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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1977-09-12 !I k M� 4i li i' I TABLE OF CONTENTS 4fi I!MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, ITHACA !i �INEW YORK SEPTEMBER 12, 1977 . ! Page !!APPEAL NO. 1162 Mark A. Clemente & 1 j Wayne B. Stokes +` 305 Stewart Avenue JAPPEAL NO. 1162 Executive Session i5 �i �iAPPEAL NO. 9-2- 77 Ithaca Real Food Coop. 16 213 Fifth Street 1� JiAPPEAL NO. 9-2-77 Executive Session 27 liCertification of Recording Secretary 28 i c) kl l� i� y� �! 1 '3 ky I' (j 'k i i� I, k, s i! 4! �i ! 1� E� 1{ f VI �f t II �I BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, CITY OF ITHACA �i CITY HALL, ITHACA, NEW YORK 14850 SEPTEMBER 12 , 1977 j A regular meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals , City of 11Ithaca, was held in Common Council Chambers , City Hall , Ithaca, New ; York on September 12 , 1977. (RESENT: Peter Martin, Chairman Judith Maxwell C. Murray VanMarter Gregory Kasprzak j 11 Martin Greenberg �! Edgar Gasteiger Thomas Hoard, Building Commissioner and Secretary to the Board << Barbara Ruane, Recording Secretary �i I; Chairman Martin opened the meeting listing members of the Board resent. A full compliment of the Board is present this evening. j� he Board operates under the provisions of the Ithaca City Charter, ' �he Ithaca Zoning Ordinance and the Ithaca Sign Ordin-ance. Our j earings are not bound by strict rules of evidence. We do, though, i II�£ollow a fairly standard procedure of asking that all the evidence resented in favor of a case be presented first. We ask those who i resent that evidence come front, identify themself by name and I 4ddress . We follow that by inviting all those who wish to speak in i pposition to do so. As I say we are not bound by strict rules of �vidence but we do ask that all evidence and testimony presented be i' (�imited to the issues before the Board and that extraneous material ' I bout the quality of upkeep of a building or other extraneous mater� 1 al not be part of the testimony. After hearing all testimony on he cases before the Board we then go into executive session to eliberate, we reconvene briefly in public session to announce the results of those dleiberations . Mr. Secretary what is our first ase? ECRETARY HOARD announced the first case to be heard: PPEAL NO. 1162 : On July 11 , 1977, the Board of Zoning Appeals ; +( heard the appeal of Mark A. Clemente and Wayne B. Stokes for an area variance to convert the : old carriage house at 305 Stewart Avenue to a tavern. The Board granted the variance, but included a condition requiring that off-street parking be made available for a "reasonable �iE period of time - ten years". The appellants have developed a proposal for meeting this Ij I j II - 2 - Ij I condition and are presenting it to the Board l� for approval. The Board' s consideration of i this proposal will be the only matter under consideration on this appeal. (MARK CLEMENTE: My name is Mark Clemente - I live at 111 Judd Fallsi ,Road. jWAYNE D. STOKES: My name is Wayne Stokes I live at 163C Lansing ;Worth Apartments . ,MR. CLEMENTE: The first thing I would Like is for Mr. Martin to please read the letter from Mr. Bentkowski. JrHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright, I have and have just opened a letter to ithe Board of Zoning Appeals from, Mr. John A. Bentkowski , manager �p 'ICornell University Real Estate dated 9/6/77 : ; �VGentlemen and Mrs . Maxwell : �'I am writing to you with respect to the request by Messrs . Stokes �nd Clemente with respect to a variance for parking. t I'Cornell University does lease land and does lease land for parking ; through an instrument called a license. These licenses for usage re more or less continuous in nature .. For many years we have had his kind of agreement with Mr. Schickel for parking north of Oak �venue for his apartments located on Dryden Road (not Maple Avenue) r. Schickel maintains and uses the lot for a nominal fee. This ha4 f educed considerably the question of street parking in that area. J'I believe this method could and would be used with respect to the of at Williams Street and Stewart Avenue. i I'Parking in the area has been a problem not only with us but gener- ! ally in that area. A step in the direction of parking by tenant corgi- rol would be helpful . i I'A ten year lease commitment is not feasible at this time since no �bsolute plans have been determined for the land. The land area is arge enough in question so that any future development would leave ufficient room for accommodation of an area business parking lot. incerely yours , s/ John A. Bentkowski, Manager i ornell University Real Estate" i 3 - I MR. CLEMENTE: Thank you. I 'm coming here tonight to ask you to (;reconsider. . . . MRS. TUTTON: We can' t hear you. We can' t hear. . . .. r �jMR. CLEMENTE : I 'm sorry. We 're coming before you tonight to ask I I you to reconsider the condition you put on the variance at the July 1111th meeting. What we would like is a for this proposal for 1 �1 IjMr. Bentkowski to suffice for the condition that you put on the �gvariance. What we would also like to add is that if at any time in I Ithat ten (10) year period that you specified in the original condi-i 1 (tion that we should lose the parking privileges at Cornell and can' t Mind another lot in that area to park in, to find our thirty (30) y �jspots , then we would be willing to close if the Board should so de- i= { �clare. l� CHAIRMAN MARTIN: So, what you are proposing is a modification of t�e +original condition. The original condition was assurance in the form �of a lease from Cornell that thirty (30) spots would be provided ini that lot for ten years , referring to the provision of the ordinance; i that requires some sort of assurance of continued availability of I parking. For that ten year requirement you would substitute a license arrangement with Cornell which falls short of giving ten jyears assurance - but you would undertake to close down if, within 'that ten year period the parking - you'd lose the Cornell parking Viand couldn' t find other. i R. CLEMENTE: I 'd also like to read a letter from Mr. Bentkowski ±Ito Mr. Stokes and myself: "This is to reconfirm Cornell University' s position to rent thirty x(30) spaces for parking on the lot located on the corner of William`$ I Street and Stewart Avenue. Said rental will b-e.: through our standard icensing agreement. All responsibility for the care grounds-keepiig nd orderly maintenance of the property will be the renters . Suitable i gns, notices and caution shall be located on the property notify4g I he users of the lot that it is under the care I , control and operation i f the tenant. it is my hope that this will permit us together to i! lrontrol parking in that area. Sincerely yours , John A. Bentkowski, f, ,�anager, C.U. Real Estate. " �4 ! I; 'd I 0 j ii 4 i' CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Well, the Board imposed the condition, realizing j t (, quite possibly that that would prevent - that it would be something; that Cornell might not agree to and that it might therefore end up E ;;preventing the use which the area variance has granted subject to ! that condition purported to grant. You've come back and countered 1Iwith another possible condition, are there questions from the Boardj s' :about it? In effect, you've asked us to reconsider that the varian�e ilwith condition granted at the earlier meeting. �3MR. STOKES: I would like to add that in that parking lot in questipn ! that it' s zoned in an R-2 , with an area stipulation that a building i cannot occupy more than 35% of the lot size and Mr. Bentkowski has i �Itold us that the lot size is roughly between 90 and 100 cars large, ] ijso that even if 35% of that space were taken up for a building them i (would still be sufficient room left over if zoning remains the way I t lit is right now. I ; CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Questions from members of the Board? Yes. I ' R. KASPRZAK: I have one question. Did you or did John Bentkowski i l�Iursue this question with his superiors or did he arrange or make I the statement on his own behalf only? R. STOKES: Mr. Bentkowski does not have the authority to give us !I ! `a ten year lease. He said that if we were to go through the proper! II hannels to higher personnel at Cornell that it would take two or I hree months longer and we thought of taking this alternative inst0d. i �R. KASPRZAK: Thank you. i CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Let me understand that a little more clearly. That e, himself, could not commit Cornell to ten years . It would have j Ito go through more elaborate channels for that kind of commitment a#d i 1�he decision not to go that road was not that you knew the answer f ould be no, but that it would take more time? R. STOKES: Well, he said even then it would take more time but he i , aid it would be two to three months before the formalities would �ake place and the waiting period and that even at the end of that 1� ime, he said he wouldn' t - he says that he really couldn't see them i�ranting us a ten year. . . . it i ! it + 'i j - 5 - + SMR. CLEMENTE : They don't want to tie up a piece of property for ten ' I !,years to one tenant. j ! 11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: No. Alright. MR. VAN MARTER: I have a question about the designation for the zoning. It is in fact R-2? That has been changed from . . . i MR. HOARD: It' s R-3a. 11MR. VAN MARTER: I don' t know what that does to a neighborhood park !i ing lot. When I heard R-2 mentioned it rang a bell with me as to whether neighborhood parking lot was permitted in R-2 . Now I have k i 'Ito ask the question is it permitted in R-3a? j 1IMR. HOARD: No, except that that parking lot is there as a pre, I !'existing parking lot to be used by different tenants or different i arrangements , but it is still an existing parking lot , We are not going to increase the size of the parking lot as I understand it, I 'are you? MR. CLEMENTE: No. ,! MR. VAN MARTER: We have been assured there are thirty (30) spaces �Ithere, that' s right? i CHAIRMAN MARTIN: That ' s right. Are there further questions from I !members of the Board? j MR. GASTEIGER: Do we have a picture of the utilization of that lot! now? Will this displace thirty (30) people? This was discussed, I I ,think, but I have forgotten. lMR. CLEMENTE : Mr. Bentkowski told me that they just lease these out to any students that might want to lease from them. They have morel than sufficient spots to take care of all their tenants in that are and the property that Cornell owns - the apartment houses - and to P,take care of us as well . And it won' t displace anybody. 'CHAIRMAN MARTIN: It won' t displace anyone. You will, however, it ' ` the understanding - both sides , that your spaces will be segregated! Jin the sense there will be spaces identified for you by proper signage. J�MR, CLEMENTE: That is correct, yes . I� + p s !$ - 6 - 1MR. VAN MARTER: Is it true I do not hear any firm term? '!MR. CLEMENTE: That is correct. I j'CHAIRMAN MARTIN: That is correct. It could evaporate after a year. f There is a commitment to a year. Is that right or . . . commitment I I Ito a year but you are saying that you would acquiesce in a condition ;that said if at the end of a year, two years, three years , Cornell Idoes not renew and you can' t find anything else our condition i dwould be that the variance would end. } iIMR. CLEMENTE : Right i CHAIRMAN MARTIN: That 's what you are proposing we change it to? i ;IDR. GREENBERG: Peter, there is one sentence at the very close of f I!the letter by Bentkowski, which seems to imply that if the structure itis built there would be enough parking left over for an area vari- i= �ance? Do you want to read that part over . . . ; CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Well , that was alluded to I think, just a moment 1 .go i 'Iby the discussion of the zoning there and how much of that property, i i could be covered. . . ii 1DR. GREENBERG: Yes , that is right but . . . . E fICHAIRMAN MARTIN: The land area is large enough in question so "i !that any future development would leave sufficient room for accommo- I ,Idation of an area business parking lot. i I iIDR. GREENBERG: That would seem to imply that they could grant. . . I I CHAIRMAN MARTIN: That a ten year lease would not tie their hands i (,substantially. �DR. GREENBERG: Yes, that ' s right, that' s what it seems to say to mo. IMR. STOKES: Mr. Bentkowski said one of the reasons why they I I couldn' t tie the land up was in case, even though Cornell does i not sell very much property, in the event that they had to sell thej i (land, that they didn't want a stipulation on it that would hurt i their chance of selling it . I GREENBERG: Well I think that could be . .