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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1985-03-18 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS HALL OF JUSTICE CITY COURT MEETING OF MARCH 18, 1985 TABLE OF CONTENTS APPEAL NO. 1-1-85 CLINTON WEST LIMITED 5 609 WEST CLINTON ST. APPEAL No. 1-1-85 DELIBERATIONS 34 APPEAL NO. 1-1-85 DECISION 42 APPEAL NO. 1600 HAROLD SCHULTZ 44 120 HIGHLAND PLACE APPEAL NO. 1600 DELIBERATIONS 65 APPEAL NO. 1600 DECISION 1600A 67 16008 74 16000 76 APPEAL NO. 1604 M.D. & G.D.L. MORRIS 77 1311 EAST STATE STREET APPEAL NO. 1604 DELIBERATIONS 85 APPEAL NO. 1604 DECISION 88 APPEAL NO. 1605 TOMPKINS Co. HOUSING TASK FORCE 90 717-717 WEST COURT STREET APPEAL NO. 1605 DELIBERATIONS 109 APPEAL NO. 1605 DECISION To DEFER 116 APPEAL NO. 1606 TAYNTON FREIGHT SYSTEM, INC . 117 409-15 THIRD STREET APPEAL No. 1606 DELIBERATIONS 123 APPEAL NO. 1606 DECISION 124 APPEAL NO. 1607 FRED E . SCHWARTZ 125 428 NORTH TITUS AVENUE APPEAL No. 1607 DECISION 132 TABLE OF CONTENTS BZA MEETING OF MARCH 18, 1985 page 2 APPEAL NO. 1608 THOMAS AND DORIS EVERHART 133 102 WILLARD WAY APPEAL NO. 1608 DELIBERATIONS 165 APPEAL NO. 1608 DECISION 166 APPEAL NO. 1609 KING POST TRUSS PARTNERS 167 630 WEST BUFFALO STREET APPEAL NO. 1609 DECISION 171 CERTIFICATION OF THE RECORDING SECRETARY 172 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 1 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS CITY COURT CITY OF ITHACA_, NEW YORK MARCH 18: 1985 SECRETARY HOARD: I ' d like to call to order the March 18, 1985 meeting of the City of Ithaca Board of Zoning Appeals . The Board operates under the provisions of the Ithaca City Charter-, the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance., the Ithaca Sign Ordinance and the Board' s own Rules and Regulations . Members of the Board who are present tonight are : MR . RICHARD BOOTH MR . STEWART SCHWAB MS . HELEN JOHNSON MR . MICHAEL TOMLAN MS . TRACY FARRELL THOMAS D . HOARD., SECRETARY TO THE BOARD , ZONING OFFICER E BUILDING COMMISSIONER BARBARA RUANE , RECORDING SECRETARY ABSENT : CHARLES WEAVER The first order- of business that we have is to elect an acting i chairman. The Board has only met once this year and elected an i acting chairman because there was not a full Board present and i until we have a full Board present we are electing an acting chairman for each meeting . So I will entertain nominations for acting chairman for tonight . MR . BOOTH: I would move that Michael Tomlan serve as acting chairman SECRETARY HOARD: Do I hear a second? MS . JOHNSON: I will second that . SECRETARY HOARD: Any other nominations? (none) Close the 1 i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 2 nominations . All in favor? 5 AYES; 0 NAY CHAIRMAN TOMLAN, We prof►ably should begin with the proposed amendment to the BZA Rules and Regulations, copy of which you have in front of you. I don' t see any reason► necessarily to read this Into the record if you all have copies before you . Any comments? MR . BOOTH: I take it the City Council, Tom., is now happy with this? SECRETARY HOARD: Yes . We went over it Friday . MR . BOOTH : Mr . Chairman I would move then that we amend our Rules and Regulations to include the provision► dealing with the deadlin►e for filing of an appeals with the Board of Zoning Appeals, as stated in the memorandum of March 18 , 1r-485 from Tom Hoard . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Do we have a second? MR . SCHWAB : I ' ll second that . Tom, can you tell me how this differs from the earlier one? The one we got on February 25th? SECRETARY HOARD: The earlier one, the Attorney did not like the fact that that list did riot seem to have a whichever comes first type of thing . In other words., it looked like someone could just wait and go dowry the list and pick out the one they wanted to have and we also dropped out the interested party statement be- cause he felt that the reference to interested party was too vague in this context, and that he felt that that would mean that someone might interpret that it meant that they were Intitled to 2 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 RAGE : 3 some special kind of notice in every case - which is not the case . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further discussion? SECRETARY HOARD : I guess the other thing to decide is what paragraph it should be . C:H.AIRMAN TOMLAN: We had a suggested paragraph in the last . . . SECRETARY HOARD : If it is paragraph "N" then we don' t have to retype the whole thing . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right . We pretty well agree . . . SECRETARY HOARD : Otherwise there doesn' t seem to be any logic for putting it in any particular place . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is that agreeable to everybody? All right, let ' s have a vote on the matter, since we have a motion and a second . All those in favor? 5 AYES; 0 NAY CHAIRMAN TOMLAN. Okay, so we are set . We can proceed? Okay, having more or less gotten through our homework we' ll proceed . The Board will hear each case in the order listed in the Agendum . First we' ll hear from the appellant, and ask thAt he or she pre- sent the arguments for the case as succinctly as possible, and then► be available to answer questions from the Board . We will then hear from those interested parties who are in support of the application, followed by those who are opposed to the application I should note here that the Board considers "interested parties" to be persons who own property within 100 feet of the property in question, or, who live or work: within 100 feet of the property . 3 I BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE ' 4 Thus the Board will riot hear testimony from persons who do not meet the definition of an interested party . While we do not ad- here to strict rules of evidence we do consider this a quasi-ju- dicial proceeding and we base our decisions on the record . The record consists of the application materials filed with the Buil- ding Department, correspondence relating to the cases as received by the Building Department, the Planning and Development Board' s findings and recommendations ( if any), and the record of tonight ' s hearing . Since a record is being made of this hearing. it is essential that anyone who wants to be heard come forward and speak: directly into the microphones so that the comments can be picked up by the tape recorder and heard by everyone in the room . Extraneous comments from the audience will not be re- corded, and therefore will not be considered by the Board in its deliberations on the case . We ask that everyone limit their com- merits to the zoning issues of the case, and riot comment on aspects that are beyond the ,jurisdiction of this Board . After � everyone has been heard on a given case, the hearing on that case will be closed., and the Board will deliberate and reach a deci- sion. Once the hearing is closed, no further testimony will be taken, and the audience is requested to refrain from commenting during the deliberations . It takes four votes to approve a mo- tion to grant or deny a variance or special permit . In rare cases where there is a tie vote, the variance or special permit is automatically denied , I would note at this time that those of you who are coming forward as appellants, have the right, because 4 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 5 there are only five of us here, rather than six,, to request a postponement of your case until you have six present, if you care to do so . Is there anyone out there who would like to postpone at this time? VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE ' Can i ask: a question on that? Does anyone know when the sixth member would be available? SECRETARY HOARD : Our understanding is next month, at the April 1st meeting but . , . VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE : One other question, I guess, is it possible to get a vote from the sixth member even though he is not present., if he reads the material? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That hasn' t been our policy in the past . SECRETARY HOARD: That would only be the case if the Board held over deliberation . Then the sixth member could read the minutes and then participate, but he would not be able to vote after there had already been a vote taken . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: We like to have everyone present, obviously, to be able to reach a consensus., one way or the other . Any other further, questions'? Then we car► proceed to the first case . SECRETARY HOARD: The first appeal is No . 1-1-85 - 609 W. CLINTON STREET (CLINTON WEST SHOPPING PLAZA) Appeal of Clinton West Limited for a sign vari- ance under Section 34 . 6: Paragraph A (maximum size of signs permitted in a B-2a use dis- trict ) , and Section 34 . 6, Paragraph G (maximum number of signs permitted for a shopping center in a B-2a use district), to permit the addition of two additional freestanding signs of a di- rectional/informational nature to the Clinton West Shopping Plaza at 607 West Clinton Street . The new signs would bring the total for the 5 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 6 property to three freestanding signs (some ex- isting signage would be removed), and the new signs would be greater than fifty (50) square feet in area . The property is located in a 8-2a (business) use district in which only one freestanding sign of no more than fifty (5O) square feet is permitted . This appeal was held over from the February 4, 1985 meeting so that the appellant would have the opportunity to provide additional materials requested by the Board . MR . GROFF Ladies and Gentlemen, my name is John Groff, I ' m an attorney from Horseheads , New York., we represent the appellant in this case and if it is acceptable to you I will sit down here so that I may talk into the microphone . As you are aware, our re- quest is for a variance from the City of Ithaca Sign Ordinance and our request is to erect two directional and registrational signs for the Plaza . Essentially those signs would consist of signs identifying each of the tenants by their name and then a sign which would consist of a schematic of the entire Plaza., set- ting forth the various rental units and then identify where the tenants are by rental unit identification number , Currently the sign that is on the premises is - identifies the name of the Pla- za itself - Clinton West Ltd . Plaza . The tenants themselves are riot identified by name or location on any directory signs that are available to the motoring public or public that are out on the streets and by-ways . There are numerous tenants in this case who happen to have units which are interior to the structure it- self . We have previously provided this Board with photographs of pertinent viewings of the property as well as a photocopy of the 6 G-' BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 7 layout of the Plaza itself . For your information, it consists - there are two structures on the property, separate and distinct, one of which has various rental units which open directly to the outside - the exterior . That structure is the one that is lo- cated most westerly on the site, the other structure has a multi- tude of entrances and exits and, as you can see from looking at the diagram, has a number of interior units to it . Essentially when reviewing the entire Plaza itself, or Shopping Center, there are approximately ten separate entrances to the various units and the various walkways, interior to the structure itself . In addi- tion there are entrances and exits that go to the second floor of one of the larger buildings., the main building itself and there are rental units in that area as well . The - our intent is to - as I stated - erect signs to identify the tenants and their loca- tion for their benefit and for the benefit of the public that patronize this facility . The appellant has owned and managed the Plaza for approximately one year and during that course of time has become familiar with some problems that exist as far as the ability of patrons to locate the various rental properties . The tenants can,, and have in many cases, erected signs identifying where j+ltheir units are - the problem is that with the multi- tude of entrances and exits to the facility it is difficult with- in the constraints of the Sign Ordinance to be able to notify the patrons . If, for instance, a patron comes in on one entrance and happens to find out that there is a - the tenant is not in that particular structure or not in the area in which that patron is, 7 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 8 then they have to leave the structure and they become frustrated P and elect not to patronise that facility or they may have to move thein vehicles they may have - to the extent of actually trave+ ing on the public thoroughfares . And it is our intent to allevi- ate that confusion on their part . Our request is for that of what is generally known as an area variance . There are typically two types of variances in New York: State . For those of you who are new to the Board, and I understand there are several who are, there are two basic distinctions, area variances and use vari- ances, a use variance is that which would allow the property to be put to a use other than that which the Zoning Ordinance cur- rently allows . In this ease we are requesting an area variance - an area variance is that which deals with geometric: or dimension- al constraints placed upon the property itself . Typically they would be square footage for structures, setbacks from various property lines and things of that nature . In this case you have a Sign Ordinance which permits signage., however it places a con- straint on the number of square feet that can be allowed in any particular tone and so our request is for the deviation from that constraint itself . There are two different standards that are applicable to variances in New York. State . In general unneces- sary hardship is one standard which has to be met by any appel- lant in order to acquire or to be granted the appeal . That stan- dard, which I don' t believe is applicable under these circum- stances., would indicate tht the appellant must establish that the land cannot be put to a use which yields a reasonable return in 8 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 9 accordance with the existing Ordinance . The next standard is that the plight of the owner is due to some unique circumstances which are not common to the neighborhood in general and then the third prong of the unnecessary hardship test is that the vari- ance, if' granted, would not alter the essential character of the neighborhood. The other standard, which is the standard that I believe is applicable under the circumstances, is that which is generally known as practical difficulties . And practical diffi- culties is a standard which is much more liberal than the unne- cessary hardship standard. It is one that has not been defined with as much specificity as unnecessary hardship, however, the case law indicates that there are some considerations that should be taken into mind when any Board is reviewing an application which would adhere to this standard. Basically the suggested considerations is, how substantial the request is . In this case we are requesting simply to be allowed to erect some additional signage on the property . Essentially the signage would be ap- proximately two hundred and twenty ( 220) square feet in addition to what is presently available on the premises itself . The pho- tographs that have been provided to this Board previously have a general depiction of what the signage would appear to be, if per- mitted., and I will address_: that in a few moments . Another ele- ment that has to be considered under the practical difficulties test is whether or riot the variance, if granted, would have any effect on population density, which is not applicable here . The - another- consideration is whether or not there would be a sub- 9 BZA MINUTES 3118/85 PAGE : 10 stantial change in the neighborhood if the application is granted or the appeal is granted . In this case, I believe it is rela- tively safe to say that there would not be any substantial change in the neighborhood as far as motoring public is concerned or any other uses . We are simply dealing with the erection of direc- tional and directory signs . Another consideration is whether the interest of ,justice would be served by granting the variance . In this case what we've mentioned in previous testimony before this Board, is that there are some traffic: considerations which we believe could be alleviated and modified to the benefit of the motoring public and to the benefit of those people who patronize this facility . In addition to that, we feel that this facility provides much needed services to the residents in that community and those public services which consist of laundry facilities, clothing facilities, food preparation and sales, beauty salons and things of that nature as well as some typical business units . Previously at an earlier hearing, Lieutenant Ingersoll appeared, he is an officer with the Cornell University Police Force and he gave testimony regarding the traffic impacts, as far as our re- quest is concerned and the beneficial aspects of our request . He is present tonight if there is anyone who wishes further explana- tion in that regard, he is available and would be most happy to address that issue . As far as our request is concerned, the signs are substantially larger than those that are on the pre- mises- . If you would turn to the photographs that were previously delivered to this Board, you will see a photograph which is iden- 10 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 11 tified as Al . If you wish to relate that to the schematic that was delivered to you at the same time with the photographs - by examining the schematic in red you will see a line on the left side of the page with an arrow and then a number one and then a comma and then 1A. That is to indicate that that is where the photograph was taken from and the arrow indicates the direction in which the camera was facing at the time . As you can see from the photograph number IA there is a large object behind a truck. - that object depicts what the sign would be if the dimensions re- quested are granted . It extends somewhat above the truck, you can see an individual standing there as well . That photograph is looking in a northward direction toward Clinton 'Street . The next that is depicted, which is IA, is a photograph from this same general area, however it is looking., again, northerly, but it is looking toward the existing Clinton West sign and then underneath it you can see what appears to be a frame structure - that is the dimension of another sign placed there for your benefit, so that you could have an accurate pictoral representation of what this request is all about . In the first instance, the first photo- graph showed a long - a tall and narrow sign, basically a sign that is six feet wide but sixteen feet in height . lA represents a different sign . This sign would be by dimension► approximate nine and one-half feet in width and eleven feet nine inches in height . The next series in the photographs is number 2 -number 2 represents the area in which this sign would be placed if this appeal is granted and again you can see - that is the long narrow 11 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 12 sign that is depicted in this photograph . The photograph is taken from a westerly direction., looking east in a median between Route 13 and Meadow Street, looking toward the Plaza itself . The next photograph . . MS . FARR.ELL : I have a question . You are showing this tall standing sign and you are within the Clinton West behind it . . . MR. GROFF : Yes, that is correct . MS . FARRELL : And then in this one - is this just an alternate design for this tall, skinny one? MR . GROFF : There are two different designs under consideration . Our request is of multiple relief . Our preference is for the sign that is depicted in photograph number 2 which is a taller and narrower sign and we are advised by some sign engineers that this sign would be more visible to the motoring public on Route 13 . As an alternative, what we are offering to the Board for their consideration, or for your consideration, is a sign which is a little bit more squat but with greater width and the inten- tion is that if the tali , narrow sign is granted, then it would be erected essentially in the vicinity of where it is shown on photograph number- 2 . If., in the alternative , it is felt that the other sign would be less obtrusive., then the intention would be to utilize the existing framework for the Clinton West sign as you noted earlier, and simply raise the Clinton West sign up in the air somewhat and place the other- structure underneath it so that you would have one basic unit, with two different signs on top of it . We are advised that there is no concern as to the 12 �h BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 13 structural integrity of the framework by the same engineering firm, or sign► firm, rather . So there are those two alternatives we are presenting to this Board for its consideration . The next series of photographs, photograph number- 3 and photograph 3A are k� from a north direction, looking basically southeastly from the north side of West Clinton Street near the intersection of West Clinton and Route 13 . Essentially we are looking toward the Pla- za itself,. as I indicated, in the southeasterly direction . Pho- tograph number- 3 depicts, again,, the long, narrow sign which is the appellant ' s preference, located within the Plaza itself, and then photograph number 3A represents the short., squat sign placed adjacent to the existing Clinton West sign . Photograph number 4 is taker► from the north side of West Clinton Street, approximate- ly half way through the Plaza property itself, northerly of it, looking in basically a southwesterly direction toward the exist- ing Clinton West sign . MS . FARRELL : I have another question . Do you plan to - do you want to put the same signs on both sides? For instance, when you are looking at the back side, does it look the same as the front side? ( unintelligible) MR. GROFF : No it wouldn' t . No, the intent is to erect on the side facing Route 13 essentially a directory listing the names of the tenants that occupy the Plaza. On the easterly side of that structure, it is our intent to erect a schematic similar to what you have before you, of the Plaza itself with the names of the tenants in much smaller lettering, indicating where the - the 13 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 14 tenants name and then where the tenant ' s location would be in the schematic diagram of the Plaza itself . MS , FARRELL : So that would go on the back side of either the tall, thin or the short, fat sign? MR . GROFF : Yes . Thank you . Photograph number 4, again, depicts the taller, thinner sign . The next series of photographs, number 5 and number SA are taken again, from the north side of West Clinton Street, looking in a southeasterly direction, toward an existing sign for Convenient Food Marts and, as you can see, there is a framework there, as well, that is of the short, broad- er sign that we are requesting and then photograph number 5 de- picts the taller, narrower sign in that same location . MS . FARRELL : And would the Convenient Food Mart sign be torn down? MR . GRUFF : Yes . That sign is currently there under a variance granted by a prior Board and it is our understanding that that is not a sign owned by the appellant, however, in discussions with the owner of the sign, he has indicated a willingness to remove it if our application is granted. And essentially, the intent is to erect a sign at the same location where his sign currently is . MS . FARRELL : So if these are the same signs as would be out front., or out near Route 13 and both signs would have all the tenants on both of the buildings? MR . GROFF : Yes . Basically the intent is, the structures them- selves have street addresses that run from 607 to approximately 6=37 or 635 West Clinton Street . However, for our purposes inter- 14 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 15 for to the Plaza they are generally identified as 600 and 625 . 600 is the smaller building, the building that is -the one on your schematic has Clinton West Plaza written on top of it and there are basically eight tenants in that structure itself . So the intent is to set forth the address and then underneath - and identify the buildings by street address and then underneath that the listing of the tenants who occupy those structures at this time . Photograph 6A is taken from a direction easterly of the Plaza looking basically in a westerly direction along West Clin- ton Street, toward the Plaza and as you can see, the Convenient Mart sign is there and directly behind that is the short, squat sign that is under consideration . That ' s under- photograph 6A. And on photograph 6, taken from the same position, the same basic position you see the tall, narrower sign placed at that same lo- cation indicating what it would look like from - for the motoring public . Photographs 7 and 7A are taken from the sidewalk, essen- tially, on the south side of West Clinton Street looking directly westerly toward the Plaza itself and again you see the - on 7 you see the tali sign and in 7A a little less visible is the shorter, broader sign. Those are the signs and the general dimensions and what they would appear to the public and to the neighborhood and as you can see, there would be some reduction in signage based upon those existing structures . MR . BOOTH : Three new signs? MR. GROFF : No . There would be - depending upon what this Board determines to be its pleasure - there may be two signs or there 15 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 16 may be three signs or there may be one sign . The one sign would be the existing Clinton West sign that you see in the photographs already - that were presented . If you granted the appellant ' s request in the manner in which they would prefer to have it gran- ted, that sign would remain on the premises, there would be the tall, narrow sign erected a little bit westerly of it and then there would be a tall narrow sign erected on the east end of the property . MR . BOOTH: So the three includes the existing sign? MR . GROFF , That is correct . If., however, you go with the other alternative that has been presented to you, essentially the exis- ting sign would remain on premises - only it would be erected higher, on the existing framework . For all intents and purposes it might appear- to be simply one sign, as opposed to two signs if that were the alternative that was considered . Let ' s see, the dimension: of the sign have been suggested to us by Ithaca Plas- tics., a sign contractor in this community, so as to make the signs themselves legible to the public driving along Route 13 and north and southerly directions . MS . JOHNSON' Could you give the dimensions of the two signs? MR . GROFF : Sure . I will give you the dimensions of the signs which would be our preference., if you would consider it . That would be six feet (6' ) in width by sixteen feet, eight inches ( 16 ' , 8":1 in height , And then the other sign would be nine feet, six inches (9 ' , 6") in width and eleven feet, nine inches( 11 ' , 9" ) in height . a 16 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 17 MR . BOOTH : You said before that what you are proposing would have two hundred and twenty ( 220) square feet in addition to the existing sign . MR . GROFF : Approximately, yes., and that is arrived at by utiliz- ing the dimensions of the shorter but wider sign and reducing the - or taking into consideration the signage reduction by elimina- ting the Convenient sign . If my arithmetic is correct, I am not an accountant so I would beg - I may be entirely wrong in that regard . Essentially, my calculations are that the shorter and wider sign has more square footage, it is approximately one hun- dred and ten ( 110) square feet . The other sign, the taller and narrower sign is approximately one hundred ( 100) square feet and I guess - thank you for asking the question because it actually would be somewhat less than two hundred and twenty because if the two signs are granted - that would be two hundred and twenty ( 220) square feet and if you eliminate the Convenient sign, which has approximately fifty ( 50) square feet, that would mean one i hundred and seventy ( 170) square feet in addition, to the existing signage for the Plaza itself . Thank you for your point, I appre- ciate that . MS . FAR.RELL : The existing sign is fifty (50) square feet? MR . GROFF : Yes . Which is in conformity, as I understand it, with the Sign Ordinance .' MS . JOHNSON: What is the existing Clinton West sign? MR , GROFF : I will show it to you on - you can see it most clearly probably on photograph 3, It shows the sign as well as 17 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 18 photograph 2, MS . JOHNSON. It is about the same size as the Convenient Store? MR . GRUFF ! Yes, approximately . MS . JOHNSON: It is fifty (50) square feet? MR. GRUFF : Yes . One thing that I would note to this Board, it is my understanding that these alternatives have been presented to the Building Commissioner ' s office and it is also my under-- standing that the technical staff and the enforcement staff have indicated that they feel that the granting of our request would not be in substantial violation of any of their enforcement pro- cedures and feel that it may very well be of benefit to the com- munity at large and in particular in that area . If you wish for me to address the - I don' t know whether it is this Board ' s - whether you concur in my assessment that the standard of review is that of practical difficulties as opposed to unnecessary hard- ship - however , I am prepared to address the other standard if you wish for me to take up your time . CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: I don' t believe it ' s necessary . MR . GRUFF : Okay . I ' ll hold myself available to answer any ques- tions which you may have in regard to our request . Perhaps it , would be worthwhile for me to take a few minutes to go over our site plan of the project itself., to acquaint you with some of the real severity of our problem. As I indicated, there are two structures; involved . The most westerly structure is the smaller one and then all of those rental units enter from the outside -there are no interior hallways or anything like that for the 18 8ZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 19 patrons . As far, as the other structure is concerned, located easterly on West Clinton Street, there are a number, of entrances and exits . If you look toward the middle of the structure it- self., you will see what it looks like a - a long, narrow corridor and that is exactly what it is . There is an entrance on the east side of the building and an exit - well, an entrance and exit on the east side of the building and an entrance and exit on the west side of the building . And from that the patrons would walk through there and there ar-e many rental units which enter only from that hallway itself . In addition to that there is an en- trance on the south side of the building which is off of Center Street to some of the rental units - Center Street is at the bot- tom of the schematic diagram you see there - and then there are some other rental units which enter- from the west side of that main structure and in addition to that, there are some entrances at the north side of the str-ucture which ar-e - lead to a stairway that goes up to the second level of the main building . As you can see, in order for us to make readily available and known to patrons of this Plaza, it would require a tremendous amount of signs - located at' all of these various entrances to indicate where the various different tenants ar-e located . Our hope is to alleviate the need for a multitude of signs by erecting the two that are under consideration now and with the schematic,, and make it readily available to the patron=_. . One thing that you have here that I would request that you take into consideration is that you have a shopping center which is somewhat similar and 19 BZA MINUTES 3/18/65 PAGE : 20 akin to a hybred between what is known as a strip shopping center and a mall . Because of the interior entrance aspect for a number of the rental units it is somewhat akin to the malls, similar to Triphammer where you enter the entrances and then - hopefully in front of the entrances there is a sign indicating where the vari- ous_. stores are and you can go to them. That is a perfect example of why directional signs are very important to a tenant and they can mean a great deal to the tenants as far as their economic livelihood is concerned . The other structure is one that is somewhat akin to strip malls in the sense that it has exterior entrances and on that basis it is readily apparent to someone who happens to be driving through the Plaza where the particular ten- ant is located . Part of the problem that we have is that for someone to enter the Plaza from Clinton West, there are - I ' m sorry - from West Clinton Street and to go to the wrong struc- ture, arid finding out that they are at the wrong one - if they are going to utilize their vehicle -and people being somewhat attached to utilizing automobiles, tend to hop back into their car and drive to wherever the other location is . The end result is that many times a patron would leave the shopping center pro- per , enter onto either, tenter Street or West Clinton Street, and travel from there to the other- structure. It increases certainly some traffic risks, in the sense that you have an increased traf- fic: flow - it also is our hope and desire that by erecting these signs that we would eliminate confusion as far as the tenants are concerned and as far as their patrons are concerned as to where 20 ,' ' BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE ; 21 the tenants are located . Are there any questions that I could address at this time -I would note that there are several of the merchants who are tenants of Clinton West in the audience tonight and if you wish they certainly can address some of the financial considerations that they have regarding the need for this sign- age . One thing - as residents of this community you might be aware - this used to be known as the Co-op building - the Ithaca Co-op . Because of that association many times the tenants uti- lize that as an identification factor in their advertising . Space in any kind of advertising is money and when they are re- sorting to utilizing the Co-op as a means for identifying their location it means that they have less money for their basic ad- vertising budget available for merchandising . By erecting these signs• it is our hope that they could make better use of their advertising budget at this time . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Believe it or not I have one question. MR . GROFF : Sure, I ' ll be happy to try to answer it . CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: You say the management has had control over the shopping center for about a year - during that time has there ever been any study of the circulation, the traffic - the grounds -I mean if one looks at the plan, it is very clear that some of the larger entrances may not necessarily coincide with the most heavily utilized access points., or exit points, for that matter . And, I ' m just kind of wondering where does the traffic really ' come ins' Now I have a hunch, having made use of the center my- self, but has there been any study, any statistical count, any 21 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 25 MR , BOOTH. No, I tend to agree with him, I was just looking to see if there was something that was overlooked . MR . GROFF : Perhaps my interpretation is not correct, if so I would appreciate it if the Hoard or Tom could enlighten me in that regard . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well for the moment I think we had best move on . Is that okay? MR . GROFF . Do you wish to hear from any of those tenants that are here in the audience tonight regarding their position . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: If they wish to come forward, certainly we will hear them . MR. GROFF : As I indicated, Lieutenant Ingersoll is here, you did ask a question about the study and traffic concerns and I ' ll ask Bart to come forward and address that issue at this time . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Fine . MR . GROFF : Thank you . I appreciate your consideration and your time . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Again, if we could begin with identification of yourself and . . . LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL ! Okay . I ' m Bart Ingersoll, I am connected with Clinton West as the Vice President of the Corporation, I have been and presently am a Lieutenant at Cornell, I have been involved in traffic: advisement and patterns and on safety and I have looked at Clinton West . My own personal judgment, I feel, as has been explained to you that if the people coming from Route 13 to the Plaza are not familiar with the Plaza they will use the 25 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 26 first entrance to be able to realize where they want to go . The idea of putting the sign there is to keep them out of the main traffic: flow around the Plaza and get them off the street where they can park: and visibly see what is going on . The entrance between the two buildings is probably the most used for people who know where they want to go - that do not need direction or do not need to know the name of the business to which they want to go . Probably the primary entrance is by the Convenience - this is the one that has the most traffic . . . MR . BOOTH : Which street? LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : Off of Clinton Street, West Clinton Street . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Site number 1 ., in other words . LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : I do not have the map in front of me . Yes right . The idea is to get them off the street., into the parking lot to an area where they can readily identify a sign or directional device and get them parked out of the main stream of the traffic . This is the closest I can come to an approximation . I have not done a numerical statistical study of the problem, it is purely based on my experience there and . . . MR. BOOTH: Why not shut off that entrance furthest west toward Route 13? LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : Shut it off? There is two or three entrances there - three or four . MR . BOOTH: Why not bring everybody into the main entrance or the main two entrances on West Clinton Street? 26 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 27 LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : I think if you shut off the one closest to Route 13 - that entrance is used by people who know the Plaza pretty much and secondly who want to get off and start looking . I think: if we can direct the traffic for the people who are con- fused - for safety sake, get them there, it would be better to get them in off the traffic at that point, then bring them in to the main traffic pattern between both the buildings where it is -these entrances are not big - they are basically one and one- half czar entrances . I don' t know if you are familiar with them but these entrances are small entrance ways . MS , JOHNSON: What about closing off those two westerly ones and making the others larger because I think they are hazardous if two cars are trying to come in and out at the same time. Both of those main entrances and I see people slowing down, not pulling in to read a directional sign - you know - they will slow down right on the main street and kind of read and look and act confused . LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : It has been my experience at Cornell - on the placement of the directional signs, to place them off and I can think: of one in particular - Carpenter ' s Circle, if you are familiar with it - there is a direction sign with a schematic on it right there in that heavily parked area and - in my experi- ence, I have noticed people pulling into it to read it - to get i off out of the mainstream instead of parking on Campus Road and walking to it . I don' t know if closing off streets is an appro- priate thing really - or entrances - I don' t know. 27 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 28 CHAIRMAN TCIMLAN: Any other questions? Thank. you Lieutenant . Is there anyone else who would like to speak on behalf of granting this variance? Come forward please . Again, beginning with identification . MR. RUSSELL : My name is Don Russell, I have the Convenient Food Mart down there . I am interested in the signs., mainly because it will bring me a few more dollars every week, I think . Also as Mr . Groff said., every time we have to identify ourselves as for- merly the Co-op takes up advertising space . We have several peo- ple daily who call us and want to know where we are - they have heard of us but they don' t know where we are . We have people that find their way in every day that have never been there be- fore. I feel that the sign on Route 13 would turn more business our way . As far as the parking lot entrances, they are hazardous - that is something that we' ve talked about the possibility of widening - I don' t know as I like the idea of closing any of them off but - that ' s really all I have to say - I think: all the - I ' m probably the most fortunate tenant down there because I do have the one sign erected on the street so I might have a little more visibility than some of the other ones do . As far as location of the signs., the trees really aren' t that much of a hazard . When I erected that sign - before I made it a permanent sign - I travel- led back and forth to see what the visibility was and the leaves are a hindrance but it is a lot better- than having no sign . I know when I put the sign up it more than doubled my customer count., so I feel that having the proper signage indicating the 28 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 29 other businesses that the motorists might be interested in, will also help my business . That ' s all I have to say . CHAIRMAN TCIMLAN: Any questions from members of the Board? Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak on behalf? Come forward . MS . WHEELER: My name is Claudia Wheeler from Hill Beauty Shop . I am located on the interior of the building on the eastern side of Clinton, West Plaza. I have seven stylist in my shop - each of those girls are in business for themselves . I get complaints from them every week about people who have problems . I think probably I ' m one of the ones most affected by not having the sign because they work on a thirty minute appointment slot and if peo- ple are late getting into the shop it throws off their whole day . And I am constantly getting complaints from riot only the patrons but the girls . I think I would really benefit from a sign . The other concern► I have about closing off the entrances - if you are aware of the two main, entrances to the Plaza, they are both real- ly small, they don' t - two cars would have a difficult time fit- ting through those - that area is oftentimes very congested be- cause of a bus stop, because of the gas station, because of Corn Street and it is really sometimes difficult to get in and out of there., in that area. If the other - the entrance on the west side were closed, I think it would cause a little bit of prob- lems . 1 know that people who are more familiar with the Plaza use the entrances on the west side, where they can just pull in , Thank you . 29 8ZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 30 CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: Any questions? MR . BOOTH: Which street are you saying that most people pull in? Who know the Plaza? From which street? MS WHEELER: From what I notice, all entrances are used but I think: people who ar-e aware of the Plaza tend to use those entrances on the west side . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Those closest or furthest away from the City? MS . WHEELER: Furthest away - the west side, on Clinton Street . If - not that they are used - those are most often used but they are used I think by people who know the area and want to get in off the street . CHAIRMAN TGMLAN: Further questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else? I thought there was somebody else . MS . AYERS : Hello . My name is Anne Ayers, I ' m the owner of Lit- tle Cr-itter-s Pet Shop and Little Critters Pet Shop is located on the south side of that complex that is nearest to Route 13 . I have a good looking sign that I brought with me from 320 East State Street where I was for-mer-ly located but I understand that I am not permitted to put it on the facia board and so the only way that someone would be able to see what the store is, would be to have to drive in - in back - and look underneath and the sign is mounted - what four feet underneath and just above the entrance . So it has very little visibility - it would have no visibility from Route 13 at all and certainly none from Clinton Street at all because it is on the back: side of the building . So., for me, a sign giving Little Critters location is very definitely needed . 30 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 31 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And for you the west side or the east side of the Plata is more important? The west side coming off of Route 13? MS . AYERS : Pardon me? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: For, you., the people coming off - are chiefly coming off of Route 131' In other words . . . MS . AYERS : Or coming west on Clinton Street . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN . I see, so it is both ways? MS . AYERS : Yes, it is either one but I do support the other people who have advocated widening those entrances - that is very definitely called for . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Thank you. Next? MR . COOK : My name is Lester gook, I ' m from the Country Craft Shop., we are located in the square building in the center of the parking lot . I am currently in where the Cayuga Liquor and Wines used to be, the glass enclosed building . I: too, agree with the other tenants - just merely by hearing from conversation of the people that have found our store and have remarked where is so and so -they are not familiar with the complex - it is hard for them to find any of the stores inside - Bib n Cribs or any of the others - the people that I have overheard come into our complex, drove by and then saw our, sign in the window, and then came back to our store. I think the directory sign in the very front of the Plaza would do us a lot of good as well as the rest of the complex . My feelings are that people are familiar with the old Co-op and they are just unfamiliar with the stores that are in- 31 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 32 side . With a directory out in front it would very clearly state who is inside and make it an easier location to drive to . The traffic: - I agree for our store., probably the majority comes from Route 13 . We formerly were at the Pyramid Mall and I know where most of our clientele is coming from and the majority of our cli- entele does come down Route 13 . I work at Ithaco and I deal with salesmen in my line of business• there and they' ve commented about the Cherry Street directory on the corner down there and so I do feel very strongly for some form of a directory sign out in front . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions? MR , BOOTH: Do you conclude that two of these directory signs are needed , instead of one? MR . COOK, I feel that at least two, yes . To complement both directions of traffic . For ourselves the sign in the front facing Route 13 would be more beneficial . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: More questions? Okay, thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor ? MR . HUTTUNEN: My name is Hemmo Huttunen, I am probably one of the newer tenants in the complex, I moved in on March 1 . I have a small insurance office on the second floor•, just above the Con- venient Food Mart . I would like to see the signs come up .just for the simple reason I think it is a more professional way of showing where we are . In the short time that I ' ve been there, we have had deliveries delayed a day - supplies - because people couldn' t find me . They might do a lot of shopping at the Conven- 32 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 33 ience because that is where they get their directions but I think what has been spoken here in favor of the signs, I surely would be very much for' the new signs . I think two would be needed for the simple reason that there are two complexes - two different buildings - the one that I am in, is more complex yet than the smaller one on the west end. I ' m on the east end of the complex . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions? Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the granting of the variance? All right, is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition" (no one) That being the case I guess we will now proceed to the deliberations . 33 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 34 DELIBERATIONS ON APPEAL NO . 1-1-85 509 W. CLINTON STREET MS . JOHNSON: Was I right in the assumption that both signs would list all tenants? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Yes . MR . BOOTH: In both buildings . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: With a map on the back, right . MR . BOOTH: A map on one side and all the . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The listing on the other side . MR . BOOTH: On the other side, right . MS . JOHNSON: From the looks of the 6A, coming down the street from October through April - otherwise May to September you are not going to see the top at least the top half of that sign . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That is precisely my point . Yes, if it is the tall., skinny one you are not going to see it above - in the trees, that is very clear . I think there is a more convincing case being made for the other location, certainly, than the location here . MS . JOHNSON: That squat sign might be - would certainly be more visible in the back location . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And, of course by comparison it is good to point out that similar signs that are being offered as examples don' t really correspond, do they Tom, to our present situation in all cases? SECRETARY HOARD : Well the one at the Ithaca Commercial Center did have a sign variance . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So it was a variance at that point . 34 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 35 SECRETARY HOARD: And the Pipe Welding Supply, I have to admit that that is the first time I remember seeing that sign . MR . BOOTH: Tom., how do you classify this use under B2, or under any of the uses that are listed? SECRETARY HOARD: It is really a collection of several things . Retail stores there . . . MR . BOOTH: There is no specific listing, as I see it, for a shopping center but a number of those things fit under several of the items, do I read it correctly? SECRETARY HOARD : Right . MR , BOOTH: I would also like to ask Tom if he recalls the circumstances under which the Sign Ordinance apparently was amended to deal with shopping centers and other multi-use facilities . SECRETARY HOARD : Where are you? MR . BOOTH: I ' m on page 34 . 66D - page 34 . 11 . In the case of shopping centers and other multi-use facilities one freestanding sign shall be allowed to a development as a whole and not for each individual use. Do you have any recollection of the circum- stances that surrounded that amendment? SECRETARY HOARD : Back in 77? MR . BOOTH: I know it is going back a long way, 34 . 11 . SECRETARY HOARD: No I don' t remember why it was put where it is . Or even what was amended . MR . BOOTH : You don ' t remember? SECRETARY HOARD : No . 35 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 36 MS . FARRELL : If this was a B5 zone, the shopping center would be allowed one hundred and fifty ( 150) square feet of sign? SECRETARY HOARD : Yes . MR , BOOTH: Plus each - does- that mean also that each establishment could also have one hundred and fifty ( 150) square feet? The provision that Tracy just read, B5 zone? SECRETARY HOARD : No . Each establishment, yes, but the Center as a whole would have one big freestanding sign . In other words, like Tops can have a big TOPS on the building., then they can have a big TOPS sign out in front because they were there first . MR . BOOTH: So each establishment can have one hundred and fifty ( 150) square feet? SECRETARY HOARD : Yes . MR . BOOTH. And then the facility as a whole can have one freestanding sign? SECRETARY HOARD: Right . And so really in terms of total square footage of signage they are well below what this would allow . MS . FARRELL : If we granted the variance for the freestanding signs, since they are in a B2 district, they wouldn' t be allowed to have this much signage on their building, as well, right? SECRETARY HOARD : Right., you would be granting permission for the specific; signs that they are asking for, or as you modify it . It doesn ' t rezone the area . MR. BOOTH : Torn., do you read the exception on page 34 . 11, Subdivision C of that same section - that, as I read it only applys to signs that are attached to a building? 36 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 37 SECRETARY HOARD : Well, yes . MR . BOOTH , This is to deal with buildings that face on two streets . SECRETARY HOARD: Right . It is sort of a strange thing anyway because you are allowed - it doesn' t give you any more than you' d be allowed otherwise . You would be allowed to have two signs on the face of the building whether- they are this way or this way . . . MR . BOOTH: The total can' t be any greater? SECRETARY HOARD: The total can' t be any greater, no . I think this is an unusual case, this particular shopping center because it is split and it has entrances all over the place, not like some of the other ones where you come in one area and everything is laid out in front of you , CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So one of the practical difficulties might be the design itself, of the shopping center . Stewart any further thoughts? MR. SCHWAB : One thing that is interesting to me, it seems if we are going to grant them the tall, skinny sign, actually it has less square footage and closer to the Ordinance . MR . BOOTH: I calculated that while we were sitting here . MS . FARRELL : However that one doesn' t eliminate the original shopping center- sign, so you would have to add that in . Whereas the other one replaces that . MR . SCHWAB : No it does not replace it . MS . FARRELL : Oh right . It just doesn' t have any freestanding so it is the same as ( unintelligible) 37 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 38 MS . JOHNSON: (unintelligible - 2 people were talking at once) MR . SCHWAB ' So it strikes me if we are going to grant, I would be inclined to give them their first choice . However, that seems odd, the tall one . 1 MR. BOOTH: Six by sixteen feet, eight (6 x 16 comes out to r9 just a fraction over a hundred square feet . So two of them would be a fraction over two hundred square feet . Nine feet, six by eleven feet nine (9 ' 6" x 11 ' 9") comes out to a little more than one hundred thirteen ( 113) square feet, almost one hundred fourteen ( 114) square- feet . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So in general people' s preferences seem to be leaning toward the tall, skinny one as opposed to the short and squat . MS . FARRELL : Mine aren ' t . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: No? MS . FARRELL : No . I don' t like to have the two separate signs . MR . BOOTH : I don ' t understand . MS . FARRELL : To leave this standing sign and then to add that tall, skinny one in front of it - I really think that ' s not a good idea. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well do we have any better ideas? SECRETARY HOARD: I think: I have different math . 1 MR , BOOTH : What do you have? SECRETARY HOARD: I have for the tall, skinny one, ninety-nine point nine., six (99 . 96) per sign . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Oh, that ' s better, we like that better . 38 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 39 SECRETARY HOARD: And for the squat one, one hundred and eleven point six two five ( 111 . 625) . MS . JOHNSON: I have one hundred fourteen ( 114) for the tall one . SECRETARY HOARD : I have a calculator . MR . BOOTH: I used his calculator . They are very close though . MR . SCHWAB ,. It ' s the same idea, right? MR. BOOTH: Depending on the fraction that you are using for two-thirds . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Can we deal with the broader issues, not the MR. BOOTH: The basic problem that we have., is we are being asked for a variance that will allow between two hundred and fifty (250) square feet and two hundred and seventy-seven (277) square feet . As opposed to a requirement that would allow fifty (50) square feet . The total signage - the two proposals., as I under- stand it, one will be for the squat signs will be two hundred and fifty (250) square feet with the existing sign., give or- take a fraction. And for the tall, skinny signs you will have a total of two hundred severity-seven (277) square feet . And the Ordi- nance allows - in this district - fifty (50) square feet . Now we have granted sign variances in the past, in fact we had a major discussion just a few months ago with the Ramada . To my recol- lection we have never granted a sign variance - at least since I have been on the Board - that remotely approached this scale of variance. Tom, have I missed something in my recollection or . . . I have tried to go back and remember the sign variances we ' ve had - there haven' t been very many of them . 39 BZA MINUTES 3/18/$5 PAGE : 40 SECRETARY HOARD: I can' t think: of any . But I can' t think of any other situations . . . . MR . BOOTH : I understand . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is it the ease that perhaps we are stuck on just the magnitude? If one were - to throw out an idea - to think about site number one or the alternate site number one, to allow that and perhaps- not proceed with the second site - that is the one that is back: further on the lot, closer into town, admit- ting , for the moment, that there may be difficulties but chiefly the purpose would be visibility from Route 13 and some sense of direction. Is that more palatable? MS . FARRELL ' I wonder if that might be adequate if another Clinton West sign, that is about the size of the present one were added in the back.? So that there was a major directory sign up front and there was just a shopping center identification in the back? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further thoughts? MR . BOOTH: Well again I think we have to err on the conservative side because the City Council has thought about the problem of shopping centers and multi-use facilities and have said . . . SECRETARY HOARD: And they' ve put up a sign that doesn' t conform to the thoughts - the Sign Ordinance , MR . BOOTH: I understand, the City has not complied with the Ordinance and that ' s a different problem and that ' s not one that we can solve but the Ordinance reflects a specific focus on this kind of problem and we need to be concerned about that . 40 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 41 MS , JOHNSON: I feel, as Tracy does, that the two signs would really tie an eyesore and confusing and distracting . I ' d much rather see a squat sign under the existing one . And I think the tall, skinny sign on the eastern side of the shopping center will be virtually unusxable, half the year- and the squat sign will be /;q y;> better- there, or even a smaller sign of the sort that they have now . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well that ' s a good position statement . 41 ' BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 42 APPEAL NO . 1-1-85 609 WEST CLINTON STREET (CLINTON WEST SHOPPING PLAZA) The Board considered the r-equest of Clinton West Ltd. for a sign variance to permit the .addition of two additional freestanding signs of a directional/informational nature to the Clinton West Shopping Plaza at 607 West Clinton Street . The decision of the Board was as follows : MR , BOOTH: I move that the Board grant the sign variance requested in appeal number 1-1-85 modified as follows : 1 ) There may be one directory sign of either the short version or the tall version with a maximum sign area of 114. 0 square feet . 2) The sign is to be located in such a way as to be visible from Route 13 on the west and from W . Clinton Street on the east . 3) The existing freestanding signs would be removed except that the Clinton West sign may be incorporated in the new sign . 4) The additional directional sign or free- standing sign is not allowed eastward on E . Clinton Street . MS , FARRELL : I second the motion . FINDINGS OF FACT : 42 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 43 11 There are two major structures on this property and those structures and their internal arrangements do create dif- ficulties for people trying to find commercial uses in Clinton West Plaza. 2) The dimension of the site is such that it is visible from and accessible from three different public ways which indicates the need for greater signage visibility than a normal situation where a commercial use is located on essentially one public way . 3) This is a commercial use which is attempting to redevelop existing buildings and creating a different configuration of buildings on the property would be a financial difficulty of very great impact . 4) Because one of the major access points is Route 13, the nature of traffic: on that highway would indicate that a larger sign is necessary to provide adequate service to this property . 53 The proposal as outlined in the applicant ' s application involving three signs totaling between 250 and 277 square feet approximately - would involve a very large variance which does not seem to be justified in this case . VOTE : 5 YES; G NO.; 1 ABSENT GRANTED/WITH MODIFICATIONS i 43 , BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE ; 44 SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is APPEAL NO . 1600 - 120 HIGHLAND PLACE Appeal of Harold Schultz for an interpretation of the meaning of "new construction" as used in Sec- tion 30 . 25, Column 6 of the Zoning Ordinance Cor a variance in the event of an unfavorable inter- pretation) as it applies to minimum lot size re- quirements, and an area variance for deficient rear yard setback under Section 30 . 