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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1977-04-04 f� �i ^' TABLE OF CONTENTS i j3 I ff j ':!MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, ITHACA, INEW YORK - April 4, 1977 'I Page =i ; Appeal No. 1151 Dorothy B. Garner (withdrawn) 2 411 South Plain Street i ,!Appeal No. 1153 James & Emma Lou Colbert 2 527 N. Aurora Street i J Appeal No. 4-1 .77 Gulf Oil Company 9 302 W. Seneca & Albany ;Appeal No. 1153 Executive Session 19 { c i; ';!Appeal No. 4-1-77 Executive Session 20 it 1 jCertification of Recording Secretary 21 i i! if s is I j Ii s� l ;f i �j i it i li i I! if ij I i i( a. i i; i Ei Z I� I II 1 ii fl ' it V :! V �I ; 4` I BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, CITY OF ITHACA CITY HALL, ITHACA, NEW YORK APRIL 4, 1977 I 't A regular meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of �6 ;, Ithaca, was held in the Common Council Chambers , Ithaca, New York, ! ;ion April 4, 1977. `1PRESENT: C, Murray VanMarter Gregory Kasprzak Martin Greenberg Judith Maxwell Thomas D. Hoard, Bldg. Commissioneir F Secretary Barbara Ruane, Recording Secretary., i . ABSENT: Chairman Peter Martin s� Edgar Gasteiger 1sSecretary Hoard opened the meeting with a call to elect a tem- 11porary chairman in the absence of Chairman Peter Martin. Two nominations were heard from the floor: Murray VanMarter and I �lGregory Kasprzak. Murray VanMarter was elected Chairman for this !, evening by by unanimous vote. IlChairman VanMarter opened the meeting listing members of the Board L ! 11present . The Zoning Board operates under the provisions of the E 1i Ithaca City Charter and the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, Our procedure' is a fairly simple and straight-forward one, We ask those present-;, ding appeals to speak in order of the appeal. Those presenting the 11appeal speak first and the others present wishing to speak in favor! �of the requested variance or interpretation speak, and then those j ! Ithat are opposed. Our proceedings aren't governed by strict rules { of evidence, but we do ask that all those who speak, come forward, ;!identify themself by name and address but limit their remarks to th6 .issues that are before the Board. In order to grant a variance, four ,,affirmative votes are required, not only under our ordinance but !i !funder state law. Since there are, in this case, two members of the; s; Board absent, that means that a unanimous decision would be re 3jquired in order to grant the variance. We mention this to you so ! that you will understand clearly that there may be- some percentage liof where votes are not unanimous . In any case, four affirmative i ;votes pass on a case. Further, for your convenience of time, and i I! R - 2 - I i! Z !j :! that of the Board, if you care to present this under these circum- !; stances this is done without prejudice. The testimony is taken, ; the evidence is heard - you can present anything you care to ' jpresent. If it should happen that the decision is unfavorable to :' the applicant, you can return at a time when the full Board is herE . Ois entirely proper to hear the case with four members but the ; burden of the applicant is , in this case, that it would require j tonight, all four to have an affirmative vote. If there are no questions we will proceed with the first case. l� Secretary Hoard announced the first case to be heard. I IAPPEAL 1151 : Appeal of Dorothy B. Garner for an area variance and an exemption from the moratorium has been withdrawn by the appellant as of thi !� afternoon. She found someone to rent the !I property under the present zoning allowances there, 1The first case that we will hear tonight is: it APPEAL 1153: Appeal of James and Emma Lou Colbert for �( variance under Section 30. 25, Columns 4, 10, 11, 12 , 13 and 14 (minimum yard and off-street parking requirements) and for an exemption �! from Section 30. 59 (Temporary Moratorium) to convert what was formerly a store in the pre- I mises at 527 North Aurora Street to an apart- ment. The building will then become a three- family dwelling, a use permitted in the R-3 I zone where the property is located. I' `CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Jim, would you like to come forward and des- cribe what you would like to offer for the Board to hear? I I JAMES COLBERT: My name is Jim Colbert and I live at 527 N. Aurora Street. We've lived there since 1950 and since 1937 I 've had a store there and before that I was with the Market Basket from 1933 F well no from 1937 we had a store from 1943. Now this moratorium on Ithe building we're contemplating, we're not quite sure what to do' jyet because costs property to expand property nowadays the I � (cost of doing so is very very much out of line. So we want to do (it if we feel like its feasible or if its the best use to put of the building. We've had some inquiries about the building and it seems that if Miss Sweet is to be expelled, so to speak - if we go 11downstairs by not giving her a variance so she can stay until shei ii r ii i� 1# ii # 3 I� of !passes on or until she doesn' t want to remain there any longer i' 11that will have some bearing on whether we 're going to make an apart it i; '1ment downstairs. As it is now, my wife has had several heart # jattacks and some severe angina spells and the stairs are just a Hlittle too much for her, that' s one reason why we want to either M ,I ;make a three-room apartment downstairs or move into an apartment i nand since this moratorium on building is going to be over in two �{ I Ijmonths, it will be just about that long before we''ll ever get �istarted, if we are going to get started at all. It would be a little more optimistic if we knew that we could do something if we if ,so desired to do it. We hate to leave the neighborhood but we P Icertainly don't want to put ourselves back of the eight-ball with a of of expenses at our age, which isn't so old but we 're not gettin zany younger. Now is there any questions? I don't want to make a 11ardship on anybody living in the neighborhood we've been good j 1peighbors and there is good neighbors down there and we want to !) emain so, whatever happens. hairman VanMarter: Jim, would you please describe what there is here at the present time, floor by floor? IR. COLBERT: Well, on the second floor where we live there is five rooms and a bath and on the first floor where the old store used toi # e, I have converted that into a game room and library so to speak, i or anybody that wants to use it free gratis and then there is a itchenette apartment or efficiency apartment that Miss Sweet has Lad since she - for 25 years and I think she is about a year older han I am - I think she must be 72 and she doesn't want to move and e don' t want to see her move. Now is there any questions from nybody? HAIRMAN VAN MARTER: You mentioned an inquiry, Jim you've had inquiries for the use of the store for something other than a living nit? . COLBERT: Yes. tAIRMAN VAN MARTER: What would that be perhaps? COLBERT: Well now there has been an architect wanting to live E) # 1 ;i i t _ 4 ;!upstairs and have his office downstairs. That 's what a real estate] 1 l!dealer told me. And then several doctors have voiced their opinion '!about wanting to live there and have their offices there and that R !may be the best use because Miss Sweet could stay then since there ;would be two apartments in the house and the property together with' �ja business . As I understand it whoever has it for a business must i `;live there. !!CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: That would apply, I believe, to the architect !! 1 lion account of the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance relating to medical j "facility, as this Board understands it, the medical facility would ibe permitted without the doctor being in residence there, So in i ' the case of the architect, you would have to go through the motion jor he somebody would have to apply and go through the request fort i! i !la variance in the case of the architect ' s office or a business ! ,'office. And in the case of a doctor's office or other medical faci - �jity, it could be done without an application such as this. 3 i�R. COLBERT: Well that is good to know. We were a little appre ensive on these . . . HAIRMAN VAN MARTER: I think that is correct, Tom, right? ,j iIR. HOARD: Excuse me, it could be a home occupation if the archi- Il j {� ect lived on the premises. It i, CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Excuse me, that is correct. In that case he !!1 4s limited by ten or twelve well defined measurements - far better �efined than any other portion of the ordinance. And that would j�imit to no more than two employees outside, etc. Part of this I request, Jim, for the ordinance would relate to the requirement that i ou show how this property does vary from others in the district. have not checked all the columns listed in the chart or the zoning �brdinance but there are four or five things that it relates to and You can take them in any order that you want but I imagine it relates o lot coverage, front yard, side yard, off-street parking, and theslle I Inds of things. Would you like to try to respond to any or all of i! hese in some kind of order? I I ! �i i 1� Ii ! MR. COLBERT: Well , I 'm not very much versed on the size of the 11property. It covers almost the entire lot. I think on the south- " side there is about 8 feet to thero ert line of the other tenant P P Y l� to the south of us. 1, HCHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: And to the east that would be around on Mar- 1 11shall - that's quite close to JiMR. COLBERT: The east that 's practically on the line. ,1 CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Could you tell us if there is other property available - land that is not being used, that might be available 9 ;�to improve this situation? 