�DR. CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there further questions from members of the I Board? i i I; j i - 7 - ji {� I is I iMR. VAN MARTER: In lieu of the requirement for a nominal ten year Blease you are offering the proposal for a minimum of one year and ' no longer stipulated as being firm. �i , CHAIRMAN MARTIN: That' s right. They are asking us to listen to th� I Ikinds of unfirm assurances that they have from Eentkowski that this; i lis likely to continue and also to their willingness to accept a con} I jdition that they would close if the thing should evaporate. i CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Further questions? IMR. KASPRZAK: Are you really willing to take that chance that afte one year, if Cornell decides that you have no parking facility, you Iwill be closing? i R. STOKES: We have been offered a continuous lease by Mr. Bentkowi j�ski for parking that is available there and . . . . I{, fMR. CLEMENTE : Excuse me, there doesn' t seem to be any other use , for that land as far as Cornell is concerned, it 's just that they ave something against a ten year lease. There is no real reason t� E, think that the option to renew the parking facilities will evaporat . '�R. KASPRZAK: No, I don't think the option will but just in case I � Cornell decides to build something on it �R. CLEMENTE : Well even if it did, it could only cover 350 of the land and you take 35% . . . I R. KASPRZAK: You are forgetting one thing. If you build a resi- ential unit and that is what it ' s zoned for, you will have to prov�de i arking for those units , too. I mean it will infringe upon your 1� ease I 'm sure. I know - I 'm positive that it will. So that is 6 ghat I am kind of concerned about. Because they are short of �ousing right now, as you probably read everywhere. And there is a possibility that they might build - you know, two, three, four, five ears from now I don' t know. HAIRMAN MARTIN: Well , as I understand you, you are quite confident that you will have the parking for ten years which is why they're reading all the signs. — why you are quite prepared to offer the `I ort of condition that you have. Even though there isn't a firm I egal commitment to a ten year lease. . . rl "I !I 8 i! MR. KASPRZAK: I hear what they are saying but I am just switching I 'lmy sides are they willing to take that chance that just in case, �i 11you know, something different happens a year from now - that they 11take a chance on closing the door before they made their reputation;. ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: You and your creditors Are there further i Ijquestions from the Board? I see none. Thank you. I;MR. CLEMENTE AND MR. STOKES: Thank you. !! I CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Now, who else would like to be heard on this case? E First, let me ask if there is anyone else who would like to be !heard in favof of the requested variance with the modified conditio�? ! MR. GIORDANO: My name is Vincent Giordano, I live at 57 Woodcrest li I HAvenue and not near this site. I didn't come here for this , I came �1here for the next one. But I 'm a little bit familiar with this , I , I know Mark and I know Mr. Stokes from Cornell and I 'm not the con- ,tractor for this project but I think, like Greg, I 'd like to see #you get these two boys back up here and retract that statement on tai Hone year stuff. Because I know that these boys are putting all of P g !their life savings in this enterprise and I hate to see them lose I parking after three years and close up and maybe lose their financi1 A (status . I know they are both confident and I think they will do a I' I 1�good job and I am in favor of it but I hate to see them go into this ! conditional because that 's their business . Ii ! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright, now is there anyone who would like to bel heard in opposition to the variance which we had granted subject to !condition which now the appellants are seeking to modify? !MRS. TUTTON; I am Bernice Tutton, 110 Osmun Place. First I would like to ask, if the city is in the habit of making agreements with { individuals of this kind? !CHAIRMAN MARTIN: The question is whether the city is in the habit � 1 or the custom to making agreements with individuals of this sort. i The zoning ordinance permits us when we grant a variance, to grant j �it subject to conditions. The condition which we attached in this t! �Igrant of a variance which the appellants are seeking to modify is ' i, Y f la condition which really picks up and simply makes more concrete a w it �I i ii - 9 - '1provision of the zoning ordinance itself, which requires continued J,assurance of parking where off-street parking requirements are being ;satisfied by parking that ' s on, not the property in question, but J nearby land. So that it' s in the form of a condition being attached ,Ito a variance and they are simply proposing one condition which lldiffers from a condition that the Board, in fact, attached at it' s 11prior meeting. I I MRS. TUTTON: Well , who would enforce this? 11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Who would enforce it? It would be enforced by the �JBuilding Commissioner as the variance itself would be enforced and the zoning ordinance. I RS. TUTTON: What would happen if they sell the property? i CHAIRMAN MARTIN: What would happen if they sell the property? It would carry the variance and the conditions to the variance right (along with the sale. �) RS. TUTTON: Well, I mean the parking is not available but they till sold the property? j �ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: The parking is not available, they sold the propetty, J he variance would be gone, because the variance would be contingent n the continued availability of the parking, as they propose it . RS. TUTTON: So, in other words , they could sell the property once : I hey no longer had parking. HAIRMAN MARTIN: If they no longer had parking they could sell it J ut without the parking the variance would be no good and there ouldn' t be that many people interested in buying it I would supposq. I RS. TUTTON: Well I was at a loss as to why this meeting was being 'I eld. The garage on the southside of 305 Stewart Avenue has been emoved with at least one of the petitioners for the appeal in atter- lance at least part of the time. Work has been in progress on theJ J J �Oain garage since last week. Having lived and paid taxes in this rea for more than forty years and having told you some of the traffic, larking and noise problems, we feel entitled to some consideration. ; 'here certainly can be no financial hardship for Mr. Park for he �4 '!�ould have apartments with garage parking, nor for anyone else who I� 6 3 i 1R !I 10 - f Hhas made no investment. In section 30. 35 Ordinance of the City of ,!Ithaca, as you stipulated July 11th in your conditions of granting i ;this variance, is to be disregarded why not remove the whole sectio} �I 'land give everyone else the same deal? 7 `CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Do members of the Board have any questions for Mrs . Tutton? IMRS. TUTTON: I 'm sorry. 1 MR. VAN MARTER: Yes. Has anybody else asked for this? IIMRS. TUTTON: Yes . MR. VAN MARTER: She ended with a question? I ' 1ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Could you elaborate on the question that is to 'I say • j IMR. VAN MARTER: We don't grant anything without first having a re- !' liquest, ma, am. We have not had a request from additional persons, E ii IfCHAIRMAN MARTIN: We do grant area variances. We granted an area i �Ivari.ance in this case subject to a very strict condition. Our j charge is to grant or deny area variances and use variances , MRS. TUTTON: You grant it for apartments that don' t have enough parking, etc. ? I �ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: The variance in this case concerned yard require-i Ements , and we attached a condition concerning parking to a variances E1we granted that concerned the yard requirements of the ordinance. 