25, Column 10, and a variance from the parking setbacks under Section 30 . 37, Paragraph ASb, to permit an addi- tion to the existing apartment building at 120 Highland Place . The addition would include two three-bedroom apartments, and a penthouse would also be added, bringing the total to two four- bedroom apartments and five three-bedroom apart- ments . To meet the off-street parking require- ments additional parking spaces would be pro- vided, two of which would parallel to, and within twenty feet of the front property line . The property is located in an R-3a (Residential, mul- tiple dwelling) use district, in which the pro- posed use is permitted; however, under Section 30 . 49 the appellant must obtain an area variance (and favorable interpretation) for the deficien- cies listed before a building permit or Certifi- cate of Occupancy can be issued for the proposed construction . This appeal was held over by the Planning and Development Board so that the Envir- onmental Assessment could be reviewed by that Board . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Again., if you will begin with identification . MR . VINEBERG: My name is Ken Vineberg, I ' m a Designer here in town, I ' m doing the design work on this building . This machine shows slides and the photographs we have are slides . SECRETARY HOARD: Those weren' t taken recently . MR. VINEBERG: No, they were taken in the summertime . This is the site and the building at issue . I am showing this slide just to orient everybody, it is the most familiar picture of the buil- ding . Can you see it? what I would like to point out about this 44 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 45 glide is that the addition that we are proposing would be -would continue down the edge of the gorge from the end of the building here, in other words it would continue to the right in this pho- tograph and it would be behind the trees which grow in the gorge on Cornell property so that when the leaves are on the trees three-quarters of the year., the addition will not be visible from the gorge. Now this photograph was taken from the College Avenue bridge looking down Cascadilla Gorge . That gives you a general idea of what we are talking about . There are several issues in- volved here. Shall I go through briefly what we intend to do with this building? It ' s written up but . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Briefly . MR . VINEBERG : Okay . The owner lives in the building, it is an owner-occupied building , The owner occupies the basement apart- ment . He would like to build a penthouse apartment and occupy that . The penthouse would be most of the existing top floor of the building, a small part of it would be on the roof of the ex- isting building . The building now has a two-bedroom, a three- bedroom and two four-bedroom apartments . What we want to do is we want to end up with the penthouse on the roof that the owner would occupy, we want to end up with two four-bedroom and five three-bedroom apartments, so we are going to increase it from ' four- apartments in the building to seven apartments in the build- ing . The first thing I asked for was an interpretation of the zoning erode and this involves the - on the zoning map in column 6 there is a specification for how many square feet of land you 45 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 46 need, based on how many apartments you have in your building and the way it is specified is that if you have new construction the first three units of apartments should have six thousand square feet of land. If you are dealing with a converted building the first three units of apartments should have seven thousand square feet of land. Now I am asking for an interpretation on this - I went and talked with Mr . Meigs of the Planning Department and he said that the intention behind this part of the Ordinance is to set a general relationship of a number of units to land area based on the type of building involved and the idea was that a converted building would be less space efficient and therefore would require more land and that in general the notion was that a converted building would be a house that had been turned into apartments and therefore, having been a house would not be as efficient as an apartment building . In this case - this is a converted building but it was not a house originally and the con- version to apartments was very efficient and I would like to show some slides . This shows the street side of the building - the building is four stories and it has four apartments, one on each floor . The entrances are all directly from outside - there is no internal staircases . The entrances are through bridges into the apartment on the two upper floors, you will see a better view of that . . here you see the entrance to the apartment on this floor, directly off grade and there is another entrance down here to the lowest apartment . So it ' s a very efficient use of the space - it is not a residential space - no porches or out build- 46 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 47 ings that take up land use that would make it a less efficient use of the space . So I think., in terms of construction, it is very typical of new apartment construction and therefore should be considered as new apartment construction in terms of the amount of land required to go with the number of units . I think this is a ease of understanding the intention of the Ordinance and the spirit of the Ordinance . I don' t think I am asking for a variance in the intentions at all, I think I am just trying to determine or get approval of the fact that this is an efficient building and a new building built today may have had the same amount of square footage as the number- of units . Then there is the question of the appeal on the rear yard deficiency . At issue here is a requirement for twenty percent of the lot depth as a rear yard. That would require fourteen feet of rear yard . The existing building is on the rim of the gorge and the property line is on the rim of the gorge so the existing building has vir- tually no rear yard . The addition that we are proposing does step away from that edge and the rear yard for the addition would vary from five to ten feet - now that shows up on a site plan that came with the appeal and would be drawing number 3 - shows where the addition would be in relation to the back yard . I think: with the requirement fourteen feet we have five to ten feet - I think is a somewhat insubstantial deviation . There is obviously no neighbors in the rear yard - there is no possibility of building close to this rear yard . The reason that we are ask- ing to build the building at this point on the site is that to 47 I 4 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 48 provide the required off-street parking, we are going to need a retaining wall near- the back of the site and that retaining wall would work very well as a rear foundation . We are also trying to maintain a view - a very dramatic view which you get from the existing apartment building that looks up the gorge toward the College Avenue bridge - in order to maintain that view the addi- tion would have to be situated near the back of the site . Most important of all is that the existing building has these en- trances, directly off the site - second entrance for these or the second exit for these apartments is generally onto a wooden porch which runs along the rim of the gorge and then is connected to the ground . That is a second exit for fire exit at the moment and it ' s legal by previous standards . The new building - the addition that we want to put up would incorporate a new fire exit which would be an interior exit of masonry construction and by tying the two buildings together I can use that exit as a fire exit for the existing building . So I want to keep the building back: on the site where I can connect to the existing building and provide the second exit . The other issue - the next issue on the - in terms of the variance is based on the amount of square foot- age required . Now if the variance is interpreted the way I see it here as this being comparable to new construction, then the zoning would require nine thousand square feet of land to accom- modate seven apartment units . We have eight thousand eight hun- dred and thirty-two square feet of land so we are short by one hundred and sixty-eight square feet . Again I think, in terms of 48 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 49 the nine thousand squar-e feet of required, the one hundred sixty-eight is somewhat insubstantial . But the main reason we are asking for this variance is, again, well it is based on prac- tical difficulties having to do with construction . We are having to provide off-street parking which is going to be very expensive on the site because of the sloping site . It requires a major retaining wall and in order to provide the required nine spaces the rough estimates for the retaining wall and the grading and the parking would mean that for- the nine cars we are going to be spending maybe three thousand dollars per car for parking spaces . So in order to provide the parking we have to build enough units to make the project feasible . Now if we built the one unit that we could build without asking for any variance we would still have to provide two more parking spaces in the site currently provides., we' d have to do a substantial amount of this regrading and retaining wall work: . Obviously we can' t ,justify the expense for the additional one unit . We also will have very expensive foundation costs, also because of the nature of the site . We are going to have very expensive construction costs because intention ft here is to do a building of a very high quality that would match ,-PIC 14d ml-!�7�.etailing of this existing building and these brick construc- tion - the same arch lintels over the windows - the same detail- ing that was available when this building was built . So we have a very expensive building that we are proposing here . Also we are - so the expense is why we were trying to do the number of units that we are doing . We ' ve tried to stay within the zoning 49 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 50 and we are short this one hundred sixty-eight square feet in terms of number of units but as far as the condition on percent of lot coverage - which is thirty-five percent -we are staying within that requirement and I provided a site plan of the area - this drawing number 5 in my appeal -which shows the buildings in the neighborhood and the amount of lot that goes with them and I think: just looking at it you will see that we are providing the amount of open space on our lot is equal to the properties in this neighborhood in general , In other words I think the vari- ance is setting a general condition . From looking at the build- ings on Williams Street in particular and many in the middle of this Highland Place area, many of the existing buildings cover more of the lot than we would be covering, so it ' s not a higher density construction than exists at the moment . That covers the issues of square footage . We also are appealing an issue of par- king . Here., this slide shows the existing parking in front of the building and there is also a map which is - these numbers by the way, are in the upper right hand corner of the drawings - drawing number- 2 - the existing parking for this building is five spaces . They are directly off the street and require major curb cut and they are perpendicular to the street -each space is ap- proached directly off the street . It is deficient by one space because it was existing that way but it does not meet the current zoning requirements for off-street parking . What we tried to do here is to really make a major improvement on the situation . Now the variance issue is that when you do off-street parking you are 50 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE . 51 not allowed to have spaces in your front yard - the front yard required by coning . Well in this case the front yard requirement is twenty feet and the par-king that we are proposing which is in drawing number- 4, and there are two drawing number 4' s - there is an earlier version and a later version -this is the revised ver- sion . The parking we are proposing would put two spaces that were in that front yard but that is two spaces as opposed to the five spaces that are currently in the front yard . So that is the issue here, is these two spaces that would be in the front yard but we are going to eliminate a deficiency of one space, we are going to provide all of the required off-street parking, we are going to have only two spaces in that front yard instead of the existing five spaces which► are now in the front yard . We are also going to reduce the curb cut from the current curb cut of forty-five feet to just an entrance into this parking area which would be a curb cut of eighteen feet . And then - and it is also shown in this drawing number 4,, which shows the parking, there is a condition whereby on the street., there is room now for only one car in an area between an existing fire hydrant and the existing five off-street spaces . As a matter of fact, this car here is parked in that street space that is available at the moment . By eliminating these spaces that are on the street by diminishing the curb cut, we' ll be able to park: three cars on the street where there is onlyone car 1 parked now . Now we aren' t intending , to use that space but, in other words, the rearrangement of the parking will provide more on-street parking in this neighborhood 51 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 52 to improve the conditions of parking . MS . JOHNSON: Excuse me . Is there on-street parking allowed there now, overnight? MR. VINEBERG: Not overnight., no . It is only during the day but it is heavily used during the day . MR. BOOTH' Isn' t there quite often on-street parking overnight, as a matter of fact? MR . VINEBERG: I am not familiar- with whether there would be or not but I imagine they are ticketed, I don ' t know . Actually, occasionally I ' ve been by and I think there are signs that say "No overnight parking" and I think they are very strict about that . MR . BOOTH: I was there early Sunday morning and had to park in front of the fire hydrant . MR . VINEBERG : To be able to park: . Well, what I am suggesting here is that we are improving the condition for the daytime use . Of course., we are providing our off-street parking as required by Code. I ' m going through this rather• quickly - I ' ve made a more elaborate case in the appeal itself but I wanted to show the pic- tures that went with this and cover the general issues . What I want to do - I want to basically summarize what we' ve tried to do here - the intention was to do a really good project and as the designer I was well aware of what the Board would find objection- able in a project like this and that ' s basically that Collegetown is a crowded situation and there are problems with parking and congestion in traffic . We' ve tried to address these problems . 52 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 53 We are trying to create a situation on the street that would be preferable to the existing condition, both in terms of the park- ing and in terms of the quality of the building that is there . I think by trying to eliminate the one space deficiency and provide off-street parking we are trying to address that issue . By try- ing to create two extra spaces on the street, we are trying to address that issue . In terms of the aesthetic issues and envir- onmental issues the - we' ve been before the Planning and Develop- ment Board twice and they raised many issues and they are the ones who asked for the environmental impact assessment form. The assessment form was very interesting, I looked at it at first hoping to find that there was nothing in this building that vio- lated the r-equir-ements of this assessment and what I found was no, in fact we were raising many issues that were in the assess- ment form. We were raising issues and then I found - thought the design was addressing those issues and, in fact I thought the assessment form just made - in some cases - a case for how this building was trying to address these issues . I don' t know if you had a chance to look at that assessment form but in particular there was the issue of blocking the current view of the gorge, which you get from the street . Now as you can see there is gen- erally a small space between each building on the street and then there is a rather large gap here which is the property that we want to build on arid., in fact., that is a view of the gorge - which is, of course, directly across . I had already tried - in the way that I designed the building - and that shows in the 53 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 54 sketches of the building that are part of the assessment -the environmental assessment . I tried to do something that I thought was very inter-esting which was to go from this sketch of the ex- isting - where there is just this amorphous space between two buildings and czars parked right on the street . This sketch here where the view of the gorge is basically a view through large openings in the building is a frame view. There is a sunken court yard here which is the entrance to this apartment and to the further apartment down below and to these apartments here and it ' s very much like a condition on Myron Taylor Hall at Cornell where you - the building is on the rim of the hillside and blocks the view out over the valley but as you approach the building you go into a little courtyard and then you look through archways in the building and you see out over- the valley and it is much more dramatic . That is the kind of thing I was trying to do with the design and in filling out the assessment form I realized that - you know - I was dealing with this issue of changing the site and changing the views of the gorge . Mk . BOOTH: Where would the cars be parked? Mk . VINEBERG: The cars would be parked in this area . Most of them are parallel to the building in this area, and there are two that are back underneath this archway . Then, hopefully, these low walls would somewhat screen it, and we' ve got the narrower entrance here and there would be., hopefully, planting, you know, in this front area to screen cars and along the edges and side . One of the other issues that was raised was how this building 54 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 55 would look from the gorge and Cornell University was very con- cerned about that and there was an exchange of letters and one of the things that came out of that was that we are very interested in - well first of all - in - by providing a new fire exit in the new addition, we cart take away a lot of the stair cases that are in the porch that overlooks the gorge and we can make that a very clean, tidy sort of porch - it would just be a railing which we can redo and porch face and we can repaint it and one of the things that we are considering - Cornell ' s intention was to not see the building and it is very hard to do but we can plant some sort of flowering vines that might wind up the porch and make this into something kind of - you know -rather exotic and plea- sant looking . We are also willing to plant ivy on the brick building itself . There is some growing on this side but we can add it to the gorge side . So that the building would be more green in the summertime - and it would be bright colors in the fall . So., I think the building is attempting to solve a lot of problems - we' ve presented the scheme as it stands, to the Plan- ning and Development Board and we got their endorsement . We also presented the scheme to the Design and Review Board and we re- ceived their- endorsement . They asked for certain conditions which we had intended anyway, that the retaining wall that pro- vides the parking area and the foundation for the building would be faced with stone on the gorge side . One of the other issues here is precedent . How reasonable is it to build along the gorge . Obviously this building is much more dramatic and much 55 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 56 more visible than most others . The addition we are proposing is not as dramatic, It is going to be screened by the trees . There are many buildings which are in similar relation to the gorge edge - is the addition we are proposing -there are two fraternity houses on the opposite of the gorge -one of them shows up here in this picture - and you can see - the gorge is riot a cliff at that point but that fraternity is right on the edge of the gorge - it is a very major building . And there is another fraternity house just down from it that is situated the same way . So I don ' t think: the addition we are proposing is anything unusual in terms of use of the gorge . The hope is that - you know - the intention is to deal with the building which is there, which is very much on the gorge edge and make some very major improvements in terms of repairs and improvements to the porch, eliminating those stair cases . There was another wase which was somewhat of a precedent for this one too, on Fall Creek Gorge, there is a private home that was designed by Steve Mensch that is right at the Stewart Avenue bridge and he applied for a variance for that project in 197£ and there -�Y.e was an existing building which was an old meeting house - society meeting house and it was abandoned and he was going to make a house out of it by renovating that and adding to it, and he had the same problems that we have, he had a very sloping site which required that his parking be in the existing front yard and he lacked the rear yard because the building he was proposing was going to be directly on the gorge edge . The argument he made, besides the practical difficulties of building 56 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 57 on the site was that this was a way of preserving this rather unusual structure and doing something useful with it . And that variance was granted and I think the project that resulted was very nice . MR . BOOTH: What kind of a house was that? MR . VINEBERG : It was a - rather- a modern home, I guess . MR . BOOTH: Is it now a single family dwelling? MR . VINEBERG: Single family dwelling., yes, that was the inten- tion and that is what it is . The final point is that there are two ways to solve problems when you are involved in design, as I am and when you are involved in zoning as you are . I ' m here re- ferring to the problems in this neighborhood and in Collegetown . From my orientation, have to solve problems by what I build and in a project like this, I feel I am very - I addressed as many problems as I can and I try and create a building which not only solves the client ' s demands - which was for a certain number of units to ,justify the cost of construction, but I try to solve all the problems I see on the site, with my building and it is only through construction that I can address these issues . The Zoning Board is in exactly the opposite position, you have to solve problems by not allowing construction and I think what I am sug- gesting here is that I can solve more problems by building this structure than car► be solved by not building on this particular site at this time and the improvements I can make to this site and to the building to the use of the site and to the parking . I think that covers it . I ' d like to answer questions, especially i 57 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 58 as they relate to the environmental assessment or to . . . MR. SCHWAB : Cornell Plantations suggested three things, actually four, one is ( unintelligible) as I understand it, you are agreeing to one and three but not the porches, number 2? MR . VINEBERG: We are agreeing to one and four . One is to be careful during construction and condition number- four is to main- Iain the site, keep it clean. Their other conditions, two and three, was - their desire was to hide the building - they -and you remember from the first slide,, they want it to disappear, and, in fact (unintelligible) their notion was that we could re- move the. porches and plant pine trees instead of the porches and therefore screen the building from view entirely . First of all we want that view, the building has that view and that ' s the charm of the building - it is not something the owner wants to give up, but also those porches are the only way to maintain that wall of the building . There is only a six foot space of porch and therefore there is only six feet of land there and to be able to go up four stories when you are on this cliff edge and replace glass or repaint window frames or repoint brick, the porches make it - riot quite simple - but it would be incredibly difficult otherwise, so we thought that was a rather unreasonable solution to the problem. The idea of trying to do something to make the building of a building and more vegetation seemed reasonable -you know - 1 tried in the drawings to show the building from that gorge side - then going from a condition like this - the railings are now only a chain link: fence - there is all these wooden stair 58 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 59 cases that wind all over- the porches, we would be able to go to a condition like this where we can do something really nice with the railings, in terms of wooden railings and we can eliminate all these stair cases - we car► plant ivy over all the brick areas of the building - we can definitely — there is enough land to plant any kind of flower-ing vine that could climb up these porches and provide that vegetation on the edge . It could turn into something quite marvelous and that ' s my approach to these kinds of problems - to tr-y and make something out of the problem. So that is what I proposed to Cornell, after I received that and I never did get a response from them. I would like to point out that in their earlier- letter, the one in which they make these four proposals, they do say that they would like to see the buil- ding removed but in the short term they say, "We believe that the proposed development plan, if executed with sensitivity could enhance the present appearance of the setting . " And I think that is what we are trying to do is to do something in addition to the current situation . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further questions? MR. BOOTH: What is the size of these parking spaces? MR. VINEBERG: They were the minimum, it was nine by twenty, one hundred and eighty square feet . MR . BOOTH: What would the truck traffic be - construction traffic? MR. VINEBERG: That was one of the issues brought up in the as- sessment . We had wanted to phase construction in order to avoid 59 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 60 having to work: in the wintertime on this precarious site . So that would mean that things would be done in stages and in the assessment I said we first would do the retaining wall and the parking, foundation► work: in one summer . We' d build the building - the addition, the next summer . We' d do the penthouse apartment the third summer . There would be truck traffic primarily during that first phase of the foundations where there would be some fill that would be brought in - there would be some concrete that would be brought in but it would be during the summertime when the student population► is somewhat reduced . And it ' s a relative- ly small project compared to the impact of the projects that are going on there now and this would, I think, be quite invisible in fact, to what would be happening with the Travis project and the Performing Arts Center but there would be truck traffic during that first phase . The subsequent phases would be delivering ma- terials - wouldn' t be that serious . MS . JOHNSON: I have a question on the parking . It is hard to tell from the drawing that shows the addition and then from the street view of the additional parking - it looks to me like there are going to be three cars parked visible from the gorge . MR . VINEBERG: Yes there would be two . In that drawing that shows par-king, cars number one and two would be parked in that archway which shows up in both sketches . MS . JOHNSON: What is the height of that little wall there? MR . VINEBERG: Well it certainly, you see that - the intention would be to build the wall to totally screen the car - that ' s the 60 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 61 whole idea of the wall . Of course, the wall is also providing the stop for the cars so people feel safe driving in - but it ' s quite - it ' s absolutely the intention that the car would not be visible from the gorge side . I ' ll show you that in this sketch -the two large arches in the building - this one is just a pedes- trian space that would give on to a little bit of an overlook and this is also the entrance to the basement apartment . This larger, upper archway would be where two cars are parked and they would be - this wall would be a three or four foot high wall and the cars would be behind that . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The question I think which is being asked, in part, is parking space number- three in drawing number four in or outside of the building as proposed in your view from the street? MR . VINEBERG: Right . It is inside the building and is screened from the gorge by the building and that shows up better in the sketch which shows the view of the building from the street . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So what you are saying is, that you are going to go through the building and turn right to get into parking space number three? MR . VINEBERG: What I am saying is that I did - you know - the design was in development through the course of these meetings and the current intention is that space number three would be under the building but that this wall here would be pushed back the nine feet to provide a space right here, inside the building but the building would still come to the ground beyond that space, okay? 61 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 62 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I see, okay . Thank. you . MR . VINEBERG: Is that clear now to everybody? CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: Further questions? MS , JOHNSON: Has it - I don' t know what - you are a designer but I ' m real concerned about the structural engineering and the geo- logists and the people ' s - the foundations engineers and all these other people . If we are charged with the public welfare here, I ' m still a little nervous about perching another few fam- ilies on the edge of that gorge . I also don' t understand -this is the second part of my concern, how., if the people occupying this new part of this structure, will have a view of the gorge how will the gorge not have a view of them? MR . VINEBERG : Oh, they will have a view through the trees . Let me show you two slides again . You are right to the extent that the view from the new building would be through trees and it would not be as good a view as in the existing building when the trees aren' t there . And these trees are the ones that show up, right here, which are in the gorge . MS . JOHNSON: And those are on the plantation - the University easement there? MR . VINEBERG: They are partly in that little spot you see, but also, what happens is - the reason this building shows up so strongly is that the gorge is a sheer drop, at that point, but where we are adding on the gorge is no longer a sheer drop and has a winter view. This shows the building in the winter - you can see that there is a cliff edge where the existing building 62 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 63 is . Our addition will be way back here on that little rim of the gorge. That will be the front edge of the addition . You can see - in the wintertime the trees that are , in front of it - also the gorge terraces down quite gradually, like the fraternity house opposite it, in this location. You can see where the snow sits on the ground and these are all trees, so the foundation issues for the addition are not a serious problem at all, we are build- ing from five to ten feet back from an edge, which steps down a little bit to another terrace of the gorge which steps down to another terrace of the gorge. So we are not on a cliff edge at all and it is solid rock . The existing building is quite precar- ious and we did some careful measurements - from the footings to the solid rock of the cliff., which - the cliff is undercut a bit but to the point furthest in on the undercut there is three feet of rock that the footings are back from that undercut cliff face . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Ken, at this point 1 think it is well to point out that the Board of Zoning Appeals, though it may be interested in geology, has no say whether or not there is clay or rock or what not - else, that is really not the heart of the issue . If you can direct your points, if there are any more, specifically to how the appeal is going to be affected . MR . VINEBERG: I think the point here is that the owner would be making a very poor investment if he built a building that would fall into the gorge . We are going to have engineering studies on the addition and the project won' t continue if the engineers feel it is not a safe project . i 63 E BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 64 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN. Any other questions? MS . JOHNSON: I guess I misinterpreted our charge from the beginning of . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well we' ll have to feel from the beginning to the end and make a list of things after . . . Tracy, any questions? MS . FARRELL , I don' t have anymore questions . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Stewart? ( none) Thank you Ken . Is there any- one else who would like to speak on behalf of granting the vari- ance? Is- there anyone out there who would like to speak in oppo- sition? ( no one) Go we have any letters? (none) We will then begin our deliberation, and I think the first thing we have to think about is the interpretation of the meaning of new construc- tion as used in Section 30 . 25, Column 6 . 64 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 65 DELIBERATIONS OF THE BOARD ON APPEAL NO . 1600 120 HIGHLAND PLACE SECRETARY HOARD: I have a different interpretation than Mr . Meigs has, just for what it ' s worth, he reason that the rezoning in 1877 set the minimum lot size for multiple dwelling for new construction, a lower amount, for smaller lot size than a conver- sion was that they were trying to encourage new construction on a vacant lot and somewhat trying to discourage the conversion of buildings . I ' m not saying that to try to influence the decision here)but it ' s just that that was the thinking then, at that time, and that the Ordinance does clearly talk about conversion as be- ing adding to or changing to an existing building . MR . BOOTH: You remembered 1977 very well in that instance . SECRETARY HOARD: Yes, it wasn' t the Sign Ordinance . MR . BOOTH: I think Tom has touched on the critical point and that is the definition of conversion in the Ordinance on page 30 . 4, which shall mean the changing of use or occupancy by alteration, addition or by other reorganization . I ' m not sure as it is very unclear at all CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well let ' s ,just say its possible by looking at other parts of the Zoning Ordinance to find apparent descrepancies . MR . BOOTH: Well, what would you point to? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m riot pointing to to anything, I ' m assuming that ' s the reason for its being brought forward . SECRETARY HOARD: I would agree with that . i i 65 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 67 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1600A MR . BOOTH : I would move that the Board of Zoning Appeals treat this specific proposal as a conversion and not as new development and would suggest the basis for that motion is the definition of the term "conversion" in the Zoning Ordinance . MS , FARRELL : I second the motion . MR . BOOTH : I would add by way of discussion that I think Tom' s suggestion as to what was intended, that is, that smaller lots would be allowed for new construction, somewhat larger lots for conversions makes sense in terms of - we are not a Planning Board - it would seem to make planning sense from the perspective that the City Council could legitimately have been interested in trying to maintain existing patterns of use and thereby encouraging larger lot sizes than where there was new construction . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay, let ' s be clear in that this is a multi-part appeal, that is , it has a part which asks for an interpretation and also then goes on for a question of a variance, so this will be marked as appeal number 1600A for the record and further be clear that a positive vote in this instance would mean that we are not agreeing with the appellant, correct? and that we are confirming under another section that this is in fact, new construction . True? MR . BOOTH : A vote in the affirmative would mean that we are treating this as a conversion . 67 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 68 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: As a conversion . SECRETARY HOARD : Right . MR . BOOTH : And not as new construction . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Clear? 1600A. VOTE : 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That means we coo on to the consideration of a variance as it applies to minimum lot size requirements and an area variance for deficient rear yard setback under section 30 . 25, Column 10, and a variance from the parking setbacks under section 30 . 37 . 68 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 69 DISCUSSION OF THE BOARD ON APPEAL NO. 1600B 120 HIGHLAND PLACE (Changed tape here, missed some of the discussion) CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And those numbers would be moved to? SECRETARY HOARD: Would add a thousand square feet . MS . FARRELL : (UNINTELLIGIBLE) CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: A thousand square feet to all columns? Further discussion? MR . BOOTH: Wait a minute . So E would become ten thousand square feet? SECRETARY HOARD : Right . MR . BOOTH: Why would B become - oh, I see . Seven thousand plus seven fifty . MS . FARRELL : So it would be deficient by . . . MR . BOOTH : Eleven hundred and sixty-eight square feet . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further discussion? MR . SCHWAB : I ' m concerned about the view from the gorge, across the gorge at the College Avenue bridge . It is true the main problem is the existing building but I ' m concerned about adding to it . MS . FARRELL : I ' m not convinced that the new view would be a bad view. With the porches on the present building fixed, I think it would be a rather attractive building . MS . JOHNSON: When you look down the gorge though (unintelligible) walking across the College Avenue bridge - you look down there and it is just . . . SECRETARY HOARD : Wait until the Performing Arts Center is built . 69 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 70 MS . FARRELL : Yes, I don' t see it as a bad thing - I think it is a interesting building . MS . JOHNSON: (unintelligible) see a movie of the gorge . I mean when you look down the gorge it is all - even this time of year - except for that one building, it just . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well, if I might, let ' s again tie this back to the particular conditions that we are supposed to be examining here , MR . SCHWAB : Condition is that it is too close to the back lot . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well one of them is that, certainly, deficient rear yard setback . But another is minimum lot size and the other is the variance from the parking setbacks . Could we address those as well? MS . FARRELL : Okay, the parking I think is actually an improvement, it ( unintelligible) required parking . I realize that two of those spaces are in the front but five of them were before - it eliminates the present parking deficiency . The lot coverage I see as a problem. Meeting the rear yard setback, I ' m not sure that ' s valid when there is not a direct neighbor in the back . That ' s my discussion . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well that ' s moving along in the right direction . MR . BOOTH: I guess part of my concern is that while technically this would meet the off-street parking requirements, that is a terribly difficult street to negotiate with an automobile and with additional traffic in the area, I really wonder if this 70 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 71 meets the spirit of the parking requirements . SECRETARY HOARD : This is probably the only one on the whole street that does . . . MR . BOOTH : I understand that, I ' m just commenting on what is already a very difficult situation. Both times that I have been in there to look at this project, it has been very difficult to move through there . And then you' ve got to come out and go left up that hill . SECRETARY HOARD : No, you have to go down, it is one way . MR . BOOTH : I ' m sorry, down the street . SECRETARY HOARD : You' ve parked by a fire hydrant and you ' ve gone the wrong way . . . MR . BOOTH : I ' m obviously in trouble . MS , FARRELL : I think it ' s a problem to judge the requirement of parking for this property by what ' s happening on the street . If this property is providing the necessary parking, which it is not providing now, and is actually increasing on-street parking by eliminating curb cuts, because there is a bad situation on the street, I ' m not sure we should be - I think we should be judging everything by the same rules and those rules are the required parking would be being met . MS . JOHNSON: Well it is also the impact on the neighborhood of increased units, which will mean . . . MS . FARRELL : Well, but the parking is being increased to meet the needs of those units., officially . Now, whether it would or not and whether the Zoning Ordinance provides for needed parking 71 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 72 by the rules it has is another question . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Stewart`' Anything specifically with respect to the minimum lot size requirements arid, we' ve already addressed to some degree, the deficient rear yard setback, anything with respect to the parking? MR . SCHWAB : Well I think: I agree with Tracy that the parking seems to be a net improvement here . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And you are not particularly bothered by the minimum lot size requirements? MS . SCHWAB : I don ' t know how to judge that here any differently than anywhere else in town . I know this is, I mean, I guess I am somewhat bothered by that - eleven hundred sixty-eight square feet, is that substantial? r ,^ CHAIRMAN TOMLAN. That is a good question . Lgeleven hundred sixty-eight square feet substantial? MS . FARRELL : What percentage is it deficient MR . BOOTH : Well over ten percent obviously . MS . FARRELL : It ' s over ten percent? MR . BOOTH : Well over ten percent . MS . FARRELL : Well over . Is it twenty percent? Fifteen percent? Compared to the other properties in the area, I think that is also important to think about but . . . MS . JOHNSON: Don ' t we have to - when we decide on something like rear yard setback - don' t we have to consider, what I would consider crucial considerations, I ' d like to hear from someone who knows something about building on the edge of a gorge . I 72 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 73 mean, obviously there is a building there now, that is still there . SECRETARY HOARD : That is part of the building permit process . We would have to have engineer ' s - soil engineer ' s reports - the whole thing - to make sure this isn' t going to fall into the gorge. MR . BOOTH : About twelve percent deficient obviously . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So you are saying that it really is a miminal amount or . . . . MS . FARRELL : Well I ' m not sure . Twelve percent doesn ' t seem extraordinary. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: A modest amount? MS . FARRELL : Modest, that would be a good word . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m getting closer to a motion I feel . 73 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 74 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1600B - 120 HIGHLAND PLACE MS . FARRELL : I move that the Board grant the area variance and a variance from the parking setbacks as requested in appeal number 1600 . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 13 The proposed changes provide required parking and eliminate a previous parking deficiency . 23 The unique nature of the rear yard makes meeting the rear yard requirement a practical difficulty . 33 A twelve percent deficiency in lot coverage appears to be a modest deficiency. 43 The Board agrees with the issuance of a negative declaration under the State Environmental Quality Review Act . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further discussion? MR . BOOTH : Let me say something . I ' m going to vote against the motion because I think it is a substantial variance in a very difficult situation, that is, the topography and so on makes it a very difficult situation and I think the lot size is important . But I would suggest that you add to the motion, assuming that it may pass, a finding that we agree with the issuance of negative declaration under the State Environmental Quality Review Act . This is the first variance since I ' ve been on the Board that there has been one of these Environmental Reviews . If we grant the variance we are taking an action, that is an action under the State Environmental Review Act and we would need to say that we - 74 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 75 in my opinion we would need to say that we agree with the issuance of a negative declaration. The negative declaration means that an Environmental Impact Statement will not be done, which seems to me to be a proper inclusion, and I think the motion should say that . SECRETARY HOARD : Shouldn' t that be a separate issue? MR . BOOTH : It could be but assuming that this may be granted, I mean - we could make it a separate issue but I don' t see any reason to, it seems to me it ' s proper to support the issuance of the negative declaration . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: We will make that motion accepted, the amendment . MS . FARRELL : Could you explain that to me? MR . BOOTH : There is a state law something called the Environmen- tal - State Environmental Quality Review Act, that requires State and Local Agencies, of which we are one, to do environmental re- views - and in cases where a project will have a significant en- vironmental impact, to do environmental impact statements on their actions . The City has its own ordinance under the State Statute - that ' s the reason we had an environmental quality re- view done in this particular case . Someone triggered the need to do that review, I don ' t know who did that, in city government . But we are the ones taking official action and so we are the ones officially responsible, as I read the city code - I had Stumbar send me the Ordinance . We are the ones that will be taking the action and therefore I think we would have to be the ones to 75 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 76 agree with the decision not to do an environmental impact state- ment . I happen to think not doing an environmental impact state- ment, in this case is the correct decision, there are impacts, but I don ' t think they are of the kind that would require an en- vironmental impact statement . You' ll notice this is called an environmental assessment - not an environmental impact statement that ' s a preliminary kind of procedure . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay? If we could have the vote . This is APPEAL NUMBER 16008 . VOTE : 1 YES; 4 NO; 1 ABSENT DENIED MR . BOOTH : I will make a motion to the contrary then . I move the Board deny the area variance and a variance from the parking setbacks as requested in appeal number 1600 . MS . JOHNSON: I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 17 Given the very difficult topographical layout of the lot, the minimum lot size deficiency is significant . 2 ) The property owner already has a reasonable and valuable use of the property currently in existence . 3) There are legitimate concerns about the aesthectic impact of this building on Cascadilla Gorge . VOTE ON #16OOC 4 YES; 1 NO; 1 ABSENT DENIED 76 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 77 SECRETARY HOARD : The next appeal is APPEAL NO . 1604 1311 EAST STATE STREET Appeal of M. D . and G . U . L . Morris for an area variance for deficient lot width and deficient setbacks for the front yard and both sideyards under Section 30 . 25, Columns 7, 11, 12, and 13 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the addi- tion of a small apartment within the existing single-family dwelling at 1311 East State Street . The property is located in an Rlb (Residential, single-family) Use District in which the proposed apartment is an approved use; however under Section 30 . 57 of the Zoning Ordinance the applicants must obtain area var- iances for the listed deficiencies before a building permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the new apartment . MR . MORRIS : Good evening . I am Gregory Morris, my father is out of town on business but I have both his proxy and his blessing to appear in his behalf . I have here a map of the lot which will outline its particular ramifications . The house is built on a pan handle and when it was built it and all the other houses of the immediate post war era were all in accordance with the build- ing codes of the times . The subsequent codes have placed the house in violation but it seems rather obvious that there is not a lot we can do about that . What we are trying to do with this apartment is to take a portion of unfinished basement space and make positive use of it . Some of the benefits to which we would derive from making this operation► are - I should rather say, some of the things that might be in your minds as to what the diffi- culties would be, is how this would affect the value of the house . In fact, I have spoke to Realtor Connie Lewis, who is the one who sold us the house, and she said that indeed just right 77 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 78 off the top of her head that such an apartment as I described to her, and is described in your appeals, would increase the value of the house by about $20, 000 . 00 book value . There would be - I don' t have any slides or any photographs of what the exterior changes of the house because there will be none . The alterations will all be interior . As a matter of fact, this operation would be a - the second phase of a two-part improvement of the house that we are doing . We have owned the house since September -that ' s why the map says John D . Rappalee - it is formerly . The house, when bought, was described by a friend of my fathers, Mr . John Matyas - excuse me, Robert Matyas - who I believe is a pre- vious member of this Board, as pregnant with possibilities and what we are trying to do is realize those possibilities . PJQ� des . We are not subdividing into little rabbit warrens for student housing, as many of the other neighborhoods around Ithaca have been deteriorated by, this operation doesn' t change the pop- ulation density of the community any more than my gaining a lit- tle brother would . It is a single, or at most, couple, dwelling space by dimension definitions., so we are not talking about mak- ing it a multiple-family dwelling, we are just talking about put- ting positive use to some currently unfinished area of the base- ment . It wouldn' t alter or change the character of the neighbor- hood, indeed by improving the value of the house and improving the family situation in the house, as is mentioned in the appeal, it would, we believe, in fact improve the value of the neighbor- hood . The laws as they are stated., are clear in their intent as 78 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 79 to keep people from piling houses one on top of the other and to keep reasonable living space between dwellings . Well as you can see, there is incredibly ample living space well out to the back - there are lawns and woods and there is parking for what the engineer estimated for at least a dozen cars and there is also a basketball court and all sorts of other exciting things - there is a stream and woods and basically the house is where it is and short of jacking it up,, which is rather impractical there is not a lot we can do about that . What we would like to do is improve this house, improve the neighborhood as a part of a general pro- ject or ongoing project of improving the entire house . And we ' ve got it, there is lots of room in it but it was in rather disre- pair and we are trying to improve the house, improve the neigh- borhood and we realize ;What the lot dimensions cannot be changed but we offer in exchange the fact that there is all this land elsewhere on the owner ' s property -so that sort of negates the confinement of the house . MR . BOOTH : Can I ask you a question? MR. MORRIS : Please. 1 MR . BOOTH : As I read the map, most of your property is in the Town of Ithaca and not the City of Ithaca . MR . MORRIS : That is correct . That is an approximate City line based on when the survey was done, but that is about correct: yes . MR , BOOTH: I don ' t read the density requirements of the Ordinance as applying to lands outside the City . Can you tell me 79 i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 80 what the dimensions are of the portion of your lot that is inside the City? MR . MORRIS : Well I don' t have that calculated now. I assume it could be done from the map dimensions . The - a rough estimate looks like . . . . MR . BOOTH : Tom, do you have any idea? Interesting questions that we have confronted before . Michael have we confronted that question? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Not within my memory . i SECRETARY HOARD : Easily meets the requirement of . . . MR . BOOTH : That ' s what I would guess . SECRETARY HOARD : Just this little narrow part here is seven thousand three hundred and eight - and they would be required to have seventy five hundred so all this down here is . . . MR . BOOTH : Is all of this yours too - behind? MR . MORRIS : Everything . . . MR . BOOTH : Other than those two lots? v MR . MORRIS : The two shoulder lots, as they appear if you hold the . . MR . BOOTH : Edward and Janet Conley . . . MR . MORRIS : And Eleanor Angers . . yes, all the rest of it in the large . . . MR . BOOTH: Including this - what I mean by "this" is the area . . MR . MORRIS : Yes this area is in the City of Ithaca and is ours, yes . MR . BOOTH: It is my guess that it well fits it . 80 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 81 MR . MORRIS : Basically what it is, there is the room there, the house was just crammed into one corner, now why it was built that way, you would have to 'ask the people who built it . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Stewart? MR. SCHWAB : No . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So, succinctly then your practical difficulty is . . MR . MORRIS : We would like to improve the house and by the law which - well, the Code, which was read, we cannot go about ob- taining a building permit until we resolve the problem of the house being in variation of side lot, and front lot deficiencies and were you to grant art allowance or variance based on the addi- tional room here and also based on what we intend to do with it, then we could proceed to make our improvements . It is just a matter of semantics . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of granting this variance? (no one) Is there anyone out there who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of this variance? Yes . MR . CONLEY ' My name is Edward J . Conley and I live at 1309 East State Street, next door neighbor of the applicant . The applicant has been a fine neighbor, bought the house last summer, moved in last fall and now is improving the property and in talking with my neighbors, all who received a letter, we are not convinced that adding an apartment improves the value of the neighborhood . I don' t doubt but what it would improve the value of his home and 81 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 82 i we are all concerned. All of the houses, 1305, 7 and 9, my house, on our side of the street are all single-family homes and always have been . The house on the other side, 1313 on the other side of him is a multiple but it has been ever since we bought the house, I ' ve lived there twenty-two years and it had been con- verted before that . All of the houses on the other side of the street are all single family homes . John Ewanicki ' s, Floyd Cronk ' s , I think there is one above that that might have an apartment in it, I ' m riot sure . And I know that when the zoning was changed back in ' 77, whey► we saw that we were R1, and then it was Rlb, and when asking about what is an Rib, in fact I would ask for that definition, what is the difference between R1 and Rlb? MR . BOOTH : Basically it relates to the amount of square footage required for one family versus two family houses . The square footage in la are considerably - the required square footages are considerably larger . For a single family dwelling it is ten thousand square feet, for a two-family dwelling it is fifteen thousand square feet . Whereas the corresponding figures in 18 are six thousand and seventy-five hundred . MR . CONLEY : Well, I ' m not so concerned about the amount of the land area - the use of - in R1 - R1 is single family . . . MR . BOOTH : It also allows two family . MR. CONLEY : In R1? MR. BOOTH : Yes . MR , CONLEY : In Rlb - what is the difference between R1 and Rlb 82 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 83 then? MR . BOOTH : It says right here. Here are the allowed uses . MR . CONLEY : Okay . And we were R1 prior to that change in 1977 . MR . BOOTH : An R1 allows two-family dwellings . And the basic difference is in what you see here - the square footage requirements . Two-family dwellings are allowed in R1 . MR . CONLEY : Well we are concerned, the neighbors are concerned because of the Morris property is not the only property that has lot deficiencies . We all are on basically small lots, for the area . In fact that house was built on a small lot - the addi- tional land that is out in the Town of Ithaca was bought long after that house was built . It was bought at that time, to pro- tect them from construction of houses in behind them - a road being built up through the Town of Ithaca so the neighbors got together and bought the property and divided it up and bought the property so that they could protect their single family neighbor- hood . And all the neighbors that I talked to, we didn ' t sign a petition, didn' t get letters and they didn' t all parade in here but we agreed that I would be a spokesman and come down, express their concerns to the Board that it is a single family neighbor- hood, we bought our houses because it was, we all raised our fam- ilies there, and we would like to retain it as a single family neighborhood and we feel that the value of the homes and the neighborhood is the fact that it ' s single family in nature . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions`' Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of 83 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 84 this variance? All right, we' ll move into deliberations . 84 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 85 DELIBERATIONS OF THE BOARD - APPEAL NO . 1604 MR . BOOTH : Well the zoning is very clear - it allows two family dwellings . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The use is permitted . MR . BOOTH : I certainly hear the concern and I can recognize that it is a legitimate one in a sense but the Zoning Ordinance is pretty clear . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay, then the question becomes, are the variances - the variance necessary for sufficient lot width and deficient setbacks - and both side yards - are those deficiencies substantial enough? Or are they not significant, are they modest? MS . FARRELL : Well, certainly the outside of the building wouldn ' t be changed by adding the apartment . This does seem to be an ideal candidate for Accessory Apartment - that ' s a different thing - we are not considering that right now . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That is a different thing . Well it is already assumed that the use is permitted, it ' s a question as to whether the deficiencies are . . . MR . SCHWAB : The only extra deficiency caused by an apartment is the one - the lot width . SECRETARY HOARD : That ' s right . MR . SCHWAB : Cause the existing house already violates the other three deficiency use and with no extra requirements - in other words, for front yard and side yard and other side yard for an apartment . Just the lot . . . 85 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 86 MR . BOOTH : It creates a deficiency by two feet as I read that, is that right Stewart? MR , SCHWAB : That ' s right . A two foot deficiency is the only extra deficiency caused by an apartment . It starts to sound minor - modest . Of course we are allowed to consider the whole thing aren ' t we - all the deficiencies . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right . No one particularly cares about what the neighbors think? Or is the evidence submitted by the neighbors sufficient to be considered? MS . FARRELL : Well we' ve heard from one neighbor, who was speaking for other neighbors but I think, unless we ' ve had letters or petitions or something like that, I think we should consider the testimony by one neighbor . MR . SCHWAB : I think it ' s fair to say that neighbors are concerned, I mean . . . MS . FARRELL : Well they may be but I really hesitate to say that unless I ' m seeing some more evidence, either brought in, like people writing or coming in . 1 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I bring that out because in the past, it has been our policy only to consider those things that are in front of us - kind of in black or white - or at least, as Tracy says, to see something more substantial from the neighbors rather than essentially not heresy but merely unsubstantiated testimony . MS . FARRELL : Not that they don' t feel that way, I mean . . . they probably do but I just . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: They may . 86 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 87 MR . BOOTH : But I think, whatever the numbers of people are that have spoken against it, I think we have a fair characterization of what the evidence would be had those other people been here . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: All I wanted to do was to air the various points . Are we coming any closer to a motion? MR . BOOTH : Tom there is a house on the other side of this that has an apartment in it, or several? SECRETARY HOARD : There is a house down in the Town of Ithaca . MR . BOOTH ' Not along State Street? MS , FARRELL : Is it over the border into the Town? SECRETARY HOARD : I think it is in the Town . MR , BOOTH : I see . Further- out State Street . Well I will make a motion . 87 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 88 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1604 1311 EAST STATE STREET The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of M . D . Morris and Gregory U . L . Morris for an area variance to permit the addition of a small apartment within the existing single-family dwelling at 1311 East State Street . The decision of the Board was as follows : MR . BOOTH: I move that the Board grant the area variance requested in Appeal Number 1604 with the condition that the apartment created be below the threshold allowed in the Zoning Ordinance or 50% . MS . FARRELL : I second the motion . FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) The proposed use is consistent with the Zoning Ordinance . 2 ) The proposed use has ample off-street parking to meet the proposed use . 3 ) With one exception the proposed use will not increase any existing deficiencies . 4) The one increased deficiency is in the area of lot width - it amounts to two ( 2 ' ) feet . This is a minor variance under these circumstances . 5) While there is evidence of opposition from neighbors, that evidence doesn' t appear to overcome the strong case made for granting a variance . 6 ) It would be very difficult for the owner to have to move the existing structure in a way that would comply with the various setback and lot width requirements . 88 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 90 SECRETARY HOARD : The next appeal is appeal no . 1605 - 717-717 . 5 WEST COURT STREET : Appeal of the Tompkins County Housing Task Force for an area variance for deficient off-street parking, deficient lot width , and deficient setback for one sideyard under Section 30 . 25, Columns 4, 7 and 12 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the conversion of the front building on the property at 717-717 . 5 West Court Street from a two-unit residence to a shelter for up to nine persons . The property is located in a B-4 (business) Use District in which the proposed use is permitted; however under Sections 30 . 49 and 30 . 47 of the Zoning Ordinance the applicant must obtain area variances for the listed deficiencies before a building permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the proposed conversion . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Beginning with identification . MS . JONES : My name is Anne Jones, I ' m chairman of the Housing Task Force . We are looking to purchase a piece of property on West State Street (sic ) which now consists of two buildings, three apartments . We would like to convert the main front facil- ity from two apartments into a single family unit for emergency shelter purposes and to retain, for the time being at least, an apartment in the rear building . We ar•e very aware of the fact that we must apply for this var-ianc:e, ' the piece of land isn ' t wide enough and the side yard is inadequate , We have -those are practical difficulties and then we have to add to that the fact that we have a shared driveway . We think that we can deal very well with the parking in terms of the back facility can have four spaces underneath the building and we get the fourth space by tearing out the very end wall which we are told is fairly decre- pit and is not a supporting piece so that we can get four cars in 90 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 91 there . We are looking for a shelter- for nine persons, there is always somebody on in the shelter - there is twenty-four hour staffing . That is a way of making sure that people in the shel- ter do not park in the shared driveway . We would like to be good neighbors, we have been through the neighborhood, if any of you are interested in the comments from the neighbors, all of those within the two hundred feet (200 ' ) . The main concern seems to be some of the late evening altercations over joint parking on a joint driveway . We think, that with the twenty-four hour staffing we think, that with our under cover parking spaces, plus the fact that we can, to the side of our neighbor ' s garage, store another car, plus the fact that we have another hundred feet in the back yard, that we should be able to arrange for any parking . I un- derstand how many spaces in the sense that we are required to 1 have, I would point out that somewhere in the neighborhood of five percent plus of our clients have cars and the staff does not live on the property . I haven' t been able . . . . MS . FARRELL : You are required to have five spaces and you have four spaces now? MS . JONES : We can have four spaces under cover . We can have an additional space - yes, you all have the maps - to the side of our neighbor ' s garage and into the back yard, if you will . MR . BOOTH : So you are saying it is possible to have the fifth space? MS . JONES : Absolutely . There is no - we understand the parking requirements . 91 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 92 MS . FARRELL : I just wonder why it was done this way on the worksheet Tom? SECRETARY HOARD : The worksheet was prepared pretty early in the . . . MS . FARRELL : Okay, so there has been a change since then . SECRETARY HOARD : A change from the earlier discussion . MR . SCHWAB : So you are saying you meet the parking requirements of five places? MS . JONES : By cleaning out the current owner ' s trash, out of the back facility, and it is a shambles, which is one of the reasons why we say that the property car► only go up - there can be -there are three bays currently and we intend to tear out the wall - the end wall of the third bay and by parking, we can get four cars within that . There is additional space beyond the shared driveway which can house an additional car and if we want to have more cars in the back yard we can certainly have them. The one thing, you know, we can control with our staff, we can control it with the spaces, the one thing that we really cannot do, is we cannot make the property any wider . I mean, I ,just haven ' t been able to think of a good way to do it . And so, you know, that is a practical difficulty . It certainly is of concern to the people with whom we share the driveway, it has to be . MR . BOOTH : You are saying your current experience is such that most of the clients do not come with cars? MS . JONES : Roughly five percent of our clients have vehicles . And essentially that is one of the reasons why we would like to 92 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 93 remain downtown, on the bus line, on the - most of them have to be able to use either their feet or public transportation . The only other . . . MR . SCHWAB : Who are your immediate neighbors - who is this neighbor that you are sharing the driveway with? MS . JONES : Are you looking for the name of the neighbor? MR. SCHWAB : Right . MS , JONES : The name of the neighbor is Robinson . MR . SCHWAB : Melvin and Linda Robinson? MS . JONES : That is correct . MR. SCHWAB : Okay. MR . BOOTH : And they have indicated their support, is that correct? MS . JONES : I have talked - they both worked, they have not been home when I - what I call "door knocking" - I have spoken with Mrs . Robinson, she is concerned about having a neighbor who would not pay any attention to her rights to use her driveway and I think she has every right to be concerned . MR . BOOTH : But in terms of the use itself, you haven ' t - this says "supportive of the variance and shelter relocation" . . . that is your understanding? MS . JONES : That is correct . We have had almost nothing in the way of objection to the allowed, but changed, use . MR . BOOTH : Thank you . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? I have just one . What is the intended length of stay, so to speak, I ' m wondering 93 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 94 let you know where I ' m going and then we can come back to that . I ' m wondering if it would be to our advantage - the City' s advan- tage - to permit, if we were to grant the variance, to specifi- cally your use of the buildings, subject to whenever you no long- er have it, being almost reverting to the present scenerio - do you have any problems with that:' My thought is that it is large- ly residential area and though it is a permitted use within the area, the character of the neighborhood would be effectively -could be at some point in the future, were you to dispose of the property, could be effectively changed by someone else getting it -perhaps not taking care of it in the same way . MS . JONES : (CHANGED TAPE HERE; SOME OF THE CONVERSATION MISSED) use, that is a particular kind of population, is that your question? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Precisely. MS . JONES : Okay . As you know, this particular program is administered by the Red Cross . The Housing Task Force technically is not a direct service organization - we have a contract - we pay them to do it . Is that - if you are asking me -maybe ten years from now there won' t be any need for an emergency shelter - CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s what I ' m saying, or perhaps you will move to some other location . Disposal of the property from our point of view - the question in my mind is, it may mean that someone else will pick up the property and do something else with it and I ' m just wondering if you weren' t on safer ground by 94 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 95 essentially conditioning the proposed granting of the variance, to the Red Cross, to the Tompkins County Housing Task Force . Do you see any questions about that? MS . JONES : Not really . Certain of the houses on that particular street are single family . Perhaps a single family would buy that - the piece out in back could be considered income for a single family in the front , I think: there are things which are going to be done to the building inside which should improve it and I think there are things that are going to be done to the outside which should improve it and I think that it ' s current use as a shelter managed in the way that we expect it to be managed, real- ly tries to act in accordance with the Ordinance . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Thank. you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the granting of the variance? Come forward . `J MS . CLAVEL : My name is Anne Clavel, I ' m an attorney who is work- ing with the Task Force in purchase of this property . I guess when I was hearing you talk, ask Anne about the limitations on the extent of the variance, I am concerned . In the first place, the Board is considering the possibility of turning the property over to the Red Cross after we' ve purchased it and renovated it so that the Housing Task Force., which will now be the owner, can be released from the duty of monitoring this house and go on and do something else . The purpose of the house is for a residence for the homeless - or a shelter for the homeless . The City of Ithaca is giving us $30, 000 . 00 toward purchase of the house . The 95 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 96 Gannatt Foundation is giving us I think, 880, 000 . 00 toward pur- chase of the house and the renovation of it . And the purpose of both of these grants is for shelter for the homeless . I guess I would be concerned if you were to limit the variance so that if we, say, within the next six months or a year, turn it over to the Red Cross, they have to go through this procedure again . I mean, we would only turn it over to be used as a shelter for the homeless - I mean, that ' s the emergency shelter - is the purpose of the use of it . But MR . BOOTH : What about if we limited it to that? MS . CLAVEL : I beg your pardon? MR . BOOTH : What if we conditioned the variance on being granted for the purpose of being a home for homeless people? MS . CLAVEL : Well I suppose that would be all right . But I was i thinking, for instance, suppose somebody wanted to be - to use it in some future time, for a boarding house, which it would certainly - as it is now, it is equivalent to a boarding house, I I mean as we propose the use of it, it is equivalent - it ' s a transient use so it is equivalent to a boarding house . MR , BOOTH : There is potentially more closely managed, with fewer cars . . . MS . CLAVEL : Yes - well no, the car- amount would be the same no matter who was in it . I suppose if a one family house had it, there would be fewer cars . But I don' t think we would object so much if you limited it to shelter but my sense is that nobody is going to do any outside construction on this building and anytime 96 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 97 anybody comes back to you, it ' s going to be difficult for you not to grant a variance but, you know, if you want to have some con- trol over how it ' s used and make sure that the neighbors are up- set, I don ' t think that we would have an objection but at this point, I certainly wouldn' t think that it would be wise to limit it to just to the Task Force or just to the Red Cross, because, you know, they may find some agency which wants to manage the shelter and continue it as a shelter for the homeless, you know, emergency shelter . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Thank you . fs there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the granting of the variance? Please come forward? MS . SILVERMAN: My name is Diedre Silverman, I ' m the Coordinator of the emergency shelter . One thing that I think is important for you to understand, especially in terms of future use of the building is that what we will be doing to the building is, in a sense, converting it back: into a single family residence . As it is now/ the staircase between the first floor apartment and the second floor apartment has been closed off and the entrances are in the rear - rather unstable staircases . What we will be doing is reopening the front entrance and reopening the internal stair- case so that if it were not to continue to be used as an emergen- cy shelter, it would at that point be much more suitable for a one family house than for a two family house . In connection with that, the two buildings, as they are now occupied, have a total a of eleven people . The average occupancy with us using them will 97 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 98 be seven or eight people, so what we are actually doing is de- creasing the density of that property . Okay? MR . BOOTH : You spoke in terms of nine people . MS . SILVERMAN: That is a maximum in the shelter, in the front building, yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? MS . FARRELL : I have one question . When you are talking about renting the apartment in the back, you are talking about renting it just to long-term tenants at this point? MS . SILVERMAN: We are talking about renting in, what is called, transitional housing . Some of our clients are not quite ready to move into the regular housing market, they need a little more time and a little supervision, but longer than we can provide in the emergency shelter . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Stewart? Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the granting of the variance? Yes . Anyone who would like to speak in opposition? MR . ROBINSON: I ' m Melvin Robinson, owner of the property next door . I don ' t have any qualms or quarrels with the people that are buying the home, as far- as that goes, maybe it will improve some of the land next door but the driveway is a problem. What we have, if you picture this area of this table as the parking area, I am the driveway, when you come in, straight down that driveway, seventy-five percent of that land belongs to me . On the opposite side you have maybe a twelve foot area that goes against the house, which they can park in . As of now, you can 98 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 99 line two cars in line with no trouble, or go further into the yard but what ' s going to happen if they want to use those gar- ages, they are going to be in to where I park my pickup truck or my wife' s car, because I have a three-quarter ton truck and my ' wife has a car and I also have a camper in the same area . And before long it will be worse yet because I ' m going to be purchas- ing a twenty-one foot motor home and they definitely won' t get into those garages . MS . FARRELL : I ' m confused . You share a driveway . You are saying it is your driveway? MR . ROBINSON* Well, what it is., the driveway is divided right directly down the middle . MS . FARRELL : Okay, so each of you owns half the driveway? MR . ROBINSON: That ' s right . ' MS . FARRELL : Then what happens? MR . ROBINSON' Okay, when you get to the very back of where the parking is, it widens out . In the middle of the driveway to the right side of it, most of that land belongs to me, off to the ! left is a narrow strip of land about twelve foot wide, which goes deep, which is available for their parking . So if I pull directly into the driveway - which I ' m still on my land, even though it is divided down the middle - they don' t have any room to swing to go into those garages . MS . FARRELL : I see . MR . ROBINSON: And I ' ve been in that home for forty years now, because my father owned it first, and the driveway is very soft . 99 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 100 It takes me at least two ton of store every spring to maintain the driveway because if you start turning around in it, it chews it all to pieces - it is very soft . A couple of feet down you' ve got water so the driveway doesn' t take much turning and cutting back and forth . But if they went further out in the yard possi- bly they could use that - it is soft out there though, but they could go further back . MS . FARRELL : So back, behind where the driveway - straight back behind the garage . . . MR . ROBINSON' Right . If they could go through there but those garages, they couldn' t definitely use . Because over the years we have parked there . My father has and they have used those gar- ages and they can ' t get out . And I have the kind of job - I work for Morse-Emerson, I ' m on twenty-four hour call - other than my normal shift, I ' ve got to go in and out of that driveway all hours of the night - I ' m a member of the Fire Department, and I go to a lot of motor vehicle accidents and I don ' t have time - in other words, I have ten minutes either way, either for a fire call or to get to Morse Chain if a gas break or whatever - so I don ' t have time to look for somebody if they ' ve got the driveway blocked off or in their garage and I ' m trying to get a couple minutes sleep for the night, see, before I have to go back again . But you just can ' t use those garages, the way it is set up now . MS . FARRELL : Because when they swing to get in the garage, they would be hitting your vehicles which are parked on your property? MR . ROBINSON: That is correct . And the driveway would be so 100 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 101 I badly torn up, it is just too much money to black top it, but it is just easier for me to load a ton of stone in my pickup and I groom it down every year and I keep it in nice shape, see? But every year - it has to be done because those stone sink right out of shape so I ' ll let you know the driveway doesn' t hold very long -for turning around in it . MR . BOOTH : Will it hold your twenty-one foot motor home? MR . ROBINSON: Right . And another thing that concerns me, I un- derstand they are going to have supervision . In the further back part of the yard I have a si•x.teen by thirty-two swimming pool, it is above ground . But with children around and with those stones they have a temptation to throw stones into the pool . I haven ' t had any trouble with the neighbors now because ninety percent of the people that live around there, I ' ve known their children - and they are grandparents, see, and they know me and so forth, and we get over the problem of throwing stones into the pool, but I feel if a child is coming through for a couple of days and he sees these stones, over they go in that large volume of water, which, you know, I think if they are - they ' ve got to be super- vised though, because they will do it, believe me . MS . FARRELL : I have a question . If they agree to fix the driveway - solidify the driveway, or whatever - blacktop the driveway, would that make a - and then would there be enough room to get around to the back and par-king places were made in that back part . . . MR . ROBINSON' Yes they could go straight back further, yes . 101 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 102 MS . JOHNSON: And how much room would there be for how many parking places back there? MR . ROBINSON: Oh God, you could put ten or twelve cars back there . MS . JOHNSON: But you can' t get through there right now? MR . ROBINSON: No, you wouldn' t be able to go into those garages . MS . FARRELL : You could still go on (unintelligible) MR . ROBINSON: Right, you could still go straight back, though . MR . BOOTH : Could they alter the garages so you could go straight back and then come back in the back end? MR . ROBINSON: I don' t believe so, no . You' d have to redo the house . You see everything - every one of those three garages is facing directly onto my property, which - I pull up at this matter here, say, so if they backed up, you only have about twelve feet or so . MS . JOHNSON: I know, I drove in there to check it out . I could barely get my little Toyota pulled in . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? MR . ROBINSON: It ' s been a problem over the years with - but like I say, most generally the people will stay there for a certain amount of time and after awhile they don' t turn around in the yard, because I ' m not trying to be mean with them, but it is just soft and it tears it all to pieces and, you know, you can ' t use the garage . MS . JOHNSON: So your main concern is the stability of the driveway and the parking? 102 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 103 MR . ROBINSON : That is correct, right . MS . JOHNSON: It ' s not the use? MR . ROBINSON: No . I don' t care as long as they are on their side and I can get in and out, there is no problem with me . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition? MR . ROMANOWSKI : I ' m Bob Romanowski, First Ward Alderman and I took my own survey - went all the way around the block and talked with everybody . There is no substantial opposition to the in- tended use . The comments were mostly it will improve the house and improve the neighborhood . There were concerns though . The parking, especially for the Robinson family, the increase in the number of transients to the neighborhood was mentioned a couple of times, they are afraid of maybe the people are transient in nature will come through and perhaps - something bad would hap- pen . And the other was the liability to the children in the fa- cility . Because of this pool and no fencing, who would be liable if a kid went through fencing and over and fell into the pool? Mrs . Slate on the other side, which is the east side, also ex- t pressed delight that they would change the house or have some- thing different than what she has been concerned with or contend- ing with but she would like, if this facility is put in, some sort of reassurance that that fencing between the properties is maintained and kids don ' t come over and damage her . . . other than that, I am not in opposition to it, but I think I should - I thought I should bring up what the people mostly had comments on . i 103 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 104 Like I say, there is no substantial opposition at all to the in- tended use . The concerns are the parking and the liability and - were foremost in - some of the other neighbors - it is a pretty protective neighborhood and they are long term residents and they sort of look out for each other, so . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions from members of the Board? Thank you Bob . MR . ROMANOWSKI : Thank you very much . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to granting the variance? MR . BOOTH : Would it be wise to have Mrs . Jones come back and speak to the parking? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Would you like to have her? MR . BOOTH : I would like to . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: A member of the Board has asked Mrs . Jones to come forward and address the question of the parking, particularly with respect to the Robinson' s property . MRS . JONES : Yes . MR . BOOTH ' You heard the concerns . MRS . JONES : They are absolutely legitimate . MR . BOOTH : Can they be dealt with without having to turn across that narrow driveway? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Or picking up the entire garage and moving it back on the lot? What are the options? MS . JONES : Wait a minute . We have to be able to get through that driveway into the back yard and we have worked on the 104 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 105 assumption that the extension of the driveway, if you will, was wide enough to take a car through into the yard. Now, am I saying something different from your question? MR . BOOTH : Well, what I hear him saying is that when people back out of those garages . . . MS . FARRELL : Have you tried it? MS . JONES : No I haven ' t because the people in the back apartment now have two cars for that apartment which they park, so that nobody can go nowhere . And I drive a small tin can and I have not been able to get through but I haven' t been down there in order to do it, either . MR . BOOTH : As I understand Mr . Robinson' s concern, if people use those garages, they will turn out into his driveway . MS . FARRELL : Into more than his driveway, into his yard where he has got his truck parked . MR . BOOTH : That ' s right, into his yard . MS . JONES : I can ' t tell you whether that happens or not, I can understand why, if somebody comes down in a big hurry that they could create a problem. I didn' t realize it was going to be so congested in the back yard either . MS . JOHNSON: I drove back there and I could not back up and turn around and get out without backing considerably into his back area where he keeps his cars - in fact I could barely make it out . So I can see there is a real concern . What I was wondering about was, is there room to get - I didn' t see any space to get into this back yard area . Is it possible 105 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 106 MS . JONES : At the side of the garage . There is the swimming pool and the garage . There is an area which - I ' m not sure whether the juxtaposition is a hundred - I ' m saying is a hundred percent correct - but when you go into the driveway, you have to be able to go on through into the back yard . That ' s the only way we can get into that yard . MR . BOOTH : You are talking about back here where this chain link fence shows? MS . JONES : Correct . MR . BOOTH : Could you pave an area back there for five parking spaces? MS . JONES : We could . MR . BOOTH : Would that be acceptable? Doable? MS . JONES : It would be doable - I assume it will be expensive . There is nothing which is undoable . MR . BOOTH : I think - doable - from the perspective of your organization? MS . JONES : Yes, it will mean something else like the chair lift to get people in on the front porch won' t get put in . You know, there are going to be some trade-offs - there is no point - and if parking is the trade-off for that piece of property for this use then, you know, that ' s the way it is . Our purchase of the property is dependent upon a variance . MS . FARRELL : How much room is there in this back yard? MS . JONES : Okay . The driveway - we are looking at the same map, okay? The piece of driveway - the depth of the property from the 106 r BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 107 street all the way to the back is either one hundred and ninety eight or two hundred and eight and if the length of the shared driveway is one hundred, then we have been calculating that we had roughly another hundred at thirty-seven feet . MS . FARRELL : That ' s a hundred and then it ' s about thirty-seven? MS . JONES : Yes, along the back fence it ' s thirty-seven and along the street it ' s thirty-seven . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? MS . FARRELL : What about the issue of the driveway being very soft? Would you be willing to pave the driveway? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Or help p y the driveway? MS . JONES ' How much does it cost to pave a driveway? SECRETARY HOARD : A lot . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Quite a bit, I would imagine . MS . JONES : I certainly think that we could be very interested in looking in to working out some kind of an arrangement . 1 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s what we are interested in hearing . MS . JONES : Okay . When I have been down there I have usually parked across the street . I haven' t always even come into the driveway . So I don' t know about the underfoot quality in the month of April . I can imagine it is awful . MS . FARRELL : My other question is, is there other parking available in the neighborhood, to rent, or anything like that? If this becomes too much of an issue to pave? MS . JONES : If to pave in the back yard, it is possible that we could make an arrangement with that not for profit corporation 107 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 108 who lives across the street . MS . FARRELL : Gad About? a� CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: We saw them last month . . . MR . BOOTH : I think they are going to be busy MS . FARRELL : At that point they had adequate parking but . . MS . JONES : I have - there has been contact, we have been trying to think of how we could take care of it ourselves so I have no right to commit them. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Fine . Further questions? Thank you Anne . I wanted to ask the members of the Board if you would like to hear from Mr . Robinson one more time s a form of rebuttal if you want to think about it that way, it is up to your pleasure . MR . BOOTH : If he wishes to, fine . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: All right, well I think perhaps we have heard enough, one way or the other . There being no further testimony then we would want to go on to deliberating . And I suppose we should probably go back to the basic questions one more time . 108 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 109 DELIBERATIONS OF THE BOARD - APPEAL NO . 1605 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Deficient off-street parking, deficient lot width and deficient set back for one side yard . We ' ve heard a lot of things, how do they relate? MR . SCHWAB : Well I think deficient side yard and lot width, again are not changed by this use because they are not changing the exterior at all and it is not increased by shifting to this use . I think the key is just the parking rather than the other deficiencies . MS . FARRELL : That ' s partly that side yard deficiency (unintelligible) shared driveway and all the other parking problems . MR . SCHWAB : Yes, okay, so maybe they are connected . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: What ' s the practical difficulty? MR . BOOTH : Well the practical difficulty in terms of the measurements is the standard one, difficult to move the building . Sounds to me like we could shape this thing so that there is not a deficiency in parking . MS . FARRELL : It sounds like there is enough room in the back to do that . . . . MR . BOOTH : Well we can condition it, either by doing that or requiring parking some place else? Tom, do you have a sense of whether there are possibilities down there? MS . FARRELL : How about the parking, Tom? SECRETARY HOARD : You mean Gadabout? MR , BOOTH : Gadabout seems to be pretty busy, even what we heard 109 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 110 a month ago . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN' That ' s right . MS , FARRELL : There are some other parking lots there but what about parking in the rear , does that seem uncomfortable? SECRETARY HOARD : I think it ' s possible, sure . MR . BOOTH : Is it undesireable? SECRETARY HOARD : From a Zoning Ordinance standpoint? No . MR . BOOTH : From any other standpoint that you know about? MR . SCHWAB : Well the ease - now to get to the back yard, you ' ve got to go beyond the driveway easement, is that true'? MS . FARRELL : Yes . MR , SCHWAB : So you' ve got to go on to Mr . Robinson ' s property? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right . MS . FARRELL : Yes, continued on to, yes . MR . SCHWAB : Beyond what they now have the right to? MR . BOOTH : Well no . You just move on to their property - twelve feet wide, as I understand it . MR . SCHWAB : Okay . MS . FARRELL : Don ' t you have to continue down there a little bit more to get over there? MS . JOHNSON: That can' t be twelve feet wide, there - to get into there, cause that is the edge of the (unintelligible) CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: It occurs to me during the course of this discussion, and I just throw this out for general consideration, that without having cleaned out the trash and really given it a try, we may be leading down a path of hope and not really 110 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 111 substance . MR . BOOTH : You know the trash back at the end of the driveway . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Yes, I just kind of wonder if anyone feels that kind of basic reaction and I wonder if, following that down, continuance isn ' t the best resort, though I hate, as much as anyone else to continue any particular case, I am wondering if additional evidence wouldn' t help resolve the question . And further whether the appellant in negotiation with Mr . Robinson couldn ' t come up with I think, a more acceptable solution rather than leaving us in the position of arbitrator . MS . JOHNSON: I would agree with that . I think it is necessary to see that and really have a better plan before we can understand what . . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m left a bit confused by the specifics because there are so few specifics, of the diagram. And, more particularly on site, I ' m just a little uncertain, given the reservtions expressed by Mr . Robinson and his proposed, what shall we say, intensification of that driveway . Intensified use . Am I all wet? MR . BOOTH : Why don ' t you ask the appellant if they would be willing to defer this until next month? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well is that your feeling? MR . BOOTH : I ' m perfectly prepared to approve this thing, subject to the condition that they provide parking in the back yard for five cars . But it might be more reasonable from their point of view to explore that and then come back . I ' m willing to do it 111 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 112 either way . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Stewart? MR . SCHWAB : Of course, we can ask them, I ' m sure they want to get on with this - buying this land . If we approve this on the condition that they provide five parking places, then what happens? Presumably they negotiate with Mr . Robinson or pave it or rent from Gadabout, or figure out something and we are all done with it? SECRETARY HOARD : Well they would have to meet the conditions of the variance before they get a permit . MR . SCHWAB : Before they could get a permit . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You see, it puts us in the place of really defining the specifics - the specific conditions of granting the variance and I am perfectly willing to get into that if, in fact, you want to spend the time here now to do it . I ' m just thinking a quicker way might be to ask them to defer, to come up with a reasonable solution between themselves . . . MR . SCHWAB : Indeed it is only two weeks . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well it is only two weeks . SECRETARY HOARD : We wouldn ' t have the minutes by then . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m just asking if it is held over we can consider it at the next meeting which would be two weeks . True? SECRETARY HOARD : You could hold it over . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: With Clinton West we did that, exactly . Is that your sense or are you content to go ahead? MS . JOHNSON: I would be in favor, of that, I ' d rather not decide 112 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 113 whether there is space there for them to do that . I ' d rather have them come up with the alternatives . MR . BOOTH : Why don ' t you ask them if they would be willing to come back (unintelligible) CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I shall . Mrs . Jones, you ' ve heard our discussion . MS . JONES : Some of it, it ' s very difficult to hear in this room . I don ' t know how the Court holds up . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I can ' t imagine either . I imagine they have their speakers on and all the rest . MS . JONES : So I ' ve heard some of the questions . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Our concern is that we are getting into a situation where we are trying to arbitrate between the proposed use and disposition of the property that you are looking at versus Mr . Robinson . We are wondering if you wouldn ' t be amenable to deferring until this Board meets again in two weeks . In the meantime, sit down with Mr . Robinson and put together what would amount to be the conditions or, in effect, agreement between the two of you as to the disposition► of that right-of-way and more specifically, your parking . The questions revolving your parking on the rear of that lot . Does that seem something you could live with - is two weeks too much to ask or perhaps this effort? MS . . JONES : I ' m not going to be here in two weeks . That ' sfago, c�' S don ' t worry about that . Could I ask, first of all, a question? How did we get to five parking spaces? If there are six rooms in 113 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 114 the front building, I mean, if that is your decision, that ' s fine, I ' m just trying to figure out how we got there . MR . BOOTH : What we have is one for every three transients - one for staff and one for the rental unit, for a total of five . MS . JONES : Okay . The only reason I ask the question is, we have been working on one for each two bedrooms and therefore that would be four parking spaces . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well we have five on our worksheet, according to what is required . MS . JONES : Okay, that ' s fine . That ' s how we got to five . Now what is your request in terms of joint paving of the driveway? Is that a request? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m not sure that that has to be part of the request - no that is not part of our request . What we are requesting is that you sit down with Mr . Robinson and resolve the question of access for him and parking for you, that is the five spaces required beyond and outside of the four car garage scenerio . So that you don ' t run into conflicts with his projected use of his property . MS . JONES : Okay,. No, I don ' t have any problem with sitting down and talking to anybody, okay? I don' t know whether the gentleman from whom we are supposed to be buying the property has a problem or not and I have - we will have - I have to resolve that . Okay? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay . MS . JONES : And it - and we will sit down and talk . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay, so you are amenable to the deferral for i 114 i . BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 115 two weeks? MS . JONES : That ' s fine . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Fine . Thank you . 115 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 116 MOTION ON APPEAL NO . 1605 - 717-717 . 5 WEST COURT STREET MR . BOOTH : I move that the Board defer action on appeal number 1605 until the next meeting, April 1 : 1985: so that the matter of a ,joint right-of-way can be worked out with the neighboring property owner . MS . FARRELL ' I second the motion . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: All in favor? VOTE : 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT MOTION CARRIED 116 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 117 SECRETARY HOARD : The next case is APPEAL NO . 1606 - 409-15 THIRD STREET Appeal of Taynton Freight System, Incorporated, for a use variance under Section 30 . 25, Column 2 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the construc- tion of a gasoline service station and a car wast; at 409-15 Third Street (Taynton ' s Truck: Termin- al) . ermin- al . The current use as a warehouse of the main building would be continued under the "grand- father• rights" . The property is located in a 82a (business ) Use District in which neither of the proposed new uses is a permitted use; therefore the appellant must obtain a use variance for the proposed new uses before building permits can be issued for the new construction. MR . MATHIS : My name is Russell P . Mathis, I represent the Tayn- ton Freight System, the owner of the property and Mr . Andree rep- resents the proposed buyer of the property . We ' ve owned the property for a number of years and we have ceased using it as a truck terminal . Back in October of 1983 . We have no further economic use for it, we have a much larger and more efficient terminal in Horseheads which we use to give better service to the City of Ithaca . We ' ve been trying to sell it for the last year and a half and Mr . Andree has an interest in it and he could probably explain the use that he would put it to . MR . ANDREE : We propose to use the current building pretty much as it is now, storage, warehouse, office space, which, as far as I know, through Tom, we are still allowed to do . It is my under- standing that we are also able to have a convenience store there and a car wash, the way it is zoned now . What we are really try- ing to get is the ability to have gasoline in conjunction with those . Going back a little bit, in the past, use has been a 117 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 118 freight terminal to store freight, a small group of offices and the large parking lot . What we are hoping to be able to do is leave the building that is there, there, add a gasoline - a mo- dern fueling station, not just gas pumps . We' d have gasoline and diesel fuel - we would like to have a small convenience store and a car wash . We ' d also like to have a twenty-four hour banking terminal, ATM terminal, card acceptor . I ' ve gotten pictures of just exactly the piece of land and the neighbors that are around it . There is Grossmans on the other side of the road, Haver- sticks, there is Ithaca Scrap on one side, Ithaca Department of Water and Sewer on the other side, Bowling Alley and Norton Elec- tric behind it . You can pass those around . It would be, the ingress and egress would be easy off of Route 13 - there is a light there, there is plenty of room for people to pull off, go over to the property where the station would be located, get their fuel, wash their car , whatever they are going to do, get turned around and get back on, using the light . It is really - from the Buffalo Street and 13 intersection - there really isn ' t another station that is directly on 13 until you get to Dryden . There is a block or so off, or if you go to Triphammer you can exit and follow the signs but for direct access or visibility there isn ' t one . MR . BOOTH : But how far, is the one, the other way on 13? MR . ANDREE : The other way on 13? MR . BOOTH : Going south . MR . ANDREE : From Buffalo Street . 118 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 119 MR . BOOTH : Yes . MR . ANDREE : Right there on Buffalo Street . MR . BOOTH : No, from this site, it is only a few hundred feet . MR . ANDREE : From the Taynton site going south? MR . BOOTH : Yes, or maybe a half a mile . MR . ANDREE : Well, Buffalo Street . Yes, half a mile probably . MS . FARRELL : There is also the one that ' s - it is not on 13 but it is about a block away. MR . ANDREE : Right, that ' s ours . MR . MATHIS : When we were operating it as a truck terminal there were fuel tanks there and we did pump gasoline from those tanks at that time . We stopped doing that prior to the time that we stopped using that as a truck terminal . There were tanks in the ground, I believe there still is one tank in the ground there now, not a pump . MS . FARRELL : For clarification, the only variance you need is for a gas station . The warehouse is grandfathered and the businesses are allowed, right? MR . ANDREE : Correct . This is not, obviously, the colors or the brand, but this just gives you some idea of - when I say a modern station, with canopied pumps, small convenience store - it may be hard to picture if you are not really aware of what I am talking about . Obviously it will be different colors and a different configuration but that ' s to give you some idea of what we are talking about . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Would you address more specifically the points 119 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 120 which must be considered by this Board in the granting of a use variance - that is strict application of the Ordinance produces undue hardship and the hardship created is unique and not shared by all of the properties in the immediate vicinity in the use district . Do you see, could you elaborate to some degree on that -either one of you? MR . MATHIS : I can cover it from our point of view - we ' ve had it up for sale and it didn ' t seem to be saleable. We have an agree- ment with Mr . Andree where he - if he can obtain the variance - would buy the property from us . We have no further need for it, it is in disrepair at the present time and it seems to me person- ally that it would enhance the section of town there if it was brought up to date and modernized . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : The Planning Board recommended that there be a denial because this was assumedly a buffer zone intended to screen a heavy commercial area from a residential zone . Do you have any comment on that? MR . MATHIS : I don' t know that much about your town, but it appears that there is further commercial use of the land between us and the residential section . MR . ANDREE : Well there is a station that we are currently runn- ing - I guess it is a block behind - if you go toward the creek, there is the Department of Water and Sewer, if you go the other way, there is the junk yard, if you go the other way there is Route 13, Grossmans and Haverstick, so it would seem to me to be surrounded by commercial property . It would seem that opposite a 120 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 121 junk yard, anything would improve what we have there now . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further, just because I am looking ahead at other objections, it ' s apparent that the Hancock Plaza property people believe that in fact there is a gas station close by and there are a number of other questions associated with the site . It has a history of being a traffic hazard . . . MR . ANDREE : That is why they put the light there . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Do you feel as though most of those particular concerns - I assume you have seen those concerns or heard them prior . MR . ANDREE : Yes, we were the main concern putting the light there because the transports were coming in loaded with gasoline and turning and crossing with no light . Also, I don ' t believe they are within two hundred feet away . They are more than two hundred feet away . Isn ' t that correct? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You should know, you notified them. MR . ANDREE : That ' s right, that ' s why I know . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Further questions from the Board? MR . ANDREE : Does that complaint stand or is that . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well I think that is one of the things we want to consider - it is only a matter - I ' m giving you an opportunity to rebut so that we don' t have an extended back and forth later on, if at all possible . MR . ANDREE : Well the traffic situation at that intersection was bad until they put the light there. It seems to have cleared up considerably since the light was put there , As far as another 121 BZA . MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 122 gas station, you are right, there is another gas station and we operate it and we have for the past four years and . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So you are going to keep both of them going? MR . ANDREE : Definitely not . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You would close down the one on Hancock Plaza? MR . ANDREE : I mean, we don' t own it so we would not run it . Somebody else may own it and operate it . We' ve tried anything and everything that we could think of from cash to credit to cash and credit to different hours, to a twenty-four hour, card opera- ted control system, which we have now, which has improved it but it has absolutely no visibility from 13, they are allowed no signs - equipment is ' old, it just is not a profitable station . MR . BOOTH : If you can ' t put the gas station in, will you operate the other aspects of this facility? MR . ANDREE : Don ' t know, I haven' t decided that yet . The gas definitely ties the whole - ties all of them together - that ' s the draw to get them there and then they can do more than one thing - banking, car wash, milk, beer, soda, cigarettes, whatever they need . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: No further questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else out there who would like to speak in favor of granting the variance? Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of the variance? Deliberation . 122 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 123 DELIBERATIONS OF THE BOARD - APPEAL NO . 1606 MS . FARRELL : There are a lot of uses that that land can be used for in that zone . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That is true . MS . FARRELL : I ' m not convinced that the owner could not get a reasonable return on the property if it was used as it is zoned especially if the warehouse is grandfathered . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I find somewhat mystifying, as I always do, but more particularly this time, the Planning Board' s denial on such -do you have any further information on that? Moved to recommend denial simply on the buffer zone concept . There were no significant or compelling reasons to allow an exception to the Zoning Ordinance in this instance . MR . BOOTH : Well I think that that ' s certainly the specific issue, they are applying for a use variance . As Tracy said, there are a number of other uses and there has been no showing that those other uses are not available . ' MS . FARRELL : As a matter of fact, I mean, we are talking about a lot of different uses that are still being proposed to be done there . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well if it is that cut and dried we should have no difficulty with the motion . 123 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 124 DECISION - APPEAL NO . 1606 - 409-15 THIRD STREET The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Mr . Robert Andree for a use variance to permit the construction of a gasoline service station and a car wash at 409-15 Third Street . The decision of the Board was as follows : MS . FARRELL : I move that we deny the use variance requested in appeal number 1606 . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I second the motion . FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) The proposed use is not allowed in the zone . 2) The owner has not shown that he couldn' t receive a reasonable return on the property if it is used for one of the uses for which it is zoned . 3 ) No demonstration was shown that the hardship created was unique to this property alone . i VOTE : 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT DENIED 124 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 125 SECRETARY HOARD : The next appeal is APPEAL NUMBER 1607 - 428 NORTH TITUS AVENUE Appeal of Fred E . , Schwartz for a use variance under Section 30 . 25, Column 2, and an area variance for deficient lot area and width, excessive lot coverage, and deficient setbacks for both sideyards and the rear yard under Section 30 . 25, Columns 6, 7, 10, 12, 13, and 14 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit an addi- tion to the plumbing shop and dwelling unit at 428 North Titus Avenue . The property is loca- ted in an R2a (Residential, one- and two-fami- ly) Use District in which the plumbing shop is not a permitted use, but exists under a previ- ously granted use variance . Under Sections 30 . 47 and 30 . 57, the appellant must therefore obtain a use variance for expansion of the plumbing shop, as well as an area variance to expand the nonconforming building before a building permit can be issued for the proposed expansions . SECRETARY HOARD : I have been told that he is not adding to the plumbing ,shop so I ' d like to correct that . The appellant does not need a use variance since he is not expanding the plumbing shop . MR . SCHWARTZ : I ' m Fred Schwartz . My father owns the building . I operate Schwartz Plumbing and Heating which is the Plumbing Shop on the first floor . What we are proposing to do is to, if you have seen the drawings is to remove an existing section of the building that is in disrepair and expand the apartment on the second floor as an overhang under which we would have parking, additional parking for two vehicles . So actually, in a sense, we are actually cutting back on the plumbing shop, which takes up the entire first floor, in terms of the building and providing additional parking for that . And expanding the apartment above 125 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 126 to enlarge it and provide it with two bedrooms instead of one bedroom, as it exists currently . So I believe that the variance is necessary primarily, if not only, for the increase in the num- ber of bedrooms and the density . I should point out that we have already obtained a building permit for the demolition aspect of the work and have gone ahead and proceeded with that because that was going to be done regardless of the outcome of the zoning ap- peal and also, regardless of the outcome of the zoning appeal, the apartment is going to be renovated, for which we have a buil- ding permit . But, in the course of the planning, it was deter- mined that we could fairly easily and nicely increase the apart- ment to two bedrooms and make better use of the building, so we decided to go ahead and do that . Basically, I guess, the ques- tions I ' m to address are the practical difficulties which, as I understand it, involve the area use and the deficiency in side yards and the inability to relocate the building . The building was built, of course, long before the zoning ordinance was insti- tuted . We feel that the intent of the project is very consistent with the neighborhood . There are one and two family houses sur- rounding it and there are some owner-occupied and some non-owner- occupied surrounding it . I have always found in renting the apartments that it is a desireable location and I frequently have been asked for additional units that were vacant or whether we had two bedroom rather than one bedroom units, so I feel that it will serve the tenant population , I ' d also like to point out that the project is part of an overall improvement in the build- 126 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 127 ing that we are going to substantially upgrade the exterior ap- pearance of the building as it faces the surrounding properties and in general, bring the building more into line with standards of the surrounding neighborhood . I don' t think there is anything else that I can present . I would appreciate the Board asking - bringing up points that I maybe should have brought up and have not . MR . BOOTH : I want to be very clear . You are not proposing to expand the plumbing operation? MR. SCHWARTZ : No . Let me MR . BOOTH : That is on the first floor . MR . SCHWARTZ : The first floor . The drawings - the elevation drawing showing the front view may not be absolutely clear as it is drawn . What you are looking at, in the first floor, only extends to the left as far as the line where this doorway begins . This is the extent of the first floor . MR . BOOTH : Existing? MR . SCHWARTZ : Existing - no, the existing first floor, as it -well we ' ve already torn it down, it was an addition to the building -we ' ve torn it down but the plumbing shop itself ends right at this line here . Everything under here is carport - this door that you see, is twenty feet farther away from you than the front of the building . On the plan view, you can see that the stairway going down, is at the back: of the building and under- neath the room that is designated study and the left hand portion of the living room is parking . Okay, the little dotted line, it 127 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 128 says exterior line of existing building - okay? - that is the end of the plumbing shop below . Everything to the left of that is parking . We park underneath the study, right . And then there is another parking area which is beyond the building altogether . MR . BOOTH : So you are building the building to the west? MR . SCHWARTZ : That ' s right . MR . BOOTH : And that is where you are going to increase the lot coverage (unintelligible) MR . SCHWARTZ : Well we are not - I don ' t think we are increasing the lot coverage . If you go back to the site plan, the first drawing . . . MR . BOOTH : Well, I am confused because this says you are . MR . SCHWARTZ : I think, I ' m not sure about what the written description of the appeal says and what we are actually doing . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s what we have to get clear . MR . SCHWARTZ : Yes, I know . I ' m trying to do this briefly so we can get out of here . On the site plan, the dotted line says line of existing building to be demolished . Okay? That shows the foot print of the building as it is . We are demolishing that back to the solid line, not the cross-hatched part but that heavy solid line . We are demolishing that and then we are building the new construction as an overhang, okay? And so MR . BOOTH : The new construction is within what previously . . . MR . SCHWARTZ : Right, entirely within what previously existed, right . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So what you are doing is picking up the ground 128 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 129 floor and putting it on the second floor, making it slightly smaller? MR . SCHWARTZ : That ' s right . MR . BOOTH : And then parking underneath? MR . SCHWARTZ : Parking underneath it, yes, that ' s about what we are doing . And making it two bedroom . MR . BOOTH : I knew there was something I wasn ' t understanding on this application . MR . SCHWARTZ : If there is anything else I can say to make it clearer . . . MR . BOOTH : And so your application as you understand it, is that you are not increasing any of the existing deficiencies, is that correct? MR . SCHWARTZ : That ' s right . MR . BOOTH ' Setback, lot coverage, MR . SCHWARTZ : That ' s right . I think as' I understand it, the only thing that we need is a variance for increasing from one to two bedrooms . i MR . BOOTH : Well you don' t need that from us . Mr . Hoard can explain that . MR . SCHWARTZ : Well I ' m not sure what I need then, to be perfectly honest with you . MR . BOOTH : He needs a variance because the building is already nonconforming . And the use is changing . SECRETARY HOARD : Right . He is increasing the residential use of the property . 129 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 130 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Let me ask you - a sneaky question . It will be sneaky only after I tell you the answer . Tell me about the foundation for the support of that second story . Now, I ' ll tell you the answer - what happens or what is to stop you, aside from the erstwhile surveillance and vigilence of the Building Department from enclosing that first story at some future point? MR . SCHWARTZ : My integrity . But if I did, wouldn' t I have to apply for a variance? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m only asking a theoretical question . MR . SCHWARTZ : Let me explain it, the whole reason for this pro- cedure was not to extend the apartment to begin with . That was an after thought . The reason for it was to gain parking because as you - well, let ' s see, you can see from the - one of these drawings - the tax map, the property is divided and the front house is owned separately . We are limited to parking in that rear portion and the whole incentive for embarking on this was to gain parking spaces and it was only in the design process that I realized I could take advantage of the work there and increase that apartment and renovate the rest of the building . So I ' m not really interested in expanding the building . MR . BOOTH : You don ' t see any reason for expanding your plumbing shop? MR . SCHWARTZ : I have no need to expand the plumbing shop . If I need to expand the plumbing shop I ' ll move to a different location because that location is - has other limits other than just (unintelligible) of the building . 130 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 131 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay . Any further questions from members of the Board? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in support of granting this variance? Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of this variance? Moving right along with deliberations . 131 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 132 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1607 - 428 NORTH TITUS AVENUE The Board considered the appeal of Fred Schwartz for a variance to permit an addition of a dwelling unit at 428 North Titus Avenue . The decision of the Board was as follows : MR . BOOTH : I move that the Board grant the area variance requested in appeal number 1607 with the condition that the approval does not include the closing in of the ground floor . MS . FARRELL : I second the motion . FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) The proposal as outlined in the applicant ' s testimony does not involve the expansion of any existing deficiencies . 