11MR. COLBERT: I don't know of a thing. One party that checked with i j�me about it if it comes to cars parking - he thought he could buy J`a garage and he is inquiring as to that. But we aren't interested II I yat this time, only for our use and also the price of remodeling is join the five figures and it seems like it' s going to be. s !CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Is there any parking on the lot for vehicles ff the street? R. COLBERT: Well , there is one garage there, on the first floor nd Miss Sweet, of course, doesn' t have a car. I HAIRMAN VAN MARTER: The apartment on the second floor is one iving unit - occupant designed for one family? � I R. COLBERT: Yes, that is where we live. ! HAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Okay and what you would propose on the first I loor and what is now what was the space for the store would be ne living unit? R. COLBERT: Yes , one living unit, as I said here. A living room ,,, nd a kitchen, bedroom and at and then the - that takes just over alf the space then the other half for a library and a game room ' hich the basement isn't suitable for anything like that, a i ameroom, so we want to use that space - you might say it is for our wn use and we will share it with the neighborhood. HAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Any other questions? R. KASPRZAK: For me you clarified everything there was to clarify. IMA IRMAN VAN MARTER: Could you describe something, Jim, that we i j if !! i f� 6 - I I i1could call a special condition that make the regulations impossible i! Tito comply with? You've described the land thing_ �I '!MR. COLBERT: Well, if we should go through with this, the move E; ;(downstairs, the people upstairs, of course, would have to have off- I 1street parking, unless there is a garage for rent. And, of course, ;1 jlmost folks have two cars, nowadays, and it might end up with two i Icars and that 's an item in that area because on the east side of I �N. Aurora Street there' s no parking permitted at all. CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Sit each alternate night those people who park on one side have to find some other street, is that the way it works? MR. COLBERT: Yes, that's right. We are very fortunate in that (neighborhood to have a lane or you might call it an alley going froin Farm Street to Yates Street and there are garages on both sides of I that lane just about all the way down through there. That takes care of a lot of the pressure that would be applied on the side streets. CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Could you give us any word that might indicat� that if this were granted it would observe the spirit of the ordi- ance? I R. COLBERT: I can' t think of a thing right now unless there is l�someone here that might want to suggest something that I don't at I lithe moment recall. We maintain if we should go down and we will be 1very careful about the tenants we have for upstairs. There is a su ((ceiling about 18" from the floor down to the ceiling in the store so there is a dead air space there that keeps the noise from going �iit retains it a little bit you know like a floor between. I HAIRMAN VAN MARTER: There is no third floor or attic space that ' s sed? R. COLBERT: No. There is a spring that comes down from the hill I ast Hill and it sort of in real wet weather, the water will �egin in the cellar about 8" of water and it soon goes out though �ISo therefore we don' t use it at all. We did have some compressors n some cinder blocks when we had the store, It served the purpose fright. Years ago, the people who built the store - ' it s 99 years ! sa f! 7 i r r i fold - and the people who built the store lived to the east of us. iThatts why the I think the bound or the building was put so close .,to their lot was because they were the ones who designed the store ; '!before the - and that' s not permitted now, as you know, having a i Hbuilding so close. 4 ;,CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Okay, thank you .Tim. No other comments from !Board members? 1,MR. KASPRZAK: I have a small comment Mr. Colbert. Any chance that s 1you can assure us. that if the conversion occurs to the three apart-I Iments , that part of the apartment you will rent a garage from some-I' `body to house at least one car if its a two-car family? Is it 1! ;possible for you to make that commitment? 