1MRS. TUTTON: This is what I understood - it was part of the ordinance itself that they had to do it before they qualified. Isn't that +right? They have to have the parking before they qualify. �ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: They have to have thirty (30) spaces or something! i Iclose to it of off-street parking without regard for the variance, lWe simply picked up on that and the problems that you and others alluded to about traffic and parking there. MRS. TUTTON: That ' s right. i �iCHAIRMAN MARTIN: And when we granted the area variance, put some li 11concrete measurement on the ordinance ' s requirement of continued 1l assurance. 'i III�MRS. TUTTON: So really the variance had nothing to do with parking'. li ' 1, !! j - 11 - i i '';The City of Ithaca has an ordinance that we have to have if a place! ;;like this should have thirty - with that seating capacity - should i ,have thirty spaces. I 11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Should have thirty spaces or for roughly that of ,y !!off-street parking. And they are proposing that they will have that ii jand at the point where they cease to have it they will close businejss ithey say. So they are proposing that theBoard accept what they have (proposed as compliance with the ordinance. MR. KASPRZAK: Excuse me ma' am. I think your problem or your ques-i 11tion is that if those two gentlemen stop being "renters of the space" I i ;because I don' t believe they are buying it, the variance would carry e iiwith the property or with them if they leave the area. Am I reading I (your correctly? �i SIMRS. TUTTON: No, what I was asking is there is no more parking javailable, then maybe they could sell the property to someone else i ;without their knowing thatthere wasn't a parking available. IIMR. KASPRZAK: Well the variance and the condition attached goes with i �iItheproperty not with the ownership. Whoever owns the property cannot l ;use it unless the conditions are met. I£ the condition is not met I'the use has to desist. That' s the law. This is what we are charged Ito deal with. You know, if somebody tries to use it without this 1condition being adhered to then Mr. Hoard goes in and puts the pad-j lock on their door. That ' s what we hope he will do, of course. This i is the law. Unfortunately, whether we agree or disagree with it , i this is what we have to abide by. MRS. TUTTON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there others who would like to address themse� f Ito this case? } �jMRS. SANFORD: I 'm Mrs . Florence Sanford, owner of property at 1131 hOsmun Place and I would like to make some statements concerning the' I�parking situation in our area. I will start and say that the parkin g I Istipulation as I understood it was to be a ten year guarantee by i +Cornell University to rent thirty parking spaces for the use of the! I of this 1patrons proposed tavern. This morning I talked with. Mr. lBentkowski, manager of the Cornell Real EState Department and he i I ' j� Elii i 12 - told me they had agreed to give only a one year license for thirty i spaces when available. This license would be reviewed each year `hand if there was no status change in regard to the parking lot it ( would be continued for another year. The license also carries a IMcancellation privilege on ninety days written notice. On Thursday of last week work started on the roof of the carriage house in Ij Iquestion and the workmen told me they were doing it for the new tavern. I could not help but wonder why the work should start before i i'the zoning variance had been fully complied with which should, of �jcourse, be accomplished before it is even granted. I have been y ;checking the parking situation in the lot at various situation in the lot at various times since i i 'being notified of this meeting and the most free spaces I have ever +ifound at any one time has been fifteen. A check at 6 : 00 this morni g a� 'showed the following parking situation in our area: in the parking 'ilot there were fifty-eight (58) cars with five vacant spaces . On Buffalo Street from Stewart Avenue to Aurora Street it was parked � I Ilsolid with two vacant spaces, plus ten cars parked on the wrong sid� of the street. From Terrace Place to Aurora Street it was parked ' solid on the wrong side of the street. On Seneca Street it was i jjparked solid, both above and below Stewart Avenue. On Stewart Avenge I from Osmun Place to Seneca Street there were only five vacant space �1plus four metered areas . On Osmun Place there were four parked car , i! !two metered spaces vacant , all parked illegally since it was an odd Parkin.� ht gni� S g is not permitted on the Southside of Osmun Place but I Ion many a Friday or Saturday night the block is all but nearly fill�d on both sides making it impossible for any fire equipment to get Ithrough should it be necessary. I have pictures of the parking ares (taken this afternoon which show it to be filled. And if thirty of (these spaces are to be removed, where will these thirty cars be 6 i arked? And in closing, I would like to say, that if laws, regula+ ((tions , restrictions , etc. are made to be broken when convenient, why Illshould we have them at all? �HAIRMAN MARTIN: You have photographs that you would be prepared to i leave with us? I�RS. SANFORD: Yes , you may have them. i i1 ii I� j - 13 - ii i i 1CHAIRMAN MARTIN: These were taken this afternoon? i1MRS. SANFORD: This afternoon. 11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Thank you very much. Are there questions from r l�members of the Board? Is there anyone else who would like to be Sheard on this case? `MRS. RIPLEY: I am Mrs . Annie Stiles Ripley, 214 Stewart Avenue. iiThe only thing that bothers me in this letter which I don' t under i1stand, is at the meeting, the BZA will consider only the parking 11condition issue imposed and not the entire appeal for the variance. ! I I What is the entire appeal for the variance? r I ( CHAIRMAN MARTIN: At the prior meeting the Board went over the quest IItion of whether or not an area variance should be granted. That is! �I Ito say, the use proposed the tavern - is permitted by the zoning �lordinance. The problem with the zoning ordinance and this property Iwas minor deficiency of the yard, The Board granted the area vari- I ;lance after hearing all the evidence at that prior hearing subject tp I Ia condition that concerned parking. And the appellants now are see� - Ii ling to have us modify the condition. The limitation of the notice I i,that you are referring to simply says that we are not being asked t� fgo over the whole question of whether or not an area variance should. ave been granted, simply whether or not the condition should stay I; jas it is, which requires a ten year lease which they say they can' tl i ome up with or