2 ) It would be very difficult for the applicant to move the existing building in such a way as to comply with setback requirements . 3 ) The proposed use is compatible with the character of the neighborhood . VOTE : 5 YES; 0 N0; 1 ABSENT GRANTED W/CONDITION 132 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 133 SECRETARY HOARD : The next case is APPEAL NO . 1608 - 102 WILLARD WAY Appeal of Thomas and Doris Everhart for a use vari- ance under Section 30 . 25, Column 2, and an area var- iance for deficient lot size under Section 30 . 25, Column 6, of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the conversion of the existing two-family dwelling at 102 Willard Way to a fraternity, sorority, or group home . The property is located in an R2a (Residen- tial, one- and two-family) Use District in which the proposed uses are not permitted . Therefore the ap- pellants must obtain a use variance before a conver- sion can be made . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Beginning with your name . . . MS . OESTERLE : My name is Patricia Oesterle, I represent the own- ers of 102 Willard Way, Mr . & Mrs . Everhart, who are not here because they have moved out of town . This property is a large, single family residence with a basement apartment . It is located in an R2a zone, it is located across the street from a RU zone and across the street from a Ria zone . The owners want a use and area variance so that they can rent or sell their home to a so- rority, fraternity or group home . This use is not permitted in an R2a zone but is permitted in an RU and Ria zone . I have a couple of maps that I would like to put up on the wall, if that is all right . To give the Board a better visual idea as to where this property is located, this is an aerial map which - it is probably hard to read from where you are - this is Ithaca Gun, this is Lake Street, this is the area that was vacant when the aerial map was taken but is now an apartment complex . This area was vacant when my clients purchased the property . This is the Everhart ' s house here on the corner, behind it is a fraternity 133 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 134 and across the street this large building with a parking area is a fraternity . The only area that is zoned R2a is along this side of Lake Street and along this side and this side of Willard Way . All of the rest of this area is either Ria or RU and, of course, Ithaca Gun is in a commercial area down here . So if you look at the map here, this is Lake Street, the Everhart home is on the corner, as you go up Willard Way, Omega Tau Sigma is behind the Everhart house and two of the other homes along Lake Street . Across the street from the Everhart home is the Kappa Sigma Fra- ternity, across the way, this large parcel here is now the apart- ment complex and the homes along here - several of them are owned by some commercial developers - this area all along here is also R3a which could go multiple families or another apartment com- plex . So the single family homes in this area are restricted primarily to this side of Lake Street, and these two sides of Willard Way, although there is a fraternity over here . According to the tax maps, Collegetown Motor Lodge owns this home here, and there is a fraternity back in here. When I sent out my notices to people within two hundred feet of the home, the tax assessment maps indicated that only six of them were owned by people that actually lived at that address . The rest of the seventeen people were either owned by people that were clearly commercial or out of town, or different parts of Ithaca owners . So I would assume that - in the two hundred foot radius of this property, that only six single family homes were lived in by the people that own that property . This is an unusual property, as you will see from the 134 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 135 pictures . Driving up University Avenue, this is the home . As you can see, it is a really beautiful, elegant home with the slate roof, the copper gutters - it is a beautiful old style home and, as you are driving up University Avenue, you can see across the street, here is that huge apartment complex that has been built since the Everharts bought the ,nhome . Behind their home, up on Willard Way, is the big fraternity and this is the front of that fraternity, looking down on to the Everhart property . This, of course, is the Ithaca Gun property and this is the fraternity that is across the street on University Avenue, from this proper- ty . So we ' ve got this gorgeous home on the corner, surrounded now by this huge apartment complex, two fraternities that were existing when my clients bought the home and single family homes that go behind it, across the street from it is an R3a zone, which eventually could go more heavily commercial, or more heav- ily residential . In this case I believe that strict adherence to the Zoning Ordinance would cause unnecessary hardship to these owners . There are unique conditions which apply to this property which make it impossible for the owners to obtain a reasonable rate of return on their investment with the permitted use . In order to calculate a reasonable rate of return I had the realtor look at the change in the average rate of return in Ithaca real estate from the time that the Everharts purchased their home in 1979 to the present . The average rate of return for these years was fifteen point seven percent ( 15 . 7%) and I have a chart for you so you don ' t have to write this down , Three point five eight 135 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 136 percent ( 3 . 58%) point seven o percent ( . 70%) and six point one eight percent (6 . 18%) respectively . Since figures were not available for 1984 on average home prices yet I used the average of the previous years to use an ' 84 figure . I think that ' s a conservative figure because ' 84 was a good year for Ithaca real estate . The Everharts invested eighty eight thousand two hundred dollars ($88, 200 . 00) in purchasing the property and their closing costs . They then spent forty one thousand four hundred dollars ($41, 400 . 00) improving the property . At the time they purchased it it was in pretty miserable condition . They put in a new fur- nace they fully insulated the house, they put in a new powder room, they put in plumbing, they completely repaired and repaint- ed the interior, which was plaster falling off the walls, and they put in the new garage to the rear of the property and repav- ed the driveway . So the total investment they had in their prop- erty was a hundred and twenty-nine thousand, six hundred . ($129, 600 . 00) If you apply the average rate of return figures to their investment, a reasonable rate of return over the five years that they ' ve owned the property, would be an asking price or a value of somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred and seventy- five thousand, seven hundred . (5175, 700 . 00) They ' ve been unable to sell their house . It was listed in May of 1984 at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($250, 000 . 00) - this was based on com- parable homes of its size and style, both in that area and in other- areas . Since then they have reduced the asking price down to a hundred and fifty-nine, nine ($159, 900 . 00) and they have not 136 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 137 received any offers on their home consistent with this permitted use . In fact, the only offer that they have received was for one fifty nine, nine (5159, 1900 . 00) and it involved condition on the person making the offer getting a variance for a six unit apart- ment building . This offer the Everharts rejected . At this point it seems clear that the Everharts will receive little or no rate of return, much less a reasonable rate of return on their invest- ment without a variance . The property has been on the market almost a year . The property is now reduced way below what would be considered to be a reasonable rate of return on the property and they have still had no offers consistent with the permitted use . This problem is unique to this property, as you can see from the photographs, the house is substantially different in character and style from the other single family homes in the neighborhood . It ' s an enormous house, it has approximately five thousand square feet . It has six bedrooms . It was built and owned by the Rothschild family and it has become somewhat econom- ically obsolete as a single family home because of its size and its location . It is located at the tip of a very busy intersec- tion, approximately four thousand cars a day pass that - by that street and intersection . If you stand in a doorway and look across the street, you look at that big, huge apartment complex, which was built after my clients purchased the property . And we have the large fraternity across the street and behind the house we have another fraternity . The dramatic change in the character of the neighborhood since the Everharts purchase has created un- 137 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 139 MR . BOOTH : Would you explain that? Because the zoning across the street is . . . MS . OESTERLE : It is already R3a MR . BOOTH : Could lead to what? MS . OESTERLE : The single family homes that are left next to that apartment complex could be converted to more heavy multiple dwellings without a variance - that ' s what happened in . . . MR . BOOTH : You are talking about other properties, not this one? MS . OESTERLE : Right . This one is clearly in a R2a zone . A change to a sorority or a fraternity would not significantly change the character of the neighborhood, particularly where this house has been one in the past . Similar uses are clearly permit- ted in the adjacent zones . There would be no additional health or traffic hazards created by a conversion, many of the homes in the neighborhood are already not single family homes . As I men- tioned before, in sending out my notices there were only six homes that look like owner-occupied, single family homes within the two hundred foot radius out of seventeen parties notified . I ' d like to ask the realtor to make a statement about how we cal- culated the rate of return and he also has a diagram about the parking . We' ve had a lot of interest in this property from a particular sorority that has eighteen women in it and that is one of the reasons that we' ve come before the Board is to try to get a variance so that we could lease or rent it to this particular sorority and he has had contact with the sorority so that he would have more information for you about that . I would ask the 139 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 140 Board that in reminding the audience about your rule that you are only going to let people within two hundred feet speak in opposi- tion . I believe there are a lot of neighbors who are either ren- ters or clearly outside the two hundred feet radius, that want to speak at this hearing . MR . BOOTH : You said you had a chart for us? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . That is attached to the realtor ' s statement . He will bring that up . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Are there any further- questions for this individual as opposed to . . . t `~° MR . BOOTH : You said thft the owners paid what for it in 1979? MS . OESTERLE : They paid eighty-eight, two ($88, 200 . 00) including their closing costs . I think the purchase price was eighty-seven something and then they had some closing costs involved too . MR . BOOTH : Early 1979, late 1979? MS . OESTERLE : I think it was in the summer of 1979 . MR . BOOTH : They put it on the market in 1984 for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($250, 000 . 00) ? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . Now that was based on a comparable - there was some comparable properties in that area that had sold for higher than that, so they did not feel that that was an unreasonable figure . MS . FARRELL : Were those also zoned as single family houses? MS , OESTERLE : The one that was a particular comparable, I think did have one or two more income units in it, so I think the zon- ing was different, but they hadn' t considered that that would be 140 } BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE: 141 a problem in marketing their property and, of course, it was . So then they reduced the price down to a hundred and ninety-five ($195, 000 . 00) in June and then they further reduced the price to a hundred and fifty-nine, nine ($159, 900 . 00) sometime in August of ' 84 - so it didn' t sit on the market at that high price very long . MR . BOOTH : How many houses have sold in that price range in Ithaca? MS . OESTERLE : Beats me . VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE : It would surprise you . MR . BOOTH : Well I ' m asking . MS . OESTERLE : Yes, I think: if you could ask the realtor that question maybe he could give you that information , MS . JOHNSON: So it has been on the market since August at one hundred and fifty-nine? MS . OESTERLE: Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Since August? And the assessed value is what? MS . OESTERLE : The assessed value is ninety thousand ($90, 000 . 00 ) something - I could look that up - I don ' t have that right with me but it is on our map, which is over there - it ' s ninety - I think ninety thousand, eight hundred or something like that . It ' s the highest assessed value of a single family home in that neighborhood . The other ones are considerably less . MR . BOOTH : And what do you see as the reason for- the difference between the assessed value and the asking price? Is it because normally the assessed values don' t go up until they are sold? 141 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE '. 142 MS . OESTERLE : Right . MR . BOOTH : When was this house last assessed? MS . OESTERLE : I don ' t know, I ' m sure that it was assessed after they got a permit for the garage and that ' s probably why it is assessed at more than what they paid for it . That would be my guess . MR . BOOTH : Oh, they built the garage subsequently? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And when was that? MS . OESTERLE : I don' t know, now Tom' s files might show it because they did get a permit to build the garage, because I noticed that when I was doing my research . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: It ' s within the last six years? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . I think they built the garage shortly after they bought the house - that is my guess, but I don' t know that . MR . BOOTH : The money they spent on the house was essentially interior work - furnace, walls, MS . OESTERLE : Furnace, walls, a new powder room, insulation - it didn ' t have any insulation in it - a typical old house . MS . JOHNSON: Driveway. MS . OESTERLE : They repaved the driveway . MR . BOOTH : And built a garage . MS . OESTERLE : And built a garage . MR . BOOTH : So the forty-one thousand dollars ($41, 000 . 00) investment includes the garage? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . 142 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 143 MR . BOOTH : Do you know how much the garage was? MS . OESTERLE : I think it was between eight and ten thousand dollars . That would be my guess . That ' s what the permit, I think stated, something like eight or . . . SECRETARY HOARD : Eight thousand . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Will you bring up your realtor? MS . FARRELL : Tom, when was that done? SECRETARY HOARD : The garage Between September 1979 - it was completed November 13, 1979 . MS . FARRELL : When did the assessment go up on that house? SECRETARY HOARD : I don ' t know, we don ' t have that . DISCUSSION TOOK PLACE HERE BETWEEN BOARD MEMBERS WHICH WASN' T PICKED UP BY THE RECORDER BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS SPEAKING AT ONCE , MR . LEWIS ' My name is Richard Lewis, I ' m affiliated with Connie Lewis Real Estate as a sales agent and I have a statement to read but before I do, I ' d like to point this map out in a little bit more detail . On this map I have all the names of owners accord- ing to the tax maps of May 1, 84 and assessed values, if anybody is interested in looking at it . On this map I have diagrammed as pointed out, outlining the area of the property . It ' s an aerial map obtained from the Assessment Office and I ' ve outlined the fraternities in the area, if anyone is interested in looking at that . Okay . I ' m here to support the request of Mr . 8 Mrs . Everhart for an area and use variance so that they may sell or rent their home at 102 Willard Way to a sorority, fraternity or 143 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 144 group home . It causes unnecessary hardship to maintain the pre- sent zoning for this property . Without the zoning change the Everharts will be unable to receive a reasonable rate of return on their property . Average rate of return of Ithaca real estate is available from the Board of Realtors . What I did was compared the average selling price for single family homes in the Ithaca area from 1979 to ' 83 . By doing that you can measure the percen- tage increase in value from year to year . No numbers are avail- able for ' 84 as of yet and, as Pat said, we' d gauge that to be a better than average year . So we averaged the prior years and used that value for ' 84 . Everharts, as Pat said, have about eighty eight thousand, two hundred ($88, 200 . 00) invested in the purchase price plus - no that includes closing costs - and have made about forty-one thousand four hundred ($41, 400 . 00) addition- al improvements . And she has mentioned new furnace, garage, new driveway, etc . Using average rate of return for Ithaca real pro- perties for the years that the Everharts have owned the property and multiplying it times the Everhart ' s investment, a reasonable yield on their investment would be about a hundred and seventy- five thousand and seven hundred dollars . ($175, 700 . 00) I be- lieve that these figures are conservative view of a reasonable rate of return for this property since it is located between cam- pus and a desireable location . A sheet of these calculations is attached to my written statement and at this time I ' ll pass that out . Okay . The property was listed in our office on May 30, 1984, as Pat said, for two hundred and fifty thousand 144 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 145 ($250, 000 . 00) - price was consequently reduced to the price that it is now at, one hundred fifty-nine thousand, nine hundred ($159, 900 . 00) . We received only one offer as to this date and that was contingent upon conversion to a six unit apartment house . The Everharts were not particularly fond of that idea and the offer was also contingent upon a variance . Building is sig- nificantly different from the other single family homes in the neighborhood as you can see by these pictures . It ' s a substan- tially built house, I ' ve been in few others like it -the walls are approximately a foot and one half thick., it has a double en- tryway and the front door - it ' s just really a substantial house . It would be perfect for a sorority, fraternity, that type of a home . It ' s got about five thousand square feet, it ' s located behind a fraternity, across the street from a fraternity and across the street from an apartment complex . That apartment com- plex did not exist when the Ever-harts bought the property and it ' s a major cause of problems in selling the property at this point in time . As far as traffic, there is approximately four thousand cars a day that go around that intersection . MR. BOOTH : How was that estimated? MR . LEWIS : I got those figures from corresponding intersections from the City Engineer . MR . BOOTH : What does that mean? MR . LEWIS : That means that they have traffic studies for intersections around that area, not for that particular intersection . I took those numbers, and I also stood on the 145 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 146 corner and did some counting myself . That ' s a very busy intersection . MR . BOOTH : Did you get four thousand? MR . LEWIS : I ' m sorry? MR . BOOTH : Did you get four thousand? MR . LEWIS : Didn ' t get quite that many . But it is a very busy intersection . It is on a major street up through - anybody who is familiar with it, knows it . MS . JOHNSON: Four thousand a day? MR . LEWIS : Yes . It is separated in character and style from the rest of the neighborhood - it ' s value is significantly higher than the rest of the neighborhood . You can see by the assessment value - just looking at assessment values themselves . MR . BOOTH : But could that relate to when the properties were sold? MR . LEWIS : Could possibly . The MR . BOOTH : Or last sold, I should say . MR . LEWIS : Last sold - I don' t have data on when the properties were last sold . I imagine, I really don ' t know on that . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Would you imagine that a corner lot would be significantly more expensive than a regular off the street lot? MR . LEWIS : It could be, I would also take into consideration the nature of that corner lot, the nature of the intersection and in fact that may depreciate the value . Granting of the variance as a reasonable use of the property, as Pat said, it has been used as a fraternity twice in the past . The change to a sorority 146 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 147 would not necessitate many structural changes on the inside . It is just about ideally suited . There would be some fixing up they would do in the basement, possibly as a rec room or a study room . I have attached - I did some measuring - the City Engineer re- quires or the City requires a hundred eighty square feet for par- king spot - I did some measuring - there is room for at least nine - possibly ten - parking spaces . MR. BOOTH : Where? MR . LEWIS : Where? Okay. MR . BOOTH : Is that what this sketch is? MR . LEWIS : Yes, that is correct . If you look along the existing driveway, there is a seventy-two foot space in front of the house . That would accommodate four spaces . There is a two car garage and behind the house there is space that could accommodate one, probably two parking spots , There is a g p parking spot at the apartment entrance which is this section right here - that ' s a parking spot and then there is a section right here that could also accommodate some more parking spots so there is plenty of parking there, so that there would be no stress on the street parking or the neighborhood . Let ' s see, the property is located approximately fifty feet from the only adjoining single family home, that is, because it is on a corner lot, it ' s directly be- hind a fraternity, it ' s about sixty feet from the fraternity, that other single family home that it is fifty feet from, is also approximately - I ' d say, sixty to seventy feet from the frater- nity , Granting the variance would not change the character of 147 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE: 148 this neighborhood nor be detrimental to the public welfare . I ' ve been working with the local sorority, which is in the process of gaining national affiliation . I ' ve been working with them for some time now - since, I guess, mid October . They are not - they are a local sorority right now, they have narrowed their national affiliation down to a selection of three sororities . They have not made a purchase offer on the property at this point in time pending variance change and pending selection of and affiliation with a national sorority . Granted that this affiliation - it will happen, it may be some time down the road - this sorority may or may not fit into this house, because of that . However, I might also add to that that I do have a private investor that is willing to make a purchase on that property and subsequently lease it to the sorority . So one way or another, if we can get the variance, that sorority is, in all likelihood going to move into that house . This sorority is not owned or operated by Cor- nell University which may be a consideration as far as taxes . They would not be tax exempt because of affiliation with Cornell, as far as my understanding . There is approximately eighteen mem- bers who would reside in the home with their house parents . The house parents, or house parent, would reside in the basement apartment, in all likelihood . I have, also, pictures and a map to show the character of this neighborhood and illustrate that the variance wouldn ' t result in a significant change in the neighborhood . And again I will point out that - this is the Everhart house looking south towards Ithaca Gun - it ' s a picture 148 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 149 of the house - this is looking north towards Willard Way - this is a side view looking up University towards Willard Way and the apartment complex on the left - the Everhart house . This is a major drawback for this location - that is one of the reasons why it is really not suitable for single family . This is above the Everhart house -you can just barely see the corner of their house, looking down University Avenue towards the apartment com- plex . This is at the intersection looking across the street - the Everhart house would be here on this picture - apartment com- plex, multi-family house . Looking down., again, this is looking up Willard Way - right -this is a parking lot for a fraternity that is on the corner of Willard Way and University, behind this house is another fraternity - a very large fraternity, so as far as traffic concerns for that street, I don' t see how it could increase at all . The traffic there must be already incredible . This is a picture of that fraternity behind this house - this is on Willard Way looking up the hill towards Cornell . That ' s a major street going across the bridge . This is looking down at Ithaca Gun - looking up Lake Street . This is at Ithaca Gun, looking down Lake Street . So I think you can see by these pic- tures the maps, etc . that this area has significant fraternity, sorority activity already and a fraternity activity however - large multiple unit housing complex - an apartment house directly across the street and I guess that is about all I have to say . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions of Mr . Lewis from members of the Board? �U 149 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 150 CHANGED TAPE HERE - MISSED SOME OF THE DISCUSSION MR . LEWIS : it was at, I would say, we' ve see them come on s the market and be gone the next day . It depends on a lot of things . Technically, I would say, three to six months . MR . BOOTH : Is it unusual for a house to be on the market for a year? In this price range? MR . LEWIS : Perhaps another person that is in the audience could answer that better than I . MR . BOOTH : Why is that? MR. LEWIS : I ' m sorry? MR . BOOTH : Why is that? MR . LEWIS ' I ' ve not been in this real estate market that long and they have numerous years experience . MR . SCHWAB : Can you tell me how the percentage increase in value is calculated . MR . LEWIS : Okay, what we did is - there is an average selling price per - for houses in the Ithaca area . If you take all the houses and average them together - that ' s what these figures are . Then what I did was, or we did, was take that and just figure the percentage increase each year, on that average price . MR . SCHWAB : I see, so the difference between seventy-nine and eighty is fifteen percent? MR. LEWIS : That is correct . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further questions? MR . BOOTH : Is that a standard way for - to take all the houses in a geographical area and lump them together? 150 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 151 MR . LEWIS : I don ' t know how standard it is, that ' s how we came up with the percentages on this one . It seemed like the most obvious way to do it . It would have been very difficult to zero in on that neighborhood precisely ( unintelligible) so I figured the most reasonable way to do that was to do a sum total of Ithaca . MR . BOOTH : And those average rates come from where? MR. LEWIS : I ' m sorry? MR . BOOTH : Where do you get that information? MR . LEWIS : These are figures published by the Ithaca Real Estate Board . MS . FARRELL: By who? MR . LEWIS : The Ithaca Real Estate Board . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank you Mr . Lewis . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of granting this variance? Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition of granting the variance? Please step forward . MR . BOOTH : Could you leave the pictures here? They might be helpful . MR . LEWIS : Sure . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And again, beginning with who you are . MR . DYNKIN: I ' m Eugene Dynkin, Professor of Mathematics at Cor- nell University and the next door neighbor of Everhart . ( 107 Lake , Street) It has been mentioned here that the distance between his house and my lot is twenty-five feet and the distance between my buildings is approximately fifty feet . I work mostly at home . 151 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 152 Being a mathematician I keep professional library there! my compu- ter and my home office faces the Everhart house . If his house would become another sorority or fraternity, this, of course, would have substantial negative impact on my work in addition to problems which would be created, of course, for my family and for the whole neighborhood . That ' s true, that we have another fra- ternity behind the house - behind my house and their house, but this fraternity is located on a slope, it is sheltered by trees and it absolutely does not interfere except twice a year when they have parties . Then, of course, a lot of noise . But this house is so close to my house that this ( unintelligible) is quite different . Everhart ' s property does not meet the requirements for a group home and actually the only reason stated in the Own- er ' s appeal is that they are not able to get the price they want to get . Actually Professor Everhart was a very good neighbor, he was in the Engineering school, he complained, actually, about noise from this fraternity close to our property and he actually called the police even, in the middle of the night, asking them to take some measure . That ' s also true that an apartment complex has been built across the street just in front of Everhart ' s house and at this stage, Professor Everhart was very bitter that this would diminish the price of the house, of course . And this is so, but at any rate this apartment complex is across the street and it doesn ' t violate any zoning . The question of price has been discussed here and so I don' t need to tell about this again but I believe that it is a more modest price, it probably 152 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 153 would be possible to sell it and, of course, that is true that a lot of improvement has been done in the first two years after Everhart ' s have settled . But most of this was a kind of commer- cial improvement . We also have done some improvement in our house - not on such a large scale - but they simply wanted to maintain the California style of life . They came from California here and they wanted to have as nice house here as they had be- fore - not necessarily this kind of improvement increases the market value of the house, of course. For example, the garage - a very big garage for two cars - it is very nice for a family house, but for a sorority probably it would be more natural to have four cars in the area provided by this garage . So I think it is not true that this area is not a residential area . It is very close to the Campus - this is correct - but a number of pro- fessors of Cornell University have single family houses there . Among them, some people are now neighbors, professors and they (unintelligible) not to be disturbed more than necessary with all of this development . And, of course this is a very dangerous (unintelligible) across the street that is another different zon- ing so you can park a little bit more and also convert it . So piece by piece you can convert (unintelligible) My wife, who also is here, and I are in strong opposition to this and a lot of our neighbors are of the same idea . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions? MR . BOOTH : You live down Lake Street? MR . DYNKIN: I live here - yes . And by the way, the Ithaca Gun 153 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 154 factory is substantially down here and it doesn' t interfere at all, we do not feel it at all . So . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to granting this variance? Come forward please . MS . TIERNEY : I am Teresa Tierney and I live at 201 Willard Way . We have lived there since 1950 . There has always been a frater- nity across the road from the Everhart ' s house and in back of the Everhart ' s house - it has always been a very very busy intersec- tion . It did not have the apartment complex but it has always been a very busy area . I happen to know very well the house, very good friends of ours who lived in the house, it was not in bad shape at all . I don' t think: a lot of things had to be done to it . But I think it was never put on the market at a reason- able price . Nobody in Ithaca is going to pay two hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($250, 000 . 00) for a house in that area . If they want to spend that kind of money, you know, they are in parts of Cayuga Heights or out of town . And we think it was never really put at a reasonable price . The other thing is that there are so many fraternities around and students and traffic that we don' t need another one . And it ' s really not fair to the neighbors . There was another point brought up that the house along Willard Way, 205 Willard Way, belonged to the Collegetown Motor Lodge . It belongs to the people who own the lodge, and it is a private home and most of the houses along Willard Way, where I live, are all private homes . 154 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 155 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions from members of the Board? Thank you . Anyone else who would like to speak in opposition? Come forward please . MR . WARHAFT : My name is Zellman Warh4ft, I ' m a Professor of Me- chanical Engineering at Cornell and I live three doors away down Lake Street, 111 Lake Street . I bought that house recently, last April . I would say one important point is that there is no real change in the neighborhood - it is certainly true that the apart- ments have been built across the road but the rest of it was there when Professor Everhart bought the house and he should well have been aware of the studenty nature of the area . He has moved around enough, in my opinion, to realize that . He is a professor and he was Dean of the Engineering School and if he is complain- ing now, he should have been well aware of the investment poten- tial and the selling potential when he bought the house . I think that the real estate agents have made much too much emphasis on the change in the neighborhood which I think is relatively slight - the risk - the other fraternities have been there and the na- ture of the neighborhood hasn' t changed very much . Also I think the fact that he cannot sell is not a reason for rezoning . I think that there are reasons for rezoning places but the whole basis for the argument is that he can' t sell -maybe he couldn ' t have sold it to a fraternity and he could put a gas station there - I mean - there are limits to what zoning should be about and I don ' t think it should be based on the selling ability of somebody who is clearly an able person who is not suffering . He may be 155 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 156 1 slightly inconvenienced but I don' t think he is undergoing mater- ial suffering . I also study at home as does Professor Dynkin, , and I ' m very aware of noise . I have a family living there and I have students who couldn' t come tonight, next door to me who are peaceful graduate students, this whole area is a very, very - although it is small - it is a real community of people who are quite peaceful and like the area that way . They like the conven- ience of Cornell and I think it is going to degrade the area if it is changed into a sorority . So that is all I want to say . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions? MR . BOOTH : How big is your house? MR . WARHAFT : I don ' t know what the square feet is but it is four bedroom house . MR . BOOTH : If I might, what did you pay for your house? MR . WARHAFT : I paid seventy-two thousand (S72, 000 . 00) for that house and also, I haven ' t brought that up as part of my case but it would suffer if the zoning was changed . MR . BOOTH : Do you know what your house was assessed at before you bought it? MR . WARHAFT : Around - I think, I ' m not sure, but somewhere between forty and fifty, I think . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? SECRETARY HOARD : Would you spell your name for the record? MR . WARHAFT : WARHAFT SECRETARY HOARD : And your first name? MR . WARHAFT : ZELLMAN 156 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 157 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank you . Anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to granting this variance? MR . BOWMAN: I am Stanley Bowman and I teach in the Art Depart- ment at Cornell University and I live 204 Willard Way and I am here because my wife and I are in opposition and I guess I would say that I was rather interested to hear the description of the character of the neighborhood as being multiple use and filled with fraternities and sororities because, as I walk out the door in the morning and I look up and down my street I see mostly sin- gle family houses and I look at those houses and I know pretty much who lives in them and that by and large the majority of them are owner-occupied and I guess my concern, like those of my neighbors, is that the character of the neighborhood is really going to be changed if one were to allow a sorority . Now, I guess I would also make an aside comment on that because, as I heard the description of this, it was only a possibility of a sorority or it could be a fraternity, or it could be a group home . I don ' t think it is really clear at this point what it could be and that bothers me even a bit more because I ' m not sure once a variance is granted, I would assume that it would remain as such and that it would be open to a number of uses by differ- ent groups and I really don' t like the notion of that . I think there are some other things that probably haven' t been mentioned - one thing that is of concern to my wife and I, is that there is a severe parking problem on the street on which we live and it is very heavily crowded and for the life of me I can' t see how the 157 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 158 addition of a group home or- a sorority could not somehow accentu- ate that . I mean, at times we have - the other night when my wife came home, there were cars parked on the lawn of the house next to us . The day after, we had a car parked in our driveway for several hours in front of our driveway and we were nice about it and didn' t call the police., but we have had that happen sever- al times . I just think the addition of a sorority there would only begin to - it would just simply add to the problems that that presents . I think there are problems with noise - you know - several times a month I ' ll walk outside and will hear music coming from different directions, I can' t but think that this would add to that problem. The whole issue of the reasonable rate of return and, I guess I was absolutely floored to hear that they should expect fifteen percent on their house, that I should expect fifteen percent on my house . We had our house - we refin- anced our house last year and it was - I calculated it should have been worth twice as much as it was assessed at last year, if those figures were really accurate. So - but in the end, I ' m not sure that maybe that ' s the most pertinent issue here at a Board which is really concerned with zoning appeals, because I think the person that was before me really brought up what may be the crux of the whole issue, which is the rezoning - I shouldn ' t say the rezoning but - maybe it is a piecemeal rezoning to allow the variance . Maybe what this Board would be doing is simply allow- ing a gradual incremental step by step rezoning of that whole i area and I guess I would really suggest that this is not the way 158 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 159 to go about it . It should be looked at as a whole and decided if that area maybe should be another zone or it should be protected as it is set up . I suppose the final thing I might say is if this variance were allowed, I think - my wife and I have talked about this and I ' m not sure that we would want to stay in the neighborhood because I think we are both convinced that unlike the statement that this is not significantly altering the char- acter of the neighborhood and is not detrimental, I think we both feel very strongly that it would be altering the character of the neighborhood . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions? MS . FARRELL : How long have you lived there? MR . BOWMAN: Ten years . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of this variance? Come forward please . MR . CONNELLY : My name is Bob Connelly, I live at 220 Willard Way . Down on the level part of Willard Way . I know it ' s late and I ' ll try to keep this short . I think I just would make a few extra points . Also, the character of the thing is something I would feel strongly about as well . We' ve got a seven year old child in there - there are really only a few families in the area - it would be nice to have another family rather than fewer fami- lies . I don' t see why it couldn' t go that way . Also the park- ing, I haven ' t seen the figures - or the diagram - but just walk- ing past the area, although there is room for several cars, as I 159 1 t i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 160 see it, if they are to create more parking spaces for more than three or four cars, they are going to have several of the cars blocked in . There is only room for two or three of the cars to actually get out, as I see it . Because of that driveway that goes around or they are going to have to park the cars on the front lawn . And, even the addition of one more parking space on the level part of Willard Way there would create an inconven- ience, it is sort of at a critical point . When it is snowing, most people like us have great difficulty parking in our garage because of the hill - we can' t get up the hill when the snow comes and so most people park on this part of Willard Way and there is only room for about ten or twelve parking spaces along that part of Willard Way otherwise you have to walk a mile to park your car . So even a small amount of increase in parking can be quite significant . And alsoli might ask the question, al- �` though the house has been on the market for several months, how long has the sign been out? I ' ve been by there, I haven' t even seen the sign . Is there a sign? And also about houses in the neighborhood, just down the street on Lake Street, on the same side, right by the Gun Company, I know the family that was in there, they just moved out - the Ustros - their house was on the market for, I ' m not sure, four or five months, something like that, at a very low price . I think it was - I ' m not sure exactly the price but it was something like sixty-five thousand - that was not a small house but not a large house of four bedrooms, I think - just to give you an idea of how long - they had to leave 160 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 161 just like the Everharts and wait several months before they could actually sell their house and their house was actually quite low . That ' s all I have to Say. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of this variance? Come forward . MS . TURCOTTE : My name is Joan Turcotte and I ' m a broker with Connie Lewis Real Estate . I also did a survey of value - increase in value in certain areas, Belle Sherman, Fall Creek and Cayuga Heights and I don ' t know where this fifteen percent came from but it is misleading . Certain areas of the City, say Fall Creek, has increased over a five year period and that ' s the period that the Everharts owned the house. Cayuga Heights, on the other hand has increased ten percent and I think that is rather significant . Based on the purchase price and the rate of increase even at one hundred and seventy-five, they are not making any money on that house . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Fine . Any questions? MS . TURCOTTE : Also, I would just like to say one other thing, I know it is very late . When the Everharts bought that house they fell in love with the area, they have no objection to fraterni- ties or students . They were very happy there . But a year after they bought the house there was a huge complex put on a very small lot across from their house and I think it must be some- thing like fifty or sixty units . 1 talked to one of the neigh- bors just about an hour ago , and he said a hundred units -that 161 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 162 might be more than there really is, but I think that is rather significant - that the character of the area has changed since the Everharts bought the property . That ' s all I have to say . MR . BOOTH : What is a typical length of time for a house in the hundred and fifty thousand to two hundred thousand dollar range to be on the market? MS . TURCOTTE : I can only tell you in Cayuga Heights, in the last year, houses have sold, I know personally three houses - one that I sold for two hundred and forty-five and it had been on the market for six months . I can say three houses that have been over a hundred and fifty, between hundred and fifty and two hundred . . . MR . BOOTH : And sold in how long? MS . TURCOTTE : One house sold in three months - the house that I had listed - actually it wasn' t three months, it was two months and three other houses I would say sold within six months, close to two hundred . MR . BOOTH : That is in Cayuga Heights? MS . TURCOTTE : Cayuga Heights, yes . This house - the price on this house was based on a comparable house that is on the knoll - right up the road from Willard Way . This house was appraised for two seventy five - it was purchased by the University at that price and it is comparable in size to the Everhart house . So we had several other realtors who appraised this house and at that time it did not seem out of line for the condition of this house and the location . All right? Thank you . 162 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 163 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of the variance? If not, we will go into deliberations . t i 163 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 164 DELIBERATIONS ON APPEAL NO . 1608 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The faster our deliberations the better we will all be . Shall we come back to the basic purpose - the use variance and the area variance both for deficient lot size? MS . JOHNSON: The house is being used now as a two family dwelling right? MS . FARRELL : Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: True . MS . FARRELL : And it is zoned for that? MS . FARRELL : Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: R2a, residential., one and two family . All right let ' s begin with the lot area . The deficiency created MS . JOHNSON: Eight thousand square feet . MR . SCHWAB : Thirty-two percent . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: A thirty-two percent deficiency . MS . FARRELL : Would be created, that is not there now with the one and two family? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right . MR . BOOTH : Tom, how do you arrive at twenty-five thousand? SECRETARY HOARD : You go to the zone where the use is permitted and take whatever the figure is - it says that on the . . . MR . BOOTH : I hadn' t looked at it . MS . JOHNSON: R3b, fraternity, sorority and . . . . SECRETARY HOARD : I don ' t make these things up Dick . MR . BOOTH : I know, Tom. I am very tired . MS . JOHNSON: R3b 164 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 165 MR . BOOTH : Item 4, MS . FARRELL : Twenty-five thousand, there you are . Right there . Which means that it is not considered to be sufficiently separated from its neighbors - we have this intensive use . MS . JOHNSON: Driving through there, I cannot figure out how you can get ten parking spaces on that land . At least ten that can move in and out . MR . BOOTH : Ask the Building Commissioner . MS . FARRELL : Do the parking spaces look okay Tom? SECRETARY HOARD : Four spaces in seventy-two feet That one is all right according to - I mean, if the sketch is correct . I don ' t think it is twenty feet back though . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well to move things along, I am going to make a motion . 165 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 166 DECISION ON APPEAL N0 , 1608 102 WILLARD WAY The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of Thomas and Doris Everhart for use and area variances to permit the conversion of the existing two-family dwelling at 102 Willard Way to a fraternity, sorority, or group home . The decision of the Board was as follows : CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I move that the Board deny the use and area variances requested in appeal number 1608 . MR . BOOTH : I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) The proposed variances would create substantial deficiencies in lot area . 2) There was evidence supplied by numerous people in the neighborhood that the proposed use would change the character of the neighborhood . ' 3) Financial hardship was not adequately demonstrated in light of the time the property was on the market and for the length of time it had been on the market . 4) While enough parking might have been created on the site, that, certainly with the use of the property having been changed, the increased density and the activity that would be attendant would exacerbate the problems in off-street parking throughout the area . VOTE : 4 YES; 1 NO; 1 ABSENT DENIED 166 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 167 SECRETARY HOARD : The last case is APPEAL NO . 1609 630 WEST BUFFALO STREET Appeal of King Post Truss Partners for an area variance for deficient lot size , deficient lot width, and deficient setbacks for both side- yards, to permit the conversion of the house at 630 West Buffalo Street from a two-unit dwell- ing containing one two-bedroom unit and one three-bedroom unit, to a two-unit dwelling con- taining two three-bedroom units . The property is located in a B-4 (Business) Use District in which the proposed use is permitted; however under Sections 30 . 49 and 30 . 57 the appellants must obtain an area variance for the listed deficiencies before a building permit or Certi- ficate of Occupancy can be issued for the con- version . MR . JENSEN: My name is Jack Jensen, representing KPT Partners, which is closely related to Equity Builders, General Contractors . By way of introduction, our partnership, which consists of six partners from Equity Builders bought these two buildings with the intention of putting them into Section 8 Housing and with the aid of the City ' s Facade Renovation Program fixing up the corner building 632 West Buffalo, which currently houses Pedal Away Bicycle Store and the upstairs of that building although it had some major deficiencies, was on the rolls as a four-bedroom apartment . We have turned that into a two-bedroom apartment with a small phone office for our construction company . The other building, 630, which is what we are under discussion - was sold to us as two, three-bedroom apartments . Apparently is on the City rolls as a three-bedroom and a two-bedroom . The problem being one mainly of logistics, the first floor apartment of that building, and I have a map here - blueprints here - currently has 167 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 167 SECRETARY HOARD : The last case is APPEAL NO . 1609 630 WEST BUFFALO STREET Appeal of King Post Truss Partners for an area variance for deficient lot size, deficient lot width, and deficient setbacks for both side- yards, to permit the conversion of the house at 630 West Buffalo Street from a two-unit dwell- ing containing one two-bedroom unit and one three-bedroom unit, to a two-unit dwelling con- taining two three-bedroom units . The property is located in a B-4 (Business) Use District in which the proposed use is permitted; however under Sections 30 . 49 and 30 . 57 the appellants must obtain an area variance for the listed deficiencies before a building permit or Certi- ficate of Occupancy can be issued for the con- version . MR . JENSEN' My name is Jack Jensen, representing KPT Partners, which is closely related to Equity Builders, General Contractors . By way of introduction, our partnership, which consists of six partners from Equity Builders bought these two buildings with the intention of putting them into Section 8 Housing and with the aid of the City ' s Facade Renovation Program fixing up the corner building 632 West Buffalo, which currently houses Pedal Away Bicycle Store and the upstairs of that building although it had some major deficiencies, was on the rolls as a four-bedroom apartment . We have turned that into a two-bedroom apartment with a small phone office for our construction company . The other building, 630., which is what we are under discussion - was sold to us as two, three-bedroom apartments . Apparently is on the City rolls as a three-bedroom and a two-bedroom. The problem being one mainly of logistics, the first floor apartment of that building, and I have a map here - blueprints here - currently has 167 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE ' 168 one bedroom here, a pretty awkward bath, and a larger bedroom here . At the time we bought the building there was a partition running between these two windows, across here - as you can see, there is two doors into the apartment - it was used as two bed- rooms - however neither of them were legally sized . Since taking occupancy this partition has been removed - the ceiling panels sag in the middle . Our proposal is to revamp the downstairs to match the upstairs, which would be the configuration of two-bed- rooms, a bath and a third bedroom. Although it is a little hard to gauge the density of those units, through the City records, they were literally packed with people when we took them. I think the conditions of the building and the proposed renova- tions, not only of 632 and with INHS ' s help with 630, we will greatly enhance both properties and the neighborhood as well . Apparently we have worked out the parking problems for both buil- dings and I don ' t believe that is an issue as lot size - we are not proposing any change in the footprint of the building - it is deficient as it stands in just about every aspect of its lot plan - side yards, rear yards . If we are not allowed to change this into a three-bedroom apartment, what we will have to do is leave it as a two-bedroom - we will have to do major repairs to make those two bedrooms liveable, up to code, and with the original mortgage, the mortgage that we have taken on as part of the fa- cade renovation and the proposed third mortgage through INHS, quite frankly we need to get the income from the three bedrooms as we had anticipated from the start . Since it is late, I ' ll 168 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 169 make that the end of my presentation . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions? MR . BOOTH : The house as it existed when you bought it had three bedrooms on each floor? MR . JENSEN: Three bedrooms on each floor . MS . FARRELL : But they were not of equal size, right? MR . BOOTH : The ones on the bottom floor were not all legal size? MR. JENSEN: Correct . MR . BOOTH : And you want to continue to have three bedrooms on each floor, although in a different configuration? MR. JENSEN: Right . MR . BOOTH : Why are they here, I ' m missing something . SECRETARY HOARD : Well we had them down as having one unit with two legal bedrooms and one unit with three legal bedrooms . MR. BOOTH : I see, whereas in fact one of them had been divided again so that there were three . So you are saying to us that the reason for the variance is that they are changing from two bedrooms to three bedrooms on the bottom floor? SECRETARY HOARD : I don ' t know which is upstairs and which is downstairs . MR . BOOTH : Whichever . That ' s the reason they need the variance? SECRETARY HOARD : Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Further questions? MS . FARRELL . I ' ll make a motion . MR . BOOTH : I have one question. When you say you are going to decrease the total number of bedrooms available, is that true? 169 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE: 170 MR . JENSEN: Well, we are doing that by - if you take the two buildings together, which is sort of impossible not to, we have changed the upstairs of 632, the corner building . . . MR . BOOTH : But we are not dealing with 632 . . MR . JENSEN: The question at hand is 630 West Buffalo, right . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Further questions? Stewart? MR . SCHWAB : No . 4 1 1 E �I 170 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 171 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1609 630 WEST BUFFALO STREET The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of King Post Truss Partners for an area variance to permit the conversion of the house at 630 West Buffalo Street from a two-unit dwelling containing one two-bedroom unit and one three-bedroom unit, to a two-unit dwelling containing two three-bedroom units . The decision of the Board was as follows : MS . FARRELL : I move that the Board grant the area variance requested in appeal number 1609 . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) The proposed use is consistent with the Zoning Ordinance . 2) The proposed changes do not exacerbate the present lot area, lot width, and side yard deficiencies . 3 ) The proposed changes will bring this previously deteriorated property into compliance with the building code . 4) Provision for adequate parking has been made . VOTE : 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT GRANTED CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I would ask that the record note that there was no one in favor nor opposition, aside from the appellant . Just for the record . There was no one else there, the Press has even gone home . 171 - 172 - I , BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of Appeals numbered 1-1-85, 1600, 1604, 1605, 1606, 1607, 1608 and 1609 on March 18, 1985 in the Hall of Justice, City Court, 120 E. Clinton Street, Ithaca, New York, that I have transcribed same, and the foregoing is a true copy of the transcript of the minutes of the meeting and the action taken of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York on the above date, and the whole thereof to the best of my ability. Barbara C. Ruane Recording Secretary Sworn to before me this 4— day of 1985 Notary Public JEAN J. HAN;KINSON NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF NEW YORK No. 65-1660800 QUALIFIED IN TOPo7?KINS COUNTY MY CC.`I:ir;1=�lOii EXPIRES MARCH 30,192J BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS HALL OF JUSTICE CITY COURT MEETING OF MARCH 18, 1985 TABLE OF CONTENTS APPEAL NO. 1-1-85 CLINTON WEST LIMITED 5 609 WEST CLINTON ST. APPEAL NO. 1-1-85 DELIBERATIONS 34 APPEAL NO. 1-1-85 DECISION 42 APPEAL NO. 1600 HAROLD ,SCHULTZ 44 120 HIGHLAND PLACE APPEAL NO. 1600 DELIBERATIONS 65 APPEAL NO. 1600 DECISION 1600A 67 1600B 74 16000 76 APPEAL NO. 1604 M.D. s G.D.L. MORRIS 77 1311 EAST STATE STREET APPEAL NO. 1604 DELIBERATIONS 85 APPEAL NO. 1604 DECISION 88 APPEAL NO. 1605 TOMPKINS CO. HOUSING TASK FORCE 90 717-7171 WEST COURT STREET APPEAL NO. 1605 DELIBERATIONS 109 APPEAL NO. 1605 DECISION TO DEFER 116 APPEAL NO. 1606 TAYNTON FREIGHT SYSTEM, INC. 117 409-15, THIRD STREET APPEAL NO. 1606 DELIBERATIONS 123 APPEAL NO. 1606 DECISION 124 APPEAL NO. 1607 FRED E. SCHWARTZ 125 428 NORTH TITUS AVENUE APPEAL NO. 1607 DECISION 132 TABLE OF CONTENTS BZA MEETING OF MARCH 18, 1985 page 2 APPEAL NO. 1608 THOMAS AND DORIS EVERHART 133 102 WILLARD WAY APPEAL NO. 1608 DELIBERATIONS 165 APPEAL NO. 1608 DECISION 166 APPEAL NO. 1609 KING POST TRUSS PARTNERS 167 630 WEST BUFFALO STREET APPEAL NO. 1609 DECISION 171 CERTIFICATION OF THE RECORDING SECRETARY 172 BZA MINUTE'S /18/85 PAGE : 1 BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS CITY COURT CITY OF ITHACA, NEW YORK MARCH 18, 1985 SECRETARY HOARD'. I ' d like to call to order the March 18, 1985 meeting of the City of Ithaca Board of Zoning Appeals . The Board operates under the provisions of the Ithaca City Charter, the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, the Ithaca Sign Ordinance and the Board' s. own Rules and Regulations . Members of the Board who are present tonight are : MR. . RICHARD BOOTH MR , STEWART SCHWAB MS . HELEN JOHNSON MR . MICHAEL TOMLAN MS . TRACY FARRELL THOMAS D . HOARD, SECRETARY TO THE BOARD , ZONING OFFICER 9 BUILDING COMMISSIONER BARBARA RUANE . RECORDING SECRETARY ABSENT : CHARLES WEAVER The first order of business that we have is to elect an acting chairman . The Board has only met once this year and elected an acting chairman because there was not a full Board present and until we have a full Board present we are electing an acting chairman for each meeting . So I will entertain nominations for acting chairman for tonight . MR . BOOTH. I would move that Michael Tomlan serve as acting chairman . SECRETARY HOARD : Do I hear a second? MS . JOHNSON: I will second that . SECRETARY HOARD : Any other nominations? (none.) Close the 1 BZ/_A MINUTES :3/18/85 PAGE : 2 nominations . All in favor? 