11MR. COLBERT: Well , I don' t see how I could, Now Mr. Dixon, he I ;i ;dives next door, Whenever he has a garage for rent he usually tell ii jme and I either put a sign up or have been in the past when I had lithe store, he would come in and tell me and there wasn't any troubl� at all in renting the garage. He has four of them I think. Then, j ,there is ever so many garages around there. And right across the ,street, Mrs. Snyder, she lives across from Jim McCarthy there is !,Icar port, since her husband died - he was about 86 when he died - ! (land that could be available I would think for someone if its got l Idown to the place where parking was crowded. No I dontt think I !would want to guarantee that because I couldntt follow through with i� I j�MR. KASPRZAK: Okay, thank you. fI i�CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Oka thank 1 Okay, you Jim. . ! R. COLBERT: You' re welcome. Thank you too. Do T have to wait or{ can I go? ICHAIRMAN VAN' MARTER: You do not have to, you are allowed to afterl while after the cases are heard, we ask that the people leave so that the Board can , ; go into executive session. If you don't care to � f wait I 'm sure Mr. Hoard will get word to you in the morning. R. COLBERT: Alright. I want to get this straight, too, now. it 1 i i r! ! f� g _ f 1 � 11has to take a 100% vote here tonight. i� ! CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Tonight the way the Board is constituted of four it takes all four as affirmative in order for it to be grantedj. ii (MR. COLBERT: And when is the next meeting? CHAIRMAN 'V'AN MARTER: It normally would be scheduled the first o Monday of each month if we have cases, if it is necessary that a case be reheard everything that has been presented this evening, ifl I k �Eyou choose, can become part of that hearing. There will be testi- 'Imony of this and the words will be just the way they were spoken tonight. That ' s all written up. Those who were not here would review that and then they would also ask what questions they might �ihave at that time or if you had additional information, you could jpresent it. ! ! IMR. COLBERT: Alright sounds fair, ' !CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Each one of those is an "if" Jim. 1MR. COLBERT: Okay, I' ll see you later. Thank you very much, CHAIRMAN 'VAN MARTER: Thank you, Are there any present this `Woulevening who would like to speak in favor of this application? d you like to come forward lease, Y P 1HELEN DIXON: My name is Helen Dixon and I live at 601 N. Aurora i !;Street which is across the street from ,Timmy and my husband and I i 'thought that we should come here tonight because well, the house I 11is right across the street and let' s see we have lived there for r about six years . When we bought our house he had a store there and! I jwe looked it over and it was attractive so we bought our house and 4 1Iwe just feel that whatever Jimmy does will not take from the apart- ! ;merit that he will keep it just as nice as it is now, His apart- , i ent is one of the most attractive I have every seen and I am sure I ;that whatever he does downstairs will be the same. They are excel- I i lent neighbors - the only thing is the parking which is kind of a roblem in our neighborhood but hopefully whoever does live there ` ,�igt rent a garage hin the neighborhood but we did feel that we i 1�hould come and maybe approve of what he wants to do. i !CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Thank you very much,. Anyone here tonight whol, II F I� I I I i ;I 9 - j ' would care to speak in opposition to this application? None ap- i pearing, we will go to the next case. ,1MR. HOARD: We do have a letter. j j� CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: This is addressed to Tom Hoard, Board of i E Il Zoning Appeals, 108 East Green Street , Ithaca, New York: "Dear Sir; i� "Relative to the matter of the appeal of James Colbert at 527 Nort I I Aurora Street I would like to go on record as having no objections ) �frelative to his proposed alterations . II "While it may be irrelevant I have known Mr. Colbert for many years` I and know that any move he would make would be for the betterment of the area. " ! i l (Very truly yours , /s/ Richard L. Pollock Mr. Hoard announced the next case to be heard: IiAPPEAL 4-1-77 : Appeal of John T. Pine, representing the Gulf Oil Company for a variance from Section 6A-1 of the sign ordinance to erect a sign pylon with a total sign area of 48. 3 square feet for each of the two sides of the sign at the ser- vice station at 302 W. Seneca and Albany Stree in an R-3 zone. The sign ordinance limits signs in an R-3 zone to a maximum area of five is square feet. j� IMR. HOARD: Mr. Pine is here to represent the appeal . 1f CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Would you like to come forward Mr. Pine? �a Thank you. 1 JOHN T. PINE : Mr. Chairman, Board members , as Tom read out, I am here to request a variance for our sign for our new project at 302 II1W. Seneca and my name is John Pine, I represent the Gulf Oil Corp. lat 1001 N. Clinton Street in Syracuse, New York. As you know, as i s ' Tom read out , the present zoning for this particular location is 5 square foot and the fact that we are in a residential section ! e at Gulf realized a couple years ago that we have a problem with Ilsigns at service stations no matter where they are and have come up I (with, what we feel , is a package we could use throughout the north- 1 . least, which involves the package T d like to put in here at Ithaca. It 's two signs in essence.. It' s our Gulf disc which is recognized i� !, I •1 E� ii - 10 - i !, throughout the world. It' s a standard 6 foot disc and underneath E I Hthat we put this self serve price sign which is large enough that lithe public can recognize what product we have and how much it would! 