be modified so as to be satisfied with what they ha�e �een able to come up with. FIRS, RIPLEY: Is Cornell going to be paid for these parking spaces? I� PAIRMAN MARTIN: I assume so. I think we 've heard testimony to I lihat affect. iMRS. RIPLEY: I just wondered. Well I think that clears it up. Thank you. i I CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Thank you. Are there any others who would like tq ll�e heard on this case? Others who would like i ke to be heard in opposi� ion? Anyone else who would like to be heard now in favor of the ppeal. Yes . I i0BERT BURNS: My name is Robert Burns , I am manager of RHP Real I I' I it - 14 - �' I i ,'Estate which owns the property in question. I would just like to clear up some points that were brought up tonight regarding the cont Istruction that' s going on up there right now. The garage on the 3lsouthside of this property, we wereinstructed by the city to either iirepair it or demolish it and so we took it down. As far as the work it jIthat is being done on this building we made an inspection and I 'm Iv ysure the Building Commissioner has gone through the building and we have found that the rafters and the roof boards in this building ar� trotted. At one time, many years ago I guess, there was a fire up i� {Ithe top of this building and there was some leakage over the years . �,So what we are doing is that we are redoing the whole roof structur Efin order to save the building. I just wanted to clear that up. I CHAIRMAN MARTIN: And it' s work that does not require a variance, a� I Ithis point it' s work that is simply restoration of the structure as I , it is . I i MR. BURNS: Right. And I think aesthetically the building we want to keep - we don' t want to do anything else, we want to maintain th�t building whether these people i I � g r r �• n •r not we have t• 1• something � to maintain the building. CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright. Any questions? Thank you. I think that I, then has everyone who wants to speak on this case heard. Is there j 1anyone I've missed? Alright, then we will move on to the next casel. a i j i i I= f v I I i l - 15 - I: r {f BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS I CITY OF ITHACA SEPTEMBER 12 , 1977 o t EXECUTIVE SESSION �JAPPEAL NO. 1162 : CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I move that the condition attached to the js area variance granted on July 11th be left I !! unchanged. MR. VAN MARTER: I second the motion. ( FINDINGS OF FACT: 1. After having heard the degree of commitment that the appellants have been able to ob-1 I tain, it is clear that the condition the i i Board laid down in July has not been met, I� 1 that at most the commitment is for one ! t year but even that may be terminable by Cornell. j 2. The traffic and parking problem is a i I; severe one in the area. This was the � !1 reason why the Board attached the original. 1 condition, and nothing this evening sug- gests that that problem is any less severe cthan the Board thought in July. VOTE: YES 6; NO 0 i I� i i i I' i I �� I II I 111 I 16 - I !SECRETARY HOARD announced the next case to be heard, I I HAPPEAL NO. 9- 2-77 : The appeal of the Ithaca Real Food Coop. for �I an exception to Section 34 . 6A of the sign or-! 11 dinance of the City of Ithaca for a 420 squarle �j foot mural to be painted on the outside wall of the building located at 213 Fifth Street . They are also requesting a 15 square feet bilR board type wood sign for the same address. II The sign ordinance permits 111 square foot per; I lineal foot of structure facing the public " right-of-way with a maximum of 250 square fee Ij of signage by each business conducted on the I) Ij premises . The property is located in a B-4 I (business) use district . �ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Running the figures of what the ordinance permits, Iroughly how much signage is allowed? Maybe you said it and I misse' ;lit. I �MR. HOARD: Well, a maximum of 250 square feet. 1 IICHAIRMAN MARTIN: 250. They've got enough frontage for that? { I MR. HOARD: We didn' t know the exact frontage for that. Do you know !the exact footage of your frontage? ! lIMR. WALDSTEIN: 30 feet - that would be 45 square feet then. �iCHAIRMAN MARTIN: 45 square feet then is what the ordinance would i I hallow, right? I! IMR. HOARD: Yes . 1 11MR.; s GUTTMAN: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, we have a picture ! 11of the mural which we would like to submit. IICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Can this be part of the permanent record of the I� ! ' case? ; i SMR. GUTTMAN: Yes . ! (CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Thank you. IMR. GUTTMAN: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, my name is Charleo ! I Guttman, I'm representing the Ithaca Food Coop. It has its princip4l place of business at 140 W. State Street and is also operating a store at 213 Fifth Street. The building at Fifth Street is the one Iin question.. The building is owned by Mr. Vincent Giordano. Mr. I I 1 Giordano is here presently, he has also signed the owner 's authori- I �Ization which I( just submitted. With me is Steven Waldstein, a (member of the Food Coop. who resides at 1033 Danby Road in Ithaca. '!CHAIRMAN MARTIN: The sign we are talking about the mural - is th I I ! mural that is already up so that we are not talking about something' II gi I! ! - 17 - ii {i ,Jin addition to what we can all see in this picture or right there . I; MR. GUTTMAN: Yes - that is correct. iCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright. �iMR. GUTTMAN: The first point we would like to make is that the sig$ ior mural - we better call it a mural and we believe that, at leash 111in spirit - it is not really designed to be covered by the sign or- f. li i1dinance. The sign ordinance we believe is primarily designed to li restrict advertising and as can be seen from that only a small part; 'lof that even mentions the name of the food coop. 111CHAIRblAN MARTIN: Well, but suppose it were somebody drinking a huge 'Ibottle of coca cola? I suppose we would call it a sign wouldn' t we for a gigantic pizza? iMR. GUTTMAN: Well, the point is that this is designed primarily as! ,fan artistic expression. ;CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Well, Coca Cola might maintain the same. ;i IMR. GUTTMAN: The other distinction is that the Ithaca Real Food jCoop. is not open to the general public, it only does business with members of the Coop. therefore the question of advertising is some-' iwhat distinct - is that we are not advertising to the general public - IE 11only people who are allowed to shop there are members of the Food ,i I i I!Coop. 1. (CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Is it hard to become a member or is one signed up !the moment one. . . . I i iIMR. GUTTMAN: One signs up - it also is a work . . . it is a membership fee and there is a work