are looking at the - what the ownership map
shows?
MR, NINN** Right and I believe the Ordinance^ , ^
MR^ BOOTH*+ You
are looking at the zoning map? .
MS. FARRELL*+ Yes.
MR. BOOT ' *+ The zoning map shows this district has the same
boundary across there, except for that jog.
MR, NINN*# Ibelieve the Zoning Ordinance says (unintelligible)
the line follows the property lines (unintelligible) '
'
SECRETARY HOARD** It is the old Valentine - you know^ ^ ^ ^ �
MR, BOOTH*+ I ' m asking, I ' m not saying - I ' m saying what the map
�
shows. Where is the line in fact, along that section of North
Meadow Street?
MR, WEAVER'* Wherever we say it is,
SECRETARY HOARD4+ It appears to follow the^ , , well Charlie has
'
got the answer . It ' s the back property lines.
MR^ SCHWAB'* So you are saying, at least in the immediate area
your property is oniqoely^ ^ ^ ,
MR, NINN*+ I believe so^
'
� '74 MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*. 67
MS* KNUPPENBURC*+ All I want is a few feet°
MR, BOOTH*+ Are these commercial uses, they aren ' t are they?
MS. KNUPPENBURC** No*
MR. BOOTH'* They are all hooses?
MS, KNUPPENBURC'* Yes. But they are zoned commercial ,
MR. NINN'+ They are all zoned commercial .
MR. NEAVER*+ Did somebody say long range planning - says that
this ought to be business (unintelligible)
MR, BOOTH'# You know what I ' ll bet, that ' s the 'oS^
MS, FARRELL'# That ' s the jog.
MR* AINN'* I ' m looking at the properties in the next block up.
MS. KNUPPENBURC'* See that little piece right there? That ' s the
part that he had zoned - that he Sot changed to commercial so
that he could park his trucks there*
MS ^ FARRELL*+ Righty but I think on the zoning map, this is the
part that shows os the jog.
MR* NINN*# I think that is the part that shows op^
MS. FARRELL'# Because that is bigger ,
MR. NINN*+ It isn ' t large enough to reproduce*
SECRETARY HOARD+* But that in back of the original cleaners
building was used commercially when I came here,
MS^ FARRELL'* What this little bit here?
SECRETARY HOARD'+ Yes. In fact it has been for construction - he
parked his septic tank cleaning trucks in there,
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*, Further questions? Are we familiar enough with
the maps? Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** �
speak in favor of granting the variance? (no one) Is there
anyone who would like to speak in opposition to granting the
variance? (no one) That being the case, it is ours, Do I hear
a motion?
'
~rA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ 69
APPEAL NO. 1632 315-317 N^ MEADOW STREET AND 619 N. COURT
STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Leland and
Gloria Knuppenborg for use and area variances to permit the
combining of two lots at 315-317 North Meadow Street (Angelos Dry
Cleaners) and 619 Nest Court Street and enlarging the business
use into a residential use district* The decision of the Board
was as follows*.
MR^ SCHAAB*# I move that the Board grant the area and use
variances requested in appeal number 1632^
MR, WEAVER*+ I second the motion,
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT*+
1 ) The business has expanded substantially now, necessitating
additional space,
2) The area that is zoned commercial is uniquely small in depth
on this property,
3) The appellant has shown undue hardship to continue with their
expanding business in the existing size building.
4) The area deficiencies in front and rear yard depth has an
encroachment of approximately two feet (2 ' ) which is
exceedingly minor ,
VOTE4* 5 YES; 1 NO GRANTED
`
�-- �
/ 'A MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 70
SECRETARY HOARD'+ The next appeal is APPEAL NUMBER 1633 119
WEST GREEN STREET
Appeal of John Bodine (Dick Nilsen Real Estate,
Inc* ) for an area variance for deficient off-street
parking and a deficient setback for one side yard,
under Section 30^259 Columns 4 and 13 of the Zoning
Ordinance, to permit the removal of the one story
portion of the office building at 119 Nest Green
Street (Dick Nilsen Real Estate) and replacement
with a larger two story addition for expansion of
the existing business* The property is located in
a B1a (business-offices) Use District where the
proposed use is permitted; however under Sections
30^49 and 30^57 the appellant most obtain an area
variance for the listed deficiencies before a boil-
ding permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be is-
sued for the proposed addition*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** Identify yourself?
MR. BODINE#* My name is John Bodine, I am the owner of Dick Wil-
sen Real Estate^ In 1969 Dick Wilsen bought the present building
at 119 N^ Green Street and converted it to office space for the
real estate bosiness^ We have occupied that since 1969^ In the
first couple of years there were some tenants in there, an insur-
ance office and, I believe, an architect, and in 1979 I bought
the business from Dick and the building* We have grown so that
our office is folly occupied now^ We have not had any other ten-
ants in there since 1976 or 1977 and we find that we are in a
position where we need some additional office space within the
building* We have thirty licensed people who work out of the
office, if any of you are familiar with the real estate business
.
you know that most real estate people do not spend the majority
' of their time in the office, so if you came into the office at
any particular time, there would probably be somewhere between
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE4* /
five and ten or twelve people there and that would include our
office staff which is an office manager , myself and a full time
secretary, We have about twelve or thirteen parking spaces now.
What we would like to do to improve the efficiency of the office '
`
is provide each of the sales people with sufficient space so that '
they have a desk space for their books and a place to keep their
letters and their files and things like that, is to tear off two
sections of the building in the back that are one story struc-
tures, they are built on a stone foundations, they are not very '
'
well constructed - we would like to replace them with a new two- '
story structure that would be in keeping with the rest of the
`
boildin8^ We would like to have it natural wood siding, flat- '
^
board siding, and matching the detail work* have the windows .