'cost without causing any hesitation on a customer' s part in that f r ethey can, if they so desire, they can see what our price is , and ! !fpull in and if they see what the price is they can pull out, as I f !}said with no hesitation and we feel it' s a nice clean, but not ;!overpowering sign and also allows us to do away with the unattrac- I I !tive A frame signs you see at locations throughout the country. i I 11We feel that they are a nuisance, they also block vision of children Ion bikes or tricycles, the wind blows them over, it makes it diffi-! i gcult to pile snow - this is why we came up with the sign that we are Basking for tonight. Like I said, it's out of the way, it 's clean abut in this case it is over your sign regulations for this particu-i Alar area. So with that in mind, this is what we would like to have;. ii � T brought with me for you people, in case you can' t remember what I Siwe are planning for this location. We have already started constru�- + tion for - it' ll give you an idea of the area - it 's a plot plan. It' ll give you an idea of the area that we are talking about where i� 1we would like to put this sign. Incidentally, knowing full well i I!that your sign ordinances are coming up for a change in 179 I be- ; 'llieve - we have taken that in mind and moved this sign back to what i� Ahose regulations will be then. In other words we have taken it !back 10 feet from each property line, Way back from the sidewalk ilso that it doesn' t overhang. So if you would like I ' ll show you I� t ! the plot plan where this sign will be. I sent a photograph of this; l�sign to give you a clear picture of what it would look like, This is the exact sign that we have at another location up in Syracuse. i .I (Mr. Pine pointed out different features of the sign as shown on th� '4 11plot plan and other blue prints which he spread out in front of the: I 1 ;,I Board members. ) I �i IMR. KASPRZAK: You are going to have only one .standard? 11MR. PINE : Yes one pole, As it stands now we have a neon sign j i !:here and we have another sign back here. Just this orange disc bac Pere ii s - I r! E !E here. We feel that one sign situated in the right place can do the ? whole thing. And, of course, it will not rotate. . . CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: For the purpose of the Minutes , lets just Mi !! enter that the location was described and at the present time there ;fare two signs of the size of the round disc one at the north endl ii Eof the lot . . . Mr. Pine if you would come to the mike for other I i questions . . . so the tape will pick it up, that would be helpful. i Ii MR. PINE: That`s all that I would have to say. CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Are there other signs presently on the building that will be preserved or will there be other signs on the building I itself? I MR. PINE: The signs that are on the building now will not be pre- served. There is one small sign on the new building. It is 13" ( high. It says "Gulf Self Service" . I also have a - there' s a i 4 ; ,picture of that in this package of drawings if you would like to j I take a look at it. It ' s really insignificant, CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: That occurs only on one side of the building, right? MR. PINE : That ' s right. CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Each of the signs that you propose are two- �Ifaced, is that correct? .iMR. PINE: Yes sir. 1 iCHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Okay and for the record we will repeat what I I !you said while you were at the table that these do not rotate. �MR. PINE: No sir, they do not. CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: They do not blink. i IMR. PINE : No sir. F CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: They do not flash. I 'IMR. PINE : No sir. �ICHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: They do not oscilate. 1 4 IMR. PINE: No sir. CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: They do not twinkle. R. PINE: No sir, They do nothing but there is a . . . 