5 AYES ; 0 NAY CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: We probably should begin with the proposed amendment to the BZA Rules and Regulations, copy of which you have in front of you , I don' t see any reason necessarily to read this into the record if you all have copies before you . Any comments'? MR . BOOTH, I take it the City Counsel, Tom, is now happy with t is? SECRETARY HOARD : Yes . We went over it Friday . MR , BOOTH: Mr , Chairman I would move then that we amend our Rules and Regulations to include the provision dealing with the deadline for filing of an appeals with the Board of Zoning Appeal=_. , as stated in the memorandum of March 18, 1985 from Tom Hoard , CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Do we have a second? MR . SCHWAB .' I ' ll second that . Tom, can you tell me how this differs from the earlier- one? The one we got on February 26th? SECRETARY HOARD: The earlier one., the Attorney did riot like the fact that that list did riot seem to have a whichever comes first type of thine . In other words, it looked like someone could gust wait and go down the list and pick out the one they wanted to have and we also dropped out the interested party statement be- cause he felt that the reference to interested party was too vague in this content, and that he felt that that would mean that someone might interpret that it meant that they were entitled to 2 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 3 some special kind of notice in every case - which is not the case . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further discussion? SECRETARY HOARD : I guess the other thing to decide is what paragraph it should be . C:HAIR.MAN TOMLAN: We had a suggested paragraph in the last . . . SECRETARY HOARD : If it is paragraph "N" then we don' t have to retype the whole thing . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right . We pretty well agree . . . SECRETARY HOARD : Otherwise there doesn ' t seem to be any logic for putting it in any particular place . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is that agreeable to everybody`' All right, let ' s have a vote on the matter , since we have a motion and a second . All those in favor? 5 AYES; 0 NAY CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay, so we are set . We can proceed? Okay, having more or less gotten through our homework we ' ll proceed . The Board will hear each case in the order listed in the Agendum . First we' ll hear from the appellant., and ask that he or she pre- sent the arguments for the case as succinctly as possible, and then be available to answer questions from the Board . We will then hear from those interested parties who are in support of the application, followed by those who are opposed to the application I should note here that the Board considers "interested parties" to be persons who own property within 200 feet of the property in question., or who live or work: within 200 feet of the property . 3 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 4 Thus the Board will not hear testimony from persons who do not meet the definition of an inter-ested party . While we do not ad- here to strict rules of evidence we do consider this a quasi-ju- dicial proceeding and we base our decisions on the record . The record consists of the application materials filed with the Buil- ding Department, correspondence relating to the cases as received by the Building Department ., the Planning and Development Board ' s findings and recommendations ( if any), and the record of tonight ' s hearing . Since a record is being made of this hearing, it is essential that anyone who wants to be heard come forward and speak: directly into the microphones so that the comments can be picked up by the tape recorder and heard by everyone in the room. Extraneous comments from the audience will not be re- corded,, and therefore will not be considered by the Board in its deliberations on the case . We ask: that everyone limit their com- ments to the zoning issues of the case, and not comment on aspects that are beyond the jurisdiction of this Board . After everyone has; been heard on a giver, case, the hearing on that case will be closed, and the Board will deliberate and reach a deci- sion . Once the hearing is closed, no further testimony will be taken, and the audience is requested to refrain from commenting during the deliberations _ It takes four votes to approve a mo- tion to grant or deny a variance or special permit . In rare cases where there is a tie vote., the variance or, special permit is automatically denied . I would note at this time that those of You who are coming forward as appellants, have the right, because 4 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 5 there. are only five of us here, rather than six , to request a postponement of your case until you have six present, if you care to CIO so . Is there anyone out there who would like to postpone at this time? VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE : Can I ask, a question on that? Goes anyone know when the sixth member would be available? SECRETARY HOARD : Our understanding is next month., at the April 1st meeting but . . . VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE : One other question, I guess, is it possible to get a vote from the sixth member even though he is riot present,, if he reads the material? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That hasn' t been our policy in the past . SECRETARY HOARD. That would only be the case if the Board held over deliberation . Then the sixth member could read the minutes and then participate, but he would not be able to vote after there had already been a vote taken . ' CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: We like to have everyone present, obviously, to be able to reach a consensus_.., one way or the other . Any other i further questions? Then we can proceed to the first case . SECRETARY HOARD: The first appeal is No . 1-1-85 - 609 W , CLINTON STREET ( CLINTON WEST SHOPPING PLAZA) Appeal of Clinton West Limited for a sign vari- ance under Section 34 . 6, Paragraph A (maximum size of signs permitted in a B-2a use dis- trict ) , and Section 34 . 6, Paragraph D (maximum number of signs permitted for a shopping center in a B-2a use district), to permit the addition of two additional freestanding signs of a di- rectional/ informational nature to the Clinton West Shopping Plaza at 607 West Clinton Street . The new signs would bring the total for the 5 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 6 property to three freestanding signs (some ex- isting signage would be removed) : and the new signs would be greater than fifty ( SCS) square feet in area . The property is located in a B-2a (business- ) use district in which only one freestanding sign of no more than fifty (50) square feet is permitted . This appeal was held over from the February 4, 1.985 meeting so that the appellant would have the opportunity to provide additional materials requested by the Board . MR . GROFF : Ladies and Gentlemen, my name is John Groff, I ' m an attorney from Horseheads . New York:, we represent the appellant in this case and if it is acceptable to you I will sit down here so that I may talk: into the microphone . As you are aware, our re- quest is for a variance from the City of Ithaca Sign Ordinance and our request is to erect two directional and registrational signs for the Plaza . Essentially those signs would consist of signs identifying each of the tenants by their name and then a sign which would consist of a schematic of the entire Plaza, set- ting forth the various rental units and then identify where the tenants are by rental unit identification number . Currently the sign that is on the premises is - identifies the name of the Pla- za itself - Clinton West Ltd . Plaza . The tenants themselves are riot identified by name or location on any directory signs that are available to the motoring public or public that are out on the streets and by-ways . There are numerous tenants in this case who happen to have units which are interior to the structure it- self . We have previously provided this Board with photographs of pertinent viewings of the property as well as a photocopy of the 6 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 7 layout of the Plaza itself . For your information , it consists - there are two structures on the property, separate and distinct, one of which, has various rental units which open directly to the outside - the exterior . That structure is the one that is lo- cated most westerly on the site, the other structure has a multi- tude of entrances and exits and, as you can see from looking at the diagram,, has a number of interior units to it . Essentially when reviewing the entire Plaza itself, or Shopping Center, there are approximately ten separate entrances to the various units and the various walkways., interior to the structure itself . In addi- tion there are entrances and exits that go to the second floor of one of the larger buildings, the main building itself and there are rental units in that area as well . The - our intent is to - as I stated - erect signs to identify the tenants and their loca- tion for their, benefit and for the benefit of the public that patronize this facility . The appellant has owned and managed the Plaza for approximately one year and during that course of time has become familiar with some problems that exist as far as the ability of patrons to locate the various rental properties . The tenants can., and have in many cases, erected signs identifying where their units are - the problem is that with the multi- tude of entrances and exits to the facility it is difficult with- in the constraints of the Sign Ordinance to be able to notify the patrons . If., for instance, a patron comes in on one entrance and happens to find out that there is a - the tenant is riot in that particular structure or not in the area in which that patron is, 7 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 8 then they have to leave the structure and they become frustrated and elect not to patronize that facility or they may have to move their vehicles they may have - to the extent of actually travel- ing on the public thoroughfares . And it is our intent to allevi- ate that confusion on their part . Our request is for that of what is generally known as an area variance . There are typically two types of variances in New York. State . For those of you who are new to the Hoard, and I understand there are several who are, there are two basic: distinctions . area variances and use vari- ances., a use variance is that which would allow the property to be put to a use other than that which the Zoning Ordinance cur- rently allows . In this case we are requesting an area variance - an area variance is that which deals with geometric; or dimension- al constraints placed upon the property itself . Typically they would be square footage for structures, setbacks from various property limes and things of that nature . In this case you have a Sign Ordinance which permits signage, however it places a con- straint on the number of square feet that can be allowed in arty particular zone and so our request is for the deviation from that constraint itself . There are two different standards that are applicable to variances in New York: State . In general unneces- sary hardship is one standard which has to be met by any appel- lant in order to acquire or to be granted the appeal . That stan- dard, which I don' t believe is applicable under these circum- stances, would indicate tht the appellant must establish that the land cannot be put to a use which yields a reasonable return in 8 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 9 accordance with the existing Ordinance . The next standard is that the plight of the owner is due to some unique circumstances which are not Gammon to the neighborhood in general and then the third prong of the unnecessary hardship test is that the vari- ance, if granted, would not alter- the essential character of the neighborhood . The other standard, which is the standard that I believe is applicable under the circumstances, is that which is ' generally known as practical difficulties . Arid practical diffi- culties is a standard which is much more liberal than the unne- cessary hardship standard . It is one that has not been defined with as much specificity as unnecessary hardship, however, the case law indicates that there are some considerations that should be taker, into mind when any Board is reviewing an application which would adhere to this standard . Basically the suggested considerations is, how substantial the request is . In this case we ar-e requesting simply to be allowed to erect some additional signage on the property . Essentially the signage would be ap- proximately two hundred and twenty ( 2201) square feet in addition ' to what is presently available on the premises itself . The pho- tographs that have been provided to this Board previously have a general depiction of what the signage would appear- to be, if per- mitted, and I will address that in a few moments . Another ele- ment that has to be considered under the practical difficulties test is whether or not the variance, if granted, would have any effect on population density, which is not applicable here . The - another consideration is whether or not there would be a sub- 9 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 10 stantial change in the neighborhood if the application is granted or the appeal is granted . In this case, I believe it is rela- tively safe to say that there would not be any substantial change in the neighborhood as far as motoring public: is concerned or any other uses . We are simply dealing with the erection of direc- tional and directory signs . Another consideration is whether the interest of justice would be served by granting the variance . In this case. what we ' ve mentioned in previous_: testimony before this Board., is that there are some traffic considerations which we believe could be alleviated and modified to the benefit of the motoring public: and to the benefit of those people who patronize this facility . In addition to that, we feel that this facility provides much needed services to the residents in that community and those public: services which consist of laundry facilities, clothing facilities, food preparation and sales., beauty salons and things of that nature as well as some typical business units . Previously at an earlier hearing., Lieutenant Ingersoll appeared, he is an officer with the Cornell University Police Force and he gave testimony regarding the traffic impacts, as far as our re- quest is concerned and the beneficial aspects of our, request . He is present tonight if there is anyone who wishes further explana- tion in that regard, he is available and would be most happy to address that issue . As far as our request is concerned, the signs are substantially larger than those that are on the pre- mises , If you would turn to the photographs that were previously delivered to this Bc}arcl, you will see a photograph which is Iden- 10 BZA MINUTES 3/16/85 PAGE : 11 tified as Al , If you wish to relate that to the schematic that was delivered to you at the same time with the photographs - by examining the schematic in red you will see a line on the left side of the page with an arrow and then a number one and then a comma and then 1A, That is to indicate that that is where the photograph was taken from and the arrow indicates the direction in which the camera was facing at the time . As you can see from the photograph number, lA there is a large object behind a truck - that object depicts what the sign would be if the dimensions re- quested ar-e granted . It extends somewhat above the truck, you can see ars individual standing there as well . That photograph is looking in a northward direction toward Clinton Street . The next that is depicted, which is 1A, is a photograph from this same general area, however it is looking, again, northerly, but it is looking toward the existing Clinton West sign and then underneath it you can see what appears to be a frame structure - that is the dimension of another sign placed there for- your benefit., so that you could have an accurate pictor-al representation of what this request is all about . In the first instance., the first photo- graph showed a long - a tall and narrow sign, basically a sign that is six feet wide but sixteen feet in height . lA represents a different sign . This sign would be by dimension approximate nine and one-half feet in width and eleven feet nine inches in height . The next series in the photographs is number, 2 -number 2 represents the area in which this sign would be placed if this appeal is granted and again you can see - that is the long narrow 11 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 12 sign that is depicted in this photograph . The photograph is taken from a westerly direction., looking east in a median between Route 13 arid Meadow Street, looking toward the Plaza itself . The next photograph . . MS . FARRELL : I have a question . You are showing this tall standing sign and you are within the Clinton West behind it . . . MR . GROFF : Yes, that is correct , MS . FARRELL : And then in this one - is this just an alternate design for this tall, skinny one? MR . GRUFF : There are two different designs under consideration . Our request is of multiple relief . Our preference is for the sign that is depicted in photograph number 2 which is a taller and narrower sign and we are advised by some sign engineers that this sign would be more visible to the motoring public on Route 13 . As an alternative, what we are offering to the Board for their consideration, or for your consideration, is a sign which is a little bit more squat but with greater, width and the inten- tion is that if the tall, narrow sign is granted, then it would be erected essentially in the vicinity of where it is shown on photograph number 2 . If, in the alternative, it is felt that the other sign would be less obtrusive, then the intention would be to utilize the existing framework for the Clinton West sign as you noted earlier, and simply raise the Clinton West sign up in the air somewhat and place the other structure underneath it so that you would have one basic unit., with two different signs on top of it . We are advised that there is no concern as to the 12 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 13 structural integrity of the framework by the same engineering firm, or sign firm, rather . So there are those two alternatives we are presenting to this Board for its consideration . The next series of photographs, photograph number 3 and photograph 3A are from a north direction., looking basically southeasterly from the north side of West Clinton Street near the intersection of West Clinton and Route 13 . Essentially we are looking toward the Pla- za itself, as I indicated, in the southeasterly direction . Pho- tograph number- 3 depicts, again, the long, narrow sign which is the appellant ' s preference, located within the Plaza itself, and then► photograph number 3A represents the short, squat sign placed adjacent to the existing Clinton West sign . Photograph number 4 is taken from the north side of West Clinton Street, approximate- ly half way through the Plaza property itself, northerly of it., looking in basically a southwesterly direction toward the exist- ing Clinton West sign . MS . FARRELL : I have another, question . Do you plan to - do you want to put the same signs on both sides' For instance, when you are looking at the back: side, does it look the same as the front side? (unintelligible) MR . GROFF : No it wouldn' t . No, the intent is to erect on the side facing Route 13 essentially a directory listing the names of the tenants that occupy the Plaza . On the easterly side of that structure., it is our intent to erect a schematic similar to what you have before you, of the Plaza itself with the names of the tenants in much smaller lettering, indicating where the - the } 13 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 14 tenants name and then where the tenant ' s location would be in the schematic diagram of the Plaza itself . MS . FARRELL : So that would go on the back side of either the tall, thin or the short., fat sign? MR . GROFF : Yes . Thank you . Photograph number, 4, again, depicts the taller, thinner sign . The next series of photographs, number 5 and number 5A are taken again., from the north side of West Clinton Street, looking in a southeasterly direction, toward an existing sign for Convenient Food Marts and, as you can see, there is a framework there, as well, that is of the short., broad- er sign that we are requesting and then photograph number 5 de- picts the taller, narrower- sign in that same location . MS . FARRELL : And would the Convenient Food Mart sign be torn down? MR . GROFF : Yes . That sign is currently there under a variance granted by a prior Board and it is our understanding that that is not a sign owned by the appellant., however, in discussions with the owner of the sign, he has indicated a willingness to remove it if our- application is granted . And essentially, the intent is to erect a sign at the same location where his sign currently is . MS . FARRELL ., So if these are the same signs as would be out front, or out near Route 13 and both signs would have all the tenants on both of the buildings? MR . GROFF : Yes . Basically the intent is , the structures them- selves have street addresses that r-un from 607 to approximately 637 or 635 West Clinton Street . However, for our purposes inter- 14 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 15 for to the Plaza they are generally identified as 6019 and 625 . 609 is the smaller building, the building that is -the one on your schematic-. has Clinton West Plaza written on top of it and there are basically eight tenants in that structure itself . So the intent is to set forth the address and then underneath - and identify the buildings by street address and then underneath that the listing of the tenants who occupy those structures at this time . Photograph 6A is taken from a direction easterly of the Plaza looking basically in a westerly direction along West Clin- ton Street, toward the Plaza and as you can see., the Convenient Mart sign is there and directly behind that is the short, squat sign that is under consideration . That ' s under photograph 6A . And on photogr-aph 6, taken from the same position, the same basic Position you see the tall, narrower sign placed at that same lo- cation indicating what it would look like from - for the motoring public . Photographs 7 and 7A are taken from the sidewalk, essen- tially, on the south side of West Clinton Street looking directly westerly toward the Plaza itself and again you see the - on 7 you see the tall sign and in 7A a little less visible is the shorter, broader sign . Those are the signs and the general dimensions and what they would appear to the public and to the neighborhood and as you can see, there would be some reduction in signage based upon those existing structures . MR . BOOTH : Three new signs? MR . GRO'FF , No . There would be - depending upon what this Board determines to be its pleasure - there may be two signs or- there 15 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 16 may be three signs or there may be one sign . The one sign would be the existing Clinton West sign that you see in the photographs already - that were presented . If you granted the appellant ' s request in the manner in which they would prefer to have it gran- ted, that sign would remain on the premises, there would be the tall, narrow sign erected a little bit westerly of it and then there would be a tali narrow sign erected on the east end of the property . MR . BOOTH, So the three includes the existing sign? MR . GROFF ' That is correct . If, however, you go with the other alternative that has been presented to you, essentially the exis- ting sign would remain on premises - only it would be erected higher on the existing framework . For all intents and purposes it might appear to be simply one sign, as opposed to two signs if that were the alternative that was considered . Let ' s see, the dimensions of the sign have been suggested to us by Ithaca Plas- tics., a sign contractor in this community, so as to make the signs themselves legible to the public driving along Route 13 and north and southerly directions . MS . JOHNSON' Could you give the dimensions of the two signs? MR . GROFF : Sure . I will give you the dimensions of the signs which would be our preference, if you would consider it . That would be six feet (6 ' ) in width by sixteen feet, eight inches [ 16 ' , t8") in height . And then the other sign would be nine feet, six inches I;rt ' , 6") in width and eleven feet, nine inches( ll ' , cJ") i in height . 16 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 17 MR . BOOTH' You said before that what you ar-e proposing would have two hundred and twenty ( 220) square feet in addition to the existing sign . MR . GROFF _ Approximately, yes, and that is arrived at by utiliz- ing the dimensions of the shorter but wider sign and reducing the - or taking into consider-ation the signage reduction by elimina- ting the Convenient sign. If my arithmetic is correct. I am not an accountant so I would beg - I may be entirely wrong in that regard . Essentially, my calculations are that the shorter and wider, sign has 'more square footage, it is approximately one hun- dred arid ten ( 110) square feet . The other sign., the taller and narrower sign is approximately one hundred ( 100) square feet and I guess - thank you for asking the question because it actually would be somewhat less than two hundred and twenty because if the two signs are granted - that would be two hundred and twenty ( 220) square feet and if you eliminate the Convenient sign, which has approximately fifty (50) square feet . that would mean one hundred and seventy ( 170) square feet in addition to the existing signage for the Plaza itself . Thank: you for your point, I appre- ciate that . MS . FARRELL : The existing sign is fifty (50) square feet? MR . GROFF : Yes . which is in conformity, as I understand it, with the Sign Ordinance , MS , JOHNSON. Wheat is the existing Clinton West sign? MR . GROFF : I will show it to you on - you can see it most clearly probably on photograph 3 . It shows the sign as well as 17 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 18 photograph 2 . MS . .JOHNSON: It is about the same size as the Convenient Store? MR . GROFF : Yes, approximately . MS . JOHNSON; It is fifty (50) square feet? MR , GROFF : Yes . One thing that I would note to this Board., it is my ur►der-standing that these alternatives have been presented to the Building Commissioner ' s office and it is also my under- standing that the technical staff and the enforcement staff have indicated that they feel that the granting of our request would not be in substantial violation of any of their enforcement pro- cedures and feel that it may very well be of benefit to the com- munity at large and in particular in that area . If you wish for me to address the - I don' t know whether it is this Board ' s - whether you concur in my assessment that the standard of review is that of practical difficulties as opposed to unnecessary hard- ship - however , I am prepared to address the other standard if you wish for me to take up your time . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I don' t believe it ' s necessary . MR . GROFF . Okay . I ' ll hold myself available to answer any ques- tions which you may have in regard to our request . Perhaps it would be worthwhile for me to take a few minutes to go over our site plan of the project itself, to acquaint you with some of the real severity of our problem. As I indicated, there are two structures involved . The most westerly structure is the smaller one and then all of those rental units enter from the outside -there are no interior hallways or anything like that for the 18 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 19 patrons . As far- as the other structure is concerned, located easterly on West Clinton Street, there are a number of entrances and exits , If you look: toward the middle of the structure it- self, you will see what it looks like a - a long., narrow corridor and that is exactly what it is . There is an entrance on the east side of the building and an exit - well,, an entrance and exit on the east side of the building and an entrance and exit on the west side of the building . And from that the patrons would walk through there and there are many rental units which enter only from that hallway itself . In addition to that there is an en- trance on the =south side of the building which is off of Center Street to some of the rental units - Center Street is at the bot- tom of the schematic diagram you see there - and then there are some other rental units which enter from the west side of that main structure and in addition to that, there are some entrances at the north side of the structure which are - lead to a stairway that goes up to the second level of the main building . As you can see, in order for us to make readily available and known to patrons of this Playa, it would require a tremendous- amount of signs - located at all of these various entrances to indicate where the various different tenants are located . Our hope is to alleviate the need for a multitude of signs by erecting the two that are under consider-ation now and with the schematic, and make it readily available to the patrons . One thing that you have here that I would request that you take into consideration is You have a shopping that y center which is somewhat similar and 19 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 20 akin to a hybred between what is known as a strip shopping center and a mall . Because of the interior entrance aspect for a number of the rental units it is somewhat akin to the malls., similar to Triphammer where you enter the entrances and then - hopefully in front of the entrances there is a sign indicating where the vari- ous stores are and you can go to them. That is a perfect example of why directional signs are very important to a tenant and they can mean a great deal to the tenants as far as their economic livelihood is concerned . The other, structure is one that is somewhat akin to strip malls in the sense that it has exterior entr-ances and on that basis it is readily apparent to someone who happens to be driving through the Plaza where the particular ten- ant is located. Part of the problem that we have is that for someone to enter the Plaza from Clinton West, there are - I ' m _sorry - from West Clinton Street and to go to the wrong struc- ture, and finding out that they are at the wrong one - if they are going to utilize their vehicle -and people being somewhat attached to utilizing automobiles., tend to hop back into their car- and drive to wherever the other location is . The end result is that many times a patron would leave the shopping center pro- per , enter, onto either Center Street or West Clinton Street, and travel from there to the other- structure . It increases certainly some traffic: risks, in the sense that you have an increased traf- fic flow - it also is our hope and desire that by erecting these signs that we would eliminate confusion as far as the tenants are concerned and as far- as their patrons are concerned as to where 20 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 21 the tenants are located . Are there any questions that I could address at this time -I would note that there are several of the merchants who are tenants of Clinton West in the audience tonight and if you wish they certainly can address some of the financial considerations that they have regarding the need for this sign- age . One thing - as residents of this community you might be aware - this used to be known as the Co-op building - the Ithaca Co-op . Because of that association many times the tenants uti- lize that as art identification factor in their advertising . Space in any kind of advertising is money and when they are re- sorting to utilizing the Co-op as a means for identifying their location it means that they have less money for their, basic ad- vertising budget available for merchandising . By erecting these signs it is our, hope that they could make better use of their advertising budget at this time . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Believe it or not I have one question . MR . GROFF , Sure, I ' ll be. happy to try to answer it . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You say the management has had control over the shopping center for- about a year - during that time has there ever been any study of the circulation, the traffic - the grounds -I mean if one looks at the plan, it is very clear that some of the larger- entrances may not necessarily coincide with the most heavily utilized access points, or exit points, for that matter . And, I ' m ,just kind of wondering where does the traffic really come in? Now I have a hunch, having made use of the center my- self, but has there been any study, any statistical count, any 21 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 22 real look-see as to where the signs would be best placed? MR . GROFF : I ' m not in a position to address that question , How- ever , as I indicated Lieutenant Ingersoll is here, he has exper- tise in the area of traffic study based upon his position with Cornell Police Force and if it is agreeable with you I might ask him if he would address that issue at this time . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: One more question as a corollary to that, it seems to me that - the pictures having been taken in the light of February or January, I guess it has been now - MR . GROFF . That is all that was available at the time . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That is true, but the - looking at -particular- ly the street coming down from points number G, 6A and 7,, it oc- curs to me that we have deciduous trees - that is there is going to be leaf str-uctures - all sorts of - various sorts of growth on that side . It also occurs to me that if, in fact, that entire area is grown up - short of cutting down all the trees on that side of the street, one is riot going to be able to really recog- nize what is going on on the back: side., which I think: you indica- ted was going to be the directory . MR . GROFF . No, I ' m sorry, the directory would be on the side facing east . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Inside, okay . MR . GROFF ' Arid the inside would be the schematic of the shopping center itself . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The question still stands, to what degree then k have we thought through the problem of where best to locate the 22 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 23 sign? Do you feel as though that ' s really the best location for that sign? MR. . GROFF : I think that given the constraints of the structure itself and the site available, I think it ' s the only real alter- native . The - our expectation is that most of the public that patronizes this facility tends to come from Route 13 . Those who are unfamiliar with it . Now if they are looking for particular tenants that happen to be in tenancy there - and on that basis they are not likely to be driving at fast speeds -they would be looking for where they want to go and I think that that would address; some of that consideration . As far as the trees them- selves are concerned, to the extent that they may obscure the signage, unfortunately they are located in the City of Ithaca right-of'-way, we have little or no control over how they are pruned . But I don' t believe the alternatives - that we have ser- ious alternatives available. The only other one might be to place the sign on the structure itself . If you look at photo- graphs 6 and 7, conceivably the sign could be located on the structure of the building., however I don ' t know that that would satisfactorily address the concern since it is so far set back from the street . There are a number of other photographs that were made available to you, of other signs that are in this com- munity similar- to that which we are applying for authorization to erect - one of them is located on Route 13 itself,, essentially across the street from Clinton West - that ' s the one that I think is the first one in the packet that was provided to you - it ' s an 23 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 24 orange sign and frankly I can' t read it and I don' t remember what it is , Then there is a Pipe Welding supply sign which is similar to what we would erect or we intend to erect , then you see one the Ithaca Commercial Center that is very similar to the tall, narrow sign under consideration. It is approximately the same height however it is apparently one or two feet, maybe three feet narrower than the sign that we are requesting your consideration over , Yes sir . MR . BOOTH: Is there any way that yon► can read the Ithaca Sign Ordinance that would suggest the fifty foot (50 ' ) maximum is the one that we are supposed to apply - or is riot the one we are supposed to apply? Do you have any interpretation that could lead us to a conclusion that the standard is higher than fifty feet? MR. GROFF : I can' t say that I do have an interpretation that would allow you to exceed it, other than the application proce- dure that we are before you with right now . The implication that I have from reading the Sign Ordinance at the present time, and I am not intimately familiar with it quite frankly, would indicate that more than likely the fifty foot (50 ' ) square footage is the controlling criteria., however that is the whole structure of planning and zoning in New York State is based upon the opportun- ity of a variance to deviate from that standard, given certain considerations . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any other questions? SECRETARY HOARD : There are guide lines in the back: of the . . . 24 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 25 MR . BOOTH! No, I tend to agree with him, I was just looking to see if there was something that was overlooked . MR . GROFF : Perhaps my interpretation is not correct, if so I would appreciate it if the Board or Tom could enlighten me in that regard . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well for the moment I think we had best move on . Is that okay? MR . GROFF : Do you wish to hear from any of those tenants that are here in the audience tonight regarding their- position . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: If they wish to come forward, certainly we will hear them . MR . GROFF : As I indicated, Lieutenant Ingersoll is here, you did ask a question about the study and traffic: concerns and I ' ll ask. Bart to come forward and address that issue at this time . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Fine , MR . GROFF : Thank you . I appreciate your consideration and your time . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Again, if we could begin with identification of yourself and . . . LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : Okay . I ' m Bart Ingersoll, I am connected with Clinton West as the Vice President of the Corporation, I have been and presently am a Lieutenant at Cornell, I have been involved in traffic advisement and patterns and on safety and I have looked at Clinton West . My own personal judgment, I feel, as has been explained to you that if the people coming from Route 13 to the Plaza are not familiar with the Plaza they will use the 25 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 26 first entrance to be able to realize where they want to go . The idea of putting the sign there is to keep them out of the main traffic: flow around the Plaza and get them off the street where they carr park: and visibly see what is going on . The entrance between the two buildings is probably the most used for people who know where they want to go - that do not need direction or do not need to know the name of the business to which they want to go . Probably the primary entrance is by the Convenience - this is the one that has the most traffic . . . MR . BOOTH : Which street? LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : Off of Clinton Street, West Clinton Street . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Site number 1, in other words , LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : I do not have the map in front of me . Yes right . The idea is to get them off the street, into the parking lot to an area where they can readily identify a sign or directional device and get them parked out of the main stream of the traffic . This is the closest I can come to an approximation . I have not done a numerical statistical study of the problem, it is purely based on my experience there and . . . MR . BOOTH: Why not shut off that entrance furthest west toward Route 13? LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : Shut it off? There is two or three entrances there - three or four . MR . BOOTH: Why not bring everybody into the main entrance or the main two entrances on West Clinton Street? 26 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 27 LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL : I think if you shut off the one closest to Route 13 - that entrance is used by people who know the Plaza pretty much and secondly who want to get off and start looking . I think if we can direct the traffic for the people who are con- fused - for safety sake, get them there, it would be better to get them in off the traffic at that point , then bring them in to the main traffic: pattern between both the buildings where it is -these entrances are not big - they are basically one and one- half car entrances . I don' t know if you are familiar with them but these entrances are small entrance ways . MS . JOHNSON: What about closing off those two westerly ones and making the others larger- because I think, they are hazardous if two cars are trying to come in and out at the same time . Both of those main entrances and I see people slowing down, not pulling in to read a directional sign - you know - they will slow down right on the main street and kind of read and look and act confused . LIEUTENANT INGERSOLL ' It has been my experience at Cornell - on the placement of the directional signs, to place them off and I can think: of one in particular - Carpenter ' s Circle, if you are familiar with it - there is a direction sign with a schematic on it right there in that heavily parked area and - in my experi- ence, I have noticed people pulling into it to read it - to get off out of the mainstream instead of parking on Campus Road and walking to it . I don' t know if closing off streets is an appro- priate thing really - or entrances - I don' t know . 27 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 28 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any other questions? Thank you Lieutenant . Is there anyone else who would like to speak on behalf of granting th►is variance? Come forward please . Again, beginning with identification . Mk . RUSSELL : My name is Don Fussell, I have the Convenient Food Mart down there . I am interested in the signs, mainly because it will bring me a few more dollars every week, I think . Also as Mr . Groff said, every time we have to identify ourselves as for- merly the Co-op takes up advertising space . We have several peo- ple daily who call us and want to know where we are - they have heard of us but they don ' t know where we are . We have people that find their way in every day that have never been there be- fore. I feel that the sign on Route 13 would turn more business our- way . As far as the parking lot entrances, they are hazardous - that is something that we' ve talked about the possibility of wider►ing - I don' t know as I like the idea of closing any of them off but - that ' s really all I have to say - I think all the - I ' m probably the most fortunate tenant down there because I do have the one sign erected on the street so I might have a little more visibility than some of the other ones do . As far as location of the signs., the trees really aren' t that much of a hazard . When I erected that sign - before I made it a permanent sign - I travel- led back: and forth to see what the visibility was and the leaves are a hindrance but it is a lot better than having no sign . I know when I put the sign up it more than doubled my customer count., so I feel that having the proper signage indicating the 28 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 29 other businesses that the motorists might be interested in, will also help my business . That ' s all I have to say . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions from members of the Board? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak on behalf? Come forward . MS . WHEELER: My name is Claudia Wheeler from Hill Beauty Shop . I am located on the interior of the building on the eastern side of Clinton West Plaza _ I have seven stylist in my shop - each of those girls are in business for themselves . I get complaints from them every week: about people who have problems . 1 think probably I ' m one of the ones most affected by not having the sign because they work on a thirty minute appointment slot and if peo- ple are late getting into the shop it throws off their whole day . And I am constantly getting complaints from not only the patrons but the girls . I think. I would really benefit from a sign . The other concern I have about closing off the entrances -if you are aware of the two main entrances to the Plaza, they are both real- ly small, they don ' t - two cars would have a difficult time fit- ting it-ting through those - that area is oftentimes very congested be- cause of a bus stop, because of the gas station; because of Corn Street and it is really sometimes difficult to get in and out of there, in that area. If the other - the entrance on the west side were closed, I think: it would cause a little bit of prob- lems . I know that people who are more familiar with the Plaza use the entrances on the west side, where they can just pull in . Thank you . 29 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 30 CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: Any questions? MR . BOOTH : Which street are you saying that most people pull in? Who know the Plaza? From which street? MS WHEELER: From what I notice, all entrances are used but I think people who are aware of the Plaza tend to use those entrances on the west side . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Those closest or furthest away from the City? MS , WHEELER : Furthest away - the west side., on Clinton Street . If - not that they are used - those ar-e most often used but they ar-e used I think: by people who know the area and want to get in off the street . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else? I thought there was somebody else . MS . AYERS . Hello . My name is Anne Ayers, I ' m the owner of Lit- tle Critter-s Pet Shop and Little Critters Pet Shop is located on the south side of that complex that is nearest to Route 13 . I have a good looking sign that I brought with me from 310 East State Street where I was formerly located but I understand that I am not permitted to put it on the facia board and so the only way that someone would be able to see what the store is, would be to have to drive in - in back - and look underneath and the sign is mounted - what four feet underneath and just above the entrance . So it has very little visibility - it would have no visibility from Route 13 at all and certainly none from Clinton Street at all because it is on the back: side of the building . So, for me, a sign giving Little Critters location is very definitely needed . 30 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 31 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And for you the west side or the east side of the Plaza is more important? The west side coming off of Route 13? MS . AYERS : Pardon me? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: For you, the people coming off - are chiefly coming off of Route 13? In other words . . . MS . AYERS : Or coming west on Clinton Street . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I see, so it is both ways? MS . AYERS : Yes, it is either one but I do support the other people who have advocated widening those entrances - that is very definitely called for . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further, questions? Thank you . Next? MR . COOS' : My name is Lester Cook, I ' m from the Country Craft Shop., we are located in the square building in the center of the par-king lot . I am currently in where the Cayuga Liquor and Wines used to be, the glass enclosed building . I, too, agree with the other tenants - just merely by hearing from conversation of the people that have found our store and have remarked where is so and so -they are not familiar with the complex - it is hard for them to find any of the stores inside - Bib n Cribs or any of the others - the people that I have overheard come into our complex, drove by and then saw our sign in the window, and then came back to our store. I think the directory sign in the very front of the Plaza would do us a lot of good as well as the rest of the complex . My feelings are that people are familiar with the old Co-op and they are just unfamiliar with the stores that are in- 31 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 32 side . With a directory out in front it would very clearly state who is inside and make it an easier location to drive to . The traffic - I agree for our store, probably the majority comes from Route 13 . We formerly were at the Pyramid Mall and I know where most of our clientele is coming from and the majority of our cli- entele does come down Route 13 . I work. at Ithaco and 1 deal with salesmen in my line of business there and they ' ve commented about the Cherry Street directory on the corner down there and so I do feel very strongly for some form of a directory sign out in front . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions? MR . BOOTH: Do you conclude that two of these directory signs are needed, instead of one? MR . COOK : I feel that at least two, yes . To complement both directions of traffic . For ourselves the sign in the front facing Route 13 would be more beneficial . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: More questions' Okay, thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak: in favor? MR . HUTTUNEN: My name is Hemmo Huttunen, I am probably one of the newer tenants in the complex, I moved in on March 1 . I have a small insurance office on the second floor , just above the Con- venient Food Mart . I would like to see the signs come up just for the simple reason I think it is a more professional way of showing where we are . In the short time that I ' ve been there, we have had deliveries delayed a day - supplies - because people couldn' t find me . They might do a lot of shopping at the Conven- 32 BZA MINUTE 3/18/85 PAGE : 33 fence because that is where they get their directions but I think what has been spoken here in favor of the signs, I surely would be very much for the new signs . I think two would be needed for the simple reason that there are two complexes - two different buildings - the one that I am in, is more complex yet than the smaller one on the west end . I ' m on the east end of the complex . CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: Any questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak: in favor of the granting of the variance? All right, is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition? fano one) That being the case I guess we will now proceed to the deliberations . 33 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 34 DELIBERATIONS ON APPEAL NO . 1-1-85 609 W . CLINTON STREET MS . JOHNSON: Was I right in the assumption that both signs would list all tenants? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Yes . MR . BOOTH : In both buildings . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: With a map on the back., right . MR . BOOTH : A map on one side and all the CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The listing on the other side . MR . BOOTH: On the other side, right . ' MS . JOHNSON: From the looks of the 6A, coming down the street from October through April - otherwise May to September you are riot going to see the top - at least the top half of that sign . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That is precisely my point . Yes, if it is the tall, skinny one you are not going to see it above - in the trees, that is very clear , I think there is a more convincing case being made for the other location., certainly., than the location here . MS . JOHNSON: That squat sign might be - would certainly be more visible in the back location . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And, of course by comparison it is good to point out that similar signs that are being offered as examples don ' t really correspond, do they Tom, to our present situation in all cases? SECRETARY HOARD : Well the one at the Ithaca Commercial Center did have a sign variance . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So it was a variance at that point . 34 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 35 SECRETARY HOARD : And the Pipe Welding Supply, I have to admit that that is the first time I remember seeing that sign . MR . BOOTH : Tom., how do you classify this use under 82, or under any of the uses that are listed? SECRETARY HOARD: It is really a collection of several things . Retail stores there . . . MR . BOOTH: There is no specific listing, as I see it, for a shopping center but a number- of those things fit under several of the items, do I read it correctly? SECRETARY HOARD : Right . MR , BOOTH: I would also like to ask Tom if he recalls the circumstances under which the Sign Ordinance apparently was amended to deal with shopping centers and other multi-use facilities . SECRETARY HOARD : Where are you? MR . BOOTH: I ' m on page 34 . 66D - page 34 . 11 . In the case of shopping centers• and other- multi-use facilities one freestanding sign shall be allowed to a development as a whole and not for each individual use . Do you have any recollection of the circum- stances that surrounded that amendment? SECRETARY HOARD : Back in 77? MR. BOOTH : I know it is going back a long way, 34 . 11 . SECRETARY HOARD : No I don' t remember why it was put where it is . Or even what was amended . MR . BOOTH : You don ' t remember? SECRETARY HOARD : No . 35 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 36 MS . FARRELL : If this was a B5 zone, the shopping center would be allowed one hundred and fifty ( 150) square feet of sign? SECRETARY HOARD : Yes . MR . BOOTH: Plus each - does that mean also that each establishment could also have one hundred and fifty ( 150) square feet? The provision that Tracy ,just read, 65 zone? SECRETARY HOARD: No . Each establishment, yes., but the Center as a whole would have one big freestanding sign . In other words, like Tops can have a big TOPS on the building., then they can have a big TOPS sign out in front because they were there first . MR . BOOTH: So each establishment can have one hundred and fifty ( 150 ) square feet? SECRETARY HOARD : Yes . MR . BOOTH: And then the facility as a whole can have one freestanding sign? SECRETARY HOARD : Right . And so really in terms of total square footage of signage they ar-e well below what this would allow. MS . FARRELL : If we gray►ted the variance for the freestanding signs, since they are in a B2 district, they wouldn ' t be allowed to have this much signage on their building, as well, right? SECRETARY HOARD : Right, you would be granting permission for the specific signs that they are asking for-, or as you modify it , It doesn ' t rezone the area . MR . BOOTH : Tom, do you read the exception on page 34 . 11 , Subdivision C of that same section - that, as I read it only applys to signs that are attached to a building? 36 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 37 SECRETARY HOARD : Well, yes . MR . BOOTH: This is to deal with buildings that face on two streets . SECRETARY HOARD: Right . It is sort of a strange thing anyway because you are allowed - it doesn' t give you any more than you' d be allowed otherwise . You would be allowed to have two signs on the face of the building whether they are this way or this way . . . MR . BOOTH: The total can' t be any greater? SECRETARY HOARD : The total can' t be any greater, no . 1 think this is an unusual case, this particular shopping center because it is split and it has entrances all over the place, not like some of the other ones where you come in one area and everything is laid out in front of you . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So one of the practical difficulties might be the design itself, of the shopping center . Stewart any further thoughts? MR . SCHWAB : One thing that is interesting to me, it seems if we are going to grant them the tall, skinny sign, actually it has less square footage and closer to the Ordinance . MR . BOOTH: I calculated that while we were sitting here . MS . FARRELL : However that one doesn ' t eliminate the original shopping center sign, so you would have to add that in . Whereas the other one replaces that . MR . SCHWAB : No it does not replace it , MS . FARRELL : Oh right . It just doesn ' t have arty freestanding so it is the same as f_unintelligiblel 37 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 38 MS . JOHNSON: (unintelligible - 1 people were talking at once) MR . SCHWAB ' So it strikes me if we are going to grant, I would be inclined to give them their first choice . However, that seems odd, the tall one . MR . BOOTH: Six by sixteen feet, eight (5 x 15 ' 8") comes out to just a fraction over a hundred square feet . So two of them would tie a fraction oven two hundred square feet . Nine feet, six by eleven feet nine (9 ' 6" x 11 ' 9") comes out to a little more than one hundred thirteen ( 113) square feet, almost one hundred fourteen ( 114) square feet . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So in general people ' s preferences seem to be leaning toward the tall, skinny one as opposed to the short and squat . MS . FARRELL : Mine aren ' t . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: No? MS . FARRELL : No . I don' t like to have the two separate signs . MR . BOOTH: I don ' t understand . MS . FARRELL : To leave this standing sign and then to add that tall, skinny one in front of it - I really think that ' s not a good idea . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well do we have arty better ideas? SECRETARY HOARD : I think: I have different math . MR . BOOTH : What do you have? SECRETARY HOARD : I have for the tall, skinny one, ninety-nine point nine , six (50 . 95) per sign . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Oh, that ' s better-, we like that better . 38 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 39 SECRETARY HOARD : And for the squat one, one hundred and eleven point sir two five ( 111 . 625) . MS . JOHNSON: I have one hundred fourteen ( 114) for the tall one . SECRETARY HOARD : I have a calculator . MR . BOOTH: I used his calculator , They are very close though . MR . SCHWAB : It ' s the same idea, right? MR . BOOTH: Depending on the fraction that you are using for two-thirds . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Can we deal with the broader issues, not the MR . BOOTH: The basic problem that we have, is we are being asked for a variance that will allow between two hundred and fifty ( 250) square feet and two hundred and seventy-seven ( 277) square feet . As opposed to a requirement that would allow fifty (50) squar-e feet . The total signage - the two proposals, as I under- stand it, one will be for the squat signs will be two hundred and fifty ( 250) square feet with the existing sign., give or take a fraction. And for- the tall., skinny signs you will have a total of two hundred seventy-seven ( 277) square feet . And the Ordi- nance allows - in this district - fifty (50) square feet . Now we have granted sign variance=_: in the past, in fact we had a major discussion just a few months ago with the Ramada . To my recol- lection we have never granted a sign variance - at least since I have been on the Board - that remotely approached this scale of variance . Tom, have I missed something in my recollection or . . . I have tried to go back: and remember the sign variances we' ve had - there haven' t been very many of them . 39 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 40 SECRETARY HOARD: I can' t think of any . But I can' t think: of any other situations . . . . MR . BOOTH : I understand . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is it the case that perhaps we are stuck on just the magnitude? If one were - to throw out an idea - to think: about site number one or the alternate site number one, to allow that and perhaps not proceed with the second site - that is the one that is back: further on the lot, closer into town., admit- ting , for- the moment, that there may be difficulties but chiefly the purpose would be visibility from Route 13 and some sense of direction . Is that more palatable? MS . FARRELL : I wonder if that might be adequate if another Clinton West sign, that is about the size of the present one were added in the back? So that there was a major directory sign up front and there was just a shopping center identification in the back? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further thoughts? MR. BOOTH' Well again I think we have to err on the conservative side because the City Council has thought about the problem of shopping centers and multi-use facilities and have said . . . SECRETARY HOARD: And they' ve put up a sign that doesn' t conform to the thoughts - the Sign Ordinance . MR , BOOTH: I understand, the City has not complied with the Ordinance and that ' s a different problem and that ' s not one that we can solve but the Ordinance reflects a specific focus on this kind of problem and we need to be concerned about that . 40 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 41 MS . JOHNSON: I feel, as Tracy does, that the two signs would really tie an eyesore and confusing and distracting . I ' d much rather see a squat sign under the existing one . Arid I think the tall, skinny sign on the eastern► side of the shopping center will be virtually unusable, half the year and the squat sign will be better there., or even a smaller- sign of the sort that they have now . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well that ' s a good position statement . 41 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 42 APPEAL NO , 1-1-85 609 WEST CLINTON STREET (CLINTON WEST SHOPPING PLAZA) The Board considered the request of Clinton West Ltd . for a sign variance to permit the addition of two additional freestanding signs of a directional/informational nature to the Clinton West Shopping Plaza at 607 West Clinton Street . The decision of the Board was as follows : MR . BOOTH : I move that the Boar-d grant the sign variance requested in appeal number 1-1-85 modified as follows : 1 ) There may be one directory sign of either the short version or the tall version with a maximum sign area of 114 . 0 square feet . 2 ) The sign is to be located in such a way as to be visible from Route 13 on the west and from W . Clinton Street on the east . 3 ) The existing freestanding signs would be removed except that the Clinton West sign may be incorporated in the new sign . 