"
match the rest of the building, In order to do that we would
like to build to the existing foundation line of those two struc-
tures in the back which is one foot from the property line so it .
would mean that we would be very close* The structure to the '
east of os" which is the Wilkinson building, is about fifteen '
`
feet from that property line so there is not another building ^
right adjacent to it on the next property, The two-story addi-
tion would have one office on the first floor and a conference .
`
room and an entryway^ The stairway going op to the second floor .
and we would have three office spaces on the second floor and .
then have it attached to the existing building on both the first
and second floor ^ We would also like to have a basement under-
neath that~ The basement would be a place where we could store '
`
^
/
`
'7A MINUTES 7/8/85
PAGE* 72
our signs and things like that, and be able to keep supplies.
Right now the basement space for the existing building has a dirt
floor and it is not very conducive for staring things in* I
think everyone should have a copy of the survey of the property
which shows the location of the building on the property* Randy
Hatcher has drawn some schematics for os and this shows the .
structure and the orange part here is what is the existing part
of the building that we would be tearing off. It is one-story,
there is a break in the roof line where that line is across the
middle and we would be replacing it by this shaded area, which
would be a two story structure* We are going to be deficient in
parking - we will have, based on the architects measurements of
the existing building and the additionr thirty-eight hundred and
nineteen square feet. That would require, under the Ordinance,
sixteen parking spaces and in my application I said seventeen
because we had estimated what our square footage was. It came
out to over four thousand so based on his measurements of the
building 't would be thirty-eight hundred and nineteen square �
feet which would require sixteen spaces and I think that each of
you should have two separate parking plans, both are insuffi-
cient. We are required to have sixteen spaces, in parking plan
number one it shows os with eleven spaces* In parking plan num-
ber one we would be retaining two flowering crab trees ^ If any
of you have been over to the building and looked at the building,
on the left side of the building there are two flowering crabs
that are probably ten or twelve inches in diameter , maybe a lit-
-
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ �
tle bit bigger than that and about fifteen, eighteen feet hi8h.
It seems to me that they add a lot to the building, we have some
flowers underneath and things, but if we had to we could tear
those out and that would give us fourteen spaces which are shown
on parking plan number two . I believe you should also have both
north and south elevations.
MS. FARRELL** You need sixteen spaces, and if you pot those extra
in you would still need two more?
MR* B8DINE'* We would still be two short, that ' s right * I be-
lieve that we meet all the other requirements of the Zoning Ordi-
nance for the addition^ Our other side yard would be at least
ten feet, the front yard five feet, the rear yard at least twenty
feet and we would not have more than fifty percent of the lot
covered. The part of the building that we are replacing is very
pour condition, the siding is, some of it has started to rot, It
is on an old stone foundation which is not very 800d^ We have
trouble heating those portions of the boildinS. Also it would
make the work flow and the traffic flow within our building much
more conducive to our operation from what it is now,
MR* BOOTH4# I walked in there today, I think there were eleven or .
twelve cars and it was absolutely jammed, packed* I am amazed
that you can get out of there. You most have to take a driving
test to get out of there^
MR. BODINE*4 Well one thing, we have some people that are not
great parkers and will poll in and park right in the middle of
the parking lot ^ As part of our renovations we would be paving
\
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE! 1,
the parking lot and striping it * I think that would help so that
people would park in specific spaces rather than just kind of
helter skelter because it is not really defined now,
CHAIRMAN TQMLAN'# Have you taken any steps to secure parking
anywhere else in the vicinity by virtue of a lease or agreement?
MR . BODINE� No the places that would be relatively close for os°
I don ' t think are available. I was considering approaching the
Ramada Inn but I was under the impression that the Ramada was ''
short of parking , I thought that they had had to have a parking
variance when they built their tower , if I remember righty I
remember getting notices * So I don ' t think they could lease os
five spaces^
SECRETARY HOARD** They didn ' t get their variance, '
MR~ BODINE*+ We are only one space away or one lot away from a
business zone that does not require any parking and the building
next to os only has two parking spaces that has been used by �
Crossmore and Morris, I know that that is not justification for
os complying or not complying with the Zoning Ordinance but nor-
mally our people have sufficient parking either within the lot,
or if customers come to the office there is good on-street park-
ing is normally not filled* There is meter parking in front of
the building. We are also less than five hundred feet from two
City parking garages and I - again I realize those cannot be
counted as meeting our parking requirements but our people do not
have a problem parking at the building site or near the building
site*
[7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 75 '
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*# Further questions?
MR. WEAVER** I am interested in one thing, the east extension of
the proposed new building addition goes into the side yard
further than the basic hoose?
MR . BODINE** Right *
MR, NEAVER'+ The reason for that expansion over into that side
yard is^ ^ ^
MR^ BODINE'+ That is really dead space, where the rest of the
building is, if you will look at the survey map^ If you were to
walk down that side of the building, it tends to be an area that i
just grows op in weeds. If I felt it could be landscaped and add
something to the building, I would try to set back addition in
the back but right now the existing structure does So to one foot
from the lot line^ I would like to use that space, if we could,
because it would be wasted space^
MR* NEAVER'+ You are talking about the existing one story?
MR^ BODIME*+ That is correct,
MR^ HEAVER*+ But the original hoose, 119, what is the dimension '
'
of that side yard? �
MR^ BODINE+# The main part of the hoose on that side of the
building is probably four or five feet, okay? And there is a -
not really a bay window, there is a one-story structure that
sticks out on the first floor , it does not have a foundation
underneath it and that ' s the dotted in portion which you see
about half way back on the structure*
MR^ NEAVER'+ As a partial solution to the parking problem,
`
�
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 76
reduction in the size of that addition, it would be accomplished
by observing the side yard requirement with the Ordinance and
would get you closer to meeting the parking requirement - do you
know, has that been considered? Do you know whether that ' s a^ ^
MR* BODINE*+ I' m not clear on that. What do you mean by. .