1 CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Those are the words that are in there r used i 11to be. i !II i� 12 - j i! '; MR. PINE: Okay - if you would like I can tell you what each sign 11involves. The smaller price sign; there are 6 - 4' florescent I ( tubes in it. In the 6' orange disc, there are 6 V and 4 3 ' �I I 'jflorescent tubes and as I said they do not twinkle, pulsate, they 11only light. If they start to pulsate then we have to start re- j1placing tubes - they're bad. 11MR. KASPRZAK: The 179 regulation or whatever you want to call it, !,will it require, I believe, that you not only relocate the sign i (differently then presently is required, but also the size would be ! ; different. How do youpropose to meet the ' 79 requirements within two years, in terms of size, of course. SMR. PINE: Well, this particular area, as you probably know better ( than I do I think the new regulation is for 5 square foot. This iso the variance that I am trying to that I'm trying to get a varianc Ifor. If I 'm not I 'm not sure but I think that in commercial areas in Ithaca the new regulation is 50 square foot, is that right i Tom? i R. HOARD: Yes, the problem here is that this particular gas sta- tion is in an R-3 zone and in an R-3 zone, the limit is 5 square eet per sign so he needs a .variance to get any kind of a sign arger than 5 square feet per sign. R. KASPRZAK: Yes , but I 'm talking about T79L, R. HOARD: Well, this would be a legal non-conforming use up to 17 nd then in 179 when all legal non-conforming uses are thrown out ou' d have to get another variance again - for the same sign. I me he rules really wont change that drastically but that 179 thing is really meant to cover any signs that exist now that are legal non. onforming under this ordinance. This will be the same ordinance - 79 but because this is in an R-3 zone it' ll be non-conforming then. R. KASPRZAK: Most likely it will be an R-3 zone still . . . i R. PINE : But, Tom, in 179 your 50 ' in a commercial area would re- ain? Is that right? I R. HOARD: Yes. S . PINE : Okay, so actually, sir, we are not asking for anything mote 1i13 1� 1, i f 13 _ i ( than what you would have in any normal commercial establishment, 'MR. KASPRZAK: But you're not in a commercial zone, that' s what. , . �i `MR. PINE: No sir, you are absolutely right - yes sir. ,' DR. GREENBERG: The signs that you have at present , you received a M j'•.variance for? ! MR. PINE: I can only assume that we have. The signs have been up i ;; long before I was ever in Syracuse which was eight years or so, so I imagine they go back ten fifteen years when the station was ;`.built. 4 !DR. GREENBERG: And they could remain as they are? ` I 1MR. HOARD: They could remain as grandfather legal non-conforming i 4 until 179 when they would be i 1MR. PINE: To tell you the truth we don' t like them. They are not Livery neat looking and this is why, of course, I 'm here to try to i 4 iclean it up a little. ,ICHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: We realize the sign ordinance is quite strin- ; gent. We do not have a series of reasonable questions to ask in i ;;relation to it, as we do with an area or a use variance. There are! , not measurements by which we attach some degree of non-conformity eR or some percentage of overage, It 's difficult for us to make this ; judgment - it 's also just as difficult for you to describe the dif- Iferences because the main thing here, as Greg has mentioned is that` it is the use itself is non-conforming it' s legal , it is in an 11R- 3 there have been somemoves in the past to consider that side hof Seneca as commercial and it has been rejected and as Greg has I limentioned, I don' t see anything in the future perhaps that might j luphold that change either. A relationship between these proposed sIsigns and the signs that exist. That might be a good question. Wei j ��have an existing Gulf sign that is round or oval or something. I !�R. PINE: Yes sir. CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: dust one? Or you did say two, excuse me. i R. PINE : Well we have two signs - one is one-half of what I am i J�sking for tonight. The other one is a neon sign with four letters ' - Andividual letters that say GULP which is quite large and bulky. I� �s also difficult to maintain and keep well lit and in working I H - 14 - H i i I .; order. But through the years I imagine it has done a good job, an i I snow I think it 's time to replace it if possible. i MR. KASPRZAK: This might be a naive question. What would you do ! ' if you had to stick to a 5 foot sign? Hoar would you resolve your 'problem? ' MR. PINE: I don't think we would have any choice but to take all i ;; the signs down. Now if that was the case and I had no way of getti g 11around it , no way of doing it, I think GULF would think very seriously 11 of cancelling the whole job because as it stands now we are in the i : }midst of modernizing that location in excess of $86,000. and if I ; GULF felt that they would be stuck with that sign 5 square foot - I; jthe amount of loss of business I am sure that they would seriously 31consider cancelling the job. But as is pointed out, we do have, ;under the grandfather clause, the right to keep the signage as we f 1, !'have now until 179 so I 've seen it happen many, many a time, and I II 'm sure you've read it in the paper about the number of stations f�being closed. With my experience in it, most of them have been be- Icause they are just not making any money and without signage our tp � 1business would drop down considerably. Now I 'm certainly not saying 1that we are going to close the place down and I should hope that it 11would