requirement, depending on what part of the i s Food Coop. - whether you want to be in the total food coop - whethef jjyou want to be in the total food coop. or only in the grains part. A IThe work requirement would be distinguished but there is a work re- ' quirement of every member. Therefore you can just sign up - you 'have to work for the food coop. also. i 11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright. i�R. GUTTMAN: The other question in terms of advertising is that I „ !think this building is located in a somewhat unique spot. It is ons ii 1, .essentially a dead end street. The sign cannot be seen from any i fi u �i l� - 18 - +i road except for route 13 and then only if you are traveling in a i� lnortherly direction for just a few seconds as you go by. It is in 1' iia commercial district. The commercial area is comprised of a dairy! i next door and there is a continuation of the cinder block building.; I' I do not believe, therefore, that it would detract in any way from lithe aesthetics of the neighborhood. On the contrary, I believe thalt 'i lit enhances the aesthetics and if anything would go along with the ,spirit of Chapter 34 of the Municipal Code in that it may potentially jincrease the building values and create a more attractive economic Band business climate in the area. In terms of the question . . . 11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: On the other hand the ordinance does not put us .i lin the business of deciding between pretty and non-pretty signs. SMR. GUTTMAN: Well the intent of Chapter 34 and I quote from the (ordinance is to improve communications within the community to ;protect property values , to create a more attractive economic and i business climate, enhance and protect the physical appearance of R 11the community. . . . �ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: The means of doing that, of course, is to set vara pious size limitations and location limitations and limitations on 1 I�YPes of devices for signs rather than setting this Board u for g g P I�some other body to decide on aesthetic grounds between signs. R. GUTTMAN: Right, but since one of the intents of the ordinance tas to protect the physical appearance of the community I feel the 1poard would be justified in distinguishing between the sign which would improve the physical appearance and something which would ob- j I�iously detract from it. In terms of the point that the sign is up,' ;�he Food Coop. was originally advised we originally consulted the ' Is ' f�ity Planning Department you notice, read the end of the ordinance it `which gives the maximum and at that point we were told that that �l ould be the size that would be allowed and the Food Coop. acted, 1 j ased on that advice which we later checked out and found that they ! Cad not read it carefully. That was why the sign was put up. HAIRMAN MARTIN: You were told you could you understood that youl ,i mould put a sign up of 250 square feet? i it �I i i 19 - j� i �4R. GUTTMAN: Yes . HAIRMAN MARTIN: But we are now talking about one of 420 square Feet? NR. GUTTMAN: No, I think that was when we applied for the variance ! 1rhat was the maximum that we would be allowed. The sign is con- �siderably - I believe it is less than 250. ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Is that right? I�R. WALDSTEIN: It is less and also we were advised that we could I lave a sign up to 30 ' x 50 ' by City Planning. )i �R. GUTTMAN : This sign is quite a bit less than 250 square feet. i, �� HAIRMAN MARTIN: This one that we 've seen the picture of? Now, hat' s counting how much of that is sign - just the lettering or th� pictures as well? 1�R. GUTTMAN: The lettering and the pictures.. i !'CHAIRMAN MARTIN: The letters and the pictures. �kR. GUTTMAN: We are counting that as a rectangle including every-- I` 11thing where there is lettering or pictures . �ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: That totals how much? R. GUTTMAN: I don' t have the exact figure but I know that is con- ' i1siderably less than 250. In terms of a scale drawing this door in Hthe picture is approximately a little over 6 ' high, You can see �1from that - is considerably less than 250 square feet. HCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay. Are there questions from members of the Board? R. GASTEIGER: Could you comment on why a somewhat implied private I ,organization really needs a sign? i R. GUTTMAN: Okay, one of the problems was when we rented the building the building needed a paint job anyway and it was thoughi - !simply to make the building more attractive this would be done to is 'give people as they went into the building a good feeling - this wa� 1 � an attractive place to shop and that was the purpose of it. CHAIRMAN MARTIN: What would be the hardship in retaining the mural! Abut getting the words out of there? NIR. GUTTMAN: Okay. First of all there are two problems. One, as 3J 1 Ili � Ik �i - 20 - );you will note from the picture, the words are blended in with the Brest of the painting. CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Right. ,MR. GUTTMAN: To do that we would - we spoke to people who have don,6 the painting originally and they said it would be almost a near ,Iimpossibility they would have to essentially- redo almost the whol 31sign. I think also that it can be noted from the picture is what `!the Planning and Development Board I believe originally recommended) Iwas the retention of the sign but the elimination of all words ex- i sept for Ithaca Real Food Coop. There is , I think you can note from 1the picture, a distinction in the colors of the words . The words i i `IIthaca Real Food Coop. , which I believe could very easily be called; advertising do stand out. The other words , I believe tend to blend into the background much more so. ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Now, if I heard Mr. Hoard correctly, you are also! 'asking for a sign that we don' t see in addition to that mural? IIMR. GUTTMAN: I believe on the other sign there was not a conflict 11with the zoning ordinance. I� IIMR. WALDSTEIN: Right. We are also asking for a sign approximatelyi 'I II13 feet by 5 feet that Mr. Hoard said there was no problem with that! I ;lit was in compliance with the ordinance . Ii j;MR. HOARD: That is correct. The reason why they are both listed is i1 11because we add the signs together to figure total signage allowable!. li IMR. WALDSTEIN: Right. i (CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Where will this other sign go and is one way to !Ideal with the problem that now exists to allow you to keep what you've I I j`got but not put up that 3 x 5 sign? i MR. GUTTMAN: The other sign is at the corner of Fifth Street and !1 ilHancock Street. This building is located on Fifth Street , which is1 doff Hancock. The other sign is simply a directional sign so that someone driving down Hancock will know where to turn to get to the building. Without that sign we don't know if anyone could find the Ifbuilding. This sign will not really be seen by anyone until they have �I Tactually gotten to the building. s I I � j 21 fy � fjCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Or people traveling along Route 13. !MR. GUTTMAN: Right. In terms of people traveling along Route 13, 3 �I know from my own experience if you are traveling in a southerly lIdirection, you don' t see it at all. If you are traveling in a ►northerly direction, and you are looking for it you can see it for j ;!one or two seconds. 