MR^ WEAVER! I ' ll make a new proposal to you right now,
MR, BODINE*� By making the addition smaller , * *
`
MR, NEAVER'# Narrower and observing the east side yard* Do you
know what the result in square footage would be in the required
parking? Four or five feet by ^ ^
MR^ BODINE++ I would guess that it would reduce it by about one
hundred square feet on each floor which would be about two
hundred square feet,
MR^ WEAVER'* In terms of parking spaces^ ^ ^
SECRETARY HOARD** It would reduce it by how many square feet?
MR^ BODINE*+ It would reduce it by about two hundred square feet
and that would bring
the total square footage down to about
thirty-six hundred square feet - for that we would be required to
have I believe fifteen parking spaces so we would still be one or
more short, depending on which parking plan^
MS. JOHNSON'* Your business is Srowingr are you going to have
more people working?
MR^ BODINE'+ We ' ll probably not have significantly more people
than we have there now. At some point in the next two or three
' years we ' d like to open a second office, It depends on what
business is. I don ' t really know. I wouldn ' t anticipate that we
`
MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 77
would have many more than that, if you have an office with more
than about thirty people, it does not work real well as a real
estate office^ _
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN; Further questions? Thank you. Is there anyone
else who would like to speak in favor of granting this variance?
(no one) Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition?
(no one) That being the case^ ^ ^
�
�
�
�
'
MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*# 78
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO, 1633 119 NEST GREEN STREET
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*4 Charlie had begun a discussion which tackled
the question, at least in m9 mind, and I ' ll pot it on the table,
and that is whether in fact the size of the thing doesn ' t posh,
or just 8o slightly beyond what would seem to be - I ' d like a
consensus here - comfortable addition with respect to all of its
nonconforming aspects which are really the parking, larSely^
There is nothing you can pot your finger on - of courser that is
linked back to the size itself, square footage.
MR, WEAVER'# Yes , also the side yard, Column 13, deficiency as
being exacerbated by a very substantial amount*
MR, BOOTH'# Particularly because the existing piece is just a '
little addition*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** A little notch, yes,
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** /
DECISION ON APPEAL NO* 1633 119 NEST GREEN STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of John Bodine
for an area variance to permit the removal of the one story
portion of the office building at 119 Nest Green street and
replacement with a larger two story addition for expansion of the
existing business. The decision of the Board was as follows*#
MR, BOOTH** I move that the Board deny the area variance
requested in appeal number 1633,
MR, SCHNAB*+ I second the motion,
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT4*
1 ) The proposed development will involve a substantial parking
variance which does not appear to be either necessary or
desirable in terms of the use of surrounding properties*
2) The proposed development will exacerbate substantially the
side yard setback problem that currently exists on this
property^
3) It appears that the owners have some reasonable alternatives
for reducing both the parking variance and the side yard
setback variance.
VOTE*# 5 YES; 1 NO DENIED
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*' 80 _
SECRETARY HOARD*+ The next appeal is APPEAL NO. 1634 145 LINN
STREET
Appeal of Carmen and Virginia Canestaru for a use
variance under Section 30^25, Column 2, and an area
variance for deficient lot width under Section 30^25,
Column 7 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the con-
version of the two-family dwelling at 145 Linn Street
to a cooperative dwelling for one to five unrelated
individuals . The property is located in an R2b (Res-
idential , one- and two-family dwellings) Use District
in which a cooperative dwelling is not a permitted
use; therefore under Sections 30^49 and 30^57 of the
Zoning Ordinance the appellants most obtain a use
variance for the proposed use as well as an area var-
iance for the deficient lot width before a building
permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for
the proposed conversion.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Begin by identifying yourself .
MR. CANESTARO*# I ' m Carmen Canestaro, this is my wife Virginia
sitting next to me* My request for a variance pretty well
detailed what my reasons are for the reqoest. I don ' t know what
�
else I can say, to make it short. But I would be happy to answer
any questions that you might have.
MS^ CANESTARO'f We own the properties on either side, we live
there, we do rent to students. We have four properties on Linn
Street side that we live on and Farm/Linn Street, right across
the street^
MR, CANESTARO** They are all contiguous to one another ^
MS^ CAMESTARO'+ So we are right there in order to take care of
the properties, maintain them and we rent ten months, so that we
8o in for two months just cleaning and whatever repairs have to
be done. Purchasing 145 Linn - it was a two-family - we started
out we were going to leave it two-family, until we started get-
'
1-7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 81
ting into tearing walls, and one thing led to another and it was
a real mess and we really Sot into a large amount of work. And
so we decided it was more than we could afford - to pot in two
baths, two kitchens - we did pot two baths in, I ' m sorry -two
kitchens, two furnaces - to separate the electrical and what have
you to keep it as a two-family* And if we did keep it as a two-
family we would have been allowed three unrelated in each unit
which would have made six. We are asking to open it for a five
bedroom, for a family or five unrelated and that ' s it ^
MR^ CANESTARO** That was described in the appeal .
MS. CANESTARO** That was already described, I know. I ' m just
repeating what is in the letter ,
MS^ J8HNSON*+ So in the past it has been a two-family*
MR. CANESTARD'4 Two family, yes,
MS. CANESTARO'+ And five people living in the house*
MR. CANESTARO'# The last time it was rented there were five
people there* A family of three op and husband and wife down, so
there were five people in it at the time*
MS. JOHNSON** But there was only one kitchen?
MR^ CANESTARO'+ No, there were two kitchens^
MS^ CANESTARO'* There were two kitchens^ It was two apartments~
MR, CANESTARO*# Two apartments^ The one kitchen is what we
propose now^
MS, JQHNSDM*# I see, this is the proposed, ^ .