4) The additional directional sign or free- standing sign is not allowed eastward on E . Clinton Street . MS . FARRELL : I second the motion . FINDINGS OF FACT : 42 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 43 1 ) There are two major structures on this property and those structures and their internal arrangements do create dif- ficulties for people trying to find commercial uses in Clinton West Plaza, 21 The dimension of the site is such that it is visible from and accessible from three different public ways which indicates the need for greater signage visibility than a normal situation where a commercial use is located on essentially one public way . 3) This is a commercial use which is attempting to redevelop existing buildings and creating a different configuration of buildings on the property would be a financial difficulty of very great impact . 4) Because one of the major access points is Route 13, the nature of traffic on that highway would indicate that a larger sign is necessary to provide adequate service to this property . 5) The pr-opos-al as outlined in the applicant ' s application involving three signs totaling between 250 and 277 square feet approximately - would involve a very large variance which does not seem to be justified in this case . VOTE : 5 YES; 0 NO, 1 ABSENT GRANTED/WITH MODIFICATIONS 43 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 44 SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is APPEAL NO . 1600 - 120 HIGHLAND PLACE Appeal of Harold Schultz for an interpretation of the meaning of "new construction" as used in Sec- tion 30 . 25, Column 6 of the Zoning Ordinance (or a variance in the event of an unfavorable inter- pretation) as it applies to minimum lot size re- quirements, and an area variance for deficient rear yard setback under Section 30 . 25, Column 10, and a variance from the parking setbacks under Section 30 . 37, Paragraph ASb, to permit an addi- tion to the existing apartment building at 120 Highland Place . The addition would include two three-bedroom apartments, and a penthouse would also be added, bringing the total to two four- bedroom apartments and five three-bedroom apart- ments . To meet the off-street parking require- ments additional parking spaces would be pro- vided, two of which would parallel to, and within twenty feet of the front property line . The property is located in an R-3a (Residential, mul- tiple dwelling) use district, in which the pro- posed use is permitted; however, under Section 30 . 49 the appellant must obtain an area variance (and favorable interpretation) for the deficien- cies listed before a building permit or Certifi- cate of Occupancy can be issued for the proposed construction . This appeal was held over by the Planning and Development Board so that the Envir- onmental Assessment could be reviewed by that Board . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Again, if you will begin with identification . MR . VINEBERG: My name is Ken Vineberg, I ' m a Designer here in town, I ' m do►ing the design work on this building , This machine shows slides and the photographs we have are slides . SECRETARY HOARD: Those weren' t taken recently . MR . VINEBERG: No, they were taken in the summertime . This is the site and the building at issue . I am showing this slide just to orient everybody, it is the most familiar picture of the buil- ding . Can you see its' What I would like to point out about this 44 i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 45 elide is that the addition that we are proposing would be -would continue clown the edge of the gorge from the end of the building here, in other words it would continue to the right in this pho- tograph and it would be behind the trees which grow in the gorge on Cornell property so that when the leaves are on the trees three-quarters of the year, the addition will not be visible from the gorge . Now this photograph was taken from the College Avenue bridge looking down C:ascadilla Gorge . That gives you a general idea of what we are talking about . There are several issues in- volved here . Shall I go through briefly what we intend to do with this building? It ' s written up but . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Briefly . MR. VINEBERG Okay . The owner- lives in the building, it is an owner-occupied building . The owner occupies the basement apart- ment . He would like to build a penthouse apartment and occupy that . The penthouse would be most of the existing top floor of the building., a small part of it would be on the roof of the ex- isting building . The building now has a two-bedroom, a three- bedroom and two four-bedroom apartments . What we want to do is we want to end up with the penthouse on the roof that the owner would occupy, we want to end up with two four-bedroom and five three-bedroom apartments, so we are going to increase it from four apartments in the building to seven apartments in the build- ing . The first thing I asked for was an interpretation of the zoning code and this involves the - on the zoning map in column 6 there is a specification for how many square feet of land you 45 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 45 need., based on how many apartments you have in your building and the way it is specified is that if you have new construction the first three units of apartments should have six thousand square feet of land. If you are dealing with a converted building the first three units of apartments should have seven thousand square feet of land. Now I am asking for an interpretation on this - I went and talked with Mr . Meigs of the Planning Department and he said that the intention behind this part of the Ordinance is to set a general relationship of a number of units to land area based on the type of building involved and the idea was that a converted building would be less space efficient and therefore would require more land and that in general the notion was that a converted building would be a house that had been turned into apartments and therefore, having been a house would not be as efficient as an apartment building . In this case - this is a converted building but it was not a house originally and the con- version to apartments was very efficient and I would like to show some slides . This shows the street side of the building - the building is four stories and it has four apartments, one on each floor . The entrances are all directly from outside - there is no internal staircases . The entrances are through bridges into the apartment on the two upper floors, you will see a better view of ' that here you see the entrance to the apartment on this floor,, directly off grade and there is another entrance down here to the lowest apartment . So it ' s a very efficient use of the space - it is not a residential space - no porches or out build- 46 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 47 ings that take up land use that would make it a less efficient use of the space . So I think, in terms of construction, it is very typical of new apartment construction and therefore should be considered as new apartment construction in terms of the amount of land required to go with the number of units . I think this is a case of understanding the intention of the Ordinance and the spirit of the Ordinance . I don ' t think: I am asking for a variance in the intentions at all, I think I am ,just trying to determine or get approval of the fact that this is an efficient building and a new building built today may have had the same amount of square footage as the number of units . Then there is the question of the appeal on the rear yard deficiency . At issue here is a requirement for twenty percent of the lot depth as a rear yard . That would require fourteen feet of rear yard . The existing building is on the rim of the gorge and the property lire is on the rim of the gorge so the existing building has vir- tually no rear yard . The addition that we are proposing does step away from that edge and the rear, yard for the addition would vary from five to ten feet - now that shows up on a site plan that came with the appeal and would be drawing number 3 - shows where the addition would be in relation to the back yard . I think: with the requirement fourteen feet - we have five to ten feet - I think is a somewhat insubstantial deviation . There is obviously no neighbors in the rear yard - there is no possibility of building close to this rear yard . The reason that we are ask- ing to build the building at this point on the site is that to 47 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 47 ings that take up land use that would make it a less efficient use Of the space . So I think, in terms of construction, it is very typical of new apartment construction and therefore should be considered as new apartment construction in terms of the amount of land required to go with the number of units . I think this is a ease of understanding the intention of the Ordinance and the spirit of the Ordinance. I don ' t think I am asking for a variance in the intentions at all, I think I am just trying to determine or get approval of the fact that this is an efficient building and a new building built today may have had the same amount of square footage as the number of units . Then there is the question of the appeal on the rear yard deficiency . At issue here is a requirement for twenty percent of the lot depth as a rear yard. That would require fourteen feet of rear yard . The existing building is on the rim of the gorge and the property line is on the rim of the gorge so the existing building has vir- tually no rear yard . The addition that we are proposing does step away from that edge and the rear yard for the addition would vary from five to ten feet - now that shows up on a site plan that came with the appeal and would be drawing number 3 - shows where the addition would be in relation to the back yard . I think: with the requirement fourteen feet - we have five to ten feet - I think is a somewhat insubstantial deviation. There is obviously no neighbors in the rear yard - there is no possibility of building close to this rear yard . The reason that we are ask- ing to build the building at this point on the site is that to 47 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 48 provide the required off-street parking, we are going to need a retaining wall near the back: of the site and that retaining wall would work very well as a rear foundation . We are also trying to maintain a view - a very dramatic view which you get from the existing apartment building that looks up the gorge toward the College Avenue bridge - in order to maintain that view the addi- tion would have to be situated near the back of the site . Most important of all is that the existing building has these en- trances., directly off the site - second entrance for these or the second exit for these apartments is generally onto a wooden porch which runs along the rim of the gorge and then is connected to the ground. That is a second exit for fire exit at the moment and it ' s legal by previous standards . The new building - the addition that we want to put up would incorporate a new fire exit which would be an interior exit of masonry construction and by tying the two buildings together I can use that exit as a fire exit for the existing building . So I want to keep the building back: on the site where I can connect to the existing building and provide the second exit . The other issue - the next issue on the - in terms of the variance is based on the amount of square foot- age required . Now if the variance is interpreted the way I see it here as this being comparable to new construction, then the zoning would require nine thousand square feet of land to accom- modate seven apartment units . We have eight thousand eight hun- dred and thirty-two square feet of land so we are short by one hundred and sixty-eight square feet . Again I think:, in terms of 48 the nine thousand square feet of required, the one hundred sixty-eight is somewhat insubstantial . But the main reason we are asking for this variance is,, again, well it is based on prac- tical difficulties having to do with construction . We are having to provide off-street parking which is going to be very expensive on the site because of the sloping site . It requires a major retaining wall and in order to provide the required nine spaces the rough estimates for the retaining wall and the grading and the parking would mean that for the nine cars we are going to be spending maybe three thousand dollars per car for parking spaces . So in order to provide the parking we have to build enough units to make the project feasible . Now if we built the one unit that we could build without asking for any variance we would still have to provide two more parking spaces in the site currently provides., we' d have to do a substantial amount of this regrading and retaining wall work: . Obviously we can ' t justify the expense for the additional one unit . We also will have very expensive foundation costs, also because of the nature of the site . We are going to have very expensive construction costs because intention here is to do a building of a very high quality that would match the detailing of this existing building and these brick construc- tion - the same arch lintels over the windows - the same detail- ing that was available when this building was built . So we have a very expensive building that we are proposing here . Also we are - so the expense is why we were trying to do the number of units that we are doing . We' ve tried to stay within the zoning 49 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 50 and we are short this one hundred sixty-eight square feet in terms of number of units but as far as the condition on percent of lot coverage - which is thirty-five percent -we are staying within that requirement and I provided a site plan of the area - this drawing number 5 in my appeal -which shows the buildings in the neighborhood and the amount of lot that goes with them and I think ,just looking at it you will see that we are providing the amount of open space on our lot is equal to the properties in this neighborhood in general . In other words I think the vari- ance is setting a general condition. From looking at the build- ings on Williams Street in particular and many in the middle of this Highland Place area., many of the existing buildings cover more of the lot than we would be covering, so it ' s not a higher density construction than exists at the moment . That covers the issues of square footage . We also are appealing an issue of par- king . Here , this slide shows the existing parking in front of the building and there is also a map which is - these numbers by the way , are in the upper right hand corner of the drawings - drawing number 2 - the existing parking for this building is five spaces . They are directly off the street and require major curb cut and they are perpendicular to the street -each space is ap- proached directly off the street . It is deficient by one space because it was existing that way but it does not meet the current zoning requirements for off-street parking . What we tried to do here is to really make a major improvement on the situation . Now the variance issue is that when you do off-street parking you are 50 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 51 riot allowed to have spaces irk your front yard - the front yard r"equir"ed by zoning . Well in this case the front yard requirement is twenty feet and the parking that we are pr-oposing which is in Z�I[' tiNLifliT if!tSi7Elt��iL:K' ;. ;�lilid� Mtit :K'v: ,�!t' ': ':W.; f�lf" IdYI!![1; I[s1!iUi1{iltti :1C' '_; — th.e.r.e: D' an earlier version and a later version -this is the revised ver- sion . The parking we ar-e proposing would put two spaces that were in that front yard but that is two spaces" as opposed to the five spaces that are currently in the front yard. So that is the issue. her-e., is these two spaces that would be in the front yard but we ar-e going to eliminate a deficiency of one space, we are going to provide all of the r'equir'ed off-street parking, we are going to have only two spaces in that front yard instead of the existing five spaces which ar-e now in the front yard . We are also going to reduce the curb cut from the current curb cut of forty-five feet to just an entrance into this parking area which would be a curb cut of eighteen feet . And then - and it is also shown in this drawing number- 4., which shows the parking, there is a condition whereby on the street, there is room now for only one car" in an area between an existing fire hydrant and the existing five off-street spaces . As a matter of fact, this car here is parked in that street space that is available at the moment . By eliminating these spaces that are on the street by diminishing the cur-b cut, we ' ll be able to park three cars on the street where there is only one car parked now . Now we aren' t intending to use that space but, in other words", the rearrangement of the parking will provide more on-street parking in this neighborhood 51 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 52 to improve the conditions of parking . M5 . JOHNSON, Excuse me . Is: there on-street parking allowed there now, overnight? MR . VINEBERG: Not overnight, no . It is only during the day but it is heavily used during the day . MR . BOOTH: Isn' t there quite often ort-street parking overnight, as a matter of fact? MR . VINEBERG: I am not familiar with whether there would be or not but I imagine they are ticketed, I don ' t know . Actually, occasionally I ' ve been by and I think there are signs that say "No overnight parking" and I think they are very strict about that . MR. BOOTH: I was there early Sunday morning and had to park in front of the fire hydrant . MR . VINEBERG. To be able to park . Well, what I am suggesting here is that we are improving the condition for the daytime use . Of c:ourse, we are providing our- off-street parking as required by Code . I ' m going through this rather quickly - I ' ve made a more elaborate case in the appeal itself but I wanted to show the pic- tures that went with this: and cover the general issues . What I want to do - I want to basically summarize what we ' ve tried to do here - the intention was to do a really good project and as the designer- I was well aware of what the Board would find objection- able in a project like this and that ' s basically that Collegetown is a crowded situation and there are problems with parking and congestion in traffic . We' ve tried to address these problems . 52 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 53 We are trying to create a situation on the street that would be preferable to the existing condition, both in terms of the park- ing and in terms of the quality of the building that is there . I think: by trying to eliminate the one space deficiency and provide off-street parking we are trying to address that issue . By try- ing to create two extra spaces on the street, we are trying to address that issue . In terms of the aesthetic issues and envir- onmental issues the - we' ve been before the Planning and Develop- ment Board twice and they raised many issues and they are the ones who asked for the environmental impact assessment form. The assessment form was very interesting, I looked at it at first hoping to find that there was nothing in this building that vio- lated the requirements of this assessment and what I found was no, in fact we were raising many issues that were in the assess- merit form. We were raising issues and then I found - thought the design was addressing those issues and, in fact I thought the assessment form just made - in some cases - a case for how this building was trying to address these issues . I don' t know if you had a chancre to look: at that assessment form but in particular there was the issue of blocking the current view of the gorge, which you get from the street . Now as you can see there is gen- orally a small space between each building on the street and then there is a rather, large gap here which is the property that we want to build on and., in fact, that is a view of the gorge - which is., of course, directly across . I had already tried - in the way that I designed the building - and that shows in the 53 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 54 sk:etc;hes of the building that are part of the assessment -the environmental assessment . I tried to do something that I thought was very interesting which was to go from this sketch of the ex- isting - where there is just this amorphous space between two buildings and cars parked right on the street . This sketch here where the view of the gorge is basically a view through large openings in the building is a frame view. There is a sunken court yard here which is the entrance to this apartment and to the further apartment down below and to these apartments here and it ' s very much like a condition on Myron Taylor Hall at Cornell where you - the building is on the rim of the hillside and blocks the view out over the valley but as you approach the building you go into a little courtyard and then you look through archways in the building and you see out over- the valley and it is much more dramatic: . That is the kind of thing I was trying to do with the design and in filling out the assessment form I realized that - you know - I was dealing with this issue of changing the site and changing the views of the gorge . MR . BOOTH : Where would the cars be parked? MFS . VINEBERG: The cars would be parked in this area . Most of them are parallel to the building in this area, and there are two that are back underneath this archway . Then, hopefully, these low walls would somewhat screen it., and we' ve got the narrower entrance here and there would be, hopefully,, planting, you know, in this front area to screen cars and along the edges and side . One of the other- issues that was raised was how this building 54 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 55 would look from the gorge and Cornell University was very con- cerned about that and there was an exchange of letters and one of the things that came out of that was that we are very interested in - well first of all - in - by providing a new fire exit in the new addition, we can take away a lot of the stair cases that are in the porch that overlooks the gorge and we can make that a very clean., tidy sort of porch - it would just be a railing which we can redo and porch face arid we can repaint it and one of the things that we are considering - Cornell ' s intention was to not see the building and it is very hard to do but we can plant some sort of flowering vines that might wind up the porch and make this into something kind of - you know -rather exotic and plea- sant looking . we are also willing to plant ivy on the brick building itself . There is some growing on this side but we can add it to the gorge side . So that the building would be more green in the summertime - and it would be bright colors in the fall . So., I think. the building is attempting to solve a lot of problems - we' ve presented the scheme as it stands, to the Plan- ning and Development Board and we got their endorsement . We also presented the scheme to the Design and Review Board and we re- ceived their endorsement . They asked for certain conditions which we had intended anyway, that the retaining wall that pro- vides the parking area and the foundation for the building would be faced with stone on the gorge side . One of the other issues here is precedent . How reasonable is it to build along the gorge . Obviously this building is much more dramatic and much 55 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 56 more visible than most others . The addition we are proposing is not as dramatic . It is going to be screened by the trees . There are many buildings which ar-e in similar relation to the gorge edge - is the addition we are proposing -there are two fraternity houses on the opposite of the gorge -one of them shows up here in this picture - and you can see - the gorge is not a cliff at that point but that fraternity is right on the edge of the gorge - it is a very major building . And there is another fraternity house just down from it that is situated the same way . So I don ' t think the addition we are proposing is anything unusual in terms of use of the gorge . The hope is that - you know - the intention is to deal with the building which is there, which is very much on the gorge edge and make some very major improvements in terms of repairs and improvements to the porch, eliminating those stair cases . There was another- case which was somewhat of a precedent for this one too, on Fall Creek Gorge, there is a private home that was designed by Steve Mensch that is right at the Stewart Avenue bridge and he applied for a variance for that project in 1978 and there was an existing building which was an old meeting house - society meeting house and it was abandoned and he was going to make a house out of it by renovating that and adding to it, and he had the same problems that we have, he had a very sloping site which required that his parking be in the existing front yard and he lacked the rear yard because the building he was proposing was going to be directly on the gorge edge . The argument he made, besides the practical difficulties of building 56 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 57 on the site: was that this was a way of preserving this rather unusual structure and doing something useful with it . And that variance was granted and I think the project that resulted was very nice . MR. BOOTH: What kind of a house was that? MR . VINEBERG: It was a - rather a modern home, I guess . MR . BOOTH : Is it now a single family dwelling? MR . VINEBERG: Single family dwelling, yes, that was the inten- tion and that is what it is . The final point is that there are two ways to solve problems when you are involved in design, as I am and when you are involved in zoning as you are . I ' m here re- ferring to the problems in this neighborhood and in Collegetown . From my orientation, have to solve problems by what I build and in a project like this, I feel I am very - I addressed as many problems as I can and I try and create a building which not only solves the client ' s demands - which was for a certain number of units to justify the cost of construction, but I try to solve all the problems I see on the site. with my building and it is only through construction that I can address these issues . The Zoning Board is in exactly the opposite position, you have to solve problems by riot allowing construction and I think what I am sug- gesting here is that I can solve more problems by building this structure than can be solved by not building on this particular site at this time and the improvements I can make to this site and to the building to the use of the site and to the parking . I think that covers it . I ' d like to answer questions, especially 57 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 58 as they relate to the environmental assessment or to . . . MR. SCHWAB : Cornell Plantations suggested three things, actually four., one is (unintelligible) as I understand it, you are agreeing to one and three but not the porches, number 2? MR , VINEBERG: We are agreeing to one and four . One is to be careful during construction and condition number four is to main- tain the site, keep it clean . Their other conditions, two and three, was - their desire was to hide the building - they -and you remember from the first slide., they want it to disappear, and, in fact ( unintelligible) their- notion was that we could re- move the porches and plant pine trees instead of the porches and therefore screen the building from view entirely . First of all we want that view, the building has that view and that ' s the charm of the building - it is not something the owner wants to give up, but also those porches are the only way to maintain that wall of the building . There is only a six foot space of porch and therefore there is only six feet of land there and to be able to go up four stories when you are on this cliff edge and replace glass or repaint window frames or repoint brick, the porches make it - not quite simple - but it would be incredibly difficult otherwise, so we thought that was a rather unreasonable solution to the problem. The idea of trying to do something to make the building of a building and more vegetation seemed reasonable -you know - I tried in the drawings to show the building from that gorge side - then going from a condition like this - the railings are now only a chain link fence - there is all these wooden stair 58 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 59 cases that wind all over, the porches, we would be able to go to a condition like this where we can do something really nice with the railings, in terms of wooden railings and we can eliminate all these stair cases - we can plant ivy over all the brick areas of the building - we can definitely - there is enough land to plant any kind of flowering vine that could climb up these porches and provide that vegetation on the edge. It could turn into something quite marvelous and that ' s my approach to these kinds of problems - to try and make something out of the problem. So that is what I proposed to Cornell., after I received that and I never did get a response from them. I would like to point out that in their, earlier- letter, the one in which they make these four proposals, they do say that they would like to see the buil- ding removed but in the short term they say, "We believe that the proposed development plan, if executed with sensitivity could enhance the present appearance of the setting . " Arid I think that is what we are trying to do is to do something in addition to the current situation . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further questions? MR , BOOTH . What is the size of these parking spaces? MR , VINEBERG: They were the minimum, it was nine by twenty, one hundred and eighty square feet . MR . BOOTH: What would the truck: traffic be - construction traffic? MR . VINEBERG : That was one of the issues brought up in the as- sessment . We had wanted to phase construction in order to avoid 59 r BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 60 having to work: in the wintertime on this precarious site . So that would mean that things would be done in stages and in the assessment I said we first would do the retaining wall and the par-king., foundation work in one summer . We ' d build the building the addition., the next summer . We' d do the penthouse apartment the third summer , There would be truck traffic primarily during that first phase of the foundations where there would be some fill that would be brought in - there would be some concrete that would k►e brought in but it would be during the summertime when the student population is somewhat reduced . And it ' s a relative- ly small project compared to the impact of the projects that are going on there now and this would, I think, be quite invisible in fact, to what would be happening with the Travis project and the Performing Arts Center but there would be truck traffic during that first phase . The subsequent phases would be delivering ma- terials - wouldn' t be that serious . MS . JOHNSON: I have a question on the parking . It is hard to tell from the drawing that shows the addition and then from the street view of the additional parking - it looks to me like there are going to be three cars parked visible from the gorge . MR . VINEBERG: Yes there would be two . In that drawing that shows parking, cars number one and two would be parked in that archway which shows up in both sketches . MS . JOHNSON; What is the height of that little wall there? MR . VINEBERG : Well it certainly, you see that - the intention would be to build the wall to totally screen the car - that ' s the 60 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 61 whole idea of the wall . Of course., the wall is also providing the stop for the czars so people feel safe driving in - but it ' s quite - it ' s absolutely the intention that the car would not be visible from the gorge side . I ' ll show you that in this sketch -the two large arches in the building - this one is just a pedes- trian space that would give on to a little bit of an overlook and this is also the entrance to the basement apartment . This larger, upper archway would be where two cars are parked and they would be - this wall would be a three or four- foot high wall and the cars would be behind that . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The question I think which is being asked, in part, is parking space number three in drawing number four in or outside of the building as proposed in your view from the street? MR . VINEBERG: Right . It is inside the building and is screened from the gorge by the building and that shows up better in the sketch which shows the view of the building from the street . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So what you are saying is, that you are going to go through the building and turn right to get into parking space number three? MR . VINEBERG : What I am saying is that I did - you know - the design was in development through the course of these meetings and the current intention is that space number three would be under the building but that this wall here would be pushed back the nine feet to provide a space right here, inside the building but the building would still come to the ground beyond that space, okay? 61 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 62 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN! I see, okay . Thank. you . MR . VINEBERG: Is that clear now to everybody? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? MS . JOHNSON' Has it - I don' t know what - you are a designer but I ' m real concerned about the structural engineering and the geo- logists and the people' s - the foundations engineers and all these other people . If we are charged with the public welfare here, I ' m still a little nervous about perching another few fam- ilies on the edge of that gorge. I also don ' t understand -this is the second part of my concern, how, if the people occupying this new part of this structure, will have a view of the gorge how will the gorge not have a view of them? MR . VINEBERG: Oh, they will have a view through the trees . Let me show you two slides again. You are right to the extent that the view from the new building would be through trees and it would not be as good a view as in the existing building when the trees aren' t there . And these trees are the ones that show up, right here, which are in the gorge . MS . JOHNSON, And those are on the plantation - the University easement there? MR . VINEBERG : They are partly in that little spot you see, but also, what happens is - the reason this building shows up so strongly is that the gorge is a sheer drop, at that point, but where we are adding on the gorge is no longer a sheer drop and has a winter view . This show_: the building in the winter - you can see that there is a cliff edge where the existing building 62 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 63 is . Cour addition will be way back. here on that little rim of the gorge . That will be the front edge of the addition . You can see - in the wintertime the trees that are in front of it - also the gorge terraces down quite gradually, like the fraternity house opposite it, in this location . You can see where the snow sits on the ground and these are all trees, so the foundation issues for the addition are not a serious problem at all, we are build- ing from five to ten feet back: from an edge , which steps down a little bit to another terrace of the gorge which steps down to another- terrace of the gorge . So we ar-e not on a cliff edge at all and it is solid rock: . The existing building is quite precar- ious and we did some careful measurements - from the footings to the solid rock: of the cliff, which - the cliff is undercut a bit but to the point furthest in on the undercut there is three feet of rock: that the footings are back: from that undercut cliff face . CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: Ken., at this point I think it is well to point out that the Board of Zoning Appeals., though it may be interested in geology., has no say whether or not there is clay or rock or what riot - else, that is really not the heart of the issue . If you can direct your points., if there are any more, specifically to how the appeal is going to be affected . MR . VINEBERG: I think the point here is that the owner would be making a very poor investment if he built a building that would fall into the gorge . We ar-e going to have engineering studies on the addition and the project won' t continue if the engineers feel , it is not a safe project . 63 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 64 CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: Any other- questions? MS . JOHNSON: I guess I misinterpreted our charge from the beginning of CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: Well we' ll have to feel from the beginning to the end and make a list of things after . . . Tracy, any questions? MS . FARRELL : I don' t have anymore questions . CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: Stewart? (none) Thank you Ken. Is there any- one else who would like to speak on behalf of granting the vari- ance? Is there anyone out there who would like to speak in oppo- sition? ( no one) Do we have any letters? ( none) We will then begin our deliberation, and I think the first thing we have to think about is the interpretation of the meaning of new construc- tion as used in Section 30 . 15, Column 6 . 64 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 65 DELIBERATIONS OF THE BOARD ON APPEAL NO . 1600 120 HIGHLAND PLACE SECRETARY HOARD: I have a different interpretation than Mr . Meigs has , just for what it ' s. worth . The reason that the rezoning in 1977 set the minimum lot size for multiple dwelling for new construction, a lower amount, for smaller lot size than a conver- sion was that they were trying to encourage new construction on a vacant lot and somewhat trying to discourage the conversion of buildings . I ' m not saying that to try to influence the decision here, but it ' s: just that that was the thinking then, at that time, and that the Ordinance does clearly talk about conversion as being adding to or changing to an existing building . MR . BOOTH: You remembered 1g77 very well in that instance . SECRETARY HOARD: Yes., it wasn' t the Sign Ordinance . MR . BOOTH: I think Tom has touched on the critical point and that is the definition► of conversion in the Ordinance on page 30 . 4, which shall mean the changing of use or occupancy by alteration, addition or by other reorganization . I ' m not sure as it is very unclear at all CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well let ' s ,just say its possible by looking at other parts of the Zoning Ordinance to find apparent descrepancies . MR . BOOTH: Well, what would you point to? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m not pointing to to anything, I ' m assuming that ' s the reason for its being brought forward . SECRETARY HOARD: I would agree with that . 65 i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 67 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1600A MR . BOOTH : I would move that the Board of Zoning Appeals treat this specific proposal as a conversion and not as new development and would suggest the basis for that motion is the definition of the term "conversion" in the Zoning Ordinance . MS . FARRELL : I second the motion . MR. BOOTH' I would add by way of discussion that I think Tom' s suggestion as to what was intended, that is., that smaller lots would be allowed for new construction, somewhat larger lots for conversions makes sense in terms of - we are not a Planning Board - it would seem to make planning sense from the perspective that the City Council could legitimately have been interested in try- ing to maintain existing patterns of use and thereby encouraging larger lot sizes than where there was new construction . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay, let ' s be clear in that this is a multi-part appeal, that is, it has a part which asks for an interpretation and also then noes on for a question of a variance, so this will be marked as appeal number 1600A for the record and further be clear that a positive vote in this instance would mean that we are not agreeing with the appellant, correct? and that we are confirming under- another section that this is in fact, new construction . True? MR . BOOTH: A vote in the affirmative would mean that we are treating this as a conversion . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: As a conversion . 67 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 68 SECRETARY HOARD : Right . MR , BOOTH: And not as new construction . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Clear? 1600A . VOTE : 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That means we go on to the consideration of a variance as it applies to minimum lot size requirements and an area variance for deficient rear yard setback under section 30 . 25., Column 10, and a variance from the parking setbacks under section 30 . 37 . 68 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 69 DISCUSSION OF THE BOARD ON APPEAL NO . 1600B 120 HIGHLAND PLACE (Changed tape here, missed some of the discussion) CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And those numbers would be moved to? SECRETARY HOARD: Would add a thousand square feet . MS . FARRELL : (UNINTELLIGIBLE) CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: A thousand square feet to all columns? Further discussion? MR. BOOTH: Wait a minute . So E would become ten thousand square feet? SECRETARY HOARD : Right . MR, BOOTH: Why would B become - oh, I see . Seven thousand plus seven fifty . MS . FARRELL : So it would be deficient by . . . MR . BOOTH: Eleven hundred and sixty-eight square feet . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further discussion? MR . SCHWAB : I ' m concerned about the view from the gorge, across the gorge at the College Avenue bridge . It is true the main problem is the existing building but I ' m concerned about adding to it . MS . FARRELL : I ' m not convinced that the new view would be a bad view. With the porches on the present building fixed, I think it would be a rather attractive building . MS . JOHNSON: When you look down, the gorge though (unintelligible) walking across the College Avenue bridge - you look down there and it is just . . . SECRETARY HOARD: Wait until the Performing Arts Center is built . 69 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 70 MS , FARRELL : Yes, I don' t see it as a bad thing - I think it is a interesting building . MS . JOHNSON: (unintelligible) see a movie of the gorge . I mean whey► you look down the gorge it is all - even this time of year - except for that one building, it just . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well , if' I might, let ' s again tie this back to the particular conditions that we are supposed to be examining here . MR . SCHWAB : Condition► is that it is too close to the back lot . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well one of them is that, certainly, deficient rear yard setback . But another is minimum lot size and the other is the variance from the parking setbacks . Could we address those as well? MS . FARRELL : Okay, the parking I think is actually an improvement, it (unintelligible) required parking . I realize that two of those spaces are in the front but five of them were before - it eliminates the present parking deficiency . The lot coverage I see as a problem. Meeting the rear yard setback., I ' m j not sure that ' s valid when there is not a direct neighbor in the back . That ' s my discussion . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well that ' s moving along in the right direction . MR . BOOTH: I guess part of my concern is that while technically this would meet the off-street parking requirements, that is a terribly difficult street to negotiate with an automobile and with additional traffic in the area, I really wonder if this 70 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 71 meets the spirit of the parking requirements . SECRETARY HOARD: This is probably the only one on the whole street that does . . . MR . BOOTH: I understand that., I ' m just commenting on what is already a very difficult situation . Both times that I have been in there to look: at this project, it has been very difficult to move through there . And then you' ve got to come out and go left up that hill . SECRETARY HOARD: No, you have to go down, it is one way . MR . BOOTH: I ' m sorry, down the street . SECRETARY HOARD , You' ve par-ked by a fire hydrant and you ' ve gone the wrong way. . . MR . BOOTH: I ' m obviously in trouble . MS . FARRELL . I think it ' s a problem to judge the requirement of parking for this pr-oper-ty by what ' s happening on the street . If this: pr-oper-ty is providing the necessary parking, which it is not providing now, and is actually increasing on-street parking by eliminating curb cuts, because there is a bad situation on the street, I ' m not sure we should be - I think we should be judging everything by the same rules and those rules are the required parking would be being met . MS . JOHNSON: Well it is also the impact on the neighborhood of increased units, which will mean . . . MS . FARRELL : Well, but the parking is being increased to meet the needs of those units, officially . Now, whether it would or not and whether the Zoning Ordinance provides for needed parking i 71 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 72 by the rules it has is another question . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Stewart? Anything specifically with respect to the minimum lot size requirements and, we' ve already addressed to some degree, the deficient rear yard setback, anything with respect to the parking? MR . SCHWAB : Well I think: I agree with Tracy that the parking seems to be a net improvement here . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Arid you are not particularly bothered by the minimum lot size requirements? MS . SCHWAB : I don ' t know how to judge that here any differently than anywhere else in town . I know this is, I mean, I guess I am somewhat bothered by that - eleven hundred sixty-eight square feet, is that substantial? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That is a good question . Is eleven hundred sixty-eight square feet substantial? MS . FARRELL : What percentage is it deficient . . . MR . BOOTH: Well over ten percent obviously . MS . FARRELL : It ' s over ten percent? MR . BOOTH : Well over ten percent . MS . FARRELL : Well over . Is it twenty percent? Fifteen percent? Compared to the other properties in the area, I think that is also important to think about but . . . MS . JOHNSON: Don' t we have to - when we decide on something like rear yard setback. - don' t we have to consider, what I would consider crucial considerations., I ' d like to hear from someone who knows something about building on the edge of a gorge . I 72 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 73 mean, obviously there is a building there now, that is still there . SECRETARY HOARD ' That is part of the building permit process . We would have to have engineer ' s - soil engineer ' s reports - the whole thing - to make sure this isn' t going to fall into the gorge . MR . BOOTH: About twelve percent deficient obviously . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So you are saying that it really is a miminal amount or . . . . MS . FARRELL : Well I ' m not sure . Twelve percent doesn ' t seem extraordinary . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: A modest amount? MS . FARRELL : Modest, that would be a good word . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m getting closer to a motion I feel . 73 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 74 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1600B - 120 HIGHLAND PLACE MS . FARRELL . I move that the Board grant the area variance and a variance from the parking setbacks as requested in appeal number 1600 . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) The proposed changes provide required parking and eliminate a previous parking deficiency . 2) The unique nature of the rear yard makes meeting the rear yard requirement a practical difficulty . 3) A twelve percent deficiency in lot coverage appears to be a modest deficiency . 4) The Board agrees with the issuance of a negative declaration under the State Environmental Quality Review Act . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further discussion? MR . BOOTH : Let me say something . I ' m going to vote against the motion because I think it is a substantial variance in a very difficult situation, that is, the topography and so on makes it a very difficult situation and I think the lot size is important . But I would suggest that you add to the motion, assuming that it may pass, a finding that we agree with the issuance of negative declaration under the State Environmental Quality Review Act . This is the first variance since I ' ve been on the Board that there has been one of these Environmental Reviews . If we grant the variance we are taking an action, that is an action under the State Environmental Review Act and we would need to say that we - 74 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 75 in my opinion we would need to say that we agree with the issuance of a negative declaration► . The negative declaration means that an Environmental Impact Statement will not be done, which seems to me to be a proper inclusion, and I think the motion should say that . SECRETARY HOARD: Shouldn' t that be a separate issue? MR . BOOTH: It could be but assuming that this may be granted, I mean► - we could make it a separate issue but I don ' t see any reason to, it seems to me it ' s proper to support the issuance of the negative declaration . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: We will make that motion accepted, the amendment . MS . FARRELL : Could you explain that to me? MR. BOOTH: There is a state law something called the Environmen- tal - State Environmental Quality Review Act, that requires State and Local Agencies, of which we are one, to do environmental re- views - and in cases where a project will have a significant en- vironmental impact, to do environmental impact statements on their actions . The City has its own ordinance under the State Statute - that ' s the reason we had an environmental quality re- view done in this particular ease . Someone triggered the need to s do that review, I don' t know who did that, in city government . But we are the ones taking official action and so we are the ones officially responsible, as I read the city code - I had Stumbar send me the Ordinance . We are the ones that will be taking the action and therefore I think we would have to be the ones to 75 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 76 agree with the decision not to do an environmental impact state- ment . I happen to think not doing an environmental impact state- ment, in this case is the correct decision, there are impacts, but I don' t think: they are of the kind that would require an en- vironmental impact statement . You' ll notice this is called an environmental assessment - not an environmental impact statement - that ' s: a preliminary kind of procedure . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay? If we could have the vote . This is APPEAL NUMBER 1600B . VOTE : 1 YES; 4 NO; 1 ABSENT DENIED MR . BOOTH: I will make a motion to the contrary then . I move the Board deny the area variance and a variance from the parking setbacks as requested in appeal number 1600 . MS . JOHNSON: I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) Given the very difficult topographical layout of the lot, the minimum lot size deficiency is significant . 2) The property owner already has a reasonable and valuable use of the property currently in existence . 3) There are legitimate concerns about the aesthectic impact of this building on Cascadilla Gorge . VOTE ON #1600C 4 YES; 1 NO; 1 ABSENT DENIED 76 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 77 SECRETARY HOARD: The next appeal is APPEAL NO . 1604 1311 EAST STATE STREET Appeal of M. D . and G . D . L . Morris for an area variance for deficient lot width and deficient setbacks for the front yard and both sideyards under Section 30 . 25, Columns 7, 11, 12, and 13 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the addi- tion of a small apartment within the existing single-family dwelling at 1311 East State Street . The property is located in an Rlb (Residential, single-family) Use District in which the proposed apartment is an approved use; however under Section 30 . 57 of the Zoning Ordinance the applicants must obtain area var- iances for the listed deficiencies before a building permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the new apartment . MR . MORRIS : Good evening . I am Gregory Morris, my father is out of town on business but I have both his proxy and his blessing to appear in his behalf . I have here a map of the lot which will outline its particular ramifications . The house is built on a pan handle and when it was built it and all the other houses of i the immediate post war era were all in accordance with the build- ing codes of the times . The subsequent codes have placed the house in violation but it seems rather obvious that there is not a lot we can do about that . What we are trying to do with this apartment is to take a portion of unfinished basement space and make positive use of it . Some of the benefits to which we would derive from making this operation are - I should rather say, some of the things that might be in your minds as to what the diffi- culties would be, is how this would affect the value of the house . In fact, I have spoke to Realtor Connie Lewis., who is the one who sold us the house, and she said that indeed just right 77 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 78 off the top of her head that such ars apartment as I described to her, and is described in your appeals, would increase the value of the house by about $20, 000 . 00 book: value . There would be - I don' t have any slides or any photographs of what the exterior changes of the house because there will be none . The alterations will all be interior- . As a matter of fact, this operation would be a - the second phase of a two-part improvement of the house that we are doing . We have owned the house since September -that ' s why the map says John C1 . Rappalee - it is formerly . The house, when bought, was described by a friend of my fathers, Mr . John Matyas - excuse me, Robert Matyas - who I believe is a pre- vious member of this Board, as pregnant with possibilities and what we are trying to do is realize those possibilities . we are not subdividing into little rabbit warrens for student housing, as many of the other neighborhoods around Ithaca have been deter- iorated by, this operation doesn' t change the population density 1 t 1tiiir: ;y::;i:!I1t11lN1UI(it71 'i' lTit`% !1liSitf'+s. t lhl�fTit 711=y ?l aii 7ni ni, ;9 l 7i t t 11$: to?f'c"t he'.Ir Uq,,u l d.. It is a single, or at most., couple, dwelling space by dimension definitions, so we are not talking about making it a multiple- family dwelling, we are just talking about putting positive use to some currently unfinished area of the basement . It wouldn ' t alter or charge the character of the neighborhood, indeed by im- proving the value of the house and improving the family situation in the house., as is mentioned in the appeal, it would, we be- lieve, in fact improve the value of the neighborhood . The laws as they are stated, are clear- in their- intent as to keep people 78 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 79 from piling houses one on top of the other and to keep reasonable living space between dwellings , Well as you can see, there is incredibly ample living space well out to the back - there are lawns and woods and there is parking for what the engineer esti- mated for at least a dozen cars and there is also a basketball court and all sorts of other- exciting things - there is a stream and woods and basically the house is where it is and short of ,jacking it up, which is rather impractical there is not a lot we can do about that . What we would like to do is improve this house., improve the neighborhood as a part of a general project or ongoing project of improving the entire house . And we ' ve got it, there is lots of room in it but it was in rather disrepair and we are trying to improve the house, improve the neighborhood and we realize that the lot dimensions cannot be changed but we offer in exchange the fact that there is all this land elsewhere on the owner ' s property -so that sort of negates the confinement of the house . MR , BOOTH : Can I ask you a question? MR . MORRIS : Please . MR , BOOTH: As I read the map, most of your property is in the Town of Ithaca and not the City of Ithaca . MR . MORRIS : That is correct . That is an approximate City line based on when the survey was drone, but that is about correct, yes . MR . BOOTH: I don' t read the density requirements of the Ordinance as applying to lands outside the City . Can you tell me 79 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 80 what the dimensions are of the portion of your lot that is inside the City? MR . MORRIS : Well I don' t have that calculated now . I assume it could tie done from the map dimensions . The - a rough estimate looks like . . . . MR . BOOTH: Tom, do you have any idea? Interesting questions that we have confronted before . Michael have we confronted that question? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN' Not within my memory . SECRETARY HOARD : Easily meets the requirement of . . . MR . BOOTH: That ' s what I would guess . SECRETARY HOARD: Just this little narrow part here is seven thousand three hundred and eight - and they would be required to have seventy five hundred so all this down here is MR . BOOTH: Is all of this yours too - behind? MR . MORRIS : Everything . . . r MR . BOOTH : Other than those two lots? MR . MORRIS : The two shoulder lots., as they appear if you hold the . . MR . BOOTH: Edward and Janet Conley . . . MR . MORRIS : And Eleanor Angers . . yes, all the rest of it in the large MR . BOOTH: Including this - what I mean by "this" is the area . . MR . MORRIS , Yes this area is in the City of Ithaca and is ours, yes . MR, BOOTH: It is my guess that it well fits it . 80 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 81 MR . MORRIS : Basically what it is, there is the room there, the house was ,just crammed into one corner, now why it, was built that way, you would have to ask the people who built it . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Stewart? MR . SCHWAB : No . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So, succinctly then your practical difficulty is . . MR . MORRIS : We would like to improve the house and by the law which - well, the Code., which was read, we cannot go about ob- taining a building permit until we resolve the problem of the house being in variation of side lot, and front lot deficiencies and were you to grant an allowance or variance based on the addi- tional room here and also based on what we intend to do with it, then we could proceed to make our improvements . It is just a matter of semantics . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank: you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of granting this variance? [no one] Is there anyone out there who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of this variance? Yes . MR . CONLEY : My name is Edward J . Conley and I live at 1300 East State Street, next door neighbor of the applicant . The applicant has been a fire neighbor., bought the house last summer, moved in last fall and now is improving the property and in talking with my neighbors., all who received a letter, we are not convinced that adding an apartment improves the value of the neighborhood . I don' t doubt but what it would improve the value of his home and 81 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 82 we ar-e all concerned . All of the houses, 1305, 7 and 9, my house, on our side of the street are all single-family homes and always have been . The house on the other side, 1313 on the other side of him is a multiple but it has been ever since we bought the house, I ' ve lived there twenty-two years and it had been con- verted before that . All of the houses on the other side of the street ar-e all single family homes . John Ewanicki ' s, Floyd Cronk ' s ., I think: there is one above that that might have an apartment in it, I ' m not sure . And I know that when the zoning was changed back: in ' 77, when we saw that we were R1, and then it was Rlb, and when asking about what is an Rlb, in fact I would ask: for- that definition, what is the difference between R1 and Rlb? MR . BOOTH: Basically it relates to the amount of square footage required for one family versus two family houses . The square footage in la ar-e considerably - the required square footages are consider-ably larger . For a single family dwelling it is ten thousand square feet, for a two-family dwelling it is fifteen thousand Square feet . Whereas the corresponding figures in 1B ar-e six thousand and seventy-five hundred . MR . CONLEY : Well, I ' m riot so concerned about the amount of the land area - the use of - in R1 - R1 is single family . . . MR . BOOTH: It also allows two family . MR . CONLEY : In R1? MR . BOOTH : Yes . MR . CONLEY : In Rlb - what is the difference between R1 and Rlb 82 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 83 then? MR . BOOTH : It says right here. Here are the allowed uses . MR . CONLEY ' Okay . And we were R1 prior to that change in 1977 . MR . BOOTH: An R1 allows two-family dwellings . And the basic difference is in what you see here - the square footage requirements . Two-family dwellings are allowed in R1 . MR . CONLEY : Well we are concerned, the neighbors are concerned because of the Morris property is not the only property that has lot deficiencies . We all are on basically small lots, for the area . In fact that house was built on a small lot - the addi- tional land that is out in the Town of Ithaca was bought long after that house was built . It was bought at that time, to pro- tect them from construction of houses in behind them - a road being built up through the Towr, of Ithaca so the neighbors got together and bought the property and divided it up and bought the property so that they could protect their single family neighbor- hood . And all the neighbors that I talked to, we didn ' t sign a petition., didn' t get letters and they didn' t all parade in here but we agreed that I would be a spokesman and come down, express their concerns to the Board that it is a single family neighbor- hood, we bought our houses because it was, we all raised our fam- ilies there, and we would like to retain it as a single family neighborhood and we feel that the value of the homes and the neighborhood is the fact that it ' s single family in nature . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions' Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of 83 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 84 this variance? All right, we' ll move into deliberations . 84 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 85 DELIBERATIONS OF THE BOARD - APPEAL NO . 1604 MR . BOOTH: Well the zoning is very clear - it allows two family dwellings . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The use is permitted . MR . BOOTH : I certainly hear the concern and I can recognize that it is a legitimate one in a sense but the Zoning Ordinance is pretty clear . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN. Okay, then the question becomes, are the variances - the variance necessary for sufficient lot width and deficient setbacks - and both side yards - are those deficiencies substantial enough? Or are they not significant, are they modest? MS . FARRELL . Well, certainly the outside of the building wouldn' t be changed by adding the apartment . This does seem to be an ideal candidate for Accessory Apartment - that ' s a different thing - we are not considering that right now . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That is a different thing . Well it is already assumed that the use is permitted, it ' s a question as to whether the deficiencies are . . . MR . SCHWAB : The only extra deficiency caused by an apartment is the one - the lot width . SECRETARY HOARD : That ' s right . MR . SCHWAB : Cause the existing house already violates the other three deficiency use and with no extra requirements - in other words, for front yard and side yard and other side yard for an apartment . Just the lot . . . 85 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 86 MR . BOOTH : It creates a deficiency by two feet as I read that, is that right Stewart? MR . SCHWAB : That ' s right . A two foot deficiency is the only extra deficiency caused by an apartment . It starts to sound minor - modest . Of course we are allowed to consider the whole thing aren ' t we - all the deficiencies . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right . No one particularly cares about what the neighbors think? Or is the evidence submitted by the neighbors sufficient to be considered? MS . FARRELL : Well we ' ve heard from one neighbor, who was speaking for other neighbor's but I think, unless we ' ve had letters or petitions or something like that, I think we should consider the testimony by one neighbor . MR . SCHWAB : I think it ' s fair to say that neighbors are concerned, I mean . . . MS . FARRELL : Well they may be but I really hesitate to say that unless I ' m seeing some more evidence, either brought in, like people writing or coming in . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I bring that out because in the past, it has been our policy only to consider those things that are in front of us - kind of in black or white - or at least, as Tracy says, to see something more substantial from the neighbors rather than essentially not heresy but merely unsubstantiated testimony . MS . FARRELL : Not that they don' t feel that way, I mean . . . they probably do but I just . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: They may . 86 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 87 MR . BOOTH : But I think, whatever the numbers of people are that have spoken against it, I think: we have a fair characterization of what the evidence would be had those other people been here . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: All I wanted to do was to air the various points . Are we coming any closer to a motion? MR . BOOTH : Tom there is a house on the other side of this that has an apartment in it, or several? SECRETARY HOARD : There is a house down in the Town of Ithaca . MR . BOOTH : Not along State Street? MS . FARRELL : Is it over the border into the Town? SECRETARY HOARD : I think it is in the Town . MR . BOOTH : I see . Further out State Street . Well I will make a motion . 87 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 88 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1604 1311 EAST STATE STREET The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of M . D . Morris and Gregory D . L . Morris for an area variance to permit the addition of a small apartment within the existing single-family dwelling at 1311 East State Street . The decision of the Board was as follows : MR . BOOTH: I move that the Board grant the area variance requested in Appeal Number 1604 with the condition that the apartment created be below the threshold allowed in the Zoning Ordinance or 50% . MS . FARRELL : I second the motion . FINDINGS OF FACT : 13 The proposed use is consistent with the Zoning Ordinance . 2) The proposed use has ample off-street parking to meet the proposed use , 3) with one exception the proposed use will not increase any existing deficiencies . 43 The one increased deficiency is in the area of lot width - it amounts to two ( 2 ' ) feet . This is a minor variance under these circumstances . 5) While there is evidence of opposition from neighbors, that ' evidence doesn' t appear to overcome the strong case made for granting a variance . 6) It would be very difficult for the owner to have to move the exi=sting =structure in a way that would comply with the a various setback and lot width requirements . 88 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 90 SECRETARY HOARD : The next appeal is appeal no . 1605 - 717-717 . 5 WEST COURT STREET : Appeal of the Tompkins County Housing Task Force for an area variance for deficient off-street parking, deficient lot width, and deficient setback for one sideyard under Section 30 . 25, Columns 4, 7 and 12 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the conversion of the front building on the property at 717-717 . 5 West Court Street from a two-unit residence to a shelter for up to nine persons . The property is located in a B-4 (business ) Use District in which the proposed use is permitted; however under Sections 30 . 49 and 30 . 47 of the Zoning Ordinance the applicant must obtain area variances for the listed deficiencies before a building permit or Certificate of Occupancy can be issued for the proposed conversion . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Beginning with identification . MS . JONES : My name is Anne Jones, I ' m chairman of the Housing Task Force . We are looking to purchase a piece of property on West State Street (sic ) which now consists of two buildings, three apartments . We would like to convert the main front facil- ity from two apartments into a single family unit for emergency shelter purposes and to retain., for the time being at least, an apartment in the rear building . We are very aware of the fact that we must apply for this variance, the piece of land isn ' t wide enough and the side yard is inadequate . We have -those are practical difficulties and then we have to add to that the fact that we have a shared driveway . We think that we can deal very well with the parking in terms of the back facility can have four spaces underneath the building and we get the fourth space by tearing out the very end wall which we are told is fairly decre- pit and is not a supporting piece so that we can get four cars in 90 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 91 there . We are looking for a shelter for nine persons, there is always somebody on in the shelter- - there is twenty-four hour staffing . That is a way of making sure that people in the shel- ter- do not park: in the shared driveway . We would like to be good neighbors, we have been through the neighborhood, if any of you are interested in the comments from the neighbors, all of those within the two hundred feet t200 ' i . The main concern seems to be some of the late evening altercations over joint parking on a joint driveway . We think: that with the twenty-four hour staffing we think that with our under cover parking spaces, plus the fact that we can, to the side of our neighbor ' s garage, store another car, plus the fact that we have another hundred feet in the back yard, that we should be able to arrange for any parking . I un- derstand how many spaces in the sense that we are required to have, I would point out that somewhere in the neighborhood of five percent plus of our clients have cars and the staff does not live on the property . I haven' t been able . . . . MS . FARRELL : You are required to have five spaces and you have four spaces now? MS . JONES : We can have four- spaces under cover . We can have an additional space - yes, you all have the maps - to the side of our neighbor ' s garage and into the back yard, if you will . MR . BOOTH : So you are saying it is possible to have the fifth space? MS . JONES : Absolutely . There. is no - we understand the parking requirements . i 91 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 92 MS . FARRELL : I just wonder why it was done this way on the worksheet Tom? SECRETARY HOARD : The worksheet was prepared pretty early in the . . . MS . FARRELL : Okay, so there has been a change since then . SECRETARY HOARD : A change from the earlier discussion . MR . SCHWAB : So you are saying you meet the parking requirements of five places? MS . JONES : By cleaning out the current owner ' s trash, out of the back facility, and it is a shambles, which is one of the reasons why we say that the property can only go up - there can be -there are three bays currently and we intend to tear out the wall - the end wall of the third bay and by parking, we can get four cars within that . There is additional space beyond the shared driveway which can house an additional car and if we want to have more cars in the back yard we car► c.•ertainly have them. The one thing, you know, we car► control with our staff, we can control it with the spaces, the one thing that we really cannot do, is we cannot make the property any wider . I mean, I just haven ' t been able to think of a good way to do it . And so, you know, that is a practical difficulty . It certainly is of concern to the people with whom we share the driveway, it has to be . MR . BOOTH : You are saying your current experience is such that most of the clients do not come with cars? MS . JONES : Roughly five percent of our clients have vehicles . And essentially that is one of the reasons why we would like to 92 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 RAGE : 93 remain downtown, on the bus line, on the - most of them have to be able to use either their feet or public transportation . The only other . . . MR . SCHWAB : Who are your immediate neighbors - who is this neighbor that you are sharing the driveway with? MS . JONES : Are you looking for the name of the neighbor? MR . SCHWAB : Right . MS . JONES : The name of the neighbor is Robinson . MR . SCHWAB : Melvin and Linda Robinson? MS . JONES : That is correct . MR . SCHWAB : Okay . MR . BOOTH : And they have indicated their support, is that correct? MS . JONES : I have talked - they both worked, they have not been home when I - what I call "door knocking" - I have spoken with Mrs . Robinson, she is concerned about having a neighbor who would not pay any attention to her rights to use her driveway and I think she has every right to be concerned . MR . BOOTH : But in terms of the use itself, you haven ' t - this says "supportive of the variance and shelter relocation" . . , that is your understanding? MS . JONES : That is correct . We have had almost nothing in the way of objection to the allowed, but changed, use . MR. BOOTH : Thank you . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? I have just one . What is the intended length of stay, so to speak, I ' m wondering - I ' ll , 93 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 94 let you know where I ' m going and then we can come back to that . I ' m wondering if it would be to our advantage - the City' s advan- tage - to permit, if we were to grant the variance, to specifi- cally your use of the building;, subject to whenever you no long- er have it, being almost reverting to the present scenerio - do you have any problems with that? My thought is that it is large- ly residential area and though it is a permitted use within the area, the character of the neighborhood would be effectively -could be at some point in the future, were you to dispose of the property, could be effectively changed by someone else getting it -perhaps not taking care of it in the same way . MS . JONES : (CHANGED TAPE HERE; SOME OF THE CONVERSATION MISSED) use, that is a particular kind of population, is that your question? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Precisely . MS . JONES : Okay . As you know, this particular program is administered by the Red Cross . The Housing Task Force technically is not a direct service organization - we have a contract - we pay them to do it . Is that - if you are asking me -maybe ten years from now there won' t be any need for an emergency shelter - CHAIRMAN TOMLAN' That ' s what I ' m saying, or perhaps you will move to some other location . Disposal of the property from our point of view - the question in my mind is, it may mean that someone else will pick up the property and do something else with it and I ' m just wondering if you weren' t on safer ground by 94 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 95 essentially conditioning the proposed granting of the variance, to the Red Cross, to the Tompkins County Housing Task Force . Do you see any questions about that? MS . JONES : Not really . Certain of the houses on that particular street are single family . Perhaps a single family would buy that - the piece out in back could be considered income for a single family in the front . I think there are things which are going to be done to the building inside which should improve it and I think there are things that are going to be done to the outside which should improve it and I think: that it ' s current use as a shelter managed in the way that we expect it to be managed, real- ly tries to act in accordance with the Ordinance . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the granting of the variance? Come forward . MS . CLAVEL : My name is Anne C:lavel, I ' m an attorney who is work- ing with the Task Force in purchase of this property . I guess when I was hearing you talk:., ask Anne about the limitations on the extent of the variance, I am concerned . In the first place, the Board is considering the possibility of turning the property over to the Red Cross after we' ve purchased it and renovated it so that the Housing Task: Force, which will now be the owner, can be released from the duty of monitoring this house and go on and do something else . The purpose of the house is for a residence for the homeless - or a shelter for the homeless . The City of Ithaca is giving us $30, 000 . 00 toward purchase of the house . The i 95 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 96 Gannatt Foundation is giving us I think, $80, 000 . 00 toward pur- chase of the house and the renovation of it . And the purpose of both of these grants is for shelter for the homeless . I guess I would be concerned if you were to limit the variance so that if we, say, within the next six months or a year, turn it over to the Red Cross, they have to go through this procedure again . I mean, we would only turn it over to be used as a shelter for the homeless - I mean, that ' s the emergency shelter - is the purpose of the use of it . But . . . MR . BOOTH : What about if we limited it to that? MS . CLAVEL : I beg your pardon? MR . BOOTH : What if we conditioned the variance on being granted for the purpose of being a home for homeless people? MS . CLAVEL : Well I suppose that would be all right . But I was thinking, for instance, suppose somebody wanted to be - to use it in some future time, for a boarding house, which it would certainly - as it is now, it is equivalent to a boarding house, I mean at we propose the use of it, it is equivalent - it ' s a transient use so it is equivalent to a boarding house . MR . BOOTH : There is potentially more closely managed, with fewer cars . . . MS . CLAVEL : Yes - well no, the car amount would be the same no matter who was in it . I suppose if a one family house had it, there would be fewer cars . But I don' t think we would object so much if you limited it to shelter- but my sense is that nobody is going to do any outside construction on this building and anytime 96 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 97 anybody comes back to you., it ' s going to be difficult for you not to grant a variance but, you know., if you want to have some con- trol over how it ' s used and make sure that the neighbors are up- set, I don' t think that we would have an objection but at this point, I certainly wouldn' t think that it would be wise to limit it to just to the Task: Force or just to the Red Cross, because, you know, they may find some agency which wants to manage the shelter and continue it as a shelter for the homeless, you know, emergency shelter . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Thank. you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the granting of the variance? Please come forward? MS . SILVERMAN: My name is Diedre Silverman, I ' m the Coordinator of the emergency shelter . One thing that I think is important for you to understand, especially in terms of future use of the building is that what we will be doing to the building is, in a sense, converting it back into a single family residence . As it is now the staircase between the first floor apartment and the second floor apartment has been closed off and the entrances are in the rear - rather unstable staircases . What we will be doing is reopening the front entrance and reopening the internal stair- case so that if it were not to continue to be used as an emergen- cy shelter, it would at that point be much more suitable for a one family house than for a two family house . In connection with that, the two buildings, as they are now occupied, have a total of eleven people . The average occupancy with us using them will i 97 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 98 be seven or eight people, so what we are actually doing is de- creasing the density of that property . Okay? MR . BOOTH : You spoke in terms of nine people . MS , SILVERMAN: That is a maximum in the shelter, in the front building, yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? MS . FARRELL : I have one question . When you are talking about renting the apartment in the back, you are talking about renting it just to long-term tenants at this point? MS . SILVERMAN: We are talking about renting in, what is called, transitional housing . Some of our, clients are not quite ready to move into the regular housing market, they need a little more time and a little supervision., but longer than we can provide in the emergency shelter . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Stewart? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the granting of the variance? Yes . Anyone who would like to speak in opposition? MR . ROBINSON: I ' m Melvin Robinson, owner of the property next door . I don' t have any qualms or, quarrels with the people that are buying the home, as far as that goes, maybe it will improve some of the land next door but the driveway is a problem. What we have, if you picture this area of this table as the parking area, I am the driveway, when you come in, straight down that driveway, seventy-five percent of that land belongs to me . On the opposite side you have maybe a twelve foot area that goes against the house, which they can park in , As of now, you can 98 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 99 line two cars in line with no trouble, or go further into the yard but what ' s going to happen if they want to use those gar- ages, they are going to be in to where I park my pickup truck or my wife ' s car, because I have a three-quarter ton truck and my wife has a car and I also have a camper in the same area . And before long it will be worse yet because I ' m going to be purchas- ing a twenty-one foot motor home and they definitely won ' t get into those garages . MS . FARRELL : I ' m confused . You share a driveway . You are saying it is your driveway? MR . ROBINSON: Well, what it is, the driveway is divided right directly down the middle . MS .•• FARRELL : Okay, so each of you owns half the driveway? MR . ROBINSON: That ' s right . MS . FARRELL : Then what happens? MR . ROBINSON: Okay, when you get to the very back of where the parking is, it widens out . In the middle of the driveway to the right side of it, most of that land belongs to me, off to the left is a narrow strip of land about twelve foot wide, which goes deep, which is available for their parking . So if I pull directly into the driveway - which I ' m still on my land, even though it is divided down the middle - they don ' t have any room to swing to go into those garages . MS . FARRELL: I see . MR . ROBINSON' And I ' ve been in that home for forty years now, because my father owned it first, and the driveway is very soft . 99 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 100 It takes me at least two ton of stone every spring to maintain the driveway because if you start turning around in it, it chews it all to pieces - it is very soft . A couple of feet down you ' ve got water, so the driveway doesn' t take much turning and cutting back and forth . But if they went further out in the yard possi- bly they could use that - it is soft out there though, but they could go further back . MS . FARRELL : So back., behind where the driveway - straight back behind the garage . . . MR . ROBINSON: Right . If they could go through there but those garages, they couldn ' t definitely use . Because over the years we have parked there . My father has and they have used those gar- ages and they can ' t get out . And I have the kind of job - I work for Morse-Emerson, I ' m on twenty-four hour call - other than my normal shift, I ' ve got to go in and out of that driveway all hours of the night - I ' m a member of the Fire Department, and I go to a lot of motor vehicle accidents and I don ' t have time - in other words, I have ter, minutes either way, either for a fire call or to get to Morse Chain if a gas break or whatever - so I don ' t have time to look for somebody if they ' ve got the driveway blocked off or in their garage and I ' m trying to get a couple minutes sleep for the night, see., before I have to go back again . But you just can' t use those garages, the way it is set up now . MS . FARRELL : Because when they swing to get in the garage, they would be hitting your vehicles which are parked on your property? MR , ROBINSON: That is correct . And the driveway would be so 100 i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 101 badly torn up., it is just too much money to black top it, but it is just easier for me to load a ton of stone in my pickup and I groom it down every year, and I keep it in nice shape, see? But every year - it has to be done because those stone sink right out of shape so I ' ll let you know the driveway doesn' t hold very long -for turning around in it . MR . BOOTH : Will it hold your twenty-one foot motor home? MR . ROBINSON: Right . And another thing that concerns me, I un- derstand they are going to have supervision . In the further back part of the yard I have a sixteen by thirty-two swimming pool, it is above ground . But with children around and with those stones they have a temptation to throw stories into the pool . I haven ' t had any trouble with the neighbors now because ninety percent of the people that live around there, I ' ve known their children - and they are grandparents, see, and they know me and so forth, and we get over the problem of throwing stones into the pool, but I feel if a child is coming through for a couple of days and he sees these stones, over they go in that large volume of water, which, you know, I think if they are - they ' ve got to be super- vised though, because they will do it, believe me . MS . FARRELL : I have a question . If they agree to fix the driveway - solidify the driveway, or whatever - blacktop the driveway, would that make a - and then would there be enough room to get around to the back: and parking places were made in that back part . . . MR . ROBINSON: Yes they could go straight back further, yes . 101 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 102 MS . JOHNSON: And how much room would there be for how many parking places back there? MR . ROBINSOW Oh God, you could put ten or twelve cars back there . MS . JOHNSON: But you can' t get through there right now? MR . ROBINSON: No, you wouldn' t be able to go into those garages . MS . FARRELL : You could still go on ( unintelligible) MR . ROBINSON: Right, you could still go straight back, though . MR . BOOTH : Could they alter the garages so you could go straight back and then come back, in the back end? MR . ROBINSON: I don' t believe so, no . You' d have to redo the house . You see everything - every one of those three garages is facing directly onto my property, which - I pull up at this matter here, say, so if they backed up, you only have about twelve feet or so . MS . JOHNSON: I know, I drove in there to check: it out . I could barely get my little Toyota pulled in . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? MR . ROBINSON: It ' s been a problem over the years with - but like I say, most generally the people will stay there for a certain amount of time and after awhile they don ' t turn around in the yard, because I ' m not trying to be mean with them, but it is just soft and it tears it all to pieces and, you know, you can ' t use the garage . MS . JOHNSON: So your main concern is the stability of the driveway and the parking? 102 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 103 MR . ROBINSON' That is correct, right . MS . JOHNSON : It ' s not the use? MR . ROBINSON: No . I don ' t care as long as they are on their side and I can get in and out., there is no problem with me . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition? MR . ROMANOWSKI : I ' m Bob Romanowsk.i, First Ward Alderman and I took my own survey - went all the way around the block and talked with everybody . There is no substantial opposition to the in- tended use . The comments were mostly it will improve the house and improve the neighborhood . There were concerns though . The parking, especially for the Robinson family, the increase in the number of transients to the neighborhood was mentioned a couple of times, they are afraid of maybe the people are transient in nature will come through and perhaps - something bad would hap- pen . And the other was the liability to the children in the fa- 1 cility . Because of this pool and no fencing, who would be liable i if a kid went through fencing and over and fell into the pool? Mrs . Slate on the other side, which is the east side, also ex- pressed delight that they would change the house or have some- thing different than what she has been concerned with or contend- ing with but she would like, if this facility is put in, some sort of reassurance that that fencing between the properties is maintained and kids don' t come over and damage her . . . other than that, I am not in opposition to it, but I think I should - I thought I should bring up what the people mostly had comments on . 103 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 104 Like I say, there is no substantial opposition at all to the in- tended use . The concerns are the parking and the liability and - were foremost in - some of the other neighbors - it is a pretty protective neighborhood and they are long term residents and they sort of look out for each other, so . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions from members of the Board? Thank you Bob . MR. ROMANOWSKI : Thank you very much . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to granting the variance? MR . BOOTH : Would it be wise to have Mrs . Jones come back and speak to the parking? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Would you like to have her? MR . BOOTH : I would like to . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: A member of the Board has asked Mrs . Jones to come forward and address the question of the parking, r particularly with respect to the Robinson ' s property . MRS . JONES : Yes . MR . BOOTH : You heard the concerns . MRS . JONES : They are absolutely legitimate , MR . BOOTH : Can they be dealt with without having to turn across that narrow driveway? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Or picking up the entire garage and moving it back on the lot? What are the options? MS . JONES : Wait a minute . We have to be able to get through that driveway into the back: yard and we have worked on the 104 i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 105 assumption that the extension of the driveway, if you will, was wide enough to take a car through into the yard . Now, am I saying something different from your question? MR . BOOTH : Well, what I hear him saying is that when people back out of those garages . . , MS . FARRELL : Have you tried it? MS . JONES : No I haven ' t because the people in the back apartment now have two cars for that apartment which they park, so that nobody can go nowhere. And I drive a small tin can and I have not been able to get through but I haven' t been down there in order to do it, either . MR . BOOTH : As I understand Mr . Robinson ' s concern, if people use those garages, they will turn out into his driveway . MS . FARRELL : Into more than his driveway, into his yard where he has got his truck parked . MR . BOOTH : That ' s right, into his yard . MS , JONES : I can' t tell you whether that happens or not, I can understand why, if somebody comes down in a big hurry that they could create a problem, I didn' t realize it was going to be so congested in the back yard either . MS . JOHNSON: I drove back there and I could not back up and turn around and get out without backing considerably into his back area where he keeps his cars - in fact I could barely make if out . So I can see there is a real concern . What I was wondering about was, is there room to get - I didn' t see any space to get into this back yard area . Is it possible 105 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 106 MS . JONES : At the side of the garage . There is the swimming pool and the garage . There is an area which - I ' m not sure whether the juxtaposition is a hundred - I ' m saying is a hundred percent correct - but when you go into the driveway, you have to be able to go on through into the back yard. That ' s the only way we can get into that yard . MR . BOOTH: You are talking about back here where this chain link fence shows? MS . JONES : Correct . MR . BOOTH : Could you pave an area back there for five parking spaces? MS . JONES : We could . MR . BOOTH: Would that be acceptable? Doable? MS . JONES : It would be doable - I assume it will be expensive . There is nothing which is undoable . MR . BOOTH : I think. - doable - from the perspective of your organization? MS . JONES : Yes, it will mean something else like the chair lift to get people in on the front porch won' t get put in . You know, there are going to be some trade-offs - there is no point - and if parking is the trade-off for that piece of property for this use then, you know, that ' s the way it is . Our purchase of the property is dependent upon a variance . MS . FARRELL ' How much room is there in this back yard? MS . JONES : Okay . The driveway - we are looking at the same map, okay? The piece of driveway - the depth of the property from the 106 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 107 street all the way to the back. is either one hundred and ninety eight or two hundred and eight and if the length of the shared driveway is one hundred., then we have been calculating that we had roughly another hundred at thirty-seven feet . MS . FARRELL : That ' s a hundred and then it ' s about thirty-seven? MS . JONES : Yes, along the back: fence it ' s thirty-seven and along the street it ' s thirty-seven . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? MS . FARRELL : What about the issue of the driveway being very soft? Would you be willing to pave the driveway? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Or help pave the driveway? MS . JONES : How much does it cost to pave a driveway? SECRETARY HOARD : A lot . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Quite a bit, I would imagine . MS . JONES : I certainly think that we could be very interested in looking in to working out some kind of an arrangement . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s what we are interested in hearing . MS . JONES : Okay , When I have been down there I have usually parked across the street . 1 haven' t always even come into the driveway . So I don' t know about the underfoot quality in the month of April . I can imagine it is awful . MS . FARRELL : My other question is, is there other parking available in the neighborhood, to rent, or anything like that? If this becomes too much of an issue to pave? MS . JONES : If to pave in the back: yard, it is possible that we could make an arrangement with that not for profit corporation 107 . BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 108 who lives across the street . MS . FARRELL : Gadabout? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: We saw them last month . . . MR . BOOTH : I think they are going to be busy MS . FARRELL : At that point they had adequate parking but . . MS . JONES : I have - there has been contact, we have been trying to think of how we could take care of it ourselves so I have no right to commit them. CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Fine . Further questions? Thank you Anne . I wanted to ask the members of the Board if you would like to hear from Mr . Robinson one more time as a form of rebuttal, if you want to think about it that way, it is up to your pleasure . MR . BOOTH : If he wishes to, fine . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: All right, well I think perhaps we have heard enough, one way or the other . There being no further testimony then we would want to go on to deliberating . And I suppose we should probably go back: to the basic questions one more time . i I i 1 108 i i i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 109 DELIBERATIONS OF THE BOARD - APPEAL NO , 1605 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Deficient off-street parking, deficient lot width and deficient set back for one side yard . We ' ve heard a lot of things, how do they relate? MR . SCHWAB : Well I think deficient side yard and lot width, again are not changed by this use because they are not changing the exterior at all and it is not increased by shifting to this use . I think the key is just the parking rather than the other deficiencies . MS . FARRELL : That ' s partly that side yard deficiency (unintelligible) shared driveway and all the other parking problems . MR . SCHWAB : Yes, okay, so maybe they are connected . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: What ' s the practical difficulty? MR . BOOTH : Well the practical difficulty in terms of the measurements is the standard one, difficult to move the building . Sounds to me like we could shape this thing so that there is not a deficiency in parking . MS . FARRELL : It sounds like there is enough room in the back to do that . . . . MR . BOOTH : Well we can condition it, either by doing that or requiring parking some place else? Tom, do you have a sense of whether there are possibilities down there? MS . FARRELL : How about the parking, Tom? SECRETARY HOARD : You mean Gadabout? MR . BOOTH : Gadabout seems to be pretty busy, even what we heard 109 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 110 a month ago . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right . MS . FARRELL : There are some other parking lots there but what about parking in the rear , does that seem uncomfortable? SECRETARY HOARD : I think it ' s possible, sure . MR . BOOTH : Is it undesireable? SECRETARY HOARD' From a Zoning Ordinance standpoint? No . MR . BOOTH : From any other standpoint that you know about? MR . SCHWAB : Well the ease - now to get to the back yard, you' ve got to go beyond the driveway easement, is that true? MS . FARRELL : Yes . MR . SCHWAB : So you' ve got to go on to Mr . Robinson' s property? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right . MS . FARRELL : Yes, continued on to, yes . MR . SCHWAB : Beyond what they now have the right to? MR . BOOTH: Well no . You just move on to their property - twelve feet wide, as I understand it . MR . SCHWAB : Okay , MS . FARRELL : Don ' t you have to continue down there a little bit more to get over there? MS . JOHNSON: That can ' t be twelve feet wide, there - to get into there, cause that is the edge of the ( unintelligible) CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: It occurs to me during the course of this discussion, and I just throw this out for general consideration, that without having cleaned out the trash and really given it a try, we may be leading down a path of hope and not really 110 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 111 substance . MR . BOOTH : You know the trash back at the end of the driveway . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Yes_ I ,just kind of wonder if anyone feels that kind of basic reaction and I wonder if, following that down, continuance isn' t the best resort, though I hate, as much as anyone else to continue any particular case, I am wondering if additional evidence wouldn' t help resolve the question . And further whether the appellant in negotiation with Mr . Robinson couldn ' t come up with I think: , a more acceptable solution rather than leaving us in the position of arbitrator . MS . JOHNSON: I would agree with that . I think it is necessary to see that and really have a better plan before we can understand what . . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m left a bit confused by the specifics because there are so few specifics, of the diagram. And, more particularly on site, I ' m just a little uncertain, given the reservations expressed by Mr . Robinson and his proposed, what shall we say, intensification of that driveway . Intensified use . Am I all wet? MR. BOOTH: Why don ' t you ask the appellant if they would be willing to defer this until next month? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well is that your feeling? MR . BOOTH : I ' m perfectly prepared to approve this thing, subject to the condition that they provide parking in the back yard for five cars . But it might be more reasonable from their point of view to explore that and then come back . I ' m willing to do it 111 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 112 either way . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Stewart? MR . SCHWAB : Of course, we can ask. them, I ' m sure they want to get on with this - buying this land . If we approve this on the condition that they provide five parking places, then what happens? Presumably they negotiate with Mr . Robinson or pave it or rent from Gadabout, or figure out something and we are all done with it? SECRETARY HOARD: Well they would have to meet the conditions of the variance before they get a permit . MR , SCHWAB : Before they could get a permit . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: You see, it puts us in the place of really defining the specifics - the specific conditions of granting the variance and I am perfectly willing to get into that if, in fact, you want to spend the time here now to do it . I ' m just thinking a quicker way might be to ask: them to defer, to come up with a reasonable solution between themselves . . . MR . SCHWAB : Indeed it is only two weeks . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well it is only two weeks . SECRETARY HOARD : We wouldn' t have the minutes by then . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m just asking . . . if it is held over we can consider it at the next meeting which would be two weeks . True? SECRETARY HOARD : You could hold it over . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: With Clinton West we did that, exactly . Is that your sense or are you content to go ahead? MS . JOHNSON: I would be in favor- of that, I ' d rather not decide 112 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 113 whether there is space there for them to do that . I ' d rather have them come up with the alternatives . MR . BOOTH : Why don ' t you ask them if they would be willing to come back (unintelligible) CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I shall . Mrs . Jones, you ' ve heard our discussion . MS . JONES : Some of it, it ' s very difficult to hear in this room . I don ' t know how the Court holds up . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I can ' t imagine either . I imagine they have their speakers on and all the rest . MS . JONES : So I ' ve heard some of the questions . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Our concern is that we are getting into a situation where we are trying to arbitrate between the proposed use and disposition of the property that you are looking at versus Mr . Robinson . We are wondering if you wouldn' t be amenable to deferring until this Board meets again in two weeks . In the meantime, sit down with Mr . Robinson and put together what would amount to be the conditions or, in effect, agreement between the two of you as to the disposition of that right-of-way and more specifically, your parking . The questions revolving your parking on the rear of that lot . Does that seem something you could live with - is two weeks too much to ask or perhaps this effort? MS . JONES : I ' m not going to be here in two weeks . That ' s all right, don' t worry about that . Could I ask, first of all, a question? How did we get to five parking spaces? If there are 113 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 114 six rooms in the front building, I mean, if that is your deci- sion, that ' s fine, I ' m just trying to figure out how we got there . MR . BOOTH : What we have is one for every three transients - one for staff and one for the rental unit, for a total of five . MS . JONES : Okay . The only reason I ask the question is, we have been working on one for each two bedrooms and therefore that would be four parking spaces . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well we have five on our worksheet, according to what is required . MS . JONES : Okay, that ' s fine . That ' s how we got to five . Now what is your request in terms of joint paving of the driveway? Is that a request? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m not sure that that has to be part of the request - no that is not part of our, request . What we are requesting is that you sit down► with Mr . Robinson and resolve the question of access for him and parking for you, that is the five spaces required beyond and outside of the four car garage scenerio . So that you don ' t run into conflicts with his projected use of his property . MS . JONES : Okay . No, I don' t have any problem with sitting down and talking to anybody, okay? I don' t know whether the gentleman from whom we are supposed to be buying the property has a problem or not and I have - we will have - I have to resolve that . Okay? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay . MS . JONES : And it - and we will sit down and talk . 114 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 115 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay, so you are amenable to the deferral for two weeks? MS . JONES : That ' s fine . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Fine . Thank you . 115 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 116 MOTION ON APPEAL NO . 1605 - 717-717 . 5 WEST COURT STREET MR . BOOTH : I move that the Board defer action on appeal number 1605 until the next meeting, April 1, 1985, so that the matter of a joint right-of-way can be worked out with the neighboring property owner . MS . FARRELL : I second the motion . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: All in favor? VOTE : 5 YES; 0 N0; 1 ABSENT MOTION CARRIED 116 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 117 SECRETARY HOARD : The next case is APPEAL NO . 160E - 409-15 THIRD STREET Appeal of Taynton Freight System, Incorporated, for a use variance under Section 30 . 25, Column of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the construc- tion of a gasoline service station and a car wash at 409-15 Third Street (Taynton ' s Truck Termin- al) . The current use as a warehouse of the main building would be continued under the "grand- father rights" . The property is located in a 82a (business) Use District in which neither of the proposed new uses is a permitted use: therefore the appellant must obtain a use variance for the proposed new uses before building permits can be issued for the new construction . MR . MATHIS : My name is Russell P . Mathis, I represent the Tayn- ton Freight System, the owner of the property and Mr . Andree rep- resents the proposed buyer of the property . We ' ve owned the property for a number of years and we have ceased using it as a truck terminal . Back in Octotrer of 1983 . We have no further economic use for it, we have a much larger and more efficient terminal in Horseheads Which we use to give better service to the City of Ithaca . We' ve been trying to sell it for the last year and a half and Mr . Andree has an interest in it and he could probably explain the use that he would put it to . MR . ANDREE : We propose to use the current building pretty much as it is now, storage, warehouse., office space, which., as far as I know, through Tom, we are still allowed to do . It is my under- standing that we are also able to have a convenience store there and a car wash, the way it is toned now. What we are really try- ing to get is the ability to have gasoline in conjunction with those . Going back a little bit, in the past, use has been a 117 R7A MTNOTFS 3/18/84 PAGF : 118 freight terminal to store: freight . a small aroun of offices and the large narkinq lot . What we are honing to he able. to do is leave the building that in there . there . add a aanoline. - a mo- dern fuel ina station . not iust qas numn=. . We' d have ansol ine and diesel fuel - we would like to have. n small convenience store and a czar wash . We' d also like to have a twenty-four hour hankina terminal ; ATM terminal . card ncr.entor . T ' ve gotten nir.tures of .hist exactly the niece of land and the neiahhors that are. around it . There is Grossmann on the other side of the roars . Haver- sticks , there is Tthaca Scran on one side, Tthaca Denartment of Water and Sewer on the other side, Rowlinq Al1ev and Norton F1er.- tris: behind it . You can nRns those around . Tt would he . the inaress and earess would he easy off of Route 1 :t - there is a 1iaht there . there is nienty of room for neonie to null off . ao over to the nronerty where the station would he located . aet their fuel , wash their car . whatr.vc,r they are aoi nq to do . net turned around and qet hack: on . xininq the liaht . Tt is really - from the Buffalo Strer.t and 1 :i intr%rn(nntion - there really isn ' t another station that is directly on 11 until you apt to Drvden . There is a hlock or so off . or if you qo to. Trinhammer you r.an exit and follow the Siann hitt for direr.t access or visibi 1 itv there isn ' t one . MR . ROOTH: Hut how far is the one , the other wav on 13? MR . ANRRFF : The othnr wav on 11? MR . ROOTH : Goinn south MR . ANnRFF : From Ruffalo Strnnt . 118 87A MTNIJTFS 1/18/95 PAGF : 119 MR . BOOTH ' Yes MR . ANDRFF ' Right there on Ruffalo Street , MR . ROOTW No . from this; site: it is; only a few hundred feet . MR . ANnRFF : From the Taynton site going south? MR . ROOTH : Yes , or maybe a half a mile . MR . ANDRFF : Well , Ruffaln Street . Yes , half a mile nrohahly . MS . FARRFI I ' There. is also .the one. that ' =; - it is not on 13 but it is about a hlnnk. awav MR . ANDRFF : Right . that ' s ours . MR . MATHTS ' Whn•n wn wnre oneratinq it as; a truck: terminal there were fuel tanks there and wn. clic! numn gasoline from those tanks at that time . We stonned doing that nrior to the time that we stonned usin+a that as a trunk terminal . There were tanks in the ground . T believe there still in one, tank in the +around there now. not a numn MS . FARRFII : For clarification, the only variance you need is for a +ans Station . The wareho►ise is rarandfathered and the huRinpRRps are allowed . right? , MR . ANDRFF ' Corrnnt . This; in not . ohviously , the colors or the hrand , but this iust giv(:n you some idea of - when T say a modern station, with r.anonied numns : small convenience store - it may hp hard to nic:ture if you are not really aware of what T am talking ahout . 0hviously it will he different colors and a different configuration but that ' s to give you some idea of what we are talking ahnijt CHATRMAN TOMi AN' WoUld you address; more snecifically the nointR 119 R7A MTNUTFS 3/18/85 PAGF : 1 ?n which must he considered by this Board in the arnntina of a use variants - that is strict annlicntion of the Ordinance nrodunom undue hardship and the hardship created is uninue and not shared by all of the nron,rtion in the: immediate vicinity in the use district . Do you mon, could you elaborate to some doaree on that -either one of vn"' MR . MATHTS : T can cover it from our point of view - we ' ve had it on for Rale and it didn' t seem to he sal ,ahle . We have an aarne- ment with Mr . Andrea where he - if he can obtain the variant, - would buy the property from on . We have no further need for it . it is in disrepair at the present time and it seems to me person- ally that it would enhance the =section of town there if it was brought on to date and mod,rni7,d . CHATRMAN TOM1AN: TO Planning Hoard recommended that there he a denial because this was assumedly a buffer ?one intended to screen a heavy commercial area from a residential 7on, . Do you have any comment can that'? MR . MATHTS : T don' t know that much about your town, but it appears that there in further commercial one of the land between us and the residential mention , MR . ANnRFF : WalI there in a station that we are currently runn- ina - T auess it is a block behind - if you ao toward the &reek . , there is the Department of Water and Sower : if You ao the other way, there is the .mink yard, if you go the other way there is Route 13 . Grossmann and HaverRtir.k , mo it would seem to me to h, surrounded by commercial nronerty . Tt would seem that onnosite a 1 ?n R7A MTNUTFS /18I85 PA F : 121 iunk vard . anvthina wotild imnrove what we have there now . CHAIRMAN TCMI AN' Further , i u=;t hec ate=;P T am 1 ook i na ahead at other ohiec.tions . it ' s annarent that the Hancock Plaza nronerty nponle helieve that in fact there i a gas station close. by and there are. a numher of other wiestions associated with the site . it has a history of heina a traffic: ha7ard . . . MR . ANDRFF ' That is why they nut the light there . CHAIRMAN TOMi AN' Do you feel as thouah most of those narticular concerns - T assume vnu have seen tho=se concerns or heard them prior . MR . ANDRFF ' Yes . we were the main concern nettina the liaht there hecause the transnorts were c:omina in loaded with ansoline and turninq and r.ro=isin+a with no liaht . Also, T don' t helieve they are within two hundred feet away . Thev are more than two hundred feet away . Isn ' t that correct? CHAIRMAN TOMiAN' You should know . vnu notified them. MR . ANDRFF ' Thnt ' r; richt . that ' s why T know . CHAIRMAN TOMI AN' Further nue=;tion=; from the Roard? MR . ANi1RFF ' floes that c.omnlaint =stand or is that CHAIRMAN TCMIAN: Well T think that is one of the things we want to consider - it is only a matter - I ' m aivinq you an onnortunity to rphut so that we don' t have an extended hack and forth later on . if at all nossihlP . MR . ANDRFF ' Well the traffic r;ituation at that intersection was , had until then nut the liaht there . It senms to have cleared un considerahly since the light was niit there . As far as another 121 R7A MTNIITFS 1/18/85 PAgF : 1 ?? raas station . you are rigtit , there in another aas station and we operate it and we have: for the ria=;t four years and . . . CHATRMAN TOMI AN: So you are g1oin+a to keen both of them aoinra? MR . ANDRFF : nP.finitn1v not . CHATRMAN TOMI AN: You would r. lose down the: one on Hannor.k Plaza? MR . ANDRFF : T mean. we don' t own it no we would not run it . Somebody else may own it and operate it . We' ve tried anything and everything that we could think: of from cash to credit to cash and credit to different hours., to a twenty-four hour, card opera- ted control system, which we have now, which has improved it but it has absolutely no visibility from 13, they are allowed no signs - equipment is old, it just is not a profitable station . MR . BOOTH : If you can' t put the gas station in, will you operate the other aspects of this facility? MR . ANDREE : Don ' t know, I haven' t decided that yet . The gas definitely ties the whole - ties all of them together - that ' s the draw to get them there and then they can do more than one thing - banking, car wash., milk, beer, soda, cigarettes., whatever they need . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: No further questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else out there who would like to speak in favor of granting the variance? Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of the variance? Deliberation . 122 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 123 DELIBERATIONS OF THE BOARD - APPEAL NO . 1606 MS . FARRELL : There are a lot of uses that that land can be used for in that gone . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That is true . MS . FARRELL : I ' m not convinced that the owner could not get a reasonable return on the property if it was used as it is zoned especially if the warehouse is grandfathered . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I find somewhat mystifying, as I always do, but more particularly this time, the Planning Board' s denial on such -do you have any further information on that? Moved to recommend denial simply on the buffer zone concept . There were no significant or compelling reasons to allow an exception to the Zoning Ordinance in this instance . MR . BOOTH : Well I think that that ' s certainly the specific issue, they are applying for a use variance . As Tracy said, there are a number of other uses and there has been no showing that those other uses are not available . MS . FARRELL : As a matter, of fact, I mean, we are talking about a lot of different uses that are still being proposed to be done there . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well if it is that cut and dried we should have no difficulty with the motion . 123 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 124 DECISION - APPEAL NO . 1606 - 409-15 THIRD STREET The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the request of Mr . Robert Andree for a use variance to permit the construction of a gasoline service station and a car wash at 409-15 Third Street . The decision of the Board was as follows : MS . FARRELL : I move that we deny the use variance requested in appeal number 1606 . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I second the motion . FINDINGS OF FACT: 1 ) The proposed use is not allowed in the zone . 2) The owner has not shown that he couldn ' t receive a reasonable return on the property if it is used for one of the uses for which it is zoned . 3) No demonstration was shown that the hardship created was unique to this property alone . VOTE : 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT DENIED 124 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 125 SECRETARY HOARD : The next appeal is APPEAL NUMBER 1507 - 428 NORTH TITUS AVENUE Appeal of Fred E . Schwartz for a use variance under Section 30 . 25, Column 2, and an area variance for deficient lot area and width, excessive lot coverage, and deficient setbacks for both sideyards and the rear yard under Section 30 . 25, Columns 5., 7, 10, 12, 13, and 14 of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit an addi- tion to the plumbing shop and dwelling unit at 428 North Titus Avenue . The property is loca- ted in an R2a (Residential, one- and two-fami- ly) Use District in which the plumbing shop is not a permitted use, but exists under a previ- ously granted use variance . Under Sections 30 . 47 and 30 . 57, the appellant must therefore obtain a use variance for expansion of the plumbing shop, as well as an area variance to expand the nonconforming building before a building permit can be issued for the proposed expansions . SECRETARY HOARD : I have been told that he is not adding to the plumbing shop so I ' d like to correct that . The appellant does not need a use variance since he is not expanding the plumbing shop . MR . SCHWARTZ : I ' m Fred Schwartz . My father owns the building . I operate Schwartz Plumbing and Heating which is the Plumbing Shop on the first floor . What we are proposing to do is to, if you have seen the drawings is to remove an existing section of the building that is in disrepair and expand the apartment on the second floor as an overhang under which we would have parking, additional parking for two vehicles . So actually, in a sense, we are actually cutting back on the plumbing shop, which takes up the entire first floor, in terms of the building and providing additional parking for that . And expanding the apartment above 125 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 126 to enlarge it and provide it with two bedrooms instead of one bedroom, as it exists currently . So I believe that the variance is necessary primarily, if not only., for the increase in the num- ber of bedrooms and the density . I should point out that we have already obtained a building permit for the demolition aspect of the work and have gone ahead and proceeded with that because that was going to be done regardless of the outcome of the zoning ap- peal and also, regardless_: of the outcome of the zoning appeal, the apartment is going to be renovated, for which we have a buil- ding permit . But, in the course of the planning, it was deter- mined that we could fairly easily and nicely increase the apart- ment to two bedrooms and make better use of the building, so we decided to go ahead and do that . Basically, I guess, the ques- tions I ' m to address are the practical difficulties which, as I understand it, involve the area use and the deficiency in side yards and the inability to relocate the building . The building was built, of course, long before the zoning ordinance was insti- tuted . We feel that the intent of the project is very consistent with the neighborhood . There are one and two family houses sur- rounding it and there are some owner-occupied and some non-owner- occupied surrounding it . I have always found in renting the apartments that it is a desireable location and I frequently have been asked for additional units that were vacant or whether- we had two bedroom rather than one bedroom units, so I feel that it will serve the tenant population . I ' d also like to point out that the project is part of an overall improvement in the build- 126 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 127 ing that we are going to substantially upgrade the exterior ap- pear-ance of the building as it faces the surrounding properties and in general, bring the building more into line with standards of the surrounding neighborhood . I don' t think there is anything else that I can present . I would appreciate the Board asking - bringing up points that I maybe should have brought up and have not . MR . BOOTH : I want to be very clear . You are not proposing to expand the plumbing operation? MR . SCHWARTZ : No . Let me . . MR . BOOTH : That is on the first floor , MR . SCHWARTZ : The first floor . The drawings - the elevation drawing showing the front view may not be absolutely clear as it is drawn . What you are looking at, in the first floor, only extends to the left as far as the line where this doorway begins . This is the extent of the first floor . MR. BOOTH : Existing? MR . SCHWARTZ : Existing - no, the existing first floor, as it -well we' ve already torn it down, it was an addition to the building -we ' ve torn it down but the plumbing shop itself ends right at this line here . Everything under here is carport - this door that you see, is twenty feet farther away from you than the front of the building . On the plan view, you can see that the stairway going down, is at the back; of the building and under- neath the room that is designated study and the left hand portion of the living room is parking . Okay, the little dotted line, it 127 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 128 says exterior line of existing building - okay? - that is the end of the plumbing shop below . Everything to the left of that is parking . We park underneath the study, right . And then there is another parking area which is beyond the building altogether . MR . BOOTH : So you are building the building to the west? MR. SCHWARTZ : That ' s right . MR . BOOTH : And that is where you are going to increase the lot coverage (unintelligible) MR . SCHWARTZ : Well we are not - I don' t think we are increasing the lot coverage . If you go back to the site plan, the first drawing . . . MR . BOOTH : Well, I am confused because this says you are . MR . SCHWARTZ : I think, I ' m not sure about what the written description of the appeal says and what we are actually doing . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s what we have to get clear . MR , SCHWARTZ : Yes, I know. I ' m trying to do this briefly so we can get out of here . On the site plan., the dotted line says line of existing building to be demolished . Okay? That shows the foot print of the building as it is . We are demolishing that back to the solid line, not the cross-hatched part but that heavy solid line . We are demolishing that and then we are building the new construction as an overhang, okay? And so MR . BOOTH: The new construction is within what previously . . . MR . SCHWARTZ : Right, entirely within what previously existed, right . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: So what you ar,e doing is picking up the ground 128 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 129 floor and putting it on the second floor, making it slightly smaller ? MR . SCHWARTZ : That ' s right . MR . BOOTH : And then parking underneath? MR . SCHWARTZ : Parking underneath it, yes, that ' s about what we are doing . And making it two bedroom . MR . BOOTH : I knew there was something I wasn' t understanding on this application . MR . SCHWARTZ : If there it anything else I can say to make it clearer . . . MR . BOOTH : And so your application as you understand it, is that you are not increasing any of the existing deficiencies, is that correct? MR . SCHWARTZ : That ' s right . MR . BOOTH : Setback, lot coverage, MR . SCHWARTZ : That ' s right . I think as I understand it, the only thing that we need is a variance for increasing from one to two bedrooms . MR . BOOTH : Well you don' t need that from us . Mr . Hoard can explain that . MR . SCHWARTZ : Well I ' m not sure what I need then, to be perfectly honest with you . MR . BOOTH : He needs a variance because the building is already nonconforming . And the use is changing . SECRETARY HOARD : Right . He is increasing the residential use of the property . 