11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Questions from members of the Board? i fIDR. GREENBERG: And you can' t read the lettering when you are ( traveling . . . . ' MR. GUTTMAN: No, at least I haven' t been able to . . . 4 �ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: It' s a blur. jMR. GASTEIGER: Are there neighbors who can see it and read it? !I MR. GUTTMAN: I do not believe there are any residential buildings (which can see the sign, I 'm not positive of that but I do not be �,lieve so. j MR. WALDSTEIN: I 've checked it out there aren' t any. MR. GUTTMAN: As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure if there is jjany one who is in an inter-commercial building who could even see i �jthe sign. This is the building encompasses three units this is the last unit farthest away from Hancock Street and it is essentially 'the end of the dead end. CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Further questions? Is there anything that you want Elito add? Is there anyone else who would like to be heard in favor of I' (,the requested variance to the sign ordinance? ' a i MR, GIORDANO: I 'm Vincent Giordano, president of V. Giordano Con- I, Instruction Supply Corp. that owns this building. I do not own it ! i personally. Actually, when these young people came to me and wanted Ito rent the space, I didn' t want to rent to them. When the person ii 1who occupies the same space next to them came to rent that space, I w didn' t want to rent to them either but the building was empty - - its the building at the end of Fifth Street that the Stereo Shack moved! �jout of and the first person that came along, - and the space was I rented by a real estate agent while I was out of the country - was 11the Blue Angel, which is a restaurant/bar facility. I was very j j I it i - 22 - i4 I �I I �i 1jnhappy with it when I came back to Ithaca and found that it was 11rented and I did everything I could to stop it. In the first place ilbecause this area was all one store one great big store and she I J� anted the aluminum door and she gave these boys the overhead door 11or as it worked out in the end, because she only wanted a part of I 11the space. Actually the front of that building for the business j'that governs the size of the sign, I would classify as the whole i 1�building which is 80 ' across by 15 ' high. This was what was occupi�d i �by Stereo Shack, this is what is occupied by two tenants enjoying i j the same space now which the Blue Angel has a sign about a foot higt and about three feet long and that 's all they have there is the words !Blue Angel, on the complete identity for the size of that building, ] So she is willing - the gal that runs that to let these people enjoy the rest of that frontage in relationship to the size of them mural that they painted. It would make a difference in the square �Ifootage. CHAIRMAN 14IARTI`N: Alright, you are asking us to take the building leas a whole and subtract this other sign and come up with a balance 11for the Food Coop. ? IIR. GIORDANO: Correct and she has got all the signs that she wants I i 11I am sure , because of the nature of the business , but when I went by and saw the mural painted on the building I was kind of upset. ]didn' t know it was being painted on, - I didn' t realize they were j i ( asking for a sign variance or wanted to put up a sign. The sign onj { Fifth Street is needed for identity because no one could find that. 7. I IThe Stereo Shack did have one out there - the same size, which they' Ijremoved. The I. C. S. Press had one out there the same size which thoy 'need to direct people back in to the Fifth Street. I see nothing iiwrong with the street sign as far as landlord is concerned. I went' i' by one day and saw the mural and didn' t realize what they were ]!doing - it looked very nice. They did paint the building - we had i !!let it go. They did paint the building cream color on that side j' �jfrom the way the Stereo Shack had left it. They had painted this j ! i i 23 - 'land it looked very nice. It actually improved the corner of the I� ! Ilbuilding and you can' t see it anywhere except going up Route 13. Ii i 'don't really know why they wanted it but it ' s there and it does look I�nice and has improved the appearance of my building so I 'm not aga*st i it, I am for it. Like I said when they first came in and asked for Ia lease I wasn' t too enthused about renting the space because I If ldidn' t understand what Real Food Coop. was . But I since have joineld, ; I 've gone in there and bought my grains to bake the bread, I 've gone in and bought some nuts it' s a very, very nice thing that they are doing for their group members , selling these health foods. I 've i E never seen it over-crowded, I 've never seen over one or two people lin there at a time but they have a steady flor on and off of I gues about 1, 200 members is that right? These people have done every 4thing that they told me that they would do and have been excellent l tenants for the four or five months - I haven't had one iota of jtrouble they've been A number one tenants. They have a fire wall between the two areas which was inspected by the Building Commissioner They had brought their part up to code completely and it was inspected (lby the Building Commissioner and they've done everything that they said the would do and the have done it ver well . So this I will l Y y y �Isay, and I am very happy to have them as my tenants now. CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Any Questions from members of the Board? Is therje anyone else who would like to be heard on this case, first anyone 'else who would like to be heard in favor of the requested sign i variance? Is there anyone who would like to be heard in opposition? IMRS. JACKSON: My name is Velma Jackson, I live at 612 Hancock Stre6t. (1I1m here because of the sign variance I 'm not opposed to the mural Ii Inas it stands now but I am opposed to any other sign that might be 'erected either over the building, out from the building or up on the j'corner of Hancock and Fifth Street. I don' t know if any of you ares f (familiar with the 200 block of Fifth Street, but I've lived there 01 iay life, which is over 25 years , and that has never been paved - itks o nothing but a driveway, it 's gravel , a couple years ago I got the li l+'.city to put some oil on it. Since all of these businesses are down ;there , the Ithaca Food Coop. is now the sixth business in a congested i� i I! I - 24 - ''area. There ' s barely room enough to park, all the cars - both foot, 11bicycle and automobile traffic over this unimproved road just churn 1up all the gravel, the dust, the whole bit - we don' t need it down 11there. There' s not even a stop sign at the corner where Fifth come I jout on Hancock. Cars come off that area of the street right on to I EHancock - they don' t stop at all . There 's going to be an accident one of these days there hasn' t been yet. So I say a sign, other I !than the mural , I am protesting any other sign other than the mural We don' t need it. ! 