MR^ CANESTARO*+ That ' s the proposed, that isn ' t what it was.
MR^ BOOTH: How recently was that rented as a two-family hoose?
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ "?
MR. CANESTARO*4 Probably a year and one-half ago and what happen-
ed, the people who -were upstairs moved out of the City to Ohio
and Mrs. Walsh owned the property and she was like in her 80 ' s
and she couldn' t rent it because it was in such a dilapidated
condition so that she left it empty and she wasn ' t, and at her
age, she couldn ' t do any - she didn ' t have the wherewithal to do
anything to improve it, so she left it empty, For the past year
and one-half, no for the past two years, she was the only one
living there because she simply couldn ' t rent the apartment,
MS^ CANESTARO*# It needed work.
MR, CANESTARO*4 It needed a lot of work.
�
MS, CANESTARO'* And she has passed away, and we have taken it
over . '
MR* CANESTARO** Actually why we bought it, mainlyr because we own '
the properties on either side of it and across the street and we
were afraid that someone would just take it, as it is, and just
leave it and let it 8o further down hill , which we felt would �
detract from the value of our properties so we - in a way - were
�
trying to protect ourselves - the value of our properties.
�
MR^ BOOTH+# The work is already substantially underway. I assume
you have a building permit for that?
MR, CANESTARO'+ Yes.
MR. BOOTH'# How is it that the building is so far under way and
you are just now applying for a variance?
MR, CANESTARO** The reason being, I simply didn ' t have the money
to 8o - because we never contemplated a complete gutting and
_
"A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 83
renovation and there was no way that I could - or had the
wherewithal to pot two units in, so I either get it and rent to
three people or to a family or however , It was either , I didn ' t
have the money to So two apartments so that ' s how it stands^
MR* BOOTH*+ What is the going rate for renting to a student in
your part of the City?
MR, CANESTARO*4 Right now we rent - well it depends on the
apartment, obviously, anywhere from one sixty to one ninety per
person*
MR* BOOTH'# Per person, per month?
MR^ CANESTARO'# Per person, per month, yes^
MR, NEAVER++ That is a ten month lease?
MR* CANESTARO'* Yes^ By the way we rent ten months" we don ' t
rent twelve.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ How much would you say your investments are
going to cost in the specifics?
MR, CA#ESTARO*+ Right now - to begin with we paid twenty-seven,
five for the property , I ' ve - the contractor is on time and
material . I have already given him twenty-eight thousand dollars
for the renovation and, , ^ ^
MS* FARRELL'* Would you repeat that for anyone who missed it?
MR, CANESTAR044 It was twenty-seven, five, was the purchase
. price, I paid him twenty-eight thousand dollars to date - I gave
him a check this morning which brought it op to twenty-eight
thousand dollars, So I ' ve Sot a sizeable investment, I could
have just let it sit and just rented it to whoever ^ ^ ^
' —
MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** 84
MS, FARRELL*# So now you ' ve pot in twenty-eight thousand, you
have ripped everything out - so the kitchens that were there^ ^ .
MR, CANESTARO*+ I pot twenty-eight plus the purchase price,
MS* FARRELL** Ri8ht^ The kitchens that were there are now gone,
MR. CANESTARO** Gone. Everything is 8one^
MS^ FARRELL'# Okay,
MR. CANESTARO*f It is a completely new^ ^ ^ ^
MS* FARRELL'* So what would you be talking about if you made it
back into two units? I mean, you have pot in twenty-eight
thousand ^ ^ ,
MR. CANESTARO++ Hell , number one, I' d have to make the rooms
smaller and then I ' d have to add another kitchen, ^ ^
MS^ FARRELL** Wait a minute, make the rooms smaller?
MR^ CANESTARO'* Yes because we are going to have two kitchens*
We have some bedrooms that are good sized now.
MS, FARRELL*# You had two kitchens before. . .
MR* CANESTARO** But the rooms were very, very tiny, very small *
MS^ CANESTARO*+ Very small and very low, we had to raise them op"
MR^ CANESTARO*0 I tell your I would have been ashamed to show
that^ The condition that it was in, I would have been ashamed to
show that and try and rent it,
MS. FARRELL*# I assume the ceiling heights weren ' t op to building
code or ^ ^ ^
MR. CANEGTARO++ They were grandfathered^
MS, FARRELL*+ Okay^ Do you want to speak to that?
MR, CANESTARO*+ They were okay,
`
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE� ~-
SECRETARY HOARD** It had a variance from the Housing Board of
Review.
MS, CANESTARO� It was approved,
MR, CANESTARO� It had very low ceilings.
MS* FARRELL� Were the sizes of the rooms legal sizes for
bedrooms and things and, ^ ^
MS^ CANESTARO� Yes everything was
MR. CANESTARO� I know that we could have just turned around and
rented it, I know that, '
MS, CANESTARO� And just fixed op a few walls and^ , , .
MR, CANESTARO� We didn ' t even have to do that, ^ ^ '
MS, FARRELL� Okay, did it have a Certificate of Occupancy or ^ , ^
MR, CAMESTARO� Well the people were renting it, I don ' t know~
MS* CANESTARO� I ' m sure they did because I remember it being
accepted for her ^
SECRETARY HOARD'* I don ' t think they got that far . They got the
variance for the ceiling height in ' 79^
MR^ CANESTARO� That was Mrs* Welch?
'
SECRETARY HOARD� Yes~
MR^ CANESTARO� Well I don ' t know, people were living there so I
assumed that. * . ,
MS^ CANESTARO� She had been sick for years,
MR, NEAVER� The question here, the building permit implys that
the new construction will conform to housing code, is that
correct?