never happen. But without the proper signage we are in i1serious trouble. I MR. KASPRZAK: Do you have any figures or indicators of some sort It ( that would relate to advertising to the amount of business that youl Is I lido? You have just alluded that if you didn't have the sign you 1 ;?would lose business. I 'm wondering how do you measure this sign 11relative to the amount of business . . . I JMR. PINE : Well, unfortunately, or fortunately, that end of the 1� 11business I am not experienced in. I 'm experienced really in main- : i �Itenance and construction - the engineering aspects. When it comes (Ito the type of business we get, how much we get, or how less we get=, 11fortunately it is somebody else' s ball game. I answered the one ;question due to . . . I can't help to get some experience being rightl Inext to these people, but I feel that I would be very unqualified I I i iito answer that question. I Ii �I 1! f ;''CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: There have been two or three things said abou s� ithe 179 regulations. His existing signs are legal and non-conformi g f , and can continue and without it, the T79 type of thing that we havel - I, I �jwhat is it , cessation? jiMR. HOARD: In ' 79, in either case, whether he keeps the present si n i! ig 'i!or he gets this new sign - in ' 79 to keep the signs he would have I !Ito come back for a variance. All non conforming signs will have to I �Icome down in 1979 unless they are successful in getting another � 4 i;variance. CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Whether they are legal non-conforming or E i` whether they have been arrived at by variance or whether they were arrived at before a sign ordinance. So itis really cessation. I MR. HOARD: Yes . CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Okay. Any More questions from the Board members? Let's go back over existing signs just a minute. Could! r i �we try to relate in square feet what does exist at the present time? We've talked about the signs - the Board members have the copy of ,those things which show square footage. My notes say that you are asking for a new 5 x 4 and a new 28 . 3 for a total of 48. 3. Can youl describe the three little words - 131' high letters? MR. PINE : The one sign that is there now _ it' s the orange disc I ! is 28. 3 square foot. The other neon sign is approximately 30 squar jfoot. I can't give you an exact figure on that because it, as far i LsGULF is concerned, it is a non-conforming sign. In essence, I ' have to be honest in saying, that the number of square footage of l sign that I 'm asking for now will be identical to what we already have. It' s just put together in a neater package, and we think mor functional. i R. GREENBERG: You have a price sign now a free standing sign with is price? CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: You mean the value? The value of the sign? i (PR. GREENBERG: No, no the price you bought you must instruc� he customer before he goes into the pumps what the price is . Do ou have a sign �M s� i� 3+ 16 - i IMR. PINE: No sir, I DR. GREENBERG: No, there 's nothing indicating what that is . i ! MR. PINE: I'm not sure I understand your question. ii DR. GREENBERG: Do you have any sign on the premises which indicatels ;! what the cost of the gasoline is at the moment? j i i : MR. PINE: Yes . I'm not positive but I 'm fairly sure there is a I; I price sign of some sort either on. top of the pump or tied on to '::lone of the island light poles. This is the kind of thing that I Hdon' t like. You have signs all over. A customer coming by - where! ,! does he look for a sign. While he is looking around for a sign he might get himself in trouble driving. This is why I like the one 1 relatively small sign right up on the pole so that everyone can seo it without a moments hesitation, But I think you are right, there ! is some type of price sign on the top of the pump or tied on one o� lithe light poles-. !! CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: No other services rendered. In other words, 3pump gas, sell a candy bar, soft drink something like that , i IMR. PINE: That' s right, CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Okay, but no car repair, no muffler changes , ' I Ino grease jobs? it 11MR. PINE : No sir, In fact, the bays will be boarded up, bricked i !' up and a board and batten material will be put on the front and i , shrubbery will be put all around the front where the bays were. So�, !root only will the service not be offered it will be impossible tol �I get . i i �lCHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Does the station control the tenant or does Iit is it a lease deal whereby the operator is on his own, on pay-1 Iment of a certain amount of rent or does the company retain control] I j lof what goes on? ! MR. PINE: It is what we call a company operated station, in that ! ewe hire an agency that hires and fires the attendant and controls ;! the housekeeping, etc, etc. They