1CHAIRMAN MARTIN: The theory of focusing on an additional sign is j `that it might bring more people there? ! 61MRS. JACKSON: Right. i .;CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Or that it somehow . . . _ j1MRS. JACKSON: Apparently it is very easy to become a member and thgy have 1, 200 members already. We have noticed an increased amount ofl ! (`traffic in this already congested area. j ,CHAIRMAN MARTIN: You have, you say? MRS. JACKSON: We have. �ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: And your fear would be that the traffic would be- j'come even heavier if there were an identity sign out there at the j ! corner? RS. JACKSON: Right . I 'm not opposed to the mural , I think it nhances the building but any other signs I am opposed to. Now if r �he city would get down to business and pave the street like they Ishould do, which they have never done - they've never made a comple e I�street out of it, then why not? They could have all the signs they i want, I don' t care, but I am opposed to any larger sign at this tim$ �! ver an unimproved area. R. GASTEIGER: What is the density of the housing there on Fifth s � treet? i CORS. JACKSON: Fifth Street? There 's the housing project down them - �l '� he Hancock Street Housing project. But there is many private home$ 14111 down there ai li I! i ! i I ftlt 16 25 - I i ;`CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Any other questions from members of the Board? Thank you Mrs . Jackson. Is there anyone else who would like to be li I heard in opposition to the variance? Seeing none, then that con- jcludes this public part of our meeting. The Board . . . i� '1MR. GUTTMAN: May I just make one statement with regard to two item !;which-were just brought up? With regard to the street, we are goin 6to petition the city to include that street. And with regard to fIthe housing density, I think it may be easy to clarify. On the soufh llof Hancock Street is the Ithaca Housing Authority. On the north s,side of Hancock Street, on Fifth Street, north of Hancock, which iso here this building is located, there is no residential units, only! businesses on that side . So on this block of Fifth Street it is solely commercial. I, ! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Right, but she was speaking of the block of Fifth! i ,i I ! Street that was the other direction, south. Yes - you have somethi#g? i (Would you come forward and identify yourself? ! kR. HEINZ : My name is Steven Heinz. I am not asking any questions �Or having any input on the last case. I was wondering if there was llanother case on a Giles Street variance that I might have been mis4ng !�in the beginning of the meeting. �HAIRMAN MARTIN: My understanding is that these are the only two i ases on our agenda this evening, so that I . . . I �R. HEINZ : Well, I was asked to attend this meeting in lieu of Joh cLean who had asked for a variance on 109 Giles Street and I had I 'imagined it was coming before the Board. If there isn' t, I ' ll have i 1� o take it up with him, outside. �R. HOARD: No he has not reapplied. He originally applied for a to l�rariance - an exception to the moratorium, which expired some month �go and then and the property involves an area variance and he wa , (told that he had to apply for the area variance and he 's never fillod , out the new appeal form. Even though, somehow, it went through the ; Planning Board. . . ��R. HEINZ : Yes, I was called and asked to appear at that meeting a 'd }! i it i ii i !i fi li j - 26 - i 1they said well appear at the meeting two weeks hence of this Board. ; 11MR. HOARD: Right. There has been no application to this Board. I !CHAIRMAN MARTIN: So your message for him should be that if he want's Ila variance he has to do something about it. E MR. HEINZ : Do something about it. Thank you very much. ,ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright. We will now go into executive session, 11 i asking those of you out there to leave the room and those of you whoj want to stay around, we will reconvene in public session in awhile and announce the results . �i i ° i� I ' 1 1 � 'j�E i� �i i �i l I! +, 1 I► i! I j i+ i it 1 I i I' a �I Ii i tE I i - 27 - BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS CITY OF ITHACA ! _'. SEPTEMBER 12 , 1977- i I' EXECUTIVE SESSION I i i ( APPEAL NO. 9-2-77 : ,CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I move that a sign variance be granted the I Ithaca Real Food Cooperative as follows ; That they be permitted to leave the sign I� I presently painted on the exterior of the buil.- !! ing at 213 Fifth Street on condition that the �i bring that sign into conformity with the sign I� ordinance by 8/31/79 and on the further condi- tion that the sign not be repainted or restored in the meantime. No variance for an additional detached sign I !� is granted. 1�DR. GREENBERG: I second the motion. FINDINGS OF FACT: 1 . While the pictures and words clearly con41 stitute a sign as defined in the Ithaca Ordinance, they cover all together some-, I f� what less than 100 square feet. The area! is an area of commerce and signs , i �i 2 . There is some indication that the sign I was painted with a misunderstanding about � e the requirements of the ordinance which may have been in part the responsibility f of the City Department of Planning and ! Development. i f 3. And there is further fact that the sign does not represent an appeal to the gener�l I buying public. I OTE: YES S; NO 1 . I� i l f. I; i - 28 - i IIIII , Barbara Ruane, Do Certify that I took the minutes of the Board �i Iof Zoning Appeals , City of Ithaca, in the matters of Appeals I' ; Numbered 1162 and 9-2-77, on September 12, 1977 at City Hall, City ! hof Ithaca, New York' that I have transcribed same, and the fore- 1going is a true copy of the transcript of the minutes of the meetin� !land the Executive Session of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of !Ithaca, on the above date, and the whole thereof to the best of my j , liability. ! i I� I! it Barbara C. Ruane Recording Secretary �i 6� Ij f' I i i i Sworn to before me this i 3 day of 1977. f Notary Public � T RTT T6�17T T3�ln vy ly i of New York ( < ins County _.,,ici� ?Q, 19�$ i i e ; !