SECRETARY HOARD'* Yes.
,
'
'
MINUTES 7/8/85PAGE*. 86
MR^ NEAVER*# In other words what is being pot in there now will
conform to codes?
MS. CANESTARO++ Yes, plus the parking. By taking the old garage
that was in the back^ ^ ,
MR^ CANESTARO** The dilapidated garage at the rear of the
building, which we demolished and the kitchen, the former
kitchen, we were going to keep that but it had no foundation -
the old kitchen was sitting on dirt, if you can believe it, and
the pipes were just lying there^ And that is whyr when we ripped
it off we found out why her pipes were freezing all the time*
Because the pipes were just on the dirt,
MS* CANESTARO** So we took it off,
MR* CANESTARO*4 We took it off and created more parking that way*
He have room for four cars back there and possibly five, I don ' t
know the regulations, but at least four . So parking is no
problem,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*0 Further questions?
MS, FARRELL*+ So you - I mean, to have a use variance you need a
specific hardship, you are saying that the hardship would be
potting more money in this building?
MR. CANESTARO*+ We are op to fifty-seven now.
MS* FARRELL'* Have you calculated anywhere your rate of return or
those kinds of things - your options?
MR. CANESTARO'f Well I know this, that fifty-seven at ten
percent, that ' s - interest alone is fifty-seven hundred, at ten
percent.
''rA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE+' 87
SECRETARY HOARD: Where do you get that?
MR^ CANESTARO'# You can ' t get it, I ' m making it easy, Maybe I
should just restate why we bought that* We really bought it to
protect our other properties, which I think, ^ ^ ,
MS^ CANESTARO'f Nell , just to give her an idea, here is the one
we own - this is the hoose that we live in (showing photographs)
MR^ CA#ESTARO'+ We ' ve lived there since 1957^
MS^ FARRELL+# I actually looked at your hoose because I looked at
201 first^ I thought, they are changing that? It looks so fine,
what is wrong there?
MS ^ CAMESTARO*# But the hoose we purchased is on that side*
MS, FARRELL** Then I saw that one too^
MS. CANESTARO'4 And then we own the one on this side, that is why
we are concerned as to keeping these^ ^ ^ ^
MR^ CAMESTARO*+ We are concerned about - we ' ve been there since
1957 and I think we help other property owners in the area by the
way we maintain our own and that together with the fact that we
could have left that building the way it was and rent it to six
unrelated people, I' m asking for five^ We could have just left
it and rented to six.
'
MR. BOOTH'4 The problem we have is that you have to show that no
other use that is allowed can reasonably 8o on that site*
' MR, CANESTARO'+ Sore but it ' s a heck of a financial problem to
me^ It may be - we could rent it to a family but we are not
going to get that kind of money - we can ' t get our return on it
which , ^ ^ we didn ' t contemplate on doing this to begin with, I
r7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** Be
mean we got into a mess^
MR. SCHNAB*# If rent it to six students at one hondred^ ^ ^ ^
MR, CANESTARO** Well it won ' t be six.
MS^ CANESTARO** Five*
MR^ CANESTARO*+ We are not asking for six,
MR, SCHWAB'* That is what you are asking for , What you have to
show os is that renting it to six in the two units, putting the
more money into it, is not feasible~ So let me just run this by
you. At one hundred seventy-five dollars a month, that is
seventeen fifty per students for ten months of the year , times
six is a little over ten thousand dollars. Now you are
suggesting fifty-seven, five, which is what you are putting into
it now, you would want fifty-seven hundred back^ Now you are
going to have, ^ ^
MR. CANESTARO*+ That is a ten percent - I just threw out that
figurer don ' t use it. I said ten percent interest is fifty-seven
hundred* I ' m sorry, fifty-seven of the investment, you mean,
MR, SCHNAB'# That ' s righty I want to see, with your investment,
or even adding on - doing it right with two apartments, if you
could get a decent return off it, or do you have to go this five
person round? See, that is what we are faced with^
MR , CANESTARO*+ Yes, because you can ' t get - you can ' t rent to
families and get as much as you can from the students, Of
courser there is a lot more involved, we have to furnish it - I
think - the point I ' m trying to make is" we were not going to
change it - that ' s the point^ We got into a , ^ ^
|
MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE, 89
MS. CANESTARO'4 More than we bargained for * '
MR, CANESTARQ*4 A big problem and if we had done what we .
anticipated doin8r we wouldn ' t be here tonight^ If we had just '
kept it like it was, .
MR , SCHNAB*4 I guess what I want is a little more definite
figures on why you don ' t keep going to do what you would have
done, why this won ' t be possible?
MR, CANESTAR044 Right now it is too late to So back to two*
MS^ FARRELL4# Why? '
MR* CANESTARO'4 Well plumbing - for instance - the walls upstairs .
`
are op^ ^ ^
MS. FARRELL*4 So you did it, I mean, yoo^ , ^
`
MR, CANESTARO*4 I did it simply because I had to do it* I didn' t
^
have enough money to 8o to the two^ And I think - I feel that we '
are improving the nei8hborhood4
MR. BOOTH*4 Why not continue what you are doing and sell it as a '
single family dwelling? '
`
MR. CANESTARO*4 No because I ' ve got too many properties, when I i
sell it is probably going to be to my children,
MS, CANESTARO'* We ' ve worked too hard^
MR^ CANESTARO** We ' ve got four properties right in a line, I ' m not
going to sell that to someone else and have it So downhill , you
can never tell how a property is going to be maintained,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Further questions?
MR, SCHNAB*# Along that line, I want to say, one thing that
concerns me at least, if we Sive a use variance to five unrelated
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** ~)
people and then you do sell it, the next owners, ^ ^ ,
MR. CANESTARO*+ Pot a time limit, just say I can ' t sell it,. I ' m
not going to, you can put that right in there.