129 i i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 130 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Let me ask. you - a sneaky question . It will be sneaky only after I tell you the answer . Tell me about the foundation for the support of that second story . Now, I ' ll tell you the answer - what happens or- what is to stop you, aside from the erstwhile surveillance and vigilence of the Building Department from enclosing that first story at some future point? MR . SCHWARTZ : My integrity . But if I did, wouldn ' t I have to apply for a variance? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I ' m only asking a theoretical question . MR . SCHWARTZ : Let me explain it, the whole reason for this pro- cedure was riot to extend the apartment to begin with . That was an after thought . The reason for it was to gain parking because as you - well, let ' s see, you can see from the - one of these drawings - the tax map, the property is divided and the front house is owned separately . We are limited to parking in that rear portion and the whole incentive for embarking on this was to gain parking spaces and it was only in the design process that I realized I could take advantage of the work there and increase that apartment and renovate the rest of the building . So I ' m not really interested in expanding the building . MR . BOOTH : You don ' t see any reason for expanding your plumbing shop? MR . SCHWARTZ : I have no need to expand the plumbing shop . If I need to expand the plumbing shop I ' ll move to a different location because that location is - has other limits other than just (unintelligible) of the building . 130 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 131 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Okay . Any further- questions from members of the Board? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in support of granting this variance? Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of this variance? Moving right along with deliberations . 131 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 132 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1607 - 428 NORTH TITUS AVENUE The Board considered the appeal of Fred Schwartz for a variance to permit an addition of a dwelling unit at 428 North Titus Avenue . The decision of the Board was as follows : MR . BOOTH : I move that the Board grant the area variance requested in appeal number 1507 with the condition that the approval does not include the closing in of the ground floor . MS . FARRELL ' I second the motion . FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) The proposal as outlined in the applicant ' s testimony does not involve the expansion of any existing deficiencies . 2 ) It would be very difficult for the applicant to move the existing building in such a way as to comply with setback requirements . 3 ) The proposed use is compatible with the character of the neighborhood . VOTE : 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT GRANTED W/CONDITION 132 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 133 SECRETARY HOARD : The next case is APPEAL NO . 1508 - 102 WILLARD WAY Appeal of Thomas and Doris Everhart for a use vari- ance under Section 30 .25, Column 2, and an area var- iance for deficient lot size under Section 30 . 25, Column 6, of the Zoning Ordinance, to permit the conversion of the existing two-family dwelling at 102 Willard Way to a fraternity, sorority, or group home . The property is located in an R2a (Residen- tial, one- and two-family) Use District in which the proposed uses are not permitted . Therefore the ap- pellants must obtain a use variance before a conver- sion can be made . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Beginning with your name . . . MS . OESTERLE : My name is Patricia Oesterle, I represent the own- ers of 102 Willard Way., Mr . & Mrs . Everhart, who are not here because they have moved out of town . This property is a large, single family residence with a basement apartment . It is located in an R2a zone, it is located across the street from a RU zone and across the street from a Rola zone . The owners want a use and area variance so that they can rent or sell their home to a so- rority, fraternity or group home . This use is not permitted in an R2a zone but is permitted in an RU and R3a zone . I have a couple of maps that I would like to put up on the wall, if that is all right . To give the Board a better visual idea as to where this property is located.. this is an aerial map which - it is probably hard to read from where you are - this is Ithaca Gun, this is Lake Street, this is the area that was vacant when the aerial map was taken but is now an apartment complex. . This area was vacant when my clients purchased the property . This is the Everhart ' s house here on the c:orner., behind it is a fraternity 133 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 134 and across the street this large building with a parking area is a fraternity . The only area that is zoned R2a is along this side of Lake Street and along this side and this side of Willard Way . All of the rest of this area is either R3a or RU and, of course, Ithaca Gun is in a commercial area down here . So if you look at the map here, this is Lake Street., the Everhart home is on the corner, as you go up Willard Way, Omega Tau Sigma is behind the Everhart house and two of the other homes along Lake Street . Across the street from the Everhart home is the Kappa Sigma Fra- ternity, across the way, this large parcel here is now the apart- ment complex and the homes along here - several of them are owned by some commercial developers - this area all along here is also R3a which could go multiple families or another apartment com- plex . So the single family homes in this area are restricted primarily to this side of Lake Street, and these two sides of Willard Way, although there is a fraternity over here . According to the tax maps, Collegetown Motor Lodge owns this home here, and there is a fraternity back in here. When I sent out my notices to people within two hundred feet of the home, the tax assessment maps indicated that only six of them were owned by people that actually lived at that address . The rest of the seventeen people were either owned by people that were clearly commercial or out of town, or different parts of Ithaca owners . So I would assume that - in the two hundred foot radius of this property, that only six single family homes were lived in by the people that own that property . This is an unusual property, as you will see from the 134 1 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 135 pictures . Driving up University Avenue., this is the home . As you can see, it is a really beautiful, elegant home with the slate roof, the copper gutter: - it is a beautiful old style home and, as you are driving up University Avenue, you can see across the street, here is that huge apartment complex that has been built since the Everhar•ts bought the home . Behind their home, up on Willard Way, is the big fraternity and this is the front of that fraternity, looking down on to the Everhart property . This, of course, is the Ithaca Gun property and this is the fraternity that is across the street on University Avenue, from this proper- ty . So we' ve got this gorgeous home on the corner, surrounded now by this huge apartment complex., two fraternities that were existing when my clients bought the home and single family homes that go behind it, across the street from it is an Ria zone, which eventually could go more heavily commercial, or more heav- ily residential . In this case I believe that strict adherence to the Zoning Ordinance would cause unnecessary hardship to these owners . There are unique conditions which apply to this property which make it impossible for the owners to obtain a reasonable rate of return on their investment with the permitted use . In order to calculate a reasonable rate of return I had the realtor look at the change in the average rate of return in Ithaca real estate from the time that the Everharts purchased their home in 1979 to the present . The average rate of return for these years was fifteen point seven percent ( 15 . 7%) and I have a chart for you so you don' t have to write this down . Three point five eight 135 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 136 percent (3 . 58% ) point sever► o percent ( . 70%) and six point one eight percent (6 . 18%) respectively . Since figures were not available for 1984 on average home prices yet I used the average of the previous years to use ar► ' 84 figure . I think that ' s a conservative figure because ' 84 was a good year for Ithaca real estate . The Everharts invested eighty eight thousand two hundred dollars ($88, 200 . 00) in purchasing the property and their closing costs . They then spent forty one thousand four hundred dollars ($41, 400 . 00) improving the property . At the time they purchased it it was in pretty miserable condition . They put in a new fur- nace they fully insulated the house, they put in a new powder room, they put in plumbing, they completely repaired and repaint- ed the interior, which was plaster falling off the walls, and they put in the new garage to the rear of the property and repav- ed the driveway . So the total investment they had in their prop- erty was a hundred and twenty-nine thousand, six hundred . ($129, 600 . 00) If you apply the average rate of return figures to their investment, a reasonable rate of return over the five years that they ' ve owned the property., would be an asking price or a value of somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred and seventy- five thousand, seven hundred . ($175, 700 . 00) They ' ve been unable to sell their house . It was listed in May of 1984 at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($250, 000 . 00) - this was based on com- parable homes of its size and style., both in that area and in other areas . Since then they have reduced the asking price down to a hundred and fifty-nine, nine ($159, 900 . 00) and they have not 136 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 137 received any offers on their home consistent with this permitted use . In fact, the only offer- that they have received was for one fifty nine, nine (5159, 900 . 00) and it involved condition on the person making the offer getting a variance for a six unit apart- ment building . This offer the Everharts rejected . At this point it seems clear that the Everharts will receive little or no rate of return, much less a reasonable rate of return on their invest- ment without a variance . The property has been on the market almost a year . The property is now reduced way below what would be considered to be a reasonable rate of return on the property and they have still had no offers consistent with the permitted use . This problem is unique to this property, as you can see from the photographs, the house is substantially different in character and style from the other single family homes in the neighborhood . It ' s an enormous house, it has approximately five thousand square feet . It has six bedrooms . It was built and owned by the Rothschild family and it has become somewhat econom- ically obsolete as a single family home because of its size and its location . It is located at the tip of a very busy intersec- tion, approximately four thousand cars a day pass that - by that street and intersection . If you stand in a doorway and look across the street, you look: at that big, huge apartment complex, which was built after my clients purchased the property . And we have the large fraternity across the street and behind the house we have another fraternity , The dramatic change in the character of the neighborhood since the Ever•harts purchase has created un- 137 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 138 due hardship for them, in addition to them not being able to re- ceive a reasonable rate of return . Granting the variance is a reasonable use of the property, it has been used twice in the past as a fraternity . My research of the title records indicate that from 1946 to 1951 it was a fraternity and from 1953 to 1960 it was a fraternity . Conversion to this use would require little modification of the structure . The existing apartment in the basement could be used for house parents and the six bedrooms plus the large common rooms make logical sense for a sorority or fraternity . There is space on the property for parking and would not put additional burden on the neighborhood in terms of park- ing . The realtor who is going to testify after myself has a dia- gram of where the parking spaces could be put on the property and we do not believe it would then overburden the neighborhood park- ing . It would not create proportionately more traffic on that corner - it ' s already got an enormous traffic load and I don ' t believe that conversion to a sorority or fraternity would create that much additional traffic in comparison to the already large traffic load . Conversion would involve minimal change to the exterior, which is beautiful, and would preserve the woodwork and charm of the interior because it wouldn ' t have to be cut up . Since all the property on Lake Street, across the street, is al- ready R3a, there is already a possibility of increased use with- out a variance in this neighborhood. Granting a variance would not be injurious to the neighborhood or detrimental to public welfare . 138 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 139 MR . BOOTH : Would you explain that? Because the zoning across the street is . . . MS . OESTERLE : It is already R3a MR . BOOTH : Could lead to what? MS . OESTERLE : The single family homes that are. left next to that apartment complex could be converted to more heavy multiple dwellings without a variance - that ' s what happened in . . . MR . BOOTH : You are talking about other properties, not this one? MS . OESTERLE : Right . This one is clearly in a R2a zone . A change to a sorority or a fraternity would not significantly change the character of the neighborhood, particularly where this house has been one in the past . Similar uses are clearly permit- ted in the adjacent zones . There would be no additional health or traffic hazards created by a conversion, many of the homes in the neighborhood are already not single family homes . As I men- tioned before, in sending out my notices there were only six homes that look like owner-occupied, single family homes within the two hundred foot radius out of seventeen parties notified . I ' d like to ask the realtor to make a statement about how we cal- culated the rate of return and he also has a diagram about the parking . We' ve had a lot of interest in this property from a particular sorority that has eighteen women in it and that is one of the reasons that we ' ve come before the Board is to try to get a variance so that we could lease or rent it to this particular sorority and he has had contact with the sorority so that he would have more information for you about that . I would ask the 139 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 140 Board that in reminding the audience about your rule that you are only going to let people within two hundred feet speak in opposi- tion . I believe there are a lot of neighbors who are either ren- ters or clearly outside the two hundred feet radius, that want to speak at this hearing . MR . BOOTH : You said you had a chart for us? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . That is attached to the realtor ' s statement . He will bring that up . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Are there any further questions for this individual as opposed to . . . MR , BOOTH : You said that the owners paid what for it in 1979? MS . OESTERLE : They paid eighty-eight, two ($88, 200 . 00) including their closing costs . I think the purchase price was eighty-seven something and then they had some closing costs involved too . MR . BOOTH : Early 1979, late 1979? MS . OESTERLE : I think it was in the summer of 1979 . MR . BOOTH : They put it on the market in 1984 for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($250, 000 . 00)? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . Now that was based on a comparable - there was some comparable properties in that area that had sold for higher than that, so they did not feel that that was an unreasonable figure . MS . FARRELL : Were those also zoned as single family houses? MS . OESTERLE : The one that was a particular comparable, I think did have one or two more income units in it, so I think the zon- ing was different, but they hadn' t considered that that would be 140 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 141 a problem in marketing their property and, of course, it was . So then they reduced the price clown to a hundred and ninety-five (5195, 000 . 00 ) in June and then they further reduced the price to a hundred and fifty-nine, nine ($159, 900 . 00) sometime in August of ' 84 - so it didn ' t sit on the market at that high price very long . MR . BOOTH : How many houses have: sold in that price range in Ithaca? MS . OESTERLE : Beats me . VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE : It would surprise you . MR . BOOTH : Well I ' m asking . MS . OESTERLE : Yes, I think if you could ask the realtor that question maybe he could give you that information . MS . JOHNSON: So it has been on the market since August at one hundred and fifty-nine? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Since August? Arid the assessed value is what? MS . OESTERLE : The assessed value is ninety thousand ($90, 000 . 00 ) something - I could look that up - I don' t have that right with me but it is on our map, which is over there - it ' s ninety - I think ninety thousand, eight hundred or something like that . It ' s the highest assessed value of a single family home in that neighborhood . The other ones are considerably less . MR . BOOTH : And what do you see as the reason for the difference between the assessed value and the asking price? Is it because normally the assessed values don' t go up until they are sold? 141 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 142 MS . OESTERLE : Right . MR . BOOTH : When was this house last assessed? MS . OESTERLE : I don' t know, I ' m sure that it was assessed after they got a permit for the garage and that ' s probably why it is assessed at more than what they paid for it . That would be my guess . MR . BOOTH : Oh, they built the garage subsequently? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And when was that? MS . OESTERLE : I don' t know, now Tom' s files might show it because they did get a permit to build the garage, because I noticed that when I was doing my research . . . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: It ' s within the last six years? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . I think they built the garage shortly after they bought the house - that is: my guess, but I don ' t know that . MR . BOOTH : The money they spent on the house was essentially interior work - furnace, walls, . . . MS . OESTERLE : Furnace., walls, a new powder room, insulation - it didn ' t have any insulation in it - a typical old house . MS . JOHNSON: Driveway , MS . OESTERLE : They repaved the driveway . MR . BOOTH : And built a garage . MS . OESTERLE : And built a garage . MR . BOOTH : So the forty-one thousand dollars (S41 , 000 . 00) investment includes the garage? MS . OESTERLE : Yes . 142 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 143 MR . BOOTH : Do you know how much the garage was? MS . OESTERLE : I think it was between eight and ten thousand dollars . That would be my gue=ss . That ' s what the permit, I think stated, something like eight or . . . SECRETARY HOARD ' Eight thousand . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Will you bring up your realtor? MS . FARRELL : Tom, when was that done? SECRETARY HOARD : The garage? Between September 1979 - it was completed November 13, 1979 . MS . FARRELL : When did the assessment go up on that house? SECRETARY HOARD : I don ' t know, we don' t have that . DISCUSSION TOOK PLACE HERE BETWEEN BOARD MEMBERS WHICH WASN' T PICKED UP BY THE RECORDER BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS SPEAKING AT ONCE . MR . LEWIS : My name is Richard Lewis, I ' m affiliated with Connie Lewis Real Estate as a sales agent and I have a statement to read but before I do, I ' d like to point this map out in a little bit more detail . On this map I have all the names of owners accord- ing to the tax maps of May 1 , 84 and assessed values, if anybody is interested in looking at it . On this map I have diagrammed as pointed out, outlining the area of the property . It ' s an aerial map obtained from the Assessment Office and I ' ve outlined the fraternities in the area, if anyone is interested in looking at that . Okay . I ' m here to support the request of Mr . & Mrs . Everhart for an area and use variance so that they may sell or rent their home at 102 Willard Way to a sorority, fraternity or 143 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 144 group home . It causes unnecessary hardship to maintain the pre- sent zoning for this property . Without the zoning change the Everharts will be unable to receive a reasonable rate of return on their property . Average rate of return of Ithaca real estate is available from the Board of Realtors . What I did was compared the average selling price for single family homes in the Ithaca area from 1979 to ' 83 . By doing that you can measure the percen- tage increase in value from year to year . No numbers are avail- able for ' 84 as of yet and, as Pat said, we ' d gauge that to be a better than average year . So we averaged the prior years and used that value for ' 84 . Everharts, as Pat said, have about eighty eight thousand, two hundred ($8$, 100 . 00) invested in the purchase price plus - no that includes closing costs - and have made about forty-one thousand four hundred ($41 , 400 . 00) addition- al improvements . And she has mentioned new furnace, garage, new driveway, etc . Using average rate of return for Ithaca real pro- perties for the years that the Everharts have owned the property and multiplying it times the Everhart ' s investment, a reasonable yield on their investment would be about a hundred and seventy- five thousand and seven hundred dollars . ($175, 700 . 00) I be- lieve that these figures are conservative view of a reasonable rate of return for this property since it is located between cam- pus and a desireable location . A sheet of these calculations is attached to my written statement and at this time I ' ll pass that out . Okay . The property was listed in our office on May 30, 1984, as Pat said, for two hundred and fifty thousand 144 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 145 (5250, 000 . 00) - price was consequently reduced to the price that it is now at, one hundred fifty-nine thousand, nine hundred ($159, 900 . 00) . We received only one offer as to this date and that was contingent upon conversion to a six unit apartment house . The Everharts were not particularly fond of that idea and the offer was also contingent upon a variance . Building is sig- nificantly different from the other single family homes in the neighborhood as you can see by these pictures . It ' s a substan- tially built house, I ' ve been in few others like it -the walls are approximately a foot and one half thick, it has a double en- tryway and the front door - it ' s just really a substantial house . It would be perfect for a sorority, fraternity, that type of a home . It ' s got about five thousand square feet, it ' s located behind a fraternity, across the street from a fraternity and across the street from an apartment complex . That apartment com- plex did not exist when the Everharts bought the property and it ' s a major cause of problems in selling the property at this point in time . As far as traffic:, there is approximately four thousand cars a day that go around that intersection . MR . BOOTH : How was that estimated? MR . LEWIS : I got those figures from corresponding intersections from the City Engineer . MR . BOOTH : What does that mean? MR . LEWIS : That means that they have traffic studies for intersections around that area, not for that particular intersection . I took those numbers, and I also stood on the 145 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 146 corner and did some counting myself . That ' s a very busy intersection . MR . BOOTH : Did you get four thousand? MR. LEWIS : I ' m sorry? MR . BOOTH : Did you get four thousand? MR . LEWIS : Didn' t get quite that many . But it is a very busy intersection . It is on a major street up through - anybody who is familiar with it, knows it . MS . JOHNSON : Four thousand a day? MR . LEWIS : Yes . It is .separated in character and style from the rest of the neighborhood - it ' s value is significantly higher than the rest of the neighborhood . You can see by the assessment value - just looking at assessment values themselves . MR . BOOTH : But could that relate to when the properties were sold? MR . LEWIS : Could possibly . The MR . BOOTH : Or last sold, I should say . MR . LEWIS : Last sold - I don' t have data on when the properties were last sold . I imagine, I really don' t know on that . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Would you imagine that a corner lot would be significantly more expensive than a regular off the street lot? MR . LEWIS : It could be, I would also take into consideration the nature of that corner lot, the nature of the intersection and in fact that may depreciate the value . Granting of the variance as a reasonable use of the property, as Pat said, it has been used as a fraternity twice in the past . The change to a sorority 146 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 147 would not necessitate many structural changes on the inside . It is just about ideally suited . There would be some fixing up they would do in the basement, possibly as a rec room or a study room . I have attached - I did some measuring - the City Engineer re- quires or the City requires a hundred eighty square feet for par- king spot - I did some measuring - there is room for at least nine - possibly ten - parking spaces . MR. BOOTH : Where? MR. LEWIS : Where? Okay. MR . BOOTH : Is that what this sketch is? MR . LEWIS : Yes, that is correct . If you look along the existing driveway., there is a seventy-two foot space in front of the house . That would accommodate four spaces . There is a two car garage and behind the house there is space that could accommodate one, probably two parking spots . There is a parking spot at the apartment entrance which is this section right here - that ' s a parking spot and then there is a section right here that could also accommodate some more parking spots so there is plenty of parking there, so that there would be no stress on the street parking or the neighborhood. Let ' s see, the property is located approximately fifty feet from the only adjoining single family home, that is, because it is on a corner lot , it ' s directly be- hind a fraternity, it ' s about sixty feet from the fraternity, that other single family home that it is fifty feet from, is also approximately - I ' d say, sixty to seventy feet from the frater- nity . Granting the variance would not change the character of 147 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 148 this neighborhood nor be detrimental to the public welfare . I ' ve been working with the local sorority, which is in the process of gaining national affiliation . I ' ve been working with them for some time now - since, I guess, mid October . They are not - they are a local sorority right now, they have narrowed their national affiliation down to a selection of three sororities . They have not made a purchase offer on the property at this point in time pending variance change and pending selection of and affiliation with a national sorority . Granted that this affiliation - it will happen, it may be some time down the road - this sorority may or may not fit into this house, because of that . However, I might also add to that that I do have a private investor that is willing to make a purchase on that property and subsequently lease it to the sorority . So one way or another, if we can get the variance, that sorority is, in all likelihood going to move into that house . This sorority is not owned or operated by Cor- nell University which may be a consideration as far as taxes . They would not be tax exempt because of affiliation with Cornell, as far as my understanding . There is approximately eighteen mem- bers who would reside in the home with their house parents . The house parents, or house parent, would reside in the basement apartment, in all likelihood . I have, also, pictures and a map to show the character of this neighborhood and illustrate that the variance wouldn ' t result in a significant change in the neighborhood . And again I will point out that - this is the Everhart house looking south towards Ithaca Gun - it ' s a picture 148 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 149 of the house - this is looking north towards Willard Way - this is a side view looking up University towards Willard Way and the apartment complex on the left - the Everhart house . This is a major drawback for this location - that is one of the reasons why it is really not suitable for single family . This is above the Everhart house -you can just barely see the corner of their house, looking down University Avenue towards the apartment com- plex . This is at the intersection► looking across the street - the Everhart house would be here on this picture - apartment com- plex, multi-family house . Looking down, again, this is looking up Willard Way - right -this is a parking lot for a fraternity that is on the corner of Willard Way and University, behind this house is another fraternity - a very large fraternity, so as far as traffic concerns for that street, I don ' t see how it could increase at all . The traffic there must be already incredible . This is a picture of that fraternity behind this house - this is on Willard Way looking up the hill towards Cornell . That ' s a major street going across the bridge . This is looking down at Ithaca Gun - looking up Lake Street . This is at Ithaca Gun, looking down Lake Street . So I think you can see by these pic- tures the maps, etc . that this area has significant fraternity, sorority activity already and a fraternity activity however - large multiple unit housing complex - an apartment house directly across the street and I guess that is about all I have to say . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions of Mr . Lewis from members of the Board? 149 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 150 CHANGED TAPE HERE - MISSED SOME OF THE DISCUSSION MR . LEWIS : . . . it was at, 1 would say, we ' ve seen them come on the market and be gone the next day . It depends on a lot of things . Technically, I would say, three to six months . MR . BOOTH : Is it unusual for a house to be on the market for a year? In this price range'? MR . LEWIS : Perhaps another person that is in the audience could answer that better than I . MR , BOOTH : Why is that'? MR . LEWIS : I ' m sorry? MR . BOOTH : Why is that? MR . LEWIS : I ' ve not been in this real estate market that long and they have numerous years experience . MR . SCHWAB : Can you tell me how the percentage increase in value is calculated . MR . LEWIS : Okay, what we did is - there is an average selling price per - for houses in the Ithaca area . If you take all the houses and average them together - that ' s what these figures are . Then what I did was, or we did, was take that and just figure the percentage increase each year, on that average price . MR . SCHWAB : I see, so the difference between seventy-nine and eighty is fifteen percent? MR . LEWIS : That is correct . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further questions? MR . BOOTH : Is that a standard way for - to take all the houses in a geographical area and lump them together? 150 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 151 MR . LEWIS : I don ' t know how standard it is, that ' s how we came up with the percentages on this one . It seemed like the most obvious way to do it . It would have been very difficult to zero in on that neighborhood precisely ( unintelligible) so I figured the most reasonable way to do that was to do a sum total of Ithaca. MR . BOOTH : And those average rates come from where? MR. LEWIS : I ' m sorry? MR . BOOTH : Where do you get that information? MR . LEWIS : These are figures published by the Ithaca Real Estate Board . MS . FARRELL ' By who? MR . LEWIS : The Ithaca Real Estate Board . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank you Mr . Lewis . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of granting this variance? Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition of granting the variance? Please step forward . MR . BOOTH : Could you leave the pictures here? They might be helpful . MR. LEWIS : Sure . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: And again, beginning with who you are . MR . DYNKIN: I ' m Eugene Dynkin, Professor of Mathematics at Cor- nell University and the next door neighbor of Everhart . ( 107 Lake Street) It has been mentioned here that the distance between his house and my lot is twenty-five feet and the distance between my buildings is approximately fifty feet . I work mostly at home . 151 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 152 Being a mathematician I keep professional library there my compu- ter and my home office faces the Everhart house . If his house would become another sorority or fraternity, this, of course, would have substantial negative impact on my work in addition to problems which would be created, of course, for my family and for the whole neighborhood . That ' s true, that we have another fra- ternity behind the house - behind my }-souse and their house, but this fraternity is located on a slope, it is sheltered by trees and it absolutely does not interfere except twice a year when they have parties . Then, of course, a lot of noise . But this house is so close to my house that this (unintelligible) is quite different . Everhart ' s property does not meet the requirements for a group home and actually the only reason stated in the Own- er ' s appeal is that they are not able to get the price they want to get . Actually Professor Everhart was a very good neighbor, he was in the Engineering school, he complained, actually, about noise from this fraternity close to our property and he actually called the police even, in the middle of the night, asking them to take some measure . That ' s also true that an apartment complex has been built across the street just in front of Everhart ' s house and at this stage, Professor Everhart was very bitter. that this would diminish the price of the house, of course . And this is so, but at any rate this apartment complex is across the street and it doesn ' t violate any zoning . The question of price has been discussed here and so I don' t need to tell about this again but I believe that it is a more modest price, it probably 152 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 153 would be possible to sell it and, of course, that is true that a lot of improvement has been done in the first two years after Everhart ' s have settled . But most of this was a kind of commer- cial improvement . We also have done some improvement in our house - not on such a large scale - but they simply wanted to maintain the California style of life . They came from California here and they wanted to have as nice house here as they had be- fore - not necessarily this kind of improvement increases the market value of the house, of course . For example, the garage - a very big garage for two cars - it is very nice for a family house, but for a sorority probably it would be more natural to have four cars in the area provided by this garage . So I think it is not true that this area is not a residential area . It is very close to the Campus - this is correct - but a number of pro- fessors of Cornell University have single family houses there . Among them, some people are now neighbors, professors and they ( unintelligible) not to be disturbed more than necessary with all of this development . And, of course this is a very dangerous (unintelligible) across the street that is another different zon- ing so you can park a little bit more and also convert it . So piece by piece you can convert ( unintelligible) My wife, who also is here, and I are in strong opposition to this and a lot of our neighbors are of the same idea . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Any questions? MR . BOOTH : You live down Lake Street? MR . DYNKIN: I live here - yes . And by the way, the Ithaca Gun 153 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 154 factory is substantially down here and it doesn ' t interfere at all, we do not feel it at all . So CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any further questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to granting this variance? Come forward please . MS . TIERNEY ' I am Teresa Tierney and I live at 201 Willard Way . We have lived there since 1960 . There has always been a frater- nity across the road from the Everhart ' s house and in back of the Everhart ' s house - it has always been a very very busy intersec- tion . It did not have the apartment complex but it has always been a very busy area . I happen to know very well the house, very good friends of ours who lived in the house, it was not in bad shape at all . I don ' t think: a lot of things had to be done to it . But I think it was never put on the market at a reason- able price . Nobody in Ithaca is going to pay two hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($250, 000 . 00) for a house in that area . If they want to spend that kind of money, you know, they are in parts of Cayuga Heights or out of town . And we think it was never really put at a reasonable price . The other thing is that there are so many fraternities around and students and traffic that we don ' t need another one . And it ' s really not fair to the neighbors . There was another point brought up that the house along Willard Way, 205 Willard Way, belonged to the Collegetown Motor Lodge . It belongs to the people who own the lodge, and it is a private home and most of the houses along Willard Way, where I live, are all private homes . 154 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 155 CHAIRMAN TUMLAN: Any questions from members of the Board? Thank you . Anyone else who would like to speak in opposition? Come forward please . MR . WARHAFT : My name is Zellman Warhaft, I ' m a Professor of Me- chanical Engineering at Cornell and I live three doors away down Lake Street, 111 Lake Street . I bought that house recently, last April . I would say one important point is that there is no real change in the neighborhood - it is certainly true that the apart- ments have been built across the road but the rest of it was there when Professor Everhart bought the house and he should well have been aware of the studenty nature of the area . He has moved around enough, in my opinion, to realize that . He is a professor and he was Dean of the Engineering School and if he is complain- ing now, he should have been well aware of the investment poten- tial and the selling potential when he bought the house . I think that the real estate agents have made much too much emphasis on the change in the neighborhood which I think is relatively slight - the risk - the other fraternities_; have been there and the na- ture of the neighborhood hasn' t changed very much . Also I think the fact that he cannot sell is riot a reason for rezoning . I think that there are reasons for rezoning places but the whole basis for the argument is that he can' t sell -maybe he couldn ' t have sold it to a fraternity and tie could put a gas station there - I mean - there are limits to what zoning should be about and I don ' t think it should be based on the selling ability of somebody who is clearly an able person who is not suffering . He may be 155 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 156 slightly inconvenienced but I don' t think he is undergoing mater- ial suffering . I also study at home as does Professor Dynkin, and I ' m very aware of noise . I have a family living there and I have students who couldn' t come tonight, neat door to me who are peaceful graduate students, this whole area is a very, very - although it is small - it is a real community of people who are quite peaceful and like the area that way . They like the conven- ience of Cornell and I think it is going to degrade the area if it is changed into a sorority . So that is all I want to say . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions? MR . BOOTH : How big is your house? MR . WARHAFT : I don ' t know what the square feet is but it is four bedroom house . MR . BOOTH : If I might, what did you pay for your house? MR . WARHAFT : I paid seventy-two thousand ($72, 000 . 00) for that house and also, I haven ' t brought that up as part of my case but it would suffer if the zoning was changed . MR . BOOTH : Do you know what your house was assessed at before you bought it? MR . WARHAFT : Around - I think:, I ' m not sure, but somewhere between forty and fifty, I think . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Further questions? SECRETARY HOARD : Would you spell your name for the record? MR . WARHAFT : WARHAFT SECRETARY HOARD : And your first name? MR . WARHAFT : ZELLMAN 156 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 157 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Thank you . Anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to granting this variance? MR . BOWMAN: I am Stanley Bowman and I teach in the Art Depart- ment at Cornell University and I live 204 Willard Way and I am here because my wife and I are in opposition and I guess I would say that I was rather interested to hear the description of the character of the neighborhood as being multiple use and filled with fraternities and sororities because, as I walk out the door in the morning and I look up and down my street I see mostly sin- gle family houses and I look at those houses and I know pretty much who lives in them and that by and large the majority of them are owner-occupied and I guess my concern, like those of my neighbors, is that the character of the neighborhood is really going to be changed if one were to allow a sorority . Now, I guess I would also make an aside comment on that because, as I heard the description of this, it was only a possibility of a sorority or it could be a fraternity, or it could be a group home . I don ' t think it is really clear- at this point what it could be and that bothers me even a bit more because I ' m not sure once a variance is granted, I would assume that it would remain as such and that it would be open to a number of uses by differ- ent groups and I really don' t like the notion of that . I think there are some other things that probably haven ' t been mentioned - one thing that is of concern to my wife and I, is that there is a severe parking problem on the street on which we live and it is very heavily crowded and for the life of me I can' t see how the 157 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 158 addition of a group home or a sorority could not somehow accentu- ate that . I mean, at times we have - the other night when my wife came home, there were cars parked on the lawn of the house next to us . The day after, we had a car parked in our driveway for several hours in front of our driveway and we were nice about it and didn ' t call the police, but we have had that happen sever- al times . I just think the addition of a sorority there would only begin to - it would just simply add to the problems that that presents . I think there are problems with noise - you know - several times a month I ' ll walk outside and will hear music coming from different directions., I can ' t but think that this would add to that problem. The whole issue of the reasonable rate of return and, I guess I was absolutely floored to hear that they should expect fifteen percent on their house, that I should expect fifteen percent on my house . We had our house - we refin- anced our house last year and it was - I calculated it should have been worth twice as much as it was assessed at last year, if those figures were really accurate . So - but in the end, I ' m not sure that maybe that ' s the most pertinent issue here at a Board which is really concerned with zoning appeals, because I think the person that was before me really brought up what may be the crux of the whole issue, which is the rezoning - I shouldn ' t say the rezoning but - maybe it is a piecemeal rezoning to allow the variance . Maybe what this Board would be doing is simply allow- ing a gradual incremental step by step rezoning of that whole area and I guess I would really suggest that this is not the way 158 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 159 to go about it . It should be looked at as a whole and decided if that area maybe should be another zone or it should be protected as it is set up . I suppose the final thing I might say is if this variance were allowed, I think: - my wife and I have talked about this and I ' m not sure that we would want to stay in the neighborhood because I think we are both convinced that unlike the statement that this is not significantly altering the char- acter of the neighborhood and is not detrimental, I think we both feel very strongly that it would be altering the character of the neighborhood . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : Questions? MS , FARRELL : How long have you lived there? MR. BOWMAN: Ten years . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further'' Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of this variance? Come forward please . MR . CONNELLY : My name is Bob Connelly, I live at 220 Willard Way . Down on the level part of Willard Way . I know it ' s late and I ' ll try to keep this short . I think I just would make a few extra points . Also, the character of the thing is something I would feel strongly about as well . We' ve got a seven year old child in there - there are really only a few families in the area - it would be nice to have another family rather than fewer fami- lies . I don ' t see why it couldn' t go that way . Also the park- ing, I haven ' t seen the figures - or the diagram - but just walk- ing past the area, although there is room for several cars, as I 159 i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 160 see it, if they are to create more parking spaces for more than three or four cars, they are going to have several of the cars blocked in . There is only room for two or three of the cars to actually get out, as I see it . Because of that driveway that goes around or they are going to have to park the cars on the front lawn , And, even the addition of one more parking space on the level part of Willard Way there would create an inconven- ience, it is sort of at a critical point . When it is snowing, most people like us have great difficulty parking in our garage because of the hill - we can' t get up the hill when the snow comes and so most people park on this part of Willard Way and there is only room for about ten or twelve parking spaces along that part of Willard Way otherwise you have to walk a mile to park your car . So even a small amount of increase in parking can be quite significant . And also I might ask the question, al- though the house has been on the market for several months, how long has the sign been out? I ' ve been by there, I haven' t even seen the sign . Is there a sign? And also about houses in the neighborhood, just down the street on Lake Street, on the same side, right by the Gun Company, I know the family that was in there, they just moved out - the Ustros - their, house was on the market for, I ' m not sure, four or five months, something like that, at a very low price . I think: it was - I ' m not sure exactly the price but it was something like sixty-five thousand - that was not a small house but not a large house of four bedrooms, I think - just to give you an idea of how long - they had to leave 160 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 161 just like the Everharts and wait several months before they could actually sell their house and their house was actually quite low . That ' s all I have to say . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Questions? Thank you . Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of this variance? Come forward . MS . TURCOTTE : My name is Joan Turcotte and I ' m a broker with Connie Lewis Real Estate . I also did a survey of value - increase in value in certain areas, Belle Sherman, Fall Creek and Cayuga Heights and I don ' t know where this fifteen percent came from but it is misleading . Certain areas of the City, say Fall Creek, has increased over a five year period and that ' s the period that the Everharts owned the house . Cayuga Heights, on the other hand has increased ten percent and I think. that is rather significant . Based on the purchase price and the rate of increase even at one hundred and seventy-five, they are not making any money on that house . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Fine . Any questions? MS . TURCOTTE : Also, I would just like to say one other thing, I know it is very late . When the Everharts bought that house they fell in love with the area, they have no objection to fraterni- ties or students . They were very happy there . But a year after they bought the house there was a huge complex put on a very small lot across from their house and I think it must be some- thing like fifty or sixty units . I talked to one of the neigh- bors just about an hour ago, and he said a hundred units -that 161 i BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 162 might be more than there really is, but I think that is rather significant - that the character of the area has changed since the Everharts bought the property . That ' s all I have to say . MR . BOOTH : What is a typical length of time for a house in the hundred and fifty thousand to two hundred thousand dollar range to be on the market? MS . TURCOTTE : I can only tell you in Cayuga Heights, in the last year, houses have sold, I know personally three houses - one that I sold for two hundred and forty-five and it had been on the market for six months . I can say three houses that have been over a hundred and fifty, between hundred and fifty and two hundred . . . MR . BOOTH : And sold in how long? MS . TURCOTTE : One house sold in three months - the house that I had listed - actually it wasn' t three months, it was two months and three other houses I would say sold within six months, close to two hundred . MR . BOOTH : That is in Cayuga Heights? MS . TURCOTTE : Cayuga Heights, yes . This house - the price on this house was based on a comparable house that is on the knoll - right up the road from Willard Way . This house was appraised for two seventy five - it was purchased by the University at that price and it is comparable in size to the Everhart house . So we had several other realtors who appraised this house and at that time it did not seem out of line for the condition of this house and the location . All right? Thank you . 162 BZA MINUTES :3/18/85 PAGE : 163 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Is there anyone else who would like to speak in opposition to the granting of the variance? If not, we will go into deliberations . 163 1 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 164 DELIBERATIONS ON APPEAL NO . 1608 CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: The faster our deliberations the better we will all be . Shall we come back to the basic purpose - the use variance and the area variance both for deficient lot size? MS . JOHNSON: The house is being used now as a two family dwelling right? MS . FARRELL : Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: True . MS . FARRELL : And it is zoned for that? MS . FARRELL : Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: R2a, residential, one and two family . All right let ' s begin with the lot area . The deficiency created MS . JOHNSON: Eight thousand square feet . MR . SCHWAB * Thirty-two percent . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN' A thirty-two percent deficiency . MS . FARRELL : Would be created, that is not there now with the one and two family? CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: That ' s right . MR . BOOTH : Tom, how do you arrive at twenty-five thousand? SECRETARY HOARD : You go to the zone where the use is permitted and take whatever the figure is - it says that on the . . . MR . BOOTH : I hadn ' t looked at it , MS . JOHNSON: R3b, fraternity, sorority and . . . . SECRETARY HOARD : I don' t make these things up Dick . MR . BOOTH : I know, Tom . I am very tired . MS . JOHNSON: R3b 164 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 165 MR . BOOTH : Item 4. MS . FARRELL : Twenty-five thousand., there you are . Right there . Which means that it is not considered to be sufficiently separated from its neighbors - we have this intensive use . MS . JOHNSON: Driving through there, I cannot figure out how you can get ten parking spaces on that land . At least ten that can move in and out . MR . BOOTH : Ask the Building Commissioner . MS . FARRELL : Do the parking spaces look okay Tom? SECRETARY HOARD : Four spaces in seventy-two feet That one is all right according to - I mean, if the sketch is correct . I don ' t think it is twenty feet back though . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Well to move things along, I am going to make a motion . 165 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 166 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1606 102 WILLARD WAY The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of Thomas and Doris Everhart for use and area variances to permit the conversion of the existing two-family dwelling at 102 Willard Way to a fraternity, sorority, or group home . The decision of the Board was as follows : CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I move that the Board deny the use and area variances requested in appeal number 1605 . MR , BOOTH : I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) The proposed variances would create substantial deficiencies in lot area . 2) There was evidence supplied by numerous people in the neighborhood that the proposed use would change the character of the neighborhood , 3) Financial hardship was not adequately demonstrated in light of the time the property was on the market and for the length of time it had been on the market . 4) While enough parking might have been created on the site, that, certainly with the use of the property having been changed, the increased density and the activity that would be attendant would exacerbate the problems in off-street parking throughout the area. VOTE : 4 YES; 1 NO; 1 ABSENT DENIED 166 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 167 SECRETARY HOARD : The last case is APPEAL NO . 1609 630 WEST BUFFALO STREET Appeal of King Post Truss Partners for an area variance for deficient lot size, deficient lot width, and deficient setbacks for both side- yards, to permit the conversion of the house at 630 West Buffalo Street from a two-unit dwell- ing containing one two-bedroom unit and one three-bedroom unit, to a two-unit dwelling con- taining two three-bedroom units . The property is located in a B-4 (Business ) Use District in which the proposed use is permitted : however under Sections 30 . 49 and 30 . 57 the appellants must obtain an area variance for the listed deficiencies before a building permit or Certi- ficate of Occupancy can be issued for the con- version . MR . JENSEN: My name is Jack: Jensen, representing KPT Partners, which is closely related to Equity Builders, General Contractors . By way of introduction, our partnership, which consists of six partners from Equity Builders bought these two buildings with the intention of putting them into Section 8 Housing and with the aid of the City ' s Facade Renovation Program fixing up the corner building 632 West Buffalo, which currently houses Pedal Away ' Bicycle Store and the upstairs of that building although it had some major deficiencies, was on the rolls as a four-bedroom apartment . We have turned that into a two-bedroom apartment with a small phone office for our construction company . The other building, 630, which is what we ar-e under discussion - was sold to us as two, three-bedroom apartments . Apparently is on the City rolls as a three-bedroom and a two-bedroom . The problem being one mainly of logistics, the first floor apartment of that building, and I have a map here - blueprints here - currently has 167 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 168 one bedroom here, a pretty awkward bath, and a larger bedroom here . At the time we bought the building there was a partition running between these two windows, across here - as you can see, there is two doors into the apartment - it was used as two bed- rooms - however neither of them were legally sized . Since taking occupancy this partition has been removed - the ceiling panels sag in the middle . Our proposal is to revamp the downstairs to match the upstairs, which would be the configuration of two-bed- rooms, a bath and a third bedroom. Although it is a little hard to gauge the density of those units, through the City records, they were literally packed with people when we took them. I think the conditions of the building and the proposed renova- tions, not only of 632 and with INHS ' s help with 630, we will greatly enhance both properties and the neighborhood as well . Apparently we have worked out the parking problems for both buil- dings and I don ' t believe that is an issue as lot size - we are not proposing any change in the footprint of the building - it is deficient as it stands in just about every aspect of its lot plan - side yards, rear yards . If we are not allowed to change this into a three-bedroom apartment, what we will have to do is leave it as a two-bedroom - we will have to do major repairs to make those two bedrooms liveable, up to code, and with the original mortgage, the mortgage that we have taken on as part of the fa- cade renovation and the proposed third mortgage through INHS, quite frankly we need to get the income from the three bedrooms as we had anticipated from the start . Since it is late, I ' ll 168 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 169 make that the end of my presentation . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Any questions? MR . BOOTH : The house as it existed when you bought it had three bedrooms on each floor? MR . JENSEN : Three bedrooms on each floor . MS . FARRELL : But they were not of equal size, right? MR . BOOTH : The ones on the bottom floor were not all legal size? MR . JENSEN: Correct . MR . BOOTH : And you want to continue to have three bedrooms on each floor, although in a different configuration? MR. JENSEN: Right . MR . BOOTH : Why are they here, I ' m missing something . SECRETARY HOARD : Well we had them down as having one unit with two legal bedrooms and one unit with three legal bedrooms . MR . BOOTH : I see, whereas in fact one of them had been divided again so that there were three . So you are saying to us that the reason for the variance is that they are changing from two bedrooms to three bedrooms on the bottom floor? SECRETARY HOARD : I don ' t know which is upstairs and which is downstairs . MR . BOOTH : Whichever . That ' s the reason they need the variance? SECRETARY HOARD : Yes . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? MS . FARRELL : I ' ll make a motion . MR . BOOTH : I have one question. When you say you are going to decrease the total number of bedrooms available, is that true? 169 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 170 MR . JENSEN : Well, we are doing that by - if you take the two buildings together, which is sort of impossible not to, we have changed the upstairs of 632, the corner building . . . MR . BOOTH : But we are not dealing with 632 . . MR . JENSEN: The question at hand is 630 West Buffalo, right . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: Further questions? Stewart? MR. SCHWAB : No . 170 BZA MINUTES 3/18/85 PAGE : 171 DECISION ON APPEAL NO . 1609 630 WEST BUFFALO STREET The Board of Zoning Appeals considered the appeal of King Post Truss Partners for an area variance to permit the conversion of the house at 630 West Buffalo Street from a two-unit dwelling containing one two-bedroom unit and one three-bedroom unit, to a two-unit dwelling containing two three-bedroom units . The decision of the Board was as follows : MS . FARRELL : I move that the Board grant the area variance requested in appeal number 1609 . CHAIRMAN TOMLAN : I second the motion . PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT : 1 ) The proposed use is consistent with the Zoning Ordinance . 2) The proposed changes do not exacerbate the present lot area, lot width, and side yard deficiencies , 3) The proposed changes will bring this previously deteriorated property into compliance with the building code . 4) Provision for adequate parking has been made . VOTE : 5 YES; 0 NO; 1 ABSENT GRANTED CHAIRMAN TOMLAN: I would ask: that the record note that there was no one in favor nor opposition, aside from the appellant . Just for the record . There was no one else there; the Press has even gone home . 171 - 172 - I , BARBARA RUANE, DO CERTIFY THAT I took the minutes of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York, in the matters of Appeals numbered 1-1-85, 1600, 1604, 1605, 1606, 1607, 1608 and 1609 on March 18, 1985 in the Hall of Justice, City Court, 120 E. Clinton Street, Ithaca, New York, that I have transcribed same, and the foregoing is a true copy of the transcript of the minutes of the meeting and the action taken of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, New York on the above date, and the whole thereof to the best of my ability. 7 Barbara C. Ruane Recording Secretary Sworn to before me this r� day of 1985 Notary Public JEAN J. HANKINSON NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE:OF NEW YORK No. �5-1�;0800 QUALI ?EO IP, TCP,:-KINS COUNTY MY CC;;;':�SICPd EXPIRES MARCH 30,19