control the monies that come in !land send it to GULEIand whatever, It' s just an agency that works ;ion GULE' s behalf, for this location, I I� I f,f � - 17 - I l CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: But that in fact takes care of the policing ' and would control the addition of other posters and banners and , '' promotions and this kind of thing rather than an individual operator? i IMR, PINE: That 's right. GULF has complete control over any addi- ii ltional signage or policing, etc, Unfortunately or fortunately I i ` get involved with that myself, ! MR. HOARD: Haw would you or GULF feelabout it, if rather than �i ;] having a disc upon a tall pylon, you were required to have the i whole thing down low? ! MR. PINE : GULF would certainly go along with it, but I might sug- gest that one of the benefits to the sign being up on a 12 ' pole isI that it gives an allowance for clear visibility underneath the I i sign. When you are in a busy intersection like this, it' s nice to i have things up, so people can see around the corners. I 'd hate to have something down too low, although we have put them down so the first sign starts at 71 , which we are perfectly capable of doing I but I would suggest keeping it up at least to that 7 ' if not a ! little bit higher. The fact is, it really is to the benefit of GULF the lower it is. Because that way, it is right in the driver' s 1 vision. Most people aren't looking up for signs, they are looking 0 where they are supposed to be watching but, due to the visibility ok �itraffic we would like to keep it up high. One of the worst things that can happen to us is a prospective customer have an accident �Iright out front and, you know, that gives them a bad taste in their] mouth as far as GULF is concerned or ever pulling in there again, Now I can drop it down to 7 ' - start the first sign. In any way - whether it were 7 ' or 12 ' it would be below the 25' regulation that] ,you people have. CHAIRMAN VAN MARTER: Is it located so that if it were lower it would have to be protected from vehicles on your own lot? MR. PINE: No sir. It ' s right in the planting area, If you would ] request me to drop it down some, I would extend the planting area E out around it in order to protect it from winnabagos, or pick up ;trucks or what have you. � t j I� f 18 - i " ii (" ,j CHAIRMAN 'V'AN MARTER: Any further questions please? T don't have any I'm run out. Okay, thank you John, IIMR. PINE: Thank you. I E " fl i Ii i " I I) 1 I I ' i (i i I � i i, i. I sI l i - 19 - i BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS CITY OF ITUACA I APRIL 4, 1977 ' EXECUTIVE I V'E� SESSION ,3 I !;APPEAL NO. 1153 '!Moved by Dr. Greenberg: I move that this variance be granted. ; ;;Findings of Fact : 1 . According to the testimony the applicant indicated that there was no i land adjacent available in order to I i( reduce the deficiency in lot size. I 2, The proposal is for one living i' unit . i ii 3. There does exist and is used - one �I garage space off-street for the parking i1 of one car, 4. The applicant stated that parking in the area was definitely a problem but j perhaps less so due to available off- street parking on an alley which runs jl j through the center of this block and th next block north. j 11seconded by Ms. Maxwell : I second the motion. ! jVOTE: 4 Yes (Unanimous) j jp Variance granted. j i) I I� li i13 I` i� f� I of � ;I 20 - I E� BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS 4 CITY OF ITHACA j APRIL 4, 1977 ij �I EXECUTIVE SESSION ii APPEAL NO. 4-1- 77 : !; Moved by Mr. VanMarter: I move that the application be granted. IIFindings of Fact : 1. Testimony by the applicant ' s agent describes signs existing of a total I� dimension greater than is covered by this application, i 2 , The provision of the sign ordinance I dictates that over-size signage will �i terminate in the year 1979. f� 3, The present owner has to compete with established service stations oper- ating on corners immediately adjacent I� to this location. 4, The two existing service stations f� which are adjacent and operating, also are located in zones where service �I !� stations are not permitted. ISeconded by Ms. Maxwell : I second the motion, I� VOTE: 3 Yes - 1 No Variance denied. i I i I� N �I I I� i I e ;[ 21 _ I �Iq, Barbara Ruane, Do Certify that T took the minutes of the Board I ;of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaca, in the matters of Appeals Num- I ;fibers 1153 and 4- 1-77, on April 4 , 1977 at City Hall , City of Ithaca i 11New York; that I have transcribed same, and the foregoing is a true) ijcopy of the transcript of the minutes of the meeting and the I; I'Executive Session of the Beard of Zoning Appeals , City of Ithaca, i; Sion the above date, and the whole thereof to the best of my ability. II I i s ii Barbara Ruane Recording Secretary i I � II I�Sworn to before me this day of 1977. I I Notary Public 4 � FZTTHAN"? 13 011N'N i , Note_ itrk i I i 4 I I i� I �s !!i f� i