MS, FARRELL40 You can ' t ever sell it?
MR, CANESTARO++ Well let ' s be reasonable, I mean - twenty years
or so, I don ' t care^ I ' m not going to sell it. It will probably
8o to my children, I have four children*
MS. CANESTARO'f If we were going to boy and sell , we wouldn ' t
have these properties as long as we have* These are the only
properties we ' ve ever owned in the City. Now if we were out to
boy and sell in a turnover , like some do, they would have been
bought and sold immediately. He have never sold anything, we
have bought, yet.
MR, CANESTAR0*0 We have never sold a piece of property ,
MS. CANESTARO*+ We ' ve held on to everything that we ' ve had since
1957 ^ It ' s not buying and selling and making a profit ^ If I ' m
going to sell , I ' ll sell everything, I ' ll be honest with your
.
it ' ll be a packager everything because I want to be out of there?
I don ' t want to watch them all So downhill or whatever that ' s how
much we care about the properties^ But we are not about to move
and we have chil,jren, we have four children and I have one son
living in one hoose right nowr he has been there two years, he is
in one of the houses, So that is not our intention to boy and
torn around and sell it as soon as it is fixed op,
MR^ CANESTARO*+ Yes, but I see what he is sayin3^
MS* CANESTAR04' I understand what he is saying bot. . ,
�
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE*+ �^
MR* CANESTARO*4 And I' m saying, if they could put it in there
that we can ' t sell it (unintelligible)
MS. CANESTARO'* Do whatever you want ,
MR* CANESTARO*4 I go back to the basic point that we could have
just left that property rather than take this big investment,
just left it. It was so bad that we would have no problem^
Instead we are improving it, we are asking for a limitation be
placed on the number of occupants that we can have and that
limitation is lower than the number that we could have rented to, .
so we are not asking to increase density, as I ' ve heard people '
mention, I' m decreasing density^ I ' m providing off-street
parking, I ' m improving the neighborhood*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*# Further questions?
MS^ FARRELL*+ If it were just considered a one-family dwelling,
how many people could live in it?
MR, CANESTARO*+ I don ' t know, how many do you have in your
family? If you want to pot three in a bedroom, some people do^
MS. CANESTARO*f Three onrelated^
MS. FARRELL*# Three unrelated or a family plus one, something
like that?
MR, CANESTAROOO I don ' t know, you could have a family^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Thank you.
MS. CANESTARO'4 Thank you*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# He is the only one out there, do you want to
speak for or against? All righty it is ours.
�-74 MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 92
DISCUSSION ON APPEAL NO. 1634 145 LINN STREET '
MR. SCHWAB*# Tom, why is the Ordinance worried about five
unrelated rather than two three-bedroom apartments?
SECRETARY HOARD*# Do you want to get the same answer that I gave '
you last month? I didn ' t write the Ordinance. It was tailored
so that a single-family dwelling is considered three unrelated in
all zones except an R1 ^ So an R2 allows two dwelling units" op
to three unrelated - family plus two unrelated - family or indi-
vidual plus two unrelated in each unit. If you have more than '
`
three it is considered a - more than three unrelated in a unit in
any zone, it is considered a cooperative* .
MR. BOOTH'# And the theory is at some point the character of how
the building is used changes.
SECRETARY HOARD*# Yes* /
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*4 I would note only that the deficiency in the
lot width is by one-half foot, is that the only deficiency �
created?
MR^ BOOTH*+ It is a use variance*
MR, WEAVER'* The area variance is insignificant.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*0 Absolutely,
MR~ AEAVER'# In fact, you could go back and do a tape check and
maybe found out it isn ' t there .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ The six inches aren ' t there.
MR^ AEAVER'+ Depends on whether the wind is blowing*
MR, SCHNAB'+ Well there is the other side yard that is three
feet^
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*, 93
MR^ BOOTH** I am sympathetic with the appellants but I think that
this exactly the kind of issue that we are struggling with in a
lot of parts of the City. I will move to disapprove appeal
number 1634^
Findings of fact would be'* 1 ) this building was used historically
for a use that conformed with the Ordinance; 2) the appellants
have not demonstrated in dollars and cents figures that those
uses that are required by the Ordinance are not possible on this
piece of property and I will add, again, and this does not have
to be part of the motion, that it is my understanding that it is
that dollars and cents information which is necessary to obtain a
use variance^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Do you want to say something about the
uniqueness Richard? Has it been demonstrated or not
demonstrated? Not that I want to butt in on your motion,
MR, BOOTH** I will add a third finding of fact, there has been no
showing that the circumstance on this property is unique in this
neighborhood.
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Do I have a second? The Chair will second for
the sake of discussion, Further discussion?
MR, NEAVER'# Yes* In the absence of satisfactory cost figures
that You were probin8v I ' m familiar with the difficulties of a
new proposal , in the event of a rejection of this application,
would this Board not be in a proper position to satisfy the
motion by deferring action on the application subject to
receiving adequate financial demonstration of the
'
:7*74 MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ 94
impracticability of conforming with the Ordinance and potting
this back as a duplex, which is the alternative.
MS^ FARRELL'# Or to use it as a one-family house?
MR. WEAVER'* The alternatives that could be demonstrated, it
seems to me, with some actual figures rather than some
generalities, might well be available to the appellant and I ' m
uncomfortable with the application failing for lack of that
information. It may be available and I ' m not trying to start a
new activity for this Board but it does seem to be, in this
particular situations, that it would serve the Ordinance and
justice to provide some opportunity for the appellant to come in
with supporting data, financial data , to indicate the
impracticability of conforming with the Ordinance,,
MR^ BOOTH*+ I ' m perfectly amenable to that* If the appellants
feel that they can come back here and provide that information, I
for one, would certainly be glad to listen to that, .
MR ^ NEAVER'# And your questioning (to Mr . Schwab) indicated your
desire to have more concrete figures, so, in discussing the |
�
motion, I would oppose the motion merely on a procedural basisr
that it would be most awkward to come in with an alternative to
provide for another opportunity to discuss this application,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'4 Further discussion?
MR * BOOTH'+ Nell , I ' m not sore I want to have this motion voted
on if the sense of the Board is to ask the appellant^ ^ ^ ^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*# I ' m not sore it is, I ' d like to hear from the
rest of the Board^
�
.
rZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE* 95 '
^
MS, FARRELL*+ That would be fine with me*
MS. JOHNSON'# That would be fine with me too^ "
MR. SCHWAB** I have one question which might be helpful of them. .
Do they start from now, what they have right now and what it will
cost them - which is what they were telling os - what it would '
cost them to pot in two units versos the one unit? To show the .
two units would be extra plumbing and whatnot, is that too much? `
MR. HEAVER'+ If we are going to accept their expression that they '
^
have - they are in a pickle at the moment. . *
^
MR* SCHNAB*4 Yes* . * '
`
MR. AEAVER*+ We can say, well , give os some more numbers and .
let ' s work it out . It would seem to me, also, that we could be
friends of the appellant to the degree of saying, you better '
investigate these options before you go further and that it can ' t .
be any earlier than toni8ht, as far as we are concerned* To
deny, would require some kind of^ ^ , ,
MR, BOOTH: Special showing. |
MR^ WEAVER'* Special showing, and I ' m not sore that I know how .
that could be^
MR^ BOOTH** I will withdraw my motion for the time bein8^ Why
don ' t we ask the appellants if they are willing to^ ° ,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'+ Well we will need a substitute motion, Richard.
MR, BOOTH'* Well let ' s ask them first and then I will provide a
'
substitute motion.
' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN++ Would you be willing to provide os with
^ additional financial information?
^
' —
r7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 96
MR* CANESTARO'+ Jost tell me what you want. I ' d be glad to,
MR^ BOOTH*# Our problem is that we have to be able to see that
there is no practical alternative to what you are proposinS^
MR. CANESTARO'4 Well what I can do, is I can pot - I don ' t know,
number one, I don ' t know what the ultimate cost is going to be,
I was thinking that somewhere along the lines I could say, okay
presently it costs me this, if I were to have two apartments" it
would cost me this, and I would have to get that from my
contractor because I hired a contractor to do this, so I could, �
MS. FARRELL** Could you Set an estimate of that?
MR, CANESTARO*f I will certainly ask him to Sive me a set of
numbers and say, you know, electrical would be this, plumbing
would be this and this is what - the thing that makes it
difficult is that I don ' t even knew how much more it is going to
take - I know I have given him twenty-eight thousand right now '
plus the twenty-seven, five, you know^ ^ ^ .
MR, BOOTH*+ Presumably, some one has to^ ^ ^ ^ �
MS^ FARRELL** But you will want to Set an estimate, I mean, when
�
you get work done you usually get an estimate and you say, ^ ^ ^
what it is going to cost ^ , ^
MR, CANESTARO'# Yes and the estimate was between twenty-five and
thirty thousand,
MS. FARRELL'# Wait a minute, was the estimate originally between
that much to create the two units as they were or to just make it
one?
MR. CANESTARO++ No^ When we started to do the work, ourselves,
_
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE** /
this is the first contractor I ' ve ever hired, I always^ ^ ^ ^
MS* FARRELL'* Okay, so you just got in too deep and then you
hired, ^ , ,
MR* CANESTARO*+ It was too deep, it was too much, because he
ripped it all out and ^ ^ ^ if the termites ever stopped holding
hands the place would have come down*
MR~ BOOTH'# That ' s the best line of the niSht^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** Can ' t report it.
MS. FARRELL** So then you hired him. '
MR* CANESTARO'* Yes, we hired him* .
MS^ FARRELL'# Could he continue the estimate so - just like - how `
much it would be to make it two units - and then what the '
proposed rents would be, so that you would have some sort of^ ^ ^ .
MR* CANESTARO4' If I had more idea what the rents would be^ ^ ^ , '
MS, FARRELL'# Okay, so you take care of the rents and he takes `
care of the other part, I mean, or the other permitted use would '
^
be a single family hoose, well , what would you rent that for , you `
know, would you rent it to a family or to students or to .
whatever " you know, three people, or a family or - I don ' t know '
'
what the rents would be in that particular area. So an estimate
- you know, if you stopped at the one-family thing, but you
rented it as a single hoose without the - you know - the five
people business" what would it be if you rented it as a five
people business or what would it be if you had to pot the extra
cost in and make it those two units? You know, there is like,
those different, ^ ^ ^
prA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 98
MR. CANESTARO*+ I know exactly what you are saying* Usually a
family is less able - I mean - I ' ll be glad to do it, okay?
MR. BOOTH** He need you to spell out as many numbers as you can
to justify what you are doin8^
MS, FARRELL*+ I mean, I also have to say that just looking at
your hoose and stuffy it looks like - you know - you really do
care about your property and it looks like you do pot a lot of
care in it and things like that and I certainly don ' t want to say
that we are not^ ^ ^ ^
MR^ CANESTARO*# We felt that we really were decreasing density -
you know - everybody seems to be so concerned about. That is
`
really, in effect, what we are doing. He could have left it just
the way it was and - I know that - that was our reasonin3^ It is
going to have less people, ^ ^
MR, GCHNAB*+ My sense is that we aren ' t unfavorable to your I
mean we have seen your properties, but from my sense, I get very
nervous as a Board member , just trying to do a general sense of
fairness or justice, rather than trying to apply the guidelines
here and what are the - have they made showings for variances*
In your case the showings are that two units, three by three, or
the single family is impractical for you to get a return on and
MR, CANESTARO*4 Yes and we were so far into it - we went too
far ^ ^
' MR, SCHNAB*+ I - I don ' t not believe you at all - I think what
we ' d like is just a few numbers, estimates - 8oesstimates^ ^ ^ ,
'
MS, CANESTARO*# You see by going to a two-family you had to have
^
_
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE*+ /
- not only that, you had to have stairs going out the back, we
eliminated that - by doing it one family, they have the entrance
coming in and they have a back door and the kitchen downstairs,
The upstairs does not need to have another door , stairs, lights,
there were several - by changing to the one family - it meant a
lot to os, we just couldn ' t because there is too much to finish
op and that ' s not the only piece of property that we have that we
are doing work on* I meanr you always have p' intinS or repairing
a porch or a roof Soes^ We ' ve had three roofs this year 8o on
os^ I mean, believe it or not, you know, so things happen that
you don ' t expect.
MR* CANESTARO'+ Yes, but that ' s not their concern, There were a
number of factors - the amount that we are talking about here, it
was - we joist didn ' t have the money,
MS^ CANESTARO*+ I know its not, but I am saying it ' s all - sorry*
`
/
'
MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 100
DECISION TO DEFER APPEAL NO* 1634 145 LIMN STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Carmen and
Virginia Canestaro for a use variance to permit the conversion of
the two-family dwelling at 145 Linn Street to a cooperative
dwelling for one to five unrelated individoals. The decision of
the Board was as follows'*
MR* BODTH*# I move that the Board defer action on appeal number
1634 until next month when the appellant is requested
to appear before the Board with further information,
MR . HEAVER** I second the motion^
VOTE*+ 6 AYE VOTES CARRIED
'
BZA MINUTES 7/8/85 PAGE44 �
SECRETARY HOARD** The next appeal is APPEAL NUMBER 1635 421
NORTH CAYUCA STREET
-
Appeal of Peter J^ Malison for an area variance
for deficient setbacks for the front yard and one
side yard under Section 30^257 Columns 11 and 13
of the Zoning Ordinance to permit the conversion
of the single family hoose at 421 North Cayuga
Street to a two-family house * The property is
located in an R3a (Residential - multiple dwell-
ing) Use District in which the proposed use is
permitted, however under Section 30^57 the appel-
lant most obtain an area variance for the defi-
cient setbacks before a building permit or Certi-
ficate of Occupancy can be issued for the conver-
sion*
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ Will you identify yourself?
MR. MALISON+# My name is Peter Malison, I live at 421 North Cay-
uga Street and I am seeking an area variance because of side lot
deficiencies and front lot deficiencies to create a three bedroom
apartment upstairs in my house that I live in. The reason I want
to do this is because the hoose is just too big for my wife and I
right now, When we had the kids at home it was great but they
have all gone, And we are in the processing of refinancing the
hoose and the new mortgage payment is going to be astronomical ^
That is part of the reason that I would like to pot that three-
bedroom apartment upstairs. I do have off-street parking - I
have a three car garage ootside^ To create this apartment, the
only thing I would have to do is just to install a kitchen in a
room that already exists there. The bathroom is already there,
upstairs so there is very little work to do^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*# I ' d like a clarification on what "possibly
deficient" means on the worksheet.
!"'7A MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 102
SECRETARY HOARD'+ We had two different surveys - well - the
street lines - the property line seems to be on the sidewalk
which is unusual for the City of Ithaca, If this is righty he is
all right but if its wrong, he ' s got a problem, We looked at
another map that had a still different version of where the -
how big the front yard was^
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN'# Another possible deficiency?
SECRETARY HOARD'* No, a different* , .
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN*+ So it is two to one, right? No deficiency
versos one deficiency. One map that says ^ ^ . ^
MR* NEAVER*# In both cases neither of the existing deficiencies
will be exacerbated by granting the variance^ .
SECRETARY HOARD** In fact they won ' t even be made worse,
MR^ BOOTH** There are no external changes?
MR* MALISON*+ No, none at all ^ .
MR. BOOTH*+ We are Setting punchy, as you can see,
CHAIRMAN TOMLAN** Any further questions from members of the '
Board?
SECRETARY HOARD*# We always save the tough ones for last,
MS^ FARRELL'+ That 's a good idea^
'
t`rA MINUTES 7/8/85 PACE** 103
DECISION APPEAL NO. 1635 421 NORTH CAYUCA STREET
The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Peter
Malison for an area variance to permit the conversion of the
single family hoose at 421 North Cayuga Street to a two-family
house* The decision of the Board was as follows:
MR* WEAVER'. I move that the Board grant the area variance
requested in appeal number 1635,
MS* FARRELL** I second the motion^
PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT**
1 ) The front yard setback, if it exists, will not be exacerbated
by the conversion nor will the side yard*
2) The conversion is allowed in the area and will be compatible
with the uses in the rest of the block*
3) The practical difficulty is that the hoose is a little large
to move.
VOTE*+ 6 YES; 0 NO GRANTED
.
- 103 -
I , BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board of Zoning
Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of Appeals numbered 1625,
1631 , 1632, 1633, 1634 and 1635 on July 8, 1985 in the City Court Room of the
Hall of Justice at 120 E. Clinton Street, Ithaca, New York, that I have trans-
cribed same, and the foregoing is a true copy of the transcript of the minutes
of the meeting and the action taken of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of
Ithaca, New York on the above date, and the whole thereof to the best of my
ability.
1
Barbara C. Ruane
Recording Secretary
Sworn to before me this
day of 1985
Notary Public
N, y ',lew York
Term